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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller, I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us again on another episode

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Speaker 2: of Hot Pursuit. I will start out at the top

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Speaker 2: this time and remind you can email us. Hannah, what's

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Speaker 2: the email address.

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Speaker 1: It's Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net. It's Hot Pursuit

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net. B E R G an et.

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Speaker 2: And we do at least I respond.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, oh, we will email you back if you're

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Speaker 1: not spam.

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Speaker 2: We'll take your questions seriously, and suggestions are always welcome.

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Speaker 2: I want to just run through what we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about today quickly, because it's not much beyond our

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Speaker 2: interview with Emily Miller of the Rebel Rally. She of

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Speaker 2: King of the Hammers and so many other rally firsts

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Speaker 2: for women. Very cool and the whole queen. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: But we also have a new portche to talk about

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Speaker 2: right coming, and an old Jag to talk about that I.

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Speaker 1: New Porsha, old Jag.

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Speaker 2: Yes, let's kick it off quickly with the new Porsche

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Speaker 2: because the news broke this week.

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Speaker 1: The electric Macon is out. Porsche has announced it will

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Speaker 1: be arriving halfway through the year in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: and we do have some specs and numbers on it.

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Speaker 1: It's exciting. I mean it's like maybe a couple years late.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is only we've been waiting forever. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is only Porscha's second all electric vehicle and it's

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Speaker 1: been ten years since we saw the first Macon, the

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Speaker 1: combustion engine mccon come out. So yeah, it's I'd say

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Speaker 1: it's about time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's very cool. I love the sort

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Speaker 2: of tall station wagon package of these SUVs or crossovers

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Speaker 2: or overs or whatever you want to call them. And

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Speaker 2: I think the Macon has been a laggard in its class.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't have a V eight and this is kind

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Speaker 2: of an equalizer electric electrification.

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Speaker 1: I think it will be very interesting to see how

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Speaker 1: it does. Of course, Macon is a great selling vehicle

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Speaker 1: for Portie and second only to the Cayenne last year,

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Speaker 1: I believe. And this new Macon, the electric one, is

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Speaker 1: boasting over six hundred horse power, which is considerably more

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Speaker 1: than the Macons that we see that are in the

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Speaker 1: four hundred range. It's a lot heavier than the combustion

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Speaker 1: engine Macons. It weighs over five thousand pounds, so it's heavier,

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Speaker 1: more horsepower, same towing capacity about forty four hundred towing

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Speaker 1: capacity range, and we have yet to see full EPA

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Speaker 1: numbers on how efficient it's going to be and mileage.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, if it goes the way it's

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Speaker 2: been going, it'll be not as much range as a Tesla,

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Speaker 2: but probably way more fun to drive. And neither of

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Speaker 2: them will come close to the kind of range that

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Speaker 2: Chevy and GM are giving us in their electric vehicles,

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Speaker 2: but they have gigantic battery packs. I wonder the electric

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Speaker 2: Maccon is really interesting and I can't wait to see it.

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Speaker 2: We don't really know enough about it yet obviously won't

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Speaker 2: be able to drive it for a long time. I

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Speaker 2: wonder your take on the segment in general, mccons, and

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Speaker 2: also the Kayen. And why does Porsche, which has famed

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Speaker 2: for a flat six, put a super boring V six

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Speaker 2: motor in these like why not at least drive a

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Speaker 2: Macon with a boxer engine.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I never understood that it has to

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Speaker 1: come down to money, right, Yeah, I mean it has

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Speaker 1: to come down to efficiencies of scale and also sharing

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Speaker 1: within within the family, within the group, within the Volkswagen group.

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Speaker 1: It has to come down to that. I have to

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Speaker 1: believe that. But it is difficult to really feel an

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Speaker 1: emotional draw to these SUVs, even though they are Porsche's, yes,

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Speaker 1: and they do sell well and we need them, you know,

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Speaker 1: to pay for other vehicles that are being made.

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Speaker 2: I drove a car this week that I think blows

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Speaker 2: away the Macan or Audi, BMW, Mercedes, any other sort

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Speaker 2: of small suv, and that is the Jaguar F Pace SVR.

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Speaker 1: That's a car I haven't thought about in a long time.

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Speaker 2: I haven't even really thought about the brand, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: in so long. I mean, they went from these really

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Speaker 2: cool XJ sixes and you know, the XK twelve to

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Speaker 2: to kind of nothing after they went from Ford to Tata.

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Speaker 2: I think the cars they released were boring. It was

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Speaker 2: cool that Idris Elbow was driving one, but otherwise I've.

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Speaker 1: Been watching reruns of The Wire. I mean, Idris Elba

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Speaker 1: is always cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess the the F type itself

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Speaker 2: was exciting for a moment, and then I didn't really

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Speaker 2: think about that either, and this just showed up in

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Speaker 2: my driveway it's got the supercharged five liters V eight

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Speaker 2: that they I think developed even before FOR bought them.

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Speaker 2: But that's like that's the that's their flat six, you know.

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Speaker 2: And it sounds better than any other small or large

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Speaker 2: suv crossover that I've driven, including the Maserati Gricalai Trofeo,

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Speaker 2: and Maseratis typically do really well on the sound. That's

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Speaker 2: also only a six cylinder, so this is the only

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Speaker 2: I think supercharged V eight aside from its kind of

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Speaker 2: sister land Rover Range Rover Sport right, that you can get.

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Speaker 2: And it's so kind of understated. I didn't even really

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Speaker 2: notice it in my driveway, but when you get behind

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Speaker 2: the wheel, it's just a beast.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think we are not thinking about that

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Speaker 1: as an option?

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Speaker 2: I think the design is boring, frankly. I mean you

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Speaker 2: could look at it as elegant and understated, or you

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Speaker 2: could say it's boring and not special. But everything in

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Speaker 2: the cabin I thought was really well done. It's perfectly

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Speaker 2: laid out. It's not interesting, but it's just very very good.

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Speaker 2: And I wonder if that's just Jaguar has, at least

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Speaker 2: in my lifetime, never really pushed the limits, right They

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Speaker 2: it wasn't a sports car, but it was like a

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Speaker 2: big Grand Tour. The V twelve was big and luxurious,

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Speaker 2: but not fast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Jaguar to me suffers from a little bit of

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Speaker 1: an identity crisis because it's like, if you want very

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Speaker 1: futuristic technology, you go to Mercedes. If you want super

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Speaker 1: sporty performance, you go to Porsche. If you want, you know,

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Speaker 1: the ultimate driving machine, you got BMW. So you have

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Speaker 1: these like very strong brand identities. And if you ask

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Speaker 1: me what Jaguar means right now, I don't really know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. They could just never really grow.

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Speaker 2: They did have like an interesting history. They had a

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Speaker 2: lot of race wins. I think at Lamon they had

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Speaker 2: a really cool six cylinder engine that they developed first,

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Speaker 2: then the twelve. The XJS has these flying buttresses on

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Speaker 2: the back.

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Speaker 1: Of the amazing design. I love an I love driving

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Speaker 1: the E type. I love the old ones, even the

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Speaker 1: two plus two that looks a little bit awkward, it's great.

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Speaker 1: And of course like the D type, just like you

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Speaker 1: say it has.

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Speaker 2: With the big kind of section behind the drive head.

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Speaker 1: This is a blue chip type vehicle. But yeah, in

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Speaker 1: terms of the modern day, it feels like they haven't

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Speaker 1: leveraged that somehow.

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Speaker 2: All Right, well, I guess that's enough sort of uh

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Speaker 2: mini suv crossover.

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Speaker 1: Talk for now. We don't want to overdose because we.

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Speaker 2: Have an awesome interview with a woman who is in

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Speaker 2: a sense a pioneer in uh in racing, but it's

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Speaker 2: rally racing. And yeah, not just behind the wheel, but

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Speaker 2: also behind the scenes, like she has run some of

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Speaker 2: these events and won some of these events.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of the events. I mean, Emily Miller,

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Speaker 1: I think is one of the most decorated off road

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Speaker 1: racers period, male or female, and has been involved in

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Speaker 1: this for decades, really making things happen. The first woman

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Speaker 1: to drive solo and Emily tell me, you know, as

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Speaker 1: I roll through your credit credits if I get these

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Speaker 1: wrong or need to embellish them, but the first woman

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Speaker 1: to drive solo from Vegas to Reno off road correct.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was in the Vegas to Reno off road race.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, you have numerous podium finishes and wins

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Speaker 1: to your credit, including the Baja one thousand. Emily started

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Speaker 1: the Rebel Rally, which I have to say I've participated

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Speaker 1: in it and it was the best run car event.

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Speaker 1: I have ever been involved with or been around period

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Speaker 1: in terms of logistics, people planning, total organization. And of

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Speaker 1: course Emily has been so instrumental in King of the

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Speaker 1: Hammers as well, and I definitely want to talk about

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Speaker 1: that too. I know you've had some changes lately regarding

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Speaker 1: your involvement, but I mean, talk about someone who's been

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Speaker 1: involved in off roading for decades and has seen it

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Speaker 1: from a lot of different perspective.

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Speaker 2: Why don't we just start with how you got started?

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Speaker 2: What did you what got you into this?

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Speaker 3: Sure, you know it's a great story. I was. I

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Speaker 3: grew up loving cars. You know, I had a dad

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Speaker 3: that you know, I loved dearly, spent so much time

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Speaker 3: with when it came to cars. And you know, from

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Speaker 3: growing up reading reading car magazines next to the fire

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Speaker 3: at night, wondering why there were no women who were

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Speaker 3: reviewing cars when I was a little kid, you know,

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Speaker 3: I found those old stacks of Road and Track and

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Speaker 3: Car and Driver and to I own a sports marketing

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Speaker 3: company and one of the things that I was doing

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Speaker 3: is I was working with the Tourism Authority, one of

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Speaker 3: the toursm authorities in Nevada, and I was at a

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Speaker 3: meeting at the Hara Car Collection the National Auto Museum,

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Speaker 3: and you know, it's a great collection. And I was

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Speaker 3: in this meeting of the board members and I met

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Speaker 3: this guy named Rod Hall. And Rod Hall was one

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Speaker 3: of the most winning offered races in the history of

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Speaker 3: the sport. He had the longest unbroken race win string,

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Speaker 3: which is thirty five straight race wins. He was the

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Speaker 3: only person to race every single Baja one thousand for

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Speaker 3: fifty years and won his last I think it was

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Speaker 3: twenty four times, first American to finish the Dakhar rally.

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Speaker 3: You know. So he's this legend. And I got to

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Speaker 3: know Rod, and you know, I at the time was

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Speaker 3: producing some really tough to produce events for companies such

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Speaker 3: as Red Bull. You know, they always have the great

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Speaker 3: wild idea, and you know, I got to know him,

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Speaker 3: and he taught me how to drive. And one day

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Speaker 3: we are on our way to a meeting and he said, hey,

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Speaker 3: I have my new driver. He was driving for General

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Speaker 3: Motors at the time. He had driven for Dodge, for Ford,

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Speaker 3: and for Hummer and General Motors. And he said I

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Speaker 3: have my new driver. And I said, great, who is it?

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Speaker 3: And he said it's you and I thought. He meant, Okay,

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Speaker 3: you're going to take these cars and you're going to

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Speaker 3: gorilla market them, you know at the events. You do

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Speaker 3: you know, I didn't quite understand. And he said, look,

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Speaker 3: you know I can teach you how to drive, you're

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Speaker 3: going to have to learn how to win. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I got to see Baja from you know, driving with him,

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Speaker 3: you know, hearing all his old stories to the back

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Speaker 3: roads of California and Nevada and all over to Australia,

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Speaker 3: and you know, he came and supported me when I

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Speaker 3: was competing in Africa, and you know, I had this

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Speaker 3: incredible mentor that so many people don't get. So I

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Speaker 3: feel like I had so many incredible lessons fast tracked

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Speaker 3: for me. I mean, my the first time I actually

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Speaker 3: drove in the Baha one thousand, Rod was sitting in

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Speaker 3: the right seat, you know, and we jump in and

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Speaker 3: he goes, I don't think I've ever sat in this

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Speaker 3: seatore and you know, talking about pressure. But you know

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Speaker 3: what was so great is I got to learn from

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Speaker 3: a legend. And you know he also had he had

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Speaker 3: a really great statement that really resonated and really helped

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Speaker 3: me because you know, I own a marketing company and

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Speaker 3: production company. And he said, look, it's really really hard

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Speaker 3: to be a pro driver. You know, only a few

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Speaker 3: people will make it. You know a lot of drivers

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Speaker 3: out there are paying their way, et cetera. He said,

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Speaker 3: but what you can do with your race experience and

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Speaker 3: your experience on the other side of what you do,

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Speaker 3: you can combine too for great business. And that was

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Speaker 3: really good advice. I was fortunate I got to be

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Speaker 3: a demo driver and then eventually run his program for

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Speaker 3: BEF Good Richard Michelin where we coached and trained people

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Speaker 3: throughout the year and that was a great experience. So

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Speaker 3: that's where it started from and came from. And then I,

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Speaker 3: you know, really worked hard to take those lessons and

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Speaker 3: apply them across the industry. And I love that. It's

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Speaker 3: a long version.

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Speaker 2: I just want to I just want to reiterate. So

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Speaker 2: Rod Hall was in fifty straight, fifty consecutive Baja one

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Speaker 2: thousand races and he had class wins in twenty five

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Speaker 2: of them. So he had, at least, at his passing

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Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen, the most desert off road race wins

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Speaker 2: of any human right, that's crazy, yes, And he was.

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Speaker 3: Also the only person who has won the overall in

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Speaker 3: a stock four by four.

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Speaker 1: Wow, and that was Bronco Wow.

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Speaker 3: And that feet hasn't been reproduced. So, you know, just

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Speaker 3: such a legend, you know, to learn from someone like that,

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Speaker 3: you know, I just kind of I still have to.

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Speaker 3: I always go back and say thanks to Rod, you know,

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Speaker 3: for bringing me into this space. You know, I was

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Speaker 3: back in the ski and mountain bike world, you know,

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Speaker 3: and cycling world, and you know, he just said, hey,

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Speaker 3: you know, all those skills translate, but they translate to

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Speaker 3: four wheels.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, you know, did he

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Speaker 1: ever tell you what did he see in you? Emily

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Speaker 1: that let him know this person is really someone who's

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Speaker 1: going to be receptive to what I have to teach her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he sure did. And I also pass that lesson

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Speaker 3: along to other people because I think it's really important.

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Speaker 3: First of all, I never give up. I hate to

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Speaker 3: give up. I work really hard. I love being on

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Speaker 3: a team, and I am coachable. I don't believe I

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Speaker 3: have all the answers. I don't believe I know it all.

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Speaker 3: And I also always believe that we can keep learning.

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Speaker 3: And he said, that's what it takes. You know, you

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Speaker 3: have to never give up. And he also said that

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Speaker 3: you know, sometimes you have to break bad habits and

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Speaker 3: drivers and you have to be able to leave your

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Speaker 3: ego at the door and say, you know, I'm not

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Speaker 3: the best at this. You know I need to work

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Speaker 3: on things. And so he just said. You know, that

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Speaker 3: really made him comfortable to take that time, because you know,

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Speaker 3: he said. One of the things he said to me

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Speaker 3: in the first days is he said, we're going to

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Speaker 3: go train for Vegas Tono. He goes, that's the first

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Speaker 3: race I want you to do. And he said, if

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Speaker 3: you can't learn how to left foot break in an hour,

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Speaker 3: this will be over.

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Speaker 1: No pressure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no pressure, he goes, I won't have time to

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Speaker 3: fix all the things that you're going to break if

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Speaker 3: you can't left foot break. So he goes, you have

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Speaker 3: an hour.

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Speaker 2: So part of it is about acquiring those skills, it's learned.

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Speaker 2: Part of it must be innate, right because I've noticed

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Speaker 2: so many people who are better drivers than me or

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Speaker 2: better motorcycle riders are better in fist fights, which hasn't

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Speaker 2: I haven't been involved in a fist fight since like

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Speaker 2: elementary school. But they just have a lack of fear

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Speaker 2: in a way I can't give nine tenths on a

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Speaker 2: track because I'm afraid I'll crash, and the best have

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Speaker 2: to be willing to take that risk to some extent,

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Speaker 2: isn't it true?

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Speaker 3: That is true. I think it's a little bit different

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Speaker 3: in different forms of racing. Let's say stock driving a

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Speaker 3: stock car off road a stock truck is different than

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Speaker 3: driving let's say a trophy truck or a t one

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Speaker 3: car because you do I mean, you just have to

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Speaker 3: put it out all on the line, you know, on

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Speaker 3: the track. I believe it's true. You know you're a

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Speaker 3: laguna seka and you need to late break. You need

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Speaker 3: to late break going into turn two into the Andretti hairpin,

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Speaker 3: and you've got to be willing to pretty much put

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Speaker 3: it into the wall and you could die. And so

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Speaker 3: there is some of that.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: That's what I think the reason why I probably excel

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Speaker 3: more at endurance because I would actually like to live

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Speaker 3: and endurance racing in a stock manufacturer vehicle is a

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Speaker 3: little different. It really means that you can go out

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Speaker 3: and you have enough time to be smart. You don't

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Speaker 3: want to lose time, but you don't want to waste

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Speaker 3: time by crashing, breaking or flatting and so you can

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Speaker 3: have a little bit of self preservation. But when you

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Speaker 3: get into these unlimited classes, yeah, that lack of fear,

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Speaker 3: you know, not worrying about family at home, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: I think that's important. So I think that people can

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Speaker 3: really excel if they find in automotive or in competing,

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Speaker 3: if they find the type of racing that works for

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Speaker 3: their strengths. And what's great about automotive and competing is

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Speaker 3: that there are enough different classes and cars and things

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Speaker 3: like that that you can find your niche.

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Speaker 1: I was just going to ask you, you know, for

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Speaker 1: people who may not be familiar with these different names,

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Speaker 1: we're just tossing off like Baja one thousand and King

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Speaker 1: of the Hammers and Rebel tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: specifically about the Rebel Rally. I know this is really

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Speaker 1: for me. This was how I got to know you

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Speaker 1: and know about you. Obviously, you know, I know that

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Speaker 1: you finished really high in the Gazelle Rally Morocco Gazelle.

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Speaker 1: Rebel tell us about the Rebel Rally and what kind

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Speaker 1: of driving and talent and skill that specifically demands for

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Speaker 1: the people who are really successful.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and actually I would say that the Rebel Rally

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Speaker 3: is actually a product of the things that Rod taught

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Speaker 3: me and the things that I felt were missing and

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Speaker 3: that Rod felt was missing in the space of off

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Speaker 3: road and for manufacturers. So the Rebel Rally is the

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Speaker 3: longest competitive off road rally in the United States. It

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Speaker 3: is for stock manufacturer vehicles, and it's a competition for points,

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Speaker 3: not fastest speed. And it is designed it is truly

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Speaker 3: for stock manufactured vehicles, not unlimited race cars. So you

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Speaker 3: can enter in a car in a four x four

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Speaker 3: or what we call x cross, which is more like

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Speaker 3: crossover class or an all wheel drive class. We call it.

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Speaker 3: We think it sounds cooler than crossover. But that event

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Speaker 3: is ten days. It's eight days of competition. It is

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Speaker 3: ten hour stages per day, although some people are out

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Speaker 3: there fourteen fifteen hours a day, not on purpose.

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Speaker 1: Not on purpose correct, Yes.

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Speaker 3: And it's based on traditional navigation, so we say it's

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Speaker 3: precision driving and precision navigating, and it is based on

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Speaker 3: two types of challenges. Those two types are in duro

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Speaker 3: challenges which are traditional like regularity roadbook stages where you

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Speaker 3: have to be very accurate on arriving on time to

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Speaker 3: waigh points, whether they are mark they're always marked, but

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Speaker 3: whether there you can guess where they are, you know,

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Speaker 3: on the roadbook, or whether they're sort of hidden controls.

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Speaker 3: The other type of challenge, which makes up a lot

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Speaker 3: of the bulk of the points is map and compass.

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Speaker 3: So there's no GPS, there's no cell phones, you don't

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Speaker 3: get your cell phone at night. You're cut off for

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Speaker 3: eight days. Extreme and you are traditionally navigating and sometimes

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Speaker 3: those stages, you know, they can be four hundred kilometers

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Speaker 3: in a day navigating with a compass and a map

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Speaker 3: and some maybe from book sections. Yeah, so it's not

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Speaker 3: like these like stages where half the stage is just

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Speaker 3: getting to the next point. It's like the whole day

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Speaker 3: is a stage. So really demanding the checkpoints, we made

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Speaker 3: our own scoring system. We wanted at highest points, not

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Speaker 3: lowest points traditional and rally, which is lowest points highest

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Speaker 3: points is to push people to kind of go for

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Speaker 3: that hail married pass, you know, so you're not just

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Speaker 3: falling off the back and collecting penalties like you normally do.

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Speaker 3: And rally and they're rated like a ski run green,

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Speaker 3: blue and black dimond checkpoints and you know I come

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Speaker 3: from you know, an outdoor world ski cycling world, so

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Speaker 3: that scoring system of green, blue and black dime in

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Speaker 3: checkpoints really appeals to a lot of people. Yeah, it

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Speaker 3: makes sense. And you know black time in checkpoint isn't

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Speaker 3: even marked. You have to use triangulation, heading and distance

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Speaker 3: to nail a checkpoint within and it scored like a bullseye.

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Speaker 1: And this is out in the middle of nowhere with

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Speaker 1: no context for anything at all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, you know, And how do you get found

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Speaker 3: when you get lost? You know, you really have to

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Speaker 3: dig down deep and it is a really tough challenge.

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Speaker 3: It happens to be all women, and I always say

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Speaker 3: it happened.

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Speaker 2: I did not know that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's the thing, you know, like it's sixty

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Speaker 3: percent of our audience, you know, our men, and they

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Speaker 3: all want to do it. But I wanted to build

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Speaker 3: a world class car rally for stock manufacturer vehicles that

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Speaker 3: we can drive at our dealerships. And then I wanted

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Speaker 3: it to be for women because you know, when I

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Speaker 3: was racing, I was usually one of the only women.

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Speaker 3: And now there are a lot more women in race

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Speaker 3: and it's great and I love seeing it. But people

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Speaker 3: say there are so many women in racing, and I

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Speaker 3: still go two percent of the veiel. Yeah, well we're

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Speaker 3: fifty percent of the drivers. You know, we have such

400
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Speaker 3: a profound impact on purchasing of vehicles. Why are we

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Speaker 3: still one to three percent of the competitive field.

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Speaker 2: That is awesome? Yeah, you know what I'm by the

403
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Speaker 2: way I'm looking at the website is really cool because

404
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Speaker 2: it has a sweet video sort of montage of the competitions.

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Speaker 2: I guess past and you see participants. Obviously a lot

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Speaker 2: of Jeeps. I recognize Broncos straight away and Defenders, but

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Speaker 2: I also saw a Rivian, I see Hyundai's you know,

408
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Speaker 2: so there are maybe marks that you might not expect.

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Speaker 2: Are there vehicles that typically win? Do jeeps typically take

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Speaker 2: the top? Or is it more about, you know, the

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Speaker 2: driver and the navigator than it is the machine.

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Speaker 3: It is the most about the driver and the navigator

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Speaker 3: and their talent. However, Jeep holds the top rank of

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Speaker 3: number of lens and to tell you the truth, the

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Speaker 3: highest number of wins. We're in bone stock jeeps that

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Speaker 3: were not modified fair and which is really cool. This year,

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Speaker 3: the Rivian R one t won it and Rivian actually

418
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Speaker 3: debuted their first truck off the production line in the

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Speaker 3: Rebel Rally. Four years ago. We're going into our fifth year.

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Speaker 3: We really worked hard to pioneer remote, rapid sustainable power

421
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Speaker 3: on course. This year actually we powered the evs with

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Speaker 3: green hydrogen.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that was.

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Speaker 3: Made from solar and wind thanks to renewable innovations. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we've worked hard to build a proving ground for vehicles

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Speaker 3: that you can buy regardless of your powertrain.

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Speaker 2: That is cool. I see a Ford mockey.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, Yeah, I wanted to say, you know, what

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Speaker 1: have you noticed changing over the years in terms of

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Speaker 1: the visibility of this kind of race and the involvement

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Speaker 1: from manufacturers and just the amount of money for sponsorships,

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Speaker 1: advertising marketing. Tell us a little bit about how the

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Speaker 1: industry and the off roading culture has grown since you joined.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, I can speak to Rebel and

435
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 3: I can and this is also indicative of what's going on,

436
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 3: you know in places especially like King of the Hammers.

437
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 3: So what we've seen in Rebel, which is really exciting

438
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 3: is the number of manufacturers involved. It's the one competition

439
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,959
Speaker 3: where you can compete in an unmodified manufactured vehicle that

440
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 3: you purchase and you can win, and it is eight

441
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 3: days and it just proves how durable. I always say, like,

442
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 3: the vehicle in our driveway is more capable than we think.

443
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 3: And you have all this money and research in time

444
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 3: that's been spent to test these vehicles, and so you know,

445
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 3: even whether you're in a race car or you're in

446
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 3: a stock car from the dealership, you can only drive

447
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 3: it up to the level as a driver that it

448
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 3: is capable of. And that's what you're trying to do

449
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 3: without breaking it in the rebel. Whether you're in a

450
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 3: stock car, whether you're in the baham On thousand or

451
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 3: the King of the Hammers in an unlimited car, you're

452
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 3: trying to drive it to the level of its capability.

453
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 3: So what I've seen is that I think last year,

454
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 3: I believe we had eleven or ten major vehicle manufacturers

455
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 3: that supported programs. For example, Toyota put in the limit

456
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 3: of the manufacturer limit of what you can put in.

457
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 3: They put in six teams, and they put in female

458
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 3: engineers from different divisions of manufacturing, R and D, fuel Cell,

459
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 3: you know, Kelty. From their part, it was amazing. And

460
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 3: you know, we have Rivian they put in three teams.

461
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: They started out putting in journalists and that usually seems

462
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 3: to be the logical way. And then now it's been

463
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 3: so effective to test their vehicles, improve their vehicles, and

464
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 3: also to build the teamwork in leadership and you know,

465
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 3: grit skills of their employees. So Rivian put in three

466
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 3: teams of engineers wow and won the rally. And you know,

467
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 3: so that is what I've seen is a change. We

468
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 3: have new I believe we already have three new manufacturers.

469
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: Who are the new ones. Oh I can't say they,

470
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, haven't been announced yet that are in the rally.

471
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 3: For this year. The other thing that I'm seeing that

472
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 3: is a really interesting change is that they are supporting

473
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: you know, I look at Forward, I look at these

474
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 3: companies and they are putting in women in these vehicles,

475
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 3: not as a token, here's what we do for women.

476
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 3: It's because they believe in the rally, the platform, and

477
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 3: they believe in the women. And they're not they don't

478
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 3: aren't necessarily professional racers. They're women who've shown that they're

479
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:20,959
Speaker 3: great drivers, great navigators, great competitors. And they're sponsoring and

480
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 3: supporting women who aren't the stereotypical women in racing. And

481
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 3: so it's giving a lot of opportunity to women who

482
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 3: would normally you know who don't have five million followers,

483
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 3: or you know, are the one personality and a certain

484
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: sector of racing.

485
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: Zoom out and talk to me about the whole culture

486
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 2: of King of the Hammers. Rebel Baha. I didn't know

487
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: about King of the Hammers until Hannah. I saw Hanna's

488
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 2: story on the Bloomberg. But since I saw her story,

489
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: a lot more people have been doing stories on it

490
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: and it's been getting bigger and bigger. Do you see

491
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 2: that in the industry in general? Is it just growing?

492
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 3: Yes? It was interesting. I was involved with King of

493
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 3: the Hammers for thirteen years and the reason why I

494
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 3: can actually do this podcast right now is because I'm

495
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 3: not actually out on the lake bed, but cheering them

496
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 3: on remotely as I planned my adventure to go explore

497
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 3: off road the South Island of New Zealand. But what

498
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 3: I have to say is I worked really hard along

499
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 3: with the team at King of the Hammers to build

500
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: a place that people could go that weren't really represented

501
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 3: in racing and King of the Hammers. It's similar. People

502
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 3: want to do things, you know, they don't want to

503
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 3: just watch, they want to do. And what I have

504
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 3: seen also with let's say King of the Hammers is

505
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: that it started out as a place that the journalists,

506
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: the media, they wouldn't come to, they wouldn't cover there was.

507
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: That is it because we didn't understand it or was

508
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: too obscure?

509
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know it was obscure. You know, there's not

510
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 3: a five star hotel there, There's not you know, it

511
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 3: is rock, it's raw, and people thought it was just

512
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 3: slow rock crawling. And when you get to King of

513
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 3: the Hammers and the reason why I got involved, I

514
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 3: was driving and sponsored by BFG at the time, and

515
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 3: I came out and I saw Brad Level and I saw,

516
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: you know, went out with Rod and we saw this

517
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 3: action and I saw these guys racing, and I went,

518
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: are you kidding me? This is the coolest action I

519
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: have ever seen in off road or really outside of

520
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 3: F one, you know, standing at an F one track,

521
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 3: it is the best thing I've ever seen. Cars flipping over,

522
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 3: flipping over, landing on their wheels and continuing on not broken,

523
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 3: you know. I mean, it was like, oh my gosh,

524
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 3: this is crazy and people want to see that. And

525
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 3: I thought it was the most entertaining thing I'd seen.

526
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: And then I watched I got involved, and you know,

527
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 3: Dave Cole, who owns King of the Hammers, had very

528
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 3: good vision of what he wanted it to be, and

529
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 3: we said, let's go make it happen. And what I

530
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 3: think we did is we celebrated not just the top

531
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 3: racers that were winning. We celebrated every last person that

532
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 3: showed up and crossed that finish line and built this

533
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 3: place that was like mecca. You know, this this destination,

534
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: this burning Man type of event for off roaders that

535
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 3: didn't exist where you watched some other races and you

536
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 3: only saw the top one, two or three, the big

537
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 3: money teams. And what King of the Hammers is about

538
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: is about innovation. Build it. You know, it started from

539
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 3: unlimited racing. If you can innovate, build whatever you think

540
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 3: you can build to win this thing. And what's happened

541
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 3: over time. They started slow and now there are cars

542
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 3: that can climb up sheer cliffs like this descend, but

543
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 3: then they can also drive one hundred and thirty miles

544
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: per hour in the desert to string together the trails.

545
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: And what it's done is it spawned this innovation that

546
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 3: now you know, it celebrated the little the person, the

547
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: little guy you know, and and woman in the garage

548
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 3: with a welder. Then when I can make this stronger,

549
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 3: I can make this better. And now what you've seen,

550
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 3: especially with King of the Hammers, and I've seen it

551
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: there more than in any other type of off road racing,

552
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 3: is that it has spurred the most innovation in the

553
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: aftermarket and even in the mainstream market. You know, jeeps

554
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 3: now have disconnecting sway bars.

555
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: You know, so cool, and yeah, I'm curious. It's it's

556
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: so I mean, when you see the pictures, it is

557
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: like Burning Man meets Mad Max. And I think if

558
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: you're not you recognize it's cool. But if you're not

559
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: really looped in, it can be really intimidating to try

560
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: to think it even about becoming involved or even just

561
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: going out to watch. So what do you advise people

562
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: who say, I know this is cool, I really want

563
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: to be a part of it, and I just want

564
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: to see it or even try it. What's the best

565
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: way to do that?

566
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is is

567
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 3: if you can't get there this year, watch live. So

568
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 3: there's a great live webcast. And that's what we did

569
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: early on, is we committed to live webcasting so everyone

570
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 3: could see it around the world. Watch the live webcast.

571
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: The thing that's different about King of the Hammers now

572
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 3: is it truly is an off road festival, so there's

573
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 3: something for everyone. I think everybody's favorite race is the

574
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 3: Class eleven Volkswagens, you know, the stock bugs. You know,

575
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 3: everybody loves that and that didn't exist before. So watch

576
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 3: the live webcast, watch all the races, and you're going

577
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 3: to learn about the cars, the rules, the mods. You're

578
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 3: going to meet the teams, and then that can kind

579
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 3: of help you find maybe that category that you fit into.

580
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 3: There's UTV, there's extreme and Duro motorcycle racing. There's Class eleven,

581
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 3: there's fourteen hundred. There is what's called the Everyman Challenge,

582
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 3: you know, and that's for the person who has like

583
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: that modified four wheel drive vehicle but not the unlimited

584
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: cars for the which launched it. So find that place

585
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 3: and that type of racing that you like, and then

586
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 3: I would actually reach out to the teams. I think

587
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 3: that's really what's great about off road, you know, and

588
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 3: you guys know what it's like when you walk into

589
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 3: a pit in let's say, on track racing. Certain times

590
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 3: of track racing at a high level. They don't want

591
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 3: you to see anything. They don't want you to take pictures.

592
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: They want you to give away the secret sauce. Go

593
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: to King of the Hammers and you actually can walk

594
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: in people's pits. You can walk into Lauren Healey's pitt,

595
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 3: you know who races for Ford, and look at his

596
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 3: car and ask him what he's doing. You know, how

597
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 3: do you and they'll talk to you. That's what I

598
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 3: love about the off road space is people work to

599
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: bring each other up. You know, they say rising tides,

600
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: you know all ships.

601
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. I love that, and I think

602
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: you're right. It is a feeling of community and people

603
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: are friendly and proud and want to share what they've

604
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: built and what they're working on. It does not feel

605
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: exclusive at all.

606
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: That's the best part. The King of the Hammers is

607
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: going on now and I guess when's the main event.

608
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 3: The main event is next Saturday. So it started this

609
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 3: past weekend with King of the Motos. It's UTV's this

610
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: weekend and which is now the biggest race in the

611
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 3: highest number of vehicles along with the Everyman Challenge. Then

612
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 3: it goes into qualifying and then the Everyman Challenge, and

613
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 3: then the big final race called this the forty four

614
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 3: hundred race, the Race of Kings, and that will be

615
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 3: next Saturday.

616
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 1: And there are thousands of people out in the desert.

617
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: I mean ten how many last year came?

618
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 3: I believe the number, you know, they it tends to range.

619
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 3: I think the official number was put out at fifty thousand,

620
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 3: but when you actually look at the whole desert around it,

621
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 3: it's about probably seventy plus thousand people.

622
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: Small town it is.

623
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: It can be overwhelming, but it is intense.

624
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: You could say, yeah.

625
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 3: It's intense. They are about one hundred and forty or

626
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: so vendors. There's a big jumbo tron you know in Hammertown.

627
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 3: The other nice thing to go in and talk to

628
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 3: the vendors, go in to the pits, talk to the

629
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 3: race teams, you know, just go. I always, you know,

630
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 3: people say like, how do you start, and I always

631
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: just say, start somewhere. But if you want to be good,

632
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 3: learn from good. If you want to be great, learn

633
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 3: from great. And the greats are still there.

634
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 2: Oh that's what we're doing right now.

635
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 3: They will talk to you.

636
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. Real pleasure getting

637
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: to know you just a little bit, and I can't wait.

638
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 2: I'm going to watch Kingda Hammers this weekend and next week,

639
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: and I'll watch the Rebel Rally, which I think is

640
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: a two hundred and sixty days from two hundred and

641
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: fifty days from now. So really cool to learn about that.

642
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 2: Emily Miller, thanks so much for joining us.

643
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

644
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: All right, well, thanks very much for joining us. That's

645
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: going to do it for the show this week. Make

646
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 2: sure to join us, same time, same place next week,

647
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 2: and also remember that you can always send us in

648
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 2: suggestions or questions to our email address, which.

649
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: Is It's Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net, or you

650
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Speaker 1: can reach out to us on our instagrams.

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Speaker 2: Probably Yes, I'm Matt Miller nineteen seventy three, and you are.

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Speaker 1: Anna Elliott XO two of everything to Well's two teas,

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Speaker 1: two ages, but not two x or no, just the

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Speaker 1: one of those.

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Speaker 2: Don't overdo it, got it? Thanks very much for listening.

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Speaker 2: I'm Matt Miller and

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Speaker 1: I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg