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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast

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Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Well, the big take

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Speaker 1: story here Shannai Basset Bloomberg News. She covers all things

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Speaker 1: Wall Street fours and how about this headline Goldman legend,

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Speaker 1: crypto star and top banker. Weren't worn of the next

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Speaker 1: big risk? Like we don't have enough to worry about? Shinali,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here in our Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Interactive Broker studio. So you talk to these three big

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Speaker 1: folks on Wall Street? What are their concerns? Who did

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Speaker 1: you speak to and what are their concerns? I spoke

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Speaker 1: to three people. We do this project twice a year,

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Speaker 1: and it's my favorite because there's so many things happening

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Speaker 1: day to day. This is a risk management business, and

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Speaker 1: what you have is former Goldman Sacks investment strategists now

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Speaker 1: Columbia Business School professor to star in her entire tenure.

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Speaker 1: Really worried now and also she was known for being bullish.

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Speaker 1: Joseph Cohin she's worried about the American dream, and the

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Speaker 1: reason she's worried is because she believes that the US

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Speaker 1: has really fallen off and investing in the workforce and

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Speaker 1: protecting its workforce via agencies. Meanwhile, we should just define

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Speaker 1: the American dream. I mean, I think everyone has a

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Speaker 1: different idea of what it is or is there one

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Speaker 1: universally agreed definition of the American dream? She defines it.

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Speaker 1: She defines it in terms of income. She defines it

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Speaker 1: whether every generation is doing better than the previous one.

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Speaker 1: And what we've seen, she says, over the last thirty

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Speaker 1: or forty years, is that media and household income adjusted

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Speaker 1: for inflation has not risen. And you're seeing that in

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Speaker 1: the job market today only compounding with way just not

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Speaker 1: rising as flash fastest inflation. Where do inflationary pressures matter? Again?

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Speaker 1: With the next big risk? Ken Molis, billionaire banker, banker

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Speaker 1: to companies around the world from Saudi Arabia to Hong Kong,

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Speaker 1: is worried about the globalization. He thinks that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of these de global and these forces going to be

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Speaker 1: inflation or even more when you come about when you

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Speaker 1: come to the idea that supply chains are breaking apart

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Speaker 1: across the world and countries will be more responsible for

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Speaker 1: their own supply chains from food to energy to financial assets. Right, well,

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Speaker 1: because we had such a big problem with globalization in

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Speaker 1: the first place, it's not like supply chains are breaking.

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Speaker 1: We're taking them apart, dismantling them and moving them in

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Speaker 1: some cases, right, so that we don't have to rely

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Speaker 1: on Russia or China necessarily to do the work that

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Speaker 1: we need to get done. And he cites this in

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Speaker 1: terms of Germany, for example, being in extreme trouble. But

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Speaker 1: when I asked if this was just about the war,

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, think about Brexit for example, or

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Speaker 1: what's happening in Sri Lanka and the worry about just

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Speaker 1: getting basic resources to two citizens. Let's listen to same

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Speaker 1: bank and Freed also really quickly here let's take listen

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Speaker 1: to what his concern is because it is different than

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Speaker 1: the other two. A lot of the discourse around you know,

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Speaker 1: COVID and pandemics in general has you know, as you served,

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Speaker 1: you know, Franks focused on things like masks by the time.

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Speaker 1: That's the debate. We have already failed at the much

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Speaker 1: more important goal, which is avoiding ending up there in

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Speaker 1: the first place, by having countermeasures ready beforehand, by having

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Speaker 1: early detection systems, by having good ventilation in buildings. The

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Speaker 1: goals to get to a place where outgrages don't become

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Speaker 1: pandemics in the first place, and where we don't have

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Speaker 1: to shut down, uh, you know, the economy, where people

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Speaker 1: don't have to die, where we don't have to make

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Speaker 1: trade offs, and hopefully we can you know, I think

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Speaker 1: spend you know, tens of billions of dollars today to

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Speaker 1: save tens of trillions of dollars. So there you go,

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Speaker 1: Sam being been Free, the cryptocurrency billionaire who is known

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Speaker 1: for shoring up his industry. He's spending a lot of

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Speaker 1: his personal capital, philanthropic efforts, charitable efforts really towards preventing

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Speaker 1: the next pandemic, which he worries will be deadlier and

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Speaker 1: further cripple already decimated economies around the world. But all

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Speaker 1: three of these folks comes down to investment and how governments,

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Speaker 1: particularly the US government investors. All Right, So the big

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Speaker 1: take story on the terminal on the Bloomberg dot com

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Speaker 1: slash big take you had Abby Joseph Cohen, former government

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Speaker 1: sex strategists now Columbia, Sam Bank, Ben Fried who was

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Speaker 1: the ft X chief executive officer, and Ken molis Uh

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Speaker 1: CEO of his Molis and Company big investment bank or

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Speaker 1: some cool thoughts there, all right, So, Shnale, we've just

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Speaker 1: gotten through three four days of the big bank earnings here?

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Speaker 1: Is there when you talk to investors? Is there a

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Speaker 1: takeaway here that we're getting from these names? Caution, caution

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Speaker 1: and more caution. David Solomon is addressing investors right now

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Speaker 1: on a call and they're asking, you know, are we

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Speaker 1: just going to see a huge pullback and risk among

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Speaker 1: corporate borrowers, investors willing to put money to work and

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Speaker 1: risk your assets? And he's saying that people just have

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Speaker 1: to get used to the new price of things. Is

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Speaker 1: there loan growth out there? Are people taking on debt

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Speaker 1: to fund new businesses, new cap backs. It just seems

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Speaker 1: like I just sold a million credit card. Essentially, they

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Speaker 1: just brought on a million new clients in the last

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Speaker 1: quarter a loan and so there is some signs of

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Speaker 1: optimism here, but again they also lost three million dollars

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Speaker 1: in a loan book, as Fred's widen. So there's a

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Speaker 1: cost to doing business for these banks here. Also the

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Speaker 1: credit thing could be seen from the other direction, right

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Speaker 1: like if you need to get a credit card to

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Speaker 1: fill up your car and feed your family, which you

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Speaker 1: used to be able to do with your bank account balance,

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Speaker 1: that's a problematic. Real quick point here. Bank of America

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Speaker 1: only nine percent of its clients are below six sixty

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Speaker 1: and credit score that was twelve a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that Bank of America has less risky clients.

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Speaker 1: It has shedded the riskies, said the risky and then

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Speaker 1: if you're a riskier borrower in America, where do you go?

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Speaker 1: And the investment bankers? Tough quarter for them, right, yes,

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Speaker 1: for the underwriters. But Goldman sachs Is advisory fees were

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Speaker 1: one point two billion dollars, Paul, how do you make

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Speaker 1: one point two billion dollars environment length is? That's double

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Speaker 1: what you saw at Morgan Stanley. It's insane, wow, because

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Speaker 1: you don't usually see that disparity between Goldman and We're

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Speaker 1: in Stanley on the banking side, and that tells you

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Speaker 1: even though they said they're slowing the hiring velocity here,

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Speaker 1: They're going to be very precise and how they do that.

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Speaker 1: All right, good stuff. Shali Bastak, she covers all things

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Speaker 1: Wall Street for US, got the Big Take story. You

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Speaker 1: can check that out on Bloomberg uh dot com, slash

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Speaker 1: Big Take or n I Big Take on the Bloomberg terminal.

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Speaker 1: Those Big Take stories are awesome, Snali, big in depth

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Speaker 1: reporting there, as we see almost every day from the

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Speaker 1: Big Take folks here. And we also got a summary

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Speaker 1: of the big investment banks reporting earnings, and a Shnally noted,

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Speaker 1: probably the takeaway is caution. Samir Samana, senior global market

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Speaker 1: strategist for Wells Fargo, joins A Sames also a former

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Speaker 1: fixed income trader, and that's where I want to start, Samir,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at my I end go function on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal Corporate, the Bloomberg US corporate total return down

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Speaker 1: thirteen point four percent year to date. What are you

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Speaker 1: guys doing in the fixing co market? You know, so

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Speaker 1: for much of the year we were kind of been

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Speaker 1: playing defensive, you know, kind of strategy, so kind of

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Speaker 1: going shorter on the duration. We've been most unfavorable on

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Speaker 1: long term fixed income. More recently we downgraded credit UM

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Speaker 1: too unfavorable again with the thinking data slowdown will probably

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Speaker 1: impact spreads and there's still well off kind of their

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Speaker 1: historical wides, so there's probably still an opportunity to kind

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Speaker 1: of shy away from that UM. And then now that

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Speaker 1: you know it seems like the Feds you know, gotten

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Speaker 1: some religion around you know, rate increases UM, we actually

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Speaker 1: took long term fix and come back to neutral UM.

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Speaker 1: We think at this point there's probably some two way risk,

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Speaker 1: especially if the recession were to to show up sooner

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Speaker 1: and be a little bit deeper than people expect. So

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Speaker 1: we we have taken uh, you know, some of that

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Speaker 1: duration you know out just a little bit UM again

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be you know, leaning out over our skis. But

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Speaker 1: those are a couple of things that we've we've we've

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Speaker 1: done recently. Also, I think it's worth noting munis right,

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Speaker 1: especially when you look at the relatives to corporates and

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Speaker 1: relatives to treasuries UM, those seem like a pretty interesting

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Speaker 1: place to to put some money, especially if you're in

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Speaker 1: a higher tax bracket. You're preaching to the choir some here,

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Speaker 1: but I cannot get like colleague, here, Matt Miller to

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Speaker 1: really jump in both feet into the muni's. I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine the words munis and interesting in the same sense

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Speaker 1: to be to be fair, right, you just buy that stuff,

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Speaker 1: put it away and collect coupons, which is good, yep, um,

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Speaker 1: but nobody trades it. Uh what about equities some here?

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Speaker 1: I mean there has been a lot of the big

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Speaker 1: bears have been saying that we're halfway through this yet.

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Speaker 1: But um, if everybody's freaked out, isn't that the time

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Speaker 1: to buy? It's probably a good bit of damage that's

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Speaker 1: already been done, you know, kind of like fixing come.

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Speaker 1: We've been playing defense on the equity side too, from

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Speaker 1: the standpoint of you know, we've been going up in

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Speaker 1: market cap from small, stimids and large, and we've been

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Speaker 1: going from developed markets and emerging markets to the US.

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Speaker 1: So you know, those part of this yere things have

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Speaker 1: played you know, pretty nicely in our favor. So we

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, we have some some room maybe

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Speaker 1: to to be opportunistic being kind of in that defensive position. Um.

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Speaker 1: So you know, as we look towards probably you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of a recovery into next year, I think we'll

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Speaker 1: maybe kick the tires on some of the areas where

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Speaker 1: we're unfavorable, like small caps, emerging markets and developed markets,

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Speaker 1: but we think it's much too soon, so stay kind

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Speaker 1: of in higher cap, higher quality areas. On the sector side,

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Speaker 1: we're probably a little bit more balanced again with the

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Speaker 1: thinking that um, you know, we like energy, we like healthcare,

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Speaker 1: we like tech. We think they have some you know,

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Speaker 1: characteristics that could help them do well. Um, energy is

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Speaker 1: kind of your statflationary play healthcare if we tip into

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Speaker 1: a recession, and then tech kind of has that secular

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Speaker 1: growth aspect to it, um, and we've paired it against

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Speaker 1: an unfavorable to discretionary. Right, So if you you kind

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Speaker 1: of part and parcel growth, you've got tech, cons and discretionary,

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Speaker 1: we're overweight tech, we're neutral cons, and we're unfavorable and discretionary. Um.

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Speaker 1: We're also unfavorable on rates and on industrials. So you know,

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Speaker 1: we've basically tried to kind of barbel with portfolio where

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Speaker 1: we're not getting too defensive because again, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: with rates still low, equities are you know, still a

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Speaker 1: reasonable evaluation. So we've tried to be more balanced than

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Speaker 1: than outright defensive. You know, it feels semear. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've been in this game for thirty plus years, but

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Speaker 1: it feels like the confidence, the sentiment in the marketplace

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Speaker 1: today is just really bad. Whether it's a recession, whether

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Speaker 1: it's in inflation, uh, interest rates, It's almost kind of

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Speaker 1: gets me to the point of I haven't seen it

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Speaker 1: this bad in a long time. It almost makes me

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Speaker 1: feel like, maybe actually buy in here. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: not a bad idea to stick to a plan, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, if your dollar cost averaging, or if you've

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Speaker 1: got cash flows coming in and your continue to allocate

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Speaker 1: to equities, I mean, I think, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: there's a good point to be made about you know, look,

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Speaker 1: we started this journey at hundred. We started this journey

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Speaker 1: in January. We're now closer to thirty eight hundred, forty hundred,

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Speaker 1: and we're already in the middle part of July. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, if you think about bear markets lasting

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Speaker 1: a little over a year and you see them kind

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Speaker 1: of draw down about thirty, you could argue you that

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Speaker 1: you're about you know, a half to two thirds of

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Speaker 1: the way on both price and time. So you know,

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Speaker 1: again it's not a bad idea to stick to a

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Speaker 1: plan and ta casine to allocate equities. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: nobody should take what we're saying as as a reason

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Speaker 1: to avoid them all together. I think you know, what

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Speaker 1: we try to do, you know, with respect to our

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Speaker 1: investment professionals, in our clients, is just make sure that

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Speaker 1: they're not surprised. And I think, you know, from that standpoint,

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Speaker 1: I think what we're at least telling them is, you know, look,

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Speaker 1: as these rate hikes, you know, continue to kind of

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Speaker 1: pile up and work with the lag that they normally

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Speaker 1: work with, you know, they're going to have much of

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Speaker 1: their impact in the second half of this year, and

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Speaker 1: so you know, it's just hard to to say that

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Speaker 1: you're not going to see a shoe drop with restrict

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Speaker 1: to earnings, right. I mean, you've got consensus still, you know,

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Speaker 1: showing growth for this year and next year and the

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Speaker 1: year after that. So I guess earnings do go to

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Speaker 1: the sky after all. Um, So you know, until those

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Speaker 1: expectations come down, it's just hard to say that, you know,

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Speaker 1: stocks can can do well. I appreciate the sentiment piece

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Speaker 1: of it, but sentiment sometimes can be a little bit

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Speaker 1: too jumpy, right, Alright, awesome stuff. Samir thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us giving us your thoughts here as we

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Speaker 1: try to navigate these markets rules, certainly for equity and

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Speaker 1: fixed income investors. Samir Samana, senior Global market strategists at

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Speaker 1: Wells Fargo, join us here giving us his thoughts on

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Speaker 1: these markets. All right, let's talk E s G. Environmental, social,

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Speaker 1: and governance. That has been one of the big big

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Speaker 1: themes and investments. I'm going to say over the last

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Speaker 1: ten of fifteen years here in the U s and

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Speaker 1: maybe even longer than that in Europe. And it's so

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Speaker 1: big that Bloomberg Intelligence, the investment research arm of Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: has multiple E s G analysts and our lead E

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Speaker 1: s G analysts, Shaheen, contractor, she covers all things s

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Speaker 1: G for Bloomberg Intelligence. She joins us here in a

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Interactive broker studio. She heen. It's just been the

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Speaker 1: rage people like, Oh, E s G investing. I have

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Speaker 1: to have exposure to it. You've been telling me this

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Speaker 1: this for years. Talk to us about kind of where

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Speaker 1: we are today because everywhere you look in the marketplace, equities,

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Speaker 1: fixed income down double digits. How is E s G

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Speaker 1: investing and the flows into history how's that behaving this year?

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Speaker 1: Suppose this year has been particularly interesting for E S

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Speaker 1: SHE especially after all the growth we've seen in the

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Speaker 1: last few years, and this year has actually been one

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Speaker 1: of the few have you've seen a bit of a

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Speaker 1: slow down. So if you consider E S G E

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Speaker 1: T S as you know, it's just a slice of

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Speaker 1: the pie. Assets at the end of the second quarter

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Speaker 1: with about four dred billion about decline over the last year. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so it's just assets in E S G in E

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Speaker 1: T F rappers, right, not the price of the E

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Speaker 1: T s because they've come down more than that. Correct,

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Speaker 1: So that asset decline, you're right, is largely because of

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Speaker 1: market contraction, but we have to recognize that flow is

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Speaker 1: slowed more fresc than on. Yes, I mean my question

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Speaker 1: is has the especially the environmental side of it. Has

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Speaker 1: that been hurt or helped by um the inflation combined

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Speaker 1: with the war in Ukraine, which amplifies the inflation, right,

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Speaker 1: because either the lack of fossil fuels out of Russia

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Speaker 1: pushes us more towards wind and solar, like we've got

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Speaker 1: to build that out faster, but at the same time

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Speaker 1: we're also using all the coal that we can and

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Speaker 1: maybe turning nuclear reactors back on. Yeah. Yeah, so answer

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Speaker 1: a question definitely, hoot. And that's because hes she funds

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Speaker 1: tend to be overweight deck on the way energy, as

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Speaker 1: you said, and that's not been so great so far.

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Speaker 1: To right, deck has been particularly challenged. Energy has has

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Speaker 1: sort of skyrocketed. I mean, you're looking at it from

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Speaker 1: an investment perspective, but what about maybe a policy perspective.

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Speaker 1: It's it's boosted because even though now we're using dirty,

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Speaker 1: dirty coal. Um, you know, politicians are saying we really

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Speaker 1: we need to build these wind farms, or we need

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Speaker 1: to invest more in solar energy or solar capacentator production,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. So over the long term, yes, this hopefully

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Speaker 1: will accelerate a shift to cleaner energy over the long term,

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Speaker 1: especially to reduce Russia sort of dependency on oil and gas. Um.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at short term performance, if you

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Speaker 1: ask me, Hot continued for the rest of the hot. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So talk to us about just, um, where's the demand

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Speaker 1: coming for E s G investments? Because when I first

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Speaker 1: started hearing about E s G, it was probably more

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Speaker 1: than a decade ago, and it was from European institutional

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Speaker 1: investors that I would go visit. They would say, I'll

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Speaker 1: be talking to them about Disney and they would ask

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Speaker 1: me what the E S G score was, And I said,

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Speaker 1: what are you even talking about? I mean, it's Mickey Mouse.

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Speaker 1: How how bad can he be? Um? But now it's

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Speaker 1: become more of a thing here in the US. Where

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Speaker 1: are we kind of in kind of the development of SG.

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Speaker 1: So if you think about assets Europe, you're right. Europe

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Speaker 1: has been you know, the traditional sort of the heavyweight,

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Speaker 1: but the US has got up. US assets have seen

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Speaker 1: It's gone from about se as a ship to about

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Speaker 1: which is quite substantial. But if you share total invested assets, okay, okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: but if you consider where these assets are coming from,

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Speaker 1: I would still describe it as very institutional and still

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Speaker 1: very European if that makes sense, but definitely institutional and nature. So, um,

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Speaker 1: we focus on the E, the S and the G.

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Speaker 1: Is that improving over this year? I mean, so it

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Speaker 1: seems like, well, here's a government story for you, Matt

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Speaker 1: Porsche is come in public, right, and that's not a

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Speaker 1: good G thing because their governance there. It seems like

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Speaker 1: all the shareholders like if I'm gonna be a public shareholder.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting like almost no rights there in that company

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Speaker 1: because the rights are sticking with VW and all their

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Speaker 1: crazy shareholders have a family that owns all of that

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Speaker 1: family and right family. So what am I getting, Well,

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Speaker 1: you're hopefully you're going to participate in future growth. So

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Speaker 1: I'm tying an E S G with an I P

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Speaker 1: I P O big. I guess you probably don't focus

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Speaker 1: on that kind of government. We do? We do, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we do. I think governance has always been sort of

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Speaker 1: a stronghold. It's been the E N S that have

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Speaker 1: sort of picked up an attention, particularly the I think

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Speaker 1: the S has picked up in terms of attention a

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Speaker 1: lot after COVID, but that's really been only in the US.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you ask me, the whole Tesla thing

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Speaker 1: is really a G issue, though everybody keeps confusing it.

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Speaker 1: So so what is your view or what is the

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Speaker 1: E S G view community's view of Tesla? Yes, SHE

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Speaker 1: community is very divided. I can tell you my view.

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Speaker 1: So my view is that Tesla fits well within an

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Speaker 1: E or an impact for you know, one that creates

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Speaker 1: externality on the world. But if you ask me E

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Speaker 1: S SHE in terms of risk mitigation. Tesla's g does

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Speaker 1: not put it in that bucket, and I wouldn't consider

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Speaker 1: it as in any fund, but everybody does. Right, it's divided,

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Speaker 1: it's it's the most hotly debated thing. But yes, a

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Speaker 1: lot of funds too because MSc I does have it

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Speaker 1: as a high E s SHE scoring company, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of e sc et F tend to be MSCI based,

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Speaker 1: so it ends up in many funds. By the way,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the debates in the E s G community,

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Speaker 1: we had on Engine number one recently and you know, um,

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Speaker 1: they are the I guess activist fund that got board

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Speaker 1: seats and two board seats at Exon. You wouldn't normally

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Speaker 1: think of Xon in an E s G fund. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to hold Xon because they're doing all the polluting.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, maybe you do want to hold

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Speaker 1: x On so you can control the future of the company. Correct.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's sort of the new angle of

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Speaker 1: proxy voting and you know, owning a company to be

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Speaker 1: able to vote your feet if that makes sense and

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Speaker 1: create change, and that's really the strategy behind what Engine

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Speaker 1: one is doing. Then you vote e t F, they're

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Speaker 1: just going to hold the SMP five and engage with

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Speaker 1: all the companies. So it really depends on what you're

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Speaker 1: trying to achieve. When so energy companies, they're kind of

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Speaker 1: the poster, at least for me, of you know, an

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Speaker 1: E s G like a poor score or a week

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Speaker 1: score on E s G. But some people have said

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Speaker 1: these guys are really particularly the European energy companies, are

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Speaker 1: really trying to go green, and so that might you know, say, hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe you think about him as an E s G

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Speaker 1: compliant company earlier to rape the Earth of all her

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Speaker 1: resources in the greenest possible way. So so fun, I

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Speaker 1: think to your point, when I think of you know,

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Speaker 1: E s G, I don't think of it as being

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Speaker 1: you know, energy is bad and this is good. I

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Speaker 1: think it's more within an industry, what are the better

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Speaker 1: performing companies, because otherwise then you just end up with

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Speaker 1: what you have today right on the way energy oh

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Speaker 1: waits something and you don't have diversification benefits. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of what I think. I mean, I look at an

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Speaker 1: E s G fund, it kind of looks like a

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Speaker 1: tech fund to me, Teken healthcare fund and mean industry agnostic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah there you go, all right, chicken contractor e s

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Speaker 1: G Research channels for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us lie of

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Speaker 1: in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. We'll talk sustainable energy here.

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Speaker 1: We can do that with pair Reg Narson, CEO of

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Speaker 1: Climate Rock. Climate Rock is a nastack listed stocks c

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Speaker 1: l R c U is a symbol to punch in

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Speaker 1: on your Bloomberg terminal. It's a blank check company looking

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Speaker 1: to get into the sustainable energy biz. Per Thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us here. Tell us about Climate Rock.

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Speaker 1: What are you guys looking to do? Yeah, thank you

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Speaker 1: for thank you for having me. And you know we

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Speaker 1: we are sustainable energy. UM. We chose the route of

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Speaker 1: the of the s back market to list the company

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Speaker 1: that would invest into sustainable energy meaning renewable energy so

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Speaker 1: wind and solar, hydro electric power, Global Investment mandate UM

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Speaker 1: in a time where you know, climate chains and so

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Speaker 1: it's very high on the agenda, and also where innergy

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Speaker 1: security at least six months have become very high in

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Speaker 1: the agenda as well. So the combination of of these

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Speaker 1: sort of major UH GEO political and and and and

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Speaker 1: do you trains in the market is suggesting that you know,

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Speaker 1: we are in a in a good spot for that

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Speaker 1: many opportunities to do with the capsule be raised Back

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Speaker 1: in late April early May, UM, we raised seventy five

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Speaker 1: million plus a bit extra, so close to eighty UM.

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Speaker 1: And I'm looking to um acquire company or companies in

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Speaker 1: the in in this in this sector that's growing across

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Speaker 1: all the continents. So per I mean, you came public

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Speaker 1: via blank check at in April dollars to share. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of where the stock is right now. What is

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Speaker 1: your expectation in terms of the timing potentially getting you know,

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Speaker 1: a defining transaction done for you guys, Well, I think

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Speaker 1: I think we will be in a position to do

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Speaker 1: something in the near future with a with an idea

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Speaker 1: to close that in the wintertime. I mean, it would

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Speaker 1: be great for us if we can close before before

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Speaker 1: the Christmas season sets in. But but you know, it's

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Speaker 1: certainly something that will be done within that twelve months

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Speaker 1: that we set ourselves as a target to to conclude

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Speaker 1: our bustance combination. How much does it matter, um that

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Speaker 1: markets have tanked this year and how much of a

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Speaker 1: problem would it be if they continue to fall at

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Speaker 1: the same pace. Well, it's in's in general, it obviously

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00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: makes a big difference. I think, you know, when we

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Speaker 1: look at our specifically, you know, we did at what

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Speaker 1: I would call a relatively small I p o UM.

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00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: That means that we are relatively speaking less exposed to

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Speaker 1: any redemptions. UM. We are looking at potential targets that

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00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: would create a very attractive market value on top of

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00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: of where we are UM, and we're looking to executed

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00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: transaction where you know, there will be as little casts

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00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 1: going out of the deal as possible, so everybody stays

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00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: in in in the stock, and therefore we have to

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00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: raise less capital uh and then execute this UM. The

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00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: reason for that is that we see this potential business

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00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: combination being a growth stock, and we believe that we

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00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: have opportunities to grow significantly after the dese bag UM

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00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: and and that would give us the opportunity to raise

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00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,239
Speaker 1: various sources of capital now at the same time, not

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00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 1: being an ip or tech stock, but being renewable energy start.

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00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: We also expect to be able to use a business

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00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: combination with a cast glowing business to allow ourselves to

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00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: have a sort of relatively conservative combination equity and debt.

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00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: So we we position ourselves to not having to raise

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00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: too much cast and raise the cast through a combination

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00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: of equity and debt, and at the same time probably

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00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: also bout being in in in a sector which is

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Speaker 1: one of the I will call the mega trends in

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00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: the market position us to have you know, um less

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00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 1: redemption than average. So renewables is a broad broad space

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Speaker 1: here where specifically are you guys most interested in? So

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Speaker 1: I think that two ways of looking at it geographically,

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00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 1: and actually that three geographically sector wise. And then where

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Speaker 1: do you want to be in the value gain the industry?

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Speaker 1: And and we certainly see a business that will combine

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00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: some operating cash flows from service income with some activities,

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00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: uh you know, in development, so that we are bringing

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Speaker 1: a combination of resilient long term cash flows with the

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00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: off side of of development across solar and wind. Mainly,

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Speaker 1: I believe is where you know, you can safely be

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Speaker 1: at the moment. We don't like to go into sectors

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Speaker 1: where we're taking too much pizza risk, but we could

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Speaker 1: go into hydrogen. It's an interesting sector. It's a very

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00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: hot topic. It's also an area that is UM you know,

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00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 1: has a real demand UM just taking industries, you know

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Speaker 1: that the consumption in global industry hydrogen is about two

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Speaker 1: on a billion dollars a year, so if you completely

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00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: replace that the green hydrogen, that's a massive opportunity for

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Speaker 1: for comp fungus. Al Right, Pat, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. Pere Regnarson their CEO of Climate Rock Tick

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00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: or c l R. See you. Thanks for listening to

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00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to

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00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

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00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three.

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00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: Pet On Ball Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney.

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00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at

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00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio