WEBVTT - The TikTok-ification of TV is Coming 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.479 Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:12.760 which we speak with some of the brightest minds working 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.720 in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein, chief media 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:21.000 analyst with Variety Intelligence Platform. Got no guests this week, 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.319 and I'll tell you why, because I, as one of 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.240 the raining media gurus coming to you each week on 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:31.400 Strictly Business, could not do another interview for this podcast, 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:36.360 dear listener without talking about a profound transformation I've recently 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:40.440 undergone with my own personal media habits. There's just no 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.760 other way to say it. TikTok has broken my middle 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:57.840 aged brain. Stick around, and I'll explain why. Welcome back 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.720 by I record this day's after President Trump issued in 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:04.520 executive order granting a seventy five day extension on the 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.760 TikTok ban in order to facilitate a sale to an 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.520 American company. There is so much to say about the 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.839 implications of all this from a business perspective, a cultural perspective. 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:18.560 But you know what, you won't hear any of that 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.560 from me on this edition of the podcast, because, as 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.640 I said, I cannot in good conscience sit here any 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.600 longer like it's just another episode and pontificate per usual 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.320 about all things media with guests until I've come clean 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:34.720 about what has hit me with the force of a 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:39.200 religious experience in recent months, and maybe a spiritual metaphor 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:41.720 is the best way to explain what I'm trying to convey. 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:47.080 After fifty years of faithful devotion to TV, I've converted 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:47.680 to TikTok. 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:49.160 Yep. 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.960 Somehow, the controversial app has become my primary media destination 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.680 every day instead of television. And when I say television, 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:02.080 I mean both pay TV and some description streaming TV 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:06.160 shows and movies have taken a backseat to TikTok's never ending, 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:11.240 algorithmically targeted feed of short form videos. The advertising is 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:13.799 so light touch I barely notice it, and best of all, 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.440 it's totally free, yet I'd probably pay for it if 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:20.760 I had to. And though I am pathetically late to 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.640 the party and just too darn old to be captivated 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.040 by TikTok in the first place, I must share what 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.960 this experience has been like because it's left me with 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:34.040 some observations about not just this powerful platform, but the 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.679 future of media in general. I know it's a lot 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.560 to take in, and I'm as surprised to hear these 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.480 words coming out of my mouth as anyone, because prior 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:48.640 to my conversion, I've always found something dystopian about the 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:53.320 whole notion of TikTok. User generated clips shot rapid fire 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:59.040 into my cerebral cortex, shredding my attention span. But what 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.720 can I say? That sweet sweet algorithm has worked its 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.880 magic on my mind over enough time to cast a 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:10.560 spell on me. I've come to love meme culture and 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:15.440 the relative absence of mainstream media culture on the platform. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.200 And there's just so much more that I'll get into here. 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.440 But before I pontificate any further, let me just acknowledge 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.600 this much. I totally get it. If your reaction to 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.959 what little I've said so far is okay, boomer, thanks 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.120 but no thanks, not interested in insights from the last 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.840 oldest TikTok adopter on Earth? Why don't you come back 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.840 next week? Some hot takes on what MySpace or for 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.480 inster was like too, And I get it. That's a 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.160 totally valid reaction, though I should point out first I'm 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:52.080 not a boomer. I'm Generation X old, but not that old. 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:54.720 If you want to just bail right now before I 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.400 unpack this any further, I could accept that you won't 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.200 hurt my feelings. I'm sure there's a fresh four our 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.640 Joe Rogan interview that's a better use of your time. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:08.000 But for those of you who have stuck around first, 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.920 thanks for giving me a chance. I should also clarify 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.200 it's not like I suddenly discovered TikTok in twenty twenty 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.159 five after crawling out from under whatever rock I was 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.000 living under. I've had the app on my phone for 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.599 several years for the occasion when someone mentioned something I 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.080 wanted to see on TikTok, I'd use the app to 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:30.359 check it out, always wondering, considering its vaunted algorithm, whether 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.160 it was akin to taking a hit from a crack pipe. 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.560 But I would dip in, dip out, figuring I was 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:41.599 old enough to be impervious to its charms until this year. 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.599 What drew me to TikTok long enough to get sufficiently 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:49.800 seduced this time around came late last year, when the 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.480 political drama around the app's existence was at its high point. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.160 I was curious to get a first hand sense of 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.279 how the crisis was being felt by the TikTok Faithful 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.440 and truth be told. While I was struck by the 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.359 creativity and passion of many on the platform. I wasn't 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.000 impressed anymore by what I was seeing on TikTok than 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.240 I was on any other social platform. You have to 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:16.840 understand I've been following digital native content trends for nearly 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.599 two decades, dating back to the earliest days of YouTube 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.919 and the earliest flowerings of the creator economy, back before 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.480 it was called the creator economy, before they were even 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:31.240 called influencers. And I followed these trends as the momentum 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.280 move from one platform to another, whether it was Vine 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:39.200 or Switch or Snapchat, each had their own quirks and idiosyncrasies. 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.080 But through it all, I always prided myself on keeping 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:46.960 a kind of anthropological detachment from it all. I admired 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.120 from a distance, but never really got drawn in personally. 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.680 But now, in twenty twenty five, the truth is the 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:58.480 programming experience of TikTok has been so thoroughly co opted 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:03.280 by rival copycat products like Instagram reels and YouTube shorts 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.800 that when I talk about TikTok, I'm not really talking 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:12.120 about TikTok per se. It's format that algorithmically targeted torrent 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:16.240 of short form videos curated by my thumb swiping with 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:20.279 such reptilian efficiency, it almost feels like my hand is 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:24.320 operating independently from my brain. I call it the clip 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.719 scroll format. TikTok created it, but apparently couldn't patent it. 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:33.400 That said, TikTok's algorithmic magic may be more powerful than 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.719 the other platforms, at the very least deserves credit for 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:43.240 pioneering the format that's become so addictive. Addiction. Yeah, that's 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.440 a word I must admit I shouldn't be using loosely 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.360 when it comes to TikTok or any social apps. There 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.159 are serious concerns about the power they have, particularly with 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.800 its youngest users. Not to mention the serious concerns about 0:06:55.800 --> 0:07:00.560 the potential espionage risk that TikTok app presents, I'd be 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:05.440 remissing not referencing these dangers. And yet I must admit 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.640 none of that stop me from falling head over heels 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:12.920 in love with TikTok. And here's what may be the 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.520 most tragic part of all. I see that the hours 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.640 I spend on TikTok now each day clearly come at 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.280 the expense of the time I used to spend watching TV. 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.720 I just don't watch. I just don't watch a half 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.760 hour or hour long shows at the volume that I 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.800 used to. When after enjoying the first season of Severance recently, 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.440 I found myself bored with season two. Even amid all 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:41.000 that hype, I wondered if my TV taste buds were 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:45.960 somehow permanently broken. Well, at least I'm still watching White Lotus, 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.120 though I think that's about the only TV show I've 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.880 been watching these days. But here's the thing. It's hard 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.840 not to give TikTok credit for stealing the wind from 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:59.520 TV sales, because when I reflect on TikTok's bounty, I 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.600 see the seeds of so much what I had previously 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:07.240 gotten from TV, super served by TikTok. Let me start 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:11.640 with a counter intuitive example. I've really gotten to enjoy 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:15.200 keeping up with what the biggest memes are on TikTok. 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.080 The one that I cannot seem to get out of 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.880 my head right now is people dancing to a rap 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:26.360 song called you Gotta cut It, cut It, cut It, 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:30.880 cut It, cut It, cut It, cut It, cut it, 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.280 cut it Now. Maybe hip hop isn't your cup of tea, 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.240 but I promise, if you let this earworm in your brain, 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.079 it's gonna burrow so deep in there you'll never get 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.600 it out. But let me get back to my point. 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.400 How is something like memes, which are so particular to 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:49.439 the Internet and not television, end up displacing my TV habit? Well, 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.160 this is why I think. Part of what has made 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:56.160 memes so compelling to me is that in our increasingly 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.160 fragmented culture, where so many people are experiencing different and 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.360 content a far cry from decades ago when the TV 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.080 was the great unifying force that could bring together tens 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.480 of millions of people on any given night, These memes 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.640 and the way people play on them are as close 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.760 to unifying our culture in its own interactive way. They 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.320 make me feel connected to a larger culture and so 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.280 you got to cut it and just feels more important 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.840 to me right now than say, white lotus. Now, I 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.839 know what you're thinking, Andy, This kind of mean play 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:33.120 has been around on other platforms long before TikTok, So 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.560 what makes so special here? And to that, I say, 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:41.400 it's just different. On TikTok the level of creativity employed 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.400 and the memes feels higher. And for those who disagree 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:46.760 with that, okay, But here's where I think there's no 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:52.320 argument the TikTok ux is just a superior delivery mechanism 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.280 than any other social platform. Maybe it's the same old content, 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.960 but it's different now. And I'll tell you what else. 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.520 Maybe it's something particular to my feed, certainly not something 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:08.520 I set out to cultivate. But the mainstream Hollywood galaxy 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.960 of stars has such a muted presence in my feed. 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:15.160 Don't get me wrong. I follow the accounts on TikTok 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:19.120 of dozens of actors, performers, singers, whatever, and I know 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:24.160 that sounds like a knock against mainstream Hollywood entertainment culture, 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.600 but it's not meant to be. There's plenty I like 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.679 about the culture that I get everywhere else, But on 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.199 TikTok it feels like the algorithm just intuitive that I 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.240 would prefer to turn the dimmer down on the celebrity 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:43.560 industrial complex. They don't loom nearly as large on TikTok, 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:47.760 which doesn't have the top down entertainer elite separated by 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:52.520 the unwashed mass audiences. It's a more democratic medium where 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.840 the distinction between the entertainer and the audience doesn't really exist. 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.280 It's such a refreshing differentiating thing that makes the app 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.160 just a fascinating world to inhabit, and into the vacuum 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.800 of all the oxygen that the celebrity industrial complex typically 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:12.240 sucks up steps in this explosion of homegrown talent on 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:16.280 the platform. Now, I wouldn't blame you if you started 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.680 to get an ick feeling right about now thinking about 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.440 the brand name creators out there, from mister Beast to 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.000 the Paul Brothers. I'm just not a huge fan of 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.520 these types, because there's something off putting to me about 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:34.120 how sweaty that class of entertainers comes off, constantly shilling 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:37.560 for themselves with they're desperate hit the subscribe button pitches 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.160 and shilling for whatever brand is paying them. But that's 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.760 not who populate my TikTok feed. Those who do are 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:49.240 mostly thousands of not famous at least yet, people who 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.240 may not be household names, but they've got talent. Watching 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.040 TikTok makes you feel like what many of us already 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.239 suspect about Hollywood. It's not as if their most successful 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.839 performers possess some kind of rare talent that separates them 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.720 from the masses, like the way you say your average 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.200 pro athlete is world's better than ninety nine percent of 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:13.280 the rest of the population. Now, TikTok gives the lie 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.200 to that notion by exposing that there's many many people 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.160 out there with comparable levels of talent to the lucky 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.040 group that makes it through the Hollywood machine and onto 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:27.440 our screens. And these many, many people just needed a 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:32.560 discovery mechanism powerful enough to elevate them. And that's where 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.880 TikTok comes in. If you had to pin me down 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.760 to defining in one word, what gives TikTok gets a llure, 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:43.920 I'm going to use a very scientific term, the vibe. Okay, 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.280 maybe I'll need a few more words to capture what 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:50.320 that vibe is. It's like everyone on TikTok is in 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.040 a dance circle, taking turns, making each other laugh at 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.880 the center with the silly jig. It's like you're inviting 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.840 let me try something else. It's like you're invited to 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.559 this gigantic potluck dinner where many people have taken it 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.959 upon themselves to generously share the content they've cooked up, 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.319 and you have this endless buffet that just gets shotgunned 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:15.440 into your mouth in perfect little snackable bites. I myself 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:19.719 don't contribute content, preferring to stay what they call, in 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:24.240 Internet parlance, a lurker. But that's not unusual. A Pew 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.120 Research Center study last year found that just twenty five 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.000 percent of the most active people on the platform produced 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.200 ninety eight percent of its content. Let me try to 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.000 capture what I love about TikTok using a TV metaphor 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.840 of sorts. Imagine if Saturday Night Live was a medium 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.880 onto itself. Instead of about twenty performers Lauren Michael's pluck 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.440 from obscurity, there's about one thousand more cast members just 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:53.160 cranking out comedic vignettes on their own instead of relying 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.319 on Lauren's taste and sketches, which frankly is a mixed 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.760 track record. That's a subject for another podcast. You could 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.400 just curate your own group from a vast sea of 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.920 talent that you didn't know existed. And like SNL, some 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.280 of the comedy comes from some pretty classic categories, like 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.120 celebrity impressionists. But on an average episode of SNL, you're 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.120 lucky if you'll see more than two impressionisms at work. 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.600 On TikTok, you could sift through two hundred of them 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.360 in a minute, and the quality differential from what you 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.280 see on SNL. It's not that slim. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:26.840 Look. 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.720 I love James Austin Johnson's Trump impression on SNL. He's 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:35.560 a genius. But you know what, someone who calls herself 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:40.360 d doo dah on TikTok, she's not bad herself. If 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.560 you wanted to find a random what looks to be 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.440 high school student with just three thousand followers whose Trump 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.720 impression in her own words is quote if he was 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:55.720 a baby or had inhaled helium, well here for yourself, 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:57.000 baby Trump. 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.160 On the way to the airport. I like my suitcase, frankly, 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.360 but I've seen like very big ones in China, frankly, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.240 and I'm thinking that I want my mommy to buy 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:10.800 me a bigger ones. I'm not very statisfied. 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:12.880 What can I say? The sight of a girl who 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.040 can't be a day over sixteen doing a Trump impression 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.920 kills me every time. Now, the thing to keep in 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.240 mind here is d doo dah isn't some rare hidden 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.640 gem on TikTok. More like a dime a dozen. You see, 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.040 TikTok is like a metal detector for sucking all the 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.280 needles from the haystack. The algorithm sees what you like 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.160 and seamlessly hits you with like ten more of the 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:40.720 same thing. And I understand these people that I'm finding 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.840 on TikTok. They're not new or exclusive to the platform. 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.200 They may even have bigger followings on other platforms where 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.240 they got their start before moving to TikTok. I'm sure 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.360 I've seen their videos years ago, but the point is 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.120 that TikTok is the platform that made this experience sticky. 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.560 I've been on Instagram YouTube for many years and have 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.120 never felt anything like the rabbit hole drop that TikTok 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.880 delivers every time out. And there's a lot of different 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.560 types of comedy to choose from. I've gotten into this 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.040 whole cottage industry of teachers who like to imitate their 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.200 young students. And I'm a dad, so there's like five 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.320 hundred men out there contributing dad jokes into my feed 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.880 in an endless supply. And as a married man, I 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.480 also enjoy the entire genre of couple's humor, where real 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:33.760 life husband and wives who fancy themselves comedy duos dissect 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:38.480 relationship pitfalls pretty endlessly. I think my favorite is a 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:43.120 well known TikTok pairing Alex and John, who have millions 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:43.760 of followers. 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.920 John, are you serious? What can you not pick this up? 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:47.760 They're not in the way. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.840 It's lazy, John. We both live here, Okay, it's a mess. 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.760 Pile of your clothes, Well that's different. They're on a chair, 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.400 so they're elevated out of the way. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.280 It's a pile of shit, just like mine. 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.800 It is not a It is an organized mess, and 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:02.920 I know where everything is. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:04.919 I just can't admit that we're the same. And it 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:06.679 just kills you to know that we both have a 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:08.760 pile of shit. But for some reason you think your 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:10.080 pile of shit is better than mine. 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.000 But it's not fine. I won't talk about your pile 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:14.680 of shit if you don't talk about mine. 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:20.280 Honestly, you watch these two long enough and you'll understand 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.800 why comparisons to TV classics like I Love Lucy and 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:28.119 The Honeymooners aren't so far fetched. Whether the comedy is 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.080 thirty minutes or in the case of Alex and John, 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:34.679 sometimes like thirty seconds, the connection is pretty clear. And 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:36.280 to bring this back to what I was saying about 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.320 TikTok as a TV substitute, this is a perfect example 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:42.800 Alex and John feel to me like the kind of 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.679 couple centric sitcoms I used to watch all the time 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.439 but just don't see on TV anymore. I mean, forget 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.240 about couple sitcoms. I don't find myself watching sitcoms at all. Really, 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.800 And have you seen a comedy in a movie theater lately? 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.399 Come to think of it, I think you could draw 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.600 an even broader conclusion that the vast array of comedy 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.080 you can overdose on TikTok comes at the expense of 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.680 the rest of media. I just don't think it's a 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.840 coincidence that comedy could not seem more dead in film 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.720 and TV right now, while on TikTok it's alive and well. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.560 Now I realize I've been painting a picture in this 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.680 podcast of TikTok standing apart from the rest of culture. 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.119 But after the break I'll get into why that's not 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:37.520 an accurate picture entirely. We are back with my endless 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:42.760 jeremiad about the state of television and the triumph that 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.840 I think TikTok has had its expense. And look, it's 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.480 not that pop culture as we know it is absent 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.920 from TikTok. Now TikTok is very much in dialogue with culture, 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.080 but instead of just being like another TV channel or 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.720 movie theater or streaming service or the performer and programs 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:05.240 djor distribute their content, TikTokers meet these brands on their 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.600 own terms, and those terms are typically through the filter 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:13.240 of fan worship or ridicule. Like any other social platform, 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.719 it's where the water cooler conversation happens, even though the 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.960 content that spurs the conversation isn't available on the platform. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.959 For instance, if there's one TV show I've Stuck with 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.959 its White Lotus, but no episode is complete without watching 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:32.160 all the satirical reactions each episode prompts, the most famous 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.080 of which is mining maximum yucks out of every heavily 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:41.520 accent accented utterance from Parker Posey's mouth. But it's not 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.640 just about sharing the post, it's each user putting their 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.159 own unique spin on it, like this one set to 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:49.640 auto tune. 0:19:49.480 --> 0:20:01.439 Like I love tsunami, no hyper no bis no, And 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:03.920 then you know, we just played on that, so it 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:06.399 just started to grow and grow. 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.440 To take it a step further, I'll take you back 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:19.000 to a recent episode of this podcast in which I 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.600 interviewed the head of research at Warner Brothers Discovery, who 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:26.119 shared research suggesting that while social video consumption is drawing 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.560 away eyeballs from studio content, it's also very much a 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:34.119 valuable promotional driver to that content off platform, like back 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.040 on a Netflix or at your local cineplex or what 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.560 have you. These are fan accounts I follow that spit 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.719 out nothing but clips of TV shows I enjoyed ages 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:47.520 ago but had no plans to revisit. Like community and 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:52.320 entourage that make me reappreciate enough to increase the likelihood 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.359 of me revisiting an episode. But I think TikTok serves 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.520 an additional function as something of a highlight reel for 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:01.960 content I'm just not going to follow back to the 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:06.480 TV because the excerpted clips from that programming is how 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.119 I want to consume it. With all due respect to 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.920 the great late night comedians like Colbert and Kimmel and 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.120 John Stewart, on and on, I'm not going to sit 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.680 down for a long form linear TV experience. I want 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:21.320 the best moments from those shows sliced and diced in 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:23.439 my feed, or I'm just not going to watch it 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:27.760 at all. Sorry. And the same goes for news content. 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:31.080 Whether it's coming from twenty four hour news networks or newspapers, 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.480 all of them have TikTok accounts. But I will say that, 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:37.399 unlike with comedy, where I find myself enjoying lots of 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.800 new personalities and in addition to a highlight reel of 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:44.760 establishment figures, with news, I find myself sticking to the 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.200 tried and true brands. I know there's a lot of 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.399 amateur commentators and analysts doing their thing on TikTok, but 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:54.240 it just doesn't do it for me, and I don't 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:56.520 want to forget to acknowledge that TikTok has been home 0:21:56.520 --> 0:22:00.399 to lots of different experimentation and narrative driven storytelling but 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.760 in short form formats. But like news, nothing really is 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.120 stuck with me yet, though I have a feeling maybe 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:11.639 that's just a matter of time. Take the Chinese microdrama Fomenon, 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.359 for instance. They maintain a healthy presence on TikTok, though 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:19.480 that's really just a promotional platform for driving consumers off 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:22.399 platform to apps of their own, like Real Short and 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:26.640 Drama Box. Look. I find most of this content unwatchable. 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:28.879 It's just not my cup of tea. But when you 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:32.440 see this ferment of creativity. You have to wonder whether, 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:37.320 as unthinkable as it sounds, there's an inevitability to TikTokers 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:40.240 cracking the code on the kind of content it will 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:45.320 feel more directly competitive with traditional dramas. Maybe the closest 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:47.600 thing to that is a whole genre of what I'd 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:52.280 call confessional videos, where real people of all kinds candidly 0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:55.240 share from the struggles in their lives on TikTok, and 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:58.720 they interact with the fan bases they build there. It's 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:03.920 pure monologues, but they have that voyeuristic frison you get 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:08.399 from watching good reality TV. There's so much more I 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:10.600 get out of TikTok. We'd be here all day if 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.639 I drilled too deep into any one of the many 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:16.600 categories of content that float my boat. Like I'm an 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:19.920 avid road biker, so I watch videos of bikers in action. 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:23.240 Been playing a lot of basketball lately, So I watch 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:27.439 instructors break down all sorts of shooting mechanics used to 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:29.960 DJ but back in my younger days, And so I 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:34.840 have endless appetite for watching amateur spinners honkered over their MPCs, 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:42.360 pounding out homemade beats. But this infinite variety also works 0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:46.679 against TikTok. I believe you see. The algorithm is like 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:50.919 this machine gun with incredible aim, mowing down every interest 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:54.919 I have. But here's the thing. Sometimes I'm in the 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:57.919 mood for biking videos. Sometimes I want to listen to 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:02.520 the DJs. Sometimes I want memes. But TikTok doesn't hand 0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:05.600 me a menu of my favorite subjects and ask me 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:08.840 which one I like. As powerful as its algorithm is, 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:14.000 it insists on pushing everything I like to me indiscriminately 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:17.760 in one feed. As amazing as TikTok has been its 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:20.439 sucking the wind out of TV, it falls short for 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:25.720 me by not taking TV's more channel centric approach. It's 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:30.359