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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 2: that brings you the secret histories and little known, fascinating

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Speaker 2: facts and figures behind your favorite music, movies, TV shows

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Speaker 2: and more. Where your two swordfish, trombones of Scintille, your

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Speaker 2: rain dogs of random facts, your mule variations of magnified

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Speaker 2: views on stock, I'm Alex Heigel and I'm Jordan Roun

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Speaker 2: talk and today, as the nerdy among you may have

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Speaker 2: picked up on, we are talking about America's original steam powered,

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Speaker 2: part tree, part tombstone, Carnival Barker playing a piano made

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Speaker 2: out of mammoth fossels, an old era almost didn't get

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Speaker 2: to the end of that sense, that's right. We are

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Speaker 2: talking about Tom Waite and his epical nineteen ninety two

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Speaker 2: album Bone Machine, maybe a runner up right after Eraserhead

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Speaker 2: for like least commercially popular thing we've covered on here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's up there, like critics loved this album, and writers

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Speaker 2: love this album and nerds love this album. But researching it,

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, this has got the Grammy,

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Speaker 2: and then nothing else, like no significant sales to speak of.

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Speaker 2: The single went nowhere. I mean, but you know, I

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Speaker 2: am one of the biggest Tom Wait's nerds you will

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Speaker 2: ever meet in this or any other life, and I

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Speaker 2: love that about you. I was thinking about this a

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Speaker 2: lot prayer to tabing this episode. I am fairly certain

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Speaker 2: that I was introduced to him by MTV two. Do

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Speaker 2: you remember when MTV two first launched.

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Speaker 1: I don't, but I love how that was really your

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Speaker 1: entry point for so many bands because it was also

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Speaker 1: the box, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, so that's exactly what it was on the cable

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Speaker 2: slot in that the box used to have in Central Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: MTV I guess. I don't know if they took over

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Speaker 2: the box, which was request only, but they took over

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Speaker 2: the slot as MTV two, which, for a while, bless

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Speaker 2: its pointed Little Heart or Head or whatever that Jefferson

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Speaker 2: Airplane album is just showed music videos and there was

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Speaker 2: no like time restrictions on those music videos. So one

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Speaker 2: second you would see like the nineteen ninety three video

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Speaker 2: for Rage Against Machines Freedom, then you would see the

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Speaker 2: old Penny Lane promotional clip, then you would see Last

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Speaker 2: Night by the Strokes, and then you would see and

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Speaker 2: in my case, God's Away on Business by Tom Waits.

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Speaker 2: But the point was is that you had no idea

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Speaker 2: what era of stuff it was gonna throw at you.

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Speaker 2: And it was like at Christmas or something, and I

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Speaker 2: was channel surfing. One of my cousins came in and

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, Tom Waits, And I was like, is

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Speaker 2: that what this is? And they were like yeah, the

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Speaker 2: cookie Monster and God's Away in Business is like the

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Speaker 2: funniest possible song for that, because that's really one of

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Speaker 2: his ones where he like devolves into self parody and

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Speaker 2: is literally just.

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Speaker 3: Like oom boh oom bah God's oh wait, God's oh

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Speaker 3: way on business business uh.

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Speaker 2: And so I was like, Okay, that's hilarious. So I

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Speaker 2: do a range of weights. There's the uh you know,

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Speaker 2: Tom Waits giving interview, his voice just a little bit

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Speaker 2: more laid back and then devolves into Gordeworst. Have you

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Speaker 2: ever interviewed him? No, I'd be terrified. He hates giving interviews.

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Speaker 2: He does not want to be Tom Waits at this

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Speaker 2: point in his life at all. He wants to be

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Speaker 2: like Dad Waits Chile Mountain, Sonoma County. I actually heard

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Speaker 2: that he came to like this tiny DIY Experimental music

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Speaker 2: festival or space in Oakland, like just by himself, like

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Speaker 2: drove down from Sonoma because it was a night. It

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Speaker 2: was a tribute night to some obscure experimental instrument maker

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Speaker 2: and like random guy and I did door there, volunteered

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Speaker 2: tog door there occasionally, and like showed up like the

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Speaker 2: following week to run door and someone was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: Tom Waits was here last week, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: ah no, So that crushed me. Also, I'll never get

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Speaker 2: to see him live. He hates playing live. He probably

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Speaker 2: never will again, which is great it fits his whole personality,

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Speaker 2: but it does kill me at all times. Anyway, So

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Speaker 2: I saw I saw that video and my two like

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Speaker 2: cool music cousins were like, oh yeah, Tom Wade's like

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. And so I went to I

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Speaker 2: want to say LimeWire or Kazah, one of the green ones,

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Speaker 2: and I downloaded Going Out West from this very album.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't know any of them about bit rates,

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Speaker 2: but I knew that certain things sounded like dogshit when

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Speaker 2: you would get them from like a pirate site in

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Speaker 2: the early days. So I downloaded it and I was like, ooh,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of cool, like noir surf guitar intro. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like makes me feel like I'm a detective, but I

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Speaker 2: have a stun gun and I don't know if it's

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Speaker 2: the thirties or blade Runner. And then it just that

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Speaker 2: guitar riff kicks in is just like and then like

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Speaker 2: him singing like through a megaphone or something. I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 2: this sounds terrible. So I went to the CD warehouse

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Speaker 2: locally and bought a copy of Boone Machine and then

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Speaker 2: like brought it back home. I was like, Oh, this

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Speaker 2: is this is how it's supposed to sound. This is incredible.

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Speaker 2: And then I just right down the proverbial rabbit hole.

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Speaker 2: I just went back there like every week and was

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Speaker 2: just like, Hey, what's the next of these albums I

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Speaker 2: should get? And I was like, well, you gotta do

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Speaker 2: rain Dogs, you gotta do Swordfish Trombones, and then and

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Speaker 2: then filling in the gaps with some of the more

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Speaker 2: obscure stiff like but not obscure but like less canonized

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Speaker 2: stuff like you got to go back and you got

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Speaker 2: to go to like Billy Joel tom Waits, which like

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Speaker 2: I don't I think maybe not maybe, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think that's like an insult to both people but like,

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Speaker 2: you know, the log line on Tom Waits's this early

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Speaker 2: stuff is like I always just say he's like a

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Speaker 2: drunker billy Joel, Like it's all very uh because you know,

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Speaker 2: he was pounding around it with the Melo Mafia. He

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Speaker 2: was like buds with you know when the ron stat

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Speaker 2: that's yea nuts So and Ricky Lee Jones and like

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Speaker 2: the Eagles and all those guys they dated for a while, right, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: him and Ricky Lee. Yeah. Weirdly enough, in the Classic

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Speaker 2: League Annals of how rockstar Relationships dissolve, it was her

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Speaker 2: heroin habit that actually caused them to break up. Anyway, Yeah, man,

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Speaker 2: And I you know, I think about it. I thought

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Speaker 2: about it a lot in contextualizing it in like my life,

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Speaker 2: and I thought it was just I think it was

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Speaker 2: what drew him to me, What drew me to him

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Speaker 2: was that, like, you know, about two years prior, I

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Speaker 2: had gotten into like punk rock, right And and when

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Speaker 2: you're in getting into punk rock in anywhere in like

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Speaker 2: a small town, that means you like go to it

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Speaker 2: intimidating club and there's five people there wearing a black

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Speaker 2: flag shirt, five people there wearing the Dead Kennedy shirt,

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Speaker 2: five people wearing the misfit shirt and five people wearing

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Speaker 2: the ramone shirt, and you're like, okay, I have homework.

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Speaker 2: And also everyone is dressed the same way, and all

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Speaker 2: of these people are very intimidating, and then I get

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Speaker 2: screamed at it. So for someone like me who was

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Speaker 2: a little bit insecure about entering that world and also

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Speaker 2: a big nerd, when I got to Tom Waits, I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, like, you guys think like Rancid is transgressive,

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Speaker 2: or you think like the Dead Kennedy's are transgressive, Like

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Speaker 2: this man sounds like a broken radiator, you know, like

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Speaker 2: and then sadly manifested in a brief period where I

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Speaker 2: was wearing like tweed jackets and fingerless gloves and fedoras

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Speaker 2: around to like punk shows. But it was really like

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Speaker 2: such a shot in the arm of like self confidence

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Speaker 2: of being like, oh cool, Like you guys are like

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Speaker 2: Ramon's weird and like Ramon's punk, but like I'm into

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Speaker 2: Tom Waits and he's the weirdest man alive. And also

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Speaker 2: he sings like an actual monster and not in like

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Speaker 2: an adenoidal so col wine the way that like you know,

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Speaker 2: blinquin a two or green Day did or any of

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Speaker 2: that stuff. And I was like, so this man is

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Speaker 2: real as hell and like more punk rock than any

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Speaker 2: of you will ever be. And uh, yeah, I've just

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Speaker 2: been obsessed with him for my entire life. And he's like, oh, so,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot to be obsessed with. I

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Speaker 2: think I get into this topic later, but he is

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Speaker 2: such a I mean, the guy is like, if you

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Speaker 2: spend as much time with his body of work as

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Speaker 2: I do, and the truly obsessed among us do, like,

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Speaker 2: he's such a repository of the detritus of like America's

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Speaker 2: twenty of the twentieth century, you know, and you just

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Speaker 2: find out all these weird little old turns of phrase

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Speaker 2: and lyrical like references and tropes, and it's just an

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Speaker 2: endlessly interesting series of rabbit holes to just fall down into.

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Speaker 1: And that way, I always got the sense that it

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Speaker 1: was almost like the American Elvis Costello in terms of

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Speaker 1: just being, like you said, this repository of not only

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Speaker 1: a continuum of music, but just phrases culture.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the linguistics is probably the big part of it. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's funny. I mean, he's it's really interesting being as

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Speaker 2: obsessed with him as I am, because you do start

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Speaker 2: to notice some of his ticks, and you start to

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Speaker 2: notice some of his like that the box set Orphans

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Speaker 2: that came out at one point is so fascinating because

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Speaker 2: it is because of these songs were never officially released.

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Speaker 2: You really hear how his like studio approach of just

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Speaker 2: kind of being like, well, I have this song that

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Speaker 2: is me and piano singing, and then we're just gonna

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Speaker 2: try it seventeen different ways and see what happens. Like

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Speaker 2: there's an outtake on that one of this song called

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Speaker 2: never Let Go where I think they fully like miss

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Speaker 2: there's like an extra bar, like, so you hear the

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Speaker 2: drummer do this big like role and then it like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, there's just all these little mistakes and

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Speaker 2: stuff that you listen to, and he repeats lyrics and

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Speaker 2: has different repeat themes and so it's like, I think

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Speaker 2: I'm just more deeper into him than any other artist,

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Speaker 2: with the exception of maybe Miles Davis, and so like,

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Speaker 2: I just have such an inside, like a disturbingly deep

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Speaker 2: view of his like processes and little quirks and sessions.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, yeah, it's like me and the Beatle

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Speaker 2: it's like my Beatles. He's my Beatles. Oh and the

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Speaker 2: Beatles are your Beatles?

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I mean you know, it may not surprise

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Speaker 1: you to know that Tom Waits is not one of

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Speaker 1: my go tos, because you know, considering how much Brian

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Speaker 1: Wilson and Paul McCartney I listened to, I have to

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Speaker 1: admit that I do find his voice a little hard

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Speaker 1: to take at times.

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Speaker 2: Well which voice? Which voice? Okay, though, because you've got,

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Speaker 2: like I said, you've got early raspy voice, and then

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Speaker 2: you've got like the Prince falsetto, and then you've got

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Speaker 2: like there's a period I think from like Blue Valentine

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Speaker 2: to small change where he just is kind of doing

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Speaker 2: like Louis Armstrong or like like Blues shouting, and then

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Speaker 2: right around brain Dogs and Swordfish from Bones and that

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Speaker 2: trifecta into Bone Machine is where he just really goes

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Speaker 2: off the deep end. And that's anyway, what are his

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Speaker 2: vocal influences. I'm so curious. We'll get to that, Okay,

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Speaker 2: all right, Well get to that.

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Speaker 1: I mean I do love him almost more from a

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Speaker 1: literary standpoint. I sort of always thought of him as

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Speaker 1: like the musical Covid of like Bukowski or something.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's an interesting relationship. One of my earliest defeats

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Speaker 2: as a writer came when I was freelancing for no

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Speaker 2: money for Pop Matters and I pitched them like a

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Speaker 2: listicle of Tom Waite's songs. And this is one of

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Speaker 2: the things that's made me such a fact checking nerd.

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Speaker 2: There's this like oft repeated logline that Christmas Card from

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Speaker 2: a Hooker in Minneapolis, which by the way, is like

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Speaker 2: one of the best has There's a performance of this

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Speaker 2: song that he does on solo piano on some Australian

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Speaker 2: TV show or English TV show where he starts with

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Speaker 2: Silent Night, goes into Christmas Card from a Hooker Minneapolis,

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Speaker 2: interpolates little anthemyy Imperials, and then finishes it again at

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Speaker 2: silent Night. That is like one of the most incredible

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Speaker 2: things I've ever seen stagecraft and like theatrically musically wise,

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Speaker 2: that song, like on the Internet was a commonly repeated

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Speaker 2: fact that it was based on a short story from

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Speaker 2: a Charles Pokowski collection, and one of the first comments

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Speaker 2: I ever got as an Internet writer was that that

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Speaker 2: is incorrect. There is no such Charles bukowskis short story

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Speaker 2: and this is a commonly repeated lie on the internet,

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Speaker 2: and I do not know where it started. There's like

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Speaker 2: something to that effect. I think this short story collection

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Speaker 2: is like Rooming House Madrigals. And the big problem with

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Speaker 2: Bukowski is that he wrote seventeen hundred poems a night

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Speaker 2: when he was hammered between the hours of like four

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Speaker 2: thirty pm until he passed out. And so particularly when

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Speaker 2: you get into the Dolphin Press or Echo or whatever

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Speaker 2: the like the people who handled his latter day stuff,

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Speaker 2: there's dreams of new poems, but then there's also all

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Speaker 2: the like archival stuff, and I think Rooming House Magic

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Speaker 2: Goals is one of the earlier collections, and that is

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Speaker 2: where this poem that Tom Waites based the song on

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Speaker 2: supposedly appears, and it doesn't. And it was so it

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Speaker 2: spurred me forever to be a researcher and a nerd.

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Speaker 2: And that's my origin story for this podcast. And so

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Speaker 2: in a way I could take it all back to

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Speaker 2: Tom Waits and Bukowski. Yeah, I mean, Beukosko is a

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Speaker 2: big influence on him, but I think he also comes

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Speaker 2: from a very pre Bukowski sentiment, which is just like

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Speaker 2: the beats. I mean, it's important to know that he

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Speaker 2: grew up in San Diego and so pretty much everything

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Speaker 2: he does is filtered through like native Californian lens, you know,

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Speaker 2: So like the beats in San Francisco were like a

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Speaker 2: huge thing for him, he idolized. You know, there's a

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Speaker 2: song on one of his I think it might be

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Speaker 2: a foreign affair that it's just called I'm going to

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Speaker 2: California to meet up with Jack and Neil, which is

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Speaker 2: like the most nakedly beat fetishizing garbage I could ever

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Speaker 2: think of. Do you want to tell the folks that

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Speaker 2: Jack and Nail are? Do I have to his education

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Speaker 2: really fallen that far in this country? I guess I do.

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Speaker 2: Why I ask that question? Jack Carrorac and Neil Cassidy

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Speaker 2: the protagonists and writers of On the Road. So yeah, that,

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Speaker 2: like I, he was also really into this guy named

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Speaker 2: Ken Nordaan whose whole thing was a word jazz. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think we've covered him before. Ken Nordan was if

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Speaker 2: Jack Carrek's whole thing was trying to write like he

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Speaker 2: conceived of jazz musicians playing, Ken Nordon was kind of

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Speaker 2: trying to reverse engineer it. And do like spoken word poetry,

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Speaker 2: like improvising live to jazz music. And so there's all

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Speaker 2: these Ken Nordin albums and he does. There's an appearance

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Speaker 2: of him on the on the Steve Allen Tonight's show

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Speaker 2: where Steve Allen's playing piano, and I talk about this later,

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Speaker 2: Like Tom Waits and Bob Dylan are only like seven

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Speaker 2: or eight years apart. And so if you look at

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Speaker 2: the two of them and their sort of lyrical preoccupations

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Speaker 2: and a lot of the places that they overlap, the

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Speaker 2: biggest difference is that Tom Waits is like is from California.

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Speaker 2: That's really how how I've pinned it down. So he

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Speaker 2: starts from this era of like beat worship and like

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Speaker 2: Hogy Carmichael, and he supposed he has this joke about

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Speaker 2: only learning the black keys on the piano because they

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Speaker 2: were the only ones that worked on like a piano

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Speaker 2: that he had at home, which is such a bit

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Speaker 2: of like Tom Waits myth making. So yeah, a lot

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Speaker 2: of his early stuff is coming from this whole you know,

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Speaker 2: ten Panelley forties fifties beat nick preoccupation. I don't know

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Speaker 2: where to stop. You're going to have to give me

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Speaker 2: some pauses because I will just continue going.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, I know that this man is very steeped

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Speaker 1: in lore, and what little of it I know, I

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Speaker 1: know through you, So I fully expect that I'm going

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Speaker 1: to learn a lot of this episode I'm really looking

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Speaker 1: forward to because I know how much you love him well.

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Speaker 2: From the storage room and or shed on a chicken

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Speaker 2: ranch that Bone Machine is recorded in because some of

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Speaker 2: the best off kilter musical instructions Weights provided to his

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Speaker 2: studio musicians, to the invented instruments he played on it,

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Speaker 2: to the abysmal chart performance of this album which did

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Speaker 2: win him a Grammy. Here's everything you didn't know about

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Speaker 2: Tom Waits's Bone Machine. Tom Waitson had a hell of

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Speaker 2: a nineteen eighties. At the top of the decade, he

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Speaker 2: was broke and I believe he had just been kicked

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Speaker 2: off of asylum. Why for poor sales or drugs or well,

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Speaker 2: it's quite funny, yeah, I mean he had one of

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Speaker 2: these artist trajectories that will never happen again, just full

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Speaker 2: on will never happen again. He made a career initially

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Speaker 2: as like I said, part of in the Circle of

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Speaker 2: This like Mellow Mafia in La you know, he was

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Speaker 2: i think working he was living in the Tropicana Hotel

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Speaker 2: and working at like at the Troubadour, and that's how

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Speaker 2: he met Linda Ronstat Ricky Lee Jones the Eagles, who

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Speaker 2: later covered one of his songs. And so he cuts

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Speaker 2: his early albums Closing Time, Heart of Saturday Night, and

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Speaker 2: there's a bunch of demos out from this time period

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Speaker 2: that are all pretty like it's basically singer songwriter stuff.

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Speaker 2: And he's got a producer who's a jazz guy named

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Speaker 2: bones How. He's doing all of these like string laden

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Speaker 2: kind of jazzy arrangements, and that's kind of what they're

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Speaker 2: they're pairing him with. I mean, you get also get

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Speaker 2: Nighthawks the Diner, which is a great faux live album

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Speaker 2: where they just like trucked a bunch of people and

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Speaker 2: a stripper into a like a big studio live room

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Speaker 2: and just had him do his like live set.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned bones How. I mean Bones How was a

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Speaker 1: big deal in like sixties pop. He did stuff with

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Speaker 1: like The Association and the Turtles and like the Fifth Dimension.

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Speaker 2: Like that's a.

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Speaker 1: Really I mean, he's like like one of the architects

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Speaker 1: of what's called Sunshine Pop, which is like, yeah, sixties,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a weird pairing with Tom Waits.

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Speaker 2: Well exactly, And I think that's what's so interesting. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's this there's a one of the early compilations I

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Speaker 2: got was the Early Years, and it's a lot of

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Speaker 2: him demoing on just piano and guitar. And you know,

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Speaker 2: his early songs like Old fifty five was covered by

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Speaker 2: the Eagles, Martha is a really beautiful song covered by

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Speaker 2: Tim Buckley. So like, if you think about like Cookie

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Speaker 2: Monster Tom Waits writing songs that were covered by like

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Speaker 2: Tim Buckley and the Eagles, that's very weird. But it

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Speaker 2: was just because of this part of la that he inhabited,

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Speaker 2: and he had a managined named her Cohen, who basically

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Speaker 2: mismanaged him into the toilet. I mean, he put Tom Waits,

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Speaker 2: like doing this piano ballad stuff on a tour with

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Speaker 2: Frank Zappa, and it was hell because he was Zappa's manager,

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Speaker 2: so he paired his two clients together. Didn't make any sense.

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Speaker 2: But he sort of starts leaning towards like Blue Valentine

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Speaker 2: and Heart Attack and Vine and Small Change of these

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Speaker 2: albums where he starts toying with his voice a little

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Speaker 2: bit more and getting into a little bit more CD

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Speaker 2: noir rather than like California kind of balladerie. And so

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Speaker 2: basically at the top of the eighties though he's been

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Speaker 2: kicked off of Asylum and doesn't have any money because

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Speaker 2: of herb Cohen. So Electra and Asylum had been absorbed

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Speaker 2: by Warners and Asylum was originally founded by David Geffham

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Speaker 2: with the idea of being the only like artist friendly

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Speaker 2: major right, That's why he called it asylum, And so

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Speaker 2: I always thought it was short for lunatic asylum. Maybe

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Speaker 2: it was like the idea of like the inmates riding asylum,

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Speaker 2: but like you know, so so Warner Brothers and Warner

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Speaker 2: Electra Asylum now had like Grateful Dead, Van Morrison, Eagles,

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Speaker 2: Queen Carly Simon, pre Merger, Electra and Asylum had like

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Speaker 2: Judy Collins and Jackson Brown. And so Tom Waits is

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Speaker 2: in there too, and and his A and R guide

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Speaker 2: Joe Smith actually told Barney Hoskins at one point, right, biographer,

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Speaker 2: Yeah for the Low side of the Road, which is

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Speaker 2: a great Tom Waits bio. I was trying to keep

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Speaker 2: Freddie Mercury from falling apart. I was trying to get

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Speaker 2: Don Henley and Glenn Fry into a studio together, or

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Speaker 2: I was trying to sign new acts like the Cars.

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Speaker 2: My promotion and marketing staff would roll their eyes when

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Speaker 2: I announced we had a new Tom Waits record. I'm

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Speaker 2: playing Queen and Jackson Brown and we have a meeting

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Speaker 2: and I play weights, and that's when everyone goes to

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Speaker 2: the bathroom. Yeah. And it was interesting because like Tom

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Speaker 2: was like a COGNISEETI kind of pick, but he didn't

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Speaker 2: have any real mainstream audience at that point. And Smith says, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, Joni Mitchell can say I want to go

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Speaker 2: record a jazz album with Charles Mingus, and that's because

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Speaker 2: it was Joni Mitchell ten years into being Joni Mitchell.

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Speaker 2: Tom Ways didn't have any of that. So at the eighties,

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Speaker 2: at top of the eighties, he is poor and at

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Speaker 2: the proverbial transitional phrase, and you could say that he

381
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Speaker 2: is at crossroads. I indeed later on, I know, well,

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Speaker 2: you've been jumping around so much. I don't know where

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Speaker 2: it's oh yeah, but this is fifties word jazz baby,

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Speaker 2: you know, bebop, rich, fireworks, bang boom, whimper, not a bang.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't really like beat poetry. I

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Speaker 2: think it's dumb. They need an editor. Uh, okay, enough

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Speaker 2: grammar punctuation, there's no m dashes. The biggest change in

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Speaker 2: Tom Waye's life at this point comes via his slow

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Speaker 2: sort of entrance into Hollywood. He'd been asked by Francis

390
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Speaker 2: Ford Coppola to write the music for One from the Heart,

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Speaker 2: which is not a film that I bet you can

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Speaker 2: tell me anything about. Yeah, it's up there in sort

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Speaker 2: of a Coppola's like semi fallow period of the eighties

394
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Speaker 2: when he did this. He did Rumblefish, he did like

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Speaker 2: Outsiders and stuff like.

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Speaker 1: That, all building up to Jack starring Robin Williams.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is all building up to bram Stoker's Dracula

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Speaker 2: in two and which I will then get into. There's

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Speaker 2: a long sidebar on Bramstoker's Dracula, all right. Anyway, So

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Speaker 2: on One for the Heart actually waits picks up a

401
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Speaker 2: nomination for Original Music Score, which he did with Crystal Gail.

402
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Speaker 2: And so it's on that at American Zoatro Pictures, which

403
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Speaker 2: is Copola's production company, that he meets Kathleen Brennan. Kathleen

404
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 2: is a script editor for Zoatrope, and Waits had been

405
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Speaker 2: given the old time composer treatment of getting an office

406
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Speaker 2: on the lot, like on the at the offices where

407
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Speaker 2: he was writing these songs. And he meets Kathleen Brennan there,

408
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Speaker 2: and he is the other thing. This is the other

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Speaker 2: thing about Tom Waite's. Nearly anything Waits as quoted as

410
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Speaker 2: saying is either charitably a yarn, good old fashioned American

411
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Speaker 2: West male buucherie, or a straight up lie. So you

412
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 2: do have to take certain things of what he's saying

413
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Speaker 2: with certain incredible amounts of salt. But he basically meets

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Speaker 2: Kathleen Brennan, and not only does she open his eyes

415
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Speaker 2: to all of this other music. At what he told

416
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Speaker 2: the Guardian once, I didn't just marry a beautiful woman.

417
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Speaker 2: I married a record collection that's amazing. But she she

418
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Speaker 2: also sets him on his path like out of the gutter.

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Speaker 2: I think I did find a excited source. I think

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Speaker 2: it's in the Hoskins book that he went into AA

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two. But she was really like, you

422
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Speaker 2: got to quit this drink and if you want to

423
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Speaker 2: be with me two ninety two but she like put

424
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Speaker 2: the clamps on it, because there's a hilarious story at

425
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Speaker 2: one point in the nineties about him hanging out with

426
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: the Replacements. I think this might have been for police

427
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 2: to meet me or maybe Tim where he was like

428
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 2: in the building with them, and he had admitted to

429
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 2: liking them, like I think he had seen them live

430
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 2: at some point and was like, yeah, I like those kids,

431
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: the Replacements. And so he just shows up at the

432
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 2: studio with Kathleen and it's very like, kind of buttoned

433
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: down and respectful, like, hey, you know, I like what

434
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 2: you kids are doing, Like it's real good rock and roll,

435
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: you know, back to basics. And then he's like, okay,

436
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 2: honeywell I think I'm gonna you know, I think I'm

437
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 2: gonna hang out with the Replacements for a little while

438
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 2: and see what they can get up to in the studio.

439
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 2: And and so Kathleen's like, all right, take a cab home,

440
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 2: I'll see you. I'll see you boys later. And I

441
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: think it's Paul Westerberg, or it's either Paul Westerberg or

442
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 2: the bassist Tom Tommy Stinson, who says like and it

443
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: was like a he turned into a were wolf, like

444
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 2: he he like grabbed one of their bottles of Jack

445
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 2: Daniels and started slugging it. There's all this hilarire, drunken

446
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: outtakes of like them just doing like basic backing while

447
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 2: Tom Waits plays like a B three organ and is

448
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: like doing all these like preacher like tent revival riffs.

449
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: Like you have to let him use you just anyway.

450
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 2: But so she's like she puts a curba his drinking.

451
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: She exposes him to all this kind of stuff, everything

452
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: from you know, Puccini to Captain Beefheart, Alan Lomack's field

453
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 2: recordings and Harry Parch And what this does is kind

454
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 2: of give him all of these context clues to fill

455
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 2: in the gaps into everything that he says he's like

456
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 2: been into before, from like you know, Hogy Carmichael and

457
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 2: Tin Panale stuff backwards into like real gut bucket blues

458
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: and like real strange stuff. All of this is to

459
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: say that way, it's essentially reverse engineered his soft jazz metal,

460
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: mafia cool boho beat nick sound into something that more

461
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 2: resembled and as madic Werewolf driving a slowly dying model

462
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: t forward through a junkyard filled with skeletons improvising a

463
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 2: score out of antique instruments and it rules. And so

464
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: the first one that sets this path out is Swordfish Trombones,

465
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 2: and that that's followed by rain Dogs and Frank's Wild Years,

466
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 2: and that's kind of a loose trilogy that cements like

467
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 2: the new Tom Waits sound. And also, you know, he

468
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: keeps acting, which is really quite interesting. He has like

469
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 2: roles in three Copola films in nineteen eighty three alone,

470
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 2: and he like really hit it off with Coppola, which

471
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: is actually funny. And there's he's like talked about like

472
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: going over to spaghetti dinners like at the at the

473
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 2: Coppola's while he was doing all these movies with them

474
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 2: and like listening to Puccini and all of this stuff.

475
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 2: So they get married Waits and Kathleen, and they have

476
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: their first child, a daughter, and they moved to New York.

477
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 2: Waits had made a stab at living in New York before.

478
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 2: He didn't exactly like it. Like I mentioned, he's a

479
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: California boy through and through, but he makes a number

480
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: of important connections and collaborations in New York. He meets

481
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 2: Jim Jarmish, who later casts Waits in down By Law.

482
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 2: He meets Robert Wilson, who is a theater guy who

483
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 2: had just done Einstein on the Beach with Philip Glass.

484
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 2: And he meets John Lourie, who at the time was

485
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 2: an also Jarmish pal who was leading the Lounge Lizards,

486
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: And that is where he meets Mark Ribo. I still

487
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: don't know how to pronounce that guy's name, Ribot Rebot.

488
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever heard it. I've seen him

489
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: live twice, I don't think I've ever heard it pronounced anyway.

490
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 2: He's this downtown kind of New York eighties jazz loft

491
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: seen guitarist who is all over rain dogs and a

492
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: lot of wait stuff, and it's awesome. He plays guitar

493
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: like it's a slowly dying stun gun that he doesn't

494
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 2: have an instruction manual for. Your analogies for this are incredible.

495
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: You've hadtice, I practice a lot of them. You've had

496
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 2: twenty five years. Yeah, I've had my whole life to

497
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 2: prepare for this.

498
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, Well, during his time in New York,

499
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: Tom Waits met up with somebody that I've actually heard of,

500
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: little British guitarist songwriter, an occasional singer named Keith Richards.

501
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: This is I love this story so much. I'm so

502
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 2: glad you included this. Waits recall The Island Records asked.

503
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: Them for a list of who we'd like to work

504
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: with on the album rain Dogs, and he was a

505
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: huge fan of the Stones, as you put it, dirt

506
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: Bag Magnum Opus Exile on Main Street, which is probably

507
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: the most Keith centric Stones album ever, And so Waits

508
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: throughout Keith's name, and the label said, great, we'll call him,

509
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: to which an absolutely aghast Waits responded, Jesus, please don't

510
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 1: do that. I was just kidding around, and supposedly a

511
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,719
Speaker 1: few weeks later, this is something the only bit of

512
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: Tom Waits Laura I've heard of. Tom gets a letter

513
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: from Keith in the mail that reads, the weight is over,

514
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: Let's dance.

515
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that so much. He has

516
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: so many great lines about about Keith Ridchards. He's like

517
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: he comes into the studio with his head at ten

518
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: and his next it too. I don't know, I don't

519
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: know how he does it. He's like he just comes

520
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 2: in and hits the guitar and everything falls into place

521
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: around that he says like he's someone who music likes

522
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 2: to be around, which is like one of the most

523
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: poetic phrases I've ever heard about someone talking about a collaborator. Wow,

524
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 2: that's great.

525
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: Waits also apparently contributed to The Stones nineteen eighties, not

526
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: a high point for the band Dirty Work.

527
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: I did not know that before researching this, Oh, rote

528
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: Tom Waits fanas, I did not know he's supposedly somewhere

529
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: on Dirty Work of all places.

530
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, not the best Stones album, But Waits and Richards

531
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: hit it off so well that Richard's actually thanked wait

532
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: for quote spiritual encouragement on his own solo debut, Talk

533
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: is Cheap. Years later, at NPR's Fresh Air, Waits talked

534
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: about co writing with Richard's own rain Dogs. We wrote

535
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: songs together for a while and that was fun. But

536
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,959
Speaker 1: Keith doesn't really remember anything or write anything down. So

537
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: you play for an hour and he would yell across

538
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: the room scribe, and I looked around scribe, who's the scribe,

539
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: and he'd say it again, now pointing at me. I

540
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: was supposed to have written everything down that we said

541
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: and dreamt of and played. And I realized we needed

542
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: an adult in the room, which is dangerously close to

543
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: the John Mulaney Mick Jagger guesting on SNL and just

544
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: saying diet coke and then a diet.

545
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: Coke appearing in his hands from one of the many assistants.

546
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 2: You're dealing with people who have had their entire life.

547
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: There have been millionaires since they were like nineteen. What

548
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: do you want? Yeah? Yeah? Is he nice? No? In

549
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: my world, you say, may I please have a diet coke? Please?

550
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 2: And maybe you will get one? Yeah. Waited also at

551
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: this point become enamored of the work of the adult

552
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: blacked Les. That makes sense, Yeah, all of which goes

553
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: into rain Dogs. And rain Dogs is a bit of

554
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 2: a bigger hit than Swordfish. Crombones got Record of the

555
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 2: Year from NME and Songwriter of the Year from Rolling Stone,

556
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 2: and then so from rain Dogs. He just sort of

557
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: explodes in all directions. And I think it's really interesting

558
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: considering how much his output has slowed in latter years,

559
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: because he's really working at a very fevered pace at

560
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 2: this point in the eighties, and much of it, I mean,

561
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. He doesn't really talk about his personal

562
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: life or his marriage that much beyond its impact on

563
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: his artistic thing, but I feel like she was probably

564
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 2: making more money than he was when they met, and

565
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: he was like, Okay, I've got to leverage these different connections,

566
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: and I've got to leverage all this stuff and do

567
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: a bunch right away. All right, Well, I have two questions.

568
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: One, I think in your piece that you sent me earlier,

569
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: there was a great description of where the title rain

570
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: Dogs came from. And I also I don't believe you

571
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: included this in that, But I also want to know

572
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: where does Swordfish Trombones come from?

573
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: Right? So, rain dogs is refers to the phenomenon of

574
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: dogs going out to pee after it rains and all

575
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: their scent marks have been washed away, so that they're

576
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 2: all confused, and they.

577
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: Go up and look to you as if asking you

578
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: can you please take me home?

579
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: I thought that was very sweet. Swordfish Trombones, I want

580
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: to say, just off the top of my dome, I

581
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 2: think it might be a Captain beef Heart thing, because

582
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: that was one of the biggest people that Kathleen had

583
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: introduced him to it. And one of Beefheart's stupid trademarks

584
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: is like putting animal things with like non animal things

585
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: like trout mask replica, trout Mask replica. What's the fun.

586
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: There's like a bit of fasta the Masquatta snake faster

587
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: than bulbous. Uh. Just yeah, anyway, that's like some of

588
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: his lyrical concerns. But let me check that out actually

589
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: real quick. How do you feel about Captain bee Fart.

590
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: I get a sense that it's it's similar to Frank's

591
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: app but nothing wrong with a little beef art.

592
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: But a long a lot of beef far. I like

593
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: beef Heart. I will admit that I had to do

594
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: the classic like listen to this like five times and

595
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: then finally like get it. But that record is really wild.

596
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: I don't see a concrete thing at least on wiki

597
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: about the Swordfish Turnbones name. But I mean, have you

598
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: heard about how they made that record? Pieces He like

599
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: tortured that band. He put them all in a remote mansion.

600
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 2: They only had his car, and he stole all their

601
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: mail and their money and like rationed food out to

602
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: them and was just generally like a horrible tyrant. And

603
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 2: they rehearsed at all hours, and he put them through

604
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 2: all of his whimsical beef Heart bullshit. Like there's great

605
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: bits of like studio outtake chatter where he's like forcing

606
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: them to do these like dialogues like fast and bulbous,

607
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: the mascout of Snake, and you see the guy who's

608
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: supposed to be reading this dialogue just go oh Jesus Christ.

609
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: But you know that records bonkers and you do hear

610
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: like it's like looking at a you know, it is

611
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: like looking at a Kandinsky or a Pollock or something

612
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: where like the longer you look at it and you

613
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: start to see like different micro structures in it. And

614
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: because it was so tightly rehearsed, they did the backing

615
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: tracks for that whole album, which sounds for the uninitiated

616
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: like random. It sounds like you just threw a bunch

617
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: of random backing tapes into a big machine that threads

618
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: them all onto a tape machine and spits out a

619
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: master mix, and then Captain Beefheart is singing over it.

620
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: But they were so locked in and so well rehearsed

621
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,479
Speaker 2: making that that when Zeppa was producing and trying to

622
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: sort through different takes to find stuff for beef Heart

623
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 2: to sing the vocal lines over, he couldn't tell the

624
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 2: takes apart. So it's just like absolute emotionally abused, lockstep

625
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: rehearsed like watch tight version of chaos that just sounds

626
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: like nothing else. But then there's stuff like too much time,

627
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: like this beef Heart's song, too much Time, it sounds

628
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: like a motown song. And anyway, so that's my take

629
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: on beef Art. Where was I going with this?

630
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: I just want to know the origins of the name

631
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: Raine Dogs and sort of fish dn Bones.

632
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and now I have them. I rule, I rule.

633
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 2: I don't think we can mention that. I know. I

634
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: love that you picked what that was from. Yeah. So

635
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: the next thing that he does is kind of create

636
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: a musical, a narrative arc out of the songs on Swordfish,

637
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 2: Trombones and Rain Dogs, and he presents it as a

638
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 2: musical with Chicago's famed Steppenwolf Theater, home of Gary Sonise

639
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: and John Malkovich. And then he releases that as an

640
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: album in nineteen eighty seven, still acting in eighty six

641
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: and eighty seven, and then he moves back to la

642
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 2: with Brennan and their kids. And it's really important to

643
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: note at this point that like ninety percent of what

644
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: he does is then credited to Brennan Waits she's like

645
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 2: his producer. She writes lyrics with him. They like source

646
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: material together. And then in nineteen eighty nine, Waits begins

647
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: his collaboration with the aforementioned Robert Wilson, who had done

648
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: Einstein on the Beach with Philip Glass, as I mentioned,

649
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: which the stage direction for that is already like ridiculous.

650
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 2: Look that up if you haven't. But the other thing

651
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 2: you need to know about Robin Wilson Robert Wilson is

652
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: that he once directed a ballet for iron lung patients,

653
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 2: which was the enormous this manual breathing machine that they

654
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: used to insert polio victims into when they couldn't manually

655
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 2: breathe on their own. And so his way of staging

656
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: a ballet for them was to have them he put

657
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: streamers in their mouths that they would blow and it

658
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: would move, while the janitor in their hospital ward danced

659
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: around dress like Miss America anyway.

660
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: The streamers like the party, like those things that yeah.

661
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 2: Yeah anyway. So Robert, So these two, this charming pair,

662
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 2: joined up with William S.

663
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: Burrows of all people before or after he killed someone after.

664
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: In Hamburg or The Black Writer, which is a musical

665
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 2: in stage production that premieres in nineteen ninety. Meanwhile, Waits

666
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 2: is in The Two Jakes, the late era Chinatown sequel

667
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 2: starring Jack Nicholson and Meryl Streep, Terry Gilliams, The Fisher King,

668
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: Steve Rash's Queen's Logic, and Hector Ankles at Play in

669
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: the Fields of the Lord. Those last three were all

670
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety. And then he wraps up this Hollywood

671
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 2: run with his role as Renfield in Francis Ford Coppola's

672
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 2: bram Stoker's Dracula in nineteen ninety two, which is probably

673
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: where he got the most like that sold him as

674
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 2: like a character actor. He's so great in it. He's

675
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 2: wearing like steampunk goggles and like long Union jack like

676
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 2: a union suit like underwear, and eating bugs and he

677
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 2: has all these like weird steampunk contraptions on his hands.

678
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: It's awesome. And then he also does an instrumental soundtrack

679
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 2: for a Jim Jarmish fund called Night on Earth. And

680
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: so all of this is to say that when Tom

681
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: Waites began work on Bone Machine, he was you do

682
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 2: the honors, no you at He was at a crossroads.

683
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: So when he sets out on Bone Machine, one of

684
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: his inspirations is industrial music. Weirdly enough, and here's not

685
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: one though that I think is very funny. He's never

686
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 2: I don't think, acknowledged the fact that Pixies coined the

687
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 2: phrase bone machine five years earlier on Surfa Rosa, which

688
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: the opening track of that record is your Bones Got

689
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: a little MESSH got a bone machine? Ah, I got

690
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 2: a boom she. I mean, I don't know how much

691
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: he would actually heard them. That is the record that

692
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 2: they blew up on, but the song is I thought

693
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: it was too little.

694
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 3: No.

695
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 2: Gigantic was their first big hit, and that's what that's

696
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: what ironically set the stage of that like destroyed the

697
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: band because Frank Black was a very unstable uh weenie

698
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 2: and he was like so horrifically threatened by the fact

699
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 2: that their big single had been written by Kim Deal

700
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 2: that it like essentially doomed the band from the start.

701
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: There's there's a point, and I don't remember where I

702
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 2: saw this, but like they were like backstage at some event.

703
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: They were getting a festival, and they were getting ready

704
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 2: to go on and perform Gigantic and Iggy Pop comes

705
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 2: up and he's like, oh, Frank Black you're like you're

706
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 2: in the Pixies, you know. Oh I love that song. Gigantic,

707
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 2: great song man and like mag Fike dies just a

708
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 2: little inside. So anyway, I don't know how much he

709
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 2: actually knew about them.

710
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: But so it was Sinatra saying that something is a

711
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: spavent line of no Cartney song.

712
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: It's like, yes, yeah, but they got to the phrase

713
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 2: before him. But anyway, I feel like Tom Waits would

714
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: have arrived at that on the own anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

715
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 2: And this is what goes. The title of the record

716
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: is its best evocation of what you would put on

717
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 2: douchebag hat, referred to as a sort of fin de sicle, melancholy,

718
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: and possibly Waits his own mortality as evidenced by his

719
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: his his burgeoning careers, head of a household, bread winner,

720
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 2: et cetera, late American male masculinity crisis, and so forth

721
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: epidemic of male loneliness in cell. Al Right, proud boys,

722
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 2: I'm doing more word jazz here. We're free associating. I'm

723
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: like Jack Herrak in this way. I'm a modern day

724
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: beat poet. If I didn't have this podcast, I don't

725
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: know what I'd be. One of those things I'd just

726
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 2: be wondering around talking to myself in the streets, which

727
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 2: I still do actually, So it's why my voice doesn't

728
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: get that sore until we're into three hours of the Titanic. Anyway,

729
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: there's a really hilarious press kit that he put together

730
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: for this album that has like a lot of factual

731
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 2: information with a lot of like Tom Waite's bullshit, but

732
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: it's like many pages long, and so in the press kit,

733
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: he says most of the principles for most machines developed

734
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: in the machine age, where principles that were found in

735
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 2: the human body. We're all like bode machines. I guess

736
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 2: we break down eventually and were replaced by other models,

737
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: newer models, younger models. See all of those things that

738
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: I said before, Is that true? I mean, yeah, yeah,

739
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: I guess you're thinking about. I think about like Vitruvian

740
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 2: man and all those learn and she like like gears

741
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: and like shoulders and the you know, your a cl

742
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 2: and your shoulder harness and maybe your hamstrings. I want

743
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 2: to say, all right, I don't know much about the

744
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 2: human body. I know where to point to things and

745
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: say that they hurt, points to heart, points to head,

746
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: points to tummy and back anyway. Actually, my back's okay,

747
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: it's okay, you know that's everybody. Everybody listening right now.

748
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: Take a stretch break, everybody right now, everybody right now.

749
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, shoulders back and up. You know, I go back

750
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: to Alexander techniques interestingly every now and again, which I

751
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: did not invent, but really good stuff about like like

752
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: you know, like you know, we fetishized like Ramrod straight posture,

753
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: but the actual like your spine is kind of actually

754
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: curved because you know, we're not that are descended from

755
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 2: apes evolutionarily speaking, and like so when you sit and

756
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 2: force your back like rigidly straight, it actually pushes you

757
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 2: off your sit bones because they're curved. So like the

758
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 2: ideal posture is actually like not Ramrod straight, like shoulders back,

759
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 2: because that's going to like put all this tension into

760
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 2: your intercostal muscles between your ribs, but it's actually like

761
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: slightly shoulders forward, like a little bit back round it.

762
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: If you look at like the natural curvature of the spine,

763
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 2: it's it's a little bit rounded. My spine spent from

764
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 2: carrying your ass up and down the court forty five

765
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: minutes a night.

766
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: I do something called the Alexander Heigel technique, where I

767
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: scream into my pillow for about twenty minutes every morning

768
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: and twenty minutes in the evening.

769
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 2: Mostly through editing. I find it centers me as you

770
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 2: meditate on that. We'll be right back with more too

771
00:41:52,440 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 2: much information after these messages. Wow, okay, so discounting the

772
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: soundtrack to Night on Earth, which is instrumental, and Black Rider,

773
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 2: which has written before but released after Bone Machine. Bone

774
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 2: Machine was Wade's first album of original music since nineteen

775
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: eighty seven, five years. At the time, it may have

776
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: also seemed like his last half of the lyrics directly

777
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: referenced the end of the world, and it is also

778
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: concerned with many smaller acts of death and dying, such

779
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 2: as infidelity, moral compromise, maiming. He told the French magazine

780
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 2: Telerama in nineteen ninety two. My mom heard the title

781
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: and hated the title. She said it sounds so degrading,

782
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: sounds like something hellish or devilish. She also said there's

783
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: nothing the devil hates more than a singing Christian, which

784
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: is quite funny and maybe true Christian music sucks though

785
00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: discuss anyway, Although Funnily enough, the Blind Boys of Alabama

786
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 2: I covered Jesus going to be Here, which is like, oh,

787
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: that makes sense, and like took it completely straightforwardly, as

788
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: opposed to the sort of hilarious like weights in postmodern

789
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 2: twists on it. I don't know. I think that's funny.

790
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 2: It's like when Rod Stewart covered Downtown Train and made

791
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 2: it super because he doesn't understand. He knows good songs

792
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 2: but occasionally has trouble understanding that he doesn't have to

793
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 2: sing them. Ah, I love us. What a clown, God's

794
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 2: perfect buffoon. Also in that interview, he made this point

795
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: we're all going to the same place. Some of us

796
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 2: are taking different routes, and some of us are leaving

797
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: earlier and arriving later, but we're all going to the

798
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 2: same place. Seems like a legitimate topic to uncover once

799
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 2: you get to a certain point. That don't mean it

800
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: to be morbid. I'm not morbid. I think if you

801
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 2: talk about it then it disarms, It makes it seem

802
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: a little more easier to handle. Someday we're all going

803
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 2: to be in a little box. It's going to be

804
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 2: real dark, and they put the lid on, put you

805
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: six feet down and that's where we'll spend the rest

806
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 2: of what there is of time.

807
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: Is that in the press kit or an interview for

808
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: French magazine? Oh that's for Oh okay, either way, I

809
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: guess that feels appropriately French.

810
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: Though that feels very very soft. So we touched on

811
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 2: this earlier.

812
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 1: But as you mentioned, Captain Beefhart is a common comparison

813
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: for Tom Waits's voice, but the relative approaches to making

814
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: records are fascinating to compare as well, because they're very different.

815
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: Captain Beefeart's landmark tout Mask Replica album is a bonker's

816
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: sounding chaotic record that was so so rigorously rehearsed within

817
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: an inch of its life to sound that way, and

818
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: apparently they rehearsed it so so completely and thoroughly that

819
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: it was recorded in just six hours, with all of

820
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: the backing tracks virtually indistinguishable from one another because they

821
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: just had it down. Tom Waits, meanwhile, was still pursuing

822
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: a studio approach like you mentioned Miles Davis or Bryant Eno.

823
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 2: You had sketches for songs, but.

824
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 1: Assembled player in the studio and put them into odd

825
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 1: configurations with deliberately obtuse confusing directions, like any favorites.

826
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: Well, there's play it like a midgets bar mitzvah was

827
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: one that I've seen pretty famously. Play it like your

828
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: hair's on fire is another. Okay, that one.

829
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: I sort of understand that intensity. Play it like a

830
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: midget's bar mitzvah. I'd like you to unpack that, or

831
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: help me unpack that well, like klezmer a little bit, or.

832
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 2: Like you know, I know. I think it's like I

833
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 2: would have had if he had said a Jewish midget's wedding.

834
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 2: I would have leapt handily to the image, would have

835
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: sprung fully formed from my mind, like like Athena from

836
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: a Jewish Zeus's forehead. I would have had that explanation ready.

837
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 2: But he said bar mitzvah. So I don't know. Maybe

838
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, maybe Jewish klezmer, but small but

839
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 2: small men, small klesmer, small diet diet klezmer. Now we're

840
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: getting somewhere.

841
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: Half a boat machine's grim end of day sound is

842
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: effect due to the studio. But when we say studio,

843
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: it's not quite a studio. Tom Waits, by this point

844
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 1: had moved his family out to Sonoma, County, well outside

845
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: of San Francisco, and he'd recorded the soundtrack to Night

846
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: on Earth at Prairie Sun's studios in the small town

847
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: of Ronert Park in.

848
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 2: Tati Kotati, California. Do you know Katati? I know Ronert

849
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: Park because the that's where AFI is from before they

850
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 2: I think and punk band of Note. I don't even

851
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: know they're still together order if they're still considered punk,

852
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 2: but Ceremony the band that blamed themselves after a Joy

853
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 2: Division song there from Ronert Park. It might be Ronert

854
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 2: I don't know. People out here talked them spiders. Spiders.

855
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: Prairie Sun Studio co owner Mark Muka Rednick founded the

856
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: studio near Sonoma State University in the late seventies before

857
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: relocating it to a twelve acre chicken ranch in nineteen

858
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: eighty one.

859
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: As you do.

860
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: It's a quote turnkey style studio, which means that no

861
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,919
Speaker 1: one lives on the property, and for a long time

862
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: the only permanent resident was a cat named Bubba. Prairie

863
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: Sun Studios has among its facilities a large live room

864
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: where Weights recorded Night on Earth, but once Waits got

865
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: set up there for Bone Machine, he relocated and said

866
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: that what's been variously referred to as a shed or

867
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: closet adjacent to the studio, now called the weights Room.

868
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: Higel tell us about the weights Room, I believe it

869
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 2: is technically a storage room. It's been called a shed.

870
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 2: But without having been there myself and maybe I'll go,

871
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 2: who's to say, something like an hour and a half drive.

872
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 2: I was so disturbed the studio we got was totally wrong.

873
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 2: Waits til journalist Mark Rowland. Fortunately we stumbled upon a

874
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: storage room that sounded so good, plus had already had

875
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 2: maps on the wall. So I said, that's it. We're sold.

876
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 2: What of the idea, make of that what you will.

877
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,280
Speaker 2: That's the that's just Tom for you. The weights room,

878
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 2: which is just it had its wood panel walls and

879
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 2: a concrete floor, which accounts for its sort of weird

880
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 2: acoustic properties. But it's become the bone machine like sound

881
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 2: has become so famous as a shorthand that there is

882
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: a preset after it, modeled after the sound of that

883
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 2: room on a five thousand dollars digital rack reverb called

884
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,959
Speaker 2: s ERCASTI M seven. So he found a storage room

885
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 2: in a studio on a chicken ranch, and decades later

886
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 2: people programmed it into a rack reverb that cousted more

887
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: than any car I've owned. And then he added it

888
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 2: rained a lot when we were recording, and we worked

889
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 2: in a shed, just a cement floor and water heater.

890
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 2: We ran wires down the hill in the rain. It

891
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 2: wasn't soundproofed. And he adds, I've got great singers Chad

892
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 2: Blake and Biff DAWs and Joe Marquez, and they can

893
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 2: get a great sound out of anything. They don't flinch.

894
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: If you say you want to put a mic up

895
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: that bull's ass over there and you want to slap

896
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 2: him on the stomach, they'd say, well, uh, I guess

897
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 2: we could use an SM fifty seven, which is actually true.

898
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 2: You can put those things on anything. Guarantee you for

899
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 2: all your you know, if anyone out there wants to

900
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 2: get into a home recording, ninety percent of your favorite

901
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 2: record was recorded with an s M fifty seven. I

902
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 2: was working with Tom Waites on his album Bone Machine.

903
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 2: Producer and engineer Chad Blake told Sound on Sound he

904
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 2: wanted to go to a flea market one day when

905
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 2: we were working, and we got there, we said we're

906
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 2: gonna split up and just go look for something. We

907
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 2: like to do that. We would go to places and

908
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 2: find one little thing that you could use on a session.

909
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 2: I went looking around and ended up with a microphone

910
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 2: from a submarine and the Sure level lock to a

911
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 2: volume limitar compressor unit. I paid five dollars for each

912
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 2: of those things. I just got the level lock because

913
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 2: I liked the name. I had no idea what it was,

914
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,760
Speaker 2: Blake continued. When I took it back to the studio,

915
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 2: I plugged it in on the desk and ran something

916
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 2: through it from an OX and it made one little

917
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: cap sound and then nothing, And I said, I think

918
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 2: I just blew it up. Tom just said I know

919
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 2: a TV repairman up in Santa Rosa, just up the road.

920
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: I don't remember what he said. I blew, but the

921
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 2: guy had to replace something and he didn't have the

922
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 2: right things and he had to improvise. So five dollars

923
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 2: used Sure compressor limitter fixed by a TV repair guy

924
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 2: with whatever he had laying around the shop. That's the

925
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 2: Tom White sound. Baby, take that to the bank.

926
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: Another great Blake Boone machine moment from my dear friend

927
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: Morgan Enos's roundup of Tom Waite's session musician interviews at.

928
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: Title Great piece. That is a great piece. He did

929
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 2: a lot of really, he talked to most people who

930
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 2: are living and trackable from the piece.

931
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,760
Speaker 1: Blake was also inspired by a tripy tick into India

932
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,720
Speaker 1: where he fell in love with another very specific sound,

933
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: an entire silver band than a car blaring their music

934
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: through a twelve olt.

935
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 2: Pa mounted on top.

936
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: He ended up buying one of those systems, bringing it

937
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: home and applying at the bone machine. We have that

938
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 1: set up out the horn about one hundred feet away,

939
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: then the microphone recording the horn, and then Tom off

940
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: the side of the building with a microphone yelling into

941
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: the outdoors.

942
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 2: This is a stupid question. What is a silver band?

943
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 2: I don't know. Actually I looked that up and I

944
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 2: and I couldn't find any like pinned down references. I

945
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 2: assume it's a horn band of some kind. But yeah,

946
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 2: a lot of this album was recorded outdoors, like just

947
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 2: in and around the ranch. He was using a lot

948
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 2: of feud recordings that he made of like cars going

949
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 2: by and stuff. But they would just like the guitarist

950
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 2: on it, smoky horn. All all of these guys have

951
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 2: names like Raymond Chandlers. It's kind of hilarious. I'm trying

952
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 2: to figure out who said this. One of the guitarists

953
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: on there was talking about like they weren't getting the

954
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 2: sound that they wanted in the shed, so they just

955
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 2: opened the doors. And he was like, yeah, and I

956
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,760
Speaker 2: would just be playing guitar into like a ten thousand

957
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,399
Speaker 2: dollars noyman mike and there would just be a dog

958
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: walking by then.

959
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 1: Is that Bob Dylan recorded some of Blood on the

960
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 1: tracks like Tangle Up Blue and was in the outside.

961
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not sure about that, matter of fact.

962
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 2: I know, like I mean, basement tapes is obviously like

963
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: much of it was done in a basement, even though

964
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 2: a lot of it was over dubbed in a big,

965
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 2: fancy Columbia studio. Anyway, what scronk Heigel assertive dissonance As

966
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 2: one of my favorite YouTube guitarists, Eric Hougan put it,

967
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: skronk is when you sound like you don't know what

968
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 2: you're playing, but you mean it. That's beautiful. Wow. I

969
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 2: like that. Anyway. Waite and Brennan assembled Bone Machine from

970
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 2: about sixty sketches for songs, a process he likened to cannibalism.

971
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 2: That's part of the's that's part of the process. Frankenstein

972
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 2: that number over there, take the head off him and

973
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 2: sew it on to this guy, immediately keep him alive

974
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 2: until the head has been severed. Kathleen is great to

975
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 2: work with, he said. She's elapsed Catholic from Illinois. She's

976
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 2: loaded with mythology and has a great sense of melody.

977
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 2: I spin the chamber and she fires it. It's Russian roulette.

978
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 2: Sometimes you get great things. Much of the album's roulette

979
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 2: like nature came down to the fact that Waits was

980
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: occupied more on this record than anyone previous with percussion sounds.

981
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 2: He plays percussion of different kinds on nearly every track,

982
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 2: which I think is an outgrowth of his sort of

983
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: interest in of all things hip hop. He's actually mentioned

984
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 2: how like, in interviews around this time he was like

985
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 2: much of what he was listening to was hip hop

986
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 2: because his son, Casey I think, was born around rain

987
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 2: dogs and I think was like growing up listening to

988
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 2: hip hop. So he talks a lot about getting like

989
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 2: the sounds of that percussion and stuff. He's like in

990
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 2: many interviews have been like, oh no, I like hip hop, Like,

991
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: I think it's like the most interesting form of pop music.

992
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 2: Happening right now anyway. For the cheery opener, the Earth

993
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,720
Speaker 2: Died Screaming, Waits grabbed the title from a nineteen sixty

994
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 2: four British sci fi movie that he'd never actually seen,

995
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: and then set about recreating a field recording that Jim

996
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 2: Jarvion had sent him of a tribe of pigmies playing

997
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 2: stick percussion. Now here's the depths I go through for

998
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 2: you people. The pigmy thing is a noted Weights quote,

999
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 2: right Like, He's talked about this with Jarmish. He's talked

1000
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 2: about saying like playing pygmy percussion like a tribe of pygmies,

1001
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. He says he got it from Jarmish

1002
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 2: because there's an interview I think in Q magazine or

1003
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 2: something where they're interviewing each other and he says to Jarmish,

1004
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 2: like that recording of pigmies that you sent me like

1005
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 2: really flipped me out. I wanted to get that sound

1006
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 2: on bone machine. So in researching this episode, I said

1007
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 2: about finding what recording that may have actually been the

1008
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 2: closest I was able to get to it was a

1009
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 2: Jim Jarmish interview at the Creative Independent where he recommended

1010
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety three book Song from the Forest, My

1011
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 2: Life among the bob Benjelly Pigmies by Louis Sarno, And

1012
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 2: this book is about how Sarno went to Central Africa

1013
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 2: to research the music of these pigmy tribes and he

1014
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 2: wound up marrying one of them and like staying there

1015
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 2: the rest of his life. But because that came out

1016
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety three, I don't know that that if

1017
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 2: there was a CD that accompanied that recording, or Jarmish

1018
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 2: had an advanced pressing, because the other thing that you

1019
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 2: get when you look for, you know, Pigmy stick recordings,

1020
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 2: is this nineteen ninety two recording that is linked which

1021
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 2: you should punch in, that came out ninety two from

1022
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 2: Smithsonian Folk Ways. So well, I can't say for certain

1023
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 2: what the actual recording that Jim Jarmus sent Tom Waits

1024
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 2: that inspired the percussion sounds on Earth Died Screaming. I

1025
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 2: can say for certain that there was at least a

1026
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,439
Speaker 2: year or two long period in the nineties during which

1027
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 2: Jim Jarmish was really into Pigby music.

1028
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:01,800
Speaker 1: When you think about it, wasn't there a time in

1029
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: the nineties when all of us were really into big

1030
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:04,320
Speaker 1: thing music.

1031
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 2: I remember being a big influence on in Utero. So anyway,

1032
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 2: Wade's told so.

1033
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,439
Speaker 1: Quick, sir, can you tell us a little more about

1034
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: how they're making that sound?

1035
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,439
Speaker 2: It sounds either yeah, well, so like marimba's are are

1036
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 2: xylophones made of wood, right, and they're they're also basically

1037
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 2: because they came first, they're one of the more like

1038
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 2: ancient forms of musical instruments that we have. And there's

1039
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 2: a great documentary called Throw Down Your Heart with Baila

1040
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 2: Fleck of All People, which is like because he's a

1041
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 2: banjo verrsuo, so he goes on this like musicological tour

1042
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 2: of Africa because that's where the banjo comes from. That's

1043
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 2: his whole thing. He's like, I'm just gonna go to

1044
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 2: all these different countries in Africa that has like musical

1045
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 2: traditions related to the banjo, and I'm gonna just go

1046
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 2: jam there with them. And it's really incredible. And there's

1047
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 2: one where he goes to a village where they build

1048
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: a marimba that is like thirty feet long by just

1049
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 2: digging a giant trench and shoving a bunch of logs

1050
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 2: into it that create pitches based on how long and

1051
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,240
Speaker 2: wide the logs are relative to the depth of the hole.

1052
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 2: And then like ten or fifteen kids all just get

1053
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 2: together and start hitting the different pieces with wood or

1054
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 2: rocks or whatever. And so that's how you get this

1055
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 2: kind of tonal, polyrhythmic thing out of this massive sound.

1056
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 2: Because it's like ten people playing a thirty foot long

1057
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 2: instrument dug into the ground. So I have to assume

1058
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 2: it's like wood on wood of some kind. Wow. And

1059
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 2: so when Wade's and Jarmish you're talking to each other

1060
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 2: in this interview for a straight no chaser, he tells

1061
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 2: Jarmish we struggled for a couple of days with getting

1062
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 2: the sound of a stick orchestra inside the studio for

1063
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 2: Earth Dyed Screaming. We tried every configuration and position of

1064
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 2: the microphone, and finally I said, well, why don't we

1065
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,439
Speaker 2: go outside? Isn't that where all these recordings are made?

1066
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: And five minutes later we had a mic set up,

1067
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 2: we were hitting it. It was there, just two by fours,

1068
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 2: anything we could find, logged from the firewood, about nine people,

1069
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: just different people fucking by. We'd say, come on, play

1070
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 2: some sticks, and then hilariously you b four D has

1071
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 2: a song called Earth Dives Screaming, based after the same movie,

1072
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 2: and it sucks. It really sucks. Ah, So I hate

1073
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 2: on a scale I won the Red Red one. How's

1074
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 2: it right, Probably worse because it's it's like this incredbling

1075
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 2: metal title and it's like dreams. This is the worst

1076
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 2: I've ever heard in my life, Like this whole like

1077
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 2: British when they like, I know the British are really

1078
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 2: into reggae, right, but like once it got out of

1079
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 2: the clashes hands and into the hands of the softest hands, imaginable,

1080
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 2: My god, I don't want to all the Specials. What

1081
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 2: about the Specials? Specials were biracial. I mean they were,

1082
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 2: and it was and it was like more on the

1083
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 2: ground floor of SKA. They were closer. They were like

1084
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 2: ten years from actual sky, whereas like UB forty is

1085
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: like eighties. So it's like it's like synth ska. You know,

1086
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 2: there's synth tones on there, and I hate that the

1087
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 2: guitar sounds that bad on that though. You shut up,

1088
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 2: you shut your mouth, ah, what do you know? Suddenly

1089
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 2: enraged much of the percussion that time. One of my

1090
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 2: all time favorite Steve Bailey moments of stage bands or

1091
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 2: was there were there and he was like, this next

1092
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 2: one's a slow song, and I went, oh, I know

1093
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 2: this one, and and suddenly he goes.

1094
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 3: Do you.

1095
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 2: Oh? I love that guy. Much of the percussion that

1096
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: Waits used. Much of the percussion that Waits used on

1097
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 2: this album's inspired by Harry Partch was tremendously fascinating figure

1098
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 2: in twentieth century music. He's one of these classic outsider artists.

1099
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 2: There is a actually you know now that I mentioned

1100
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if he's in songs in the kiev Z,

1101
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 2: which is sort of the like outsider music tome that

1102
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 2: like Wesley Willis and Dennis Johnson are into. Like pre Internet,

1103
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 2: that was like where you'd find out about the bulk

1104
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 2: of these guys. Didn't We talk about Harry Partch on

1105
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 2: the Planet of the eight Side, So probably we've talked

1106
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 2: about it somewhere and I'm gonna do it again. Harry

1107
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 2: Partch was born in Oakland in nineteen oh one. His

1108
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 2: parents were Christian missionaries in China who fled during the

1109
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 2: Box of Rebellion, and then once they came over to

1110
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 2: the state, they moved around quite a bit from Arizona

1111
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 2: to Albertquerque to La and so Harry Partch grew up

1112
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 2: hearing everything from Chinese lullabies that his mother would sing

1113
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 2: to him and Mandarin to the Yaqui Indian tribes in

1114
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 2: the Southwest, and he began studying piano and playing a

1115
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 2: bunch of different instruments when he was a teenager, but

1116
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 2: he was an orphan by the time he was nineteen.

1117
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 2: His father died of I want to say, tuberculosis, and

1118
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 2: then his mom died in a car accident. And he

1119
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 2: spent like two years in college in LA and then

1120
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 2: moved to San Francisco. And San Francisco at this time

1121
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 2: had this interesting influx of white guys being enamored of

1122
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 2: non Western music, which was because of San Francisco's Chinatown,

1123
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 2: which had been rebuilt after the Great Fire, and in

1124
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 2: the wake of that is when you get sort of

1125
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 2: the I hate to say this, but like disneyfied version

1126
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 2: of Chinatown. Like pre the Fire, San Francisco's Chinatown was

1127
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 2: terrifying because the Triads owned it and it was like

1128
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 2: where they did all their opium trafficking and sex trafficking

1129
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 2: and other trafficking, food trafficking. The least love member of

1130
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 2: the Trafficking Apocalypse. Anyway, listen to Steve Winwood's band Traffic,

1131
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 2: the most loved of the four traffics of the Apocalypse, sex, drug, food,

1132
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 2: and traffic trafficking. Mister fantasy, Yeah, that's if you're a

1133
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 2: real I'm a traffic trafficker. I got a real extensive

1134
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 2: collection of board feeds from the nineteen sixties. That's a

1135
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: really absurd like mister show said, the traffic Traffickers. They

1136
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 2: pan over and there's Steve Winwood playing a B three

1137
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 2: and like a dog crate. Mao? Did he mao? Anyway?

1138
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 2: So yeah they So the rebuilt San Francisco Chinatown had

1139
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 2: all of these nightclubs where people would play, and tea

1140
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 2: houses where people would play traditional Chinese music, and including

1141
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 2: the guy who was heading my employer, the San Francisco

1142
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 2: Conservatory Music. Oh, he would go see Chinese music there

1143
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 2: like five nights a week, and so would these guys

1144
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 2: named Henry Cowell and Lou Harrison, both of whom are

1145
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 2: considered foundational figures and avant garde sort of experimental twentieth

1146
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 2: century new music as opposed to like your romantic and

1147
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 2: maller and all that stuff, and what they were really

1148
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 2: interested was getting away from Western tonalities, and Lou Harrison

1149
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 2: particular was really inspired by Gamalan music from Indonesia in

1150
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 2: the way that that's like has all of these non

1151
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 2: it's anything that isn't in like the twelve tone Western

1152
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 2: scale and has all of these quarter tones and the

1153
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 2: little different half tones. And you get that in Chinese

1154
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 2: melodies because they have a lot of non fixed pitch

1155
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 2: instruments like the auru and I think it's called the

1156
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 2: just the chin, the big slide. I think that looks

1157
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 2: like a big lap steel guitar, but it's like twelve

1158
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 2: feet long and made out of wood. So they use

1159
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 2: a lot of microtones. And so there's this weird confluence

1160
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 2: in the in San Francisco in particular of these three

1161
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 2: guys and many others Lou Harrison, like I said, Lou

1162
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: Harrison and Harry Cowell Ernest Block from the Conservatory at

1163
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 2: Harry Parch and they are all like totally transfixed by

1164
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 2: these sounds. And Parch becomes obsessed with the idea of

1165
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 2: just intonation, which I've talked about previously on this podcast

1166
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 2: and I will do again. Just intonation is a method

1167
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 2: of tuning that goes back to the early pre Pythagorean

1168
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 2: forms of musical tuning. The Pythagorean tuning is when it's

1169
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 2: based on the ratios of intervals to one another, right,

1170
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 2: and so in the Western temperate scale you get uneven

1171
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 2: ratios because you're cramming twelve semi tones into an octave,

1172
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 2: so the ratios are like three to two. They'll be

1173
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 2: uneven in different places. But if you actually drill down

1174
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 2: into the way that the overtones of any fundamental pitch work,

1175
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 2: they stack up in fits and they create more perfect

1176
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 2: sensical ratios to each other one to one. That's the

1177
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 2: shorthand version of just intonation. And so for Parch he

1178
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,920
Speaker 2: basically decided to burn everything that he'd written in Western

1179
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 2: intonation in an actual stove in New Orleans in nineteen

1180
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 2: thirty and was like, I'm only doing my stuff now.

1181
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 2: And the first thing that he did was he went

1182
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 2: to a New Orleans luthier and he brought him a

1183
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 2: cello neck and a viola body, and he was like,

1184
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 2: put these together for me, and the guy did, and

1185
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 2: that turned it into an instrument that had twenty nine

1186
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 2: tones per octave. Wo and Western music is all twelve tones. Proactive,

1187
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 2: but like Indian music, Chinese music, Gamalo music, all the

1188
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 2: other musics of the non West have microtones in them

1189
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 2: where it'll be like a quarter of a tone, or

1190
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 2: a third of a tone, or three quarters of a tone.

1191
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 2: That stuff sounds really really alien to people. I've talked

1192
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 2: with a lot of composers of Iranian or Persian or

1193
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 2: otherwise Middle Eastern descent who talk about how difficult it

1194
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 2: can be to notate those pitches. For Western musicians who

1195
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 2: haven't grown up with them, it must be impossible. I mean,

1196
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 2: it must be like they have to sit down and

1197
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 2: sing them, and they can really and and the best

1198
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 2: people doing it are people and non obviously non fixed

1199
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 2: pix instruments. So like this, when composer came back and

1200
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 2: had premiere at the Conservatory and it was it was

1201
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 2: like a string quartet, but he was making them all

1202
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 2: sit and play like quarter tones and stuff that came

1203
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 2: out of his background and what was before it became

1204
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 2: iron Persia. And he was like, yeah, I'd have to

1205
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 2: sit down and sing this stuff to them because I

1206
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 2: would put like three quarters of a pitch, and in

1207
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 2: some places they have to invent new notation for it. Anyway,

1208
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 2: Parch got some money to go study in England, but

1209
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 2: then he returned to the States in nineteen thirty five

1210
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 2: at the height of the Great Depression, and for the

1211
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 2: next nine years he was basically a hobo. He would

1212
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 2: like travel around with his collection of scores and like

1213
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 2: plans for these different instruments and all the music that

1214
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 2: could be made on them that he was writing. But

1215
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 2: he would basically just stop anywhere that he could have

1216
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 2: space to set up and create new instruments and compose

1217
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 2: and then move on. For example, his instrument called the

1218
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 2: Chromelodeon was a forty three tone read organ that sounds,

1219
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 2: if you'll click on this link, exactly like a Tom

1220
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 2: Waits record. Ah. But he would set up in places

1221
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 2: as various as like a forge on a ranch in Wisconsin,

1222
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 2: a chicken farm, and Petaluma, an abandoned shipyard in Sasolito,

1223
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 2: and he would just keep building these instruments when he

1224
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 2: had the resources to it, and writing this music, and

1225
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:20,919
Speaker 2: finally some of it got released in like I think

1226
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 2: The World of Harry Parks was the first record that

1227
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 2: this stuff was recorded on and thus inspired the creation

1228
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 2: of this Harry Parks Ensemble, which is still out there

1229
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 2: performing his music and maintaining these instruments, of which there

1230
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 2: are only like one version of many of them. And

1231
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 2: I think Waits heard the sound of Harry parts from

1232
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 2: Kathleen Brennan and was obsessed with all of these different

1233
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 2: percussion instruments and just the idea of like making your

1234
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 2: own crap. And so he had met a guy named

1235
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 2: Francis Thom who owns the Chrome melodeon. Did you play

1236
01:07:55,360 --> 01:08:04,920
Speaker 2: that thing? You got to punch in a clip of it.

1237
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 1: It's funny because there's a little kid I had. I

1238
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: think it was called a melodica. Oh yeah, And it

1239
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: sounds just.

1240
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And it's sort of like

1241
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 2: you can get microtnes out of read instruments, like you

1242
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 2: get blues heart players who bend notes and stuff. But

1243
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 2: like this is actually split into forty three tones.

1244
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:27,320
Speaker 1: Actually it doesn't sound as alien as I would have

1245
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:28,600
Speaker 1: expected given.

1246
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 2: How many tones. What's interesting about it is that like

1247
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 2: you hear out of tune stuff or out of Western

1248
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 2: tune stuff, Like if you play an old piano, there

1249
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 2: are gonna be parts of it that are intonated, closer

1250
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 2: to just intonation than Western temperament. Right, So it just

1251
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 2: sounds like a saggy old or like or like bad

1252
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 2: reads in a reed instrument, Like it just sounds like

1253
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 2: a baggy old, saggy organ because it sounds like it's

1254
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 2: falling out of pitch. But it was actually elaborately designed

1255
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 2: from the jump to not play in the pitches anyway.

1256
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,799
Speaker 2: Good luck Editing that waits. His contribution to the spiritual

1257
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 2: canon of parch instrumentation is something he calls the Conundrum.

1258
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 2: Get it. This is like the word conundrum, but it's

1259
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 2: also a percussion instrument. That's good. That's good. You get it,

1260
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 2: You get it. I googled this earlier.

1261
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 3: This is cool.

1262
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, various quotes about it follow. It looks

1263
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 2: like a big iron crucifix, and there are a lot

1264
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 2: of different things that we hang off of it, crowbars,

1265
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 2: tijuana sabers, and found metal objects. I like the sound

1266
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 2: of I like to play drums when I'm angry at home.

1267
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 2: I have a metal instrument called a conundrum, A lot

1268
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 2: of things hanging off of it, metal objects. I like

1269
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:46,680
Speaker 2: playing it with a hammer. It's just a metal configuration,

1270
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 2: like a metal cross. It looks a little bit like

1271
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 2: a Chinese torture device. It gives you access to these

1272
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 2: alternative sound sources. Hit him with a hammer sounds like

1273
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:00,120
Speaker 2: a jail door closing behind you. I like it it

1274
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 2: you end up with bloody knuckles when you play it.

1275
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 2: So many thoughts in that. Yeah. Oh, he's such a

1276
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 2: champion interviewer, man, I wish you would do more. Bone

1277
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:14,599
Speaker 2: Machine is packed with the usual rotating cast of uh

1278
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 2: Waits collaborators, but with a couple of far Field picks.

1279
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 1: Yes, there's Primus drummer Brian and Tia credited as Brain

1280
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,559
Speaker 1: because Primus sucks, which is their official logo and my

1281
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:30,640
Speaker 1: statement on them, as well as the band's singer and

1282
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 1: bassist Les Claypole. They show up as a favor for

1283
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 1: Waits guest vocal on Tommy the Cat in nineteen ninety one.

1284
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 2: I've never heard that song, So maybe do you want

1285
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 2: to let down with me? So maybe do you want

1286
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:41,720
Speaker 2: to let down? By my side?

1287
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 3: A baby?

1288
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,719
Speaker 2: Do you want to let down with me? It's great

1289
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 2: he talks about like sending them well, I mean he

1290
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 2: read this next.

1291
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 1: Part much like Tom Waits and Keith Richards.

1292
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:52,759
Speaker 2: It was kind of a record label hookup.

1293
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 1: Les Claypole mentioned Tom as a possible voice for the song,

1294
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: and his label was like, well call him. Primus came

1295
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 1: up from the studio and found a voicemail from Weights

1296
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 1: on his answering machine saying he do the part and

1297
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: this is cute. Let's Claypool still has the answering machine tape.

1298
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 2: He's like, he like does a little imitation. You can

1299
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 2: punch it, and he's like, and I get this, you know,

1300
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:15,640
Speaker 2: and I get this. Uh try to how to go

1301
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 2: from a less Claypool voice. So I punched play on

1302
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 2: my voicemail machine. I hear Tom going, well, it's great

1303
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:24,720
Speaker 2: to have got your demo tape from the boys to

1304
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:26,680
Speaker 2: the label, and I think it's really great when your

1305
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:28,639
Speaker 2: kids are up to him glad you're you know, hip

1306
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 2: to the scene and this.

1307
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a it's kind of like a

1308
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 1: California Bruce Springsteen when I hear you do.

1309
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 2: It at least yeah, I mean it's a little of that,

1310
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 2: like you know that David Cross skit where he's like

1311
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 2: uh uh heo, man, I'm from Butte, Montana. Yeah, man,

1312
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 2: I'm from Pomona, Pomona, California. Oh man, I'm from Texar, Canada, Texas.

1313
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 2: It's just like the American hick voice. Yeah, that spans

1314
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 2: the entirety of the country. Yeah, there's a good bit

1315
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 2: of that. Also on the Machine.

1316
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 1: There's Los Lobos founding member David Hill Dago, who plays

1317
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,559
Speaker 1: accordion and violin. He also shows up on grace Land.

1318
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 1: We talked about in a Graceland.

1319
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 2: Episode yep, possibly having songs stolen. Yep. There's Sacks and

1320
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 2: Reid specialist Ralph Carney, who's best known to me as

1321
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 2: being the uncle of the drummer for The Black Keys,

1322
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,599
Speaker 2: Patrick Karney, who sucks. He's like if all the jokes

1323
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 2: about Ringo were true, he's like the worst drummer to

1324
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 2: ever achieve. Oh my god, he's awful. Listen to those

1325
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 2: early Black Keys records. He's barely playing in time. I

1326
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 2: saw them at some music festival and like they do

1327
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,120
Speaker 2: have kind of a weird lock up, Like what's his name,

1328
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 2: the lead singer, Dan Auerbach, like he had one. They

1329
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 2: had like a full band, like a big band, like

1330
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 2: keys and bass and everything. At one point he sent

1331
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:48,400
Speaker 2: all of them away and he's like, all right, me

1332
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 2: and Patrick are gonna do some of the old ones.

1333
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 2: And they like they do have a weirdly tell an

1334
01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 2: lock up from just playing only together for so long,

1335
01:12:55,240 --> 01:13:00,080
Speaker 2: but he is a dog drummer. It's just really astounding.

1336
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 1: Only like seeing them when it's just the two of them,

1337
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: when they have the full band, they just.

1338
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 2: Sound like any other band like that. Dan Aurbuck is awesome.

1339
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 2: I mean, like I know, he's kind of a bro

1340
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 2: or whatever, and people will like give the Black Keys

1341
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 2: a lot of shit, but those early records are like

1342
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 2: legitimately for being from Akron, Like that dude would just

1343
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:20,720
Speaker 2: drive down into the South and find like all of

1344
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 2: these old hill country blues guys and be like, please

1345
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 2: teach me this stuff, and and like, you know, there's

1346
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 2: on Chullahoma, there's that like he has he like gets

1347
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 2: a voicemail from like some clearly old black woman who's like,

1348
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 2: that's the you put out the only record I ever

1349
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,200
Speaker 2: heard that sound like a you know something something record,

1350
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 2: And it's like he is very very good at copying

1351
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:43,680
Speaker 2: that stuff and especially the at singing along with it.

1352
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:46,719
Speaker 2: And it's just so funny to me that like Patrick

1353
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:50,599
Speaker 2: Carney like briefly married to Michelle Branch and just got

1354
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 2: like dragged along on the on what was clearly dan

1355
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:57,040
Speaker 2: Auerbach's a cent into being the musician he was meant

1356
01:13:57,080 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 2: to be, and Patrick Karney's just along for the ride,

1357
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 2: like solemnly tweeting and sucking at the drums. I hate

1358
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:09,000
Speaker 2: that guy anyway, sidebar over he was like, bro, He's

1359
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 2: one of the sweetest guys I've ever interviewed, actually, isn't.

1360
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:14,679
Speaker 2: I think I remember? No, No, I mean like someone

1361
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,800
Speaker 2: was giving him this is like a this is just

1362
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 2: going so far down, idiot ats blues revival like rock

1363
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 2: revival stuff. But I feel like there was like some

1364
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 2: kind of at tension between him and Jack White because like.

1365
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 1: Oh, there was a huge amount of tension between him

1366
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 1: and Jack White. I mean when Jack White was getting divorced,

1367
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 1: all those emails came out because he just felt that

1368
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:39,640
Speaker 1: like Dan Araback was following him around.

1369
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 2: Yes, which is hilarious considering that Jack White plays guitar

1370
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 2: like a toddler compared to Dan Auerback, and like Dan

1371
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:50,719
Speaker 2: Aurback honestly for his part, produced an amazing Doctor John

1372
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 2: record and like has done a lot of cool collaborations,

1373
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 2: whereas Jack White has only like been surly and pale

1374
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:00,120
Speaker 2: and wrote one of the worst James Bond songs. I

1375
01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:02,120
Speaker 2: like that. I like another Way to Die. It's no

1376
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:03,639
Speaker 2: Skyfall sounds different.

1377
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,960
Speaker 1: I like that it sounded different, although apparently they get

1378
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 1: it in at the last minute because Amy Winehouse was

1379
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 1: supposed to do the Bond theme for Quantum of Solace

1380
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 1: and then she just never got it together.

1381
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 2: So they went to Jack White, and he basically was like.

1382
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,640
Speaker 1: Well, I know they're gonna use whatever I turn in

1383
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:20,479
Speaker 1: because they're under a gun here, so I'm gonna do

1384
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 1: something weird.

1385
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:22,800
Speaker 2: There's nothing they can do about it. Yeah, I mean,

1386
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 2: I like Jack White, I don't I like the White Stripes,

1387
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,719
Speaker 2: but they're they're doing something much different. And like it's

1388
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 2: insane to me that he would even they don't sound like.

1389
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 2: They sound like different bands like the White Stripes don't swing.

1390
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 2: And one thing at least you can say for those

1391
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 2: early Black Keys records is that they have a really

1392
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 2: good rhythmic feel to them, primarily because of Dan Auerbach

1393
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 2: and people would like give him shit. There's like a

1394
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:48,200
Speaker 2: rolling Stone thing where like somebody gave him for liking

1395
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:51,000
Speaker 2: g love and special sauce, oh yeah, and being like

1396
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,040
Speaker 2: and being like, yeah, he was just like a varsity

1397
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 2: soccer player and in high school and like he liked

1398
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 2: G Love and he was his total like blues poser,

1399
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 2: and he got sadly defensive about it, where he was like,

1400
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 2: G Love is a very accomplished fingerpicker, and yes, I

1401
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,680
Speaker 2: played soccer like I told you Love last year. It

1402
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 2: was incredible. But I feel for Dan auerback man, like

1403
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 2: he just likes the blues, and he admitted he admittedly

1404
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 2: did a lot more studying of it than like Jack

1405
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 2: White did, who was like, I'll just talk, I'll sing

1406
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 2: real stupid and play guitar like I have four thumbs,

1407
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:24,559
Speaker 2: you know, And he's so thin skinned. I mean that's

1408
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 2: the other thing. Jack White is so muleing and he's

1409
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 2: the biggest sore winner ever. You know, he got all

1410
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 2: the money in the world to buy mustache wax and

1411
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:43,880
Speaker 2: bolero jackets, and he's so perpetually aggrieved by it, just

1412
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:46,519
Speaker 2: because everyone wants him to get back with Meg and

1413
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 2: make a record that doesn't suck. Sidebar over.

1414
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:52,720
Speaker 1: I just I love how mad Jack White was that

1415
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 1: Dan Arabach's kid goes at the same school that Jack

1416
01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 1: White's kid goes to.

1417
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 2: Again, like again, just you're in the city the same

1418
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:03,240
Speaker 2: You're just two roads diverged in a wood and you're

1419
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 2: just mad that one of them that he's a better

1420
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 2: guitar player than you. That's it. And I bet I'm

1421
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:10,080
Speaker 2: gonna go out on a limb and say that like

1422
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 2: having an old black woman's like voicemail on your record

1423
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 2: as like a seal of approval saying it sounded like

1424
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:21,320
Speaker 2: a what does she say, Junior Kimbro. Yeah, because Chulahoma

1425
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 2: is where he's from, and they were performing or his

1426
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 2: juke joint, and they were performing there. They're an EP.

1427
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, let me take all of this back. Actually,

1428
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:35,599
Speaker 2: let me take everything I just said about about this back.

1429
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 2: Chullahoma is a Black Keys EP where they are recording

1430
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 2: Junior Kimbro songs. He's a hill country blues guitarist. And

1431
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 2: on that record is a voicemail from Junior Kimbro's widow

1432
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 2: thanking the Black Keys and that she was She said

1433
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 2: they're the only band that she heard who really plays

1434
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 2: like Junior. And I think that chap Jack White's ass

1435
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 2: so bad that he never had a black person say

1436
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:05,439
Speaker 2: he plays guitar like one of them phrasing, but you

1437
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 2: get my drift. I think that's the entire source of

1438
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 2: his His beef is that he never got an imprimatur

1439
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 2: from a bluesman or a bluesman's widow and thus a

1440
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 2: mustached to That's why he dresses like a flash snipe. Yeah,

1441
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 2: tying women to tracks that he's That was his villain

1442
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 2: origin story. No black person ever said nice things about

1443
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:32,280
Speaker 2: his guitar playing.

1444
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:36,599
Speaker 1: So Patrick Karney of the Black Kids talking about Patrick

1445
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:39,759
Speaker 1: Karney's uncle, Ralph Carney, plays on Tom Waits.

1446
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 2: This Tom Waits record for talking about in this episode. Yeah.

1447
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 1: Also included on Bone Machine is La session guitarist legend

1448
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:51,280
Speaker 1: and as you put no contest pleading, child porn aficionado,

1449
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 1: Body Wachtel.

1450
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 2: Great hair, great sixteenth note guitar line on edge of seventeen.

1451
01:18:57,400 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no contest pleading. They found a bunch of

1452
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 2: kitty porn on his hard drive, but he sent it

1453
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 2: in for repair like a moron. When did that happen?

1454
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:07,880
Speaker 2: I don't remember hearing that. He's also in the poside

1455
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 2: The Adventure Waddie Walkdel Yeah, tremendous. I know, three years

1456
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 2: probation in nineteen ninety eight compleating no contest. He was

1457
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 2: or for this. He was ordered to make a twenty

1458
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:25,080
Speaker 2: five hundred dollars Nation to Children of the Night, an

1459
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 2: agency that helps runaways that probably should have had their name.

1460
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:32,200
Speaker 2: Go back for another round, and yeah, walkedal took his

1461
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 2: computer to a shop, a La computer repair shop, and

1462
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:36,519
Speaker 2: they opened it up and found kitty porn on his

1463
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:41,280
Speaker 2: hard drive. Really gives Edge of seventeen a new meeting. Oh,

1464
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 2: I think I made that joke. We're now officially an

1465
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:46,800
Speaker 2: orra TI because I think I made that joke before.

1466
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 1: No, I don't remember ever hearing that. Okay, so I

1467
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:51,600
Speaker 1: think he's got to start playing with us start. But

1468
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 1: I think he played with the Buckingham Knicks duo before

1469
01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 1: they joined the fleet with mac.

1470
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:59,000
Speaker 2: Oh, he's yeah, he's everywhere in that era. I mean

1471
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:02,479
Speaker 2: he was Buddies with Warren too. That's him playing slide

1472
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 2: guitar and where anyway? What are we talking about?

1473
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:10,800
Speaker 1: And yet another returning Tom Waite's pal is Larry the

1474
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 1: Mole Taylor, an incredible nickname who is a longtime basis

1475
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:22,000
Speaker 1: for all sixties weird pseudo country icons and woodstock vets.

1476
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 2: Can't eat? Can you do the voice? We can't do

1477
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:35,639
Speaker 2: the voice? Yeah, going on to the country. Done the voice?

1478
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:41,040
Speaker 2: Do the voice? Do do do Do Do Do Do?

1479
01:20:41,040 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 2: Do you know what was the craziest thing about Killers

1480
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:46,000
Speaker 2: of the Flower Moon? No, I was hearing the original

1481
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 2: version of that song. Did you know there's an original

1482
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 2: going up the country that sounds the exact same way.

1483
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:56,559
Speaker 2: They really just flat out stole that song. No, Henry

1484
01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 2: Thomas nineteen twenty eight. I'm going up way long, I'm

1485
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:11,560
Speaker 2: going away.

1486
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:13,439
Speaker 3: Long.

1487
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:20,600
Speaker 2: Wow, white people have no original ideas. Nope, sure don't.

1488
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 2: I'm oh yeah, sorry, uh, Larry the mol Taylor. One

1489
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:30,360
Speaker 2: of my favorite bits of Wait's studio Apocryphi, is from

1490
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:33,479
Speaker 2: Jaquiri King, who worked on Mule variations, and he said

1491
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:35,960
Speaker 2: that most of the basic tracks on Tom RAITs records

1492
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:40,719
Speaker 2: are just Tom either playing guitar or piano and usually

1493
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 2: Larry Taylor on bass accompanying him, because I guess that's

1494
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:46,040
Speaker 2: just the lock up that they have, and then they

1495
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 2: build the rest of the song around it. Or for example,

1496
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 2: they do something like they do and Jesus is gonna

1497
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 2: be here where Waits is playing upright bass and Taylor

1498
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 2: is playing slide guitar and all he gets out of

1499
01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 2: it is that wow wow, he literally gets like two notes.

1500
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 2: I guess that maybe counts as well, Tom plays. Tom

1501
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 2: plays upright bass, and he dryly remarked in the press

1502
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,000
Speaker 2: kit probably would have been better if we'd gotten a

1503
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:14,519
Speaker 2: Baptist choir, but I kind of like it by itself.

1504
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:19,160
Speaker 2: And then Tom Waites had this to say about Larry Taylor.

1505
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:21,960
Speaker 2: Larry's great. He used to play in VFW halls with

1506
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:24,160
Speaker 2: Jered Lee Lewis where he would take a violin pickup

1507
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:26,400
Speaker 2: and wrap it in a hanky and drop that into

1508
01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 2: the piano hole that would be the mic. Larry would

1509
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 2: play over by that hole, and whatever came out of

1510
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:34,160
Speaker 2: the speaker was the bass. He's a very intuitive musician.

1511
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 2: And right after we finished the record, his bass broke,

1512
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 2: which I thought was great. It just couldn't take it anymore,

1513
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:44,559
Speaker 2: kind of a John Henry thing. And then I and

1514
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:47,719
Speaker 2: I have to mention, of course, last Warren Zevon record,

1515
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 2: the famous Near pasthamous record The Wind. The Wind has

1516
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:57,600
Speaker 2: a kind of rock and roll song on it that

1517
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:01,800
Speaker 2: Bruce Springsteen's in sings on was that the one is

1518
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:03,439
Speaker 2: I was in the house when the house burn No,

1519
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:05,639
Speaker 2: yeah it was I was the house when the house

1520
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:09,640
Speaker 2: burned down. Yeah, it's really funny, Bruce is there's some

1521
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 2: really there's a great documentary about it. And Bruce is

1522
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:14,320
Speaker 2: having a high old time coming in there to sing.

1523
01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 2: And there's one point where he's he's like supposed to

1524
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 2: be like he's supposed to be doing like a harmony

1525
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:21,679
Speaker 2: or something, and instead he like can't understand what Worren's saying.

1526
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:24,200
Speaker 2: So you just hear him on the track they kept it.

1527
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,040
Speaker 2: Hear him going, I'm not even gonna try and follow

1528
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:30,439
Speaker 2: Arren on that one. Ah, so like dense, densely intricate rhyme.

1529
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:33,720
Speaker 2: But then he plays a guitar solo and and you know,

1530
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this about Bruce, but

1531
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:38,800
Speaker 2: Bruce plays a mean guitar and they put him through

1532
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 2: one of those tiny little old tube of fenders like

1533
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 2: a ten inch speaker, and he blew it up like

1534
01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 2: they did like a two takes of him playing a

1535
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:50,439
Speaker 2: guitar solo on that, and then the second one it

1536
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:53,439
Speaker 2: just like sparked out and died where they were like

1537
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 2: they're like it had fulfilled its purpose and it could

1538
01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:01,679
Speaker 2: go no longer. It went to Valhalla. Yeah, great guitar

1539
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:05,680
Speaker 2: solo though, man, great great song. I was in the house.

1540
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 2: I had the doupe too Little Got Smoked. That song's okay.

1541
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:13,880
Speaker 2: It's just one of those kind of like dumb boogie

1542
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 2: rock songs that all those guys were born in the

1543
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,800
Speaker 2: baby bold baby boomers thought they could do. Did wait

1544
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 2: till Springsteen ever doing anything together? He covered Jersey Girl. Yeah,

1545
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:26,519
Speaker 2: and then and then I think they do it. There's

1546
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:28,519
Speaker 2: putting of them do it on stage, where of course

1547
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:34,679
Speaker 2: Tom is like sholo lo, Bruce is doing Black Preacher

1548
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:36,920
Speaker 2: voice over, and it's all it's all a bit much.

1549
01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right

1550
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 1: back with more too much information in just a moment.

1551
01:24:58,360 --> 01:24:59,160
Speaker 2: Well as you right.

1552
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:02,599
Speaker 1: Tom Waite to a really interesting rolodex of not quite

1553
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:06,559
Speaker 1: famous LA session musicians on his most recent album, twenty

1554
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:09,880
Speaker 1: eleven's As Bad as Me. Emmy winning LA composer Patrick

1555
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 1: Warren shows up solely because he's one of the few

1556
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:15,439
Speaker 1: people in the world who's an expert on the archaic

1557
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 1: keyboard instrument called the Chamberlain, which is like a pre melotron,

1558
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:24,800
Speaker 1: which is in itself a pre sampler synthesizer.

1559
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:27,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Chamberlain is like the worst version of a

1560
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:31,720
Speaker 2: melotron before they'd ironed out the kink whoa yeah, And

1561
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:34,240
Speaker 2: so I guess this guy Patrick has like he's like

1562
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:35,880
Speaker 2: one of the only people who knows how to play

1563
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 2: the actual instrument, so he gets every Chamberlain call from

1564
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 2: Tom Waits. But he also did the true detective like

1565
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 2: original score and want an Emmy for it. This is funny,

1566
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:48,599
Speaker 2: these guys he picks out of the cracks, like, for example,

1567
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,839
Speaker 2: you this guy you know, August Augie Meyers.

1568
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, he's best known to me as a founding

1569
01:25:55,400 --> 01:26:00,719
Speaker 1: member of the You say obscure, I think underappreciated sixties

1570
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:04,520
Speaker 1: garage rock groups Sir Douglas Quintet and the Texas Tornadoes.

1571
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 1: I think they're on nuggets, right, I believe. So. They

1572
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:13,679
Speaker 1: do a really great version of Freddie Fender's Wasted Days

1573
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:16,719
Speaker 1: and Wasted Nights. Great song. Play that on my college

1574
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 1: radio show. I bet they do, Buddy, Yes they do.

1575
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,559
Speaker 1: And one of your favorites of these kind of left

1576
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:25,760
Speaker 1: of center LA Session musicians is a guy named Charlie

1577
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:26,800
Speaker 1: muscle White.

1578
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:30,000
Speaker 2: Tell us about Charlie mussel White. Oh, I love him.

1579
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:31,719
Speaker 2: I mean it is again just one of these guys

1580
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 2: that I just tracked down because of Tom Waits. There's

1581
01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:36,840
Speaker 2: this One of my favorite Tom Waite songs is come

1582
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 2: On Up to the House off New Variations, and you

1583
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:42,519
Speaker 2: should really punch in the thirty seconds of that harmonica solo.

1584
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:45,280
Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm talking about? No, it sounds

1585
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 2: like I radiate like a car radiator dying, but in

1586
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:52,599
Speaker 2: like the most beautiful way possible. Has so many great lines.

1587
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 2: The only things that you can see are all that

1588
01:26:55,360 --> 01:26:58,719
Speaker 2: you lack. Come on up to the house, come down

1589
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:03,320
Speaker 2: off the cross. We can all use wood. That's great.

1590
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:06,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's this harmonica solo that kicks in.

1591
01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: I almost have a hard time believing in such as

1592
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:33,200
Speaker 1: like a squeaky door, and I mean that it's a compliment.

1593
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:36,919
Speaker 2: Ah, it's a shame. Harmonica is kind of a cringe instrument.

1594
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:42,960
Speaker 2: I mean, you know there's like Stevie, you could play

1595
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:46,919
Speaker 2: anything on it, and there's like Junior Walker. Oh yeah,

1596
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:49,880
Speaker 2: but like how many other like harmonica's like the John

1597
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:53,160
Speaker 2: Popper instruments. Right, it's like a fat white guy in

1598
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:56,719
Speaker 2: a fishing vest, right, Like, but you hear like genuine,

1599
01:27:57,080 --> 01:28:01,800
Speaker 2: genuine Chicago harp, like through a sure green bullet into

1600
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:06,840
Speaker 2: like a tiny eight inch speaker dimed out tu bam

1601
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:10,360
Speaker 2: and it's just like hairw the next just pop right out.

1602
01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 2: It's just ah overdriven harmonica, beautiful sound. Anyway, that guy

1603
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 2: was like a He was like a He grew up

1604
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:20,519
Speaker 2: in Memphis and like literally saw Elvis like busking on

1605
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:22,880
Speaker 2: the corners, and he was a whiskey bootlegger. And he

1606
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:28,000
Speaker 2: moved to Chicago and became like the fourth best harmonica

1607
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 2: player of the sixties. He's like one of those guys

1608
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:32,680
Speaker 2: who pursues like just perpetually on the other page of

1609
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 2: the history books. You know, it's like little Walter Paul Butterfield,

1610
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 2: you know, like all the sixties guys that you hear

1611
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:43,759
Speaker 2: Toots Teelman, Yeah, Belgian born harmonica and whistle virtuoso, Toots

1612
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 2: Teelman and and then on like the third line of

1613
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:51,320
Speaker 2: the fifth line of the Coachella poster, font Charlie mussel

1614
01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:53,600
Speaker 2: White and I interviewed him. Yeah, he was he was

1615
01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:58,240
Speaker 2: super cool. This great bit about baby Jessica fell in

1616
01:28:58,240 --> 01:29:01,040
Speaker 2: the well and that inspired him to quit drink because

1617
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 2: he said if she could go for three days without

1618
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:06,640
Speaker 2: without a drink, so could he. That was like, that

1619
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 2: was like I later found out later he tells everyone

1620
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:10,759
Speaker 2: that story, but it was I was like, that's cute.

1621
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:13,759
Speaker 2: Good for you, Charlie. Then he didn't win a Grammy

1622
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 2: for that for the album that I profiled him for,

1623
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:16,920
Speaker 2: which is sad.

1624
01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: But anyway, one of my first People stories was Toots

1625
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:25,040
Speaker 1: z Obit Oh really yes, Sesame Street harmonica player to Teelman.

1626
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 2: Jocko Pastorius collaborator, Yeah you grew it was for people

1627
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:32,920
Speaker 2: dot com though you didn't get you didn't get the

1628
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:38,559
Speaker 2: important god awful records with Jocko in there. It's like

1629
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:43,519
Speaker 2: him and him and Belgian gypsy jazz virtuoso Birelli leren

1630
01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 2: Really some dog records, just super eighties reverbed out. Jocko

1631
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 2: is all addicted to coke and Brelli Lagrenz. Everything's chorused

1632
01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:54,599
Speaker 2: within an inch of its life. There's like gated reverb

1633
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:57,439
Speaker 2: on the harp. It's awful. We should do a podcast

1634
01:29:57,479 --> 01:30:01,760
Speaker 2: about jazz fusion, sure, I mean for Tom Waits as well. Hey,

1635
01:30:01,800 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 2: I know what's the less popular thing we can talk about?

1636
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 2: One of my favorite veins rich veins of Tom lore

1637
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 2: or the non musical directions that he's supposedly gives to

1638
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:15,240
Speaker 2: people in the studio. People said he's color blind, like

1639
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 2: the guy who did the the guy who did the

1640
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:20,920
Speaker 2: concert film Big Time that is like footage from the

1641
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:24,000
Speaker 2: Franks Waders tour has said like Tom only sees in

1642
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 2: red and yellow like a dog. He's like, that's why

1643
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:28,760
Speaker 2: all the stage lighting is red and yellow. And other

1644
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:31,200
Speaker 2: people have talked about him maybe having like cynysthesia, like

1645
01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 2: he says he gets sounds colors. But some of these

1646
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:38,479
Speaker 2: things that he supposedly tells people in the studios sound

1647
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 2: like the oblique Strategies cards if they'd been written by

1648
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:46,160
Speaker 2: like a nineteen twenties Carnival Barker, like the aforementioned play

1649
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:49,600
Speaker 2: like Your Hair's on Fire. But there's this there's a

1650
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:53,040
Speaker 2: song sixteen Shells from a thirty six off Swordfish Trombones,

1651
01:30:53,280 --> 01:30:56,559
Speaker 2: great song, and he was explaining it in the studio

1652
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 2: and he said, this is about a guy who's got

1653
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:01,479
Speaker 2: a crow. He's right on a mule. He's got a

1654
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:04,640
Speaker 2: Washburn guitar. It's this crow inside the guitar and it

1655
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 2: can't get out because it's got strings across it, so

1656
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:09,719
Speaker 2: it's called the Washburn jail. And he hits the guitar

1657
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:12,720
Speaker 2: just to rattle his cage. And it's important to note

1658
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:15,840
Speaker 2: that those are the lyrics of the song. He was

1659
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:19,400
Speaker 2: just like, very seriously, well, there's this guy and he's

1660
01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:23,640
Speaker 2: got a washburn with a crow in it. Did you

1661
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:30,080
Speaker 2: get that? Larry Waits from the rain Dogs era. There's

1662
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:33,320
Speaker 2: a bass player named Greg Cohen, tremendous bass player who

1663
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:36,400
Speaker 2: was on the record with Tom and he instead of

1664
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:38,800
Speaker 2: letting him play bass guitar, he made him play the

1665
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:41,720
Speaker 2: bass pedals of a Hammond B three, but he could

1666
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:44,360
Speaker 2: only play them with his fists, like I was punching

1667
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 2: somebody out mixing feedback from the Bone Machine mixing sessions.

1668
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:54,439
Speaker 2: This is about the electric guitar sounds like it's not

1669
01:31:54,479 --> 01:31:57,080
Speaker 2: really part of the same trip. It sounds like it's

1670
01:31:57,080 --> 01:31:58,960
Speaker 2: splattered on the windshield when it ought to be in

1671
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:01,479
Speaker 2: the back seat with a little bit and Brenda. What

1672
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 2: I want to hear is everyone back inside the car,

1673
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:06,799
Speaker 2: screaming and laughing, all sitting together, one big happy family

1674
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:09,320
Speaker 2: out for a drive. You get that, and we're done

1675
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:12,559
Speaker 2: with this song that I actually kind of understand. It's

1676
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:15,280
Speaker 2: kind of like David Lynch, Like David Lynch's the guitar

1677
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:17,799
Speaker 2: sounds like it's not really part of the same trip.

1678
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 2: I see that that actually I understand, okay, all right.

1679
01:32:23,080 --> 01:32:25,120
Speaker 2: This is a variation on the ie load the chamber

1680
01:32:25,160 --> 01:32:26,680
Speaker 2: and she pulls the trigger. This is talking about it,

1681
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 2: Kathleen Brennan. A lot of the times, it's like lighting firecrackers.

1682
01:32:30,080 --> 01:32:33,439
Speaker 2: Who gets to light, who throws? We take turns. Sometimes

1683
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 2: it's I'll get the cherry bomb you hold, I'll light.

1684
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:39,040
Speaker 2: And this is presumably about David Hidalgo because he says

1685
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:42,400
Speaker 2: one accordionist I work with just eats the music. He

1686
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:44,559
Speaker 2: eats the music, and you find him, it's all over

1687
01:32:44,560 --> 01:32:48,080
Speaker 2: his shirt, down his chin. It's just been murdered. Accordionist

1688
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 2: will sometimes take apart and they'll just play the hell

1689
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:53,799
Speaker 2: out of it until it's dead. That's great. True. Actually,

1690
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:56,639
Speaker 2: have you ever heard zydeco music? Oh? Hell yeah, hell yah.

1691
01:32:56,800 --> 01:33:00,639
Speaker 1: Bow Machine's second shortest song, the Ocean, also be its

1692
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,479
Speaker 1: most disturbing. I took this from your outline because it

1693
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:05,879
Speaker 1: really stuck with me. If you'd prefer to take.

1694
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:08,320
Speaker 2: It, oh no, please go ahead, Waite explained. In the

1695
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:09,160
Speaker 2: album's press kit.

1696
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:12,080
Speaker 1: One of the local papers up here printed two photographs.

1697
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:14,400
Speaker 2: One was a picture of a woman on the.

1698
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 1: Beach holding a bottle of beer and a cigarette, looking

1699
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:19,800
Speaker 1: out at the ocean, and the next picture was the

1700
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:23,120
Speaker 1: same day, a couple hours later, of her floating face

1701
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 1: down on the brine, the beer still in her hand,

1702
01:33:26,479 --> 01:33:28,840
Speaker 1: and the photographer walked past her and heard her say

1703
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:31,599
Speaker 1: under her breath, the ocean doesn't want me today.

1704
01:33:33,439 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, there's a couple. I forgot to modulate my

1705
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 2: tone from music Guide to True Crime prodcaster because some

1706
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 2: of these are fucking depressing. Did I know the identity

1707
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:47,920
Speaker 2: of that person? I mean, dude, who even knows this

1708
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:51,320
Speaker 2: is the real thing? Oh no, he said it, and

1709
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 2: it's creepy and you never heard the song the same

1710
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:59,960
Speaker 2: way again, the ocean doesn't want me? What a Meanwhile,

1711
01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 2: Tom Waits's daughter Ca Lissen and knee Kellis Simonis. I

1712
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:09,560
Speaker 2: don't know, Kelly coin the term strangels.

1713
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:13,519
Speaker 1: I love this for that tone the ocean, Waits later explained,

1714
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 1: it's basically a compound word strange angels. And if you

1715
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:25,439
Speaker 1: have strangels, then you could have brangels. That's incredible. Those

1716
01:34:25,479 --> 01:34:29,720
Speaker 1: are the angels that live in your head. Higel, do

1717
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:30,519
Speaker 1: you have brangels?

1718
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 2: I have Breeman's.

1719
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:35,840
Speaker 1: I feel like that's what like Son of Sam has

1720
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:38,080
Speaker 1: Some of Sam had brangels, he had the labrador.

1721
01:34:38,240 --> 01:34:42,000
Speaker 2: That's true. Every tell you my creepiest son of Sam theory. No,

1722
01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:45,040
Speaker 2: So I was reading this book. I think I may

1723
01:34:45,080 --> 01:34:47,600
Speaker 2: have done it in the Exorcism the exercise, but I

1724
01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:51,760
Speaker 2: there's this book called I'm Jumped the Devil Hostage to

1725
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:57,160
Speaker 2: the Devil. Oh, yeah, and it's about It's by Malachie Martin,

1726
01:34:57,680 --> 01:35:03,840
Speaker 2: who is, you know, a allegedly one of these sanctified exorcists,

1727
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,760
Speaker 2: and he talks about it when when David Berkowitz was

1728
01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:12,519
Speaker 2: was hospitalized, he became born again, and he like constantly

1729
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:16,439
Speaker 2: wanted to be lectured on Christianity and stuff. And I

1730
01:35:16,600 --> 01:35:19,160
Speaker 2: was just struck by this horrible sensation reading it that

1731
01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:23,280
Speaker 2: like Berkowitz didn't actually believe any of it, he just

1732
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:28,200
Speaker 2: like desperately wanted to. Because I think that's like some

1733
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:30,800
Speaker 2: of the impression that Malachi Martin gives about these visits

1734
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:32,320
Speaker 2: where he was like, well, he just really wanted to

1735
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:35,560
Speaker 2: like talk about about God and stuff, but like and

1736
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:37,680
Speaker 2: forgiveness and all this like stuff and talk about how

1737
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:39,800
Speaker 2: you know, because he maintained that he'd been possessed, and

1738
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 2: but he was like I never really I just I

1739
01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 2: was like struck by the idea that he would be

1740
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:46,120
Speaker 2: like faking it to try and be like, no, I

1741
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:49,439
Speaker 2: don't actually get this, but like I desperately want to

1742
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:52,559
Speaker 2: be forgiven. I have a whole riff on Tom Waits

1743
01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:55,880
Speaker 2: and forgiveness later. Oh, just save my voice.

1744
01:35:58,040 --> 01:36:01,439
Speaker 1: Another ripped from the headlines bit on bow Machine comes

1745
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:04,360
Speaker 1: during the song A Little Rain. The lyric she was

1746
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:07,519
Speaker 1: fifteen years old and she'd never seen the ocean. She

1747
01:36:07,640 --> 01:36:10,679
Speaker 1: climbed into a van with a vagabond, and the last

1748
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:13,720
Speaker 1: thing she said was I love you Mom. It was

1749
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 1: something that was inspired by a deeply depressing newspaper article

1750
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:19,840
Speaker 1: on the Brennan Waits Archives about a van full of

1751
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:23,920
Speaker 1: hitchhiking kids that had careened over a cliff in California.

1752
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:28,479
Speaker 1: Doesn't really get much Sonnier on the next track, Murder

1753
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:32,080
Speaker 1: in the Red Barn, which may have been similarly developed

1754
01:36:32,120 --> 01:36:36,160
Speaker 1: through a completely different source, an actual eighteen twenty seven

1755
01:36:36,280 --> 01:36:40,240
Speaker 1: murder in Polstead, Suffolk, England, in which a young woman

1756
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:43,559
Speaker 1: Maria Martin was shot dead by her lover William Cord

1757
01:36:44,280 --> 01:36:47,240
Speaker 1: at the Red Barn, a local landmark, after meeting him

1758
01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:51,200
Speaker 1: for a promised elopement. This became a popular topic for

1759
01:36:51,320 --> 01:36:54,759
Speaker 1: murder ballads in the intervening years. The Waits version appears

1760
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:57,360
Speaker 1: to have lidland common with the source except for its name.

1761
01:36:57,720 --> 01:36:59,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny because murdered the red Barn is

1762
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:04,160
Speaker 2: such a distinctly like there's nothing British about it. Yeah,

1763
01:37:04,200 --> 01:37:06,400
Speaker 2: that surprised me. He does have the line that he

1764
01:37:06,479 --> 01:37:10,719
Speaker 2: said that a bloodstained axe is not a surprise something

1765
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:12,840
Speaker 2: because it's never out of sight, because there's always some

1766
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:16,439
Speaker 2: killing that has to be done around the farm. And

1767
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:18,519
Speaker 2: then he talks about he's like, well, you know the

1768
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:21,760
Speaker 2: barns were painted red because it was animal blood was

1769
01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:24,360
Speaker 2: all they had. It was cheaper than pain. I never

1770
01:37:24,479 --> 01:37:27,160
Speaker 2: heard that. Yeah, that was that was the Tom Waite's

1771
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:30,000
Speaker 2: version of it. But then I gooled, like just murder

1772
01:37:30,479 --> 01:37:32,640
Speaker 2: a red barn and this this thing comes up like

1773
01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:36,120
Speaker 2: the Red Barn murder, which was like you know how

1774
01:37:36,160 --> 01:37:40,879
Speaker 2: many roads of the of the of seventeenth century British murders,

1775
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:45,000
Speaker 2: like it's been It's been remixed and resung and rewritten

1776
01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:47,960
Speaker 2: so many thousands of different times. It just was one

1777
01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:50,519
Speaker 2: of them that he hasn't done. Although he does a

1778
01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:54,599
Speaker 2: really there's a version of he does an old murder

1779
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:57,639
Speaker 2: ballad called two Sisters that pops up on orphans. That's

1780
01:37:57,680 --> 01:37:59,760
Speaker 2: a really so he has some familiarity with, like the

1781
01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:04,840
Speaker 2: whole British Irish murder ballad tradition. Anyway, I digress dirt

1782
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:09,160
Speaker 2: in the Ground, sung in his prince voice. I loved it.

1783
01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:10,800
Speaker 2: He says he can only do it for like one

1784
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:12,640
Speaker 2: or two songs. That's why you never hear him do

1785
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:14,880
Speaker 2: it live live is all the cookie monster stuff because

1786
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:16,880
Speaker 2: he can only do the falsetto for like one song

1787
01:38:16,920 --> 01:38:19,080
Speaker 2: at a time. And he said this is based on

1788
01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:22,760
Speaker 2: a pickup line that he heard from acclaimed though not

1789
01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 2: famed tenor saxophone as Teddy Edwards, who used to get

1790
01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:28,519
Speaker 2: girls to go up to his try and bring girls

1791
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:30,720
Speaker 2: back to his hotel room by saying, listen, darling, we're

1792
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:33,760
Speaker 2: all going to be dirt in the ground. I love

1793
01:38:33,800 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 2: it interesting enough. Another major theme on Bone Machine is

1794
01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:40,360
Speaker 2: the Bible. He talked about in the press kid how

1795
01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:43,080
Speaker 2: the Bible was like new to me, and I guess

1796
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:46,040
Speaker 2: he'd been going through it, particularly revelations. But all these

1797
01:38:46,080 --> 01:38:50,040
Speaker 2: different apocalyptic images that come upcross like earth Dyed Screaming

1798
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:53,639
Speaker 2: has a line about the locusts taking the sky Cane

1799
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:55,479
Speaker 2: and Abel are in Dirt in the ground, Murder in

1800
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:59,240
Speaker 2: the Red Barn. Literally quotes don't covet your neighbor's house,

1801
01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:02,519
Speaker 2: don't covert your nature, wife, Jesus gonna be here is

1802
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 2: just very obviously intent revival like Preacher mode. I love

1803
01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:09,240
Speaker 2: the line, and that song is like, because I've been

1804
01:39:09,360 --> 01:39:12,960
Speaker 2: so faithful except for drinking, but he knew that I would.

1805
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:16,800
Speaker 2: It's like such an eerily specific like ah, I get

1806
01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:19,920
Speaker 2: goosebumps thinking about it, and then all stripped down, which

1807
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:22,759
Speaker 2: is amazing because he says he got it from Jimmy Swaggered,

1808
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:26,840
Speaker 2: Jerry Lee Lewis's cousin. Yeah, the idea, He's like, I

1809
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:29,439
Speaker 2: wanted to make a song that sounded horny, like baby,

1810
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:32,400
Speaker 2: I need you all stripped down, But also like this

1811
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:36,679
Speaker 2: this Pentecostal idea of like you have to be stripped

1812
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:39,920
Speaker 2: completely clean before the Lord, like of all your sins

1813
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:43,640
Speaker 2: and all your memories and all your worldly issues like

1814
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:47,840
Speaker 2: when when when he comes again? You know? And then

1815
01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:50,439
Speaker 2: there's another great there's a there's a Shakespeare line in

1816
01:39:50,520 --> 01:39:55,200
Speaker 2: this on this album Black Wings, which I think of

1817
01:39:55,320 --> 01:39:58,200
Speaker 2: is his version of is the checker Checkerboard, kind of

1818
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:01,360
Speaker 2: part to Red Right Hand by Nick Cave, which is

1819
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:04,360
Speaker 2: just about like what sort of the genre of rambling

1820
01:40:04,479 --> 01:40:07,840
Speaker 2: badass like like Red right Hand is like just about

1821
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:09,839
Speaker 2: a guy who rolls through and he's like he's scary

1822
01:40:09,920 --> 01:40:12,360
Speaker 2: and he kills people, but there's no further specifics than that.

1823
01:40:12,479 --> 01:40:15,280
Speaker 2: And same with black Wings, where he's like, I'll see

1824
01:40:15,280 --> 01:40:18,240
Speaker 2: if I can do this. This homewaid sign, well, he

1825
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:20,559
Speaker 2: once killed him. They say he once killed a man

1826
01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:24,400
Speaker 2: with a guitar string. There are those who say that

1827
01:40:24,560 --> 01:40:30,320
Speaker 2: beneath his coat there are wings. It's so good. But

1828
01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:34,799
Speaker 2: he says, I'm gonna get myself unfurled from this mortal

1829
01:40:35,080 --> 01:40:39,439
Speaker 2: coiled up world, which is a really great internal rhyme

1830
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:42,040
Speaker 2: that flips the line from a Hamlet from the Sleep

1831
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:44,960
Speaker 2: of death. What dreams may come when we have shuffled

1832
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:48,080
Speaker 2: off this mortal coil? Love it? Sorry?

1833
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:50,080
Speaker 3: Okay, So.

1834
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:53,080
Speaker 2: I was by I had little hair in my mouth

1835
01:40:53,080 --> 01:40:55,759
Speaker 2: from getting real close on the microphone. A little asmr

1836
01:40:55,920 --> 01:41:02,760
Speaker 2: there for you. Tom Waite's like a boom.

1837
01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:04,120
Speaker 3: M.

1838
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:11,080
Speaker 2: So I brought up bout Dylan earlier, and I think

1839
01:41:11,080 --> 01:41:14,280
Speaker 2: it's interesting because you and I both know about Grail

1840
01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:17,960
Speaker 2: Marcus and the Old Weird America. Some of you's eyes

1841
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:21,880
Speaker 2: will roll and some of you will think it's legitimate.

1842
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:23,439
Speaker 2: I don't know where I'm going with this. So Grail

1843
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:27,360
Speaker 2: Marcus talks specifically about the Basement tapes and the band

1844
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:30,040
Speaker 2: and Bob Dylan's like sort of lyrical focus in the

1845
01:41:30,160 --> 01:41:32,880
Speaker 2: in the late sixties as memorializing and being concerned with

1846
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:35,479
Speaker 2: what he called the old Weird America, And that's his

1847
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:40,280
Speaker 2: shorthand for like pre industrial American culture basically like the

1848
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 2: from the ante bellum South up to the interstate system,

1849
01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:48,120
Speaker 2: you know, sort of like I mentioned earlier, like the

1850
01:41:48,240 --> 01:41:53,519
Speaker 2: itinerant carnivals, you know, touring tent revival preaching, like minstrel shows,

1851
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:58,280
Speaker 2: you know, like Flannery O'Connor kind of shit. But it's

1852
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:01,240
Speaker 2: just very interesting thinking that, you know, like I said,

1853
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:03,519
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan is like seven years older than Tom Waits,

1854
01:42:03,800 --> 01:42:06,679
Speaker 2: but Tom Waits didn't have a career until Bob Dylan

1855
01:42:06,760 --> 01:42:09,599
Speaker 2: had already had like seven personalities tucked away in his pocket.

1856
01:42:10,240 --> 01:42:12,479
Speaker 2: Because if you're charitably thinking of Tom Waits's early career

1857
01:42:12,560 --> 01:42:15,240
Speaker 2: is like seventy four seventy five, that's like already in

1858
01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:18,640
Speaker 2: a blood on the tracks. Yeah, you know, so it's

1859
01:42:18,680 --> 01:42:22,200
Speaker 2: like Dylan's already in his divorce era. But yeah, both

1860
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:25,320
Speaker 2: of their lyrics are very preoccupied with this interesting idea

1861
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:29,360
Speaker 2: of like what we lost when America became unified, like

1862
01:42:29,479 --> 01:42:35,320
Speaker 2: mass culture, you know, like roving gamblers and criminals, tinerant

1863
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:39,719
Speaker 2: laborers and all this folk like who do folklore, oral tradition,

1864
01:42:40,240 --> 01:42:44,400
Speaker 2: a lot of it being I think like Pan African

1865
01:42:45,439 --> 01:42:47,320
Speaker 2: superstition and stuff. It was all kind of coming from

1866
01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:50,600
Speaker 2: the Deep South. But the biggest difference between them is

1867
01:42:50,680 --> 01:42:54,840
Speaker 2: that Tom Waits California, so he fucking loves la and

1868
01:42:54,920 --> 01:42:58,880
Speaker 2: he loves cars. So it's so kindamn funny to me

1869
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:02,080
Speaker 2: to think that, like, you know, Bob Dylan's like here

1870
01:43:02,160 --> 01:43:04,920
Speaker 2: writing all these songs like about like free and free will,

1871
01:43:04,960 --> 01:43:09,000
Speaker 2: and Tom Waits is like, you know, fourteen in like

1872
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:11,680
Speaker 2: San Diego, and like, oh, yeah, this is great, but

1873
01:43:12,600 --> 01:43:18,320
Speaker 2: needs more cars. I just love this idea that you're

1874
01:43:18,360 --> 01:43:22,000
Speaker 2: getting at with the you know, the big Bill BRUNSI

1875
01:43:22,200 --> 01:43:25,360
Speaker 2: kind of covers and you know this, you're talking a

1876
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:27,960
Speaker 2: lot about canaan Abel and Jesus and then By and

1877
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 2: so forth. But have you thought about a big car

1878
01:43:32,720 --> 01:43:35,080
Speaker 2: just driving right down through all that because I have

1879
01:43:35,880 --> 01:43:37,519
Speaker 2: and this is I'm going down a limb here because

1880
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:38,960
Speaker 2: this is song is very personal to me, but I

1881
01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:41,679
Speaker 2: think it's very interesting. Tom Waits has this through line

1882
01:43:41,680 --> 01:43:43,400
Speaker 2: where he talks about he doesn't he doesn't talk very

1883
01:43:43,479 --> 01:43:46,280
Speaker 2: much about about religion, but he talks very much about

1884
01:43:46,360 --> 01:43:49,240
Speaker 2: like the state of forgiveness or like the state of grace.

1885
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:53,200
Speaker 2: And there are multiple songs that he kind of talks

1886
01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:58,000
Speaker 2: to talks about forgiveness or grace as being like a

1887
01:43:58,160 --> 01:44:01,439
Speaker 2: place that you can get to. There's parts about that

1888
01:44:01,640 --> 01:44:06,680
Speaker 2: on Bone Machine. But specifically, what I'm thinking of is

1889
01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:08,640
Speaker 2: this song called down There by the Train that he

1890
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:11,800
Speaker 2: actually wrote for Johnny Cash, and Johnny Cash covered it

1891
01:44:11,880 --> 01:44:14,760
Speaker 2: on one of the American records, and I don't like

1892
01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:19,160
Speaker 2: his version because it's like jaunty and Tom Waits's version

1893
01:44:19,200 --> 01:44:23,040
Speaker 2: is on piano and it's like heartbreaking, and it's this

1894
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:26,840
Speaker 2: really interesting He is this really interesting image of like

1895
01:44:28,040 --> 01:44:31,640
Speaker 2: this idea of not an afterlife per se, because he

1896
01:44:31,760 --> 01:44:34,680
Speaker 2: talks about there's this great couplet, there's no eye for

1897
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:36,880
Speaker 2: an eye, there's no tooth for a tooth. I saw

1898
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:41,040
Speaker 2: Judas is Scariot carrying John Wilkes Booth. They were down

1899
01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:43,280
Speaker 2: there by the train. There's no other way, he says.

1900
01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:47,759
Speaker 2: I saw Charlie Whitman hanging on to Lucifer's wings, Charlie

1901
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:51,920
Speaker 2: Whitman being the Tyra sniper, Yeah, the Texas Tower sniper.

1902
01:44:51,960 --> 01:44:55,839
Speaker 2: And so he has this beautiful image of like grace

1903
01:44:56,160 --> 01:44:58,439
Speaker 2: and forgiveness as a place that you can like go

1904
01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:03,000
Speaker 2: to and arrive at. Whereas Dylan, in like his writings

1905
01:45:03,000 --> 01:45:05,599
Speaker 2: about forgiveness and God, like I'm thinking of like God

1906
01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:08,120
Speaker 2: to serve somebody, but then you're also thinking about something

1907
01:45:08,160 --> 01:45:11,000
Speaker 2: that's completely stupid, like God gave name to all the animals,

1908
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:12,800
Speaker 2: which is one of the dumbest songs I've ever heard

1909
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:14,920
Speaker 2: in my life. Go google that one and see if

1910
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:17,599
Speaker 2: you still have respect for Bob Dylan. Ah. But God

1911
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:21,320
Speaker 2: to Serve somebody has this like sort of Protestant you

1912
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:25,240
Speaker 2: will toil and then you will die and your reward

1913
01:45:25,280 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 2: will be in the suite hereafter. I don't know. I

1914
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:29,479
Speaker 2: think there's something very interesting about the ways that they

1915
01:45:29,560 --> 01:45:34,200
Speaker 2: both kind of conceive of these just Cis white guys

1916
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:37,439
Speaker 2: from the Midwest in California. I both kind of come

1917
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:40,200
Speaker 2: around to this idea of forgiveness in God, but from

1918
01:45:40,280 --> 01:45:42,800
Speaker 2: very different angles, one of which has to do with transportation.

1919
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:45,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. You can cut that if that doesn't know.

1920
01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:45,720
Speaker 3: I love that.

1921
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:48,000
Speaker 2: But it's an interesting it's an interesting fixation I have

1922
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:50,360
Speaker 2: because he talks about eye for an eye, tooth for

1923
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:53,759
Speaker 2: a tooth in he literally says it, like in the Bible,

1924
01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:55,439
Speaker 2: there's eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. It's

1925
01:45:55,479 --> 01:46:00,400
Speaker 2: in something on bone machine maybe such a scream anyway,

1926
01:46:02,040 --> 01:46:04,160
Speaker 2: so I can talk about going out west coming up

1927
01:46:04,360 --> 01:46:08,880
Speaker 2: at the top. But aside from that song ruling and

1928
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:11,280
Speaker 2: there's a great video of him doing it on Arsenio

1929
01:46:11,439 --> 01:46:15,160
Speaker 2: where he's like singing through a bullhorn through a microphone

1930
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:17,680
Speaker 2: stand that is like half his height, so he's all

1931
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:20,280
Speaker 2: hunched over and stomping weirdly. It must have been the

1932
01:46:20,439 --> 01:46:25,120
Speaker 2: most insane thing that the Dog Pound had ever seenoo who,

1933
01:46:25,840 --> 01:46:29,960
Speaker 2: et cetera. But there's a really funny bit of like

1934
01:46:30,080 --> 01:46:33,599
Speaker 2: Tom Waite's lyrical connection here he says I'm going out

1935
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:37,439
Speaker 2: west because Tony Franciosa used to date my Ma. Tony

1936
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:39,920
Speaker 2: Franciosa is a is an actor who was at one

1937
01:46:39,960 --> 01:46:42,639
Speaker 2: point nominated for a Tony for being in the play

1938
01:46:42,720 --> 01:46:46,839
Speaker 2: A hat full of Rain and for a weights complete

1939
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:50,200
Speaker 2: this like me. There's a line on one of the

1940
01:46:50,320 --> 01:46:52,920
Speaker 2: B sides called long Way Home that he says, I

1941
01:46:52,960 --> 01:46:55,080
Speaker 2: got a hat full of lighting and a hatful of rain.

1942
01:46:56,120 --> 01:47:01,280
Speaker 2: So clearly Tom has a thing for the play Hatful

1943
01:47:01,320 --> 01:47:05,599
Speaker 2: of Rain and or Tony Franciosa. Anyway, the Olds eighty

1944
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:08,160
Speaker 2: eight in Going Out West, also Going Out West is

1945
01:47:08,200 --> 01:47:10,799
Speaker 2: so funny, man, I mean he has that. There's that lineup.

1946
01:47:11,320 --> 01:47:13,400
Speaker 2: First of all, I think gonna change my name to

1947
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:17,839
Speaker 2: Hannibal maybe just Rex is one of the greatest couplets

1948
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:22,160
Speaker 2: that you can have lyrically. But then secondarily, you know,

1949
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:24,680
Speaker 2: he says I got an Olds eighty eight and the

1950
01:47:24,760 --> 01:47:27,800
Speaker 2: Devil on a leash. I have to assume that is

1951
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:30,479
Speaker 2: a reference to the Oldsmobile eighty eight, which is, of

1952
01:47:30,560 --> 01:47:33,160
Speaker 2: course the car model car popular stock racers that the

1953
01:47:33,280 --> 01:47:35,600
Speaker 2: very first rock and roll song, Rocket eighty eight, is

1954
01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:38,960
Speaker 2: named for, and Waite it suppears to reinforce this in

1955
01:47:39,040 --> 01:47:41,439
Speaker 2: an interview with Reflects magazine in nineteen ninety two by saying,

1956
01:47:41,560 --> 01:47:44,519
Speaker 2: I figured let's do a rocker. So you see there

1957
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:48,400
Speaker 2: the connections are made between rocking and this old mobile

1958
01:47:50,200 --> 01:47:53,320
Speaker 2: and then he continued, we'll just slam it and scream,

1959
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:56,400
Speaker 2: and my wife said, no, this is about those guys

1960
01:47:56,400 --> 01:48:00,400
Speaker 2: who come to California from the Midwest with very specific ideas. Mind.

1961
01:48:01,320 --> 01:48:03,920
Speaker 2: That's how the line about Tony Francierosa fits. There are

1962
01:48:03,920 --> 01:48:05,960
Speaker 2: some people come to California with less than that to

1963
01:48:06,080 --> 01:48:08,479
Speaker 2: go on a phone number somebody gave them, you know,

1964
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:10,679
Speaker 2: for a psychic who used to work with Ann Margaret,

1965
01:48:11,120 --> 01:48:13,160
Speaker 2: And if I meet him, maybe I can get somewhere.

1966
01:48:13,200 --> 01:48:16,080
Speaker 2: Maybe if I play my cards right. That's very funny

1967
01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:18,679
Speaker 2: because she's from Illinois. She's from there's the Tom Waits

1968
01:48:18,720 --> 01:48:21,960
Speaker 2: song Johnsburg, Illinois is named for her hometown, so she

1969
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:25,200
Speaker 2: a Midwesterner from LA. Was like, no, you have to

1970
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:27,400
Speaker 2: write this song from the perspective of someone from the

1971
01:48:27,439 --> 01:48:30,599
Speaker 2: Midwest coming to LA to Tom Waits who's from San

1972
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:34,880
Speaker 2: Diego and idolized La growing up his entire life. And

1973
01:48:34,960 --> 01:48:37,000
Speaker 2: then that leads into Whistled Down the Wind. Yeah, I

1974
01:48:37,080 --> 01:48:40,400
Speaker 2: think is a fucking devastating song. As you write.

1975
01:48:40,439 --> 01:48:42,519
Speaker 1: It's another song that seems to have death in one

1976
01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:46,719
Speaker 1: hand and then idealize seemingly California based life in another.

1977
01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 1: Lyrics include lines like I grew up here all my life.

1978
01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:53,559
Speaker 1: I dream someday I'd go. Or the Blue Eyed Girls

1979
01:48:53,800 --> 01:48:58,880
Speaker 1: and the Red Guitars and the Naked Rivers. Flow Weights

1980
01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:03,000
Speaker 1: included the dedication for Tom Jans or Yahn's I Don't

1981
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:05,680
Speaker 1: Know a songwriter friend of he, and Brennan's noting in

1982
01:49:05,760 --> 01:49:09,520
Speaker 1: the press kit. Jans was from the Central coast of California,

1983
01:49:09,720 --> 01:49:12,000
Speaker 1: kind of a Steinbeck up bringing in a small town.

1984
01:49:12,600 --> 01:49:15,360
Speaker 1: He wrote Love in Arms, Dobie Gray recorded it, and

1985
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:18,839
Speaker 1: also Elvis did it. He used to play with Mimi Farina,

1986
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:24,880
Speaker 1: who was jum Bias's sister. Sure check me on that, No, s.

1987
01:49:27,200 --> 01:49:30,599
Speaker 2: I choose to believe you're correct. Yes, JOm Bias his sister. Yeah,

1988
01:49:32,080 --> 01:49:34,320
Speaker 2: she got married in Big Sir. Good for Moon Farina.

1989
01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:37,840
Speaker 1: But as you write for a gigantic nerd like you,

1990
01:49:38,760 --> 01:49:41,519
Speaker 1: the most interesting lyrical concern in Whistle Down the Wind

1991
01:49:41,680 --> 01:49:44,959
Speaker 1: is I will take the marlbin coach and go whistling

1992
01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:48,640
Speaker 1: down the wind. Marlbin coach is, according to some linguists,

1993
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:52,800
Speaker 1: a corruption of the phrase marrowbone coach that dates back

1994
01:49:52,800 --> 01:49:55,880
Speaker 1: to Victorian England. Marlbones were the shin bones of a

1995
01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:59,800
Speaker 1: horse or other hoofed mammal so taking the marrabone marleb

1996
01:49:59,800 --> 01:50:04,320
Speaker 1: bone coach, meant to hoof it somewhere, or walk like

1997
01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:08,679
Speaker 1: a bone machine, like cock me round like a bone machine.

1998
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:11,960
Speaker 2: Get it? Yes, yes, it's in the name of the album.

1999
01:50:12,160 --> 01:50:14,840
Speaker 2: God whistle down the wind just crush kills me. Man.

2000
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:21,559
Speaker 3: I grew up here all of my life. I dream

2001
01:50:21,880 --> 01:50:28,040
Speaker 3: someday I'd go with the blue eye purse and the

2002
01:50:28,320 --> 01:50:29,880
Speaker 3: Raid guitars.

2003
01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:33,719
Speaker 2: That's so good in my head. It kind of turns

2004
01:50:33,720 --> 01:50:37,080
Speaker 2: in the waltzing Matilda. They all turned into waltson Untila. Okay,

2005
01:50:37,080 --> 01:50:38,679
Speaker 2: I feel better now. I thought that was just making

2006
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:44,240
Speaker 2: or Tom Trowbear's blues and properly titled Yes, yes, yes

2007
01:50:45,080 --> 01:50:47,280
Speaker 2: have you ever heard him doud somewhere from the West

2008
01:50:47,320 --> 01:50:52,240
Speaker 2: Side Story? Excuse no? That's great.

2009
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:55,320
Speaker 1: Well, despite all of these naked allusions to murder and

2010
01:50:55,439 --> 01:50:58,680
Speaker 1: death and dying and killing, maybe the saddest song on

2011
01:50:58,720 --> 01:51:02,120
Speaker 1: this record is, on its face, the most jubulant, I

2012
01:51:02,200 --> 01:51:05,200
Speaker 1: Don't want to grow Up. When asked if the song

2013
01:51:05,320 --> 01:51:08,559
Speaker 1: was inspired by his kids, Waits answered, hey, they don't

2014
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:12,200
Speaker 1: want to grow up, but hey, I don't either, You know, Jesus,

2015
01:51:12,520 --> 01:51:15,280
Speaker 1: how the hell did it get here so soon. That's

2016
01:51:15,320 --> 01:51:17,880
Speaker 1: a cold shot. I was going to throw the song out.

2017
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:20,760
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to record it, but Kathleen said, oh no,

2018
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:21,920
Speaker 1: you've got to finish that.

2019
01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:24,840
Speaker 2: On a record where people are.

2020
01:51:24,720 --> 01:51:28,920
Speaker 1: Struggling against arriving at or helping others to death. The

2021
01:51:29,120 --> 01:51:32,679
Speaker 1: brady directness as you write is what makes it so poignant.

2022
01:51:33,360 --> 01:51:36,000
Speaker 1: Nothing clever or biblical to say about finding out what

2023
01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:41,320
Speaker 1: growing up means, just sheer, childlike indignation. That's what made

2024
01:51:41,360 --> 01:51:43,479
Speaker 1: it such a natural fit for being covered by the

2025
01:51:43,640 --> 01:51:47,920
Speaker 1: Ramones on their last record. Oh that was from audioska

2026
01:51:49,520 --> 01:51:52,760
Speaker 1: y Yes, Tom Waits repaid the favor by covering their

2027
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:56,880
Speaker 1: Danny Says and Return of Jackie and Judy, which appear

2028
01:51:57,000 --> 01:51:59,960
Speaker 1: on the Orphans box set. In fact, when you google

2029
01:52:00,080 --> 01:52:02,400
Speaker 1: I Don't Want to Grow Up plus Ramones, the first

2030
01:52:02,479 --> 01:52:06,040
Speaker 1: question in Google's people ask section is what is the

2031
01:52:06,240 --> 01:52:07,719
Speaker 1: saddest Romotes song.

2032
01:52:09,200 --> 01:52:11,080
Speaker 2: It's worth noting that one of the answers for that

2033
01:52:11,280 --> 01:52:15,280
Speaker 2: is pet Cemetery, which is my favorite remote song. I

2034
01:52:15,600 --> 01:52:21,760
Speaker 2: don't want to be bad, you know, pet Sem I

2035
01:52:21,920 --> 01:52:27,759
Speaker 2: don't won't live my life again. He sounds like Dracula?

2036
01:52:30,760 --> 01:52:33,080
Speaker 2: Is it got that? Like he's got that croon to him.

2037
01:52:34,200 --> 01:52:36,920
Speaker 2: He's like, as his voice deepened in later years, Oh

2038
01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:40,360
Speaker 2: so good. What else can I say about Bone Machine?

2039
01:52:41,080 --> 01:52:43,600
Speaker 2: Great record, great record. God, I don't want to grow up?

2040
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:46,080
Speaker 2: Just shatters me. Man, I don't want my hair to

2041
01:52:46,160 --> 01:52:48,240
Speaker 2: fall out. I don't want to have the biggest amount.

2042
01:52:48,760 --> 01:52:51,599
Speaker 2: I don't want to grow up. Why the hell? Oh God,

2043
01:52:51,680 --> 01:52:53,760
Speaker 2: there's that. Man, these I just this is just going

2044
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:57,040
Speaker 2: to turn into me reading all of these lyrics and

2045
01:52:57,120 --> 01:53:00,519
Speaker 2: then singing them. Yeah, it's so great. That's such a genius.

2046
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:04,960
Speaker 2: It's so sad because I'm trying to find these lyrics.

2047
01:53:05,120 --> 01:53:09,679
Speaker 2: It is so direct and so childish, Like he even says,

2048
01:53:09,760 --> 01:53:11,479
Speaker 2: I don't wanna like there were bones, Like I don't

2049
01:53:11,479 --> 01:53:12,800
Speaker 2: want to go sniff some glue. I don't want to

2050
01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:15,880
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. But then he just sneaks these little,

2051
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:20,360
Speaker 2: these little gut wrench lines in there, Like seems like

2052
01:53:20,520 --> 01:53:24,560
Speaker 2: folks turn into things that they'd never want. When I

2053
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:27,000
Speaker 2: see my parents fight, I don't want to grow up.

2054
01:53:27,280 --> 01:53:29,160
Speaker 2: They all go out drink it all night. I don't

2055
01:53:29,160 --> 01:53:31,519
Speaker 2: want to grow up. I'd rather stay here in my room.

2056
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:39,400
Speaker 2: Oh that feel co written by Keith Richards, takes one

2057
01:53:39,400 --> 01:53:43,080
Speaker 2: of the most most literal demonstrations of I forget who

2058
01:53:43,160 --> 01:53:46,080
Speaker 2: said this about him, Jordan who said that Keith Richards

2059
01:53:46,160 --> 01:53:48,040
Speaker 2: is the only singer who can sing in two keys

2060
01:53:48,080 --> 01:53:52,120
Speaker 2: at once. Oh, man, Oh, that's gonna bother me. I

2061
01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:56,880
Speaker 2: can't remember. Because his vocals on that feel, there's a

2062
01:53:56,960 --> 01:54:00,200
Speaker 2: great So there's a great line in mual variation and

2063
01:54:00,280 --> 01:54:03,479
Speaker 2: coming up to the house where he says, uh, you're

2064
01:54:03,520 --> 01:54:08,040
Speaker 2: singing lead soprano in a junk man's choir. And I

2065
01:54:08,160 --> 01:54:11,680
Speaker 2: believe that line is explicitly about Keith Richards, because you're

2066
01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:15,679
Speaker 2: here Keith Richards on this song last feel or that feel,

2067
01:54:15,800 --> 01:54:19,160
Speaker 2: and everyone sounds drunker than they've ever been in their life.

2068
01:54:19,920 --> 01:54:27,080
Speaker 2: And his reedy voice like sticks out so far. Oh,

2069
01:54:27,160 --> 01:54:30,160
Speaker 2: this is what's so stupid about God. This pisses me

2070
01:54:30,280 --> 01:54:33,360
Speaker 2: off so much. This is what's so dumb about Google AI.

2071
01:54:34,320 --> 01:54:37,240
Speaker 2: There is this quote that says he's the only sing

2072
01:54:37,400 --> 01:54:39,600
Speaker 2: I forget what journalists said, but Keith Ridgs is the

2073
01:54:39,680 --> 01:54:42,600
Speaker 2: only singer who can sing in two keys at once

2074
01:54:42,760 --> 01:54:45,440
Speaker 2: in a reference to his harmony vocals, and Google AI

2075
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:48,760
Speaker 2: says Keith Richards doesn't sing in two keys at once,

2076
01:54:48,920 --> 01:54:51,480
Speaker 2: but he does play guitar and open g tunings you

2077
01:54:51,560 --> 01:54:56,280
Speaker 2: can create which can create a fuller sound. Oh God,

2078
01:54:56,440 --> 01:55:01,640
Speaker 2: roll stupid country. Anyway, Bone Machine didn't much light the

2079
01:55:01,680 --> 01:55:04,120
Speaker 2: sales world on fire. It peaked at one seventy one

2080
01:55:04,160 --> 01:55:07,040
Speaker 2: of the Billboard two hundred and the highest it crept

2081
01:55:07,080 --> 01:55:10,440
Speaker 2: internationally was number fifteen in Norway. Has got to be

2082
01:55:10,480 --> 01:55:13,360
Speaker 2: pretty good until you realize that Norway has like two

2083
01:55:13,440 --> 01:55:19,080
Speaker 2: hundred people living in it. Only one single, Going Out West,

2084
01:55:19,280 --> 01:55:23,080
Speaker 2: was released, and that peaked at one sixty seven in Australia,

2085
01:55:25,880 --> 01:55:27,880
Speaker 2: but the album has aged very well. It's since been

2086
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:30,280
Speaker 2: named number forty nine on Pitchfork's Best Albums in the

2087
01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:33,600
Speaker 2: nineteen nineties. They placed it a slightly higher than Rolling Stone,

2088
01:55:33,640 --> 01:55:36,040
Speaker 2: who placed it at fifty three on their corresponding list

2089
01:55:36,080 --> 01:55:38,760
Speaker 2: of the same name. It has also be included on

2090
01:55:38,840 --> 01:55:41,160
Speaker 2: the one thousand and one albums You Must Hear Before

2091
01:55:41,200 --> 01:55:44,840
Speaker 2: You Die. Tom and Tom Waits's buddy and Jordan's also

2092
01:55:45,000 --> 01:55:48,040
Speaker 2: close friend Elvis Costello included it on his list of

2093
01:55:48,200 --> 01:55:51,600
Speaker 2: essential albums, highlighting A Little Rain and I Don't Want

2094
01:55:51,600 --> 01:55:54,120
Speaker 2: to Grow Up as his favorite. It also, as I

2095
01:55:54,200 --> 01:55:56,280
Speaker 2: mentioned at the top of this two hours one weighs

2096
01:55:56,320 --> 01:56:00,760
Speaker 2: his first Grammy for Best Alternative Album. So after releasing

2097
01:56:00,800 --> 01:56:03,200
Speaker 2: the material from Black Rider in nineteen ninety three, which

2098
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:06,040
Speaker 2: as I mentioned, had been written prior to Bone Machine,

2099
01:56:06,080 --> 01:56:09,480
Speaker 2: or at least concurrently, Waits took another long ass break

2100
01:56:09,600 --> 01:56:13,040
Speaker 2: from recording. He was in Mystery Men in the year

2101
01:56:13,080 --> 01:56:16,720
Speaker 2: two thousand. Also not what oh he is in Mystery Men.

2102
01:56:16,760 --> 01:56:19,200
Speaker 2: He's amazing in Mystery Man. He's their wacky inventor guy.

2103
01:56:19,240 --> 01:56:21,640
Speaker 2: But I thought that happened before Mule Variations. Mystery Event.

2104
01:56:22,160 --> 01:56:24,680
Speaker 2: Did that come out ninteen ninety nine or two thousand? Ooh,

2105
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:30,560
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, So yeah, he returned. He returned to

2106
01:56:30,680 --> 01:56:33,160
Speaker 2: the charts in nineteen ninety nine with Mule Variations. The

2107
01:56:33,240 --> 01:56:35,600
Speaker 2: same year he returned actually I think he'd been acting

2108
01:56:35,640 --> 01:56:37,000
Speaker 2: on and off, but the same year that he graced

2109
01:56:37,000 --> 01:56:41,720
Speaker 2: the silver screen in Mystery Men. Great movie. But this

2110
01:56:41,880 --> 01:56:44,440
Speaker 2: is what's so funny. Mule Variations also won a Grammy,

2111
01:56:45,040 --> 01:56:49,320
Speaker 2: but he won it in the Best Contemporary Folk Catalog

2112
01:56:49,400 --> 01:56:54,120
Speaker 2: of recording. So from Best Alternative to Best Contemporary Folk

2113
01:56:54,440 --> 01:56:58,400
Speaker 2: in six years. Is that's the Tom Waits promise, Life

2114
01:56:58,480 --> 01:57:03,440
Speaker 2: comes at you fast does another crushing record by the way,

2115
01:57:03,760 --> 01:57:10,600
Speaker 2: just a great, great record, great lackled that's a deep cut.

2116
01:57:10,720 --> 01:57:13,720
Speaker 2: That's uh, Paul Rudd is John Lennon. Yeah, in Walkhart

2117
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:20,640
Speaker 2: for all of you who have sex out there and

2118
01:57:20,800 --> 01:57:23,560
Speaker 2: didn't see that movie seventeen times while you're in college.

2119
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:25,480
Speaker 3: Umm. Yeah.

2120
01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:28,040
Speaker 2: So Tom Waits's mellow since Bow Machine. I think he's

2121
01:57:28,080 --> 01:57:32,320
Speaker 2: been I mean, maybe not lyrically like Blood Money and

2122
01:57:32,600 --> 01:57:36,640
Speaker 2: Alice or some incredibly dark albums. And then he was

2123
01:57:36,680 --> 01:57:40,080
Speaker 2: in a Robert I think he made a void check

2124
01:57:40,400 --> 01:57:47,200
Speaker 2: the the that's Werner Hertzog movie, but it was a play.

2125
01:57:47,520 --> 01:57:50,600
Speaker 2: Hang on, give me one second. Shut up, Jordan, Shut up. God,

2126
01:57:50,640 --> 01:57:53,560
Speaker 2: I can't hear myself think Jordan hasn't said anything in

2127
01:57:53,640 --> 01:57:57,200
Speaker 2: like ten minutes. I could have just done this myself.

2128
01:57:57,240 --> 01:58:00,840
Speaker 1: I'm just basking in it. I no, I'm I'm asking Ques.

2129
01:58:00,920 --> 01:58:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm the voice of the audience in this episode.

2130
01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:07,800
Speaker 2: Just me a lot of this. You had Tom Waits

2131
01:58:07,880 --> 01:58:12,880
Speaker 2: dated Bette Midler for a brief time. That actually sort

2132
01:58:12,920 --> 01:58:15,720
Speaker 2: of sounds familiar. There are a great song called I

2133
01:58:15,800 --> 01:58:19,080
Speaker 2: Never talked to I never talked to don't talk to strangers, Yeah,

2134
01:58:19,120 --> 01:58:22,680
Speaker 2: I never talked to strangers. Off foreign affairs, one of

2135
01:58:22,760 --> 01:58:29,120
Speaker 2: his most jazzy albums that I don't like, So New

2136
01:58:29,240 --> 01:58:32,840
Speaker 2: Variations comes out in nineteen ninety nine, and then Tom

2137
01:58:32,960 --> 01:58:35,080
Speaker 2: kind of gets into his current era of being the

2138
01:58:35,200 --> 01:58:39,520
Speaker 2: dad who doesn't really like touring or making records. He's

2139
01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:44,360
Speaker 2: made Alice, Blood Money, Real Gone, and Bad at Me,

2140
01:58:44,600 --> 01:58:46,960
Speaker 2: Bad Is Me. Alice and Blood Money were written around

2141
01:58:47,000 --> 01:58:48,880
Speaker 2: the same time. It's split up into two records, and

2142
01:58:49,040 --> 01:58:51,080
Speaker 2: Real Gone was two thousand and six and Bad as

2143
01:58:51,160 --> 01:58:53,200
Speaker 2: Me it was twenty eleven, So he was at like

2144
01:58:53,320 --> 01:58:57,760
Speaker 2: five or six years in between records and we might

2145
01:58:57,880 --> 01:59:01,080
Speaker 2: not get another one because he was more interested in

2146
01:59:01,560 --> 01:59:05,960
Speaker 2: shooting for five minutes in Licorice Pizza. Then he apparently

2147
01:59:06,040 --> 01:59:08,120
Speaker 2: wasn't making a new record because he has an amazing

2148
01:59:08,200 --> 01:59:12,200
Speaker 2: cameo in that movie. But I have sadly given up

2149
01:59:12,200 --> 01:59:13,920
Speaker 2: hope that I'll ever get to see him live, and

2150
01:59:14,160 --> 01:59:16,480
Speaker 2: probably also giving up hope that we'll ever hear another

2151
01:59:16,520 --> 01:59:19,680
Speaker 2: full length album. He's seventy five, but he also seems

2152
01:59:19,720 --> 01:59:24,320
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty. It's just great. I mean, I

2153
01:59:24,840 --> 01:59:26,840
Speaker 2: you know, his son Casey. Glitter and Doom is a

2154
01:59:26,920 --> 01:59:29,200
Speaker 2: great live record that he made from his Europe tour.

2155
01:59:29,560 --> 01:59:33,560
Speaker 2: But his son Casey played turntables and drums on real

2156
01:59:33,680 --> 01:59:36,720
Speaker 2: gone before like five years before that. He's just like

2157
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:38,800
Speaker 2: a family man. I don't know. I mean, I love him.

2158
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:43,520
Speaker 2: He's my guy. That's sadly, you know, we didn't really

2159
01:59:43,560 --> 01:59:47,200
Speaker 2: age into like amber wheat fields of grain, Tom, like

2160
01:59:47,400 --> 01:59:49,480
Speaker 2: pastoral Central Valley, California.

2161
01:59:49,560 --> 01:59:49,720
Speaker 3: Tom.

2162
01:59:49,760 --> 01:59:53,400
Speaker 2: We define the world definitely aged into like the craggy

2163
01:59:53,600 --> 01:59:58,280
Speaker 2: vistas and oil soaked valleys of bone Machine, you know,

2164
01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:02,240
Speaker 2: with a blood red horizon. That's the world we are

2165
02:00:02,280 --> 02:00:05,879
Speaker 2: actually living in. So in many ways he was quite prescient,

2166
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:13,520
Speaker 2: I might say, uh, But in summary, I'd like to

2167
02:00:13,560 --> 02:00:17,400
Speaker 2: wrap up with a quote from nineteen ninety two, when

2168
02:00:17,520 --> 02:00:20,760
Speaker 2: Tom was interviewed by Vox magazine in October of that

2169
02:00:20,920 --> 02:00:23,920
Speaker 2: year of Our Lord. The prompt was what does the

2170
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:27,400
Speaker 2: future hold? And Tom answered bustly, I think about the

2171
02:00:27,480 --> 02:00:31,320
Speaker 2: worms crawl in, the worms crawl out, the worms play

2172
02:00:31,440 --> 02:00:35,280
Speaker 2: peanutckle on your snout. A snake just crawled in your eye.

2173
02:00:35,400 --> 02:00:38,400
Speaker 2: I can't wait till the worms are eating me. That's

2174
02:00:38,440 --> 02:00:46,840
Speaker 2: a big dream, Well said Tom. Well said, no wonder,

2175
02:00:46,880 --> 02:00:49,400
Speaker 2: he's your guy. Thank you, folks. This has been This

2176
02:00:49,480 --> 02:00:55,560
Speaker 2: has been a this has been a solo performance. One

2177
02:00:55,640 --> 02:00:59,040
Speaker 2: Man's show. TMI on Tom Waite's Bow Machie of One

2178
02:00:59,120 --> 02:01:03,640
Speaker 2: Man Show. I'd like to thank my producer Jordan a

2179
02:01:03,760 --> 02:01:12,440
Speaker 2: stellar performance my script. Girl. No, I'm just kidding. Thank

2180
02:01:12,440 --> 02:01:15,000
Speaker 2: you as always for this is my even though it's

2181
02:01:15,000 --> 02:01:16,879
Speaker 2: only ten pages. This is my revolver.

2182
02:01:17,200 --> 02:01:17,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2183
02:01:17,640 --> 02:01:20,680
Speaker 2: Well, the asserted works of Tom Waite's or my Titanic,

2184
02:01:20,800 --> 02:01:23,360
Speaker 2: which I think we still broke two hours. I know

2185
02:01:23,720 --> 02:01:26,760
Speaker 2: you did most of that off the dome. Yeah. Well yeah,

2186
02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:29,320
Speaker 2: I mean that's where it's really troubling. I don't know

2187
02:01:29,360 --> 02:01:35,280
Speaker 2: I could talk about the variation sex. Uh down, Yeah,

2188
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:38,200
Speaker 2: I just you know. He actually used strove violins to

2189
02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:42,080
Speaker 2: record most of the strings on Alice's actually an early

2190
02:01:42,160 --> 02:01:47,880
Speaker 2: wave amplifying acoustic instruments where they literally attached little tin

2191
02:01:48,200 --> 02:01:51,960
Speaker 2: they look like the gramophone horns onto the bridges of

2192
02:01:52,120 --> 02:01:55,200
Speaker 2: violins to like amplify them in old time and music halls.

2193
02:01:55,320 --> 02:01:57,400
Speaker 2: He actually went and found those and recorded with them.

2194
02:01:58,280 --> 02:01:58,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2195
02:01:58,520 --> 02:02:04,160
Speaker 2: I owe a lot out of not sex to liking Tommy.

2196
02:02:07,920 --> 02:02:09,800
Speaker 2: It's like the Doomer meme, the meme of the girl

2197
02:02:09,880 --> 02:02:12,080
Speaker 2: with like bloodshot circles under eyes and a gun. Like

2198
02:02:12,200 --> 02:02:15,520
Speaker 2: I lied, we're not going to hook up. I'm gonna

2199
02:02:15,520 --> 02:02:18,720
Speaker 2: make you listen to Heart of Saturday Night, followed by

2200
02:02:18,800 --> 02:02:22,400
Speaker 2: rain Dogs, followed by Bone Machine while I expound on

2201
02:02:22,480 --> 02:02:26,400
Speaker 2: the relative lyrical progressions and production differences of each. I

2202
02:02:26,480 --> 02:02:32,720
Speaker 2: don't have Netflix door clicks, door clicks behind some like

2203
02:02:33,960 --> 02:02:37,480
Speaker 2: Terrified Brooklyn twenty something girl, and yet you're the one

2204
02:02:37,480 --> 02:02:39,800
Speaker 2: of the two of us is married. I know, I know.

2205
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:42,760
Speaker 2: It really is a cruel shock. I don't think I

2206
02:02:42,920 --> 02:02:51,360
Speaker 2: I low Is. I don't know where she sits on Low? Well, yeah,

2207
02:02:52,440 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 2: did I even make Did I ever play you Tom

2208
02:02:54,200 --> 02:03:00,600
Speaker 2: Waits when we were dating? She answered, which of the

2209
02:03:00,680 --> 02:03:06,520
Speaker 2: four hundred times are you referring to? So something took?

2210
02:03:06,680 --> 02:03:07,600
Speaker 2: We really should have.

2211
02:03:07,680 --> 02:03:09,560
Speaker 1: I feel like our listeners would be able to get

2212
02:03:09,560 --> 02:03:10,840
Speaker 1: to know you a lot better if we had low

2213
02:03:10,880 --> 02:03:12,200
Speaker 1: as a cameo every now and then.

2214
02:03:12,800 --> 02:03:18,320
Speaker 2: Don't give her a hot mic. Please don't take the

2215
02:03:18,440 --> 02:03:24,280
Speaker 2: last lingering shred of my dignity anyway, This has been

2216
02:03:24,320 --> 02:03:25,120
Speaker 2: too much information.

2217
02:03:26,120 --> 02:03:33,280
Speaker 1: Higel at night, I'm holding the microphone like Freddie Mercury, Right.

2218
02:03:33,280 --> 02:03:33,840
Speaker 3: You actually are?

2219
02:03:33,920 --> 02:03:35,520
Speaker 2: I love it? I love it, I love it. Join

2220
02:03:35,640 --> 02:03:38,240
Speaker 2: me next week when God? What else can I talk about?

2221
02:03:38,280 --> 02:03:40,400
Speaker 2: Off the dome? Like Tom Waits jazz?

2222
02:03:41,240 --> 02:03:41,440
Speaker 3: Yeah?

2223
02:03:41,560 --> 02:03:47,160
Speaker 2: The studio recordings of Tom Dowd. Oh wow, engineer extraordinary

2224
02:03:47,480 --> 02:03:52,240
Speaker 2: at at Atlantic, come on out of places. Well we

2225
02:03:52,360 --> 02:03:54,680
Speaker 2: move technique. We might do like a rolling stone in

2226
02:03:54,840 --> 02:03:58,240
Speaker 2: honor of that movie. I didn't think was that great. No, no,

2227
02:03:58,320 --> 02:04:00,200
Speaker 2: shut up for a second. One are a fascinate Any

2228
02:04:00,280 --> 02:04:03,280
Speaker 2: things I think about Tom doubt is how he would

2229
02:04:03,280 --> 02:04:06,120
Speaker 2: go to these extraordinary lengths to get an accurate Charles

2230
02:04:06,240 --> 02:04:09,720
Speaker 2: minguz bas sound. And then Mingus would just pick up

2231
02:04:09,720 --> 02:04:12,320
Speaker 2: his bass while he's playing and walk around the room

2232
02:04:13,120 --> 02:04:15,400
Speaker 2: or just like move it around and yell you hear

2233
02:04:15,400 --> 02:04:18,200
Speaker 2: all these like blown out bait. It's like these Rudy

2234
02:04:18,280 --> 02:04:21,480
Speaker 2: van Gelder's over there like filating himself in Englewood Cliffs,

2235
02:04:21,840 --> 02:04:25,160
Speaker 2: trying to get like an acoustically pure environment, and Charles

2236
02:04:25,280 --> 02:04:28,520
Speaker 2: Mingus is like banging his upright bass against a mic

2237
02:04:28,600 --> 02:04:31,480
Speaker 2: that Tom Dowd recorded. And you know what, those Tomdowd

2238
02:04:31,520 --> 02:04:34,040
Speaker 2: records sound fantastic. This is where you board feed me

2239
02:04:34,160 --> 02:04:37,760
Speaker 2: down now. Earlier we mentioned how to get a great

2240
02:04:37,880 --> 02:04:40,720
Speaker 2: Chicago harp sound, and the way you want to do

2241
02:04:40,800 --> 02:04:43,240
Speaker 2: that is you get a sure green bullet mic. You've

2242
02:04:43,240 --> 02:04:46,720
Speaker 2: talked about that rich earlier in this episode yes, no,

2243
02:04:47,360 --> 02:04:49,880
Speaker 2: I say, okay, Well, what I'd like to get into

2244
02:04:50,000 --> 02:04:53,560
Speaker 2: now is Peter Ivers, who wrote the song in Heaven

2245
02:04:53,640 --> 02:04:55,920
Speaker 2: from a racer Head. Now, Ivers, I don't know if

2246
02:04:55,920 --> 02:04:58,400
Speaker 2: you knew this. There's not a lot of people that

2247
02:04:58,520 --> 02:05:04,360
Speaker 2: know this. I first was a harmonica virtuoso. In like

2248
02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:09,840
Speaker 2: two years, that guy discovered and mastered Blues Heart to

2249
02:05:09,920 --> 02:05:20,880
Speaker 2: the Point Too Much Information was a production of iHeart Radio.

2250
02:05:21,160 --> 02:05:24,320
Speaker 2: The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtog.

2251
02:05:24,560 --> 02:05:28,000
Speaker 2: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June. The show

2252
02:05:28,160 --> 02:05:31,600
Speaker 2: was researched, written and hosted by Jordan Runtog and Alex Heigel,

2253
02:05:31,760 --> 02:05:34,960
Speaker 2: with original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2254
02:05:35,320 --> 02:05:37,360
Speaker 2: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2255
02:05:37,440 --> 02:05:37,920
Speaker 2: us a review.

2256
02:05:38,200 --> 02:05:42,480
Speaker 1: For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio Apple Apple Podcasts,

2257
02:05:42,760 --> 02:05:44,440
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.