Speaker 1: Hi, guys. I hope you all had a really great
Speaker 1: weekend and are starting your week off strong. Today, I
Speaker 1: want to talk about a topic I've been thinking about
Speaker 1: for a long time, and that's reducing the amount of
Speaker 1: alcohol I consume. Because we all know alcohol isn't the
Speaker 1: greatest for us. I'm bringing on an expert to talk
Speaker 1: about the effects of alcohol and about addiction. In no
Speaker 1: way am I addicted to alcohol, but I think it's
Speaker 1: an important topic for us to discuss because so many
Speaker 1: of us are affected by it. Even if you're not addicted,
Speaker 1: the chances of you knowing someone who abuses alcohol is
Speaker 1: pretty high. According to the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse
Speaker 1: and Alcoholism, almost thirty million Americans had an alcohol abuse
Speaker 1: disorder in twenty twenty three. Anyway, let's bring on my guest.
Speaker 1: His name is Joe Jurillo. He's a marriage and family
Speaker 1: therapist and he also has over twenty years of experience
Speaker 1: treating people with chemical use disorders. Hello, Joe, Welcome, Welcome
Speaker 1: to the podcast.
Speaker 2: Hi, nice to see you, Nice to meet you.
Speaker 1: Likewise, how are you today.
Speaker 2: I'm great, Thanks, good, good.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have you because I have been
Speaker 1: wanting to drink less. I have been drinking less, but
Speaker 1: I want to stop completely. And we'll get into that later.
Speaker 1: But why don't we start off with you telling us
Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself and your experience with helping
Speaker 1: people with addiction.
Speaker 2: Sure, I'll try and make this brief, even though it's
Speaker 2: a very long story. I grew up in a house
Speaker 2: where there was no alcohol at all, and as a kid,
Speaker 2: we never had alcohol at the table for dinner anything like.
Speaker 2: I grew up in a Catholic Italian family, and when
Speaker 2: I was fourteen, I had an older brother who passed
Speaker 2: away from cancer. It was a very traumatic experience for
Speaker 2: our whole family. I started falling in with friends that
Speaker 2: were drinking and smoking weed, and so my life took
Speaker 2: off on a trajectory where I normalized getting high to
Speaker 2: manage my emotions and stuff like that, getting drunk just
Speaker 2: about every day, drinking probably most days of my life
Speaker 2: until the age of forty two, when I stopped. From
Speaker 2: the time I was fourteen, oh wow, other little things
Speaker 2: that between there, but alcohol was always the constant. I
Speaker 2: found out when I was about twenty five that my
Speaker 2: grandfather had been a horrible alcoholic up until we grandchildren
Speaker 2: were born, but I had no consciousness of that beforehand.
Speaker 2: Suffice to say, I got jobs in career I was
Speaker 2: not interested in after college and sales and marketing and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. And around the age of thirty six,
Speaker 2: I decided to go back to school to become a
Speaker 2: therapist because when I had come home from college, included
Speaker 2: with my heavy drinking and stuff, I had pretty much
Speaker 2: what you would call a nervous breakdown and became very suicidal.
Speaker 2: Got into therapy with MFT, who helped me tremendously to
Speaker 2: be able to kind of back away from the ledge
Speaker 2: and find a way to value myself and my experience
Speaker 2: in life. I kept drinking, though, and then I went
Speaker 2: back to do my master's Marriage and Family therapy. Took
Speaker 2: like a one unit course in alcoholism that they were
Speaker 2: teaching as part of the curriculum, which I think is horrible,
Speaker 2: but that's pretty much the standard these days. You don't
Speaker 2: get a lot of training in it unless you work
Speaker 2: in the field with it, so that happened. I got
Speaker 2: married for the first time at the age of forty two,
Speaker 2: to a girl I had a mad crush on in
Speaker 2: high school, and we were very happy and we drank
Speaker 2: together a lot. I have to say that before that
Speaker 2: part even I got a career for God, like about
Speaker 2: seven years where my life was about selling wine and
Speaker 2: spirits to retail, which allowed me to become a professionalized
Speaker 2: drunk because I was able to drink every day and
Speaker 2: it worked really good for me, and I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the vast majority of it. Got married at
Speaker 2: forty two. Two years later. My wife and I, who
Speaker 2: drank together for fun all the time, my wife was
Speaker 2: getting sick and we couldn't figure out what it was,
Speaker 2: and it turned out that she was. What was happening
Speaker 2: was she was literally dying of alcohol poisoning because she
Speaker 2: was drinking so much, and she had developed a syndrome
Speaker 2: where she couldn't hold any food down, so she would vomit.
Speaker 2: You know, when she woke up in the morning, she
Speaker 2: would drink wine or commerr stomach down. Anything she ate
Speaker 2: during the day she'd throw back up. And after about
Speaker 2: a month of not being able to hold anything down
Speaker 2: except alcohol, she was really really messed up. Now, it's
Speaker 2: not unfamiliar for alcoholics to vomit in the morning when
Speaker 2: they've gone long enough without alcohol that they start to
Speaker 2: go into withdrawal symptoms. We got her into treatment over
Speaker 2: at Los Andinas in Pasadena. I As far as I'm concerned,
Speaker 2: they pretty much saved her life and our marriage. But
Speaker 2: she did the hard work by staying sober. But I
Speaker 2: quit with her at the same time and realized just
Speaker 2: a couple of days later how far down the path
Speaker 2: I had gone without even realizing it, because we just
Speaker 2: kept normalizing it over and over again, getting drunk, being
Speaker 2: hung over all that stuff. It's only wine, all the
Speaker 2: stuff that goes on in your head, because the nature
Speaker 2: of alcoholism is to kind of minimize and justify and
Speaker 2: rationalize all the consequences and behavior that you're going through.
Speaker 1: In my household, there wasn't necessarily alcohol at the table
Speaker 1: when we were having dinner, but it was very normal.
Speaker 1: Tequila has been a part of our life and our work,
Speaker 1: and I didn't really drink much like a few years ago,
Speaker 1: and as I started going on stage it became part.
Speaker 1: It's very much part of the culture, the type of
Speaker 1: music that I sing, and your job is to get
Speaker 1: everyone drunk, and I'm pretty good at that, so of
Speaker 1: course I'm drinking. But I never liked how I felt.
Speaker 1: I've never liked it. I'm like, I'm poisoning my body.
Speaker 1: My brain feels different, I'm sluggish, I have a lot
Speaker 1: of brain fog. But I would ignore it just for
Speaker 1: the sake of I'm drinking because it's a way to socialize,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm not going to be any fun
Speaker 1: or can I have fun without alcohol? And right now
Speaker 1: that you said wine, I just recently stopped drinking hard alcohol.
Speaker 1: And now I'm like, oh, but wine, it comes from grapes,
Speaker 1: and it's it's natural, it's natural, it's better. So I've
Speaker 1: been I was in New York a few days ago
Speaker 1: and I hadn't drink in a while, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna have a glass of wine. And I
Speaker 1: told myself just one. But I felt it right away,
Speaker 1: and I didn't feel as bad as I do with
Speaker 1: Thiki Lab. But still i can see it in my
Speaker 1: eyes and in my energy level, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I need to just cut this, just nip it in
Speaker 1: the bud. Which is why it's so perfect that you're
Speaker 1: on the podcast. But you've been sober now for how
Speaker 1: long I've.
Speaker 2: Been sober now for twenty two years?
Speaker 1: And have you still had a lot of fun after
Speaker 1: the alcohol.
Speaker 2: I have had so much fun. In fact, I've had
Speaker 2: more fun because I don't have to worry about the
Speaker 2: things I used to worry about. It's interesting because when
Speaker 2: I worked at Los Antinas, I worked with doctor Drew Pinsky.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're familiar with sober celebrity rehab
Speaker 2: and all that stuff that was going on in MTV
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago, reality television having to do with rehab
Speaker 2: and so forth. So we're living and all that, and
Speaker 2: Drew was a brilliant doctor understands addiction like nobody I've
Speaker 2: ever worked with before. But there was a team of
Speaker 2: us that worked there for that time. I was there
Speaker 2: in there for like seven years, and I learned so
Speaker 2: much about addiction on the daily basis because I worked
Speaker 2: in the rehab section, which was called the Briar Unit,
Speaker 2: where we had people come in. We would help them
Speaker 2: detox medically, you know, because Okay, there's only two types
Speaker 2: of chemicals that you really need to detox in a
Speaker 2: hospital for one is alcohol and the other is benzodiazepines
Speaker 2: like adavan, xanax, klonip and stuff like that. Because both
Speaker 2: of those you try and do it on your own
Speaker 2: you run a high risk of seizures, blood pressure spikes, strokes, death.
Speaker 2: I've seen people die detoxing at home. Okay, it's yeah,
Speaker 2: And most people don't know this. Mostly people think it's
Speaker 2: like heroin and meth or the bugaboos and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Those don't kill people by themselves, but you mix any
Speaker 2: of that with alcohol, it will. And if you don't
Speaker 2: detox in the hospital when you're an alcoholic, if you've
Speaker 2: been drinking daily, you really need to be under nurse's
Speaker 2: care and on a medical protocol to survive it, because
Speaker 2: it's serious stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And how do you know, Joe when you're addicted? Like,
Speaker 1: what are some signs? I mean, because I have a
Speaker 1: friend that I think, okay, she's definitely an alcoholic in
Speaker 1: my mind, but she's like, no, it's the only thing
Speaker 1: that takes my stress away. And she's like, even if
Speaker 1: I have two or three I'm like, well, you're drinking
Speaker 1: every day. But anyway, you tell me, what are the signs?
Speaker 2: Really good question. There's two ways to look at this.
Speaker 2: One is the signs of the things happening, and then
Speaker 2: the other is the signs of the things not happening.
Speaker 2: When you stop in terms of the signs of what's
Speaker 2: happening well, our definition over at loss and seen as
Speaker 2: for addiction period is the intense desire to use even
Speaker 2: in the face of negative consequences. You know you're going
Speaker 2: to lose your job if you show up to work drunk.
Speaker 2: You know that your husband's going to leave you, or
Speaker 2: your wife's going to leave you because they've had it
Speaker 2: with you already, and you've made ultimate promises. You know
Speaker 2: for weeks, months, and years that you're not going to
Speaker 2: drink anymore. You're starting to get sick, you're starting to
Speaker 2: feel ill, you're starting to not feel yourself, and yet
Speaker 2: you still continue to drink. Any number of different things
Speaker 2: that are consequences. You get your driver's license taken away,
Speaker 2: or you get two DUIs, three DUIs, and you still
Speaker 2: drink and drive, of course, because the idea of not
Speaker 2: driving yourself to your drink is ridiculous. But those are
Speaker 2: literally the types of things when you start to recognize
Speaker 2: that you choose to drink no matter what the danger is,
Speaker 2: or what the threat is, or what the thing is
Speaker 2: that could you could lose your career. Everybody could turn
Speaker 2: against you. We've seen it in the media a million times. Yeah,
Speaker 2: as long as somebody is partying and they're holding it together,
Speaker 2: everybody thinks they're so cool, And as soon as something
Speaker 2: bad happens to them, everybody thinks they're a total loser.
Speaker 1: That's so true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of impact itself is a negative consequence. Now,
Speaker 2: the other way to look at it, how do you
Speaker 2: know what you know? What is addiction? What is alcoholism?
Speaker 2: How do you know whether it's a problem or not?
Speaker 2: It's a problem when it's a problem. In other words,
Speaker 2: if you can't not drink, you're probably an alcoholic. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you can't not drink that you are an alcoholic.
Speaker 2: That means that you've got a condition. It's a physical condition,
Speaker 2: and it's a mental condition, and it's even a spiritual
Speaker 2: condition as well. A lot of people get nervous about
Speaker 2: talking about that, but I'm quite used to talking about it.
Speaker 2: And it's a physical problem because your body, your brain,
Speaker 2: all your organs become a customed to a chemical that's
Speaker 2: actually killing it over time, and then it can't function
Speaker 2: without it. That's why in later stage alcoholism, you can't
Speaker 2: get started for the day unless you've had a drink
Speaker 2: or two. You can't function calmly without a couple of
Speaker 2: belts in you, And it just goes on and on
Speaker 2: like that, and you're convinced this is the way you survive.
Speaker 2: The other way to look at it is what are
Speaker 2: the things that stop happening when you stop drinking? As
Speaker 2: proof that alcoholism is what's going on. I used to
Speaker 2: change jobs every two to three years all through my
Speaker 2: thirties and early forties, even my twenties as well, and
Speaker 2: it was amazing because I would always either have to
Speaker 2: quit a job because my boss was an ass, or
Speaker 2: I would get fired because, well, my boss was an ass.
Speaker 2: And I had probably the world's record of getting hired
Speaker 2: by asses beyond anybody else's comprehension. When I got so
Speaker 2: for some reason, I wasn't getting fired anymore from any jobs.
Speaker 2: And I found that I was staying places five years,
Speaker 2: ten years, twenty years, and leaving for a better opportunity,
Speaker 2: not running before everything came crashing down, and not because
Speaker 2: you know, I was waiting to get busted, you know,
Speaker 2: thoroughly expecting it, because that was my story. So when
Speaker 2: you kind of put those things together, you get a
Speaker 2: sense that obviously something's not working here, and I maybe
Speaker 2: I don't even understand entirely what it is, but I
Speaker 2: should probably pay attention to the writing on the wall. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And right now, as I was hearing you speak,
Speaker 1: it reminded me of someone that was in my life
Speaker 1: and how he said, no, I am not an addict.
Speaker 1: And everything that you just said was confirmation for me
Speaker 1: because he started making me feel bad like I was
Speaker 1: accusing him or keeping him from having fun. But it's
Speaker 1: like all these broken promises and it was ruining and
Speaker 1: it ruined our relationships. Kind of gave me a little
Speaker 1: bit of peace, So thank you for that. I did
Speaker 1: want to ask you, do you think that it's okay now?
Speaker 1: Knowing what alcohol more than ever, what it does to
Speaker 1: the body, what it does to the brain, and I
Speaker 1: want to get a little into the brain because that's
Speaker 1: like my main concern. But do you think that even
Speaker 1: having a glass of wine once a week is okay?
Speaker 1: Or do you feel like if you were telling your
Speaker 1: daughter or your sister, whoever, that someone that you truly love,
Speaker 1: would you tell them no alcohol at all or once
Speaker 1: in a while?
Speaker 2: Just wondering, good question. So there's nothing evil or wrong
Speaker 2: or dangerous about wine? If it's done in moderation. In
Speaker 2: other words, if you're not drinking every day, it shouldn't
Speaker 2: be a tremendous problem. If you binge when you drink,
Speaker 2: it's a problem if you find that you're working five
Speaker 2: days a week and weekends you let yourself have beer
Speaker 2: or wine or whatever it is that you're drinking, even
Speaker 2: hard liquor. As long as you're not getting really drunk
Speaker 2: each time you do and losing track of how much
Speaker 2: you're drinking, and as long as you're conscious of any
Speaker 2: kind of consequences that are occurring in terms of your
Speaker 2: decision to drink, then, like I said, it's not really
Speaker 2: a problem unless it's a problem.
Speaker 1: And now that you brought that up, I think it's
Speaker 1: a perfect way to talk about the effects that alcohol
Speaker 1: has on the brain or on the organs. Can we
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that? Right?
Speaker 2: So, let me give you a little show and tell.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do it here, but when you
Speaker 2: get home tonight, take a glass of water and take
Speaker 2: a bottle of rubbing alcohol, and pour a little bit
Speaker 2: of the rubbing alcohol into the water. And what you're
Speaker 2: going to find is the rubbing alcohol actually pushes the
Speaker 2: water aside. Right when you do anything to disrupt the
Speaker 2: balance of water inside the brain, and this goes for
Speaker 2: the other organs as well, because humans are mostly water.
Speaker 2: When you mess with the ability to your body's availability
Speaker 2: to handle the electrostatic charges in your brain, it's going
Speaker 2: to cause brain damage. It's going to cause cell destruction,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. Even small amounts of alcohol cause
Speaker 2: small amounts of brain damage. If you drink less than
Speaker 2: your body is reproducing in terms of brain cells, then
Speaker 2: it's not a problem. But if you're drinking every day,
Speaker 2: and you're drinking heavily, you're binge drinking, it can take
Speaker 2: a big chunk out of it. If you look at
Speaker 2: cat scans of an alcoholic sprain at the time of
Speaker 2: their autopsy versus someone about the same age there wasn't
Speaker 2: an alcoholic, you see tremendous differences in like the cavities
Speaker 2: that are supposed to be open and filled with fluids
Speaker 2: that the brain produces to regulate itself, and the mass
Speaker 2: material of the brain actually has shrunk over time. Quite
Speaker 2: often you have what they call water on the brain
Speaker 2: because the chambers are actually breaking down inside the brain
Speaker 2: over time. Because you've got a very sick brain that
Speaker 2: does and work. They call there's a condition called wet
Speaker 2: brain that when people who are in late or end
Speaker 2: stage alcoholism develop a kind of dementia. Alcoholic dementia. Wet
Speaker 2: brain is when you can't think straight, when you are hallucinating,
Speaker 2: when you are I mean, you might as well have
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's and stage Alzheimer's because it looks very much like that,
Speaker 2: which is a direct cause of the alcohol's effect on
Speaker 2: the brain. Men usually hit the wall around the age
Speaker 2: of fifty or just before that where they really need
Speaker 2: to have help if they're going to stop using. Women
Speaker 2: hit it closer to the age of forty. Now, that's
Speaker 2: completely anecdotal, okay, from my experience working in rehab and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. So if you quote me to somebody
Speaker 2: who's a statician, they're going to say, I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's necessarily accurate, but it was a constant that
Speaker 2: I saw the majority, the majority of women were hovering
Speaker 2: around forty and the majority of them were right hovering
Speaker 2: around fifty when they finally said, I can't get this anymore.
Speaker 1: Now that we're talking about the damage that it causes,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad you brought up because a lot of
Speaker 1: people are like, I'm done twenty, I'm young, and it's
Speaker 1: not going to affect me. But is it like long term,
Speaker 1: if you continue this behavior, it will, right? Is this
Speaker 1: damage irreversible?
Speaker 2: It's not just the brain either. I mean the damage
Speaker 2: that you do to any of your organs, most of
Speaker 2: it is pretty much reversible over time. But most people
Speaker 2: I know who quit drinking even in their forties recognize
Speaker 2: into their fifties and sixties that they started having problems cognitively,
Speaker 2: you know, back in their forties and really just kind
Speaker 2: of dismissed it as being the role of alcohol. But
Speaker 2: when you take alcohol out of there and you're still
Speaker 2: having problems with memory and stuff like that, then you
Speaker 2: recognize that this is like something that's left over from
Speaker 2: a long time ago that's not going to necessarily clean
Speaker 2: itself up completely. Now. On the other hand, the fact
Speaker 2: of the matter is that the other organs of the
Speaker 2: body outside of the brain are also getting damaged in
Speaker 2: the same time. Cardiovascular system, all the veins and arteries
Speaker 2: and stuff like that take a real beating when you're
Speaker 2: flooded with alcohol. All right, again, don't forget when you're
Speaker 2: drinking alcohol is replacing water and being chemical that your
Speaker 2: body is trying to produce. Your kidneys will start to
Speaker 2: fail after a time. Your liver is basically the oil
Speaker 2: filter of the body, right if you can imagine, the
Speaker 2: liver is the filter. Which is why I can never
Speaker 2: understand why people go to a restaurant and order liver
Speaker 2: for dinner because it's a filter. Why would you eat
Speaker 2: the filter?
Speaker 1: That's that's not yeah, no, thank you.
Speaker 2: I agree. But the liver has different stage. You've got
Speaker 2: three lobes that make up your liver, three lobes of
Speaker 2: the liver combined, and the fact of the matter is
Speaker 2: they're all affected in different ways. During the course of
Speaker 2: a person's drinking. The first thing that they know they find,
Speaker 2: and quite often they can diagnose alcoholism if they really
Speaker 2: need something physical like a lab to diagnose it, they'll
Speaker 2: recognize it by decline of the liver. The first thing
Speaker 2: they see is what they call elevated liver enzymes. That
Speaker 2: means that enzymes that are usually in a certain kind
Speaker 2: of balance in the liver that the liver produces are
Speaker 2: suddenly now way out of whack. All of a sudden,
Speaker 2: You've got more of these types of enzymes in those
Speaker 2: and it's not in balance anymore. The second phase is
Speaker 2: called fatty liver. Fatty liver means your body is no
Speaker 2: longer breaking fats down because the liver is not capable
Speaker 2: of helping with that, and the other organs of the
Speaker 2: body that help break down fats that are coming in
Speaker 2: and fats that are stored can't do their job anymore,
Speaker 2: and it starts to show up. The fat that's not
Speaker 2: getting processed jams the liver up, and then it can't
Speaker 2: clear them, so your liver does a worse job than ever.
Speaker 2: The third is called cirrhosis, and cirrhosis the liver is
Speaker 2: is to the liver what emphysema is to the lungs basically,
Speaker 2: which is where the baffles that are physical baffles that
Speaker 2: catch and collect garbage and get rid of it so
Speaker 2: that it doesn't destroy the filter itself start to break down.
Speaker 2: That's what happens when people die of enthysema. They have
Speaker 2: nothing left to breathe into anymore. They're just like these.
Speaker 2: They used to have tons and tons of these little
Speaker 2: teeny sacs that would transfer oxygen out of the blood
Speaker 2: and stuff, and now the sacks broke and they don't
Speaker 2: do their job anymore. The liver does the same thing
Speaker 2: in cirrhosis. Everything is reversible up to the point of cirrhosis,
Speaker 2: that is, if you stop early enough. Okay, So it's
Speaker 2: very serious stuff. And this is the thing when you're younger,
Speaker 2: all this stuff sounds so remote, like.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: That's not gonna happen. I mean, I'll stop before then
Speaker 2: there or I just went to the doctor. I got
Speaker 2: a clean bill of health. I'm doing good, you know.
Speaker 2: And people don't want to see what the long term
Speaker 2: effects are because they're really not available to them until later.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I now that I'm getting older, I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: I just I want to feel better. I want to
Speaker 1: take care of my body. I want, you know. And
Speaker 1: sometimes I even I hug myself. I'm like, I am
Speaker 1: so sorry that I did not take care of you better.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to do my best now. And we
Speaker 1: just talked about it on the podcast, about detoxing and
Speaker 1: detoxing the liver and how important it is to detox
Speaker 1: your organs and the body. I've done a lot of cleanses,
Speaker 1: you know. I'm like, Okay, no alcohol for ninety days,
Speaker 1: and right now my body's just not wanting it the
Speaker 1: way it used to again. Because I'm on this, I
Speaker 1: want to be the healthiest version of myself. I'm about
Speaker 1: to hit forty. I want to love myself, and part
Speaker 1: of that is saying no to alcohol and learning how
Speaker 1: to still enjoy a dinner or a party without it.
Speaker 1: I want to be on a natural high, and I
Speaker 1: think I'm doing pretty damn good at it. To be honest,
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, it's gonna take some time, but I
Speaker 1: like how I'm feeling so good.
Speaker 2: The other thing I wanted to mention is that there's
Speaker 2: a there's big money right now being poured into non
Speaker 2: alcoholic beverages, non alcoholic cocktails called mocktails. Believe it or not,
Speaker 2: They've had for years, they've had non alcoholic wine where
Speaker 2: they actually like they do a process that's similar to fermentation,
Speaker 2: but it's not fermentation, and so they create wine that
Speaker 2: doesn't have alcohol. That stuff usually doesn't taste very good,
Speaker 2: but the newer stuff they have a process where they
Speaker 2: actually make wine and then they remove the extract the
Speaker 2: wine by osmosis. They remove the alcohol from the wine
Speaker 2: and some of the stuff is amazing. I would not
Speaker 2: recommend it for someone who's trying to stop drinking in
Speaker 2: the very beginning. I think it's fine for people who
Speaker 2: maybe have a couple of years of sobriety but they
Speaker 2: miss the taste of the grape. They can actually get that.
Speaker 2: But there are other there's whole shops that are open
Speaker 2: up where they make alcohol alternatives, things like like fake vodka.
Speaker 2: The mixes with other mixers and gives you kind of
Speaker 2: like the bite of vodka or gins or bourbons and
Speaker 2: so forth that are not bad replicas of the same
Speaker 2: type of thing. All you have to do is just
Speaker 2: go online and look at a las full of them.
Speaker 2: Highland Park has got a number of them, and Echo Park,
Speaker 2: i believe, has a shop. Yeah perfect.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for that. And as you guys know,
Speaker 1: everyone that's listening, I'm respectful. I am the type of
Speaker 1: person to say live and let live. This is just
Speaker 1: an informative podcast. It's something that I'm very interested in,
Speaker 1: something that I've been trying to do myself. I've been
Speaker 1: very open here with you guys on the podcast, So
Speaker 1: just something for you to think about, to see how
Speaker 1: you're feeling. To see if this resonates with you guys,
Speaker 1: and Joe, You've been great. I enjoy my conversation with you.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it very much. You're very you make me
Speaker 1: feel at ease and just very calm, so I love
Speaker 1: your energy. So thank you so much, Joe.
Speaker 2: I am so glad to hear that you gey and
Speaker 2: thank you for having me on the show. This is
Speaker 2: as a private practice therapist. I have a home office
Speaker 2: in Tahanga and this working with addiction people trying to
Speaker 2: stay sober is a big part of my practice. So
Speaker 2: if you have you know, any people that you bump
Speaker 2: into out there that need help, that want to talk
Speaker 2: to somebody that might be able to help them, let
Speaker 2: them know about me and this podcast.
Speaker 1: And so forth. Absolutely, do you have a website where
Speaker 1: they can find you or any diermation you want to
Speaker 1: please share.
Speaker 2: It's it is. It is literally my name, Joe Jurillo
Speaker 2: LMFT dot com.
Speaker 1: Nice, okay, perfect, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: You're very welcome, and thank you for having me on
Speaker 2: the show. It's been my pleasure and my privilege. And
Speaker 2: if I can come back and help with anything else,
Speaker 2: please let me know.
Speaker 1: Definitely, I appreciate it. I think I want to send
Speaker 1: someone to you, so I'll be contacting you.
Speaker 2: Terrific.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you guys for listening and
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