1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:22,596 Speaker 1: Bushkin im Ave Higgins, and this is solvable. Interviews with 2 00:00:22,676 --> 00:00:25,916 Speaker 1: the world's most innovative thinkers who are working to solve 3 00:00:25,956 --> 00:00:31,436 Speaker 1: the world's biggest problems. My solvable is to end child 4 00:00:31,476 --> 00:00:36,596 Speaker 1: marriage globally by the year two thousand to thirty. That's 5 00:00:36,716 --> 00:00:39,876 Speaker 1: Mabel van Uranier, and she is trying to solve a 6 00:00:39,956 --> 00:00:43,236 Speaker 1: problem which is bigger than you might think. Child marriage 7 00:00:43,476 --> 00:00:47,916 Speaker 1: is a worldwide problem. Globally, one in five girls are 8 00:00:48,076 --> 00:00:51,436 Speaker 1: thought to be married as children. That means that about 9 00:00:51,436 --> 00:00:57,116 Speaker 1: twelve million children are getting married every year. Child marriage 10 00:00:57,196 --> 00:01:00,556 Speaker 1: happens everywhere, including right here in America. It was only 11 00:01:00,636 --> 00:01:03,516 Speaker 1: last year that Delaware and New Jersey became the first 12 00:01:03,556 --> 00:01:07,196 Speaker 1: states to outlaw marriage for anyone under the age of eighteen. 13 00:01:07,836 --> 00:01:10,556 Speaker 1: The state of Missouri as the most lenient law in 14 00:01:10,596 --> 00:01:13,596 Speaker 1: the nation that allows fifteen year olds to wed with 15 00:01:13,676 --> 00:01:19,196 Speaker 1: only one parent signature required. But child marriage happens most 16 00:01:19,236 --> 00:01:23,676 Speaker 1: often in developing countries. The problem cuts across ethnic, cultural 17 00:01:23,796 --> 00:01:27,036 Speaker 1: and religious lines and can be found everywhere from Africa 18 00:01:27,076 --> 00:01:29,596 Speaker 1: to the Middle East, Asia to Europe, and like I 19 00:01:29,636 --> 00:01:34,036 Speaker 1: mentioned here, in America. UNISEPT says that marriage before the 20 00:01:34,076 --> 00:01:38,076 Speaker 1: age of eighteen often amounts to a fundamental violation of 21 00:01:38,196 --> 00:01:42,356 Speaker 1: human rights. There are many things that increase the risk 22 00:01:42,516 --> 00:01:46,876 Speaker 1: that a child will get married, including poverty, the idea 23 00:01:46,956 --> 00:01:51,716 Speaker 1: that marriage will provide protection, social norms and ideas about 24 00:01:51,756 --> 00:01:56,556 Speaker 1: family honor, or even just customary or religious laws that 25 00:01:56,596 --> 00:02:01,156 Speaker 1: condone child marriage. Countries like Niger and the Central African 26 00:02:01,156 --> 00:02:04,916 Speaker 1: Republic and Bangladesh, they have among the highest rates of 27 00:02:05,036 --> 00:02:08,036 Speaker 1: child marriage in the world, and they're all struggling with 28 00:02:08,076 --> 00:02:12,436 Speaker 1: the multitude of other issues too. In today's episode, you'll 29 00:02:12,476 --> 00:02:16,276 Speaker 1: hear Mabel talking mainly about girls. Boys being married is 30 00:02:16,316 --> 00:02:19,396 Speaker 1: of course a violation of their rights too, but it's 31 00:02:19,436 --> 00:02:23,756 Speaker 1: far more common for girls. Child marriage is often driven 32 00:02:23,836 --> 00:02:28,436 Speaker 1: by patriarchal values and the desire to control female sexuality, 33 00:02:29,116 --> 00:02:32,076 Speaker 1: and the consequences of a child marriage well, they can 34 00:02:32,116 --> 00:02:37,556 Speaker 1: be devastating. Pregnancy is consistently among the leading causes of 35 00:02:37,636 --> 00:02:42,876 Speaker 1: death for girls aged fifteen to nineteen worldwide. Girls who 36 00:02:42,916 --> 00:02:46,596 Speaker 1: marry before eighteen are more likely to experience domestic violence 37 00:02:46,636 --> 00:02:49,836 Speaker 1: in their peers who marry later, and it often has 38 00:02:49,876 --> 00:02:53,356 Speaker 1: a terrible effect on the girl's mental health too. So 39 00:02:53,796 --> 00:02:57,076 Speaker 1: this is an extremely worthy solvable that I'm really glad 40 00:02:57,076 --> 00:03:01,636 Speaker 1: we're discussing Mabel van Uranier has been a global advocate 41 00:03:01,676 --> 00:03:06,076 Speaker 1: for freedom, justice and development for more than twenty years, 42 00:03:06,116 --> 00:03:09,356 Speaker 1: and most recently she's thrown herself into her work as 43 00:03:09,396 --> 00:03:13,396 Speaker 1: the initiator and chair of Girls Not Brides, the Global 44 00:03:13,436 --> 00:03:17,476 Speaker 1: Partnership to End Child Marriage. Now that partnership is between 45 00:03:17,676 --> 00:03:21,436 Speaker 1: more than twelve hundred organizations in more than ninety five countries, 46 00:03:21,756 --> 00:03:25,516 Speaker 1: and they're all committed to ending child marriage and enabling 47 00:03:25,556 --> 00:03:29,676 Speaker 1: girls to fulfill their potential. Oh and you'll hear Mabel 48 00:03:29,756 --> 00:03:31,956 Speaker 1: mention the Elders in a moment. And in case you 49 00:03:32,036 --> 00:03:34,996 Speaker 1: haven't heard of them, the Elders were set up by 50 00:03:34,996 --> 00:03:37,876 Speaker 1: Nelson Mandela as a kind of a supergroup of former 51 00:03:37,916 --> 00:03:41,076 Speaker 1: heads of state. They all worked together now for peace, 52 00:03:41,356 --> 00:03:46,236 Speaker 1: justice and human rights, Mary Robinson, Desmond Tutu, Jimmy Carter, 53 00:03:46,756 --> 00:03:50,276 Speaker 1: basically all of the coolest older people that we've got. 54 00:03:50,676 --> 00:03:53,516 Speaker 1: That's the Elders. And from two thousand and eight until 55 00:03:53,516 --> 00:03:57,076 Speaker 1: two and twelve, Mabel was CEO of the Elders. That's 56 00:03:57,076 --> 00:04:00,196 Speaker 1: when she began to focus on her solvable, which is 57 00:04:00,396 --> 00:04:03,636 Speaker 1: ending child marriage. All right here she is now in 58 00:04:03,716 --> 00:04:08,716 Speaker 1: conversation with Jacob Weisberg. Child marriage is happening every year 59 00:04:08,796 --> 00:04:12,596 Speaker 1: to twelve million girls all over the world. That means 60 00:04:12,596 --> 00:04:16,516 Speaker 1: a girl almost every two seconds getting married, and so 61 00:04:16,596 --> 00:04:19,716 Speaker 1: the number of child brides is not only enormous, but 62 00:04:19,796 --> 00:04:24,276 Speaker 1: the consequences are really devastating. I know countless stories of 63 00:04:24,276 --> 00:04:26,636 Speaker 1: girls who told me that their wedding day was the 64 00:04:26,716 --> 00:04:29,076 Speaker 1: day they had to leave school. It was the day 65 00:04:29,116 --> 00:04:31,156 Speaker 1: that they were shipped off to live with a family 66 00:04:31,996 --> 00:04:35,116 Speaker 1: of a husband who they had never met before, who 67 00:04:35,196 --> 00:04:37,996 Speaker 1: is older in age often and they go live with 68 00:04:38,196 --> 00:04:41,236 Speaker 1: their in laws then, and you know, for them, their 69 00:04:41,236 --> 00:04:43,916 Speaker 1: wedding night is could be the night they get pregnant, 70 00:04:44,116 --> 00:04:47,196 Speaker 1: even though they themselves are a still a child. And 71 00:04:47,236 --> 00:04:50,036 Speaker 1: so what you then see is that there's a disproportional 72 00:04:50,276 --> 00:04:55,196 Speaker 1: high problems around maternal health and even maternal death. For 73 00:04:55,356 --> 00:04:58,836 Speaker 1: child brides. The chances that their babies will survive are 74 00:04:58,916 --> 00:05:01,756 Speaker 1: much lower than women who have their first child after 75 00:05:01,796 --> 00:05:04,996 Speaker 1: the age of eighteen. They're more often becoming the victims 76 00:05:05,036 --> 00:05:08,316 Speaker 1: of violence domestic violence by the hands of their husbands 77 00:05:08,396 --> 00:05:11,596 Speaker 1: or their in law. In some cases, it seems like 78 00:05:11,636 --> 00:05:15,876 Speaker 1: they're more likely to become HIV infected. And so what 79 00:05:15,996 --> 00:05:20,076 Speaker 1: child marriage really is for these girls is turning from 80 00:05:20,116 --> 00:05:24,156 Speaker 1: what was maybe a life with a reasonably bright future. 81 00:05:24,836 --> 00:05:28,516 Speaker 1: Turning their lives basically into hell. Now that's happening on 82 00:05:28,516 --> 00:05:31,116 Speaker 1: a massive skill. But what it also means is that, 83 00:05:31,196 --> 00:05:32,916 Speaker 1: you know, as a world, we have said we want, 84 00:05:33,036 --> 00:05:36,276 Speaker 1: you know, to achieve the STGs. Now, eight out of 85 00:05:36,316 --> 00:05:41,836 Speaker 1: these seventeen sustainable development goals, including education, including maternal health, 86 00:05:41,916 --> 00:05:45,356 Speaker 1: including infant health, including violence, et cetera, et cetera, they're 87 00:05:45,436 --> 00:05:48,236 Speaker 1: linked to child marriage. And so the idea that we 88 00:05:48,276 --> 00:05:51,276 Speaker 1: can ever get every girl into school, or that we 89 00:05:51,356 --> 00:05:55,956 Speaker 1: can ever reduce maternal mortality if we continue to ignore 90 00:05:56,036 --> 00:05:59,156 Speaker 1: the issue of child marriage, it's just a dream. So 91 00:05:59,636 --> 00:06:02,476 Speaker 1: I believe ending child marriage wouldn't only be really good 92 00:06:02,476 --> 00:06:05,156 Speaker 1: for these twelve million girls, but it also means that 93 00:06:05,236 --> 00:06:07,996 Speaker 1: if we ever want to eradicate poverty, we need to 94 00:06:08,036 --> 00:06:11,196 Speaker 1: make sure that these girls actually can live productive, healthy, 95 00:06:11,276 --> 00:06:14,636 Speaker 1: happy lives. So I'm curious, Mabel, what brought you personally 96 00:06:14,676 --> 00:06:17,836 Speaker 1: to this problem. Why child marriage the thing that you've 97 00:06:18,036 --> 00:06:21,796 Speaker 1: committed your life to salving. Well, it happened when I 98 00:06:21,836 --> 00:06:25,196 Speaker 1: was working in twenty ten for the Elders, you know, 99 00:06:25,236 --> 00:06:30,436 Speaker 1: Nelson Mandela's organization of eminent former presidents, prime ministers, etc. 100 00:06:31,156 --> 00:06:33,556 Speaker 1: And they, the elders, had said, we want to work 101 00:06:33,556 --> 00:06:37,916 Speaker 1: on gender inequality. They felt that that gender inequality is 102 00:06:37,956 --> 00:06:41,156 Speaker 1: the biggest injustice of the twenty first century, and they 103 00:06:41,196 --> 00:06:43,956 Speaker 1: specifically wanted to look at that through the lens of 104 00:06:44,036 --> 00:06:47,356 Speaker 1: how religion and tradition, which are normally forces for good 105 00:06:47,356 --> 00:06:50,916 Speaker 1: in our lives, too often religion and tradition get misused 106 00:06:50,916 --> 00:06:54,596 Speaker 1: to justify discrimination against girls and women. And so they 107 00:06:55,036 --> 00:06:57,396 Speaker 1: spoke out about that. It got a lot of traction, 108 00:06:57,436 --> 00:06:59,396 Speaker 1: and then we started looking at like, is there in 109 00:06:59,476 --> 00:07:03,196 Speaker 1: this whole issue of gender inequality a specific example that 110 00:07:03,236 --> 00:07:06,116 Speaker 1: would benefit from getting the attention of the elders, but 111 00:07:06,236 --> 00:07:09,556 Speaker 1: that isn't yet kind of on the global agenda, And 112 00:07:09,876 --> 00:07:12,316 Speaker 1: at some point I was I was therefore, looking at 113 00:07:12,356 --> 00:07:15,116 Speaker 1: what could the elders do, and having lunch with a 114 00:07:15,156 --> 00:07:18,036 Speaker 1: friend and we started talking about child marriage. Was I thought, 115 00:07:18,076 --> 00:07:21,636 Speaker 1: it's interesting the two words say it, oh, child marriage. 116 00:07:22,236 --> 00:07:24,356 Speaker 1: But at the same time I also thought, it's interesting 117 00:07:24,356 --> 00:07:26,596 Speaker 1: you never hear about it. You know, you would go 118 00:07:26,676 --> 00:07:30,436 Speaker 1: to these big un conferences about education, or about health, 119 00:07:30,516 --> 00:07:34,596 Speaker 1: or about development, and the word child marriage was rarely, 120 00:07:34,676 --> 00:07:37,396 Speaker 1: rarely uttered, And so I thought, I'm curious, is this 121 00:07:37,516 --> 00:07:39,516 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand girls a year? Is it maybe half 122 00:07:39,516 --> 00:07:41,596 Speaker 1: a million girls a year? Maybe a million girls a year, 123 00:07:41,996 --> 00:07:44,516 Speaker 1: And when we then found out it's actually twelve million 124 00:07:44,516 --> 00:07:47,316 Speaker 1: girls a year, I felt like, this is crazy. How 125 00:07:47,356 --> 00:07:49,356 Speaker 1: can there be a problem that is so big that 126 00:07:49,396 --> 00:07:52,556 Speaker 1: it is having such a huge impact on poverty eradication 127 00:07:52,836 --> 00:07:56,596 Speaker 1: and it's completely ignored. And I think that's partially because 128 00:07:56,996 --> 00:08:00,676 Speaker 1: because these girls are more or less invisible. You know, 129 00:08:00,756 --> 00:08:04,996 Speaker 1: they often they they're miners, they don't speak English in 130 00:08:05,036 --> 00:08:08,276 Speaker 1: many cases, they live in far away rural places. So 131 00:08:08,356 --> 00:08:11,596 Speaker 1: for them to organized and put their issue on the 132 00:08:11,596 --> 00:08:15,476 Speaker 1: global agenda is just impossible if you think about, you know, 133 00:08:15,516 --> 00:08:17,756 Speaker 1: the success of the eighths movement, for example, to a 134 00:08:17,836 --> 00:08:21,356 Speaker 1: large extent that was driven by men infected by the 135 00:08:21,596 --> 00:08:25,316 Speaker 1: HIV virus who really put the issue on the global agenda. 136 00:08:25,676 --> 00:08:28,316 Speaker 1: I think another reason why child marriage wasn't really getting 137 00:08:28,316 --> 00:08:33,276 Speaker 1: the attention it deserved was because it's driven by complex issues. 138 00:08:33,476 --> 00:08:35,756 Speaker 1: People do it either because of tradition, so you know, 139 00:08:36,276 --> 00:08:39,716 Speaker 1: you do it because your generation and the generation before 140 00:08:39,756 --> 00:08:42,316 Speaker 1: you on the generation before them has always done this, 141 00:08:42,436 --> 00:08:45,396 Speaker 1: and so people don't really think about it, or people 142 00:08:45,436 --> 00:08:47,836 Speaker 1: do it because they're concerned about the sexual safety of 143 00:08:47,876 --> 00:08:51,996 Speaker 1: their daughters. Imagine that she would get pregnant before marriage 144 00:08:51,996 --> 00:08:56,236 Speaker 1: and thereby dishonored the family or herself. Some people do 145 00:08:56,276 --> 00:08:58,716 Speaker 1: it because of poverty, you know, marrying a daughter of 146 00:08:58,876 --> 00:09:01,396 Speaker 1: means one less mouth to feed, or in the case 147 00:09:01,436 --> 00:09:05,396 Speaker 1: of India, the younger the girl is, the less high 148 00:09:05,436 --> 00:09:07,636 Speaker 1: the dowry that the family of the girl has to 149 00:09:07,676 --> 00:09:11,036 Speaker 1: pay to the family. In the end, it's all related 150 00:09:11,036 --> 00:09:15,596 Speaker 1: to gender inequality. It's all that idea that girls are 151 00:09:15,716 --> 00:09:19,116 Speaker 1: less important than boys. And so I think the reasons 152 00:09:19,156 --> 00:09:22,996 Speaker 1: why this happens are complex, which is why I think 153 00:09:23,236 --> 00:09:25,236 Speaker 1: maybe one of the reasons why people didn't want to 154 00:09:25,236 --> 00:09:29,156 Speaker 1: touch it. And I personally believe the idea that something 155 00:09:29,276 --> 00:09:32,436 Speaker 1: is complex doesn't mean that therefore it isn't important, and 156 00:09:32,876 --> 00:09:35,716 Speaker 1: I feel that this is very important. Then the elders agreed, 157 00:09:35,756 --> 00:09:37,676 Speaker 1: and so we we then said, okay, we're going to 158 00:09:37,756 --> 00:09:41,796 Speaker 1: change this. You've met girls who have escaped from child marriage. 159 00:09:42,276 --> 00:09:44,476 Speaker 1: I wonder you give me more of a sense of 160 00:09:44,516 --> 00:09:47,876 Speaker 1: the face of the problem. Where is it and what's 161 00:09:47,876 --> 00:09:51,116 Speaker 1: the experience of these girls, Like do many of them 162 00:09:51,156 --> 00:09:55,276 Speaker 1: get out? What? Because if you say it's mostly silent 163 00:09:55,436 --> 00:09:58,356 Speaker 1: in these girls are denied a voice, and we don't 164 00:09:58,476 --> 00:10:01,716 Speaker 1: hear the story of child marriage from their perspective for 165 00:10:01,796 --> 00:10:06,156 Speaker 1: the most part. So I've now traveled to many places 166 00:10:06,156 --> 00:10:09,436 Speaker 1: where child marriage happens, and it happens truly all over world, 167 00:10:10,076 --> 00:10:15,236 Speaker 1: across religions, across cultures, across continents, and it's an illusion. 168 00:10:15,276 --> 00:10:18,516 Speaker 1: I mean, they're none of the Holy Book says marry 169 00:10:18,556 --> 00:10:22,116 Speaker 1: her daughters before eighteen, but it is happening across all religions, 170 00:10:22,116 --> 00:10:26,196 Speaker 1: for example, and the highest numbers are in Sub Saharan Africa. 171 00:10:26,356 --> 00:10:29,756 Speaker 1: The country with the highest percentage rate is Nisa, where 172 00:10:29,916 --> 00:10:32,516 Speaker 1: three out of every four girls are married before the 173 00:10:32,556 --> 00:10:36,316 Speaker 1: age of eighteen. The country with the highest absolute number 174 00:10:36,356 --> 00:10:39,316 Speaker 1: is India, which has obviously a huge population, but also 175 00:10:39,396 --> 00:10:42,756 Speaker 1: the rates there are quite high. So South Asia is 176 00:10:42,836 --> 00:10:47,036 Speaker 1: also really a problematic. But then you see child marriage, 177 00:10:47,036 --> 00:10:49,996 Speaker 1: for example, also in Latin America, and that the stories 178 00:10:49,996 --> 00:10:52,956 Speaker 1: of the girls in Latin America are often slightly different than, 179 00:10:53,036 --> 00:10:56,436 Speaker 1: for example, the girls in Bangladesh or the girls in Africa, 180 00:10:56,476 --> 00:10:59,796 Speaker 1: And so it's very important to you know, look contact 181 00:10:59,836 --> 00:11:03,756 Speaker 1: specific why does it happen. For example, in Ethiopia, there 182 00:11:03,756 --> 00:11:07,356 Speaker 1: are a lot of it seems related to basically tradition. 183 00:11:07,556 --> 00:11:11,556 Speaker 1: We always do this, and the many fathers and mothers 184 00:11:11,596 --> 00:11:14,116 Speaker 1: don't even know that they're alternatives and that actually it 185 00:11:14,156 --> 00:11:16,796 Speaker 1: would be They think that this is the right thing 186 00:11:16,836 --> 00:11:19,916 Speaker 1: for their daughters and they don't realize how harmful it is. 187 00:11:20,276 --> 00:11:22,836 Speaker 1: But in Ethiopia, I'll never forget. I met a group 188 00:11:22,836 --> 00:11:24,756 Speaker 1: of married girls and there was this girl I was 189 00:11:24,796 --> 00:11:26,876 Speaker 1: seated next to, and I asked her, how old were 190 00:11:26,916 --> 00:11:29,356 Speaker 1: you when you got married? And she said, I don't 191 00:11:29,356 --> 00:11:31,196 Speaker 1: really know, because I don't know when I was born, 192 00:11:31,396 --> 00:11:33,596 Speaker 1: because many of these girls don't have burst their difficates. 193 00:11:33,956 --> 00:11:35,916 Speaker 1: And she said, but I must have been between the 194 00:11:35,956 --> 00:11:38,596 Speaker 1: age of five and seven when I got married. And 195 00:11:38,636 --> 00:11:41,476 Speaker 1: this really went like a knife through my heart because 196 00:11:42,116 --> 00:11:44,476 Speaker 1: at that time my own daughters were five and six 197 00:11:44,556 --> 00:11:47,676 Speaker 1: years old. And I thought about the lottery of life. 198 00:11:47,836 --> 00:11:53,116 Speaker 1: If my daughters had had been born there in northern Ethiopia, 199 00:11:53,276 --> 00:11:56,196 Speaker 1: they might have been married at that time. And it 200 00:11:57,156 --> 00:12:00,156 Speaker 1: really felt like this is an injustice, that this cannot continue. 201 00:12:00,196 --> 00:12:04,756 Speaker 1: I mean, the geography, the place where you're born, should 202 00:12:04,836 --> 00:12:08,916 Speaker 1: not determine destiny, the chances that you have to live, 203 00:12:09,436 --> 00:12:12,836 Speaker 1: you know, a well educated and happy life. But then 204 00:12:12,876 --> 00:12:15,116 Speaker 1: I think of the girls who I met in Indonesia, 205 00:12:15,276 --> 00:12:18,116 Speaker 1: who some of them ended up in child marriage because 206 00:12:18,436 --> 00:12:21,676 Speaker 1: sex is a taboo and so people don't really want 207 00:12:21,676 --> 00:12:23,756 Speaker 1: to talk about it. And that's not just in Indonesia, 208 00:12:23,796 --> 00:12:26,036 Speaker 1: that is in many places in the world, including in 209 00:12:26,076 --> 00:12:29,276 Speaker 1: the West. And so these girls didn't know how you 210 00:12:29,276 --> 00:12:32,116 Speaker 1: get pregnant. They didn't know that you can have contracept 211 00:12:32,156 --> 00:12:35,596 Speaker 1: us to avoid getting pregnant. And so these girls, thanks 212 00:12:35,636 --> 00:12:39,836 Speaker 1: to the inappropriate advances of boys, and pregnant, and that 213 00:12:39,916 --> 00:12:42,636 Speaker 1: means that they're basically then forced to marry the men 214 00:12:42,676 --> 00:12:46,076 Speaker 1: who made them pregnant, and normally then also leave school. 215 00:12:46,556 --> 00:12:49,236 Speaker 1: So the reasons why it happens are different. And that's 216 00:12:49,236 --> 00:12:51,796 Speaker 1: why it's also so important when you try to solve 217 00:12:51,876 --> 00:12:55,396 Speaker 1: this issue that you look carefully at why is it 218 00:12:55,476 --> 00:12:59,516 Speaker 1: happening in this particular community, what are the reasons, and 219 00:12:59,596 --> 00:13:02,196 Speaker 1: how can we change it. It wasn't so long ago 220 00:13:02,316 --> 00:13:06,236 Speaker 1: that the child marriage was totally normal in Europe, in 221 00:13:06,316 --> 00:13:09,796 Speaker 1: the developed world. I mean, I was just thinking, you know, 222 00:13:10,596 --> 00:13:13,676 Speaker 1: thorn kerker Guard was engaged to a fifteen year old girl, 223 00:13:13,876 --> 00:13:16,876 Speaker 1: Novalace was engaged to a twelve year old girl. These 224 00:13:16,916 --> 00:13:20,436 Speaker 1: were famous moral philosophers in Europe in the nineteenth century. 225 00:13:20,796 --> 00:13:25,036 Speaker 1: So how do you avoid the problem of seeming ethnocentric 226 00:13:25,116 --> 00:13:28,236 Speaker 1: or condescending. We don't do this anymore. Speaking to the 227 00:13:28,276 --> 00:13:32,116 Speaker 1: developed world, you can't do it anymore. I think it's 228 00:13:32,156 --> 00:13:34,356 Speaker 1: a very good point. I mean, you cannot come in 229 00:13:34,396 --> 00:13:36,996 Speaker 1: as an outsider into a community and tell them this 230 00:13:37,116 --> 00:13:40,396 Speaker 1: is wrong. Stop it. I think if you're ultimately talking 231 00:13:40,436 --> 00:13:43,556 Speaker 1: about what needs to happen is social norm change. You 232 00:13:43,636 --> 00:13:47,156 Speaker 1: need to change what people consider normal, and that can 233 00:13:47,196 --> 00:13:49,476 Speaker 1: only be done in an effective way if you are 234 00:13:49,676 --> 00:13:52,116 Speaker 1: do it in a respectful way, and I mean it's 235 00:13:52,196 --> 00:13:55,956 Speaker 1: done by people who the community trusts. So foreigners walking 236 00:13:55,956 --> 00:13:57,836 Speaker 1: into a community and saying this is wrong is not 237 00:13:57,876 --> 00:14:01,036 Speaker 1: going to work. Let's also not forget I don't think 238 00:14:01,076 --> 00:14:04,556 Speaker 1: that any parent wants to hurt their children. So parents 239 00:14:04,596 --> 00:14:07,236 Speaker 1: want the best for their children. So what we see 240 00:14:07,436 --> 00:14:10,196 Speaker 1: is that when you want to create last change, Yes 241 00:14:10,276 --> 00:14:12,676 Speaker 1: you need laws that set a minimum age of marriage. 242 00:14:12,836 --> 00:14:14,836 Speaker 1: Yes you need alternatives. You know, you need to make 243 00:14:14,836 --> 00:14:18,916 Speaker 1: sure that they're schooling, that there is reproductive health, contraceptives, 244 00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:21,276 Speaker 1: that all that is available. But in the end, if 245 00:14:21,276 --> 00:14:24,556 Speaker 1: you really want to get to the point where parents 246 00:14:24,596 --> 00:14:27,716 Speaker 1: say go from of course my daughter will be married 247 00:14:27,716 --> 00:14:31,076 Speaker 1: at age fourteen. Two. Of course my daughter will not 248 00:14:31,196 --> 00:14:34,156 Speaker 1: be married at the age of fourteen. You need social 249 00:14:34,476 --> 00:14:37,196 Speaker 1: normative change to happen in the community, and what we 250 00:14:37,356 --> 00:14:40,796 Speaker 1: know how best to do that is by actually having 251 00:14:40,836 --> 00:14:43,476 Speaker 1: people who are trusted by the community do that and 252 00:14:43,596 --> 00:14:45,996 Speaker 1: sit down with them and not tell them what you're 253 00:14:45,996 --> 00:14:48,396 Speaker 1: doing is wrong, but start talking about And I've seen 254 00:14:48,436 --> 00:14:51,236 Speaker 1: these programs with my own eyes and it is fascinating. 255 00:14:51,276 --> 00:14:53,556 Speaker 1: They take time, but you know, you sit down with 256 00:14:53,636 --> 00:14:56,956 Speaker 1: everybody in the community every other Friday under the big tree, 257 00:14:57,236 --> 00:14:59,956 Speaker 1: and you talk about how come that we're so poor, 258 00:15:00,316 --> 00:15:02,756 Speaker 1: how come that so many of our young girls die 259 00:15:02,796 --> 00:15:05,796 Speaker 1: in childbirth? How come you know X, y Z. And 260 00:15:05,836 --> 00:15:10,156 Speaker 1: then you help people understand about rights, you help people 261 00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:13,676 Speaker 1: understand about alternatives. And what we see happen then is 262 00:15:13,716 --> 00:15:18,556 Speaker 1: communities that collectively deside by themselves to say, look, we 263 00:15:18,676 --> 00:15:21,196 Speaker 1: thought we were doing the right thing. We're not longer 264 00:15:21,276 --> 00:15:23,916 Speaker 1: gonna marry our daughters at a young age. We know 265 00:15:24,036 --> 00:15:25,756 Speaker 1: it is better for all of us, not just for 266 00:15:25,756 --> 00:15:27,396 Speaker 1: the girls, not to do it, and we will all 267 00:15:27,436 --> 00:15:30,276 Speaker 1: be wealthier and healthier if we do so. And that's 268 00:15:30,316 --> 00:15:33,556 Speaker 1: amazing and that's the power of change. And that's what 269 00:15:33,756 --> 00:15:37,036 Speaker 1: also makes me hopeful that if we can kind of 270 00:15:37,076 --> 00:15:41,356 Speaker 1: skill these programs up and really empower these local change 271 00:15:41,396 --> 00:15:44,356 Speaker 1: makers to make it possible for them to work with 272 00:15:46,156 --> 00:15:49,836 Speaker 1: traditional leaders, with local religious leaders, with the teachers, with 273 00:15:50,436 --> 00:15:53,116 Speaker 1: anybody who holds power in the community, if they can 274 00:15:53,156 --> 00:15:56,076 Speaker 1: all work together, all across roots level, I think we 275 00:15:56,156 --> 00:15:58,676 Speaker 1: can see a change at skill that right now we 276 00:15:58,756 --> 00:16:02,076 Speaker 1: find still hard to imagine. Yeah, it's such an important 277 00:16:02,116 --> 00:16:05,076 Speaker 1: point that norms are more important than laws. I mean, 278 00:16:05,116 --> 00:16:07,516 Speaker 1: I think you can go all over the United States 279 00:16:07,596 --> 00:16:12,716 Speaker 1: and find state like Massachusetts where the child marriage is 280 00:16:12,796 --> 00:16:15,316 Speaker 1: legal if the parents agree to it, you know, the 281 00:16:15,356 --> 00:16:17,436 Speaker 1: age of twelve, but it doesn't happen because it's not 282 00:16:17,516 --> 00:16:21,156 Speaker 1: done anymore. But does the law play a role as well? 283 00:16:21,436 --> 00:16:25,116 Speaker 1: The laws to certain extent plays a role. I mean, well, 284 00:16:25,236 --> 00:16:27,956 Speaker 1: India has had a law that for about one hundred 285 00:16:28,036 --> 00:16:30,116 Speaker 1: years that says no marriage under the age of eighteen, 286 00:16:30,156 --> 00:16:33,076 Speaker 1: and that was ignored. So laws can play a role 287 00:16:33,116 --> 00:16:36,436 Speaker 1: if they also get if they get implemented. But changing 288 00:16:36,476 --> 00:16:39,316 Speaker 1: of laws and discussing laws can help to create an 289 00:16:39,396 --> 00:16:42,756 Speaker 1: environment in which change is easier. The situation in the 290 00:16:42,836 --> 00:16:47,556 Speaker 1: United States is actually quite disturbing in that the number 291 00:16:47,596 --> 00:16:49,996 Speaker 1: of child brides in the United States seems to be 292 00:16:50,036 --> 00:16:52,756 Speaker 1: around twenty five thousand per year. If you look at 293 00:16:52,756 --> 00:16:55,836 Speaker 1: the global skilled child marriage twelve million per year, twenty 294 00:16:55,836 --> 00:16:59,716 Speaker 1: five thousands isn't a whole lot, but twenty five thousand 295 00:16:59,756 --> 00:17:02,436 Speaker 1: girls in a country like the United States getting married 296 00:17:02,476 --> 00:17:06,316 Speaker 1: every year. I just find that flavor guesting. And what's 297 00:17:06,356 --> 00:17:09,036 Speaker 1: disturbing is that until about a year or so ago, 298 00:17:09,756 --> 00:17:13,076 Speaker 1: you could get married in the United States in every state, 299 00:17:13,316 --> 00:17:16,196 Speaker 1: all of the fifty states, below the age of eighteen, 300 00:17:16,796 --> 00:17:21,036 Speaker 1: because either states had no minimum age of marriage, or 301 00:17:21,036 --> 00:17:23,236 Speaker 1: they had a minimum of age of marriage at for example, 302 00:17:23,396 --> 00:17:28,116 Speaker 1: twelve or sixteen, or those states that had eighteen as 303 00:17:28,156 --> 00:17:31,476 Speaker 1: the minimum age of marriage, there were so called exemplary 304 00:17:31,596 --> 00:17:36,316 Speaker 1: clauses where basically, with the permission of your parents or 305 00:17:36,356 --> 00:17:38,796 Speaker 1: the permission of a judge, you could actually marry before 306 00:17:38,796 --> 00:17:42,316 Speaker 1: the age of eighteen. Now that's starting to change. There 307 00:17:42,316 --> 00:17:45,956 Speaker 1: are two states, New Jersey and Delaware that have changed it. 308 00:17:45,996 --> 00:17:48,276 Speaker 1: If I remember the states correctly, and we know that 309 00:17:48,316 --> 00:17:50,596 Speaker 1: they're in Massachusetts and in other states, there's now a 310 00:17:50,716 --> 00:17:53,556 Speaker 1: push to change the laws, which also helps them to 311 00:17:53,596 --> 00:17:56,956 Speaker 1: get a dialogue going. But what I found most disturbing 312 00:17:57,036 --> 00:17:59,956 Speaker 1: is when I learned that these girls take a girl 313 00:18:00,076 --> 00:18:03,236 Speaker 1: sixteen year old in the United States who gets married. 314 00:18:03,636 --> 00:18:06,396 Speaker 1: She's not allowed until she's eighteen to buy a house 315 00:18:07,036 --> 00:18:10,236 Speaker 1: because legally, for everything else, you need to be eighteen 316 00:18:10,276 --> 00:18:13,396 Speaker 1: before you can sign any contracts. She's not allowed to 317 00:18:13,516 --> 00:18:16,516 Speaker 1: vote until she's eighteen years old, because we don't trust her, 318 00:18:16,556 --> 00:18:20,396 Speaker 1: apparently with our vote. But if she ends up in 319 00:18:20,436 --> 00:18:24,476 Speaker 1: an abusive marriage, if her husband actually hits her or 320 00:18:24,836 --> 00:18:27,516 Speaker 1: mentally abuses her and she wants to escape to a 321 00:18:27,596 --> 00:18:30,876 Speaker 1: safe house, she's not allowed to enter a safe house 322 00:18:31,156 --> 00:18:33,876 Speaker 1: on her own because she's a minor. She needs her 323 00:18:33,916 --> 00:18:37,796 Speaker 1: parents permission for that, her husband's permission, and the same 324 00:18:37,836 --> 00:18:40,036 Speaker 1: way she can maybe get married, but she can't file 325 00:18:40,076 --> 00:18:42,516 Speaker 1: for a divorced or she's eighteen. So that's a crazy 326 00:18:42,556 --> 00:18:46,516 Speaker 1: situation and that clearly needs to just to change. I'm 327 00:18:46,516 --> 00:18:50,076 Speaker 1: really heartened that you think child marriage could be eliminated 328 00:18:50,116 --> 00:18:53,556 Speaker 1: by twenty thirty. That's in eleven years. How will we 329 00:18:53,596 --> 00:18:56,556 Speaker 1: see that happen? Will it be particular places that we 330 00:18:56,716 --> 00:18:59,596 Speaker 1: make dramatic progress quickly, or do you think this is 331 00:18:59,636 --> 00:19:04,916 Speaker 1: going to be a simultaneous global phenomenon of consciousness and 332 00:19:04,956 --> 00:19:08,636 Speaker 1: reduction and child marriage. It will have to be a 333 00:19:08,756 --> 00:19:12,356 Speaker 1: magic call mix of all that. So we've looked at, okay, 334 00:19:12,436 --> 00:19:14,956 Speaker 1: how do you end child marriage? And we've worked together 335 00:19:14,996 --> 00:19:18,876 Speaker 1: with one hundred and fifty experts worldwide on looking at 336 00:19:18,916 --> 00:19:21,876 Speaker 1: what are the interventions needed to end child marriage? And 337 00:19:21,916 --> 00:19:23,396 Speaker 1: that work took us a year and a half and 338 00:19:23,476 --> 00:19:26,076 Speaker 1: we developed a theory of change which can be found 339 00:19:26,116 --> 00:19:29,916 Speaker 1: on the Girls Not Brides dot org website, and basically 340 00:19:29,956 --> 00:19:32,156 Speaker 1: we found there are four kinds of interventions that need 341 00:19:32,156 --> 00:19:34,756 Speaker 1: to happen. First, as you need to empower girls. You 342 00:19:34,796 --> 00:19:37,956 Speaker 1: need them to realize that they have rights and that 343 00:19:38,036 --> 00:19:41,276 Speaker 1: child marriage is not necessarily a legal nor a good thing. 344 00:19:41,676 --> 00:19:43,836 Speaker 1: But just empowering girls is not going to do the 345 00:19:43,876 --> 00:19:46,676 Speaker 1: trick on its own, because girls constant up to their 346 00:19:46,676 --> 00:19:50,276 Speaker 1: parents on their own. Secondly, you need to sensitize those 347 00:19:50,276 --> 00:19:52,676 Speaker 1: who make the decision in the community about when the 348 00:19:52,756 --> 00:19:55,636 Speaker 1: girls should get married. The decision makers so that can 349 00:19:55,676 --> 00:19:58,836 Speaker 1: be the parents, can be the local religious or traditional leaders, 350 00:19:59,196 --> 00:20:01,076 Speaker 1: and you need to do that as we were discussing 351 00:20:01,116 --> 00:20:03,716 Speaker 1: in a respectful way. Thirdly, you need to make sure 352 00:20:03,756 --> 00:20:06,436 Speaker 1: that there are alternative services for these girls. So there 353 00:20:06,476 --> 00:20:08,636 Speaker 1: needs to be education because if you keep a girl 354 00:20:08,636 --> 00:20:12,316 Speaker 1: out of marriage but you can't educate her, you're not 355 00:20:12,356 --> 00:20:15,116 Speaker 1: really helping her. Similarly, you know, you need to make 356 00:20:15,156 --> 00:20:19,156 Speaker 1: sure that she gets a reproductive health education and un Fourthly, 357 00:20:19,316 --> 00:20:21,676 Speaker 1: we need to make sure that there are policies and 358 00:20:21,796 --> 00:20:25,036 Speaker 1: laws in place and actually getting implemented. And if you 359 00:20:25,116 --> 00:20:27,796 Speaker 1: do all these things, then we know you can make progress. 360 00:20:28,036 --> 00:20:30,836 Speaker 1: Now that sounds complex, but at the same time, we 361 00:20:30,876 --> 00:20:33,436 Speaker 1: see a lot of momentum in people wanting to do this, 362 00:20:33,636 --> 00:20:36,196 Speaker 1: and again, something being complex doesn't mean that it can't 363 00:20:36,196 --> 00:20:38,756 Speaker 1: be done. So we need to do that country by 364 00:20:38,796 --> 00:20:44,596 Speaker 1: country by country by country, and local non governmental organizations 365 00:20:44,596 --> 00:20:46,396 Speaker 1: are going to play a big role in that because 366 00:20:46,396 --> 00:20:49,156 Speaker 1: they're the ones that can really work in the community 367 00:20:49,316 --> 00:20:52,036 Speaker 1: with the parents and with the families who do this. 368 00:20:52,476 --> 00:20:54,916 Speaker 1: But at the same time, when you have governments putting 369 00:20:54,916 --> 00:20:57,676 Speaker 1: their weight behind this and saying, you know, we the 370 00:20:57,716 --> 00:21:00,756 Speaker 1: government of Mozambique are now making sure that all our 371 00:21:00,836 --> 00:21:03,796 Speaker 1: laws say are consistent and say eighteen is the minimum 372 00:21:03,796 --> 00:21:06,316 Speaker 1: major of marriage, and we're going to have government policy 373 00:21:06,356 --> 00:21:09,996 Speaker 1: on ending child marriage. That helps to create momentum and 374 00:21:10,036 --> 00:21:12,996 Speaker 1: there what we see then, is that governments, once they 375 00:21:13,076 --> 00:21:15,316 Speaker 1: start because this issue is now on the global agenda 376 00:21:15,436 --> 00:21:18,436 Speaker 1: and not longer ignored, governments start competing for wanting to 377 00:21:18,476 --> 00:21:20,516 Speaker 1: be the front runner. So what we need to do 378 00:21:20,556 --> 00:21:23,316 Speaker 1: is on the one end, change on a grassroots level, 379 00:21:23,916 --> 00:21:25,796 Speaker 1: but we also need to see change happening at a 380 00:21:25,876 --> 00:21:28,396 Speaker 1: national level, and then we need that kind of global 381 00:21:28,476 --> 00:21:31,956 Speaker 1: competition and make the issue relevant or keep it relevant 382 00:21:31,996 --> 00:21:34,796 Speaker 1: on a global level. And it's really exciting to see 383 00:21:34,836 --> 00:21:37,316 Speaker 1: that that's happening. And what I think then what happens 384 00:21:37,556 --> 00:21:41,316 Speaker 1: if you get this accelerator because people start seeing positive 385 00:21:41,396 --> 00:21:44,756 Speaker 1: change happening. And what I've learned over my years working 386 00:21:44,756 --> 00:21:47,516 Speaker 1: on creating social change, not just in the field of 387 00:21:47,556 --> 00:21:50,436 Speaker 1: child marriage but also in other areas, is when there's 388 00:21:50,636 --> 00:21:53,836 Speaker 1: positive momentum, people want to be part of it. It 389 00:21:53,996 --> 00:21:56,596 Speaker 1: really it works like a magnet. And so I'm sure 390 00:21:56,636 --> 00:21:58,836 Speaker 1: that with the progress we're seeing, we're only going to 391 00:21:58,956 --> 00:22:01,356 Speaker 1: pull in more people who want to help to create change, 392 00:22:01,516 --> 00:22:03,516 Speaker 1: and we're going to see more villages that say, look, 393 00:22:03,516 --> 00:22:05,836 Speaker 1: we actually want to end child marriage, and so then 394 00:22:05,836 --> 00:22:09,316 Speaker 1: it will start spreading like a wildfire, which is what 395 00:22:09,396 --> 00:22:11,596 Speaker 1: makes me hopeful that we can actually do this in 396 00:22:11,676 --> 00:22:14,876 Speaker 1: what might seem very ambitious in an eleven or twelve 397 00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:18,636 Speaker 1: year timeframe. May, well, it's wonderful that you've taken on 398 00:22:18,676 --> 00:22:20,916 Speaker 1: this problem the way you have. What are some of 399 00:22:20,956 --> 00:22:23,596 Speaker 1: the things listeners can do if they want to get 400 00:22:23,636 --> 00:22:26,956 Speaker 1: involved or help reduce and leading towards the elimination of 401 00:22:27,036 --> 00:22:30,236 Speaker 1: child marriage. Well, what would first of all be wonderful 402 00:22:30,316 --> 00:22:33,916 Speaker 1: is that if listeners could help to raise awareness about 403 00:22:33,916 --> 00:22:36,916 Speaker 1: the issue, because yes, compared to a decade ago, there's 404 00:22:37,036 --> 00:22:41,636 Speaker 1: much more attention to child marriage, but it isn't enough yet. Secondly, 405 00:22:41,756 --> 00:22:44,316 Speaker 1: what listeners can do is those who work in the 406 00:22:44,396 --> 00:22:48,476 Speaker 1: development field, actually, if they work on issues of violence 407 00:22:48,476 --> 00:22:51,276 Speaker 1: against children, if they work on education, if they work 408 00:22:51,396 --> 00:22:54,756 Speaker 1: on maternal health, if they work on family planning, in 409 00:22:54,796 --> 00:22:56,996 Speaker 1: whatever programs they do, it would be good if they 410 00:22:57,036 --> 00:22:59,436 Speaker 1: take into account the impact that this child marriage is 411 00:22:59,476 --> 00:23:02,876 Speaker 1: having on their work. And then people who are not 412 00:23:02,996 --> 00:23:05,956 Speaker 1: in this field, working in this field, but who feel 413 00:23:05,996 --> 00:23:09,636 Speaker 1: passionate about this issue, I would encourage them to become 414 00:23:09,676 --> 00:23:12,516 Speaker 1: part of a new initiative that we've started, which is 415 00:23:12,556 --> 00:23:17,076 Speaker 1: called the Vow to End Child Marriage vow like a vow, 416 00:23:17,156 --> 00:23:20,876 Speaker 1: taking a vow and the idea of VOW is basically 417 00:23:20,916 --> 00:23:24,116 Speaker 1: that everybody in the world can help work together and 418 00:23:24,196 --> 00:23:26,796 Speaker 1: can actually make a contribution to end child marriage. And 419 00:23:26,876 --> 00:23:30,836 Speaker 1: what we're doing is specifically targeting the wedding industry because 420 00:23:30,876 --> 00:23:34,436 Speaker 1: we believe that it should be possible when a couple 421 00:23:34,876 --> 00:23:40,196 Speaker 1: in the rich and West gets married and say I 422 00:23:40,316 --> 00:23:43,276 Speaker 1: do to each other, that they can then help girls 423 00:23:43,316 --> 00:23:46,756 Speaker 1: elsewhere in the world to say I don't. And so 424 00:23:46,796 --> 00:23:48,676 Speaker 1: what we're trying to do is make it possible for 425 00:23:48,716 --> 00:23:51,356 Speaker 1: people who are getting married, or who are renewing their vows, 426 00:23:51,476 --> 00:23:55,236 Speaker 1: or who are celebrating their twentieth wedding anniversary to do 427 00:23:55,316 --> 00:23:58,436 Speaker 1: three things. One is they can actually register their wedding 428 00:23:58,476 --> 00:24:01,916 Speaker 1: registry lists with the note and if they align it 429 00:24:01,916 --> 00:24:05,276 Speaker 1: with VOW, then up to three percent of all the 430 00:24:05,356 --> 00:24:08,436 Speaker 1: gifts that money will be given to VOW to support 431 00:24:08,476 --> 00:24:12,236 Speaker 1: grassroots work, to enter out marriage, to work in the communities. Secondly, 432 00:24:12,236 --> 00:24:14,876 Speaker 1: you can buy VOW specific VOWL products, like they are 433 00:24:15,276 --> 00:24:18,476 Speaker 1: specific wedding dresses, and they're going to be other products 434 00:24:18,476 --> 00:24:20,876 Speaker 1: that if you buy them, a percentage or a fixed 435 00:24:20,876 --> 00:24:23,916 Speaker 1: amount will actually go to VOW. And lastly, I mean 436 00:24:23,996 --> 00:24:26,236 Speaker 1: we live in an age where people feel often they 437 00:24:26,276 --> 00:24:30,236 Speaker 1: already have everything and they don't need more more stuff 438 00:24:30,236 --> 00:24:33,516 Speaker 1: in their houses. And so people who feel that way, 439 00:24:33,596 --> 00:24:36,316 Speaker 1: they can maybe make a donation to vow instead of 440 00:24:36,436 --> 00:24:39,276 Speaker 1: asking for gifts. So the idea here is that we're 441 00:24:39,316 --> 00:24:42,236 Speaker 1: going to get companies and people working in the wedding 442 00:24:42,276 --> 00:24:46,076 Speaker 1: industry with k baking cakes or doing the wedding flowers, 443 00:24:46,156 --> 00:24:48,796 Speaker 1: or doing the wedding hair or the wedding makeup, or 444 00:24:48,916 --> 00:24:52,196 Speaker 1: couples and their friends and family that everybody unites in 445 00:24:52,316 --> 00:24:55,116 Speaker 1: order to make sure that girls elsewhere in the world 446 00:24:55,196 --> 00:24:57,916 Speaker 1: can decide whether they want to get married, with whom 447 00:24:57,916 --> 00:25:00,876 Speaker 1: they want to get married, and most importantly, when they 448 00:25:00,876 --> 00:25:04,076 Speaker 1: want to get married. Mabel, thanks for joining us Unsolvable. 449 00:25:05,036 --> 00:25:07,716 Speaker 1: Thank you for talking about this. I hope that by 450 00:25:07,716 --> 00:25:10,036 Speaker 1: working together we can make sure that all girls can 451 00:25:10,076 --> 00:25:15,516 Speaker 1: be girls and all brides. Wow. Well, that conversation certainly 452 00:25:15,596 --> 00:25:19,036 Speaker 1: upended some assumptions that I had about child marriage. I 453 00:25:19,036 --> 00:25:21,676 Speaker 1: didn't know the worldwide issue, and I didn't know how 454 00:25:21,756 --> 00:25:26,476 Speaker 1: big a problem it was twelve million girls. But also, 455 00:25:26,716 --> 00:25:30,396 Speaker 1: as Mabel said, just because an issue is complex and 456 00:25:30,516 --> 00:25:33,276 Speaker 1: big doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and 457 00:25:33,316 --> 00:25:36,796 Speaker 1: ignore it. I love Mabel's suggestion for a couple's planning 458 00:25:36,836 --> 00:25:40,236 Speaker 1: a wedding. To use that opportunity to help VOW, you 459 00:25:40,276 --> 00:25:44,036 Speaker 1: can donate, You can buy VOW products or register your 460 00:25:44,036 --> 00:25:47,236 Speaker 1: wedding with them, and all the proceeds go to Girls 461 00:25:47,316 --> 00:25:51,796 Speaker 1: First Fund, who distribute them to local organizations across Africa, Asia, 462 00:25:51,956 --> 00:25:56,756 Speaker 1: Latin America and the Caribbean. These organizations work tirelessly to 463 00:25:56,876 --> 00:26:00,316 Speaker 1: prevent child marriage. So you're a big day that could 464 00:26:00,316 --> 00:26:05,756 Speaker 1: mean something to girls everywhere. Solvable is a collaboration between 465 00:26:05,836 --> 00:26:10,276 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries and the Rockefella Foundation, with production by Laura Hyde, 466 00:26:10,516 --> 00:26:14,316 Speaker 1: Hester Kant, Laura Sheeter, and Ruth Barnes from Chalk and Blade. 467 00:26:14,716 --> 00:26:19,116 Speaker 1: Pushkin's executive producer is Neia LaBelle, Research by Sheer, Vincent, 468 00:26:19,556 --> 00:26:23,996 Speaker 1: engineering by Jason Gambrell and the Great Folks at GSI Studios. 469 00:26:24,476 --> 00:26:28,156 Speaker 1: Original music composed by Pascal Wise and special thanks to 470 00:26:28,356 --> 00:26:33,436 Speaker 1: Maggie Taylor, Heather Fine, Julia Barton, Carli Mgliori, Jacob Weisberg 471 00:26:33,476 --> 00:26:37,076 Speaker 1: and Malcolm Gladwell. You can learn more about solving Today's 472 00:26:37,076 --> 00:26:42,756 Speaker 1: biggest problems at Rockefeller Foundation dot org, slash Solvable. I'm 473 00:26:42,796 --> 00:26:44,716 Speaker 1: Mave Higgins. Now go solve it.