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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Mark Ollie, you are sharing with us details about this

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Speaker 2: farmer who finds debris scattered over a large area. Have

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Speaker 2: you made a guess about how big this object must

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Speaker 2: have been to leave that much debris over such a region.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we could estimate it from the forest that was removed.

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Speaker 3: It was the Forestry Commission that removed it. They claimed

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Speaker 3: it was wind damage, like you say, clar clearly was

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Speaker 3: it was definitely part of this attempt to cover things up. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the forest actually gives away the size of this thing

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Speaker 3: because the cut through the trees was around about twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five feet wide, So I don't know what that

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Speaker 3: is in meters. It's a divided by three. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: quite quite a significant size thing that had come down

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Speaker 3: and hit the tops of the trees, shearing a lot

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Speaker 3: of them off and snapping a lot of them and

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Speaker 3: scattering you know, would work out with the debris, which

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Speaker 3: you know, they didn't bother to clean up. They just

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Speaker 3: left that. So yeah, it was quite a sizeable thing,

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Speaker 3: quite large.

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Speaker 2: So the investigators, I mean, one of the first things

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Speaker 2: they do, I would think is look you do see

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Speaker 2: if there's any evidence that a plane is crashed, right,

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Speaker 2: that's the first thing that comes to mind.

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Speaker 3: Well, that was the natural assumption. That was the assumption

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Speaker 3: that the farmer made when he came out, he sort

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Speaker 3: of had a look, and that's why you phoned the

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Speaker 3: police and ended up with the Air Force there the

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Speaker 3: mod looking for a plane, but there wasn't one. You know,

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Speaker 3: your instinct is to go look for this thing stuck

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Speaker 3: in the ground. That's how I sort of got involved

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Speaker 3: because when Gary sort of contacted me and we discussed

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Speaker 3: it after a UFO conference because we were both speakers there,

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Speaker 3: he said, well, do you want to come and see

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Speaker 3: if you can dig anything up? So I'm like, well, okay.

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Speaker 3: You know, something like a spitfire hits the ground at

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Speaker 3: six hundred miles an hour, it embeds into the ground

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Speaker 3: and you can go find bits of it. But this

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Speaker 3: was totally not like that. It's a limestone area, so

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Speaker 3: there's only you know, a couple of feet of soil

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Speaker 3: on top of the ground. So nothing had thended And

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Speaker 3: considering the amounts of debris, the sheer quantity of it,

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Speaker 3: how anything could lose that amount of It's how to fuselage.

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Speaker 3: It's how to shell and still be able to fly

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Speaker 3: off is pretty amazing. I mean, we are talking late seventies,

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Speaker 3: early nineteen eighties here for this type of technology, So

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Speaker 3: nobody seemed to know anything at the time about anything

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Speaker 3: that was capable of doing that.

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Speaker 2: All right, so this forestry folks come out to chop

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Speaker 2: down the forest and take it down. There's still samples

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Speaker 2: that were found even after that happens.

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Speaker 3: Well no, not really, once that had gone. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it was funny because Gary did actually go back out

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Speaker 3: to the site and he said there was still a

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Speaker 3: huge yellow bulldozer parked in the middle of what had

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Speaker 3: been in the forest. So they very clearly did the

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Speaker 3: best clean and p operation they possibly could. But of

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Speaker 3: course it was too late because Gary had this case

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Speaker 3: with these six fragments of metal and two fragments of foiling.

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Speaker 3: Which is the point where he contacted me, because when

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Speaker 3: we decided there was nothing to dig up, I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: that's my job over and done with. And then he

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Speaker 3: just sort of threw it at the end and he said, ah,

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Speaker 3: but I've got some pieces of the crash debris in

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Speaker 3: my garage, and I'm like, oh, Okay, now we're talking,

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Speaker 3: and I sort of dove it. That was two thousand

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Speaker 3: and eight when we did the documentary, the original europe

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Speaker 3: Throstwel documentary on the crash, which you can now find

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Speaker 3: on YouTube. It's on Drake Michigan. There's an hour long documentary.

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Speaker 3: But that was for twenty five years of the crash.

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Speaker 3: Of course, now we're aughty years since the crash. He's

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Speaker 3: given us a chance to re examine the case in

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Speaker 3: the light of any new evidence we can generate, and

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Speaker 3: we have got quite a bit.

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Speaker 2: So back in that era, when you're first handling these samples,

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Speaker 2: when they're in your hand, right, what are you thinking

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Speaker 2: about it?

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Speaker 3: I just took one look at this material and I

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Speaker 3: just thought, I have absolutely no idea what I'm looking at.

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Speaker 3: Gary got a similar response from the folks that he

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Speaker 3: spoke to. There's a couple of ladies worked in airplanes.

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Speaker 3: They had a look in the aerospace industry. They had

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Speaker 3: no idea what it was. Then he moved further up

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Speaker 3: and a friend of his who was a scientist, didn't

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Speaker 3: know what it was. And then so he moved a

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Speaker 3: little bit further. He managed to get a piece of

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Speaker 3: it through to British airspace, which is our you know,

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Speaker 3: military and domestic developers, if you like. And they sent

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Speaker 3: it back and they said, well, it looks like Dur Alamin,

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Speaker 3: but we haven't really got any idea what this is. Either.

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Speaker 3: There's a robbery coating on it we can't identify, there's

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Speaker 3: some resin we can't identify, and we'd very much like

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Speaker 3: to know how this was made. So at that point

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Speaker 3: anybody that could have told us what it was kind

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Speaker 3: of disavowed it and said, well, you know, we have

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Speaker 3: no idea what we're looking at here, and that's where

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Speaker 3: it stopped. I mean, that's where the investigation had had parked,

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Speaker 3: if you like, in the eighties and nineties, and then

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Speaker 3: coming into the two thousands, we obviously brought that back

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Speaker 3: to life. We did the documentary, we highlighted the case,

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Speaker 3: and then we sort of start moving that forward. And

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Speaker 3: that assessment of the materials turned out to only be

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Speaker 3: partially true, it's not entirely true.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's let's jump into that then. So you've I

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Speaker 2: saw an article about your book before I dove into

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Speaker 2: the book itself, and it said that there had been

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Speaker 2: two labs in the US that examined this stuff. Do

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Speaker 2: you want to share with what their findings were? You

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Speaker 2: want to pull that off?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's sort of ongoing if you like.

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Speaker 3: There were two labs. Philip mantle Line disc Press, who

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Speaker 3: is the publisher, is fairly well known in the UFO community.

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Speaker 3: It's been around a tremendously long time, far better known

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Speaker 3: than I am. And he identified two labs, one actually

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Speaker 3: in Australia and one in the USA, which we decided

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Speaker 3: was probably the best way to go so independently of

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Speaker 3: each laboratory, without knowing what we were doing. We sent

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Speaker 3: one metal sample off to Australia another metal sample off,

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Speaker 3: which is the first time that ever happened. Gary's very

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Speaker 3: protective of the material. He has so to release samples

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Speaker 3: for analysis. We were quite amazed that he was willing

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Speaker 3: to do that. Anyway, we sent it off. Australian analysis

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Speaker 3: came back and basically said, yes, it's aluminum, but it's

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Speaker 3: not duralamin, it's aluminum foam. Now, I had absolutely no

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Speaker 3: idea what aluminum phone was and they said, well, you

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Speaker 3: can mix aluminium with a reactive substance. It produces a

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Speaker 3: phone which then hardens at room temperature, and you can

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Speaker 3: use that to make things, you know, you can produce

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Speaker 3: sheet metal, et cetera, et cetera. But their analysis came

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Speaker 3: back and said, well, this clearly it's not one of theirs,

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Speaker 3: it's one of outurs. We know what this is. We're

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Speaker 3: familiar with the reaction, and by the way, it looks

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Speaker 3: like it's got some American kind of resin glues stuck

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Speaker 3: on it. Well, almost at the same time we get

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Speaker 3: the report back from America. America comes back and says,

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Speaker 3: we have absolutely no idea what this is. Literally you

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Speaker 3: opened the report. It's just a substance unknown, and it

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Speaker 3: turns out that it's over ninety four percent lanthium or lanthanum,

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Speaker 3: which is an exotic metal. It's a rare earth metal.

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Speaker 3: It's extremely hard to extract, but it's very common. It's

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Speaker 3: all over the place. It's a bit like quartz. It's

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Speaker 3: you know, it's in galaxies, meteorites, planet stars, upper atmosphere,

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Speaker 3: the whole of the planets full of it. You know.

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Speaker 3: But it costs literally hundreds of millions of dollars to

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Speaker 3: get any quantity of this stuff out to extract it.

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Speaker 3: It's really difficult to get hold of and they said, oh,

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Speaker 3: and by the way, the glue, we have no idea

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Speaker 3: what the glue is, so it's clearly not an American glue.

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Speaker 3: It turns out that two pieces we'd sent were actually different.

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Speaker 3: One piece which looks like internal shell, that's the aluminium sheet,

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Speaker 3: aluminium based, and then the other stuff, which looks like

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Speaker 3: the external shell, that's the stuff that's made from lantium lanthanum.

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Speaker 3: But then you've then got to engineer that information backwards.

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Speaker 3: You can't just leave it there, and you've got to say, okay,

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Speaker 3: they would have had to have developed that in the

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Speaker 3: late nineteen seventies to be able to then have something

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Speaker 3: flying in the early nineteen eighties with that kind of

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Speaker 3: technology on it. So that's a mystery. We've got absolutely

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Speaker 3: no idea what's going on there, and lanthium being expensive

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Speaker 3: now it's difficult to get all of now, back then,

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Speaker 3: getting all the six foot sheets of this would have

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Speaker 3: been unthinkable. And then you've got to look at this

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Speaker 3: and think, okay, it's pretty much identical to everything we

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Speaker 3: know about the debris from the Roswell crash. So that

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Speaker 3: takes it all the way back to nineteen forty seven.

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Speaker 3: So what are we looking at here. You know, you've

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Speaker 3: only really got three alternatives. It's either one of ours

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Speaker 3: and we developed it, and it's something that's come out

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Speaker 3: of the Second World War technology race, it's one of theirs,

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Speaker 3: in which case it is a proper full blown UFO,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's come from elsewhere, it's extra terrestrial, or

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Speaker 3: it's the third option, it's back engineered. It's something in

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Speaker 3: the middle. And at the moment, that's where we're going

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Speaker 3: with this. We're trying to push into those results, if

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Speaker 3: you like. As an issue. We're trying to find out

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Speaker 3: exactly what's going on here. That's where we are.

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Speaker 2: Can you discuss ideas possibilities of what might have caused

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Speaker 2: the crash? Was there a weather disturbance, was there military

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Speaker 2: activity in the area, anything like that.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's there sufficient people involved in this to have

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Speaker 3: records of that. So we did a freedom of information

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Speaker 3: request to the mod which didn't really help at all.

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Speaker 3: It just came back and said, nope, we have no records.

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Speaker 3: You know, apparently nothing was lost, you know, nothing was

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Speaker 3: on radar, We didn't see anything, which is pretty much

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Speaker 3: that kind of cover up playbook that you would expect.

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Speaker 3: But not apparently nothing happened. Obviously at the time, nobody

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Speaker 3: heard anything, nobody saw anything. It happened at night in

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Speaker 3: the middle of nowhere, So that's not helpful either. And

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Speaker 3: then you've got this issue of the idea of well

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Speaker 3: did it implode or explode? Was it the fact that

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Speaker 3: it had slowed down so it was going at the

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Speaker 3: wrong speed and when it was impacted, when it was

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Speaker 3: hit by these trees, it broke up like eggshell. Because

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Speaker 3: Gary noted when he tried to break some of this

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Speaker 3: material up, he said, if you attack it, you stamp

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Speaker 3: on it, you hit it, you try and chisel it

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Speaker 3: and cut it, it pushes back. You can't actually break

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Speaker 3: the material up. But if you go at it really slowly,

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Speaker 3: to get hold of it with a set of players

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Speaker 3: and just wiggle it slowly and do it at very

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Speaker 3: low pressure, you can take pieces off it. It will

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Speaker 3: come apart. So it looks like it that's what had happened.

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Speaker 3: Whatever had hit the trees had done it out of

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Speaker 3: its normal comfort zone, if you like, and that's why

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Speaker 3: it had broken up. So some of the pieces are

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Speaker 3: slightly curved, so you know it could have exploded. They

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Speaker 3: kind of concave or convex, so maybe that had something

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Speaker 3: to do with the way it broke up, But the

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Speaker 3: main bulk of it, the majority of it, wasn't there.

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Speaker 3: You know, it had scattered all of this debris and

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Speaker 3: then vanished. So yeah, there's something of that sort of

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Speaker 3: ilk is going on here. So there's no like silver

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Speaker 3: disc with alien bodies hanging out of it. It's a shame.

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Speaker 3: I wish there was.

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Speaker 2: You file a foyer request with the Administry of Defense.

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Speaker 2: What about when the forestry folks, I'd be interested to

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Speaker 2: see if there's a paper trail that the details why

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Speaker 2: they decided to go after and cut the forest down.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that goes back to Gary. Gary did a

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Speaker 3: lot of the legwork on that. Because he's a local, obviously,

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Speaker 3: he's got absolutely every right to do that and pursue

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Speaker 3: things with the authorities. He drew a blank with the

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Speaker 3: Forestry Commission. They weren't willing to go any further than

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Speaker 3: claiming it was wind damage. But he did discover that

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Speaker 3: there is actually quite a big triangular area where these

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Speaker 3: flying craft are known. There are other witnesses of things

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Speaker 3: coming up out of the ocean in Cardigan Bay and

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Speaker 3: flying in land and they zip up and down the

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Speaker 3: valleys and technically speak in the Mersey Valley where I

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Speaker 3: live is the most northern part of that valley system.

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Speaker 3: And then he started speaking to the coast and they said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we've got a number for the mod If we see

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Speaker 3: anything coming up out of the bay, if we see

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Speaker 3: any lights or anything, we just phone them and report them.

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Speaker 3: So it's part of a bigger, much bigger kind of

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Speaker 3: thing that's going on in Wales. Wales is quite a

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Speaker 3: clear area, but these things are zipping up and down

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Speaker 3: the valleys and flying around. They're doing it in North

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Speaker 3: Wales to some extent, they're doing in South Wales as well,

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Speaker 3: but those encounters are quite different. And Garry is an eyewitness.

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Speaker 3: He's seen many things, many many things up in the

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Speaker 3: northern part of Wales. So it's it is part of

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Speaker 3: a bigger picture. And like I say, he did the

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Speaker 3: due diligence and he contacted as many folks as he

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Speaker 3: could and he unearthed a lot of evidence, but not

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Speaker 3: directly pertinent to this particular impact, which again has another

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Speaker 3: commonality with Roswell. It's incredibly difficult to pin down anything

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Speaker 3: that's directly connected to this as an incident.

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Speaker 2: So this area has a history of UFO activity, and

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Speaker 2: you so activity, I guess craft coming out of the ocean.

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Speaker 2: How far back does that go?

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Speaker 3: Oh, well, we know it. We know it goes back

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Speaker 3: at least at least to the nineteen seventies. I mean, please,

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Speaker 3: don't get this confused. There was the famous Berwin Mountain incident,

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Speaker 3: which everyone else has to know about. Obviously, that's nineteen seventy. Fourth,

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Speaker 3: you've gone back a decade there already. Prior to that.

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Speaker 3: There are a great deal of eyewitness accounts that take

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Speaker 3: you into the nineteen sixties. Obviously, I've got my accounts

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Speaker 3: which I've thrown into the melting pot. Well, their seventies

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Speaker 3: and eighties, So i'd imagine, I would imagine that you've

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Speaker 3: got fairly reliable witnesses going back as far as the

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifties. Gary might actually take it back a bit further.

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Speaker 3: He's an older generation to me, so the people he's

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Speaker 3: spoken to and the locals that live there, they can

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Speaker 3: remember things happening just after the Second World War. So

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Speaker 3: again you're sort of in the same ballpark, if you like,

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Speaker 3: as things that are occurring at places like Roswell so

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Speaker 3: many overlaps in what we're seeing here, which is why

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Speaker 3: we were bold enough to kind of step out and

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Speaker 3: label the book the way we have. I think if

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Speaker 3: people buy it and read it, I mean it's only

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Speaker 3: a small book, but buy held it back to punch,

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Speaker 3: it goes at quite a speed as well. You know,

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Speaker 3: you can sit there on the veranda with a coffee

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Speaker 3: and sort of you know, digest it in a matter

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Speaker 3: of two or three hours. It's worth it because the

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Speaker 3: comparisons are many and varied. They really are. On the

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Speaker 3: other thing I should say as well, is it is

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Speaker 3: a show and tell book. You'll notice that every photo,

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Speaker 3: every bit of the report, everything we had available. We

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Speaker 3: threw everything at it because we want to get that

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Speaker 3: information out there. You know. It's part of this. You know,

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Speaker 3: we're not exactly kicking down the door of disclosure, but

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Speaker 3: we're certainly scratching at it. You know, we're kind of

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Speaker 3: saying to the military high there, you know, this is

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Speaker 3: in the public domain. We've already got this.

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Speaker 2: I'd be a little nervous about where I kept the

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Speaker 2: remaining pieces. To think that you and Gary would be

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Speaker 2: very careful about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a good point, actually, there's a story there.

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Speaker 3: Gary was very clever because he broke one of these

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Speaker 3: pieces up and made key rings, and he gave the

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Speaker 3: key rings out to people he knew that were connected

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Speaker 3: with news and the media as well as other eufologists,

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Speaker 3: And basically somewhere in the February March of the year

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Speaker 3: when he recovered this, he got a knock on the

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Speaker 3: door and he said he could see these two black

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Speaker 3: figures and he opened the door. Sure enough, two men

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Speaker 3: in black dressed in black, black ties, hats, dark glasses,

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Speaker 3: you know, incomprehensible passes, and he said it just parked

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Speaker 3: up his clothes for a couple of you know, blacked

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Speaker 3: out SUVs with no number plates, and they basically said,

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Speaker 3: can we have our metal back? Can we have our

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Speaker 3: seals back? And Gary just said, no, you can't. And

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Speaker 3: they said why. He said, because I've done this, have

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Speaker 3: broken them up into key rings, handed them out and

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Speaker 3: he said, Gary said, if you ever come here again, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to tell all these people to release all

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Speaker 3: this to the media. You've got to remember this is

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighties. So anyway, these dark, dark guys we just

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Speaker 3: got in the and drove off. That was it. It

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Speaker 3: was you know, fair to complete. But the stuff he's

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Speaker 3: got in his case, he doesn't keep at home. He

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Speaker 3: keeps it in a lock up and it very rarely

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Speaker 3: does that venture out. So he's very protective of it,

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Speaker 3: you know, rightly. So you know, absolutely it's good physical evidence.

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Speaker 3: You know, we can actually go look, we've got it,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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