Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a brid egg
Speaker 1: Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Frida Egg, Frida egg
Speaker 1: Egg Frida egg bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to
Speaker 1: run off the gum. Welcome to the Friday Egg Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Garrett Morrison, and today we are talking about Full Swing.
Speaker 1: Full Swing is the docuseries on professional golf that just
Speaker 1: premiered on Netflix and has created a tremendous buzz in
Speaker 1: the golf world. Everybody's talking about this, and I would
Speaker 1: imagine that there are a lot of podcasts in your
Speaker 1: feed on this very topic. So I hope my guest
Speaker 1: today and I will be able to introduce some fresh
Speaker 1: stuff into the conversation. But right off the bat, I
Speaker 1: just want to say that it's really exciting. I think
Speaker 1: that professional golf is getting the Netflix treatment. There's real
Speaker 1: potential that it will attract new interest in golf and
Speaker 1: deepen people's appreciation and understanding of the game and some
Speaker 1: of its characters. And it's just a huge accomplishment that
Speaker 1: it got made at all. So congratulations to Chad Mumm
Speaker 1: and Paul Martin and the whole production team there. So
Speaker 1: with that said, my guest is Megan Schuster, who is
Speaker 1: an editor and podcast host for The Ringer. Meghan has
Speaker 1: covered both golf and Formula one for The Ringer, so
Speaker 1: I figured she would be an especially insightful guest for
Speaker 1: this episode because Falsewing is more or less trying to
Speaker 1: follow the model of Drive to Survive, which was the
Speaker 1: is the Netflix docu series that has done a lot
Speaker 1: to popularize F one in America. I've been wanting to
Speaker 1: have Megan on for a long time. She's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite voices out there, so really excited to have
Speaker 1: this conversation with her. So let's talk about the issue
Speaker 1: of spoilers and when the best time to listen to
Speaker 1: this podcast might be. Our intention is to make this
Speaker 1: episode something you could listen to before or after watching
Speaker 1: all eight episodes of the full Swing season, but we
Speaker 1: do talk about specific moments in the series. Now, the
Speaker 1: traditional notion of spoilers I don't think really applies here,
Speaker 1: because if you're listening to this podcast, you probably know
Speaker 1: basically what happened in professional golf last year. I would
Speaker 1: be shocked if you didn't know who won the Majors,
Speaker 1: for instance, and the show is in some part about
Speaker 1: who won the Majors. Now, there might be some people
Speaker 1: out there who don't want to know anything about what
Speaker 1: the Netflix camera's caught behind the scenes, so that's up
Speaker 1: to you. But basically our goal here was to ride
Speaker 1: that line between giving a general overview of the show
Speaker 1: and talking about some of the most interesting specific scenes.
Speaker 1: Now for a more in depth take on Full Swing,
Speaker 1: we at The Friday Egg have actually created a whole
Speaker 1: separate podcast. It's called Full Swing Thoughts, and it's hosted
Speaker 1: by Andy Johnson, Brendan Porath, and Joseph Lamania. I haven't
Speaker 1: listened to every episode yet, but I'm excited to dig
Speaker 1: in because those guys are so smart and funny. Now,
Speaker 1: Full Swing Thoughts, this new show is intended to be
Speaker 1: consumed after you've seen the series or as you're watching
Speaker 1: the series, so it's a little more in depth specific
Speaker 1: and I could imagine that this podcast right here could
Speaker 1: be one that sort of introduces Full Swing to you
Speaker 1: and gives you some ideas about our take on it
Speaker 1: and some discussion around that, and then Full Swing Thoughts
Speaker 1: can really get into the nitty gritty for you. You
Speaker 1: can find full Swing thoughts wherever you get your podcasts,
Speaker 1: and there's also a link to the feed in the
Speaker 1: show notes for this episode. Check that out and without
Speaker 1: further ado, let's go to Megan Shuster. All right, so,
Speaker 1: Meghan Schuster, do you go by Meg?
Speaker 2: I'd go by Meghan, but my social media I signed
Speaker 2: up for it when I was in high school and
Speaker 2: it all has Meg on there, So I get called
Speaker 2: both pretty often at this point in my life and
Speaker 2: fine with both, but I generally would introduce myself as Megan.
Speaker 1: Okay, because I feel like sometimes people see a Meghan
Speaker 1: and just automatically start calling her Meg, which isn't isn't
Speaker 1: always wanted. We do have a Meg in the frieda Egg,
Speaker 1: so happy to keep you as a Megan. So how
Speaker 1: did you you cover both golf and F one for
Speaker 1: The Ringer? I know you worked for Grantland I believe
Speaker 1: as well Rip Rip, so golf and F one? How
Speaker 1: did you end up covering golf for The Ringer's what's
Speaker 1: your background in the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, golf was a little bit of a happy accident.
Speaker 2: The Ringer started in twenty sixteen and we just didn't
Speaker 2: have a whole lot of peace on staff who either
Speaker 2: loved golf or had the ability to cover it. We
Speaker 2: have a lot of golf fans on staff, but most
Speaker 2: of them are heavy into other sports, other major responsibilities.
Speaker 2: They didn't really have time to kind of follow it
Speaker 2: in that way. So I think it was ahead of
Speaker 2: maybe the either twenty sixteen or twenty seventeen Masters. They
Speaker 2: asked me if I was interested in writing about it,
Speaker 2: and I just kind of jumped into it from there.
Speaker 2: I've always been a big golf fan horrible golf player,
Speaker 2: so I always feel like a little bit of a
Speaker 2: fraud when I talk about golf listen and write about golf,
Speaker 2: because it's the whole game. Thing does not come naturally
Speaker 2: to me. But yeah, one of my favorite sports to watch.
Speaker 2: It has become one of my favorite things to cover. Too.
Speaker 1: Cool. And you've also been getting into F one. You
Speaker 1: sometimes co host or host the Ringer F one show
Speaker 1: as well, and that's relevant for the current discussion of
Speaker 1: golf and the Netflix documentary because of course they're sort
Speaker 1: of trying to follow the F one I Have to
Speaker 1: Survive model, where there was this very popular F one
Speaker 1: docu series about the sport, and a lot of people
Speaker 1: ended up getting into Formula one because they watched that
Speaker 1: documentary and we're sort of fascinated by it. So did
Speaker 1: you get into F one through Drive to Survive? Where
Speaker 1: you want of? I don't know if there's a name
Speaker 1: for that, that generation of F one fans, but I'm
Speaker 1: among them. Are you among them as well?
Speaker 2: I am? Yes, it was one of my kind of
Speaker 2: COVID lockdown shows. I'd had multiple co workers recommend it
Speaker 2: to me, and it was just something that I never
Speaker 2: really thought I would enjoy. I've never been a big
Speaker 2: racing fan before in my life, Like, wasn't an indiecar, Gal,
Speaker 2: wasn't into Nascar, So I kind of thought it was pointless.
Speaker 2: And then you know, in the middle of lockdown, we
Speaker 2: all have to find our comfort somewhere, and so I
Speaker 2: turned it on and I got really heavily invested. And
Speaker 2: then yeah, now Box to Box Films, which is the
Speaker 2: company that produces Drive to Survive, is now also producing
Speaker 2: Full Swing, the Golf Show, Point Break the Time a show,
Speaker 2: and is yeah kind of helping Netflix to get into
Speaker 2: this sort of sports docuseries territory. But yes, I'm definitely
Speaker 2: part of I think they just call it the drive
Speaker 2: to Survive generation. At least that's what I call it.
Speaker 1: Nothing more derogatory than that. I have a feeling that, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know this, but I feel like hardcore F
Speaker 1: one fans have to somewhat look down their noses at
Speaker 1: people who got into it through this documentary.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, yes, that is the case. Luckily, I think
Speaker 2: most of our F one audience is well. I actually
Speaker 2: I can't say that. I don't know where they're all from.
Speaker 2: I would imagine a lot of them are Americans who
Speaker 2: probably have gotten into it over the last few years
Speaker 2: along with the rest of us. But yeah, yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: sure there are some looking down of the nose at
Speaker 2: all of us, some.
Speaker 1: F one snobs. So what do you think, I mean,
Speaker 1: just as a way to set up how we're going
Speaker 1: to assess what full Swing is doing. What do you
Speaker 1: think may drive to survive? So good?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a combination of a few things.
Speaker 2: And I think this will cross over a bit with
Speaker 2: the golf too. I think first and foremost, as far
Speaker 2: as you know, number of people that you need to know,
Speaker 2: big names that you need to know. In formula one,
Speaker 2: I feel like it's fairly accessible in that way. There's
Speaker 2: only twenty drivers on the grid at any point in time,
Speaker 2: ten team principles if you feel like you need to
Speaker 2: know who the team principles are ten teams. You know,
Speaker 2: when I try to get my friends into it, I
Speaker 2: always say that, you know, maximum thirty people, really twenty people,
Speaker 2: really ten if you want to get into, like the
Speaker 2: title race of it. So I feel like that alone
Speaker 2: makes it a pretty effective sport to get into. But
Speaker 2: as far as drive to survive specifically, I think they
Speaker 2: did a really good job, at least of the first
Speaker 2: two seasons of not focusing too heavily on the title race.
Speaker 2: Especially in those seasons it was you know, Mercedes by
Speaker 2: a mile and no one else was really close. So
Speaker 2: instead of focusing on that, they really let you into
Speaker 2: the lives of you know, Daniel Ricardo and some other big,
Speaker 2: big personalities on the grid and made you fall in
Speaker 2: love with the people behind it rather than the sport itself.
Speaker 2: And then as you know, the seasons go along and
Speaker 2: you start to get a little bit more familiar with it,
Speaker 2: then they start really introducing kind of the racing and
Speaker 2: strategy aspect and kind of try to educate you along
Speaker 2: the way, but just to hook people. I think they
Speaker 2: really focused on the people behind Formula One, and I
Speaker 2: think that was ultimately really successful.
Speaker 1: And there was a kind of boldness to that strategy, right,
Speaker 1: because the only Formula One driver that I knew by
Speaker 1: name before watching Drives to Survive was was Lewis Hamilton. Sure,
Speaker 1: and Lewis Hamilton did not participate in the first season
Speaker 1: of Drive to Survive. Mercedes wasn't there. Ferrari wasn't there, right,
Speaker 1: Ferrari was probably the only other team that I could
Speaker 1: have named as a Formula One team. I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, Ferrari has to be one of the teams.
Speaker 1: You know, Michael Schumacher drove for that, right, and so
Speaker 1: you know there's a there's a gutsiness to opening with
Speaker 1: other characters. But it was also by necessity, right, because
Speaker 1: they couldn't They didn't have access to these big star drivers,
Speaker 1: and so they made the most of Daniel Ricardo and
Speaker 1: good Steiner, and they really made a great season or
Speaker 1: two of television out of those characters. And then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Lewis Hamilton, I'm sure, was looking at
Speaker 1: the success of it and saying, well, crap, now Ricardo
Speaker 1: is more popular than I am, what's going on here?
Speaker 1: And had to end up participating, and so the gamble
Speaker 1: sort of paid off there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Season one for them definitely seemed like a bit
Speaker 2: of a prove it season. I remember when I started
Speaker 2: watching Drive to Survive, I actually had messaged the person
Speaker 2: who recommended it to me and was like, wait, if
Speaker 2: Lewis Hamilton won this season, why did I not see
Speaker 2: any of him? Why did he not speak like like,
Speaker 2: what's going on here? And he had to actually inform
Speaker 2: me that, Yeah, like both Mercedes and Ferrari declined to
Speaker 2: participate and wanted to see basically how it went and
Speaker 2: whether it was worth them getting involved at all or
Speaker 2: if it would just kind of be a distraction. And
Speaker 2: now you know, they're stalwarts on the series every year.
Speaker 2: Lewis Hamilton is will be in season five. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I think from that perspective, it was really interesting and
Speaker 2: it was kind of a big bet, I think for
Speaker 2: them to believe that they could cultivate these characters and
Speaker 2: make people care about the drivers who are farther down
Speaker 2: the grid, and ultimately, I think, in that way, make
Speaker 2: f one as a whole more interesting than just caring
Speaker 2: about the top two teams at any given time, right.
Speaker 1: And I think there's a number of other aspects of
Speaker 1: F one that make it lend itself so well to TV.
Speaker 1: You know, some of those you mentioned, like there's a
Speaker 1: limited number of teams and people you have to be
Speaker 1: familiar with in order to really follow F one. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just ten teams on the grid, and you've got
Speaker 1: the two drivers per team, and you've got the team bosses,
Speaker 1: and that's really all you need to be familiar with.
Speaker 1: The races happen, you know, once a week or once
Speaker 1: every couple of weeks during the F one season, and
Speaker 1: you can watch them pretty easily, Like it doesn't take
Speaker 1: that long to follow the races. And so if you're
Speaker 1: trying to distill this down to a season of television,
Speaker 1: it's pretty easy. In a lot of ways. Everybody's going
Speaker 1: for the same goal, which is to win the season
Speaker 1: long championship or to place high in the season long championship.
Speaker 1: And you know, there's a simplicity to the F one
Speaker 1: season that seems. I mean, it's already structured like a
Speaker 1: television season right from the get go, you know, and
Speaker 1: that that had to have made it pretty simple to
Speaker 1: make Drive to Survive in a lot of ways compared
Speaker 1: to other sports, especially tennis and golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like you say, it's it's very easy
Speaker 2: to track one specific driver's progression across a full season.
Speaker 2: They're going to have their highs, They're going to have
Speaker 2: races where they suck. They're going to have races where
Speaker 2: they get on the radio with their race engineer, team
Speaker 2: principle and they're arguing, and you know, you can always
Speaker 2: blow that up into something which you know is something
Speaker 2: Drive to Survive has been accused of a little bit
Speaker 2: as dramatizing Formula One, which I'm sure we can get
Speaker 2: into with golf later on. I'm sure there'll be some
Speaker 2: criticisms there rightly so. And you know, now that I've
Speaker 2: been watching a few actual full F one seasons, having
Speaker 2: you know, started with Drive to Survive and now actually
Speaker 2: watching the races themselves, I feel like I understand and
Speaker 2: those criticisms, But also for me, I feel like the
Speaker 2: show and the actual Formula one season almost exist in
Speaker 2: two separate universes for me, where the show now feels
Speaker 2: like a reality show and I love watching it For
Speaker 2: the drama. I love watching it for the chaos that
Speaker 2: it causes, where you know, if you're watching the full
Speaker 2: f one season, you're not just getting those kind of
Speaker 2: distilled little nuggets, you're getting the week to week picture.
Speaker 2: So in that perspective, I think it's really interesting. But
Speaker 2: I love both for you know, both of the things
Speaker 2: that they offer.
Speaker 1: All Right, So let's get into full swing a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's eight episodes. When we release this podcast, they'll have
Speaker 1: been out for one day, twenty four hours about and so,
Speaker 1: you know, just assessing this season of TV as a whole,
Speaker 1: what do you think were some of the things that
Speaker 1: it did well?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it followed the Drive to Survive model
Speaker 2: in the same way that it really rather than focusing
Speaker 2: on results across the whole season, rather than focusing on
Speaker 2: on course performance, it really tried to let you know
Speaker 2: who some of these guys are from, you know, major
Speaker 2: stars that people are probably already familiar with, like Justin
Speaker 2: Thomas down to you know, the rookies, to Joel Damon,
Speaker 2: to some guys that maybe you know, if you hadn't
Speaker 2: watched this full PGA Tour season, you didn't really know about.
Speaker 2: So I think in that way, it succeeded. Yeah, there
Speaker 2: are other struggles, but I think that peer kind of
Speaker 2: distilled character creation, if you want to say it that way,
Speaker 2: was was really successful for me.
Speaker 1: I thought the series did do some good subtle character
Speaker 1: work in a lot of cases, and one thing that
Speaker 1: it was particularly good at was when a player was
Speaker 1: less than likable. The series did a good job of
Speaker 1: sort of conveying that without being obvious about it. And
Speaker 1: so I think the episode that focuses on Ian Poulter,
Speaker 1: for instance, it shows a lot of Ian Poulter's positive characteristics,
Speaker 1: you know, his great gift of guess, his ability to
Speaker 1: describe things and narrate things in a way that not
Speaker 1: many athletes have, his sense of humor, but it also
Speaker 1: portrays some of his brattiness and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: His air of smugness and superiority, like it comes through
Speaker 1: really clearly in that show about him. And maybe that's
Speaker 1: inevitable just because he was being himself more or less,
Speaker 1: but I thought that the show did a pretty good
Speaker 1: job of showing that and in some other cases where
Speaker 1: the characters were like less likable than Tony fenow Right,
Speaker 1: who is who is maybe the nicest and most likable
Speaker 1: person on the PGA tour and comes across that way
Speaker 1: in the show. They're you know, not everybody is coming
Speaker 1: across that way in their episodes, And I thought that
Speaker 1: was good, right, that the show is not trying to
Speaker 1: promote these guys, that it's trying to show something about
Speaker 1: who they actually are. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you don't have a little villainy, I
Speaker 2: think it all gets to be portrayed as kind of
Speaker 2: puff pc and like, oh, well, everyone on the PGA
Speaker 2: Tour is such a great guy. Why wouldn't you want
Speaker 2: to root for these people? And it just feels more
Speaker 2: fake if you don't have any of that edge in there.
Speaker 2: I feel like with most of the guys, they tried
Speaker 2: to give you at least a semi three D picture
Speaker 2: of who they are, you know, with how they interact
Speaker 2: with their families, how they interact with other professionals on
Speaker 2: the course, what is going through their minds if they're
Speaker 2: miked up on the course and you know, in the
Speaker 2: middle of their round. So I feel like they tried
Speaker 2: to give you, at least in most cases, a relatively
Speaker 2: holistic view of who these guys are. So yeah, that
Speaker 2: was fun.
Speaker 1: To see who do you think which player do you
Speaker 1: think benefits the most image wise from their appearance in
Speaker 1: this in this docu.
Speaker 2: Series, Oh, for sure, Joel Damon. And I think that's
Speaker 2: for a lot of reasons, Like I feel like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm and I think a lot of people are just
Speaker 2: drawn to like the average everyday golfer who goes out
Speaker 2: there tries their best. Like it's just very relatable from
Speaker 2: that perspective about his game and the fact that he
Speaker 2: will just openly tell you, no, I don't think I
Speaker 2: have what it takes to be the best in the world.
Speaker 2: I don't think I have what it takes to be
Speaker 2: in a major or win a major, I guess. But
Speaker 2: I also found sort of his kind of mental struggles
Speaker 2: very fascinating and very illuminating and that air of vulnerability
Speaker 2: that I feel like can be really hard to get
Speaker 2: from professional athletes, and he was just so open and
Speaker 2: honest about Yeah, like I this is something that I
Speaker 2: have to work on. This is something that if I
Speaker 2: do ultimately want to win consistently on the PGA Tour
Speaker 2: be one of the top twenty some thirty some golfers,
Speaker 2: that this is something I need to overcome, and even
Speaker 2: his caddy's saying like, I don't know if Joel wants
Speaker 2: to be in the top thirty, Like, I don't think
Speaker 2: he wants that pressure. I just I always feel like
Speaker 2: with golf, something I love the most is getting inside
Speaker 2: golfers heads. And that episode, I felt like, along with
Speaker 2: one or two of the other ones, really let you
Speaker 2: see the inner machinations of how somebody goes out there
Speaker 2: and tries to do this every week.
Speaker 1: I agree Joel's episode was great, and his relationship with
Speaker 1: Gino Bonneley, his caddy, was really endearing, right, And you know,
Speaker 1: those guys are very open with each other. They say,
Speaker 1: I love you a lot, you know, and they you know,
Speaker 1: it is a kind of marriage, and they have a
Speaker 1: particular dynamic that is unique to the two of them.
Speaker 1: I also liked, you know, it's sort of a trope
Speaker 1: in these series to have the the workout scene. Right everybody,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, everybody gets the personal trainer scene. It's in
Speaker 1: you know, Drive to Survive in full swing. Just about
Speaker 1: every episode we see Rory throwing a big medicine ball
Speaker 1: against a mirror. I don't know exactly how that works, actually,
Speaker 1: if you're supposed to be.
Speaker 2: I was a little concerning. Yeah, it was like, is
Speaker 2: that gonna break? That seems like a hazard. I yeah,
Speaker 2: it was very confused by that.
Speaker 1: It looked really cool, but it just didn't seem all
Speaker 1: that functional. But Joel Damon's personal trainer scene was a
Speaker 1: hilarious It was almost like a parody of one of
Speaker 1: these personal trainer scenes in a sports documentary because he
Speaker 1: was just like, you know, like cause like I don't
Speaker 1: want to do this, can you? Can you please give
Speaker 1: me some things that make me look like I'm not
Speaker 1: a complete goober and just sort of suffering and hating it.
Speaker 1: And I just loved it, like it was it was
Speaker 1: really real.
Speaker 2: Well, and his pregnant wife being in there with him,
Speaker 2: basically talking trash to him and saying that like she
Speaker 2: was doing a better job than he was, and she
Speaker 2: was right, she is, she wasn't lying. It was just
Speaker 2: really incredible television.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was great. So another player that I think
Speaker 1: oddly will sort of benefit from his appearance in this series,
Speaker 1: you know, and oddly because he is not really the
Speaker 1: subject of one of these episodes, was Joking Neeman, who
Speaker 1: appears most in Meto Perera's episode or Meto Prera's segment
Speaker 1: of his episode, Woking Neeman has gone to live right
Speaker 1: he is now on the live Golf tour. The series
Speaker 1: doesn't really touch on that. It shows him as sort
Speaker 1: of Meto Pereira's friend, and you know, in a weird way,
Speaker 1: like he's not in the series very much. But it
Speaker 1: showed me something different about Woking Neeman, who I've sort
Speaker 1: of regarded as kind of a buttoned up, very organized,
Speaker 1: with drawn for the most part, very talented young golfer.
Speaker 1: But in his appearances in these scenes with Mito Pereira,
Speaker 1: he kind of like had a little bucket hat on
Speaker 1: and he was sort of being the funny guy, like
Speaker 1: the party guy, and he's really skinny and little. I
Speaker 1: got a new perception of him as the guy in
Speaker 1: the friend group who's sort of the jester, and that
Speaker 1: to me made him charming. It's very much a sidebar
Speaker 1: in the series, but some of these players, some players
Speaker 1: sort of appear here and there and don't really become
Speaker 1: the subject of an episode, and some of those appearances
Speaker 1: would seem to be beneficial to them.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, I'm with you. I think Joaquin did
Speaker 2: come across very charming. I also thought it was very
Speaker 2: sweet seeing how he kind of supported Meto when he
Speaker 2: started doing better than expected during the PGA Championship, and
Speaker 2: how he was, you know, trying to give him some advice,
Speaker 2: trying to help him stay relatively calm and locked in,
Speaker 2: and even how he was walking alongside you know, Mito's
Speaker 2: wife and trying to give her some perspective on holes.
Speaker 2: And you know, on the eighteenth when he has his meltdown,
Speaker 2: Joaquin is there behind the green talking to his wife saying, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, this isn't actually for par this is for Birdie,
Speaker 2: and you know, just just like trying to support them
Speaker 2: through it. I thought it was sweet, and it's sweet
Speaker 2: to see, like, you know, the kind of the genuine
Speaker 2: friendships I guess that form on tour because we're exposed
Speaker 2: a lot to you know, the Justin Thomas, Jordan Speth,
Speaker 2: Ricky Fowler triad and and that's all well and good,
Speaker 2: but there are so many other relationships out there that
Speaker 2: are really important and I liked seeing that a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the guys from South and Central America on tour
Speaker 1: are really tight with each other, and we don't get
Speaker 1: much of a portrayal in that in mainstream golf media,
Speaker 1: be partially because of the language barrier, but this, you know,
Speaker 1: the Netflix series was able to break through that a
Speaker 1: little bit and speak to Meadow's wife, whom Meto describes
Speaker 1: as little but charming, which I thought was hilarious. She's little,
Speaker 1: but she's charming, Like those are.
Speaker 2: Two mutual ELI things. Yeah, like, oh, she's short, so
Speaker 2: very funny.
Speaker 1: Person, but she's actually quite charming.
Speaker 2: I guess Mito is pretty tall as far as golfers
Speaker 2: are concerned, so maybe that's what he's referring to as
Speaker 2: their height difference. I don't know, but yeah, that was
Speaker 2: very interesting.
Speaker 1: So any players in your opinion who did not come
Speaker 1: off well?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I I don't know if I feel like he
Speaker 2: didn't come off well or just we didn't really see
Speaker 2: any kind of real personality with him. And that was
Speaker 2: Colin Morikawa. For me, I felt like, you know, you know,
Speaker 2: it doesn't help when you're in an episode alongside Tony
Speaker 2: Fein now, who is the most personable golfer on the
Speaker 2: PGA tour, and you see him as you know, such
Speaker 2: a family man. He has his whole you know, group
Speaker 2: of kids following him around on tour he's there, you know,
Speaker 2: supporting his wifeless she's going through the death of her father,
Speaker 2: and you know, no one is going to come out
Speaker 2: looking like, you know, an angel next to that. But
Speaker 2: he just didn't seem like he had very much to offer.
Speaker 2: Like really, what we saw from him was you know,
Speaker 2: kind of him and his dog on his jet, which
Speaker 2: was fine, and then his meeting with Adida's overclose, which
Speaker 2: like it was like a totally fine thing. What he
Speaker 2: did when he was kind of trying to pick out
Speaker 2: his outfits, like you want to look nice when this
Speaker 2: is what you do for a living, but when that
Speaker 2: is sort of your portrayal up against Tony Finow, it
Speaker 2: just didn't come across really great to me. It didn't
Speaker 2: change my opinion of him, I don't think, but it
Speaker 2: also didn't make my opinion of him better.
Speaker 1: I really wonder about Marikawa's segment and whether some of
Speaker 1: the unlikability that comes across was intentional on the part
Speaker 1: of the makers of that that show, because you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think that Colin Morikawa is necessarily known as
Speaker 1: a as somebody who's hard to deal with. I think
Speaker 1: he's maybe regarded by people in the media as being
Speaker 1: a little bit dull and guarded and very managed. But
Speaker 1: you know, there are not that many scenes of Markawa.
Speaker 1: First of all, he plays no role in the drama
Speaker 1: of that episode, right because he he doesn't really do
Speaker 1: itthing in a tournament. He just kind of shows up
Speaker 1: to the Open, which he won the year before and
Speaker 1: delivers back the trophy. That's the most we really get
Speaker 1: from him. But then the other scenes of him are
Speaker 1: on his private jet, as you mentioned, complaining about one
Speaker 1: of his gloves that doesn't fit. Yes, yes, and in
Speaker 1: that Adidas meeting, which, as you say, like it's valid
Speaker 1: for him to give feedback on the clothes that he's
Speaker 1: going to wear. He wants to be comfortable. That's what
Speaker 1: the meeting is for. But that scene was so awkward
Speaker 1: because you have this Adidas guy who's just like using
Speaker 1: all this corporate speak and kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: so is It just seems awkward and that's what we
Speaker 1: get of Colin Morikawa.
Speaker 2: It did have me questioning kind of what was left
Speaker 2: on the cutting room floor as far as Morikawa goes,
Speaker 2: like whether it was just that they didn't end up
Speaker 2: getting much time with him, so they needed to use
Speaker 2: what they had or like you're saying, whether it was
Speaker 2: more of an intentional choice where they did get more
Speaker 2: time with him and that is what they decided that
Speaker 2: they wanted to have come a in the show. And
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that, but that was
Speaker 2: one of my kind of bigger personality related questions coming away,
Speaker 2: was like, is that really was at the end game?
Speaker 2: And you know, these people are so good at what
Speaker 2: they do that it does kind of make me think
Speaker 2: that that was the direction they wanted it to go.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'll be curious once people have watched it
Speaker 2: to see what their overall reaction is, because yeah, I
Speaker 2: was very curious about that.
Speaker 1: Did you have a favorite family member?
Speaker 2: Ooh, so I think it's a tie for me. Uh,
Speaker 2: two people. We already talked about. One of them a
Speaker 2: little bit. Mito Pereira's wife, I think her name is Antonia,
Speaker 2: was just very sweet to see how stressed out she
Speaker 2: was for Meto during the PGA Championship. And you know,
Speaker 2: we don't really see like golf family is on the
Speaker 2: course and until you know, somebody wins and then we
Speaker 2: see the big happy reaction and how you know, sweet
Speaker 2: it is and how excited everyone is and this was
Speaker 2: really the opposite of that. This is what was her
Speaker 2: watching her husband melt down in real time, and it
Speaker 2: was almost painful, Like I had to pausit at one
Speaker 2: point and just take a deep breath and like, remember
Speaker 2: that those are not my emotions happening, they're hers. But
Speaker 2: it was it was tough to see her go from
Speaker 2: you know, so excited over the Friday and Saturday to
Speaker 2: so so down and trying to be there for him
Speaker 2: on Sunday. I thought she was great, and then I
Speaker 2: also he had relatively limited time. But I found Matt
Speaker 2: Fitzpatrick's brother Alex, very funny and very relatable. And you know,
Speaker 2: Matt Fitzpatrick is someone who can be a little bit
Speaker 2: sullen or a little bit more reserved, and I don't
Speaker 2: feel like he shows a ton of personality all the time.
Speaker 2: But Alex was like the total opposite and totally made
Speaker 2: up for that, and I felt like he helped show
Speaker 2: a different side of Matt too, So I liked both
Speaker 2: of them a lot.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. In the Fitzpatrick episode, the contrast with Fitzpatrick that
Speaker 1: is set up is Dustin Johnson, which makes sense because DJ,
Speaker 1: in his approach to the game is in many ways
Speaker 1: the opposite of Fitzpatrick. He's the opposite in terms of
Speaker 1: physical stature, and you know, there's a rich contract there.
Speaker 1: But DJ's segment of that episode didn't really come to
Speaker 1: anything because he simply just didn't do very well in
Speaker 1: the US Open last year. But when Alex Fitzpatrick shows
Speaker 1: up and is who he is, sort.
Speaker 2: Of this lad, right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a bloke and he and he and
Speaker 1: he shows up in the episode, It's like, this is
Speaker 1: a great point of contrast with Matt. It kind of
Speaker 1: shows what Matt's both positive and you know, more challenging
Speaker 1: qualities are, you know. And I think Fitzpatrick comes across
Speaker 1: okay in the episode, but on his own he's a
Speaker 1: little bit hard to relate to until you just realize
Speaker 1: that he's just a nerd, right, That's that's it. He's
Speaker 1: just really into golf. He loves the specifics of it,
Speaker 1: and he works incredibly hard and has gotten a lot better,
Speaker 1: and all of that is very admirable, but he can
Speaker 1: be a little bit hard to relate to. I think
Speaker 1: his brother is the is the bridge there for sure.
Speaker 2: I agree that the one thing that I or I
Speaker 2: guess The other thing that I was excited about you
Speaker 2: got to see in the Fitzpatrick episode was all of
Speaker 2: his old notebooks, because that was sort of the talking
Speaker 2: point around him, you know, coming out of that US Open,
Speaker 2: was He's written down every golf shot he's ever hit
Speaker 2: since he was I forget how old, fifteen fourteen And
Speaker 2: I was always like, is that real? Like you can
Speaker 2: say that and that's fine, But seeing all of those
Speaker 2: notebooks that he still had stored away with his family,
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, okay, this really is you. And
Speaker 2: then when he and Alex were talking on the range
Speaker 2: and Alex was like, do you actually write down every
Speaker 2: shot that you hit on the range? Too? And he
Speaker 2: said yes. I was like, oh, okay, you are. That
Speaker 2: is just your mindset. This is not for show.
Speaker 1: That which is crazy to write down every shot you
Speaker 1: hit on the range, that's just right. That's kind of
Speaker 1: another level. I mean a lot of players keep track
Speaker 1: of every shot they hit on the course, but I'm
Speaker 1: not sure how many are out there taking notes on
Speaker 1: the range. Another shot out for a family member I
Speaker 1: have to give is sahith Igala's dad, who is just
Speaker 1: a sort of a ray of light and yeah, and
Speaker 1: you know, Smith is very likable on his own, but
Speaker 1: it's kind of clear where he comes from and some
Speaker 1: of the qualities that he has when you meet his dad.
Speaker 1: There are talking heads in this series, right There are
Speaker 1: people who sort of help contextualize things and narrate things
Speaker 1: that the players themselves are not able to, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of explain in an effective way themselves. We have
Speaker 1: Sean Fully, we have Amanda Renner, we have Dan Rappaport,
Speaker 1: we have Dyllan's Chair. I think all of them did
Speaker 1: quite well. Any of those that you thought sort of
Speaker 1: stood out as ones who might want to return and
Speaker 1: you know, take on that role again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I will say all the talking heads
Speaker 2: have a relatively difficult job in this show because, you know,
Speaker 2: similar to Formula one, they're trying to explain to the
Speaker 2: rules about what happens. They often have to go into
Speaker 2: detail about, you know, what a golf tournament entails all
Speaker 2: four rounds. I think they had to mention multiple times
Speaker 2: throughout the show, how the cut line works, and how
Speaker 2: many players are advancing in the fact that you don't
Speaker 2: get money if you don't make the cut and all
Speaker 2: of that. So it's not easy to be I guess
Speaker 2: super interesting with this stuff. But I thought Sean Foleyo
Speaker 2: was was great. I liked his perspective a lot. I
Speaker 2: felt like he was very personable and maybe this is
Speaker 2: just more what he got to weigh in on, but
Speaker 2: I liked his perspective a lot. I also, I always
Speaker 2: love Amanda Runner, so I was really happy to see
Speaker 2: her on that. I thought she did a great job.
Speaker 1: I hope they gave her like an honorary executive producer
Speaker 1: credit or something, because she was given the hardest job
Speaker 1: I think of any of the narrators in this series,
Speaker 1: and that was to tell us what a cut was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what verdies and bogies were. She has often gone to to,
Speaker 1: you know, do those explainers for new people to the game,
Speaker 1: and that is such a hard job to do effectively,
Speaker 1: and you know, she might be the most professional person
Speaker 1: in golf media. She pulls it off. She does it
Speaker 1: with a smile, with good energy and makes it pleasant
Speaker 1: to listen to, so it's not annoying. Favorite random scene
Speaker 1: or moment that stands out to you. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of little micro scenes in this in this series,
Speaker 1: Are there any that sort of stick in your memory?
Speaker 2: There are like five that I think I could call
Speaker 2: to mind from brooks Kepka's episode alone that is coming
Speaker 2: out of the show. Really the episode that I think
Speaker 2: is going to stick with me and the one that
Speaker 2: I found most overall illuminating, and the moment that I
Speaker 2: will remember most, I think is, you know, he just
Speaker 2: didn't perform very well in a tournament, had some disappointing results,
Speaker 2: and was coming back to his home in Jupiter and
Speaker 2: his you know, fiance was showing him some clothes she
Speaker 2: was going to wear I'm guessing on her bachelorette or
Speaker 2: you know, something pre wedding, and he's sitting on this
Speaker 2: kind of like fluffy oversized swing that they have in
Speaker 2: their house because professional golfers have swings in their home
Speaker 2: and that's fine and normal, and he is He's just
Speaker 2: sitting there, dazed, completely not paying attention, nodding along being like, yeah,
Speaker 2: sounds great, and you can just see him staring off
Speaker 2: into space in his own head. And he kind of
Speaker 2: explains later, He's like, you know, I am just really
Speaker 2: in my head about my game right now, Like if
Speaker 2: I'm not on the course, I'm like thinking about my swing,
Speaker 2: which seems to be a really new phenomenon for him,
Speaker 2: and something he's pretty honest about throughout the episode. But
Speaker 2: that just seeing you know, this big burly man sitting
Speaker 2: on this fluffy swing looking at clothes and just like
Speaker 2: could not be more checked out, is something that will
Speaker 2: stick with me for quite a while.
Speaker 1: And looking haggard, like very haggard. He doesn't look good
Speaker 1: in his episode. He looks broken down, in pain, tired.
Speaker 1: The bleached hair doesn't help in a lot of cases.
Speaker 1: It just kind of looks sad and limp.
Speaker 2: It makes it look like a midlife crisis. Honestly, it's
Speaker 2: really hard. It's a hard episode to watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm laughing about it, but it is actually really sad.
Speaker 1: It's seeing him in that state. It's hard to see
Speaker 1: anybody struggling as profoundly as he clearly is in that episode.
Speaker 1: And to his credit, he's super open, vulnerable, honest about
Speaker 1: the struggle that he's going through. He says at one point,
Speaker 1: which this is I found this stunning. I can't compete
Speaker 1: with these guys on a week to week basis. You
Speaker 1: never hear a golfer say that much less Brooks Koepka,
Speaker 1: who his whole persona is, I can beat anyone winning
Speaker 1: golf tournaments as easy. That was his whole thing in
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. Now he's saying, I
Speaker 1: can't compete with Scotty Scheffler. This, you know, like a
Speaker 1: character from a fifties sitcom, Scotti Scheffler. I can't compete
Speaker 1: with that guy. I mean. It's just an astonishing episode overall,
Speaker 1: I thought. And it's made up of scenes like the
Speaker 1: ones that you mentioned, which are very, very effective.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the vulnerability when he's sitting on his couch with
Speaker 2: his mom and he is talking again about Scotty and
Speaker 2: he's saying, you know, Scotty's out there, he's the number
Speaker 2: one player in the world. Because he's not thinking about
Speaker 2: his game. He's like, I can virtually guarantee you that
Speaker 2: he leaves the core and is unbothered by what has
Speaker 2: happened on the course. And even when he's on the course,
Speaker 2: he's not overthinking things. He's processing at his normal speed,
Speaker 2: normal rate, just going about the motions because it's going
Speaker 2: so well. And there's like this longing in his voice
Speaker 2: when he's talking about that, like you know, that's how
Speaker 2: it used to be for him when he was kind
Speaker 2: of dominating winning those four majors, and he's like, I'm
Speaker 2: at the opposite place right now. I'm overthinking everything. I
Speaker 2: can't calm my mind down. I can't stop thinking about
Speaker 2: this game when I'm off the course. And that was
Speaker 2: like very painful for him to say. And yeah, I
Speaker 2: really give him a lot of kudos for being as
Speaker 2: honest about it as he was. And you know how
Speaker 2: the injuries have affected him in things. And it really
Speaker 2: was illuminating to me too about his decision to go
Speaker 2: to live and it seems like that opportunity maybe just
Speaker 2: came up for him at the right or they got
Speaker 2: to him at the right time where he isn't competing,
Speaker 2: he doesn't feel like he has this drive to beat
Speaker 2: the best players out there anymore on a week to
Speaker 2: week basis. Yeah, it felt like a little bit of
Speaker 2: like a Rosetta stone for me of like, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is why it kind of Brooks has been doing what
Speaker 2: he's been doing over this time because he just has
Speaker 2: this big crisis of confidence.
Speaker 1: I'm washed up. I'm offered a big bag of money
Speaker 1: not only for myself but also for my brother. Yes,
Speaker 1: and that's you know that that is yeah, that's the
Speaker 1: story of that episode. They don't spell it out like that,
Speaker 1: but it's clear what that episode is implying that he
Speaker 1: knew he was washed and that's why he took the
Speaker 1: big bag of money and ran. And so yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a very illuminating a scene that comes to mind for me.
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody else is probably going to notice
Speaker 1: this unless it become It could become a meme, this
Speaker 1: scene on Twitter. I could see that happening Pat Perez
Speaker 1: in a random scene. Pat Perez was not a participant
Speaker 1: in this documentary, but he shows up and I believe
Speaker 1: the RBC heritage talking to somebody I'm not even sure
Speaker 1: who might might have been polter. He knows everyone's follower
Speaker 1: counts on Twitter, on on Instagram, yes, really specifically, he
Speaker 1: knows how many people follow Ricky Fowler on Instagram. He
Speaker 1: knows how many people follow Phil Mickelson on Twitter. He
Speaker 1: was just pulling these numbers off the top of his head,
Speaker 1: not looking at his phone. This stuff is in Pat
Speaker 1: Perez's head. What's with that?
Speaker 2: It was late, Like you said, it was amazing. He
Speaker 2: wasn't like, oh, you know, Ricky's got around thirty million followers.
Speaker 2: He was like, he's got one hundred and fifty three million,
Speaker 2: or he's got you know, however many thousand Phil has
Speaker 2: you know, at one point six eight million follows. I
Speaker 2: was like, what is he? And like you said, just
Speaker 2: totally off the cup they started this. I think they
Speaker 2: were talking about Rickey Fowler maybe and why he's in
Speaker 2: so many commercials and you know, he has such a
Speaker 2: big social media following and he doesn't post. That was
Speaker 2: another thing that I remembered where he was like, he
Speaker 2: who doesn't ever pa.
Speaker 1: He doesn't even earn it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like, how often are you checking Ricky Fowler's Instagram? Buddy?
Speaker 1: He must be really up to date? And it was, Uh,
Speaker 1: that was just so weird and uh and in allow ways, yes,
Speaker 1: one of us totally. This episode of The Fried Egg
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Speaker 1: All right, so we have covered a lot of the
Speaker 1: positives of the series, some of the things that were funny,
Speaker 1: some of the things that the Netflix crew did well,
Speaker 1: and there are those things. What do you think were
Speaker 1: some of the difficulties that this show faced in covering
Speaker 1: a season of professional golf? What is tricky about the
Speaker 1: subject that this documentary tried to cover.
Speaker 2: I think there are a lot of things. I think,
Speaker 2: you know, like we've kind of mentioned already, just the
Speaker 2: sheer number of tournaments, the fact that each tournament is
Speaker 2: four days, the fact that not everyone is at the
Speaker 2: same tournaments, and it's just difficult to create kind of
Speaker 2: a consistent story arc across the season, you know, like
Speaker 2: we have a Tour Championship at the end of the year,
Speaker 2: but generally there's not, i don't know, like a super
Speaker 2: giant arc at the end of the year where everything
Speaker 2: is coming together and everything matters like there are in
Speaker 2: some other sports.
Speaker 1: Nobody cares about the FedEx, nobody cares about the Tour
Speaker 1: Championship is like the worst tournament of the season. That
Speaker 1: is a huge problem. Nobody cares about the season long championship,
Speaker 1: whereas an F one that is people's lives to you know,
Speaker 1: not only win the championship, but they care if they
Speaker 1: get fourth as opposed to fifth, and that's absent in golf.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's a really good point. You're going on
Speaker 1: to some other factors as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also think they struggled a bit to kind
Speaker 2: of delineate for people the difference between winning a major
Speaker 2: and winning an average tournament. You know, they did a
Speaker 2: lot at the Waste Management Open, which is a great
Speaker 2: and wonderful tournament and incredibly fun, but you know, I
Speaker 2: didn't feel like there was a whole lot of difference
Speaker 2: portrayed between winning that versus winning you know, the US
Speaker 2: Open and some other things. And even like I think
Speaker 2: the closing arc to Tony Finow's story was him winning
Speaker 2: at the three M, which, like, I live in Minnesota
Speaker 2: and I love golf, but like the three M, very
Speaker 2: few people care about the three M, So so that
Speaker 2: was a little bit difficult for me, knowing what I
Speaker 2: know about golf, and I'm trying to come at this
Speaker 2: with like, Okay, this is primarily you know, they're trying
Speaker 2: to mix it in for people who do know golf
Speaker 2: and for people who don't sort of like drive to survive,
Speaker 2: and so I'm like, you're gonna have some hiccups there.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing that I had an issue
Speaker 2: with too was the live stuff. And I felt like
Speaker 2: a lot of this series was build like they were
Speaker 2: going to really kind of dig into the controversy and
Speaker 2: really try to show some of the tensions that were happening.
Speaker 2: And you know, they interviewed a lot of the live
Speaker 2: guys like Brooks, Stuff's and Johnson Ian Poulter all of that,
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like any of them were necessarily very
Speaker 2: interrogated on their decision. And I'm guessing some of that
Speaker 2: has to do with the fact that, you know, this
Speaker 2: show is related to the PGA tour, and it's hard
Speaker 2: for them to like objectively come at someone and be like,
Speaker 2: why did you join? You know what about all of
Speaker 2: these you know, deeper issues like when you say that
Speaker 2: you know this, you did this for your family and
Speaker 2: for the money, and you know, don't you think about X,
Speaker 2: Y and Z. And they showed a little bit of
Speaker 2: the clips of part conferences where they were asked that,
Speaker 2: but it didn't seem like the producers themselves were really
Speaker 2: digging into that in any way, and that was something
Speaker 2: that I felt was kind of a failing. That was
Speaker 2: something I was really looking forward to seeing in the show,
Speaker 2: and felt like it felt pretty flat overall.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think that Live was unlucky for
Speaker 1: this series in a lot of ways. And that's the
Speaker 1: opposite of what a lot of people thought last year
Speaker 1: when Live was happening, and people were like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: the Netflix documentary has got to be amazing. This is
Speaker 1: the perfect time to be covering the PGA Tour in
Speaker 1: a docu series format. And I think that it was
Speaker 1: actually really unlucky that Live happened this year because it
Speaker 1: threw a wrench in the works of what this season
Speaker 1: had to do, which was to introduce pro golf to
Speaker 1: a big audience. And clearly the choice was made that
Speaker 1: we need to do character portraits, We need to bring
Speaker 1: these players on the stage, introduce them to people, make
Speaker 1: them easy to relate to in some ways, try to
Speaker 1: explore a diversity of players, right. You know, episodes six
Speaker 1: and seven deal with non white players on the PGA tour,
Speaker 1: which I think was really important for this series to do,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that they did it, but it was,
Speaker 1: you know, it gave you an idea of how complex
Speaker 1: the task was of just introducing a cast of characters
Speaker 1: in the first season. I think they were always going
Speaker 1: to do a poor job of introducing live golf, because
Speaker 1: you know, live is sort of like golf fandom junior
Speaker 1: level honors course, whereas JT and Speith is golf fandom
Speaker 1: one oh one, right, and this series was trying to
Speaker 1: do golf fandom one oh one. The choice was to
Speaker 1: do these character focused episodes. What did you make of
Speaker 1: that choice overall, just even beyond the live stuff, the
Speaker 1: choice to go with characters rather than telling a narrative
Speaker 1: of the season or a narrative of the tournaments being played.
Speaker 1: Do you think it was a good choice to go
Speaker 1: with characters in this way.
Speaker 2: I think it's hard. I think, you know, as someone
Speaker 2: who binged all eight episodes over the course of a
Speaker 2: couple of days, it did get a bit monotonous. The
Speaker 2: fact that it was all character studies, like it felt
Speaker 2: like there was a bit of a banngo card of like,
Speaker 2: oh okay, we followed them to their house, here's that
Speaker 2: scene doing something relatable. Now they're at this tournament and
Speaker 2: they're not doing so well, and they're questioning, you know,
Speaker 2: X piece of their game or X thing that's going
Speaker 2: on in their lives, and then you know, at the
Speaker 2: end they kind of find some redemption or they don't,
Speaker 2: and that is what it is. And so that was
Speaker 2: a bit difficult. I will say, I think this is
Speaker 2: something that Drive to Survive did a lot at the
Speaker 2: beginning too. Or they are kind of trying to introduce
Speaker 2: the audience to the people and to get you familiar
Speaker 2: with them and figure out who you like, who you
Speaker 2: don't like, who is going to be someone that you
Speaker 2: want to consistently follow. And I feel like now Drive
Speaker 2: to Survive is just starting to get into more of
Speaker 2: the issue stuff, Like you know, in this forthcoming season,
Speaker 2: they're going to address some of the car purposing that
Speaker 2: happened last year, some of the cost cap stuff, some
Speaker 2: of the more intricate things that they I don't think
Speaker 2: would have to with a ten foot pole in the
Speaker 2: first season or two. So I'm trying to be like
Speaker 2: a bit charitable with my criticisms because I'm hoping that
Speaker 2: maybe Full Swing is trying to build up to that
Speaker 2: and kind of lay the foundation and give viewers something
Speaker 2: to build upon so that when they do, you know,
Speaker 2: get to more tournaments specifically, and more you know, wider
Speaker 2: scale events in the game, that they're able to do
Speaker 2: that a little bit better. But yeah, it was definitely
Speaker 2: weird all the flashbacks to all of the different tournaments,
Speaker 2: and it was jarring for me at times too. I
Speaker 2: was like, why are we doing this again?
Speaker 1: My feeling was that in Drive to Survive, characters would
Speaker 1: come back for multiple episodes, right they You know, Daniel
Speaker 1: Ricardo wasn't just in the first episode and then kind
Speaker 1: of disappeared. He was there sort of a consistent presence
Speaker 1: more or less throughout the season, as I recall, and
Speaker 1: I haven't watched it recently, so if that's not the case,
Speaker 1: then my bad. But you know, one thing that sort
Speaker 1: of happens in this series is that we meet Justin
Speaker 1: Thomas and Jordan's the first episode. We meet Brooks Kopka
Speaker 1: and Scotti Scheffler in the second episode, and we more
Speaker 1: or less don't hear from them for the rest of
Speaker 1: the series, and so we don't get a sense for
Speaker 1: really what the narrative of their season was unless we
Speaker 1: look really closely at the last episode and realize, oh,
Speaker 1: they're Scotty Scheffler. I recognize him, and so yeah, there's
Speaker 1: they did make a choice there, and it's an understandable choice.
Speaker 1: It's also understandable because there's really no narrative to a
Speaker 1: golf season. I mean, that's maybe the real underlying problem here.
Speaker 1: There is a narrative to an F one season. There's
Speaker 1: not a coherent story often in a PGA Tour season,
Speaker 1: and that's part of what these designated slash elevated events
Speaker 1: are trying to rectify going forward. I suppose. So you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you like obviously you and I
Speaker 1: are pretty deep in the weeds on this stuff. We're
Speaker 1: not necessarily the only intended audience for this series. Did
Speaker 1: you get a sense or did you ever think about
Speaker 1: whether this would be appealing to a non golf fan.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I struggle a little bit, I
Speaker 2: think with the middle, middle part of this season. Once
Speaker 2: you get kind of through the Justin Thomas, Jordan Spieth,
Speaker 2: Brooks Kopka episodes and those are names that household people
Speaker 2: may know, it does get a little bit difficult in
Speaker 2: the middle part. You know, with Ian Poulter, Joel Damon,
Speaker 2: Matt fitzpastwork, Dustin Johnson, there's not a whole like Joel
Speaker 2: Damon is great and has a lot of great character,
Speaker 2: and you know, if people stick around for that episode,
Speaker 2: they will fall in love with him. But it is difficult.
Speaker 2: You're not getting a whole lot of like incredibly dynamic
Speaker 2: personality in there or or you know, success on the
Speaker 2: golf course, and I could see that being kind of
Speaker 2: a point where, you know, without sort of a through
Speaker 2: line of a narrative arc of the full PGA Tour season,
Speaker 2: where that could lose people a little bit. I also
Speaker 2: think that it's a little more challenging with the PGA
Speaker 2: Tour portrayal overall because there are so many more golfers
Speaker 2: out there that you're going to see leader boards on
Speaker 2: there where there are you know, the other ten people
Speaker 2: on there, you may not know their name against the
Speaker 2: person that you're following, And I think that's a little
Speaker 2: bit difficult too if you're a casual fan, being like,
Speaker 2: so are these other people on the leaderboard? Good? Is
Speaker 2: this person just doing well? Like what is happening there?
Speaker 2: Where you know, like we talked about earlier, that's the
Speaker 2: thing we're drive to survive is able to succeed a
Speaker 2: little bit more because you know everyone on the grid.
Speaker 2: So I think just like the sheer number of golfers
Speaker 2: is a little bit difficult, and you know, maybe some
Speaker 2: of the rules and stuff that they do their best
Speaker 2: at explaining all of that, but I could see some
Speaker 2: some sticking points for the casual of you or for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the middle of this season that you're talking
Speaker 1: about is sort of the point when you realize that
Speaker 1: these episodes are not building on each.
Speaker 2: Other, right right, Yes, you know, you're all their own
Speaker 2: standalone episode exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you get to episode four, four and five
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, this is sort of the structure
Speaker 1: of the series, is it. We're not going to be
Speaker 1: linking together these episodes into a big through line, And
Speaker 1: that can lose people, for sure, unless they're just really
Speaker 1: interested in being introduced to new characters in golf and
Speaker 1: trust the Netflix crew that they're going to show them
Speaker 1: something interesting about a brand new player that they haven't
Speaker 1: been introduced to yet. And I think that that's probably
Speaker 1: going to be a big ask for non golf fans. Now,
Speaker 1: clearly they made the calls they did because they were
Speaker 1: focusing on characters, not on the live story. The live
Speaker 1: story over the course of the season makes no sense.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that anybody a non fan getting
Speaker 1: into it is going to understand the stakes of the
Speaker 1: live story at all. Nothing about it is really ordered
Speaker 1: in a way that I can follow. In this series,
Speaker 1: I feel like, I wonder if you reacted the same
Speaker 1: way to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they do a lot of alluding to
Speaker 2: live things without I feel like, fully flushing some of
Speaker 2: it out. Like you know, some of the talking head
Speaker 2: folks that they had were say things like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: Live is trying to change the face of golf and
Speaker 2: this could have huge steaks for the PGA tour, and
Speaker 2: and they don't outside of you know, them trying to
Speaker 2: get people to jump to the live too, or they
Speaker 2: don't fully address what the you know, what the stakes
Speaker 2: are from a wider perspective. You know, they get into
Speaker 2: some of the PGA too or like banning, these people
Speaker 2: don't really explain why that is. There's there's not like
Speaker 2: a whole lot of delving into the causes for the tension,
Speaker 2: and like you said. The timeline of things, especially with
Speaker 2: the Cam Smith thing like that, was so dramatic and
Speaker 2: ended up being a storyline, you know, kind of throughout Sunday,
Speaker 2: which was super weird. The Sunday of a major. You're
Speaker 2: talking about this guy and you're watching him go out
Speaker 2: there and be incredible and vanquish this other guy who
Speaker 2: is also incredible, and at the end of it, it
Speaker 2: was sort of like, I don't even very conflicting emotions,
Speaker 2: like I don't know how to feel about this if
Speaker 2: he's going to turn around and kind of jump over
Speaker 2: to live And that wasn't you know, outside of that
Speaker 2: sort of contentious press conference answer that he gave about
Speaker 2: it wasn't super interrogated either. So yeah, the timeline of
Speaker 2: it was definitely weird. The first live tournament, I don't
Speaker 2: think they showed until maybe we got to the Dustin
Speaker 2: Johnson episode, which was like five episodes in. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: all of that was very interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in addition to that, I don't think we really
Speaker 1: learn in the series what the PGA Tour is Like.
Speaker 1: We spend we spend so much time at the majors,
Speaker 1: We go right to the to the PGA Championship, and
Speaker 1: the Masters in the first two episodes, and there's no
Speaker 1: real time spent establishing what the PGA Tour is. And
Speaker 1: so if I'm somebody who doesn't know anything about this,
Speaker 1: live comes in and people are saying that it threatens
Speaker 1: the existence of the PGA Tour, I'm like, well, what's
Speaker 1: the PGA tour?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Why does it matter?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 1: Why is that important that the PGA Tour is being threatened?
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure that we really got that in
Speaker 1: this series. And I don't want to be unkind here.
Speaker 1: This is a episodes and they made the choice to
Speaker 1: focus on character portraits, but these are the kinds of
Speaker 1: things that get sort of left out. I wonder if you,
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like Full Swing Season two is
Speaker 1: going to happen. I actually don't know a lot of
Speaker 1: specifics about this, but you know, if you were to
Speaker 1: have a wish list for what they would do in
Speaker 1: the in the second season of the series, what are
Speaker 1: some of the things that you would want them to
Speaker 1: address or you know, just do in season two of
Speaker 1: Full Swing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, number one on my wish list would be
Speaker 2: that they get Tiger, of course, but you know, closely
Speaker 2: following that, I hope that they are able to delve
Speaker 2: into kind of the changing structure of the tour right
Speaker 2: now with you know, the elevated events and how that
Speaker 2: affects the star players, how that affects the people who
Speaker 2: are not so high up in the in the tour rankings.
Speaker 2: I also hope that, you know, with those elevated events,
Speaker 2: we're able to get maybe a little bit more of
Speaker 2: a consistent storyline across the season. If if you're getting
Speaker 2: people together more often, they're playing together more often, you
Speaker 2: can kind of compare their results a little more one
Speaker 2: to one than you're currently able to do. Something like
Speaker 2: that would be great. But yeah, just just generally like
Speaker 2: more of a mix of sort of the holistic storyline
Speaker 2: and like you said, kind of calling people back with
Speaker 2: the one off you know, here's this person, here's why
Speaker 2: they're interesting kind of standalones.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I agree, and and yeah, and I
Speaker 1: hope they get a chance to do it again. Like
Speaker 1: I think that this, you know, this first season missed
Speaker 1: for me in a lot of ways, but I see
Speaker 1: the potential there. I think there's a talented crew behind it,
Speaker 1: and so hopeful that they keep to they keep at
Speaker 1: it and are allowed to keep making it because there's
Speaker 1: there's obviously some potential in it. All right, So Megan,
Speaker 1: where can people find you on Twitter? And and where
Speaker 1: what what sort of audio venues are you going to
Speaker 1: be participating in this year?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you can always find me and all my
Speaker 2: colleagues at the Ringer dot com. You can find me
Speaker 2: on Twitter at meg Schuster. You can also find me
Speaker 2: currently on the Ringer F one show. I'm hosting that
Speaker 2: for the next couple of months. Well, the wonderful Kevin
Speaker 2: Clark is out on paternity leave.
Speaker 1: Kevin congratulation.
Speaker 2: Shout out to Kevin. Yes, many congratulations, and hopefully I'll
Speaker 2: be on the show a bit, you know, throughout the
Speaker 2: F one season after Kevin returned to Yeah, those are
Speaker 2: kind of my big things right now.
Speaker 1: Cool, all right, thank you so much, thank you. This
Speaker 1: episode of the Frida Egg podcast was edited by Matt Rusius.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Matt. To support the Frida Egg, there are
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