WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: How Electroconvulsive Therapy Works 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.960 M Hey everyone, it's your old pal Josh. And for 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.000 this week's s Y s K Selects, I've chosen how 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:10.319 electro convulsive therapy works. Uh. This one was an eye 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:13.600 opening episode. It came out in May of two thousand thirteen, 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.200 and prior to this I always thought it was just 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.520 kind of a barbaric treatment that was used to keep 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.800 patients quiet, when actually, in reality, it's an effective therapy 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.560 that is still in use today. Like I said, I opening. 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:35.080 I hope you enjoy it. Welcome to Stuff you Should 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:43.879 Know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, welcome to 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.880 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.440 which means it's time for Stuff you Should Know. Indeed 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:56.279 shocking edition. See I take the rap for a bad pun, 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.080 but you in fact said that before we recorded. I 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:03.080 know I before we recorded. I have a public image. 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:08.160 I have to carefully got um Chuck. Yes, have you 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.240 ever seen or read or both One flu Over the 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:15.280 Cuckoo's Nest? Yes? Both? Oh? Yeah? Did you like the 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:19.240 book more than the movie or vice versa? Both? The 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.920 book was great. I've seen the movie a dozen times. Yeah. 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:23.800 One of my faiths it is a great movie. I 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:25.920 haven't read the book, although I was a Kinksi fan. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:27.360 I thought he was a cool dude. Yeah, I've read 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.040 a few. It is. Um. What else did he write? 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:34.600 He did the Well, actually he didn't write. That was 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:36.840 Tom Wolfe that wrote the Electrical light Estra. But Kesi 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.240 was figured prominently obviously. Oh yeah, he was the main 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:43.679 KESI wrote the crap. I'll come back to it. Okay, 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:50.400 he wrote the what was it the book? Well, if 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:52.960 you haven't seen or read one flu Over the Cuckoo's Nest, 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.360 you totally should. It is, like Chuck was saying, one 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.200 of the best movies of all time. It is a 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.880 great book, apparently. And Um. One of the things that 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.800 factors into it setting in insane asylum in the fifties 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.920 I would say maybe sixties. Um. And one of the 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.720 I guess almost a character in this um movie or 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.840 book is electro convulsive therapy, which the staff uses to 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.919 basically keep the patients in check. Um. Just the very 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:26.240 threat of getting electro convulsive therapy shock treatment, a type 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.440 of shock treatment, we should say, is enough to just 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:31.280 keep everybody very docile and calm and settle down when 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:32.959 they started to get riled up. You can just ask 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.919 them do you want some shock treatment? They're like no, No, 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:41.960 everything's good, Everything's fine. And apparently because of that and 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:45.720 Keisi worked as an orderly in a mental institution in Oregon, 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.440 so he saw his firsthand when he wrote it. Um, 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.280 because of that, E. C. T. Got a pretty bad 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.359 rap over the course of a couple of decades, the 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:59.120 point where it's basically forced almost out of existence. And 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.680 it wasn't just key easy um making this stuff up 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.200 like he said, he was a he was a disorderly, 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:08.480 like like the fat boys. Um. But there was also 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.320 a study in NY the National Institutes of Health that 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.799 found like that was pretty common practice among antal institutions 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.920 at the time because it was drug free. Yeah, it 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.560 was just using electrical shock and it wasn't a lobotomy, 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.960 right and um it was the effects were temporary and 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:28.079 apparently it worked to keep everybody in line. But that's 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:35.800 a gross abuse of this pretty effective therapy for mental illness, yeah, 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.720 for severe depression. And these days it is approved by 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.560 the National Institute of Mental Health, the a p A, 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.360 the a m A, and the U. S. Surgeon General, 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.520 and they all say that if used properly e c 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:53.680 T these days, and you know, tweaked diversion of what 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.960 they did back then is can be very beneficial. And 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:02.160 Kitty Dukakus, wife of Michael du Caucus, former presidential nominee 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.440 until he wrote in a tank, uh, wrote a book 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.320 because she had it and it's called Shock, The Healing 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.480 Powers of Electro Convulsive Therapy, and um, it helped her out. 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:14.760 And I've read excerpts and reviews and stuff, and she 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.840 doesn't like champion it for everyone or anything, but gives 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.520 a lot of great history and then says how it 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.360 has helped her in her journey right through depression. Apparently 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.039 also helped Dick cabin Oh yeah, yeah, it did not 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.719 help so much. Um, Sylvia Platha in a steeming Way right, Um, 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.200 but yeah, it's been it's been used on a decent 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:36.919 amount of people. Apparently about a hundred thousand Americans a 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:42.640 year undergo electro convulsive therapy. Six under who who got 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:47.080 George the James cam Yeah yeah that's right. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.159 we've already spoiled that show, so we might we should 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:54.080 just like do dramatic readings from scripts. Uh yeah, Um, 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.840 so we we should also say before we go forward, 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:00.200 It's very easy to call it electro shock therapy. It's 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.520 kind of right. Electro Convulsive therapy is a type of 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:08.239 shock therapy and shock therapies. The aim is to shock 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.599 your system into having a convulsion, because as far back 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.840 as Hyppocrates, it was noticed that people who have mental 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:21.080 illnesses who experienced convulsions tended to feel a little better 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.640 after the after they experienced their seizures. Yeah, so what 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:27.680 you're trying to do with any kind of shock treatment 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:32.680 is induced a seizure and a convulsion because no one 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.440 knows why still to this day, but it does something 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:40.000 to your brain and can cure, whether temporarily or permanently, 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.640 um mental illness. Yeah. I wonder how this I never 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:45.280 I didn't think about until just now. I wonder how 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.360 it ties in with like a temper tantrum, like a 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.960 kid feeling better afterward or more settled afterward, or an 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.279 adult that just loses it, you know, and then you know, 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.240 I think everyone's truly lost it before in some emotional way, 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.320 and then afterwards you're like, boy, may feel like more 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:05.080 relaxed now, right, like resetting after like a catharsis. Yeah, 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:07.720 I bet you it's sort of similar pathways in the brain, right, 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.440 except this is with electricity exactly. So, um, let's talk 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.920 about the history of shock therapies and electro convulsive therapy 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.600 or e c T. That's easier to say. So. One 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.880 thing that they did in the twentieth century, um, they 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.960 started to experiment with insulin shock, where they would just 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.760 dose the crud out of somebody with insulin and basically 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.279 like bring them into a coma and in the comma 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:34.200 they would have convulsions. Is that right? Yeah? Right, that 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.400 was the point, Like they figured out this guy named 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:40.680 Ladislaus von Maduna, who was a Hungarian physician. Yeah, he 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.479 figured out that if you take insulin and injected into somebody, 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.359 puts him in a coma temporary coma um that you 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.560 can bring him out of with glucose, and then while 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.320 they're in the coma they have seizures. And he was 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.840 one of the ones were probably the first modern physician 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:01.960 to suggest that there was a link between seizure or um. Yeah, 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.240 seizures and the curing of mental illness. He took it 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.040 one step too far and saying that schizophrenia and epilepsy 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.800 were counter productive maladies. So if you had one, you 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.200 couldn't have the other. Not true. He was wrong about that, 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.760 but he was right about seizures having a curative effect 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:20.840 on mental illness. Though interesting, but he was the one 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:26.720 who started championing and champion championing using insulin to produce seizures. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.640 So he led the way, followed by Italian scientists in 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:34.000 the nineteen thirties who finally brought electricity into it. Well, 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.880 hold on, there was another guy too before. Yeah, like 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.240 right around the same time, they are all these competing 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:44.000 shock therapies, um, and there was the insulin guy, and 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:48.200 then there was another dude UM named Manfred's Sakel and 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:52.080 he was testing something called metrozol, which is the respiratory stimulant. 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:56.320 And when you give somebody this stuff, they have seizures. 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.000 And it's very reliable and it's very powerful, more powerful 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:04.280 than insulin, and it requires less recuperation time in hospitalization time. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.920 The problem is it's so powerful. They're like of patients 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.720 who had um shock therapy using metros all stuff suffered 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:17.320 spinal fractures from because the convulsions were so hardcore. Yeah, 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:42.160 like the Exorcist. Yeah, and then some now we're electricity Yeah, 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:47.240 they discovered electricity. No, eight, that's not true. That was close. 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.840 I think it was like, um, these Italians, they were scientists, 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.120 and they said, we can use this to jolt this 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:59.240 guy like with these delusions. He's he's clearly suffering, Like 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:03.160 shock him with electricity and the delusions receded after like 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.480 several treatments, and then just a few years later in 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:10.240 the nineties it was being used as a regular treatment 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:16.200 in the US for schizophrenia, depression, bipolarism. Um, but it's 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:20.559 not like it is today. No, you said they've tweaked it. 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.600 They've definitely improved it. They figured it out. Like we 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.320 were a little barbaric before. No anesthesia back then. Yeah, 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.640 so you're wide awake and conscious when they applied an 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:33.800 electro shock, yet your brain like in cuckoo's nests. Yeah, 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:39.200 violent physical reactions with the body that don't happen these 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:43.400 days were very powerful. Yeah, because a there's anesthesia, and 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:47.520 they also these days put um muscle relaxers and stuff 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:52.679 everywhere except the big the big foot, the foot, eighth 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:54.760 single foot. Well, when it has a blood pressure cuffin, 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.360 I'm sure it is the big foot. But yeah, they 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.280 introduced it intravenously and then they put a blood press 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.280 your cuff on your around your ankle, so your body 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.600 isn't like convulsing anymore. But dick and tell it's going 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.480 on by e G s and stuff. And then the 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.920 foot single foots movement, Yeah, because you're keeping the muscle 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.840 relaxer and I guess the anesthesia out of the foot. Yeah, 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.120 so someone's actually a doctor looking just at your foot supposedly. 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.480 I haven't seen that anywhere else. I saw, Yeah, I 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:23.520 saw that. Um like they even with the muscle relax 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:25.439 and your fists are going to clench it on clanch in, 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:27.800 your chest might heave, and they'll still put a tongue 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.040 thing in your mouth to keep you from buying your 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.400 tongue off. Right, But the the cumulative effect of it 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:34.800 is not going to be felt at all by you 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.679 because you're out under general anesthesia and you're probably feeling 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.880 pretty good anyway. That's true thanks to Mr muscle Relaxer. 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.199 And then the you know what, the way you've always 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.560 seen it on TV, even when they portray modern like 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:51.080 on six ft Under, they show people are always rendered 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:55.720 this like zombies, like lobotomized essentially, and that's that's not 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.320 what's going on these days. No, well, even back then, 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.360 it was kind of a caricature of what a person 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:05.160 looked like coming out of it, because there is memory 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.120 loss associated with it. Yeah, and there still is. Yeah, 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.319 there was then, there still is now. So I think 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.319 that it's almost like that's what that's what some artists 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:17.280 rendering or some directors rendering of what somebody with memory 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.839 loss looks like. And so that's what just kind of 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.640 got picked up in the popular culture following e. C. T. 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:27.880 As you're just like catatonic, lobotomized, zombie like. But really 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.559 it's that's shorthand for it. There's weird memory loss. Yeah, 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:33.120 and these days are going to check you out a 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:37.120 lot more beforehand, I think, especially in the media portrayed 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.720 as you know, some like a McMurtry and one flew 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.079 with the cuckoo's nest. He's causing problems, so let's just 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:43.920 drag him in there, strap him down and shock him. 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.360 These days are gonna five disorderly to hold them exactly. Uh, 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.680 you're gonna go through a battery of pre treatments um 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.880 like blood test, electrocardiograms, They're gonna give you a physical 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.360 they're gonna give you a mental and they're gonna make 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.560 sure you're a good fit all the way around for 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.640 this kind of treatment. It's you know, it's not as 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:04.320 I don't know if it was willing only back then, 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:06.080 but that's how it appeared to be at least, and 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.760 there was there's actually a decision by the f d 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:14.120 A it's an electro convulsive therapy machine is a Class 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:19.560 three I believe device, just the strictest and classification. And 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.480 so it was up for reclassification for a little while, 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.000 and um, they said, you know what, we're gonna stick 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.600 with this classification because it's used for electro shocks. And 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.560 a lot of people said, whoa old stuff. Yeah, you guys, 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:33.800 this is this is you're still looking at it under 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.480 this the medieval use from the forties and fifties. Things 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.600 have changed by then. But I have to say, I 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.240 mean it's I kind of am comforted by the fact 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.960 that you still have to go to a doctor. It's 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.440 not like the same thing as going for like laser 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.120 hair removal, like you can also get e c T 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:53.280 in the same office. Like it's very much medicalized, and 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.199 I think it should be because we still don't understand 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:59.600 what the mechanisms are. Yeah, that's true. Um, they will 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:01.320 pulse your brain. You know, you've got these little things 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:02.880 about the side of a quarter, these pads on the 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.960 side of your head, either on both sides or one side, 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.040 and they pulse you with for one millisecond, even though 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:15.160 I think recently even shorter like millisecond point to five 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.240 to point three seven milliseconds. Yeah, that's what they're starting 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.600 to use. And I guess that that's like, is it 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.439 for more humane purposes or works better? Yeah, I think 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.920 they're finding that it works at least as well. But 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:31.000 there's also fewer side effects, like apparently a one millisecond 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:37.280 pulse of electricity is enough to like really interrupt memory, right, consolidation, 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.360 I guess, whereas like a quarter of a millisecond it's 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.040 not so bad. All right, these days, you're gonna get 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.040 it two to three times a week for three to 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.559 four weeks, is a typical treatment. Yeah, that's of course, 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:49.920 five or ten minutes at a time. Yeah, from the 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.840 time that they inject you with the the anesthesia till 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.520 the time you start to wake up is about ten minutes, 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.280 which I mean, like that doesn't sound like much. But 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.200 if you're doing that two to three times a week 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.880 for several weeks, all but that's a period of your 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.440 life that you have a lot of trouble remembering much of. 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.040 I don't think it's a picnic still, no, because you're 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.800 you are still coming out of it. You're still groggy 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.680 coming out of anesthesia. You can still be confused. What's 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.760 ironic is now that they use anesthesia, you probably look 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.520 more like the portrayal of people coming out out of 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.440 e c. T in the fifties than they did because 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.440 they were anestecized. Yeah they weren't. No, Yeah, that's what 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.720 I mean that today. That's funny. I didn't think about 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:34.880 it like that. UM I found one staff. I found 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:39.120 one stat that said it is effective in of people 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.040 these days with severe depression, whereas any depressants are only 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.520 UM effective about six in the time. Yeah, and that's 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.520 what pretty much what they're using it for is just 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:54.080 like major depression is pretty much the thing that they found, like, Okay, 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.160 it's really effective for this. Like when drugs don't work well, 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.240 that's usually when they're turning to it. UM is after 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.840 an adepressant, after antidepressant, hasn't worked. But this is like 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.880 a pretty significant rebound, a hundred thousand people a year 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:13.359 getting this and coming under wide medical and public acceptance. 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.000 UM because just as as recently in the eighties, there's 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.880 a stat in this article that says between eighty five 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.400 and two thousand two, the use of e c T 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.160 in England dropped by half, and that was because there 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.800 was a rise of anidepressants. It's like, you can take 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.240 these pills, or we can put electrodes on your brain 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.680 and zap you. What do you want to do? But 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.680 then as people were as physicians, I guess we're finding 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.360 that there were plenty people out there who don't respond 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:44.640 well to UM antidepressants. Shock therapy is a great alternative. 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.200 And if you're if you suffer from major depression and 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:53.520 you are suicidal or at risk for suicide, they may 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:58.160 hop right to act because the results are so much faster. 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.040 Huh that makes sense, I know. Well. One of the 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:06.320 interesting things they pointed out too was that UM, once 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.320 you've had e c T, if drugs were not previously 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:15.640 effective on you, then the antidepressants can extend the good, uh, 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.400 the good effects of the e c T longer, which 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.200 was interesting because like I guess they can work in 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.720 concert if you go e c T first, which makes 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.400 it sound like like the e c T goes in 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:30.080 there and like shake things loose, and then the drugs 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.200 come in and like keep their functioning going, keep the 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.720 new and improved functioning going. And we should say, like, 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.040 all this is theory. We don't no one knows specifically 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.040 what e c T does to the brain. We just 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.440 know it works. Then we should also say, no one's 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:49.040 exactly certain how anidipressants work right or what effects they 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.600 have on the brain. But there's a couple of theories, 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:56.960 um that are kind of brain based. One is that UM, 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.400 the the idea is that the electricity UM changes how 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:06.359 blood flows or how cells metabolize things, and UM that 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.080 leads to some sort of improved function. Yeah. The other 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.560 one is they think it might release certain chemicals that 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:15.240 can help out UM, and everything I've read sort of 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.920 likens it to a like a control all delete, reset, 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.399 or like some sort of reset function on your brain. 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:24.560 I think they likened it in here to turning the 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.440 stereo down, like there's just so much noise and this 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.080 just sort of resets a troubled brain right. Yeah, there 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.480 was a study in from Scotland in two thousand twelve 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.639 where they did brain scans of people with major depression 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.600 before ECT and after a round of e c T 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:44.240 and UM they found that these regions associated with mood 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.840 and emotion, um, we're less active. And so they said 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.440 that they basically altered the functional connectivity of these regions 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.760 between the regions so that the person could think more clearly, 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.679 was less distracted, and they think that that had an 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.440 effect on reducing their question well, and they tested with 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.760 Placebo's two and I think like anytime you test with 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:07.760 the placebo, you're gonna find that some there's gonna be 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.600 a little bit of it that works. But yeah, you know, 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:12.679 but not always. And that's what they found here is 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.320 that some of the people that were told that they 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.560 received e c T put under didn't you think this 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:19.640 is kind of mean? Yeah, they would put them under 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.000 and say they did it and not do it. Um 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.240 that the people with e c T did recover UM faster, 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.280 but there were some that received the fake treatment that 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.159 did recover as well. So they think that might have 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.760 just been because they received that extra TLC from a 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:43.000 proper clinician and the free drugs. That's true. So um, 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.600 we should say there are risks to it. Like there's 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.119 at least two types of memory laws associated with e 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:52.679 C t UM. One is you have trouble making memories 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:56.760 around the appointment, UM, which is to be expected. That 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:01.199 usually fades. UM. Then there's larger member reloss that of 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:07.199 past events long before your ect therapy. UM. But that 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.760 also fades not in old people though, So there is 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:13.080 like memory laws associated with it. With zapping the brain 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.640 with electricity, who who would have thought? Um? And then uh, 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.960 you can also die. UM. One in ten thousand patients 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:24.479 undergoing it dies but they they say that that's how 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.840 many one in ten thousand, So every year ten people 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.160 die from from in America. But they say that that's 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:35.399 typically a reaction to or a result of anesthesia, like 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.840 just going on right, Yeah, it's dangerous in and of itself. 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:43.399 You're gonna get headaches obviously, in some muscle pain. But UM, 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.199 I don't I don't think it's anything quite like the 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.920 old days as far as muscle pain and stuff like that. Yeah, 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:50.920 and you will still find people that poop po would 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:52.720 of course, but this article points out a lot of 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.280 those people are the same people that are pretty anti 0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:01.359 psychiatry in general and stuff like this. That seems like 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.520 a bit of a leap to me. What from the 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.560 author to say that, Yeah, at least she wasn't just 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:15.040 like scientologists hate it. Um, have you got anything else? 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.080 I got nothing else. Let's go try this out. I 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.360 would certainly try it out if I needed it. Okay, yeah, 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.879 would too, you know, because there's something appealing to me 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:29.200 about using electricity over drugs. Yeah, drugs are some great 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.400 thing to pump your body full of love. Yeah, it's 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.359 just I don't know. I wonder if it's going to 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:38.800 become more and more widespread, you know. Yeah, and if 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.240 it comes back Gangbusters, man, that's really going to be 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:46.479 impressive because it was almost gone. Yeah. You know, imagine 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.400 if the little botomy came back. Yeah. I know it's 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:54.400 still around, but it's not back. But you know, ect 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:58.040 is back, baby, maybe a little blood letting lit leaching. Right. 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:02.040 If you want to learn more about electro convulsive therapy, 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.200 type that word in the search bar how stuff works 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:05.680 dot com. Let's see if you can do it on 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.800 the first try. And since I said search bar, um, 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:33.359 I guess it's time for message break mm hmm, and 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:38.480 now listener mail yes, and I'm gonna call this misheard 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.119 song lyrics. Um, oh yeah, I can't remember which one. 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:47.720 We asked hand Canal was yeah, okay, um, everyone has 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.480 misheard sound lyrics. Excuse me while I kissed this guy, 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:56.880 Jimi Hendrix wrapped up like a douche Hanford man, that's 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:59.200 not what he's saying. No, it wrapped up like a deuce, 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:02.960 like a is talking about craps. Is he craps or 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:06.480 some other sort of gambling. I don't think so. Because 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.000 Springsteen wrote the song and it was cut loose like 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:11.880 a deuce, and he's tung about a car engine. I've 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:16.680 heard gambling. Springsteen wrote it and then man for man 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:19.320 changed it. And it's funny. Springsteen has come out and said, 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:21.080 you know, that song didn't become popular to what it 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:24.080 became about feminine hygiene, and then it was like a 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.800 big deal. Or there's a bathroom on the right CCR 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:33.080 instead of a bad moon. Right. I hadn't heard that one. 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:35.760 There's a bathroom. No, No, I know the song, but 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:38.160 I mean, like, I've never heard anybody thinking he's same 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:41.439 as a bathroom on their right. It's fairly common. Okay, 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:44.080 all right, so we got one from Cheryl. Hey, guys, 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:45.600 first of all, I want to say, you're still keeping 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:47.920 me company on days when I get time to work 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:50.440 on my art projects. You're still as great as ever. 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:52.840 I was just listening to Panama Canal and I thought 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.040 i'd populo a quick note to give you a grin 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:59.200 misinterpreted lyrics where my specialty as a kid far and away, 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:01.560 and my most famous moment was when I was five 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:05.359 or six listening to Madonna with my Auntie and I 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:12.120 would sing Papa Dom bridge, I'm in trouble deep. She said. 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:15.160 Thing is this really made sense to me and logical logically, 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:17.960 if a bridge is made out of Papa doms, which 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:20.959 or do you know what those are, sort of like 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:24.480 a like a flat bread, like a crispy tortilla, sort of, 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:28.480 it's like a crispy flatbread. Uh So, if a bridge 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:31.280 was made out of Papa doms, it would be bound 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:33.680 to be weak, and if someone were to walk over it, 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:35.560