1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This is the last thing 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: I want to see hovering over my bed if I 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: had to be in the hospital. This intensive care nurse, 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: the one accused of abusing newborn babies. Now cops a deal. 5 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, an intensive care nurse. 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: I see you in Virginia, accused of abusing infant babies. 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: Newborns pleads no contest to nine counts felony, child abused. 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: I don't think I would have let her plead no contest, 10 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: no low contender. In other words, I'm not saying I 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: did it, and I'm not saying I didn't do it. 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: Oh no, woman, you are gonna confess up under oath. 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: Uh uh hu Lno, You're gonna tell the truth. That 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: said they let her plead no lo Aaron Elizabeth and 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: Truckman twenty seven. Thank goodness they got her. She's got 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: a whole lifetime of abusing infants ahead of her. If 17 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: they hadn't arrested last year, after multiple newborns in the 18 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: neonatal intensive care unit nick You were left with unexplained 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: fractures to their tiny bodies. Can you imagine, Oh, fur 20 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: would fly if my little babies and nick You got 21 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: fractures to their legs. Oh, my stars, and the babies 22 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: couldn't even say anything. Ooh. The hospital closed its nick 23 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: You when police started their investigation, and then what came 24 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: was a long list of crimes alleged against Strautmann. This 25 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: is what we know crime stories, with Nancy Grace, a 26 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: so called angel of pain, stalking the halls of the 27 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: Nicku the newborn I see You unit, that's the suspicion. 28 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: After seven kneeborns, just tiny baby infants suffer unexplained broken 29 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: bones while in the hospital. Joining us tonight the father 30 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: of two of those babies, I'm Nancy Grace. This is 31 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: crime stories. Thank you for being. 32 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: With us nick You nightmare infants with broken bones? What 33 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: happened to these premi babies? Premature babies? 34 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: I know I had two of them, and they survived 35 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: only because of the nurses and doctors in the nick You. 36 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 1: They would have died if it had not been for 37 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: the North Side Hospital nick You unit after an emergency delivery. 38 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: Sadly that was not the case with many many other 39 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: parents that one particular hospital who would take a baby's bones, 40 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: an infant, a newborn, and break and fracture their bones 41 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: as they lie there helpless. First of all, take a 42 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: listen to this. 43 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 3: It is a burden and a huge responsibility and also 44 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 3: a privilege to be able to care for these children 45 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 3: at their most vulnerable states. And these families in their 46 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 3: most vulnerable states. Many many of them have gone through all. 47 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 4: Kinds of toil and trouble just trying to get. 48 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 3: Pregnant and then to deliver early or to have complications 49 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: during delivery. 50 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: It's just heart wrenching for. 51 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 3: These families to not be able to go through a 52 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 3: natural birth process and take your child home with you 53 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 3: believe them in the care of others who you really 54 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 3: don't know. 55 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 4: You have to trust them, you do. 56 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: You have to trust them, And sadly that trust was 57 00:03:54,920 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: misplaced in the case of at least seven newborns we know. 58 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: I think about it. A newborn baby premature, lying there, defenseless. 59 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: Mom and dad have gone home, no one there to 60 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: care for them except for the staff in the nick 61 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: U Did an angel of pain stalk the halls preying 62 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: on defenseless infants? Listen? 63 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 5: Henraiko County Police Detective Megan Lynch responds to Henriiko Doctor's 64 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 5: Hospital in reference to a five month old male in 65 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 5: the nickqu found to have a fractured left femur. When 66 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 5: the child is examined further, it is determined he also 67 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 5: has a fracture of the right tibia and multiple rib fractures. 68 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 5: The detective has told the injuries are similar to injuries 69 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 5: suffered by four males in the nickqu in the summer 70 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 5: of the previous year. 71 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: Oh my stars, there were other infants that had mysterious 72 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: broken and fractured bones before, and nobody did anything adjoining me. 73 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:05,559 Speaker 1: The father Dominic Hackey is with us. Mister Hackey, thank 74 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: you for. 75 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 6: Being with us, Thanks for having me. 76 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: When you first of all, tell me how did you 77 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: learn about the injuries, It. 78 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 6: Was seemingly normal Sunday. Me and my wife walked into 79 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 6: the nick You expecting from my wife to be able 80 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 6: to do skin to skin with our son for the 81 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 6: second time, and that's when we were told that a 82 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 6: nurse had observed discoloration in his left leg. He wasn't 83 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 6: moving it quite as much as the right one, so 84 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 6: they had gotten an X ray and determined that he 85 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 6: had a tibia fracture. 86 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: Mister Hackey, when you learned almost stars, I'm looking at 87 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: the video you gave us Control room. Can I see 88 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: that video again? This looks just like my John, David 89 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: and Lucy when they were in Nicki. They had all 90 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: these chords, all these going in some of them the 91 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: tubes go in the nose and come out the foot. 92 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:17,559 Speaker 1: They are completely helpless. Dominique, when you learned your baby boy, 93 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: your infant, your PREMI had a fracture of the leg 94 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: and that one of the legs wasn't moving, did you 95 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: think someone had done that to your baby or that 96 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: somehow this happened during childbirth. 97 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 6: I knew it didn't happen during childbirth. My wife had 98 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 6: an emergency he section, like yourself. I watched every minute 99 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 6: of that. I watched how he was pulled out, I 100 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 6: watched everything after that. He wasn't pulled out by his legs. 101 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 6: Nothing that in childbirth would have caused this. But it 102 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 6: did take a minute for us to process what was happening. 103 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 6: Our other son, Micah, was very, very sick. We had told, 104 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 6: we were being told that we were going to lose 105 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 6: him twice at that point, so we were just overwhelmed 106 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 6: with emotions. We had talked to the doctor on staff 107 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 6: that day, we weren't really given any answers on to 108 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 6: how this happened. And honestly, after we were told what 109 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 6: we were told and spoke to the doctors on staff, 110 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 6: I told my wife we need to we need to 111 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 6: leave because I needed to take time outside of that 112 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 6: hospital to process what was happening. And I had already 113 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 6: at that time reached out to my mom, who was then, 114 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 6: you know, texting me a million times back to back. 115 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 6: This isn't right. You need to call Child Protective Services. 116 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 6: This shouldn't be happening. I don't feel safe with my 117 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 6: grandson in there. So I needed to get out of 118 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 6: the hospital, call her, and kind of get my feet 119 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 6: to where we needed to go next. So so it 120 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 6: was a lot in that moment to process. 121 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: Mister Hackey, you stated they had already told you what 122 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: twice that. 123 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 6: Our son, Micah was going to pass away due to 124 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 6: the complications with my wife's pregnancy. He had low fluid 125 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 6: at sixteen weeks, which caused him to have a lot 126 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 6: of respiratory distress. So at that time, Micah was on 127 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 6: a ventilator, an oscillator hooked up to so many different machines. 128 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 6: But Noah was our strong baby. He was perfect from 129 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 6: the moment that he came out. He needed very little 130 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 6: respiratory help. So we had hope. He was our hope, 131 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 6: I should say, because he came out so strong and 132 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 6: nothing wrong with him, and you know, we just wanted 133 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 6: the same for our other son as well. So we 134 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 6: were very heartbroken to learn that our healthy baby now 135 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 6: is not healthy and nobody can tell us why. 136 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: And when you talk to the doctor, mister Hackey, the doctor, 137 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: did he he she avoid the fracture or did they 138 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: try to say, hey, maybe it was this, maybe it 139 00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: was that, we don't know what happened, or are they 140 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: just not talk about it. 141 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 6: They initially told us that it could have been done 142 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 6: from an injection that was given, maybe too too rough 143 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 6: or too hard. So they were going to implement some 144 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 6: trainings so that the nurses could be able to give 145 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 6: injections correctly. And that's kind of the only explanation that 146 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 6: was given. And I want to make it perfectly clear. 147 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 6: Bone density, vitamin deficiency brittle bone syndrome was never ever 148 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 6: brought up in our case. It was never questioned. It 149 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 6: was never. It was never a factor for us. So 150 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 6: that it's without without a doubt that somebody at this 151 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 6: hospital did it, because as soon as we were told 152 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 6: that there was a fracture, I declined to hold him 153 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 6: because I didn't want to be blamed for that. The 154 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 6: first time i'm holding my son, you're telling me that 155 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 6: he has a fracture. The day before we were at 156 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 6: the hospital, my wife was not allowed to hold him. 157 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 6: The day that we both come. Now that he has 158 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 6: a fracture and we're aware of it, now we're allowed 159 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 6: to hold him. It didn't seem. 160 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: Right to me, mister Hackey. They told me the same 161 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: thing about Lucy, my baby girl, when I was still 162 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: carrying her. When doctor told me I had to do 163 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: selective termination, you know how crazy I went. Other doctors 164 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: came running into the room. I was yelling so much. 165 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: I was not going to selectively abort Lucy. Then they 166 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: were born and they told me that Lucy may not 167 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: make it. It was horrible, horrible, And what you're saying, 168 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: John David. My son came out healthy. Everything was fine, 169 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: except very premature. Not Lucy. Mister Hackey joining me right 170 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: now is a pre eminent physician. It's doctor William Marony 171 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: Weight now medical examiner or pathologist, author of American Narcan 172 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: and so much more, who has dedicated his life to 173 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: helping other people. And I'd like to point out specifically 174 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: for you, mister Hackey, that he is a devoted father 175 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: like yourself, Doctor Moroney. You know, I'm just a trial lawyer. 176 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: Sometimes as a trial lawyer, and you're questioning a physician 177 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: like yourself, you really don't even know where to start. 178 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 1: But it's my understanding that injuries that occur during delivery 179 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: are typically at the joint. And when i'm again, I'm 180 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: just reading the tea leaves here, but when I look 181 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: at that X ray that doesn't look like the fracture 182 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 1: is at the joint, doesn't know. 183 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 7: And the idea of where injuries sometimes happen are statistically 184 00:11:54,920 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 7: based on our past experience as hospitals record injuries. The 185 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 7: only other dominant fracture collarbones fracture all the time because 186 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 7: a baby has to fit through the birth canal, and 187 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 7: the shoulders and the neck and the chest are the 188 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 7: widest part. Legs don't break in delivery. I've never twenty 189 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 7: five years, I've never heard of any kind of broken armor, 190 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 7: leg in delivery, collarbones or joint disclocations. The collarbones the 191 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 7: big one, because you're trying to squeeze this wide baby 192 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 7: through this tiny little birth canal. So that's the first 193 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 7: thing you would look at and have as where do 194 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 7: you start your investigation? How did a fracture happen in 195 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 7: that bone? In a collarbone? Somebody would say, oh, well, 196 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 7: you know what's fracked. Sure it'll grow back, we'll line 197 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 7: it up everything. I'm okay, and you understand that because 198 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 7: you're trying to squeeze the baby. But these other things 199 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,359 Speaker 7: right away, they're very highly suspicious and they need an investigation. 200 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last days, a 201 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: former nurse's plea deal has gone down. Catch this. The 202 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: plea deal allows Strutman to be sentenced to no more 203 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: than three years in prison. Oh my goodness, she's going 204 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: to be out by twenty nine. She'll probably change her name, 205 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: get fake credentials, go to another jurisdiction, become a nurse 206 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: and start abusing children again. And this was breaking their bones. 207 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: The plea deal, what a deal? Oh? I feel like 208 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: I'm eating a dirt sand much drops charges of malicious wounding, 209 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: which would require evidence of intent. Okay, wait, she gets 210 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: the baby, waits for a moment to be alone, and 211 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: then breaks its bones. That shows intent. What were these 212 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: prosecutors thinking, Dear Lord in Heaven. Now it's part of 213 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: this deal. She will never be able to practice nursing. Okay, no, 214 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: she should be in jail or any healthcare related work. Again. 215 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: But wait a minute, she can just go to another 216 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: jurisdiction on the other side of the country. Change your name. 217 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: She'll be right back at it. This is what we 218 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: know happened, mister Hackey. I had an emergency cesaian, just 219 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: like your wife did, and I was awake the whole time. 220 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: I could see the baby's being lifted up, and it's 221 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: just like you just said. They weren't pulled out by 222 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: their legs or by you know, in a normal birth, 223 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: head normally comes out first. They were lifted up, and 224 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: I saw John David come out first. I saw Lucy 225 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: come out second, and I was told they're breathing, and 226 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: they were looking at me and blinking their eyes. I 227 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: remembered distinctly, And when you tell me they were not 228 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: pulled out by their legs, I believe you, that's something 229 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: you never forget. When your wife learned that her baby 230 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: her newborn, how much did they weigh? Four pounds? 231 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 6: Noah was three pounds eight ounces, and like it was 232 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 6: two pounds eight ounces. 233 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: John David was five pounds. Lucy was two pounds like 234 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: a kitten. For Pete's sake, When your wife found out 235 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: this four pound baby had a fractured leg, how did 236 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: your wife take it? 237 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 6: She I don't think she could process it at that moment. Honestly, 238 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 6: she was dealing with Like I said, it was an 239 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 6: end to a long, very long pregnancy, which actually wasn't 240 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 6: very long, but it felt long. We were going to 241 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 6: ultrasounds once a week, sometimes twice a week, so she 242 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 6: was very much out of it, which is why she's 243 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 6: kind of letting me speak because I remember it so clearly. 244 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 6: She was dealing with postpartum at that time as well, 245 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 6: So all that she really could do was cry. And 246 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 6: all that I could do was tell my wife that 247 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 6: you know, our boys are going to be okay. That's 248 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 6: all we could do. 249 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: I don't know how you guys managed to leave them there. 250 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you couldn't take them home. They needed to 251 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: be hooked up to all those machines, so you couldn't say, 252 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: to hell with you, I'm taking the children home. You 253 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: had to leave them there. Oh how did you do it? 254 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: How did you leave your child there knowing? I mean, 255 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: think about it, I'm sure you have. Somebody had to 256 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: take your little and cracket. 257 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 6: I guess it was the hospital gas led us into 258 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 6: thinking that this was isolated incident, that they were really 259 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 6: working to figure out who did this. And at that 260 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 6: point we kind of had to trust the hospital because 261 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,719 Speaker 6: me and my wife, we were very blessed with the 262 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 6: type of jobs that we have. We were able to 263 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 6: be at the hospital all day every day. We just 264 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 6: couldn't be there at night because we have animals at 265 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 6: home and stuff at home that we have to attend to. 266 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 6: But I mean we just had to trust them and 267 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 6: with us at that time only thinking that you know, 268 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 6: this was just our son. It could have been an 269 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 6: injection that was given wrong. They're going to train people 270 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 6: so that they get this right. It was like at 271 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 6: that time, it felt like the hospital was doing what 272 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 6: they were supposed to do, even though they were telling 273 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 6: us that we may never find and the person who 274 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 6: did this, because unless somebody confesses, it's going to be 275 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 6: hard to say that this person actually did it. 276 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 3: Some of these premature babies are so sick, their little 277 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 3: organs are not developed enough to be functioning outside the 278 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 3: womb yet, and we are basically assisting them by artificial means. 279 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: So we do see. 280 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 4: Death and I see you. 281 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 3: We see a lot of children who have issues with 282 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 3: their lungs, with their heart, with their vision. So any 283 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 3: instance where something happens that is unexpected. 284 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 4: We're going to watch and try and see what happened. 285 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: But all of that problems with the lungs, or the heart, 286 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: or with the vision, those occur or originate prior to birth. 287 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: This kneeborn infant child, this little baby boy, was born 288 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: without a fracture in his leg. So how did that happen? 289 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: To doctor William Moroney, I know that infants bones are malleable, 290 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: but to fracture or break a baby's bone, it had 291 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: to hurt. It had to be horrific pain for the 292 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: child to endure. And even though the bones are somewhat 293 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: malleable at the time of birth, there's still bones. How 294 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: much force would you have to affect in order to 295 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: break or fracture a child's leg, probably. 296 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 7: Just a little bit less than like trying to break 297 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 7: a broomstick, or more than break some pasta. 298 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, break a broomstick with your bare hands. 299 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: I can break a broomstick with my bare hands, even 300 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: though I cracked it over my knee. 301 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 8: No, yes, what do you say? 302 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 7: But the other what I want to make clear is 303 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 7: the rare condition that a baby is born with b 304 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 7: good bones only happens when the mother is in a 305 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 7: car accident. If these mothers do not have any history 306 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 7: of being in recent like right before the hospital car accidents, 307 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 7: all these bones are perfect. All these babies are born 308 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 7: with completely healthy bodies. But we have seen broken bones 309 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 7: in babies after they've been delivered in emergency deliveries, when 310 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 7: the mothers had car accidents. 311 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: Mister Hackey, had your wife, I already know the answer 312 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: to this. Your wife had not been in any type 313 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: of an accident, Hatchie. Okay, doctor Maroney, I hate to 314 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: call a medical doctor of your eminence on the carpet, 315 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: but that's really not what I asked you. I didn't 316 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: ask you about carrecs because there's no car wreck or 317 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: no accident, nothing like that. No violent injury on the 318 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: mom prior to birth. I'm asking you the degree a 319 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: force you're telling me a little less or the same 320 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: amount as trying to crack a broom over your knee. 321 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 7: The physical amount of force would equal something hitting a 322 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 7: wall at twenty miles an hour, and the other thing 323 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 7: that was really real. 324 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 1: Baby. How can you be so calm? Marony? How many 325 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: children do you have? For Pete's sake, don't you remember 326 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 1: when they were born someone using that amount of force 327 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: like cracking a broomstick to break fracture this baby's leg. 328 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 7: And I don't want to make pictures in people's minds 329 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 7: that would make them even more disgusted. But broken ribs 330 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 7: are very difficult. You either crush a baby's chest or 331 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 7: you swing the baby like a baseball bat and hit 332 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 7: a wall. Those are how you break ribs. I've done 333 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 7: the positions for child abuse in local counties. That's a 334 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 7: tremendous amount of force. So broken bones in the chest, 335 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 7: broken legs, this is serious dominic hackey. 336 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: I know you're hearing Dr Maroney speaking when you hear 337 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: him describe how much force it would require to break 338 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: your kneeborn's leg to fracture it. I mean, I feel 339 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: sick just hearing it. When you think about your infant 340 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: and the force required, like swinging the infant against a 341 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: wall or breaking their leg like a broom handle, it. 342 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 6: Hurts, its heartbreaking. 343 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 7: It. 344 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 6: Honestly, it feels like my son was in this world 345 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 6: for a week and I failed to protect him, and 346 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 6: it keeps me up at night. But I won't feel 347 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 6: my son again. I won't fail these other babies again. 348 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 6: What they've been through and all that they had to 349 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 6: endure is sick that we were in the room with 350 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 6: the devil and we had no idea. 351 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: Guys, it all starts here. 352 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 9: Listen, an infant in a nick youwit Inraightko doctor's hospital 353 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 9: suffers a horrible leg injury that isn't easily explained. Babies 354 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 9: breakbones during birth, It's not uncommon, but this is different. 355 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 9: As the hospital begins to investigate, three other babies have 356 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 9: unexplained fractures. 357 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand something. Joining me Dave Matt crime 358 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: online dot com investigative reporter who has intensely researched this 359 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: case and conducted his own interviews. Dave mac Wait a minute, 360 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: so when this little baby mister Hackney's baby has a 361 00:23:52,480 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: fractured leg. Before that, they were already three other babies 362 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: that had quote unexplained fractures. 363 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 8: Yes, Nancy, there were four babies in this in the 364 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 8: time around mister Hackney's child that all had unexplained fractures. 365 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 8: One of the babies was actually hurt four days after 366 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 8: mister Hackney's baby. 367 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: Okay, I am actually without words, Dave mac I didn't 368 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: understand the events chronologically, mister Hackney, did anybody tell you, Oh, 369 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: by the way, we've already had multiple babies that have 370 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: unexplained fractures. When they were telling you your baby somehow 371 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: has a broken leg, did they think to say and oh, yeah, 372 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: there were three babies before and then right after that 373 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: there's another baby. Did anybody tell you that? I guess not. 374 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 6: Nobody had told us until after we were out of 375 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 6: the hospital. Henryko Police department told us that there were 376 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 6: other victims that suffered similar factors around the same time 377 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 6: as my son, and that's when we first learned about it. 378 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: The police department had to tell you that. Let me 379 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: ask you a question. Okay, I'm a criminal lawyer, but 380 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 1: I know this much about civil law. I hope you 381 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: and your wife have a good lawyer. So at no 382 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: point when the doctor is explaining to you, your baby 383 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: has a fractured leg and it took the forces. Maroney 384 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: just said of cracking a broomstick to do it. They 385 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: didn't say, and we've had that problem before. They hid 386 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: that from you until police told you that you had 387 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: no idea. There is no way hell would freeze over 388 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: before I would have my children in a nick YOU 389 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: unit where other babies had had fractured bones. Oh no, 390 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: but you didn't know that, did you? 391 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 6: No idea? Nobody. None of the other families knew as well. 392 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 6: We all thought that we were isolated incidents, and honestly, 393 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 6: that's why a lot of us kept quiet for so long. 394 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 6: We didn't know that there were other people out there 395 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 6: who went through similar experiences with the hospital. 396 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 10: Dominique and Tori Hacke start speaking out after Virginia Child 397 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 10: Services informed them that their newborn baby, Noah, had been 398 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 10: abused by an employee at the NICKU when he suffered 399 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 10: a fractured leg following his premature birth. Noah was one 400 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 10: of the four babies who suffered unexplained injuries. 401 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: This would not be the first time, and of course 402 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, Dominie Hackey was looked at long and hard 403 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: because parents of an injured or missing child are always 404 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: the first suspect. Statistically, he could be the angel Gabriel 405 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: that came down from heaven and sat down in front 406 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: of the police. He would still be the number one 407 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: suspect statistically. Again, it's not the first time that a 408 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: hospital employee has inflicted pain, suffering, even death on an 409 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: innocent knee born. Does the name Lucy let Be ring 410 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: a bell because that's the name that echoes in my 411 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: mind all the time. Listen. 412 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 11: Registered nurse Lucy Leppe gets her dream job in the 413 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 11: neonatology unit at Countests of Chester Hospital. Working many extra 414 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 11: shifts in the small unit, let Be says she enjoys 415 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 11: watching the infants progress and supporting their families, but patients 416 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 11: under her care experience an unusual amount of medical emergencies 417 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 11: and even death. After years of other doctors and nurses 418 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 11: expressing their concerns, the hospital finally launches an investigation, finding 419 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 11: that seven babies were injured and seven babies died under 420 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 11: Leppi's care. Handwritten notes indicate the nurse injected air into 421 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 11: the infants bloodstream, or gave them lethal doses of insulin 422 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 11: minutes before consoling their grieving parents. 423 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: Oh my stars. Okay, doctor Moroney, I got to ask 424 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: you what that means injecting air or insulin. But two, 425 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: doctor John DELATORI, we all need a shrink right now. 426 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: Licensed psychologist who specializes in forensic psychology, Doctor Delatory, did 427 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: you hear that last bit about Lucy let be made 428 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: she wrought in hell she would console the parents who 429 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: are grieving after their kneeborn infant, just like mister Hackney's 430 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: babies die. So she kills them and then she comforts 431 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: the parents. That is freaky. 432 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 12: Yeah, it's absolutely freaky and it's extremely dangerous. And I 433 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 12: think there are two complicating aspects to this. 434 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: The first part is. 435 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 12: She wants the attention that she gets for being this 436 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 12: grand nurse who's there to console, but in reality, she 437 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 12: hates these children. In reality, she wants nothing more than 438 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 12: to be than to get rid of them. That's the 439 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 12: level of anger and animosity that need to be there 440 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 12: in order to inflict pain on a vulnerable child. This 441 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 12: level of hate and anger and annoyance is complicating this 442 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 12: idea that she also wants the attention of being the 443 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 12: person that is there to quote unquote care for them. 444 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 12: And it's the attention that she really wants, but in reality, 445 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 12: she hates that she has to deal with these children 446 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 12: in order to get it. 447 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: We investigated the Lucia let the case. Listen to investigative 448 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: reporter Alexis Terreschak. 449 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 4: First time it was a tragedy, but immediately the way 450 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 4: that she reacted was a red flag. She wanted to 451 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 4: come back to work immediately, while everybody else was devastated 452 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 4: and crushed by this. Each time a child died, each 453 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 4: time a baby died and she was there, she wanted 454 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 4: to come back to work and insisted on She remember 455 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 4: that many of them were twins or triplets, she wanted 456 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 4: to work with the other sibling immediately, and that really 457 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 4: raised the red lights of the doctors and the nurses 458 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 4: really complained about her and that this is really very 459 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 4: very suspicious. 460 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: You think it's weird that she would console the parents 461 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: after killing their kneeborn, that's not all. Listen. 462 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 9: After the death of a fifth baby on her unit, 463 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 9: Lucy let me wants to go to the funeral, but 464 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 9: is working at the time and unable to attend, so 465 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 9: she sent a condolence card to the family titled your 466 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 9: loved one will be remembered with many smiles. Inside, let 467 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 9: Be wrote, there are no words to make this time 468 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 9: any easier. She will always be a part of your 469 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 9: lives and we will never forget her. Thinking of you 470 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 9: today and always lots of love, Lucy. Let me then 471 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 9: took a picture of the card and kept it as 472 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 9: a keepsake. 473 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: Okay, Dominic Hackey is joining us. His twins were in 474 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: the nick queue when he and his wife learn after 475 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: a very difficult pregnancy and delivery an emergency c section 476 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: that astonishingly, one of their babies has a fractured leg. 477 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: Out of nowhere, you're hearing about, Lucy, let be, who 478 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: would murder the infants and then console the parents and 479 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: help them plan the funeral. Did any of the nurses 480 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: seem odd or act in an unusual way to you 481 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: or to your wife? 482 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 6: None of the nurses really talk to me. There were 483 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 6: very few of them. A lot of them talked to 484 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 6: my wife and directed a lot of care questions to 485 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 6: my wife. It was almost as if I was incapable 486 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 6: of making decisions for my kids and that she was 487 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 6: the only capable one, So I didn't form a lot 488 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 6: of relationships with a lot of the nurses. 489 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: Well, they probably suspected you, frankly, mister Hackey. They probably 490 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: thought you were responsible because all the nurses think they 491 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: know each other and they would never do anything to her. 492 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: The baby and the dad or the mom is typically 493 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: the purp. So now what do they gave you the 494 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: cold shoulder? They probably gave you the stinky. 495 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm sure once they learned because I was very 496 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 6: open with my mom reporting the incident to Child Protective 497 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 6: Services and things like that, that they were very cautious 498 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 6: abound that. 499 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace and Nick You neo natal 500 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: intensive care unit nurse accused of breaking the bones of 501 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: newborn babies gets a sweet heart deal. I don't get it. 502 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: It's on video video footage shown to the court Trupman 503 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: appearing to place her full body weight on one infant 504 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: who was screaming out in pain. Cool Strupman said of 505 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: the video, it can be quote perceived as a little 506 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: too rough. You broke their bones, a little too rough, 507 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: my rear end. This woman needs to go straight to 508 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: hell and share her stories with bills above and Satan instead. 509 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: She's going to be out. I guarantee you in less 510 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: than two years. This is what we know about what 511 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: happened to these little newborn babies. 512 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 2: Nick You Nightmare a nurse under arrest for allegedly breaking 513 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 2: the bones of premature infants in a Virginia hospital. 514 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: That's right after they let the foreign nurses come back 515 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: because their own investigation went nowhere. That's on them. There 516 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: were more fractures. Wow, what a coincidence. Then we learned 517 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: this from surveillance video placed in the hospital room. Listen. 518 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 9: The hospital installs surveillance cameras throughout the nick U after 519 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 9: the unexplained injuries of the previous year. In Raiko County, 520 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 9: Police detective Megan Lynch reviews the surveillance video and reports 521 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 9: what she sees. Aaron Strahman seen in the room with 522 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 9: baby identified in paperwork as YH on November tenth. Straman 523 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 9: grabs YH by the legs and applies pressure to the legs. 524 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 9: Strawman is seen on video placing her weight down on 525 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 9: the legs of YH. Strawman is then seen taking both 526 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 9: of the baby's legs and pushing them backwards. To where 527 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 9: Yh's feet are at his head. Yh appears to be 528 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 9: crying and in distress. 529 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: Oh my stars, the baby's feet are back at his head. 530 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: Mister Hackey, have you seen this video? 531 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 6: No, I haven't seen any videos. 532 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: I guarantee you when you get the right lawyer, you will. So, 533 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: mister Hackey, when were you told that the perpetrator was 534 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: caught on video? 535 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 6: I want to say maybe a couple of weeks ago, 536 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 6: towards the beginning of the year. We By the time 537 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 6: we left the hospital, there were no cameras. We were 538 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 6: in there for eighty seven days, so if they ever 539 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 6: put in cameras, we didn't know until these new stories 540 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 6: came out. And when I learned of the three babies, 541 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 6: that's when I learned of that there was camera footage. 542 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 6: Didn't specifically say that they caught her on camera footage, 543 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 6: but at that time, but learned that there was camera footage, 544 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 6: and that the police department, the Commonwealth Attorney, everybody was 545 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 6: going to be working to review this footage around the clock. 546 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 6: And then, of course, once she was arrested, is when 547 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 6: we learned that, you know, they had caught her on footage. 548 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 6: They nobody told us doing what with whose baby? Just 549 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 6: that she was being brought up on charges in connection 550 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 6: with this, and you know, we'll just keep finding out 551 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 6: along the way. 552 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: So the hospital never told you we've got her on video. 553 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: You had to learn that from the District Attorney's office, 554 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: Doctor William Moroney. You heard what we have learned was 555 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: on the video. What exactly does that mean? What does 556 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: she do to the baby? According to the video. 557 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 7: What it looks like is there's pressure to snap a 558 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 7: leg by pushing it outside of what we call barriers. 559 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 7: There's natural barriers that the muscles can use. 560 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: Then there may stop. Stop stop doctor, you're talking to 561 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: lay people. We don't know what are you saying, pressure barriers? 562 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 1: Please speak English. 563 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,760 Speaker 7: Here's we'll go back to when you when you put 564 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 7: weight on that leg to snap that bone, it's equal 565 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 7: to a vehicle hitting a wall at twenty miles an hour. 566 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 7: But it happens in somebody's hands. 567 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: But how does she know it for what do you 568 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: mean put weight? How does that happen? 569 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 7: Well, they said, in the words that were used, she 570 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 7: pushed down that her body weight, her shoulders, her muscles, 571 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 7: pushed on a b a bone on legs, on one instance, 572 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 7: and then exceeding the normal range of hips and backs 573 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 7: and legs, she twisted the legs so far back that 574 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 7: a baby that's a flat piece of pasta, it's a noodle, 575 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 7: suddenly becomes an elbow. That's unnatural the body. Even adults, children, 576 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 7: they don't bend like that. When you bend something like that, 577 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 7: something breaks. They're very lucky. We don't know the results, 578 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 7: but that could have snapped somebody's spine and made somebody 579 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 7: permanently paralyzed for life. That's the amount of pressure twenty 580 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,800 Speaker 7: miles an hour, a car hitting a fence, twenty miles 581 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 7: an hour, a car hitting a brick wall. That's the 582 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 7: amount of force and weight from what was done to 583 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 7: those babies. Bone two. 584 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: Mary Hutchinson joining us twenty eight years in LLE law enforcement, 585 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:29,439 Speaker 1: now owner chief investigator for Barry and Associates Investigative Services. Mary, 586 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,280 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What the he double 587 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: L is wrong with this hospital? Their investigation yielded nothing. 588 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: And then as soon as the four nurses that have 589 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: put on paid leave, I might add this woman charged 590 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: with breaking the bones a little nikki infants that weigh 591 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: four pounds. She is on paid leave. Are you kidding me? 592 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: But their investigation yielded No. Are you surprised that the 593 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: hospital found out nothing while investigating itself. 594 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 13: No, that's pretty much common practice. They're going to do 595 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 13: everything they can to shield their own liability. And I mean, 596 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 13: that's a travesty in itself. That's another story to be told. 597 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 13: But there's no way that you could ever ever convince 598 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 13: me that there wasn't already surveillance in place in that 599 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 13: Nike You in some shape form or fashion not to 600 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 13: mention that there are other cameras all throughout that hospital, 601 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 13: like a adjacent hallways, et cetera, et cetera, that they 602 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 13: could track each one of these individual nurses and find 603 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 13: out exactly a timeline of who was around the child 604 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,240 Speaker 13: and when they were around the child. 605 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: You know what, You're absolutely right. They had all that 606 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: in the records. Who was working the day before the injury, manifested, 607 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: who was working in the day of the injury. That 608 00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: shouldn't be so difficult to uncover, Yet they didn't. To 609 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: Greg Morris joining me, high profile lawyer and partner at 610 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: the law firm of King and Morse, author of The 611 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: Untested on Amazon. Greg Morse I'm sorry to report I'm 612 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: not surprised at all. You heard Dominic Hackey, the dad saying, 613 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: the doctor never even explained to us really exactly what 614 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: had happened, didn't mention that employee may have done this. 615 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: Nobody told me that other infants before my baby Noah 616 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 1: was attacked, had been attacked. I'm not surprised at all. 617 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: The hospital didn't tell him any of that and didn't 618 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: tell him, Hey, we have surveillance video. I want you 619 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: to know we know who did it. Never breathe a word, Greg. 620 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 14: Well, that's the bigger or an issue here. Also is 621 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 14: the hospital's cover up. And what's particularly troubling to me 622 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,919 Speaker 14: is that they questioned these parents. As you pointed out, 623 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 14: they're the first suspects. There is no world where the 624 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,720 Speaker 14: hospital doesn't know this is going on with all these babies, 625 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 14: and they're, like your previous experts said, they're trying to 626 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 14: shield their liability. And that's really that's really, you know, 627 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 14: a comment on our healthcare. We value profits over care, 628 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 14: and this is what you get. You talked about your 629 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,280 Speaker 14: own children, Nancy. Imagine a doctor says to you, well, 630 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,800 Speaker 14: when we give needles, sometimes bones break. There's no world 631 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,280 Speaker 14: where anybody believes that there's no world where that's not investigated. 632 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 14: But if the people investigating are sweeping it under the rug, 633 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 14: then what do you do? And it's heartbreaking for these 634 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 14: families what they've had to endure and then to be 635 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 14: a suspect essentially by the hospital administrator so they can 636 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 14: hide their own malfeasance and their own negligence in turning 637 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 14: a blind eye to these things. 638 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 15: Seven potential abuse cases are now under scrutiny, and investigators 639 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 15: say there could be more. Police investigators are scouring hundreds 640 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,720 Speaker 15: of hours of surveillance footage to determine what happened. Reports 641 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 15: say at least three of the affected families were in 642 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 15: court for Strapman's appearance. Only one family has spoken publicly 643 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 15: so far, and that father says another couple told him 644 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 15: their child suffered twelve fractures. Straupman has been formally charged 645 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 15: in just one baby's case, as the investigation continues. Straupman's 646 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 15: public defender says she is not entered a plea as 647 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,839 Speaker 15: yet and is being held without bail. Her next court 648 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 15: appearance is scheduled for March twenty fourth. 649 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:36,359 Speaker 1: Mister Hackey, is that true? Another baby had twelve fractures. 650 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,439 Speaker 1: I hate to say it, but yes, have you talked 651 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:40,720 Speaker 1: to any of the other parents. 652 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,360 Speaker 6: Yes, I'm currently in contact with five of the other families, 653 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 6: so six families, including myself. It's worked wonders for myself 654 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 6: and the other families just to have other people who 655 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 6: have gone through the situation, who have been gas lit 656 00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 6: by the hospital, whose birthing stories are similar to our story, 657 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 6: and we just all feel like we were failed from 658 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 6: the moment we stepped foot from that hospital to the 659 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 6: moment that we left, because we had no idea that 660 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 6: anybody had even been let go in relation to our 661 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 6: son's cases until the news put it out there this year. 662 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,919 Speaker 1: Mister Hackey, I want to thank you for speaking out. 663 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 1: There are parents all over the country whose children suffer 664 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: injuries or worse in the hospital and they are fed 665 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: the line it's normal. We don't know how this happened. 666 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 1: It's not normal, mister Hackey. Have you ever lain awake 667 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: at night and thought about how lucky you are she 668 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: didn't kill your baby? 669 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 6: Every night? Ever since all of the details of this story, 670 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 6: we're learned, because like I said, I'm just learning of 671 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,880 Speaker 6: the severity of the other cases. So I'm very blessed 672 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 6: that I'm able to come home and hold my two 673 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 6: my two little babies, kiss them, hold my wife hug her, 674 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,240 Speaker 6: and we can sit down as a family and attack 675 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 6: this monster head on, all of us together, and everybody 676 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 6: is healthy and happy, and I'm just truly blessed that 677 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 6: my outcome and my situation did not end in death. 678 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: Clark is ticking on when Strattman will be released. Bolo 679 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:41,720 Speaker 1: be on the lookout. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend.