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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in

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Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working

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Speaker 1: in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein, chief media

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Speaker 1: analyst with Variety Intelligence Platform. Got no guests this week,

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Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why, because I, as one of

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Speaker 1: the raining media gurus coming to you each week on

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Speaker 1: Strictly Business, could not do another interview for this podcast,

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Speaker 1: dear listener without talking about a profound transformation I've recently

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Speaker 1: undergone with my own personal media habits. There's just no

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Speaker 1: other way to say it. TikTok has broken my middle

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Speaker 1: aged brain. Stick around, and I'll explain why. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: by I record this day's after President Trump issued in

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Speaker 1: executive order granting a seventy five day extension on the

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Speaker 1: TikTok ban in order to facilitate a sale to an

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Speaker 1: American company. There is so much to say about the

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Speaker 1: implications of all this from a business perspective, a cultural perspective.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, you won't hear any of that

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Speaker 1: from me on this edition of the podcast, because, as

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Speaker 1: I said, I cannot in good conscience sit here any

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Speaker 1: longer like it's just another episode and pontificate per usual

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Speaker 1: about all things media with guests until I've come clean

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Speaker 1: about what has hit me with the force of a

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Speaker 1: religious experience in recent months, and maybe a spiritual metaphor

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Speaker 1: is the best way to explain what I'm trying to convey.

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Speaker 1: After fifty years of faithful devotion to TV, I've converted

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Speaker 1: to TikTok.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Somehow, the controversial app has become my primary media destination

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Speaker 1: every day instead of television. And when I say television,

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Speaker 1: I mean both pay TV and some description streaming TV

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Speaker 1: shows and movies have taken a backseat to TikTok's never ending,

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Speaker 1: algorithmically targeted feed of short form videos. The advertising is

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Speaker 1: so light touch I barely notice it, and best of all,

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Speaker 1: it's totally free, yet I'd probably pay for it if

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Speaker 1: I had to. And though I am pathetically late to

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Speaker 1: the party and just too darn old to be captivated

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Speaker 1: by TikTok in the first place, I must share what

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Speaker 1: this experience has been like because it's left me with

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Speaker 1: some observations about not just this powerful platform, but the

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Speaker 1: future of media in general. I know it's a lot

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Speaker 1: to take in, and I'm as surprised to hear these

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Speaker 1: words coming out of my mouth as anyone, because prior

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Speaker 1: to my conversion, I've always found something dystopian about the

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Speaker 1: whole notion of TikTok. User generated clips shot rapid fire

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Speaker 1: into my cerebral cortex, shredding my attention span. But what

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Speaker 1: can I say? That sweet sweet algorithm has worked its

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Speaker 1: magic on my mind over enough time to cast a

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Speaker 1: spell on me. I've come to love meme culture and

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Speaker 1: the relative absence of mainstream media culture on the platform.

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Speaker 1: And there's just so much more that I'll get into here.

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Speaker 1: But before I pontificate any further, let me just acknowledge

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Speaker 1: this much. I totally get it. If your reaction to

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Speaker 1: what little I've said so far is okay, boomer, thanks

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Speaker 1: but no thanks, not interested in insights from the last

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Speaker 1: oldest TikTok adopter on Earth? Why don't you come back

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Speaker 1: next week? Some hot takes on what MySpace or for

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Speaker 1: inster was like too, And I get it. That's a

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Speaker 1: totally valid reaction, though I should point out first I'm

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Speaker 1: not a boomer. I'm Generation X old, but not that old.

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Speaker 1: If you want to just bail right now before I

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Speaker 1: unpack this any further, I could accept that you won't

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Speaker 1: hurt my feelings. I'm sure there's a fresh four our

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Speaker 1: Joe Rogan interview that's a better use of your time.

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Speaker 1: But for those of you who have stuck around first,

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Speaker 1: thanks for giving me a chance. I should also clarify

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Speaker 1: it's not like I suddenly discovered TikTok in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five after crawling out from under whatever rock I was

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Speaker 1: living under. I've had the app on my phone for

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Speaker 1: several years for the occasion when someone mentioned something I

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Speaker 1: wanted to see on TikTok, I'd use the app to

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Speaker 1: check it out, always wondering, considering its vaunted algorithm, whether

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Speaker 1: it was akin to taking a hit from a crack pipe.

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Speaker 1: But I would dip in, dip out, figuring I was

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Speaker 1: old enough to be impervious to its charms until this year.

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Speaker 1: What drew me to TikTok long enough to get sufficiently

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Speaker 1: seduced this time around came late last year, when the

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Speaker 1: political drama around the app's existence was at its high point.

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Speaker 1: I was curious to get a first hand sense of

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Speaker 1: how the crisis was being felt by the TikTok Faithful

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Speaker 1: and truth be told. While I was struck by the

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Speaker 1: creativity and passion of many on the platform. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: impressed anymore by what I was seeing on TikTok than

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Speaker 1: I was on any other social platform. You have to

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Speaker 1: understand I've been following digital native content trends for nearly

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Speaker 1: two decades, dating back to the earliest days of YouTube

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Speaker 1: and the earliest flowerings of the creator economy, back before

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Speaker 1: it was called the creator economy, before they were even

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Speaker 1: called influencers. And I followed these trends as the momentum

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Speaker 1: move from one platform to another, whether it was Vine

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Speaker 1: or Switch or Snapchat, each had their own quirks and idiosyncrasies.

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Speaker 1: But through it all, I always prided myself on keeping

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Speaker 1: a kind of anthropological detachment from it all. I admired

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Speaker 1: from a distance, but never really got drawn in personally.

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Speaker 1: But now, in twenty twenty five, the truth is the

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Speaker 1: programming experience of TikTok has been so thoroughly co opted

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Speaker 1: by rival copycat products like Instagram reels and YouTube shorts

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Speaker 1: that when I talk about TikTok, I'm not really talking

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Speaker 1: about TikTok per se. It's format that algorithmically targeted torrent

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Speaker 1: of short form videos curated by my thumb swiping with

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Speaker 1: such reptilian efficiency, it almost feels like my hand is

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Speaker 1: operating independently from my brain. I call it the clip

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Speaker 1: scroll format. TikTok created it, but apparently couldn't patent it.

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Speaker 1: That said, TikTok's algorithmic magic may be more powerful than

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Speaker 1: the other platforms, at the very least deserves credit for

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Speaker 1: pioneering the format that's become so addictive. Addiction. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a word I must admit I shouldn't be using loosely

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Speaker 1: when it comes to TikTok or any social apps. There

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Speaker 1: are serious concerns about the power they have, particularly with

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Speaker 1: its youngest users. Not to mention the serious concerns about

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Speaker 1: the potential espionage risk that TikTok app presents, I'd be

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Speaker 1: remissing not referencing these dangers. And yet I must admit

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Speaker 1: none of that stop me from falling head over heels

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Speaker 1: in love with TikTok. And here's what may be the

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Speaker 1: most tragic part of all. I see that the hours

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Speaker 1: I spend on TikTok now each day clearly come at

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Speaker 1: the expense of the time I used to spend watching TV.

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Speaker 1: I just don't watch. I just don't watch a half

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Speaker 1: hour or hour long shows at the volume that I

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Speaker 1: used to. When after enjoying the first season of Severance recently,

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Speaker 1: I found myself bored with season two. Even amid all

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Speaker 1: that hype, I wondered if my TV taste buds were

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Speaker 1: somehow permanently broken. Well, at least I'm still watching White Lotus,

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Speaker 1: though I think that's about the only TV show I've

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Speaker 1: been watching these days. But here's the thing. It's hard

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Speaker 1: not to give TikTok credit for stealing the wind from

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Speaker 1: TV sales, because when I reflect on TikTok's bounty, I

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Speaker 1: see the seeds of so much what I had previously

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Speaker 1: gotten from TV, super served by TikTok. Let me start

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Speaker 1: with a counter intuitive example. I've really gotten to enjoy

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Speaker 1: keeping up with what the biggest memes are on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: The one that I cannot seem to get out of

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Speaker 1: my head right now is people dancing to a rap

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Speaker 1: song called you Gotta cut It, cut It, cut It,

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Speaker 1: cut It, cut It, cut It, cut It, cut it,

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Speaker 1: cut it Now. Maybe hip hop isn't your cup of tea,

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Speaker 1: but I promise, if you let this earworm in your brain,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna burrow so deep in there you'll never get

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Speaker 1: it out. But let me get back to my point.

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Speaker 1: How is something like memes, which are so particular to

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Speaker 1: the Internet and not television, end up displacing my TV habit? Well,

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Speaker 1: this is why I think. Part of what has made

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Speaker 1: memes so compelling to me is that in our increasingly

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Speaker 1: fragmented culture, where so many people are experiencing different and

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Speaker 1: content a far cry from decades ago when the TV

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Speaker 1: was the great unifying force that could bring together tens

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Speaker 1: of millions of people on any given night, These memes

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Speaker 1: and the way people play on them are as close

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Speaker 1: to unifying our culture in its own interactive way. They

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Speaker 1: make me feel connected to a larger culture and so

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Speaker 1: you got to cut it and just feels more important

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Speaker 1: to me right now than say, white lotus. Now, I

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Speaker 1: know what you're thinking, Andy, This kind of mean play

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Speaker 1: has been around on other platforms long before TikTok, So

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Speaker 1: what makes so special here? And to that, I say,

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Speaker 1: it's just different. On TikTok the level of creativity employed

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Speaker 1: and the memes feels higher. And for those who disagree

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Speaker 1: with that, okay, But here's where I think there's no

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Speaker 1: argument the TikTok ux is just a superior delivery mechanism

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Speaker 1: than any other social platform. Maybe it's the same old content,

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Speaker 1: but it's different now. And I'll tell you what else.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's something particular to my feed, certainly not something

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Speaker 1: I set out to cultivate. But the mainstream Hollywood galaxy

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Speaker 1: of stars has such a muted presence in my feed.

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Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. I follow the accounts on TikTok

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Speaker 1: of dozens of actors, performers, singers, whatever, and I know

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Speaker 1: that sounds like a knock against mainstream Hollywood entertainment culture,

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Speaker 1: but it's not meant to be. There's plenty I like

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Speaker 1: about the culture that I get everywhere else, But on

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Speaker 1: TikTok it feels like the algorithm just intuitive that I

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Speaker 1: would prefer to turn the dimmer down on the celebrity

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Speaker 1: industrial complex. They don't loom nearly as large on TikTok,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't have the top down entertainer elite separated by

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Speaker 1: the unwashed mass audiences. It's a more democratic medium where

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Speaker 1: the distinction between the entertainer and the audience doesn't really exist.

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Speaker 1: It's such a refreshing differentiating thing that makes the app

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Speaker 1: just a fascinating world to inhabit, and into the vacuum

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Speaker 1: of all the oxygen that the celebrity industrial complex typically

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Speaker 1: sucks up steps in this explosion of homegrown talent on

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Speaker 1: the platform. Now, I wouldn't blame you if you started

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Speaker 1: to get an ick feeling right about now thinking about

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Speaker 1: the brand name creators out there, from mister Beast to

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Speaker 1: the Paul Brothers. I'm just not a huge fan of

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Speaker 1: these types, because there's something off putting to me about

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Speaker 1: how sweaty that class of entertainers comes off, constantly shilling

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Speaker 1: for themselves with they're desperate hit the subscribe button pitches

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Speaker 1: and shilling for whatever brand is paying them. But that's

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Speaker 1: not who populate my TikTok feed. Those who do are

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Speaker 1: mostly thousands of not famous at least yet, people who

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Speaker 1: may not be household names, but they've got talent. Watching

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Speaker 1: TikTok makes you feel like what many of us already

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Speaker 1: suspect about Hollywood. It's not as if their most successful

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Speaker 1: performers possess some kind of rare talent that separates them

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Speaker 1: from the masses, like the way you say your average

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Speaker 1: pro athlete is world's better than ninety nine percent of

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Speaker 1: the rest of the population. Now, TikTok gives the lie

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Speaker 1: to that notion by exposing that there's many many people

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Speaker 1: out there with comparable levels of talent to the lucky

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Speaker 1: group that makes it through the Hollywood machine and onto

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Speaker 1: our screens. And these many, many people just needed a

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Speaker 1: discovery mechanism powerful enough to elevate them. And that's where

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Speaker 1: TikTok comes in. If you had to pin me down

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Speaker 1: to defining in one word, what gives TikTok gets a llure,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to use a very scientific term, the vibe. Okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll need a few more words to capture what

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Speaker 1: that vibe is. It's like everyone on TikTok is in

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Speaker 1: a dance circle, taking turns, making each other laugh at

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Speaker 1: the center with the silly jig. It's like you're inviting

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Speaker 1: let me try something else. It's like you're invited to

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Speaker 1: this gigantic potluck dinner where many people have taken it

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Speaker 1: upon themselves to generously share the content they've cooked up,

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Speaker 1: and you have this endless buffet that just gets shotgunned

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Speaker 1: into your mouth in perfect little snackable bites. I myself

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Speaker 1: don't contribute content, preferring to stay what they call, in

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Speaker 1: Internet parlance, a lurker. But that's not unusual. A Pew

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Speaker 1: Research Center study last year found that just twenty five

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Speaker 1: percent of the most active people on the platform produced

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Speaker 1: ninety eight percent of its content. Let me try to

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Speaker 1: capture what I love about TikTok using a TV metaphor

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Speaker 1: of sorts. Imagine if Saturday Night Live was a medium

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Speaker 1: onto itself. Instead of about twenty performers Lauren Michael's pluck

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Speaker 1: from obscurity, there's about one thousand more cast members just

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Speaker 1: cranking out comedic vignettes on their own instead of relying

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Speaker 1: on Lauren's taste and sketches, which frankly is a mixed

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Speaker 1: track record. That's a subject for another podcast. You could

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Speaker 1: just curate your own group from a vast sea of

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Speaker 1: talent that you didn't know existed. And like SNL, some

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Speaker 1: of the comedy comes from some pretty classic categories, like

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Speaker 1: celebrity impressionists. But on an average episode of SNL, you're

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Speaker 1: lucky if you'll see more than two impressionisms at work.

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Speaker 1: On TikTok, you could sift through two hundred of them

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Speaker 1: in a minute, and the quality differential from what you

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Speaker 1: see on SNL. It's not that slim.

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Speaker 3: Look.

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Speaker 1: I love James Austin Johnson's Trump impression on SNL. He's

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Speaker 1: a genius. But you know what, someone who calls herself

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Speaker 1: d doo dah on TikTok, she's not bad herself. If

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Speaker 1: you wanted to find a random what looks to be

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Speaker 1: high school student with just three thousand followers whose Trump

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Speaker 1: impression in her own words is quote if he was

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Speaker 1: a baby or had inhaled helium, well here for yourself,

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Speaker 1: baby Trump.

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Speaker 3: On the way to the airport. I like my suitcase, frankly,

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Speaker 3: but I've seen like very big ones in China, frankly,

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Speaker 3: and I'm thinking that I want my mommy to buy

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Speaker 3: me a bigger ones. I'm not very statisfied.

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Speaker 1: What can I say? The sight of a girl who

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Speaker 1: can't be a day over sixteen doing a Trump impression

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Speaker 1: kills me every time. Now, the thing to keep in

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Speaker 1: mind here is d doo dah isn't some rare hidden

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Speaker 1: gem on TikTok. More like a dime a dozen. You see,

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Speaker 1: TikTok is like a metal detector for sucking all the

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Speaker 1: needles from the haystack. The algorithm sees what you like

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Speaker 1: and seamlessly hits you with like ten more of the

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Speaker 1: same thing. And I understand these people that I'm finding

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Speaker 1: on TikTok. They're not new or exclusive to the platform.

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Speaker 1: They may even have bigger followings on other platforms where

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Speaker 1: they got their start before moving to TikTok. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: I've seen their videos years ago, but the point is

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Speaker 1: that TikTok is the platform that made this experience sticky.

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Speaker 1: I've been on Instagram YouTube for many years and have

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Speaker 1: never felt anything like the rabbit hole drop that TikTok

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Speaker 1: delivers every time out. And there's a lot of different

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Speaker 1: types of comedy to choose from. I've gotten into this

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Speaker 1: whole cottage industry of teachers who like to imitate their

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Speaker 1: young students. And I'm a dad, so there's like five

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Speaker 1: hundred men out there contributing dad jokes into my feed

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Speaker 1: in an endless supply. And as a married man, I

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Speaker 1: also enjoy the entire genre of couple's humor, where real

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Speaker 1: life husband and wives who fancy themselves comedy duos dissect

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Speaker 1: relationship pitfalls pretty endlessly. I think my favorite is a

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Speaker 1: well known TikTok pairing Alex and John, who have millions

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Speaker 1: of followers.

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Speaker 3: John, are you serious? What can you not pick this up?

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Speaker 2: They're not in the way.

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Speaker 3: It's lazy, John. We both live here, Okay, it's a mess.

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Speaker 3: Pile of your clothes, Well that's different. They're on a chair,

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Speaker 3: so they're elevated out of the way.

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Speaker 2: It's a pile of shit, just like mine.

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Speaker 3: It is not a It is an organized mess, and

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Speaker 3: I know where everything is.

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Speaker 2: I just can't admit that we're the same. And it

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Speaker 2: just kills you to know that we both have a

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Speaker 2: pile of shit. But for some reason you think your

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Speaker 2: pile of shit is better than mine.

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Speaker 3: But it's not fine. I won't talk about your pile

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Speaker 3: of shit if you don't talk about mine.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, you watch these two long enough and you'll understand

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Speaker 1: why comparisons to TV classics like I Love Lucy and

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Speaker 1: The Honeymooners aren't so far fetched. Whether the comedy is

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Speaker 1: thirty minutes or in the case of Alex and John,

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Speaker 1: sometimes like thirty seconds, the connection is pretty clear. And

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Speaker 1: to bring this back to what I was saying about

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Speaker 1: TikTok as a TV substitute, this is a perfect example

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Speaker 1: Alex and John feel to me like the kind of

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Speaker 1: couple centric sitcoms I used to watch all the time

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Speaker 1: but just don't see on TV anymore. I mean, forget

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Speaker 1: about couple sitcoms. I don't find myself watching sitcoms at all. Really,

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Speaker 1: And have you seen a comedy in a movie theater lately?

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Speaker 1: Come to think of it, I think you could draw

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Speaker 1: an even broader conclusion that the vast array of comedy

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Speaker 1: you can overdose on TikTok comes at the expense of

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Speaker 1: the rest of media. I just don't think it's a

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Speaker 1: coincidence that comedy could not seem more dead in film

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Speaker 1: and TV right now, while on TikTok it's alive and well.

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Speaker 1: Now I realize I've been painting a picture in this

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Speaker 1: podcast of TikTok standing apart from the rest of culture.

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Speaker 1: But after the break I'll get into why that's not

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Speaker 1: an accurate picture entirely. We are back with my endless

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Speaker 1: jeremiad about the state of television and the triumph that

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Speaker 1: I think TikTok has had its expense. And look, it's

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Speaker 1: not that pop culture as we know it is absent

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Speaker 1: from TikTok. Now TikTok is very much in dialogue with culture,

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Speaker 1: but instead of just being like another TV channel or

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Speaker 1: movie theater or streaming service or the performer and programs

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Speaker 1: djor distribute their content, TikTokers meet these brands on their

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Speaker 1: own terms, and those terms are typically through the filter

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Speaker 1: of fan worship or ridicule. Like any other social platform,

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Speaker 1: it's where the water cooler conversation happens, even though the

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Speaker 1: content that spurs the conversation isn't available on the platform.

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Speaker 1: For instance, if there's one TV show I've Stuck with

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Speaker 1: its White Lotus, but no episode is complete without watching

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Speaker 1: all the satirical reactions each episode prompts, the most famous

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Speaker 1: of which is mining maximum yucks out of every heavily

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Speaker 1: accent accented utterance from Parker Posey's mouth. But it's not

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Speaker 1: just about sharing the post, it's each user putting their

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Speaker 1: own unique spin on it, like this one set to

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Speaker 1: auto tune.

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Speaker 2: Like I love tsunami, no hyper no bis no, And

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Speaker 2: then you know, we just played on that, so it

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Speaker 2: just started to grow and grow.

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Speaker 1: To take it a step further, I'll take you back

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Speaker 1: to a recent episode of this podcast in which I

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Speaker 1: interviewed the head of research at Warner Brothers Discovery, who

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Speaker 1: shared research suggesting that while social video consumption is drawing

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Speaker 1: away eyeballs from studio content, it's also very much a

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Speaker 1: valuable promotional driver to that content off platform, like back

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Speaker 1: on a Netflix or at your local cineplex or what

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Speaker 1: have you. These are fan accounts I follow that spit

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Speaker 1: out nothing but clips of TV shows I enjoyed ages

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Speaker 1: ago but had no plans to revisit. Like community and

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Speaker 1: entourage that make me reappreciate enough to increase the likelihood

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Speaker 1: of me revisiting an episode. But I think TikTok serves

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Speaker 1: an additional function as something of a highlight reel for

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Speaker 1: content I'm just not going to follow back to the

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Speaker 1: TV because the excerpted clips from that programming is how

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Speaker 1: I want to consume it. With all due respect to

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Speaker 1: the great late night comedians like Colbert and Kimmel and

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Speaker 1: John Stewart, on and on, I'm not going to sit

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Speaker 1: down for a long form linear TV experience. I want

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Speaker 1: the best moments from those shows sliced and diced in

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Speaker 1: my feed, or I'm just not going to watch it

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Speaker 1: at all. Sorry. And the same goes for news content.

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Speaker 1: Whether it's coming from twenty four hour news networks or newspapers,

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Speaker 1: all of them have TikTok accounts. But I will say that,

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Speaker 1: unlike with comedy, where I find myself enjoying lots of

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Speaker 1: new personalities and in addition to a highlight reel of

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Speaker 1: establishment figures, with news, I find myself sticking to the

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Speaker 1: tried and true brands. I know there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: amateur commentators and analysts doing their thing on TikTok, but

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Speaker 1: it just doesn't do it for me, and I don't

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Speaker 1: want to forget to acknowledge that TikTok has been home

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Speaker 1: to lots of different experimentation and narrative driven storytelling but

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Speaker 1: in short form formats. But like news, nothing really is

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Speaker 1: stuck with me yet, though I have a feeling maybe

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Speaker 1: that's just a matter of time. Take the Chinese microdrama Fomenon,

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Speaker 1: for instance. They maintain a healthy presence on TikTok, though

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Speaker 1: that's really just a promotional platform for driving consumers off

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Speaker 1: platform to apps of their own, like Real Short and

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Speaker 1: Drama Box. Look. I find most of this content unwatchable.

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Speaker 1: It's just not my cup of tea. But when you

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Speaker 1: see this ferment of creativity. You have to wonder whether,

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Speaker 1: as unthinkable as it sounds, there's an inevitability to TikTokers

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Speaker 1: cracking the code on the kind of content it will

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Speaker 1: feel more directly competitive with traditional dramas. Maybe the closest

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Speaker 1: thing to that is a whole genre of what I'd

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Speaker 1: call confessional videos, where real people of all kinds candidly

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Speaker 1: share from the struggles in their lives on TikTok, and

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Speaker 1: they interact with the fan bases they build there. It's

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Speaker 1: pure monologues, but they have that voyeuristic frison you get

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Speaker 1: from watching good reality TV. There's so much more I

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Speaker 1: get out of TikTok. We'd be here all day if

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Speaker 1: I drilled too deep into any one of the many

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Speaker 1: categories of content that float my boat. Like I'm an

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Speaker 1: avid road biker, so I watch videos of bikers in action.

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Speaker 1: Been playing a lot of basketball lately, So I watch

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Speaker 1: instructors break down all sorts of shooting mechanics used to

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Speaker 1: DJ but back in my younger days, And so I

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Speaker 1: have endless appetite for watching amateur spinners honkered over their MPCs,

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Speaker 1: pounding out homemade beats. But this infinite variety also works

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Speaker 1: against TikTok. I believe you see. The algorithm is like

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Speaker 1: this machine gun with incredible aim, mowing down every interest

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Speaker 1: I have. But here's the thing. Sometimes I'm in the

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Speaker 1: mood for biking videos. Sometimes I want to listen to

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Speaker 1: the DJs. Sometimes I want memes. But TikTok doesn't hand

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Speaker 1: me a menu of my favorite subjects and ask me

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Speaker 1: which one I like. As powerful as its algorithm is,

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Speaker 1: it insists on pushing everything I like to me indiscriminately

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Speaker 1: in one feed. As amazing as TikTok has been its

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Speaker 1: sucking the wind out of TV, it falls short for

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Speaker 1: me by not taking TV's more channel centric approach. It's

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Speaker 1: made me visualized. TikTok is like one big, unprecedentedly powerful pipe.

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Speaker 1: At one end of the pipe, it draws from a

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Speaker 1: veritable ocean of content choices, somehow hoovering out of that

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Speaker 1: ocean just the things I like with astonishing speed and accuracy.

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Speaker 1: But what's not remarked upon as much is the other

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Speaker 1: end of the pipe is just this hydrant blast when

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Speaker 1: what I'd rather have as a ux that knowing what

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00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: I'd like separates each droplet, so to speak, into separate categories. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I could go into TikTok account settings and adjust the

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Speaker 1: topic bars, but those aren't my topic labels, And even

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Speaker 1: if they were, why not bring that topic orientation to

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Speaker 1: the front of the TikTok ux instead of hiding it away.

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Speaker 1: But in the scheme of the bounty TikTok brings, maybe

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Speaker 1: that's just a quibble. When I'm thumbing constantly, it reminds

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Speaker 1: me of something I don't do anymore on TV, channel flipping.

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Speaker 1: But what decades ago is treated as a nuisance. The

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Speaker 1: experience of channel flipping, I think, is going to be

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Speaker 1: a mode of viewing in its own right. When the

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Speaker 1: tiktokification of TV truly begins, the manic thumb swiping that is,

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Speaker 1: the modern day version of channel flipping or surfing, will

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Speaker 1: be something we'll actually happily spend time doing, perhaps as

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Speaker 1: much time as we spend on a long form show. See,

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Speaker 1: I'm starting to put my nostra damas hat on here.

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Speaker 1: I get it. I mean, call me a zealot for

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Speaker 1: my newfound religion. But this format TikTok and its copycats

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Speaker 1: are employing, this isn't just a format for a particular

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Speaker 1: kind of social app I'm convinced this is the evolution

428
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: of what the personal video experience will be, certainly much

429
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: more so than a TV's electronic programming guide or the

430
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 1: tile soup of choices you have to navigate on the

431
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: spot of your choice. I've come to the conclusion that

432
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: for better or for worse, this is where it's all

433
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: going where whether you're watching on your phone, and this

434
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: is where you want to question by sanity larger screens

435
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: like your living room TV. Yep. Maybe that's the most

436
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: surprising realization I've had as a TikTok user, that this

437
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: format it pioneered, that seems so inextricably tied to the

438
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: mobile device, seems to me not mobile specific at all.

439
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: I fully anticipate the TikTok format, right down to all

440
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: its wonderful esthetic particularity, will seep so thoroughly into TV

441
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: in the coming years that I won't even be surprised

442
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: if living room walls start to get adorned by screens

443
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: that will hang vertically instead of horizontal. The phone could

444
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: become a remote control for swiping, or maybe the remote

445
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: control as we know it will lose more than a

446
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: few buttons to make room for a thumb swipe, and

447
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: the PayTV and svod UX's will take their cue from

448
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: this too. As the line between short and long form

449
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: video increasingly blurs, perhaps the typical TV future will be

450
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: more like NTV moving from one music video sized program

451
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: to another than the current thirty or sixty or one

452
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty minute blocks of movie or TV show.

453
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: I'm not saying are going to go away, but they

454
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,719
Speaker 1: will seed significant ground to the short form videos in

455
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: viewing time. It would be pretty star contrast from today's

456
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: video platforms, which are entirely separated by the size of

457
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: the content, though YouTube is clearly leading the charge in

458
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: erasing that distinction. Though TikTok's bread and butter maybe short

459
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: form today, I wonder are we really that far away

460
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 1: where it will exceed that current ten minute cap it

461
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: has on video and start to home in on Netflix's territory.

462
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: Of course, that could also go vice versa, and we've

463
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: seen streaming services do some experimentation with short form content,

464
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: though nothing notable to date. But I think where this

465
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: is all going is that the short form content, it

466
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: won't just coexist with long form content on the same platforms,

467
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: but it will become a springboard into long form. This

468
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: takes me back to the Warner Brothers research I spoke

469
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: about earlier. I just think this is going to become

470
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: a big driver, but I think it'll get mechanized, so

471
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: to speak. Like you'll watch a clip of White Lotus

472
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: if you like it, it will have a button linking

473
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: you to a long form episode two, and I'd say

474
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: that would go for the rest of TV two. But

475
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: I think there will be a lot of TV program

476
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: brands that will actually minimize or cease to exist in

477
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: any long form container. The advertising market will catch up

478
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: to a point where, say Stephen Colbert's show will cease

479
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: to exist as an hour long show, existing instead is

480
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: a series of short form segments. I really believe this

481
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: is going to happen just as soon as the advertising

482
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: market catches up. Speaking of advertising, as we head towards

483
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: the upfront season in the TV industry, there is a

484
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: lot of talk about YouTube as the new TV, and

485
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: rightfully so. The notion that TV viewing has exceeded mobile

486
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: viewing in the US, as the company recently announced, that's

487
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: a staggering achievement. Truth be told, I cannot understand why

488
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: TikTok hasn't made a stronger bid for TV domination, like

489
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: team up with a TV manufacturer to make a linked

490
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: line of TikTok TVs. I wonder whether that's going to

491
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: end up a fatal flaw too late to correct. If

492
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: TikTok is not careful they're inviting one of their copycats

493
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: to seize that opportunity. As much as I've said so far,

494
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm really just scratching the surface of

495
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: how TikTok's clip scroll format will become the future. Hell,

496
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: I haven't even addressed the e current e commerce element

497
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: of TikTok, which end up which may end up the

498
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: most game changing contribution the act makes, given the early

499
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: success of TikTok Shop, breathless as I'm being look, I'm

500
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: mindful of the fact that I'm just six months into

501
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: my TikTok experience. Perhaps there's a honeymoon period and in

502
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: time I will tire of the clip scroll format, or

503
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: something better that's not even on the market yet will

504
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: come along and revolutionize the video delivery space all over again. Yeah,

505
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: I'm looking at you.

506
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: I guess.

507
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: Ultimately, the thing I can't get over is I underestimated

508
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: the power of TikTok. Honestly, my perception of the app

509
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: coming into this was antiquated. I realized in retrospect, colored

510
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: by what seems like the endless reign of the Damelio

511
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: sisters from like, I don't know, seven eight years ago,

512
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: they were the app's first stars. I just assumed that

513
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: was kind of the sensibility of TikTok going forward, like

514
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: it's just a bunch of clips of weird dances. But

515
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: you know, that's what made my immersion in this app

516
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,239
Speaker 1: all the more unlikely. And what was I doing on

517
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: this app at my age? I'm so preoccupied by that,

518
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: And so I researched TikTok demographic data just to see

519
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: how unusual that was. Research firm Data Reportal estimates that

520
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: four point three percent of TikTok users are men between

521
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: the ages of forty five and fifty four. So, no,

522
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: I guess I don't have a lot of company. Maybe

523
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: this is my version of a midlife crisis. I mean,

524
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: most middle aged men by a convertible or get an earring.

525
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: I use TikTok. I'm not sure what's more pathetic, But

526
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: now I choose to look at it differently. I rationalize

527
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: that I'm really more like an early adopter among the olds,

528
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: the first wave of a broader demographic shift that will

529
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: transform the demographic makeup of these clip scrolling apps, maybe

530
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: drive more product evolution that makes these platforms even more

531
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: welcoming to Generation X and even the boomers. For now, though,

532
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm just one old man who happens to have become

533
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: TikTok's newest fan.

534
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review

535
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 3: at Apple Podcasts or Amazon Music. We love to hear

536
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 3: from listeners. Please go to Variety dot com and sign

537
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: up for the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't

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Speaker 3: forget to tune in next week for another episode of

539
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Speaker 1: T