WEBVTT - Remote Work and Senate Practices 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:05.119 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast. Catch us Saturdays 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.280 at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.479 the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:13.760 on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.280 Welcome to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. This week we 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.400 look at working from home for working moms. It looked 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.680 like a new way for working mothers to strike a 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.960 balance between a career and family, but now it may 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.920 be turning into a dead end, and one senator has 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:33.919 placed a whole non military promotions. We're going to look 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.160 at what this means for the Senate as a whole, 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:40.360 and we'll discuss the incredible shrinking office not just that 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.400 more people want to work from home, but office space 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:47.480 itself is dropping, a trend that actually started before the pandemic. 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:50.600 But we begin with the big disconnect of twenty twenty three, 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.960 at least where the economy is concerned, because many predicted 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:56.320 that the big economic story for this year would be 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:00.600 a recession. President Biden's top economic advisor, the Director of 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.120 the National Economic Council, Isle Brainerd, is a former vice 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.039 chair of the Federal Reserve. In last month, she discussed 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.320 the risk of recession in the near term. 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:14.920 We are seeing strong ongoing growth with inflation coming down. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.800 We're seeing unemployment staying below four percent twenty months in 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.959 a row now with inflation coming down, and so those 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:29.199 data which have been sustained now for a relatively long 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.959 period of time, suggests that there's ongoing resilience there. 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.920 So we haven't seen a recession. There is no expectation 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.080 of a recession, and the resilience of the economy has 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:44.039 economists and analysts believing that if there is a recession, 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.600 the recovery will be swift. So the story, the disconnect 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.840 is between the consumer sentiment and consumer behavior. Let's bring 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.640 in Betsy Stevenson, a Bloomberg opinion columnist and an associate 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:59.320 professor of public policy and economics at the University of Michigan. 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.840 She was also on the President's Council of Economic Advisors 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.600 and was the chief economist at the Department of Labor. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.280 Tell us what is going on? What is this disconnect? 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.200 Well, you know, when a lot of people hear this, 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.280 they're like, of course, people are mad. Prices are high, 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:17.880 They're higher than they were in twenty nineteen, and they 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.680 don't like that, And the fact that prices are high 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:25.200 and that makes people mad is not the puzzle. It's 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.520 that they are spending more than they were spending in 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.800 twenty nineteen, and not just more as in you know, 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:34.880 they have to spend more to make up for inflation, 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.720 but they're buying even more stuff. They're you know, treating 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:45.079 themselves a consumption spending adjusted for inflation is very very high. 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.680 So they're spending as if they think it's good economic times. 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:50.560 But then when we ask them, how do you feel 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:54.200 about the economy, they are in the dumps, you know, 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.760 as low in this period as they were in some 0:02:57.840 --> 0:02:59.399 parts of the two thousand and eight recession. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.560 Be more of a reflection of a political affiliation. If 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.280 you're complaining about the economy and at the same time 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.320 you're spending more money than you've ever spent before, not 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.600 because of inflation, but because you want more stuff. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:18.800 So economists tend to believe in what we call revealed preference. 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.160 So this is where this disconnect is very puzzling to economists, 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.480 because you're telling me you think things are bad, but 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.400 you're spending as if you think things are good. So 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.680 which is it? Is it? What you're saying out loud 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:34.880 or is it your behavior. One of the things that 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:40.240 could explain that kind of difference would be if actually 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.600 you think the economy's fine, that's why you're spending like 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:48.160 it's fine, but you're telling people who ask you what 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:53.080 you're telling the pollsters that you hate the economy because 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:58.520 you're a Republican and the Democrats in power, and that 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:02.200 you know, makes you hate the economy no matter what's happening. 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:06.600 And in fact, there's recent research that's come out that 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:11.000 shows that that can explain about forty percent of the disconnect. 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:17.520 So we do have a partisan veil that affects our perceptions. Luckily, 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.240 that partisan veil doesn't affect our behavior. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:25.160 So we have seen disconnect like this before. That's an 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.839 historical perspective that would go along with this. 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.760 Such a good question. You just ask, what we see 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.920 is not as big of a disconnect as we're seeing 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.719 right now. That's why it can only explain about forty 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:43.159 percent of the disconnect. But what we do typically see 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.480 is if I ask you how the economy is doing, 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.520 and then I look at your your spending on average, 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.360 those things have been pretty well lined up. But if 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.400 I then also had asked you, you know, what party 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.880 do you identify with. What you'll see is that the 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:08.000 Republicans are more optimistic about the economy when there's a 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.120 Republican in power, you know, even when the economy is 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.279 doing sort of poorly, and that Democrats would be less 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:19.120 optimistic about it, and the reverse would be true if 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.840 a Democrat was in power. So, you know, we don't 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.520 see is the kind of disconnect we're seeing right now 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.880 on average, but we do see that there is somewhat 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.280 of a disconnect. And so some people have argued that 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:36.880 it's the increase in partisanship that has caused this big disconnect. 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.920 And we are talking with Bloomberg columnist Betsy Stevenson about 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:45.960 the big disconnect between consumer sentiment and consumer behavior. The 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.080 money illusion, which you mentioned in your column. What is that? 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:50.279 How does that apply here? 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.440 You know, when you get a raise, everybody wants to 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.120 think that that raise is because of your hard work, 0:05:58.040 --> 0:05:59.880 and so you want your income to go up. You 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:01.960 want to get that raise, but you don't want the 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.960 prices to go up. Now, sometimes we get a raised 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.919 because of our hard work, but a lot of the 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.599 times we get a raised just because of inflation, and 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.960 inflation is when all prices in the economy are going 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:21.480 up on average, and that usually includes the prices of workers. 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.640 So that that's one of the reasons why we can 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.200 never reverse inflation. And that's something I think people really hate. 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:34.280 But if we wanted to take all prices in the economy, 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.520 you know, down twenty percent on average, we'd all have 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.480 to take a twenty percent pay cut to do it, 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.600 as well as as cutting the prices of the things 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.279 we paid for, because it get you know, it's that 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.280 idea that you know, if I walk into a grocery 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.800 store and I hand over one hundred dollars for my groceries, 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.520 well that's one hundred dollars of revenue for the grocery store, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:02.120 and the grocery store uses that money to pay its workers. 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.680 So think about a mom and pop store. You know, 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.720 they're they're paying themselves and they're paying for their they're 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:12.120 paying their suppliers. So if you're paying more, somebody's getting more. 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.400 Is it the supplier, is it the mom and pop? 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:19.280 What money illusion is the fact that we focus on 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.360 what are called nominal prices, that's the sticker price for 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.960 some things, and we tend to try to think about 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:32.280 real prices, meaning adjusted for inflation for other things. And 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:37.679 that means that we can we can be angry about 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.600 the prices while not being angry about what that has 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:44.120 meant for. Say, are our house prices right? And I 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.600 have yet to hear somebody in this economy say inflation 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:52.600 is out of control, my stock portfolio is up too much, 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:57.040 my house price is up too much. It's this ridiculous inflation. 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.000 That stuff needs to come down. My house price better 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.440 fall twenty percent. Right. Nobody's saying that. People who want 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.120 to buy a house who aren't in the market are 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.480 saying that, but not the people who who own a house. 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:13.040 So we tend to focus on the way inflation harms us, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.800 and then we try to ignore the way it benefits us. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.840 I'm wondering how long this disconnect can last, or does 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.120 it matter how long it lasts. Is it something that's sustainable? 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.840 Is it something that folks will eventually grow out of, 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:30.600 the pendulum will swing. 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.679 Even that's such a good question. I think there's a 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:36.960 there are two distinct things, which is how long does 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.839 it keep distorting people's behavior? And I think people would eventually, 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.960 you know, get used to too higher prices. You know, 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:49.920 I think my grandparents probably never stopped complaining about the 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.280 fact that, you know, they used to only have to 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:56.200 pay five cents for a coke. But I think that 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:01.880 they probably were buying as you know, they were making 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:06.040 buying decisions about coke at the in the late you know, 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.520 and at the end of their life, as if they 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.920 didn't have money illusion, But they certainly were still complaining 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:17.040 about it. So you know that money illusion can affect 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:21.640 our perception that things have gotten worse, I think, for 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.400 a long time. And it probably depends a lot on 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.400 sort of how old you are when these things happen 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:35.760 and whether to be To be clear, inflation hurts some 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:41.800 people while it benefits others. It tends to be very redistributed, redistributative, 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.280 and if we look in our economy over the last 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:49.800 couple of years, the people who change jobs got huge 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.439 wage increases, So those were some of the people who 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:57.679 who won, but not everybody wanted to or could change jobs, 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.520 and the people who stayed in their jobs ended up 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.400 really losing out. Their wages didn't keep up with inflation. 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.760 If you look at union members, their wages weren't keeping 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.000 up with inflation. That's why we've seen so many big 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:16.200 union battles like the UAW. Their wages had eroded really 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.240 substantially due to inflation because they didn't have a cost 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.200 of living adjustment in their contract. So people who are 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:27.280 hurt by inflation may feel angry about it, you know, 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.560 for the rest of their lives. The question will be 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:36.440 really around when people sort of adjust to the new 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:42.000 price level and go about making decisions without giving a 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.800 lot of thought to the fact that prices are higher 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.400 today than they were ten years ago. 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.239 Thank you, Betsy. Betsy Stevenson is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.600 and an associate professor of public policy and economics at 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.360 the University of Michigan. Coming up, we look at how 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.400 working from home has shifted from a new path for 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.880 working moms to possibly a dead end. You're listening to 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:04.840 Bloomberg Opinion. 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:17.600 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast. Catch us Saturdays 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.760 at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.960 the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.280 on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.680 You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris, and you 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.240 might have thought that remote work or work from home 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.319 would make things easier for working mothers, but more often 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:40.880 we're finding more workplaces retreating from remote work options and 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:42.839 now a push of course to get more people back 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.160 in the office. Let's talk about what this all means 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:50.199 with Beth coo At, a Bloomberg opinion columnist covering corporate America. Beth, 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.000 are there more flexibilities now for working moms? 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.320 So this is a really interesting question because I think 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.800 we did see during the pandemic a lot of companies 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.000 started to offer more flexibility and remote work for everybody, 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.360 and that was a great, a huge perk, a huge 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.120 boon working moms all of a sudden could kind of 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.240 juggle their lives in a way that was a lot easier. 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.720 But I think the issue here is the way working 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.320 from home is perceived. So the perk might still be there, 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.240 but it's the perception I think that is really the issue. 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:23.800 The perception being that if you're working from home, you're 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.320 not really working exactly exactly. 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.160 So I think what everybody was working from home, it 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.959 was like, great, this, we can do this, this is fine. 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.120 Every It was kind of kind of leveled the playing field. 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:36.200 Now that companies have started to call people back to 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.160 the office, people who have sort of continued to take 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:43.440 advantage of working from home, are you know, outraging called 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.440 lazy by big corporate America CEOs. You know that they're 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.200 not working as hard, that they can't really be leaders. 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.360 So so even though the option for them still might 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.800 be there, it doesn't do them a whole lot of good. 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.280 If this is kind of the stereotype that's continuing to 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:01.880 be perpetuated, is. 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:05.400 That the only stereotype that you might be encountering as 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:10.040 a working mom, specifically obviously working from home. There's that 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.440 stereotype that's always kind of been there. If you're working 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.840 from home or remote working, you're not in the office, 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.040 the manager doesn't have eyes on you, so there's some 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.800 question about your productivity. Is it worse if you are 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:20.600 a working mother? 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:23.960 I well, it's sort of a double edged story for 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.160 working moms, which is often the case. 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:26.520 Right. 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:28.520 So on the one hand, if you're at the office 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.280 too much, people are like, well, where I wind you 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.120 with your children? Like, I think that is actually a 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:37.040 question that people ask, and you know, are they good? 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:39.760 How can they possibly be a good mom? If they're 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:40.480 here all the time. 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:42.880 And then on the flip side is if you're not there, 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:44.680 if you are trying to juggle and make it work 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.760 and work flexible hours, then the question is are you dedicated? 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.200 You know so, I think it's a really fine line 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:52.800 for a lot of women. 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.520 Didn't We learn during the pandemic that working from home 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.640 does work. A lot of places were able to transition 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:00.599 quite seamlessly. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:02.200 One would have thought that. 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.120 You know, we saw record profits, but a lot of 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.480 companies during the pandemic. It seems though, that this really 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:13.440 was a perk that companies offered in a tight labor market, 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.880 right we saw you know, employment, unemployment was record low. 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.520 We just it was such a hot job market. And 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.960 now that things have pulled back a little, it seems 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.480 that this was really not some big structural change, that 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.120 it really was kind of a tool that companies used 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.440 to lure workers, and a lot of them have walked 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:30.720 it back. 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.480 Is this also a generational thing? As younger workers are 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:39.680 coming up through the corporate workplace and they become managers, 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.800 will they fall into that trap of believing that people 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.720 who are working from home aren't really or will that 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.200 be where we start to see more working from home 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.800 actually come to fruition and help those working moms. 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.520 Yeah, I do think there is a generational shift here, right. 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.280 A lot of the people who are at the top 0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:59.640 kind of grew up this way, coming into the office. 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.320 This is how they learned to do their jobs, and 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.960 it's hard for them to see another way. So I 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.920 do think that a shift in leadership as a next 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.560 generation rises could really help this. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.680 You know, one thing I didn't notice. 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.520 Is that a lot of women are kind of cutting 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.520 their own paths right rather, they're leaving those jobs. They're 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.080 saying this isn't for me, and they're starting their own companies. 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.800 They're they're becoming independent contractors. And you know, in the 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.440 companies that these women start, maybe there's. 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:27.960 An answer there too. 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.880 Maybe they will kind of, you know, implement some of 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.920 these policies that we know really do help women. 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.520 And we are talking with Bloomberg Opinion columnist Beth Kelat 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.200 about the push to return to the office and what 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.360 that means for working moms. Let's get a historical perspective here, Beth, 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.800 How is this different than it has always been for 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:47.600 working moms? 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.120 So I think, you know, it's always been the juggle, right, 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.960 it's always but there was no flexibility, so you had 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.080 to you had to be at the office nine to 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.800 five and you kind of had to be available for 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:00.640 twenty four to seven. And this is I should be clear, 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.360 this isn't for women really climbing the corporate ladder, right, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:08.240 And a lot of women then chose, you know, either 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.440 you opted out, it was too hard, you couldn't make 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:15.400 it work, or you know, you just kind of slugged 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:16.760 it out you thought through it. 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.400 And I think, you know, we know, even even in. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:24.800 Households where both both you know, husband and wife are 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:29.600 really but you know, partners are both working and in 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:33.680 really competitive fields, very demanding fields, it's still women who 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.880 end up doing more of the household work. 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.040 So I think that hasn't changed. 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.440 We've seen that men have definitely taken on more household work, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:46.200 but still women are doing more the majority of it or. 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:46.640 More of it. 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:51.160 So you know, I think here we people thought working 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:55.400 from home maybe could be a solution, and it really 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.240 has helped. Like we we know, this research shows us 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.440 that when women can choose how and when they do 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.560 their jobs, that is a huge tool in closing the 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:06.440 gender cap. 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.040 When companies are able to accommodate working moms. How does 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:12.240 that help them? 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.280 Well, First of all, turnover is a huge issue. Right, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.480 If you can retain your employees, that's a big deal, 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.639 and I think it it also. I mean, just because 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.040 someone who's working from home doesn't mean they aren't as 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.720 dedicated and or working as hard as anybody else. So, 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.240 you know, I do think being able to keep these 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:38.320 incredibly hard working women in the workforce is. 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:39.960 A boon for everybody. 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:42.640 And figuring out a way to do it that works 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.200 for them, I think that also does go a long 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.439 way in terms of retaining employees. Right, It creates a 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.520 lot of loyalty if you can be flexible. 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.200 What are some of the other responses that you have 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.320 seen from working moms? How are they handling this? How 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:57.080 do they manage? 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:57.640 Yeah? 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.200 So I do think this is this is a big 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.080 thing where before I think a lot of women might 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:06.080 opt out, Right, we did see that. I think that's 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.720 not really what's happening. Rather than be opting out or 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:13.440 giving up or being mommy tracked or whatever you want 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.000 to call it, I do think that they're sort of saying, okay, fine, 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.879 if this, if you're not willing to redefine what the 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:21.959 ideal worker looks like. Then I'm going to make up 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.879 my own rules that fall outside the bounds of corporate America. 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.920 So they are starting their own companies, they're becoming independent contractors. 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.600 We've seen women who are become very senior say I 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.439 don't want the time jump, right, this isn't for me. 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.920 And I think, again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:42.920 They're going to go on and start their own companies 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.520 and that's going to let them make up the rules 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:48.760 that really work for them. 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.040 Do you find more women are also disappointed because they 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.640 thought that this was going to be a path forward 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:58.479 so they can balance their careers and their families, and 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.400 now it looks like it's just being taken in a way. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.200 It's very hard to give a benefit or to provide 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:05.360 a flexibility and then remove it. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:07.800 Yeah, and I would say this is not just for 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:09.280 working moms either. 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.280 I think a lot of people feel like they were 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.199 I don't know that the companies have really kind of 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:16.879 turn the tables on them in the sense that this 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.520 was something that they were being told worked and kind 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.640 of plan their lives around it, and then it was 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.879 something that was withdrawn. So I don't think that's actually 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.879 just for working parents. I think that's a huge issue 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.760 for everybody that they kind of got used to working. 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.040 This way, they did it well, and now. 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.679 I think there is some some resentment that this is 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:41.919 something that's no longer an option for them. 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.040 Any chance it's going to come back. I know you 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:45.320 don't have a crystal ball, but. 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.639 I do think to your point, I do think there 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.600 will be a generational shift at some point. No, and again, 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.760 I don't think this is like never in the office, right. 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:56.840 I think this is in the office when it makes sense, 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:58.520 not just to tick a box. 0:19:58.600 --> 0:19:58.800 Right. 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:04.400 So I think there there's nuance here, and I'm hopeful 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:08.080 that as we see a new generation to take over 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.119 these roles, these top roles in corporate America, maybe they 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:12.800 can figure it out. 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.800 Bethco It is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist covering corporate America 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.800 and coming up how one senator's block on military promotions 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.800 may put a stain on the entire Senate. Don't forget 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.719 We're available as a podcast on Apple, Spotify or your 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:44.320 favorite podcast platform. This is Bloomberg Opinion. This is Bloomberg Opinion. 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.520 I'm Abe Morris Republican Senator Tommy Tubberville has a block 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:52.320 on military promotions for eight months, in counting a protest 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.560 move on his part, pushing back against the Pentagon's policy 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.800 of paying travel expenses for military members seeking abortions. Even 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:02.640 as members of his own party are criticizing him for this, 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.320 Senator Tubberville says he won't budge. 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.760 I'm still dug in, you know, I'm you know, I 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:14.359 ran on as a pro life candidate. My state's pro life. 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.439 But while responsibility for this falls on the senator and 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.040 other Republicans, what about Democrats. Let's bring in Bloomberg opinion 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:25.800 columnist Jonathan Bernstein, who covers politics, and Jonathan as always 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:28.199 thank you for your time. What does this do to 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:28.800 the Senate? 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.640 Well, you know the problem with the Senate is that 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:38.879 it has run for years on informal norms and procedures. 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:44.359 There are rules, but the rules depend on senators sort 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.600 of agreeing to do certain things that they don't have 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:49.880 to do. And what's happened is that that's falling apart 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.200 over the years. And so that you know the way 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:57.680 that military promotions generally are done is that they come 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:03.040 to this Senate has to confirm them for a general 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.440 to become a you know, one star general to become 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.520 a two star general. And what happens is they all 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.840 come over from the President and the Senate processes them 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.680 through committee, and then one day the Majority leader says, 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:17.919 or the chair of the committee says, you know, I 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:25.680 want sent to confirm the following eight items. And they 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:29.639 do twenty forty sixty of them at a time. It 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:34.320 takes two seconds. They're done. But if somebody objects and 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:37.880