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Speaker 1: A Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions. Welcome back to it

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Speaker 2: could happen here, a podcast that basically all of last

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Speaker 2: week is about the twenty twenty four Republican National Convention,

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Speaker 2: a four day period of time that I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: ever ended or ever really had a beginning. As of

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Speaker 2: right now, we are stuck in the hotel because what

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Speaker 2: we initially thought was a hack and may just have

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Speaker 2: been a fuck up pushing an update by cloud strike,

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Speaker 2: but by any measure of the word is like the

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Speaker 2: greatest computer disaster of mine modern times has stranded every

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Speaker 2: Republican in the country in the city of Milwaukee.

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Speaker 3: With Yeah, we are trapped with every single Republican in Milwaukee,

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Speaker 3: Wisconsin as we wait for airports like a Stephen kingne

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Speaker 3: it's feeling quite dystopian. We've already been dealing with a

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Speaker 3: great deal of like time dilation. Just this past week,

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Speaker 3: this week has felt it first just felt like a month,

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Speaker 3: and then it just felt like an eternity. Yeah, like

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Speaker 3: we were just always reporting on the RNZ. This is

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Speaker 3: this is all we have ever done.

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Speaker 2: Every single day of this was longer than my childhood.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I feel like all I've ever done is

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Speaker 3: a person is be someone who reports in the RNC.

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Speaker 3: This is just the entirety of my existence and life purpose.

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Speaker 2: It's like that Star Trek episode where they have like

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Speaker 2: the fake casino because they found these aliens found a

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Speaker 2: stranded astronaut and to try to make him comfortable, like

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Speaker 2: recreated a dime store novel, and all of these fake

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Speaker 2: people have only ever lived in the casino, experiencing the

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Speaker 2: same day forever. That's us, that's us at the rn sight.

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Speaker 3: I was only created to report on the RNC.

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Speaker 2: Did I have a before? Did I have an after?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not. Yeah. Anyway, so we're doing well, is the

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Speaker 2: short of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're mentally healthy and well and well suited to

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Speaker 3: handle this political task.

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Speaker 2: I guess the big story, the one that's really worth

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Speaker 2: us talking about right now, is that last night you

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Speaker 2: and I went to see the Trump speech spectacular. Now,

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Speaker 2: every day of the convention, during the early part of

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Speaker 2: the day, you'll have some speeches, and you'll have even

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Speaker 2: some outside of the event. Different groups and organizations will

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Speaker 2: rent out hotel, ballrooms, conference rooms, they'll give speeches, they'll

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Speaker 2: do panels, there's workshops, and obviously inside the wire, so

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Speaker 2: to speak, you have different dignitaries, politicians, you know, Ted

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Speaker 2: Kruz will come by and I'll sit down to be

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Speaker 2: interviewed by a podcaster, a radio host. Rudy Giuliani's doing

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Speaker 2: the same thing. You've got all these people who do

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Speaker 2: their shows live from the event and then in the

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Speaker 2: evenings usually starting around like five to seven and something

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Speaker 2: like that. Yeah, you start having speeches, and part of

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Speaker 2: what you know, speeches at the RNC are it's obviously

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Speaker 2: it's a way to hype up the base. This is

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Speaker 2: the base. And one of the things I try to

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Speaker 2: get across to people I posted on day one while

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Speaker 2: there were some very dystopian shit coming out Marjorie Taylor

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Speaker 2: Green speech and whatnot, how empty you know the stadium

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Speaker 2: was to be, like, look, there's not that many people here,

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Speaker 2: And someone was like, well, it's kind of dishonest to

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Speaker 2: say that, because this is an invite on the event

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Speaker 2: that you need credentials for. And well, that's my point though,

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Speaker 2: is like as crazy as a lot of this stuff is,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to get into a lot of the crazy,

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Speaker 2: you don't also you don't want to discount it because

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Speaker 2: these people are very powerful and they can do a

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Speaker 2: lot of damage, and they there's a very good chance

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Speaker 2: they're going to wind up with very close to total power.

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Speaker 2: But they're also not representative of like a massive chunk

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Speaker 2: of this country. Like these are the weirdest of the weird.

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Speaker 2: These are the high freaks of Republican party politics. These

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Speaker 2: are the nabobs and priests and shamans of their political class.

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Speaker 2: And so you shouldn't over extend the craziness to think that, like, well,

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Speaker 2: every one of my neighbors who is a conservative is

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Speaker 2: this kind of person. Now, some of you do have

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Speaker 2: neighbors who are this kind of person.

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Speaker 3: So, and Trump's speech was certainly much more well attended

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Speaker 3: than any other.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and it was it was also a very different

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Speaker 2: vibe because all of those other nights, all of the speeches.

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Speaker 2: You know, a big part of what this is for

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Speaker 2: the people who get speeches is like, we want to

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Speaker 2: give you a reward for being a good party soldier,

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Speaker 2: but no one wants to promise you a cabinet position

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Speaker 2: right now. You know, we can't get like, so we'll

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Speaker 2: give you a speech at the RNC. You can lead,

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Speaker 2: and you can get on right before Tucker, you know,

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Speaker 2: or you can come on right after Tucker or whatever

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Speaker 2: like that, you know, And it's kind of how you

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Speaker 2: it's one way to dole out favors, right, because it's

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Speaker 2: good for people's you know, if you're head up an organization,

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Speaker 2: it might get you some fundraising at any rate. It

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Speaker 2: makes you look more connected at something you brag about

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Speaker 2: to your friends. You get to go backstage and be

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Speaker 2: around the VIPs and whatnot, be a VIP yourself.

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Speaker 3: And that certainly the case for someone like the VEC, right,

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Speaker 3: someone who doesn't hold like that office, never has, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but he's trying to position himself as being, you know,

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Speaker 3: an active part of this political project act.

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Speaker 2: Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's killer who gave a speech. That's

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Speaker 2: not a guy who's you know, an elected leader, but

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Speaker 2: it's he's a guy you won on your side, so

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Speaker 2: let's give let's give him a nice position. We'll put

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Speaker 2: him right after whol Cogan.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Which I guess is you know that that kind of

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Speaker 2: gets it why Thursday was so different from the other

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Speaker 2: nights because while the other Knights felt like a political convention,

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Speaker 2: because the Dims do the same thing, right like that

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Speaker 2: their speeches occupy roughly the same role in their party.

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Speaker 2: Last night felt like a concert. Last night was the

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Speaker 2: vibes of like a show. You are going to get

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Speaker 2: hyped up and see a show. People were static. There

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Speaker 2: was actually music acts like, not just the band that

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Speaker 2: plays in between speeches, but Kid Rock came out and

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Speaker 2: did a set.

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Speaker 3: It was all a big put on before Ormans, Yes

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Speaker 3: it was. It was in many cases well put on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was very competently stage managed. There's no

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Speaker 2: no denying that. We can talk about the content of

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Speaker 2: the speech, and I've seen a lot of it, you know,

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Speaker 2: same Sater who you know. I like, I'm not trying

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Speaker 2: to shit, I'm not gonna shit on Sam or anything.

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Speaker 2: But I saw his take being like I felt like

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Speaker 2: this was kind of this seems like it's a weak speech.

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Speaker 2: It's not very coherent. You know, people in the audience

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Speaker 2: looked sleepy. That was not the vibe during Trump speech.

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Speaker 3: I see where he's coming from, because this was one

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Speaker 3: of the quieter Trump's speeches.

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Speaker 2: Trump is quieter, sure.

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Speaker 3: I think this this this was an intentional effort to

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Speaker 3: blend some of his more classic talking points with this

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Speaker 3: elder statesman kind of vibe and selectively utilizing the assassination

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Speaker 3: attempt to talk about both yourself as this like broader

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Speaker 3: political figure that that people should unite behind, because this

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Speaker 3: incident really shows how divided we are, and what we

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Speaker 3: really need to do to unite the country is stop

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Speaker 3: attacking Trump, and that's the only way to do it.

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Speaker 3: So like this, this was all on purpose and kind

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Speaker 3: of using that more sympathetic unity messaging to squeeze in

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Speaker 3: all of his same extremely far right talking points, just

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Speaker 3: slipping in between calls for like unity and ending division

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Speaker 3: and all of that.

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Speaker 2: And also the fucking the boys are playing in women's

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Speaker 2: sports and.

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Speaker 3: The cannibal elector the late Gray.

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Speaker 2: He had a Hannibal But we should we're getting ahead

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Speaker 2: of ourselves. But I do want to just kind of

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Speaker 2: say upfront. My take differs from what I've seen from

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Speaker 2: Sam Cedar and what I've seen from a number of

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Speaker 2: folks who watched, you know, the closed circuit version of this.

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Speaker 2: The audience loved it. Yeah, like they loved it, and

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Speaker 2: you can you can taste in the air the degree

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Speaker 2: to which they love Trump. This is like not if

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Speaker 2: you have not been to one of these rallies. And

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Speaker 2: even this is different because I've been to a you know,

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Speaker 2: a regular Trump rally. This was different than that because

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Speaker 2: this is again like the most dedicated chunk of the base.

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Speaker 2: It's the very much a religious experience for these people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it definitely had that spiritual vibe. So the

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Speaker 3: first speaker, we wanted to really get to in person

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Speaker 3: to hear talk with Tucker, and Tucker, you have a

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Speaker 3: very efficient speech. He did not read off a teleprompter.

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Speaker 3: He was at living the best speech at the convention.

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Speaker 3: He was he was, he was. He was a pretty

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Speaker 3: good speaker. And I know we often will make fun

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Speaker 3: of kind of Tucker's mode of speaking on television, which

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Speaker 3: can come off as a little bit like disjointed and

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Speaker 3: kind of just like confused. You know, he has that

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Speaker 3: like resting confused look on his face. He was a

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Speaker 3: very good live performer. Yeah, this he gave a stronger

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Speaker 3: live performance than I think what a lot of his

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Speaker 3: televised performances come off at. He was.

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Speaker 2: He gave an eerdit and smooth summary of fascist ideology

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Speaker 2: of specifically what used to be called the Futor prinzip

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Speaker 2: or Fewer principle, which is this idea that came out

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Speaker 2: of the Nazi movement of a nation being embodied by

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Speaker 2: a man, and the man is accountable to the people,

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Speaker 2: not in a sense that we would consider like checks

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Speaker 2: and ballot and says, but in some deep spiritual connection

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Speaker 2: that they have. And Tucker very directly like like hearkened

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Speaker 2: to that. He made a comment about like you know,

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Speaker 2: Trump talked to me and he was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: when I got shot, I expected to see the crowd running, screaming, stampeding, panicking,

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Speaker 2: and no one did. And Tucker was like, that's because

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Speaker 2: you're the leader, and the leader the people follow the leader,

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Speaker 2: and they you know, you didn't panic, so they won't panic. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's the most direct old style. This is nineteen twenties

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Speaker 2: Nazism stuff that Tucker is throwing out. And he he

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Speaker 2: discussed it in a way that was very smooth and

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Speaker 2: very palatable to American ears. And that was the most

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Speaker 2: chilling part of the night for me, because Trump's speech

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Speaker 2: was not a particularly I think back to twenty sixteen

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Speaker 2: and I was I was at the R and C

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Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen. Trump's speech on the last night of

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Speaker 2: the R and C was his blood in the Street speech.

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Speaker 2: It was a he was angry, it was aggressive. It

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Speaker 2: was a violent speech, right, and there were there were moments,

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Speaker 2: certainly silence in his speech, but not much that was

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Speaker 2: not the overall vibe. That was not what he built towards.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't the thing he ended on, and it was

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Speaker 2: never really a focus. But what Tucker was focusing on

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Speaker 2: was getting people on board the concept that they are

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Speaker 2: bonded to Trump in a spiritual sense and that the

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Speaker 2: nation is and that Trump is the leader, not by

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Speaker 2: dint of having been elected, but by dint of some

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Speaker 2: sort of psycha like psycho religious mystic bond.

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Speaker 3: Tucker was also the first guy I heard of the

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Speaker 3: convention to mention Antifa at all, first and only saying

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Speaker 3: Antifa is the Democrats owned militia, which is, you know

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Speaker 3: something that you would hear four years ago, and right

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Speaker 3: before Tucker's speech, I actually was talking with Robert being like, hey,

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Speaker 3: I've not heard anyone mention INTIFA this entire week, and

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Speaker 3: like this was used to be such a big thing

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Speaker 3: in their political messaging, both like four years ago, two

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Speaker 3: years ago, and this week, it was just completely absent. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: it has been replaced by some of this like gender ideology, groomer,

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Speaker 3: kind of transpanic type stuff, but it is a noticeable

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Speaker 3: absence in the current talking points of the Republican Party

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Speaker 3: save for this one mentioned by Tucker.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, during Trump's speech, I don't even

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Speaker 2: recall him bringing up the radical left. He didn't even

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Speaker 2: He made a couple of joke and these those on

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Speaker 2: the two of the jokes that that got the best

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Speaker 2: crowd response from him is he would bring up Biden,

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Speaker 2: but they say, I'm not going to mention his name.

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Speaker 2: I promise I won't talk about him, you know, And

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Speaker 2: that got a laugh every time that he did it,

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Speaker 2: which I counted twice. He did make one reference to

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Speaker 2: the shooter and said he tried to stop our movement. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: greatest movement in the history of the country. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was interesting to me. I think that he was

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Speaker 2: kind of playing easing off the gas on that one,

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Speaker 2: because there's still so much that's uncertain about the shooter

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Speaker 2: and his motives. I went to work out today because

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Speaker 2: the morning after convention, that's kind of how I purged

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Speaker 2: the hangover from my body. And I was watching Fox

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Speaker 2: News on the TV in the gym, And I don't

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Speaker 2: watch television news much because I'm a person who has

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Speaker 2: to do things, but it is useful sometimes because it

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Speaker 2: connects you with how an unfortunate number of people in

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Speaker 2: this country do and take their news. And this morning,

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Speaker 2: one of the reports was about the shooter and how

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Speaker 2: the FBI had found that he had three encrypted accounts

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Speaker 2: offshore overseas that they're trying to break into. They are

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Speaker 2: referring to I think discord kind of accounts and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that, like he might have like an.

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Speaker 3: We have like a WhatsApp, he might have WhatsApp inn account.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an encrypted email possibly. Yeah, the stuff that

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Speaker 2: like I have, most people have. But they were like,

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Speaker 2: so this makes it even more likely that Iran is involved.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's some sort of a rant because like

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Speaker 2: overseas that means Iran oh man, there's lots of companies

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Speaker 2: that have encrypted apps that aren't based in the we

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Speaker 2: I used to shill for a VPN that was based

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Speaker 2: I think Nord is based in Switzerland. Maybe I'm wrong

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Speaker 2: about that, but like some of the VPNs are based

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Speaker 2: in Switzerland and like these are not. It's not that

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Speaker 2: it's overseas. Does not mean there's any tie to anything

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Speaker 2: other than this kid, like a lot of people had,

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Speaker 2: was used in encrypted messaging platforms. Obviously, I'm interested, you know,

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Speaker 2: if the FBI, if or when they get into that stuff,

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Speaker 2: what they find. But I don't think they're going to

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Speaker 2: find that. The fucking Ayatola gave this guy a five

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars AR fifteen and fifty rounds of ammunition.

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Speaker 3: That is certainly doubtful. I mean, yeah, I think Tu

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Speaker 3: Tucker had some of the best audience reactions since Marjor

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Speaker 3: Taylor Green's speech. He called jd Vance a friend said

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Speaker 3: that Advance's politics, They're closer to the average Trump voter

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Speaker 3: than anyone else in Washington. And yeah, just an overall

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Speaker 3: very very polished speech.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we should probably do an ad break now, huh,

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Speaker 2: we should. We're back so after Tucker. We had a

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Speaker 2: couple of other people come on. There was a woman

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Speaker 2: who worked for an education a conservative education political activist group,

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Speaker 2: who her whole thing was, you know, I worked in

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Speaker 2: prisons for a while and then I switched over to

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Speaker 2: working in schools. And the thing that shocked me is

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Speaker 2: our schools are so much more of our schools are

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Speaker 2: like prisons, which I was like, well, actually, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot to be said about the way in with some

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Speaker 2: of the same technology, right, yes, no, this is there's

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Speaker 2: a lot to do. And then she was like, because

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Speaker 2: children are much more violent than convicted felons, and like, oh,

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Speaker 2: a lot of what she was saying is that, like,

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Speaker 2: schools are completely out of control. And obviously, in the

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Speaker 2: wake of the height of the COVID pandemic and the lockdown,

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Speaker 2: school violence did soar. It's been coming back down. Overall,

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Speaker 2: schools have been getting less violent in every single way

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Speaker 2: but shootings for twenty straight years. And that is that

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Speaker 2: is the case now, like under in Joe Biden's America, schools,

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Speaker 2: like violence that is not related to shootings is going down.

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Speaker 2: But what she was saying is that we need to

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Speaker 2: be able to expel and suspend kids, particularly, suspend kids

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Speaker 2: more often for bad behavior. There is actually quite a

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Speaker 2: bit of data that shows that when you suspend children,

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Speaker 2: it makes them more likely to offend and disrupt class

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Speaker 2: in the future, Like it increases the problems that you

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Speaker 2: are supposed to be stopping. Like most conservative measures that

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Speaker 2: are kind of like punitive in nature, it doesn't actually

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Speaker 2: do the trick. I don't know why I'm arguing with

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Speaker 2: this lady, but it is important that that's a big

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Speaker 2: part of how they're pitching what ultimately is a plan

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Speaker 2: to win the Department of Education to parents is like,

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Speaker 2: your schools are so dangerous for your kid, you need

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Speaker 2: to be able to have a voucher to send them

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Speaker 2: to a private school. And we need to be able

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Speaker 2: to kick these underperforming black students out of schools in

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Speaker 2: order to make them safer for everybody, right, and shuffle

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Speaker 2: them off into the car serial system.

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Speaker 3: Right. This whole speech was kind of a coded way

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Speaker 3: of talking about like urban crime. She blamed this problem

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Speaker 3: on an Obama Biden policy to limit suspension rates. Whe

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Speaker 3: Trump undid and yeah, said that the solution is both

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Speaker 3: more suspensions and more school resource officers, which a Kido

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Speaker 3: Institute says actually increases the number of Island instants in schools.

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Speaker 3: So but again, of course they're going to call for

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Speaker 3: more police. This is the Republican Party.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, I don't know why we even bother like fact checking.

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Speaker 2: This is important because I care, like in you care,

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Speaker 2: and but like our audience knows, the lady that gets

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Speaker 2: up to talk about school policy at the R and

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Speaker 2: C is not going to be bringing out good policy.

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Speaker 3: But this is just how everything works. Like this just

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Speaker 3: kind of underlines the alternate world that is formed in

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Speaker 3: places like this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can't you can't fight these people with facts.

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Speaker 2: That is the mistake liberals always make. It's like, well,

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Speaker 2: if we can just out argue them, if we can

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Speaker 2: get them, get them in front of the American people

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Speaker 2: and see how bankrupt their ideas are. And that's not

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Speaker 2: how you do it. Now. That's not to say that

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Speaker 2: you shouldn't get out and engage with them, because what

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Speaker 2: does work is showing the American people reminding them these

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Speaker 2: are freaks. These people are weird. These people are off putting,

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Speaker 2: These people are scary, and you don't want to be

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Speaker 2: around them, and by god, you don't want them with

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Speaker 2: their finger on the button, Like I do think that consistently.

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Speaker 3: Works, and unfortunately that freaks nature can sometimes help them,

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Speaker 3: like when you pull out hul cogd onto stage waving

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Speaker 3: an American flag, calling Trump his hero and his gladiator.

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Speaker 2: And talking about how, yeah, all of America are gonna

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Speaker 2: be the Trump bites, that's what they're gonna call him,

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Speaker 2: which apparently he used to do with nWo back in

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Speaker 2: the day, back in his glory day he got he

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Speaker 2: couldn't stop himself from talking about beating Andrea the Giant

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Speaker 2: at WrestleMania. I think it was like nineteen eighty three.

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Speaker 2: He made two different Andre the Giant references, both of

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Speaker 2: which were very mean. To Andre the Giant, who I wish,

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Speaker 2: Oh Andre, No, the wrong one died.

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Speaker 3: Al Cogan compared the energy of the RNC to a

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Speaker 3: WWE match, which he is not was not wrong, It's

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Speaker 3: very similar. Look, I'm not gonna like hull Cogan understands

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Speaker 3: this crowd, oh more than almost more than maybe any

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Speaker 3: other actual speaker. Yeah, like like Tucker kind of understands them,

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Speaker 3: but but hull Cogan even more so.

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Speaker 2: They loved him. Yeah when he ripped his shirt off.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Tank top underneath.

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Speaker 2: That was the best moment of the RNC. That was

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Speaker 2: the moment where I was like, all right, fuck it.

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Speaker 3: He said that he usually stays out of politics, but

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Speaker 3: after what happened on Saturday, he could no longer stay silent,

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Speaker 3: and then spend you know, the rest of the speech

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Speaker 3: just praising Trump, saying how tough he is, saying that

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Speaker 3: you know, he's survived all these court cases, these investigations, impeachments,

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Speaker 3: and we need a tough man to take on like politicians,

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Speaker 3: criminals and drug dealers. And no, it was It was

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Speaker 3: a in a week full of kind of surreal moments

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Speaker 3: where you're seeing these people that you only interact with

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Speaker 3: on a screen. H you just see them walk past you,

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Speaker 3: like all the time every day. This was certainly one

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Speaker 3: of the most surreal men.

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Speaker 2: And Cawthorne nearly hit me with his wheelchair. And I'm

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Speaker 2: not the only one I talked to with that story.

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Speaker 2: He's a little reckless, So I'm gonna be honest.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he thought you were a tree.

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Speaker 2: Maybe he thought it.

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Speaker 1: Was a tree.

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Speaker 2: I love that we saw two people, two Republicans at

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Speaker 2: this convention, both of whom have a tragic tree story.

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Speaker 2: So I'm talking about Greg Abbott.

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Speaker 3: They made the kind of baffling decision on the schedule

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Speaker 3: to put Franklin Graham after Hulk Hogan.

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Speaker 2: Not not nice to Franklin Graham, to be honest, No, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because he's he did the thing that like usually gets

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Speaker 2: a good reaction, which is the prayer. Right He's there

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Speaker 2: to do the prayer, and this is a good crowd

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Speaker 2: for a prayer, right, Like, that's not a that's not

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Speaker 2: like a lame thing to these people. They love doing that.

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Speaker 2: But no one's heart was fully into the prayer after Hulk, Like,

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Speaker 2: you can't, you can't get the people. It's a it's

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Speaker 2: a tough come down from Hulk Hogan ripped his shirt

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Speaker 2: off on stage too. Now let's bow our heads and

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Speaker 2: thank God.

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Speaker 3: But if you didn't grow up iny Minchelle Circles of

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Speaker 3: Franklin Graham is the son of Billy Graham, possibly the

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Speaker 3: most famous pastor in American history, at least in the

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Speaker 3: past one hundred.

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Speaker 2: Years, since sinners in the hands of an angry God,

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Speaker 2: like the most popular man of faith in the country.

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Speaker 3: And he closed his prayer by saying, all authority comes

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Speaker 3: from you, speaking of God, and we ask if it

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Speaker 3: be thy will that you will make America great once again.

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Speaker 3: Just a wonderful, a wonderful Christian message.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh grand So that was nice, and Eric Trump

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Speaker 2: gave a very Uh he tried his best, which is

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Speaker 2: basically what Trump said. Again, you Hulk Hogan has just

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Speaker 2: been on, Trump is about to be on. It is

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Speaker 2: the last night of the RNC, and everyone is absolutely

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Speaker 2: certain of victory. So as a speaker tonight, you couldn't

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Speaker 2: be more teed up for a good reaction. And he

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Speaker 2: could barely get laughs, he could barely get cheers. Like

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Speaker 2: even when he did the anti trans stuff, it didn't

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Speaker 2: get it got a muted reaction, not because people aren't bicketed,

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Speaker 2: because they loved it when Marjorie Taylor Green did the

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Speaker 2: say they loved it when Trump did. Eric Trump just

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Speaker 2: sucks yeah at speaking, probably at everything, but he did

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Speaker 2: not get a reaction. I cannot overemphasize to you how

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Speaker 2: little this crowd wanted to listen to Eric.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean he shout it out. Monster Liberty

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Speaker 3: said that the Trump admin will fight against brainwashing, and

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Speaker 3: schools will fight against homeless people, specifically taking resources from

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Speaker 3: veterans and of course trans people in sports.

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Speaker 2: He kept bringing up Ukraine to stealing resources from Americans.

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Speaker 2: He was like the most brought up Ukraine in a

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Speaker 2: derogatory sense, more than I think any other single speaker

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Speaker 2: at the convention, which is interesting because his dad took

434
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 2: even a bit of a different tact with that. So yeah,

435
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 2: I found that interesting. But I did not find his

436
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,360
Speaker 2: speech interesting because he is a bad speaker.

437
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 4: Now.

438
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 3: The only line I found interesting is when he was

439
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 3: talking about how all of Donald Trump's political enemies aren't

440
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 3: just happy going after him, but also going to be

441
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 3: going after every Republican. And he said the greatest retribution

442
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 3: will be our success. Yeah, and they've been using network

443
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,719
Speaker 3: a lot this year, retribution retribution.

444
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 2: And you know, he did kind of in the end,

445
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 2: getted a little bit of applause. That's it was like

446
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: the fifth or sixth best standing ovation of the night.

447
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 2: So again, at his best, was never able to really rile.

448
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 3: Them up, especially when he's talking about assassination attempt. I mean, yeah,

449
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 3: the crowd chounting fight.

450
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what got them back on board and interesting.

451
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 2: They loved talk about that, I think in part because

452
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 2: it had been so absent earlier.

453
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was talking about way more today than basically

454
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 3: all the other days of the week combined.

455
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and that makes sense. I mean, it was

456
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 2: the day that Trump came out to speak, you know, and.

457
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: You know what we're going to talk about now or

458
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 3: not talk.

459
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 2: About assassinating your thirst with hopefully a soda company advertising

460
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 2: on the podcast. Otherwise this ad segue is not going

461
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 2: to make much sense.

462
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 3: All right. Time for Donald Trump himself, he's coming out.

463
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 3: They they they set this stage, they got.

464
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,719
Speaker 2: Everything to be an American.

465
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 3: And then they announced Kid.

466
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 2: Rock, Oh my god, and he comes out and the

467
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 2: whole stage is wreathed in massive screens, like dozens of

468
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: feet tall, and they all are portraying fire and American.

469
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 3: Flag, American flags that look kind of like they're on

470
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 3: fire burning.

471
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: Kid Rock comes out and does a rap set to

472
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 2: burning American flags surrounding him.

473
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 3: Just it was kind of just a fascinating image for

474
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 3: the RNC.

475
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 2: The refrain is they call me Cowboy. He said that

476
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: like forty times, and he just kept going Trump, Trump, Trump, Fight, Fight, Fight, And.

477
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 3: They loved it. They loved it. Was It was very

478
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 3: high energy. It was it was a concert. Everyone everyone,

479
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 3: everyone had a great time.

480
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it got a good reaction. People were hyped up.

481
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: It is the loudest, stupidest thing I have ever seen

482
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: in my life, but it got a really good reaction.

483
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 2: People loved kid Rock coming out. It's interesting to me

484
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 2: that they chose to have kid Rock basically lead directly

485
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: to the president rather than than the Hulkster. But I

486
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: don't know. If I were if I had been setting

487
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: this up, I would have done Franklin Graham, school Lady,

488
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: Eric Trump, all the weak ones up first, and then

489
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 2: probably Tucker the Hulkster, Kid Rock, you know.

490
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, the NSC should really hire you to man their schedule.

491
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm available, guys.

492
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 3: So after we all kid rocked out, technically, Dana White

493
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 3: gave the introduction or Dana White.

494
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, they bring in Dana White, who has who is

495
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: the UFC CEO. Yeah, who is also on video hitting

496
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: his wife in the face. This is not a debatable,

497
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 2: he said. She said, he is on video. You can

498
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: watch it.

499
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And he gave a very very very typical strength

500
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: and security speech to introduced Trump, who emerged from behind

501
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 3: one of the big the big screens.

502
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 2: Well, proud to be an American plays and like the

503
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 2: entire crowd stands up and they're all singing along to

504
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: Proud to Be an American. They love that song.

505
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 3: He'd started his speech, and one of the interesting things

506
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 3: is that he said that he's going to tell the

507
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: story of what happened at the assassination attempt here right now,

508
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 3: but won't tell it ever again because it's too painful

509
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: to tell.

510
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be interested to see how often he does,

511
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 2: because it is like just based on his body language,

512
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 2: because he's been out every night but not saying anything,

513
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 2: and he does has looked a bit different, and I'm

514
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 2: not going to do the whole thing. Some of the

515
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: fucking you had some like Politico being like, it's a

516
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: new Trump, He's become a statesman. They definitely that's what

517
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: the RNC is trying to sell you on. That's nonsense.

518
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: But he has changed in the way that like you

519
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: would be if you were shot in the head and survived,

520
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: you know, like anyone is go like, he's not a robot, right,

521
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 2: Like anyone is going to be affected by that. And

522
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: he might not have been lying. He might just have

523
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 2: been like, look, I have to talk about this once.

524
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: I really don't want to keep talking about this because

525
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: it's fucked up.

526
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 3: I mean one of the parts actually felt genuine. Were

527
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 3: certain sections of this where he was like saying like,

528
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 3: I'm I'm I was not supposed to be here tonight,

529
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 3: and the crowd was like, yes you are.

530
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 2: Yeah he was like no, no, no, really close.

531
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 3: You know, he was thanking God. I don't know how

532
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 3: genuine that is for him, and how much of that's

533
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 3: political posture.

534
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that I don't necessarily believe that.

535
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: That's just kind of what you have to do.

536
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: He certainly knows that he barely made it out of

537
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 2: that fucking speech.

538
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. And he pointed to thessassination attempt as a sign

539
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 3: of how divided this country has been. A very world

540
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 3: trying to find the guy who did this moment, And

541
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 3: he called the Democrats to stop the witch hunts if

542
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 3: they want to unify the country, saying, quote, we must

543
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: not demonize political disagreement, and the Democrats should quote stop

544
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: weaponizing the Justice Department against Trump and labeling him an

545
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 3: enemy of democracy. So he's saying, the way to actually

546
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 3: unify this country is just to stop stopping bad. Yeah,

547
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 3: stop saying orange man bad. That's really what he was,

548
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: That's what he was getting at.

549
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: Well, and I you know, you get if you want

550
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 2: to see the things that you can gain from this

551
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 2: that are useful in how to fight these people. They

552
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: are scared of the attacks that portray Trump as an

553
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 2: enemy of democracy. The Project twenty twenty five focus was

554
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 2: hurting Republicans and polling and the fact that the dims

555
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: have pulled back maybe not.

556
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 3: Mentioned in a single speech this week.

557
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody talked up twenty twenty five. You know, even

558
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,479
Speaker 2: the Heritage Foundation people were notably cagier about it than

559
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: you might expect in their interviews with the press, because

560
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: they do know that it's not a good it's not

561
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: great for them to bring up now.

562
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 3: It's not popular. Yeah, and you know, slowly Trump's speech

563
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 3: got more more Trumpian rights, saying that Democrats are destroying

564
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 3: our country, talking about you know, immigrants invading our country.

565
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 3: As he said, he said there word invasion many many times. Yeah,

566
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 3: saying that that there that saying that legal immigrants are

567
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: killing hundreds of thousands of people a year.

568
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the fentanyl thing. It's even though ninety fyl

569
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 2: is brought into US sports of entry by US citizens. Yeah,

570
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: that line actually was one of the through lines. That

571
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 2: was almost every day of this I heard someone mention

572
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 2: that we've lost as many or more Americans to fentanyl

573
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 2: as we did in World War Two. At one point

574
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: it might have been in Trump's speech. It was even

575
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: framed as like more people have died from fentanyl than

576
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 2: died in World War Two, and like, well, no, no, no, lot,

577
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people died in World War two, just

578
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: not that many Americans. Really.

579
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of World War two era Germany in Trump's

580
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 3: little section, we sure did get a mention there. In

581
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 3: Trump's little section about inflation, he gave a fascinating comment, yeah, saying, quote,

582
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 3: you can go back to Germany one hundred years ago

583
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 3: unquote to see the negative effects of inflation, yea, pointing

584
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: to like fin Maar era Germany.

585
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're talking about Vymar. He's talking about like

586
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: what immediately preceded the Nazis coming to power.

587
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and but like also framing it is like

588
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 3: I'll be the one to get us out of inflation,

589
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 3: which is very similar messaging as the fascist movements did,

590
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 3: saying to Germany that was in you know, in a

591
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 3: real economic issue, we will be the ones to fix

592
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 3: this through through nationalism, closing our borders through putting Germany first,

593
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 3: like that is, it's, it's it was. It was a

594
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 3: very very odd comparison for Trump to make. I don't

595
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: know how well he thought through that. I don't believe

596
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: that was this was like an intentional code admits it didn't.

597
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: It didn't seem like.

598
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 3: I don't think Trump works that way.

599
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, he definitely does have teleprompters sometimes, but he also

600
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: he is like a good public speaker. He doesn't just

601
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: stick religious to it, you know, And that did strike

602
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: me as a line that may have just come right

603
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: out of the heart.

604
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: Now, he had a few other interesting things in the economy.

605
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: He was talking a lot about increasing car manufacturing jobs,

606
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 3: including saying the leader of the United Autoworkers should be

607
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 3: fired and promising to put tariffs of one hundred to

608
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 3: two hundred percent on all foreign made cars, which would

609
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 3: I'm sure do some real.

610
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: Stuck up on your toyotas now, folks, well they make

611
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: a lot of them in the US.

612
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 3: I'm sure that would really help the economy.

613
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is like, I mean, part of the

614
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: there's a lot to say about that. One thing that's interesting,

615
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: someone had told you because you were the first person

616
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: to bring this up to me. There were strong rumors

617
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 2: that really a midday before the speech started percolating that

618
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 2: Elon Musk was going to show up and introduce or

619
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: introduce people.

620
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 3: I heard this from like Thursday morning.

621
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: Which may mean that they were just getting some bullshit.

622
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: It may mean that there were actually talks, right, I'm

623
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: sure because Musk has been real like Musk has been

624
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 2: trying do get Trump's attention. Yeah, that's beyond debate.

625
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: He wants Trump on Twitter m hm.

626
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: And he wants Trump. You know. He's he's been making

627
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: all these statements about how much money he's going to

628
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: donate to Trump and now he's endorsing him. Now, do

629
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: I actually think he's gonna give the RNC forty five

630
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: million dollars a month? No, he's going to find some

631
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: bullshit way he's gonna give him something. But he's gonna fight.

632
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: He's he's he never spends gives like that's too much

633
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: money for him to want to spend on them, right, Like,

634
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: I think he's going to fuck them the way he

635
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: fucks everybody over. But it was interesting to me how

636
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: much talk there was of him showing up and absolutely

637
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: no eel on And in fact, there was a moment

638
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: where Trump was like, hey, electric cars are fine for

639
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: some things, but like we got to subsidize gas cars.

640
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. He talked about, you know, increasing drilling in the

641
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 3: United States and kind of the last big topic that

642
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: he went to was the border. He pointed to the

643
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 3: to the little border patrol chart that he looked at

644
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 3: the split second before those shots fired, which saved his life,

645
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 3: So you can thank the borderroll chart for that. He

646
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 3: said that Mexico and South American countries are sending murderers

647
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 3: and people from a sane asylums into the United States.

648
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: It was interesting because Naibukele of El Salvador, it keeps

649
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: getting brought up as like a Trumpian figure, is like,

650
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 2: this is the kind of leader Trump wants to be.

651
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: Look at how good he's done it, like stopping violent

652
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: crime in El Salvador. Trump shat on him. Trump accused

653
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,959
Speaker 2: him of sending all of El Salvador's violent criminals and

654
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 2: psychopaths to the United States, which I thought was interesting.

655
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 3: Actually, was it El Salvador Venezuela.

656
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: Both He brought up both because he also brought up

657
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: Venezuela and accused them of doing that, he said El Salvador.

658
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: But he also brought up Venezuela and said, maybe next

659
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: election will hold the RNC in Venezuela because it's so

660
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: peaceful now because they sent all their rapists here.

661
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 3: Exactly that. Then he had the late great Hannibal Lecter line,

662
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 3: and then immediately afterwards he said that he will enact

663
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 3: the largest deportation program in American history. Yeah, and that's

664
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 3: just what a very beautiful snapshot of the current American politican.

665
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 2: And it got a great reaction. And I would say

666
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: that by far the most aggressive, because he really didn't

667
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: play any of that much of the much of if

668
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: any radical left stuff. He really even didn't other than

669
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: to say that Joe was like a bad president, the

670
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: country was in bad shape. He didn't like yell at Democrats.

671
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: Much hate was mostly reserved for migrants and immigrants.

672
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 3: Yes. He closed by saying that we're going to be

673
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: building an iron dome in the United States.

674
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that curveball.

675
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then he pivoted to saying that we will

676
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 3: not have men playing in women's sports, which is the

677
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 3: first trans reference.

678
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: In his whole speech, and he just kind of dropped

679
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: it and then changed.

680
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 3: And then he immediately continued to something else, And the

681
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 3: crowd did not react to that nearly as much as

682
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: they reacted to any of the other mentions of like

683
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 3: trans people.

684
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: I think because it just kind of he just kind

685
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: of threw it out there, but then we're right back to.

686
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: It was almost like a perfunctory line, like knew he.

687
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: Had again and drop a line about because I think

688
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: it is perfunctory because again Trump doesn't really care all

689
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 2: that much about the culture, like the social stuff.

690
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that is That's pretty much what they closed

691
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 3: the speech on. Most mostly on this migrant stuff, this

692
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 3: iron dome thing, and increase increasing the increasing the manufacturing

693
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 3: jobs in the United States, which is you know, a

694
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 3: lot of a lot of what Trump's messaging was back

695
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 3: at twenty sixteen as well.

696
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 2: So I mean, in a way, it was mostly him

697
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 2: playing the hits. You know, we had the there was

698
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: He did bring out Corey Contemporis firefighter's uniform. It was

699
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: on stage behind him the whole time. He kissed it.

700
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 3: At one point walked up to it and I thought

701
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 3: he was gonna going for a hug, and I was like, oh,

702
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 3: that's gonna be weird, and instead he went up behind

703
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 3: and kissed it, which was also weird.

704
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 2: It kind of did a Joe Biden to the Dead

705
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: Man's It was firefighter.

706
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: It was a very Joe Biden.

707
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: And he brought up Corey. He brought also up the

708
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 2: other people who were wounded. He named them all, which

709
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 2: you know, you I makes sense, you have to do it.

710
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: He didn't really talk much about Corey beyond that, like

711
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: Corey was there as a prop. He kissed it, and

712
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: then he.

713
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 3: Gave a five second moment of silence, a very brief

714
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 3: moment of silence.

715
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: And then they moved on. And when his speech ended

716
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: for the night, Garrison and I both saw this was

717
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: beautiful moments to share with you, Garrett. You and I

718
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 2: have shared some moments, but this was. This is right

719
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: up at the top of the list as all of

720
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: the the whole convention, the whole ceiling is balloons, right.

721
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: They've got them up there. They have some sort of

722
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: system by which like at the end they trigger it

723
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 2: and they all start falling down and they'll fall for

724
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 2: ten fifteen minutes. Like there's a lot of balloons and

725
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: it's rigged so that they're and you know, some of

726
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: them are red, white and blue. A lot of them

727
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: are like gold.

728
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 3: Huge gold balloons.

729
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the last sight we get, you know, as

730
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 2: as Trump is on stage with his family, balloons are

731
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: showering the crowds everywhere streaming.

732
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 3: They're celebrating what they see as as an inevitable victory.

733
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Two stage crew guys take Corey's uniform and wheel

734
00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 2: it unceremoniously off stage into darkness as quietly wheel its

735
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 2: balloons poured down and everyone dances and cheeers.

736
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 3: No one, no one noticed.

737
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: We're done. It's like Frank Grime's caskets sinking into the

738
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 2: into the dirt, and the Simpsons like no one sees,

739
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: one sees.

740
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 3: Very unceremoniously, very quietly, very quickly just wheeled off and

741
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 3: what we needed from him as the celebration continues. And

742
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 3: also they spelled his name wrong on the firefighting uniform,

743
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 3: to be it was previously spelled wrong.

744
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's I think it was an issue of

745
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: when he was a firefighter. They just could only have

746
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 2: so many letters on the jackets. But you know, there

747
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: was some talk about that. I have seen a lot

748
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: of folks making the comparison to Horst Wessel, who was

749
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: a German member of the Brown Shirts who's also a pimp,

750
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 2: who gets got murdered by some communists in retaliation for

751
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: acts of violence he had carried out right before the

752
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 2: Third Reich took power, and they they really made a

753
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 2: lot out of his death. He got this massive state funeral,

754
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: They had a very popular song about him. He was

755
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: kind of he was kind of the individual chosen to

756
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 2: embody all of the guys who died in the street

757
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: fights prior to the right of the party. And people

758
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 2: have been comparing Corey to Horst. I get why, because

759
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: this is we are watching a fascist party near power here,

760
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: and there's clearly some desire in that for Corey to

761
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 2: be that. Horst was the focus of almost I'm not

762
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: almost a cult And what I saw here was a perfunctory, Well,

763
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 2: we got to mention this guy. Uh, we got to like,

764
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: you know, make a reference to him. But let's let's

765
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: get in and out of that. We got to move

766
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: on to the meat and potatoes. That's not gonna win us.

767
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 2: And I think what is like the the swing voters

768
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 2: and shit don't care about Corey contemporary right, that's not

769
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: gonna that's our base is going to expect us to

770
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 2: say something. It's also just like the thing you do.

771
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 2: This guy got killed at your rally with a bulletmint

772
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: for you, you got to bring up something. But then

773
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: let's move on. Let's get him out of there, Let's

774
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 2: shove his fucking uniform into the fucking back closet, and uh,

775
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 2: get back to the party, you know. And that is

776
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: different from how the Nazis handled horsed And I think

777
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 2: that difference maybe it signals a real difference in the

778
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: structure of American fascism, you know, and how it inhabits

779
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: a party, or maybe it's just a measure of we're

780
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 2: not all fully bought in on this to the extent

781
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: in the same way that the Nazis were, right like,

782
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 2: we really are trying to just get a lot of

783
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 2: people on board to vote for us, and we don't

784
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 2: want to get too weird with it. We don't want

785
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: to have a big cult for Corey at the RNC,

786
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 2: the big religious state. That's got to be off putting

787
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: to Americans. So let's we'll kiss the hat people like firefighters,

788
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: shove it back. That's how I took that.

789
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 3: There's two other things I want to mention I've had JD.

790
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 3: Vance's hype song stuck in my head. Boy, yeah, because

791
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 3: they just kept playing it at that convention, and it's

792
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: an interesting song. It has it has a good beat.

793
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 3: It for most of the song, it's talking about how,

794
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 3: you know, we spend all this time trying to like

795
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 3: liberate other countries, right, and maybe actually we're the ones

796
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: that need to be liberated. Maybe maybe America actually needs

797
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 3: to be saved. Maybe we aren't as free as what

798
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: we would think. And it has a line about like

799
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 3: getting out of Iraq.

800
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 2: We got to get out of we got to get

801
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: out of Iraq, take our country back and put America first.

802
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 3: And I mean that is the point that where they

803
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 3: lose me. Obviously, it's still it's still interesting for one

804
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 3: of them, Like for the Vice President's song at the

805
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 3: RNC to be anti Iraqs. I'm like, hey, there there

806
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 3: were people telling you back then not to do Iraq

807
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 3: and you really wanted to.

808
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: We heard it for the first time on Monday when

809
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: Vance got officially announced as the nominee, and I kind

810
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: of wondered, then, if like is this a fuck up?

811
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 2: Was like somebody they were like, oh, there's a Merle

812
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: Haggard song about America first, let's throw that in there,

813
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: and then realized, oh no, there's we can't have that.

814
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 2: We're the party who did the Iraq stuff. But it

815
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 2: kept coming up, man kept being played. So it's very intentional, clearly.

816
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 3: And we were talking last night about this and like

817
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 3: how how this is how these tips sort of nationalist

818
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 3: projects always work. And we we've seen more America first,

819
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 3: like that, that exact phrase used at this convention way

820
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 3: more than any any previous one. Trump said it a

821
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 3: few times. A lot of speakers have been saying it,

822
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 3: just like we need to put America first. And yeah,

823
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 3: specifically in this song, you know, it has it has

824
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 3: this kind of populist bent that then veers very hard nationalists,

825
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 3: which I'm sure we're all familiar with as a political tendency.

826
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 3: But I've just thought I found that to be the

827
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 3: most interesting part is because for like the majority of

828
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 3: that song, I'm like, yes, absolutely, I agree. And then

829
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 3: and and then they say the America first line, and

830
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, that is not that is not what

831
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 3: we're talking about. It's yeah, and I just know it's

832
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 3: it's it's been something I've been thinking about and I'm

833
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: sure we'll want I'm sure we'll do some more deep

834
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 3: dives on Vance in the coming weeks, since he's a

835
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: little bit, you know, less well known to many of you,

836
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 3: I assume. And the the last thing I kind of

837
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 3: want to mention is that yesterday, right before Trump's speech,

838
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 3: I was getting some work done and I happened to

839
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 3: be sitting about ten feet away from Ted Cruz, who

840
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 3: was who is talking on air about his thoughts on

841
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 3: like both this this convention and this election in general.

842
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 3: And he said a few interesting things that I half

843
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 3: heard that I that I quickly just scribbled down on

844
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 3: a notebook. He said that, you know this, this convention

845
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 3: already feels like a celebration, right, this already feels like

846
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 3: like we've kind of won. But he warned Republicans to

847
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 3: be scared of over confidence. He said that we're kind

848
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 3: of acting like how the Democrats were acting in twenty sixteen.

849
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 2: I have been saying that all week.

850
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's that's what Ted Cruz was saying. Yeah.

851
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 3: He thinks that that that Biden is not going to

852
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 3: be the candidate, that someone else is going to come

853
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 3: into place.

854
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 4: Now.

855
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 3: He believes that that's going to be Michelle Obama, which

856
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: is believable in an unhinged opinions.

857
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: Unbelievable because like, do I think Michelle Obama would have

858
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: a decent shot at winning the presidency in this election?

859
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 2: And sure, do I think Michelle Obama wants to go

860
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 2: anywhere near the White House again in her life?

861
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 3: Now?

862
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 2: Absolute, it's like a nightmare. She's making movies, they're produced,

863
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: they're in Hollywood. You're doing the thing people when.

864
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 3: They're doing what Ted Cruz wants to do.

865
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 2: When people are allowed to make big Hollywood movies, they

866
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: don't want to get into politics for a long time.

867
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 2: That's how we avoided having fascists and power in this

868
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 2: country and like like direct power, like like Trump type

869
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: kind of fascists.

870
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 3: We're very lucky that Clint Eastwood just makes movies and

871
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 3: doesn't do.

872
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: Are the people who would be the best we have?

873
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 2: You know, you have fascists like stuck inside of the bureaucracy,

874
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: But the people who could really have the potential charisma

875
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: to be populist leaders wind up becoming movie stars. Tom

876
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 2: Cruise could have been a president. Oh he's he's got

877
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 2: what it takes, but he decided to devote all of

878
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: that manic kind of charisma energy into climbing the bersh Khalifa.

879
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 2: And that's part of the genius of the American system.

880
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 3: And I mean, guess lastly, Milwaukee was lovely. All the

881
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 3: food service workers Milwaukee's great. Even the poor people who

882
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 3: were forced to work at the convention center consistently nice,

883
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 3: did a great job. And there's there's one one anecdote

884
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 3: that Robert should mention.

885
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: Just regardless of a favorite part of the convention, some

886
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 2: of the.

887
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 3: Very fine people here in Milwaukee.

888
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: I've gotten shouted my my occasional enemy, well always enemy,

889
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 2: but occasionally I remember that he exists. Andy No made

890
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 2: a series of posts about how there was a dangerous

891
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 2: Antifa terrorist at the convention and like clipped a couple

892
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 2: of posts of mine out of context like he always does,

893
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: and was like, you know, people in his in his

894
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 2: mentions were tagging the Secret Service.

895
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 3: In THEBN it serves Laura Lumer.

896
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 2: I continued to repeatedly enter the r n C. I

897
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 2: went through. God, I lost count of how many times

898
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 2: I went through Secret Service checkpoints. We snuck into the

899
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 2: hair Ridage Foundation party. None of it mattered. The only

900
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 2: people at the show who recognized me were like technical

901
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 2: folks for the different radio. I had a couple of

902
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 2: different people who were carrying booms carrying cameras who like referenced,

903
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: like recognized me and shouted me out, which I felt

904
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: good about. What I felt best about is as you

905
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 2: and I were walking to the stadium to see the speech,

906
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 2: we see a forklift driving down the street in the

907
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 2: middle of this one of the crowded streets. Yeah, which

908
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 2: is kind of crazy. It's weird. I've never actually seen

909
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 2: a construction vehicle driving around inside the during like the

910
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 2: convention hours, so that was weird. And as we're like

911
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 2: watching this thing, like I honestly wondered, like, should I

912
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 2: like get a footage of this? That's kind of wild looking?

913
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: As were as we see it like kind of coming

914
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 2: up next to us, the driver leans out of the

915
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 2: side of the vehicle and he is a beautiful man

916
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 2: covered in tattoos, huge nos ring and he's like.

917
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: Hey, Roberts, we have the demographic.

918
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 2: Nothing has ever made me so certain that we're doing

919
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: the right thing with our lives. We're reaching the people

920
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 2: we need to be reaching.

921
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 3: You know, we forklift certified soldiers out there so Forklift Nation.

922
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to it could happen here.

923
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 3: We do this for you.

924
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 2: We do this for you. We know you have our

925
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 2: backs and we have your back.

926
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 3: Stay save everybody.

927
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, God bless.

928
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 5: Hello, Welcome to It could happen here? Another food episode.

929
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 5: How did we get here today? We're talking about asparagus.

930
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,280
Speaker 5: Why you might ask, once again, you can blame James

931
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 5: Stout Hi James.

932
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 4: Hi, Cheren. I'm happy to be blamed. I take responsibility

933
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 4: for asparagus.

934
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 5: Why did you want me to talk about asparagus?

935
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 4: Well, it's because Shereen I grew up in the vyl

936
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 4: Aviv Sham. The vyl Aviv Sham, if people aren't familiar,

937
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 4: is an area in the middle of England where asparagus

938
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 4: has grown heavily. In fact, there's a protected origin, so

939
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 4: you could only call it vel Aviv Shum asparagus if

940
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 4: it comes. Yeah, there was a big asparagus auction that

941
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 4: used to happen the first the first so around it's

942
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 4: called grass and not asparagus. Right, Where's I'll get into that? Yeah, good, good,

943
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 4: excited to Then it's so do you know how many

944
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 4: how many spears are in a round?

945
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 2: Sreen.

946
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 5: No, let's say no.

947
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 4: Okay, it's a gross, a gross of spears, so it gross.

948
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 4: How many do you know how many in a gross? No,

949
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 4: it is one hundred and forty four. It's twelve times twelve.

950
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 6: Wow.

951
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 4: So there's a pub called the Round of Grass. We

952
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,919
Speaker 4: scot a lot. When I was younger, I used to work.

953
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 4: If anyone knows it high maybe you probably know me.

954
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 4: It's small fan to my mum, who is probably the

955
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 4: only person I used to work to stand the road

956
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 4: from there at a tomato like a big tomato greenhouse.

957
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 5: You used to work at a tomato greenhouse.

958
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 4: Yep, yep, pack up the tomatoes. Slap a label on

959
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 4: that bad boy, sat. It's such a crap job, Like

960
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 4: I mean, it doesn't say no disrespect if you work

961
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 4: in the tomato greenhouse and that's what you enjoy, Like,

962
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 4: that's great, Like I love to grow a tomato. That

963
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 4: job was just not I didn't like it. The same

964
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 4: thing every day.

965
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Well, well, today is not

966
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 5: a tomato episode. Today is an asparagus episode. Let's just

967
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 5: get into it. I want you to talk more about

968
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 5: your hometown, but I'm gonna sprinkle it in here and there.

969
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 5: Just to make these more interesting, Let's just get into

970
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 5: the nitty gritty of what asparagus is. Apparently, the asparagus

971
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 5: is a member of the lily family. The plant is

972
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 5: made up of the top, which is the fern, the

973
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 5: crowns which are the buds, and then the roots. All

974
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 5: three of these parts are vital to a productive asparagus plant.

975
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 5: The fern is known as the factory, which through photosynthesis,

976
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 5: produces food sorted in the crown and their roots below ground.

977
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 5: The number of vigorous spears in the spring depends on

978
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 5: the amount of food produced and stored in the crown

979
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 5: during the preceding summer and fall. Producing a good crop

980
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 5: of fern is necessary for ensuring a good crop of

981
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 5: spears the following spring. It's important not to cut the

982
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 5: old fern at the end of the season until it

983
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,919
Speaker 5: is completely dead, and the best time to remove old

984
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 5: fern is in the spring, since valuable food and nutrients

985
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 5: move during the autumn months from the dying fern to

986
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 5: the crown. Fascinating, Yeah, maybe you're wondering is there a

987
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 5: nutritional value? Yes, of course it's a vegetable, But one

988
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 5: cup of asparagus has no fat and only two grays

989
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 5: of sugar and three milligrams of salt. Apparently, it's known

990
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 5: as one of the most nutritionally balanced vegetables ever, a

991
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 5: lot of fiber, and it contains no cholesterol, very low

992
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,720
Speaker 5: in sodium, as I said, a good source of folic acid, potassium,

993
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 5: as well as vitamin's A A six and vitamin C. Wowie, Yeah,

994
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 5: only the young shoots of asparagus are eaten. Fun fact.

995
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 5: There's also an amino acid called asparagene, and this gets

996
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 5: its name from asparagus because the asparagus plant is rich

997
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 5: in this compound. Asparagene is also commonly found fun fact

998
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 5: in French fries and potatoes, which are potatoes and fries

999
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 5: are the same. There are over three hundred known varieties

1000
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 5: of asparagus, and the varieties most widely seen in the

1001
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 5: United States include the white variety, which is preferred in Europe.

1002
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 5: I'll get into this later, but apparently chefs in Europe

1003
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 5: only usually use white James.

1004
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's the mainland Europe. Maybe now that we've exited, obviously,

1005
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 4: we can be proud of our green asparagus. I've not

1006
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 4: enjoyed white asparagus. I think it lacks fresh, the fresh flavor.

1007
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 5: There's a reason for that. There's a reason for that.

1008
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, they pile up the soil, right, so yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.

1009
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, well spoiler alert, I was going to call it

1010
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 5: is very fascinating that they prefer to do that, though,

1011
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 5: But regardless, the three varieties in the United States include

1012
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 5: the white one, and these sunlight deprived stocks are a

1013
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 5: little milder and more delicate. It's difficult to find these

1014
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 5: fresh in the US, but they are widely available canned

1015
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 5: or in jars.

1016
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 4: They don't want to be eating a sparis in a

1017
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 4: can or a jar, though.

1018
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 5: I mean, you don't want to be eating most things

1019
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 5: in a canna a jar.

1020
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 4: That's pretic. A sardine if you're a person who eats

1021
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 4: sardines very good in a.

1022
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 5: Can, I'm not going to do a hardy an episode.

1023
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 4: That could be a really interesting episode. I used to

1024
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 4: live in a place where they had a protected origin

1025
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 4: for those as well.

1026
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 5: You know, after doing sea your Chins, I was glad

1027
00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 5: to do asparagus because asparagus, says, are not little think things.

1028
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 5: I'm not trying to be annoying, but I think it's

1029
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 5: hard for me to talk about things like eating.

1030
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

1031
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 5: About them because they are food, but they're not my

1032
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 5: first choice. So I'm glad to be talking about a

1033
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 5: plant today. I don't find asparagus cute, so maybe it's

1034
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 5: easier for me to eat them. That's that's just my

1035
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 5: own bias.

1036
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't derail your episode. I've been reminded that

1037
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 4: I had my twenty first birthday party at one of

1038
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 4: the pubs at Auctions. The asparagus. Wow, tidbit.

1039
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 5: I love some James Stout Loore.

1040
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 4: Forget in the varn, in the varn at the fleece

1041
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 4: at Breadforton. The other one, of course, is around the

1042
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 4: grass and batsy.

1043
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 5: Wow, fascinating. Your life continues to be fascinating.

1044
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 4: That's extremely fucking mundane.

1045
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 5: It's fucking weird in a good way. But sure they're

1046
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 5: the other variety, the violet or purple kind of asparagus.

1047
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 5: This one is commonly found in England and Italy and

1048
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 5: it has a very substantial stock. And then is the

1049
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 5: green asparagus, which is the most widely known kind of asparagus,

1050
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 5: because most American asparagus is of this variety, and it

1051
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 5: ranges from pencil thin to very thick. They describe it

1052
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 5: as the size of your thumb, but I think this

1053
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 5: is relative, depending on how big your thumb is. And

1054
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 5: then there's also wild asparagus, and these asparagus grow in

1055
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 5: wild areas. It's mostly found in Europe or like on

1056
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 5: the coastline somewhere, and you'll most likely have to hunt

1057
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 5: down your own because it's rarely available fresh in markets

1058
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 5: except for in Italy and the south of France.

1059
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 4: No, wild asparagus is great, it's going to be. Uh,

1060
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 4: you do have to be as with anything that you're

1061
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 4: taking out of the out of the wild areas. You

1062
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,439
Speaker 4: do want to be careful that you're getting wild asparagus.

1063
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 4: We are a couple of things because if you confuse

1064
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 4: it with something else, oh, I mean yeah you can

1065
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 4: can Yeah, you can get yourself. I'm trying to remember.

1066
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, don't be like into the wild out here, like yeah.

1067
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, don't into the world yourself with a world asparagus.

1068
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 4: Samfa is another delicious vegetable. It's a bit like I

1069
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 4: think it's a relative of asparagus. It's like sea asparagus

1070
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 4: s a m p h ire.

1071
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 5: Wow, see asparagus.

1072
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, so many little Yeah, fascinating. It's I think it's

1073
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 4: a maybe it's not a relative. Maybe it's just a

1074
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 4: like a seaweed. It's pretty good if you get it.

1075
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 4: That's one you can forage pretty easily. Nearly all seaweeds edible,

1076
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 4: So you know, if you're out and about.

1077
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 5: Good source of iodine, I'm sure.

1078
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well yeah, But.

1079
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 5: As with any plant, James, asparagus has its own ideas.

1080
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:35,760
Speaker 3: It's called sea beans.

1081
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 4: Well, sorry, I'm just sorry, ten, I've ruined your episode

1082
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 4: sea beans? No, yes, what fucking Americans call it? What

1083
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 4: a stupid name?

1084
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 5: I mean, you do ruin moost things?

1085
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, I don't know. It's a little two too straightforward.

1086
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 4: It's literally mentioned in king Lear Like, why do you

1087
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 4: have to change it? Shakespearean vegetable?

1088
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 5: M Well, today is about asparagus. Today, we're talking about asparagus.

1089
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 5: A sea bean maybe next time. But James, as with

1090
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 5: any plant, the asparagus has its own ideal growing conditions.

1091
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 5: So let's get into that. Where is an ideal growing

1092
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 5: condition for an asparagus? A good amount of sun is ideal.

1093
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,439
Speaker 5: Asparagus needs at least eight hours of sun per day.

1094
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 5: And since asparagus is a long lived perennial plant. It

1095
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 5: should not be planted where trees or tall shrubs might

1096
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 5: eventually shade the plants or compete for nutrients and water.

1097
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 5: When it comes to the soil, the crown and root

1098
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 5: system can grow to a large size, which can be

1099
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 5: roughly five to six feet in diameter and ten to

1100
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 5: fifteen feet deep. Therefore, when possible, you should select a

1101
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 5: soil that is loose, deep, well drained, and fertile. On

1102
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 5: sites with poor soil, incorporate manure and compost into the

1103
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 5: soil and plant until under two successive cover crops the

1104
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 5: season before you plant your asparagus, and you should be

1105
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,360
Speaker 5: just fine. Asparagus is planted in the spring. The simplest

1106
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 5: method is to plant one year old crowns and you

1107
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 5: lay down the ground soil prior to growing asparagus for

1108
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 5: the first time. And even though the young crown will

1109
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 5: appear to be a lifeless mass of roots, it will

1110
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:12,720
Speaker 5: begin to send up small green shoots shortly after planting,

1111
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 5: so as I mentioned, asparagus is planted in the spring,

1112
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 5: but it's also one of the very first crops harvested

1113
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 5: during the spring season, and that means metaphorically, It represents

1114
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 5: the transition from the frozen winter months and its emphasis

1115
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:31,240
Speaker 5: on root vegetables to the abundance and newness of spring. Yeah,

1116
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 5: asparagus for farmers can mean even more. Farmer Lee Jones

1117
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 5: from The Chef's Garden says quote, the farmer is an

1118
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 5: eternal optimist, always hoping that next year will be the year,

1119
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,280
Speaker 5: the year when rain falls and exactly the right amounts

1120
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 5: at exactly the right times, that it's never too hot

1121
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 5: and never too cold, and the weather is exactly what

1122
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 5: we might wish. No season is ever perfect, of course,

1123
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 5: but try telling that to a farmer as he or

1124
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 5: she sits in front of a cozy fireplace in the wintertime,

1125
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 5: feet propped up, looking through seed catalogs and dreaming of spring.

1126
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 5: Winter refreshes us, and asparagus represents the hope of renewal

1127
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 5: and the optimism of what spring might bring. When it's

1128
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 5: time to begin harvesting asparagus, farmers smell the earth again,

1129
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 5: see the earthworms, and listen once again to the kill

1130
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 5: deer in the blackbirds. This portent of spring is a

1131
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 5: welcome celebration. Asparagus is a recurrent affirmation that winter is

1132
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 5: over and delicious treasures from the field are eminent. This

1133
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 5: man loves asparagus.

1134
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is farmers. Apparently it's not my recollection of winter.

1135
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 4: This man has never been very wet, very cold.

1136
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 5: I suppose not.

1137
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, doing a Christmas lamming.

1138
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 5: I suppose you can think of asparagus as a very

1139
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 5: patient vegetable. It rests quietly underground, absorbing nutrients from the

1140
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 5: soil and remaining underground during the freezing winter months before

1141
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 5: it begins to push through the soil when it's warm

1142
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 5: in the springtime, and this again signals the start of

1143
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 5: the spring season. In nineteen fifty six, The New York

1144
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 5: Times published an article calling asparagus the healthy quote spring

1145
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 5: tonic for weary appetites. I just thought it was a

1146
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 5: fun facts. That's that's all for that. Asparagus can grow

1147
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 5: quite fast too. You can cut asparagus in the morning

1148
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 5: and it just keeps growing. And here's a fun fact

1149
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 5: for you. In ideal conditions, asparagus can grow ten inches

1150
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 5: in a twenty four hour period.

1151
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's crazy, that's fast. It takes a long time

1152
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 4: to get ready, right, it takes three years and then

1153
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 4: it just.

1154
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, look, it's definitely an investment of time

1155
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 5: for it to grow that way. But it sounds like

1156
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 5: it's worth it if you love asparagus, like farmer le

1157
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 5: Jones up there.

1158
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 4: Yeah he does, do yount another little vale of eves

1159
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 4: in factoid. Please The church in Bredfton has a stained

1160
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 4: glass window which is a glass of asparagus.

1161
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 7: No, it doesn't.

1162
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 4: It's a depiction of asparagus. I will find it for you.

1163
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 5: Sure like asparagus, says Jesus.

1164
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 4: No, it's just asparagus in the window. Oh like, it's

1165
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 4: not how it is.

1166
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 5: Not less weird. I don't know if that's less weirder

1167
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 5: or not.

1168
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 4: But I'm just gotta find it for you here. Well

1169
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 4: it's is grass underneath. I'll just drop it in the chat.

1170
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 4: Get a live react.

1171
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 3: No.

1172
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I had a little twine wrapped around it too.

1173
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, Well that's how you do a round

1174
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 4: of grass. Yeah, you do them in dozens, right, and

1175
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 4: then a dozen dozen you wrap around.

1176
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 5: That's that's a stained glass depiction of asparagus.

1177
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 4: Okay, yeahparagus is next to godliness.

1178
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,919
Speaker 5: Oh I'm getting into why that might be the case.

1179
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 5: So just to reiterate how much patience and time you yourself

1180
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 5: need if you do want to plant asparagus, because although

1181
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 5: green asparagus is typically what's seen in grocery stores, it

1182
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 5: comes in all the colors that we said, But no

1183
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 5: matter what it is, it's important to protect the strength

1184
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 5: of the root or else it won't succeed in growing.

1185
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 5: And this is how gentle you need to be. First,

1186
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 5: you plant the three year old roots, and if the

1187
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 5: asparagus root is in its first year in growth, which

1188
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 5: is really then it's fourth, you should only pick it

1189
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 5: for one week because you don't want to zap the

1190
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 5: root strength. Then after two years, which would be really

1191
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 5: its fifth, you pick it only for two weeks. By

1192
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 5: the time it's four years old, which yes means that's

1193
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 5: a seven year total, then you can harvest it for

1194
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 5: longer amounts of time a good plant though, after all,

1195
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 5: this process can last up to twenty years, so it's

1196
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 5: important to let the young ones build up strength for

1197
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 5: the future. We mentioned this before James gave it away.

1198
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 5: But in Europe chefs almost always use the white asparagus,

1199
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:48,439
Speaker 5: rarely the green ones, and this is because the white

1200
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 5: asparagus beautifully offers up the luscious notes apparently of corn

1201
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 5: and sweet cabbage, but European farmers. The reason why this

1202
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 5: is is that they mound and pack soil over the

1203
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 5: asparagus plants to blow the chlorophyll process, and this is

1204
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 5: the process that ends up creating the white color when

1205
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 5: you block it. And these plants need to push hard

1206
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 5: through the soil and because of that, they end up

1207
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 5: with tough outer skins that need to be peeled off,

1208
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 5: which is not the case with the green variety. And

1209
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 5: then this adds labor like expenses and time into the

1210
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 5: mix of harvesting it. And a lot of people think

1211
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 5: that this results in the most nutritional part of the

1212
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 5: vegetable being thrown away.

1213
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 4: So why, yeah, why you dan't get It's one of

1214
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 4: the things that wrong about.

1215
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 5: Here are some more fun facts. Chefs say that to

1216
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 5: enjoy the bright green flavor of asparagus, you salt your

1217
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 5: water before blanching, and then, since the ends of asparagus

1218
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 5: are extremely tough, the best way to prepare the asparagus

1219
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 5: is a snap the ends off, which you probably already know,

1220
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 5: but you usually can find a slight bend where it

1221
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 5: can be broken off and this will preserve the most

1222
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 5: asparagus possible.

1223
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 4: You want to have a good snap though. If it's

1224
01:00:58,120 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 4: like it is fun.

1225
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 5: When that happens, I like like a good satisfying snap sound.

1226
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's when you know it's a fresh one. If

1227
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 4: it's if it's got like a squeeze. If it was floppy,

1228
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 4: then it's probably it's been out for too long. You

1229
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 4: have to eat it very fresh. It's very important. They

1230
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 4: would drive out to London, get me in a really

1231
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 4: early morning, drive up to London and sell it to

1232
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 4: look at London people, of which I'm not one, and

1233
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 4: then they would have there it's very luxury vegetable.

1234
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 5: Wow.

1235
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is not a cheap vegetable.

1236
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 5: I'm going to get into the royalty of this vegetable

1237
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 5: that has been called the King of vegetables. But first

1238
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 5: we're going to take a break. So hm, go grab

1239
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 5: some asparagus and we'll be right back. And we're back,

1240
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 5: let's talk about some history of asparagus. The exact origins

1241
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 5: of asparagus are hard to pinpoint, although it is known

1242
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 5: to the eastern Mediterranean and parts of Asia. Asparagus can

1243
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 5: be found naturalized in many parts of the world today,

1244
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 5: and it is unclear exactly when it was naturalized how

1245
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 5: long the plant has been used as a medicinal vegetable

1246
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 5: is also uncertain, but it was known and highly prized

1247
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 5: by the Romans since at least two hundred BC. The

1248
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 5: Romans were apparently very knowledgeable about the difference in quality

1249
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 5: and the difference in varieties that they experimented with, and

1250
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 5: they knew the best places to grow the crop. The

1251
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 5: most popular way that the Romans enjoyed to prepare their

1252
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 5: asparagus was to pick it, let it dry, and then

1253
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 5: when they wanted to eat it, they would simply cook

1254
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 5: it for a few minutes. Ancient royalty seemed fascinated with asparagus.

1255
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 5: Roman emperor Caesar Augustus was said to have organized elite

1256
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 5: military units to search out this vegetable. He would then

1257
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 5: locate the fastest runners to take the fresh asparagus spears

1258
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 5: into the frozen alps for storage purposes. Ancient Greeks meanwhile

1259
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 5: harvested wild asparagus and connected this vegetable to their goddess

1260
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 5: of life of Aphrodite. Numerous other cultures have also considered

1261
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 5: this freshly sprouted asparagus a symbol of fertility, and so

1262
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:11,959
Speaker 5: the history of asparagus goes back a very long long way,

1263
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 5: and speaking of the Greeks. The derivation of the word

1264
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 5: asparagus also gives us some idea of its early history.

1265
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 5: So asparagus was first cultivated some people think around twenty

1266
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 5: five hundred years ago in Greece, and this is significant

1267
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 5: because the word asparagus is a Greek word which means

1268
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 5: stock or shoot, and so it makes sense that the

1269
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 5: word is rooted in ancient Greek. But that word in

1270
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 5: ancient Greek is actually aspharagos, and it can be identified

1271
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 5: in various literature with two meanings. The first is found

1272
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 5: in Homer's Iliad, and it is used in this context

1273
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 5: to mean throat or gullet. The second place it's found,

1274
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 5: it's referred to as the edible shoots of stone or spirite.

1275
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 5: The Greeks believed asparagus was an herbal medicine, which, among

1276
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 5: other things, would cure toothaches and prevent beastings. We have

1277
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 5: seen reference to the fact that at one point this

1278
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 5: Greek word refer to the young edible shoots of any

1279
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 5: plant that shoots up from the earth, but we cannot

1280
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 5: verify this fact. So maybe in the area of ancient

1281
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 5: Greece known as Biotia, historians say that quote. After veiling

1282
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 5: the bride, they would put on her head a chaplet

1283
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 5: of asparagus. For this plant yields the finest flavored fruit

1284
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 5: from the roughest thorns. So the bride will provide him

1285
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 5: who does not run away or feel annoyed at her

1286
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 5: first display of peevishness or unpleasantness, a docile and sweet

1287
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 5: life together.

1288
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, feminism alive. Well, yeah, I didn't know I

1289
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 4: was going to be suggesting an anti woke vegetable.

1290
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 5: I mean, it's a little bit of Returney.

1291
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 4: You don't have to be anti woke asparagus.

1292
01:04:57,160 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 5: No, you don't. You don't. Now, it's it's come a

1293
01:04:59,000 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 5: long way.

1294
01:04:59,560 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 4: It's come.

1295
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 5: Let's take back asparagus.

1296
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 4: We'll start there. It's like you have small steps.

1297
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 5: Other ancient cultures that apparently were obsessed with asparagus. The

1298
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 5: asparagus plant appeared in an Egyptian freeze about five thousand

1299
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:22,240
Speaker 5: years ago, with Queen Nefertidi allegedly an asparagus fan. Archaeologists

1300
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 5: found traces of asparagus on dishware when they were excavating

1301
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 5: the Pyramid of Sakara, along with other coveted foods like

1302
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 5: figs and melons. Apparently, in the Egyptian culture, this vegtiable

1303
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 5: was considered sacred and use in religious ceremonies, and then

1304
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 5: in ancient China, honored guests were treated upon their arrivals

1305
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 5: with an asparagus foot bath.

1306
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 3: Don't either.

1307
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 5: Its uses are renowned and wide. About two thousand years ago,

1308
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 5: a poet in Latin language prose writer and Platonist philosopher

1309
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 5: named a Pelais fell in love with a well the

1310
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 5: widow named Pundentilla. Knowing he needed to pull out all

1311
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 5: the stops to get her, he wooed her with a

1312
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 5: special dish that contained asparagus along with crabtails, fish eggs,

1313
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 5: bird's tongue, and dove blood. He was accused of using

1314
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 5: magic charms to win her heart, and even though he

1315
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 5: successfully defended himself against his accusations, through this story we

1316
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 5: can clearly see there is certainly something magical about asparagus.

1317
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm concerned about crabtail.

1318
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1319
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 5: As I read that, I was like, as I read that,

1320
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 5: I was like, that's not a thing, But maybe it

1321
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 5: used to be. You know it, I'll be my next episode. Yeah,

1322
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 5: maybe that, maybe that's the case. Basically, a seafood little

1323
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 5: guy with fish eggs and crab also bird's tongue and

1324
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 5: dove blood.

1325
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a bit weighed. He loves me on that,

1326
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 4: to be honest.

1327
01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, romantic.

1328
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've assumed. Coming to the asparagus recipe section, not

1329
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 4: yet later in the podcast, I will let you proceed.

1330
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 5: Let me just assume through the rest of us really quick.

1331
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 5: When Emperor Charles the fifth of the powerful Habsburg Empire,

1332
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 5: decided to visit Rome, and he was live between fifteen

1333
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 5: hundred and fifteen fifty eight, he visited Rome without warning

1334
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 5: any one of his arrival. A sense of panic ensued

1335
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 5: because the emperor had arrived during a time of fasting.

1336
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 5: One clever cardinal sent cooks to work in creating three

1337
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 5: different asparagus recipes. They set the plates on perfumed cloths

1338
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 5: and offered the emperor three exquisite wines. He was said

1339
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 5: to praise the delicacies, and he was offered for years

1340
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 5: to come. And so for centuries people have talked about asparagus,

1341
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 5: and they've also included asparagus in their Eastern dinners because

1342
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 5: of its fast growth in the spring and how this

1343
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 5: can symbolize resurrection. The book quote a Curious History of

1344
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 5: Vegetables by Wolf D. Storl has numerous asparagus anecdotes to

1345
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:04,920
Speaker 5: enjoy if you're into that sort of thing, and also

1346
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 5: contains this quote by modern day plant experts Fritz Martin Engel.

1347
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 5: And this quote effectively sums up the types of people

1348
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 5: who have appreciated asparagus over the centuries. Quote pharaohs, emperors, kings,

1349
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 5: generals and great spiritual leaders, princely poets like Gota and

1350
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 5: gormands like Brelant severan, all of them ate and eat

1351
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 5: asparagus with great enthusiasm. Let's get into the word. As

1352
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 5: I mentioned earlier, it comes from the Greek word asparagos.

1353
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,840
Speaker 5: Gos is the end of that. So the word asparagus

1354
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 5: was eventually developed into the word asparagus in classical Latin,

1355
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 5: but then it was shortened to sparagus without the A

1356
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 5: in medieval Latin. According to the World of Wide Words,

1357
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 5: it first appeared in English around one thousand a d.

1358
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 5: And then by the sixteenth century it was commonly referred

1359
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 5: to an English as sperrich or sparage. At this point

1360
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 5: in time, similar to other English language developments, there was

1361
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 5: a reversion back to classical Latin roots that was encouraged

1362
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 5: by academics and herbalists, so asparagus came back into use

1363
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 5: with the A, but when it came to common use,

1364
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 5: the A was still dropped, and people called it asparagus, sparrograss, sparrowgrass,

1365
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 5: and then also just grass, which was another shortening that

1366
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:22,839
Speaker 5: people still use today. After the demise of the Roman Empire,

1367
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:25,600
Speaker 5: little is heard of regarding the history of asparagus for

1368
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 5: a while, but evidence suggests that asparagus was being grown

1369
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 5: in French monasteries in fourteen fifty nine, but then it's

1370
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 5: unheard of in England or Germany until the mid fifteen hundreds.

1371
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 5: By the sixteenth century, asparagus starts to appear in history

1372
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 5: books again, where a gained popularity in France and England.

1373
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 5: From there, the early colonists brought it to America. The

1374
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 5: French were the main exports of the crop at the time,

1375
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 5: and if you wanted to please the Son King aka

1376
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 5: King Louis the fourteenth of France, you can bring his

1377
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:02,679
Speaker 5: second wife, Madame de Matin sorry a new asparagus recipe,

1378
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 5: and apparently that was very pleasing to him. She gathered

1379
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 5: them into a book and asparagus soup a la matinan

1380
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 5: is still prized today. Asparagus is also because of this

1381
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 5: called food of the Kings, and kinglu With the fourteenth

1382
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:20,480
Speaker 5: was so fond of asparagus that he ordered special greenhouses

1383
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 5: built so we can enjoy asparagus all year round.

1384
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 4: Me and Louis the fourteenth just cometic on how me

1385
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 4: and Louis the fourteenth. Yeah, same dude, many ways love

1386
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 4: get asparagus.

1387
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 5: Res Oh you were like handshaking yourself.

1388
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did not catch that. Yeah, got it.

1389
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 5: The medicinal virtues that are attributed to asparagus are a

1390
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 5: wide range. The roots, sprouts, and seeds were used as medicine.

1391
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:49,160
Speaker 5: The fresh roots are a diuretic. A syrup made from

1392
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 5: the young shoots, and an extract of the roots has

1393
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 5: been recommended as a sedative in heart issues. Among Greeks

1394
01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 5: and Romans. It is one of the oldest and most

1395
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 5: valued medicines. It was believed that if a person anointed

1396
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 5: himself with a liniment or liquid medicine made of asparagus

1397
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 5: and oil, that bees would not approach or sting him.

1398
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 5: I mentioned this kind of briefly earlier, but that's.

1399
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 2: How you do it.

1400
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 5: Don't get stung by a bee, coat yourself with asparagus juice.

1401
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 5: It was also believed that if the root is put

1402
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 5: on a tooth that aches violently, it causes it to

1403
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 5: fall out without any pain if you want that to happen.

1404
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 5: But how did the asparagus cross the Atlantic? There is

1405
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 5: little evidence of when exactly asparagus migrate over to the Americas,

1406
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 5: and again it's assumed that settlers brought it over along

1407
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 5: with other vegetables at the time. It's believed that in

1408
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 5: the seventeen hundreds it was planted initially in New England,

1409
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 5: and then by the eighteen fifties it had found its

1410
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 5: way to North California. There is early evidence, based on

1411
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 5: seed catalogs, of the crop being sold on a commercial

1412
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 5: level in the early eighteenth century in eastern parts of

1413
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 5: the country. While asparagus, as we mentioned earlier is a

1414
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 5: thing and it's seen as early as the nineteenth century,

1415
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 5: it can be growing along the East Coast in scattered

1416
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 5: locations and across temperate North America, and apparently thirty six

1417
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:10,679
Speaker 5: states have reported to have wild asparagus. Another kingly reference

1418
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:14,560
Speaker 5: of asparagus is apparently in Germany. Asparagus was called Spargl.

1419
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:19,520
Speaker 5: Spargol took cold in Germany around Stuttgart in the sixteenth century,

1420
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 5: and around the same time it was already being taking

1421
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 5: off from the UK. Initially, it was grown exclusively for

1422
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 5: the royal court, earning its nickname connexumus muse. Connexum muse

1423
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 5: it basically means royal vegetable. And there are two primary

1424
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:43,599
Speaker 5: growing regions in Germany where asparagus is in abundance. One

1425
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 5: of them is Schwitzwingen and it's where Karl Theodore, Prince elector,

1426
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 5: started a green asparagus growing competition among the princes in

1427
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 5: the seventeenth century, and then the other region, Schrobenhausen. It's

1428
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:02,600
Speaker 5: also steeped in asparagus history and houses the European Asparagus Museum.

1429
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 5: That's a thing, an asparagus museum. You know what else

1430
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 5: might have a museum. All of these ads one day

1431
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:26,839
Speaker 5: probably not buy what's in city, dads, and we're back, Okay, James.

1432
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:27,719
Speaker 4: I do think it's.

1433
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 5: Fairly interesting that there's an asparagus museum in Europe. But

1434
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 5: I also think it's interesting that you literally grew up

1435
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 5: in a town that have an asparagus mascot can you

1436
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 5: please explain this to me as someone who does not

1437
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 5: know what that means?

1438
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:43,840
Speaker 4: I can I can explain a little bit of the

1439
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 4: asparagus mascot. So I live in at Evesham when I

1440
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 4: grew up. Evesham of course give its name to the

1441
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 4: veyl Avivsham, which is the area where asparagus. It was

1442
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:58,360
Speaker 4: actually the last British product to get a protected origin

1443
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:04,240
Speaker 4: status from the European Union before Britain terminally fucked its

1444
01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 4: economy by leaving the European Union. And so it's this

1445
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 4: area around the velevition. You can't call it relevition asparagus

1446
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,679
Speaker 4: unless from Elvisham. I've just learned that the little purple

1447
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 4: tips on the spears, that's not normal. Apparently that's just

1448
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 4: an evel Aviv Sham.

1449
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 5: So that's a place. But I understand it's BRITI that's.

1450
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 4: Why it's in Worcestershire. So not not made up, you

1451
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 4: just uh, just it's Worcestershire. By the way, is how

1452
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 4: you pronounce Workshire. No people fucking But it's one of

1453
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:36,720
Speaker 4: those words like it is.

1454
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 5: I didn't actually think that was what it was called,

1455
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:41,480
Speaker 5: but I would actually maybe mispronounce.

1456
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 7: Probably.

1457
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems like one of those words that really

1458
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 4: flummocks is the American mind. So yeah, I grew up

1459
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 4: nevel Avievsham and in Develovievshim we grow a lot of

1460
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 4: asparagus and very proud of it. So we have an

1461
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 4: asparagus festival if you want to get really like hokey

1462
01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:01,200
Speaker 4: and English, which people in England do be loving to do,

1463
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,640
Speaker 4: especially people of a certain ethnicity that like, do you

1464
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 4: generally pick asparagus from Saint George's Day to Midsummer's Day?

1465
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 3: Right?

1466
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:14,600
Speaker 4: Saint George is the patrons of England and Catalonia. So

1467
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 4: if you want to get really sort of parochial about it,

1468
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 4: you can get a little nationalistic on the asparagus. I

1469
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 4: think most people don't. But it started in Evesham. Evesham

1470
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 4: used to have an asparagus festival. We have little mascot

1471
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 4: right dressed as and asparagus as.

1472
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:31,519
Speaker 5: You do, like literally a man in an asparagus outfit,

1473
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:32,719
Speaker 5: like walking around.

1474
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 4: Yeah. So there have been two generations. The first one

1475
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 4: I think we've mentioned the purple tips and that it

1476
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 4: just looks like a dick. He looked a lot like

1477
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 4: a day he looked like a ganger and us penis, I.

1478
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 5: Mean fertility was known for that.

1479
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:55,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, this one didn't look fertile. This one look best avoided.

1480
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 4: If I'm honest, I looked like they retired him in

1481
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 4: two thousand and they and we're faced in with gusty

1482
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:05,520
Speaker 4: asparagus man who, if I mines, doesn't look as asparagusy

1483
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 4: because they've given him sort of a flower tip, like.

1484
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 5: A broccoli looking thing.

1485
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, it looks a bit like a wheat, kind of weedy,

1486
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 4: kind of mapley. It's not full asparagus. There's also an

1487
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:21,560
Speaker 4: asparagus fairy. I've seen. I've not personally come across the

1488
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 4: asparagus fairy, but I've seen that into fairy. Yeah, you

1489
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:26,720
Speaker 4: want to let me disdrop this in the Yeah, he

1490
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 4: told me about the fucking fairy. It's just a non

1491
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:31,599
Speaker 4: stop learning journey for hery.

1492
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:35,439
Speaker 5: Insane first the stained glass, but I still can throughout

1493
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:35,720
Speaker 5: the thing.

1494
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 4: Wow, yeah y'all what? Yeah, Well, maybe we'll make this

1495
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 4: the the.

1496
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 3: Image for the image.

1497
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 5: This is a great image.

1498
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 4: It's a classic image. Yes, you've got a man dressed

1499
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 4: as King Saint George, not King George.

1500
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:53,640
Speaker 5: Different faces onto that.

1501
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, that would be great it it'll be highly entertaining.

1502
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 4: So yeah, you can, you can go now. I think

1503
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:04,080
Speaker 4: it's in Bredford, yet it is in Breadforton where you

1504
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 4: can have the Asparagus Festival. And what the festival is

1505
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:09,639
Speaker 4: is like the first auction of asparagus, right, and then

1506
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,800
Speaker 4: they'll auction that off for a local cause. Normally the

1507
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:16,559
Speaker 4: first you know, the first full bundle of asparagus verus

1508
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,840
Speaker 4: round it's called, and that will immediately get brought up

1509
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:22,679
Speaker 4: by someone. People buy hundreds of pounds for it. Wow,

1510
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 4: and then they rush it off to their restaurant in London, right,

1511
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 4: and they make it for their fancy people to pay

1512
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 4: fancy money for this fancy vegetable. Famously, Famously, I perhaps

1513
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 4: overstated that Gus the Asparagus Man was refused entry to

1514
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 4: the Houses of Parliament in the United Kingdom maybe maybe

1515
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,640
Speaker 4: ten fifteen years ago now because it's costume primented a

1516
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:44,479
Speaker 4: security risk. Wow.

1517
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 5: Wait okay, as someone who's had asparagus in an asparagus town,

1518
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 5: and also here is there a difference in taste?

1519
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:56,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Fresh asparagus is a lot better

1520
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:00,080
Speaker 4: when you get it in American shops. It's very woody like.

1521
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 4: It doesn't have that I would describe raw asparagus where

1522
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 4: it's fresh. You know when you get peas and you've

1523
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:08,679
Speaker 4: grown peas, you're having the peas. Yeah, so it has that. Yeah,

1524
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 4: love a fresh pea. So it's got that kind of

1525
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 4: you can take that however you want. It's got that

1526
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 4: kind of pea freshness and sweetness to it.

1527
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 5: That's really good.

1528
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:24,640
Speaker 4: It is really good, Scharene. That's why we have a

1529
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 4: whole thing about it.

1530
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:27,040
Speaker 5: How good asparagu It's not gonna lie.

1531
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 4: I'm going to grow some.

1532
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:29,479
Speaker 5: I don't seek it out.

1533
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:32,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll go on a world tour. We'll doe there'll

1534
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 4: be a nice combination. Actually, you're going to see chin asparagus.

1535
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:37,479
Speaker 4: So what you're doing with the asparagus, right, you cut

1536
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:39,320
Speaker 4: it and you just get its hand cut right. You're

1537
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 4: not going through like a combine harvester to do this.

1538
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 4: You're going through the little knife, serrated knife sharp on

1539
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:46,560
Speaker 4: the back side. You just cutting the stalks and you

1540
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 4: immediately you level them off right at the base, so

1541
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:52,679
Speaker 4: you sort of so that the point to tips are level,

1542
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:54,600
Speaker 4: and then you just cut across the base. So some

1543
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:55,960
Speaker 4: of them are going to have more of the woody

1544
01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:59,280
Speaker 4: white bass than others. The parts the green part has

1545
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:01,000
Speaker 4: been above. The toy on in the white puts below

1546
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 4: right right. So you're doing them. You get you're around

1547
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 4: or you get your have many sparagus, you're getting right.

1548
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:09,439
Speaker 4: You get it very fresh. Often when at least when

1549
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:10,680
Speaker 4: we were buy it, we would just buy it like

1550
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:12,559
Speaker 4: from farm shops or by the side of the road.

1551
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 4: We never grew it because it was just like a

1552
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:17,400
Speaker 4: lot You could get a lot more from just doing

1553
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:21,120
Speaker 4: other vegetables. But you'd buy it the day it was harvested,

1554
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 4: and then you drive it home immediately put it into

1555
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 4: boiling water just briefly, right, and then you pop it

1556
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 4: out and you don't need to cook it for very

1557
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 4: long if it's good, if you don't want to cook

1558
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 4: it for very long rate, just just softening it a

1559
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 4: little bit. And then if you have it with there's

1560
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:37,720
Speaker 4: original way to have it. It's with butter, which kind

1561
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:41,639
Speaker 4: of you know, does away with the cereal cholesterol benefit.

1562
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 4: Nice to dip in a in a soft.

1563
01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:45,840
Speaker 5: Boiled and curious. I mean, the health stuff was just

1564
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,560
Speaker 5: like a fun ti bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's do

1565
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 5: you know how you want?

1566
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, have it. However, you want dip it in a

1567
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 4: in a soft boiled egg where you were you boil

1568
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:56,680
Speaker 4: the egg, but the yolk is still run dip the

1569
01:19:56,720 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 4: asparagusy in Yeah, never even part of that cambo. Yeah,

1570
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 4: it's a good one. It's lots of uh what's a

1571
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:06,400
Speaker 4: good childhood memories or asparagus in the egg? Yeah, lots

1572
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 4: of fun ways to eat it. Other things about the

1573
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 4: vale of vives from asparagus. Yeah, he Gussy the asparagus man.

1574
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:14,000
Speaker 4: He visited the I.

1575
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 5: Want to repeat that. He's called Gus. Sorry, Gus the

1576
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:18,000
Speaker 5: asparagus man.

1577
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 4: Sorry, he visited the European Parliament where he read and

1578
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 4: there is uh true. Will I see a video of this? Actually, Sreen,

1579
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 4: I think it would be good for you.

1580
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:27,680
Speaker 5: Oh gosh, So.

1581
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:30,080
Speaker 4: Here's a video of Gusty asparagus man in the European

1582
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 4: Parliament reading a poem. England is crazy one of them

1583
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 4: more like pro oh god, yeah, now you want to

1584
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:39,240
Speaker 4: listen to it as well.

1585
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 5: The Great and Noble Asparagus.

1586
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:46,720
Speaker 4: Sorry, I'm sorry he's doing it again. He's reading a

1587
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 4: poem about asparagus, that's correct.

1588
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:50,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1589
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:51,439
Speaker 7: Uh.

1590
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:54,360
Speaker 4: And then he's making a joke about about cider another

1591
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,599
Speaker 4: great more of a Hereford product than another great local product.

1592
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, I come from the home home of

1593
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 4: Gussie asparagus man. I've enjoyed many many asparaguy. It's nice

1594
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:10,080
Speaker 4: when we have really miserable like January, February even into

1595
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,920
Speaker 4: March in the UK is miserable. Like we get much

1596
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:16,639
Speaker 4: shorter days, right because a bit of being further north,

1597
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 4: it rains a lot, Like we don't get winters like

1598
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:23,160
Speaker 4: American cold places where you get like dry or like

1599
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 4: snowy kind of winters. We just get like right around

1600
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 4: freezing and raining a lot of the time, which is

1601
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 4: the worst weather that is possible to have. And it's

1602
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:35,600
Speaker 4: just fucking miserable. So like when you're having the asparagus,

1603
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:38,360
Speaker 4: it's like a nice sign days. Our summer days are

1604
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 4: really long as well, so you're getting these nice long

1605
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:44,240
Speaker 4: summer days. You're like starting to get like it comes

1606
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:47,160
Speaker 4: after what they call the hungry gap, right that time

1607
01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 4: in like February March where you're not getting as many

1608
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:51,639
Speaker 4: of your fresh vegetables sort of the time when you're

1609
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:54,680
Speaker 4: not really harvesting very much, so you've only got like

1610
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 4: your storage stuff, right, your apples and potatoes, and so

1611
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 4: after that you get your asparagus. It's the start of

1612
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,439
Speaker 4: your spring vege. So it's a nice little, nice little

1613
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 4: celebration of springtime.

1614
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I didn't know anything about asparagus other

1615
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 5: than it made your pea smell until this episode.

1616
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:13,760
Speaker 4: Son't even make your pea smell. Would say, is that

1617
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:14,720
Speaker 4: the asparagene.

1618
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 5: Well, okay, asparagus is your pea smell because what asparagus

1619
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:26,760
Speaker 5: is digested, asparagustic acid gets broken down into sulfur containing byproducts,

1620
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:30,519
Speaker 5: and sulfur smells like eggs and also apparently can smell

1621
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 5: like pea because sulfur in general is not pleasant to

1622
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 5: the smell. And then when you peet, these byproducts evaporate

1623
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 5: almost immediately, and this is what you this is what

1624
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 5: causes you to smell that very unpleasant scent.

1625
01:22:42,080 --> 01:22:45,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, you could tell if someone's find out the asparagus.

1626
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 5: I thought the answer is usually sulfur when it comes

1627
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:49,360
Speaker 5: to food and smells.

1628
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:51,400
Speaker 4: Yeah it is. Yeah, bad eggs too.

1629
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1630
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:55,920
Speaker 5: I want to end this episode with just a tale

1631
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 5: of a town in the US where it had their

1632
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 5: of king asparagus.

1633
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:03,880
Speaker 4: I want to just wow, Okay, I want to talk

1634
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:04,840
Speaker 4: about this for a moment.

1635
01:23:05,560 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 5: It was once the biggest US producers of asparagus. Less

1636
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:12,440
Speaker 5: than a century ago, the town of Aiken, South Carolina,

1637
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 5: was known as one of the asparagus capitals of the US.

1638
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 5: From the mid eighteenth through the mid twentieth centuries, cotton

1639
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:24,759
Speaker 5: was the South's predominant crop, and Aichen was no exception

1640
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 5: to this. Just before the Civil War, cotton comprised nearly

1641
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 5: sixty percent of all American exports. The phrase King Cotton

1642
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:35,400
Speaker 5: which was made famous by then Senator and then future

1643
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:39,839
Speaker 5: Governor James Henry Hammond. He implied that the European industry

1644
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:45,160
Speaker 5: depended heavily on Southern cotton. He owned the Redcliffe Plantation

1645
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:50,120
Speaker 5: in Beach Island, Aikin County. Enslaved people obviously provided the

1646
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:53,719
Speaker 5: labor for cotton cultivation, and so him, along with scores

1647
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:56,759
Speaker 5: of other plantation owners. He hoped that buyers of Southern

1648
01:23:56,840 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 5: cotton would fight against the blockade enacted by Lincoln's federal forces,

1649
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:05,120
Speaker 5: and Southerners, because of this, were certain that their cotton

1650
01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 5: exports were so crucial that Europeans would surely back the

1651
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 5: South in the event of a Civil war. Spoiler alert

1652
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:16,840
Speaker 5: that did not happen, and then by eighteen sixty five,

1653
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:19,880
Speaker 5: the outcome of the Civil War had planters looking at

1654
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:23,320
Speaker 5: their commercial ventures in a new way. Farmers broke their

1655
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:25,960
Speaker 5: dependence on cotton, and they desperately tried to find and

1656
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:30,400
Speaker 5: locate another king crop. A variety of crops could thrive

1657
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:34,240
Speaker 5: in the warm, sandy soil of Achen. The first reference

1658
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:37,160
Speaker 5: to asparagus being grown as a commercial crop in South

1659
01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 5: Carolina can be found in a nineteen oh three pamphlet

1660
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:46,320
Speaker 5: called Asparagus Its Culture for Home and for Market. According

1661
01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:49,640
Speaker 5: to the pamphlet, the crop was first grown commercially in Charleston,

1662
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 5: where farmers produced a specific variety called palmetto. It was

1663
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 5: cultivated especially to flourish in the southern climate, and soon

1664
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:02,679
Speaker 5: this specialized variety spread into a Bacon, Williston, and Bamberg counties.

1665
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:07,880
Speaker 5: By nineteen eighteen, the Clemson University Department of Agricultural Economics

1666
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:11,760
Speaker 5: reported that the state had about eleven hundred acres of

1667
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 5: asparagus under cultivation. Fast forward to nineteen thirty seven, this

1668
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 5: number increased to eighty seven hundred acres. So area residents

1669
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 5: enjoyed their share of fresh asparagus, but most of it

1670
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:26,360
Speaker 5: was sent to New York City, Philadelphia, and Washington, d c.

1671
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:30,280
Speaker 5: From the nineteen twenties through the mid nineteen fifties, asparagus

1672
01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:34,400
Speaker 5: was gathered daily and shipped by train to its northern destinations.

1673
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:39,040
Speaker 5: Shippers often wrapped the delicate spears and Spanish moss gathered

1674
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 5: from the live oak trees that abounded the city. The

1675
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 5: crop flourished commercially for almost thirty years until production slowed

1676
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:50,200
Speaker 5: down in nineteen fifty three. World War II may have

1677
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:53,479
Speaker 5: lessened the workforce available to farm the crop, or perhaps

1678
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 5: the marketing success from the California competitors was more effective

1679
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:00,759
Speaker 5: than South Carolina's. It is also possible let the varieties

1680
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 5: grow an Achen and the surrounding areas were more susceptible

1681
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 5: to diseases that weakened the crops, and so although several

1682
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:13,320
Speaker 5: farms near Achen still grow asparagus, according to aichinregional dot com,

1683
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:16,360
Speaker 5: the reign of King Asparagus is over.

1684
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 2: It's sad.

1685
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:21,880
Speaker 4: Yeah not here, still king in my heart.

1686
01:26:22,280 --> 01:26:25,760
Speaker 5: I just thought that was a funny little tail, but yeah,

1687
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:32,120
Speaker 5: that's asparagus for you. Thank you, James for motivating this knowledge.

1688
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:35,120
Speaker 4: That I now have it's okay. Take that, carry that

1689
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:37,360
Speaker 4: with you for the rest of your life. Use it wisely.

1690
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 5: Thank you, and yeah, that's this episode of it could

1691
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:45,360
Speaker 5: happen here Until next time, I don't.

1692
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:47,400
Speaker 3: Know to sleep.

1693
01:26:47,920 --> 01:27:04,760
Speaker 8: Bye, hello, and welcome back to it could happen here.

1694
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 8: I'm your occasional host, Molly Conger, and it's just me today.

1695
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:13,040
Speaker 8: But I've got a weird one for you now. I

1696
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 8: don't know if you remember, but a few months ago

1697
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:17,759
Speaker 8: I did an episode about a ring of Hitler loving

1698
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:21,759
Speaker 8: zoom bombers running a national campaign to disrupt public meetings.

1699
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:25,639
Speaker 8: Those guys were mostly members of the Goyam Defense League,

1700
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:28,240
Speaker 8: an anti Semitic group of freaks who just love getting

1701
01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:31,280
Speaker 8: a rise out of people. They were calling themselves the

1702
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 8: City Council Death Squad, and they've disrupted hundreds of virtual

1703
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 8: public meetings from coast to coast over the last year,

1704
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 8: everything from zoning boards in New Jersey to city council

1705
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:44,560
Speaker 8: meetings in California, even dipping their toe into messing with

1706
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:48,760
Speaker 8: online meetings of alcoholics anonymous. They mostly seem motivated by

1707
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:51,639
Speaker 8: their insatiable need to force strangers to hear them say

1708
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:54,080
Speaker 8: the N word. But I do think they understand that

1709
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:58,240
Speaker 8: their behavior limits people's access to local government. Many of

1710
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:01,360
Speaker 8: the cities they targeted responded by ending virtual participation in

1711
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 8: government meetings. That means fewer people participate. It's harder to

1712
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:08,559
Speaker 8: engage with local government, and people just generally feel less

1713
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:11,200
Speaker 8: safe and less motivated to pursue the kinds of redress

1714
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 8: available to them through local democracy. And I'm glad we

1715
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:16,920
Speaker 8: did the episode. I heard from people in maybe a

1716
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:19,280
Speaker 8: dozen cities all over the country who found the episode

1717
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 8: online when they were trying to figure out what the

1718
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:23,880
Speaker 8: hell happened at their own meeting and the guy's doing it.

1719
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,640
Speaker 8: Liked the episode so much that now they use my

1720
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 8: name when they call into meetings to scream slurs, which

1721
01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:32,800
Speaker 8: is a less positive outcome, But what can you do.

1722
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 8: I assume if the mayor of Redlands, California googles me,

1723
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:38,719
Speaker 8: he'll figure out I wasn't the one doing Holocaust denial

1724
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:42,080
Speaker 8: at his meeting. But overall, this seems like the kind

1725
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 8: of thing that will be prosecute able, especially considering we

1726
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:48,479
Speaker 8: know the real names of many of the group's ringleaders. Well,

1727
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 8: someone has finally been indicted for orchestrating hateful zoom bombing

1728
01:28:52,439 --> 01:28:56,760
Speaker 8: and virtual city council meetings. But it isn't them, It's

1729
01:28:56,840 --> 01:29:02,080
Speaker 8: something much, much weirder. Last month, FEDS unsealed an indictment

1730
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:05,320
Speaker 8: against a man named Mohammad al Hashemi. He's a Syrian

1731
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:10,000
Speaker 8: national from Albania currently living in England, and according to

1732
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:12,720
Speaker 8: the federal prosecutor, he was the mastermind behind a zoom

1733
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:15,200
Speaker 8: bombing ring that targeted the Fresno City Council in the

1734
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,519
Speaker 8: summer of twenty twenty. He's been charged with one count

1735
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 8: of engaging in repeated harassing communication, one count of engaging

1736
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:27,240
Speaker 8: in anonymous telecommunications harassment, three counts of a classic eighteen USC.

1737
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:31,760
Speaker 8: Eight seventy five C transmitting threatening communications, and one count

1738
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:35,280
Speaker 8: of conspiracy for doing all of the above. Right, So

1739
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 8: there's a conspiracy, and then those other charges represent the

1740
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:43,880
Speaker 8: over acts of that conspiracy. Now, again, I'm not a lawyer.

1741
01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 8: I'll tell you that every time. I don't know all

1742
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:49,439
Speaker 8: the laws, and so this is the first time I'm

1743
01:29:49,479 --> 01:29:53,200
Speaker 8: realizing that harassing someone by phone is a federal crime.

1744
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:55,719
Speaker 8: I mean, it makes sense, right, of course, that's illegal

1745
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:58,840
Speaker 8: at the federal level too. I just didn't think about

1746
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:00,679
Speaker 8: that the last time we were talking about zoom bombing.

1747
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,160
Speaker 8: I mean, the obvious charge is interstate threats. If you

1748
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:05,479
Speaker 8: make a threat using a phone, the internet, or the mail,

1749
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:09,519
Speaker 8: that's federal territory. But prosecutors are sometimes a little gun

1750
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:13,080
Speaker 8: shy about threats. They want a slam dunk case. They

1751
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:16,880
Speaker 8: want a true threat, right, something that is undeniably an

1752
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:19,840
Speaker 8: actual threat, before they'll bring a case like that. So

1753
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 8: I thought they'd have to get a little creative if

1754
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 8: they wanted to indict zoom bombers. But if you're just

1755
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:29,840
Speaker 8: talking about harassing phone calls, it's actually pretty straightforward to

1756
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:32,840
Speaker 8: bring a federal case against the guys doing this. So

1757
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:34,920
Speaker 8: two of the charges of the indictment are for different

1758
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:38,600
Speaker 8: subsections of forty seven USC. Two twenty three Obscene or

1759
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 8: harassing phone calls. Subsection A one C is making a

1760
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:46,680
Speaker 8: telephone call or utilizing a telecommunications device, right, So that

1761
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:48,720
Speaker 8: means it doesn't have to be a literal telephone. It

1762
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:50,400
Speaker 8: can be a zoom call. It can be in any

1763
01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:54,040
Speaker 8: kind of telecommunications device like text message, et cetera. Whether

1764
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:57,680
Speaker 8: or not conversation or communication ensues, which means you know,

1765
01:30:57,800 --> 01:30:59,519
Speaker 8: repeated harassing hang up calls.

1766
01:30:59,560 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 7: Count two.

1767
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:03,360
Speaker 8: You don't even have to say anything without disclosing his

1768
01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:06,160
Speaker 8: identity and with the intent to abuse, threatn or harass

1769
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:09,880
Speaker 8: a specific person, So this subsection is specific to the

1770
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:13,080
Speaker 8: fact that they were using fake names. And then subsection

1771
01:31:13,200 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 8: A one E is making repeated telephone calls or repeatedly

1772
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:21,000
Speaker 8: initiating communication with the telecommunications device during which conversation or

1773
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 8: communication ensues solely to harass any specific person. Both of

1774
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:28,000
Speaker 8: those counts carry a maximum sentence of two years, and

1775
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:31,200
Speaker 8: they're usually just punished with a fine, not that serious.

1776
01:31:31,720 --> 01:31:34,160
Speaker 8: The other counts are a little more serious. Interstate threatening

1777
01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 8: communications can get you up to five years per count,

1778
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:39,120
Speaker 8: and some of these calls had some pretty violent language.

1779
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:42,280
Speaker 8: I'm interested to see how they move forward with the threats,

1780
01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 8: though the actual intent or ability to carry out a

1781
01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:48,000
Speaker 8: threat doesn't necessarily matter if the person the threat was

1782
01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 8: made to was in reasonable fear from it, but I'm

1783
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:52,640
Speaker 8: sure we'll see It argued that he was in Albania

1784
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:55,080
Speaker 8: he never planned to go to Fresno to hurt people.

1785
01:31:55,880 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 8: The obvious counter to that, though, is that he did

1786
01:31:58,120 --> 01:32:00,400
Speaker 8: literally say he was in Fresno, and there was no

1787
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 8: obvious indication to the victims that that wasn't true, and

1788
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:07,280
Speaker 8: he's also charged with conspiracy. The indictment refers multiple times

1789
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:10,400
Speaker 8: to unnamed co conspirators, so this isn't just one guy

1790
01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:13,560
Speaker 8: making racist, praying phone calls. This is an organized and

1791
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:16,639
Speaker 8: intentional conspiracy to engage in harassment and threats.

1792
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 4: That conspiracy is a little grim.

1793
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 8: The FBI in the UK's Metropolitan Police Force did find

1794
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:27,200
Speaker 8: an interview at least nine members of the group they're

1795
01:32:27,200 --> 01:32:30,559
Speaker 8: saying Alhacemi was leading, and the reason they aren't named

1796
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:34,600
Speaker 8: is because they are children. The children interviewed by the

1797
01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:37,639
Speaker 8: FBI had pretty consistent accounts. Once there was a federal

1798
01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:39,720
Speaker 8: agent in their living room telling their mom about the

1799
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:43,720
Speaker 8: Albanian Nazi they'd been chatting with on roadblocks. Okay, not

1800
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:47,680
Speaker 8: exactly roadblocks, that's a little hyperbolic, but the raids were

1801
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:50,720
Speaker 8: coordinated on a platform called Gilded, which is kind of

1802
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:53,560
Speaker 8: like Discord and is owned by the same company as Roadblocks,

1803
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:57,280
Speaker 8: so it's mostly used by gamers to talk about gaming,

1804
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:00,639
Speaker 8: but also apparently for doing federal crimes. But the kids

1805
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:04,040
Speaker 8: all said the group's leaders were users named Encino. That's

1806
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:08,240
Speaker 8: i ns e E n O, not in Sino like Incino.

1807
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:12,360
Speaker 8: Man the poly Shore movie and Sapper. Many of the

1808
01:33:12,479 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 8: kids correctly ascertained that Encino, the user FEDS have identified

1809
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:19,400
Speaker 8: as Al Hashemi, was older than they were and European,

1810
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:22,920
Speaker 8: but spoke English very well. I went back and pulled

1811
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:25,400
Speaker 8: the public access TV recordings of some of those meetings

1812
01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 8: and listened to the calls attributed to Alhachemi, and he

1813
01:33:28,360 --> 01:33:30,880
Speaker 8: really doesn't have an accent that I could hear. You know,

1814
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:32,880
Speaker 8: you don't got a hand it to him or anything.

1815
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:35,240
Speaker 8: But he does say the N word like a red

1816
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:38,759
Speaker 8: blooded American racist, so I guess he had some practice.

1817
01:33:39,640 --> 01:33:42,280
Speaker 8: The kid, interviewed by the Metropolitan Police Service at his parents'

1818
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:44,719
Speaker 8: house in London, said that Sapper was a college student

1819
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:47,640
Speaker 8: in the United Arab Emirates, although in the footnotes the

1820
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:50,800
Speaker 8: FBI agent indicates that actually Sapper is in Jordan, but

1821
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:54,240
Speaker 8: you know, close enough for a teenager. I can't find

1822
01:33:54,280 --> 01:33:56,839
Speaker 8: any information about whether or not charges are being pursued

1823
01:33:56,840 --> 01:33:59,280
Speaker 8: against that user, either in the US or in Jordan.

1824
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:02,280
Speaker 8: He isn't identified by name at all, but he does

1825
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:05,799
Speaker 8: appear to be the only other adult discussed in that document.

1826
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,599
Speaker 8: The English teenager said Sapper loves spamming, the calls they

1827
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 8: raid with isis gore videos. The criminal complaint details seven

1828
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:16,320
Speaker 8: incidents of zoom raids in June and July of twenty

1829
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:19,040
Speaker 8: twenty five of which were meetings of the Presno City Council.

1830
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:22,880
Speaker 8: One was a Jewish religious service conducted by Zoom in Albuquerque,

1831
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:25,760
Speaker 8: New Mexico, and the other was some random couple's wedding

1832
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:29,439
Speaker 8: in upstate New York. But the incidents described in detail

1833
01:34:29,479 --> 01:34:31,960
Speaker 8: in the complaint are clearly not the only ones that happened,

1834
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:36,120
Speaker 8: just the only ones being charged at this time. When

1835
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:38,559
Speaker 8: FBI agents interviewed a thirteen year old boy in Oregon,

1836
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:41,000
Speaker 8: he told them the group's leader also enjoyed zoom bombing

1837
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:45,439
Speaker 8: parent teacher conferences, specifically at schools that had had past

1838
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 8: active shooter events. The boy said, Encino again, that's al Hachemi,

1839
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:53,679
Speaker 8: according to the complaint, loves to offend people and talks

1840
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:58,160
Speaker 8: about racist things more than anyone else. But you know

1841
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:02,959
Speaker 8: who doesn't love to offend people. The sponsors of this show.

1842
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 4: And we are back.

1843
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:12,559
Speaker 8: I hope you enjoyed those products and services. Hopefully none

1844
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:15,920
Speaker 8: of them were. Four online chat platforms where European neo

1845
01:35:15,960 --> 01:35:20,280
Speaker 8: Nazis are recruiting your kids, all right, So all these

1846
01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 8: criminal charges here are related to conduct that occurred in

1847
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:27,200
Speaker 8: the span of less than five weeks four full years ago.

1848
01:35:28,200 --> 01:35:30,400
Speaker 8: But for as long as it took to actually indict Alhacemi,

1849
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:33,000
Speaker 8: it looks like the FEDS acted pretty quickly. After the

1850
01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:35,640
Speaker 8: first few threats were made. They were sitting at the

1851
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:38,280
Speaker 8: dining room table talking to a kid identified as RB

1852
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:42,160
Speaker 8: by August twenty seventh, barely two months after the call started.

1853
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:45,760
Speaker 8: RB is described as a juvenile with a history of

1854
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 8: making threats who lives in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Obviously, it's

1855
01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:53,439
Speaker 8: impossible to identify this minor, and probably not a good

1856
01:35:53,479 --> 01:35:55,800
Speaker 8: idea to do even if I could, But I am

1857
01:35:55,920 --> 01:35:58,479
Speaker 8: dying to know what exactly that history of threats looks like.

1858
01:35:59,360 --> 01:36:01,040
Speaker 8: I found a couple of news stories in the year

1859
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:03,840
Speaker 8: or two before this about teens in the Spartanburg area

1860
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:06,840
Speaker 8: who'd been arrested for making threats. Now, Obviously, again, even

1861
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 8: in those news stories, if a miner is arrested and

1862
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:11,799
Speaker 8: are identified, so there's no way to sort of connect

1863
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:15,280
Speaker 8: these two unnamed teens. But I did find a story

1864
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:18,000
Speaker 8: about a ninth grader who posted a snapchat on the

1865
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:20,880
Speaker 8: day of the Parkland school shooting in twenty eighteen, I

1866
01:36:21,040 --> 01:36:23,400
Speaker 8: was a photo of the teenager holding a realistic fake

1867
01:36:23,479 --> 01:36:28,719
Speaker 8: gun with the caption round two of Florida tomorrow. Again,

1868
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:30,640
Speaker 8: it's impossible to say if there's any connection, but the

1869
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:35,280
Speaker 8: general age, location, and interest in school shootings definitely caught

1870
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:38,880
Speaker 8: my eye. Another member of the group, identified as a

1871
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:42,920
Speaker 8: miner named CG in North Caldwell, New Jersey, sometimes used

1872
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:46,080
Speaker 8: the name Adam Lanza during the zoom raids, an homage

1873
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:48,880
Speaker 8: to the Sandy Hook school shooter, and when the FBI

1874
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:51,680
Speaker 8: was chatting with RB on August twenty seventh, he told

1875
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:54,240
Speaker 8: him about another user in the discord who posted often

1876
01:36:54,280 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 8: about his desire to carry out a school shooting and

1877
01:36:57,120 --> 01:37:00,960
Speaker 8: wanting to kill a Few days after that, the FBI

1878
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:03,240
Speaker 8: agents were sitting down with that thirteen year old boy

1879
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:06,880
Speaker 8: and his parents in Oregon. That boy, identified as PM,

1880
01:37:07,160 --> 01:37:10,120
Speaker 8: told the agents that Encino wasn't just interested in zoom bombing,

1881
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:14,040
Speaker 8: but the group also dosed people, naming a bizarre list

1882
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:17,040
Speaker 8: of targets ranging from Jewish leaders to yoga teachers and

1883
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:21,160
Speaker 8: cooking classes. PM also told the agents that Encino had

1884
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:23,880
Speaker 8: docksed a former member of the group, a girl identified

1885
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:27,519
Speaker 8: in a footnote as LT, after a disagreement over whether

1886
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:29,639
Speaker 8: or not they should be using so many racial slurs

1887
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 8: in the prank phone calls. Now I know, I said

1888
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:35,879
Speaker 8: it wasn't possible or even advisable to try to identify

1889
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:40,439
Speaker 8: these miners, but it turns out it is possible, and

1890
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:41,719
Speaker 8: she's not a miner anymore.

1891
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:43,560
Speaker 7: I don't know.

1892
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:45,639
Speaker 8: Maybe the rule is if you're old enough to drive drunk,

1893
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:47,479
Speaker 8: you're old enough to get talked about on a podcast.

1894
01:37:47,640 --> 01:37:49,400
Speaker 8: She's got a court date coming up for a DUI

1895
01:37:49,479 --> 01:37:53,280
Speaker 8: arrest in April. The girl identified as LT was docked

1896
01:37:53,320 --> 01:37:55,519
Speaker 8: by the group's leader in July twenty twenty, when she

1897
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:58,360
Speaker 8: was just sixteen, and we only have that thirteen year

1898
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 8: old as firing school shooter's word for it as to

1899
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,800
Speaker 8: why she left the group. Maybe it is possible that

1900
01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:06,920
Speaker 8: she disagreed with the racial slur heavy call scripts, but

1901
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:09,320
Speaker 8: I don't think that's because she's not a huge fan

1902
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:12,599
Speaker 8: of racism. She shows up that same year in leaked

1903
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:17,440
Speaker 8: discord chats from the servers Groper Haven and Nick Fuentes Unofficial,

1904
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:21,799
Speaker 8: both servers for fans of Nick Quente's She identifies herself

1905
01:38:21,800 --> 01:38:25,960
Speaker 8: as a paleo conservative, Christian monarchist and claims to know

1906
01:38:26,080 --> 01:38:30,120
Speaker 8: Nick Quentez. Then another user asked her if she likes Nick.

1907
01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:34,280
Speaker 2: She says, yeah, he's cool, but she takes issue with

1908
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:34,799
Speaker 2: the fact.

1909
01:38:34,600 --> 01:38:36,800
Speaker 8: That he wants to marry a white woman because he is,

1910
01:38:37,120 --> 01:38:40,519
Speaker 8: in her eyes, not white, and says whites are better

1911
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:43,759
Speaker 8: than any other race and we need to stay inside

1912
01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:47,959
Speaker 8: of our own race. A few sort of vestigial stitches

1913
01:38:48,200 --> 01:38:51,439
Speaker 8: of videos with her now banned TikTok account show her

1914
01:38:51,479 --> 01:38:53,880
Speaker 8: in a Trump shirt and Maga hat giving the camera

1915
01:38:54,040 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 8: this weird Kubrick stare as. The text girls that think

1916
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:02,439
Speaker 8: communists should be jailed appears over her head. You know,

1917
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:06,719
Speaker 8: kids will be kids, right, Just classic kids stuff, wanting

1918
01:39:06,760 --> 01:39:09,960
Speaker 8: to imprison your political enemies and being really opposed to

1919
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:10,719
Speaker 8: race mixing.

1920
01:39:11,400 --> 01:39:11,559
Speaker 4: Well.

1921
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:14,000
Speaker 8: Last summer, she gave a speech about canceled culture to

1922
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:17,040
Speaker 8: the Burkes County Patriots, an anti government extremist group that

1923
01:39:17,120 --> 01:39:20,920
Speaker 8: sent charter buses to the insurrection, and public records show

1924
01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:23,600
Speaker 8: she received a stipend as a legislative intern at the

1925
01:39:23,640 --> 01:39:28,320
Speaker 8: Pennsylvania House of Representatives. The teenage Groper to legislative Aid

1926
01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:30,920
Speaker 8: pipeline is something that should concern us all a little

1927
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:34,360
Speaker 8: bit more. But doxing LT seems to have frightened some

1928
01:39:34,439 --> 01:39:37,240
Speaker 8: of the other kids. PM that's thirteen year old in

1929
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:39,439
Speaker 8: Oregon told agents he was worried the group would dox

1930
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:42,439
Speaker 8: him if he tried to leave BO. A minor in

1931
01:39:42,479 --> 01:39:45,240
Speaker 8: North Carolina told agents he believed in Sino had access

1932
01:39:45,280 --> 01:39:49,080
Speaker 8: to his computer by a spyware. AM, a seventeen year

1933
01:39:49,080 --> 01:39:51,920
Speaker 8: old in Maryland, provided agents with screenshots showing in Sino

1934
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:56,320
Speaker 8: had posted his address and discussed having him swatted. And

1935
01:39:56,400 --> 01:39:59,599
Speaker 8: this is such a messy, ugly thing, right, So first

1936
01:39:59,600 --> 01:40:02,920
Speaker 8: of all, the are kids. They're kids, right, One of

1937
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:06,200
Speaker 8: them is as young as thirteen, and that has to

1938
01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:08,760
Speaker 8: be front of mind in all of this. But even

1939
01:40:08,760 --> 01:40:11,759
Speaker 8: if they lack the frontal lobe capacity to really understand

1940
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:15,600
Speaker 8: the consequences of saying you're going to kill someone, this

1941
01:40:15,760 --> 01:40:20,559
Speaker 8: isn't just normal kid acting out behavior, right. PM told

1942
01:40:20,600 --> 01:40:23,639
Speaker 8: other users he wanted to shoot up his school. AM

1943
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:27,120
Speaker 8: posted often about wanting to build bombs and blow things

1944
01:40:27,240 --> 01:40:30,880
Speaker 8: up and expressed a lot of interest in isis. They

1945
01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:33,320
Speaker 8: were all calling into these meetings and saying the most shocking,

1946
01:40:33,439 --> 01:40:36,720
Speaker 8: upsetting things they could think of, and it's not one

1947
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:40,360
Speaker 8: hundred percent clear why right, Like they didn't all necessarily

1948
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:46,120
Speaker 8: have the same motivations or understandings. A teenager identified as

1949
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:49,000
Speaker 8: kh told agents the goal is to create such a

1950
01:40:49,040 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 8: disturbance that the hosts have no choice but determinate the meeting.

1951
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:56,160
Speaker 8: Hurting people's feelings along the way is completely in bounds,

1952
01:40:57,000 --> 01:40:58,800
Speaker 8: and the slurs were just a means to that end.

1953
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:02,720
Speaker 8: He said they would quote just have fun in there.

1954
01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:07,400
Speaker 8: Am told agents he was just posting quote random things,

1955
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:12,559
Speaker 8: but he also admitted he hates Jews, and so maybe

1956
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:15,120
Speaker 8: it's a meaningless exercise to try to nail down exactly

1957
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:18,320
Speaker 8: how ideologically committed these teens were to this project of

1958
01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:22,000
Speaker 8: racial and religious harassment. But Ala Sheemi is also not

1959
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:25,160
Speaker 8: the first Nazi to see the value in recruiting teens online.

1960
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:29,040
Speaker 8: They may just be kids talking shit right now, but

1961
01:41:29,120 --> 01:41:31,280
Speaker 8: if you hear a kid talking this type of shit,

1962
01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:36,400
Speaker 8: don't brush it off right This starts somewhere, This edgy, shocking,

1963
01:41:36,600 --> 01:41:41,040
Speaker 8: un serious sort of four chan style racism crystallizes into

1964
01:41:41,240 --> 01:41:44,800
Speaker 8: serious ideological commitment for some of them. And I hope

1965
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:47,320
Speaker 8: these kids' parents were able to provide some meaningful intervention

1966
01:41:47,400 --> 01:41:49,400
Speaker 8: after they found out what their kids were up to online.

1967
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:53,040
Speaker 8: And back to that timeline, right, So the indictment only

1968
01:41:53,120 --> 01:41:56,040
Speaker 8: lists the June twenty twenty calls as the overt acts

1969
01:41:56,080 --> 01:41:58,599
Speaker 8: of the conspiracy, but the date range for the charge

1970
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:02,519
Speaker 8: conduct is actually May twenty twenty to February twenty twenty two,

1971
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:06,080
Speaker 8: and maybe that means they plan to introduce additional evidence

1972
01:42:06,120 --> 01:42:09,599
Speaker 8: of other calls to support the conspiracy claim. It's hard

1973
01:42:09,640 --> 01:42:12,479
Speaker 8: to say. They're being pretty tight lipped about it. Reporting

1974
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:14,479
Speaker 8: by Jason Koebler for four or four Media says the

1975
01:42:14,520 --> 01:42:17,200
Speaker 8: Department of Justice declined to comment on the possibility of

1976
01:42:17,240 --> 01:42:20,760
Speaker 8: anyone else being charged, and the criminal complaint goes into

1977
01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:25,080
Speaker 8: some detail by interviewing multiple cooperative miners, But it is

1978
01:42:25,160 --> 01:42:27,600
Speaker 8: possible the records they got back from these various platforms

1979
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:30,240
Speaker 8: led them to other co conspirators who are old enough

1980
01:42:30,240 --> 01:42:32,720
Speaker 8: to catch a federal charge. There are a lot of

1981
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:34,479
Speaker 8: details missing here that we'll just have to wait for.

1982
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:38,680
Speaker 8: The docket shows that Alihemi has retained an attorney. I

1983
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:41,040
Speaker 8: assume they wouldn't have unsealed the indictment if they didn't

1984
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:43,880
Speaker 8: have him in custody, but there's no information available at

1985
01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:46,400
Speaker 8: when or where he was arrested, and how that extradition

1986
01:42:46,520 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 8: is coming along. And it's interesting to me how incredibly

1987
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:52,280
Speaker 8: similar the mo is in this case to the ring

1988
01:42:52,439 --> 01:42:53,719
Speaker 8: led by the Gham Defense League.

1989
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:53,960
Speaker 3: Guys.

1990
01:42:54,680 --> 01:42:57,240
Speaker 8: I mean, it's not exactly a complicated plan. It's not

1991
01:42:57,360 --> 01:42:59,519
Speaker 8: hard to believe that racists who never met each other

1992
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:01,800
Speaker 8: would end deependently arrive at the same gross way of

1993
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:05,280
Speaker 8: bothering people. But take for example, one of the incidents

1994
01:43:05,320 --> 01:43:08,440
Speaker 8: in the indictment. The man that they alleged was Alhahemi

1995
01:43:08,479 --> 01:43:10,759
Speaker 8: called into the Fresno City Council meeting on June eleventh,

1996
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 8: twenty twenty. During public comment. He pretended to be a

1997
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:17,280
Speaker 8: local resident named Brian, and he started off pretty normal, saying,

1998
01:43:17,320 --> 01:43:19,960
Speaker 8: you know, I agree with the previous speaker. He's sort

1999
01:43:19,960 --> 01:43:22,840
Speaker 8: of indicating that he's interested in and engaged in the

2000
01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:25,560
Speaker 8: topic of the meeting. He expresses an opinion about the

2001
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:28,640
Speaker 8: topic at hand, which happened to be police funding, and

2002
01:43:28,760 --> 01:43:31,840
Speaker 8: then suddenly he pivots to a violent call for murder

2003
01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:35,640
Speaker 8: of black residence and repeatedly uses the N word. And

2004
01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:37,800
Speaker 8: so after that call ends, the council's on high alert

2005
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:40,679
Speaker 8: for disruptive callers, so subsequent members of the group don't

2006
01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:43,439
Speaker 8: bother with a script or a backstory. They just start

2007
01:43:43,479 --> 01:43:46,160
Speaker 8: shouting slurs the second they connect until they're booted from

2008
01:43:46,200 --> 01:43:46,479
Speaker 8: the call.

2009
01:43:47,080 --> 01:43:47,200
Speaker 6: Right.

2010
01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:49,439
Speaker 8: So in this case, the caller after fake Brian was

2011
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:52,439
Speaker 8: that miner from South Carolina, And when his call connects,

2012
01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:54,400
Speaker 8: you can hear him laughing, and he just says the

2013
01:43:54,560 --> 01:43:56,560
Speaker 8: N word and they hang up on him. I don't know,

2014
01:43:56,600 --> 01:43:59,040
Speaker 8: maybe I'm two hung up on the structural similarities here.

2015
01:43:59,080 --> 01:44:01,680
Speaker 8: I guess that's just classic crank call procedure, right. You

2016
01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:04,479
Speaker 8: start off with the reasonable ruse, You get the person

2017
01:44:04,520 --> 01:44:06,880
Speaker 8: you've called to believe this is a real normal phone call,

2018
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:09,200
Speaker 8: and then you shock and upset them by making a

2019
01:44:09,280 --> 01:44:11,800
Speaker 8: hard right turn into the I guess you can't really

2020
01:44:11,840 --> 01:44:14,040
Speaker 8: call it a punchline if it's not funny, but you

2021
01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 8: know what I mean. But if you took the names

2022
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:18,560
Speaker 8: out of this indictment, you could mistake these descriptions of

2023
01:44:18,600 --> 01:44:21,840
Speaker 8: calls for city Council death squad scripts. But they didn't

2024
01:44:21,840 --> 01:44:23,800
Speaker 8: start doing their zoom bombing until the summer of twenty

2025
01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:26,599
Speaker 8: twenty three, and according to this indictment, the FBI agents

2026
01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:29,320
Speaker 8: were having uncomfortable conversations with teenage boys all the way

2027
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:31,680
Speaker 8: back in twenty twenty. So I think if there was

2028
01:44:31,720 --> 01:44:35,360
Speaker 8: any overlap between these two zoom bomb rings, we'd know

2029
01:44:35,479 --> 01:44:38,840
Speaker 8: by now. I think this is just unrelated racists reaching

2030
01:44:38,880 --> 01:44:41,960
Speaker 8: the same horrible conclusion. But if those guys are listening,

2031
01:44:42,200 --> 01:44:45,360
Speaker 8: I hope they hear the significance of that timeline. Within

2032
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:48,680
Speaker 8: weeks of that first zoom bomb. In this indictment, they

2033
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:50,360
Speaker 8: had search warrants for the homes of two of the

2034
01:44:50,439 --> 01:44:53,400
Speaker 8: miners on those calls. I think a lot of people

2035
01:44:53,439 --> 01:44:57,240
Speaker 8: assume that if they don't get caught, they aren't going

2036
01:44:57,320 --> 01:44:59,519
Speaker 8: to get caught. You see that a lot on tax

2037
01:44:59,560 --> 01:45:01,439
Speaker 8: evasion cases. Right after you do it a few years

2038
01:45:01,479 --> 01:45:03,000
Speaker 8: in a row, you figure they're never going to get you,

2039
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:04,920
Speaker 8: so you keep doing it. You get a little bolder,

2040
01:45:05,479 --> 01:45:07,599
Speaker 8: But they're just taking their time and building their case.

2041
01:45:08,680 --> 01:45:11,720
Speaker 8: Just because you haven't been caught yet, does it mean

2042
01:45:11,760 --> 01:45:12,800
Speaker 8: they don't know you're doing it?

2043
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:14,080
Speaker 4: So who knows.

2044
01:45:14,320 --> 01:45:16,880
Speaker 8: Maybe we'll see a similar indictment against the GDL guys

2045
01:45:17,720 --> 01:45:20,880
Speaker 8: a few years after they started doing it. There's not

2046
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:22,840
Speaker 8: really a button to put on this one. We'll have

2047
01:45:22,920 --> 01:45:24,800
Speaker 8: to wait for more filings than Al Hashemi's case to

2048
01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:27,680
Speaker 8: learn anything more there, But if you know any teenagers,

2049
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:32,280
Speaker 8: check in with them, make sure they're actually playing roeblocks

2050
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:34,560
Speaker 8: and not being coaxed into doing federal crime by a

2051
01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:38,679
Speaker 8: Nazi in Albania. You know what better yet, go outside,

2052
01:45:39,439 --> 01:45:41,920
Speaker 8: unplug your router, be free.

2053
01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:02,320
Speaker 2: First, no matter what happens, to breathe. It's always good

2054
01:46:02,360 --> 01:46:05,519
Speaker 2: advice to breathe, But taking good advice is easier said

2055
01:46:05,600 --> 01:46:08,920
Speaker 2: than done. Sometimes the world is so overwhelming that any

2056
01:46:09,000 --> 01:46:11,759
Speaker 2: added weight, even the weight of oxygen in your lungs,

2057
01:46:12,280 --> 01:46:14,559
Speaker 2: feels like it might be enough to drag you down.

2058
01:46:15,320 --> 01:46:17,920
Speaker 2: This is one of those times. The last week has

2059
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:20,640
Speaker 2: brought about ten years worth of news, and we are

2060
01:46:20,720 --> 01:46:24,680
Speaker 2: all processing the seemingly inevitable coronation of a dictator and

2061
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:28,479
Speaker 2: the sudden hope and possibility inspired by Joe Biden's stepping

2062
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:32,360
Speaker 2: down from the nomination Welcome to It could happen here.

2063
01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:35,719
Speaker 2: I'm Robert Evans, and this is a podcast about things

2064
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:39,000
Speaker 2: falling apart and sometimes about how to put them back together.

2065
01:46:39,720 --> 01:46:42,080
Speaker 2: The last time I sat down to talk with all

2066
01:46:42,160 --> 01:46:44,840
Speaker 2: of you like this was in the immediate aftermath of

2067
01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:48,839
Speaker 2: the Trump assassination attempt just before the Republican National Convention.

2068
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:52,360
Speaker 2: I told you not to panic. That's still good advice.

2069
01:46:52,960 --> 01:46:55,280
Speaker 2: I also told you that no matter how bad or

2070
01:46:55,439 --> 01:46:59,919
Speaker 2: good things may look, literally anything can happen in US politics,

2071
01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:03,480
Speaker 2: and by god, it has. I felt it was necessary

2072
01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:05,920
Speaker 2: to deliver that message because I saw an awful lot

2073
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:10,040
Speaker 2: of people declaring We're doomed. Fascism is inevitable, and quite frankly,

2074
01:47:10,439 --> 01:47:14,000
Speaker 2: I think shit like that only helps the fascists. Well,

2075
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:16,479
Speaker 2: it turned out I was right. A lot has happened

2076
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:19,400
Speaker 2: over the last two weeks, and the situation now is

2077
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:22,240
Speaker 2: very different than it was the day the former president

2078
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:25,840
Speaker 2: took that grazing blow from a sniper's bullet. As is

2079
01:47:26,040 --> 01:47:28,519
Speaker 2: usually the case and instances like this, I've had a

2080
01:47:28,560 --> 01:47:30,879
Speaker 2: lot of people reach out to me since that episode,

2081
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:33,599
Speaker 2: saying versions of how did you know? And as good

2082
01:47:33,640 --> 01:47:35,400
Speaker 2: as it might be for my career to lean into

2083
01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:37,560
Speaker 2: that side of my reputation, the truth is that I

2084
01:47:37,640 --> 01:47:40,040
Speaker 2: am white knuckling it through every twist and turn like

2085
01:47:40,160 --> 01:47:43,080
Speaker 2: everyone else. I spent the RNC wondering if I'd been

2086
01:47:43,160 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 2: foolish telling people not to panic, and yes, I feel

2087
01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:49,439
Speaker 2: a hell of a lot better right now. Of course,

2088
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:52,000
Speaker 2: I don't know what comes next. I just know that

2089
01:47:52,080 --> 01:47:54,000
Speaker 2: we're done with the portion of this mess where we

2090
01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:58,200
Speaker 2: spiral in a hopeless mire That was last week. This week,

2091
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:01,559
Speaker 2: the outlook is a lot better. And not because Kamala

2092
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:04,560
Speaker 2: Harris is our savior or because Nancy Pelosi is a

2093
01:48:04,600 --> 01:48:08,200
Speaker 2: three D chess master, but because men age and die.

2094
01:48:09,120 --> 01:48:11,519
Speaker 2: This is a fact I tried to remind myself of

2095
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:14,400
Speaker 2: as I'd grown through that disastrous debate with the rest

2096
01:48:14,439 --> 01:48:16,920
Speaker 2: of the country. On one hand, I felt like we

2097
01:48:17,000 --> 01:48:19,720
Speaker 2: were all about to watch one ailing, power hungry man

2098
01:48:19,880 --> 01:48:22,040
Speaker 2: hand the keys to the kingdom over to a cadre

2099
01:48:22,120 --> 01:48:26,040
Speaker 2: of bloodthirsty fascists. But on the other hand, there's always

2100
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:30,760
Speaker 2: something inherently optimistic in this simple reality. The people who

2101
01:48:30,800 --> 01:48:34,200
Speaker 2: would be our rulers will all die someday, and so

2102
01:48:34,360 --> 01:48:37,840
Speaker 2: long as men die, liberty will never perish. So long

2103
01:48:37,920 --> 01:48:41,360
Speaker 2: as men die, we have hope. I stole that line

2104
01:48:41,400 --> 01:48:43,760
Speaker 2: from Charlie Chaplin. He put it in the mouth of

2105
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,839
Speaker 2: his character from The Great Dictator, a movie he produced

2106
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:50,160
Speaker 2: at great personal cost in nineteen forty riot. As Hitler

2107
01:48:50,240 --> 01:48:53,160
Speaker 2: and the Nazis reached the apex of their power. A

2108
01:48:53,320 --> 01:48:56,240
Speaker 2: rational analyst staring out at the playing field after the

2109
01:48:56,320 --> 01:48:58,479
Speaker 2: fall of France, could be forgiven for having seen the

2110
01:48:58,560 --> 01:49:03,080
Speaker 2: outcome as certain Great Britain stood alone, Hitler's armies victorious

2111
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:06,040
Speaker 2: on every theater, and the future of democracy and human

2112
01:49:06,120 --> 01:49:11,160
Speaker 2: liberty gasping for breath. One such rational analyst was Joseph Kennedy,

2113
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:14,880
Speaker 2: US ambassador to Great Britain and patriarch of the Kennedy family.

2114
01:49:15,560 --> 01:49:18,120
Speaker 2: Joseph was a man of wealth and power, whose sober

2115
01:49:18,240 --> 01:49:20,840
Speaker 2: judgment and cunning had seen him short the entire US

2116
01:49:20,920 --> 01:49:23,320
Speaker 2: stock market, and the kind of fortune that let him

2117
01:49:23,320 --> 01:49:26,200
Speaker 2: buy his way into the ranks of global royalty. He

2118
01:49:26,360 --> 01:49:29,280
Speaker 2: was a man who had predicted the future once one big,

2119
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:31,600
Speaker 2: and he let that convince him that he had the

2120
01:49:31,720 --> 01:49:35,479
Speaker 2: second sight. And so in November nineteen forty, less than

2121
01:49:35,479 --> 01:49:38,360
Speaker 2: a month after the release of the Great Dictator, Kennedy

2122
01:49:38,479 --> 01:49:41,479
Speaker 2: found himself in an interview with the Boston Globe, looking

2123
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:43,639
Speaker 2: out at the ruin of Europe and the bombs falling

2124
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:47,639
Speaker 2: on London. He told a reporter, democracy is finished in England.

2125
01:49:48,040 --> 01:49:52,280
Speaker 2: It may be here here, of course, being the United States. Now.

2126
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:55,720
Speaker 2: The resulting blowback to all of this saw Kennedy force

2127
01:49:55,840 --> 01:49:59,799
Speaker 2: to resign his ambassadorship. The very next year, Hitler invaded

2128
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:02,640
Speaker 2: the the Soviet Union, and for several brutal months it

2129
01:50:02,720 --> 01:50:06,120
Speaker 2: looked like Joe had been right. Not only might democracy

2130
01:50:06,240 --> 01:50:09,839
Speaker 2: be finished, but every system besides fascism might be hurtling

2131
01:50:09,920 --> 01:50:14,599
Speaker 2: towards annihilation and bondage under the Swastika, depending on how

2132
01:50:14,640 --> 01:50:17,519
Speaker 2: you count it. The Third Reich and fascism as a whole,

2133
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:20,960
Speaker 2: reached its greatest extent of territorial power in either mid

2134
01:50:21,080 --> 01:50:25,439
Speaker 2: August or September nineteen forty one. By November of nineteen

2135
01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:28,559
Speaker 2: forty one, a year after Joe Kennedy's remarks to the Globe,

2136
01:50:28,880 --> 01:50:31,960
Speaker 2: Operation Barbarossa had been wrenched to a bloody halt, and

2137
01:50:32,040 --> 01:50:34,639
Speaker 2: the long battle to push the fascists back and drown

2138
01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:37,479
Speaker 2: them in the waters of their birth had begun. And

2139
01:50:37,640 --> 01:50:41,080
Speaker 2: so in the end it was Charlie Chaplin, not Joe Kennedy,

2140
01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:44,719
Speaker 2: who had the proper measure of things. Liberty survived because

2141
01:50:44,800 --> 01:50:48,160
Speaker 2: men died, many millions of them, from Kiev to Canterbury.

2142
01:50:49,240 --> 01:50:52,080
Speaker 2: We live in very different times now. The armies of

2143
01:50:52,120 --> 01:50:56,599
Speaker 2: fascism are not primarily conquering land under arms. The primary

2144
01:50:56,720 --> 01:50:59,600
Speaker 2: terrain of our present conflict exists within the hearts and

2145
01:50:59,680 --> 01:51:02,639
Speaker 2: souls of men and women. And while populism is still

2146
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:05,479
Speaker 2: a favorite mechanism of action among the fascists, they have

2147
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:08,800
Speaker 2: in this country at least given up on victory by

2148
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:12,639
Speaker 2: sheer weight of numbers. It's true what they say, war

2149
01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:16,240
Speaker 2: never changes. Weapons do, But the core of all human

2150
01:51:16,360 --> 01:51:20,360
Speaker 2: conflict revolves around the capture and denial of territory. If

2151
01:51:20,400 --> 01:51:23,800
Speaker 2: you can't occupy ground yourself, you must at least deny

2152
01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:26,560
Speaker 2: it to the enemy. In infantry combat, this is the

2153
01:51:26,600 --> 01:51:29,479
Speaker 2: primary use of a machine gun, not to kill people,

2154
01:51:29,680 --> 01:51:32,000
Speaker 2: but to blanket an area in bullets and stop the

2155
01:51:32,160 --> 01:51:35,280
Speaker 2: enemy from moving through it. In our modern war of

2156
01:51:35,400 --> 01:51:38,160
Speaker 2: thoughts and feelings, the machine gun has yielded to the

2157
01:51:38,240 --> 01:51:42,040
Speaker 2: fire hose of propaganda and disinformation. These have always been

2158
01:51:42,120 --> 01:51:45,000
Speaker 2: parts of the fascist arsenal, but the Internet has allowed

2159
01:51:45,040 --> 01:51:47,439
Speaker 2: an increase in the scale and speed of their deployment

2160
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:49,960
Speaker 2: that is very much comparable to the replacement of bolt

2161
01:51:50,040 --> 01:51:54,040
Speaker 2: action rifles with automatic ones. The forces of basic human

2162
01:51:54,120 --> 01:51:57,400
Speaker 2: decency have a natural advantage in terms of human terrain

2163
01:51:57,600 --> 01:52:00,920
Speaker 2: that should be impossible for the fascists to counter, no

2164
01:52:01,040 --> 01:52:03,760
Speaker 2: matter what the bastards say, most people want to be

2165
01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:06,960
Speaker 2: left alone with the people they love to live their lives.

2166
01:52:07,479 --> 01:52:09,400
Speaker 2: The forces of hate, the people who want to throw

2167
01:52:09,520 --> 01:52:12,080
Speaker 2: trans kids in their parents in gas chambers and drown

2168
01:52:12,160 --> 01:52:14,880
Speaker 2: migrants in the Rio Grande tap out at a little

2169
01:52:14,880 --> 01:52:18,360
Speaker 2: over a third of the population max. If you want

2170
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:21,360
Speaker 2: to return to World War II metaphors, and why wouldn't you?

2171
01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:25,160
Speaker 2: The monsters are stuck in tiny, landlocked Germany without any

2172
01:52:25,240 --> 01:52:28,000
Speaker 2: gas or steel. The only way for them to access

2173
01:52:28,120 --> 01:52:31,280
Speaker 2: the resources in territory they need to maneuver themselves into

2174
01:52:31,360 --> 01:52:33,800
Speaker 2: a victory is by cutting us off from each other

2175
01:52:34,080 --> 01:52:37,320
Speaker 2: and keeping us too confused and divided to surround the

2176
01:52:37,400 --> 01:52:41,000
Speaker 2: bastards and smother them all for good. They do this

2177
01:52:41,280 --> 01:52:44,800
Speaker 2: by convincing you that you are isolated, alone and surrounded

2178
01:52:44,880 --> 01:52:49,799
Speaker 2: by them. Our hopelessness is their force multiplier. When leftists

2179
01:52:49,840 --> 01:52:52,679
Speaker 2: in the US look out at Ukrainians struggling for survival

2180
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:56,040
Speaker 2: and write them off as Nazis, as diluted tools of imperialism,

2181
01:52:56,320 --> 01:52:59,439
Speaker 2: When liberals in blue cities to cry college students protesting

2182
01:52:59,479 --> 01:53:02,680
Speaker 2: on behalf of dying Palestinian children as agents of Hamas,

2183
01:53:03,160 --> 01:53:06,280
Speaker 2: the lines of solidarity between a snap rather than wrapping

2184
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:09,519
Speaker 2: like a garret around the throats of our opponents. This

2185
01:53:09,720 --> 01:53:12,519
Speaker 2: is why you've seen so much allegiance and sympathy between

2186
01:53:12,560 --> 01:53:15,360
Speaker 2: the cruelest and most deluded segments of the Western left.

2187
01:53:15,520 --> 01:53:18,519
Speaker 2: The people who laughed at Syrian civilians sheltering from Bushah

2188
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:21,240
Speaker 2: al Assad's bombs and called them the CIA and the

2189
01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:24,559
Speaker 2: agents of Putin's Russia and Peter Teal's neo monarchist right.

2190
01:53:25,080 --> 01:53:28,360
Speaker 2: The Teals, Bannons, Putin's Airdoins, Trumps and Modis of the

2191
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:31,280
Speaker 2: world know how lonely they are. The only way they

2192
01:53:31,320 --> 01:53:34,439
Speaker 2: can win is to convince you that you're alone. Then

2193
01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:37,479
Speaker 2: they have you at a disadvantage. Then they can kill

2194
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:41,280
Speaker 2: us one by one. You know, there's no smooth way

2195
01:53:41,439 --> 01:53:43,640
Speaker 2: to transition to an ad and a piece like this,

2196
01:53:43,880 --> 01:53:57,960
Speaker 2: But here it is. We're back now. I'm not a

2197
01:53:58,040 --> 01:54:01,200
Speaker 2: young man, but I do sometimes the think of humanity

2198
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:05,120
Speaker 2: as a single, vast, gestalt organism groping for survival and

2199
01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:07,920
Speaker 2: comfort in a world that mostly exists beyond what we

2200
01:54:08,080 --> 01:54:11,840
Speaker 2: can see. Majority of people are happy existing as part

2201
01:54:11,880 --> 01:54:14,640
Speaker 2: of that vast whole. We take comfort and safety in

2202
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:17,479
Speaker 2: our communion with the rest of the species. But there

2203
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:20,240
Speaker 2: are a few diseased minds out there that don't believe

2204
01:54:20,360 --> 01:54:23,559
Speaker 2: in the rest of us. These sollipsists see themselves as

2205
01:54:23,600 --> 01:54:26,439
Speaker 2: the only minds, and the perpetuation of their own power

2206
01:54:26,560 --> 01:54:30,000
Speaker 2: and will as the only real good. That's why men

2207
01:54:30,200 --> 01:54:33,760
Speaker 2: like Peter Teel seek physical immortality, and it's why men

2208
01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:36,920
Speaker 2: like Vladimir Putin or Hitler seek the kind of immortality

2209
01:54:37,000 --> 01:54:39,440
Speaker 2: that comes from welding the edifice of a nation state

2210
01:54:39,520 --> 01:54:43,680
Speaker 2: to themselves. Hitler is Germany, and Germany will last forever.

2211
01:54:44,240 --> 01:54:47,600
Speaker 2: Elon Musk sees his children as an extension of himself,

2212
01:54:47,920 --> 01:54:51,080
Speaker 2: and his fantasies of space colonization are really just a

2213
01:54:51,160 --> 01:54:54,640
Speaker 2: fantasy that he will remain central to humanity's future down

2214
01:54:54,680 --> 01:54:59,879
Speaker 2: through eternity. Musk has repeatedly identified himself as a pro natalist,

2215
01:55:00,160 --> 01:55:03,160
Speaker 2: and he believes his responsibilities to have as many children

2216
01:55:03,200 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 2: as possible to secure a pro human future. The term

2217
01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:09,800
Speaker 2: pro human might confuse you, given the lack of concern

2218
01:55:09,960 --> 01:55:12,640
Speaker 2: he has for the children being bombed in Gaza or

2219
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:15,480
Speaker 2: who will surely die in the mass deportation camps through

2220
01:55:15,480 --> 01:55:18,840
Speaker 2: a publican party is currently salivating to open. But the

2221
01:55:18,920 --> 01:55:22,280
Speaker 2: only real human Elon sees is himself, which is why

2222
01:55:22,360 --> 01:55:25,280
Speaker 2: he equates the survival of the species with his own

2223
01:55:25,320 --> 01:55:28,680
Speaker 2: ability to breed. As I type, this video has begun

2224
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:31,680
Speaker 2: circulating around the Internet from an interview Musk conducted with

2225
01:55:31,800 --> 01:55:35,400
Speaker 2: Jordan Peterson for The Daily Wire. In it, Musk explains

2226
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:39,040
Speaker 2: why he has now fully embraced politics, endorsing Donald Trump

2227
01:55:39,120 --> 01:55:43,240
Speaker 2: and declaring himself at war with wokeism, which he describes

2228
01:55:43,280 --> 01:55:46,640
Speaker 2: as an existential threat to the species. He claims that

2229
01:55:46,760 --> 01:55:50,000
Speaker 2: what cinched this for him was his daughter deciding to transition.

2230
01:55:50,640 --> 01:55:54,440
Speaker 6: It happened to one of my older boys where I

2231
01:55:54,680 --> 01:56:01,000
Speaker 6: was essentially tricked into signing documents for one of my

2232
01:56:01,040 --> 01:56:01,560
Speaker 6: older boys.

2233
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:04,800
Speaker 2: There was a lot of confusion, and.

2234
01:56:06,320 --> 01:56:08,760
Speaker 6: You know, I was told, oh, you know, might commit

2235
01:56:08,840 --> 01:56:13,680
Speaker 6: suicide if it's incredibly evil, And I agree with you

2236
01:56:13,800 --> 01:56:16,000
Speaker 6: that people that have been promoting this should go to president.

2237
01:56:16,560 --> 01:56:19,440
Speaker 6: So I was, I was straight into doing this. You know,

2238
01:56:19,440 --> 01:56:22,480
Speaker 6: it wasn't explained to me that puberty blocks are actually

2239
01:56:22,640 --> 01:56:24,080
Speaker 6: just sterilization drugs.

2240
01:56:25,880 --> 01:56:27,920
Speaker 2: So I lost my son essentially.

2241
01:56:28,680 --> 01:56:34,000
Speaker 6: So you know they they quote dead naming for a reason. Yeah, right,

2242
01:56:34,200 --> 01:56:37,280
Speaker 6: So the reason it's quote dead naming is because so

2243
01:56:37,360 --> 01:56:41,080
Speaker 6: my son is dead, killed by the Wok mind virus.

2244
01:56:41,800 --> 01:56:44,840
Speaker 2: Musk's child is not in fact dead, but they have

2245
01:56:44,960 --> 01:56:48,640
Speaker 2: expressed an identity utterly separate from Elon, an identity he

2246
01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:52,920
Speaker 2: cannot understand. Because Musk can only see his children as

2247
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:55,920
Speaker 2: an extension of himself and his ego. This is in

2248
01:56:56,040 --> 01:56:59,160
Speaker 2: fact worse than death. It is a threat to Musk's

2249
01:56:59,200 --> 01:57:03,000
Speaker 2: own life. This, incidentally, is why Musk and his fellow

2250
01:57:03,080 --> 01:57:07,280
Speaker 2: travelers see transgender kids as such a threat. Accepting a

2251
01:57:07,400 --> 01:57:10,120
Speaker 2: trans child, even if you don't fully understand how and

2252
01:57:10,240 --> 01:57:12,600
Speaker 2: why they feel the way they do, is one of

2253
01:57:12,640 --> 01:57:15,760
Speaker 2: the most radical acts of love imaginable. To do this

2254
01:57:16,080 --> 01:57:19,120
Speaker 2: means that you've accepted, on a fundamental level that your

2255
01:57:19,240 --> 01:57:22,920
Speaker 2: children are autonomous beings, not an extension of you, but

2256
01:57:23,080 --> 01:57:27,560
Speaker 2: something new, wonderful, and unique. The essence of parental love

2257
01:57:27,800 --> 01:57:31,080
Speaker 2: is to give your children to the world. This means

2258
01:57:31,160 --> 01:57:34,000
Speaker 2: accepting that you are finite that the world goes on

2259
01:57:34,160 --> 01:57:37,560
Speaker 2: without you. If you see all humanity as an extension

2260
01:57:37,640 --> 01:57:41,120
Speaker 2: of your own ego, nothing could be more frightening. The

2261
01:57:41,200 --> 01:57:44,920
Speaker 2: people who feel this way, people like Elon, are mutations,

2262
01:57:45,200 --> 01:57:47,400
Speaker 2: a glitch in the human system that starts as a

2263
01:57:47,480 --> 01:57:50,360
Speaker 2: glitch within the heart of an individual. It comes as

2264
01:57:50,400 --> 01:57:54,120
Speaker 2: a byproduct of success in the very visible, spectacular ways

2265
01:57:54,160 --> 01:57:57,600
Speaker 2: that feed narcissism. When I think about stuff like this,

2266
01:57:57,880 --> 01:58:00,520
Speaker 2: I refer often back to a great art by the

2267
01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:05,320
Speaker 2: anthropologist Richard Lee, eating Christmas in the Kalahari. Lee spent

2268
01:58:05,480 --> 01:58:08,800
Speaker 2: years living among the Ikung Bushmen, a Bantu speaking hunter

2269
01:58:08,920 --> 01:58:11,800
Speaker 2: gatherer group who were seen by anthropologists as some of

2270
01:58:11,880 --> 01:58:14,480
Speaker 2: the people still living in a manner most similar to

2271
01:58:14,560 --> 01:58:18,160
Speaker 2: our ancient ancestors. One Christmas, as a show of gratitude

2272
01:58:18,200 --> 01:58:21,080
Speaker 2: to his hosts, Lee purchased a massive ox for the

2273
01:58:21,160 --> 01:58:24,360
Speaker 2: holiday feast. He was excited to show this great gift

2274
01:58:24,480 --> 01:58:26,520
Speaker 2: off to his new friends, and he was proud of

2275
01:58:26,600 --> 01:58:29,920
Speaker 2: himself for having gotten it, and he was utterly shocked

2276
01:58:29,920 --> 01:58:33,160
Speaker 2: when they responded to his pride with mockery of him

2277
01:58:33,280 --> 01:58:37,040
Speaker 2: and his ox, insulting it as scrawny, tiny, hardly fit

2278
01:58:37,200 --> 01:58:40,360
Speaker 2: to eat now. This shockedly because the ox he had

2279
01:58:40,400 --> 01:58:43,200
Speaker 2: purchased was of course quite large, and it was eventually

2280
01:58:43,320 --> 01:58:46,000
Speaker 2: explained to him that his friends were reacting with mockery

2281
01:58:46,480 --> 01:58:48,920
Speaker 2: not to his gift, but to the evident pride he

2282
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:51,960
Speaker 2: had shown in it, bringing in a great beast worth

2283
01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:54,280
Speaker 2: of meat. Either as a hunter, or from buying it

2284
01:58:54,400 --> 01:58:56,720
Speaker 2: as Burton did, is the kind of thing that can

2285
01:58:56,800 --> 01:58:59,280
Speaker 2: go to a young man's head. If you are the

2286
01:58:59,320 --> 01:59:01,600
Speaker 2: one with the poet book or the one who fires

2287
01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:04,480
Speaker 2: the arrow, you can forget that the meat before you,

2288
01:59:04,640 --> 01:59:07,240
Speaker 2: the meat that you've brought into the community, is not

2289
01:59:07,400 --> 01:59:10,720
Speaker 2: the product purely of your own genius, but is a

2290
01:59:10,840 --> 01:59:13,760
Speaker 2: product of all of the time and resources invested in

2291
01:59:13,920 --> 01:59:17,040
Speaker 2: you by the community. The shaming of the meat, as

2292
01:59:17,080 --> 01:59:19,200
Speaker 2: this tactic was called, is a time honored way of

2293
01:59:19,320 --> 01:59:22,200
Speaker 2: correcting the glitch in young men of the Ukun before

2294
01:59:22,240 --> 01:59:25,480
Speaker 2: it can turn terminal. As one elder in the tribe

2295
01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:29,200
Speaker 2: eventually explained to Lee, when a young man kills much meat,

2296
01:59:29,240 --> 01:59:31,240
Speaker 2: he comes to think of himself as a chief or

2297
01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:33,240
Speaker 2: a big man, and he thinks of the rest of

2298
01:59:33,360 --> 01:59:36,400
Speaker 2: us as his servants or inferiors. We can't accept this.

2299
01:59:36,840 --> 01:59:39,920
Speaker 2: We refuse one who boasts, for someday his pride will

2300
01:59:39,920 --> 01:59:42,560
Speaker 2: make him kill somebody. So we always speak of his

2301
01:59:42,720 --> 01:59:45,480
Speaker 2: meat as worthless. This way we cool his heart and

2302
01:59:45,600 --> 01:59:49,440
Speaker 2: make him gentle. And speaking of cooling your heart, why

2303
01:59:49,480 --> 01:59:52,120
Speaker 2: don't you cool your heart with some ads? And then

2304
01:59:52,640 --> 01:59:55,080
Speaker 2: we'll come back to conclude this in a little bit,

2305
02:00:06,040 --> 02:00:09,600
Speaker 2: We're back. It has been theorized that the shaming of

2306
02:00:09,720 --> 02:00:12,560
Speaker 2: the meat is a social construct that may help to

2307
02:00:12,640 --> 02:00:16,480
Speaker 2: explain one of the evolutionary values of satire, perhaps even

2308
02:00:16,600 --> 02:00:20,600
Speaker 2: why humanity keeps producing comedians. They act as a part

2309
02:00:20,680 --> 02:00:24,160
Speaker 2: of our species immune system. When this glitch in the

2310
02:00:24,280 --> 02:00:27,040
Speaker 2: hearts of young men isn't punctured, when it's allowed to

2311
02:00:27,160 --> 02:00:30,680
Speaker 2: take off and dominate them, then it changes them on

2312
02:00:30,760 --> 02:00:33,440
Speaker 2: a fundamental level, and the being that it leaves in

2313
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:38,080
Speaker 2: its wake seems to understand instinctively that laughter is a

2314
02:00:38,200 --> 02:00:42,160
Speaker 2: danger to it. This ultimately explains why Musk purchase Twitter

2315
02:00:42,280 --> 02:00:45,280
Speaker 2: and why Barack Obama's mockery of Donald Trump during that

2316
02:00:45,360 --> 02:00:48,520
Speaker 2: White House Correspondence Center set us all down the dark

2317
02:00:48,640 --> 02:00:52,480
Speaker 2: path that we currently are walking. So clearly, humor alone

2318
02:00:52,560 --> 02:00:55,320
Speaker 2: doesn't always save us from these kinds of people either.

2319
02:00:56,080 --> 02:00:59,520
Speaker 2: What Will I Have several times and my various shows

2320
02:00:59,560 --> 02:01:02,160
Speaker 2: identified myself as an anarchist, and I tend to do

2321
02:01:02,320 --> 02:01:04,760
Speaker 2: that even though I don't feel fully comfortable with the title,

2322
02:01:04,840 --> 02:01:08,360
Speaker 2: because brevity matters. I'm speaking to a mass audience and

2323
02:01:08,680 --> 02:01:10,920
Speaker 2: using that word gets as close enough for the sake

2324
02:01:10,960 --> 02:01:13,600
Speaker 2: of a podcast. But I'm not an anarchist in the

2325
02:01:13,680 --> 02:01:15,920
Speaker 2: sense that I have some sort of clear vision for

2326
02:01:16,080 --> 02:01:19,600
Speaker 2: how to build a utopia. Obviously, I do think anarchism

2327
02:01:20,000 --> 02:01:23,280
Speaker 2: has some answers for how human beings might build a

2328
02:01:23,400 --> 02:01:25,800
Speaker 2: better world. That's why I went through a Java, It's

2329
02:01:25,840 --> 02:01:27,400
Speaker 2: why we cover a lot of the things that we

2330
02:01:27,520 --> 02:01:31,080
Speaker 2: cover on these series. But I am primarily an anarchist

2331
02:01:31,320 --> 02:01:35,400
Speaker 2: because I understand that hierarchy kills. Because I understand that

2332
02:01:35,560 --> 02:01:38,440
Speaker 2: hierarchy separates us from each other and acts as a

2333
02:01:38,520 --> 02:01:42,520
Speaker 2: petri dish within which this glitch can propagate. I'm an

2334
02:01:42,520 --> 02:01:45,240
Speaker 2: anarchist because I love the people around me, because I

2335
02:01:45,360 --> 02:01:47,760
Speaker 2: understand that I am human, and because I see that

2336
02:01:47,920 --> 02:01:51,200
Speaker 2: my role in the human immune system is to remind

2337
02:01:51,400 --> 02:01:54,400
Speaker 2: other people of that fact and to point a finger

2338
02:01:54,640 --> 02:01:57,720
Speaker 2: at the people who have forgotten that they're human. I

2339
02:01:57,880 --> 02:01:59,840
Speaker 2: promised in the title of this little piece that I

2340
02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:02,080
Speaker 2: would tell you how we can win, and I can

2341
02:02:02,240 --> 02:02:05,520
Speaker 2: do that in a few words. We have to remember

2342
02:02:05,840 --> 02:02:10,120
Speaker 2: that we are humans. Amala Harris is an authoritarian. The

2343
02:02:10,200 --> 02:02:12,480
Speaker 2: fact that she wants to be president at all should

2344
02:02:12,560 --> 02:02:14,960
Speaker 2: make you leery of her. But she's not a Trump

2345
02:02:15,200 --> 02:02:19,040
Speaker 2: or a Musk. She has not separated herself entirely from humanity,

2346
02:02:19,400 --> 02:02:22,480
Speaker 2: if you'll forgive the reference. She understands that she exists

2347
02:02:22,520 --> 02:02:25,560
Speaker 2: in the context of all that came before her. Joe

2348
02:02:25,600 --> 02:02:28,280
Speaker 2: Biden has been hungry for power all his life. The

2349
02:02:28,360 --> 02:02:31,320
Speaker 2: glitch is in him. It has consumed most of him,

2350
02:02:31,800 --> 02:02:34,400
Speaker 2: but as we all learned recently, not all of him.

2351
02:02:34,760 --> 02:02:37,520
Speaker 2: He too understands that he is a part of humanity,

2352
02:02:37,840 --> 02:02:41,360
Speaker 2: indivisible from it. Now you can and should still view

2353
02:02:41,400 --> 02:02:43,840
Speaker 2: the man with disgust, even hatred. He ought to be

2354
02:02:43,960 --> 02:02:47,040
Speaker 2: in the Hague, but he also stepped down and gave

2355
02:02:47,160 --> 02:02:49,320
Speaker 2: up the thing that a week ago I'd have said

2356
02:02:49,440 --> 02:02:52,520
Speaker 2: probably mattered most to him in the world. This was

2357
02:02:52,600 --> 02:02:55,360
Speaker 2: not a purely selfless gesture. I'm sure he acted in

2358
02:02:55,360 --> 02:02:58,000
Speaker 2: a large part to try and salvage his own legacy.

2359
02:02:58,520 --> 02:03:00,960
Speaker 2: But it is also not a thing thing Donald Trump

2360
02:03:01,040 --> 02:03:03,520
Speaker 2: could ever do. You certainly wouldn't see a man like

2361
02:03:03,640 --> 02:03:06,760
Speaker 2: Vladimir Putin make a similar choice, and we've all seen

2362
02:03:06,840 --> 02:03:09,280
Speaker 2: the kind of slaughter bb net Yahoo is willing to

2363
02:03:09,400 --> 02:03:12,720
Speaker 2: back to hold on to power. None of this redeems

2364
02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:15,320
Speaker 2: Biden or makes him a good person or any less

2365
02:03:15,360 --> 02:03:18,440
Speaker 2: complicit in genocide than he was a week ago. I

2366
02:03:18,520 --> 02:03:20,720
Speaker 2: think it does put us in a better position when

2367
02:03:20,760 --> 02:03:23,920
Speaker 2: it comes to fighting for a ceasefire in Gaza. Everyone

2368
02:03:24,040 --> 02:03:27,600
Speaker 2: in US politics knows that Biden's political end started with

2369
02:03:27,720 --> 02:03:31,160
Speaker 2: the surge of uncommitted voters in Michigan. The loss of

2370
02:03:31,240 --> 02:03:35,160
Speaker 2: a second term is not a sufficient punishment for Biden's actions,

2371
02:03:35,600 --> 02:03:38,080
Speaker 2: but it is a punishment that has the ability to

2372
02:03:38,200 --> 02:03:41,920
Speaker 2: reshape the kind of risks US presidents will and won't

2373
02:03:41,960 --> 02:03:45,640
Speaker 2: take for Israel from now on. It has also helped

2374
02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:48,200
Speaker 2: me make sense of something that happened in twenty twenty.

2375
02:03:48,960 --> 02:03:52,120
Speaker 2: You all remember the moment during the one presidential debate

2376
02:03:52,200 --> 02:03:55,560
Speaker 2: that year, President Trump attacked Biden over the numerous scandals

2377
02:03:55,560 --> 02:03:58,520
Speaker 2: of his son, Hunter, a troubled drug addict who tried

2378
02:03:58,600 --> 02:04:01,720
Speaker 2: and largely failed to use his father's named secure wealth

2379
02:04:01,840 --> 02:04:06,080
Speaker 2: and standing for himself. Hunter's troubles have been tremendously embarrassing

2380
02:04:06,160 --> 02:04:08,400
Speaker 2: to his father, but up in front of the country

2381
02:04:08,480 --> 02:04:11,280
Speaker 2: and world, Biden refused to throw his son under the bus.

2382
02:04:11,800 --> 02:04:14,800
Speaker 2: He embraced him and expressed the kind of unconditional love

2383
02:04:14,920 --> 02:04:18,960
Speaker 2: that is utterly alien to men like Trump and Musk. Biden,

2384
02:04:19,120 --> 02:04:20,920
Speaker 2: for all the evil that he has done in the

2385
02:04:21,120 --> 02:04:23,960
Speaker 2: raw selfishness that allowed him to reach the presidency in

2386
02:04:24,040 --> 02:04:26,640
Speaker 2: the first place. Is a man who loves his son.

2387
02:04:27,320 --> 02:04:30,720
Speaker 2: Most importantly, he loves Hunter as Hunter and not purely

2388
02:04:30,880 --> 02:04:34,640
Speaker 2: as an extension of Joe Biden. There's an excellent series

2389
02:04:34,680 --> 02:04:37,440
Speaker 2: of articles out in The Atlantic right now by Tim Alberta,

2390
02:04:37,480 --> 02:04:41,080
Speaker 2: who might be the finest political journalist writing today. Tim

2391
02:04:41,160 --> 02:04:43,520
Speaker 2: had the good instincts to look behind the scenes at

2392
02:04:43,560 --> 02:04:47,080
Speaker 2: the team Trump picked to orchestrate his twenty twenty four campaign,

2393
02:04:47,480 --> 02:04:50,160
Speaker 2: and he's delivered deep reporting about why they've made some

2394
02:04:50,320 --> 02:04:54,160
Speaker 2: of the baffling decisions that they've made. Chief among bafflements

2395
02:04:54,280 --> 02:04:56,760
Speaker 2: was the selection of j. D. Vance as Vice President.

2396
02:04:57,400 --> 02:04:59,920
Speaker 2: Vance barely won his seat in Congress with the help

2397
02:05:00,080 --> 02:05:02,680
Speaker 2: of tens of millions of teal dollars. He is a

2398
02:05:02,840 --> 02:05:06,160
Speaker 2: liar without principle who has repeatedly expressed his desire to

2399
02:05:06,240 --> 02:05:08,760
Speaker 2: tear up the Constitution and usher in a new red

2400
02:05:08,920 --> 02:05:12,360
Speaker 2: caesar to bring this nation to heal under men like him.

2401
02:05:13,120 --> 02:05:16,120
Speaker 2: I watched Vance's speech at the RNC live at a

2402
02:05:16,200 --> 02:05:19,560
Speaker 2: Heritage Foundation party, surrounded by the rightest of the right,

2403
02:05:20,160 --> 02:05:22,600
Speaker 2: not one of them offered a single word of praise.

2404
02:05:23,040 --> 02:05:23,360
Speaker 1: Vance.

2405
02:05:23,560 --> 02:05:27,160
Speaker 2: Was that bad JD is the sort of pick Trump's

2406
02:05:27,160 --> 02:05:30,480
Speaker 2: handlers were sure that they could afford to make. Vance

2407
02:05:30,480 --> 02:05:33,480
Speaker 2: would bring the Silicon Valley billionaire set to the table,

2408
02:05:33,880 --> 02:05:36,680
Speaker 2: open up their purse strings, convince them they were welcome

2409
02:05:36,800 --> 02:05:39,760
Speaker 2: in the new ruling class. Sure he wouldn't bring any votes,

2410
02:05:40,080 --> 02:05:42,760
Speaker 2: But a week ago, running against Sleepy Joe, the sick

2411
02:05:42,840 --> 02:05:46,040
Speaker 2: man of US politics, Trump's team felt they had votes

2412
02:05:46,080 --> 02:05:50,200
Speaker 2: to spare. Well. Now the worm has turned. The Poles

2413
02:05:50,320 --> 02:05:53,000
Speaker 2: still point to an election that is deeply in doubt.

2414
02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:56,840
Speaker 2: But Poles don't say everything. The panic of their responses

2415
02:05:56,880 --> 02:06:00,240
Speaker 2: to Biden's stepping down, the chaotic spree of hate, to

2416
02:06:00,320 --> 02:06:02,440
Speaker 2: a single truth. They don't know what to do.

2417
02:06:02,600 --> 02:06:02,760
Speaker 1: Now.

2418
02:06:03,240 --> 02:06:07,080
Speaker 2: The monsters are off balance, stumbling, unable to find the ground.

2419
02:06:07,800 --> 02:06:09,720
Speaker 2: We can see some evidence of this and the fact

2420
02:06:09,760 --> 02:06:12,480
Speaker 2: that Musk just came out and canceled has promised forty

2421
02:06:12,520 --> 02:06:16,200
Speaker 2: five million dollar monthly donations to the Trump campaign. This

2422
02:06:16,400 --> 02:06:19,680
Speaker 2: is the first chain of solidarity between our enemies to crumble,

2423
02:06:19,760 --> 02:06:22,560
Speaker 2: and it won't be the last. Every time that happens,

2424
02:06:22,880 --> 02:06:26,520
Speaker 2: we get more room to move and maneuver. The fascists

2425
02:06:26,600 --> 02:06:29,080
Speaker 2: may well regain their footing and time to crush us

2426
02:06:29,480 --> 02:06:31,640
Speaker 2: But something else has happened in the last few days

2427
02:06:31,680 --> 02:06:35,200
Speaker 2: as well. People, we humans, as a vast, blurry mob,

2428
02:06:35,600 --> 02:06:38,000
Speaker 2: have started to remember how many of us there are,

2429
02:06:38,360 --> 02:06:41,000
Speaker 2: and how much potential the weight of our numbers gives us.

2430
02:06:41,400 --> 02:06:43,520
Speaker 2: We have started to reconnect with each other, and that

2431
02:06:43,600 --> 02:06:46,640
Speaker 2: has also opened up possibilities that did not exist before.

2432
02:06:47,280 --> 02:06:49,880
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris and the Democratic Party aren't going to bring

2433
02:06:49,920 --> 02:06:52,440
Speaker 2: an end to global capitalism or drive a stake into

2434
02:06:52,440 --> 02:06:55,120
Speaker 2: the heart of the oil and gas industry. There remains

2435
02:06:55,320 --> 02:06:57,920
Speaker 2: so much else to do, so many other fights ahead

2436
02:06:57,920 --> 02:07:00,560
Speaker 2: of us. But if we can crush the Republicplicans here,

2437
02:07:00,720 --> 02:07:03,040
Speaker 2: it will be the fourth election cycle in a row

2438
02:07:03,280 --> 02:07:05,720
Speaker 2: where the right made a war on trans people, on

2439
02:07:05,840 --> 02:07:08,760
Speaker 2: the concept of diversity, on any kind of open, secular

2440
02:07:08,840 --> 02:07:12,360
Speaker 2: society the core of their electoral efforts, and it will

2441
02:07:12,400 --> 02:07:14,800
Speaker 2: be the fourth time that they have done that and lost.

2442
02:07:15,760 --> 02:07:18,280
Speaker 2: If we break their lines and send them fleeing into

2443
02:07:18,320 --> 02:07:20,920
Speaker 2: the hills, we have an opportunity to shatter their power

2444
02:07:21,200 --> 02:07:23,920
Speaker 2: and use the momentum of that victory to start building

2445
02:07:24,040 --> 02:07:27,520
Speaker 2: something better. There's no cleaner, easy route to a better future,

2446
02:07:27,600 --> 02:07:29,560
Speaker 2: but our chances are a hell of a lot better.

2447
02:07:29,720 --> 02:07:31,960
Speaker 2: The more of us that stay alive, and the more

2448
02:07:32,040 --> 02:07:35,160
Speaker 2: scattered and frightened that we can make our enemies. Our

2449
02:07:35,240 --> 02:07:38,800
Speaker 2: strength has always come from solidarity, from the understanding that

2450
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:40,760
Speaker 2: we need each other and that we are part of

2451
02:07:40,840 --> 02:07:44,000
Speaker 2: each other. The Putins and Trumps and Musks and Teals

2452
02:07:44,040 --> 02:07:46,120
Speaker 2: of the world are of course a part of humanity

2453
02:07:46,160 --> 02:07:49,600
Speaker 2: as well, but they are incapable of seeing or accepting that.

2454
02:07:50,160 --> 02:07:53,160
Speaker 2: And so long as that is the case, we outnumber them.

2455
02:07:53,680 --> 02:07:56,160
Speaker 2: So long as that is the case, we can win.

2456
02:08:09,960 --> 02:08:13,000
Speaker 7: It could happen here. It's it could happen here at

2457
02:08:13,040 --> 02:08:17,560
Speaker 7: the podcasts that is about. I don't know how everyone

2458
02:08:17,640 --> 02:08:19,920
Speaker 7: hates trans people and how this has become a sort

2459
02:08:19,920 --> 02:08:23,400
Speaker 7: of cross partisan thing. I'm your host, Bio Wong. We

2460
02:08:23,800 --> 02:08:26,400
Speaker 7: are we have been doing. Oh god, I don't even

2461
02:08:26,520 --> 02:08:30,160
Speaker 7: know what sort of number of RNC episodes are going

2462
02:08:30,200 --> 02:08:32,800
Speaker 7: to have come out before this thing before you hear

2463
02:08:32,920 --> 02:08:36,880
Speaker 7: this episode. But we are once again turning away from

2464
02:08:36,920 --> 02:08:40,520
Speaker 7: their republic, from the sort of chaos and despair of

2465
02:08:40,560 --> 02:08:42,920
Speaker 7: the Republican Party to turn towards the chaos and despair

2466
02:08:42,960 --> 02:08:46,440
Speaker 7: of the Democratic Party. Yeah, we're gonna specifically be talking

2467
02:08:46,480 --> 02:08:50,440
Speaker 7: about a series of what I think we're kind of

2468
02:08:50,560 --> 02:08:53,560
Speaker 7: high profile fights in trans circles over sort of the

2469
02:08:53,600 --> 02:08:58,120
Speaker 7: administration very publicly starting to write off trans kids. I

2470
02:08:58,120 --> 02:09:00,640
Speaker 7: don't think it got that much news attention because, as

2471
02:09:00,680 --> 02:09:02,560
Speaker 7: you may have noticed, it is, Yeah, a lot of

2472
02:09:02,600 --> 02:09:05,400
Speaker 7: this is by very specifically Biden administration stuff. We are

2473
02:09:05,440 --> 02:09:07,480
Speaker 7: recording the Sunday Warning the morning of the twenty first.

2474
02:09:07,640 --> 02:09:09,200
Speaker 7: There is a real chance that by the end of

2475
02:09:09,240 --> 02:09:12,560
Speaker 7: the day Biden is no longer the nominee. So we'll

2476
02:09:12,760 --> 02:09:15,200
Speaker 7: get into that a little bit, but as of right now,

2477
02:09:15,240 --> 02:09:18,120
Speaker 7: he's still the guy, and he is fucking us. So, yeah,

2478
02:09:18,200 --> 02:09:20,240
Speaker 7: with you to talk about this is Karin Green, who

2479
02:09:20,280 --> 02:09:23,560
Speaker 7: we have had on the show before. Is a trans

2480
02:09:23,640 --> 02:09:28,720
Speaker 7: policy expert of many organizations and much experience, and yeah,

2481
02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:30,360
Speaker 7: welcome back on this. Welcome back to the show.

2482
02:09:30,760 --> 02:09:31,920
Speaker 1: Hey, thanks to having a mea.

2483
02:09:33,160 --> 02:09:36,000
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's kind of fun to come back on to

2484
02:09:36,040 --> 02:09:38,040
Speaker 9: talk more about this, because the timing of when you

2485
02:09:38,120 --> 02:09:40,320
Speaker 9: had me on last time was pretty much ext just

2486
02:09:40,440 --> 02:09:43,000
Speaker 9: before a montha four he went public with this new

2487
02:09:43,040 --> 02:09:44,040
Speaker 9: stuff we're going to talk about.

2488
02:09:45,040 --> 02:09:47,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, so the last time we were talking about this,

2489
02:09:47,400 --> 02:09:50,080
Speaker 7: it was largely about stuff that was kind of like

2490
02:09:50,320 --> 02:09:52,800
Speaker 7: plausibly deniable for the administration, It was a lot of

2491
02:09:52,840 --> 02:09:56,560
Speaker 7: sort of stuff buried in bureaucratic medutia. Whether or not

2492
02:09:56,720 --> 02:09:59,560
Speaker 7: any of that stuff even exists anymore given recent Supreme

2493
02:09:59,600 --> 02:10:03,320
Speaker 7: Court rule that have effectively annihilated the administrative state. Who knows.

2494
02:10:04,200 --> 02:10:07,800
Speaker 7: But now having had the Supreme Court get their ability

2495
02:10:08,200 --> 02:10:10,520
Speaker 7: to do this sort of non plausibly, they have full

2496
02:10:10,600 --> 02:10:13,560
Speaker 7: lot gone on the record against trans kits. So I

2497
02:10:13,600 --> 02:10:15,800
Speaker 7: guess I want to start there. Can can you sort

2498
02:10:15,800 --> 02:10:18,600
Speaker 7: of explain what happened with this New York Times story

2499
02:10:18,680 --> 02:10:20,400
Speaker 7: that kind of kicked this whole saga off.

2500
02:10:21,240 --> 02:10:24,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, So kind of the context is I'm a trans

2501
02:10:24,680 --> 02:10:27,800
Speaker 9: policy analyst. It's what I do that unfortunately are not

2502
02:10:27,840 --> 02:10:29,960
Speaker 9: that many of us in the country, and all those

2503
02:10:30,000 --> 02:10:31,680
Speaker 9: of us, many of us are still employed in the

2504
02:10:31,680 --> 02:10:33,760
Speaker 9: movement organization, so they can't talk about this stuff humbly.

2505
02:10:33,840 --> 02:10:36,720
Speaker 9: But so he's been putting out the regulations that the

2506
02:10:36,760 --> 02:10:40,520
Speaker 9: Biden administration has been putting out are not good regulations

2507
02:10:40,560 --> 02:10:43,880
Speaker 9: for trans people, right, But it's hard to help people

2508
02:10:44,040 --> 02:10:47,760
Speaker 9: understand that they're transphobic because it's a five hundred page

2509
02:10:47,800 --> 02:10:50,720
Speaker 9: regulation and so you know, it's kind of wonky and

2510
02:10:50,760 --> 02:10:54,240
Speaker 9: a little weird, and if there is comms like the

2511
02:10:54,280 --> 02:10:57,320
Speaker 9: Biden administration and the orgs have been putting out calling

2512
02:10:57,400 --> 02:10:59,840
Speaker 9: him pro trans and all this stuff. There's a big

2513
02:11:00,040 --> 02:11:02,120
Speaker 9: barrier to overcome there with a wonky stuff like that.

2514
02:11:03,080 --> 02:11:05,360
Speaker 9: But what happened a couple of days after the debate,

2515
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:09,960
Speaker 9: which I'm sure everyone saw, or if you didn't didn't

2516
02:11:09,960 --> 02:11:12,120
Speaker 9: watch it live, you realized in a horror that you

2517
02:11:12,200 --> 02:11:14,840
Speaker 9: now had to watch it to understand what this country

2518
02:11:14,920 --> 02:11:19,360
Speaker 9: is going through. They there was some initial reporting around

2519
02:11:19,600 --> 02:11:23,760
Speaker 9: how the WPATH Standards of Care Version eight came out.

2520
02:11:23,840 --> 02:11:26,720
Speaker 9: So WPATH is the World Professional Association for Transfer or Health.

2521
02:11:27,240 --> 02:11:29,040
Speaker 9: It is either last year or the year before they

2522
02:11:29,360 --> 02:11:32,280
Speaker 9: updated the Standards of Care seven to Standards of Care eight.

2523
02:11:32,600 --> 02:11:34,320
Speaker 9: This is a little background, sorry, And at the time

2524
02:11:34,960 --> 02:11:40,480
Speaker 9: there was discussion among WPATH members, doctors and kind of

2525
02:11:40,520 --> 02:11:45,640
Speaker 9: policy people to some degree about whether mentioning kind of

2526
02:11:46,080 --> 02:11:50,680
Speaker 9: rough ages for what time, what age people tend to

2527
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:54,080
Speaker 9: start certain treatments like period blockers, hormones, that kind of thing,

2528
02:11:55,120 --> 02:11:58,840
Speaker 9: what kind of normal age ranges those things happening. We

2529
02:11:58,960 --> 02:12:02,680
Speaker 9: know from years years of advocacy and work and activism

2530
02:12:02,880 --> 02:12:06,760
Speaker 9: is that if somebody writes something like those things down,

2531
02:12:06,880 --> 02:12:09,880
Speaker 9: even if they present it as a kind of loose

2532
02:12:09,920 --> 02:12:13,720
Speaker 9: guideline or this is where things typically fall. Policymakers will

2533
02:12:13,720 --> 02:12:16,480
Speaker 9: write that stuff into law and rig and take what

2534
02:12:16,640 --> 02:12:20,600
Speaker 9: is supposed to give doctors and patients, you know, room

2535
02:12:20,720 --> 02:12:22,920
Speaker 9: to figure out what works best for them, and make

2536
02:12:22,960 --> 02:12:26,680
Speaker 9: it a very strict regime. And so transactivists did not

2537
02:12:26,800 --> 02:12:29,960
Speaker 9: want ages in the wpath Sock eight for that reason.

2538
02:12:30,560 --> 02:12:34,240
Speaker 9: And in the one and only instance of pro trans

2539
02:12:34,280 --> 02:12:37,560
Speaker 9: advocacy that I'm aware of her ever engaging in Rachel

2540
02:12:37,640 --> 02:12:44,080
Speaker 9: Levine in AHHS kind of advocated with wpath not to

2541
02:12:44,200 --> 02:12:46,120
Speaker 9: include those age ranges in it.

2542
02:12:46,320 --> 02:12:46,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2543
02:12:46,720 --> 02:12:51,560
Speaker 7: Levine, by the way, is like the o WT health secretary.

2544
02:12:51,640 --> 02:12:51,880
Speaker 3: I think.

2545
02:12:51,960 --> 02:12:55,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, she's like the only trans like she's the.

2546
02:12:55,960 --> 02:12:59,360
Speaker 9: Highest ranked trans like you know, White House official ever

2547
02:13:00,200 --> 02:13:00,800
Speaker 9: of maggitude.

2548
02:13:00,840 --> 02:13:03,720
Speaker 7: She's like she's like the only transperson, like openly transperson

2549
02:13:03,880 --> 02:13:07,360
Speaker 7: possibly in history to ever like get to a position

2550
02:13:07,680 --> 02:13:10,520
Speaker 7: where she has some authority and she doesn't use it

2551
02:13:10,800 --> 02:13:12,640
Speaker 7: ever except this one time.

2552
02:13:13,000 --> 02:13:15,920
Speaker 9: It's a bit disappointment too. Was I was her biggest

2553
02:13:15,960 --> 02:13:19,240
Speaker 9: fan in the world because she passed. She wrote Pennsylvania's

2554
02:13:19,280 --> 02:13:23,520
Speaker 9: Narkann Standing Order, and I based my law in Louisiana

2555
02:13:23,760 --> 02:13:26,880
Speaker 9: legalizing Narkhan and our subsequent standing order on hers. So

2556
02:13:26,920 --> 02:13:28,720
Speaker 9: I thought it was really cool that Transforms had done

2557
02:13:28,760 --> 02:13:30,680
Speaker 9: this in both places, and I really really was a

2558
02:13:30,720 --> 02:13:33,800
Speaker 9: big and then she just crickets nothing. It is all

2559
02:13:33,800 --> 02:13:37,280
Speaker 9: this terrible stuff happens. So that's the context in which

2560
02:13:37,320 --> 02:13:42,000
Speaker 9: the New York Times was reporting. They somebody had gotten,

2561
02:13:42,400 --> 02:13:44,520
Speaker 9: like some bad guys had gotten some of the emails

2562
02:13:44,680 --> 02:13:48,280
Speaker 9: between Levin and w Path and were like trying to

2563
02:13:48,320 --> 02:13:51,000
Speaker 9: make it into a scandal, right, And they and the

2564
02:13:51,080 --> 02:13:56,480
Speaker 9: bad guys misrepresented kind of what the issue and discussion

2565
02:13:56,640 --> 02:13:58,880
Speaker 9: was about, right, So we discussed what it was, but

2566
02:13:58,920 --> 02:14:01,640
Speaker 9: the way that they would present it as, oh, you know,

2567
02:14:01,960 --> 02:14:07,120
Speaker 9: w Path was trying to limit treatments to kids being

2568
02:14:07,440 --> 02:14:09,120
Speaker 9: you know, old enough of a certain age, which is

2569
02:14:09,200 --> 02:14:11,160
Speaker 9: not what they were doing. And they were trying to

2570
02:14:11,240 --> 02:14:14,400
Speaker 9: present Levine as trying to get rid of those so

2571
02:14:14,480 --> 02:14:16,800
Speaker 9: that five year olds could have surgery or whatever. It's so,

2572
02:14:17,040 --> 02:14:20,680
Speaker 9: you know, just very very insincere. But so the media

2573
02:14:20,760 --> 02:14:22,800
Speaker 9: was kind of reporting just on that because they love

2574
02:14:23,320 --> 02:14:23,880
Speaker 9: muck breaking.

2575
02:14:24,800 --> 02:14:27,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, And partially the other thing we should mention it

2576
02:14:27,320 --> 02:14:30,320
Speaker 7: is it was really it was extremely hard to figure

2577
02:14:30,360 --> 02:14:32,520
Speaker 7: out what was going on for the issue reporting because

2578
02:14:32,520 --> 02:14:35,760
Speaker 7: the New York Times, instead of employing trans journalists, they

2579
02:14:35,760 --> 02:14:38,520
Speaker 7: employed transphobic journalists. And the thing about transpherbic journalists, they

2580
02:14:38,520 --> 02:14:41,000
Speaker 7: don't fucking understand policy at all. Day They're like, they're

2581
02:14:41,040 --> 02:14:43,240
Speaker 7: absolute fucking clouds. These people have no idea what the

2582
02:14:43,280 --> 02:14:45,840
Speaker 7: fuck they're talking about, and so you know, when they're

2583
02:14:45,880 --> 02:14:49,879
Speaker 7: trying to write a story that's about like leaked technical

2584
02:14:50,000 --> 02:14:52,960
Speaker 7: policy documents, they have no fucking idea what they're doing,

2585
02:14:53,240 --> 02:14:56,880
Speaker 7: and the reporting is gibberish. It's like I was trying

2586
02:14:56,880 --> 02:14:58,960
Speaker 7: to understand it. And this is a real issue because

2587
02:14:59,520 --> 02:15:04,880
Speaker 7: the only the source we had was this document of

2588
02:15:05,360 --> 02:15:08,760
Speaker 7: this New York Times writer who like couldn't like the

2589
02:15:08,800 --> 02:15:10,880
Speaker 7: New York Times writer who like couldn't find the back

2590
02:15:10,920 --> 02:15:12,840
Speaker 7: of their hand with the map right trying to like

2591
02:15:13,200 --> 02:15:14,800
Speaker 7: write out these skinned emails.

2592
02:15:15,560 --> 02:15:18,440
Speaker 9: I'm convinced sis people don't even understand that they don't

2593
02:15:18,440 --> 02:15:20,720
Speaker 9: know what they're talking about, because I think they just

2594
02:15:20,920 --> 02:15:24,120
Speaker 9: inherently feel like, oh, I have a gender, therefore I

2595
02:15:24,240 --> 02:15:25,400
Speaker 9: know everything about gender.

2596
02:15:26,680 --> 02:15:29,400
Speaker 7: It's like you know, and like I I I, and

2597
02:15:29,760 --> 02:15:33,400
Speaker 7: it's this is like mostly kind of like find ish.

2598
02:15:33,480 --> 02:15:36,120
Speaker 7: But the problem is when you have you know, when

2599
02:15:36,160 --> 02:15:39,960
Speaker 7: you have CIS journalists who don't know anything about trans

2600
02:15:40,320 --> 02:15:42,480
Speaker 7: like people at all, who in a lot of places

2601
02:15:42,560 --> 02:15:47,120
Speaker 7: don't think trans people exist trying to write these policy things,

2602
02:15:47,280 --> 02:15:49,320
Speaker 7: it's they they have nothing.

2603
02:15:49,600 --> 02:15:52,440
Speaker 9: And yeah, so it wasn't presented super clearly, and so

2604
02:15:53,120 --> 02:15:57,200
Speaker 9: other people had questions, some justified, some based on misunder

2605
02:15:57,280 --> 02:16:00,320
Speaker 9: that misunderstanding, some not. But anyway, there was additional kind

2606
02:16:00,320 --> 02:16:03,920
Speaker 9: of back and forth between the media and the White House.

2607
02:16:03,960 --> 02:16:07,560
Speaker 9: They were asking about it, and in that the White

2608
02:16:07,600 --> 02:16:11,680
Speaker 9: House at one point told them that they opposed surgery

2609
02:16:11,920 --> 02:16:17,760
Speaker 9: for transgender youth. And then obviously that is, at least publicly,

2610
02:16:17,840 --> 02:16:20,840
Speaker 9: that is a new position for the President who has

2611
02:16:22,520 --> 02:16:25,560
Speaker 9: has been called not by me but by other people,

2612
02:16:26,000 --> 02:16:29,000
Speaker 9: you know, one hundred percent pro trans super great ally

2613
02:16:29,120 --> 02:16:32,200
Speaker 9: his entire administration. I disagree with that, but other people

2614
02:16:32,280 --> 02:16:34,240
Speaker 9: have been saying that for a long time. And so

2615
02:16:34,560 --> 02:16:37,440
Speaker 9: that took a lot of people by surprise and was

2616
02:16:37,480 --> 02:16:39,440
Speaker 9: a big kind of kurf lefvel. And so that's kind

2617
02:16:39,440 --> 02:16:42,080
Speaker 9: of the jumping off point for where we're going here.

2618
02:16:42,640 --> 02:16:43,480
Speaker 1: And so that happened.

2619
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:47,320
Speaker 9: That came out on a Friday in the New York Times,

2620
02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:53,240
Speaker 9: that the White House opposed surgery for trans miners, and

2621
02:16:54,520 --> 02:16:59,400
Speaker 9: nobody talked there like. There were no responses from the orgs,

2622
02:17:00,200 --> 02:17:03,320
Speaker 9: There was no additional reporting, no follow up from.

2623
02:17:03,160 --> 02:17:03,680
Speaker 1: The White House.

2624
02:17:04,360 --> 02:17:10,080
Speaker 9: That Friday, not that Saturday, not that Sunday, although that

2625
02:17:10,280 --> 02:17:16,560
Speaker 9: Sunday Sunday evening, the heads of three national large national

2626
02:17:16,680 --> 02:17:23,040
Speaker 9: LGBTQ advocacy orgs, HRC, Family Equality Council, and National LGBTQ

2627
02:17:23,200 --> 02:17:28,760
Speaker 9: Task Force went on all three together an MSNBC show.

2628
02:17:29,640 --> 02:17:32,240
Speaker 9: The host, I don't remember his name, but he has

2629
02:17:32,240 --> 02:17:35,600
Speaker 9: an MSNBC show, writes for Washington Post and then also

2630
02:17:36,240 --> 02:17:40,200
Speaker 9: contributes to PBS News Hour Right. And so none of

2631
02:17:40,280 --> 02:17:43,400
Speaker 9: these three people that we pay to advocate for us

2632
02:17:44,680 --> 02:17:50,680
Speaker 9: or this journalist brought up this very fresh, very pertinent,

2633
02:17:50,800 --> 02:17:55,680
Speaker 9: very relevant, new White House position. They just talked about

2634
02:17:56,080 --> 02:17:57,879
Speaker 9: how important it is to vote and how much fun

2635
02:17:57,920 --> 02:18:00,640
Speaker 9: they had at Pride parades instead garbage, right, And so

2636
02:18:01,000 --> 02:18:03,640
Speaker 9: it was very weird to me that these three people

2637
02:18:03,920 --> 02:18:09,840
Speaker 9: who represent lgbt obviously organizations would not immediately vocally condemned

2638
02:18:09,920 --> 02:18:12,960
Speaker 9: that kind of anti transtance. And it also blew my

2639
02:18:13,040 --> 02:18:16,600
Speaker 9: mind that this journalist must be like allergic to scoops

2640
02:18:16,800 --> 02:18:20,160
Speaker 9: or something like why yeah, why wouldn't you like that's

2641
02:18:20,200 --> 02:18:21,000
Speaker 9: your chance right there?

2642
02:18:21,480 --> 02:18:23,480
Speaker 7: I mean I I genuine and you think the journalists

2643
02:18:23,520 --> 02:18:26,840
Speaker 7: didn't know because like this stuff didn't break out of

2644
02:18:27,720 --> 02:18:32,480
Speaker 7: like a very small sort of like transphere by this point, right.

2645
02:18:32,520 --> 02:18:34,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it's in the New York Times.

2646
02:18:34,360 --> 02:18:38,199
Speaker 7: You're given like but like like nobody cares about like people.

2647
02:18:38,240 --> 02:18:40,320
Speaker 7: People don't care about us, like you. You would think

2648
02:18:40,400 --> 02:18:43,400
Speaker 7: that these people would know, But like I genuinely don't

2649
02:18:43,440 --> 02:18:45,320
Speaker 7: even know if this person had any idea what was happening.

2650
02:18:45,360 --> 02:18:50,120
Speaker 7: Because I trust journalists to write about trans people about

2651
02:18:50,160 --> 02:18:52,560
Speaker 7: as much as I trust myself to be able to

2652
02:18:52,600 --> 02:18:53,320
Speaker 7: bench for us a car.

2653
02:18:53,959 --> 02:18:57,440
Speaker 9: So you know, yeah, so that came and went Sunday

2654
02:18:57,480 --> 02:19:00,760
Speaker 9: evening Nope, And I was going in the whole time,

2655
02:19:00,959 --> 02:19:04,920
Speaker 9: right because for me as a trans policy analyst, you know,

2656
02:19:05,080 --> 02:19:08,560
Speaker 9: I have I've been I've noticed and been and been

2657
02:19:08,600 --> 02:19:11,959
Speaker 9: calling Biden's transphobic rags and executive words and stuff problematic

2658
02:19:12,000 --> 02:19:14,600
Speaker 9: and transphobic since I first noticed it and picked up

2659
02:19:14,640 --> 02:19:16,640
Speaker 9: on it, which was you know, two or three years

2660
02:19:16,640 --> 02:19:21,720
Speaker 9: ago now. And so for me, it was a very

2661
02:19:21,920 --> 02:19:25,920
Speaker 9: kind of complicated feeling of Okay, Now, at least other

2662
02:19:26,000 --> 02:19:28,560
Speaker 9: people don't have to take my word about the rags.

2663
02:19:28,640 --> 02:19:30,960
Speaker 9: There's something they can look at and see it themselves.

2664
02:19:31,720 --> 02:19:33,960
Speaker 9: But I was also, you know, completely threw off my

2665
02:19:34,480 --> 02:19:36,440
Speaker 9: sleep schedule. I was bouncing off the walls, going and

2666
02:19:36,480 --> 02:19:41,280
Speaker 9: seing and trying to you know, or organize responses. And

2667
02:19:41,360 --> 02:19:44,240
Speaker 9: so the first org actually I think I believe it

2668
02:19:44,360 --> 02:19:49,560
Speaker 9: was HRC, issued a statement Monday night and it was

2669
02:19:49,600 --> 02:19:53,560
Speaker 9: a decent statement. I might have critiques of them whatever,

2670
02:19:54,040 --> 02:19:56,680
Speaker 9: And then the rest of the orgs kind of didn't

2671
02:19:57,280 --> 02:20:00,720
Speaker 9: issue statements until Tuesday evening, and so so that Tuesday

2672
02:20:00,760 --> 02:20:06,320
Speaker 9: also the White House issued a statement that to clarify

2673
02:20:06,440 --> 02:20:10,360
Speaker 9: their position, and the statement actually made it worse. So

2674
02:20:10,520 --> 02:20:15,240
Speaker 9: what the statement said was that they do oppose surgery

2675
02:20:15,400 --> 02:20:19,000
Speaker 9: for transgender youth. So they reiterated that, and then it

2676
02:20:19,080 --> 02:20:23,800
Speaker 9: went on to say, however, we continue to support gender

2677
02:20:23,879 --> 02:20:28,360
Speaker 9: affirming care for youth, such as mental health care.

2678
02:20:30,120 --> 02:20:30,480
Speaker 1: Period.

2679
02:20:30,800 --> 02:20:33,040
Speaker 9: I meant it was a common in theas other but

2680
02:20:33,240 --> 02:20:35,480
Speaker 9: they didn't list other things that they supported, right, so, like,

2681
02:20:35,560 --> 02:20:36,840
Speaker 9: the only thing they put in the list that they

2682
02:20:36,840 --> 02:20:40,400
Speaker 9: supported was mental health care, which, to a policy person, again,

2683
02:20:41,240 --> 02:20:43,600
Speaker 9: you're not sneaking those things past me. If you're talking

2684
02:20:43,600 --> 02:20:45,880
Speaker 9: about trans healthcare and the only thing that you say

2685
02:20:46,360 --> 02:20:49,920
Speaker 9: that you support is mental health care, I'm very worried.

2686
02:20:50,200 --> 02:20:54,440
Speaker 9: I'm very concerned, right, because if you're pro trans and

2687
02:20:54,520 --> 02:20:58,080
Speaker 9: you support transaccess to healthcare, it is not complicated or

2688
02:20:58,200 --> 02:21:01,240
Speaker 9: hard or controversial for you to say, yeah, you know,

2689
02:21:01,320 --> 02:21:03,160
Speaker 9: I support trans people and their access to health care.

2690
02:21:03,160 --> 02:21:06,560
Speaker 9: They should have access to therapy, hormones, pubity blockers, surgery,

2691
02:21:06,800 --> 02:21:09,560
Speaker 9: whatever they need. Like, it's not complex there, right, But

2692
02:21:09,680 --> 02:21:12,160
Speaker 9: they didn't do that, and so to me that felt

2693
02:21:12,600 --> 02:21:16,040
Speaker 9: even worse than kind of the initial position because it

2694
02:21:16,160 --> 02:21:21,600
Speaker 9: signaled to me that there's likely we're likely kind of

2695
02:21:21,680 --> 02:21:27,039
Speaker 9: losing them on not just surgery, it's all this other stuff.

2696
02:21:27,080 --> 02:21:33,039
Speaker 9: And so two hours later that statement was updated, revised

2697
02:21:33,879 --> 02:21:37,000
Speaker 9: and it took out saying they support mental health care

2698
02:21:37,520 --> 02:21:41,360
Speaker 9: and was changed to say we support gender affirming care

2699
02:21:42,200 --> 02:21:45,600
Speaker 9: like a continuum of care and used the words continuum

2700
02:21:45,640 --> 02:21:49,360
Speaker 9: of care instead of mental health care. Now that doesn't

2701
02:21:49,800 --> 02:21:52,640
Speaker 9: that feels like tripling down to me, because the problem

2702
02:21:53,640 --> 02:21:57,360
Speaker 9: was that it was very overt what you left out,

2703
02:21:58,080 --> 02:22:00,720
Speaker 9: and you had the opportunity to go back and fix it,

2704
02:22:01,000 --> 02:22:03,560
Speaker 9: and then you continued. You just made new words that

2705
02:22:03,800 --> 02:22:06,960
Speaker 9: very overtly leave out the kind of things that we

2706
02:22:07,000 --> 02:22:10,680
Speaker 9: would need reassurance about, right, And so that's kind of

2707
02:22:10,720 --> 02:22:13,400
Speaker 9: where things were at at that point.

2708
02:22:14,360 --> 02:22:16,560
Speaker 7: And yeah, we're gonna let's let's leave it there for

2709
02:22:16,600 --> 02:22:19,360
Speaker 7: a second. You turn to the people who are funding

2710
02:22:19,480 --> 02:22:22,840
Speaker 7: us talking about this, which is the I was gonna say,

2711
02:22:22,879 --> 02:22:25,240
Speaker 7: the noble product products and services. I cannot promise their

2712
02:22:25,280 --> 02:22:28,400
Speaker 7: nobility at all, but the products and service system support

2713
02:22:28,440 --> 02:22:29,120
Speaker 7: this podcast.

2714
02:22:30,560 --> 02:22:31,199
Speaker 3: Here they are.

2715
02:22:42,120 --> 02:22:43,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we are back.

2716
02:22:43,120 --> 02:22:44,800
Speaker 7: And there's one other thing I want to mention before

2717
02:22:44,840 --> 02:22:47,080
Speaker 7: we sort of get into where this went, which is

2718
02:22:47,600 --> 02:22:49,520
Speaker 7: part of the fear that was going on, is that

2719
02:22:49,720 --> 02:22:52,760
Speaker 7: at the same time as this is all happening, Labor

2720
02:22:52,800 --> 02:22:56,480
Speaker 7: has taken power in the UK, and the Labor government

2721
02:22:57,440 --> 02:23:01,320
Speaker 7: they're fucking okay, what what what can what what can

2722
02:23:01,400 --> 02:23:04,960
Speaker 7: I say about the about West streeting that won't get

2723
02:23:05,040 --> 02:23:12,000
Speaker 7: me impaled across there? Militantly transphobic piece of shit. I

2724
02:23:12,040 --> 02:23:15,800
Speaker 7: think it's like their health secretary now, yes, yeah, the

2725
02:23:15,920 --> 02:23:18,920
Speaker 7: masters over there don't forget Yeah, yeah, they're ministers came

2726
02:23:18,959 --> 02:23:20,680
Speaker 7: out and said we're going to ban all children from

2727
02:23:20,680 --> 02:23:22,280
Speaker 7: getting puberty blockers, not.

2728
02:23:22,400 --> 02:23:25,840
Speaker 1: Just on the NHS but all.

2729
02:23:24,840 --> 02:23:28,760
Speaker 7: Private healthcare everyone. Yeah, and this is a this is

2730
02:23:28,800 --> 02:23:31,360
Speaker 7: an absolutely sort of terrifying step. It is going to

2731
02:23:31,400 --> 02:23:34,720
Speaker 7: get a lot of kids killed. Want to reiterate, Yeah,

2732
02:23:34,760 --> 02:23:37,240
Speaker 7: already already has there's a whole scandal over there about

2733
02:23:37,760 --> 02:23:38,920
Speaker 7: like about the number of trus.

2734
02:23:39,400 --> 02:23:41,640
Speaker 9: The Good Law Project has you know, done the research

2735
02:23:41,720 --> 02:23:43,960
Speaker 9: into like NHS minutes and all this stuff, and as

2736
02:23:44,400 --> 02:23:47,040
Speaker 9: thinks that there have been sixteen suicides since this.

2737
02:23:47,840 --> 02:23:50,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I I also want to there's like a

2738
02:23:50,280 --> 02:23:53,039
Speaker 7: sort of debunking thing that's going on that was from

2739
02:23:53,200 --> 02:23:55,520
Speaker 7: data that like that that the party released. I was like, oh,

2740
02:23:55,560 --> 02:23:57,320
Speaker 7: there weren't actually that many suicides. And the thing you

2741
02:23:57,360 --> 02:23:59,280
Speaker 7: have to understand about those numbers is that those numbers

2742
02:23:59,320 --> 02:24:03,240
Speaker 7: don't count people in waitlists, and the waitlists are not

2743
02:24:03,320 --> 02:24:05,800
Speaker 7: the only place that people die, but they kill a

2744
02:24:05,840 --> 02:24:08,080
Speaker 7: lot of people. So I want to sort of like, yeah,

2745
02:24:08,120 --> 02:24:10,840
Speaker 7: we got to get that sort of context in which

2746
02:24:10,879 --> 02:24:12,400
Speaker 7: is we're in this position not.

2747
02:24:12,560 --> 02:24:15,080
Speaker 9: Just streating right the farmers and then there are a

2748
02:24:15,160 --> 02:24:18,160
Speaker 9: whole lot have very vocally transphobic labor MPs.

2749
02:24:18,879 --> 02:24:21,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, and and that you know, that's there's a lot

2750
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:23,800
Speaker 7: of fear that the Democratic Party can sort of take

2751
02:24:23,920 --> 02:24:26,560
Speaker 7: this even more extreme path than the sort of stuff

2752
02:24:26,560 --> 02:24:29,160
Speaker 7: we've been saying. And you know, I'm gonna include the

2753
02:24:29,160 --> 02:24:31,240
Speaker 7: standard thing about puberty blockers, which is we give these

2754
02:24:31,280 --> 02:24:35,200
Speaker 7: We give puberty blockers to like literal like five year

2755
02:24:35,240 --> 02:24:39,160
Speaker 7: old CIS children. They're fine, it's complete, like they're completely safe.

2756
02:24:39,200 --> 02:24:40,640
Speaker 7: There's no there's no downside.

2757
02:24:40,879 --> 02:24:45,039
Speaker 9: Apparently puberty blockers only have dangerous terrifying side effects used

2758
02:24:45,040 --> 02:24:46,800
Speaker 9: and they can tell when they're in a transbody, and

2759
02:24:46,800 --> 02:24:47,280
Speaker 9: it's a fine.

2760
02:24:47,440 --> 02:24:51,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, I only do the bad things. We've created the

2761
02:24:51,480 --> 02:24:55,760
Speaker 7: trends specific bio weapon like you know, so like that

2762
02:24:55,879 --> 02:24:57,640
Speaker 7: this all of this stuff is safe, and it's not

2763
02:24:57,720 --> 02:25:02,080
Speaker 7: only safe, it saves lives, like the difference between you know,

2764
02:25:02,280 --> 02:25:04,360
Speaker 7: like any trans person can tell you, the difference between

2765
02:25:04,520 --> 02:25:07,480
Speaker 7: being on your hormones and being off your hormones is

2766
02:25:07,640 --> 02:25:09,760
Speaker 7: night and day. It is the difference between being alive

2767
02:25:09,879 --> 02:25:12,640
Speaker 7: and not being alive, Like it is the difference between

2768
02:25:12,680 --> 02:25:16,080
Speaker 7: having sort of like a stable like stable interiority and

2769
02:25:17,000 --> 02:25:19,119
Speaker 7: feeling like you don't exist every fucking day.

2770
02:25:19,800 --> 02:25:22,400
Speaker 9: So well, we're not just talking about being on your

2771
02:25:22,520 --> 02:25:24,800
Speaker 9: right hormones, but in this case, we're also talking about

2772
02:25:25,360 --> 02:25:28,600
Speaker 9: preventing being on the wrong hormones, right, which can be

2773
02:25:28,760 --> 02:25:29,880
Speaker 9: even more experciated.

2774
02:25:29,959 --> 02:25:33,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's terrible, Like yeah, and so there's there's this

2775
02:25:33,959 --> 02:25:37,640
Speaker 7: real fear that what we're seeing here is a pivot

2776
02:25:37,720 --> 02:25:39,120
Speaker 7: to UK style stuff. And one of the things I

2777
02:25:39,160 --> 02:25:41,120
Speaker 7: do in the UK that was specifically worrying about that

2778
02:25:41,240 --> 02:25:44,320
Speaker 7: language about mental health care is one of the big

2779
02:25:44,400 --> 02:25:46,640
Speaker 7: turf tactics is pushing this thing where we go, oh, well,

2780
02:25:46,680 --> 02:25:48,680
Speaker 7: we're going to have this like you know, we're gonna

2781
02:25:48,720 --> 02:25:50,800
Speaker 7: give you mental health care. We're going to like help

2782
02:25:50,840 --> 02:25:53,000
Speaker 7: you figure out what your gender is. Is they call

2783
02:25:53,040 --> 02:25:56,680
Speaker 7: it like exploratory care. This is conversion therapy. Yeah, that's

2784
02:25:56,720 --> 02:25:59,400
Speaker 7: what they are talking about. And you know, seeing the

2785
02:25:59,440 --> 02:26:03,800
Speaker 7: White House suddenly pivot to this language that is effectively

2786
02:26:03,920 --> 02:26:07,960
Speaker 7: identical to again the UK thing where they're like, we're

2787
02:26:07,959 --> 02:26:10,280
Speaker 7: going to give these consciversion therapy was terrifying.

2788
02:26:11,120 --> 02:26:11,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2789
02:26:12,360 --> 02:26:15,920
Speaker 9: And then so the I think that the space between

2790
02:26:16,040 --> 02:26:19,160
Speaker 9: that Friday with the New York Times article and then

2791
02:26:19,879 --> 02:26:22,880
Speaker 9: the Tuesday with that clarification, I think the fact that

2792
02:26:23,000 --> 02:26:27,760
Speaker 9: the orgs were so quiet and didn't offer any pushback

2793
02:26:27,800 --> 02:26:32,280
Speaker 9: and didn't organize community to demand better to ban their

2794
02:26:32,360 --> 02:26:34,600
Speaker 9: retract it. Like I think that that's what gave them

2795
02:26:34,640 --> 02:26:37,120
Speaker 9: the room to essentially double and triple down in that

2796
02:26:37,720 --> 02:26:44,760
Speaker 9: statement on Tuesday. And so that coincided, unfortunately with a

2797
02:26:44,840 --> 02:26:48,400
Speaker 9: couple other anti transdevelopments in the Democratic Party in a

2798
02:26:48,520 --> 02:26:51,440
Speaker 9: way that I find very worrying, especially when taken kind

2799
02:26:51,440 --> 02:26:55,520
Speaker 9: of as a constellation. Right, So, that same week, the

2800
02:26:55,840 --> 02:26:58,840
Speaker 9: Senate Armed Services Committee. So the NDAA is a large

2801
02:26:58,879 --> 02:27:03,000
Speaker 9: military funding bill, the National Events Authorization Act, and the

2802
02:27:03,360 --> 02:27:07,360
Speaker 9: House has been passing versions with lots of transphobic riders

2803
02:27:07,480 --> 02:27:09,880
Speaker 9: in them, and then for the last couple of years,

2804
02:27:09,959 --> 02:27:12,720
Speaker 9: the Senate has been taking those out and passing a

2805
02:27:12,800 --> 02:27:14,640
Speaker 9: clean version, and then ultimately it's a clean version of

2806
02:27:14,680 --> 02:27:17,400
Speaker 9: that gets an active Last year, I was very, very

2807
02:27:17,480 --> 02:27:21,360
Speaker 9: worried that we would lose on that and that it

2808
02:27:21,400 --> 02:27:24,280
Speaker 9: would go through with the writers and the implications here.

2809
02:27:24,800 --> 02:27:28,840
Speaker 9: So the DoD Department of Events funds healthcare for the

2810
02:27:28,959 --> 02:27:32,960
Speaker 9: VA and Trycare. I think there's one other smaller program

2811
02:27:33,120 --> 02:27:34,600
Speaker 9: kind of similar that's a different name and effort, but

2812
02:27:34,720 --> 02:27:38,680
Speaker 9: largely VA and tringcare so for active service members and

2813
02:27:38,840 --> 02:27:42,039
Speaker 9: their families and veterans, which is I think I last

2814
02:27:42,120 --> 02:27:44,960
Speaker 9: read like ten million people or something. And so if

2815
02:27:44,959 --> 02:27:48,840
Speaker 9: they cut off public funding for trans healthcare through those programs,

2816
02:27:48,879 --> 02:27:50,560
Speaker 9: a whole lot of people are going to lose it,

2817
02:27:50,640 --> 02:27:52,560
Speaker 9: and we're going to very quickly wind up in a

2818
02:27:52,600 --> 02:27:55,440
Speaker 9: situation like abortion is with the High Amendment, where no

2819
02:27:55,520 --> 02:27:58,400
Speaker 9: public money can be used on our healthcare. And so

2820
02:27:59,480 --> 02:28:01,840
Speaker 9: that week, the same time, the Senate Armed Services Committee

2821
02:28:02,120 --> 02:28:06,240
Speaker 9: had their version of the NDAA, and Committee Joe Manchin

2822
02:28:06,800 --> 02:28:10,720
Speaker 9: voted with Republicans to attach to these transphobic riders to it,

2823
02:28:11,400 --> 02:28:14,840
Speaker 9: and then it was everyone in the committee except for

2824
02:28:15,040 --> 02:28:18,400
Speaker 9: three people. I believe it was Warren, one other Democrat,

2825
02:28:18,520 --> 02:28:20,640
Speaker 9: and I think possibly one Republican who voted against it.

2826
02:28:21,600 --> 02:28:25,000
Speaker 9: But all the other Democrats on the committee voted to

2827
02:28:25,640 --> 02:28:29,879
Speaker 9: pass it out of committee with those transphobic riders, which

2828
02:28:29,959 --> 02:28:35,199
Speaker 9: is terrifying. Yeah, and Senator Kelly has introduced a floor

2829
02:28:35,280 --> 02:28:38,240
Speaker 9: amendment to take those out, but whether his mimit even

2830
02:28:38,280 --> 02:28:41,520
Speaker 9: makes it to the floor, I don't know. And what

2831
02:28:41,640 --> 02:28:43,640
Speaker 9: the vote looks like that like on that, I don't know.

2832
02:28:43,760 --> 02:28:46,160
Speaker 9: So I'm really worried that the NDA will pass with

2833
02:28:46,360 --> 02:28:49,640
Speaker 9: these riders in it, and then subsequent spending bills for

2834
02:28:49,760 --> 02:28:53,480
Speaker 9: other departments will as well. And then simultaneously there's the

2835
02:28:53,520 --> 02:28:57,360
Speaker 9: third thing. Over Biden's term, there have been over he's

2836
02:28:57,400 --> 02:29:00,760
Speaker 9: had over two hundred of his judicial nominees that he's

2837
02:29:00,760 --> 02:29:04,880
Speaker 9: offered up and over his whole term, not a single

2838
02:29:04,959 --> 02:29:08,600
Speaker 9: time has a Democrat opposed one of his judicial nominees.

2839
02:29:09,879 --> 02:29:14,480
Speaker 9: But that week us Off actually opposed one of his

2840
02:29:14,600 --> 02:29:17,680
Speaker 9: judicial nominees over the fact that she had sent a

2841
02:29:17,800 --> 02:29:22,200
Speaker 9: trans woman to women's prison, so specifically a transphobic reason

2842
02:29:22,480 --> 02:29:26,160
Speaker 9: for objecting, and so she didn't denominated. And that's the

2843
02:29:26,200 --> 02:29:28,840
Speaker 9: first time that has happened over Biden's term from what

2844
02:29:28,959 --> 02:29:31,879
Speaker 9: I read, And so there are just lots of these

2845
02:29:32,440 --> 02:29:37,760
Speaker 9: signals that kind of back me up in my feeling

2846
02:29:38,200 --> 02:29:41,800
Speaker 9: that the support that you know, everyone has been pretending

2847
02:29:41,959 --> 02:29:45,120
Speaker 9: that the Democratic Party has for trans people. I mean,

2848
02:29:45,240 --> 02:29:47,480
Speaker 9: I read their eggs, so I know better, but it

2849
02:29:47,640 --> 02:29:52,120
Speaker 9: is not. It is an illusion, right, and when it shatters,

2850
02:29:52,160 --> 02:29:54,320
Speaker 9: it's going to come apart really fast, and people are

2851
02:29:54,360 --> 02:29:57,279
Speaker 9: going to be really surprised by it because our organizations

2852
02:29:57,320 --> 02:29:59,480
Speaker 9: have not been kind of educating people along the way.

2853
02:30:00,080 --> 02:30:01,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna come back and talk more

2854
02:30:01,959 --> 02:30:03,920
Speaker 7: about this, and we're also going to come back very

2855
02:30:04,000 --> 02:30:07,960
Speaker 7: specifically to the trans woman in women's prisons thing, because

2856
02:30:09,200 --> 02:30:12,440
Speaker 7: I really truly do not think since people understand how

2857
02:30:12,480 --> 02:30:15,360
Speaker 7: fucking bad that is. Yeah, we're gonna come back to

2858
02:30:15,440 --> 02:30:29,440
Speaker 7: that after these ads. Yeah, so we're back. Yeah. So

2859
02:30:29,600 --> 02:30:33,520
Speaker 7: I wanted to specifically highlight the prisons thing in the

2860
02:30:33,680 --> 02:30:37,200
Speaker 7: context of you know, Okay, so there's a chance by

2861
02:30:37,200 --> 02:30:38,720
Speaker 7: the time this comes out that Biten is no longer

2862
02:30:38,760 --> 02:30:40,640
Speaker 7: than m me your lips to God tears.

2863
02:30:41,240 --> 02:30:41,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2864
02:30:42,400 --> 02:30:45,520
Speaker 7: The issue with this is that the strongest possibility for

2865
02:30:45,560 --> 02:30:49,840
Speaker 7: replacing him is Kamala Harris. And you know, I'm gonna

2866
02:30:50,000 --> 02:30:54,039
Speaker 7: ask you to explain Kamala Harris's record on trans women

2867
02:30:54,200 --> 02:30:57,120
Speaker 7: in fucking prisons because it is appalling.

2868
02:30:57,760 --> 02:31:01,240
Speaker 9: Because I can never escape these Shipler. I actually worked

2869
02:31:01,280 --> 02:31:06,160
Speaker 9: at TLC while we were suing the State of California. Yeah,

2870
02:31:06,240 --> 02:31:10,880
Speaker 9: Transgender Lassoner TLC. We had to sue the State of

2871
02:31:10,959 --> 02:31:14,200
Speaker 9: California for incarcerated trans people to be able to access

2872
02:31:14,760 --> 02:31:18,600
Speaker 9: healthcare that they deserved, and Kamala Harris, as the age

2873
02:31:18,720 --> 02:31:23,000
Speaker 9: of the State of California, defended the state's position that

2874
02:31:23,080 --> 02:31:25,959
Speaker 9: they did not they did have a right to healthcare.

2875
02:31:26,520 --> 02:31:30,080
Speaker 9: We won, she lost, But so she is not someone

2876
02:31:31,040 --> 02:31:35,560
Speaker 9: that I can ever trust with trans lives, right, especially

2877
02:31:35,600 --> 02:31:39,440
Speaker 9: because there have been other issues, I think marijuana most recently,

2878
02:31:40,280 --> 02:31:44,200
Speaker 9: where she has tried to kind of trumpet that she

2879
02:31:44,320 --> 02:31:48,600
Speaker 9: has used her discretion and not prosecuted certain things or whatever. Right,

2880
02:31:49,640 --> 02:31:52,920
Speaker 9: And that doesn't help me at all, right, because it

2881
02:31:53,000 --> 02:31:55,480
Speaker 9: shows you know, you have prosecutor, you know you have

2882
02:31:55,640 --> 02:31:57,880
Speaker 9: discretion in what cases you take and what you defend

2883
02:31:57,959 --> 02:31:59,640
Speaker 9: and all this stuff, and you used it to prevent

2884
02:31:59,680 --> 02:32:00,200
Speaker 9: trans people.

2885
02:32:00,200 --> 02:32:00,880
Speaker 1: I'm geting healthcare.

2886
02:32:02,320 --> 02:32:04,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I want to also specifically talk about the

2887
02:32:05,440 --> 02:32:08,400
Speaker 7: part about this judge sending a transfer into a women's prison,

2888
02:32:08,480 --> 02:32:10,600
Speaker 7: which is the thing that you should do, because this

2889
02:32:10,760 --> 02:32:14,840
Speaker 7: is the kind of thing that has to be opposed

2890
02:32:14,879 --> 02:32:18,959
Speaker 7: at all costs, because you know, prison is violent enough

2891
02:32:19,000 --> 02:32:23,520
Speaker 7: for everyone, it is even worse for us. And the

2892
02:32:23,600 --> 02:32:27,760
Speaker 7: fact that Democrats are like, you know, it looks like

2893
02:32:27,879 --> 02:32:30,560
Speaker 7: we're seeing the sort of tide break on this and

2894
02:32:30,720 --> 02:32:35,040
Speaker 7: especially specifically on this issue where the consequences are so

2895
02:32:35,280 --> 02:32:38,000
Speaker 7: dire it is, it is extremely bad.

2896
02:32:38,640 --> 02:32:43,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, And so I kind of had the suspicion that

2897
02:32:45,600 --> 02:32:49,080
Speaker 9: there was a deal struck on the NDAA that Democrats

2898
02:32:49,560 --> 02:32:51,560
Speaker 9: And this is solely me speculating, right, I have no

2899
02:32:51,760 --> 02:32:55,400
Speaker 9: insider information about this, speculating that the Democrats kind of

2900
02:32:55,440 --> 02:32:57,480
Speaker 9: accepted a deal on the NDA that there would be

2901
02:32:57,640 --> 02:33:02,199
Speaker 9: some level of anti trans writers that they would accept

2902
02:33:02,320 --> 02:33:07,440
Speaker 9: and into the enacted law, and that after making that deal,

2903
02:33:07,840 --> 02:33:12,760
Speaker 9: the White House felt they could kind of move to

2904
02:33:12,879 --> 02:33:16,200
Speaker 9: the right publicly on trans people because you know, it

2905
02:33:16,240 --> 02:33:18,600
Speaker 9: would be in the news from the NBA passing, that

2906
02:33:18,680 --> 02:33:22,040
Speaker 9: they could start kind of preparing people for that by

2907
02:33:23,320 --> 02:33:25,200
Speaker 9: kind of making a public and kind of moving to

2908
02:33:25,240 --> 02:33:25,800
Speaker 9: the right word there.

2909
02:33:25,879 --> 02:33:25,959
Speaker 7: Right.

2910
02:33:26,000 --> 02:33:28,720
Speaker 1: So that's kind of what I suspect maybe happened. I

2911
02:33:28,840 --> 02:33:30,480
Speaker 1: don't know, but it is.

2912
02:33:30,760 --> 02:33:35,000
Speaker 9: It doesn't vode well for us, especially because you know,

2913
02:33:35,120 --> 02:33:39,200
Speaker 9: so the the White House's position has already been cited

2914
02:33:39,840 --> 02:33:43,680
Speaker 9: in at least one judicial opinion. Ye and then was

2915
02:33:43,760 --> 02:33:47,840
Speaker 9: also recently cited Yester the day before yesterday or not now, yeah, Friday,

2916
02:33:48,120 --> 02:33:52,640
Speaker 9: I think it was Friday in New Hampshire as justification

2917
02:33:53,080 --> 02:33:58,320
Speaker 9: from Governor Sunu for signing their surgery van there. And

2918
02:33:58,440 --> 02:34:02,360
Speaker 9: so these things have immediate consequences even before they show

2919
02:34:02,480 --> 02:34:07,560
Speaker 9: up in executive branch policy. And this is why I

2920
02:34:07,760 --> 02:34:12,000
Speaker 9: have been very convinced ever since kind of I read

2921
02:34:12,040 --> 02:34:15,440
Speaker 9: the policy Tea Leaves and the Executive orders and rags

2922
02:34:15,520 --> 02:34:17,920
Speaker 9: and kind of identified that we were dealing with the

2923
02:34:18,240 --> 02:34:20,400
Speaker 9: functionally a hostile executive branch.

2924
02:34:21,120 --> 02:34:23,199
Speaker 1: I've been trying. I tried as hard.

2925
02:34:23,040 --> 02:34:25,240
Speaker 9: As I could to get movement leadership to switch from

2926
02:34:25,560 --> 02:34:29,879
Speaker 9: a kiss ass framework to a take names framework, right Yeah,

2927
02:34:31,000 --> 02:34:34,280
Speaker 9: but they just they haven't done it. So the community

2928
02:34:34,400 --> 02:34:38,360
Speaker 9: just doesn't. It's going to feel like whiplash, I think

2929
02:34:38,440 --> 02:34:41,280
Speaker 9: for a lot of folks who aren't kind of deep

2930
02:34:41,320 --> 02:34:43,200
Speaker 9: into this stuff and then don't follow me on Twitter

2931
02:34:44,040 --> 02:34:47,440
Speaker 9: to see me yelling about five hundred page regulations. But

2932
02:34:47,560 --> 02:34:50,960
Speaker 9: it makes me worried that, you know, the leadership is

2933
02:34:51,080 --> 02:34:56,880
Speaker 9: not advocating for trans people appropriately. And I think that

2934
02:34:58,040 --> 02:35:00,880
Speaker 9: if this is demonstrating that they're not don't have leverage

2935
02:35:00,959 --> 02:35:02,760
Speaker 9: or they're not willing to bring a leverage to bear

2936
02:35:03,440 --> 02:35:07,440
Speaker 9: on whoever the nominee is when it's not Biden, right, Like,

2937
02:35:07,480 --> 02:35:12,080
Speaker 9: they're not setting the movement up to have strong footing

2938
02:35:12,280 --> 02:35:17,080
Speaker 9: to hold people accountable to trans equality kind of on

2939
02:35:17,200 --> 02:35:21,480
Speaker 9: the campaign trail, and that's really scary looking at labor,

2940
02:35:21,600 --> 02:35:23,200
Speaker 9: especially as kind of a blueprint.

2941
02:35:24,160 --> 02:35:26,560
Speaker 7: Yeah we're gonna be talking of God, Yeah, we're gonna

2942
02:35:26,560 --> 02:35:32,039
Speaker 7: be talking about shot o'brien'soking dog shit weird fascist turn

2943
02:35:32,640 --> 02:35:35,880
Speaker 7: later with some teamsters. Well hopefully, well we'll see well

2944
02:35:35,879 --> 02:35:38,720
Speaker 7: see well see apps the episode. But yeah, yeah, it's

2945
02:35:39,320 --> 02:35:42,200
Speaker 7: very bad. But also it's not We're not in a

2946
02:35:42,240 --> 02:35:45,520
Speaker 7: position yet where this is inevitable, right right, Like it

2947
02:35:45,560 --> 02:35:47,760
Speaker 7: doesn't have to happen. And the way that it gets

2948
02:35:47,800 --> 02:35:50,760
Speaker 7: this gets stopped from happening is by US organizing, in

2949
02:35:50,879 --> 02:35:53,360
Speaker 7: US fighting and US putting pressure on these people to

2950
02:35:53,400 --> 02:35:56,640
Speaker 7: fucking do this because you know, and like this, this

2951
02:35:56,720 --> 02:35:58,280
Speaker 7: is this, this has always been the thing. Like these

2952
02:35:58,480 --> 02:36:02,760
Speaker 7: people unfortunately they do need us, right, they hate it,

2953
02:36:03,440 --> 02:36:06,440
Speaker 7: but you know, these like the Democratic Party needs us.

2954
02:36:06,879 --> 02:36:07,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2955
02:36:07,080 --> 02:36:09,200
Speaker 9: We got to see last month during Pride month, they

2956
02:36:09,280 --> 02:36:12,160
Speaker 9: all show up at Pride parades. Yeah yeah right, it's

2957
02:36:12,200 --> 02:36:16,440
Speaker 9: like y'all actually don't belong here, Why.

2958
02:36:15,640 --> 02:36:16,560
Speaker 4: Are you fuck off?

2959
02:36:17,360 --> 02:36:17,560
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2960
02:36:17,600 --> 02:36:20,400
Speaker 7: And it's like you know, they like they they they

2961
02:36:20,680 --> 02:36:23,240
Speaker 7: they have been successfully sort of like feasting off of

2962
02:36:23,280 --> 02:36:26,560
Speaker 7: the movement that we build for decades now. And it

2963
02:36:26,760 --> 02:36:28,480
Speaker 7: is you know, if they're going to fucking if they're

2964
02:36:28,480 --> 02:36:30,240
Speaker 7: going to fucking eat our corpses, it is, it is,

2965
02:36:30,400 --> 02:36:34,360
Speaker 7: it is, it is absolutely time for them to fucking

2966
02:36:34,480 --> 02:36:36,520
Speaker 7: try to defend us. And the only way that's going

2967
02:36:36,560 --> 02:36:39,600
Speaker 7: to happen is if we we actually start mobilizing it,

2968
02:36:39,640 --> 02:36:43,400
Speaker 7: we start putting pressure on these people to like not

2969
02:36:43,720 --> 02:36:46,760
Speaker 7: fucking back down and write us off for dead.

2970
02:36:47,520 --> 02:36:50,560
Speaker 9: But the way that the national organizations have been moving, right,

2971
02:36:50,680 --> 02:36:53,760
Speaker 9: like the positive press and the praise that they've given

2972
02:36:53,920 --> 02:36:58,800
Speaker 9: deepen Biden's shittiest actions and inactions on trans people actively

2973
02:36:59,000 --> 02:37:03,720
Speaker 9: stimy's commune you organizing, right, because if I have to

2974
02:37:03,840 --> 02:37:07,320
Speaker 9: explain a five hundred page regulation to show people that

2975
02:37:07,520 --> 02:37:11,240
Speaker 9: Biden's transphobic, that and they're just like no, but look,

2976
02:37:11,360 --> 02:37:15,720
Speaker 9: this HRC statement says it's actually great policy, it's a

2977
02:37:15,800 --> 02:37:18,880
Speaker 9: big barrier to overcome or community organizing there, right.

2978
02:37:19,160 --> 02:37:23,280
Speaker 7: So yeah, and you know, the the the other sort

2979
02:37:23,320 --> 02:37:27,560
Speaker 7: of issue here, right, is that the Republican Party is

2980
02:37:28,720 --> 02:37:30,680
Speaker 7: I mean, I don't know if hurling towards is even

2981
02:37:30,720 --> 02:37:33,920
Speaker 7: the right word, but they are They are very very

2982
02:37:34,120 --> 02:37:38,280
Speaker 7: very close to what is effectively like banning Transmit from

2983
02:37:38,280 --> 02:37:40,720
Speaker 7: public life and their eventual goal of wiping us out.

2984
02:37:41,200 --> 02:37:41,360
Speaker 9: Right.

2985
02:37:41,480 --> 02:37:45,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, and you know, if there's no actual force to

2986
02:37:45,760 --> 02:37:48,480
Speaker 7: oppose that, because all of these sort of national organizations

2987
02:37:48,520 --> 02:37:50,959
Speaker 7: are busy sort of kissing ass instead of actually fighting.

2988
02:37:51,840 --> 02:37:52,840
Speaker 7: We are in deep trouble.

2989
02:37:53,400 --> 02:37:55,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I think and I think we are. I

2990
02:37:55,840 --> 02:37:59,039
Speaker 9: think we are in deep trouble. But like you said,

2991
02:37:59,200 --> 02:38:02,320
Speaker 9: it is not a done yet right. I was actually heartened.

2992
02:38:02,480 --> 02:38:04,519
Speaker 1: I was very I was terrified.

2993
02:38:05,120 --> 02:38:10,240
Speaker 9: So Zoe Zoe's Ephyr, the trans representative state representative from Montana.

2994
02:38:11,400 --> 02:38:14,760
Speaker 9: After the draft bad Title nine regulation came out, she

2995
02:38:14,920 --> 02:38:17,960
Speaker 9: organized an open letter from fourteen out of sixteen out

2996
02:38:18,040 --> 02:38:21,000
Speaker 9: trans and non binary state electeds against it. They released

2997
02:38:21,000 --> 02:38:22,879
Speaker 9: it a couple of days after all of the orgs

2998
02:38:22,879 --> 02:38:25,640
Speaker 9: put out their praise were they're praising statements and they

2999
02:38:25,680 --> 02:38:28,800
Speaker 9: looked really dumb. So she actually organized another open letter

3000
02:38:29,080 --> 02:38:32,480
Speaker 9: of out trans and non binary state legislators against this.

3001
02:38:32,640 --> 02:38:34,840
Speaker 9: It wasn't the you know, the full compliment because it

3002
02:38:34,959 --> 02:38:37,760
Speaker 9: was over a weekend, really scrambly, but just like the

3003
02:38:38,160 --> 02:38:40,920
Speaker 9: Title nine one, Dana Carome and Sarah McBride did not

3004
02:38:41,400 --> 02:38:41,760
Speaker 9: sign it.

3005
02:38:42,360 --> 02:38:43,760
Speaker 7: Why can you explain who that is by the way

3006
02:38:43,760 --> 02:38:44,400
Speaker 7: for the audience.

3007
02:38:44,440 --> 02:38:50,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, So Dana Carome is a trans state representative from Virginia,

3008
02:38:50,360 --> 02:38:55,320
Speaker 9: and then Sarah McBride is an out trans legislator from

3009
02:38:55,879 --> 02:39:00,760
Speaker 9: Biden's home state of Delaware. And the mc brides are

3010
02:39:01,040 --> 02:39:05,920
Speaker 9: actually family friends with the Bidens, and Joe Biden actually

3011
02:39:06,000 --> 02:39:10,600
Speaker 9: wrote the forward to Sarah McBride's memoirs, autobiography whatever you

3012
02:39:10,640 --> 02:39:13,880
Speaker 9: call it, right, But she's also a Zionist, and she

3013
02:39:14,360 --> 02:39:19,600
Speaker 9: is a kind of centrist, center right Democrat who you know,

3014
02:39:20,640 --> 02:39:24,840
Speaker 9: as I've talked to people, my understanding is that she

3015
02:39:24,879 --> 02:39:27,960
Speaker 9: didn't sign on to the title nine letter because she

3016
02:39:28,280 --> 02:39:31,680
Speaker 9: has you know, rising Star and the Democratic Party aspirations.

3017
02:39:31,720 --> 02:39:34,760
Speaker 9: She's probably going to be the first trans congress person soon.

3018
02:39:34,879 --> 02:39:38,480
Speaker 9: I hate it, and so I was extremely concerned that

3019
02:39:38,959 --> 02:39:42,320
Speaker 9: Sarah McBride, who you know, because of those ties and

3020
02:39:42,400 --> 02:39:44,160
Speaker 9: because she's probably going to be in Congress soon, is

3021
02:39:44,240 --> 02:39:47,920
Speaker 9: the most kind of politically powerful trans person in the country.

3022
02:39:48,400 --> 02:39:52,039
Speaker 9: I was extremely worried that she was going to join

3023
02:39:52,440 --> 02:39:56,880
Speaker 9: the Biden administration on this. So I agro posted the

3024
02:39:56,959 --> 02:40:00,480
Speaker 9: ship posts that are for several days, and thankfully she

3025
02:40:00,480 --> 02:40:04,640
Speaker 9: she did condemn it and kind.

3026
02:40:06,840 --> 02:40:08,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, go.

3027
02:40:09,240 --> 02:40:14,400
Speaker 9: I was seriously concerned about that because you know, just

3028
02:40:14,560 --> 02:40:19,120
Speaker 9: these the forces, this anti transit humanization campaign is so

3029
02:40:19,400 --> 02:40:24,000
Speaker 9: powerful and so strong at this point that a lot

3030
02:40:24,080 --> 02:40:26,280
Speaker 9: of people are making the calculation that if they want

3031
02:40:26,360 --> 02:40:27,640
Speaker 9: to advance in politics.

3032
02:40:28,520 --> 02:40:32,720
Speaker 1: They got a multuous you know, and I.

3033
02:40:32,720 --> 02:40:34,600
Speaker 9: Don't think highly id and don't think highly enough and

3034
02:40:34,680 --> 02:40:38,320
Speaker 9: Sarah to have been confident that she wouldn't do that, yeah, And.

3035
02:40:38,360 --> 02:40:41,040
Speaker 7: I think that's you know, that's also one of the

3036
02:40:41,160 --> 02:40:45,760
Speaker 7: really hard parts about this is like you, I don't know,

3037
02:40:45,920 --> 02:40:49,800
Speaker 7: as much as there is sort of intercommunity solidarity among

3038
02:40:49,879 --> 02:40:53,959
Speaker 7: trans people, you can't even trust your own people when

3039
02:40:53,959 --> 02:40:56,800
Speaker 7: they take power right, right, And you know, this isn't

3040
02:40:56,840 --> 02:40:58,440
Speaker 7: to say like this is one of the rare times

3041
02:40:58,480 --> 02:41:00,640
Speaker 7: where like I think there are like there's legislators who

3042
02:41:00,920 --> 02:41:03,280
Speaker 7: do good stuff, like Zoey's effort has been doing great,

3043
02:41:03,720 --> 02:41:07,040
Speaker 7: But you have to keep the pressure on everyone, no

3044
02:41:07,160 --> 02:41:08,760
Speaker 7: matter who they are about it, where they come from,

3045
02:41:08,840 --> 02:41:11,560
Speaker 7: you have to you have to keep pressuring them, because I.

3046
02:41:11,560 --> 02:41:13,200
Speaker 1: Mean, that's my experience as now does.

3047
02:41:14,040 --> 02:41:16,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, if you don't, we're going to get We're going

3048
02:41:16,440 --> 02:41:19,640
Speaker 7: to get left behind and left to die. Yeah.

3049
02:41:21,360 --> 02:41:24,040
Speaker 9: And so like one of the one of the ways

3050
02:41:24,160 --> 02:41:27,080
Speaker 9: that this has been so dismaying for me, right is

3051
02:41:27,800 --> 02:41:31,959
Speaker 9: that trans people don't have any or any national organization

3052
02:41:33,240 --> 02:41:40,320
Speaker 9: that advocates for them full throatdly, principally in a trans

3053
02:41:40,400 --> 02:41:44,240
Speaker 9: maximalist kind of unapologetic way, right, it's always all of

3054
02:41:44,280 --> 02:41:47,600
Speaker 9: the orgs, all the lgbtq worgs and the Transpacific orgs,

3055
02:41:47,600 --> 02:41:50,480
Speaker 9: which is kind of what I'm getting to all kind

3056
02:41:50,560 --> 02:41:51,760
Speaker 9: of take this very.

3057
02:41:53,640 --> 02:41:56,840
Speaker 1: Centrist tech or they have over the last several years

3058
02:41:56,920 --> 02:41:57,320
Speaker 1: with Biden.

3059
02:41:57,360 --> 02:41:59,040
Speaker 9: They were all kind of a lot happier to be

3060
02:41:59,080 --> 02:42:01,640
Speaker 9: radical when Trump is pres but no longer. Right, Yeah,

3061
02:42:02,160 --> 02:42:06,680
Speaker 9: And my my main issue is even if you are,

3062
02:42:07,280 --> 02:42:10,119
Speaker 9: you know, a rich DC strategist who leads, who runs

3063
02:42:10,160 --> 02:42:14,880
Speaker 9: these movement orgs like you know they are, and you believe,

3064
02:42:15,200 --> 02:42:20,120
Speaker 9: even you believe that the balance between kind of strident,

3065
02:42:20,240 --> 02:42:26,880
Speaker 9: principled advocacy and lobbying blazer tightened up moderated advocacy is

3066
02:42:27,879 --> 02:42:29,720
Speaker 9: way further in the moderated direction than I do.

3067
02:42:29,840 --> 02:42:33,039
Speaker 1: Even if you believe that, you still.

3068
02:42:32,920 --> 02:42:38,080
Speaker 9: Understand the need for some group with a voice to

3069
02:42:38,320 --> 02:42:42,760
Speaker 9: articulate the trans maximalist position, to articulate the standards by

3070
02:42:42,840 --> 02:42:45,440
Speaker 9: which you know, politicians are going to be measured if

3071
02:42:45,440 --> 02:42:47,320
Speaker 9: they're going to be considered pro trans.

3072
02:42:48,080 --> 02:42:52,199
Speaker 1: And what we have not seen is the trans.

3073
02:42:51,959 --> 02:42:56,800
Speaker 9: Specific organization, so specifically National Center for transgener Quality n

3074
02:42:56,800 --> 02:43:01,760
Speaker 9: CT and Transferred Legal Education Defense Fund, till death. They

3075
02:43:01,840 --> 02:43:06,680
Speaker 9: recently merged into Advocates for Trans Equality, which is abbreviated

3076
02:43:06,760 --> 02:43:12,720
Speaker 9: A for a te don't ask, don't ask, But like,

3077
02:43:12,840 --> 02:43:18,720
Speaker 9: why let the LGBT, let HRC do the centrist bullshit,

3078
02:43:18,959 --> 02:43:22,279
Speaker 9: Let them put out milk toast statements, let them praise

3079
02:43:22,800 --> 02:43:27,040
Speaker 9: politicians who don't fully support us. Right, but we need

3080
02:43:27,120 --> 02:43:31,200
Speaker 9: at least one organization representing trans people to lay out

3081
02:43:31,600 --> 02:43:36,480
Speaker 9: the full case to present kind of our actual policy

3082
02:43:36,600 --> 02:43:40,480
Speaker 9: needs and be the rubric by which everyone else can

3083
02:43:40,520 --> 02:43:43,640
Speaker 9: be measured. And also just for community education, so we know,

3084
02:43:44,760 --> 02:43:48,320
Speaker 9: so the community knows without you know, people like organizers,

3085
02:43:48,360 --> 02:43:51,400
Speaker 9: people like me trying to overcome these huge, these huge

3086
02:43:51,879 --> 02:43:54,600
Speaker 9: walls to get people to understand what's going on, can

3087
02:43:54,920 --> 02:43:57,680
Speaker 9: see what's being done to us, know what we deserve

3088
02:43:57,879 --> 02:44:00,680
Speaker 9: in terms of policy, and then measure what is actually

3089
02:44:00,720 --> 02:44:02,320
Speaker 9: being done for us against that bar.

3090
02:44:03,959 --> 02:44:06,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think one of the other frustrating aspects

3091
02:44:06,640 --> 02:44:08,400
Speaker 7: of this is something that you talk about a lot,

3092
02:44:08,680 --> 02:44:13,000
Speaker 7: is that the people who do the work in these organizations, right,

3093
02:44:13,120 --> 02:44:15,160
Speaker 7: you're sort of like, you know, your sort of staffers

3094
02:44:15,240 --> 02:44:17,280
Speaker 7: or researchers to people on the on the sort of

3095
02:44:17,320 --> 02:44:19,360
Speaker 7: bottom of the pyramid. You make all this stuff function.

3096
02:44:19,680 --> 02:44:22,200
Speaker 7: They don't get a say in how these you know,

3097
02:44:22,320 --> 02:44:24,720
Speaker 7: and how how these fucking orgers put these things out.

3098
02:44:25,160 --> 02:44:28,360
Speaker 9: No, most of them are radical anarchists and communists like

3099
02:44:28,440 --> 02:44:32,280
Speaker 9: I am right. They they really really want to do

3100
02:44:32,680 --> 02:44:36,000
Speaker 9: what we need to be done, and it's just you know,

3101
02:44:36,080 --> 02:44:39,480
Speaker 9: comes down from on high that that's not what they're doing.

3102
02:44:40,400 --> 02:44:44,279
Speaker 9: And I know that I am not the only trans

3103
02:44:45,040 --> 02:44:49,400
Speaker 9: National ORG staffer who has been silenced by the White

3104
02:44:49,440 --> 02:44:51,840
Speaker 9: House or the White House reached out directly to my bosses.

3105
02:44:51,840 --> 02:44:53,280
Speaker 9: I think I mentioned it the last time I was

3106
02:44:53,320 --> 02:44:56,720
Speaker 9: on Yeah, but I know that's happened to my colleagues,

3107
02:44:56,879 --> 02:45:01,400
Speaker 9: friends at other organizations. And I know that I have

3108
02:45:01,440 --> 02:45:03,560
Speaker 9: a lot of privileges that that a lot of people don't,

3109
02:45:04,400 --> 02:45:06,160
Speaker 9: so I can kind of get fired or I could.

3110
02:45:06,280 --> 02:45:09,400
Speaker 9: I do not maybe couldn't afford it anymore. I get

3111
02:45:09,440 --> 02:45:12,600
Speaker 9: fired for my principles, and I don't, you know, I don't,

3112
02:45:12,600 --> 02:45:15,279
Speaker 9: I don't judge, you know, my my comrades and colleagues

3113
02:45:15,560 --> 02:45:19,600
Speaker 9: horstal kind of doing the best they can. But I'm

3114
02:45:20,000 --> 02:45:24,680
Speaker 9: really really scared with with leadership and the way that

3115
02:45:24,760 --> 02:45:29,560
Speaker 9: they have not recognized kind of the situation they've gotten a.

3116
02:45:29,600 --> 02:45:32,640
Speaker 7: Sent to Yeah, and I think the thing I want

3117
02:45:32,680 --> 02:45:36,520
Speaker 7: to close on is what do you think are effective

3118
02:45:36,560 --> 02:45:39,920
Speaker 7: things that people can do sort of now right? And

3119
02:45:40,000 --> 02:45:42,000
Speaker 7: people who aren't in the top of these power structures.

3120
02:45:42,000 --> 02:45:43,960
Speaker 7: Although if you're for some reason you're the head of

3121
02:45:44,000 --> 02:45:45,480
Speaker 7: one of these orgs and you're listening to this, what

3122
02:45:45,560 --> 02:45:48,000
Speaker 7: the fuck are you doing? Please do better?

3123
02:45:48,440 --> 02:45:49,400
Speaker 2: But yeah, what what?

3124
02:45:49,600 --> 02:45:49,640
Speaker 7: What?

3125
02:45:49,800 --> 02:45:49,840
Speaker 6: What?

3126
02:45:50,000 --> 02:45:51,840
Speaker 7: What kinds of things can people do on top of

3127
02:45:51,920 --> 02:45:53,760
Speaker 7: sort of just like community education?

3128
02:45:54,080 --> 02:45:57,680
Speaker 9: And yeah, yeah, so, I mean I I think the

3129
02:45:57,800 --> 02:46:00,640
Speaker 9: real thing that I mean, I've courage people to do

3130
02:46:00,720 --> 02:46:04,040
Speaker 9: this on Twitter as well, is if you see one

3131
02:46:04,120 --> 02:46:09,240
Speaker 9: of these national organizations fall short of one hundred percent

3132
02:46:10,160 --> 02:46:12,840
Speaker 9: and advocating for a transop, if you see them equivocate

3133
02:46:13,080 --> 02:46:16,400
Speaker 9: about you know, maybe banning surgery isn't that bad because

3134
02:46:16,400 --> 02:46:20,040
Speaker 9: it's not super common, or maybe it's okay not to

3135
02:46:20,760 --> 02:46:24,400
Speaker 9: demand that Biden, you know, explicitly say that he supports

3136
02:46:25,040 --> 02:46:28,040
Speaker 9: you know, these parts of these components of our healthcare

3137
02:46:28,080 --> 02:46:30,400
Speaker 9: before calling him on hundred percent protrans on healthcare.

3138
02:46:30,879 --> 02:46:31,760
Speaker 1: You know, that kind of stuff.

3139
02:46:32,200 --> 02:46:34,440
Speaker 9: If you see them fall short of that, you know,

3140
02:46:35,480 --> 02:46:38,200
Speaker 9: don't trust them anymore. I don't donate to them anymore.

3141
02:46:38,320 --> 02:46:42,440
Speaker 9: Take that money, attention, time, and energy and turn it

3142
02:46:42,560 --> 02:46:48,680
Speaker 9: to mutual aid efforts, to local organizing efforts to supporting

3143
02:46:48,800 --> 02:46:51,880
Speaker 9: trans people in Red states. Campaign for southerner Quality just

3144
02:46:51,959 --> 02:46:57,360
Speaker 9: expanded their their practical support program to be not just

3145
02:46:57,520 --> 02:47:02,040
Speaker 9: a subset of of Red states that they will help

3146
02:47:02,280 --> 02:47:05,520
Speaker 9: trans youth in families in, but all Red states that

3147
02:47:05,600 --> 02:47:09,359
Speaker 9: are that are facing healthcare bands and similar anti trans measures.

3148
02:47:10,440 --> 02:47:14,760
Speaker 9: Support that fund right, go look at and if you

3149
02:47:14,840 --> 02:47:17,200
Speaker 9: don't know of a of a local trans group or

3150
02:47:17,200 --> 02:47:20,480
Speaker 9: a state transgroup near you doing good work, you can

3151
02:47:20,520 --> 02:47:25,040
Speaker 9: go to transjustice funding projects kind of grantee map. They're

3152
02:47:25,320 --> 02:47:29,400
Speaker 9: really low barrier only grant to translated groups and you

3153
02:47:29,440 --> 02:47:31,480
Speaker 9: can see what those groups are doing and you can

3154
02:47:31,520 --> 02:47:33,920
Speaker 9: hook up with them or donate to them. But I

3155
02:47:33,959 --> 02:47:35,760
Speaker 9: think that the biggest thing is not I mean, we

3156
02:47:36,760 --> 02:47:39,320
Speaker 9: Lord knows, we need money, we're all poor as shit, yeah,

3157
02:47:39,720 --> 02:47:42,480
Speaker 9: But mainly, but mostly honestly, what I think we need

3158
02:47:42,680 --> 02:47:47,039
Speaker 9: is we need vocal, visible support. We need assist people

3159
02:47:47,440 --> 02:47:52,920
Speaker 9: not to remain silent or passive when they hear or

3160
02:47:53,000 --> 02:47:58,400
Speaker 9: see transphobia, or when they hear or see someone equivocating

3161
02:47:58,560 --> 02:48:00,920
Speaker 9: on well maybe you know, maybe kids aren't old enough

3162
02:48:01,000 --> 02:48:04,680
Speaker 9: to know their trands. Like if you're that just sounds

3163
02:48:04,720 --> 02:48:07,440
Speaker 9: insane actual trans people, right, but you know it can

3164
02:48:07,480 --> 02:48:09,840
Speaker 9: take this people, right, And so if you are a

3165
02:48:09,920 --> 02:48:13,760
Speaker 9: SIS ally, being an ally is an action, right, And

3166
02:48:13,920 --> 02:48:16,480
Speaker 9: we need that now more than ever as the stakes

3167
02:48:16,959 --> 02:48:21,480
Speaker 9: of the risks of being attached to us supporting us

3168
02:48:22,240 --> 02:48:27,119
Speaker 9: grow higher, right, Like, we need principal allies to stand

3169
02:48:27,200 --> 02:48:29,520
Speaker 9: with us. And so if you can do that in

3170
02:48:29,640 --> 02:48:32,360
Speaker 9: your daily life, you can be a trans advocate in

3171
02:48:32,480 --> 02:48:33,600
Speaker 9: your kind of routine.

3172
02:48:34,400 --> 02:48:35,360
Speaker 1: We desperately need that.

3173
02:48:36,320 --> 02:48:39,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think that's a good I know that

3174
02:48:40,120 --> 02:48:42,440
Speaker 7: that's a good sort of rallying cry. It's like all

3175
02:48:42,520 --> 02:48:45,640
Speaker 7: all you know, and this has always substantively been one

3176
02:48:45,640 --> 02:48:47,880
Speaker 7: of the big issues with being trans is that we

3177
02:48:47,959 --> 02:48:50,760
Speaker 7: are one percent of the population right now. Right, that's

3178
02:48:50,800 --> 02:48:54,160
Speaker 7: probably gonna rise in the future, but right now are

3179
02:48:54,400 --> 02:48:57,920
Speaker 7: sort of distributed pauls, like our distributed impacts on politics.

3180
02:48:58,360 --> 02:49:00,440
Speaker 7: You know, we have an outsized impact of paul But

3181
02:49:01,160 --> 02:49:04,680
Speaker 7: for one percent of the population, we can't fight nine

3182
02:49:04,720 --> 02:49:08,360
Speaker 7: percent of the population, right, So we need we need

3183
02:49:08,440 --> 02:49:10,600
Speaker 7: your help, and we need you know, we need not

3184
02:49:10,959 --> 02:49:13,240
Speaker 7: just sort of milk toast lip service.

3185
02:49:13,360 --> 02:49:16,680
Speaker 9: We need to actually fight, Yeah, we need people in

3186
02:49:16,760 --> 02:49:19,920
Speaker 9: your life to know you know that you are fully

3187
02:49:20,280 --> 02:49:23,039
Speaker 9: pro trands and that means that you kind of learned

3188
02:49:23,040 --> 02:49:26,240
Speaker 9: maybe how to talk about trans healthcare to educate other

3189
02:49:26,280 --> 02:49:30,080
Speaker 9: folks who won't know as much, or you are able

3190
02:49:30,200 --> 02:49:34,160
Speaker 9: to develop and kind of share a personal story about

3191
02:49:34,200 --> 02:49:37,840
Speaker 9: how you learned about trans people and uh and became

3192
02:49:38,280 --> 02:49:40,560
Speaker 9: you know, an outlying right, So learning how to do

3193
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Speaker 9: that work I think is super important.

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Speaker 7: So this is this is spinning can happen here, Kriinn,

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02:49:45,959 --> 02:49:47,440
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for coming on the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 9: Like I said that timing of the last show, Yeah,

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02:49:52,480 --> 02:49:52,960
Speaker 9: very smart.

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Speaker 7: It's yeah, we I have I have a weird knack

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Speaker 7: for tibing this stuff correctly for mostly for but you know, yeah,

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Speaker 7: just been nicking up here. You can find us in

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Speaker 7: the places and yeah, go go support the trans people

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Speaker 7: in your life because the Lord knows they need it.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, and you can follow me. Yeah, so I'm crankering,

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02:50:16,240 --> 02:50:19,440
Speaker 9: I share they pronouns, and I'm at gay Narcan on Twitter.

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02:50:19,840 --> 02:50:23,360
Speaker 9: You can find me there for hot trans policy takes

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02:50:23,360 --> 02:50:26,240
Speaker 9: that are not moderated by centrist calm staff.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and don't find me on Twitter. Absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

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Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

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Speaker 4: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 5: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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02:50:48,440 --> 02:50:50,600
Speaker 5: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

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02:50:50,680 --> 02:50:54,080
Speaker 5: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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02:50:54,520 --> 02:50:56,600
Speaker 5: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

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Speaker 5: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.