Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and I heart
Speaker 1: radio podcast. Welcome to the most dramatic podcast ever. I
Speaker 1: am Chris Harrison, joined once again by Lauren Ziema from
Speaker 1: her home office in Austin, Texas, joining me on the
Speaker 1: show today. Dancing with the Stars celeb dancing magnet Cheryl
Speaker 1: Burke has stepped away from the show, obviously, we know that,
Speaker 1: but there is so much more to talk to Cheryl about.
Speaker 1: I've known her for so many years, and there's so
Speaker 1: much more to talk about than dancing, and I look
Speaker 1: forward to doing that. We're gonna do it just a
Speaker 1: little bit. But first, Elsie, we gotta put I don't
Speaker 1: think we're gonna put a pin in it, because this
Speaker 1: thing's going to continue on. But the vander Pump rule
Speaker 1: scandal has since we talked about it just a couple
Speaker 1: of days ago, has taken several more big key steps.
Speaker 1: It has gotten physical, it has gotten litigious. Well, what
Speaker 1: you're referring to is, yes, that Raquel Rachel filed a
Speaker 1: restraining order against a cast member against Shena, alleging that
Speaker 1: Shena punched her or somehow gave her a black eye.
Speaker 1: And what that is apparently from or at least whatever
Speaker 1: the incident was, was that in that moment. That was
Speaker 1: the moment Shena found out they were together, the two
Speaker 1: of them after taping Watch what Happens Live in New
Speaker 1: York where they're promoting the show, and Raquel, according to
Speaker 1: all the different accounts and reports, goes to take a
Speaker 1: phone call. The phone calls from Arianna. Arianna's calling her
Speaker 1: saying what you know, something like, what the hell is
Speaker 1: this video that I found? Shena comes outside to check
Speaker 1: on Raquel, and what alarms me the most about this
Speaker 1: is that apparently Raquel sort of casually said to Shena, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm on the phone with Arianna about because I've been
Speaker 1: having an affair with Tom. And that's when Shena, who
Speaker 1: allegedly who knows some kind of incident happened according to Riquel,
Speaker 1: So who knows? I got to tell you. Look, I
Speaker 1: don't condone physical violence ever, but I don't think Raquel.
Speaker 1: I don't think Raquel should have filed the restraining order.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a real It's completely my opinion,
Speaker 1: but I don't think there's a real threat of any
Speaker 1: future harm to her, And I think it makes her
Speaker 1: look bad. I mean, I don't disagree. I found it
Speaker 1: interesting when Raquel released her statement after she had been
Speaker 1: on Watch What Happens Live, and she said, beyond my
Speaker 1: own actions, I have been physically assaulted, lost friendships, received
Speaker 1: death threats and hate emails. Most of that. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I understand, but I was like, wait, physically assaulted. That's
Speaker 1: not something you just slip in a big statement like that.
Speaker 1: So I was interested if Moore was going to come
Speaker 1: out about it. And obviously now it has that she
Speaker 1: was shoved against a wall, suffered a head injury, and
Speaker 1: then was punched, and you can see because she filed
Speaker 1: a picture of herself with the court filing. For some
Speaker 1: people are like, it's faked, it's dramatic. Who knows, I'm
Speaker 1: just playing the Devil's advocate here again. I'm not condoned
Speaker 1: physical violence. It's interesting to me, though, that you, because
Speaker 1: I think I'm I am so much more entrenched in
Speaker 1: it that you than you that like you think that
Speaker 1: that's kind of an interesting part of it, because it's
Speaker 1: all so much has happened that I'm like the physical violence,
Speaker 1: I'm not. Well, that takes it to another level. You
Speaker 1: know it's not on the show. This was something that
Speaker 1: really did happen, And I agree. Did she need to
Speaker 1: file a restraining order? She'd already pulled herself away and left.
Speaker 1: I think unfortunately, filing the restraining order makes her look
Speaker 1: like petty, like mixed up, like it's just gonna make
Speaker 1: everybody hate her more at this point. Well, and I guess,
Speaker 1: allegedly is it Shanaina said or has stated that she
Speaker 1: doesn't regret it and if she hurts my friend again,
Speaker 1: I'll do it again. Um that that was one. That's
Speaker 1: what she said in her filing. That's why Raquel filed,
Speaker 1: is that that was the kind of common sentiment out there.
Speaker 1: And so I just don't believe it. I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know that what's she going to do, like show
Speaker 1: up to her house and beat her up. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you my opinion. I don't think. To me, basically,
Speaker 1: here's what's happens. Since we've all left off everybody, I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe everyone is now following everything too up to the minute,
Speaker 1: like like I am. But since we lasted this episode
Speaker 1: on Tuesday, Arianna, I mean, Tom released a statement, a
Speaker 1: second statement where he actually addresses Arianna, though he addressed
Speaker 1: himself much more. Rackel has released a statement which I
Speaker 1: thought was a well written statement for what it is.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously she had a PR team helping her
Speaker 1: with it. I've read from Raquel's statement. It made me
Speaker 1: think she's distanced herself from Tom. It made me think
Speaker 1: she's she's second guessed because all the reports were saying
Speaker 1: they're in love and they're going to try to be together,
Speaker 1: and there was a report they'd kissed in a scene
Speaker 1: on camera. But to me, it made it sound like
Speaker 1: she's taken a pause there. Well, and Lisavaner Pump was
Speaker 1: on with Ady Cohen the other night and she did
Speaker 1: say they have you taped some scenes and they were together,
Speaker 1: and so maybe in the moment, because she hadn't stepped away,
Speaker 1: maybe they did, maybe they kissed and they were going
Speaker 1: to play this as you know, Tom and Raquel were
Speaker 1: moving on. But now that she's pulled herself away, hopefully
Speaker 1: she will come to her senses and hopefully maybe she
Speaker 1: has changed her mind. Seem right to me, that's the
Speaker 1: smart thing there is, Raquel, And I'm not like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I've changed my mind on all this A
Speaker 1: lot I've been going back and forth a lot. I'm
Speaker 1: exhausted and stressed out by it all because I'm so
Speaker 1: lost on the why still, like as I find out,
Speaker 1: as more and more comes out about it, and as
Speaker 1: I actually start to realize because I didn't watch last
Speaker 1: season of vander Pump Rules, I think I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: doing a little more research and realizing that Raquel and
Speaker 1: Arianna weren't just friends, they were very close friends. And
Speaker 1: I can't find the why here. I can't find what
Speaker 1: was Tom and Raquel's plan? What were they going to do? Well?
Speaker 1: That brings me up because I was going to ask
Speaker 1: you the question. This Lisa vander Pump theory, this was
Speaker 1: her theory that she talked about on the show, is
Speaker 1: that Tom and Rickell, We're gonna wait until after this
Speaker 1: reunion that, yeah, that was gonna be the only thing.
Speaker 1: I can think, get to the reunion, break up, and
Speaker 1: then they had months to kind of let everything, Arianna breakup. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he and Arianna would break up, He and Riquel could
Speaker 1: be together, announce it, get past that reunion, and then
Speaker 1: they have a few months before they start taping again.
Speaker 1: Things calm down. They come back on the next season
Speaker 1: and Tom and Rickell are now a thing, and Arianna
Speaker 1: they have broken up. So that was Lisa Vanderpump's theory
Speaker 1: that actually that was my that was what I also
Speaker 1: thought that could be the only maybe plan they had,
Speaker 1: and that's why I guess that's why they were keeping it.
Speaker 1: I don't know why though they'd keep it secret through
Speaker 1: this season, like just break up sooner and like break
Speaker 1: up before this season started filming. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: also can't I can't get it. I think I'm more so,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm lost on the why of why Raquel
Speaker 1: would be getting would be entrenching herself even closer with Arianna,
Speaker 1: would be I don't know, you had everybody loves guilt.
Speaker 1: Maybe you know, she felt so guilty about what she
Speaker 1: was doing behind her back that like I'm just going
Speaker 1: to try and overly lover. I don't know. It's a weird,
Speaker 1: twisted thing to say, but I don't know. It's a
Speaker 1: you're right, the putting the why on this, like maybe
Speaker 1: Tom was telling her things about Arianna that you know,
Speaker 1: maybe Tom's painting Ariana as like because he keeps talking
Speaker 1: about her mental health, Maybe he was painting her as
Speaker 1: unstable in all that, and so Riquel was thinking, Oh,
Speaker 1: we really I'm in love with him and we really
Speaker 1: can't tell her yet, and I've got to be there
Speaker 1: for as a friend. I don't know. I think also
Speaker 1: at this point, this is my opinion, I think Tom's
Speaker 1: a narcissist from everything I've seen, from what we've seen
Speaker 1: of him over the years, I think Tom's a narcissist.
Speaker 1: I think he's incredibly immature. I won't be surprised if
Speaker 1: more cheating comes out, that he cheated with more than
Speaker 1: Roquel and Arianna. Um. I just think he thinks he's
Speaker 1: smarter than everyone, and he thought he could get away
Speaker 1: with this. Raquel. I can't. I still don't know what
Speaker 1: Raquel is. I don't like why. It's so painful now
Speaker 1: to watch I just watch this week's episode and to
Speaker 1: watch or hang out with Arianna. It's so painful. Everything
Speaker 1: is so cringe now. Everything they do is so cringe.
Speaker 1: Do you think they're going to go back and re
Speaker 1: edit episodes now, the episodes they had in the can
Speaker 1: as as a producer, Yeah, what what you would do
Speaker 1: is you would go back and look at your stock footage,
Speaker 1: the stuff that probably got left on the cutting room floor,
Speaker 1: and you would bring that relationship in those scenes into
Speaker 1: more prominence. You would definitely lay into that. What we
Speaker 1: would do often is, you know, on any show, on
Speaker 1: any reality show, if you're trying to beat a deadline,
Speaker 1: you start pre editing pretty early on your basic storylines.
Speaker 1: But if you see something resonating with your audience, if
Speaker 1: you see something that really pops in the ratings, clearly
Speaker 1: you're going to go now and heavily edit yet it.
Speaker 1: You will see much more of Ariana, Raquel and Tom.
Speaker 1: Now here's another question. A lot of people think that
Speaker 1: that Raquel is going to try to avoid the reunion.
Speaker 1: The reunion tapes in two weeks. They had not taped
Speaker 1: the reunion yet. I think she should go to the
Speaker 1: reunion too. Why, I just I think she should own it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to face it. Yeah, Yeah. If she comes
Speaker 1: in and doesn't play the victim and doesn't and look,
Speaker 1: she's going to take a beating. So you're going to
Speaker 1: You're going to mentally have to prepare yourself, Raquel, for
Speaker 1: what's going to come. Take it. Own it. Just try
Speaker 1: and diffuse it by owning everything you did. When I
Speaker 1: did reunion shows, The worst thing people would do is
Speaker 1: they would come back and they wouldn't own who they were.
Speaker 1: It was just so difficult for somebody to admit they
Speaker 1: were wrong and to take that stance, and so they
Speaker 1: would fight it and it just made it worse, or
Speaker 1: pouring gasoline on a fire. So I think she could
Speaker 1: come out of this not unscathed, but I think she
Speaker 1: could come out of its successful and maybe heal some
Speaker 1: of these scars. Tom, I don't think so. I think
Speaker 1: he's a dead man walking well. I mean you look
Speaker 1: at his statement too, and the things that he said,
Speaker 1: like like something like I wish things had happened in
Speaker 1: a different order, Tom, the only person controlling the order
Speaker 1: that all this happened in was you. You were the person.
Speaker 1: So there's no wishing it had happened in a different order.
Speaker 1: It happened this way because you didn't known up to it.
Speaker 1: I think he's defensive. I mean, there are reports that
Speaker 1: he didn't as we said, like filming the scenes because
Speaker 1: he was painted in a negative light. That is a
Speaker 1: trade of narcissism. They've got to be the good person,
Speaker 1: the good guy, and I think he and it's on
Speaker 1: everybody else. If you're not, and I think he will
Speaker 1: come to that reunion very defensive, and it will only
Speaker 1: be better for Raquel. I mean, I'm just strategizing here.
Speaker 1: I hope it's genuine, but I think it would only
Speaker 1: be better for her to come to the reunion to
Speaker 1: not be defensive, to own it completely, to fall on
Speaker 1: her knees and apologize, and that to you know, you
Speaker 1: want to talk about that. I mean, we've talked about
Speaker 1: this before, like when people cheat, the level of guilt
Speaker 1: they have matters, right. And according to UM, I listened
Speaker 1: to some of Kristen Dody, who's a former cast member
Speaker 1: who's still friends with Everybody's podcast, and she said she
Speaker 1: was there when Tom was with Arianna after all this.
Speaker 1: She said he walked in and they're all there, and
Speaker 1: he goes, oh, I know everybody hates me. I'm the
Speaker 1: bad guy, and that he wasn't apologetic to Arianna, that
Speaker 1: he was just kind of gaslighting her, And I'm like, God,
Speaker 1: that just that sounds like narcissism to me. Or you
Speaker 1: don't want everybody to think you're the bad guy. You're
Speaker 1: not grasping the gravity of it. You should be groveling, apologizing.
Speaker 1: I am so sorry I did this to you if
Speaker 1: you really loved this person. So I don't think Tom
Speaker 1: really loved Arianna. Not in the end here anyway, I
Speaker 1: don't know if he's capable of healthy life. I was
Speaker 1: just about to say the same thing. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's capable of it. I think he sounds like was
Speaker 1: he forty one? Forty one year old? Who like? You
Speaker 1: are who you are? I'm in a rock band in La.
Speaker 1: I'm like, come on, dude, Like we can all evolve
Speaker 1: in change, but I think who you are, you are
Speaker 1: who you are at forty. I guess that's why I
Speaker 1: brought up Raquel's age and got again. I am not
Speaker 1: justifying what she did at I mean, what she did
Speaker 1: was horrible. No, she's not a child, and what she
Speaker 1: did to her friend was horrible. The but I just
Speaker 1: hope I think she maybe still has time to look
Speaker 1: back and regret all this, if she can mentally get
Speaker 1: herself to the place she needs to be, because also, like, wow,
Speaker 1: what a choice to I don't know what she was thinking,
Speaker 1: or if she was thinking, because doing this meant she
Speaker 1: was going to lose this group of incredible women she
Speaker 1: has she had as her best friends. Katie and and well,
Speaker 1: I mean, she wasn't great friends with Katie, but she
Speaker 1: was going to lose this group Shena and Arianna and
Speaker 1: Katie and Lala, and she was growing those relationships. And
Speaker 1: no matter what when this Tom thing came out, like
Speaker 1: you were going to lose that group of women, and
Speaker 1: a great group of women in your life is more
Speaker 1: important than almost anything A bad narcissistic want to be
Speaker 1: rock star. I think that's worth throwing your life away for.
Speaker 1: I know. Look is her statement was her statement about
Speaker 1: how she's like addicted that she mentioned things like she's
Speaker 1: addicted to love and she she gets fulfillment from that.
Speaker 1: Was that written with the help of a PR team, Yes,
Speaker 1: But I don't think it was all wrong. It still
Speaker 1: felt like there was some self awareness. I thought there
Speaker 1: was a lot of good self awareness, and I thought,
Speaker 1: I rate, Okay, I'm gonna challenge you. I don't know
Speaker 1: if she has the self awareness yet. I think the
Speaker 1: PR team's helping her, is telling her what to write. Maybe,
Speaker 1: But I mean I think I think whoever wrote that
Speaker 1: statement and had had some accuracy in their assessment of Raquel.
Speaker 1: Look at already on this season, she's like made out
Speaker 1: with or or going to be hooking up with like
Speaker 1: four guys from the show. I think she's getting her
Speaker 1: fulfillment and her confidence in all the wrong the attention. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's which is easy to slip into that in this
Speaker 1: reality world. Um, and what she did to her friend
Speaker 1: was awful but more but what Tom did to his
Speaker 1: partner is awful And the worst part is he doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to have any real remorse. Well, I'm all emotional
Speaker 1: about this. Now, this isn't a break, This isn't over. Obviously,
Speaker 1: this scandal will roll on because now we're obviously going
Speaker 1: to watch it play out on Vanderpump Rules. And as
Speaker 1: Lauren just alluded to, you watch each episode now and
Speaker 1: it's cruneworthy because you just will see things that make
Speaker 1: your skin crawl when you see them together. And this
Speaker 1: will all lead us up to that just huge reunion.
Speaker 1: And again, I am so jealous you are to not
Speaker 1: be hosting that show. Andy. If you need help, if
Speaker 1: you get you know, laryngitis, call me. I will be
Speaker 1: there in a heartbeat. So I do want to say,
Speaker 1: you know, Arianna, I can't imagine well, I mean I
Speaker 1: can't imagine, but the pain she's going through right now,
Speaker 1: they're together almost a decade. She finds out he's sleeping
Speaker 1: with her friend. It's been going on, some people now
Speaker 1: speculating it was going on even before last summer. So painful,
Speaker 1: so shocking to the system. But I do want to
Speaker 1: say anybody who's been cheated on, it's like Arianna, I
Speaker 1: promise you this, Things will get better from here. It
Speaker 1: is only bigger and better from here. You push through
Speaker 1: this pain, and you're going to look back and be
Speaker 1: so grateful actually that you were able to get out
Speaker 1: of this when you did, you are going to be
Speaker 1: onto a much better relationship. And when you're in that
Speaker 1: better relationship, you're gonna think, oh gosh, I'm so glad
Speaker 1: I don't have to put up with Tom's anymore. I
Speaker 1: think it's it's I'm glad she's for you. This bullshit
Speaker 1: rule number one, This two show pass a lot. You
Speaker 1: are full team Arianna Talk Arianna. If you need another
Speaker 1: PEP talk, call Elsie. She is here for you. There
Speaker 1: is no other team speaking of this team. Thank you, Elsie.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you jumping in and putting a pin in this,
Speaker 1: but we will continue to follow it and We're going
Speaker 1: to take a quick break. We come back Dancing with
Speaker 1: the Stars. Cheryl Burke is going to join me. We
Speaker 1: have a lot to talk about. Welcome back to the
Speaker 1: most dramatic podcast ever. I'm Chris Harrison. She danced her
Speaker 1: way into our hearts for over seventeen years on Dancing
Speaker 1: with the Stars. But Cheryl Burke is so much more
Speaker 1: than just a star from that long running show on ABC.
Speaker 1: And Cheryl joins me. Now, first of all, it's so
Speaker 1: good to see you again. It has been way too long,
Speaker 1: my friend. I know, I mean, how many years has
Speaker 1: it been? Well, actually I had to actually do research.
Speaker 1: It was half ass internet research where I went back.
Speaker 1: I'm like, when did dancing starts? Because I remember I
Speaker 1: remember vividly being in New York. We were shooting Bachelor Bacherette,
Speaker 1: and I remember one of the executives saying there's going
Speaker 1: to be the show where celebrities dance, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? But that was like two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, right, Yeah, so I started season two,
Speaker 1: so that was back in two thousand and six. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so two thousand and six, so a good seventeen year. Now,
Speaker 1: because me and you did Uh, we didn't Miss USA
Speaker 1: together or something. Yeah, America, Miss America America. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: were a judge on Miss America as well. Out there
Speaker 1: in Vegas, our pasitive crossed many times. That is that's
Speaker 1: why we were in Vegas, and that's why we went
Speaker 1: out that night and danced our butts off. And that's
Speaker 1: what that was when I was drinking. And we will
Speaker 1: get to all that as well. Hey, So Laura and
Speaker 1: I were just talking about this Vanderpump rules of fair
Speaker 1: in this scandal? Have you kept up with that? Do
Speaker 1: you watch it at all? Do you know about it? Honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't until I had a conversation with one of
Speaker 1: your producers last night, and then I listened to your
Speaker 1: last episode, and so now I'm caught up. It's pretty bonkers. Yeah, actually,
Speaker 1: now that I actually know, maybe the gist of it,
Speaker 1: I mean, is it though? Yeah, I guess, I guess
Speaker 1: you're right. It's not that bonkers. Is just normal life.
Speaker 1: And when you put normal life on TV, it seems
Speaker 1: crazy because and that's what I really I didn't want
Speaker 1: to talk to you about Vanderpump. I want to talk
Speaker 1: to you about our lives in your life, because you
Speaker 1: and I have both been through something very similar, and
Speaker 1: that is public relationships, public breakups, public divorces, public everything.
Speaker 1: And you know from this Vanderpump thing, you know, an
Speaker 1: affair is not the craziest thing. Affairs happened all the time,
Speaker 1: but when it's public, it's very difficult. And you went
Speaker 1: through this, yeah, but you're you know, yes and not.
Speaker 1: But but we sign up for it in a way.
Speaker 1: I mean for me at least, being on Dancing with
Speaker 1: This or was still weird. Still hard to say, very
Speaker 1: hard because it's only been a few months really, but yes,
Speaker 1: when I was on Dancing with the Stars, it is
Speaker 1: not necessarily I don't like think that's a reality show
Speaker 1: like Vanderpump for example, because it's more of like the
Speaker 1: art form, right, Like my job is to up as
Speaker 1: a teacher, is just to get this person or celebrity
Speaker 1: how to dance, right. So it's like they're we don't
Speaker 1: they're not looking for that type of stuff. But yes,
Speaker 1: with the tension and being on primetime television for so
Speaker 1: many years, it's bound to happen for sure. Well, especially
Speaker 1: you know someone like you who was on so long,
Speaker 1: several of you, there was like a small group of you,
Speaker 1: I would say that became celebrities, and you were bigger
Speaker 1: than the celebrities on Dancing with the Stars, so that
Speaker 1: I don't know where you draw that line or if
Speaker 1: it's case by case of Okay, how much do I
Speaker 1: deserve to know about Cheryl Burke? Well, I mean I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean as a as a viewer, you mean, yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: I just mean, you know you're on this show, and
Speaker 1: you're right, it's it's not a docu reality follow series.
Speaker 1: It was a dancing show. Yet you know, you you
Speaker 1: became public fodder and consumption and people wanted to know
Speaker 1: and obviously one begets the other, and that means we
Speaker 1: love you and we wanted to know, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: if nobody cared about you, then no one would care
Speaker 1: about your relationship either, So that popularity came with a
Speaker 1: price for you. Yeah, I mean it all started like
Speaker 1: for me, I think you know, I never signed up
Speaker 1: to be famous. I guess it was the case for
Speaker 1: me back in two thousand and six and still is.
Speaker 1: Like I came here purely for the art form of dance,
Speaker 1: and I just happened to be at the right place
Speaker 1: at the right time, and in the right situation, right,
Speaker 1: So I didn't come here to like I didn't even
Speaker 1: ask to audition, like they auditioned me. And I didn't
Speaker 1: even know if I could even do it. To be
Speaker 1: quite honest, I was like twenty twenty one. I just
Speaker 1: had twined professional, didn't know if I could teach anyway.
Speaker 1: And then I danced with Drew Lache And this was
Speaker 1: at the height of Nick Lache and Jessica Simpson's divorce,
Speaker 1: and so I again just fell into this and I
Speaker 1: never I mean, I had so much anxiety. I think
Speaker 1: that's when my anxiety really and that's really Yeah, the
Speaker 1: booze helped during that time, supposedly, but probably not. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then game addiction and trying to cover up the Vanderpute
Speaker 1: rules thing though was interesting because of the affair and
Speaker 1: how public and how tawdry it was. Have you ever
Speaker 1: been cheated on? Absolutely? Yeah, I said, you know, Lauren,
Speaker 1: and I said on our podcast, if it's not one
Speaker 1: hundred percent, it's ninety nine, I mean, or you're just
Speaker 1: completely not wanting to know, right the great point, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're just completely in denial. But being cheated on is
Speaker 1: something that it is a wound that that cuts you
Speaker 1: deep because it's a different kind of betrayal and this
Speaker 1: involved a friend as well. But um, that takes it
Speaker 1: to another level, doesn't it. I mean, look, I know
Speaker 1: you're kind of not defending her, but yeah, she's young,
Speaker 1: but she ain't that young. You're right, You're right. It's
Speaker 1: not like she's nineteen, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: she's almost thirty years old. So like, look, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, you either have morals and values
Speaker 1: that you follow or you don't, you know, and regardless
Speaker 1: whether you're a narcissist or not, or whatever happened, you
Speaker 1: just have to take accountability over what happened. Because with accountability,
Speaker 1: I find that forgiveness can happen, but not if you
Speaker 1: just continue to not hold yourself accountable or blame. That
Speaker 1: is the hard part. It's like, you know, I think
Speaker 1: with any relationship I was in when there was infidelity involved,
Speaker 1: if that person could have just come to the plate,
Speaker 1: there would have been there could have been a solution,
Speaker 1: you know. And that takes me to your relationship because
Speaker 1: you just went through a very public you just want
Speaker 1: to through a very public Everyone thinks I've only dated
Speaker 1: one person, but nope, there's a bunch of people I've dated,
Speaker 1: not but not like that, you know what I mean. Actually,
Speaker 1: I'm one of those people that know that you have
Speaker 1: dated other people. Thank you, thank you. But you've been married.
Speaker 1: You were married with you know, to Matthew Lawrence and
Speaker 1: got divorced. It was a very public divorce and if
Speaker 1: something you guys kind of kept quiet. But he's now
Speaker 1: gone on his podcast and has been very vocal about
Speaker 1: how the relationship tested him and how quote, I ended
Speaker 1: up getting involved with people that I was trying to
Speaker 1: please and it never fricking works. And no, do you
Speaker 1: agree with him? There was another thing that he said.
Speaker 1: I thought it was very interesting. You can love someone
Speaker 1: to death and you can be in a toxic relationship
Speaker 1: and it can spiral out of control and ruin both
Speaker 1: of your lives. Obviously referring to your relationship, was it
Speaker 1: did you think this was a toxic relationship? Look, I
Speaker 1: mean out of etiquette, Like I like to speak for
Speaker 1: myself only because I am not going to speak for
Speaker 1: other people. But look, again, it goes back to accountability.
Speaker 1: It's like, if that's what it was for him, that's fine,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean it was like that for me
Speaker 1: in any scenario. Now, as far as toxic, absolutely, there
Speaker 1: were moments of it, absolutely, but like the whole pleasing.
Speaker 1: By the way, this is the first time I'm hearing
Speaker 1: these quotes. I haven't googled myself recently. I've decided to
Speaker 1: stop doing that actually, But you know, it's interesting because
Speaker 1: it's all a choice. Life is a choice, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you could either choose to people please, but that has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the other person, you know. I
Speaker 1: think that no matter what, honesty and transparency and accountability
Speaker 1: will always get you further, no matter what. You haven't
Speaker 1: googled yourself. But now that he has this podcast, he's
Speaker 1: been speaking out and well, it's here's the thing. When
Speaker 1: the average Joe or Jane goes through a divorce, goes
Speaker 1: through a breakup, especially when there's no kids involved, you go,
Speaker 1: you go your separate ways. You're not going to hear
Speaker 1: about it. You're not going to see headlines. You know,
Speaker 1: Matthew's continuing to make headlines because he's speaking about it
Speaker 1: on his podcast. And so is that a kind of
Speaker 1: different level of just toughness and just difficulty of already
Speaker 1: handling a situation that's hard emotionally, I mean, which you
Speaker 1: don't know. It doesn't hurt you, hence the not googling
Speaker 1: myself good point and you saying this. Normally I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 1: look he did good. More like I really, look, I
Speaker 1: have a lot on my plate. This has been a
Speaker 1: huge year of transitioning for me, and the biggest break
Speaker 1: up for me was with the show, to be quite honest,
Speaker 1: and that that continues for me to have. I have
Speaker 1: a heavy heart. You know, it's really sad because I
Speaker 1: feel like that marriage was definitely a longer one, yeah,
Speaker 1: and more intimate, and it was because I grew up
Speaker 1: on that show. So look, it is what it is.
Speaker 1: He's going to say what he says, and you know,
Speaker 1: I wish him well, I really do wish him well.
Speaker 1: He's uh, I don't I assume you know he's dating
Speaker 1: TLC sing or Chili. I'm a huge fan, by the way,
Speaker 1: you're a TLC fan? Really? Oh my god. I had
Speaker 1: it on my like six disc spinner at back in
Speaker 1: the nineties. Remember those Absolutely you knew you were rich
Speaker 1: when you had the five disc changer in your car.
Speaker 1: My parents, that's for sure. Yeah exactly. Um so, yeah,
Speaker 1: so's he's dating Chili now and that relationship he's been
Speaker 1: gushing quite a bit about. And he spoke about wanting
Speaker 1: to have kids and and playing you know that that's
Speaker 1: the plan as soon as possible. Is that something you
Speaker 1: guys were never into? Did you ever approach that subject?
Speaker 1: Are you surprised by that? No, I'm not surprised at all.
Speaker 1: Like he comes from a huge family, and I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, especially his mom. Like, there were definitely, you know, conversations,
Speaker 1: but I always had said, you know, as long as
Speaker 1: I have to shove my body in a dance costume,
Speaker 1: me getting or thinking about being pegged out probably isn't
Speaker 1: something I can talk about at the moment. But yes,
Speaker 1: there were discussions of like possibly freezing my eggs. But
Speaker 1: then you know, I also you know, and I'm working
Speaker 1: through it, but I don't plan on suffering from body
Speaker 1: dysmorphia in my whole life. But like, yes, with dance
Speaker 1: in general, yeah, you know that that comes into play.
Speaker 1: And then being outed years ago for being too bad
Speaker 1: for TV, you know, so it's like there's all of
Speaker 1: this trauma and I hope, I really truly hope he
Speaker 1: can actually you know, have a kid with with Chili.
Speaker 1: I think that's amazing because I think he's wanted that.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, so at least you would still go
Speaker 1: to the TLC or reunion concerts. No, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to a concert, but I was still sing along to
Speaker 1: the song no Scrubs. You know what I'm saying. Fair enough,
Speaker 1: that's that you know what we meet in the middle.
Speaker 1: That's fair enough. You know. I didn't want. I don't
Speaker 1: want to get too much into the divorce. But one
Speaker 1: thing I am very happy about. You got custody of Isabella,
Speaker 1: your bulldog. And I make light of something that was
Speaker 1: pretty silly when you guys were actually battling over this.
Speaker 1: This was your dog. That was silly. Yeah, that was silly.
Speaker 1: But the fact that you actually got custody of your dog,
Speaker 1: I was really happy about that. Thank you. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a win win for me. You know, like this dog,
Speaker 1: I feel bad for her. She has just felt it
Speaker 1: all like you know, dogs can actually feel like my energy,
Speaker 1: like in general humans energy. Right, So, um, Isabella has
Speaker 1: been my row. As crazy as that sounds, if you
Speaker 1: would have told me this ten years ago, that a dog,
Speaker 1: not a human being, would have been there for me
Speaker 1: more than an actually even being I would have been like,
Speaker 1: you're crazy. No, yes, it's a hell is actually therapeutic.
Speaker 1: It's called unconditional love, right, well, we all need that.
Speaker 1: And it's also called they don't talk back, right, that's
Speaker 1: maybe that's the definition of unconditional love, as they just
Speaker 1: don't talk back. So you mentioned that you were what
Speaker 1: twenty one, twenty two years old when you started Dancing
Speaker 1: with the Stars. That was your longest relationship and it
Speaker 1: was you know, when you're in the arts, when you're
Speaker 1: doing a show like you and I both did, it
Speaker 1: is personal. It's something that it's a piece of your soul,
Speaker 1: and you did that. You know, from the time you're
Speaker 1: twenty one to the time you were thirty eight years old,
Speaker 1: that is such a impactful time in your life. To
Speaker 1: go from your early twenties to almost forty years old.
Speaker 1: When you look back, like how much have you changed?
Speaker 1: Can you quantify what a different woman you are? First
Speaker 1: of all, you should hear my very first audition tape.
Speaker 1: I don't I didn't know what my favorite color was.
Speaker 1: I had really zero identity whatsoever, coming from the competitive world,
Speaker 1: which is very much like a man's world, and the
Speaker 1: woman follows the man and it's like that in real life,
Speaker 1: unfortunately as well as some times, you know, And so
Speaker 1: I guess I never I was really quiet and shy,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's because of, you know,
Speaker 1: the abuse I suffered from as a child or what
Speaker 1: it was. But regardless, dance was always my way to move.
Speaker 1: Movement in my body was my way to express myself,
Speaker 1: not through words. So when I did this audition, they
Speaker 1: came to Harlem, where I was living at the time,
Speaker 1: and they asked me to spin do a dance move.
Speaker 1: This is when my hair was really sure that yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I only looked good in movement. So I just continued
Speaker 1: to move and I was like, my name is Cheryl Burke,
Speaker 1: and I like, name one thing about you, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: and I'm a tiger on the dance so crazy, And
Speaker 1: my voice was so high. I sounded like a little mouse.
Speaker 1: I had a partial English accent. Don't know why. I
Speaker 1: think because my dance coach was English and coming here.
Speaker 1: Long story short, it has helped. I have to give
Speaker 1: credit to dancing. It's kind of like they throw you
Speaker 1: in the pool of sharks. You gotta do interviews. You
Speaker 1: got to speak for yourself. You got to speak up. Also,
Speaker 1: I had just turned pro, so I didn't have a
Speaker 1: lot of teaching experience under my belt, so it was
Speaker 1: really a huge challenge. But it made me grow up
Speaker 1: as an individual and as an independent person instead of
Speaker 1: living in someone else's shadow quickly. And I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: for the show for that, you know, So you'd look
Speaker 1: back and fondly remember your time, there a lot to
Speaker 1: you totally listen. Of course, there are little things, like
Speaker 1: any relationship, there's always going to be this, but the
Speaker 1: bigger picture that I will never forget and be grateful
Speaker 1: for the show being a part of my life for
Speaker 1: such a long time, Like it really has helped like
Speaker 1: make me the woman I am today, I guess, you know. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean by the way, I said the same thing
Speaker 1: about The Bachelor. You know, I didn't want it to
Speaker 1: end the way it did. But still I can't help
Speaker 1: but be grateful because it was such a part of
Speaker 1: my adult life. And I was a little older when
Speaker 1: I started, but went through about the same time frame
Speaker 1: as you. And so yeah, it's you can't spend that
Speaker 1: much time on something. How do you feel after all
Speaker 1: of that? What was your initial reaction. I guess, like,
Speaker 1: how long did it hurt for? I guess, well, that
Speaker 1: goes There's a lot of layers to that, much like
Speaker 1: your divorce. But it was, you know, in the beginning,
Speaker 1: there was the shock because it was a band aid
Speaker 1: being ripped off. It wasn't something maybe like you did,
Speaker 1: where you thought about this for quite some time and
Speaker 1: you're like, you know what, dancing and this is taking
Speaker 1: a toll on me and my life and it's time
Speaker 1: to step away. While I had thought about that, I
Speaker 1: hadn't put those wheels in motion yet. So for it
Speaker 1: to all happen so quickly in a tumultuous way, it
Speaker 1: was a lot. It was a lot to handle, which
Speaker 1: is why I kind of stepped away from everything and
Speaker 1: didn't do a podcast and didn't do any interviews, did nothing,
Speaker 1: just just got healthy. As you know. How long was
Speaker 1: that process About a year and a half. I mean, away,
Speaker 1: I could have come back sooner, but honestly, I started
Speaker 1: enjoying it. I started really enjoying my life again. And
Speaker 1: have you gotten to that point yet? I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: you said stepping away from dancing was maybe the toughest
Speaker 1: decision of your life. Have you come to terms with it?
Speaker 1: And do you feel good about it? You know, yes,
Speaker 1: it's very empowering, but it's also sad, you know, like
Speaker 1: I can't help. But you know, it doesn't not cross
Speaker 1: my mind that oh maybe I should have just stuck
Speaker 1: it out another five Like physically I could have done it, Chris,
Speaker 1: But mentally, you know, it's like I am on such
Speaker 1: I'm on a path right now, or I am so
Speaker 1: into my mental health and I'm really into sharing my resources.
Speaker 1: Right I'm no professional, but I can share my experiences
Speaker 1: with people, and that to me that I can't explain
Speaker 1: the feeling when I can actually affect somebody else's life
Speaker 1: in a way other than me barking at them telling
Speaker 1: them to do a Shacha lockstep, you know like that.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's so it fills me up. It's
Speaker 1: hard to explain, but you probably understand. And anyone listening
Speaker 1: right now, you know, like any relationship, and it's like
Speaker 1: I just knew that, you know, either it was going
Speaker 1: to be my call or it was gonna be theirs. Right,
Speaker 1: So it's like this was just the time, it was time.
Speaker 1: I'm thirty eight, I've done twenty six seasons. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: else can I What else do I need to prove? Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what else to do other than like
Speaker 1: I've already proved it from the first two seasons if
Speaker 1: you were to look at it like from the material
Speaker 1: side of things. However, you know, it's like it's time
Speaker 1: to move on, Like I want to be able to
Speaker 1: challenge myself. I hate feeling stagnant with whatever I do.
Speaker 1: I hate it that two great points. First of all,
Speaker 1: it's very rare that an athlete and I do consider
Speaker 1: you guys athletes, and you are competing at the highest
Speaker 1: level of what you do, and so to go out
Speaker 1: on top is a hard thing to do because, like
Speaker 1: you said, you absolutely could have milked it, and you
Speaker 1: could have made it through another five years on your popularity,
Speaker 1: But would you have been your best? Would it have
Speaker 1: been the Cheryl Burke we all knew and loved. And
Speaker 1: to have the self awareness to say no and to
Speaker 1: step away, that says a lot about you. It takes
Speaker 1: a lot. Oh. You know, the last time I felt
Speaker 1: like this was moving from Harlem to the Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: So I know that there is a good there is
Speaker 1: you know, the path is greener, but I just have
Speaker 1: to I have to be patient. I'm very impatient. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I definitely need to just like and also, by
Speaker 1: the way, I need to stop defining myself by my
Speaker 1: outside sources, Like I need to stop thinking that my
Speaker 1: job is who Cheryl Burke is or my friends. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm really trying to do that work and
Speaker 1: it's not easy. Well, it's not easy. When you are
Speaker 1: so popular and you're on, you know, a huge hit
Speaker 1: show and you are famous for that, it's easy to
Speaker 1: get wrapped up in that identity that you are Cheryl
Speaker 1: Burke from Dancing with the Stars. Oh my god. People
Speaker 1: still people are like, you made the worst mistake ever.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's why I don't sprowl on freaking
Speaker 1: social media. Yeah, one thing I've I have not heard
Speaker 1: you speak of. And now that you're gone, maybe you
Speaker 1: can be brutally honest about this. Okay. I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Tom bergier on, I love him, I do too. End
Speaker 1: and a wonderful host. How did the dynamic change and
Speaker 1: what was different when they fired Tom and Aaron Andrews. Look,
Speaker 1: this is no dig at Tira, because I think Tyra
Speaker 1: is an amazing woman. But honestly, the heart of the show,
Speaker 1: it was gone. I can't even say it better than that,
Speaker 1: because you know, a lot of people don't know this,
Speaker 1: but Tom would like host mid season parties for us,
Speaker 1: and it was like casting crew, only we would have
Speaker 1: dress rehearsal. He'd come on Sundays during camera blocking and
Speaker 1: though he wasn't probably getting paid for it, like he
Speaker 1: was still wanting to interact with everybody. I call him
Speaker 1: my dance dad, you know, and he was there from
Speaker 1: the beginning and he just made light of everything. And
Speaker 1: it was a smart casting decision on you know, whoever
Speaker 1: was the showrunner or whoever decided to book Tom, because
Speaker 1: Tom made Ballroom not so because it's so serious, right,
Speaker 1: like we take our freaking this is blood, sweat and tears,
Speaker 1: like for what a nasty mirror ball trophy. But with Tom,
Speaker 1: it was like, okay, yeah, we can make light of everything,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like it's actually he's so genuine
Speaker 1: and he's so authentic, and there was a comfort level
Speaker 1: like I don't know if I'm speaking more for the
Speaker 1: older demographic, but like at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: when you see it's like if you were to recast
Speaker 1: the cast of friends like you can't do it. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and to your point, I think what he did brilliantly
Speaker 1: was walk that line. Yes, he threw in the funny
Speaker 1: you know, jabs every now and then, but everything was
Speaker 1: out of love. And he also knew how to lean
Speaker 1: into the emotional moments when there were those, he paid
Speaker 1: he paid attention and he listened and and he's just
Speaker 1: a great host on that level. Altely, it wasn't about him,
Speaker 1: right well, and that's rule number one of hosting. It's
Speaker 1: not about you. You are not the star. And that's
Speaker 1: something that's lost by a lot of host and and
Speaker 1: you know, obviously the ratings changed and you can see
Speaker 1: the numbers changed dramatically after he and Aaron left. We're
Speaker 1: not on maybec anymore right for that, So yeah, you
Speaker 1: can just look at the scoreboard. But I was just
Speaker 1: curious from the inside. I mean that's what I felt
Speaker 1: as a host on a show across the network from him,
Speaker 1: and he and I had a very special relationship for
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons that we always just got along
Speaker 1: really well. We're very different, very highly of you. He's
Speaker 1: fond of you very much. Well, he's and I'm really
Speaker 1: glad to hear that. We from our early days. He
Speaker 1: was one of the first that kind of reached out
Speaker 1: to me when I took over Miss America, which he
Speaker 1: had just hosted something that could have been an awkward
Speaker 1: moment he broke. He broke the ice and immediately was like, hey, man, congratulations,
Speaker 1: I'm happy for you. Let me know if there's anything
Speaker 1: I can do. There was another moment you probably don't
Speaker 1: know about. It was with your former partner Drew Lache.
Speaker 1: Because of a medical thing that in his family, Bergeron
Speaker 1: was maybe not going to make it back to host
Speaker 1: the show for the first time ever. So they called
Speaker 1: me on a Sunday and said, hey, Harrison, can you
Speaker 1: come in. We just need you to be on standby.
Speaker 1: You might be hosting Dancing with the Stars tomorrow night
Speaker 1: if his father died passed away, right he was. It
Speaker 1: was during he was had to do with one of
Speaker 1: his kids or something like that, and he ended up
Speaker 1: making it in. But I went to the table read
Speaker 1: and I was ready to go, and just ever since then,
Speaker 1: we just had this and they asked me to keep
Speaker 1: that quiet and never tell that story while he was
Speaker 1: still going, and so we never spoke of it, but
Speaker 1: he just we always had that kind of mutual respect
Speaker 1: for each other. He also told me about the Emmy's.
Speaker 1: Was it the Emmy's when all the hosts of primetime?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that was hysterical. He actually, he forget
Speaker 1: to tell me, so I just let him tell me again.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, it's so funny that that moment was great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was one year when all the reality show hosts
Speaker 1: hosted the Emmy's and it was he was pretty critically panned.
Speaker 1: He didn't go great. He's still traumatizing. Yeah, but thanks
Speaker 1: for opening up about that. I was just curious what
Speaker 1: the thought was because, again, a little selfish as the host,
Speaker 1: I noticed these things and it was a it was
Speaker 1: a big change at the time, and I think it
Speaker 1: I think if he ever talked about it too, it
Speaker 1: hurt him to have that taken away. Chris. Yes, it's like, look,
Speaker 1: this show is so special, the relationships you make, the
Speaker 1: lifelong friends you make. There's some seasons that are the
Speaker 1: camaraderies a lot better than others. There's also some showrunners
Speaker 1: that are better than others. To be just blunt right
Speaker 1: the end of the day, that is where it's coming
Speaker 1: from right, like if they're there, you have to in
Speaker 1: any business, you have to develop a personal relationship with
Speaker 1: these people or else there you're seeing how cold it
Speaker 1: is at times, and then you're seeing how warm and
Speaker 1: how we love to hang out with each other. It's
Speaker 1: about the environment we work in and a lot of
Speaker 1: that has to do with the people that you know.
Speaker 1: To the executive, it is funny you think though you
Speaker 1: are on the inside and you're there on the daily
Speaker 1: and you're like, how can they not see it? Like
Speaker 1: this seems so obvious to me that this works, This
Speaker 1: doesn't How are we how are we messing this up?
Speaker 1: But they do, and I they look, they want to
Speaker 1: come in, they want to put their fingerprint on it.
Speaker 1: I get it. You know it's and it's ego. It's
Speaker 1: all ego. And then it's selfish, like when when we
Speaker 1: first started this show, we were like no one cared
Speaker 1: if you hung out with producer. We were we were
Speaker 1: like parting in the green room on the floor, like
Speaker 1: smoking cigarettes, like trashing it. And it's like when we
Speaker 1: did the very first Dancing with the Stars tour, it
Speaker 1: was insanity. The popularity of this show right, and how
Speaker 1: we got treated like rock stars, and then it becomes normal,
Speaker 1: the new normal. Yeah, then it becomes a machine, and
Speaker 1: then it becomes numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers that you're forgetting about.
Speaker 1: First of all, what the show was, which was a
Speaker 1: ballroom show. Let's stick, let's just start there. You know,
Speaker 1: like the dancing has changed, but it's about It's about
Speaker 1: the humanity of it though, and you know, it was
Speaker 1: never about the day. So that's the reason why ballroom works.
Speaker 1: It's not a so you think you can dance like,
Speaker 1: we're not gonna be doing hip hop with our partner
Speaker 1: because there's no communication through the body. Ballroom works because
Speaker 1: of the fact that two people have to work together,
Speaker 1: not side by side. Yeah, it was a story. It
Speaker 1: was a relationship. And watching that and speaking of relationships,
Speaker 1: you are single now and this takes me very much. No,
Speaker 1: I'm not dating, Chris, I'm not dating. Well, this takes
Speaker 1: me back to a rumor when you and I were
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas and we talked at length about this
Speaker 1: about you being the bachelorette. Yeah, do you remember that?
Speaker 1: So freaking Lily, I even went into that meeting with
Speaker 1: I forgot to snake Michael. So you did you had
Speaker 1: meetings about being the Bachelorette and talking about Juby Kennell
Speaker 1: talked about it. I'm Jimmy kim Alive. I'll never forget it.
Speaker 1: So that was real, that was legit. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know why why the hell didn't work, especially when during
Speaker 1: my drinking days I would have been great. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: would have been. After the few days I spent with
Speaker 1: you in Vegas. I think maybe I said, that's not
Speaker 1: the best idea for her right now. Yeah, probably not.
Speaker 1: It's probably a blessing in disguise, So thank you, that's
Speaker 1: what really happened. But you are single and you are
Speaker 1: not dating. Well, I'm dating myself, which is a great
Speaker 1: thing for the moment because I don't think I've ever
Speaker 1: actually enjoyed my own company. So this is I am
Speaker 1: not even interested at the moment still, and I know
Speaker 1: that I had a podcast with iHeart about it. No
Speaker 1: wonder it probably didn't work because I'm just genuinely not
Speaker 1: into it at the moment. I'm really not. So you're
Speaker 1: not open to if you bumped into somebody at a
Speaker 1: coffee shop or and they said, hey, yes, but I'm
Speaker 1: not so desperate to get on a dating app like,
Speaker 1: you know, if that happened, so be it. But that
Speaker 1: would mean I'd have to leave this house, right, So
Speaker 1: I don't like leaving this house. But if I knew
Speaker 1: a great fine mister Joe Schmo and this closet unfortunately,
Speaker 1: but if I knew a great guy and I send
Speaker 1: him your way, just saying there's a chance, yeah, I
Speaker 1: might have to do some get it like a background
Speaker 1: check and all that person. Of course, would you get
Speaker 1: married again? Absolutely, I love it, So that's that's in
Speaker 1: the cards. Yeah, I mean kids, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't mind even contemplating like that option of adopting,
Speaker 1: like I've always I never thought that even as a
Speaker 1: little girl, and never was a huge like I want
Speaker 1: twelve kids and coming out of me naturally like I'm
Speaker 1: not really I don't need that, you know. For me,
Speaker 1: a kid is a kid, like whether you're adopted or not,
Speaker 1: Like there's so much love regardless. It seems like you're
Speaker 1: in a really healthy place right now though, if you're
Speaker 1: able to even talk about, Yeah, marriage is a thing,
Speaker 1: and maybe I do want kids down the road and
Speaker 1: I want that life. And now without dancing with the stars,
Speaker 1: you're able to work on that now. Well yeah, but
Speaker 1: I'm also not retired from work like I'm a workaholic,
Speaker 1: as everyone knows. How do you spend your days? What
Speaker 1: are you doing? I am honestly shooting so much social
Speaker 1: media content. Just call me an influencer. Okay forgetting the
Speaker 1: last twenty something seasons of Dancing with the starts, I'm
Speaker 1: starting over from scratch. Then, now you're efficiently Now you
Speaker 1: officially are a Bachelorette contestant. You're just an influencer, right.
Speaker 1: I mean I was gonna say, if there's a Bachelorette
Speaker 1: sober version, I just don't think it would work without
Speaker 1: the alcohol unfortunately. So but you know what show I'm
Speaker 1: really into is Love Is Blind. I think they should
Speaker 1: do a celebrity version. I think that would be fascinating.
Speaker 1: We can make that work. You mentioned your sobriety. How
Speaker 1: long have you been sobered? I know you have. It's
Speaker 1: fallen off the wagon and we've broken it, but you
Speaker 1: are back. How long have you been sober? Now? Almost
Speaker 1: five years? Congratulations? Thank you, that's awesome. I love that
Speaker 1: for you, and I know if I could get through
Speaker 1: this whole like year not taking a sip I feel
Speaker 1: pretty confident in myself. Thank you. I was going to
Speaker 1: ask if that has been a struggle. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: every day, Chris, every day. Yeah, No, it's something so
Speaker 1: many addict will tell you that every single day, Like
Speaker 1: whether it just comes out of you know, nowhere, or
Speaker 1: if it's because of what you're going through. But like,
Speaker 1: this is why it's so vital for me to really
Speaker 1: just date myself, because if I'm not conscious, I could
Speaker 1: be on a date and like you know, depending on
Speaker 1: my mood and someone's offering me and drink. I'm like, yeah, whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, No, I get it, and I mean I've
Speaker 1: I've been intimately surrounded by that in my life. So
Speaker 1: I understand that every day you are making that choice.
Speaker 1: And I'm so proud of you for that because I
Speaker 1: know when you go through tumultuous times, like you said,
Speaker 1: it's easy, it's so easy to slip. Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1: And I do remember, you know, and not to kind
Speaker 1: of bring up an old wound, but as much as
Speaker 1: I loved and adored you and you were such a
Speaker 1: good friend back in the day, I remember being in
Speaker 1: Vegas and those were dark times. It's like you would
Speaker 1: go from zero to a thousand, it's like, oh, here's Cheryl,
Speaker 1: and then it's like, oh, this is the girl I
Speaker 1: don't recognize and it would happen quickly. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: think I also was a functioning drunk, so it was
Speaker 1: like that was That's the scariest, you know, was when
Speaker 1: people when you're not drinking, people are like are you okay?
Speaker 1: Because I'm not as like social or you know, it
Speaker 1: is it's a different type of I guess scary when
Speaker 1: you're an addict. Because I also, if you were to
Speaker 1: look on paper, maybe I'm the most successful of saying
Speaker 1: this when I did Red Table talk, like maybe I
Speaker 1: was the most successful when I was drinking, which is
Speaker 1: my rock bottom, you guys, because like a rock bottom
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean being found in a you know, alley
Speaker 1: way and then being you know, heading to rehab. Like, no,
Speaker 1: this is a rock bottom for me as well, because
Speaker 1: you're like, well, then my lazy brain, which sometimes happens,
Speaker 1: it'll like go in there, my unconscious brain will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what, if you were the most successful, then
Speaker 1: you might as well start drinking again. You pulled it off,
Speaker 1: you can do it again, right, right? Was there ever
Speaker 1: a time that you were drinking, drunk or on anything
Speaker 1: while you were working on Dancing with the Stars. I
Speaker 1: was always um, well, I used Dancing with the Stars
Speaker 1: like a sauna, so it was like I drank hardcore,
Speaker 1: then I would sweat it out. My partners would guess
Speaker 1: what I was drinking the night before, then I would
Speaker 1: do it again. This is the reason why I'm no
Speaker 1: joke ging here aside, right, but like seven days a
Speaker 1: week I was out And this was before Uber. That
Speaker 1: was scary. Yeah. Well, by the grace of God, you
Speaker 1: are here, yes, and you're thriving, and you're in such
Speaker 1: a good place, and I'm just happy to see the
Speaker 1: way you're you're thriving right now and you're growing. You've
Speaker 1: always been amazing person, but I'm glad to see you
Speaker 1: figuring that out now. Thank you and congratulations on this podcast.
Speaker 1: This is amazing. It's been awesome. It's been really fun.
Speaker 1: It has been a great platform to have to kind
Speaker 1: of speak in this way and then to rekind of
Speaker 1: connect with some of my friends and bring some of
Speaker 1: these personal stories out. Like you, It's like it's not
Speaker 1: just Cheryl Burke from dancing. This is a woman I've
Speaker 1: known for quite some time. Our paths of cross and
Speaker 1: intertwine many times totally. And I hope to actually hang
Speaker 1: out behind the camera because I would love to ask
Speaker 1: you some more questions about how you're handling this transition
Speaker 1: of yours. It's really must be really challenging at times,
Speaker 1: you know it has been. And someday, thank you, by
Speaker 1: the way for saying that, And someday I'll be teaching
Speaker 1: a master class on this. Yes, yeah, please, thank you, Cheryl.
Speaker 1: I appreciate the time and the insight, and I will
Speaker 1: talk to you and my friend bye. And that was
Speaker 1: Cheryl Burke, an interesting person that I have watched intimately
Speaker 1: since she began her journey on Dance with the Stars.
Speaker 1: Because our shows were so intertwined, we went to visit
Speaker 1: and be on Dancing Obviously a lot of people from
Speaker 1: The Bachelor Bachette were on there, and so we saw
Speaker 1: them all the time. And then there were ABC events
Speaker 1: and they would always put the Reality people together, and
Speaker 1: so we got to know, you know, Maxim and the
Speaker 1: Huffs and Cheryl, and we spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: with these people, and so you to know the struggles
Speaker 1: that she went through on so many levels and to
Speaker 1: see how she's come out on the other side successfully
Speaker 1: is a miracle but also wonderful. So my thanks to
Speaker 1: Cheryl Burke and my thanks to you for listening once
Speaker 1: again on the Most Dramatic Podcast Ever. And I will
Speaker 1: talk to you next time because we have a lot
Speaker 1: more to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on
Speaker 1: Instagram at the Most Dramatic Pod Ever and make sure
Speaker 1: to write us a review and leave us five stars.
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you next time.