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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I never told you production of iHeart Radio. It is

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Speaker 1: time for another Happy Hour. Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 1: We hope that you get to take this moment to

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Speaker 1: relax however you would like. If you are drinking, please

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Speaker 1: drink responsible no matter what it is. Peek behind the curtain.

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Speaker 1: We are recording two Happy Hours back to back. Oh so,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of a teaser because this one's going

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Speaker 1: to come first. Oh so, this is kind of a spoiler.

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Speaker 1: But we are going to be talking about a beer

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Speaker 1: called Brave Noise, which has a really interesting story behind it.

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Speaker 1: And this is from local brewery where you used to work, Samantha,

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Speaker 1: Orpheus Brewing. Very great company, supportive people, good friends, still

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Speaker 1: see them, love them. Hey, hello, listen to you. That

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Speaker 1: was Orpheous. I was saying hey too. I was saying

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Speaker 1: hello as well. Responding to me, I was also saying hello,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. But it is a tall boy,

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Speaker 1: so we thought we were just just continue on to

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Speaker 1: drink it. It's very delicious. It's a pale ale. This

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Speaker 1: is how we were drinking responsibly ourselves instead of trying

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Speaker 1: to do several drinks in the show, We're like, this

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Speaker 1: is a big boy, but we're gonna we'll go through

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Speaker 1: two episodes with it. Yeah, I wondering we should we

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Speaker 1: should look into some of those terms in the alcohol

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Speaker 1: industry that may or may not be sexist. Probably are

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Speaker 1: tall boy would be interesting, but that is for the

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Speaker 1: next half houri. We will dig into this beer and

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Speaker 1: all the amazing work that is behind it. For this one,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about something that I called the

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Speaker 1: Cold War. Would love to know if you have a

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Speaker 1: term for it, or any listeners, if you have a

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Speaker 1: term for it, if you do something similar. I know

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Speaker 1: I've discussed it before, but this is the Cold War

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Speaker 1: is a sort of precaution that I put in place

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Speaker 1: wherein I do not initiate contact with straight men in

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Speaker 1: heterosexual relationships, even if we are really good friends. I

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Speaker 1: sometimes break this rule when I am drunk, or if

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Speaker 1: there's something relevant, like like an event we're both you know,

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Speaker 1: involved in, or something something where it's clear we've already

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Speaker 1: had kind of a pre established understanding we're both interested

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Speaker 1: in it, then I will slip up. But in general

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Speaker 1: I do not do it anymore. And this is probably

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Speaker 1: within the past five years, I've instituted this, so I

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Speaker 1: let the men in this control when and how to

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Speaker 1: contact me as an Instagram, Twitter, text, whatever that is.

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Speaker 1: And my therapist recently pointed out, like how very sad

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Speaker 1: this might be. I feel like it's okay, so and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have to come back to all of this

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Speaker 1: because it's opening up so much. But this is also

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Speaker 1: that same conversation of keeping safe, And in my head,

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Speaker 1: it was never a big thing because I know what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about, and in my world I didn't have

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Speaker 1: a title for this because I didn't necessarily do this,

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Speaker 1: It just didn't happen. I guess you can say I

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Speaker 1: am a girl's girl, meaning that I will always lean

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Speaker 1: towards being loyal to the ladies. I am one of

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Speaker 1: the weird ones that have always felt that way, maybe

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Speaker 1: because I just did not care about relationships growing up

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Speaker 1: and or watched all the bad relationships. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but many times or it would turn on the women,

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Speaker 1: like how women just really hated each other. When a

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Speaker 1: cheating situation happened and it involved two women and one men,

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Speaker 1: it was such a weird thing that the guy came

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Speaker 1: out of the squeaky clean that like, what is happening,

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Speaker 1: but all of that is safe. When it came to

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Speaker 1: married Ben, being young, I was very naive and thinking

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Speaker 1: that just didn't happen. Why would they contact me? Why

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Speaker 1: would I contact with them? If you have a wife,

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Speaker 1: I'm probably or if you're in a long term relationship

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Speaker 1: with a woman or the partner rather, I am probably

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Speaker 1: going to contact them first. Like that's never been a

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Speaker 1: thing for me. Now, of course that's different for me

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Speaker 1: for like long term friendship friendships. So I do have

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Speaker 1: a couple of guy friends that I've never talked to

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Speaker 1: the girlfriends beforehand maybe and so therefore, yeah, it's but

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Speaker 1: it's not like I have intimate conversations with them. So

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Speaker 1: they're like, it's just that seems like off limits to me.

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Speaker 1: And when I say intimate conversations that could be also casual,

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Speaker 1: how you doing? Like that seems ran into me other

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Speaker 1: than if we're all checking up on each other as

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Speaker 1: a group, right right, It's it's funny and kind of

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Speaker 1: upsetting how this is still Like I only just watched

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Speaker 1: when Harry met Sally for the show, and that's one

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Speaker 1: of the key points of that movie, is like Ken

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Speaker 1: men and women have platonic relationships. Like only two years ago,

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Speaker 1: a good male friend of mine asked me this and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, well, we're friends, aren't we bt doves. This

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Speaker 1: is a sex in the City episode. I think it's

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Speaker 1: called the Cold War. Oh my gosh, some kind of

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Speaker 1: reference to it. Oh, I thought I came up with it,

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Speaker 1: because it's like it's a weird power dynamic in a

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Speaker 1: strange way too. But it's like I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: contact you until you contact me, and you're kind of

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Speaker 1: feeling out the other person. This makes it sound like

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Speaker 1: I've had a million instances of this. It is actually

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Speaker 1: called the Cold War. Oh my god, I thought I

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Speaker 1: came up with that. Sex in the City beat me

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Speaker 1: to it once again once again. Yeah, I think it's

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Speaker 1: such a weird aspect because this whole like I don't

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Speaker 1: contact too is also for me the mind game that

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Speaker 1: I have when I'm dating someone new. I won't be

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Speaker 1: the first one that I won't be he has to

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Speaker 1: show me he's interested in first, and not because I'm

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Speaker 1: a woman. It's just because I don't want to be

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Speaker 1: seen as overbearing or too eager, right, No, totally, that's

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Speaker 1: I feel that too, And it's just funny how much

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Speaker 1: thought goes into sending your like smiley face text, like

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Speaker 1: when do you send it out? You send it? What

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Speaker 1: gift or meme just platonic? And what gifted meme are like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I take my pants off exactly. These are the questions.

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Speaker 1: These are the questions. I tried to explain this to

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Speaker 1: my mom once and the look she gave me was

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Speaker 1: one of clearly she had no idea what I was

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Speaker 1: talking about. So this whole cold war thing is something

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Speaker 1: I started doing after I did get burned several times

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Speaker 1: of thinking, yes, this guy is in a stable relationship

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Speaker 1: like you, Samantha, like I'm good. Because of that, there

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Speaker 1: can be no misinterpretation of flirting, even though like I'm

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Speaker 1: not flirting. But this is again like when we're going

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Speaker 1: back to how we victim blame women or how like

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Speaker 1: if something, if you attract unwanted attention, then a lot

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Speaker 1: of times you go back and you're like, well, what

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Speaker 1: did I do? Was it some signal license? And that

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Speaker 1: very question was it some signal license is one of

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Speaker 1: the things I was like, Okay, I want to stop.

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Speaker 1: I don't even want to risk sending the signal and

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking about very that's serious, but in

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Speaker 1: general this is kind of silly, but it is this

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Speaker 1: has happened to me, and I felt so upset because

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Speaker 1: then I started thinking like, well, was that all what

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Speaker 1: all of this was about the whole time? And then

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Speaker 1: I felt like I'm monster because I ruined their relationship

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Speaker 1: even though I didn't, but I felt like I did.

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Speaker 1: And so because of all of this, I just started

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Speaker 1: to I want to remove that from the table. And

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Speaker 1: it is sad because I I do have a lot

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Speaker 1: of dude friends that I'm really close to and in

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Speaker 1: the industry that we work in, and it is predominant Lehman,

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Speaker 1: and I am friends with a lot of our coworkers.

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Speaker 1: Fortunately I'm very lucky in that regard. But I don't,

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Speaker 1: I think twice, I don't I want to get send

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Speaker 1: any message that could be misinterpreted. And I've also been

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Speaker 1: called naive for assuming like okay in a stable relationship,

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Speaker 1: at least to my appearance, heterosexual relationship usually, But I

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Speaker 1: don't really know how I feel about that, because that

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Speaker 1: feels like it's either assuming that people are platonic relationships

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Speaker 1: aren't possible. Our relationships just aren't meant to last. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I get I am naive, but

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Speaker 1: I do think that's such a weird thing to We're

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Speaker 1: just like, oh yeah, just be just interested in having

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Speaker 1: sex with you, Like right, you know this is like,

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Speaker 1: first of all, you feel like, as a person who

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Speaker 1: was taught to be humble, why would you think that

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Speaker 1: about yourself? And like to think that about yourself is

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Speaker 1: feeling very narcissistic, and so I'm like, I wouldn't think

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Speaker 1: that about myself. But yeah, but I'm with you and

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Speaker 1: that Yeah, but I don't want to come in thinking

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Speaker 1: that dude's a bad dude without knowing that and assuming

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Speaker 1: that way. Again, I also had this weird rule, and

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Speaker 1: I remember with some of the guy friends that I

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Speaker 1: had that I wanted to remain close. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I really hope you date someone you you end up

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Speaker 1: with someone that we both like, because if she doesn't

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Speaker 1: like me, I will be around. I can't be around.

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Speaker 1: I know this because I will not be whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: I will not be contingent in your relationship. So that

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Speaker 1: that was, and I've been fortunate that most of my

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Speaker 1: friends have had great people in their lives. So I'm like, cool, cool, cool.

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Speaker 1: Of course some of them we had to work some

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Speaker 1: things out, but like because there was this obviously like

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Speaker 1: you've been around and I think you know this for

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Speaker 1: the long term friendships. If I've been around longer than

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Speaker 1: you and you have these inside jokes, there's this moment

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Speaker 1: of feeling alienated and what does that mean? And is

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Speaker 1: it jealousy or is it just feeling insecure? It could

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Speaker 1: be one of the same, to be fair, Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 1: There are those things like that. And we've talked before

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Speaker 1: about how again sort of a joke, but you know

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Speaker 1: when your friend gets married or has kids, sort of like, well,

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Speaker 1: it was nice knowing you. Well I did right, right,

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Speaker 1: So there's some elements to that. I do think, and

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Speaker 1: this is for a bigger episode, but I do think

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Speaker 1: there's an element of a lot of times when this happens.

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Speaker 1: I'm in the examples I'm thinking of, I am younger

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Speaker 1: and or nerdier, and I don't. I just don't. I'm

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Speaker 1: not interested, And for some reason, I think that interests

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Speaker 1: people like I don't know. There's a whole level too.

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Speaker 1: For me, I was a nanny, so as a woman

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Speaker 1: of color being a nanny, it was almost the stereotype

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Speaker 1: and assumption of not only are you this, but you're

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Speaker 1: for the use of this. So it was weird, like

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Speaker 1: and it happened a lot, but this to me happened

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Speaker 1: the most in that situation of being a nanny, And

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Speaker 1: it was a weird like why are you sexualizing me

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Speaker 1: in such a way that I was like I've gotten advance,

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Speaker 1: Like someone kissed me and I was like, what is happening?

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Speaker 1: And his fiance was like down the hallway and I

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Speaker 1: was like, what are you doing? And I had to

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Speaker 1: pull away and of course, like they were drunk. It's

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Speaker 1: an excuse, like, and I've had like bad situations that

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I thought this was going in a completely

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Speaker 1: different way, what is happening. So there's definitely moments of

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Speaker 1: that that happened, But again, it was weirdly enough most

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Speaker 1: of the time when I was a nanny. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's a whole independent conversation that we could dive into.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to right now, but yeah, like that

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Speaker 1: was just this vulnerable level of like this is who

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Speaker 1: you are. Yeah, And I think there's also a layer of, um,

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Speaker 1: the cool girl conversation of if you're not like obviously

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Speaker 1: when you're in a long term relationship with someone. It's

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Speaker 1: not what we see often in media. So if you're

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Speaker 1: it's strange to put myself in this mindset. But it's

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Speaker 1: almost like going on a vacation where it was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this looks so much better because she doesn't come with

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Speaker 1: all this baggage. Perhaps, but she does. You just don't

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Speaker 1: know it because you're right in a long term relationship

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Speaker 1: with her. Right. And then again, this is something that

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Speaker 1: I have learned from and no longer naive and automatically

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Speaker 1: assume the worst about men, and we're not doing the

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Speaker 1: all not all men. I don't want to hear that.

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Speaker 1: Don't give me that. But the lesson in this is Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's happened more than once to the point that people

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Speaker 1: I had trusted and thought could be trustworthy, we're not.

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Speaker 1: And so therefore I will not put myself in this

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Speaker 1: situation ever again. Right, it's another situation where we're putting

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Speaker 1: the onus on women on ourselves. Two remove ourselves from

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Speaker 1: the situation. And that is touching on like that whole like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't resist because did you see what she was wearing?

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Speaker 1: And all of these things where it's being nice to me,

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Speaker 1: exactly mild at me, you listen to me. People don't

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Speaker 1: do that unless they're interested, right, romantically, it's sexually interested that. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's reached the point where we put in protections like

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Speaker 1: this one. I'm also thinking of the woman in this

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Speaker 1: heterosexual relationship, who I often know but not as well,

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Speaker 1: but I don't want her to be like wondering about

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Speaker 1: what my intentions are. And I think it just points

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Speaker 1: to a whole host of problems around these stereotypes about

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Speaker 1: how we perceive every interaction between men and women as

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Speaker 1: romantic and sort of his general culture of understanding that

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Speaker 1: men gonna cheat, but somehow, at the same time, the

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Speaker 1: woman is being paranoid. I think the pressure to not

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Speaker 1: be that paranoid girlfriend leads to some women, yeah, swallowing

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Speaker 1: their words, that never voicing them. And that is another

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Speaker 1: reason why I'm like, well, I'm just not gonna my hands.

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Speaker 1: Removed myself from the situation, right, And of course the

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Speaker 1: sex and the city go into it is different than this,

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Speaker 1: for sure, but it is that distrust between singles and

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Speaker 1: married women. That's the kind of conversation. But again, it's

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Speaker 1: that whole level of pitting women against women. That that's

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Speaker 1: kind of that bigger narrative of like what is this

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Speaker 1: and why is it that? Again women are responsible and

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Speaker 1: or women are the angry ones, or women are at fault,

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of like, why are we putting all

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Speaker 1: this on women? And this is why we have a

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Speaker 1: complicated relationship in trusting our own On top of that, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: there there's so much, so much going on with this,

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Speaker 1: like social media to all life in place look so much.

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Speaker 1: It's true, but I have I have been burned before,

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Speaker 1: like shocked, and then you feel terrible and you start thinking,

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Speaker 1: well did I lead them on? And I've gone back

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Speaker 1: through every message before and like, oh my god, I

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Speaker 1: didn't mean for it to be interpreted that way, and

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Speaker 1: just feel awful and that that's more of that victim

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Speaker 1: blaming stuff, and so I just it is sad. I'll

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Speaker 1: like compose a message and then delete it. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I can't be open and it makes me not

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Speaker 1: trust myself and my own understanding of how people and

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Speaker 1: particularly men in this case, perceive me and the value

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Speaker 1: they place on me. And Samantha knows, sometimes I get

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Speaker 1: the urge to do what I call relationship audits where

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Speaker 1: I'll show like a woman like, look look at these sticks.

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Speaker 1: I've never done anything suspicious, which is messed that is

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Speaker 1: messed up. But I just want I don't want to

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Speaker 1: mess I don't want to mess up with the relationship.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be perceived as flirting or cause issues.

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Speaker 1: And it's happened so many times now, and I know

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Speaker 1: it's not my fault, but it feels like it. I'll

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Speaker 1: even like one time, I like frantically told a woman

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Speaker 1: like I'm a sexual, you don't have to worry about me,

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Speaker 1: which is do a fit and awful. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: those moments of having to be I know, for a

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Speaker 1: lot of the LGBTQ a sexual, I'm a lesbian, I'm bisexual,

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Speaker 1: and you know, like I am in a relationship, I'm polyamorous,

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Speaker 1: so we are like that, you're you know in this

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Speaker 1: level of like, don't fear this title. Feared this title

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Speaker 1: like this's is like you have to put it on

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Speaker 1: in order for the people to see you correctly. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: it's unfortunate because it is both true and also shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to be used as a basically like excuse for example,

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Speaker 1: or just being able to be like, no, this is

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Speaker 1: my lifestyle, doesn't have to be for your standards, This

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Speaker 1: is my standards, but have to explain it being yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then you know a lot of times and my

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Speaker 1: experience will get the inevitable no, you aren't, like you

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Speaker 1: are using that as this excuse, which you are, but

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Speaker 1: it's true, right, And we've talked about how messed up

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Speaker 1: that whole thing is. And I've been thinking about this

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Speaker 1: a lot lately because we talked about it in our

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Speaker 1: past book club on a sexual and I just read

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Speaker 1: this book called dub Coot and it talks about like

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Speaker 1: if no has no value, then what the hell are

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Speaker 1: we talking about? Like it has to be a legitimate

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Speaker 1: answer that we respect. But anyway, so much it is

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Speaker 1: in speaking of it's not like this thing can't happen

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Speaker 1: gay relationships. But for some reason, I am far less

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Speaker 1: worried when it comes to texting a woman in a

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Speaker 1: relationship with another woman about then misinterpreting what I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: And I think that says a lot as well. I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of cautiousness in general and gay

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Speaker 1: relationships that there's so much steam about if you're gay,

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Speaker 1: that means you attracted to all of that retracted so

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Speaker 1: that you all of them and you're having to like

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Speaker 1: show real quickly. No, no, no, that's not how this works.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like people are already on alert, so

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Speaker 1: therefore they're also just as cautious. Yeah, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: this is a lot has all my mind for this

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Speaker 1: happy hour, But there's so much we can compact that

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Speaker 1: this is simple like text. And I know that this controversial,

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Speaker 1: but I have had friends that have cheated, still friends

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Speaker 1: with them. I don't think cheating is right. It hurts me.

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Speaker 1: It has hurt me more than once, like deeply hurt

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Speaker 1: me more than once. But it does take at least

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Speaker 1: two to tango it off, and I see, I can

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Speaker 1: see how things happen. If it's like a repeated action,

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Speaker 1: then that's when I'm like, mmmm right, But it's it's

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Speaker 1: extremely hurtful for sure. And I've become so worried about

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Speaker 1: playing a part in someone's relationship falling apart, or even

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Speaker 1: just the thought people thinking that I might have cheated,

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Speaker 1: especially the woman in this case thinking that I might

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Speaker 1: have been cheating, that I've just removed myself, and I'm

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Speaker 1: so worried about the perceived intentions from everyone involved. It's

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Speaker 1: it's unfortunate. It's so it's on one level, it is

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Speaker 1: kind of silly. It's like I could just shut it down,

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Speaker 1: I guess, but it is hurtful, you know, it's at

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Speaker 1: the moment when you are like, oh, that's what this was, right,

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Speaker 1: But that's the other part is you don't quite know,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to assume. And also just because you

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Speaker 1: say you're not doesn't mean they're gonna believe you. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's true. I mean, it's just upsetting on a lot

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Speaker 1: of and I hate that this is the case. And

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Speaker 1: I think that it's like another outcome of our like

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Speaker 1: grape culture and how we see romance in the media

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Speaker 1: and what we expect of more versus what we expect

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Speaker 1: of women, and a lot of other things like that.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, it's ridiculous that I think I cannot

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Speaker 1: text a straight man without my intentions being misinterpreted. So

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Speaker 1: cheers to the Cold maybe ending it one day, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: hopefully we can. We can reach a happy end to

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Speaker 1: the Cold War. In the meantime, Listeners, if you have

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Speaker 1: any thoughts like this, if you have a name for

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Speaker 1: a similar system that you have, please email it to us.

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Speaker 1: Our email is Stuff Media Mom Stuff at i heeart

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Speaker 1: media dot com. You can find us on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: mom stub podcast or Instagram and Stuff I've Never Told You.

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Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, Thank you,

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Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You.

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Speaker 1: Use the production of by Heart Radio. For more podcast

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Speaker 1: on my heart Radio is the heart Radio app, Apple podcast,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.