1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised. There are 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: a few different Thomas Edward Lawrences. The first Thomas Edward 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: Lawrence is the one the public knew. He first became 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: famous in his own lifetime thanks to a popular lecture 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: series about his contributions during World War One. He later 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: had a full length feature film made about him that 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: went on to win the Oscar for Best Picture. Maybe 9 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: you've heard of it, Lawrence of Arabia. He was a 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: hero who made sacrifices and put himself through hardship, all 11 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: in the name of Arab sovereignty and for the love 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: of his fellow soldiers. The second Thomas Edward Lawrence is 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: the one that he personally chose to present to the world. 14 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: He wrote an autobiography that was well received by the public. 15 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: In it, he exaggerated somewhat about his accomplishments, but he 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: was also honest about the nuances behind his motivations for 17 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: fighting in the Middle East. To begin with this, Thomas 18 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: Edward was friends with George Bernard Shaw and advised Winston 19 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: Churchill briefly. Perhaps the least known Thomas Edward Lawrence is 20 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: the real one. This one grew up somewhat ashamed of 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: his unwed parents and acted out against his mom because 22 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: of it. He might have been queer, maybe even asexual, 23 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: but he never declared his interests one way or another. 24 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: He had big hopes and dreams for himself, and even 25 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: though he accomplished so much, he didn't necessarily feel as 26 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: though he lived up to his goals. This Thomas Edward 27 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: was only truly known by one person himself, if at all. 28 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: Of course, in reality, all of these different Lawrences are 29 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: the same person. They're all the famous Lawrence of Arabia. 30 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: But being so famous, with so many people, even himself 31 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: interpreting and translating his story for the world, there were 32 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: so many different versions of T. E. Lawrence. Most of 33 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: us know him as the swashbuckling hero from the famous 34 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two film. The striking image of his face 35 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: outfitted with a white head covering against the desolate Wadi 36 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: Rum desert might be the first thing you imagine when 37 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: you hear Lawrence of Arabia. Even six decades after the 38 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: movie's premiere and almost a century after the man's death, 39 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: Lawrence of Arabia as a character remains prominent in our culture. 40 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: His image persists in collective memory, even if we've forgotten 41 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: why he was in Arabia to begin with, or whether 42 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: or not he was even a real person. So who 43 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: was Lawrence of Arabia? Who was the real man behind 44 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: the hero? Behind every great man, every name widely known 45 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: and recognized, is the real person? Full of flaws, nuances 46 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: and mortality? In this episode, we'll explore the real man 47 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: and the real history behind the famous Lawrence of Arabia. 48 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: T e. Lawrence. If it's possible to know the real 49 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: man at all, I'm Dana Schwartz and this is noble Blood. 50 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: Like a few other great figures we've covered on Noble Blood, 51 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: Lawrence was not actually destined from birth to become an 52 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: important historical actor. In fact, quite the opposite. Lawrence was 53 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: the illegitimate son of Thomas Chapman, a minor Irish noble 54 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: with the title of Baronet of Kilawa Castle in County Westmouth, Ireland, 55 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: and Sarah Junior, the governess of Thomas's daughters with his 56 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: first wife. Thomas never claimed his baronetcy in Ireland and 57 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: instead left his first family and lived out of wedlock 58 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: with Sarah and the five boys they would have together. 59 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: Te Lawrence was their second child, born in eighteen eighty eight, 60 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: and of his siblings, Lawrence was the most mischievous and 61 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: strong willed, traits that would benefit him later in life. 62 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: During his time in the Middle East, what originally took 63 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: Lawrence to Arabia was actually an interest in archaeology, a 64 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: fascination that blossomed in his teenaged years while he was 65 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: living in Oxford. Biking around Oxford and the surrounding countryside, 66 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: Lawrence and his friend would collect archaeological artifacts. They would 67 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: then submit their findings, typically glass fragments or rubbings of 68 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: medieval tombs, to the Ashmolean Museum. Lawrence took his archaeologically 69 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: driven cycling to the next level when he was in 70 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:23,119 Speaker 1: college at Oxford University, when he toured France by bike 71 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: to research medieval castles. Continuing to venture further from home 72 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: and into the region that he would later become almost 73 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: synonymous with, Lawrence then undertook a three month walking tour 74 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: of Syria studying Crusader castles. Just like everyone here at 75 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: Noble Blood, Lawrence was a bit obsessed with the Middle Ages, 76 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: as evidenced by his various tours across the Mediterranean, as 77 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: well as his extensive knowledge of medieval clothing. For that 78 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: reason alone, we have to love him a little bit. 79 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: Lawrence became a working archaeologist in nineteen ten when a 80 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: keeper at the Ashmolean Museum named D. G. Hogarth, who 81 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: had noticed Lawrence's aptitude back when he was just a 82 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: teenager biking around Oxfordshire, hired him to join a dig 83 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: in northern Syria. Once hired, Lawrence participated in digs in 84 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: this area of Northern Syria as well as in Egypt 85 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,799 Speaker 1: for four years. During this time, he developed a working 86 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: knowledge of the Arabic language, as well as a cursory 87 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: understanding of Middle Eastern political dynamics and how foreign actors 88 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: tried to sway locals. The knowledge of Arab politics and 89 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: the Arabic language that Lawrence gained working in the region 90 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: was what set him up for the job that would 91 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: launch his career as a British archaeologist. Lawrence fell into 92 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: the population of people that the British Empire utilized as 93 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: informal international spies. Collecting intel was of paramount importance on 94 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: the eve of World War I, as the Ottoman Empire, 95 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: over six centuries old at this point, was disintegrating. Just 96 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: as the power dynamics in Europe were tenuously kept in 97 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: balance during the early twentieth century, so too were the 98 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: dynamics of colonial holdings in the Middle East. Britain in particular, 99 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: was wary of Russia and Germany, threatening the quote jewel 100 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: of the Empire, India, as well as their Egyptian colony, 101 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: which included all important access to the Suez Canal. So, 102 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: with the Ottoman Empire, which at least in theory controlled 103 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: the majority of the Middle East, waning in power, the 104 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: British looked to gather intel on the local tribes inhabiting 105 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: the region and the efforts by other European names to 106 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: shore up power in the vacuum. Lawrence first formally entered 107 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: this thinly veiled line of work just months before the 108 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: outbreak of World War One, when he joined a British 109 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: team surveying the Sinai Peninsula. This endeavor was ostensibly to 110 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: look for archaeological signs of the Israelites' exile in the 111 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: desert after fleeing Egypt, but in reality the British military 112 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: wanted to chart the region in anticipation of potential military 113 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: maneuvers against the Ottomans. But Lawrence wouldn't be long for 114 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: this project. Once the team traversed the peninsula and reached 115 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: the city of Akaba on the tip of the Red Sea, 116 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: he was kicked out of town by the project's Turkish 117 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: supervisors for disobeying rules. As evidence by being kicked out 118 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: of this survey project, being an agent of the British 119 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: Empire proved somewhat difficult for the independently minded Lawrence, but 120 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: that project was just the beginning of his work with 121 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: and for the British government. Naturally, the outbreak of World 122 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: War I drew Lawrence into service, and it was due 123 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: to his service that Te Lawrence would become Lawrence of Arabia. 124 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: But even in this time of war, when patriotism surged 125 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: and people banded together under their imperial and national flags, 126 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: he struggled to reconcile his beliefs and convictions with those 127 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: of his imperial employer. While most accounts of World War 128 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: One focus on the Eastern and western fronts of the 129 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: war in Europe, the Eastern, Mediterranean and Middle Eastern theater 130 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: of war was just as important, particularly to the British Empire. 131 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: With the outbreak of war and the Ottomans officially entering 132 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: the war on the side of Germany and Austria Hungary, 133 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: protecting the Suez Canal became a matter of massive military 134 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: importance for the Brits. In taking on the Ottoman Turks, 135 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: the British appeared to adhere to the old phrase the 136 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: enemy of my enemy is my friend. At this time, 137 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: there was a growing movement of Arab nationalism sweeping across 138 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: portions of the Ottoman Empire, unified under the rule of 139 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: Sharif Hussain, the Emir or Prince of Mecca, a conglomerate 140 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: of Middle Eastern Arabs, was amassing, looking to carve out 141 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: from the Ottoman Empire a Muslim Arab sovereign nation. Once 142 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: World War One broke out. It was actually Sharif Hussain 143 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: who quickly approached the British about an alliance. He would 144 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: lead Arab soldiers against the Ottoman if the British committed 145 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: to the creation of an autonomous Arab state after the war. 146 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: The British took a long time to respond to this offer. 147 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: They weren't thrilled about committing to an Arab state in 148 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: the region, but they really needed whatever support they could 149 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: get against the Turks, eventually needing to save face after 150 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: a disastrous Gallipoli campaign. The British accepted the terms tentatively, 151 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: and Sharif Hussain launched the Arab Revolt officially in June 152 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen. From that point on, the British attempted to 153 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: aid the Arabs against the Turks by providing advice, weapons, 154 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: and men, but struggled to provide that support without undermining 155 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: their own long term goals in the region. When they 156 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: agreed to support the Arabs, they hadn't mentioned that they 157 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: had already made an agreement with France called the Sykes 158 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: Picot Agreement that essentially carved up the Ottoman Empire, leaving 159 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: pieces for the French and the English and almost nothing 160 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: for the Arab state. Hence the difficulty in supporting the 161 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: Arab revolt wholeheartedly. It was in that context, the outbreak 162 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: of the Arab Revolt and the British efforts to channel 163 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: and control the movement that t E Lawrence evolved into 164 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: Lawrence of Arabia. In the early years of the war, 165 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: while the British were still negotiating with Sharif Hussain in 166 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: Mecca t E. Lawrence was stationed in Cairo working for 167 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: the Arab Bureau, making maps and writing military bulletins. The 168 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: Arab Bureau, led by Lawrence's mentor, the man who had 169 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: actually discovered him back as a young boy, the archaeologist D. G. Hogarth, 170 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: was an arm of the British Army. The purpose of 171 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: the Arab Bureau was to collect, elect and distribute intel 172 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 1: and propaganda throughout the Arab world during the war. As such, 173 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: through his work at the Bureau, Lawrence was tapped into 174 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: the ongoing battle against the Turks. He was also aware 175 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: of the struggle of the Arab people to establish their 176 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: own state in the aftermath of the Ottoman Empire's disintegration 177 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixteen, after the Arab Revolt launched, things weren't 178 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: looking too good for the British and the Arabs. The 179 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: British had been routed at the city of Kut south 180 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: of Baghdad, and the Arab Army had been unable to 181 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: take Medina, the second holiest site in Islam and in 182 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: Ottoman stronghold. In order to bolster British and Arab efforts, Lawrence, 183 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: who had been to the Middle East before and had 184 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: some command of the language, was deemed the best person 185 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: to undertake a fact finding mission for British intelligen Jens. 186 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: He traveled to the coast of the Arabian Peninsula, also 187 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: known as the Hijas, so that he could meet and 188 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: evaluate Sharif Houssain's sons. The hope was that one of 189 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: them could be the quote prophet, the galvanizing figurehead to 190 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: lead the Arab army to victory. Traversing the Red Sea 191 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: on a boat and then the desert on camelback, Lawrence 192 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: met each of the sons and concluded that Sharif Hussain's 193 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: son Faisal was the man for the job. Once he 194 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: met with Fasil in the desert of the Hijas, there 195 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: was no going back for Lawrence. He had dipped his 196 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: toe into the Arab revolt and felt compelled to dive 197 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: headfirst back into it. As an advisor to Prince Fasial, 198 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: Lawrence was sympathetic to the Arab cause and felt he 199 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: had all of the qualities needed to spearhead British involvement 200 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: in the movement. Lawrence believed honestly in Arab nationalism, but 201 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: as an agent of the British Empire, he was supposed 202 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: to be advocating for strategies that ultimately benefited the British. 203 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: This internal tension would plague him for the rest of 204 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: his time in the Middle East. How could he encourage 205 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: the Arab army to fight and capture territory that they 206 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,479 Speaker 1: would not be allowed to control after the war. Nevertheless, 207 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: he pushed these contradictions aside and let himself be moved 208 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: into action. Now stationed at Faisal's side, Lawrence started getting 209 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: first hand experience living and fighting in the desert alongside 210 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: the majority of the other soldiers Bedouin tribesmen. The Arab 211 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: Bedouin tribes are nomadic herdsmen who know the Wadi Rum 212 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: desert like the backs of their hands. The Arab revolt 213 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: had been relying on these Bedouin tribespeople for about half 214 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: of their soldiers, but they had trouble controlling them untrained 215 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: and highly mobile groups. They didn't adhere to the commands 216 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: that the British military issued. Lawrence, a genius at appraising 217 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: the situation in front of him, realized that exactly what 218 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: made the Bedouins so difficult to wrangle might actually be 219 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: their strength. Instead of trying to force these nomadic people 220 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: to go against their nature and custom, Lawrence realized they 221 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: were the perfect soldiers for gorilla warfare. They could descend 222 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: upon the Turks when and where they least expected them, 223 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: exact violence, and then vanish back into the desert. In reality, 224 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: the Bedouin tribes had been fighting with each other in 225 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: these types of gorilla raids for centuries, so Lawrence wasn't 226 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: inventing a novel type of warfare. He was just the 227 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: first brit to recognize the utility of that custom. These 228 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: pinprick raids, as Lawrence them, would distract and ultimately weaken 229 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: the Ottomans, thereby allowing the Arab revolt to gain momentum 230 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: and have a fighting chance at succeeding. Lawrence recommended to 231 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: Faisal that they harnessed their manpower for these guerrilla raids, 232 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: specifically targeting the Hijaz railroad running from Ottoman Syria to Medina. 233 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: This way, the Arab army would not only disrupt lines 234 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: of transportation and communication between the Turks last outpost in 235 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: Arabia and their territory further north, but they would also 236 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: force the Ottomans to divert their resources away from fighting 237 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: and towards repairing the railway. In March nineteen seventeen, the 238 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: first explosive device that Lawrence planted derailed an Ottoman train, 239 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: which the Bedouin tribesmen thoroughly looted, and they destroyed a 240 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: portion of the railway. The success of this relatively simple 241 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: tactic pleased Fasal, and the Arab army proceeded to go 242 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: all in on Lawrence's guerrilla tactics for the rest of 243 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: the war. Lawrence and his allies would lay bombs along 244 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: the Hjaz railway and target trains carrying military supplies. This 245 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: strategy proved incredibly effective, harnessing the power of the Bedouins 246 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: and disrupting the Ottoman war machine in the Middle East. 247 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: With each passing day riding through the desert with various 248 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: Bedouin tribes, Lawrence ingratiated himself further into the Arab Army. 249 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: The clearest sign of this was his adoption of customary 250 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: Arab clothing that would become synonymous with his image later 251 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: in life. White robes with a white head covering, perfect 252 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: for sun protection in the desert. But Lawrence did more 253 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: than just try to look the part. He also walked 254 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: the walk in his commitment to on the ground participation 255 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: in military engagements. The most famous skirmish that he participated 256 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: in was the nineteen seventeen Battle of Akaba, which was 257 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: then held by the Turks. With a group of roughly 258 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: five hundred Bedouin tribesmen, Lawrence treked across Wadi Rum and 259 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: approached Akaba from land, which, despite Wadi Rum's beauty, was 260 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: an incredibly treacherous and exhausting undertaking. Once they reached the 261 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: mountains just outside Akaba, Lawrence and his fellow soldiers descended 262 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 1: suddenly from the mountains, catching the Turks by surprise and 263 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: easily capturing the port city with just a few Arab casualties. 264 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: Lawrence hadn't actually received approval for this campaign, so he 265 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: was lucky that this win provided the British Army with 266 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: a much needed port through which they could send supplies 267 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: into the region. That fact allowed Lawrence, in his capacity 268 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: as a British officer, to justify this otherwise unauthorized campaign 269 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: into northern Arabia. This quote battle, which was really more 270 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: of a guerrilla attack, also demonstrated the strength of Arab 271 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: forces and galvanized the army from that city. Facial Lawrence 272 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: and the army of Bedouin tribesmen leaned into their momentum 273 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: and mobilized towards Damascus in Ottoman Syria. As the caravan 274 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: marched north, Lawrence led the way, regularly planting bombs on 275 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: the railway and battling with Ottoman soldiers. It was this 276 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: type of dedication to the war, Lawrence's commitment to the 277 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: cause that later led to his heroic status. That isn't 278 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: to say that Lawrence was entirely noble in all of 279 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: his conduct in battle. Like during what came to be 280 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: known as the Taughas Massacre, Lawrence was, by his own 281 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: a mission unnecessarily brutal against his enemies. Lawrence himself actually 282 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: struggled for years with his conduct following the war, but 283 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: when Lawrence described the episode years later, his language reflects 284 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: how much he identified with his Arab compatriots and their 285 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: anguish at years under the Ottoman regime. Finally, in the 286 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: fall of nineteen eighteen, after slowly fighting and marching their 287 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: way through the desert, the Arab army arrived in Damascus, 288 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: and the Ottoman army quickly surrendered and vacated the city. 289 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: Lawrence and his comrades had reached the city before the 290 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: British had, and they strung up the flag of the 291 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: Arab Revolt to claim it. Despite knowing that the British 292 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: government fully intended not to allow the Arabs to rule 293 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: the region, Lawrence helped Prince Faisal set up a provisional 294 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: government in the city. He leaned into his allegiance to 295 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: the Arabs he had fought along side, as opposed to 296 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: the British army that technically employed him. They had done it. 297 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: The Arab Revolt had taken a major city from the 298 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: Ottomans and claimed control before any European powers could. Not 299 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: only had T. E. Lawrence traversed the deserts of the 300 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: Middle East, but he had been instrumental in getting the 301 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: Arab revolt this far. He saw this moment as the 302 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: beginning of a sovereign Arab nation, but unfortunately this was 303 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: as far as this movement would go, and it was 304 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: also essentially the end of T. E. Lawrence's career in 305 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: military and politics. But it was just the beginning of 306 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: the rise of the almost mythological hero Lawrence of Arabia. 307 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: Not long after the Arab army took Damascus, the Ottoman 308 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: Empire would collapse, Germany would surrender, and World War One 309 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: would be over. While the end of a brutal war 310 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: was an occasion for celebration, the real work of the 311 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: Arab revolt now began. Delegations from across the world descended 312 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: on Paris for the Paris Peace Conference of nineteen nineteen 313 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: and nineteen twenty, intent on helping Fasial and his father, 314 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: leader of the movement, Scharif Hussain, make their claim for 315 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: Arab sovereignty in the New World Order. Lawrence attended the 316 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: conference as a member of Faisal's delegation. He sought to 317 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: use his rank in the British government and his relationships 318 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: with British officers to help convince them of the need 319 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: for Arab sovereignty. Unfortunately, Lawrence was no match for the 320 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: power of colonialism. Coming out of the conference, there was 321 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: to be no independent Arab state. Instead, Britain and France 322 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,479 Speaker 1: held mandates to manage portions of these regions, including the 323 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: land that the Arab Revolt had claimed. While this was 324 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: certainly a loss for Lawrence, the conference was not wholly bad. 325 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: It was at the Peace Conference that he first started 326 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: writing about his time fighting in Arabia and with the 327 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: Bedouin tribes. Over the next several years, Lawrence would write 328 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: and rewrite his autobiographical book, The Seven Pillars of Wisdom. 329 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 1: Lawrence did embellish certain portions of his story, but he 330 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: also captured his thoughts and emotions regarding his time in 331 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: the desert. He acknowledged that his motivations behind his work 332 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: in Arabia were complicated. Part of him wanted to participate 333 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: in a national movement, while another part wanted to win 334 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: the war for Britain. By the time his autobiography came 335 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: out in nineteen twenty two, Lawrence was already actually a 336 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: household name, both in England and in America. For that, 337 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: we can thank Lowell Thomas, an American broadcaster and photographer. 338 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: At the very end of World War One, Thomas traveled 339 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: to the Middle East, where he took photographs of the war, 340 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: the people, and of course, t e Lawrence. Upon Thomas's 341 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: return to the States, he produced a popular lecture series 342 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: entitled With Allenby in Palestine that focused on British General 343 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: Allenby's campaign in the region. Thomas realized that audiences were 344 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: specifically drawn to images of Lawrence in his Arabic robes, 345 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: so when the production transferred to London in nineteen twenty, 346 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: Thomas refocused the production on both Allenby and Lawrence, and 347 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: changed the title of the series too, with allenb in 348 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: Palestine and Lawrence in Arabia. It was Lowell Thomas's production 349 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: that changed T. Lawrence into Lawrence of Arabia in the 350 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: public imagination. The later publication of Lawrence's autobiography, and eventually 351 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: the Oscar winning movie only cemented T. E. Lawrence as 352 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: the daring, swashbuckling hero of the Middle East. I want 353 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: to clarify something that while this episode focuses on Lawrence 354 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: of Arabia, he was not the sole reason that the 355 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: Arab Revolt succeeded, nor was he the only person to 356 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: have contributed to the success of the Arab Revolt. To 357 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: say that he was is to ignore the contributions of 358 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: many British military officials and the even more important contributions 359 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: of the Arab tribespeople who fought for their own sovereignty. T. E. 360 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: Lawrence is certainly a key figure in this important era 361 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: of history and a fascinating person. T. E. Lawrence was 362 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: certainly a key player during this era and a fascinating person, 363 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: but his importance in the Arab Revolt has been heightened 364 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: by the creation of the character Lawrence of Arabia and 365 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: the appeal of his striking imagery. Additionally, I want to 366 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: make clear the idea and the appeal of the man 367 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: Lawrence of Arabia very much relies on Orientalist tropes about 368 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,959 Speaker 1: the Middle East being an exotic, erotic and savage place 369 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: and accessible only through the vantage point of a white protagonist. 370 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: It's an easy narrative but also a fundamentally exploitative one 371 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: to imagine this well educated Englishman harnessing the power of 372 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: the previously untamable Erab people who fell in love with 373 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: them in the process. I think there's a way not 374 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: to singularly idolize T. Lawrence while also recognizing his major 375 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: contributions to the Middle Eastern theater during World War One 376 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: and the creation of his public persona. Now back to 377 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: Lawrence's post war life. He briefly served in the Colonial 378 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: Office as an advisor to Winston Churchill, but he hated 379 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: being stuck behind the desk doing bureaucratic work, so in 380 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty two, Lawrence joined the Royal Air Force, where 381 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: he served at various bases across the British Empire for 382 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: the next decade. Just two months after leaving military service 383 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty five, Lawrence was partaking in one of 384 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: his favorite hobbies, driving his motorcycle. Unfortunately, on that day, 385 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: Lawrence didn't see two young boys riding their bikes on 386 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: a dip of the road ahead of him, and he 387 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: belatedly swerved to avoid hitting them with his motorcycle. In 388 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: doing so, Lawrence was thrown from his bike and gravely 389 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: injured six days later, at the age of forty six, 390 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: T E. Lawrence. While Lawrence's premature death brought an end 391 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: to his adventures, it was only the beginning of his 392 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: life as the world renowned Lawrence of Arabia, figure of 393 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: myth That's the story of the man behind the Hero. 394 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: T E. Lawrence, But stick around after a brief sponsor 395 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: break to hear how Lawrence of Arabia contributed to safety 396 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: laws in the UK. According to historian Michael Korda, up 397 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: until Princess Diana's death, perhaps no other vehicular accident had 398 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: received as much scrutiny as Te Lawrence's motorcycle crash. Immediately 399 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: after Lawrence's death, an inquest was opened. The inquest didn't 400 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: provide people much clarity, unfortunately, as it only illuded, eminated 401 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: in consistencies in testimony, and led to a multitude of 402 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: theories around the death. In fact, some people even believed 403 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: that the famous World War I veteran was assassinated by 404 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: either a domestic or foreign agent, a claim which has 405 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: never actually been credibly substantiated. Not everyone saw Lawrence's death 406 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: as something to investigate for salacious reasons, though one man 407 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: was prompted by the unfortunate death to do some good. 408 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: When t Lawrence was hospitalized after the accident, he was 409 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: attended to by neurosurgeon Hugh Cairns, one of six surgeons 410 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: who attempted to save Lawrence's life to no avail. After 411 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: Lawrence's death, Cairns started researching those who died in motorcycle accidents. 412 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: He looked specifically at those who received head injuries as 413 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: a result of the accident, like Laurence had when he 414 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:06,719 Speaker 1: flew over his handlebards. Karns's research revealed just how deadly 415 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: motorcycle crashes could be when head trauma happened. These findings 416 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: ultimately influenced UK law against mandatory helmet safety. Nowadays, it's 417 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: uncommon to see people riding motorcycles without helmets unless they 418 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: have an adrenaline addiction or a death wish. So next 419 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: time you hear about a motorcycle accident with no casualties 420 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: because the rider was wearing a helmet, you can thank 421 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: Lawrence of Arabia. Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio 422 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey. Noble Blood is 423 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: hosted by me Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and research 424 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: by Hannah Johnston, Hannahswick, Courtney Sender, Amy Hit and Julia Milani. 425 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk, with 426 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: supervising producerrima Ill Kali and executive producers Aaron Manke, Trevor Young, 427 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 428 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,239 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 429 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: favorite shows.