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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. Rewind.

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Speaker 2: This is Rob Lamb and this is Joe McCormick. And

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Speaker 2: Rob and I are out a few days this week,

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Speaker 2: so we are bringing you some episodes from the vault.

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Speaker 2: This episode of Weird House Cinema originally aired on January sixth,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, and it's our episode on David Cronenberg's Scanners.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is a great one. This is like

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Speaker 1: one of the all time great weird movies of the

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Speaker 1: twentieth century.

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Speaker 2: Let's start scanning right now.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Joe McCormick. And today's selection is the nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty one Canadian sci fi horror thriller Scanners, directed by

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Speaker 2: David Cronenberg, a film that I first became aware of

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Speaker 2: because it was much beloved by my dad when I

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Speaker 2: was young. I remember being a little kid, like I think,

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Speaker 2: sort of hearing my dad needle my mom by being like,

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Speaker 2: remember Scanners, And so long before I ever saw it,

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Speaker 2: I knew the one thing that everybody knew about this

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Speaker 2: movie which is that Scanners is a movie in which

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Speaker 2: a guy's head explodes, which means Scanners is a certain

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Speaker 2: type of film, and that type is the film that

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Speaker 2: is apparently widely known for one thing that happens in it,

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Speaker 2: for one particularly shocking, horrifying, or otherwise uniquely salient scene

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Speaker 2: or moment, whereas the rest of the film is much

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Speaker 2: less known. I think this might be like the prime

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Speaker 2: example of that. So, like, if you mentioned Scanners to

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Speaker 2: most people, I think maybe the majority of people will

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Speaker 2: be able to say, like, oh, yeah, and that the

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Speaker 2: movie where a dude's head blows up, but not many

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Speaker 2: people will know anything else about it. I was trying

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Speaker 2: to think of other examples of this, like the kind

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Speaker 2: of movie that is mostly known for like one moment

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Speaker 2: or scene in isolation, and people don't remember that much else.

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Speaker 2: Multiple Ridley Scott movies come to mind. I am generally

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Speaker 2: very intimately familiar with Alien because I've watched a bajillion times,

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Speaker 2: but I think that's sort of one of them. It's

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Speaker 2: a movie where a monster bursts out of a guy's

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Speaker 2: chest at the dinner table, and maybe most people know

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Speaker 2: that but don't know anything else. Rachel suggested another Ridley

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Speaker 2: Scott movie, Thelma and Louise. It is the movie where

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Speaker 2: a car goes over a cliff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I've seen Thelma and Louise, but

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Speaker 1: i've seen that scene, you know, Like that scene has

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Speaker 1: been presented to me. Parodies of that scene have been presented,

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Speaker 1: and therefore I feel like I know Thelma and Louise even.

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Speaker 2: Though I do not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a one that came to mind for me. A

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Speaker 1: more recent example might be Gamo de Torres, The Shape

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Speaker 1: of Water, the movie in which a woman and a

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Speaker 1: fishman make love, albeit I think tastefully an off screen

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Speaker 1: if I'm remembering correctly, or one of those two things.

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Speaker 1: But that's a film where there's a lot more going

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Speaker 1: on there, and I think it's a pretty solid picture.

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Speaker 1: But that was the thing that was showing up in

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Speaker 1: late night monologues and so forth. In other ways, I

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Speaker 1: think you might look at films like Basic Instinct and

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Speaker 1: Bad Lieutenant that can come to mind for other reasons

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Speaker 1: that people would call them out for, Oh, there's this

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Speaker 1: one scene where something happens and in a backwards way

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Speaker 1: to channel another fishman movie. The promotional material for nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty Screamers, which was the US Corman re release of

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Speaker 1: an Italian film Island of the Fishmen, tried to promote

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Speaker 1: itself as the movie in which a man turns inside out,

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Speaker 1: despite no such scene occurring in the motion picture.

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Speaker 2: That's a good idea. I can't think of another example.

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Speaker 2: It'd be like if Scammer Scammers Scanners was known as

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Speaker 2: the movie where Ahead explodes, but it didn't actually happen

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Speaker 2: in the movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that would that would be really really lame. Whereas

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Speaker 1: in reality, I mean, they knew they had a great

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Speaker 1: scene there. I was reading that originally that scene was

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Speaker 1: going to happen first, but given the cinema and movie

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Speaker 1: going culture of the time, they knew it's local people

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Speaker 1: going to come in late. I guess they. But anyone

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Speaker 1: who was watching films at the theater in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: please tell me. I'm assuming there were fewer trailers, because

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Speaker 1: now you've got a solid half hour of trailers. But

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Speaker 1: the concern was at the time, well, people are going

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Speaker 1: to come in late, They're going to miss our key scene.

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Speaker 1: We've got to offset it a bit with some other

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Speaker 1: introductory material.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is a really great scene. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: I grew up hearing about this movie in the terms

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Speaker 2: previously described. I saw it at some point after which

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a cool, creepy thriller. I had,

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Speaker 2: you know, modestly positive feelings about it. I also thought

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Speaker 2: there were a few elements that didn't work so well,

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Speaker 2: and they were some of the same elements that have

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Speaker 2: been criticized by critics, especially when the movie initially came out.

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Speaker 2: But in the intervening years, I think critics who have

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Speaker 2: looked back on Scanners have had a more robustly positive

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Speaker 2: appraisal of it, and I found myself having exactly the

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Speaker 2: same reaction. On my most recent rewatch, I gained a

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Speaker 2: much more unqualified appreciation for it. I think Scanners is

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Speaker 2: just just awesome, and some of the criticisms were the

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Speaker 2: things about it I used to criticize. I now actually

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Speaker 2: think our strengths. This movie is so much more than

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Speaker 2: an exploding head.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And I was also surprised at how well

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Speaker 1: it held up and how much I enjoyed it. In

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Speaker 1: past viewings. I think I had that similar experience where

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, there's a lot of great things

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Speaker 1: going on here, but AB and C don't really work

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Speaker 1: for me all that well. I think for the most part,

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Speaker 1: my criticisms were somewhat dulled in my recent rewatch of

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Speaker 1: the film, So it's going to be fun to get

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Speaker 1: into all that now. You were talking about your dad

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Speaker 1: being a fan of it and talking about the exploding

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Speaker 1: head and all I have to say for my part,

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Speaker 1: before I even knew there was an exploding head scene

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Speaker 1: in this movie, my earliest memories were of the box

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Speaker 1: art at the VHS rentals store and the poster for it,

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Speaker 1: which I think would have also been on the wall

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Speaker 1: of the VHS Renold store, because this alone really freaked

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Speaker 1: me out. Chef Kiss, Yeah, this is the one. You

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Speaker 1: see this in a lot of the current materials for

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Speaker 1: the film. This is the one that shows Michael Ironside's

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Speaker 1: character in just full rending, like straight limbed scanner mode,

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Speaker 1: nearly like a full body representation, just completely scanning out.

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Speaker 1: It's just absolutely terrifying. It represents some it's supposed to

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Speaker 1: represent the way the character looks in the final showdown

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Speaker 1: of the picture, which is an in and of itself,

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Speaker 1: a horrifying sequence. I would say, more horrifying, maybe less shocking,

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Speaker 1: but more horrifying than the head burst scene. This art,

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Speaker 1: I had to look it up. This is apparently poster

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Speaker 1: art by Joe Anne Daley, who credited with some other

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Speaker 1: really awesome VHS era posterrim box art stuff like creep Show, Popcorn, Prison.

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Speaker 1: Prison's one that I never saw, but I remember distinctly

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Speaker 1: this weird like skull prison looking VHS box art.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she did something truly amazing here. So it

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Speaker 2: is representing the scene where like the veins are popping

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Speaker 2: out and all that, But there's also just there's an

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Speaker 2: aura around Michael Ironside and the way that all of

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Speaker 2: the textures of his skin and clothes and his hair

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Speaker 2: or like they're like rising up off of him, as

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Speaker 2: if he's literally sublimating, like his body is so hot

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Speaker 2: it's turning into a gas.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's this it's not even like a subtext

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Speaker 1: to it because the poster art, some of the poster

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Speaker 1: art and the lobby cards that I was pulling up for it,

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Speaker 1: it has the taglines on it like ten seconds the

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Speaker 1: pain begins, fifteen seconds you can't breathe, twenty seconds you explode.

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Speaker 1: It's saying, look at this horrible vision of a man.

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Speaker 1: This could happened to you watch this movie to find

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Speaker 1: out why.

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Speaker 2: That's what happens when you combined pop rocks and PEPSI right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. But at the same time, Yeah, this poster

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Speaker 1: really does capture I think that a lot of the

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Speaker 1: shocking imagery of that final Scanner show down, this vision

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Speaker 1: of psychic power as this thing that kind of channels

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Speaker 1: violently through you and will, if left unchecked, just completely

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Speaker 1: destroy you in the process. Yeah, it reminds me a

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Speaker 1: bit of the nineteen ninety film, which of course came

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Speaker 1: out a decade later, Toby Hooper's Spontaneous Combustion that we

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Speaker 1: talked about on the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I see the similarity, though I have to

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Speaker 2: say I think The Scanners is in a league above

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Speaker 2: Spontaneous Combustion. But yes, I see what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but both films do have a similarity and that

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Speaker 1: they're both films where psychic powers of different types are

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Speaker 1: dangerous to everyone that there. This is this wild, unchecked

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Speaker 1: energy and also has potentially disastrous effects for the end

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Speaker 1: of visual that is experiencing them. Yes, all right, Joe,

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Speaker 1: what's your elevator pitch for this film?

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Speaker 2: All right, Cameron Vail can hear people's thoughts and it

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Speaker 2: makes his life a living hell. He wanders the underground

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Speaker 2: malls of Canada as a miserable outcast, until he meets

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Speaker 2: a mysterious scientist who informs him that he is a

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Speaker 2: Scanner and there are others like him. But instead of

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Speaker 2: a community of brothers and sisters, Cameron discovers a secret war,

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Speaker 2: and now the war has discovered him.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty good. Yeah, that a secret war is key

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Speaker 1: to it, and that's I think one of the things

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Speaker 1: that works so well about this film is there all

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Speaker 1: these different layers of intrigue to it as you proceed

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Speaker 1: through the picture.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would say, actually, the secret war is something

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Speaker 2: that I really noticed on this viewing of it. It

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Speaker 2: really stood out to me as a shared theme between

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Speaker 2: Scanners and one of Uberg's other big movies, Videodrome, because

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Speaker 2: if you think about it, both movies are about a

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Speaker 2: naive protagonist who gets inadvertently swept up into an ongoing

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Speaker 2: secret conflict between at least two existing factions or forces,

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Speaker 2: which I'm not sure why, but that in itself is

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Speaker 2: just like a really exciting, almost intoxicating plot dynamic. It's

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Speaker 2: specifically the thing about the fact that the conflict is

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Speaker 2: ongoing and it's done by these powerful forces, but it's

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Speaker 2: like invisible to all regular people. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: Videodrome and the cathode ray mission are already out there.

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Speaker 2: They're plotting their campaigns against one another. But somehow the

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Speaker 2: war has remained in the shadows, and suddenly the main

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Speaker 2: character is made aware of it and sucked into it

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Speaker 2: and is being played by one side against the other.

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Speaker 2: And in the case of Scanners, the secret war is

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Speaker 2: between an amoral arms manufacturer or arms manufacturing and security firm.

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Speaker 2: That's concept. And then on the other hand, you have

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Speaker 2: this murderous front of the Scanner underground.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love how the players in this game

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Speaker 1: in the secret warview will they're not nation states, they're

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Speaker 1: not governmental agencies. There corporations and social movements and and

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Speaker 1: and rogue organizations that again are just kind of all

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Speaker 1: in the not even all in the underworld, like some

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Speaker 1: of it is in a corporate boardroom, you know, that

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Speaker 1: kind of setting. And I guess, I guess that does

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Speaker 1: kind of match up with some overarching themes that you

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Speaker 1: see in media from the eighties. You see it in cyberpunk,

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Speaker 1: you see it in various other pictures where it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're in this this this realm, where it's it's corporations

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Speaker 1: against corporation and and these other entities. I think Cronenberg

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Speaker 1: and also William Gibson are both have both proven themselves

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Speaker 1: with leears really good at also integrating these uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: the social movements, artists and other things into these weird

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Speaker 1: views of the future and of course of the present. Now.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned one of the taglines for the picture, actual

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Speaker 1: taglines for the picture earlier, but here are just a

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Speaker 1: few more. There's, of course, their thoughts can kill. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of what the pictures about. Also, there are four

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Speaker 1: billion people on Earth two hundred and thirty seven or scanners.

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Speaker 1: I like that. That's kind of cherry picked from the screenplay. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's referring to a part in the film. They're kind

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Speaker 1: of bending it a little bit, but it gives it

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Speaker 1: that kind of provocative feeling that that works well with

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Speaker 1: a tagline. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's actually accurate to the script,

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Speaker 2: because I think the number is two hundred and thirty

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Speaker 2: six and that comes from the list of known scanners,

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Speaker 2: the ones that are known to consect. But there are

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Speaker 2: other ones that are not known to them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And also it's not just like this is the

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Speaker 1: percentage of the human population that are just going to

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Speaker 1: be scanners. We find out why there are scanners in

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Speaker 1: the picture. But the one that really stood out to

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Speaker 1: me this time is you were about to experience the

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Speaker 1: outer reaches of future Shock, and that of course that

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Speaker 1: tagline is obviously invoking the nineteen seventy Toffler book Future Shock,

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Speaker 1: and it's one that I hadn't run across before regarding

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Speaker 1: this picture, But it really got me thinking about this

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Speaker 1: film in a different light because Future Shock just remind everyone,

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Speaker 1: and it was this concept that essentially you were dealing with,

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Speaker 1: or would be dealing with, a kind of trauma brought

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Speaker 1: on by rapid advances and technology that would outstrip our

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Speaker 1: ability to understand them or change with them. So don't

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Speaker 1: think of it necessarily as some sort of like a

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Speaker 1: movie future shock like a technology is advancing too quickly,

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Speaker 1: and it made my head explode, but more of a

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Speaker 1: of a like a cultural malaise even but I wonder

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Speaker 1: if the scanner, the individual that is a scanner in

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Speaker 1: this picture is in some ways kind of a physical

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Speaker 1: embodiment of this idea of future shock. They're changed, they're

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Speaker 1: potentially dehumanized in the process of this change, and they

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Speaker 1: run the risk of being less than them so and

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Speaker 1: more of a conduit. In the film, by doing nothing,

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Speaker 1: one man is almost reduced to a kind of zombie state,

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Speaker 1: another becomes a monster, and two other characters we meet

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Speaker 1: are able to channe all this change into creation and community.

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Speaker 1: But it's like they're all dealing with it in different ways.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, I think about one reaction

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Speaker 2: to if you take the concept of future shocks seriously,

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Speaker 2: I think one of the most common reactions to it

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Speaker 2: actually is a kind of disengagement or listlessness that comes

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Speaker 2: from the fact that, like, if you can't understand the

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Speaker 2: forces that are driving the world, it just kind of

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Speaker 2: makes it feel like it's pointless to try to do

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Speaker 2: anything or change anything because you don't understand how the

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Speaker 2: machine works, so you know, why would you even try

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Speaker 2: to mess with it? And I see similar themes running

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Speaker 2: around in scanners, like the idea that your agency can

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Speaker 2: be removed when there are forces governing your life that

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Speaker 2: you don't understand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, all right, let's go ahead and hear some

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Speaker 1: trailer audio for this one. In this case, we're drawing

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Speaker 1: on the actual radio spot, which is a lot of

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Speaker 1: fun because everything is audio. This is the audio as

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Speaker 1: it's intended. You were not supposed to glimpse an exploding

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Speaker 1: head in this trailer.

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Speaker 4: Ten seconds the pain begins, and your flesh and your brain.

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Speaker 4: Fifteen seconds you can't breathe, It chokes you, it destroys you.

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Speaker 4: Twenty seconds you explode. Experience the terrifying power of scanners.

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Speaker 4: Their thoughts can kill. Rated R restricted under seventeen might

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Speaker 4: admit about parn.

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Speaker 1: I like this radio trailer too, because it again a

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Speaker 1: very sonic experience that I think delivers on some of

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Speaker 1: the just the excellent music and sound effects in this

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Speaker 1: picture that help bring about this weird, creepy, psychic feeling.

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Speaker 2: The movie not only has good music, but I would

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Speaker 2: say the sound design is really important in oh, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, moments that feel less like music but more

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Speaker 2: just kind of like the pulses and throbbing and drone

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Speaker 2: sounds that occur when the scanning session is taking place.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely now, before we get into the plot, just if

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Speaker 1: you're wondering, well, where can I watch scanners? Well, It's

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Speaker 1: widely available. You can strain this one, purchase it, or

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Speaker 1: rent it very many places, including as part of the

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Speaker 1: Criterion collection. This one's the one's cemented in the collection,

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Speaker 1: alongside the likes of Fiend Without a Face.

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Speaker 2: Ah, that's wonderful. I like when a film that was

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Speaker 2: initially regarded by reviewers as trash or as just you know,

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Speaker 2: some scummy bit of garbage it gets the Criterion stamp

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Speaker 2: of approval.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, because you look back on writings about Cronenberg

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Speaker 1: during this time period and a lot of times that

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Speaker 1: he's treated with a sense of danger. This is a

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Speaker 1: dangerous weirdo they're letting make films and do we dare

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Speaker 1: watch it ourselves? And to a large extent, I feel

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Speaker 1: like we're past that, Like we've seen this full career

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Speaker 1: by Cronenberg, a career that's still ongoing, and we have

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Speaker 1: a more complete understanding of what his sensibilities are and

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Speaker 1: yet many of them are weird. But I guess there's

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Speaker 1: less of a feeling of this is a dangerous man

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Speaker 1: making dangerous films, and yet in Rewatching Scanners, I could

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Speaker 1: definitely feel some of that, especially in the final showdown

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Speaker 1: between our main Scanner characters. There was an unhinged, unsafe

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Speaker 1: energy to it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I love his films by and large, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to maintain that illusion of absolute danger after

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Speaker 2: you've seen his scene in Jason X for one, and

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Speaker 2: after you've seen his hair.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's a marvelous head of hair. All right, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about him a little more in depth. Yeah. David Cronenberg,

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Speaker 1: the director and writer the picture, born nineteen forty three

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Speaker 1: as of this recording, very much still alive and still

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Speaker 1: making films, Thank goodness. Yeah, what can you say? Legendary

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Speaker 1: Canadian master of the weird, profit of the New Flesh.

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Speaker 1: His first full length film was nineteen sixty nine Stereo,

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Speaker 1: and from there he went on to direct nineteen seventies

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Speaker 1: Crimes of the Future and a whole string of TV projects,

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Speaker 1: before returning to the weird with nineteen seventy five Shivers,

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Speaker 1: followed by nineteen seventy seven's Rabid and also the normy

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine racing movie Fast Company. That's one I

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Speaker 1: was actually at tempted to do on the show here

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Speaker 1: because we've been kind of building up to actually doing

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Speaker 1: a David Cronenberg film on a podcast series about weird films.

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Speaker 1: It seems like it shouldn't have taken us two years

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Speaker 1: to get here, but we had to pick the right one.

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Speaker 1: And for a little bit there, I was thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: we almost can't pick a regular Cronenberg film. We should

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Speaker 1: just do Fast Company.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of I mean, like, I think

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Speaker 2: we ten to toward movies that are a little bit

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Speaker 2: like funnier or more fun to discuss, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of Kronenberg movies are are really fascinating, but they're also

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Speaker 2: like really downers. They're like really bummers in one way

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Speaker 2: or another. I think Scanners is not quite that. So

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Speaker 2: it's on it's on the lighter side of even as

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Speaker 2: dark as it is, it's on the lighter side of

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Speaker 2: the Kronenberg spectrum.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you would. I don't think you would ever described

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Speaker 1: Scanners as fun, but compared to the larger filmography of Kronenberg, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's on the fun end of the spectrum. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: After Fast Company, that's when he did a trio of

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Speaker 1: films that kind of, I feel like, kind of set

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Speaker 1: the tone for Cronenberg weirdness, The Brood, Scanners and Videodrome

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Speaker 1: all three of those between nineteen seventy nine and nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty three. He followed these up with nineteen eighty three

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Speaker 1: Stephen King adaptation The Dead Zone. He did one episode

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Speaker 1: of Friday the Thirteenth, the series, nineteen eighty eight s

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Speaker 1: Dead Ringers, nineteen ninety one's Naked Lunch, ninety threes, m Butterfly,

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine's Exhuits Distance, two thousand and two Spider,

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Speaker 1: And from here he drifted more into I guess serious

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Speaker 1: crime drama, violent crime drama for a spell there with

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five's A History of Violence in Eastern Promises.

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Speaker 1: Then he did A Dangerous Method and then Cosmopolis. But

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Speaker 1: at this point, oh, there's also a what a Map

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Speaker 1: of the Stars I think is in there as well.

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Speaker 1: But now he's back to his roots. He's returned to

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Speaker 1: his roots with twenty twenty two's Crimes of the Future,

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Speaker 1: which I'm doing to understand has no actual connection to

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seventy film Crimes of the Future beyond the title.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, he's back working on weird films again. I

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Speaker 1: mean not I guess they're all weird films, but certainly

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Speaker 1: weird speculative films, and I believe his upcoming picture is

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Speaker 1: going to be about Communion with the Dead.

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Speaker 2: M okay, which was I've never seen it, but as

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Speaker 2: Existends the one that I've heard described as just a

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Speaker 2: remake of Videodrome but with video games instead of TV.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a pretty fair statement.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, probably in twenty years, but I

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Speaker 1: remember it having that kind of like, you know, creepy

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Speaker 1: New Flesh vibe but with game cartridges and weird flesh

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Speaker 1: guns and so forth.

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Speaker 2: I just bring that up because it's the video games

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Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety nine, which I think has got to

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Speaker 2: be like the funniest era of games ever, like the

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Speaker 2: Nintendo sixty four PlayStation one kind of era, like those

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Speaker 2: early three D games that if you look at any

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Speaker 2: game from that era now, chances are it's going to

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Speaker 2: be hilarious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you had a Cronenberg sixty four, now that

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Speaker 1: that was a console, you took your cartridge and you

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Speaker 1: just I shouldn't explain how it all worked anyway. Scanners

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Speaker 1: is based on a couple of different psychic scripts that

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Speaker 1: he apparently had gone in the late seventies. The Sensitives

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Speaker 1: and Telepathy two thousand. These were apparently both films he

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Speaker 1: was going to pitch to Roger Corman and this whole thing, though,

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Speaker 1: was rushed into production to take advantage of Canadian tax

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Speaker 1: subsidies at the time, so he was apparently writing scenes

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Speaker 1: for Scanners, oftentimes the morning before they would film later

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Speaker 1: in the day, so it made for a rather demanding

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Speaker 1: production overall. I think there may have also been some issues,

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Speaker 1: as some conflict between some of the cast members, if

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Speaker 1: I'm to understand correctly. So I don't think it's necessary

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Speaker 1: a film that Kronenberg himself looks back on as being like,

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Speaker 1: you know, this great experience and maybe, I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you're considering it being a film that was rushed, maybe

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Speaker 1: you can see some of the rush in the resulting picture.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know, it's still pretty solid.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, I mean I would say that

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Speaker 2: the writing is actually quite good.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, there's maybe one speculative leap that

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Speaker 1: doesn't work so well, but we'll.

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Speaker 2: Get to them. I know exactly what you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: We'll get there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But yeah, this film certainly made its mark, and

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Speaker 1: not everyone understood it at the time. Some of the

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Speaker 1: critics didn't get it, but it earned its place in

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Speaker 1: cinematic history, certainly developed occult following and garnered what four

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Speaker 1: sequels over the years, I think two proper Scanner sequels

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Speaker 1: and then also two Scanner Cop films.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I've seen all the sequels, and I

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Speaker 2: don't really remember much about them, except that I think

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Speaker 2: we had a really fun time watching a probably the

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Speaker 2: second Scanner cop movie with like check dubbing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. They and they keep, they keep threatening to remake Scanners,

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Speaker 1: either either as a movie or a TV series, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's never come together for one reason or another.

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Speaker 1: I think at one point directors said they would do

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Speaker 1: it if Cronenberg said it was all right, and Cronenberg

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Speaker 1: said nuh, and so it didn't happen. They didn't give

432
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 1: it his blessing. So I don't know. It's one of those,

433
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: like a lot of these things, Like, yes, if it

434
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: had to be remade, I could imagine somebody could do

435
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: it correctly and in a way that would would be

436
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,239
Speaker 1: a cool and insightful exploration of the world that is

437
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: created in the original picture. But on the other hand,

438
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: we don't really need it because the film works exceedingly

439
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: well on its own.

440
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: Agreed. Now, I do want to mention one more thing

441
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: about Cronenberg before we move on from him, which is

442
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 2: recurring themes of Cronenberg movies. Of course, Cronenberg makes a

443
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 2: lot of movies in the horror genre, and unlike the

444
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: most common horror movie threat of straightforward danger to your life, right,

445
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: that's what most movie monsters or bad guys, they're threatening

446
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: you with physical violence of some kind. The most common

447
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: threat in Cronenberg movies, I would say, is not direct

448
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: threats to your life, but threats to your self identity.

449
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 2: He makes movies most often that are about a loss

450
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 2: of the boundaries of the self or a change of

451
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 2: the self into something monstrous, and a lot of these

452
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: have a very kind of like squishy tactile quality to them,

453
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 2: Like his movies are known for body horror, where there's

454
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: some kind of disgusting change happening to your body and

455
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 2: you are becoming something alien. In the case of Scanners,

456
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: I would say, the broader theme does hold, but it's

457
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: less about the body and more a type of mental

458
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: identity horror, like there are threats to the integrity of

459
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 2: the mind or the soul.

460
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's it's not just uh oh, my Torso

461
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: is now a VHS player, it's that added level of

462
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: what does it mean that I am now a physical

463
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: receptor for media? That sort of thing, like, yeah, it's

464
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: it's always a more more thoughtful and intellectual exercise, but

465
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: always weird. I do want to try some It's easy

466
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: with someone like Cronenberg to get really you know, you

467
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: start talking or thinking about it too much and they're like, yeah, man,

468
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: it's just this is a metaphor for the way that

469
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: we think about ourselves and media. Like, yes, all of

470
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: that is true, but also it's just really weird too.

471
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 2: Yes, undeniable. I mean. The other thing is like I

472
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 2: didn't really mention this so much because it's hard to

473
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: describe exactly what it is. But all of Cronenberg's movies

474
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: that I've seen have in common this creepy, uneasy Canadian vibe.

475
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 2: There's just something that's an energy that all of them

476
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 2: share that is difficult to put into words. It's sort

477
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 2: of a type of coldness, a kind of observing of

478
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: human human reaction with a bit of a distance that

479
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 2: makes it a little more alien and a little more

480
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: dangerous and a little more removed from mundane reality.

481
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would agree, but it is hard to

482
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: really nail down exactly what it is at times. All Right,

483
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: getting into the cast here, and I have to mention

484
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 1: one of the things I always love about Cronenberg films.

485
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: The character names are always really interesting. And our first

486
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: character here is the character Cameron Veil, but the actor

487
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: who plays Cameron Veil our main protagonist here. Also his

488
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: real name also sounds like a Cronenberg movie name, Stephen Lack,

489
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: So I might end up getting mixed up and referring

490
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: to the character as Stephen Lack or to the actress

491
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: Cameron Veil, because they both kind of come together.

492
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 2: For me here, I will deduct no points.

493
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: So Stephen Lack was born nineteen forty six Canadian actor,

494
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: active from the mid nineteen seventies through around two thousand

495
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: and two. This is probably his biggest role, though he

496
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: also pops up in a small role in Cronenberg's Dead Ringers.

497
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: He also wrote and starred in nineteen seventy seven's The

498
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: Rubber Gun, directed by Alan Moyle, and another couple of

499
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: films of note, in nineteen eighty's head On in nineteen

500
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: eighty four's Perfect Strangers. Perfect Strangers being a Larry Cohen erotic.

501
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: Thriller, I had no idea there was such a thing.

502
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: If it could put butts seats, than Larry Cohen probably

503
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: wrote it at least wrote a screenplay for it.

504
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: Perfect. So, regarding Stephen Lack and the character Cameron Vale,

505
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 2: this is one place where I want to fully criticize

506
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: and rebuke my own previous opinion about Scanners. I remember

507
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: thinking in the past that a weak point in this

508
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 2: movie was that the protagonist is sort of a cipher.

509
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: He lacks defining individual characteristics and often seems to be

510
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: operating without a sense of personal agency, you know, like

511
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: you often don't quite know why he's doing what he's doing.

512
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: He's just sort of been launched into an action by

513
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: the people around him, and he just follows through. Now,

514
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: upon reviewing, I still think this assessment of the character

515
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 2: is true, but I actually don't think it's a shortcoming

516
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: of the movie at all. I think it is literally

517
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: the point of the character. There are multiple scenes exploring

518
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: the effects of telepithy on the development of personality. This

519
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: character is a is a scanner. He's a telepathic character,

520
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: and the movie posits that if a person has the

521
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 2: ability to read other people's thoughts and they have no

522
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: power to control this ability or turn it off at will,

523
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: it essentially prevents them from developing a personality or from

524
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: having individual thoughts. So in the world of Scanners, the

525
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 2: sort of lost, wandering, untreated Scanner's mind is like living

526
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: in a world where every single person in your vicinity

527
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: is constantly, just incessantly screaming at you with a megaphone.

528
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: And in such a world would you ever be able

529
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: to develop a voice of your own. So I think

530
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,479
Speaker 2: the fact that Cameron Veil is sort of like an

531
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: adult with the mind of a newborn, launched on missions

532
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: he doesn't understand following through with them for reasons that

533
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: don't quite seem clear. You know, the things are going

534
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: on without his agency, and he's just sort of like

535
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: going along with the flow. It makes complete sense in

536
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: my opinion. The arc of the movie is the character

537
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: going from this state of undifferentiated mental cacophony and lack

538
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: of agentic control over his own missions and behavior to

539
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: the point of having a mind and purpose of his own.

540
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: I completely agree. Yeah, this is a performance that I

541
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: think in the past I saw as a weak point

542
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: I saw. I think I focus too much on the

543
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: similarities between this performance this character and poor performances are

544
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: poorly defined characters in various other B movies. But yeah,

545
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: I think it totally works within the context of the

546
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: film here for all the reasons you point out. And

547
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: also I have to to say, like, there are a

548
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: lot of movies that feature what I think of is

549
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: doll men or baby men, where you have some sort

550
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: of reason for a person being like this, like maybe

551
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: they're a clone, or they're an alien and human form

552
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: from another world, and sometimes it just plays completely stupid

553
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: on the screen and you just feel like you're watching

554
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: a farce. But Veil doesn't really fall into this category,

555
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: at least for me. Like he's still molded by the world.

556
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: He's not a complete babe in the woods, at least

557
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: in many respects. We see him, with help become far

558
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: more functional, so that there seem to be plenty of

559
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: things about him that are unmolded. Of course, he's never

560
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: developed a personality. His inner thoughts have just been the

561
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: default networks and inner thoughts of those around him rather

562
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: than his own, so he is he's almost like this robot.

563
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: But in a way that I don't know. Cronenberg is

564
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: able to strike the right balance here, and of course

565
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: credit to Lack too.

566
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: No, I know exactly what you're saying, Like he's the

567
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: He's not the sort of pure doll man kind of

568
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: creature you're talking about. This is a character who has

569
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: faced a lifetime full of experience and hardship. So he's

570
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: not without experience. He's had tons of experience, he's had

571
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: tons of struggle, but he just hasn't really had a

572
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: self throughout all of it.

573
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And also it's never played up for comic

574
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: relief either. Yeah yeah, he's never like, what is love

575
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: doctor or anything like that, ignoring also the fact that

576
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: it's doctor Ruth. But we'll get to doctor Ruth.

577
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 2: In a bit.

578
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: One more point on Stephen Lack, though, I have to say,

579
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: great eyes on this actor. He has these just wonderful

580
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: wide eyes that are just brimming with childlike innocence, but

581
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: also the sense of absorption, that childlike absorption, like everything

582
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: is being taken in by these wide eyes.

583
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so I disagree with my former self. Thumbs

584
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: up to the character and thumbs up to the performance

585
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: by Lack.

586
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: All Right, that was our chief protagonist. Our chief antagonist

587
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: is Darryl Revick, played by the wonderful Michael Ironside.

588
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: I would argue Michael Ironside is in the running for

589
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: best film Heavies of all time. He emits fumes of menace.

590
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: And it's not just his physical presence. I mean he

591
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: does have a great villain or hinchman. Look, he's a

592
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: great actor, and every line reading in this movie is

593
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 2: like the tip of a box cutter being extended. It's

594
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: just perfect, superb villainy.

595
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an intense performance that absolutely works with his character,

596
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: who is again, this is a Scanner character, much like

597
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: several different Scanner characters. But he is an extreme individual,

598
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: so you need an extreme performance powering it. That's not

599
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: to say that it's just always cranked up to ten.

600
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: There are also plenty of scenes where it's a much

601
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: more subtle performance. But when Ironside needs to crank it up,

602
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: he can crank it up.

603
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: Like few others. I'll suck your mind dry.

604
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: Ironside was born in nineteen fifty Canadian character actor who's

605
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: played just so many fantastic heavies and authority figures and

606
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: mania over the years. His work goes all the way

607
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: back to the mid seventies, but the Scanner seems to

608
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 1: have helped propel him into larger villain roles. He followed

609
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: this one up with nineteen eighty one Surfacing, nineteen eighty

610
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: two's Visiting Hours, and the fun sci fi romp Space

611
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: Hunter Adventures in the Forbidden Zone, in which he plays

612
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: an evil, snarling cyborg opposite Peter Strauss, Molly Ringwald and

613
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: Ernie Hudson.

614
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: WHOA, yeah, it's a fun one.

615
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: We made.

616
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: That.

617
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: One's kind of on in my back pocket for some

618
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: time when we're not sure what picture to view.

619
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: For weird House. It sounds wonderful.

620
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: He did a lot of TV work smaller pictures after that,

621
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,959
Speaker 1: but in the mid eighties he appeared in Top Gun.

622
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: He was in nineteen eighty eight Watchers, the adaptation of

623
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: the Dean Coot's novel with the Talking Dog.

624
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 2: He's in Highlander too, The Quickening. We can't forget that.

625
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, and he's Richter in nineteen ninety's Total Recall.

626
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,959
Speaker 1: Gray's heavy role in that so good. And yeah, he's

627
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: just continued to keep the tap flowing with villain in

628
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: heavy row like this is an actor who has worked

629
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: a lot and continues to work a lot. Two hundred

630
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: and seventy one credits on IMDb as of right now.

631
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: See he's done a lot of TV tales in the

632
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: crypt the nineties Outer Limits Canada's Danger Bay that I

633
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: watched as a kid, And there's also a film by

634
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: the name of Neon City from nineteen ninety one that

635
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: I have not seen, but I know has been recommended

636
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: to us by viewers rather listeners. You're not viewing those,

637
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: you're listening to it, all right. Another Scanner character in

638
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: the picture is Kim Obrist. It's another nice Cronenberg character

639
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: name played by Jennifer O'Neill born nineteen forty eight.

640
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 2: I'd say another great performance. Jennifer O'Neil is excellent in

641
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 2: this role and her character is a very interesting one

642
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: in contraposition to the other sort of powers in the movie.

643
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: This character emerges essentially when Cameron Vale discovers a third faction.

644
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: So you got the powers of Concept, the Evil Corporation

645
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: and reVC Scanner Army, and they're going at it against

646
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: each other, and of course Revic wants to control Scanners

647
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 2: as like an army to sort of dominate the weaker

648
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 2: non Scanner human beings consect wants to control an individual

649
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: Scanner's power to use them as a weapon for the

650
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: highest bidder, and these are portrayed as potential like lone

651
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: wolf psychic assassins. And in contrast to the sort of

652
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: like individual will to power of these other two factions

653
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 2: going at each other, kim Oprist seems to be starting

654
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: what looks almost like a Scanner religion or something where

655
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 2: one where the Scanners deliberately sort of reject individuality and

656
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 2: commune with one another, and they host rituals where they

657
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 2: fully inhabit one another's minds. In these group circle rituals,

658
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: they even form a sort of like a shared collective

659
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: consciousness and they're there's a haunting scene where they're doing this.

660
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: They're fully mind melding in a circle. They keep talking

661
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: about like, you know, lose yourself, it is power, you

662
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 2: know what do they say? Like it is terrifying, it

663
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 2: is beautiful or something, And then Revick's assassins bust in

664
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: and start shooting them and some of them are killed

665
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: and in the escape after the scene, Jennifer O'Neil's character

666
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 2: turns to Cameron and says, now, I know what it

667
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: feels like to die.

668
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great performance, and I do love as

669
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: well how this is is presented. It's this sort of

670
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: third option in the scanner change that's occurring in the world,

671
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: Like what if we didn't approach this as a as

672
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 1: a method of violence, or what if we didn't approach

673
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: this as like a security threat but an opportunity as

674
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: a way of coming together.

675
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: But I do think that's the case. But also I

676
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: like that Kim Oberst's community is not presented as just

677
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 2: purely wholly like good and wholesome, Like there's something kind

678
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: of freaky about their you know, the scene where they're

679
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: all communing with each like they are clearly being entranced

680
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 2: by something, some other level of consciousness they're achieving by

681
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 2: linking their minds together in that way. And while they're

682
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: not they don't have overtly violent intentions that we see

683
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 2: in the movie. There's a sense of like, we don't

684
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: know what this is becoming. This could just could be

685
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 2: some other thing that could be great or could be awful.

686
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's potential dangerous opportunity here, and we get a

687
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: sense of that too when they kind of fight back

688
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: and catch the assassin's on fire. Like there's a sense,

689
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: or at least the sense I got from it, was

690
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: that this was not an individual movement, but this was

691
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: maybe like a reflex of the collective consciousness that they

692
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: were summoning between their collective minds. Yes, and the performance

693
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: is pretty solid too. Yeah. This Jennifer O'Neil Brazilian born

694
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,959
Speaker 1: actor and former model who had quite an acting career

695
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 1: in the sixties and seventies. Especially. She was in Howard

696
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: Hawk's last film, Real Lobo in nineteen seventy. She worked

697
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: with such directors as Robert Mulligan, Auto Primager Edwards, and

698
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: Jay Lee Thompson, and she was the titular character in

699
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: Luccio Fulci's The Psychic from nineteen seventy seven.

700
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 2: Oh. Interesting, a little bit of overlap there.

701
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I don't know if they were like, we

702
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: need a psychic for this picture, and they're like, well,

703
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: I just saw this great Italian movie. Well let's get

704
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 1: Jenmfifer O'Neil. All right, we've mentioned the scientist that leads

705
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: our protagonist into well, it gives him a sense of

706
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: himself back, but also then gives him a spy mission.

707
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: This is doctor Paul Ruth. So yes, the character is

708
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: Doctor Ruth played by Patrick McGowan who lived nineteen twenty

709
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: eight through two thousand and nine.

710
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: Another great performance. I mean again, the cast is just

711
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: great all around. I think McGowan always brings kind of

712
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 2: interesting and unexpected take to his roles. I think one

713
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: great example of this, which is a movie that I

714
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 2: overall do not like. I am not a fan of

715
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: Mel Gibson's Brave Heart for multiple reasons, but I have

716
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 2: always found McGoo win's acting choices as the villain in

717
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,720
Speaker 2: that movie he's played. He plays King Abard the first

718
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: you know, the long shanks, uh. He plays him as

719
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 2: this absurdly psychotic villain, but in a really irresistible kind

720
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 2: of way, chewing the scenery but with this odd, bemused,

721
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 2: high pitched voice.

722
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And in this picture as the as the

723
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: Doctor Paul Ruth, he has this kind of there's the

724
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: kind of shiftiness to him, you know, like we often

725
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: see him looking away or looking down at the floor,

726
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: not making eye contact with the with the characters that

727
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: he's interacting with. That it creates an interesting energy. It's

728
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: We've seen similar characters of this type and plenty of

729
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: other films, you know, the he's sort of in the

730
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: Mad Scientist mold. He's also in this kind of you know,

731
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: teacher and savior mode, or it seems to be for

732
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: a large portion of the film. But but he has

733
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: a he has a different energy.

734
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 2: I love the moral ambiguity of this character. Like is

735
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 2: this character a good guy or a bad guy? I

736
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: mean he's clearly some of both, and not just transitioning

737
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 2: from one to the other, like he's both in an

738
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 2: ongoing capacity.

739
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Magowan, I don't know. He might have been

740
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: the biggest name in the film at the time, and

741
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 1: maybe even so in retrospect. An American born Irish actor,

742
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: probably best remembered as the Prisoner on the late sixties

743
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: TV show, but he was also in a successful Danger

744
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 1: Man from the early sixties. He was in seventy nine's

745
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: Escape from Alcatraz, ninety five's Brave Heart, ninety six is

746
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: a Time to Kill, and one of his final credits

747
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: was a voice actor in two thousand and two's Treasure Planet.

748
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 2: I've never seen Danger Man, but that's a funny name.

749
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, early sixties spy TV show. I think

750
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: I may have watched an episode of it back in

751
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: the day.

752
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 2: Do they have gadgets?

753
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if this was gadget era. You know,

754
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: this might have been too soon, But then the prisoner

755
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: certainly leaves an impression that suitably weird late sixties show

756
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: that some of the other bit players are also pretty fun.

757
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: Robert Silverman plays Benjamin Pierce, a sculptor, a scanner sculptor

758
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: that we meet in the film Born nineteen forty three.

759
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: Kind of a weird Canadian character actor whose work lines

760
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: up with a couple of folks already mentioned, especially Cronenberg.

761
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: He pops up in Rabid the Brood, Friday the Thirteenth,

762
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: the series Naked Lunch Existence, and Jason X, which of

763
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: course Cronenberg did not direct, but Cronenberg acts in as

764
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: one of the mad scientists that initially resurrects Jason Vorhees.

765
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 2: I think he gets like a spear thrown through his torso.

766
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. Robert Silverman's also in head On, which we referenced earlier,

767
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 1: and he's in ninety five's water World.

768
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 2: Oh don't remember him in that, but he's great in this.

769
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: He's good in his Cronenberg roles in I think in

770
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 2: both of his Cronenberg movies that I've seen. He plays

771
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: like a character who had some kind of bad interaction

772
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 2: with the villain that the protagonist is seeking out, and

773
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 2: the protagonist tests to track him down.

774
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 1: Yeah s, yeah, we also have a villain by the

775
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: name of Braden Keller. This is a This is like

776
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: a Hinchman character played by Lawrence Dane, who lived nineteen

777
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: thirty seven through two thousand and two. Canadian character actor

778
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: who is in a ton of things including Happy Birthday

779
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: to Me from nineteen eighty one, Heavenly Bodies from nineteen

780
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: eighty four, Bride of Chucky from ninety eight, Head On

781
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: dart Man two, and much more. He did a lot

782
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: of TV work in the sixties and seventies, and being

783
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: a Canadian actor, of course, he was on nineties Outer Limits.

784
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: He also pops up on Danger Bay and a show

785
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 1: called Seeing Things that I'll describe it just a second.

786
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 2: He's a good villain. He's sort of a suit villain

787
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 2: as opposed to whatever Michael Ironside is. I would say

788
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 2: if Michael Ironside's character is the Clearance Bodicker of this movie,

789
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: Lawrence Dane plays the Dick Jones of the movie.

790
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Ironside his anti establishmenter, so it seems, and

791
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: Dane is establishment for sure. There is a character that

792
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: is just credited as First Scanner. This is the kind

793
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 1: of frank oz looking guy whose head explodes in that

794
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: famous scene from Scanners. This character is played by Louis

795
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: del Grande born nineteen forty three. And I think I've

796
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: mentioned del Grande on the show before due to his

797
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: various connections, but Canadian actor who is mostly known to

798
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: me that I saw him well before I saw Scanners,

799
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: because he was on a series on CBC titled Seeing

800
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: Things that ran from nineteen eighty one through nineteen eighty seven,

801
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: and I think he was also one of the creators

802
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: of the show. But it's kind of a lighthearted psychic

803
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: detective show where he he's always having visions, he's seeing

804
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: things with his psychic abilities, and in doing so, he

805
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: helps to solve the crime in the episode of the week.

806
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: I would watch that. I like his vibe. He's only

807
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 2: got a very short scene in the movie, but he's

808
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: quite memorable in it, and not just for what happens

809
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 2: to a plaster cast of his head.

810
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, he gets to address the audience and yeah, yeah,

811
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: It's a nice little performance, bit part, but very memorable.

812
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: He's done a lot of work over the years, especially

813
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: in Canada. I do. Credits include Happy Birthday to Me

814
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: of unknown origin from nineteen eighty three, the nineties Outer Limits,

815
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: Goosebumps and Les, and a couple of behind the scenes

816
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: credits here. Howard Shore did the score for this movie.

817
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: So score by Shore born nineteen forty six. Howard Shores,

818
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: of course a Canadian composer and conductor who's worked extensively

819
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: in film. He's probably best known for his work on

820
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: the Lord of the Rings movies for Peter Jackson. He

821
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: won an Oscar for at least one of those, and

822
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: he's also scored all but one of Cronenberg's films since

823
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine. I believe The Dead Zone is the

824
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 1: exception in that list. Not only did he write the

825
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: score to Cronenberg's The Fly, but he also wrote an

826
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 1: opera based on the film in two thousand and eight.

827
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: But wow, that's something.

828
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never seen it, but I remember seeing stills

829
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: from it when this was first making the news, and

830
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, this looks amazing. This is the

831
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: opera for me?

832
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 2: Would it be the gooeyest opera ever. I don't know. Actually,

833
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 2: some classic operas get quite bloody.

834
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you can't have people slipping in the slime,

835
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: so there's only so much you can It looks like

836
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: they had a pretty cool functional brundle fly costume for it,

837
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: because you get into unique challenges for a stage performance

838
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: like that. Anyway, as far as Howard Shore's score for

839
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: Scanners goes, I really liked it. I listened to it

840
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: in isolation prior to rewatching the film, and it has

841
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: this kind of boisterous main theme that kind of sounds

842
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: like Hall of the Mountain King. But in general it

843
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: has a lot of these sort of creepy, kind of

844
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: late seventies early eighties vibes that I guess are also

845
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,919
Speaker 1: this is probably Cronenberg energy as well, since you can't

846
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: really divorce Kroneberg's films from shores music all that much.

847
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: But outside of the more traditional sounding stretches the score,

848
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: there's a lot of weird electronic warbly bits and drone

849
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: stretches that I absolutely love so and also some percussive

850
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: chaotic segments as well.

851
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 2: Even a lot of the traditional instrumentation sounds unusual, like

852
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 2: there are these moments of just sort of descending dissonant horns.

853
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so it's really good stuff. This is definitely

854
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: this is a score that's worth listening to as an

855
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: album in my opinion. And before we move on, yeah,

856
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and just hear a sample from the score.

857
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: This is just a taste of main title and public scan.

858
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: And finally, Dick Smith has credits on this film. Special

859
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: makeup effects consultant Dick Smith lived nineteen twenty two through

860
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. Just one of many special effects pros on

861
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: the motion picture, but he's often singled out as playing

862
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: a key role in the opening head explosion, well it's

863
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: not opening, but you know, early head explosion in the film,

864
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 1: and the final showdown. He's a special effects makeup legend

865
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: who worked on such pictures as The Godfather, The Exorcist,

866
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: Taxi Driver, and Death Becomes Her. He won an Oscar

867
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: for his work on Amadeus. Other notable films include Altered States,

868
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 1: seventy two episodes of the TV horror anthology Monsters, Tales

869
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: from the Dark Side, The Movie Starman, Oh, and This

870
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: One's Pretty Fun. Nineteen fifty seven's The alligator people.

871
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 2: Ah, well, I hear the dogs choke on their barking

872
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 2: when they see alligator persons in the bog and fog.

873
00:48:52,840 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, the very same. All right, well, let's get into

874
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: the plot for this film. Let's head to the mall.

875
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: It does start in a mall, doesn't it. But it

876
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 2: can't be just any mall. It's a really creepy mall,

877
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 2: it really is. I don't know if Cronenberg picked it

878
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: because it was an especially creepy looking mall, or if

879
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 2: all malls in Canada were this creepy at the time.

880
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. How would you describe this mall?

881
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 1: Oh? I mean it's yeah. I didn't look up where

882
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 1: they filmed this. It seems like there were some great

883
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: locations scouting in this picture. It's kind of a splendid

884
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: scarlet sanctuary of a mall, but at the same time,

885
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: not in a way that feels manufactured, like there's a

886
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: scarlet sanctuary feel to some of the settings in Dead Ringers,

887
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: for example, there's very much intentional and very much works

888
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: in that movie. This feels like maybe they just found

889
00:49:55,000 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: this really weird crimson augmented mall environment in Canada and

890
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: it's just oh, it's great. It's one of these where

891
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: I was just taking in all the little like I

892
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: wanted to deposit and see what the stores were in

893
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: the background, you know, part of it being sort of

894
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: the cultural archaeology of watching anything set in a mall

895
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: from the eighties.

896
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 2: Totally, but also I would emphasize that it feels like

897
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 2: it's underground. I did not detect any hint of natural

898
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: light whatsoever. And the ceilings are lined with just rows

899
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 2: and rows of light bulbs projecting down from the ceiling.

900
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's absolutely splendid. And there's so many look like,

901
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: there was this one scene where our protagonist pauses in

902
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: front of a poster for hot Pogos and it shows

903
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: like a cartoon of a kid holding a corn dog,

904
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: and I was like, what is what's going on here?

905
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: Is our hot corn dogs called hot pogos in Canada.

906
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: I just never realized it. Well, I looked it up

907
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: and according to Wikipedia, in Quebec and Ontario, a battered

908
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: hot dog on a stick is called a and is

909
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: traditionally eaten with ordinary yellow mustard, which is a solid choice.

910
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 1: I think yellow mustard is your best condiment for any

911
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,399
Speaker 1: corn dog. Experience, at least if you're eating a real

912
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 1: corn dog, and a real corn dog, in my opinion,

913
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 1: should either be a fake hot dog at the center,

914
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: you know, like a soy dog or something, or if

915
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: you do eat meat, it should be a meat hot

916
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 1: dog that is on the verge of being fake meat,

917
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, like it's so processed that the difference between

918
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: it and a soy dog is just negligible.

919
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but either way, mustard. You gotta have mustard.

920
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, gotta get that yellow mustard out for your pogo.

921
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: So Canadian listeners, I was not aware, but I like it.

922
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: It sounds more fun in some respects than corn dog pogo.

923
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: I might go for the hot pogo next time.

924
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: Well, here is where we meet our protagonist, Cameron Vail.

925
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: He is wandering the food court of this subterranean underworld

926
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 2: mal snagging people's leftovers, and he looks shoveled. He's wearing

927
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 2: kind of a dirty trench coat. He's being presented as

928
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 2: a sort of disoriented, skulking outsider, and he's just grabbing

929
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 2: people's leftover POGs and stuffing them in his mouth. But unfortunately,

930
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 2: he catches the attention of a couple of ladies at

931
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 2: a nearby table, and we begin to hear them speaking.

932
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: They're they're saying things like, oh, I've never seen anything

933
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: so disgusting in my entire life. We're being stared at.

934
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 2: They let creatures like that in here. It's just awful.

935
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 2: But wait a second, like, are their lips actually moving

936
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 2: while they're saying these things? That's not so clear. And

937
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 2: Cameron Vale here he I guess we don't know his

938
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 2: name yet, but this characters he's bothered by their talking.

939
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 2: We see it appearing to cause him almost physical pain,

940
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 2: and so he turns his attention to these these two ladies,

941
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 2: and the one of them who seemed to be speaking,

942
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 2: though maybe her lips weren't moving, starts to have something

943
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: that looks like a migraine, which evolves into something that

944
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: looks like a seizure, and she's collapsing on the floor.

945
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 2: People are trying to help her, but this interaction gets

946
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: the attention of a couple of tough looking dudes nearby,

947
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 2: and they chase Cameron and immobilize him with a dart gun.

948
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a fun action sequence where he tries to

949
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: get away from him by jumping from one escalator to

950
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: the next. And it looked looked kind of dangerous. I

951
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: was like, I was like, ah, don't don't get caught

952
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: between them escalator and the ceiling sort of situation. But

953
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: he manages to make it over, but then succumbs to

954
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 1: the tranquilizer dart.

955
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, he collapses on the escalator and I had the

956
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 2: same reaction. I was like, oh, no, don't let your

957
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 2: shirt collar get caught in the Oh yeah, but anyway, Yeah,

958
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 2: So he wakes up later strapped to a hospital bed

959
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 2: in a large room where he is confronted by doctor

960
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 2: Paul Ruth Patrick McGowan, who gives him kind of a speech.

961
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 2: He you know, he says, Cameron, why are you such

962
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 2: a derelict? They've never met before, but he's introducing himself

963
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 2: and he says he can tell him why he's a derelict.

964
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 2: He says, you're a scanner and that has been the

965
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 2: source of all your agony, but I will show you

966
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 2: now that it can be a source of great power.

967
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 2: And from here dozens of people begin to walk into

968
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 2: the room. Doctor Ruth just has them come in and

969
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 2: sit in these rows and rows of chairs, and the

970
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 2: more people pour into the room, the more Cameron is

971
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,760
Speaker 2: in distress. We hear all of their internal monologues at once,

972
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 2: has a kind of great ocean of voices. And this

973
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 2: is torture for Cameron, you see, he's like writhing in

974
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: pain at hearing all of their voices at once. But

975
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: eventually doctor Ruth provides the cure. He gives Cameron an

976
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 2: injection of a drug called ephimarole, and it makes the

977
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 2: voices stop, and Cameron has relief. Almost he has relief,

978
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 2: as if for the first time in his life. Now

979
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,839
Speaker 2: next comes the most famous scene in the movie, the demonstration.

980
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 2: So we see that we're at the headquarters of a

981
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: corporation called CONSAC, and there's a demonstration being held for

982
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 2: a private audience in an auditorium, and we meet a

983
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 2: sort of timid, bookish man in a suit in glasses

984
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 2: on stage. This is Louis del Grande or del Grande.

985
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 2: I don't know how you pronounce his name.

986
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been saying del Grande, but you know, it's

987
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: just that's because it's such a big performance, you know,

988
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: it's a con.

989
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: And so this guy begins by giving a speech. He says,

990
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 2: I would like to scan all of you in this room,

991
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 2: one at a time, I must remind you that the

992
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 2: scanning experience is usually a painful one, sometimes resulting in nosebleeds, earaches,

993
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: stomach cramps, nausea, sometimes other symptoms of a similar nature.

994
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 2: But he assures them there is a doctor present. He

995
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 2: points out the doctor Gatineau, and he asks that no

996
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 2: one leave the room once the demonstration has begun, and

997
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 2: he calls for volunteers, and of course there's a long,

998
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 2: awkward silence because I don't know who knows what's sanning is,

999
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 2: who wants to be scanned. But finally, a bored looking

1000
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 2: man in one of the back rows raises his hand

1001
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 2: and comes to the stage and why it is Michael Ironside.

1002
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: What do you know?

1003
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 2: And it's not just Michael Ironside. He has an interesting

1004
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,280
Speaker 2: ring shaped scar above the bridge of his nose.

1005
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder what that is. Perhaps we'll find out later.

1006
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 2: So the scanner doing the demonstration asks Michael Ironside to

1007
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 2: think of something that the scanner would have no way

1008
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 2: of knowing, something that will not breach the security of

1009
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 2: his organization, maybe a personal detail from his life. And

1010
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 2: Michael Ironside says, all right, I have something in mind,

1011
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,359
Speaker 2: And when you watch the scene knowing what's coming. You

1012
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 2: can see little sinister flourishes, like little smirks and flares

1013
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 2: of delivery from Michael Ironside as he's getting ready for

1014
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 2: this thing. They kind of go by you the first time.

1015
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 2: For example, Michael Ironside asks the scanner if he has

1016
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 2: to close his eyes, and sanner assures him that it

1017
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, and scanning begins. Both men start by getting

1018
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 2: very intense looks on their faces, like they're very focused,

1019
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 2: maybe perhaps both struggling, maybe perhaps both in a little

1020
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 2: bit of pain. And because we don't know what we're

1021
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 2: looking at, you could just assume this is what it

1022
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: looks like when the scanner demonstrator reads somebody's mind. But

1023
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: this just escalates and things look weirder and weirder. Eventually

1024
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 2: it really starts to seem like something might be wrong,

1025
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: like are they supposed to look like they're in this

1026
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,919
Speaker 2: much distress? And there is an awesome, painful, droning sound

1027
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 2: in the musical score. I feel like, actually, just in

1028
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 2: a recent movie, I was like, do not include painful

1029
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 2: noises in the score of your movie. I take it back,

1030
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 2: this is why you should have it in Scanners. I

1031
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 2: was completely wrong, and then suddenly, without warning, the demonstrator's

1032
00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: head explodes, And I can see exactly why even people

1033
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 2: who haven't seen the movie or don't remember anything else

1034
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 2: about the movie, will remember this scene for the rest

1035
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 2: of their lives. It is one of the most shocking, disgusting, unexpected,

1036
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 2: unbelievable moments I can think of in any movie. Ever.

1037
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 2: I would go so far as to describe the scene

1038
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: as an almost awe inspiring act of filmmaking. Like, yes,

1039
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 2: it is gory and gross, and so part of its

1040
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 2: effect is like pure vulgar exploitation of our squeamishness, but

1041
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 2: it's also a masterful exercise in like building uneasiness and

1042
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 2: this sense of uncertainty and suspense and then relieving that

1043
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 2: tension with a spectacle that is so nasty it leaves

1044
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 2: people absolutely speechless.

1045
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can even knowing what's coming. And again you

1046
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: don't even have to have seen the film because to

1047
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: know what's coming, because the moment of the explosion has

1048
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: just been reproduced. It's become a meme. You can find

1049
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: it all over the place. It's a gift for of

1050
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: you know, on various formats and on discord and so forth.

1051
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: But when it hits in the film, Yeah, there is

1052
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: that feeling of release that built up pressure and like

1053
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: literal psychic pressure inside this character's head, and then the

1054
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: reaction to from all the characters that are present is

1055
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: pretty amazing. Like even iron size character Reva is I

1056
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: don't know that you would say he's horrified, but there

1057
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: is a sense that he is perhaps a little shocked

1058
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: at how how gross the results were or how powerful

1059
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: his attack.

1060
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 2: Was, Like he kind of looks down at the exploded

1061
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 2: head going like, oh, yeah, I know, I've read stuff

1062
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 2: about how this special effect was accomplished, Like I think

1063
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 2: they tried it several different ways and thought it didn't

1064
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 2: look right, and they eventually landed on the way that

1065
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 2: ended up in the final movie, which involved a shotgun.

1066
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is not surprising given how many shotguns are

1067
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: in this picture. I was really, this is one of

1068
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: the things I'm this viewing that I was kind of

1069
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: commenting to myself. I was like, Wow, lots of shotguns

1070
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: in this picture. This picture has a thing for shotguns.

1071
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, a shotgun was apparently used, a shotgun loaded

1072
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: with salt. I believe I used a latex head filled

1073
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: with I believe dog food, leftovers, fake blood, rabbit livers,

1074
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: all sorts of gross stuff. And I think one of

1075
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 1: the challenges apparently was they wanted it to explode, but

1076
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: they couldn't have it explode with sparks. They wanted it

1077
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: to feel very organic, at least in this one instance

1078
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: of psychic energy, and the picture like the ideas that

1079
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: like this is it's not fire, it's not electricity per se.

1080
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: It is some sort of almost organic process that's taking

1081
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: place here.

1082
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's disgusting, but also I mean, I just

1083
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 2: want to emphasize again, how if you haven't seen it

1084
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 2: before and you don't know it's coming. I don't know

1085
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 2: if that's possible for anybody, because you know, everybody knows

1086
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 2: that about this movie, But if you didn't actually know

1087
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 2: what was coming going in, it would be so shocking

1088
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 2: and leave you absolutely baffled. And I love that, you know,

1089
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 2: the audience is just as baffled as like the characters

1090
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 2: in the room are. But then there's this moment of

1091
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,439
Speaker 2: focus where people start turning to Michael Ironside and it's

1092
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 2: like did he somehow do that? Like did the scanner

1093
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 2: get scanned? And so Michael Ironside's character is apprehended by

1094
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 2: the Consect security guards. The head of security instructs the

1095
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 2: staff doctor to give Michael Ironside a shot of ephemarole, which, hmm,

1096
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 2: that's the same stuff that doctor Ruth gave to Cameron

1097
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:44,959
Speaker 2: Vail to quiet the voices earlier. And we later find

1098
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 2: out that ephemarole is a scan suppressant. It is a

1099
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 2: drug that essentially turns off a person's scanner abilities. So

1100
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,919
Speaker 2: they're giving the shot to this guy to disable him.

1101
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 2: But for some reason, the doctor when he goes to

1102
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 2: give the shot to Michael iron Side, Oh, it's like

1103
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 2: he can't quite line it upright. It's something's going on

1104
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 2: in his head, and he accidentally gives the shot to

1105
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 2: himself instead of Michael Ironside's hand.

1106
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: And in this we're seeing the more subtle powers of

1107
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: the of the scanner. Here, he's able to easily manipulate

1108
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 1: and puppet those around him into doing things they don't

1109
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: intend to do.

1110
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 2: Right, So, while the concept Kagoons are transporting Michael Ironside

1111
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 2: to another location by car, they get overwhelmed. They strangely

1112
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 2: start wrecking their own cars and turning their guns on themselves,

1113
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 2: while the prisoner just looks on smiling and well after

1114
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 2: that time for a corporate leadership, meaning and what do

1115
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 2: you know the scientists who earlier apprehended Cameron Vail, this

1116
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 2: doctor Ruth. He is there at the table with the

1117
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 2: with the CEO of Conseack. So the big boss, Trevellian says,

1118
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 2: in a line that I found so funny I wrote

1119
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,959
Speaker 2: it down. He says, last night we at Consect chose

1120
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 2: to reveal to the out side world our work with

1121
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 2: those telepathic curiosities known as scanners. The result six corpses

1122
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 2: and a substantial loss of credibility for our organization. I

1123
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 2: don't know why I keep wanting to compare this to RoboCop,

1124
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 2: which I guess came later, but the RoboCop meeting with

1125
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 2: the ED two nine when he's like it's just a glitch.

1126
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean I think the Clamp character in

1127
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: Grim Ones twos as a very similar line where it's like,

1128
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 1: like the grim Ones have been rampaging and he's like,

1129
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: like people could actually get killed. You know, that's what's

1130
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 1: going to do for the company, What that's going to

1131
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 1: do for our stock value?

1132
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 2: Well, so, anyway, in this scene which I thought was

1133
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 2: a very interesting and well written scene in the way

1134
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 2: it kind of unfurls the scenario of the movie. We

1135
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 2: learned that the company has a new director of internal security.

1136
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 2: Michael Ironside made the previous one shoot himself in the street,

1137
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 2: so they've got a new guy named Braden Keller, and

1138
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 2: Keller recommends that the company discontinue its scanner program at once.

1139
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 2: He says, our company is supposed to specialized in weapons

1140
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 2: and private armies, not fantasies. And doctor Ruth replies that, hey,

1141
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 2: the fact that six of their people were killed and

1142
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 2: the company was embarrassed in front of industry heads by

1143
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 2: a lone assassin using only scanning techniques in itself proves

1144
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 2: that scanners have immense potential as weapons, so we got

1145
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 2: to keep developing them as weapons. But Keller replies coming

1146
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 2: back saying, but hey, how many scanners do we have

1147
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 2: working with us right now? Ruth says, as of last night, none,

1148
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 2: So apparently they had one guy cooperating, and that was

1149
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 2: Louis del Grande, the demonstrator. He was their one scanner

1150
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 2: on the payroll, and Michael Ironside blew up his head,

1151
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 2: so they have none now. But then Ruth says, Consect

1152
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 2: Surveillance has gradually lost contact with all the names of

1153
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 2: scanners on our list, and I submit, this is not

1154
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 2: an accident. I think we've lost them to a program

1155
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 2: far in advance of ours. Ooh, and that's a good moment,

1156
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 2: he says. From my study of the situation, I've come

1157
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 2: to the conclusion that there is a scanner underground developed

1158
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 2: in North America. And Keller, you know, he's not buying this.

1159
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 2: He says, that's ridiculous. You can't get two scanners to

1160
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 2: sit in the same room together without going berserk. They

1161
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 2: can't stand being around one another. But nevertheless, Ruth says, nope,

1162
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 2: they're working together. And the underground has a leader. In fact,

1163
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 2: he's probably the man we met the night before, and

1164
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 2: his name is Darryl Revick. So he's got a solution.

1165
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 2: Either we let Daryl Revick just strike at us without retaliation,

1166
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 2: or we infiltrate his organization and decapitate it. And he's

1167
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 2: got just the weapon to use on that, the one

1168
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 2: scanner he just found, Cameron Vale.

1169
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 1: And so the board approves. They're like, all right, well,

1170
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 1: let's move with that program. We don't really need to

1171
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: see a presentation on it. We don't need to meet

1172
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 1: this guy. We trust you to do what you do,

1173
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 1: doctor Ruth.

1174
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 2: And here we reunite with Cameron Vale. Now Ruth is

1175
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 2: back in sort of the mode less in the like

1176
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 2: we must have weapons and assassin's mode. Now he's talking

1177
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 2: to Cameron again and they discuss how Cameron is not

1178
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 2: used to talking much. This is the scene where they

1179
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 2: establish how with other people's thoughts always filling his head,

1180
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 2: he was never able to develop an identity or a personality,

1181
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 2: and that the injection of a femerol to inhibit his

1182
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 2: scanning abilities. Since then, he's had a kind of clarity

1183
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 2: in the sense of self that he never had before.

1184
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 2: But he's also afraid because for the first time he

1185
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 2: can quote hear himself.

1186
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is something that this whole view of

1187
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: scanning is so nicely rolled out throughout the film. You

1188
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: learn a little bit more and more about it, and

1189
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 1: it never feels like like an info dump or anything, because, yeah,

1190
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: you learn that. It's like, what's going on with scanning

1191
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 1: is kind of they describe it as like nervous systems

1192
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 1: interacting with each other. Is this kind of like communal

1193
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: engagement between one mind and body and the other, and

1194
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 1: then it's just comes down to like levels of awareness

1195
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: and abilities to manipulate or block that shared state. So

1196
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 1: with with Cameron Vail, it's like this idea that you know,

1197
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 1: it's not just that the thoughts are coming in, but

1198
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: there are neural processes that he hasn't really had a

1199
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 1: chance to develop because the neural processes of others have

1200
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: been flowing in to take up that space in him.

1201
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this aspect of the movie is so interesting,

1202
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 2: And I wonder if I almost detect in common with

1203
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 2: Videodrome a subtle media critique, which is the idea of okay,

1204
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 2: So the scanners are unable to develop a healthy self

1205
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 2: identity without either some kind of treatment like taking a

1206
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 2: femarole to silence the voices or using some other method

1207
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 2: of getting other people's voices out of their heads. So

1208
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 2: like some scanners seem to have been able to cope

1209
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 2: by like living in total life isolation and sort of

1210
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 2: like we learn about one scanner later who does this

1211
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 2: through creating art, And I wonder could this be a

1212
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 2: commentary on NonStop passive consumption of media such as radio

1213
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 2: or TV. Which if it fills your head constantly with

1214
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:22,639
Speaker 2: other voices and you're never alone with your own thoughts.

1215
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 2: Could Cronenberg be maybe presenting a subtle argument that that

1216
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 2: sort of in a way prevents you from having a

1217
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:30,679
Speaker 2: personality of your own.

1218
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a that's a pretty solid read

1219
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 1: on it. I think there's a lot of merit to that.

1220
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 2: So everyone turn off the podcast.

1221
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: No, no, no, keep listening to the podcast NonStop at

1222
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 1: a double.

1223
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 2: Speed, a triple speed.

1224
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 1: It's got to be triple You can do triple speed

1225
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 1: if you do a half dose of ephemerol on top

1226
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:52,719
Speaker 1: of that. I mean, it's going to vary from listener

1227
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 1: to listener, but that's a general way you want to

1228
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 1: handle it.

1229
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:58,760
Speaker 2: Oh. We also in this part of the movie get

1230
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 2: some background on Darryl Revick, which is doctor Ruth shows

1231
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 2: Cameron some old footage of him in an institution of

1232
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 2: some kind after he drilled a hole in his own skull.

1233
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 2: That's the scar on his forehead to let the pressure out,

1234
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 2: to release the pressure, and I think we get the

1235
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 2: impression that he means like the voices, and so this

1236
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 2: was Revick's way of trying to cope with the cacophony.

1237
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:27,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a nice bit of trepanation' sploitation here,

1238
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 1: And of course this is based on the very real

1239
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: history of trepanation. If you want to learn more about Trepanation,

1240
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:36,680
Speaker 1: go back into the archives. We did an episode of

1241
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind about it several years back.

1242
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 2: But here we get some indoctrination, right, Like doctor Ruth

1243
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 2: is teaching Cameron that Revick is his enemy and that

1244
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 2: reVC will try to recruit him to serve in his

1245
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 2: crusade to destroy the society that created him. And so

1246
01:09:53,160 --> 01:10:01,640
Speaker 2: Ruth wants to encourage Cameron to get to Revick first.

1247
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 2: So how is he gonna find Revick? Well, from here,

1248
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 2: I guess maybe we can take a lighter skip through

1249
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 2: the plot because we don't have to go scene by

1250
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 2: scene on everything. But some of the main plot points

1251
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:20,960
Speaker 2: are He's got a first lead, which is another unaffiliated scanner,

1252
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 2: a guy named Benjamin Pierce, who is an artist, a

1253
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 2: sculptor who apparently has been able to keep himself sane

1254
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 2: by creating art.

1255
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, creepy weird art with giant heads and all sorts

1256
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 1: of cool stuff. It makes for a great scene, like

1257
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 1: when he's talking to to Cameron Vale. They actually go

1258
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 1: inside a large head, like an enormous human head that

1259
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 1: has like a little like area with pillows in it

1260
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,759
Speaker 1: inside or something. And so they're inside the head talking

1261
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 1: about the voices inside their head and it's it's nice.

1262
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 1: It works.

1263
01:10:56,479 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 2: So Veil tracks him down through some trickery and and

1264
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 2: some scanning techniques. But then he also, you know, when

1265
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:06,719
Speaker 2: he meets him, he's like, I need to find Darryl Revick,

1266
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 2: and dude wants nothing to do with this. Benjamin Pierce

1267
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 2: is just like, leave me alone. You don't want to

1268
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 2: do that. Go away. But while Vail is there, assassin's attack.

1269
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:20,480
Speaker 2: REVS guys show up with shotguns and it's just shotguns.

1270
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 2: Wall to Walt. Both types of bad guys in this

1271
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 2: movie have shotguns. The concept guys have shotguns. REVS guys

1272
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 2: have shotguns. It's like there was a sale at the

1273
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:30,599
Speaker 2: shotgun store.

1274
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:33,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a lot of shotguns in this picture.

1275
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 2: But after this attack, Vail survives sort of psychically repelling

1276
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 2: the assassins. But Pierce as he dies tells Vail psychically

1277
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:48,559
Speaker 2: to find somebody named Kim Oberst. And this is where

1278
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 2: here in this section, Vail goes to kim Obrist's would

1279
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 2: you call it like a scanner commune sort of?

1280
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, kind of a commune situation going on.

1281
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 2: Now. We already talked a bit about what happens at

1282
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,680
Speaker 2: this place. They seem to be engaging in a kind

1283
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 2: of ritual where they enmesh their minds with one another

1284
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 2: to achieve something previously unknown, beautiful and terrifying. And while

1285
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,759
Speaker 2: they're doing that, Revic's assassins track Veil down and attack

1286
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 2: yet again. There's a big car chase scene and only

1287
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 2: Veil and kim Oberist survive.

1288
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:25,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, the great sequence where the bus is crashed through

1289
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 1: a record store. I don't know about you, but I

1290
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 1: really enjoyed checking out all these various records in the background,

1291
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 1: some of which were instantly recognizable, like they have multiple

1292
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 1: copies of a Frank Zappa album back there, you see

1293
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 1: a Bowie album. But then there was other stuff I

1294
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: just had to look up. There's this one individual that

1295
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 1: there's a poster for Hermann Brood, and I was like,

1296
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: has that made up? Is this some sort of a

1297
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: nod to the Brood or something? But no, this is

1298
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 1: a Dutch musician that I just wasn't familiar with. It

1299
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 1: was a pretty big deal in some circles, and you know,

1300
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 1: various other little details I had to look up. And yeah,

1301
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 1: just just a well crafted sequence and well constructed set

1302
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 1: in a film that you're not going to remember for

1303
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 1: its bus crash.

1304
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 2: Well, anyway, after this whole sequence, Veil uncovers a conspiracy.

1305
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 2: He does some corporate espionage and figures out that Michael

1306
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 2: Ironside is working out of the headquarters of a company

1307
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 2: called BioCarbon Amalgamate, and he sneaks in and he does

1308
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 2: some computer hacking and determines that they are manufacturing large

1309
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 2: quantities of a femarole and shipping them out for some

1310
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 2: secret purpose, and he wants to find out why, but

1311
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 2: access to that information is restricted.

1312
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love the hacking in this because it is

1313
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 1: very I mean, it's very much in line with what

1314
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 1: you also see in Ridley Scott's Alien. This is that

1315
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:53,719
Speaker 1: period where computers worked by asking them a question and

1316
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: then the computer would tell you.

1317
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 2: You would type request access and it would say access denied,

1318
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:04,400
Speaker 2: and then you would type request override the access denied.

1319
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 2: So anyway, Vale and Overest want to find out what's

1320
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 2: going on, so they come in to meet Vale's handlers

1321
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 2: with Conseck, and then there's a big double cross because

1322
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:15,839
Speaker 2: we find out that the head of security at Conseck

1323
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 2: Keller he's secretly working in cahoots with Revick and he

1324
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 2: wants to kill them. They escape, but unfortunately Patrick McGowen,

1325
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:29,640
Speaker 2: fortunately or unfortunately again a morally ambiguous character, he is

1326
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 2: killed in the process. And here we get into what

1327
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:35,639
Speaker 2: I think many people now regard as the dumbest part

1328
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:37,320
Speaker 2: of the movie. And I would say, if there is

1329
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 2: anything in the movie that doesn't really work well, it

1330
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 2: is what we're about to talk about. It is the

1331
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:46,040
Speaker 2: sequence where Cameron is told by doctor Ruth that he

1332
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:51,640
Speaker 2: can get the computer files by scanning the computer the

1333
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 2: same way he scans a human, because a computer also

1334
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 2: has a nervous system. So he goes to a payphone

1335
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 2: and scans the computer through the phone line.

1336
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:04,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like this is a part of the

1337
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: film that that even I just can't imagine anyone being

1338
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 1: one hundred percent on board with this at the time,

1339
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 1: because they just don't feel like a computer is a

1340
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:18,799
Speaker 1: nervous system, and certainly these computers are not nervous systems. However,

1341
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:23,240
Speaker 1: if you were to make scanners today and set it

1342
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:25,680
Speaker 1: in the future. I could very well imagine a situation

1343
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: where your computers are wetwear computers that have some sort

1344
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 1: of organic neural component to them. And in that case,

1345
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: I think you could you could make an argument that, well,

1346
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 1: our psychics are able to commune with the computer because

1347
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 1: there is this they have this organic base in common.

1348
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 1: So if the if they were trying to hack not

1349
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 1: the computer system here, but the elevator from the lift,

1350
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 1: you know, that would make more sense.

1351
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 2: Oh man, yeah, that would be good. But yeah, I

1352
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 2: think this I've regarded as the weakest point in the film.

1353
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 2: I think the sequence was on a little too long.

1354
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:05,720
Speaker 2: It's not as interesting as the rest of the movie is.

1355
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 2: So there's like an attack and counter attack through like

1356
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:13,680
Speaker 2: the computer's self destruct features and so forth, and then

1357
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:15,560
Speaker 2: there's a big explosion.

1358
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is that. Cool. They're doing this all by

1359
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: the way, by by calling in from a payphone to

1360
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:27,640
Speaker 1: hack it, and when everything blows up, they're trying to

1361
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 1: like like shut it down and destroy Cameron Veil, and

1362
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:33,000
Speaker 1: they don't quite destroy him, but they do channel a

1363
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: lot of psychic energy through a you know this this

1364
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 1: remote phone booth and so we get the scene with

1365
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 1: the phone receiver melting in his hand, and then yeah,

1366
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: more explosions. So there's some good stuff sprinkled in there.

1367
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right, it goes on a bit long,

1368
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:50,600
Speaker 1: and of course is rooted in this kind of absurdity

1369
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 1: that feels a little bit out of pace with the

1370
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 1: rest of the picture.

1371
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I like it an exploding telephone booth. That's funny,

1372
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's a little tonally different than the rest

1373
01:16:59,120 --> 01:16:59,639
Speaker 2: of the film.

1374
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the good news is that once they get

1375
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 1: past that, like, we're kind of back on the original rails.

1376
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:08,839
Speaker 1: So if you don't like this segment of the picture,

1377
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry too much about it because

1378
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:13,719
Speaker 1: it's not going to ultimately play into the end game

1379
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 1: as much.

1380
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, so if you don't want the final twist

1381
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 2: of the movie revealed, you may take this opportunity to

1382
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:23,600
Speaker 2: tune out, because we have to talk about what the

1383
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:28,000
Speaker 2: big reveal is. What was it? What's inside the secret computer? Well,

1384
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 2: it is a list of doctors who are prescribing ephemerole

1385
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 2: or they're prescribing it. What do they have scanner patients

1386
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 2: who want to make the voices stop no. In fact,

1387
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 2: they're prescribing Ephemeral to pregnant women as a just regular

1388
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:47,679
Speaker 2: pregnant women as a tranquilizer, and we discover in fact

1389
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:50,679
Speaker 2: that this is linked to the origin of the first

1390
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 2: batch of scanners. So Ephemerole the drug was developed by

1391
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 2: doctor ruth by Patrick McGowan as a tranquilizer to be

1392
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:02,879
Speaker 2: used during pregnancy, but it had the unintended side effect

1393
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 2: of causing children to be born with telepathic powers to

1394
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 2: be born as scanners, and after they discovered this, it

1395
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 2: was discontinued. But there are all these scanners out there

1396
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 2: now and Revic and his co conspirators are sending out

1397
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 2: more of this drug to be prescribed because he wants

1398
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 2: to make a new generation of scanners and eventually recruit

1399
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 2: them for his army.

1400
01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 1: It's a fiendish plot, but one that works like it's

1401
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 1: not like Revuk has hey for him a rational plan,

1402
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 1: like he wants to make more people that are touched

1403
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 1: by the same ability so that they can become the

1404
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:46,599
Speaker 1: new status quo that they can take over and they

1405
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:51,439
Speaker 1: can rebel against the normal people that have made things

1406
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:52,479
Speaker 1: so difficult for them.

1407
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:57,120
Speaker 2: But reVC captures Veil and Obrist and then it comes

1408
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 2: to the final showdown, which is another I'd say, you know,

1409
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 2: if there's a standout secondary scene in the movie, people

1410
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:06,839
Speaker 2: remember after the demonstration with the exploding head, it's probably

1411
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:08,639
Speaker 2: this last scene the showdown.

1412
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, can they top the exploding head? Well, they

1413
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 1: don't try to top it. They do something different that

1414
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: is even more horrifying in my opinion, when we also

1415
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:22,879
Speaker 1: get the reveal that that Revuc and Veil are brothers,

1416
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: or at least that's what Revik says. Who knows if

1417
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 1: we can trust him, but he says that they are

1418
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 1: both doctor Ruth's sons, that they're the oldest of the

1419
01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:32,360
Speaker 1: Scanners and therefore the most powerful.

1420
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and somehow doctor Ruth did something to make them

1421
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:38,640
Speaker 2: like more powerful than all the other Scanners, which is

1422
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 2: why they have these special abilities. Yeah, they can overpower

1423
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:43,600
Speaker 2: even the other Scanners.

1424
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, they got the extra ifim are all in their

1425
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:49,680
Speaker 1: milk when they're babies or something. So yeah, we basically

1426
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,640
Speaker 1: we get the scene which you might expect or if

1427
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 1: you've never seen it before, where Revk is saying, join me, brother,

1428
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 1: you know, join me on the dark side, will rise up,

1429
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 1: We'll rule over the new Scanner babies together and take

1430
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:05,559
Speaker 1: over the world. Cameron Vaildo says, says, Nope, I'm not

1431
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 1: going to do that, and hits Revick in the head

1432
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 1: with a paperweight and at that point it's on. It's

1433
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:14,639
Speaker 1: a scanner battle to the death with one psychic mind

1434
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:18,720
Speaker 1: attempting to dominate the other. And who, I don't know

1435
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:21,400
Speaker 1: about you, Joe, but this, this entire sequence, the sequence

1436
01:20:21,439 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 1: that I've seen before, mind, you just really creep me

1437
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 1: out this time. And I mean it. And I've seen

1438
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff in films. You know, I'm a

1439
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 1: kid who grew up watching The Bad Guy's Melt in

1440
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: slow motion on The Raiders VHS.

1441
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah it's gross, and it's it's hard to watch, but

1442
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:40,720
Speaker 2: it's also pretty astounding.

1443
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:43,880
Speaker 1: Yeah it's And I was really trying to break down,

1444
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:46,320
Speaker 1: like why is this so disturbing and why does it

1445
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 1: work so well? And I think they're basically like three factors.

1446
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:53,559
Speaker 1: So first of all, that the obvious our protagonist and

1447
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 1: antagonists here are both like literally destroying each other's bodies

1448
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:00,599
Speaker 1: with their psychic powers here, and perhaps to destroying their

1449
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 1: own bodies as part of it as they channel these

1450
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 1: destructive powers. So like you know, faces, pulsating, stuff bursting.

1451
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 1: It's just really it's hard to watch, especially your hero

1452
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:17,080
Speaker 1: go through this level of physical trauma.

1453
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1454
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 1: Secondly, the effects are just really good. These are just

1455
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:25,760
Speaker 1: really solid practical effects. Like when Veil ends up gouging

1456
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:27,880
Speaker 1: out parts of his own face that have just been

1457
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 1: bulging and pulsating and popping. Is just really black. It's

1458
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:33,679
Speaker 1: just really gross.

1459
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:37,080
Speaker 2: It's awful. I think part of the effect of why

1460
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 2: this scene is so bad because there are other scenes where,

1461
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 2: like the hero of the movie gets injured, even you know,

1462
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:46,720
Speaker 2: traumatic injuries, that aren't as awful as this. And I

1463
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 2: think it's because the injury appears to be some sort

1464
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:54,640
Speaker 2: of deep, systemic malfunction of the body rather than just

1465
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 2: like getting like cuts or impacts or something.

1466
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:00,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not our hero getting shot in the

1467
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 1: shoulder or anything. This is like gouging parts of his

1468
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:07,639
Speaker 1: face out and then eventually his eyeballs explode. That level

1469
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:11,280
Speaker 1: of trauma. And I think the third factor is that

1470
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:13,880
Speaker 1: the body horror that we see in this scene. It's

1471
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:18,320
Speaker 1: this weird mix of traumatic injury and mutation without ever

1472
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:21,719
Speaker 1: actually crossing the line into a clear sense of movie mutation.

1473
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:24,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's like their bodies don't seem to becoming

1474
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:28,760
Speaker 1: completely other, but the weird energies flowing through them are

1475
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:32,559
Speaker 1: kind of horrifically exposing a hidden anatomy and it's just

1476
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:37,439
Speaker 1: dreadful to behold. Yeah, Like when you see veins like

1477
01:22:37,720 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 1: pulsating in their arms and across their face, You're like,

1478
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 1: that doesn't match up to what I know is underneath

1479
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 1: the face or the arm, But I'm totally believing that

1480
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:48,920
Speaker 1: what is being revealed there is real.

1481
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's the secret war being revealed. Yeah, but

1482
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:54,439
Speaker 2: this time it's like underneath the skin.

1483
01:22:55,240 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, they're pulsating and exploding, eventually erupting into fire.

1484
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:04,160
Speaker 1: We get this kind of religious aura to it. His

1485
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 1: veil has twin flames and both of his palms and

1486
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:12,639
Speaker 1: then yeah, exploding, And then we get the ending here

1487
01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 1: where Oberis comes in. She finds Veil's just husk of

1488
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 1: a body. He's just completely immolated, and then she hears

1489
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:24,519
Speaker 1: his voice from over in the corner. There's Veil's coat.

1490
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 1: He has this big kind of cool jacket. It's not

1491
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:29,360
Speaker 1: a jacket, it's a full fledged coat that he's wearing

1492
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 1: in most of the film, and there's a character in

1493
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:34,280
Speaker 1: the corner with that coat over them. They pull the

1494
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:37,120
Speaker 1: coat back and it looks like Revic, but it's not

1495
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:40,679
Speaker 1: Revec's voice. It's not Reveck's mind in there, like clearly

1496
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: in this battle of wills, this battle of minds veil

1497
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:48,320
Speaker 1: one and it's now his mind that occupies a Revck's body.

1498
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:50,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he pulled a fast one on him. We're led

1499
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:53,879
Speaker 2: to believe that, like he let reVC destroy his body,

1500
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 2: but somehow traded places with his consciousness.

1501
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And so we get this wonderful Cronenbergy ending

1502
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,320
Speaker 1: where the end is the beginning. Our heroes have won

1503
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 1: because they embraced extreme change and extreme weirdness and perhaps

1504
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 1: kind of embraced a kind of posthuman identity.

1505
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:12,720
Speaker 2: You know.

1506
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 1: It's like the way out of this problem is through

1507
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:19,439
Speaker 1: it and you know, becoming this different being.

1508
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:24,160
Speaker 2: So computer scanning subplot aside, I think Scanners holds up great.

1509
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:28,640
Speaker 2: This is it's excellent. It's gross in the parts that

1510
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 2: are supposed to be gross. It's shocking in the parts

1511
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 2: that are supposed to be shocking. It's also, i think,

1512
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:37,240
Speaker 2: actually much smarter and more thoughtful and more interesting than

1513
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:38,599
Speaker 2: a lot of initial reviewers.

1514
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 1: Gave it credit for Yeah, and weirder than you might

1515
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:44,720
Speaker 1: remember it. I found it weirder than I remembered it.

1516
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1517
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 1: I should also say that, in rewatching the film, I

1518
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:51,360
Speaker 1: was struck by the amount of care it seems to

1519
01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 1: give this granted fantastic and sci fi horror vision of neurodiversity. So,

1520
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:59,639
Speaker 1: to be clear, horror movies are not a great place

1521
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 1: to look for nuanced or insightful views of things like

1522
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:05,400
Speaker 1: mental illness. But there's there's probably a lot to dissect

1523
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:08,880
Speaker 1: here concerning the way the Scanner characters present these different

1524
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:13,680
Speaker 1: ideas of neuro divergent again fantasy neurodivergent people in the

1525
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 1: given world.

1526
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Like the way the struggles of the different

1527
01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:21,200
Speaker 2: Scanner characters have manifested in like different outcomes in their lives,

1528
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 2: and we see the coping strategies they've come up with,

1529
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 2: And yeah, I think that's that is interesting, Like that

1530
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:30,080
Speaker 2: that Veil never really had a coping strategy until he

1531
01:25:30,120 --> 01:25:33,280
Speaker 2: got a medication, that like one guy had a coping

1532
01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 2: strategy through through art, that Kim OBErs did through community.

1533
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like like he has that kind of heartbreaking moment

1534
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:44,240
Speaker 1: with the artist with Pierce where he said, like Pierce

1535
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 1: is describing how the art keeps him sane, and he

1536
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:49,599
Speaker 1: and granted, he's, you know, doing his spy game kind

1537
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:53,439
Speaker 1: of thing here, so he's being deceitful, but he says

1538
01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:55,400
Speaker 1: what seems rather honestly, He's like, but I don't I

1539
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:58,120
Speaker 1: don't have anything like that. I don't I don't have

1540
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 1: this thing that you have to help me combat this problem.

1541
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:03,960
Speaker 1: And that's why I need you to take me to Revck.

1542
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 1: And I don't know. Was that kind of resonated with me.

1543
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 1: It was a nice small moment in this film. Yeah,

1544
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 1: I agree, all right that Scanner's the nineteen eighty one classic.

1545
01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 1: I don't think we'll be covering Scanner's two Scanners three

1546
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:24,599
Speaker 1: or the Scanner cop movies. I don't know, never say never,

1547
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:27,639
Speaker 1: but I feel like we covered the best one here.

1548
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the sequels kind of they keep all

1549
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:34,840
Speaker 2: the gross stuff and the heads exploding, but they do

1550
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:39,000
Speaker 2: not retain the level of thoughtfulness of the original.

1551
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Mostly, I think I remember at one point, this

1552
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:44,919
Speaker 1: was years and years back, we were talking about scanner

1553
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:48,800
Speaker 1: face and what actors make the best scanner face. So

1554
01:26:49,439 --> 01:26:51,679
Speaker 1: I don't remember our findings, but I think we generally

1555
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:54,160
Speaker 1: agreed that Michael Ironside is hired to beat.

1556
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 2: I think Scanner Coop has Richard Lynch in it, and

1557
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:01,360
Speaker 2: I believe Richard Lynch had a pretty good scanner face.

1558
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:03,800
Speaker 1: I bet he had a good one. Yeah. And of

1559
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:07,320
Speaker 1: course David Hewlett is in the initial sequel, and I

1560
01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:09,479
Speaker 1: haven't seen him in that where I don't remember seeing

1561
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 1: him in that, but I've seen Hewlett and other things

1562
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:14,040
Speaker 1: that he's quite good in. So I was really impressed

1563
01:27:14,040 --> 01:27:16,160
Speaker 1: with a role that he has in the Gila de

1564
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:20,880
Speaker 1: Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities. He plays this grave robber who's

1565
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:24,080
Speaker 1: desperate to get enough gold fillings out of teeth to

1566
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:27,400
Speaker 1: pay off bookies, and so he's trying to rob graves

1567
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:29,960
Speaker 1: and a haunted cemetery and incounting all sorts of horror

1568
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 1: and it's a wonderful performance. All right, Well, we're gonna

1569
01:27:35,040 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 1: go ahead and shut the book on Scanners here, but

1570
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:38,640
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from everyone out there if you

1571
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 1: have memories or impressions of Scanners, if you saw it

1572
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:44,639
Speaker 1: in the theater. We always love to hear those stories

1573
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:47,280
Speaker 1: of people who saw these films when they originally came

1574
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 1: out or you have memories of the first time you

1575
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 1: saw it. I would love to hear from anyone who

1576
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:53,920
Speaker 1: did not know that head was going to blow up?

1577
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:56,200
Speaker 1: What did you think when you watch this film for

1578
01:27:56,240 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: the first time. A reminder that we're primarily a science

1579
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:01,720
Speaker 1: podcast with core episodes and Tuesdays and Thursdays and the

1580
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 1: stuff to blow your my podcast feed. But here on

1581
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 1: Fridays we set aside most serious concerns and we just

1582
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:08,920
Speaker 1: talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema. I

1583
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 1: blog about these episodes at immutamusic dot com. But also

1584
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:14,720
Speaker 1: you can go to letterbox dot com. It's l E

1585
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:17,120
Speaker 1: T T E R b oox D and you'll find

1586
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 1: our user name on there is weird House. We have

1587
01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 1: a list of all the films we've covered. This is

1588
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:25,480
Speaker 1: the ninety ninth film that we've covered on Weird House Cinema.

1589
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:28,040
Speaker 1: The next film we cover will be the one hundredth film.

1590
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 1: Who knows what we'll pick for that?

1591
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 2: Ooh, that's putting a lot of pressure on Ralbye. We

1592
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:33,800
Speaker 2: gotta make a good choice.

1593
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, or you just let that pressure dissipate by exploding

1594
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:39,000
Speaker 1: through the head. I don't know. Wait, maybe we just

1595
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:41,880
Speaker 1: pick something like normal, and it'll become special to us

1596
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:43,240
Speaker 1: because it was one hundredth picture.

1597
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 2: There you go, huge thanks to our audio producer JJ Posway.

1598
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:51,080
Speaker 2: If you would like to get in touch with us

1599
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:54,040
Speaker 2: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1600
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:56,080
Speaker 2: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1601
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:58,840
Speaker 2: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1602
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:07,200
Speaker 2: your Mind dot com.

1603
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:10,360
Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1604
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:14,240
Speaker 3: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1605
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.