1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,316 --> 00:00:23,396 Speaker 2: Marty Stewart has dedicated his life to playing and preserving 3 00:00:23,556 --> 00:00:26,636 Speaker 2: old country music. During his forty plus years as a 4 00:00:26,716 --> 00:00:29,756 Speaker 2: solo artist, Marty has released more than twenty albums and 5 00:00:29,836 --> 00:00:33,996 Speaker 2: racked up numerous honors, including five Grammys and being inducted 6 00:00:34,036 --> 00:00:37,676 Speaker 2: into the Country Music Hall of Fame. Marty started his 7 00:00:37,716 --> 00:00:40,436 Speaker 2: career at the age of twelve, playing mandolin in a 8 00:00:40,556 --> 00:00:43,956 Speaker 2: gospel band. By twenty one, he joined Johnny Cash's touring 9 00:00:43,996 --> 00:00:47,676 Speaker 2: band and eventually became a solo artist who combined classic 10 00:00:47,756 --> 00:00:52,956 Speaker 2: rockabilly sounds with bluegrass and cosmic country. His latest album 11 00:00:53,116 --> 00:00:56,236 Speaker 2: has a sweeping, spacious feel that's meant to conjure up 12 00:00:56,356 --> 00:01:00,516 Speaker 2: visions of desert horizons and endless stretches of two lane highways. 13 00:01:01,316 --> 00:01:04,116 Speaker 2: For today's episode, Bruce Hedler met up with Marty Stewart 14 00:01:04,156 --> 00:01:08,156 Speaker 2: at Bridge Studios in Brooklyn. Marty shared stories about first 15 00:01:08,236 --> 00:01:10,796 Speaker 2: going on the road with his Sullivan Family gospel singers, 16 00:01:10,956 --> 00:01:14,636 Speaker 2: and the very first show he ever played backing Johnny Cash. 17 00:01:14,956 --> 00:01:17,796 Speaker 2: Marty also talks about how a star studied studio session 18 00:01:17,876 --> 00:01:21,356 Speaker 2: with Roy Orbison, Carl Perkins, and Jerry Lee Lewis gave 19 00:01:21,436 --> 00:01:25,276 Speaker 2: him the confidence to pursue a solo career in country music. 20 00:01:28,196 --> 00:01:31,436 Speaker 2: This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 21 00:01:31,596 --> 00:01:35,676 Speaker 2: I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Bruce Hadlam with Marty Stewart. 22 00:01:35,996 --> 00:01:38,996 Speaker 1: So I do want to talk first about your new album. 23 00:01:39,236 --> 00:01:40,236 Speaker 1: It's your first one in. 24 00:01:40,396 --> 00:01:42,356 Speaker 3: Six years, Altitude. 25 00:01:42,436 --> 00:01:45,316 Speaker 1: Yeah, So tell me how this one came about. Your 26 00:01:45,516 --> 00:01:48,276 Speaker 1: albums in the last fifteen years have been so they're 27 00:01:48,316 --> 00:01:51,556 Speaker 1: like concept albums. They seem so carefully planned. How did 28 00:01:51,596 --> 00:01:52,716 Speaker 1: this one come about? 29 00:01:52,916 --> 00:01:55,916 Speaker 3: Well, this one was ready to go. Were me and 30 00:01:55,916 --> 00:01:59,316 Speaker 3: the band rehearsed it. We were on tour. We were 31 00:01:59,356 --> 00:02:03,396 Speaker 3: touring with Chris Hillman and Roger McGuinn celebrating the fiftieth 32 00:02:03,436 --> 00:02:05,516 Speaker 3: anniversary of the Sweetheart of the Rodeo record. We were 33 00:02:05,556 --> 00:02:08,076 Speaker 3: doing shows with Chris Stiffleton, we were doing shows with 34 00:02:08,116 --> 00:02:10,996 Speaker 3: Steve Miller Band, and I was just in the presence 35 00:02:11,036 --> 00:02:14,956 Speaker 3: of these gargantuan songs, just one great song after another, 36 00:02:15,796 --> 00:02:18,276 Speaker 3: night after night, and I have no but it was 37 00:02:18,316 --> 00:02:21,276 Speaker 3: the Birds shows that really touched my heart. I love 38 00:02:21,396 --> 00:02:24,796 Speaker 3: Roger and Chris, they're like big brothers. And the sounds 39 00:02:24,836 --> 00:02:28,356 Speaker 3: of Roger's twelfth string Rickenbacker and my guitar that I 40 00:02:28,396 --> 00:02:30,436 Speaker 3: played blunk to a fellow named Clarence White that played 41 00:02:30,436 --> 00:02:33,596 Speaker 3: in the Birds Chris Hillman's singing and his bass playing. 42 00:02:33,676 --> 00:02:36,116 Speaker 3: So I have no idea that that did not follow 43 00:02:36,156 --> 00:02:39,556 Speaker 3: me back to my writing tablet. But we had this 44 00:02:39,636 --> 00:02:42,716 Speaker 3: record really hot, rehearsed and ready to go, and then 45 00:02:42,756 --> 00:02:47,836 Speaker 3: the pandemic crashed in on us. So the idea became, well, 46 00:02:47,996 --> 00:02:50,796 Speaker 3: we were going to Hollywood to Capitol Studios to make 47 00:02:50,836 --> 00:02:54,036 Speaker 3: the record. They shut down, so we made the decision. 48 00:02:54,076 --> 00:02:56,516 Speaker 3: The soldier threw and put on mask and stand six 49 00:02:56,556 --> 00:03:00,316 Speaker 3: feet apart in the drudgery of that in such a 50 00:03:00,356 --> 00:03:02,516 Speaker 3: space as this, But we got it done. And we 51 00:03:02,556 --> 00:03:04,676 Speaker 3: sat on the record for over two years, so it 52 00:03:05,196 --> 00:03:08,396 Speaker 3: wasn't quite six years, but the pandemic took a bite 53 00:03:08,436 --> 00:03:11,676 Speaker 3: out of that. I used my time wisely during that 54 00:03:11,716 --> 00:03:13,756 Speaker 3: time made two more records that are ready to go. 55 00:03:13,916 --> 00:03:17,876 Speaker 3: So I love making records. I still love making records. 56 00:03:18,316 --> 00:03:21,116 Speaker 1: Now, tell me about Sweetheart of the Rodeo for you, 57 00:03:21,316 --> 00:03:24,356 Speaker 1: because of course when that first came out, that wasn't 58 00:03:24,396 --> 00:03:29,596 Speaker 1: popular in Nashville. They got booed at the rhyman famously. 59 00:03:30,556 --> 00:03:32,796 Speaker 1: Do you remember listening to that growing up with When 60 00:03:32,796 --> 00:03:33,836 Speaker 1: did you first encounter that? 61 00:03:34,076 --> 00:03:36,316 Speaker 3: I don't think it was popular anywhere. I think even 62 00:03:36,396 --> 00:03:40,076 Speaker 3: Birds fans went, I don't think we're buying this journey 63 00:03:40,076 --> 00:03:43,596 Speaker 3: with them. I bought it in a used record in 64 00:03:43,636 --> 00:03:46,196 Speaker 3: a record store at a shopping mall in North Nashville 65 00:03:46,236 --> 00:03:49,756 Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy three. I remember it was two dollars 66 00:03:49,796 --> 00:03:51,756 Speaker 3: in ninety nine cents. I still have the record with 67 00:03:51,796 --> 00:03:53,956 Speaker 3: the rapper still on it. And I was playing in 68 00:03:54,036 --> 00:03:56,956 Speaker 3: Lester Flats band at the time at the Grand Old Opry, 69 00:03:58,036 --> 00:04:00,236 Speaker 3: and I liked the record because it was the first 70 00:04:00,316 --> 00:04:02,756 Speaker 3: time that I'd ever heard rock and roll and country 71 00:04:02,756 --> 00:04:05,596 Speaker 3: and honky tonk and folk and bluegrass and gospel music 72 00:04:06,036 --> 00:04:10,396 Speaker 3: collide kind of successfully in the group of one record, 73 00:04:11,316 --> 00:04:14,636 Speaker 3: and so it had an appeal to me because that 74 00:04:14,836 --> 00:04:17,716 Speaker 3: just just something about it worked for me. And right 75 00:04:17,756 --> 00:04:21,436 Speaker 3: after that, Lester Flat was kind of an aging Grand 76 00:04:21,436 --> 00:04:25,356 Speaker 3: Ol Oppry star that was loved and highly regarded. He 77 00:04:25,436 --> 00:04:28,076 Speaker 3: was as one of the master architects of the culture. 78 00:04:28,716 --> 00:04:31,796 Speaker 3: But if you remember, at that particular time, the Nitty 79 00:04:31,796 --> 00:04:33,756 Speaker 3: Gritty Dirt Band had done a record call while the 80 00:04:33,756 --> 00:04:37,436 Speaker 3: circle be unbroken. That opened up country music and roots 81 00:04:37,476 --> 00:04:40,356 Speaker 3: music to an entirely different generation and maybe people that 82 00:04:40,436 --> 00:04:43,476 Speaker 3: went to Woodstock. All of a sudden were discovering by 83 00:04:43,516 --> 00:04:47,116 Speaker 3: way of this hippie band, country music and roots music. 84 00:04:47,516 --> 00:04:49,716 Speaker 3: And then the movie Deliverance came out and it had 85 00:04:49,716 --> 00:04:53,076 Speaker 3: that song duel in Banjo's in it, which lit a 86 00:04:53,116 --> 00:04:55,636 Speaker 3: fire under a lot of people. But Lester had been 87 00:04:55,636 --> 00:04:58,556 Speaker 3: doing duel in Banjo in his show for twenty years. 88 00:04:59,236 --> 00:05:04,596 Speaker 3: And we worked a College Buyer showcase in Cincinnati and 89 00:05:04,676 --> 00:05:08,156 Speaker 3: the bill that night was Lester Flat, Chicarea and Cool 90 00:05:08,156 --> 00:05:12,476 Speaker 3: in the Gang, and I thought, man, they're gonna las 91 00:05:12,556 --> 00:05:15,236 Speaker 3: laugh us off the stage, but it didn't work that way. 92 00:05:15,276 --> 00:05:17,236 Speaker 3: We did Duel in Banjo's, which was a hot at 93 00:05:17,236 --> 00:05:21,716 Speaker 3: the moment, and we encored nine times in forty five minutes. 94 00:05:21,836 --> 00:05:24,276 Speaker 3: And the next day his agent booked either seventy two 95 00:05:24,396 --> 00:05:28,876 Speaker 3: or seventy nine college campuses and rock festivals. One of 96 00:05:28,876 --> 00:05:31,236 Speaker 3: the first shows we played was at Michigan State and 97 00:05:31,276 --> 00:05:33,756 Speaker 3: the opening act was Graham Parsons and Emmy Blue Harris. 98 00:05:33,796 --> 00:05:35,916 Speaker 3: Then Lester played it in. The Eagles were out touring 99 00:05:35,956 --> 00:05:40,116 Speaker 3: Desperado and I saw Sweetheart of the Rodeo come to 100 00:05:40,156 --> 00:05:43,476 Speaker 3: life that night, that record that Graham had been a 101 00:05:43,516 --> 00:05:46,956 Speaker 3: part of, and it had inspired the Eagles, and it 102 00:05:47,076 --> 00:05:50,396 Speaker 3: inspired me. And I remember going on the bus after 103 00:05:50,436 --> 00:05:53,676 Speaker 3: the show telling all these old veterans I just saw 104 00:05:54,076 --> 00:05:56,276 Speaker 3: the future of my musical life tonight. And I think 105 00:05:56,276 --> 00:05:58,356 Speaker 3: they looked at me like, yeah, yeah, right back to 106 00:05:58,396 --> 00:06:01,716 Speaker 3: the poker game. But that record had a profound influence 107 00:06:01,716 --> 00:06:01,956 Speaker 3: on me. 108 00:06:02,156 --> 00:06:02,516 Speaker 2: It did. 109 00:06:03,076 --> 00:06:04,796 Speaker 3: That's a long winded answer, but that's how. 110 00:06:04,716 --> 00:06:08,156 Speaker 1: It's a perfect answer. But you saw Graham Parsons before then, 111 00:06:08,196 --> 00:06:10,876 Speaker 1: you heard the record, or you had the record by 112 00:06:10,876 --> 00:06:11,236 Speaker 1: that point. 113 00:06:11,276 --> 00:06:13,356 Speaker 3: I had the record, had the record. I had the record, 114 00:06:13,516 --> 00:06:15,476 Speaker 3: and he was long gone from the Birds, and I 115 00:06:15,556 --> 00:06:17,356 Speaker 3: think he was hanging out with the Stones, and I 116 00:06:17,396 --> 00:06:20,516 Speaker 3: remember he had black fingernail poly seOne and talking in 117 00:06:20,596 --> 00:06:22,996 Speaker 3: some you know, phony cock in the accent a little bit, 118 00:06:23,076 --> 00:06:26,396 Speaker 3: but there was something. He was an impressive character and 119 00:06:26,436 --> 00:06:28,676 Speaker 3: he filled up the room with his presence. And Emmy 120 00:06:28,756 --> 00:06:32,796 Speaker 3: Lou was just this angelic, kind of hippie girl presence 121 00:06:32,836 --> 00:06:35,116 Speaker 3: and I love her from the get go. I named 122 00:06:35,156 --> 00:06:37,316 Speaker 3: her Queenie that night, and she's still queen e to me. 123 00:06:37,356 --> 00:06:39,676 Speaker 1: She's my val and you've and you've played with her 124 00:06:39,716 --> 00:06:41,716 Speaker 1: since she she sang on the Pilgrim. 125 00:06:41,796 --> 00:06:44,036 Speaker 3: The Pilgrim, Oh, I mean it was like a sister. 126 00:06:44,476 --> 00:06:47,996 Speaker 3: She is and she is one of the most fearless 127 00:06:48,596 --> 00:06:52,396 Speaker 3: musical padres we have out there because and I find 128 00:06:52,396 --> 00:06:54,876 Speaker 3: that when I finally get brave enough you're talking about 129 00:06:54,876 --> 00:06:58,116 Speaker 3: the conceptual records or whatever, When I finally get brave 130 00:06:58,196 --> 00:07:00,396 Speaker 3: enough to go down the road to some creative endeavor, 131 00:07:00,876 --> 00:07:03,236 Speaker 3: when I get there, she's already been there. She's one 132 00:07:03,236 --> 00:07:06,396 Speaker 3: of those. She has just blazed the trail for everybody else. 133 00:07:07,036 --> 00:07:09,836 Speaker 1: I love her, uh. I think our first song on 134 00:07:09,876 --> 00:07:12,916 Speaker 1: the Pilgrim is actually called the Pilgrim, and it's a 135 00:07:13,036 --> 00:07:16,836 Speaker 1: very different sound for her. It's very commanding and a 136 00:07:16,836 --> 00:07:19,116 Speaker 1: little operatic in a way that you don't associate. 137 00:07:19,156 --> 00:07:22,996 Speaker 3: It's almost as you were standing in a cathedral addressing 138 00:07:23,036 --> 00:07:23,836 Speaker 3: the congregation. 139 00:07:24,436 --> 00:07:27,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she really, of course pulls it off because 140 00:07:27,676 --> 00:07:28,636 Speaker 1: she's Amy Lou Harris. 141 00:07:28,756 --> 00:07:29,356 Speaker 3: He's Gueeny. 142 00:07:31,796 --> 00:07:33,836 Speaker 1: What was the thinking going on in this album? Then 143 00:07:33,996 --> 00:07:37,076 Speaker 1: you had these the Sweetheart of the Rodeo songs in 144 00:07:37,116 --> 00:07:40,476 Speaker 1: your head. It's not an answer to that record? Was 145 00:07:40,516 --> 00:07:42,516 Speaker 1: it just inspired some of the songs. 146 00:07:42,636 --> 00:07:45,196 Speaker 3: I think that maybe the sonics of it, just the 147 00:07:45,756 --> 00:07:50,556 Speaker 3: attitude or the sounds guitar sounds, more than anything else. Lyrically, 148 00:07:52,156 --> 00:07:54,396 Speaker 3: as you well know you're a writer, you know the 149 00:07:54,436 --> 00:07:57,516 Speaker 3: blank page is the biggest spot on planet Earth when 150 00:07:57,556 --> 00:08:01,436 Speaker 3: there's nothing on it, and songs just kind of come 151 00:08:01,516 --> 00:08:03,876 Speaker 3: down from the sky and all of a sudden. I mean, 152 00:08:03,916 --> 00:08:06,756 Speaker 3: I probably left fifteen songs behind, but there was a 153 00:08:06,756 --> 00:08:09,876 Speaker 3: collection of songs that seemed to hold together. And I 154 00:08:09,876 --> 00:08:11,996 Speaker 3: don't know that there was an exact theme that ran 155 00:08:12,036 --> 00:08:14,316 Speaker 3: through this record, but it was just a vibe more 156 00:08:14,356 --> 00:08:18,716 Speaker 3: than a theme. But I think lyrically it holds up. Okay, 157 00:08:19,036 --> 00:08:19,436 Speaker 3: mm hmm. 158 00:08:19,556 --> 00:08:21,836 Speaker 1: And the sound is beautiful, thank you. But a lot 159 00:08:21,836 --> 00:08:23,956 Speaker 1: of your records sound beautiful, and I mean this is 160 00:08:23,996 --> 00:08:26,876 Speaker 1: the highest compliment. They sound like records. They sound like 161 00:08:27,236 --> 00:08:31,436 Speaker 1: great records. You can hear the studio when the drums 162 00:08:31,476 --> 00:08:35,756 Speaker 1: come in in the first track, they sound like real drums. 163 00:08:36,116 --> 00:08:37,836 Speaker 1: It's nicety hear yeah. 164 00:08:38,196 --> 00:08:41,516 Speaker 3: And I tell you, I'm surrounded by four guys on 165 00:08:41,596 --> 00:08:44,476 Speaker 3: stage and an engineer named Mick Connley. We are a 166 00:08:44,516 --> 00:08:47,276 Speaker 3: tone freaks. We will go to the ends of the 167 00:08:47,276 --> 00:08:50,356 Speaker 3: earth searching for yet a better tone. And I think 168 00:08:50,396 --> 00:08:52,116 Speaker 3: the thing that's missing in a lot of records these 169 00:08:52,156 --> 00:08:56,716 Speaker 3: days is air. The room is supposed to be a 170 00:08:56,756 --> 00:09:00,876 Speaker 3: band member and a voice, and just understanding air and 171 00:09:00,956 --> 00:09:04,156 Speaker 3: space and records makes a whole lot of different. Sometimes 172 00:09:04,196 --> 00:09:06,556 Speaker 3: it took me a long time to get there, and 173 00:09:06,756 --> 00:09:08,356 Speaker 3: less is sometimes a whole lot more. 174 00:09:08,516 --> 00:09:11,076 Speaker 1: How do you do that? Is it peeling away tracks? 175 00:09:11,196 --> 00:09:14,436 Speaker 1: Is it listening to the room? I know what you 176 00:09:14,516 --> 00:09:16,876 Speaker 1: mean by that, but I couldn't tell you how you'd 177 00:09:16,876 --> 00:09:17,276 Speaker 1: get there. 178 00:09:17,396 --> 00:09:19,596 Speaker 3: Do you remember the great jazz singer Peggy Lee? 179 00:09:19,716 --> 00:09:19,876 Speaker 1: Oh? 180 00:09:19,996 --> 00:09:23,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the greatest of all time. I can 181 00:09:23,276 --> 00:09:26,156 Speaker 3: only imagine going to see Peggy Lee at the right 182 00:09:26,236 --> 00:09:30,436 Speaker 3: place in Manhattan, and I would think that she was 183 00:09:30,476 --> 00:09:32,836 Speaker 3: cool as eyes, and I would think by the second note, 184 00:09:32,916 --> 00:09:36,356 Speaker 3: you were right. She brings you right to her right. 185 00:09:36,836 --> 00:09:37,796 Speaker 3: Did you ever get to see her? 186 00:09:38,116 --> 00:09:39,956 Speaker 1: Never saw her? Oh, I've got the records? 187 00:09:40,036 --> 00:09:42,916 Speaker 3: Well, me too, me too? And I read one time 188 00:09:43,156 --> 00:09:46,036 Speaker 3: that she talked about going to the studio. She said, Hey, 189 00:09:47,276 --> 00:09:49,396 Speaker 3: we didn't go to the studio and look for chances. 190 00:09:49,436 --> 00:09:50,956 Speaker 3: We knew what we were going to do when we 191 00:09:50,996 --> 00:09:53,436 Speaker 3: got to the studio. And I like to rehearse it 192 00:09:53,516 --> 00:09:55,876 Speaker 3: up to a point, leave maybe five percent for magic 193 00:09:56,396 --> 00:10:00,476 Speaker 3: to find its way in and surprises. But Peggy Lee's 194 00:10:00,516 --> 00:10:02,596 Speaker 3: records were one of those, and there we can just 195 00:10:02,716 --> 00:10:05,196 Speaker 3: keep going. Dave Brewbeck Records, You know, I listened to 196 00:10:05,196 --> 00:10:08,756 Speaker 3: all that stuff, but the sonics on those records are 197 00:10:08,796 --> 00:10:11,716 Speaker 3: just so lush and they're so warm, and they touch 198 00:10:11,756 --> 00:10:14,996 Speaker 3: your heart and they just seem to check off all 199 00:10:14,996 --> 00:10:17,676 Speaker 3: the boxes, and you know, it's it's a lifelong mission 200 00:10:17,676 --> 00:10:18,436 Speaker 3: to try to get there. 201 00:10:18,756 --> 00:10:20,876 Speaker 1: Is it harder to do recording digitally? 202 00:10:22,476 --> 00:10:25,636 Speaker 3: Not necessarily. There's a whole lot of value and tape 203 00:10:25,716 --> 00:10:29,156 Speaker 3: and analog I love that, but it's slower. You better 204 00:10:29,196 --> 00:10:31,196 Speaker 3: be well rehearsed, and it's hard to edit if you 205 00:10:31,236 --> 00:10:33,476 Speaker 3: make a mistake. You know, that kind of stuff. But 206 00:10:33,956 --> 00:10:36,596 Speaker 3: I just think if you have a great band, a 207 00:10:36,676 --> 00:10:41,876 Speaker 3: great song, good instruments, great engineers, great microphones, and a 208 00:10:41,956 --> 00:10:45,636 Speaker 3: room that sounds good if you play it right, what 209 00:10:45,756 --> 00:10:49,076 Speaker 3: can go wrong if you capture it right? It's not 210 00:10:49,196 --> 00:10:52,316 Speaker 3: rocket science. It's just having a great piece of material 211 00:10:52,396 --> 00:10:53,516 Speaker 3: is the first and foremost thing. 212 00:10:53,556 --> 00:10:57,396 Speaker 1: Though, Oh it's rocket science, I think, or magic. What 213 00:10:57,556 --> 00:10:58,956 Speaker 1: was the room? Where did you record this? 214 00:10:59,116 --> 00:11:01,676 Speaker 3: We recorded this at East Aris Sound, which is still 215 00:11:01,676 --> 00:11:05,236 Speaker 3: a House of blues studio in Nashville, which you know 216 00:11:05,276 --> 00:11:07,476 Speaker 3: the room we're sitting in right now. It has a 217 00:11:07,596 --> 00:11:11,156 Speaker 3: music vibe to me. This is a creative box. And 218 00:11:11,236 --> 00:11:14,756 Speaker 3: so many studios are gorgeous and they're cost a good 219 00:11:14,876 --> 00:11:18,916 Speaker 3: jillion dollars and they're stiff and they're sterile. But I 220 00:11:18,956 --> 00:11:20,796 Speaker 3: love rooms like this that are just a little bit 221 00:11:20,836 --> 00:11:24,636 Speaker 3: funky that invites you in and say, you know, come on, 222 00:11:24,716 --> 00:11:25,516 Speaker 3: show me what you got. 223 00:11:25,556 --> 00:11:28,356 Speaker 1: This was an old bean sprout factory, was it initially? Yeah, 224 00:11:28,516 --> 00:11:30,956 Speaker 1: this was a Chinese part of town. How about so 225 00:11:30,996 --> 00:11:33,596 Speaker 1: they grew because you can grow bean sprouts in the dark, 226 00:11:33,876 --> 00:11:37,276 Speaker 1: so they would have these big pools with bean sprouts grinds. 227 00:11:37,396 --> 00:11:40,716 Speaker 3: Also, yeah, well, you go back to rooms like Sun 228 00:11:40,756 --> 00:11:44,076 Speaker 3: Records in Memphis. It's you know, half the size of 229 00:11:44,116 --> 00:11:47,796 Speaker 3: this room, probably, but there's something magic in those walls. 230 00:11:47,956 --> 00:11:51,036 Speaker 3: The little studio down in Muscle Shoals where they made 231 00:11:51,036 --> 00:11:53,996 Speaker 3: so many great records. Studio B in Nashville, it's just 232 00:11:54,036 --> 00:11:56,676 Speaker 3: a cinderblock building that was built for thirty thousand dollars, 233 00:11:56,756 --> 00:12:00,396 Speaker 3: but it still sounds better than everybody else's twenty million 234 00:12:00,436 --> 00:12:03,556 Speaker 3: dollar rooms. For some reason, there's just some rooms can't 235 00:12:03,556 --> 00:12:04,156 Speaker 3: be explained. 236 00:12:04,396 --> 00:12:06,756 Speaker 1: You do sound like Paul Simon because he was obsessed 237 00:12:06,796 --> 00:12:11,196 Speaker 1: with the slap back in the Sun studio and he 238 00:12:11,236 --> 00:12:13,236 Speaker 1: would play it for us and say, there are no 239 00:12:13,316 --> 00:12:15,956 Speaker 1: drums on this record. I know it sounds like there is, 240 00:12:15,996 --> 00:12:16,676 Speaker 1: but there isn't. 241 00:12:16,876 --> 00:12:20,636 Speaker 3: So my friend Cowboy Jack Clement was the engineer down 242 00:12:20,676 --> 00:12:24,356 Speaker 3: there for many years, and he talked about when they 243 00:12:24,396 --> 00:12:26,236 Speaker 3: would put out a record and it didn't sell, of 244 00:12:26,276 --> 00:12:29,116 Speaker 3: course they would return it to Sun and all of 245 00:12:29,156 --> 00:12:32,796 Speaker 3: a sudden, he says, they're just kept becoming. This growing 246 00:12:33,076 --> 00:12:36,596 Speaker 3: number of boxes along the walls of returned records in 247 00:12:36,636 --> 00:12:38,876 Speaker 3: the studio kept getting smaller and smaller. One day, Sam 248 00:12:38,916 --> 00:12:41,596 Speaker 3: Phillips came and said, get those out of here, and 249 00:12:41,636 --> 00:12:43,636 Speaker 3: when he did, it changed the sound. I said, get 250 00:12:43,676 --> 00:12:46,236 Speaker 3: them back in there, whatever it takes. 251 00:12:48,556 --> 00:12:51,476 Speaker 1: People often talk about the Beatles influence on you. I 252 00:12:51,516 --> 00:12:53,316 Speaker 1: don't know if you ever really spoken about it, but 253 00:12:53,356 --> 00:12:55,556 Speaker 1: you can certainly hear it. Certainly a lot of your 254 00:12:55,556 --> 00:12:59,156 Speaker 1: older songs. Were they an influence growing up for you? 255 00:12:59,196 --> 00:13:03,876 Speaker 3: No, it's really strange. I was a really really late 256 00:13:04,036 --> 00:13:08,676 Speaker 3: Beatles bloomer. You couldn't avoid it because they ruled the planet. 257 00:13:08,836 --> 00:13:11,756 Speaker 3: But in the early sixties when they were taking off, 258 00:13:12,556 --> 00:13:15,476 Speaker 3: the first three records Driver owned was Meet the Beatles, 259 00:13:16,476 --> 00:13:20,676 Speaker 3: The Fabulous Johnny Cash and Flatten Scrugs greatest hits, and 260 00:13:21,596 --> 00:13:24,996 Speaker 3: the Beatles entertained my feet. The other two entertained my heart. 261 00:13:25,356 --> 00:13:28,716 Speaker 3: And I gave my Beatles record away, wow. And I 262 00:13:28,716 --> 00:13:32,316 Speaker 3: always liked their songs, but I never went deep. And 263 00:13:32,676 --> 00:13:35,236 Speaker 3: there's all three of the guys in the superlatives are 264 00:13:35,596 --> 00:13:40,636 Speaker 3: Beatles officionados, and so they kind of drew me in 265 00:13:40,636 --> 00:13:43,516 Speaker 3: in the last four or five years. Actually, right, actually, 266 00:13:43,676 --> 00:13:46,596 Speaker 3: and so and I started listening to the Beatles channel 267 00:13:46,636 --> 00:13:49,876 Speaker 3: on the satellite radio, and what I noticed immediately was 268 00:13:49,916 --> 00:13:53,196 Speaker 3: the quality of the songs, just the power and the 269 00:13:53,236 --> 00:13:56,996 Speaker 3: timelessness of the songs. And the other thing I noticed. 270 00:13:56,996 --> 00:13:59,116 Speaker 3: You mentioned the drum sound on this new record was 271 00:13:59,236 --> 00:14:02,116 Speaker 3: the sound of Ringo's drums, and I was astounded to 272 00:14:02,156 --> 00:14:03,876 Speaker 3: find out that there are people out there that didn't 273 00:14:03,876 --> 00:14:06,116 Speaker 3: think Ringo was a great drummer. It's like, come on, 274 00:14:06,236 --> 00:14:08,356 Speaker 3: give me a break. He played the song. He is 275 00:14:08,396 --> 00:14:13,116 Speaker 3: a brilliant drummer. And we worked really hard on this record. 276 00:14:13,236 --> 00:14:15,756 Speaker 3: I think the song was sitting alone. I said, make 277 00:14:15,836 --> 00:14:18,196 Speaker 3: it sound like Ringo's drums, and we're there, and I 278 00:14:18,236 --> 00:14:20,956 Speaker 3: think Harry Stintson accomplished that with it. With the engineer 279 00:14:21,116 --> 00:14:21,716 Speaker 3: Nick Yeah. 280 00:14:22,116 --> 00:14:25,116 Speaker 1: Well, Ringo's left handed playing a right handed set, so 281 00:14:25,676 --> 00:14:28,236 Speaker 1: there's always he's always a little late, like he plays 282 00:14:28,276 --> 00:14:30,676 Speaker 1: late on the beat because he's got to hit his 283 00:14:30,756 --> 00:14:34,396 Speaker 1: right hand out of the way, which just makes that sound. 284 00:14:34,636 --> 00:14:34,836 Speaker 3: You know. 285 00:14:34,916 --> 00:14:37,716 Speaker 1: Certainly, when I hear something like don't leave her lonely 286 00:14:37,876 --> 00:14:40,676 Speaker 1: or thanks to You, I hear a real kind of 287 00:14:40,716 --> 00:14:43,676 Speaker 1: Beatles thing. So I'm amazed. That's it. 288 00:14:44,036 --> 00:14:46,556 Speaker 3: If it got on me, it was just again because 289 00:14:46,596 --> 00:14:50,036 Speaker 3: of the volume of their work and the intensity of 290 00:14:50,036 --> 00:14:54,276 Speaker 3: their work throughout the universe. But again, I truly became 291 00:14:54,316 --> 00:14:57,476 Speaker 3: a Beatles fan in the past five years. And I 292 00:14:57,556 --> 00:15:01,476 Speaker 3: loved the film Get Back. Was that the name of 293 00:15:01,596 --> 00:15:05,436 Speaker 3: the documentary. I watched the whole thing and just again 294 00:15:05,476 --> 00:15:08,116 Speaker 3: to see the process of the songs come together so 295 00:15:08,276 --> 00:15:10,596 Speaker 3: fast and the amount of work they put into it. 296 00:15:10,836 --> 00:15:12,756 Speaker 3: And I tell you what else drew me into the Beatles. 297 00:15:12,796 --> 00:15:14,876 Speaker 3: I had a night off we were on the road 298 00:15:14,916 --> 00:15:19,756 Speaker 3: in Vegas. I went to see love that production out 299 00:15:19,756 --> 00:15:23,116 Speaker 3: there and the way they used Beatles songs and Giles 300 00:15:23,156 --> 00:15:27,036 Speaker 3: Martin's remixing of those songs and just the way they 301 00:15:27,076 --> 00:15:29,236 Speaker 3: brought it in and I left there again it was 302 00:15:29,276 --> 00:15:31,716 Speaker 3: just another layer of wonder going, how did those boys 303 00:15:31,756 --> 00:15:34,676 Speaker 3: do that? I look at their body of work, Hank 304 00:15:34,716 --> 00:15:38,756 Speaker 3: Williams's body of work, and those kind of guys, Jimmy Hendrix, 305 00:15:39,316 --> 00:15:43,036 Speaker 3: they weren't here very long, and what they left behind. 306 00:15:43,836 --> 00:15:45,356 Speaker 3: I don't know how you live up to that kind 307 00:15:45,396 --> 00:15:48,796 Speaker 3: of work that comes that fast, and it is that profound. 308 00:15:49,716 --> 00:15:52,676 Speaker 1: Your music came fast. You were like a prodigy when 309 00:15:52,716 --> 00:15:55,236 Speaker 1: you were a kid. What started first? The mandolin of 310 00:15:55,316 --> 00:15:56,356 Speaker 1: the guitar, guitar? 311 00:15:56,996 --> 00:15:59,196 Speaker 3: I love the guitar, I just I mean my hero 312 00:15:59,436 --> 00:16:02,756 Speaker 3: was Luther Perkins, who played in Johnny Cash's band, Roy 313 00:16:02,836 --> 00:16:05,676 Speaker 3: Nichols who played in Merle Haggard's band, Ralph Mooney who 314 00:16:05,676 --> 00:16:09,876 Speaker 3: played the steel guitar out there at those times. Those 315 00:16:09,876 --> 00:16:11,996 Speaker 3: were the guys that I kind of kept my eye 316 00:16:12,036 --> 00:16:15,316 Speaker 3: on as a kid. I loved the ventures, love surf music, 317 00:16:16,196 --> 00:16:20,276 Speaker 3: Don Rich who played with Buck Owens. Those were telecaster cowboys, 318 00:16:20,556 --> 00:16:23,436 Speaker 3: and I liked what they were up to. And then 319 00:16:23,556 --> 00:16:26,076 Speaker 3: when I was twelve years old, I bought a seventy 320 00:16:26,116 --> 00:16:28,596 Speaker 3: eight RPM record at a junk store of Bill Monroe 321 00:16:28,636 --> 00:16:31,356 Speaker 3: and the Bluegrass Boys Quartet, and I fell in love 322 00:16:31,356 --> 00:16:34,476 Speaker 3: with the mandolin, and my guitar went under the stereo 323 00:16:34,596 --> 00:16:36,916 Speaker 3: for two or three years, and I went to the mandolin, 324 00:16:37,636 --> 00:16:40,796 Speaker 3: But that part of it seemed to kind of come naturally. 325 00:16:41,356 --> 00:16:44,396 Speaker 3: But as here comes the songwriting layer, then here comes 326 00:16:44,436 --> 00:16:46,756 Speaker 3: you have to learn to sing layer, then produce records 327 00:16:46,756 --> 00:16:48,916 Speaker 3: if you're going to do it. So it's been a 328 00:16:48,956 --> 00:16:51,476 Speaker 3: lifelong process. 329 00:16:51,676 --> 00:16:54,196 Speaker 1: Was your family musical what led you to the guitar. 330 00:16:54,396 --> 00:16:57,956 Speaker 3: My grandpa, Stuart was a scratchy old Mississippi backwoods fiddle player, 331 00:16:58,956 --> 00:17:03,276 Speaker 3: and my mom played a little pianot church, and everybody 332 00:17:03,356 --> 00:17:05,356 Speaker 3: loved music at our house more than they played it. 333 00:17:05,876 --> 00:17:09,836 Speaker 3: But our home on Saturday nights, when I I already playing, 334 00:17:10,236 --> 00:17:12,076 Speaker 3: people in the community would come by and we would 335 00:17:12,076 --> 00:17:15,236 Speaker 3: play country music, you know, sing those kind of songs. 336 00:17:15,556 --> 00:17:17,876 Speaker 3: And after church on Sunday night, sometimes people would come 337 00:17:17,876 --> 00:17:19,676 Speaker 3: to our house for coffee and there was a piano 338 00:17:19,716 --> 00:17:22,876 Speaker 3: and they would sing gospel songs. So there was always 339 00:17:22,956 --> 00:17:24,156 Speaker 3: music floating around the house. 340 00:17:25,116 --> 00:17:29,996 Speaker 1: And then how did you end up touring with Lester Flatt? 341 00:17:30,636 --> 00:17:32,916 Speaker 3: I went on the road in the summer of nineteen 342 00:17:32,996 --> 00:17:35,436 Speaker 3: seventy two. I was twelve years old, and there was 343 00:17:36,036 --> 00:17:39,876 Speaker 3: a regional band called the Sullivan Family Gospel Singers who 344 00:17:39,916 --> 00:17:44,116 Speaker 3: were bluegrass gospel singers, and they had a television broadcast 345 00:17:44,276 --> 00:17:47,556 Speaker 3: that came from Jackson, Mississippi, and they were cool looking 346 00:17:47,596 --> 00:17:51,796 Speaker 3: people and they played spirited music and I just kind 347 00:17:51,796 --> 00:17:56,356 Speaker 3: of liked the Sullivan's thing. And my buddy Carl Jackson, 348 00:17:56,356 --> 00:17:59,276 Speaker 3: who was a professional musician in that part of the Mississippi, 349 00:17:59,356 --> 00:18:01,316 Speaker 3: I was playing some shows with him and they played 350 00:18:01,356 --> 00:18:04,996 Speaker 3: a church about a mile from our house and I 351 00:18:05,036 --> 00:18:07,116 Speaker 3: call Carl said, do you think mister Sullivan would let 352 00:18:07,156 --> 00:18:09,036 Speaker 3: me get up and play a song on the mandolin? Lot? 353 00:18:09,276 --> 00:18:11,916 Speaker 3: Ask him, and the word came back, yeah, come on. 354 00:18:12,556 --> 00:18:15,596 Speaker 3: So I played that night and people applauded and stomped 355 00:18:15,596 --> 00:18:19,156 Speaker 3: their feet for me, and I got the bug. And 356 00:18:19,236 --> 00:18:21,636 Speaker 3: as the summer approached, Carl said, I said, what are 357 00:18:21,636 --> 00:18:22,996 Speaker 3: you doing this summer? I'm gonna go out and play 358 00:18:22,996 --> 00:18:26,236 Speaker 3: shows with the Sullivan family. They were playing camp meeting 359 00:18:26,316 --> 00:18:30,796 Speaker 3: revivals and bluegrass festivals and George Wallace campaign rallies. And 360 00:18:30,876 --> 00:18:32,916 Speaker 3: I said, he's all right, Yeah, I said, do you 361 00:18:32,956 --> 00:18:35,316 Speaker 3: think that I could go along as well? I'll ask 362 00:18:35,396 --> 00:18:38,316 Speaker 3: And so that was my stepping off place into the world, 363 00:18:39,036 --> 00:18:41,236 Speaker 3: going on the road. So I was twelve years old 364 00:18:41,876 --> 00:18:44,476 Speaker 3: and that summer I toured with the Sullivan family gospel 365 00:18:44,476 --> 00:18:46,996 Speaker 3: singers throughout the back roads of the South, and we 366 00:18:47,076 --> 00:18:51,996 Speaker 3: played those places I just talked about and I discovered applause, 367 00:18:52,196 --> 00:18:54,876 Speaker 3: the spotlight. You can talk about music twenty four hours 368 00:18:54,876 --> 00:18:56,836 Speaker 3: a day. You can wear your hair and your clothes 369 00:18:56,916 --> 00:18:59,876 Speaker 3: any way you want to, and be around bohemian people 370 00:18:59,956 --> 00:19:03,556 Speaker 3: that know nothing other than music, music, music, music. And 371 00:19:03,716 --> 00:19:05,476 Speaker 3: I fell in love with all that that summer and 372 00:19:05,556 --> 00:19:07,476 Speaker 3: probably made twenty one dollars I don't know. 373 00:19:07,716 --> 00:19:09,436 Speaker 1: And you were on the bus every night, well, they 374 00:19:09,476 --> 00:19:09,996 Speaker 1: were in a car. 375 00:19:10,116 --> 00:19:12,116 Speaker 3: There were six of us cent a station wagon with 376 00:19:12,156 --> 00:19:14,596 Speaker 3: the bass fiddle in there and the records and the costumes. 377 00:19:14,716 --> 00:19:14,996 Speaker 1: Wow. 378 00:19:15,396 --> 00:19:18,796 Speaker 3: And I thought it was wonderful, absolutely wonderful. I would 379 00:19:18,836 --> 00:19:21,796 Speaker 3: have paid him be in there. And so at the 380 00:19:21,916 --> 00:19:23,796 Speaker 3: end of that summer I had to go back home 381 00:19:23,836 --> 00:19:25,996 Speaker 3: and go to school, and it was like being dropped 382 00:19:26,036 --> 00:19:28,396 Speaker 3: off by the circus at the edge of town. And 383 00:19:28,436 --> 00:19:30,756 Speaker 3: it killed me. It killed me because I knew that 384 00:19:30,836 --> 00:19:34,196 Speaker 3: the band was out there playing. There was applause and 385 00:19:34,396 --> 00:19:37,756 Speaker 3: girls and needed autographs signed, you know, the big things 386 00:19:37,756 --> 00:19:41,636 Speaker 3: of life. And about two weeks into the ninth grade, 387 00:19:41,796 --> 00:19:44,476 Speaker 3: I was falling apart. I just I was a pitiful 388 00:19:44,476 --> 00:19:47,676 Speaker 3: excuse for a student. I took a country music song Roundup, 389 00:19:47,676 --> 00:19:50,476 Speaker 3: which is a popular publication at the time, stuck it 390 00:19:50,476 --> 00:19:52,636 Speaker 3: in the middle of my history book and I was 391 00:19:52,676 --> 00:19:56,196 Speaker 3: reading it, and my history teacher snuck up behind me 392 00:19:56,476 --> 00:19:58,156 Speaker 3: or just kind of eased that behind me and knocked 393 00:19:58,156 --> 00:19:59,476 Speaker 3: it out of my hands. She said, if you get 394 00:19:59,476 --> 00:20:02,676 Speaker 3: your mind off that garbage and get your mind onto history, 395 00:20:02,716 --> 00:20:06,436 Speaker 3: you might make something of yourself, to which the genius replied, 396 00:20:06,716 --> 00:20:09,756 Speaker 3: I'd rather make history than learn about it. Dismissed. 397 00:20:09,836 --> 00:20:12,036 Speaker 1: Pretty good, Yeah, pretty good, dismissed. 398 00:20:12,396 --> 00:20:15,556 Speaker 3: So I went home and called my mom, and I 399 00:20:15,596 --> 00:20:18,076 Speaker 3: called a buddy of mine who worked with Lester Flat 400 00:20:18,116 --> 00:20:19,876 Speaker 3: at the Grand Obberry, who I had met on the 401 00:20:19,876 --> 00:20:23,596 Speaker 3: circuit the previous summer. He said, call me sometimes, maybe 402 00:20:23,596 --> 00:20:27,196 Speaker 3: you could ride the bus with us, and so I begged. 403 00:20:27,516 --> 00:20:30,196 Speaker 3: Lester said yes, and I begged for one weekend, one 404 00:20:30,236 --> 00:20:32,676 Speaker 3: weekend to go up to Nashville. And I went on 405 00:20:32,716 --> 00:20:35,236 Speaker 3: the bus with Leicester Flat and his guys to Glasgow, Delaware, 406 00:20:35,276 --> 00:20:38,396 Speaker 3: to a bluegrass festival for two days. And Lester heard 407 00:20:38,396 --> 00:20:39,676 Speaker 3: me play it in the back of the bus, and 408 00:20:39,676 --> 00:20:43,076 Speaker 3: he put me on the show and the crowd liked it, 409 00:20:43,316 --> 00:20:45,396 Speaker 3: and I could see his wheels turning, the old businessman 410 00:20:45,476 --> 00:20:48,956 Speaker 3: going a new kid, new energy, you know. And at 411 00:20:48,956 --> 00:20:50,676 Speaker 3: the end of the weekend he offered me a job, 412 00:20:50,716 --> 00:20:52,436 Speaker 3: and next thing I know, I was gone. 413 00:20:52,916 --> 00:20:55,076 Speaker 1: That was it, That was it. That was that day 414 00:20:55,116 --> 00:20:57,556 Speaker 1: in history class, your last day of school. 415 00:20:58,356 --> 00:21:02,276 Speaker 3: I was supposed to take a correspondence course, which was 416 00:21:02,716 --> 00:21:07,596 Speaker 3: pretty useless. So I've since become a road scholar. 417 00:21:07,716 --> 00:21:11,676 Speaker 1: Bruce, what were you playing? Were you soloing back down 418 00:21:11,716 --> 00:21:14,276 Speaker 1: at the mandolin? Were you doing we singing? 419 00:21:14,516 --> 00:21:17,956 Speaker 3: I was playing mandolin and guitar. I played guitar because 420 00:21:18,036 --> 00:21:20,436 Speaker 3: Roland White played the mandolin, and they would hand me 421 00:21:20,476 --> 00:21:22,436 Speaker 3: the mandlin and feature me on a couple of tunes. 422 00:21:23,236 --> 00:21:25,916 Speaker 3: And I think what sealed the deal is Lester played 423 00:21:25,916 --> 00:21:28,436 Speaker 3: at the Grand ol Opry and I begged my parents 424 00:21:29,316 --> 00:21:31,316 Speaker 3: to let me stay one more weekend and Leicester said 425 00:21:31,316 --> 00:21:32,836 Speaker 3: I could play at the Grand Old Opry with him. 426 00:21:32,876 --> 00:21:34,876 Speaker 3: He had offered me this job. And they were going, no, no, no, 427 00:21:34,916 --> 00:21:36,996 Speaker 3: you have come up and go to school. But no 428 00:21:37,236 --> 00:21:40,396 Speaker 3: self respecting family in the South would deny their child 429 00:21:40,996 --> 00:21:43,716 Speaker 3: a place on the Grand Old Opry, you know. So 430 00:21:43,876 --> 00:21:45,996 Speaker 3: they let me play and at the end of the song. 431 00:21:46,116 --> 00:21:49,756 Speaker 3: The crowd just kept applauding and just kept applauding, and 432 00:21:50,396 --> 00:21:52,476 Speaker 3: I thought I'd done something wrong on Electric Lester. So 433 00:21:52,556 --> 00:21:54,996 Speaker 3: what do I do? He said, do it again. So 434 00:21:55,316 --> 00:21:58,236 Speaker 3: we on court and my family met with him the 435 00:21:58,236 --> 00:22:00,836 Speaker 3: next weekend and they worked out all the arrangements and 436 00:22:00,916 --> 00:22:01,556 Speaker 3: I went to work. 437 00:22:01,836 --> 00:22:03,156 Speaker 1: I man, what kind of guy was he? 438 00:22:04,476 --> 00:22:08,996 Speaker 3: Lester was like a country preacher. Perhaps he was cool 439 00:22:09,356 --> 00:22:13,956 Speaker 3: as Miles Davis laid back again. One of the master 440 00:22:14,116 --> 00:22:17,196 Speaker 3: architects of the whole culture, one of the pioneers of 441 00:22:17,236 --> 00:22:19,316 Speaker 3: it all. He's been there, seeing it, done it all. 442 00:22:20,276 --> 00:22:22,676 Speaker 3: And I don't think my mom and dad would let 443 00:22:22,716 --> 00:22:24,316 Speaker 3: me go on the road with a metal band, But 444 00:22:24,476 --> 00:22:27,356 Speaker 3: with him, it was a different set of circumstances. And 445 00:22:27,396 --> 00:22:29,636 Speaker 3: he and his wife welcomed me into their home because 446 00:22:29,676 --> 00:22:32,916 Speaker 3: my folks still lived in Mississippi and continued to do 447 00:22:32,956 --> 00:22:34,996 Speaker 3: so for a couple of years, and they made me 448 00:22:35,036 --> 00:22:38,396 Speaker 3: feel welcome when I was looked after and taken care of. 449 00:22:38,476 --> 00:22:42,076 Speaker 3: And you know, business was business. Moneyment went back home 450 00:22:42,556 --> 00:22:44,036 Speaker 3: to my mom. I got to keep a little bit 451 00:22:44,036 --> 00:22:46,476 Speaker 3: every week to buy records and eat with But that was, 452 00:22:46,596 --> 00:22:49,636 Speaker 3: you know, it was it was a structured deal. He 453 00:22:49,796 --> 00:22:51,916 Speaker 3: taught me the business of the music business. 454 00:22:52,596 --> 00:22:53,996 Speaker 1: What did you learn about the business? 455 00:22:54,836 --> 00:22:57,436 Speaker 3: He and Eal Scrugs when they were partners. And you 456 00:22:57,516 --> 00:23:00,116 Speaker 3: have to remember this is at a time when the 457 00:23:00,116 --> 00:23:04,916 Speaker 3: country music industry was played in schoolhouses and fairgrounds and 458 00:23:05,076 --> 00:23:08,916 Speaker 3: you know, grange halls and civic auditoriums. There was none 459 00:23:08,956 --> 00:23:12,716 Speaker 3: of the stuff that's happening now. There was nothing corporate 460 00:23:12,756 --> 00:23:16,316 Speaker 3: about the country music world. It was an industry by 461 00:23:16,396 --> 00:23:19,396 Speaker 3: all means, and it was a well organized industry, but 462 00:23:19,436 --> 00:23:21,916 Speaker 3: it was a mom and pop industry. But Lester was 463 00:23:21,956 --> 00:23:23,636 Speaker 3: one of those guys that taught me, if I owe 464 00:23:23,636 --> 00:23:26,556 Speaker 3: you a nickel, you know, you pay me. But if 465 00:23:26,556 --> 00:23:28,516 Speaker 3: he owes me and nickel, he's going to come across 466 00:23:28,516 --> 00:23:30,476 Speaker 3: town to give it to. He gave me a great 467 00:23:30,516 --> 00:23:33,196 Speaker 3: piece of advice on the day hired me. He said, 468 00:23:34,076 --> 00:23:36,876 Speaker 3: it's not about coming to this town or anybody's town 469 00:23:37,236 --> 00:23:40,396 Speaker 3: and being the most popular person and taking all the 470 00:23:40,436 --> 00:23:45,036 Speaker 3: money and all the awards and being forgotten in two years. 471 00:23:45,636 --> 00:23:47,716 Speaker 3: He said, what you really want to work on is 472 00:23:47,796 --> 00:23:51,236 Speaker 3: being welcome every January the first and being a part 473 00:23:51,276 --> 00:23:53,756 Speaker 3: of the whole story. I went, yes, sir, and I 474 00:23:53,836 --> 00:23:56,836 Speaker 3: knew what he was talking about. But whether it was 475 00:23:56,956 --> 00:23:59,876 Speaker 3: money or that kind of advice, or just how to 476 00:24:00,116 --> 00:24:04,436 Speaker 3: run a show, how to make records, whatever, Lester was 477 00:24:04,916 --> 00:24:07,436 Speaker 3: at the forefront of a lot of things, and he 478 00:24:07,556 --> 00:24:09,796 Speaker 3: was just one of it. It was I would think 479 00:24:09,836 --> 00:24:12,156 Speaker 3: it would be a little luck hanging out with Louis Armstrong. 480 00:24:12,676 --> 00:24:14,516 Speaker 3: He could tell you about anything you needed to know 481 00:24:15,196 --> 00:24:16,516 Speaker 3: from a hard earned perspective. 482 00:24:17,236 --> 00:24:19,716 Speaker 1: Yea, did he ever talk about his days with Earl 483 00:24:19,756 --> 00:24:20,916 Speaker 1: Scrugs all the time? 484 00:24:21,596 --> 00:24:25,756 Speaker 3: All the time they had a bitter breakup in nineteen 485 00:24:25,836 --> 00:24:28,996 Speaker 3: sixty nine, unless there was one of those guys. When 486 00:24:28,996 --> 00:24:31,116 Speaker 3: he told a story, it was word for word. If 487 00:24:31,116 --> 00:24:34,076 Speaker 3: he told it forty times, I go, here comes the comma, 488 00:24:34,516 --> 00:24:37,316 Speaker 3: here comes the next word. He verbate him, so you 489 00:24:37,356 --> 00:24:40,316 Speaker 3: could hang your hat on it. And I knew that 490 00:24:41,036 --> 00:24:44,636 Speaker 3: he and Earl just creative differences. It had run its course. 491 00:24:44,676 --> 00:24:49,196 Speaker 3: They had been partners since the forties. They started together 492 00:24:49,236 --> 00:24:51,596 Speaker 3: in bill Monrose Bend, and they emerged from there and 493 00:24:51,596 --> 00:24:55,956 Speaker 3: became flatten Strokes, arguably the most successful bluegrass do in history. 494 00:24:57,076 --> 00:25:00,836 Speaker 3: And said all the standards that we still follow. But 495 00:25:01,436 --> 00:25:05,836 Speaker 3: the times ran their course. But I knew that they 496 00:25:05,876 --> 00:25:09,356 Speaker 3: were basically the same guy in a lot of ways. 497 00:25:09,956 --> 00:25:12,676 Speaker 3: I knew that they had helped invent each other's persona. 498 00:25:13,476 --> 00:25:15,476 Speaker 3: I knew that they had helped write the rules to 499 00:25:15,516 --> 00:25:17,476 Speaker 3: show business. So I knew there was a lot in common. 500 00:25:18,436 --> 00:25:23,156 Speaker 3: And Lester got sick when he was sixty three sixty. 501 00:25:23,476 --> 00:25:26,556 Speaker 3: He died when he was sixty four, and Bob Dylan 502 00:25:26,676 --> 00:25:29,196 Speaker 3: came through town. I went to see him, and he said, 503 00:25:29,516 --> 00:25:32,556 Speaker 3: did Lester and I will ever talk anymore? I went, They're 504 00:25:32,556 --> 00:25:34,316 Speaker 3: always going to get around to it, but that never 505 00:25:34,436 --> 00:25:38,876 Speaker 3: quite happens. And Bob said, that's sad. Haven't costellover that way? 506 00:25:38,876 --> 00:25:40,316 Speaker 3: The little fact guy was going to go see the 507 00:25:40,316 --> 00:25:43,556 Speaker 3: other guy. That never happened. And this feeling came in 508 00:25:43,556 --> 00:25:46,356 Speaker 3: and Lester was in the hospital, and this feeling came 509 00:25:46,476 --> 00:25:49,516 Speaker 3: up in my stomach when Bob said that, and I said, 510 00:25:49,556 --> 00:25:52,716 Speaker 3: I gotta go, and I went outside to a payphone 511 00:25:52,836 --> 00:25:55,236 Speaker 3: and I got Earl Scruggs number. And I did not 512 00:25:55,396 --> 00:25:58,156 Speaker 3: know Earl Scruggs. I had never met him. It was 513 00:25:58,196 --> 00:26:01,756 Speaker 3: the other camp. It was the enemy camp, right, But 514 00:26:01,956 --> 00:26:05,356 Speaker 3: I called in Earl's wife, Louise, who was the manager, 515 00:26:05,476 --> 00:26:11,396 Speaker 3: and a really cold act on the telephone. I said, Louise, 516 00:26:12,156 --> 00:26:14,036 Speaker 3: this is Marty Stewart. I'd like to talk to her. 517 00:26:14,076 --> 00:26:17,996 Speaker 3: What about? I said, it's personal. Earl came on the 518 00:26:18,036 --> 00:26:19,636 Speaker 3: fine I said, Earl, this is Marty's to it. He said, 519 00:26:19,636 --> 00:26:21,316 Speaker 3: I know who you are. He said, I like your play. 520 00:26:21,836 --> 00:26:24,516 Speaker 3: I listened to you. I went, thank you, sir. I said, 521 00:26:24,516 --> 00:26:27,236 Speaker 3: I really need to come talk to you. So I 522 00:26:27,316 --> 00:26:29,596 Speaker 3: left Bob's show and went to see Earl Louise and 523 00:26:29,636 --> 00:26:32,316 Speaker 3: it was like sitting in a museum because they were 524 00:26:32,356 --> 00:26:36,876 Speaker 3: just sitting there viewing a painting. And I said, Luster's dying. 525 00:26:37,996 --> 00:26:39,556 Speaker 3: I said, I don't know that he'll make it through 526 00:26:39,596 --> 00:26:43,276 Speaker 3: the weekend. I said, I think the last thing in 527 00:26:43,316 --> 00:26:44,876 Speaker 3: this world that needs to happen is for him to 528 00:26:44,956 --> 00:26:48,476 Speaker 3: leave this earth without you guys see him by. And 529 00:26:48,516 --> 00:26:50,956 Speaker 3: I was shaking, like I mean, I was told you 530 00:26:51,356 --> 00:26:55,316 Speaker 3: I was maybe seventeen eighteen, and I was shaking. I mean, 531 00:26:55,516 --> 00:26:58,276 Speaker 3: I was shaking. And I said, if you need the 532 00:26:58,316 --> 00:27:01,396 Speaker 3: halls cleared, I'll go to work on it. Whatever you need. 533 00:27:01,516 --> 00:27:03,316 Speaker 3: I said, but if you would see fit to go 534 00:27:03,396 --> 00:27:07,316 Speaker 3: see him, I think it's great. He said, I'll think 535 00:27:07,356 --> 00:27:10,636 Speaker 3: about it. And I wrote down the room number and 536 00:27:11,116 --> 00:27:13,636 Speaker 3: the Lester's band. We had to go out and play 537 00:27:13,716 --> 00:27:17,116 Speaker 3: three concerts that the promoter wouldn't let us out at. 538 00:27:17,156 --> 00:27:19,436 Speaker 3: We went as Lester's band. So when we pulled back 539 00:27:19,476 --> 00:27:23,316 Speaker 3: in the parking lot, Lester's manager was standing there waiting 540 00:27:23,356 --> 00:27:25,596 Speaker 3: on the bus three days later, and he had tears 541 00:27:25,636 --> 00:27:29,076 Speaker 3: in his asses with Earlwin and saw Lester and they 542 00:27:29,236 --> 00:27:33,676 Speaker 3: settled up on the way out. And so that was 543 00:27:33,716 --> 00:27:35,916 Speaker 3: a good story. That was a good, good, good ending 544 00:27:35,916 --> 00:27:37,956 Speaker 3: to that story. I'm glad I got to be a 545 00:27:37,956 --> 00:27:38,996 Speaker 3: small part of that. 546 00:27:38,996 --> 00:27:42,756 Speaker 1: That's a great story. After that, you played, You played 547 00:27:42,756 --> 00:27:44,716 Speaker 1: with a couple of people. He played with Vaster Clemens, 548 00:27:44,756 --> 00:27:48,276 Speaker 1: who's this sort of fascinating character. Can you tell me 549 00:27:48,356 --> 00:27:49,396 Speaker 1: a little bit about him. 550 00:27:49,556 --> 00:27:51,596 Speaker 3: I fell in love with Vasser by way of that 551 00:27:51,716 --> 00:27:54,556 Speaker 3: nitty gritty dirt band record, Circle Be Unbroken, Volume one. 552 00:27:55,596 --> 00:27:58,036 Speaker 3: He just played this bluesy style fiddle that I had 553 00:27:58,076 --> 00:28:01,116 Speaker 3: never heard before. And coming from Mississippi, you know, everything 554 00:28:01,156 --> 00:28:04,556 Speaker 3: starts with the blues, and he put the blues and 555 00:28:04,676 --> 00:28:08,596 Speaker 3: blue grass to me, very soulful. And I met him 556 00:28:08,596 --> 00:28:10,436 Speaker 3: and he was easy to hang out with. But Vassar 557 00:28:10,636 --> 00:28:12,996 Speaker 3: was off into this. He had been playing some with 558 00:28:13,036 --> 00:28:16,596 Speaker 3: the grateful dead. He'd been playing some with the Circle 559 00:28:16,636 --> 00:28:18,636 Speaker 3: Record made him a star with all these you know, 560 00:28:19,036 --> 00:28:23,076 Speaker 3: younger bands and cool bands, and anybody would welcome Vassar 561 00:28:23,156 --> 00:28:24,996 Speaker 3: to come hang out and play with him. But he 562 00:28:25,076 --> 00:28:28,236 Speaker 3: had this country jazz fusion thing going. And I wanted 563 00:28:28,276 --> 00:28:31,556 Speaker 3: to get away from bluegrass and started spreading my wings 564 00:28:31,596 --> 00:28:34,876 Speaker 3: and so, but vasser still understood bluegrass because that's where 565 00:28:34,876 --> 00:28:37,796 Speaker 3: he came from. So I bought an electric guitar and 566 00:28:37,876 --> 00:28:39,436 Speaker 3: did not know how to play it, but he gave 567 00:28:39,436 --> 00:28:42,436 Speaker 3: me a job. I don't know why, but I worked 568 00:28:42,476 --> 00:28:44,876 Speaker 3: with him for a few minutes, and we crossed paths 569 00:28:44,916 --> 00:28:48,036 Speaker 3: with doctor Merle Watson on the road that summer, and 570 00:28:48,956 --> 00:28:50,956 Speaker 3: I asked Merle Watson if I could come hang out. 571 00:28:51,036 --> 00:28:52,596 Speaker 3: So I worked with them for a while. 572 00:28:53,156 --> 00:28:54,556 Speaker 1: You sold your electric guitar. 573 00:28:54,676 --> 00:28:58,276 Speaker 3: No, I can't put him, and still still went back 574 00:28:58,316 --> 00:29:02,796 Speaker 3: under the back, under the stereo, that's where it always goes. 575 00:29:03,556 --> 00:29:08,476 Speaker 3: Then Johnny Cash's gig came along, So those really Lester 576 00:29:09,196 --> 00:29:11,996 Speaker 3: and Johnny Cash. With only two steady gigs I ever had, 577 00:29:12,236 --> 00:29:14,556 Speaker 3: which goes back to the first two records ever owned. 578 00:29:14,636 --> 00:29:18,356 Speaker 1: And how did that come about? With Johnny Cash? 579 00:29:18,636 --> 00:29:21,596 Speaker 3: I had one day left with Doc and Merroll Watson. 580 00:29:21,956 --> 00:29:25,476 Speaker 3: We were in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. It was a two 581 00:29:25,516 --> 00:29:29,036 Speaker 3: show day and I went back to the and I 582 00:29:29,036 --> 00:29:32,196 Speaker 3: had no idea after I flew back to Nashville where 583 00:29:32,236 --> 00:29:34,676 Speaker 3: I was going to head, what I was going to do. 584 00:29:35,636 --> 00:29:38,156 Speaker 3: There was a guitar player, great guy named Lonnie Mack 585 00:29:38,196 --> 00:29:41,356 Speaker 3: could call me about maybe talking to Rush, and I 586 00:29:41,396 --> 00:29:44,476 Speaker 3: said yeah. And I was flirting with going to California 587 00:29:44,596 --> 00:29:47,076 Speaker 3: to see if Bob Dilan would hire me as a 588 00:29:47,076 --> 00:29:50,876 Speaker 3: band member. And all those were just blue sky ideals. 589 00:29:51,796 --> 00:29:54,396 Speaker 3: But I went back to the hotel after the first 590 00:29:54,436 --> 00:29:57,636 Speaker 3: show in Cedar Rapid, and remember when hotel phones had 591 00:29:57,636 --> 00:29:59,236 Speaker 3: red lights on them, like. There was a message at 592 00:29:59,276 --> 00:30:01,516 Speaker 3: the front desk and it was from my mom and 593 00:30:01,596 --> 00:30:05,036 Speaker 3: she said, Johnny Cash is guitar player Bob Wooton is 594 00:30:05,076 --> 00:30:08,276 Speaker 3: looking for you. And I had met John a few 595 00:30:08,276 --> 00:30:13,436 Speaker 3: weeks to that at Cowboy Jack Clement's studio. A buddy 596 00:30:13,436 --> 00:30:15,076 Speaker 3: of mine had built him a guitar, and I kept 597 00:30:15,116 --> 00:30:17,556 Speaker 3: up with the progress of the guitar and went with 598 00:30:17,676 --> 00:30:20,596 Speaker 3: him to deliver it, just to meet my old hero, 599 00:30:21,956 --> 00:30:24,556 Speaker 3: and so we hit it off. John and I absolutely 600 00:30:24,596 --> 00:30:27,116 Speaker 3: hit it off that first first handshake, he just kept 601 00:30:27,156 --> 00:30:29,916 Speaker 3: shaking my hand and go, where are you being? I went, 602 00:30:29,996 --> 00:30:32,156 Speaker 3: getting ready? He said where are you from? I went 603 00:30:32,196 --> 00:30:36,036 Speaker 3: Mississippi when I thought so, and lightning kind of struck 604 00:30:36,076 --> 00:30:41,356 Speaker 3: and it just we were pals immediately, and back to 605 00:30:41,556 --> 00:30:44,636 Speaker 3: the doctor roll Watson thing. So by called Bob woot 606 00:30:44,636 --> 00:30:45,956 Speaker 3: and he says, John wants to know if you'd be 607 00:30:46,036 --> 00:30:48,796 Speaker 3: interested in going to work in our band. I went absolutely. 608 00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:52,516 Speaker 3: I said, what are you thinking about me? Starting? He went, 609 00:30:52,596 --> 00:30:55,636 Speaker 3: how about tomorrow? He said where are you? I went 610 00:30:55,716 --> 00:30:58,516 Speaker 3: Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I said where are you guys? He 611 00:30:58,556 --> 00:31:01,276 Speaker 3: went Des Moines, Iowa. So it was a two hour 612 00:31:02,036 --> 00:31:05,076 Speaker 3: rental car ride and I went over there to the hotel, 613 00:31:05,276 --> 00:31:09,436 Speaker 3: showed up. He said we have a matinee show. So 614 00:31:09,636 --> 00:31:13,196 Speaker 3: I'm going to the lobby and Bob Wuoten met me, 615 00:31:13,556 --> 00:31:15,396 Speaker 3: got me settled in. He said we leave here at 616 00:31:15,876 --> 00:31:18,516 Speaker 3: one o'clock or whatever the deal was. I went and 617 00:31:18,516 --> 00:31:20,916 Speaker 3: sat down in the restaurant and the major d came 618 00:31:20,956 --> 00:31:22,716 Speaker 3: and said, mister Cash is on the phone for you. 619 00:31:24,076 --> 00:31:26,356 Speaker 3: I went, all right, so I got it. He said, hello, son, 620 00:31:26,396 --> 00:31:29,076 Speaker 3: how are you fine? Glad to be here? He said, 621 00:31:29,076 --> 00:31:30,996 Speaker 3: We're glad to have you. He said, do you have 622 00:31:31,036 --> 00:31:34,476 Speaker 3: anything black to where? I went probably, And he said 623 00:31:34,716 --> 00:31:37,236 Speaker 3: do you know all my songs? I went probably? Do 624 00:31:37,316 --> 00:31:39,076 Speaker 3: you do still do them in the same key? And 625 00:31:39,076 --> 00:31:42,476 Speaker 3: he went probably? And he says, well lot good. He says, 626 00:31:42,836 --> 00:31:44,836 Speaker 3: I'm probably going to take a nap and I'll probably 627 00:31:44,876 --> 00:31:46,996 Speaker 3: see it a few minutes. Click, and that was it. 628 00:31:47,436 --> 00:31:49,156 Speaker 3: And the next thing I know, I'm on stage and 629 00:31:49,196 --> 00:31:50,996 Speaker 3: he walked out and said hello, I'm Johnny Cash and 630 00:31:50,996 --> 00:31:56,756 Speaker 3: we went I was in. That was the whole deal. 631 00:31:56,956 --> 00:31:58,516 Speaker 1: Were you playing the lead parts? 632 00:31:58,676 --> 00:32:01,596 Speaker 3: No, Bob Wuten was playing the lead and I took 633 00:32:02,036 --> 00:32:05,196 Speaker 3: a mandolin and I had my acoustic guitar and my 634 00:32:05,236 --> 00:32:08,196 Speaker 3: electric guitar with me, and he asked me if I 635 00:32:08,196 --> 00:32:10,756 Speaker 3: played the fiddle. I went, oh, yeah, that was a 636 00:32:10,796 --> 00:32:15,476 Speaker 3: total lie. But I wasn't played the fiddle barely barely barely. 637 00:32:15,236 --> 00:32:16,436 Speaker 1: Same tuning as amandolin. 638 00:32:16,596 --> 00:32:19,556 Speaker 3: Yeah, but still it's as you know, it's another world. Yeah. 639 00:32:19,956 --> 00:32:22,276 Speaker 3: But he played this song called Arne Blossom Special and 640 00:32:22,316 --> 00:32:25,076 Speaker 3: it's always played the key of E, but he does 641 00:32:25,116 --> 00:32:26,676 Speaker 3: it in the key of C because he played the 642 00:32:26,676 --> 00:32:32,196 Speaker 3: harmonicas on it. But somehow a fiddle appeared, and I 643 00:32:32,276 --> 00:32:34,636 Speaker 3: mean when I started playing it. It was awful. It 644 00:32:34,756 --> 00:32:37,436 Speaker 3: was god awful. And he looked at me like he's 645 00:32:37,676 --> 00:32:39,556 Speaker 3: I could see it thinking, I thought, you said you 646 00:32:39,596 --> 00:32:41,636 Speaker 3: could play a fiddle. But I wasn't going to lose 647 00:32:41,676 --> 00:32:44,236 Speaker 3: the job because I couldn't play a fiddle. But the 648 00:32:44,236 --> 00:32:46,476 Speaker 3: best part about it, at the end of that first tour, 649 00:32:47,236 --> 00:32:48,956 Speaker 3: I get this check in the mail for you know, 650 00:32:49,196 --> 00:32:52,556 Speaker 3: the work, and a letter their son, thank you, glad 651 00:32:52,596 --> 00:32:55,116 Speaker 3: you're with us. You know you add life and vibrancy 652 00:32:55,196 --> 00:32:57,636 Speaker 3: to the show. Blah blah blah. But at the end, 653 00:32:58,076 --> 00:33:02,676 Speaker 3: love j R. And then it says PS two, all fiddles, squeaker, 654 00:33:02,796 --> 00:33:03,316 Speaker 3: just yours. 655 00:33:07,316 --> 00:33:08,996 Speaker 1: Now I heard his story once that you lost the 656 00:33:09,276 --> 00:33:13,396 Speaker 1: fiddle Jerry Lee to Jerry Lee Lewis. Yeah, how did 657 00:33:13,396 --> 00:33:13,916 Speaker 1: that happen? 658 00:33:14,116 --> 00:33:17,876 Speaker 3: We were on tour in Paris and I decided it 659 00:33:17,916 --> 00:33:21,436 Speaker 3: was Carl Perkins, John and Jerry Lee Lewis. The tour 660 00:33:21,516 --> 00:33:24,436 Speaker 3: was called the Survivors. So we go around Europe and 661 00:33:24,516 --> 00:33:27,276 Speaker 3: all you know, playing all these shows, and their fans 662 00:33:27,276 --> 00:33:29,716 Speaker 3: are coming out and I just I called Jerry Lee 663 00:33:29,836 --> 00:33:33,276 Speaker 3: uncle Gerald. So I decided somewhere along the way that 664 00:33:33,356 --> 00:33:35,036 Speaker 3: I was going to see if I could keep up 665 00:33:35,036 --> 00:33:39,196 Speaker 3: with Uncle Gerald roaring and I made it about two 666 00:33:39,316 --> 00:33:43,556 Speaker 3: days and we were in some hotel in France, and 667 00:33:43,636 --> 00:33:46,236 Speaker 3: I remember thinking the world started going round and round, 668 00:33:46,316 --> 00:33:48,476 Speaker 3: and I started seeing four of everything where there was 669 00:33:48,516 --> 00:33:51,756 Speaker 3: only one. I thought, I have to surrender Uncle, Uncle, 670 00:33:51,756 --> 00:33:55,716 Speaker 3: I have to go to bed. He says, well, all right, 671 00:33:56,196 --> 00:33:59,516 Speaker 3: he was still going room full of people, and I 672 00:33:59,556 --> 00:34:03,236 Speaker 3: went to my room, and maybe an hour later or something, 673 00:34:03,276 --> 00:34:05,716 Speaker 3: there was a knock on the door and he comes 674 00:34:05,756 --> 00:34:08,396 Speaker 3: to the door and he has no shirt on and 675 00:34:08,436 --> 00:34:12,316 Speaker 3: he has covered in chocolate cake. He says, can I 676 00:34:12,356 --> 00:34:18,516 Speaker 3: borrow your fiddle? Sure? So I called, you know the 677 00:34:18,556 --> 00:34:20,196 Speaker 3: guy who looked over the gear, and I said, would 678 00:34:20,196 --> 00:34:23,036 Speaker 3: you deliver my fiddle to Jerry Lee's room? And I 679 00:34:23,076 --> 00:34:24,236 Speaker 3: have not seen it since. 680 00:34:24,956 --> 00:34:25,876 Speaker 1: You never asked him. 681 00:34:26,196 --> 00:34:29,436 Speaker 3: No, I knew better than to ask. But I tell 682 00:34:29,436 --> 00:34:33,556 Speaker 3: you what I did see recently. I was going through 683 00:34:33,636 --> 00:34:38,156 Speaker 3: Jerry Lee Lewis pictures on Google and I saw a 684 00:34:38,196 --> 00:34:43,436 Speaker 3: picture of him playing my fiddle. And that's the last 685 00:34:43,516 --> 00:34:46,476 Speaker 3: time I saw it. I have no idea beyond that. 686 00:34:46,676 --> 00:34:47,716 Speaker 3: So what happened. 687 00:34:47,756 --> 00:34:48,636 Speaker 1: What kind of guy was he? 688 00:34:49,556 --> 00:34:52,356 Speaker 3: Well, to me, he was Uncle Gerald, and he was 689 00:34:53,316 --> 00:34:58,516 Speaker 3: one of the greatest stylists and musicians and singers and 690 00:34:58,516 --> 00:35:01,676 Speaker 3: interpreters of all time. But it would have been a 691 00:35:01,716 --> 00:35:04,876 Speaker 3: big ride to, you know, have to manage all the 692 00:35:04,956 --> 00:35:08,716 Speaker 3: ducks in his wheelhouse every day. I think he would 693 00:35:08,716 --> 00:35:12,876 Speaker 3: have been an Levon says, an adult sized portion of 694 00:35:12,956 --> 00:35:17,156 Speaker 3: putting up with things. He was just I think it 695 00:35:17,156 --> 00:35:19,036 Speaker 3: would he I don't think he knew what was going 696 00:35:19,076 --> 00:35:21,236 Speaker 3: to happen when he woke up in the morning. It 697 00:35:21,356 --> 00:35:24,036 Speaker 3: just got up and he went about being Jerry Lee 698 00:35:24,076 --> 00:35:27,836 Speaker 3: and things crossed his path. But there are people that 699 00:35:27,876 --> 00:35:30,356 Speaker 3: I know that were with him for many, many, many 700 00:35:30,396 --> 00:35:34,196 Speaker 3: many years and they loved him, respected him, and you know, 701 00:35:34,356 --> 00:35:36,516 Speaker 3: I think that Jerry Lee persona was one thing, but 702 00:35:36,556 --> 00:35:38,956 Speaker 3: when you get into the realm of family was what 703 00:35:39,156 --> 00:35:41,476 Speaker 3: he was. To me, it was a different guy. 704 00:35:42,156 --> 00:35:44,356 Speaker 1: What kind of guy was he in that context? 705 00:35:44,436 --> 00:35:49,396 Speaker 3: I think he was. He was spiritual, very spiritual, very soulful, humble. 706 00:35:50,076 --> 00:35:53,876 Speaker 3: Believe it or not, he was. He was a mild 707 00:35:54,556 --> 00:35:57,476 Speaker 3: person at heart, He truly was. When it got into 708 00:35:57,516 --> 00:35:58,756 Speaker 3: his family, he had a big heart. 709 00:35:59,996 --> 00:36:01,716 Speaker 2: We have to take a quick break and then we 710 00:36:01,796 --> 00:36:04,676 Speaker 2: back with more from Bruce had Them and Marty Stewart. 711 00:36:09,196 --> 00:36:11,236 Speaker 2: We're back with more from Marty Stewart. 712 00:36:11,956 --> 00:36:16,076 Speaker 1: I watched an interview with your great guitar player Kenny Vaughan, 713 00:36:16,916 --> 00:36:20,876 Speaker 1: and he talked about starting on the electric, how that's 714 00:36:20,916 --> 00:36:23,996 Speaker 1: different than people who start with acoustic and then crossover. 715 00:36:24,476 --> 00:36:27,076 Speaker 1: What was it like for you to learn the electric guitar. 716 00:36:27,396 --> 00:36:31,716 Speaker 3: Well, it's an ongoing process. It's a completely different feel, 717 00:36:32,956 --> 00:36:36,036 Speaker 3: a completely different language. The notes are the same, but 718 00:36:36,156 --> 00:36:40,196 Speaker 3: how you touch it and approach it. And I think 719 00:36:40,676 --> 00:36:42,716 Speaker 3: there's so many gifted guitar players out there. 720 00:36:42,716 --> 00:36:43,036 Speaker 2: I mean I. 721 00:36:44,796 --> 00:36:48,356 Speaker 3: And I love the guitar because you can truly express 722 00:36:48,396 --> 00:36:50,716 Speaker 3: when you figure out who you are and what you 723 00:36:50,756 --> 00:36:52,996 Speaker 3: want to say was It's a great way to as 724 00:36:53,036 --> 00:36:56,036 Speaker 3: its own language. The electric does the electric it does. 725 00:36:56,836 --> 00:36:59,356 Speaker 3: I mean, I listened to people like Pop Staples, who's 726 00:36:59,396 --> 00:37:03,596 Speaker 3: one of my favorite guitar players. Pops was so basic, 727 00:37:03,916 --> 00:37:07,036 Speaker 3: but he used that tremolo and his guitar and it 728 00:37:07,156 --> 00:37:11,156 Speaker 3: was like Moses spoke. When you heard the Staples singers 729 00:37:11,596 --> 00:37:14,356 Speaker 3: come on the air, it was just again back to 730 00:37:14,436 --> 00:37:17,436 Speaker 3: less is more. Pops was a very minimal guitar player, 731 00:37:17,436 --> 00:37:21,636 Speaker 3: but his guitar playing was so vast and profound. Then 732 00:37:21,716 --> 00:37:23,796 Speaker 3: he's ear guy, like I saw a clip the other 733 00:37:23,836 --> 00:37:26,596 Speaker 3: day of Eddie Van Halen doing sound check out here 734 00:37:26,636 --> 00:37:29,396 Speaker 3: on the street in Manhattan, somewhere before they played, and 735 00:37:29,396 --> 00:37:31,756 Speaker 3: people hanging out the windows because it was so loud 736 00:37:31,796 --> 00:37:34,956 Speaker 3: and thrilling, all those notes flying by. It must have 737 00:37:34,996 --> 00:37:37,436 Speaker 3: been like forty fighter jets flying by. It's the same 738 00:37:37,476 --> 00:37:40,316 Speaker 3: time or something. And Kenny's another one of those. He 739 00:37:40,476 --> 00:37:44,236 Speaker 3: just he started as an electric player, and I've watched 740 00:37:44,276 --> 00:37:47,916 Speaker 3: him grow as an acoustic player, and I know that 741 00:37:47,956 --> 00:37:50,116 Speaker 3: he would say the same thing about my electric playing 742 00:37:50,116 --> 00:37:51,956 Speaker 3: as we But we work at it. We work at 743 00:37:51,996 --> 00:37:52,596 Speaker 3: it all the time. 744 00:37:52,956 --> 00:37:54,076 Speaker 1: You practice every day. 745 00:37:54,236 --> 00:37:56,316 Speaker 3: No, I doodle, Kenny practices. 746 00:37:56,396 --> 00:37:59,356 Speaker 1: I doodle, right, Yeah, well you dodle pretty well. 747 00:37:59,836 --> 00:38:01,476 Speaker 3: Your guitar player is a better than others. 748 00:38:01,876 --> 00:38:03,316 Speaker 1: You've got Pop Staples guitar. 749 00:38:03,396 --> 00:38:06,836 Speaker 3: I do. And it's in town tomorrow night. I'm doing 750 00:38:06,836 --> 00:38:11,516 Speaker 3: a song with Wynton Marcell Jazz and Lincolnsider on a 751 00:38:11,556 --> 00:38:13,796 Speaker 3: show that he's doing. And he asked me to do 752 00:38:13,876 --> 00:38:17,316 Speaker 3: will the Circle Being Broken? That old war Horse anthem. 753 00:38:17,796 --> 00:38:21,796 Speaker 3: But beyond the Carter Family's original recording, the Staple Singer's 754 00:38:21,996 --> 00:38:25,156 Speaker 3: version is my favorite song. It is my favorite version. 755 00:38:25,836 --> 00:38:28,596 Speaker 3: And I brought Pop's guitar with me. It's actually it's 756 00:38:28,596 --> 00:38:30,876 Speaker 3: in this very room. It's here with us today. What 757 00:38:30,956 --> 00:38:35,676 Speaker 3: kind of it was Defender Rosewood telecaster. And it's the one. 758 00:38:35,716 --> 00:38:37,756 Speaker 3: If you look at the at the movie the Last Waltz, 759 00:38:37,956 --> 00:38:41,396 Speaker 3: the band did the song to Wait with the staple singers, 760 00:38:41,516 --> 00:38:42,076 Speaker 3: that's the one. 761 00:38:43,116 --> 00:38:45,796 Speaker 1: And he's got such a I mean, you know, people say, well, 762 00:38:45,796 --> 00:38:46,916 Speaker 1: he only knew the e chord. 763 00:38:47,316 --> 00:38:50,796 Speaker 3: He didn't need to know anything. It sounds when he went, 764 00:39:06,076 --> 00:39:06,716 Speaker 3: that's Pops. 765 00:39:06,796 --> 00:39:10,596 Speaker 1: And is it all gospel playing or is it? 766 00:39:10,636 --> 00:39:13,076 Speaker 3: Well, it sounds like rock and roll to me, but 767 00:39:13,156 --> 00:39:16,476 Speaker 3: it's it's he called it gospel guitar, but it's it's 768 00:39:16,516 --> 00:39:18,316 Speaker 3: just soulful. It's a soul guitar. 769 00:39:18,996 --> 00:39:22,076 Speaker 1: It's got such a beautiful sound. It's just using the tremolo. 770 00:39:22,196 --> 00:39:22,796 Speaker 1: What's he doing? 771 00:39:23,996 --> 00:39:26,596 Speaker 3: I called him one time to come to Nashville, and 772 00:39:26,636 --> 00:39:28,596 Speaker 3: he says, and he agreed to do it. He says, 773 00:39:28,636 --> 00:39:30,116 Speaker 3: now I'm on need two things. I said, well you 774 00:39:30,116 --> 00:39:32,516 Speaker 3: need Pops. He says, I need me a a Fender 775 00:39:32,556 --> 00:39:35,516 Speaker 3: amplifier with some shake on it and a stretch out car. 776 00:39:35,636 --> 00:39:38,996 Speaker 3: I went, no problem, and I called Mayvis. I said, 777 00:39:39,156 --> 00:39:41,796 Speaker 3: Mayvas helped me. What is a Fender sixty five amp 778 00:39:41,836 --> 00:39:43,956 Speaker 3: with some shake on He said, Oh, Marty, that's trimmelo. 779 00:39:44,116 --> 00:39:46,356 Speaker 3: I went okay, I said, man, what is a stretch 780 00:39:46,396 --> 00:39:49,356 Speaker 3: out car? Shit? Oh, that's one of them limousines. Pops 781 00:39:49,476 --> 00:39:51,796 Speaker 3: like limousines. We got it, no problem. 782 00:39:55,676 --> 00:39:57,156 Speaker 1: You didn't know a Fender amp. 783 00:39:57,756 --> 00:40:00,196 Speaker 3: Well, I didn't understand what shake mean. Oh. I thought 784 00:40:00,276 --> 00:40:02,796 Speaker 3: that I did, but I didn't want to take any chances. 785 00:40:02,836 --> 00:40:05,436 Speaker 3: So I found that was Pop's word for tremolo, and 786 00:40:05,436 --> 00:40:07,836 Speaker 3: it was a sixty five sixty five with some shake 787 00:40:07,916 --> 00:40:08,156 Speaker 3: on it. 788 00:40:09,196 --> 00:40:11,356 Speaker 1: Wow, okay, did it sound good? 789 00:40:11,596 --> 00:40:13,876 Speaker 3: Oh? Of course it did. Pops was one of those 790 00:40:13,916 --> 00:40:17,076 Speaker 3: guys that could play forty guitars and forty different amps, 791 00:40:17,076 --> 00:40:19,516 Speaker 3: but they all sounded the same. It was in his hands. 792 00:40:20,476 --> 00:40:21,516 Speaker 1: Are you that kind of player? 793 00:40:21,916 --> 00:40:24,316 Speaker 3: I don't think so. I don't think so, not to 794 00:40:24,356 --> 00:40:24,876 Speaker 3: that level. 795 00:40:24,916 --> 00:40:28,516 Speaker 1: No, you also got Carl Parkins guitar. Is that right? 796 00:40:28,596 --> 00:40:28,956 Speaker 3: Yeah? 797 00:40:29,156 --> 00:40:30,396 Speaker 1: Tell me the story about that hunt. 798 00:40:30,516 --> 00:40:33,276 Speaker 3: At the end of the Johnny Cash Band member days, 799 00:40:33,596 --> 00:40:37,116 Speaker 3: there was a happening in Memphis called the Class of 800 00:40:37,156 --> 00:40:41,956 Speaker 3: fifty five Sessions. Record producer named Chips Moman was trying 801 00:40:42,036 --> 00:40:44,876 Speaker 3: to light a fire under Memphis. Memphis was trying to 802 00:40:45,556 --> 00:40:49,356 Speaker 3: re establish itself and freshen its image up and step 803 00:40:49,396 --> 00:40:53,596 Speaker 3: out in the eighties, and so Chips put together this 804 00:40:53,836 --> 00:40:59,076 Speaker 3: series of recording sessions with Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison, 805 00:40:59,556 --> 00:41:02,796 Speaker 3: and Jerry Lee, And of course I was right in 806 00:41:02,876 --> 00:41:05,396 Speaker 3: the middle of that because I was in John's band 807 00:41:05,396 --> 00:41:08,836 Speaker 3: and I wanted to see that I was in it. 808 00:41:09,196 --> 00:41:13,396 Speaker 3: Played on those sessions, and the word was out that 809 00:41:13,476 --> 00:41:17,836 Speaker 3: I was looking for a pathway forward and to try 810 00:41:17,876 --> 00:41:19,996 Speaker 3: to be a recording artist and to try to be 811 00:41:20,036 --> 00:41:24,996 Speaker 3: a country western singing sensation. First person that heard about 812 00:41:24,996 --> 00:41:26,596 Speaker 3: it was Sam Phillips, and he came to me said 813 00:41:26,596 --> 00:41:28,276 Speaker 3: are you Is that what you have on your mind? 814 00:41:28,316 --> 00:41:30,796 Speaker 3: I went yes, unc and he says, does Johnny know 815 00:41:30,836 --> 00:41:34,276 Speaker 3: about this? I one, absolutely, he supports it. He says, okay. 816 00:41:35,436 --> 00:41:38,116 Speaker 3: He gave me his blessing, and then Karl heard about it, 817 00:41:39,036 --> 00:41:40,476 Speaker 3: and he says, this is what you're going to do. 818 00:41:40,596 --> 00:41:42,476 Speaker 3: I went yeah. So at the end of the sessions, 819 00:41:42,916 --> 00:41:45,676 Speaker 3: he walked up and handed me his Fender stratocaster that 820 00:41:45,676 --> 00:41:48,996 Speaker 3: he had been playing and autographed it on the back. 821 00:41:49,076 --> 00:41:52,796 Speaker 3: He said to me, it was like being knighted or something. 822 00:41:53,516 --> 00:41:55,676 Speaker 3: It was a rite of passage. It was like all 823 00:41:55,716 --> 00:41:59,116 Speaker 3: those guys surrounded me and gave me their support, and 824 00:41:59,156 --> 00:42:00,076 Speaker 3: that tipped me off. 825 00:42:00,356 --> 00:42:02,956 Speaker 1: Wow, what was it like being in those sessions? 826 00:42:03,596 --> 00:42:06,556 Speaker 3: Well, it was the one question that kept being asked 827 00:42:06,716 --> 00:42:08,916 Speaker 3: was wouldn't it be great if Elvis was here? I mean, 828 00:42:09,116 --> 00:42:14,276 Speaker 3: the journalists descended from all over on those sessions. I mean, 829 00:42:14,636 --> 00:42:16,756 Speaker 3: I wish you could. The best part of the sessions, 830 00:42:16,796 --> 00:42:19,916 Speaker 3: in reality, Bruce, was the press conference. They held the 831 00:42:19,916 --> 00:42:23,156 Speaker 3: press conference at the Peabody Hotel. And to see those 832 00:42:23,156 --> 00:42:28,476 Speaker 3: four guys, along with cowboys Jack Clement and Sam Phillips, 833 00:42:29,076 --> 00:42:32,596 Speaker 3: walking to the Peabody Hotel and take a seat behind 834 00:42:33,396 --> 00:42:36,556 Speaker 3: the conference table for a press conference, it was a 835 00:42:36,756 --> 00:42:39,636 Speaker 3: mighty thing to see those guys that left town as 836 00:42:40,076 --> 00:42:43,676 Speaker 3: young princes come back as these kings. I mean, it 837 00:42:43,876 --> 00:42:46,996 Speaker 3: was an electric thing. But the question that kept coming 838 00:42:47,076 --> 00:42:49,756 Speaker 3: up that week was you know, wouldn't told be great 839 00:42:49,756 --> 00:42:52,636 Speaker 3: if Elvis could be here? And of course Roy Orbison 840 00:42:52,636 --> 00:42:55,036 Speaker 3: had a very eloquent answer, and you know, well in 841 00:42:55,156 --> 00:42:58,956 Speaker 3: spirit he still is. And John had a wonderful answer, 842 00:42:59,116 --> 00:43:01,236 Speaker 3: you know, and Carl would get a tear in his 843 00:43:01,236 --> 00:43:03,396 Speaker 3: eye and tell this to leave it to Jerry Lee 844 00:43:03,436 --> 00:43:05,516 Speaker 3: and Jerry said, well, he would be. He had an 845 00:43:05,556 --> 00:43:15,076 Speaker 3: overshot runway. But there was a renegade spirit about that 846 00:43:15,156 --> 00:43:17,916 Speaker 3: wig that never quite made it into the grus of 847 00:43:17,956 --> 00:43:22,396 Speaker 3: that record. It didn't have the sass that the Sun 848 00:43:22,436 --> 00:43:24,476 Speaker 3: records that do you and I probably grew up listening 849 00:43:24,516 --> 00:43:27,716 Speaker 3: to had. But still Dick Clark and his team came 850 00:43:27,756 --> 00:43:32,076 Speaker 3: in from California to document all that stuff, but still 851 00:43:32,356 --> 00:43:33,836 Speaker 3: just to be a fly on the wall and turn 852 00:43:33,916 --> 00:43:36,396 Speaker 3: the volume down just to watch it was worth it, 853 00:43:36,436 --> 00:43:37,436 Speaker 3: worth its weight in gold. 854 00:43:37,636 --> 00:43:40,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, where was Johnny Cash in his career at that point? 855 00:43:41,036 --> 00:43:43,516 Speaker 1: We know is kind of you know, Rick Rubin, who's 856 00:43:43,636 --> 00:43:47,436 Speaker 1: a partner in the podcast, had his moment with Johnny Cash, 857 00:43:47,476 --> 00:43:49,836 Speaker 1: which is a bit later. Because of that, people have 858 00:43:49,876 --> 00:43:53,916 Speaker 1: reinterpreted his later career as well. He was struggling or 859 00:43:53,956 --> 00:43:56,916 Speaker 1: his record label is going to drop him. How was 860 00:43:56,956 --> 00:43:58,676 Speaker 1: he as a performer then? What was he like? 861 00:43:59,276 --> 00:44:02,756 Speaker 3: He was a master performer that never wavered. He was 862 00:44:02,796 --> 00:44:06,076 Speaker 3: a master showman, and he was a man of integrity. 863 00:44:06,196 --> 00:44:09,516 Speaker 3: He left this earth looking for one more song. Those 864 00:44:09,556 --> 00:44:15,556 Speaker 3: things never varied. What I was taken by on the 865 00:44:15,596 --> 00:44:20,476 Speaker 3: first night in Des Moines, Iowa. The Johnny Cash that 866 00:44:20,636 --> 00:44:25,636 Speaker 3: I adored as a kid, and it became my hero. 867 00:44:26,476 --> 00:44:29,316 Speaker 3: Was the guy that made the Fulsome Prison record, and 868 00:44:29,356 --> 00:44:32,476 Speaker 3: the guy that defied authority, and the guy that made 869 00:44:32,476 --> 00:44:36,036 Speaker 3: the Bitter Tears record to bring light to the Native 870 00:44:36,036 --> 00:44:41,516 Speaker 3: American plight, the San Quentin record, all those edgy things, 871 00:44:41,716 --> 00:44:44,596 Speaker 3: the concept records that he did, Ballance of the True West, 872 00:44:44,836 --> 00:44:47,036 Speaker 3: Johnny Cash visits to Holy Land. You never knew what 873 00:44:47,076 --> 00:44:48,996 Speaker 3: he was going to do next, and it was so interesting. 874 00:44:49,556 --> 00:44:53,476 Speaker 3: But the night of des Moines, Iowa, when I signed 875 00:44:53,476 --> 00:44:56,436 Speaker 3: on and went to the hotel that night, I had 876 00:44:56,476 --> 00:44:59,796 Speaker 3: to have a talk with myself because I really had 877 00:44:59,836 --> 00:45:04,036 Speaker 3: not seen his concerts since nineteen seventy when I was 878 00:45:04,076 --> 00:45:07,436 Speaker 3: a kid, and I thought, I think I just signed 879 00:45:07,476 --> 00:45:10,396 Speaker 3: on to the Lawrence Walk Show. It was a really 880 00:45:11,476 --> 00:45:17,156 Speaker 3: broad family atmosphere. The guy that was my hero from 881 00:45:17,436 --> 00:45:20,956 Speaker 3: those records passed. He was down in there somewhere, but 882 00:45:21,036 --> 00:45:23,916 Speaker 3: I didn't see much evidence of him. But I still 883 00:45:24,356 --> 00:45:27,276 Speaker 3: even his spare change was better than most everybody else's stuff, 884 00:45:27,956 --> 00:45:29,956 Speaker 3: and I knew that it was the best opportunity that 885 00:45:30,036 --> 00:45:31,436 Speaker 3: I ever had in my life, and I knew that 886 00:45:31,476 --> 00:45:33,436 Speaker 3: I was going to go ahead and go for this 887 00:45:33,596 --> 00:45:36,196 Speaker 3: and take it hook line and sinker. But I was 888 00:45:36,276 --> 00:45:40,676 Speaker 3: really surprised at how mild it had become. He was 889 00:45:40,716 --> 00:45:44,076 Speaker 3: Patriot cash. He could still fill up performing arts centers, 890 00:45:44,196 --> 00:45:48,596 Speaker 3: he could still fill up state fairs grandstands, but that 891 00:45:48,796 --> 00:45:52,236 Speaker 3: edgy guy was gone. And I didn't see that edgy 892 00:45:52,316 --> 00:45:54,596 Speaker 3: guy until we went to Europe the first time. He 893 00:45:54,636 --> 00:45:56,916 Speaker 3: still did a lot of business in Europe. But in 894 00:45:56,956 --> 00:46:01,276 Speaker 3: Europe I went, Okay, I see there is another there's 895 00:46:01,316 --> 00:46:04,996 Speaker 3: another wave out there somewhere for John Rcash because it 896 00:46:05,036 --> 00:46:06,996 Speaker 3: was kids. He was still a pop star over there, 897 00:46:07,276 --> 00:46:11,116 Speaker 3: and it was these rockabillies and tattoos, kids and punks, 898 00:46:11,716 --> 00:46:14,756 Speaker 3: along with the servicemen who were a long way from home, 899 00:46:14,796 --> 00:46:17,396 Speaker 3: and the audience that had grown up with him since 900 00:46:17,396 --> 00:46:19,996 Speaker 3: the fifties. There was an edge to that audience, and 901 00:46:20,036 --> 00:46:21,516 Speaker 3: I thought, one of these days that's going to make 902 00:46:21,516 --> 00:46:24,316 Speaker 3: it back to the States. But we would go back 903 00:46:24,316 --> 00:46:26,676 Speaker 3: over there and I could see what was coming, and 904 00:46:26,756 --> 00:46:29,596 Speaker 3: from day one I went in as an advocate. We 905 00:46:29,676 --> 00:46:31,876 Speaker 3: need to go back to the original sound. I went 906 00:46:31,876 --> 00:46:33,356 Speaker 3: to him one day said you need to fire me. 907 00:46:34,076 --> 00:46:36,356 Speaker 3: You don't need me. You don't need two horn players, 908 00:46:36,356 --> 00:46:38,636 Speaker 3: you don't need a synthesizer. Player. You don't need a 909 00:46:38,636 --> 00:46:41,516 Speaker 3: piano on stage. You need you and three guys on stage. 910 00:46:42,596 --> 00:46:44,356 Speaker 3: He said, a lot of people depend on me. I said, well, 911 00:46:44,356 --> 00:46:47,436 Speaker 3: there's your problem. I said, get it back to the music. 912 00:46:48,276 --> 00:46:49,956 Speaker 3: And I think it hurt his feelings and took him 913 00:46:49,996 --> 00:46:52,316 Speaker 3: back a little bit. But I was always honest about that, 914 00:46:52,356 --> 00:46:55,916 Speaker 3: and I don't need to play on this. But one day, 915 00:46:56,356 --> 00:46:58,236 Speaker 3: long after I had left his band, I went out 916 00:46:58,276 --> 00:47:01,116 Speaker 3: with his blessing and got started, had a false start, 917 00:47:01,156 --> 00:47:03,276 Speaker 3: and got my band started and we started having hits 918 00:47:03,876 --> 00:47:05,836 Speaker 3: and things started going in the right direction for me. 919 00:47:05,876 --> 00:47:07,196 Speaker 3: But he called me and said, can you come out 920 00:47:07,236 --> 00:47:10,356 Speaker 3: to the House of Cash in the morning. Oh yeah. 921 00:47:10,876 --> 00:47:13,076 Speaker 3: So I went out there and he opened up a 922 00:47:13,076 --> 00:47:15,196 Speaker 3: little six and a half ounce bottle of Coca Cola, 923 00:47:15,236 --> 00:47:17,316 Speaker 3: said it in front of me. He said, don't talk 924 00:47:17,356 --> 00:47:19,156 Speaker 3: to me for twenty one and a half minutes. I 925 00:47:19,156 --> 00:47:23,316 Speaker 3: went all right, and he sang me ten or twelve songs, 926 00:47:23,556 --> 00:47:26,116 Speaker 3: just him and his guitar, And when he got through, 927 00:47:26,236 --> 00:47:28,276 Speaker 3: I could tell he was kind of looked at me, like, 928 00:47:29,036 --> 00:47:31,316 Speaker 3: what do you think? I said, what did I just hear? 929 00:47:32,236 --> 00:47:35,276 Speaker 3: He said, my new album? I said, you mean just 930 00:47:35,356 --> 00:47:38,676 Speaker 3: you and your guitar. He said, yeah, what do you think? 931 00:47:39,436 --> 00:47:42,756 Speaker 3: I said, I think it's brilliant. It goes beyond what 932 00:47:42,876 --> 00:47:46,516 Speaker 3: you've ever done. And you're the best storyteller that's ever lived. 933 00:47:46,716 --> 00:47:49,196 Speaker 3: You and a guitar and a three minute song that 934 00:47:49,236 --> 00:47:53,916 Speaker 3: says the right thing. Nobody can deny that and walk 935 00:47:53,956 --> 00:47:57,316 Speaker 3: away from it unchanged. And then he told me about 936 00:47:57,396 --> 00:47:59,316 Speaker 3: Rick Rubin and what he was up to, and I went, 937 00:47:59,676 --> 00:48:02,156 Speaker 3: absolutely brilliant, Absolutely brilliant. 938 00:48:04,116 --> 00:48:07,196 Speaker 1: You have some story songs, and you've had some story albums. 939 00:48:07,636 --> 00:48:10,676 Speaker 1: Is there something you could get from the way other 940 00:48:10,756 --> 00:48:14,036 Speaker 1: than he was Johnny Cash? How did he tell that story? 941 00:48:14,076 --> 00:48:16,396 Speaker 1: How did he pull people in so well? 942 00:48:17,196 --> 00:48:21,076 Speaker 3: In his case? I think it was they trusted the messenger. 943 00:48:21,476 --> 00:48:25,996 Speaker 3: We all trusted the messenger. Hank Williams had that, Merle 944 00:48:25,996 --> 00:48:30,076 Speaker 3: Haggard had that. There's Bruce Springsteen has it. When Bob 945 00:48:30,156 --> 00:48:34,236 Speaker 3: Dylan wants to, He's one of the greatest that ever 946 00:48:34,396 --> 00:48:39,036 Speaker 3: was at it. That's part of the fan artist dance 947 00:48:39,796 --> 00:48:44,276 Speaker 3: is finding somebody you trust with your heart. And at 948 00:48:44,276 --> 00:48:48,436 Speaker 3: the end of the whole episodic thing that we worked 949 00:48:48,476 --> 00:48:52,396 Speaker 3: on with Ken Burns for the Country Music series for PBS, 950 00:48:52,876 --> 00:48:56,196 Speaker 3: Ken and I agreed that beyond everything else we talked about, 951 00:48:56,236 --> 00:49:00,116 Speaker 3: it's the stories. It's the stories that matter the most, 952 00:49:01,236 --> 00:49:04,916 Speaker 3: and John just happened to have that gift. His voice 953 00:49:05,036 --> 00:49:07,316 Speaker 3: was like, you know, thunder coming from the middle of 954 00:49:07,356 --> 00:49:10,596 Speaker 3: the Earth, and his three chord treatment of most of 955 00:49:10,636 --> 00:49:13,716 Speaker 3: those songs was like anybody could look at him and 956 00:49:13,756 --> 00:49:15,916 Speaker 3: relate to what he was saying, even if you didn't 957 00:49:15,996 --> 00:49:18,716 Speaker 3: like his singing or appreciate what he was up to. 958 00:49:19,516 --> 00:49:22,556 Speaker 3: He was one of those He had a presence about 959 00:49:22,636 --> 00:49:26,076 Speaker 3: him that you had to at least consider it, and 960 00:49:26,116 --> 00:49:28,076 Speaker 3: if you did, it usually made a difference in your heart. 961 00:49:29,596 --> 00:49:33,236 Speaker 1: Wow, when you said he was in Europe and the 962 00:49:33,316 --> 00:49:36,316 Speaker 1: audiences were different and they were responsive in a different way, 963 00:49:36,356 --> 00:49:37,876 Speaker 1: did it change his performance at all? 964 00:49:38,076 --> 00:49:41,676 Speaker 3: Yeah. He went back and did older songs that I 965 00:49:41,876 --> 00:49:45,276 Speaker 3: longed to hear him sing as a Johnny Cash fan, like, oh, 966 00:49:45,396 --> 00:49:48,516 Speaker 3: look here he's doing the legend of John Henry's Hammer. 967 00:49:48,956 --> 00:49:50,836 Speaker 3: He's doing I was there when it happened, so I 968 00:49:50,836 --> 00:49:53,716 Speaker 3: guess I don't know. He's doing gray Stone Chapel, he's 969 00:49:53,756 --> 00:49:57,276 Speaker 3: doing Delia, He's doing you know, sing it pretty soon. 970 00:49:57,356 --> 00:50:00,836 Speaker 3: He's doing all those kind of songs that he would 971 00:50:00,876 --> 00:50:03,716 Speaker 3: never do in the States for some reason. But and 972 00:50:04,156 --> 00:50:07,756 Speaker 3: they'd get around all those old Sun records like, yeah, come. 973 00:50:07,636 --> 00:50:11,516 Speaker 1: On, amazing, When did you know you wanted to go 974 00:50:11,556 --> 00:50:12,956 Speaker 1: out and be a solo artist. 975 00:50:13,636 --> 00:50:15,396 Speaker 3: One of my best friends in the world was Fluke. 976 00:50:15,396 --> 00:50:20,236 Speaker 3: Colin Fluke was drummer, the Johnny Cashman. Fluke's great distinction 977 00:50:20,516 --> 00:50:22,516 Speaker 3: was that he started out playing with Carl Perkins. He 978 00:50:22,516 --> 00:50:24,916 Speaker 3: didn't own a set of drums. He borret a set 979 00:50:24,956 --> 00:50:28,556 Speaker 3: of drums and they used him to drive to Memphis 980 00:50:28,556 --> 00:50:30,316 Speaker 3: to Carl Perkins best because he had a car. 981 00:50:32,556 --> 00:50:34,156 Speaker 1: By the way, that's the secret to all drummers. 982 00:50:34,276 --> 00:50:37,596 Speaker 3: Absolutely have the car. But check this out. So Fluke's 983 00:50:37,756 --> 00:50:40,596 Speaker 3: first recording session and the first song he ever played 984 00:50:40,636 --> 00:50:44,996 Speaker 3: in his life was Blue Suede Shoes by Carl Purkas. 985 00:50:45,076 --> 00:50:48,196 Speaker 3: And you know the Tennessee Three, Luther Perkins, Marshall Grant 986 00:50:48,516 --> 00:50:51,356 Speaker 3: and Fluke Holland they were my stones, they were my 987 00:50:51,396 --> 00:50:55,116 Speaker 3: beatles and Fluke. When I joined Cash's band, I mean 988 00:50:55,276 --> 00:50:57,356 Speaker 3: it took me two seconds to go, Fluke, You're my 989 00:50:57,476 --> 00:50:59,476 Speaker 3: best friend, and I want to know everything there is 990 00:50:59,516 --> 00:51:01,476 Speaker 3: to know about you and hang out with you. You're cool. 991 00:51:02,316 --> 00:51:05,036 Speaker 3: But Fluke was one of those that had been in 992 00:51:05,116 --> 00:51:10,116 Speaker 3: that show for twenty something years at that time. He 993 00:51:10,236 --> 00:51:13,356 Speaker 3: joined in nineteen sixty one, so this would be nineteen eighty, 994 00:51:13,396 --> 00:51:16,156 Speaker 3: whatever that is. And he would would sit in the 995 00:51:16,156 --> 00:51:19,796 Speaker 3: coffee shop and talk about, you know, music and careers 996 00:51:19,876 --> 00:51:22,956 Speaker 3: and things, and Fluke would always say, if you want 997 00:51:22,996 --> 00:51:25,236 Speaker 3: to be me, you can stay here for the rest 998 00:51:25,276 --> 00:51:27,196 Speaker 3: of your life and one day you won't have a job, 999 00:51:27,916 --> 00:51:29,556 Speaker 3: but at some point you need to go out there 1000 00:51:29,556 --> 00:51:31,596 Speaker 3: and see what it's all about. And I knew he 1001 00:51:31,716 --> 00:51:36,356 Speaker 3: was right, and he encouraged me. And the Johnny Cash 1002 00:51:36,396 --> 00:51:39,796 Speaker 3: Show was a spawning ground and a launching pad for 1003 00:51:40,596 --> 00:51:44,356 Speaker 3: other stars, people that went on to become stars. And 1004 00:51:44,476 --> 00:51:47,596 Speaker 3: I knew that it wasn't a foreign concept, and so 1005 00:51:47,756 --> 00:51:50,276 Speaker 3: John was behind it. He knew that look in my eye. 1006 00:51:51,236 --> 00:51:54,636 Speaker 3: And there came a point where it was the hardest 1007 00:51:54,636 --> 00:51:56,636 Speaker 3: thing in the world to go, I gotta go try this, 1008 00:51:57,796 --> 00:52:00,876 Speaker 3: but I did it with his blessing. The way it 1009 00:52:00,956 --> 00:52:02,996 Speaker 3: kind of worked out is that show hadn't had a 1010 00:52:03,076 --> 00:52:06,516 Speaker 3: hit in a lot of years, and I took a 1011 00:52:06,556 --> 00:52:11,796 Speaker 3: song called the Highwaymen to sessions that John and Willie 1012 00:52:11,836 --> 00:52:14,556 Speaker 3: were going to do a record, and it wasn't quite clicking, 1013 00:52:15,116 --> 00:52:17,756 Speaker 3: and We had just come from Switzerland where John, Willie 1014 00:52:17,796 --> 00:52:21,676 Speaker 3: Whalen and Christofferson had done a show together and they 1015 00:52:21,716 --> 00:52:26,276 Speaker 3: wound up in hotel room after the filming passing the 1016 00:52:26,316 --> 00:52:29,316 Speaker 3: guitar round and it was magic. So we got back 1017 00:52:29,356 --> 00:52:31,396 Speaker 3: to the States. Johnny Willy was going to make a 1018 00:52:31,436 --> 00:52:34,516 Speaker 3: record and it wasn't really magic. And I went to 1019 00:52:34,556 --> 00:52:38,116 Speaker 3: my cousin who worked at Glenn Campbell's publishing company, and 1020 00:52:38,476 --> 00:52:41,476 Speaker 3: I was aware of a song called the Highwayman that 1021 00:52:41,596 --> 00:52:44,356 Speaker 3: Jimmy Webb had written, but I did not know the song. 1022 00:52:44,396 --> 00:52:46,876 Speaker 3: I just liked the title, and he played it for 1023 00:52:46,916 --> 00:52:50,436 Speaker 3: me on a break from the sessions. I went four verses, 1024 00:52:50,476 --> 00:52:53,716 Speaker 3: no harmony required, This could work. I took it back 1025 00:52:53,796 --> 00:52:55,676 Speaker 3: to the studio and I played it for John and 1026 00:52:55,756 --> 00:52:59,956 Speaker 3: Chip's moment and John said play it again. I said, 1027 00:52:59,956 --> 00:53:04,356 Speaker 3: no harmony needed, and John on the second plase says 1028 00:53:04,636 --> 00:53:10,316 Speaker 3: owned up verse about Starship. Of course, the fourth verse, 1029 00:53:10,356 --> 00:53:12,436 Speaker 3: that's when Marlon Brando comes up out of the river 1030 00:53:12,556 --> 00:53:17,836 Speaker 3: right right, Master chauven Yah, And next thing I know, 1031 00:53:17,916 --> 00:53:21,516 Speaker 3: there's a hit in the house. Well, Columbia Records took notice, 1032 00:53:21,556 --> 00:53:25,636 Speaker 3: and John was very adamant about pointing me out to 1033 00:53:25,716 --> 00:53:28,436 Speaker 3: the Columbia record Peoples, This is the kid that brought 1034 00:53:28,476 --> 00:53:30,996 Speaker 3: that song, and I just happened to have a tape 1035 00:53:31,036 --> 00:53:32,996 Speaker 3: to start putting on people's desk at that time. 1036 00:53:33,116 --> 00:53:36,676 Speaker 1: So you know, when you're those are your Columbia records. 1037 00:53:37,116 --> 00:53:41,916 Speaker 1: Your big records started with MCA. And it seemed as 1038 00:53:41,916 --> 00:53:45,716 Speaker 1: though you came out and Dwight Yoakum and some other people. 1039 00:53:45,796 --> 00:53:49,836 Speaker 1: But your sound sounded like you've been thinking about this 1040 00:53:49,916 --> 00:53:54,516 Speaker 1: your whole life. Was that the sound you were looking for? 1041 00:53:54,636 --> 00:53:56,796 Speaker 1: Is that what you were trying to find or were 1042 00:53:56,796 --> 00:53:58,396 Speaker 1: you still looking around trying to. 1043 00:53:58,316 --> 00:54:00,556 Speaker 3: Find I was kind of feeling my way through the 1044 00:54:00,636 --> 00:54:02,356 Speaker 3: dark a little bit. At the very first of the 1045 00:54:02,476 --> 00:54:06,236 Speaker 3: MCA sessions, there had been a misfire at Columbia. I 1046 00:54:06,276 --> 00:54:08,556 Speaker 3: did a record. In the second record I put out, 1047 00:54:09,276 --> 00:54:11,156 Speaker 3: I turned it in and said this is too country. 1048 00:54:11,196 --> 00:54:14,796 Speaker 3: I went what? And it threw me for a curve. 1049 00:54:14,876 --> 00:54:18,036 Speaker 3: And you know, when you're young and trying to find 1050 00:54:18,076 --> 00:54:21,236 Speaker 3: your way, a lick like that can shake your confidence, 1051 00:54:21,276 --> 00:54:24,836 Speaker 3: and it shook my vision for a second. But the 1052 00:54:24,956 --> 00:54:27,716 Speaker 3: MCA stuff Hillbilly Rock was a song that I didn't 1053 00:54:27,756 --> 00:54:28,956 Speaker 3: think was a hit, but it went on to be 1054 00:54:28,996 --> 00:54:30,196 Speaker 3: a hit and It gave me a reason to get 1055 00:54:30,196 --> 00:54:33,196 Speaker 3: a bust in a band and some cowboy clothes. I 1056 00:54:33,276 --> 00:54:36,116 Speaker 3: used that first year to just keep exploring. And there 1057 00:54:36,156 --> 00:54:37,916 Speaker 3: was a song that Paul kit on it and I 1058 00:54:37,916 --> 00:54:40,956 Speaker 3: wrote called Tempted, and I felt like Tempted we finally 1059 00:54:40,996 --> 00:54:45,436 Speaker 3: found something that was a sonic identity and something that 1060 00:54:45,436 --> 00:54:47,396 Speaker 3: I could I was proud of and could build on. 1061 00:54:48,476 --> 00:54:51,516 Speaker 3: And that was to me, the downbeat of the journey 1062 00:54:51,556 --> 00:54:52,036 Speaker 3: was Tempted. 1063 00:54:52,036 --> 00:54:57,396 Speaker 1: The second record, that's really where you felt. It's got 1064 00:54:57,436 --> 00:54:58,276 Speaker 1: a Buddy Howlly Ville. 1065 00:54:58,396 --> 00:55:01,196 Speaker 3: Well, let me tell you this. They didn't think it 1066 00:55:01,236 --> 00:55:05,316 Speaker 3: was a hit, they being the promotion department at MCA, 1067 00:55:05,796 --> 00:55:09,356 Speaker 3: And we played a concert in Lubbock, Texas, and I 1068 00:55:09,396 --> 00:55:13,836 Speaker 3: had the song in my pocket and the speakers will 1069 00:55:13,836 --> 00:55:15,956 Speaker 3: tell you, yeah, your name a lot of times, right. 1070 00:55:16,836 --> 00:55:20,676 Speaker 3: So I went to a radio station in Lubbock and 1071 00:55:20,836 --> 00:55:25,756 Speaker 3: did a pre show interview and on the way out 1072 00:55:25,756 --> 00:55:27,876 Speaker 3: of the room, the DJ was cool. I said, would 1073 00:55:27,916 --> 00:55:30,196 Speaker 3: you do me a favor? I said, my record, I 1074 00:55:30,236 --> 00:55:31,916 Speaker 3: have a song in my pocket that I think is 1075 00:55:31,956 --> 00:55:35,396 Speaker 3: a hit, that is a little bit I can I 1076 00:55:35,396 --> 00:55:38,156 Speaker 3: can feel Buddy or Buddy Holly and Roy Orbison and 1077 00:55:38,276 --> 00:55:40,436 Speaker 3: me and all of us in there. I said, would 1078 00:55:40,436 --> 00:55:41,716 Speaker 3: you play it so I could listen to it on 1079 00:55:41,756 --> 00:55:43,716 Speaker 3: the way back to the hotel. He said, sure, no problem, 1080 00:55:44,676 --> 00:55:46,836 Speaker 3: and the DJ played the song and I turned it 1081 00:55:46,876 --> 00:55:49,196 Speaker 3: up really loud in the vehicle I was in, and 1082 00:55:49,236 --> 00:55:51,076 Speaker 3: it sounded like a hit, and I knew it was 1083 00:55:51,076 --> 00:55:54,716 Speaker 3: a hit. And at the end of it, the DJ said, 1084 00:55:55,476 --> 00:55:57,676 Speaker 3: I think that song would make Buddy Holly proud, and 1085 00:55:57,676 --> 00:55:59,356 Speaker 3: I thought, I'm going to go fight for this song, 1086 00:55:59,356 --> 00:56:00,156 Speaker 3: and I'm glad I did. 1087 00:56:00,836 --> 00:56:04,396 Speaker 1: Wow, what was it like working for the for MCA 1088 00:56:04,516 --> 00:56:07,756 Speaker 1: or any record company? Then you must have you know, 1089 00:56:07,796 --> 00:56:09,996 Speaker 1: you grew up with these guys like Johnny Cash who 1090 00:56:09,996 --> 00:56:12,876 Speaker 1: seemed like such rebels, who seemed to be doing what 1091 00:56:12,956 --> 00:56:16,276 Speaker 1: they wanted, or at least had somebody like Sam Phillips 1092 00:56:16,316 --> 00:56:20,476 Speaker 1: who was as hardheaded and as rebellious as they are. 1093 00:56:21,676 --> 00:56:23,996 Speaker 1: Are you sitting in a boardroom and you've got somebody 1094 00:56:24,516 --> 00:56:26,436 Speaker 1: from marketing saying we don't think it's a hit. 1095 00:56:28,236 --> 00:56:30,276 Speaker 3: I think there's always been that at record levels. But 1096 00:56:30,516 --> 00:56:34,876 Speaker 3: MCA in the early nineties in Nashville was run by 1097 00:56:34,916 --> 00:56:39,116 Speaker 3: Bruce Hinton and Tony Brown, and Bruce was a guy 1098 00:56:39,196 --> 00:56:43,196 Speaker 3: that had had as a young executive, had worked under 1099 00:56:43,196 --> 00:56:46,756 Speaker 3: a fellow named Goddard Lieberson here in New York City. 1100 00:56:47,156 --> 00:56:50,356 Speaker 3: And Gotterson, in my mind, is still the coolest record 1101 00:56:50,396 --> 00:56:54,556 Speaker 3: guy that ever lived because he he would sign Flatt 1102 00:56:54,556 --> 00:56:56,836 Speaker 3: and Scrugs. But he had also worked with Dave brew 1103 00:56:56,916 --> 00:56:59,676 Speaker 3: Becken and didn hed do a Broadway show, and he 1104 00:56:59,836 --> 00:57:04,156 Speaker 3: just was a world class musical citizen and cool. I 1105 00:57:04,196 --> 00:57:09,076 Speaker 3: think he was jazz cool in his heart. But Gotterson understood, 1106 00:57:09,556 --> 00:57:12,276 Speaker 3: and so Bruce Hinton brought a lot of that with him. 1107 00:57:12,596 --> 00:57:15,876 Speaker 3: And Tony Brown, the A and R guy had trained 1108 00:57:15,916 --> 00:57:18,676 Speaker 3: with the Oakrage Boys and gospel quartets. Then he got 1109 00:57:18,676 --> 00:57:21,476 Speaker 3: a job with Emmy Lou Harris, then he played with Elvis, 1110 00:57:22,116 --> 00:57:24,636 Speaker 3: and then he stepped out and became a record guy. 1111 00:57:24,756 --> 00:57:27,996 Speaker 3: So you have these two extra cool guys running this 1112 00:57:28,116 --> 00:57:31,476 Speaker 3: label in Nashville, and for a moment in time, MCA 1113 00:57:31,596 --> 00:57:35,516 Speaker 3: Records was the spot on planet Earth to be. They 1114 00:57:35,516 --> 00:57:39,996 Speaker 3: were so cool, the doors were opened, creativity was pouring in. 1115 00:57:40,436 --> 00:57:44,396 Speaker 3: They had mainstream stars like George Strait and Reeba McIntyre 1116 00:57:45,596 --> 00:57:47,916 Speaker 3: up and coming side. They had Lyle Lovett and Vince 1117 00:57:47,956 --> 00:57:51,116 Speaker 3: Gill and me and Patty Loveless and Steve Earle. Those 1118 00:57:51,236 --> 00:57:55,076 Speaker 3: kind of acts and it was just a perfect cool 1119 00:57:55,156 --> 00:57:58,916 Speaker 3: scenario and it lasted for a long time. And then, 1120 00:57:59,036 --> 00:58:03,716 Speaker 3: you know, as as the country music the world started 1121 00:58:03,956 --> 00:58:08,596 Speaker 3: becoming more corporate and more great great you know, entity 1122 00:58:08,636 --> 00:58:10,956 Speaker 3: started by I end Up record label. I think Seagrim's 1123 00:58:10,996 --> 00:58:14,356 Speaker 3: bought that into things, and so everything changed. But for 1124 00:58:14,436 --> 00:58:16,116 Speaker 3: a moment of time, we had it right. 1125 00:58:17,436 --> 00:58:20,836 Speaker 1: Country music always seems to be going through these ebbs 1126 00:58:20,876 --> 00:58:25,716 Speaker 1: and flows where it gets very corporate and then suddenly 1127 00:58:25,956 --> 00:58:29,316 Speaker 1: and it's it's you were considered a very traditional player. 1128 00:58:29,356 --> 00:58:31,676 Speaker 1: A lot of those people were love it wasn't but 1129 00:58:32,716 --> 00:58:36,396 Speaker 1: people sort of bring the older qualities of country music back. 1130 00:58:37,476 --> 00:58:41,196 Speaker 3: Well, It's funny to me because I started out going 1131 00:58:41,236 --> 00:58:44,116 Speaker 3: back to those first Light Columbia records. They were loud, 1132 00:58:44,196 --> 00:58:46,876 Speaker 3: and they were rock and roll, and were my job 1133 00:58:46,956 --> 00:58:51,716 Speaker 3: was to throw boxes of dynamite into audiences and to 1134 00:58:51,756 --> 00:58:55,636 Speaker 3: shake things up. And the further I got into it, 1135 00:58:55,676 --> 00:58:58,396 Speaker 3: I thought, no, let me turn around and rethink this, 1136 00:58:59,036 --> 00:59:01,756 Speaker 3: because a lot of people started responding. But when it 1137 00:59:01,796 --> 00:59:05,836 Speaker 3: started clicking, Dwight Yoakum, Steve Rold and myself we were 1138 00:59:06,356 --> 00:59:08,796 Speaker 3: kind of at the forefront of taking it to a 1139 00:59:08,836 --> 00:59:13,796 Speaker 3: different plays add but there was a threat of tradition 1140 00:59:13,876 --> 00:59:16,836 Speaker 3: in there, but there was still a fresh edge on it, 1141 00:59:16,876 --> 00:59:19,236 Speaker 3: I thought. But everything runs its course. 1142 00:59:20,116 --> 00:59:22,796 Speaker 1: When you look at country music, now, what kind of 1143 00:59:22,836 --> 00:59:24,756 Speaker 1: state is country radio in now? 1144 00:59:25,356 --> 00:59:27,756 Speaker 3: Well, I don't hardly listen. I don't listen to country 1145 00:59:27,796 --> 00:59:31,036 Speaker 3: radio much. I listened to satellite radio, and I'm work 1146 00:59:31,076 --> 00:59:33,796 Speaker 3: inside a good band and we're pretty good radio to 1147 00:59:33,836 --> 00:59:38,196 Speaker 3: listen to ourselves. But I think, I think the thing 1148 00:59:38,236 --> 00:59:41,596 Speaker 3: that is amazing to me, that is absolutely amazing to me, 1149 00:59:41,796 --> 00:59:46,556 Speaker 3: is that people that you didn't know two years ago, 1150 00:59:46,676 --> 00:59:49,756 Speaker 3: three years ago can fill up stadiums two nights in 1151 00:59:49,796 --> 00:59:54,236 Speaker 3: a row now with contemporary country music. And my hat's 1152 00:59:54,236 --> 00:59:58,316 Speaker 3: off to that is awesome. We need that end of things. 1153 00:59:58,076 --> 01:00:01,756 Speaker 3: That's big, big, big, big business by anybody's standards. But 1154 01:00:01,836 --> 01:00:05,356 Speaker 3: the heart and soul factor is what you know. Starting 1155 01:00:05,396 --> 01:00:08,036 Speaker 3: about nineteen ninety nine with the Pilgrim moment, you know what, 1156 01:00:09,116 --> 01:00:11,316 Speaker 3: I had one hundred and fifty bucks in two different banks. 1157 01:00:11,396 --> 01:00:13,196 Speaker 3: I'm married to the girl I love. I got a 1158 01:00:13,236 --> 01:00:16,156 Speaker 3: Cadillac that's old, with some gas money in my pocket, 1159 01:00:16,516 --> 01:00:19,476 Speaker 3: the world's best telecaster, some cowboy clothes, and a cool 1160 01:00:19,836 --> 01:00:22,156 Speaker 3: set of cowboy boots. How about I live like I 1161 01:00:22,196 --> 01:00:25,836 Speaker 3: believe now, and so I have friends in every denomination 1162 01:00:25,916 --> 01:00:30,196 Speaker 3: of country music, but the foundational qualities of country music, 1163 01:00:30,236 --> 01:00:34,236 Speaker 3: the timeless place. That's where I finally put my flag 1164 01:00:34,276 --> 01:00:36,516 Speaker 3: in the dirt went until further notice, you can find 1165 01:00:36,556 --> 01:00:36,876 Speaker 3: me here. 1166 01:00:37,716 --> 01:00:40,036 Speaker 1: H Was that a hard decision? 1167 01:00:40,196 --> 01:00:43,156 Speaker 3: No, the other stuff had run its course. I remember 1168 01:00:43,236 --> 01:00:47,956 Speaker 3: being it. We played Foxwood's Big Old Crowd in at 1169 01:00:47,996 --> 01:00:51,636 Speaker 3: the end of the nineties. Couldn't have been we couldn't 1170 01:00:51,676 --> 01:00:54,996 Speaker 3: have been riding any higher commercially, and I whirled around 1171 01:00:55,036 --> 01:00:56,636 Speaker 3: to do a guitar solo and I looked at the 1172 01:00:56,716 --> 01:01:00,316 Speaker 3: music I was playing. I heard it, and I saw 1173 01:01:00,436 --> 01:01:03,116 Speaker 3: the effect it was having, and I thought, I'm so 1174 01:01:03,236 --> 01:01:07,636 Speaker 3: sick of this. This became a gag that worked. You 1175 01:01:07,716 --> 01:01:12,236 Speaker 3: know the worst guind know the worst guy, and I thought, 1176 01:01:12,276 --> 01:01:14,516 Speaker 3: I need to find my way back to who I am, 1177 01:01:14,596 --> 01:01:18,196 Speaker 3: to my heart soul, and that led me to a 1178 01:01:18,236 --> 01:01:22,596 Speaker 3: record called The Pilgrim, which ultimately cost me my record deal, 1179 01:01:23,276 --> 01:01:25,036 Speaker 3: but it also put me on the path that I've 1180 01:01:25,076 --> 01:01:27,836 Speaker 3: been on ever since. It was the richest years of 1181 01:01:27,836 --> 01:01:29,196 Speaker 3: my life. 1182 01:01:29,396 --> 01:01:31,196 Speaker 1: I want to go through all those things you had 1183 01:01:31,236 --> 01:01:33,556 Speaker 1: one by one, but I'm going to start with the guitar. 1184 01:01:34,436 --> 01:01:38,996 Speaker 1: Is this the famous Clarence White b bender? Yeah, So 1185 01:01:39,156 --> 01:01:40,196 Speaker 1: tell me about that guitar. 1186 01:01:41,076 --> 01:01:45,236 Speaker 3: I read in something this morning that forty years ago today, 1187 01:01:45,676 --> 01:01:50,316 Speaker 3: Johnny Cash hosted Saturday Night Live and Elton John was 1188 01:01:50,356 --> 01:01:53,836 Speaker 3: the musical guest, and John dressed up in some flamboyant 1189 01:01:53,836 --> 01:01:55,596 Speaker 3: outfit and introduced Elton John. 1190 01:01:55,676 --> 01:01:56,676 Speaker 1: They switched costume. 1191 01:01:56,756 --> 01:02:00,436 Speaker 3: They switched costume. That was forty years ago today. Well, 1192 01:02:00,676 --> 01:02:03,596 Speaker 3: what that means to me is forty years ago today 1193 01:02:03,716 --> 01:02:07,556 Speaker 3: was the first time that I played Clarence White's guitar publicly. 1194 01:02:08,076 --> 01:02:10,676 Speaker 3: It was on Saturday Night Live. On that show. It 1195 01:02:10,716 --> 01:02:13,836 Speaker 3: looked like I jumping bean back there. But I bought 1196 01:02:13,836 --> 01:02:17,396 Speaker 3: that guitar from his wife, Susie, and I couldn't believe 1197 01:02:17,436 --> 01:02:19,876 Speaker 3: I had it in my hands. I still can't believe 1198 01:02:19,876 --> 01:02:21,876 Speaker 3: I have it in my hands. But yeah, but that's 1199 01:02:21,876 --> 01:02:22,316 Speaker 3: the guitar. 1200 01:02:22,476 --> 01:02:24,716 Speaker 1: Is that the guitar you play every night? And so 1201 01:02:25,476 --> 01:02:29,236 Speaker 1: as I understand it right, the guitar has a mechanism 1202 01:02:29,276 --> 01:02:32,556 Speaker 1: that bends the bat string, Is that right? 1203 01:02:32,676 --> 01:02:35,916 Speaker 3: Clarence and Jeene Parsons, the drummer, they were in The 1204 01:02:35,956 --> 01:02:40,316 Speaker 3: Birds together. Clarence was an adventurous thinker musically, and so 1205 01:02:40,556 --> 01:02:43,396 Speaker 3: is Gene. And Clarence was trying to play all these 1206 01:02:43,436 --> 01:02:51,836 Speaker 3: still guitar licks, you know, and he said, why can't 1207 01:02:51,836 --> 01:02:53,316 Speaker 3: we come up with a device that I feel like 1208 01:02:53,316 --> 01:02:55,356 Speaker 3: you pulled down on the strap. It just raises it 1209 01:02:55,796 --> 01:02:57,876 Speaker 3: like a still guitar pedal, So instead of doing it 1210 01:02:57,876 --> 01:03:00,116 Speaker 3: with your fingers, you pulled down on the strap. And 1211 01:03:00,156 --> 01:03:00,676 Speaker 3: he goes. 1212 01:03:06,796 --> 01:03:09,956 Speaker 1: That, Now does it allow you to do if you 1213 01:03:09,996 --> 01:03:12,516 Speaker 1: don't have to bend it, then can you do other things? 1214 01:03:12,556 --> 01:03:15,836 Speaker 1: Can you make other sounds with it? It just allows 1215 01:03:15,876 --> 01:03:19,716 Speaker 1: you more flexibility, then yeah, it bends and you can 1216 01:03:19,756 --> 01:03:20,796 Speaker 1: do other things around a. 1217 01:03:20,796 --> 01:03:24,836 Speaker 3: Whole different vocabulary. If you listen to songs like Bad 1218 01:03:24,916 --> 01:03:28,316 Speaker 3: Day at Whiskey on Doctor Bird's and Mister Hyde record, 1219 01:03:28,356 --> 01:03:33,836 Speaker 3: they were experimenting with, you know, psychedelia, and Clarence like 1220 01:03:34,076 --> 01:03:37,116 Speaker 3: had like a fuzz pedal and all these things he 1221 01:03:37,156 --> 01:03:39,596 Speaker 3: was doing. I promise you, if Jimmy Hendricks heard, he 1222 01:03:39,596 --> 01:03:42,396 Speaker 3: would go, wow, I can't do that. But it was 1223 01:03:42,436 --> 01:03:44,596 Speaker 3: the pedal on that guitar that allowed him to do that. 1224 01:03:45,756 --> 01:03:47,556 Speaker 1: And so we'd pull it. It was attached to the strap. 1225 01:03:47,716 --> 01:03:50,356 Speaker 1: He just pulled the guitar down and he would get 1226 01:03:50,396 --> 01:03:53,516 Speaker 1: it would be a full tone. Yeah, amazing, because most 1227 01:03:53,596 --> 01:03:56,556 Speaker 1: people when they want that to steal sound, they do 1228 01:03:56,556 --> 01:03:57,916 Speaker 1: what you do. They just bend. 1229 01:03:58,076 --> 01:03:58,596 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1230 01:03:58,636 --> 01:04:00,236 Speaker 1: How long did it take you to learn how to 1231 01:04:00,836 --> 01:04:01,236 Speaker 1: play that? 1232 01:04:01,396 --> 01:04:03,596 Speaker 3: Oh? I'm still learning. I just want to. Just when 1233 01:04:03,636 --> 01:04:06,916 Speaker 3: i think I'm really getting something going on that guitar, 1234 01:04:07,076 --> 01:04:10,076 Speaker 3: somebody would present me with a a live show from 1235 01:04:10,116 --> 01:04:13,036 Speaker 3: the birds or something clarience plot. I went back to 1236 01:04:13,116 --> 01:04:13,716 Speaker 3: the Woodshit. 1237 01:04:15,836 --> 01:04:17,876 Speaker 1: It would be as if if you gave a classical penis, 1238 01:04:17,956 --> 01:04:19,996 Speaker 1: she said. The piano is the same, except we just 1239 01:04:20,036 --> 01:04:22,876 Speaker 1: reversed all the keys in one octave. But other than that, 1240 01:04:22,916 --> 01:04:26,116 Speaker 1: it's the same. It would it would just mess with you. 1241 01:04:26,196 --> 01:04:29,516 Speaker 1: I would think it's a different thing. Yeah. Notice, can 1242 01:04:29,516 --> 01:04:30,196 Speaker 1: you ever play it? 1243 01:04:30,636 --> 01:04:33,556 Speaker 3: Kenny actually got it's called a bender, a B bender, right, 1244 01:04:33,716 --> 01:04:35,836 Speaker 3: Kenny actually got a B bender put on his guitar, 1245 01:04:35,876 --> 01:04:37,156 Speaker 3: and he's getting pretty good at it. 1246 01:04:37,316 --> 01:04:39,516 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but you've got the original, You've got the 1247 01:04:40,036 --> 01:04:42,676 Speaker 1: I think the prototype wasn't it be first one? Yeah, 1248 01:04:43,236 --> 01:04:44,516 Speaker 1: well you've got some guitars. 1249 01:04:44,516 --> 01:04:45,916 Speaker 3: Oh, it's an amazing guitar. 1250 01:04:46,796 --> 01:04:48,756 Speaker 2: We have to pause quickly for a break, and then 1251 01:04:48,796 --> 01:04:51,716 Speaker 2: we'll be back with more from Marty Stewart and Bruce Headler. 1252 01:04:56,276 --> 01:04:58,956 Speaker 2: We're back with the rest of Bruce Headlm's conversation with 1253 01:04:59,156 --> 01:04:59,916 Speaker 2: Marty Stewart. 1254 01:05:01,276 --> 01:05:04,476 Speaker 1: So tell me about the Pilgrim. Then you had you 1255 01:05:04,556 --> 01:05:08,316 Speaker 1: had it with stardom, You'd had it with that, You'd 1256 01:05:08,356 --> 01:05:10,676 Speaker 1: run that race in Nashville. 1257 01:05:10,876 --> 01:05:14,636 Speaker 3: Back in the early seventies. Probably the sweetest spot creatively 1258 01:05:14,676 --> 01:05:18,836 Speaker 3: that I've ever known in Nashville was the early nineteen seventies. 1259 01:05:19,676 --> 01:05:22,396 Speaker 3: And the only comparison I think I could throw out 1260 01:05:22,516 --> 01:05:24,876 Speaker 3: is it must have been like Paris. In the twenties, 1261 01:05:25,636 --> 01:05:29,316 Speaker 3: the old world of country music was kind of fading away, 1262 01:05:30,356 --> 01:05:35,316 Speaker 3: and the outlaw movement was taking place. Willie and Whalen 1263 01:05:35,396 --> 01:05:38,836 Speaker 3: and all those great writers that came around. There was 1264 01:05:38,836 --> 01:05:43,356 Speaker 3: a street called Elliston Place in Nashville, and you were 1265 01:05:43,396 --> 01:05:48,876 Speaker 3: either kind of of the old opry crowd or a 1266 01:05:48,916 --> 01:05:52,196 Speaker 3: part of this new world order that was kind of 1267 01:05:52,196 --> 01:05:54,756 Speaker 3: set in the woods on fire. But due to my 1268 01:05:54,876 --> 01:05:56,996 Speaker 3: age and the way I looked in what I thought 1269 01:05:56,996 --> 01:05:59,436 Speaker 3: about as soon as I get through with the ground 1270 01:05:59,476 --> 01:06:02,436 Speaker 3: old opry, you know, I changed clothes and head to 1271 01:06:02,436 --> 01:06:06,916 Speaker 3: Elliston Place and hang out with the outlaws, and so 1272 01:06:07,476 --> 01:06:09,636 Speaker 3: I saw into a different level of stone them there. 1273 01:06:09,676 --> 01:06:12,956 Speaker 3: I saw into a different level of creativity that wasn't 1274 01:06:12,996 --> 01:06:16,916 Speaker 3: offered even as precious as that old Oprey scene and 1275 01:06:16,956 --> 01:06:21,756 Speaker 3: those people were to me. So I just started dialing 1276 01:06:21,796 --> 01:06:25,196 Speaker 3: my way through that, thinking I'm gonna be a star someday, 1277 01:06:25,476 --> 01:06:28,236 Speaker 3: and pretty much decided I'd do whatever it took to 1278 01:06:28,236 --> 01:06:30,996 Speaker 3: get there. And I remember taking a piece of my 1279 01:06:31,116 --> 01:06:35,996 Speaker 3: soul literally and putting it under a rock, going, you know, 1280 01:06:36,156 --> 01:06:38,876 Speaker 3: I'll come back to this someday who you really are. 1281 01:06:38,916 --> 01:06:42,196 Speaker 3: But just go out there by way of craft, ingenuity 1282 01:06:42,276 --> 01:06:46,916 Speaker 3: and just perseverance and get it done, get the job done, 1283 01:06:47,196 --> 01:06:52,956 Speaker 3: become a starmaking machine. And so from the early seventies 1284 01:06:52,996 --> 01:06:56,756 Speaker 3: forward till about that day in Foxwood's we talked about 1285 01:06:57,156 --> 01:06:59,956 Speaker 3: that's the way I lived. And then one day I thought, 1286 01:06:59,996 --> 01:07:02,556 Speaker 3: I am so sick of this. I have enough money 1287 01:07:02,556 --> 01:07:04,356 Speaker 3: now that I can think the way I want to, 1288 01:07:04,516 --> 01:07:07,516 Speaker 3: I can breathe. And a friend of mine told me 1289 01:07:08,156 --> 01:07:10,516 Speaker 3: that about somewhere along the way during those days, you said, 1290 01:07:10,956 --> 01:07:12,636 Speaker 3: you know, you're getting to the age now you should 1291 01:07:12,756 --> 01:07:15,316 Speaker 3: never sign up for anything you don't believe in anymore. 1292 01:07:15,796 --> 01:07:18,356 Speaker 3: You got to probably stand by what you believe in. 1293 01:07:19,516 --> 01:07:22,276 Speaker 3: And in my heart of hearts and I was I 1294 01:07:22,316 --> 01:07:24,596 Speaker 3: was fried. It was time to call time out and 1295 01:07:24,596 --> 01:07:27,036 Speaker 3: go to the woods. But I remember in my heart 1296 01:07:27,116 --> 01:07:30,316 Speaker 3: going back to that rock that put myself under and 1297 01:07:30,556 --> 01:07:34,076 Speaker 3: let me reconnect with that guy. And the result of 1298 01:07:34,116 --> 01:07:38,196 Speaker 3: that was The Pilgrim. It was a return to you 1299 01:07:38,516 --> 01:07:43,196 Speaker 3: heart and soul and storytelling and storytelling and all of 1300 01:07:43,236 --> 01:07:47,156 Speaker 3: the classic themes, all of the timeless aspects of the 1301 01:07:47,236 --> 01:07:49,916 Speaker 3: music that I love. And it put me into the 1302 01:07:49,956 --> 01:07:52,076 Speaker 3: land of shadows. I was under the shadows of some 1303 01:07:52,196 --> 01:07:52,996 Speaker 3: mighty figures. 1304 01:07:53,556 --> 01:07:54,636 Speaker 1: Who were those figures? 1305 01:07:54,716 --> 01:07:58,476 Speaker 3: Thanks on the Pilgrim. When I would write a song, 1306 01:07:58,516 --> 01:08:02,116 Speaker 3: I had an invisible committee in my mind. I thought, 1307 01:08:02,196 --> 01:08:09,076 Speaker 3: if I had Johnny Cash and Merle Haggard and Jimmy Rogers, 1308 01:08:09,316 --> 01:08:15,316 Speaker 3: Flat Bob Dylan, Tom Petty and Hank Williams at the 1309 01:08:15,356 --> 01:08:20,636 Speaker 3: table and I would sing this song to them without Winston, 1310 01:08:20,996 --> 01:08:24,276 Speaker 3: I know I have a song there. So they became 1311 01:08:24,356 --> 01:08:28,116 Speaker 3: my cloud of witnesses that I've kind of again carried 1312 01:08:28,116 --> 01:08:30,236 Speaker 3: around in my mind when I was making The Pilgrim 1313 01:08:30,276 --> 01:08:30,996 Speaker 3: writing songs. 1314 01:08:32,476 --> 01:08:37,356 Speaker 1: Were you all conscious of the group that Steve Earle 1315 01:08:37,396 --> 01:08:40,396 Speaker 1: had come out of, of Guy Clark and Townsvan's Aunt. 1316 01:08:40,916 --> 01:08:44,316 Speaker 1: Was that part of your thinking or it was older. 1317 01:08:44,036 --> 01:08:46,956 Speaker 3: Than that, a little different side of the street. Yeah, 1318 01:08:47,036 --> 01:08:50,836 Speaker 3: they were the Texas Boys, and I'm a Mississippi boy, 1319 01:08:50,876 --> 01:08:53,476 Speaker 3: so that I mean. I loved him, admired him, played 1320 01:08:53,556 --> 01:08:56,796 Speaker 3: music with him. Throw John Prian in that pile too. 1321 01:08:58,156 --> 01:09:01,076 Speaker 3: They wrote a little bit different kind of song than 1322 01:09:01,116 --> 01:09:03,516 Speaker 3: I was looking for at that time, but you know, 1323 01:09:03,556 --> 01:09:06,116 Speaker 3: we were all after the Rodney Crowell put him in there, 1324 01:09:06,476 --> 01:09:09,436 Speaker 3: but I was aware of him, and it back to 1325 01:09:09,476 --> 01:09:11,396 Speaker 3: the fire out of their work. But it was a 1326 01:09:11,396 --> 01:09:12,836 Speaker 3: different kind of song I was writing. 1327 01:09:14,156 --> 01:09:16,876 Speaker 1: And then it's almost as though you cast that album 1328 01:09:16,956 --> 01:09:20,196 Speaker 1: you had different characters. Pam Tillis is on that record. 1329 01:09:20,556 --> 01:09:22,996 Speaker 1: You talked about Emi lud George Jones sings on that record, 1330 01:09:23,036 --> 01:09:23,396 Speaker 1: doesn't he? 1331 01:09:23,476 --> 01:09:23,956 Speaker 3: Yeah? 1332 01:09:23,996 --> 01:09:25,636 Speaker 1: What was that? Had you known him before? 1333 01:09:25,756 --> 01:09:25,836 Speaker 3: Uh? 1334 01:09:25,876 --> 01:09:25,996 Speaker 2: Huh? 1335 01:09:26,676 --> 01:09:29,636 Speaker 3: I saw The Pilgrim was basically my love letter to 1336 01:09:29,676 --> 01:09:35,316 Speaker 3: country music. I wanted to create a story that was 1337 01:09:35,436 --> 01:09:40,356 Speaker 3: told with the soundtrack of country music's past, present, and future, 1338 01:09:40,796 --> 01:09:44,916 Speaker 3: starting with the Mountain Sounds of Ralph Stanley, and that's 1339 01:09:44,956 --> 01:09:48,756 Speaker 3: as deep as you can go to George Jones, Honky 1340 01:09:48,796 --> 01:09:52,876 Speaker 3: talnk Sounds, Emmy Lou to wind up in contemporary country 1341 01:09:52,916 --> 01:09:55,676 Speaker 3: music land with songs like Dragon around these chains of love, 1342 01:09:56,556 --> 01:09:58,516 Speaker 3: with all these vignettes of people. I just saw it 1343 01:09:58,556 --> 01:10:03,436 Speaker 3: as an opera and with people coming and going vignettes. 1344 01:10:04,356 --> 01:10:08,796 Speaker 3: And it was a complicated process, but once I finally 1345 01:10:08,836 --> 01:10:12,756 Speaker 3: got it kind of sliced and diced. The biggest problem 1346 01:10:12,756 --> 01:10:15,236 Speaker 3: I had with that project was the ending. I couldn't 1347 01:10:15,356 --> 01:10:18,996 Speaker 3: come up with an ending. And I was in Austin 1348 01:10:20,116 --> 01:10:22,116 Speaker 3: one day and I bought a piece of stained glass 1349 01:10:23,436 --> 01:10:25,236 Speaker 3: that I carried home on the bus with me and 1350 01:10:25,356 --> 01:10:28,916 Speaker 3: just stuck it in my basement. And one day I 1351 01:10:28,956 --> 01:10:32,996 Speaker 3: was in the basement when I was really trying to 1352 01:10:32,996 --> 01:10:36,476 Speaker 3: figure out this ending, and I saw words at the 1353 01:10:36,476 --> 01:10:39,436 Speaker 3: bottom of the glass, and I brushed it off and 1354 01:10:39,476 --> 01:10:42,916 Speaker 3: it was a poem by Tennyson. Then move the trees, 1355 01:10:42,996 --> 01:10:47,556 Speaker 3: the copses, nod, wings, fluttered, voices, hover near old justin 1356 01:10:47,756 --> 01:10:51,036 Speaker 3: faithful night of God. Right on the prize is near. 1357 01:10:51,596 --> 01:10:54,676 Speaker 3: So pass I hostile, hauling grains by bridge, by forward, 1358 01:10:54,756 --> 01:10:59,356 Speaker 3: by park, by pail, all armed. I ride whatever betide 1359 01:10:59,716 --> 01:11:02,476 Speaker 3: until I find the holy Grail. And I thought, how 1360 01:11:02,476 --> 01:11:04,396 Speaker 3: about it at the end that you say, said the 1361 01:11:04,436 --> 01:11:07,396 Speaker 3: lonesome pilgrim far from home, And I thought, I need 1362 01:11:07,436 --> 01:11:09,476 Speaker 3: to call it eight two two five six one and 1363 01:11:09,556 --> 01:11:11,676 Speaker 3: see if John our Cash will answer me, because he 1364 01:11:11,756 --> 01:11:14,796 Speaker 3: needs to be the voice end this record. And that's 1365 01:11:14,796 --> 01:11:17,236 Speaker 3: how I found the ending to the Pilgrim in the 1366 01:11:17,236 --> 01:11:18,556 Speaker 3: bottom of a stained glass. 1367 01:11:18,676 --> 01:11:22,556 Speaker 1: Wow, Tennis and cowboy poet. Mm hm, your next wasn't 1368 01:11:22,596 --> 01:11:25,556 Speaker 1: your next big project, but another big project which I 1369 01:11:25,636 --> 01:11:30,316 Speaker 1: loved is ghost Train. And tell me how that came about. 1370 01:11:30,676 --> 01:11:34,716 Speaker 3: Well, in the Superlatis and I formed, we set ourselves 1371 01:11:34,716 --> 01:11:39,396 Speaker 3: some standards. First and foremost, I shut. I shut the 1372 01:11:39,436 --> 01:11:45,476 Speaker 3: rehearsal down fifteen minutes honestly into the to the first 1373 01:11:45,556 --> 01:11:48,556 Speaker 3: to the first rehearsal, and I knew that this was 1374 01:11:48,956 --> 01:11:51,396 Speaker 3: a band unlike anything I'd ever I started my first 1375 01:11:51,436 --> 01:11:53,676 Speaker 3: band when I was nine, but I knew this band 1376 01:11:53,796 --> 01:11:58,676 Speaker 3: was unlike anything else I had ever done. And I thought, okay, well, 1377 01:11:58,716 --> 01:12:02,316 Speaker 3: we're musical missionaries or mercenaries however you wanted to pin it. 1378 01:12:02,476 --> 01:12:05,396 Speaker 3: This is bigger than chasing three minute songs that are 1379 01:12:05,396 --> 01:12:09,876 Speaker 3: disposable up and down music row. Let's take our the people, 1380 01:12:10,876 --> 01:12:13,876 Speaker 3: let's figure out who we are out in the woods 1381 01:12:13,876 --> 01:12:17,076 Speaker 3: and then bring it back to town with us. And everybody 1382 01:12:17,116 --> 01:12:18,876 Speaker 3: jumped on board us that if we believe in it, 1383 01:12:18,996 --> 01:12:20,596 Speaker 3: We'll pay to get there. If we don't you can 1384 01:12:20,716 --> 01:12:25,476 Speaker 3: afford us, we'll never play it. So with those lofty 1385 01:12:25,516 --> 01:12:27,756 Speaker 3: standards in mind, we didn't have very many people in 1386 01:12:27,836 --> 01:12:35,116 Speaker 3: the book, but we set forth and I noticed like 1387 01:12:35,196 --> 01:12:38,636 Speaker 3: the first record was one more attempt at country radio. 1388 01:12:38,716 --> 01:12:41,676 Speaker 3: It was called Country Music on Columbia. Then I got 1389 01:12:41,996 --> 01:12:45,116 Speaker 3: an imprint deal and we started doing records like Soul's Chapel, 1390 01:12:45,796 --> 01:12:48,716 Speaker 3: which was a tip of the hat to the vanishing 1391 01:12:48,756 --> 01:12:54,916 Speaker 3: sounds of Delta gospel music, Staple singer style, Badlands Ballads 1392 01:12:54,956 --> 01:12:57,956 Speaker 3: of the Lakota. We did a live record from the Ryman. 1393 01:12:59,156 --> 01:13:03,236 Speaker 3: But somewhere along the way, I remember saying, I feel 1394 01:13:03,276 --> 01:13:05,716 Speaker 3: like we're honored guests everywhere we go, but we still 1395 01:13:05,756 --> 01:13:09,036 Speaker 3: don't have our thing. We still don't have our mission statement. 1396 01:13:10,236 --> 01:13:15,956 Speaker 3: And one day, three words traditional country music, the vanishing 1397 01:13:17,236 --> 01:13:20,516 Speaker 3: of the culture came forth. I thought, Man, we have 1398 01:13:20,676 --> 01:13:26,436 Speaker 3: fifteen minutes left before Kitty Wells and Ray Price and 1399 01:13:26,476 --> 01:13:30,276 Speaker 3: Merle Haggard and all their contemporaries are gone, so let's 1400 01:13:30,316 --> 01:13:33,596 Speaker 3: do something about it. I always admired the Stones. When 1401 01:13:33,636 --> 01:13:37,236 Speaker 3: the Stones got really popular, they shined the light back 1402 01:13:37,276 --> 01:13:41,436 Speaker 3: on muddy Waters and Howland Wolf. Merle Haggard did that 1403 01:13:41,516 --> 01:13:43,676 Speaker 3: early in his career when he got White Hot, he 1404 01:13:43,756 --> 01:13:46,716 Speaker 3: shined the light back on Bob Wills and Jimmy Rogers. 1405 01:13:47,716 --> 01:13:50,716 Speaker 3: With that in mind, and I just said, let's make 1406 01:13:50,756 --> 01:13:53,156 Speaker 3: a thing out of traditional country music. And I found 1407 01:13:53,196 --> 01:13:57,156 Speaker 3: us a deal on a TV network called RFDTV, and 1408 01:13:57,196 --> 01:13:59,236 Speaker 3: we did one hundred and fifty six episodes of a 1409 01:13:59,276 --> 01:14:03,636 Speaker 3: TV show that celebrated that culture and what was left 1410 01:14:03,676 --> 01:14:06,636 Speaker 3: of it. Since the show's been off the air, forty 1411 01:14:06,676 --> 01:14:11,316 Speaker 3: three people encounting have gone. But Ghost Train was one 1412 01:14:11,356 --> 01:14:15,676 Speaker 3: of the records that was in the dead center of 1413 01:14:15,716 --> 01:14:21,116 Speaker 3: that mission. It was taken lost and forgotten, overlooked sounds 1414 01:14:21,196 --> 01:14:27,356 Speaker 3: from Nashville's Studio B great days and writing new songs 1415 01:14:27,396 --> 01:14:29,836 Speaker 3: around them, and you know, cutting a couple older songs. 1416 01:14:30,316 --> 01:14:32,916 Speaker 3: But it was about bringing Studio B back to life 1417 01:14:32,916 --> 01:14:35,716 Speaker 3: where all those hits had been cut, those sounds that 1418 01:14:36,516 --> 01:14:40,236 Speaker 3: had been disregarded due to the changing of times, which 1419 01:14:40,276 --> 01:14:44,036 Speaker 3: I knew were timeless. That became Studio B. That became 1420 01:14:44,076 --> 01:14:45,356 Speaker 3: Ghost Train in the Studio. 1421 01:14:45,036 --> 01:14:50,636 Speaker 1: B sessions, and you got to sing with your wife, Connie. 1422 01:14:50,796 --> 01:14:55,716 Speaker 3: Yeah, Connie has made fifty five records and her first 1423 01:14:55,756 --> 01:14:58,916 Speaker 3: hit came in nineteen sixty four RCA record. It's a 1424 01:14:58,916 --> 01:15:02,236 Speaker 3: song called Once a Day. Huge hit got her started. 1425 01:15:02,916 --> 01:15:04,716 Speaker 3: But we were standing in the middle of Studio B 1426 01:15:04,876 --> 01:15:07,956 Speaker 3: making this record, and again, it's such a music box, 1427 01:15:07,996 --> 01:15:10,796 Speaker 3: and I thought I would love to hear Connie's voice 1428 01:15:10,836 --> 01:15:13,476 Speaker 3: in this studio one more time. And I wrote a 1429 01:15:13,516 --> 01:15:18,076 Speaker 3: song with her, and we did it as a duet 1430 01:15:18,236 --> 01:15:23,796 Speaker 3: and included it on that record, and then later we 1431 01:15:23,836 --> 01:15:26,516 Speaker 3: did a whole record on her in that studio, you know, 1432 01:15:26,516 --> 01:15:28,916 Speaker 3: a couple of years later. That went on to do 1433 01:15:28,996 --> 01:15:31,356 Speaker 3: great things for her, But it was it was about 1434 01:15:31,356 --> 01:15:34,956 Speaker 3: putting the real country music back in royalty, back in 1435 01:15:34,956 --> 01:15:36,796 Speaker 3: that studio, and it worked. 1436 01:15:36,956 --> 01:15:39,396 Speaker 1: Had she performed in that studio before, Has she ever 1437 01:15:39,476 --> 01:15:40,036 Speaker 1: recorded there? 1438 01:15:40,116 --> 01:15:43,836 Speaker 3: Oh, that's where she That's where the first you know, 1439 01:15:43,996 --> 01:15:48,036 Speaker 3: probably twenty records of her career was done. She loved 1440 01:15:48,076 --> 01:15:50,756 Speaker 3: that room. That was her home studio, but she hadn't 1441 01:15:50,756 --> 01:15:52,356 Speaker 3: been there in a lot of years because the studio 1442 01:15:52,396 --> 01:15:55,916 Speaker 3: had closed and it now operates as a classroom. But 1443 01:15:56,396 --> 01:16:00,036 Speaker 3: after hours we went in, after the tours were done 1444 01:16:00,076 --> 01:16:02,396 Speaker 3: and after the students were taught, we made it back 1445 01:16:02,396 --> 01:16:05,316 Speaker 3: into a studio and so, yeah, she she loved going. 1446 01:16:05,156 --> 01:16:08,676 Speaker 1: Back there and you one of your songs you co 1447 01:16:08,716 --> 01:16:11,876 Speaker 1: wrote with Johnny Cash is on that record, right and. 1448 01:16:11,836 --> 01:16:14,956 Speaker 3: Hanging Yeah, that's the last song here was a part 1449 01:16:14,956 --> 01:16:18,036 Speaker 3: of is that right? Yeah? I had been to Fulsom. 1450 01:16:18,436 --> 01:16:22,836 Speaker 3: We played Fulsom, California, the city, and I asked if 1451 01:16:22,916 --> 01:16:25,956 Speaker 3: I could go out to the prison and see where 1452 01:16:25,956 --> 01:16:29,796 Speaker 3: they made the record, and the governor of California got 1453 01:16:29,796 --> 01:16:33,036 Speaker 3: me a pass and they took me out there, and 1454 01:16:33,196 --> 01:16:36,156 Speaker 3: I wanted to see the cafeteria. I knew that's where 1455 01:16:36,156 --> 01:16:39,156 Speaker 3: the record was, and behind the back wall of the 1456 01:16:39,156 --> 01:16:43,276 Speaker 3: cafeteria they showed me it was. Now it served as 1457 01:16:43,276 --> 01:16:45,516 Speaker 3: the common band hall for all the bands that play 1458 01:16:45,556 --> 01:16:48,436 Speaker 3: at Fulsham Prisons, and the day I was there, it 1459 01:16:48,476 --> 01:16:51,156 Speaker 3: just happened to be the Fulsome country band and they 1460 01:16:51,236 --> 01:16:53,476 Speaker 3: let me set in with them and we played Mama 1461 01:16:53,516 --> 01:16:57,276 Speaker 3: Tride and Fallsome Prison. Yeah. But right off to that 1462 01:16:58,276 --> 01:17:03,036 Speaker 3: was the hanging gallows where they executed people, and that 1463 01:17:03,156 --> 01:17:05,356 Speaker 3: really got me all the way back to Nashville. I 1464 01:17:05,436 --> 01:17:08,636 Speaker 3: was thinking about that room and I thought, Okay, what 1465 01:17:08,956 --> 01:17:12,396 Speaker 3: if if you were the hangman, what do you do? 1466 01:17:12,436 --> 01:17:13,636 Speaker 3: You go home? Tell you why? If you did a 1467 01:17:13,636 --> 01:17:17,316 Speaker 3: great job today, that must be an awful job, an 1468 01:17:17,436 --> 01:17:22,236 Speaker 3: awful job. And I started this song and it says, 1469 01:17:22,356 --> 01:17:28,636 Speaker 3: obviously killed another man today. It's hard to believe I 1470 01:17:28,676 --> 01:17:33,516 Speaker 3: lost count at thirty. I've grown two numbed agrees. The 1471 01:17:33,636 --> 01:17:37,476 Speaker 3: bottle helps me cope when I laid down at night, 1472 01:17:38,156 --> 01:17:41,796 Speaker 3: and when the dope rolls through my veins. It all 1473 01:17:41,996 --> 01:17:51,756 Speaker 3: feeds out of same hangmen, hangman. That's my stock in trade, hangmen, 1474 01:17:52,756 --> 01:17:57,036 Speaker 3: hangmen sending bad men to their grieves. And that's all 1475 01:17:57,076 --> 01:18:01,396 Speaker 3: I had. And so John, we were next door neighbors, 1476 01:18:01,716 --> 01:18:04,556 Speaker 3: and I went by to see him before I went 1477 01:18:04,556 --> 01:18:07,156 Speaker 3: on the road, and I was telling him about my experience, 1478 01:18:07,476 --> 01:18:09,876 Speaker 3: and I just quoted those words. That's as far as 1479 01:18:09,876 --> 01:18:12,436 Speaker 3: I can get. And from his wheelchair he spoke up. 1480 01:18:12,476 --> 01:18:16,636 Speaker 3: He said, who killed who? I asked myself time and 1481 01:18:16,676 --> 01:18:20,316 Speaker 3: time again, God have mercy on the soul of a hangman. 1482 01:18:20,396 --> 01:18:23,476 Speaker 3: I went, well, that took care of that. You know. 1483 01:18:23,796 --> 01:18:25,756 Speaker 1: We wrote somebody recording. 1484 01:18:25,316 --> 01:18:29,756 Speaker 3: This a second verse in about five minutes. I always 1485 01:18:29,876 --> 01:18:33,476 Speaker 3: had always left. He could name people really good. I said. 1486 01:18:33,876 --> 01:18:36,756 Speaker 3: I went, there's a woman down the street. I pointed him. 1487 01:18:36,796 --> 01:18:41,556 Speaker 3: He went, named Rosalie McFall. I went Rosalie McFall. She 1488 01:18:41,636 --> 01:18:44,676 Speaker 3: don't ask me any questions. When I come to call 1489 01:18:45,836 --> 01:18:51,716 Speaker 3: her arms was soft and warm, her words true and kind. 1490 01:18:52,076 --> 01:18:55,436 Speaker 3: I forget the last lines that if she holds me 1491 01:18:55,436 --> 01:18:58,436 Speaker 3: in her arms, that all fades out of sight, something 1492 01:18:58,476 --> 01:19:01,596 Speaker 3: like that. But we sit there and wrote that song. 1493 01:19:03,076 --> 01:19:05,116 Speaker 3: And he looked so beautiful that day. He was in 1494 01:19:05,156 --> 01:19:08,516 Speaker 3: his wheelchair, but he had on his black shirt and 1495 01:19:08,796 --> 01:19:12,116 Speaker 3: the afternoon light was kissing in the back of his shirt. 1496 01:19:12,716 --> 01:19:16,356 Speaker 3: He looked like an old president. I had my camera, said, Jarl, 1497 01:19:16,436 --> 01:19:18,476 Speaker 3: let me take your picture, and I knew he didn't 1498 01:19:18,476 --> 01:19:22,476 Speaker 3: want me to. He said, all right. So first two 1499 01:19:22,476 --> 01:19:25,236 Speaker 3: frames he was just kind of slumped. I said, I said, 1500 01:19:25,236 --> 01:19:28,436 Speaker 3: where's Johnny Cash? And he sat up straight and he 1501 01:19:28,476 --> 01:19:32,156 Speaker 3: looked like an old president. And I took the picture. 1502 01:19:33,116 --> 01:19:35,436 Speaker 3: On the way out of the room, I sang him 1503 01:19:35,436 --> 01:19:37,396 Speaker 3: a song, or I played him a song that I 1504 01:19:37,476 --> 01:19:39,396 Speaker 3: just recorded of his, called the Walls of a Prison. 1505 01:19:40,276 --> 01:19:43,796 Speaker 3: And I sat at his feet, held his ankles. He says, 1506 01:19:43,836 --> 01:19:45,636 Speaker 3: I've never heard you sing that way before. I said, 1507 01:19:45,636 --> 01:19:47,956 Speaker 3: I never felt that way before. He said, excellent, my son. 1508 01:19:49,516 --> 01:19:53,236 Speaker 3: So I stood up and I said I have to 1509 01:19:53,276 --> 01:19:57,516 Speaker 3: go to Washington. I said, playing East Coast show or two. 1510 01:19:58,476 --> 01:20:01,396 Speaker 3: I said, anything you want. He said no, and he 1511 01:20:01,436 --> 01:20:03,396 Speaker 3: looked around the room. He says, anything in this room 1512 01:20:03,476 --> 01:20:06,756 Speaker 3: you want? I said, just you love. He said you 1513 01:20:06,796 --> 01:20:09,956 Speaker 3: got it, and I said, I'll see you when I 1514 01:20:10,036 --> 01:20:12,116 Speaker 3: get home. I said, you got plenty of rope. He said, 1515 01:20:12,116 --> 01:20:14,476 Speaker 3: I got plenty of rope. How's your spirit? He's good? 1516 01:20:15,676 --> 01:20:21,276 Speaker 3: And four days later he was gone, wow, but we 1517 01:20:21,956 --> 01:20:23,476 Speaker 3: signed off on good terms. 1518 01:20:23,636 --> 01:20:27,716 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very good. I'd love to talk about Way 1519 01:20:27,756 --> 01:20:31,036 Speaker 1: Out West and all your other records, but let's talk 1520 01:20:31,036 --> 01:20:33,316 Speaker 1: a little more about altitude. I haven't even asked you 1521 01:20:33,396 --> 01:20:35,716 Speaker 1: how you write? Are you the kind of guy? Do 1522 01:20:35,756 --> 01:20:38,596 Speaker 1: you always have a guitar nearby? Are you writing every day? 1523 01:20:39,476 --> 01:20:43,196 Speaker 3: Are you I go months and don't write sometimes. You know, 1524 01:20:43,276 --> 01:20:46,396 Speaker 3: I've also been guilty of getting out of the shower 1525 01:20:46,476 --> 01:20:48,556 Speaker 3: and taking a can of shaving cream and squirting it 1526 01:20:48,596 --> 01:20:51,116 Speaker 3: all over the mirror and writing with my finger because 1527 01:20:51,596 --> 01:20:54,196 Speaker 3: I knew it was a good line. I never know, 1528 01:20:54,916 --> 01:20:56,676 Speaker 3: you know, you write, so you never know when it's 1529 01:20:56,676 --> 01:21:01,196 Speaker 3: going to strike. Coming out of the whole traditional country 1530 01:21:01,276 --> 01:21:08,156 Speaker 3: music mission and doing all that, I thought that throughout 1531 01:21:08,196 --> 01:21:10,836 Speaker 3: that I looked at him and miss accomplished. I knew 1532 01:21:10,836 --> 01:21:12,916 Speaker 3: we needed to turn the wheels. So I called my 1533 01:21:12,916 --> 01:21:15,796 Speaker 3: buddy Mike Campbell. After writing a record a Way Out West, 1534 01:21:15,876 --> 01:21:18,676 Speaker 3: I went on to ma a cosmic country music record. 1535 01:21:18,716 --> 01:21:20,836 Speaker 3: It's time to go to the desert and let it fly. 1536 01:21:22,316 --> 01:21:26,476 Speaker 3: And so we did, and Way Out West Record did 1537 01:21:26,516 --> 01:21:28,636 Speaker 3: a lot of cool things for our band. I felt 1538 01:21:28,636 --> 01:21:31,676 Speaker 3: the needle turn, the wheel turn, And when it was 1539 01:21:31,716 --> 01:21:34,036 Speaker 3: time to start making music for a new record beyond 1540 01:21:34,076 --> 01:21:37,796 Speaker 3: Way Out West, these songs just kept coming that felt 1541 01:21:37,836 --> 01:21:42,476 Speaker 3: like they were kindred to an extension of Way Out West, 1542 01:21:42,596 --> 01:21:46,316 Speaker 3: and again just inspired by all those things we've been 1543 01:21:46,316 --> 01:21:51,516 Speaker 3: doing on the road and this song after songs started coming, 1544 01:21:52,516 --> 01:21:56,156 Speaker 3: and I write my best. I tend to love the 1545 01:21:56,236 --> 01:21:58,556 Speaker 3: right most on the road. I love writing on the 1546 01:21:58,556 --> 01:22:01,876 Speaker 3: bus going down the road looking out of America to 1547 01:22:01,916 --> 01:22:02,716 Speaker 3: the left and the right. 1548 01:22:03,756 --> 01:22:06,076 Speaker 1: I said earlier, A great sounding record. You know, it 1549 01:22:06,196 --> 01:22:11,556 Speaker 1: starts with your lost Bird's face instrumentals. There's two or 1550 01:22:11,556 --> 01:22:14,276 Speaker 1: three of them on the record. They sound great. 1551 01:22:14,516 --> 01:22:18,916 Speaker 3: Well. That goes back to scoring films, and the Pilgrim 1552 01:22:18,916 --> 01:22:21,876 Speaker 3: taught me a lot about that too, about pacing. Sometimes 1553 01:22:21,876 --> 01:22:24,836 Speaker 3: when there's two slow songs back to back and they 1554 01:22:24,836 --> 01:22:29,996 Speaker 3: don't quite flow. An instrumental helps, and I was me 1555 01:22:30,036 --> 01:22:33,036 Speaker 3: and my band, we all group listening to instrumentals, and 1556 01:22:33,076 --> 01:22:35,036 Speaker 3: there used to be a lot of instrumental records made 1557 01:22:35,036 --> 01:22:39,236 Speaker 3: in Nashville, so we can pick. So we write instrumentals. 1558 01:22:39,716 --> 01:22:42,356 Speaker 3: So it's nice to me in the journey, in the 1559 01:22:42,396 --> 01:22:45,556 Speaker 3: listening experience, if an instrumental can carry you forward. So 1560 01:22:46,236 --> 01:22:46,996 Speaker 3: that's what that's. 1561 01:22:46,836 --> 01:22:51,636 Speaker 1: About, sitting alone. You may not have grown up with 1562 01:22:51,676 --> 01:22:53,836 Speaker 1: the Beatles. That sounds like a George Harrison song to me. 1563 01:22:53,916 --> 01:22:58,996 Speaker 1: That's got a great, great guitar piece, and space has 1564 01:22:58,996 --> 01:23:02,396 Speaker 1: a like a did you actually use a sitar on SPEs? 1565 01:23:03,076 --> 01:23:04,716 Speaker 3: Well, there's an electric gitar. 1566 01:23:04,596 --> 01:23:07,276 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you use like an East Indian. 1567 01:23:08,156 --> 01:23:11,076 Speaker 3: Country in Eastern music. What do you think I'll be it? 1568 01:23:11,316 --> 01:23:16,036 Speaker 1: Well, because you use the country the East Indian scale too, 1569 01:23:16,156 --> 01:23:17,916 Speaker 1: so it's got that flat sixth. 1570 01:23:18,156 --> 01:23:20,036 Speaker 3: Some of the shows we were doing with Steve Miller, 1571 01:23:20,036 --> 01:23:22,396 Speaker 3: Steve had a beautiful song that he does called Wild 1572 01:23:22,396 --> 01:23:26,836 Speaker 3: Mountain Honey that features a gitar. I have to tell you, 1573 01:23:27,556 --> 01:23:29,436 Speaker 3: I went, I think I have one of those in 1574 01:23:29,436 --> 01:23:32,476 Speaker 3: my warehouse somewhere, and I found it probably hadn't seen it. 1575 01:23:32,516 --> 01:23:35,596 Speaker 3: Two times in twenty years, and I pulled it out 1576 01:23:35,676 --> 01:23:38,436 Speaker 3: and started goofing around and the next thing I hear 1577 01:23:38,476 --> 01:23:39,116 Speaker 3: comes space. 1578 01:23:40,116 --> 01:23:42,836 Speaker 1: Do you often switch instruments to try and get a 1579 01:23:42,876 --> 01:23:44,716 Speaker 1: new way of writing? Do you ever write in the mandolin? 1580 01:23:44,796 --> 01:23:45,356 Speaker 1: For example? 1581 01:23:45,996 --> 01:23:49,316 Speaker 3: And they all, I'm looking at two guitars in this 1582 01:23:49,436 --> 01:23:52,556 Speaker 3: room right now. Both guitars have personalities, and I think 1583 01:23:52,596 --> 01:23:55,516 Speaker 3: if you're trying to write a song, they would encourage 1584 01:23:55,556 --> 01:23:59,036 Speaker 3: you into a certain kind of lyric or melody. So 1585 01:24:00,196 --> 01:24:01,356 Speaker 3: there's stuff done in here. 1586 01:24:02,516 --> 01:24:03,956 Speaker 1: The last thing I do want to ask you about 1587 01:24:04,076 --> 01:24:07,636 Speaker 1: is The Angels Come Home, which is it's an album 1588 01:24:07,676 --> 01:24:10,716 Speaker 1: full of feedback and great sonic effects and suddenly you're 1589 01:24:10,716 --> 01:24:15,076 Speaker 1: playing the acoustic with a little bit of accompaniment at 1590 01:24:15,116 --> 01:24:16,556 Speaker 1: the end. Can you tell me about that song? 1591 01:24:17,076 --> 01:24:19,516 Speaker 3: I was at an awards show, and you know how 1592 01:24:19,636 --> 01:24:24,636 Speaker 3: those shows tend to go. Everybody tries to outdo everybody. 1593 01:24:25,596 --> 01:24:30,476 Speaker 3: They will, you know, if it's not pyrotechnics, it's a choir, 1594 01:24:30,636 --> 01:24:32,916 Speaker 3: it's just you know, it's just everybody. It's all about 1595 01:24:32,956 --> 01:24:36,716 Speaker 3: the three minutes your artist gets in your act, your eyes, 1596 01:24:36,756 --> 01:24:39,316 Speaker 3: an act you get. And I was at one of 1597 01:24:39,356 --> 01:24:43,156 Speaker 3: those and I was just beat to death about it. 1598 01:24:43,156 --> 01:24:47,036 Speaker 3: Had nothing to do with music uslely, you know. And 1599 01:24:47,156 --> 01:24:50,316 Speaker 3: in the midst of all this, this singer songwriter came 1600 01:24:50,356 --> 01:24:53,476 Speaker 3: out with a guitar, wearing a flannel shirt and sang 1601 01:24:53,556 --> 01:24:56,196 Speaker 3: a song and you could hear a pin drop in 1602 01:24:56,236 --> 01:25:01,196 Speaker 3: the room, and everybody's heart just melted. And it reminded 1603 01:25:01,236 --> 01:25:06,996 Speaker 3: me that the truth inside of a song, simply presented 1604 01:25:07,956 --> 01:25:13,596 Speaker 3: unadorned from the heart, has more power than everything else 1605 01:25:13,716 --> 01:25:16,716 Speaker 3: put together. And the Angels came down as one of 1606 01:25:16,716 --> 01:25:19,196 Speaker 3: those songs that I felt like, you know, this whole 1607 01:25:19,676 --> 01:25:23,396 Speaker 3: this whole record was about, you know, swirling around in 1608 01:25:24,356 --> 01:25:27,876 Speaker 3: the spirit world or you know, cosmic this, cosmic that, 1609 01:25:28,796 --> 01:25:31,116 Speaker 3: and the spirit world probably is the most cosmic of 1610 01:25:31,156 --> 01:25:34,356 Speaker 3: all places. And the angels if you believe in them, 1611 01:25:34,396 --> 01:25:37,556 Speaker 3: which I do. You know, I know there's times in 1612 01:25:37,596 --> 01:25:39,836 Speaker 3: my life that they I felt like I've had a 1613 01:25:39,916 --> 01:25:45,436 Speaker 3: hand and being rescued from dark moments and dark ways 1614 01:25:45,436 --> 01:25:48,836 Speaker 3: of life. And that song is probably the most autobiographical 1615 01:25:48,836 --> 01:25:51,796 Speaker 3: thing on the record. I thought, well, back to the 1616 01:25:51,836 --> 01:25:54,396 Speaker 3: guy in the flannel shirt at the end of all 1617 01:25:54,436 --> 01:25:57,276 Speaker 3: the hooplah, come out and tell the truth, see what happens. 1618 01:25:57,716 --> 01:25:59,676 Speaker 1: Was there a particular time in your life that song 1619 01:25:59,756 --> 01:26:02,156 Speaker 1: was about or just about that. 1620 01:26:02,316 --> 01:26:07,036 Speaker 3: Oh good lord. You know. I was a rock and 1621 01:26:07,116 --> 01:26:11,876 Speaker 3: roll knucklehead lifestyle from about nineteen seventy three when Lester 1622 01:26:11,916 --> 01:26:15,276 Speaker 3: Flatt started playing hippie shows. So I finally crashed and 1623 01:26:15,316 --> 01:26:17,596 Speaker 3: burned two or three times. I went, Okay, it's time 1624 01:26:17,596 --> 01:26:20,516 Speaker 3: to grow up, deal with this, get sober, and do 1625 01:26:20,596 --> 01:26:23,316 Speaker 3: something about it. And that became a way of life 1626 01:26:23,356 --> 01:26:26,596 Speaker 3: for me about twenty years ago, and I've enjoyed every 1627 01:26:26,676 --> 01:26:27,516 Speaker 3: second of it since. 1628 01:26:28,196 --> 01:26:29,996 Speaker 1: When I heard the song, it almost sounded like it 1629 01:26:30,116 --> 01:26:32,516 Speaker 1: was a song about death though, that the angels were 1630 01:26:32,556 --> 01:26:33,396 Speaker 1: coming down for you. 1631 01:26:34,236 --> 01:26:38,356 Speaker 3: Well, when that time comes and we all have that 1632 01:26:38,396 --> 01:26:41,556 Speaker 3: in common, that will happen to each and every one 1633 01:26:41,596 --> 01:26:45,116 Speaker 3: of us. You know, It's just fine with me if 1634 01:26:45,156 --> 01:26:48,196 Speaker 3: a herd of angels coming, take. 1635 01:26:48,036 --> 01:26:50,036 Speaker 1: Me by the hand and leave me on if you 1636 01:26:50,076 --> 01:26:50,716 Speaker 1: have to go. 1637 01:26:51,036 --> 01:26:53,836 Speaker 3: If you have to go. But I'm married to an angel, 1638 01:26:53,876 --> 01:26:54,556 Speaker 3: so there you go. 1639 01:26:54,796 --> 01:26:57,196 Speaker 1: All right, Well it's already it's happening every day. 1640 01:26:57,196 --> 01:26:58,036 Speaker 3: Then, yeah, you bet. 1641 01:26:58,316 --> 01:26:59,196 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. 1642 01:26:59,956 --> 01:27:00,436 Speaker 3: Thank you. 1643 01:27:00,636 --> 01:27:03,556 Speaker 1: Just a great treat and another great record. 1644 01:27:03,836 --> 01:27:07,156 Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, thanks for all you're doing. You're keeping 1645 01:27:07,156 --> 01:27:08,076 Speaker 3: the real stuff alive. 1646 01:27:08,236 --> 01:27:10,076 Speaker 1: I hope, so, I hope, so and thank you. 1647 01:27:12,756 --> 01:27:14,916 Speaker 2: Thanks to Marty Stewart for sharing all those great stories 1648 01:27:14,916 --> 01:27:18,356 Speaker 2: and memories from his illustrious career. We can hear all 1649 01:27:18,356 --> 01:27:20,516 Speaker 2: of our favorite Marty Stewart songs on a playlist at 1650 01:27:20,516 --> 01:27:24,596 Speaker 2: broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel 1651 01:27:24,596 --> 01:27:27,556 Speaker 2: at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you 1652 01:27:27,556 --> 01:27:30,716 Speaker 2: can find all of our new episodes. You can follow 1653 01:27:30,796 --> 01:27:34,556 Speaker 2: us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced 1654 01:27:34,596 --> 01:27:37,156 Speaker 2: with help from Lea Rose and Eric Sandler. Our show 1655 01:27:37,236 --> 01:27:40,996 Speaker 2: is engineered by Echo Mountain. Broken Record is a production 1656 01:27:41,076 --> 01:27:43,636 Speaker 2: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others 1657 01:27:43,676 --> 01:27:47,916 Speaker 2: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is 1658 01:27:47,956 --> 01:27:50,916 Speaker 2: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad free 1659 01:27:50,956 --> 01:27:53,876 Speaker 2: listening for four to ninety nine a month. Look for 1660 01:27:53,916 --> 01:27:57,716 Speaker 2: Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. And if you like 1661 01:27:57,796 --> 01:28:00,436 Speaker 2: this show, please remember to share, rate and mo view 1662 01:28:00,516 --> 01:28:03,836 Speaker 2: us on your podcast app. Our theme musics by Kenny Beats. 1663 01:28:04,276 --> 01:28:05,196 Speaker 2: I'm Justin Richman.