1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:21,916 --> 00:00:25,956 Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, Revisionist History listeners, malcome here today we have 3 00:00:26,036 --> 00:00:29,596 Speaker 2: a special guest in the house, Rachel Botsman. Rachel is 4 00:00:29,596 --> 00:00:33,276 Speaker 2: a lecturer at Oxford University and a world renowned expert 5 00:00:33,516 --> 00:00:37,076 Speaker 2: on the topic of trust, and importantly, not most importantly, 6 00:00:37,116 --> 00:00:40,596 Speaker 2: but importantly, she's the author of a new Pushkin audiobook, 7 00:00:40,876 --> 00:00:44,316 Speaker 2: How to Trust and Be Trusted. After more than fifteen 8 00:00:44,396 --> 00:00:48,716 Speaker 2: years teaching trust to CEOs, entrepreneurs, world leaders, and all 9 00:00:48,796 --> 00:00:52,156 Speaker 2: kinds of students, she's now sharing these powerful lessons with 10 00:00:52,316 --> 00:00:56,036 Speaker 2: you in her new audiobook. You're going to get a 11 00:00:56,116 --> 00:00:58,476 Speaker 2: chance to hear one of her lessons from that audiobook 12 00:00:58,476 --> 00:01:01,076 Speaker 2: in just a moment. But first I want to speak 13 00:01:01,116 --> 00:01:04,436 Speaker 2: with a woman herself, Rachel Botsman, Welcome. 14 00:01:04,076 --> 00:01:06,396 Speaker 1: To Revisionist History. Tell me a little bit. 15 00:01:06,316 --> 00:01:08,516 Speaker 2: About your interest in trust. 16 00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:10,636 Speaker 1: How did you come to this subject. 17 00:01:11,396 --> 00:01:15,516 Speaker 3: It's a funny subject to study because it's really intangible trust. 18 00:01:16,716 --> 00:01:21,636 Speaker 3: But it came from a fascination in human connection. So 19 00:01:21,676 --> 00:01:25,076 Speaker 3: I've always been interested in why we're attracted to some 20 00:01:25,116 --> 00:01:29,796 Speaker 3: people and we repel from others. I've always been interested 21 00:01:29,796 --> 00:01:34,956 Speaker 3: in what holds groups and teams and society together, and 22 00:01:35,756 --> 00:01:39,956 Speaker 3: the force, the social glue is trust, And what I 23 00:01:40,036 --> 00:01:43,876 Speaker 3: realized is that in the field of trust you sort 24 00:01:43,876 --> 00:01:47,076 Speaker 3: of have people who study like cells and negotiations. So essentially, 25 00:01:47,076 --> 00:01:50,276 Speaker 3: how do you manipulate trust to get something from someone, 26 00:01:50,996 --> 00:01:53,316 Speaker 3: or you have the other end, which is like the 27 00:01:53,476 --> 00:01:56,996 Speaker 3: ester perel end, which is like the therapist. Let's repair 28 00:01:57,036 --> 00:02:00,076 Speaker 3: trust when it breaks down. Now, wasn't a lot in between, 29 00:02:00,236 --> 00:02:01,676 Speaker 3: which I found fascinating. 30 00:02:02,516 --> 00:02:06,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we you were drawn to this because is 31 00:02:06,876 --> 00:02:11,636 Speaker 2: this something we do naturally well or something that we're 32 00:02:11,636 --> 00:02:12,036 Speaker 2: bad at. 33 00:02:13,276 --> 00:02:16,276 Speaker 3: It's a good question. We do it. Most of us 34 00:02:17,036 --> 00:02:22,156 Speaker 3: trust naturally. It's a very intuitive thing. Most of us 35 00:02:22,156 --> 00:02:26,916 Speaker 3: do it badly because we rely on intuition and not information, 36 00:02:27,796 --> 00:02:31,916 Speaker 3: and especially in high stakes situations or high risk situations, 37 00:02:32,716 --> 00:02:35,596 Speaker 3: we're not really taught how to trust well, how to 38 00:02:35,636 --> 00:02:39,716 Speaker 3: give our trust to the right people and products and information, 39 00:02:39,876 --> 00:02:43,356 Speaker 3: which is a big one. And everything about our society 40 00:02:43,356 --> 00:02:45,716 Speaker 3: and technology now is speeding up those decisions, so our 41 00:02:45,716 --> 00:02:47,756 Speaker 3: trust making is getting worse, not better. 42 00:02:48,436 --> 00:02:52,556 Speaker 2: What would be some of the most common mistakes we 43 00:02:52,636 --> 00:02:56,596 Speaker 2: make when we're trying to kind of make a trust evaluation. 44 00:02:57,916 --> 00:03:00,556 Speaker 3: Well, speed is the enemy of trust, so making it 45 00:03:00,596 --> 00:03:03,476 Speaker 3: too quickly or under pressure is a really big one. 46 00:03:03,796 --> 00:03:07,036 Speaker 3: So most big decisions we have to make because we've 47 00:03:07,076 --> 00:03:09,756 Speaker 3: got to hire someone or whatever that might be. So 48 00:03:09,796 --> 00:03:14,716 Speaker 3: that's number one. The second is intuition over information. So 49 00:03:14,996 --> 00:03:18,276 Speaker 3: I still believe in trusting your gap, but what is 50 00:03:18,316 --> 00:03:24,716 Speaker 3: the information. There's a lot of evidence around charisma and 51 00:03:24,796 --> 00:03:29,076 Speaker 3: confidence of awaiting capability, and I think we're seeing that 52 00:03:29,116 --> 00:03:31,596 Speaker 3: play out in sort of leaders that are getting elected. 53 00:03:31,756 --> 00:03:35,836 Speaker 3: So those that seem like bold and disruptive versus steady 54 00:03:36,076 --> 00:03:40,076 Speaker 3: and capable and maybe even bland that really influences trust, 55 00:03:40,476 --> 00:03:41,916 Speaker 3: they'd be my top three. 56 00:03:42,236 --> 00:03:45,116 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm reminded of years ago I read this study 57 00:03:45,156 --> 00:03:52,036 Speaker 2: of student evaluations of professors and how the evaluation a 58 00:03:52,076 --> 00:03:55,556 Speaker 2: student makes after like, you know, five seconds is the 59 00:03:55,556 --> 00:03:57,316 Speaker 2: same as their evaluation they make at the end of 60 00:03:57,356 --> 00:04:03,556 Speaker 2: the term. And they're clearly not making a reasoned decision 61 00:04:03,596 --> 00:04:08,036 Speaker 2: about whether they you know, whether this isn't it, whether 62 00:04:08,036 --> 00:04:10,436 Speaker 2: this teacher is good, or what they should trust this information, 63 00:04:10,556 --> 00:04:13,916 Speaker 2: or they never get beyond the initial question of do 64 00:04:13,956 --> 00:04:18,156 Speaker 2: I like this person? The snap judgment, yeah, the snap judgment. 65 00:04:18,196 --> 00:04:20,036 Speaker 2: Never they never transcend the snap judgment. 66 00:04:21,236 --> 00:04:23,876 Speaker 3: And sometimes it's not even like it's does this person 67 00:04:23,916 --> 00:04:26,916 Speaker 3: feel familiar? Like they can't even get beyond that. And 68 00:04:26,996 --> 00:04:31,196 Speaker 3: it's the person that feels strange or unfamiliar that sometimes 69 00:04:31,236 --> 00:04:34,436 Speaker 3: we just can't or choose not to trust, and that's 70 00:04:34,676 --> 00:04:35,756 Speaker 3: that's a real problem. 71 00:04:35,996 --> 00:04:38,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, you spend a lot of time on the question 72 00:04:38,956 --> 00:04:42,476 Speaker 2: of transparency. You talk a little bit about what do 73 00:04:42,556 --> 00:04:46,716 Speaker 2: we gain from adding transparency into these and what do 74 00:04:46,756 --> 00:04:50,116 Speaker 2: you mean by transparency in this context. 75 00:04:49,796 --> 00:04:53,756 Speaker 3: Or what do we lose as well lose? Yes, I 76 00:04:53,796 --> 00:04:56,236 Speaker 3: think it's one of the biggest myths around trust that 77 00:04:56,276 --> 00:05:01,116 Speaker 3: needs blowing up. So well. Transparency. I always think of 78 00:05:01,516 --> 00:05:04,876 Speaker 3: disclosing information, right, so disclosing lots of lot of information 79 00:05:04,996 --> 00:05:09,556 Speaker 3: so you understand why something is happening, or or good 80 00:05:09,596 --> 00:05:14,276 Speaker 3: transparencies understanding the context behind a decision, so why did 81 00:05:14,316 --> 00:05:19,316 Speaker 3: you choose to do that thing? But transparency in practice 82 00:05:20,156 --> 00:05:24,716 Speaker 3: and feel like surveillance. So if you think about transparency, 83 00:05:24,756 --> 00:05:28,076 Speaker 3: you're trying to get visibility into something. You're trying to 84 00:05:28,196 --> 00:05:32,276 Speaker 3: understand where someone is by tracking them maybe on their phones. 85 00:05:33,556 --> 00:05:35,996 Speaker 3: You're trying to understand what they're up to and what 86 00:05:36,036 --> 00:05:39,596 Speaker 3: they're doing. And that is the very opposite of trust. 87 00:05:40,316 --> 00:05:44,196 Speaker 3: So the way I define trust is a confident relationship 88 00:05:44,196 --> 00:05:47,756 Speaker 3: with the unknown So if you think, Malcolm, of people 89 00:05:47,756 --> 00:05:50,076 Speaker 3: in your life, your professional or your personal life that 90 00:05:50,116 --> 00:05:53,356 Speaker 3: you deeply trust, you don't need to know where they are, 91 00:05:53,796 --> 00:05:55,956 Speaker 3: you don't need to know what they're up to. It's 92 00:05:56,036 --> 00:06:00,956 Speaker 3: that visibility is a form of control, and that control 93 00:06:01,156 --> 00:06:03,636 Speaker 3: can be a sign of lack of trust. So I 94 00:06:03,636 --> 00:06:07,036 Speaker 3: think it's I'm not saying transparency is completely a bad thing, 95 00:06:07,596 --> 00:06:12,516 Speaker 3: but this idea that you fixed trust issues, systemic trust issues, 96 00:06:12,516 --> 00:06:16,516 Speaker 3: trust issues in an organization, even in a relationship, by 97 00:06:16,516 --> 00:06:20,596 Speaker 3: making things transparent. It has a backfire effect where it 98 00:06:20,676 --> 00:06:24,716 Speaker 3: might work initially because you think, oh, that person's being 99 00:06:24,756 --> 00:06:27,796 Speaker 3: more open or I have more visibility into that situation 100 00:06:27,876 --> 00:06:31,876 Speaker 3: and therefore more control, but over time it actually leads 101 00:06:31,916 --> 00:06:32,796 Speaker 3: to less trust. 102 00:06:33,956 --> 00:06:36,636 Speaker 2: But does that you know when you said earlier that 103 00:06:38,356 --> 00:06:39,916 Speaker 2: one of the things we need to do is to 104 00:06:40,476 --> 00:06:43,516 Speaker 2: not make decisions quickly and gather more information, what's the 105 00:06:43,596 --> 00:06:47,836 Speaker 2: difference between gathering more information and transparency. 106 00:06:48,436 --> 00:06:51,636 Speaker 3: It's a great question. So it sounds like semantics, but 107 00:06:51,676 --> 00:06:55,436 Speaker 3: there's a difference between openness and transparency. So if I 108 00:06:55,636 --> 00:07:00,276 Speaker 3: came to you and said, I'd really love to know 109 00:07:00,356 --> 00:07:03,236 Speaker 3: why you chose to put me on your podcast, Malcolm 110 00:07:03,876 --> 00:07:09,476 Speaker 3: and you said, sure, I'll share that information. That's being open. 111 00:07:09,876 --> 00:07:13,196 Speaker 3: But if equal if you said you know what, you 112 00:07:13,236 --> 00:07:16,116 Speaker 3: don't really need to know or I can't really explain why. 113 00:07:16,316 --> 00:07:19,396 Speaker 3: If I really trusted you, I wouldn't need to know. 114 00:07:20,196 --> 00:07:22,196 Speaker 1: Oh, I see, yeah, do you. 115 00:07:22,316 --> 00:07:22,596 Speaker 4: What I mean? 116 00:07:22,676 --> 00:07:25,876 Speaker 3: So the problem is with transparency is when leaders promise 117 00:07:25,916 --> 00:07:28,676 Speaker 3: it and then an employee goes to them that says, well, 118 00:07:28,916 --> 00:07:32,236 Speaker 3: I really understand what that person's being paid, or how 119 00:07:32,236 --> 00:07:35,596 Speaker 3: the bonus structure works, or why you've changed the pricing 120 00:07:35,636 --> 00:07:38,996 Speaker 3: mechanism or whatever it may be, and then the leader goes, hmm, 121 00:07:39,236 --> 00:07:44,116 Speaker 3: I can't tell you that. Well, you promised to be transparent. Yeah, 122 00:07:44,156 --> 00:07:48,996 Speaker 3: So there's this difference between like being open and being 123 00:07:49,076 --> 00:07:52,556 Speaker 3: visible and promising for transparency. 124 00:07:53,436 --> 00:07:56,116 Speaker 2: What are so what if you do just put us 125 00:07:56,156 --> 00:07:59,596 Speaker 2: in the context of leaders who are managers trying to 126 00:07:59,636 --> 00:08:03,316 Speaker 2: create high trust teams? What advice do you give people 127 00:08:03,836 --> 00:08:04,756 Speaker 2: who are trying to do that. 128 00:08:07,396 --> 00:08:09,756 Speaker 3: Well, the first thing of the some people are trying 129 00:08:09,756 --> 00:08:14,396 Speaker 3: to create high trust teams because they're trying to be innovative. 130 00:08:14,436 --> 00:08:16,356 Speaker 3: They're trying to get those teams to be able to 131 00:08:16,356 --> 00:08:21,516 Speaker 3: tolerate uncertainty. So high trust teams and creative teams. There's 132 00:08:21,556 --> 00:08:25,876 Speaker 3: a real correlation there. So one of the things actually 133 00:08:25,916 --> 00:08:32,956 Speaker 3: say is don't mistake reducing risk for increasing trust. So 134 00:08:33,516 --> 00:08:37,196 Speaker 3: what a lot of teams do is they figure out 135 00:08:37,356 --> 00:08:39,676 Speaker 3: all the bad things that go wrong right at the beginning, 136 00:08:40,196 --> 00:08:43,596 Speaker 3: and it's a mindset. It's like, we'll just figure out 137 00:08:43,636 --> 00:08:47,236 Speaker 3: how to mitigate risks before they've even happened. And if 138 00:08:47,236 --> 00:08:50,596 Speaker 3: you create those kind of cultures in your teams, your 139 00:08:50,676 --> 00:08:55,516 Speaker 3: trust mindset, your tolerance for uncertainty and the unknown actually reduces. 140 00:08:56,156 --> 00:08:58,596 Speaker 3: So one of the really powerful things to do is 141 00:08:58,636 --> 00:09:02,636 Speaker 3: actually go, Okay, how does this team expand their capacity 142 00:09:02,836 --> 00:09:04,756 Speaker 3: to be in the unknown and to be in that 143 00:09:04,796 --> 00:09:08,276 Speaker 3: creative space versus how much of our culture is actually 144 00:09:08,276 --> 00:09:12,796 Speaker 3: wired to measuring and managing risks. That's a really big one. 145 00:09:14,876 --> 00:09:21,156 Speaker 3: Another one that I mean, that's harder to do because 146 00:09:21,316 --> 00:09:24,796 Speaker 3: I don't think many organizations think they think they're thinking 147 00:09:24,796 --> 00:09:27,356 Speaker 3: about trust, but they're actually thinking about risk. So that 148 00:09:27,476 --> 00:09:31,396 Speaker 3: shift is quite tricky. An easier one that you can 149 00:09:31,396 --> 00:09:36,076 Speaker 3: put into practice tomorrow is to become a better expectation setter. 150 00:09:37,036 --> 00:09:41,116 Speaker 3: So so many trust issues and I think many managers 151 00:09:41,116 --> 00:09:43,876 Speaker 3: and leaders are really bad at doing this is how 152 00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:50,076 Speaker 3: you set clear expectations that allow people to be empowered 153 00:09:50,596 --> 00:09:52,516 Speaker 3: and to sort of live and work in the unknown. 154 00:09:52,596 --> 00:09:54,516 Speaker 3: So it's like, this is what I expect of you 155 00:09:54,636 --> 00:09:57,356 Speaker 3: within this timeframe, within these boundaries. Now go play and 156 00:09:57,396 --> 00:10:00,596 Speaker 3: go and do it. But we're often really bad at 157 00:10:00,636 --> 00:10:01,756 Speaker 3: setting expectations. 158 00:10:01,996 --> 00:10:07,116 Speaker 2: Yeah, so tell me. We're about to listen to a 159 00:10:07,196 --> 00:10:09,076 Speaker 2: chapter from your book or an excerpt from your book. 160 00:10:09,316 --> 00:10:10,956 Speaker 2: Can you tee it up first? What are we about 161 00:10:10,996 --> 00:10:11,276 Speaker 2: to hear? 162 00:10:13,116 --> 00:10:18,036 Speaker 3: You're about to hear the introduction or chapter one, which 163 00:10:18,076 --> 00:10:22,556 Speaker 3: really lays the foundations on what trust is and how 164 00:10:22,556 --> 00:10:27,396 Speaker 3: it works in our lives. And I find it fascinating 165 00:10:27,396 --> 00:10:30,356 Speaker 3: and also a beautiful thing. That trust has more definitions 166 00:10:30,356 --> 00:10:35,276 Speaker 3: than love, so it is the most debated sociological concept 167 00:10:35,316 --> 00:10:39,196 Speaker 3: in our lives. And so in chapter one, we really 168 00:10:39,236 --> 00:10:42,916 Speaker 3: dig into this understanding of what trust is and how 169 00:10:42,956 --> 00:10:47,156 Speaker 3: it works, and how it influences your decisions and decisions 170 00:10:47,156 --> 00:10:50,076 Speaker 3: and choices in ways that you may be aware of 171 00:10:50,356 --> 00:10:52,236 Speaker 3: or may never have thought about before. 172 00:10:52,756 --> 00:10:55,396 Speaker 1: Yeah, wonderful, Rachel. 173 00:10:55,436 --> 00:11:00,396 Speaker 2: This has been really fun, and I I think I 174 00:11:00,436 --> 00:11:03,356 Speaker 2: speak for all of my listeners when I say that 175 00:11:03,396 --> 00:11:05,996 Speaker 2: we are looking forward to hearing what follows. 176 00:11:06,836 --> 00:11:09,316 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope it. I really hope it change the 177 00:11:09,356 --> 00:11:12,196 Speaker 3: way people think about trust. That's the reason for doing this. 178 00:11:12,436 --> 00:11:14,316 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the name of your book. 179 00:11:14,196 --> 00:11:20,036 Speaker 3: Is it's called How to Trust and Be Trusted intentionally 180 00:11:20,076 --> 00:11:22,756 Speaker 3: a two way title because trust is something that you 181 00:11:22,836 --> 00:11:26,396 Speaker 3: give and something that you earn, and we have to 182 00:11:26,436 --> 00:11:28,836 Speaker 3: think about both those things in our lives. 183 00:11:29,156 --> 00:11:31,436 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much, Rachel. 184 00:11:31,676 --> 00:11:33,276 Speaker 3: Thank you Malcolm. 185 00:11:33,556 --> 00:11:36,516 Speaker 2: How to Trust and Be Trusted by Rachel Batsman is 186 00:11:36,556 --> 00:11:41,756 Speaker 2: available on pushkin, dot Fm, Audible, Spotify, and anywhere you 187 00:11:41,796 --> 00:11:45,996 Speaker 2: get audiobooks. Keep listening for a preview of the audiobook. 188 00:11:52,916 --> 00:11:56,676 Speaker 3: Chapter one, how to give your Trust to the right people. 189 00:11:59,316 --> 00:12:05,316 Speaker 3: Have you ever trusted the wrong person? In this chapter, 190 00:12:05,676 --> 00:12:08,756 Speaker 3: I'm going to teach you a really important workplace skill, 191 00:12:10,636 --> 00:12:14,876 Speaker 3: how to give your trust to the right people, because 192 00:12:14,876 --> 00:12:18,196 Speaker 3: we can all learn how to make better trust decisions. 193 00:12:20,196 --> 00:12:24,636 Speaker 3: I know firsthand about bad trust decisions because when I 194 00:12:24,676 --> 00:12:27,996 Speaker 3: was five years old, my parents put their trust in 195 00:12:28,076 --> 00:12:50,396 Speaker 3: the wrong person, a nanny. Hello Dad, alright, I called 196 00:12:50,396 --> 00:12:52,436 Speaker 3: my dad to ask him more about it. 197 00:12:53,716 --> 00:12:58,396 Speaker 5: So I'm calling about the nanny. Mm hmm, you know 198 00:12:58,436 --> 00:12:59,076 Speaker 5: which nanny? 199 00:12:59,876 --> 00:13:01,276 Speaker 6: I think I know which nanny is. 200 00:13:01,796 --> 00:13:06,436 Speaker 3: And nanny are called Doris. It's hard to ever forget Doris. 201 00:13:07,156 --> 00:13:09,676 Speaker 5: What was your first impression of her? Sure, what do 202 00:13:09,716 --> 00:13:11,276 Speaker 5: you remember when she came into the house. 203 00:13:12,596 --> 00:13:18,476 Speaker 6: She was very unimpressive, which is quite a good feature. 204 00:13:18,756 --> 00:13:22,276 Speaker 5: No, pair unimpressive. What do you mean by that? 205 00:13:22,796 --> 00:13:26,276 Speaker 6: Well, she was so she was a bland person. It 206 00:13:26,316 --> 00:13:29,116 Speaker 6: was just inconceivable that somebody like that could do those 207 00:13:29,156 --> 00:13:30,196 Speaker 6: sorts of things. 208 00:13:30,676 --> 00:13:35,076 Speaker 3: Oh, yes, bland old Doris got up to all sorts 209 00:13:35,116 --> 00:13:38,996 Speaker 3: of things. The nanny my parents trusted to take care 210 00:13:39,036 --> 00:13:43,916 Speaker 3: of me and my brother turned out to be very untrustworthy. Indeed, 211 00:13:44,836 --> 00:13:47,796 Speaker 3: she forged my dad's signature to get a loan for 212 00:13:47,876 --> 00:13:52,556 Speaker 3: a car, She stole from us in the most brazen ways, 213 00:13:53,236 --> 00:14:00,236 Speaker 3: and she was even running a drugs ring. Really, deciding 214 00:14:00,396 --> 00:14:06,356 Speaker 3: whom to trust can be pretty complicated. Okay, so not 215 00:14:06,476 --> 00:14:10,836 Speaker 3: everyone has put their trust in a drug dealing nanny. However, 216 00:14:11,596 --> 00:14:14,036 Speaker 3: we all know how bad it feels to make a 217 00:14:14,156 --> 00:14:17,916 Speaker 3: poor trust decision. But I want you to be able 218 00:14:17,956 --> 00:14:21,916 Speaker 3: to make good trust decisions, because being able to trust 219 00:14:21,956 --> 00:14:25,916 Speaker 3: people is a positive thing and it will make you 220 00:14:26,036 --> 00:14:29,676 Speaker 3: better at your job. So I'm going to tell you 221 00:14:30,276 --> 00:14:35,036 Speaker 3: why we sometimes trust the wrong people like Dodgy Doris, 222 00:14:35,756 --> 00:14:41,596 Speaker 3: and I'll teach you how you can fix this problem. 223 00:14:41,716 --> 00:14:46,516 Speaker 3: So let's start by unpacking what trust actually is. It's 224 00:14:46,556 --> 00:14:49,676 Speaker 3: a word we use a lot in our lies. But 225 00:14:49,796 --> 00:14:52,836 Speaker 3: if I asked you to write down one word to 226 00:14:52,916 --> 00:15:01,996 Speaker 3: describe trust, what would it be. Maybe you're jotting down confidence, faith, 227 00:15:03,076 --> 00:15:08,036 Speaker 3: or perhaps risk. Some people think of trust as a state, 228 00:15:09,196 --> 00:15:14,716 Speaker 3: as an outcome, or a feeling, but trust is a belief. 229 00:15:15,156 --> 00:15:19,836 Speaker 3: It's your belief about how someone will behave or how 230 00:15:19,876 --> 00:15:23,876 Speaker 3: something will turn out. To go back to my definition 231 00:15:23,916 --> 00:15:30,756 Speaker 3: of trust, it's a confident relationship with the unknown. So 232 00:15:30,796 --> 00:15:33,916 Speaker 3: what does that mean in the workplace? Let me give 233 00:15:33,916 --> 00:15:37,636 Speaker 3: you an example. Trust is a belief that when someone 234 00:15:37,716 --> 00:15:40,196 Speaker 3: is working from home and you can't see what they're 235 00:15:40,316 --> 00:15:43,236 Speaker 3: up to, they will behave in a way that you expect. 236 00:15:43,956 --> 00:15:46,756 Speaker 3: They can be trusted to be productive and not let 237 00:15:46,796 --> 00:15:50,436 Speaker 3: you down. If you need to know exactly what someone 238 00:15:50,516 --> 00:15:53,836 Speaker 3: is doing and are constantly checking in and monitoring them 239 00:15:53,876 --> 00:16:00,516 Speaker 3: and asking them for updates, that's not trust, it's control. 240 00:16:02,196 --> 00:16:05,436 Speaker 3: Once you see trust as your belief lens, it can 241 00:16:05,516 --> 00:16:08,676 Speaker 3: have a profound impact on the way you make decisions 242 00:16:08,956 --> 00:16:14,956 Speaker 3: and how you behave at work. Trusting another person is complicated. 243 00:16:15,516 --> 00:16:18,676 Speaker 3: There's a whole host of factors that determine when and 244 00:16:18,836 --> 00:16:24,036 Speaker 3: how trustforms. For instance, how long you've known them, what 245 00:16:24,196 --> 00:16:28,076 Speaker 3: is the thing you're trusting them with or for, and 246 00:16:28,196 --> 00:16:31,516 Speaker 3: how bad would it really be if they let you down. 247 00:16:33,756 --> 00:16:37,796 Speaker 3: Stamford Business School professor Roderick Kramer found that eight out 248 00:16:37,796 --> 00:16:42,276 Speaker 3: of ten executives report being burned at least once because 249 00:16:42,316 --> 00:16:45,676 Speaker 3: they trusted the wrong person at some point in their career. 250 00:16:46,636 --> 00:16:49,436 Speaker 3: People tend to make poor trust decisions because they don't 251 00:16:49,516 --> 00:16:53,916 Speaker 3: understand how trust dynamics really work. So let me give 252 00:16:53,916 --> 00:16:57,516 Speaker 3: you a simple framework to help visualize how trust happens 253 00:16:57,796 --> 00:17:07,076 Speaker 3: between two people. In any relationship, there are two players, 254 00:17:07,436 --> 00:17:12,436 Speaker 3: the trust giver and the trust receiver. Let's start by 255 00:17:12,436 --> 00:17:14,836 Speaker 3: focusing on what it means to be the trust giver. 256 00:17:16,396 --> 00:17:19,436 Speaker 3: A trust giver is the person that is deciding whether 257 00:17:19,516 --> 00:17:23,596 Speaker 3: to trust someone a boss, a colleague, a friend, or, 258 00:17:23,636 --> 00:17:27,356 Speaker 3: in my dad's case, the nanny. As the trust giver, 259 00:17:27,956 --> 00:17:31,716 Speaker 3: we have an important choice, do we trust them or not. 260 00:17:32,876 --> 00:17:37,596 Speaker 3: What influences our choices and decisions is called a trust signal. 261 00:17:39,236 --> 00:17:43,436 Speaker 3: Trust signals are small clues we knowing me or unknowingly 262 00:17:43,596 --> 00:17:48,556 Speaker 3: used to decide whether another person should be trusted. How 263 00:17:48,636 --> 00:17:53,076 Speaker 3: someone speaks, the questions they ask, who they're with, what 264 00:17:53,276 --> 00:17:56,756 Speaker 3: they're wearing, and even how they say hi, how are you? 265 00:17:57,636 --> 00:18:01,476 Speaker 3: These are all trust signals. In other words, the way 266 00:18:01,516 --> 00:18:04,316 Speaker 3: we make a trust decision is based on pieces of 267 00:18:04,476 --> 00:18:08,996 Speaker 3: information we pick up from another person. The tricky thing 268 00:18:09,236 --> 00:18:13,396 Speaker 3: is we don't always look for or interpret trust signals 269 00:18:13,436 --> 00:18:17,796 Speaker 3: in the right way. Some trust signals are way louder 270 00:18:17,836 --> 00:18:22,756 Speaker 3: than others because often we are knowing need tune into 271 00:18:22,796 --> 00:18:26,476 Speaker 3: the signals that we want to see that are familiar 272 00:18:26,596 --> 00:18:30,396 Speaker 3: to us. Becoming aware of the trust signals you're tuning 273 00:18:30,436 --> 00:18:34,836 Speaker 3: into is the first important step in making smarter trust decisions. 274 00:18:38,676 --> 00:18:42,596 Speaker 3: Here's a simple exercise to try the next time you 275 00:18:42,756 --> 00:18:47,036 Speaker 3: meet someone for the first time, trying to stay aware 276 00:18:47,196 --> 00:18:52,156 Speaker 3: of what you're tuning into. Is it their voice, their clothes, 277 00:18:52,316 --> 00:18:58,196 Speaker 3: their demeanor, or their posture. Similarly, what questions do you 278 00:18:58,316 --> 00:19:02,276 Speaker 3: ask them in the first few minutes. Just becoming aware 279 00:19:02,276 --> 00:19:04,916 Speaker 3: of how you're looking for things that are familiar can 280 00:19:04,996 --> 00:19:10,076 Speaker 3: be powerful. Making trust decisions based on familarity is a 281 00:19:10,116 --> 00:19:15,396 Speaker 3: tricky behavior to change because our assumptions about whom to 282 00:19:15,476 --> 00:19:20,316 Speaker 3: trust are deeply wired. They're often biases that have been 283 00:19:20,316 --> 00:19:22,076 Speaker 3: with us since we were very young. 284 00:19:23,956 --> 00:19:27,476 Speaker 4: When you're about three months old, you start trusting people 285 00:19:27,516 --> 00:19:30,436 Speaker 4: who look like your parents more than other people. 286 00:19:31,676 --> 00:19:35,356 Speaker 3: Maria Konnikova is a psychologist and author who's written a 287 00:19:35,396 --> 00:19:39,996 Speaker 3: lot about distrust. She's an expert in the ways trust 288 00:19:40,076 --> 00:19:43,916 Speaker 3: is exploited by everyone from con artists to poker players, 289 00:19:44,516 --> 00:19:47,876 Speaker 3: and she happens to be a champion poker player herself. 290 00:19:49,196 --> 00:19:52,316 Speaker 4: We trust people who seem like us, who look like us, 291 00:19:52,316 --> 00:19:55,076 Speaker 4: who sound like us, much more than we do people 292 00:19:55,076 --> 00:19:57,196 Speaker 4: who don't. That's something that con artists, by the way, 293 00:19:57,236 --> 00:20:00,036 Speaker 4: manipulat all the time as well. Oh you know, you're 294 00:20:00,356 --> 00:20:02,396 Speaker 4: from New York. I'm from New York And they might 295 00:20:02,396 --> 00:20:04,596 Speaker 4: not have ever been to New York, but they try 296 00:20:04,596 --> 00:20:07,396 Speaker 4: to get those little superficial similarities so that we have 297 00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:08,916 Speaker 4: a basis for trust. 298 00:20:09,996 --> 00:20:14,236 Speaker 3: There's a fascinating study on the link between trust and familiarity. 299 00:20:14,916 --> 00:20:18,156 Speaker 3: The study, done by a professor named Lisa D. Bryan 300 00:20:18,356 --> 00:20:23,356 Speaker 3: from the University of Glasgow, showed how facial resemblance enhances trust. 301 00:20:24,036 --> 00:20:27,676 Speaker 3: Participants in an experiment were shown faces of strangers to 302 00:20:27,676 --> 00:20:31,476 Speaker 3: be potential playing partners for a game. When the face 303 00:20:31,516 --> 00:20:34,356 Speaker 3: of the stranger was similar to the face of the participant, 304 00:20:34,756 --> 00:20:41,836 Speaker 3: they were more likely to trust the unknown person. Take 305 00:20:41,876 --> 00:20:46,196 Speaker 3: a moment to think about that. Have you ever trusted 306 00:20:46,236 --> 00:20:52,076 Speaker 3: someone just because they felt familiar. Maybe they went to 307 00:20:52,116 --> 00:20:55,596 Speaker 3: the same school as you, like the same sports team, 308 00:20:56,236 --> 00:20:59,676 Speaker 3: or maybe, as in the study, they even looked a 309 00:20:59,716 --> 00:21:04,516 Speaker 3: bit like you. Familiar trust signals are often the loudest 310 00:21:04,636 --> 00:21:09,636 Speaker 3: because of what's known as confirmation and desirability bias. We 311 00:21:09,796 --> 00:21:13,716 Speaker 3: used them to confirm our own ideas about how someone 312 00:21:13,876 --> 00:21:16,956 Speaker 3: or something should be, or how we want them to be. 313 00:21:17,876 --> 00:21:24,876 Speaker 3: That's what happened with my parents and Doris the nanny. 314 00:21:24,996 --> 00:21:28,636 Speaker 3: She showed up wearing a navy colored uniform complete with 315 00:21:28,756 --> 00:21:32,196 Speaker 3: a bonnet hat. She had a mop of curly hair 316 00:21:32,276 --> 00:21:36,756 Speaker 3: and large steel rimmed glasses. She even played the tambourine. 317 00:21:37,076 --> 00:21:41,236 Speaker 3: I'm not joking. What a trustworthy person she must be. 318 00:21:42,036 --> 00:21:45,436 Speaker 3: And even when some major red flags started popping up, 319 00:21:45,636 --> 00:21:49,956 Speaker 3: my parents let the familiar trust signals override their better judgment. 320 00:21:51,076 --> 00:21:53,796 Speaker 3: There was the time Doris wanted to get away for 321 00:21:53,876 --> 00:21:57,516 Speaker 3: a weekend, so she said her uncle Charlie had died 322 00:21:58,076 --> 00:22:01,036 Speaker 3: and she needed to go to the funeral. My dad 323 00:22:01,076 --> 00:22:04,156 Speaker 3: found out this wasn't true. When he called Doris's mom 324 00:22:04,236 --> 00:22:08,716 Speaker 3: to express his condolences, and Doris's mom said, but Uncle 325 00:22:08,796 --> 00:22:12,396 Speaker 3: Charlie is just fine. Doris must be confused. 326 00:22:17,636 --> 00:22:22,796 Speaker 6: You can't be confused about what I'm gone dead. At 327 00:22:22,836 --> 00:22:27,636 Speaker 6: this point, being quite quick to grasp things, I thought 328 00:22:27,676 --> 00:22:28,476 Speaker 6: all was not well. 329 00:22:28,636 --> 00:22:31,116 Speaker 3: But you know, even after Uncle Charlie, she came with 330 00:22:31,196 --> 00:22:33,756 Speaker 3: us on a holiday to marlbea well. 331 00:22:33,796 --> 00:22:34,836 Speaker 6: That was very convenient. 332 00:22:34,916 --> 00:22:40,156 Speaker 3: Yes, even though we were only five and eight, my 333 00:22:40,316 --> 00:22:44,116 Speaker 3: brother and I could see how Doris was well different 334 00:22:44,356 --> 00:22:47,356 Speaker 3: when my parents were around. It was all an act, 335 00:22:48,076 --> 00:22:52,076 Speaker 3: and eventually even my dad couldn't ignore what he was seeing. 336 00:22:52,996 --> 00:22:55,636 Speaker 3: At the height of suspicion, he did something he'd never 337 00:22:55,676 --> 00:23:00,556 Speaker 3: done before. He searched Doris's room. He found a bag 338 00:23:00,636 --> 00:23:04,716 Speaker 3: of money under her bed, quite a lot of foreign currency, 339 00:23:05,356 --> 00:23:08,196 Speaker 3: and it happened to be from countries Dad had been 340 00:23:08,236 --> 00:23:09,636 Speaker 3: traveling to for work. 341 00:23:12,916 --> 00:23:18,916 Speaker 6: I did question her, and she told me that she'd 342 00:23:18,996 --> 00:23:21,636 Speaker 6: found the money under a tree in the park. 343 00:23:23,636 --> 00:23:25,316 Speaker 5: And we still didn't get rid of her. 344 00:23:26,356 --> 00:23:29,916 Speaker 6: No, And when I found more money in her room, 345 00:23:30,876 --> 00:23:33,196 Speaker 6: she said she'd gone back to the same. 346 00:23:32,956 --> 00:23:34,596 Speaker 5: Tree, same tree. 347 00:23:34,636 --> 00:23:38,436 Speaker 3: I want to know where this tree is dead, and 348 00:23:38,636 --> 00:23:42,636 Speaker 3: still Doris stayed with us. That was until my dad's 349 00:23:42,636 --> 00:23:46,396 Speaker 3: car went missing and he finally kicked her out, called 350 00:23:46,396 --> 00:23:49,396 Speaker 3: the police, and sat guard outside our front door with 351 00:23:49,476 --> 00:23:55,836 Speaker 3: a baseball bat. I imagine the Doris saga was in 352 00:23:55,956 --> 00:24:00,276 Speaker 3: part how I first took a deep interest in understanding trust. 353 00:24:01,316 --> 00:24:04,076 Speaker 3: Thinking back on it, my dad told me the decision 354 00:24:04,156 --> 00:24:08,596 Speaker 3: to trust Doris came down to convenience. My parents were 355 00:24:08,596 --> 00:24:12,436 Speaker 3: busy people with busy jobs. It was more convenient to 356 00:24:12,516 --> 00:24:17,116 Speaker 3: keep Doris than to find a different solution. It's easy 357 00:24:17,236 --> 00:24:21,556 Speaker 3: to dismiss or laugh at my dad's reasoning, but haven't 358 00:24:21,596 --> 00:24:25,716 Speaker 3: we all done that. Not hire a dodgy nanny, of course, 359 00:24:26,236 --> 00:24:29,476 Speaker 3: but make a trust decision or continue to trust someone 360 00:24:29,676 --> 00:24:35,356 Speaker 3: based on convenience, Like when you tell yourself, I know 361 00:24:35,436 --> 00:24:39,996 Speaker 3: that company isn't entirely ethical, they don't treat their employees well, 362 00:24:40,236 --> 00:24:43,516 Speaker 3: but their service it makes my life a little easier, 363 00:24:43,716 --> 00:24:47,276 Speaker 3: so I'll just carry on using them. Or perhaps you're 364 00:24:47,396 --> 00:24:51,196 Speaker 3: under pressure to get something done, so you conveniently delegate 365 00:24:51,236 --> 00:24:53,596 Speaker 3: a piece of work to a person when you know 366 00:24:54,036 --> 00:24:59,196 Speaker 3: they shouldn't really be doing it. Convenience so often Trump's trust. 367 00:25:00,316 --> 00:25:03,956 Speaker 3: Understanding the power convenience has over trust has been one 368 00:25:03,996 --> 00:25:07,916 Speaker 3: of the most important things I've learned about being a 369 00:25:07,956 --> 00:25:16,156 Speaker 3: trust giver. Let's try another exercise. Think of the last 370 00:25:16,156 --> 00:25:20,076 Speaker 3: time you made a poor or very bad trust decision 371 00:25:20,076 --> 00:25:27,276 Speaker 3: at work. Did you blame it on the character of 372 00:25:27,316 --> 00:25:34,876 Speaker 3: the other person They turned out to be unreliable, incompetent, dishonest, 373 00:25:35,196 --> 00:25:42,716 Speaker 3: or you fill in the blank. Someone's character plays a 374 00:25:42,756 --> 00:25:46,916 Speaker 3: critical role, but what we often overlook is the importance 375 00:25:47,076 --> 00:25:52,316 Speaker 3: of having the right information. As the social scientist Diego 376 00:25:52,396 --> 00:25:57,156 Speaker 3: Gambetta puts it, trust has two enemies, not one bad 377 00:25:57,276 --> 00:26:03,476 Speaker 3: character and poor information. So the next time you find 378 00:26:03,516 --> 00:26:08,756 Speaker 3: yourself making an important trust decision, I'd recommend asking yourself 379 00:26:08,956 --> 00:26:14,956 Speaker 3: these three questions. What what trust signals? Am I tuning 380 00:26:14,996 --> 00:26:20,956 Speaker 3: into Two? Am I trusting this person out of convenience? 381 00:26:22,156 --> 00:26:26,676 Speaker 3: And three? Am I making this trust decision too quickly? 382 00:26:28,876 --> 00:26:34,036 Speaker 3: Now let's look at something else that influences what trust signals. 383 00:26:34,196 --> 00:26:40,356 Speaker 3: We pay attention to our gut. My dad's gut told 384 00:26:40,396 --> 00:26:44,196 Speaker 3: him that a nanny who's seen bland was a safe one. 385 00:26:44,716 --> 00:26:48,156 Speaker 3: His gut told him that blandness was a good trust signal. 386 00:26:48,756 --> 00:26:52,916 Speaker 3: But our gut feeling or intuition is rarely the source 387 00:26:53,076 --> 00:26:58,196 Speaker 3: of trustworthy decisions. For Maria Khonnikova, the expert in distrust, 388 00:26:58,476 --> 00:27:02,436 Speaker 3: there's a common saying about this that's a real pet peeve. 389 00:27:03,316 --> 00:27:06,396 Speaker 4: Trusting your gut. I hate that phrase, and I think 390 00:27:06,516 --> 00:27:10,636 Speaker 4: it's very misleading and very bad at because here's what 391 00:27:10,756 --> 00:27:14,556 Speaker 4: we know from psychology. Our quote unquote gut has very 392 00:27:14,636 --> 00:27:18,836 Speaker 4: strong reactions, and they're sometimes correct and sometimes wrong, and 393 00:27:20,196 --> 00:27:25,076 Speaker 4: our ability to distinguish the two is at about fifty 394 00:27:25,116 --> 00:27:28,916 Speaker 4: to fifty, so a chance we have very little ability 395 00:27:29,076 --> 00:27:33,756 Speaker 4: to be able to figure out which our gut feelings 396 00:27:33,796 --> 00:27:35,956 Speaker 4: are correct and which are not correct. 397 00:27:40,676 --> 00:27:43,076 Speaker 3: So let me share with you something from my research 398 00:27:43,316 --> 00:27:45,916 Speaker 3: that has made me think differently about the role of 399 00:27:45,956 --> 00:27:50,156 Speaker 3: gut feeling in giving trust. Gut feeling is not the 400 00:27:50,236 --> 00:27:56,036 Speaker 3: decision maker, but a decision driver. So use your intuition, 401 00:27:56,476 --> 00:28:00,316 Speaker 3: but challenge it with other information to make sure it's accurate. 402 00:28:01,436 --> 00:28:05,196 Speaker 3: Here's how this might come up in your job when 403 00:28:05,236 --> 00:28:07,956 Speaker 3: you're thinking about how to have a difficult conversation with 404 00:28:08,036 --> 00:28:11,636 Speaker 3: a colleague, or when you're taking a brief from a 405 00:28:11,676 --> 00:28:15,716 Speaker 3: potential client and you're not entirely sure what they do, 406 00:28:16,676 --> 00:28:21,556 Speaker 3: and of course when you're hiring someone new. Don't let 407 00:28:21,636 --> 00:28:23,876 Speaker 3: your gut make the trust decision. 408 00:28:33,076 --> 00:28:35,956 Speaker 4: Throw your gut out the window. You don't know. You 409 00:28:36,036 --> 00:28:40,156 Speaker 4: are relying on people perception that is most often wrong. 410 00:28:40,596 --> 00:28:43,476 Speaker 4: That is why so many hiring decisions are so terrible, 411 00:28:43,716 --> 00:28:47,196 Speaker 4: because people go with those feelings. And we know that 412 00:28:47,236 --> 00:28:50,236 Speaker 4: those thin slice judgments are made within the first few 413 00:28:50,276 --> 00:28:53,436 Speaker 4: seconds of meeting someone, and that's when you're hiring decision 414 00:28:53,476 --> 00:28:56,076 Speaker 4: is made. And that's just crazy. How can you base 415 00:28:56,476 --> 00:28:59,556 Speaker 4: someone you're going to hire into your organization based on 416 00:28:59,596 --> 00:29:02,996 Speaker 4: two seconds, ten seconds, it doesn't even matter, twenty seconds. 417 00:29:03,076 --> 00:29:06,476 Speaker 4: Anything that has seconds after it should not be a 418 00:29:06,516 --> 00:29:08,436 Speaker 4: basis for such an enormous decision. 419 00:29:09,516 --> 00:29:14,436 Speaker 3: Instead of making important trust decisions in seconds, Maria recommends 420 00:29:14,516 --> 00:29:17,836 Speaker 3: going by the old mattra that former President Ronald Reagan 421 00:29:17,956 --> 00:29:21,396 Speaker 3: was so fond of trust. But verify. 422 00:29:22,756 --> 00:29:26,556 Speaker 4: Our default has to be trust. Right initially, you have 423 00:29:26,636 --> 00:29:29,556 Speaker 4: to believe the things you hear, believe the people you meet. 424 00:29:29,956 --> 00:29:32,196 Speaker 4: You're not going to be able to go through life 425 00:29:32,276 --> 00:29:38,476 Speaker 4: if every single moment you're doubting everything, and it's completely impractical. However, 426 00:29:38,836 --> 00:29:43,156 Speaker 4: you have to have that second verification stage. Verify, Verify 427 00:29:43,236 --> 00:29:47,316 Speaker 4: everything that's important, and verify even when you don't really 428 00:29:47,316 --> 00:29:47,676 Speaker 4: want to. 429 00:29:48,876 --> 00:29:52,396 Speaker 3: Nobel Laureate Daniel Carneman's definition of a gut feeling is 430 00:29:52,476 --> 00:29:56,756 Speaker 3: spot on. He says, a gut feeling is thinking that 431 00:29:56,836 --> 00:30:01,476 Speaker 3: you know without knowing why you do. Even though I've 432 00:30:01,476 --> 00:30:04,316 Speaker 3: studied the ins and outs of trust for over a decade, 433 00:30:04,476 --> 00:30:10,436 Speaker 3: I have still gone with my gut countless times. Sometimes 434 00:30:10,676 --> 00:30:14,716 Speaker 3: things have gone right and other times things have gone 435 00:30:14,956 --> 00:30:18,516 Speaker 3: horribly wrong. So let me share with you a useful 436 00:30:18,556 --> 00:30:22,196 Speaker 3: tool that will help you better read trust signals. It's 437 00:30:22,236 --> 00:30:27,116 Speaker 3: called a trust pause. A trust pause is a healthy 438 00:30:27,156 --> 00:30:31,036 Speaker 3: hesitation where we question if a person, a product, or 439 00:30:31,076 --> 00:30:35,676 Speaker 3: a piece of information is worthy of out trust. If 440 00:30:35,676 --> 00:30:38,916 Speaker 3: you find yourself wanting to make a trust decision quickly 441 00:30:39,356 --> 00:30:44,356 Speaker 3: from your gut, take a trust pause and ask yourself 442 00:30:44,556 --> 00:30:50,916 Speaker 3: the following questions, where is this confidence coming from? Am 443 00:30:50,956 --> 00:30:55,436 Speaker 3: I seeing or hearing something I want or need to 444 00:30:55,476 --> 00:30:59,436 Speaker 3: believe to be true? Is it because this person feels 445 00:30:59,556 --> 00:31:04,516 Speaker 3: familiar or similar to me? And a really important question, 446 00:31:05,516 --> 00:31:09,076 Speaker 3: what information do I still need to make a relation 447 00:31:09,116 --> 00:31:15,956 Speaker 3: liable decision? When you put these questions into practice, they 448 00:31:15,996 --> 00:31:20,316 Speaker 3: will intentionally slow you down. Now, I know that in 449 00:31:20,356 --> 00:31:24,916 Speaker 3: a world that's so driven by efficiency. This might sound counterintuitive, 450 00:31:25,436 --> 00:31:31,396 Speaker 3: but speed can be the enemy of trust. I'm not 451 00:31:31,436 --> 00:31:36,476 Speaker 3: suggesting you overthink every single trust decision. I mean, you'd 452 00:31:36,516 --> 00:31:40,196 Speaker 3: never leave the house, But if it's something important, take 453 00:31:40,436 --> 00:31:45,836 Speaker 3: a trust pause. For example, if you have some sensitive 454 00:31:46,076 --> 00:31:49,716 Speaker 3: or confidential information to share with your boss, take a 455 00:31:49,756 --> 00:31:53,076 Speaker 3: trust pause before speaking to them. If you're going for 456 00:31:53,116 --> 00:31:56,556 Speaker 3: a new role in an organization, take a trust pause 457 00:31:56,636 --> 00:31:59,716 Speaker 3: to speak to someone in a similar position. If you're 458 00:31:59,716 --> 00:32:03,196 Speaker 3: starting an important contract with a new supplier, take a 459 00:32:03,236 --> 00:32:08,796 Speaker 3: trust pause to speak to some other customers. Are you sure? 460 00:32:09,596 --> 00:32:13,876 Speaker 3: Are you sure? That's at the heart of a trust pause. 461 00:32:14,956 --> 00:32:18,716 Speaker 3: It might feel like you're wasting valuable time, but otherwise 462 00:32:19,116 --> 00:32:22,236 Speaker 3: you may be left wondering why you didn't pause for 463 00:32:22,276 --> 00:32:27,236 Speaker 3: a bit longer before giving your trust. Because once trust 464 00:32:27,236 --> 00:32:31,316 Speaker 3: has been given, it's in the other person's hands to 465 00:32:31,396 --> 00:32:37,716 Speaker 3: take care of or break. My dad could have taken 466 00:32:37,836 --> 00:32:41,316 Speaker 3: a trust pause with Doris and it would have saved 467 00:32:41,556 --> 00:32:46,396 Speaker 3: a lot of anguish and his vovo. Of course, there 468 00:32:46,396 --> 00:32:52,276 Speaker 3: are regrets, but after everything, it hasn't really changed my dad. 469 00:32:53,076 --> 00:32:55,596 Speaker 3: He just tends to trust people. 470 00:32:56,516 --> 00:33:01,396 Speaker 6: I have run my life on the basis of trusting people, 471 00:33:02,196 --> 00:33:07,236 Speaker 6: and I've found that generally that has worked out for me, 472 00:33:07,356 --> 00:33:11,556 Speaker 6: and has that trust been abused a bit, But I 473 00:33:11,596 --> 00:33:14,036 Speaker 6: think that what I've gained from trusting people is more 474 00:33:14,076 --> 00:33:16,916 Speaker 6: than if I've been constantly look here at my shoulder, 475 00:33:17,076 --> 00:33:20,876 Speaker 6: not trusting people, and by and large that worked out. 476 00:33:20,916 --> 00:33:26,236 Speaker 3: Okay, some people trust too much and too readily, Like 477 00:33:26,316 --> 00:33:30,916 Speaker 3: my dad, they have what psychologists call a hyperpensity to trust. 478 00:33:31,556 --> 00:33:34,156 Speaker 3: They assume they won't be taken advantage of. 479 00:33:34,996 --> 00:33:38,916 Speaker 4: Human beings are wired to trust. Trust as our default state, 480 00:33:39,316 --> 00:33:42,316 Speaker 4: and the only reason society exists and all of our 481 00:33:42,356 --> 00:33:46,316 Speaker 4: institutions exist and just the world functions is because of trust. 482 00:33:48,116 --> 00:33:52,596 Speaker 3: Here's something else Maria helped me rethink the existence of 483 00:33:52,676 --> 00:33:57,716 Speaker 3: con Artists like Doris actually says something very good about 484 00:33:57,796 --> 00:34:02,436 Speaker 3: humanity that may sound strange, but the only reason they 485 00:34:02,476 --> 00:34:06,716 Speaker 3: succeed is because as people, for the most part, we 486 00:34:06,756 --> 00:34:11,396 Speaker 3: are trusting. As the late master magician Ricky Jay once said, 487 00:34:12,756 --> 00:34:14,476 Speaker 3: you wouldn't want to live in a world where you 488 00:34:14,476 --> 00:34:18,476 Speaker 3: couldn't be conned, because it would mean you're living in 489 00:34:18,516 --> 00:34:21,836 Speaker 3: a world where you never trusted anyone or anything. 490 00:34:22,916 --> 00:34:25,516 Speaker 4: And that to me just gets at the heart of it. 491 00:34:25,996 --> 00:34:28,236 Speaker 4: You know, the fact that I can get conned is 492 00:34:28,916 --> 00:34:31,116 Speaker 4: the flip side of the fact that I believe in things, 493 00:34:31,156 --> 00:34:33,996 Speaker 4: I believe in people, and that's beautiful. 494 00:34:35,876 --> 00:34:41,316 Speaker 3: There's no one size fits all approach to trust giving. Ultimately, 495 00:34:41,916 --> 00:34:47,036 Speaker 3: trust is a choice. It's yours to give or not. 496 00:34:51,636 --> 00:34:54,756 Speaker 3: So let's just recap the four main ideas about giving 497 00:34:54,796 --> 00:34:58,196 Speaker 3: trust that you can now put into practice. 498 00:34:58,476 --> 00:34:59,316 Speaker 4: One. 499 00:34:59,636 --> 00:35:02,916 Speaker 3: Be aware of the trust signals you're tuning into by 500 00:35:02,996 --> 00:35:08,956 Speaker 3: remembering that we tend to trust what's familiar. Two, recognize 501 00:35:09,316 --> 00:35:15,716 Speaker 3: when you're allowing convenience to trump trust. Three, reframe your 502 00:35:15,756 --> 00:35:20,276 Speaker 3: gap feeling as a decision driver, not the decision maker. 503 00:35:21,676 --> 00:35:26,436 Speaker 3: And finally, four speed can be the enemy of trust, 504 00:35:26,956 --> 00:35:30,436 Speaker 3: So take a trust pause to get the right information. 505 00:35:32,836 --> 00:35:34,756 Speaker 3: I'm going to leave you with a question to think 506 00:35:34,756 --> 00:35:38,836 Speaker 3: about as we head into chapter two. How do you 507 00:35:38,916 --> 00:35:40,716 Speaker 3: get someone else to trust you?