1 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: It is continuing coverage of the twenty twenty six NFL 2 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Combine live from Indianapolis on the Steelers Audio Network, presented 3 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: by First National Bank. Can your bank do that? Welcome 4 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: to FNB. Let's get started. Member FDIC Iron Workers Local 5 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: Union number three. We don't go to the office, We 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: build it. Schneider Downs discover the value of big thinking 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: with a personal focus at Schneiderdowns dot com, your neighborhood 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: Ford store. The Ford F one fifty is the official 9 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: truck of the Pittsburgh Steelers and by US deal mine 10 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: melted made in the USA. 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 2: Good afternoon, Steelers Nation. 12 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 3: It's the drive live for Radio Row at the twenty 13 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 3: twenty six Combine. West Shuoler and Matt Williamson with you 14 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 3: for the next three hours. And we've got a heavy 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 3: hitter with us here to begin. Greg co Sell, of 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 3: course of NFL films. 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 4: So nice, the first and Combine history, So nice for 18 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,639 Speaker 4: having them on tw us exactly. Never had a repeat 19 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 4: through guests before, but this is my favorite one. Let's 20 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 4: do it. 21 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 2: So what do you I was not part of the 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: first conversation. 23 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 4: The Yeah, we talked about all kinds of stuff. 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 2: You tell me where you want to go with this one. 25 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 4: I really wanted to focus on some league wide trends 26 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 4: with you, Greg, Okay, I know that you're you're so 27 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 4: dialed in with you know, up to date with the league, 28 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 4: and there's on both sides of the ball. But let's 29 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 4: start with a real increase which really effect was a 30 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 4: Steeler thing too, that from past year in thirteen personnel. 31 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 4: You know, like, oh yeah McVeigh and the Rams, I mean, 32 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 4: they're such chameleons there and they've changed year after year. 33 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 4: What advantages does that present? And do you see that 34 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 4: sticking around the league for a while. 35 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 5: Well, you know, it's funny that the Rams through the 36 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 5: first five games of the season did not play one 37 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 5: snap of thirteen personnel, and then week six they started, 38 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 5: and then there were games where they would play forty 39 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 5: to fifty snaps of thirteen personnel. 40 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 4: Well even with two great receivers on the team. 41 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, and when they started playing thirteen personnel, believe it 42 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 5: or not, the only wide receiver on the field was 43 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 5: DeVante Adams, not Pooka the cout. Not that DeVante Adams 44 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 5: is a bad player, right, but it wasn't Puka. And 45 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 5: then they right, right, and of course, then you know, 46 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 5: DeVante got hurt in miss Games and Puca started playing 47 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 5: in the thirteen personnel as the only receiver. But you know, 48 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 5: obviously the first thing it does is it forces the 49 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 5: defense to decide how they want to play from a 50 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 5: personnel standpoint, because you know, you just think as a 51 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 5: general thing, oh, thirteen personnel, three tight ends, you're going 52 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 5: to line up in your base defense, meaning you've got 53 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 5: four defensive backs on the field and and you know, 54 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 5: seven bigger people. Whether you play a five to two 55 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 5: front or a four to three, you have seven bigger people. 56 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 5: But if you have the right mix of tight ends, 57 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 5: which the Rams did because they basically had someone like, 58 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 5: you know, Davis Allen, who was kind of the blocking 59 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 5: tight end, so if they lined up with a two backfield, 60 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 5: said he was always in the backfield. They had someone 61 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 5: like Kolbe Parkinson who's kind of a combo platter. He 62 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 5: could line up attached to the formation to be a blocker, 63 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 5: he could split out a little bit. You know, they 64 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 5: had Higbee who definitely could do both and you know, 65 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 5: probably better deployed a little more detached, but could do both. 66 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 5: Then they had Fergus in the rookie from Oregon who's 67 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 5: clearly a detached players. I think he ran a four 68 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 5: or five or so here's their first company. Yeah, so 69 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 5: you know, so obviously, as I said, it starts with 70 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 5: what does the defense decide to do from a personnel standpoint, 71 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 5: because now there are formations that the Rams could use 72 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 5: and other teams as well that played out of thirteen 73 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 5: depending on who those tight ends were. You know, they 74 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 5: become multiple, they become diverse how defenses match up. Almost 75 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 5: every defense would match up playing some form of zone. 76 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 5: Because if you start detaching tight ends and you're playing 77 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 5: with only four DB's on the field, you know, now 78 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 5: you're asking perhaps stacked back is to play in space. 79 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 5: They're not used to that. Yeah, so you know, they 80 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 5: almost know what they're going to get from the defense 81 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 5: before the play even starts. And if there's some predictability 82 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 5: or little variants let's use that term. Coaches like to 83 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 5: use that term little variants in what you're getting from 84 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 5: the defense, then you feel pretty comfortable with your play 85 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 5: calls because you essentially know what you're going to. 86 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 4: Get, especially if you have a combination of mcvayh and 87 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 4: Stafford right and everything, and you curaniculate people. 88 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 5: So you know, the question is does that become a 89 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 5: bigger trend because you need to write people or is 90 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 5: it just a case of you know, certain teams. You know, look, 91 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 5: the Steelers did some of it, but it's not as 92 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 5: if they were, you know, throwing it all over the 93 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 5: field when they did it. You know. The other thing 94 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 5: that sort of is ancillary. The carollary to the thirteen 95 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 5: personnel is a lot of teams played with six offensive 96 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 5: linemen this year. Yeah, Houston was a big six a 97 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 5: line personnel offense. 98 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 4: I thought the Bills were really interesting because last year 99 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 4: they were. 100 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 5: Super heavy, but then they got backs in Hawes. 101 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 4: Who's kind of the darknet watching right right, right. 102 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 5: Right right. So yeah, no, it's it's really you know again, 103 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 5: when none of us can sit here and say, oh, 104 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 5: we're going to see more and more of it. We 105 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 5: don't know the answer to that, but it can give 106 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 5: you definite advantages if you have the right trio of 107 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 5: tight ends. 108 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 4: So going back, you know the last twenty years, college 109 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 4: linebackers are not used to taking on an old school 110 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 4: lead knocking null back and they don't even know it 111 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 4: creates a new gap coming into the b gap or whatever. 112 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 4: How does it affect the run game having those three 113 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 4: tight ends on the field, is, well, you create different gaps, 114 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 4: create different blocking angles. 115 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 5: You're forcing linebackers who, as you say, because that's what 116 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 5: the college game is giving the NFL, you know their 117 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 5: Playot's game is there's very few. It's funny there is 118 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 5: one this year in Sunny Styles who's big. I'm sure 119 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 5: there's more than one, but I just he's really good. 120 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 5: But way yeah, I just haven't gotten to the linebackers yet, 121 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 5: so I don't want to make it seem like there's 122 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 5: no other linebackers like that. But the point is what 123 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 5: linebackers then have to be able to do is the 124 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 5: term we use is stack and shed. They're going to 125 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 5: have to be able to play with physicality, you know, 126 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 5: dealing with right and dealing with a line right right. 127 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 5: So now do you have to be two hundred and 128 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 5: fifty pounds. No, but it's hard to do with a 129 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 5: two twenty. You know. There's some great examples this year 130 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 5: like Kyle Lewis, you know from from Pitt who I 131 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 5: haven't studied him in detail, but just seeing some some 132 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 5: plays or some games where I was watching an offense 133 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 5: playing against Pitt. He looks like a safety the build 134 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 5: that he has, and he may end up being a 135 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 5: guy that could be used in the IM and war 136 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 5: we roll for instance. That was a trend that was 137 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 5: going to bring up at check Point because they're not 138 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 5: going to be thirty of those guys. But you know, 139 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 5: linebackers have to be able to stack in shed. They 140 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 5: have to be able to use their hands to control 141 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 5: and you know, control displays that stack and shed whatever 142 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 5: term you want to use. And a lot of college 143 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 5: linebackers are. 144 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 4: They don't really do that, and they're small, Yeah, and 145 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 4: they're small wasted right right, so one hundred pounds, yeah, guys. 146 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 5: Yeah, So it's you know, we'll see about the you know, 147 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 5: it all factors into what you said, Matt. With the 148 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 5: run game, you know, are we're going to see more 149 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 5: run game? You know, it's it's. 150 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 4: We're definitely seeing heavier personnel. 151 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, now that we know what we're seeing for sure. 152 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,239 Speaker 5: So you know, we'll see if we end up seeing 153 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 5: more run game or not. 154 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 4: You know this better than I, But it seems like 155 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 4: the biggest goal and it's easier said than done. Seattle 156 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 4: was the master of it. But if I can I 157 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 4: always use the NBA equivalent if I can play defense 158 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 4: against big people or a bunch of guards with the 159 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 4: same starting five, right, right, I don't have the substitute. 160 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 4: And you know, Seattle used a lot of different people, 161 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 4: but they use the big nickel. 162 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 5: And these different people up front. 163 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, they laid a rotation. 164 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 5: Essentially, they played big nickel and dime. That's when they 165 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 5: essentially did. They were never in base hardly you hardly ever? 166 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 4: Right, So do you have to have great defensive tackles 167 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 4: first and foremost to pull that off? Because a lot 168 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 4: of the teams were playing with lighter boxes too high. 169 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 4: Fangio still explosives of what everybody fears on defense, but 170 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 4: they want to be enough without getting I think where. 171 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 5: The defensive tackles come in is more a function of 172 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 5: the increase in you know, sort of quarters or too high. Okay, yeah, 173 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 5: because what happens there you're you're you do not have 174 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 5: a safety in the box who takes an extra gap, 175 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 5: So now you're losing a gap. So now you're defensive tackles. 176 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 5: Without going into the weeds on this, but I think 177 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 5: people can understand it is they be they have to 178 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 5: play what coaches called gap and a half. It's not 179 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 5: old Steelers, you know, you do that this and the 180 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 5: peekaboo and where's he going right and splitting. But they 181 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 5: have to be, you know, be able to play not 182 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 5: just one gap but then half gap. And if both 183 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 5: do that, then you they take care of that extra 184 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 5: gap because half and a half is one. So you know, 185 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 5: they so detailed. 186 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 4: I don't quite understand is how they do that from 187 00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 4: a technique standpoint. 188 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 5: That's yeah. I don't know that for sure. 189 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know how they coach that. 190 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 5: That's a coaching thing. 191 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 4: I don't know that for sure. 192 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 5: But I mean you look at the two teams in 193 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 5: the Super Bowl and look at their defensive tackles. You 194 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 5: had Leonard Williams and Byron Murphy and Jaron Red a 195 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 5: very good metational tackle, you know. For the Patriots who 196 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 5: had Christian Barmore and Milton Williams, and then they had 197 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 5: the rookie free agent Durten who turned out to be 198 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 5: a very good player and Tonga as well, a big guy. 199 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 4: So I think they're more important than they have been. Well, 200 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 4: that's yeah. 201 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 5: If I think teams continue to play more of that 202 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 5: quarter's look which of course, one reason that that's become 203 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 5: in vogue as well is because it takes away the seams, 204 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 5: because when you're playing single high, there's just too many voids, 205 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 5: and the seams in particular can be a problem. So, 206 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 5: you know, everything sort of there's a domino effect with everything. 207 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 5: And then, of course all this is cyclical. We'll see 208 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 5: maybe we see this for two years and then an 209 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 5: offensive defense they come up with something to deal with it, 210 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 5: and then all of a sudden things change again. Look, 211 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 5: you go back to the legion of Boom and everybody 212 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 5: wanted to play cover three, which they did, you know, 213 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 5: but then what starts to happen is the voids. Offense 214 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 5: has figured out the voids. Not every team had all 215 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 5: Timas playing post safety, because for four or five years 216 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 5: he was the best post safety in the league. Just 217 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 5: like not every team's gonna have m and Warry, So 218 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 5: you know a lot of teams might want to play 219 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 5: quote unquote big Nickel. We're in a sense you're playing 220 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 5: with three safeties, but that one safety m and Worry 221 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 5: is almost like a Sam linebacker. 222 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 4: He's closer to a linebacker than a safety for sure. 223 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 5: So you know you need the right people to do 224 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 5: those things as well. 225 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 4: So along those lines, and it's a hot topic. Now 226 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 4: everybody wants their m and worry and they don't grow 227 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 4: on trees, of course. 228 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 5: But everybody wants big guys and fast guys are supposed 229 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 5: to slow guys and small girl. 230 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 4: That hasn't changed, yeah, but like there's a lot of 231 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 4: them in the league, brand the gene and people that 232 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 4: they look at these guys like their corners first, right, 233 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 4: and they really aren't that much different in my opinion, Hamilton, 234 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 4: Derwin James. 235 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 5: Those are the emin Worr, Derwin James and Hamilton that 236 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 5: are sort of I mean, they're all six two and 237 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 5: a half plus two fifteen plus, but take on no line, right, 238 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 5: and there's not going to be thirty of those guys. 239 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 4: Though, No, So like, for example, the Steelers by detections 240 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 4: in the in the playoff game, right, and everybody's like, boy, 241 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 4: these edge defenders are so nasty and Stingley in the 242 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 4: corners are great and all that stuff's true. But when 243 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 4: I previewed it, I tried to tell the audience Petrie's 244 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 4: the guy that brings the room together, you know, he's 245 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 4: a those and that big nickel guy he's a. 246 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 5: Really big nickel and he's not big so but he 247 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,479 Speaker 5: plays big and he past bigger. 248 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 4: And at the Gene. 249 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, and theoretically the Gene fits that role even though 250 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 5: he's technically a slot corner. 251 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, but you know so, I think that's why 252 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 4: the Steelers got Ramsey. But it couldn't keep doing it. 253 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 5: So, you know, again, I'd have to study in immense detail. 254 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 5: And I'm only one person, how truly the Texans Jew's 255 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 5: Petrie because he certainly is not I Men Warrior or 256 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 5: Drewin James. 257 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 4: If they walk in the room, they don't work saying. 258 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 5: No, no, no, no, uh and then see exactly. I mean, 259 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 5: I kind of know how the Eagles used a Gene, 260 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 5: although he didn't really play in the bach very much. 261 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 5: Degene he was almost a true you know, slot corner. 262 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 5: I mean, obviously there were times based on formation he did, 263 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 5: you know, move a little bit to be more of 264 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 5: an overhang guy than a slot you know, depending on 265 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 5: what the defensive call was. But he wasn't truly used 266 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 5: in the exact same way emn Wary was or Drewin James, 267 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 5: who very often lines up, you know, on the edge, 268 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 5: you know, a lot I mean, so you know, look, 269 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 5: it's just different philosophies with different coaches. But the bottom 270 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 5: line point is, you know what, what do you always 271 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 5: here after a Super Bowl? You always hear that, oh, 272 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 5: there's the blueprint. You know, there's the blueprint. You know 273 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 5: that's great if you have him Norriri. 274 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 4: You know, if you have the talent, it right right 275 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 4: right lasting along those lines too, I think the Shanahan's 276 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 4: and mcvay's and so many others not too but are 277 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 4: so good good at making your cornerbacks tackle. 278 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 5: Yeah. 279 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 4: I mean in the day you could just have coverage 280 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 4: corners and now they're gonna run Derrick Henry at Hilton 281 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 4: in the slot. I mean, it just seems like a 282 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 4: lot of the smaller slot receivers and especially corners are 283 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 4: starting to really fade away because they can't defend their 284 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 4: on No. 285 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 5: And it's funny you say that, because I think that's 286 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 5: where you know, there's more and more pre snap movement 287 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 5: in the game than ever. And most people think about 288 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 5: pre snap movement in terms of the pass game, but 289 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 5: it's really a big deal in the run game because 290 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 5: it messes with your run support principles. I almost and 291 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 5: you know, just because I'm older and I've been doing 292 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 5: this for a long time. What I'm seeing a lot 293 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 5: of reminded me of Joe Gibbs and the Washington Redskins 294 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 5: in the eighties who did a ton of motion, and 295 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 5: you do it to mess with run support. You know. 296 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 5: There was a game this year with Ben Johnson that 297 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 5: I remember, like it was yesterday when they came to 298 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 5: Philadelphia and beat the Eagles and ran for you know, 299 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 5: two hundred and fifty or three hundred yards, and the 300 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 5: way he used pre snap movement motion in the run 301 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 5: game was just masterful. It screwed the Eagles, you know, 302 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 5: run support up, the numbers got screwed up. 303 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 4: They started the blocking angles and then and Negles. 304 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 5: Started moving people around, which they normally don't like to do, 305 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 5: you know. 306 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 4: So you could tell they were scrambling. Yeah, yeah, they 307 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 4: would have any They. 308 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 5: Were trying to figure it out during the game, yeah, 309 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 5: you know, and and it didn't quite work. But yeah, 310 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 5: so you know, you know, I think that that that's 311 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 5: one reason there's so much more you know, that's another 312 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 5: theoretical trend in the league is there's more pre snap movement. 313 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 4: The last thing I have where I didn't want to 314 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 4: keep you forever the second trip. But it seems like 315 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 4: under center is starting to really become a big trend too. 316 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 5: Well, I'm a big believer in that, And I heard 317 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 5: Josh Daniels say something that I've been saying for years, 318 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 5: not that I you know, not that I sent the trend. 319 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 5: He's obviously smarter than I am. But I always believe 320 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 5: that that under center play action was way more effective 321 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 5: than shotgun play action, because what is the point of 322 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 5: play action. The point of play action is to put 323 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 5: second level defenders in conflict. That's one of the points. Obviously, 324 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 5: you just freeze them for a right and because because 325 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 5: second level players have both the run responsibility and a 326 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 5: pass coverage responsibility, so you're trying to put them in 327 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 5: conflict mental conflict play with their eyes. So under center 328 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 5: play action it takes longer for the offensive play to 329 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 5: show what it is. So therefore the second level defenders 330 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 5: have have to wait longer. Hole. Yeah, they got to 331 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 5: either attack downhill if they think it's a run, or 332 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 5: just stay where they are if they're uncertain. Uh, and 333 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 5: then past they're late to their underneath zone coverage responsibilities. 334 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 4: So I've always even just half a step as anough. 335 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 5: A millimeter of a second. Yea is everything in the NFL, 336 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 5: you know that. 337 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 4: I mean, so people don't realize how important alignment is 338 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 4: down to the snow. Yeah. Yeah. 339 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 5: So anyway, the point I'm making is under center play action, 340 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 5: which you're you're definitely right. I think you're seeing that 341 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 5: more and more, and I think that's one reason for it. 342 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 4: And as you mentioned, no one's reinventing the wheel. This 343 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 4: has happened forever. You're just putting different cons Yeah, that's 344 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 4: the thing. You know, I get that a lot because 345 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 4: when you talk, people think, oh, you know, he said that, Well, nothing, 346 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 4: there's so many different ways to play in the NFL, 347 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 4: and nothing is one hundred percent. You know. 348 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 5: At its core, everything's about probability and tendency. That's why 349 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 5: coaches watch so much, you know, because they they're trying. Look, 350 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 5: I got someone like Kyle Shanahan. Okay, in the Kyle 351 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 5: Shanahan system, the play caller is the star. Kyle's the star. 352 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 5: He's not giving brock Purty, you know, brock Purty's not 353 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 5: coming to the line of scrimmage and trying to figure 354 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 5: things out. He's calling the play and when I talk 355 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 5: to defensive coaches, they say Kyle Shanahan is the best 356 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 5: there is in terms of understanding what the defense is doing. 357 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 5: You know, that's film study. That's why all these guys 358 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 5: do all this stuff. You know, it's that's that's the 359 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 5: bottom line. 360 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 4: It seems like the best defensive minds understand protections as 361 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 4: well as their line coaches. 362 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 5: I mean, you you you saw that in the in 363 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,880 Speaker 5: the Super Bowl where the Seahawks early in the game 364 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 5: first two possessions blitzed. They were not a high percentage 365 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 5: blitz team at all during the season. In fact, they 366 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 5: were near to the bottom. So what did he do? 367 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 5: W came out and when I studied that tape, I mean, 368 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 5: I was in the stands for the game, but I'm 369 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 5: you know, I was just enjoying it as yeah, fan, 370 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 5: I wasn't taking notes. But then when I got back 371 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 5: to my office at Films and was watching it, boy, 372 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 5: on a couple of those bitches, you could see he 373 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 5: just knew what the protection was and he broke down there. 374 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 5: And that's what when you hear the phrase broke down 375 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 5: the protection, what it basically means is is that you 376 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 5: understand based on a defensive front. Look how the offense 377 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 5: will protect that and then you can eat up that 378 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 5: protection and then get someone free, so you know where 379 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 5: they will will protect. 380 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 4: It's similar to cover. Well, there's no perfect wand where 381 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 4: everybody would run right, right right, you know, so every 382 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 4: protection has a weakness, right, every coverage has. 383 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 5: A week Yeah, yeah, running everything theoretically, I mean it 384 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 5: can be attacked and broken down, you know, and it 385 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 5: happens in the NFL. You know, these guys are pretty smart. 386 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they paid a lot of money too. 387 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 5: Yeah. 388 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 4: At the end of the best of the best. 389 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, Greg Cosel kind enough to join us again here 390 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 3: on Radio Row. 391 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 2: Always enjoy hearing from you this week. Fantastic, Thank you 392 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 2: for taking the time. 393 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 5: Oh, no problem, guyslet'll talk to you. 394 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 2: We're gonna get to our first break here. Plenty more 395 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 2: to go. 396 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 3: Our buddy Chris Hallick going to join us here on 397 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 3: Radio Row as well. We are just getting the moving 398 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 3: into shaking going here on the Drive Steelers Nation Radio 399 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 3: on the Steelers Audio Networks