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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney. Alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. We have been hearing

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Speaker 1: a lot about helping out businesses, small businesses, about helping

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Speaker 1: out marginalized businesses, women and minorities over the past couple

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Speaker 1: of days from the big gigantic bank CEOs on Capitol Hill. UM.

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Speaker 1: But they typically come out with surprisingly small numbers. Really, UM,

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Speaker 1: I guess Goldman Sachs is a really is a real exception.

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Speaker 1: They've been doing this ten thousand small business program for

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Speaker 1: our decade now. But Chris Saklakis joins us right now.

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Speaker 1: He's the CEO of a global nonprofit called Kiva, which

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Speaker 1: is really a micro financing business that aims at UM

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Speaker 1: marginalized business owners UM to raise and disperse crowdfunded loans. UM. Chris,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the program. Thanks for joining us. What a

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Speaker 1: time to be in this business. How did you get

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Speaker 1: into this because I know you came from the famous

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Speaker 1: online wine platform Vivino. Yeah. So I've been at Kiva

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Speaker 1: precisely one month in two days, so I'm very to it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, exactly so. Uh what I what I decided

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Speaker 1: when I left Vino was that I really liked technology

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Speaker 1: and online marketplaces, but I wanted I wanted to put

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Speaker 1: my expertise to better use, and I wanted to I

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Speaker 1: wanted to fulfill two things. One was to be a

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Speaker 1: positive role model for my sons, who are both teenagers,

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Speaker 1: and to work in the organization that actually has a

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Speaker 1: positive impact on people's lives. And so when Civa came along,

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Speaker 1: it was a perfect combination of those two things. We use.

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Speaker 1: We Kiva used technology through an online marketplace kiva dot org,

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Speaker 1: where lenders can come in UH and find information on

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Speaker 1: borrowers in the United States and around the world and

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Speaker 1: decide on how much they want to give as a loan,

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Speaker 1: And they can give as little as twenty five dollars

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Speaker 1: UH to fund a loan for someone in Cambodia who's

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Speaker 1: trying to buy seed for a farm, or someone in

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Speaker 1: the United States who's trying to establish a restaurant. So Chris,

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Speaker 1: You know, this pandemic obviously has been hugely disruptive, disruptive

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Speaker 1: to the entire planet, to the economics of the entire planet,

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Speaker 1: and particularly on small businesses, minority businesses, things like that.

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Speaker 1: So as you think about your company, your effort at Kiva,

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Speaker 1: how do you expect your business to change maybe going

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Speaker 1: forward as you probably interact with a lot of these

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Speaker 1: small businesses that have been impacted, Well, a lot of

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Speaker 1: what we're doing is continue knewing what we've done in

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Speaker 1: the past. We we made some big shifts during COVID

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Speaker 1: last year, but over the course of the fifteen year

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Speaker 1: history of Kiva, we have funded over one point five

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Speaker 1: billion dollars worth of loans to to nearly four million

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Speaker 1: people in seventy seven countries, and roughly ten percent of

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Speaker 1: what we've done over the last few years has gone

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Speaker 1: to businesses in the United States. The people we target

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Speaker 1: are people who traditionally aren't able to get loans. We

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Speaker 1: call them the unbanked, the people who don't have access

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Speaker 1: to financial services. And so as part of what we

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Speaker 1: did with COVID, we were available, we were able to

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Speaker 1: provide loans to people who would get rejected from other

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Speaker 1: banks people who couldn't get p PP loans, and so

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Speaker 1: very often those are minorities of black and Latin X

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Speaker 1: business owners women. UM. In fact, the vast majority of

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Speaker 1: the loans we do in the United States, UM are

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Speaker 1: too are two women and two people of color and immigrants. Right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how many times have I been in a

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Speaker 1: cab in New York City only to find out that

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Speaker 1: my driver is actually was a doctor when he was

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Speaker 1: working in Bulgaria or something crazy like that, UM, and

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Speaker 1: just doesn't have any credit or any access to the

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Speaker 1: financial system when he gets to the US. Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: So we we fund a lot of immigrants. Most of

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Speaker 1: our funding goes to entrepreneurs, people who are starting businesses

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Speaker 1: or who have businesses as who want to continue. And

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons Kiva was so resonant for me

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Speaker 1: is because my parents are immigrants. They immigrated from Greece.

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Speaker 1: When my dad came here, he really had nothing. He

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Speaker 1: started as a laborer in the steel mill. He eventually

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Speaker 1: became an apprentice with an electrician, became qualified electricians, started

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Speaker 1: his own electrical contracting business, and then started real listening

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Speaker 1: to the development. But he couldn't have started that business

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Speaker 1: or done his real estate development without access to capital,

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Speaker 1: without a loan. And so the loans that you give

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Speaker 1: to small businesses with Kiva resonate with me because they

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Speaker 1: go to entrepreneurs just like my dad. Chris gives a

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Speaker 1: sense just briefly about thirty seconds, kind of the financial

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Speaker 1: returns for the folks that do crowds fund these loans.

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Speaker 1: How's how's it worked out. Yeah, So if you're a

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Speaker 1: lender on Kiva, it's a zero interest, zero percent interest loan,

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Speaker 1: but there's the repayment rate historically has been so if

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Speaker 1: you put in a hundred dollars today, over the course

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Speaker 1: of the next two years, you'll get ninety six dollars back,

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Speaker 1: and then you can re lend that money if you want.

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Speaker 1: So relative to a donation, Uh, this is this is

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Speaker 1: a loan. The money comes back and then you can

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Speaker 1: re lend it. If you keep the money in the

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Speaker 1: Kiva system for a period of four or five years,

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Speaker 1: that hundred dollars could result in five hundred, six hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars worth of loans back to people who needed That's

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Speaker 1: very ingenious. I was trying to think about how the

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Speaker 1: economics of that work, and you should do a reverse

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Speaker 1: repo facility. You know, the FED got I think four

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Speaker 1: eight six billion dollars at zero present yesterday from like

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Speaker 1: fifty banks. Um. No, it's a fascinating business, and yours

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Speaker 1: is I think a really interesting story. Chris. So, it's great,

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Speaker 1: um to have smart people like you doing this kind

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Speaker 1: of good work to help. You know, other people out

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Speaker 1: there just want to get a lug up, just need

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Speaker 1: to get into the system. Chris Sokolochus, there is the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Kiva. This is Bloomberg. Are bringing Laurence sour

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Speaker 1: right now, Associate Professor of Emergency Medicine at Johns Hopkins

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Speaker 1: School of Medicine, And Lauren, I got a question. I've

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Speaker 1: always thought about this, and I think because of the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: I finally know the answer, but I want to hear

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Speaker 1: it from you. You know, there've been anti vaxers around forever,

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Speaker 1: and I always thought, like, who cares if their kids

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Speaker 1: aren't vaccinated? As long as my kids are. Now, the

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Speaker 1: same question is coming up in terms of COVID, like

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Speaker 1: if of the public doesn't get vaccinated, does it matter

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Speaker 1: to the six of us that does. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I definitely think it matters because I think we have

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Speaker 1: this sort of social contract and depending on the thresholds

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Speaker 1: that people that people are looking at, it changes how

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Speaker 1: safe it is to reopen and be in public, And

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Speaker 1: especially with the disease like this, where we don't actually

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Speaker 1: know what reinfection is going to look like and what

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Speaker 1: the potential future threats are UM, the more people getting

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Speaker 1: vaccinated can only be better. When you think about people

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Speaker 1: who are sort of anti vacts and UM, especially in

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Speaker 1: the pediatric population, they're making decisions for kids who don't

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Speaker 1: have sort of a say in that process, and on

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Speaker 1: top of that before they were born. Yeah, that's true. UM,

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Speaker 1: but there are kids who and kids and teachers and

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Speaker 1: parents and family members of those kids who are not

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Speaker 1: vaccinated who can't get vaccinated for various reasons. They may

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Speaker 1: have a vaccine allergy, or they may have an immune

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Speaker 1: compromise situation or UM. You know, there's several reasons why

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Speaker 1: people may not be able to get vaccinated, and so

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Speaker 1: then you're putting those people at risk. So that's a

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Speaker 1: good point. In fact, I read a story I think

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Speaker 1: maybe it was in the Times about UM. For example,

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Speaker 1: people who have received organ transplants UM aren't really aren't

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Speaker 1: able to be vaccinated or the vaccine doesn't work as

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Speaker 1: well for them. My theory had been this, Lauren, I thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, what do I care if somebody in the

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Speaker 1: bar isn't vaccinated and has COVID. As long as I am,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to get it. But what I was

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Speaker 1: thinking is maybe if too much, if too many people

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Speaker 1: don't get vaccinated, then the virus lives on and it

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Speaker 1: you takes into something even crazier, and then it overtakes

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Speaker 1: my vaccine power. Yeah, I think that's always a risk.

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Speaker 1: I mean, mutations, variants are are going to continue to

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Speaker 1: be a risk and um, and you could have a

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Speaker 1: situation like we don't know about sterilizing immunity as as

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Speaker 1: much as we want to yet, right, So you could

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Speaker 1: have a situation where you're on the tail end of

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Speaker 1: meeting another vaccination, you get a low grade infection from

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Speaker 1: that person and and it does overtake your vaccine, or

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Speaker 1: you take very low grade infection that you may not

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Speaker 1: even know that you have to someone else. And so

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Speaker 1: there's there's situations where this chain of events happens, putting

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Speaker 1: people who have no choice in the matter at risk.

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Speaker 1: And that's where we want to really target, UM, bringing

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Speaker 1: people who are not interested currently to getting vaccinated to

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Speaker 1: the table and say what's stopping you, what's holding you back?

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Speaker 1: What can we do to support bringing you to the

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Speaker 1: vaccine table. How about something that's maybe even I think simpler,

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Speaker 1: which is simply masking Here in New York, so I

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Speaker 1: guess we're we've had a week or two of you

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Speaker 1: don't have to mask indoor? Uh In New Jersey. As

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Speaker 1: of today where I live, you don't have to mask

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Speaker 1: indoor and you can actually stand at a bar and

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Speaker 1: have a drink. I think, God forbid. What are your thoughts,

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Speaker 1: Lauren about masking indoors? Let's just let' let's assume the

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Speaker 1: outdoors is you know, that's pretty clear, clear cut. But

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Speaker 1: what do you think about indoors? Yeah? For me, I

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Speaker 1: think the risk is still high enough. My personal opinion

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Speaker 1: is that I would so mask indoors wherever possible. UM.

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Speaker 1: I think in general, we've relaxed these indoor mask mandates

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Speaker 1: too soon. We're getting really close, and I think everyone's

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Speaker 1: just so excited to you know, quote unquote get back

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Speaker 1: to normal that they're willing to let their guard down.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is where we get into a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a high risk situation, and and masking

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Speaker 1: is not you know, it's it's not that hard to do,

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Speaker 1: and it is a simple step that we can take

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Speaker 1: to protect ourselves and protect those other people that we

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Speaker 1: were just talking about, you know. And so for me,

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Speaker 1: I would like to see the mask the masking continue indoors,

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Speaker 1: especially in those more crowded locations, until we get to

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Speaker 1: those higher vaccinated levels. You know. Um, we're finally starting

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Speaker 1: to look at the most at the simplest possible explanation

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Speaker 1: for how this virus um got started at a market

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Speaker 1: in Wuhan, down the street from a coronavirus lab in Wuhan.

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Speaker 1: But even if the quote unquote conspiracy area's proved true,

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Speaker 1: does it really matter where it came from to the

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Speaker 1: medical field? Do you need those details? No? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think I think it matters to some people, and

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Speaker 1: I think there's always an interest in exploring origins, But

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Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to get there with some

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Speaker 1: targeted um exploration of whether or not this is a

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Speaker 1: cover up, or whether or not the origins were because

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Speaker 1: of some some purposeful or unintentional things that happened in

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Speaker 1: a lab. You know that we don't need that information

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Speaker 1: to improve our response the next time we have a pandemic.

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Speaker 1: We don't need that information to take care of these patients.

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Speaker 1: We don't need that information clearly to build vaccines, to

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Speaker 1: build therapeutics. What we need is to focus those efforts

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Speaker 1: on how we get out of this pandemic and how

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Speaker 1: we move move the global health forward to be able

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Speaker 1: to prepare for the next one. And that's not through

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Speaker 1: an origins discussion. Lauren, thank you so much once again

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Speaker 1: for join as you do every week, and we really

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Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Laurence Sour, Social Professor of Emergency Medicine

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Speaker 1: at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. We should note that

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg School of Public Health is supported by Michael

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Speaker 1: Are Bloomberg found Our, Bloomberg LP, Bloomberg Philanthropies, and this

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Speaker 1: radio operation. Cities across the United States and the state

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Speaker 1: of California, they're starting to make a case for local reparations.

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Speaker 1: Are good. Folks at Bloomberg Business Week took a deep

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Speaker 1: dive one of those cities. Susan Burfield. Burfield, Senior investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter for Bloomberg Business Week, uh and also the author

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Speaker 1: of The Hour of Fate, Theodore Roosevelt, JP Morgan, and

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Speaker 1: the Battle to Transform American Capitalism. So thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us here. You guys took a look at

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Speaker 1: this whole reparation's issue as it relates to a small

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Speaker 1: town of Evanston, Illinois. What did you guys find? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so thanks so much for having me on. So Evanston,

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Speaker 1: Illinois is um uh, as you said, a small city

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Speaker 1: just north of Chicago, and UM, it has the distinction

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Speaker 1: of being the first city in the US to offer

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Speaker 1: reparations to its black residents, and UM, the first kind

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Speaker 1: of effort that it's making, UM is to redress the

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Speaker 1: housing discrimination UM that many black residents faced beginning as

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Speaker 1: far back as nineteen nineteen. I'd say that I absolutely

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Speaker 1: loved the story, Susan. It was really the kind of

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Speaker 1: it was like a book you just can't put down.

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Speaker 1: I was taking care of my baby and trying to

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Speaker 1: feed her bottle, and I just I couldn't really do

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Speaker 1: anything until I no, I mean, I just I I

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Speaker 1: noticed that she couldn't distract me. I was. I found

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Speaker 1: it really fascinating And at first, you know, it starts

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Speaker 1: out really disturbing, because, Um, I was reading about Lucia's

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Speaker 1: Sutton at the very beginning, and I was thinking, how

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Speaker 1: is this possible, this kind of injustice in you know,

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Speaker 1: the nineteen hundreds, that's my century. I could have imagine

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Speaker 1: it happening in the eighteen hundreds. But it's just, Um,

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Speaker 1: it's something everyone should read, even people who have been

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Speaker 1: have become kind of numb to the social justice and

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Speaker 1: the Congressman we're talking about woke capitalism. But when you

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Speaker 1: read this, you can understand why it's worth fighting for. Um.

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Speaker 1: The one thing I kept thinking to myself, Susan, is yes,

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Speaker 1: you run into these real problems, especially on the local level,

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Speaker 1: and you make this point in the story, if it's

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Speaker 1: done on a federal level, it would be you'd have

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Speaker 1: less you'd have fewer problems. Right. Yeah. Well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: just thanks so much for the kind words about the story. UM.

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Speaker 1: It was been a wonderful privilege really to be able

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Speaker 1: to spend so much time on it, um and with

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Speaker 1: people in Evanston, so um it kind of makes me

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Speaker 1: want to move to Evanston. It's a beautiful place and

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Speaker 1: they're good apparently good that they're good people. For the

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Speaker 1: most part, right, they if they're taking this on, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're trying to do the right thing. And you know,

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Speaker 1: to your question, UM, you know, at the local level, UM,

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Speaker 1: at it. You know, in a city like Evanston or

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Speaker 1: in any city in the US, UM, there are always

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Speaker 1: going to be different points of view about what reparations

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Speaker 1: should look like at the local level, you know, and

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Speaker 1: part of that is kind of what kind of discrimination

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Speaker 1: or injustice to take on. First, how much money any

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Speaker 1: city is going to be able, uh to to use

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Speaker 1: to essentially you know, pay down the debt it owes

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Speaker 1: to its black residents. UM. And you know, just the

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Speaker 1: nature of city government or even state government. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's UM lots of opportunities for people to comment, so

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Speaker 1: you can hear very directly from lots of people. UM.

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Speaker 1: And you know, at the national level, UM, there's been

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Speaker 1: uh increasing MOMENTUM might say, UM ward the discussion. You know,

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Speaker 1: so the cities are taking it many steps further than

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Speaker 1: what's happening on the national level. But there is at

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Speaker 1: least the discussion. You know, there is UM. There are

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Speaker 1: studies that would help calculate how much reparations should be UM.

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Speaker 1: And of course that's chillions of dollars, and in Evanston

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Speaker 1: we're talking about millions of dollars. How does the process

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Speaker 1: actually work if someone feels that they are due reparations,

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Speaker 1: how's the process work? So in Evanston, UM, the first

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Speaker 1: round of money, which is about four hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: UM and is going to be given out to recipients

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Speaker 1: this summer. UH and essentially anyone who lived in Evanston,

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Speaker 1: any black residents who lived in Evanston from nineteen nineteen

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Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty nine UM. That's the year after the

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Speaker 1: federal government passed the Fair Housing Act. So if you

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Speaker 1: lived in evans Been during that time, you're eligible and

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Speaker 1: you're given first priority. Second priority is to the descendants

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Speaker 1: of those people, and third priority is to a resident

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Speaker 1: who moved or lived in Evanston after that and can

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Speaker 1: show that they faced discrimination. It's hard for me, UM

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Speaker 1: to be flippant about this, because when you read about

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Speaker 1: the Cannon family, the Simmons family, what happened to the

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Speaker 1: Sutton family. UM, you just have to take it seriously.

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Speaker 1: But being flippant is in my nature, and I want

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Speaker 1: to say that it seems like the best thing you

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Speaker 1: can do for social justice. If you visit Evanston is

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Speaker 1: by weed, right, I mean because the first the money

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Speaker 1: that they're getting comes from the three percent cannabis tax

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Speaker 1: and they've only got one weed vendor in town. So

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Speaker 1: if you do go there, stop by and get yourself

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Speaker 1: a pre rolled joint or something. Yes, well you're not

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Speaker 1: the only one. The Alderman as they're called, Derek City

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Speaker 1: Council member UM who came up with the idea UM.

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Speaker 1: She's no longer serving, but I spoke to her while

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Speaker 1: she was still in office and her message was, you know,

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Speaker 1: come to Evanston and pleased buy drugs. Robin Ruth Simmons

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Speaker 1: was that it was the Alderman now, uh, well that

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Speaker 1: was Anne Rainey. Robin Ruth Simmons though UM is the

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Speaker 1: one who first proposed reparations UM idea UM and then

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Speaker 1: you know, worked with some other city council members to

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Speaker 1: help create it UM. And it was Anne Rainey who

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Speaker 1: came up with the idea of using the money from

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Speaker 1: this new tax, you know, money that was unclaimed UM

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Speaker 1: that they calculated would bring in about a million dollars

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Speaker 1: a year, and then they devoted UM the first ten

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Speaker 1: million dollars UM to the program, and you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: that will take ten years to pless maybe less well

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Speaker 1: hopefully UM, well they can raise those taxes a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I think everyone will be willing to pay a little

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Speaker 1: bit more UM for their for a good weed. But

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Speaker 1: I have to say now for you, as as senior

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Speaker 1: investigative report or UM, you may not notice, but as

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Speaker 1: for a regular person, the history that these people have discovered,

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Speaker 1: the research that they've put in to to go back three,

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Speaker 1: four or five generations and get you know, titles and

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Speaker 1: deeds and the stories that they have the story just

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Speaker 1: for that to me is worth it UM. I love

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Speaker 1: the family history that that they have discovered that you've

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Speaker 1: reported here. Susan, thanks so much for joining us UM.

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Speaker 1: Susan Bearfield and Jordan Holman wrote the story first US

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Speaker 1: City Too Back Reparations meets hard Reality. Now let's delve

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Speaker 1: into crypto. I don't think we've mentioned bitcoin at all today.

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Speaker 1: Paul or Doge or ether or Tether. Mike mcgloan joins

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Speaker 1: US Commodities Strategists for Bloomberg Intelligence on crypto UM. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the volatility has been amazing, but the lineup of guests

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Speaker 1: that we've had, Mike has been insane of the last week.

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Speaker 1: I have interviewed uh Nick Carter, who is a brilliant

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Speaker 1: writer from Castle Island Ventures, Sam Bankman Freed, who is

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Speaker 1: one of the richest people in America now and he's

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Speaker 1: only twenty nine. It's got like forty billion dollars in

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Speaker 1: crypto And Bobby Lee, who is a pioneer in the

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Speaker 1: space UM. He started BTC China and now has a

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Speaker 1: really cool UM hardware wallet out. Uh, Mike, what what

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Speaker 1: are your what's your current thinking on bitcoin? Is? We've

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Speaker 1: gone through these wild up and down swings. Is it

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Speaker 1: gonna Is it here to stay? The volatility for right now?

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Speaker 1: Are are we getting past it? Well? Hey, man, I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you mentioned some very smart people that I list

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Speaker 1: basically enjoyed those interviews, and I think the key thing

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Speaker 1: to think about in cryptos is it's a bool market

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Speaker 1: that's corrected. Got way too excited and I'm one of

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Speaker 1: the people got suckered into. What really brought me and

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Speaker 1: we thought it would continue up was when valtily dropped

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Speaker 1: sixty dave out and bitcoin dropped to the lowest of

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Speaker 1: the year right before the claps. It was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: typically that means it's going to go higher. So it

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Speaker 1: was a sign that was just way too much spec

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Speaker 1: to exus is you know the minute that dose coin

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Speaker 1: got in SATURNI live, that was the bell ringing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's look back now, let's look forward. Right now, Ethereums

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Speaker 1: up two on the year. The Bloomberg Galaxy Crypto index

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Speaker 1: is up a hundred percent. Bitcoins up, bitcoins add the

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Speaker 1: rest of the space. Ethereum is a stud and but

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Speaker 1: I think that's that that appreciates is going to continue

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Speaker 1: because the fundamental underpinions are still quite strong. How about

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Speaker 1: the regulatory overhang, it's beginning to build here. We've seen

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Speaker 1: some central bankers, including some folks in China. How do

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Speaker 1: you think about that. Yes, that's the key thing point

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Speaker 1: you brought that in there, and the key thing that

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Speaker 1: Kathy would said. There's just not much you can do

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Speaker 1: to really regulate bitcoin anymore. It's the world's largest decentralized network.

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Speaker 1: It's open source software. So China his his. What China

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Speaker 1: did recently, I think it's a good indication of how

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Speaker 1: significant bitcoin is now here. We have a country that

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Speaker 1: had let's not have I mean, it's becoming a surveillance state,

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Speaker 1: doesn't have free full capital, certainly doesn't have a discourse,

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Speaker 1: and they have to limit their their people from from

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Speaker 1: Winnie the Pooh and from the Internet, so they have

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Speaker 1: to limit Bitcoin and they have to limit flow of capital.

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Speaker 1: So that's a significant sign. But it's also what's going

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Speaker 1: to really tilt the US, I think to embrace it

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Speaker 1: more because there's a cold war that's really brilliant and

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Speaker 1: getting more and more. And that is what's I pointed

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Speaker 1: out on the crypto chat this morning, is it's the

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Speaker 1: digitalization of money. It's enhancing dollar dominance. The most widely

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Speaker 1: traded crypto on the planet is tether. I've mentioned this before.

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Speaker 1: It's double the volume of Bitcoin, and it's a digital dollar,

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Speaker 1: and it's an ethereum token. So key things there. Dollars

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Speaker 1: dominating ethereums gaining dominant theorems that significant, and the US

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Speaker 1: is probably gonna say, oh, we also have to do

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Speaker 1: is nothing here and we're beating China and the world

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Speaker 1: and this big battle against the two major powers. Is

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Speaker 1: there any um crypto token that you think is ideal

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Speaker 1: for spending Because my idea is somethings gonna come along

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Speaker 1: where people say, you know what, I don't care if

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Speaker 1: a regulator embraces this. I don't care if some central

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Speaker 1: bank says stay away and I'm gonna use this and

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Speaker 1: get around the system. The problem is, right now, it's

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Speaker 1: too difficult to do that with bitcoin because it's so

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Speaker 1: hard to spend. I'll be sarcastic tether. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: a digital dollar, I'll be honest. The digital the global

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Speaker 1: reserve currency is the dollar, and it's gaining dominance despite

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Speaker 1: the fact US GDPs of client because after what's happened

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Speaker 1: in China and Hong Kong, the world SE's okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: it's not the best place in the world. It is

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Speaker 1: not the best, but the dollar is the best place,

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Speaker 1: the best thing to transact. And then there's this global

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Speaker 1: digital reserve asset. Now it used to be gold was

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Speaker 1: the digital store value. It's becoming more and more bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: So I think for spending dollars, it's actually gaining in

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Speaker 1: terms of digitalization. And as far as actually spending, it

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Speaker 1: depends what you mean by that. The key thing that's

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Speaker 1: really happening globally is a lot of third world countries

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Speaker 1: or countries with don't have stable currencies like we are

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Speaker 1: blessed with are all turning to cryptos and they can

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Speaker 1: do it on their phones, and they're getting phones because

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Speaker 1: they're leap frogging that technology. They might ahead of the

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Speaker 1: wires to running the electricity out in rural India or

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Speaker 1: world sub Sahara, Africa, but they can do They're getting

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Speaker 1: fun So that's happening everywhere. So like, what what's the

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Speaker 1: bigcoin chat? Why am I not on this? I'll get

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Speaker 1: you on the cryptot Please don't. I don't think you

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Speaker 1: want to invite him in here. You need to be

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Speaker 1: on that because Matt, you're so funny. But I'll be

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Speaker 1: in the on Saturday morning tomorrow morning and hopping on

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Speaker 1: a plane to go to Miami for the bitcoin conference.

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Speaker 1: It is supposed to be the biggest one on the

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Speaker 1: plan and it's live, it's not virtual. Where there you go?

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Speaker 1: All right, here you go. Don't need masks when I

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Speaker 1: go to Miami Beach. I don't go to a bitcoin conference. Post.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever

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00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Matt Miller three, pet On ball Sweeney, I'm on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always

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Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio