1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: High listeners, it's Emilia. As a special bonus to Crumbs, 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: I'll be interviewing people close to me that were part 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: of the journey, will reflect on life, my search for love, 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: and the impact the show had on them. In this episode, 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: I'll be talking to my best friend, Dana. Dana has 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: been with me throughout my sobriety, my triumphs, my heartbreaks, 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: and everything in between. But there are things even she 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: didn't know about me until she listened to the show, 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 1: things that she helped me process and make peace with. 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: If you haven't heard the show yet, don't wait. Head 11 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: back to the feet and start the journey from step one. 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: We'll be here when you're done. Okay, let's get started. 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: Can you introduce yourself to listeners. Hi, I'm Dana and 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: I'm six and a half your sober. I'm a nurse 15 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: and happy to be your best friend. Let's start with 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: how we it? What do you remember about that? I 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: don't remember exactly how we met, but I remember seeing 18 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 1: you as someone who myself knew knew in sobriety. I 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: looked up to you, and I remember wanting what you had. 20 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: What did I have? So many things for me? I 21 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: mean I had just gotten down to jail. I had 22 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: like thirty two something days sober. I remember we went 23 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: to a conference and I was lost in the crowd. 24 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: You were someone who welcomed me, invited me out to 25 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: go to dinner. And your poise, your grace, and the 26 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: confidence that you had. I didn't have any of those things. 27 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: So in two thousand fifteen, I must have been seven, 28 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: about to turn eight years sober. I remember exactly where 29 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: I met you. I met you at a twelve step meeting. 30 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: I remember you have something about you that reminded me 31 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: so much of my mom. Aside from you having this awesome, 32 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: bubbly personality, I just remember like you walked like my mom, 33 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: You acted like my mom. He had just came out 34 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: of jail. You were a heroin adic My mom was 35 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: a heroin adict. There was just something about you that 36 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: made that was so familiar to me, and I said, Okay, 37 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: this grows my people. She's walked through the same things 38 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: that my mom has. I want to get to know her. 39 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: And I remember, I remember like when we first started 40 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: hanging out, you gave me a ride somewhere because you 41 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: always volunteered to drive. You love driving I'm not sure 42 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: why you have volunteering yourself for driving. And I thought 43 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: you were gonna kill me. You were like the worst 44 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: driver I had ever met. She drives like a mania. 45 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: Actually is gonna kill me. But I really enjoyed your company, 46 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: so I just put up with it. Hey, I've been 47 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: locked up for so long, how do you expect me 48 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: to know how to drive anymore? In your defense, you've 49 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: become such a good driver all these years later, and 50 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: I trust you wholeheartedly with my life. So who did 51 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: you think I was when you met me? Who did 52 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: I think you were? The reason I'm asking is because 53 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: so many people have this preconceived notion of where I 54 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: came from, what kind of lifestyle I've had, just based 55 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: on appearances, right, I definitely had that I Um, I 56 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: thought that you were someone who was privileged Fuji and 57 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: um probably somebody that I wouldn't actually be friends with. 58 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: Little did I know most of those things weren't entirely true. 59 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: But you just the way you carried yourself. You know, 60 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: you carried yourself with confidence, and I think that you 61 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: exuded an air of I don't know, just I never 62 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: I never out with people like that before. Did you 63 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: ever feel like I was pretending to be something that 64 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: I wasn't. No, I definitely thought you were who you were. 65 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you had designer stuff, and you know, for me, 66 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: it was like I was just kind of collecting my 67 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: belongings one belonging at a time. So I definitely thought 68 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: you were who you said you were or you claimed 69 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: to be. Oh who did I claim to be? Emilia? 70 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: Was there ever a time that I claimed to be 71 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: something that I wasn't. Well, I was just getting to 72 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: know you, So I had an idea. I had an 73 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: idea you or you had an idea of like what 74 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: I was, But I didn't directly tell you this is 75 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: what I am, this is who I am. I definitely 76 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: thought you were someone who was I guess well collected, 77 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, someone that had their ship together. Um, like 78 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: I said everything that I didn't have, and I definitely 79 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: thought you were out of my league as far as 80 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: even friendship went. Okay, that was the preconceived thing. That 81 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: was what I had wrong, because had I known once 82 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: I did know, I realized that you know, we're the same, 83 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: You're my people. But I think that's something that everybody 84 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: has when they see you. They you're just you're a 85 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: person to be admired. I thank you. That's really sweet. 86 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: I think you enjoyed that too a little bit. So 87 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: let's talk about being trends. Because it took me a 88 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: while to tell you. I'm gonna say I didn't tell 89 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: you until a few years later, or was it a 90 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: year and a half maybe? Okay? What was that conversation? Like? 91 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: What do you remember? Because I have an idea of 92 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: where it happened, how it happened. I have an idea too. 93 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: It was is I believe we were in Chicago and 94 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: we were in the hotel room. We were at a conference, 95 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: which is something that we did a lot of, and 96 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: it wasn't just me. It was a couple of us 97 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: that you, I guess, felt close to, and you had 98 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: professed it like I have something I have to tell 99 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: you guys. And I was like, what the what? I 100 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: had no idea what you were going to say. I 101 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: had no like, I couldn't even imagine what it could be. 102 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: I thought maybe you were going to tell me that 103 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: you had cancer, or or that you didn't have long 104 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: to live, or something like that. I know, I was honestly, 105 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: my heart was pounding when you told me so the 106 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: way that you said it was. I just want you 107 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: guys to know. I feel like you deserve to know 108 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: that I was born a boy. Oh. I do remember 109 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: that conversation. I don't remember exactly what I said, but 110 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: I remember where we were in the hotel room, sitting 111 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: on the bed. Right there was a group of us. 112 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: It's like maybe like a handful of us. And what 113 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: was your reaction? I was shocked. I was like, what 114 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: what are you telling me right now? Like, I just 115 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: it took me a second to put the pieces together, 116 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: and eventually I put them together. Okay, did you immediately 117 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: change your perception of me? No? What did you think? 118 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: It made me love you even more because I felt 119 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: closer to you. I was surprised that there was something 120 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: that you hadn't told me. And just to give you 121 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of context of why, like it took 122 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: me so long too, I guess come out in Los Angeles. 123 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: You know, I started my transition in San Diego. I 124 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: went to college as Emmy and I'm I mean, people 125 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: don't walk around saying Hi, my name is Emmy and 126 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: by the way, I'm trance like. People don't walk around 127 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: saying that so I always told myself, like, if anyone 128 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: ever asked me, I'll just say the truth. But I'm 129 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: not going to leave with like, by the way, I'm trance. 130 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: Like I thought it was irrelevant why people don't do that. 131 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: So by the time I moved to Los Angeles and 132 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: I met you and I met all my group of friends, 133 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: it just wasn't something that ever came up. Did I 134 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: feel like I was living a life? Maybe a little bit, yeah, 135 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: because I felt like, well, you know, if they know 136 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: out of respect they're not telling me or confronting me, 137 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: or if they don't know. Yeah, I don't know. But 138 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: I had a sponsor at the time that knew that 139 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: I was dealing with these like internal demons of like, 140 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: oh my god, I feel like such a fraud. And 141 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: so in doing the work that we do in a 142 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 1: top step program, I started taking inventory of myself and 143 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: I was assigned or it was suggested that I tell 144 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: at least three people because she knew that I was 145 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: dealing with shame of living a double life. So I 146 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: feel because when I moved to Los Angeles, I was 147 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: already Emmy, and I didn't feel like I had to 148 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: introduce myself as I'm a trans woman. Obviously, in dating 149 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: I always disclosed it, but yeah, I think you know 150 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: that's why I never really talked about it. Well, I 151 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: think that makes sense. I mean, you spent so much 152 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: of your life wanting to be this person. You know. 153 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: I think you had this idea of knowing you now, 154 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: You had this ideal of who you wanted to be, 155 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: and finally I think that you got there and you're like, 156 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: why am I going to have to go backwards? Why 157 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: am I going to have to take ownership of something 158 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: that I wasn't even proud to be before? You know, 159 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: I think that's exactly what it was, like, why do 160 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: I have to go backwards? I already came to Los 161 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: Angeles living as Emmy, and I didn't feel like I 162 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: had to introduce you to like someone that I wasn't. 163 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: You know, I get it, but it got heavy on 164 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: me because I knew that I was keeping a secret 165 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: and I didn't intend to keep a secret. It's just 166 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: I was nervous. I was scared. I will say that 167 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: I felt like it was a little bit dramatic. I 168 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,599 Speaker 1: felt like, you know, it's like, I don't feel like 169 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 1: it's something that you should have to like quietly disclose right, 170 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: like it's like, oh, my dad's in prison, Like you know, 171 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: it's just a fact, you know, like okay, I was 172 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: born a boy, you know, like it's just part of 173 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 1: the casual conversation in my eyes. But to you, it 174 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: was like dune, Dune done what. It was a very 175 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: scary thing to do. It was a very scary conversation 176 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: to have because I didn't know actually with you, I 177 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: did know that everything was going to be okay, but 178 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: I didn't know how the rest of my friends were 179 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: going to react, and that made me nervous, and just 180 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: because I didn't want to lose my friends, it took 181 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: me a while to get to that point where I 182 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: could have this conversation, you know what I mean. Mm hmm. 183 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: I will say that I remember being jealous that I 184 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: knew you had told Jesse before me, and I was like, 185 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: I wonder what it was about that friendship that made 186 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: you feel more comfortable? Did I tell Jesse before you? 187 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: I don't remember that. I honestly don't remember having this 188 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: conversation with Jesse seeing that's just something that I that 189 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: I thought of because I'm jealous. M hmm. Sorry that 190 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: you felt that way because you are the one that 191 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: I am closest to. Like, I just remember being so 192 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: nervous of what other people were going to think, because right, 193 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: that's how I was raised. What people think about you 194 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: is like you know, you know how it is like 195 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: in Hispanic families, and so I always thought that I 196 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: was gonna lose some friendships, you know. I was horrified 197 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: to talk to Oscar about it. I was horrified to 198 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: talk to Nelly about it because I didn't know how 199 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: they were going to react. And you spend a lot 200 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 1: of time like working on I think because you had 201 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: to go through so many stages of your transition, right, 202 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: you spend so much time working on yourself and becoming 203 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: this person who you want to be. You try to 204 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: get this. You put out this image of who you 205 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: want yourself to be, and you work really hard. That's 206 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: evidenced by the car you drive, the clothes you wear, 207 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: you know, how you speak at meetings and all this stuff. 208 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: And it's like whoa Like, I feel like I'm going 209 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: to rip the floor out of under from underneath my 210 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: friends here, you know, And it's like the same thing 211 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: for me. I'm a perfectionist, you know, so one nick 212 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: in my my shield of armor, and I feel like 213 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: the world is over that people no longer view me 214 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: the same way. You know, maybe it was something like that. 215 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: I will say that once I had this conversation with y'all, 216 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: I was so much freer, and I felt authentic, and 217 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: I felt closer to people. The way that you guys 218 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: embraced me after this, it was just so beautiful. I 219 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: am so lucky to have such supportive friends, my best friends, 220 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: my my chosen family that I call it, you know, 221 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: not a lot of people have that. I feel like 222 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: we're extremely lucky to be part of a fellowship of 223 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: people that are just so accepting of everything. I mean, 224 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: someone can come in without shoes to the meeting because 225 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: they don't have any, and will welcome them in with 226 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: open arms, and I feel like that's something that you know. 227 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: I'm glad that you I'm glad that you like our reaction. 228 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: But all of us are sober, and that's what we do, 229 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: you know, and I don't. I don't think it could 230 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: have gone any other way, but I'm not you, and 231 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 1: I wasn't carrying around all that weight. Yeah, no, it 232 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: was really scary, and and I was embarrassed. I was 233 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: ashamed because rejection is never a good feeling, and I 234 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: think that I was scared that I might be rejected 235 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: by some people, and the reality is that I wasn't 236 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: rejected by any one of my friends. Be feeling sorry, 237 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: not think it was intergestion here. I am thinking that 238 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: you're getting emotional over like our conversation. You said earlier 239 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: that I had an armor. What do you mean by that? Yeah, 240 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: you definitely have an armor. I think that in a 241 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: lot of ways, like what I heard on the podcast, 242 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: there was some of that I had never even known before. 243 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, you just mentioned rejection as well, 244 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: and I think that you know, given the times that 245 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: you've had rejection in your life, I mean it was 246 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: like not just plain rejection. I mean there was rejection 247 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: from your family and from people that you wanted to date. 248 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: And I think that now you are very very careful 249 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: with what you share with the world, who the world 250 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: gets to see, because I think sometimes you're afraid that 251 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: one misstep and people might leave you forever. Recording crumbs, 252 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: it was very difficult for me. Yes, I had written 253 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: a book, but nobody has read of that yet. Plus 254 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: I am recording in the middle of a fucking pandemic, 255 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: isolated as fuck. It was really difficult. There were times 256 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: that I felt I couldn't continue. And there's some topics 257 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: that we left out because they were just too deep 258 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: to talk about at that time. But you know, here 259 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: I am, I have my producers in my ear and 260 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: having to relive everything, and they're asking questions and like 261 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: in the nicest way, you know, but they're just like, 262 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: go deeper, go deeper. It was challenging. It was rough, 263 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: kind of like your sponsor, kind of like my sponsor. 264 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, I do have an armor. People 265 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: tell me that all the time. People tell me that 266 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: I'm so hard to read. I don't mean for that 267 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: to be the case. It's just I guess how I am. 268 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: But you you know me so well. You know what 269 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: I'm thinking before I even say it. You know, that's 270 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: how all you know me. So how was it for 271 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: you listening to the podcasts and hearing some things about 272 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: my childhood or my dating experiences that were before your time? Emotional? 273 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: You know, it's like there's a lot of stuff that 274 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: I feel like I go through um as a cis 275 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: gender bisexual female and in the dating world. I feel 276 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: like I've been let down, you know, or rejected, and 277 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: I heard this stuff from you, and it was just 278 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't comparable, you know. I felt like it brought 279 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: it to a whole other level that I could never 280 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: know or understand. I mean, it was hard because I 281 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: thought that I thought that I knew everything about you. 282 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: But I definitely feel like and I could see how 283 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: some of this stuff was just drug out of you, 284 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: because because I don't think that you would freely share 285 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff. So I feel like we're 286 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 1: very lucky to get to hear such like intricate details. 287 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: I felt like I was getting naked for the entire world, 288 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: and that's a fucking scary thought. You know me, you know, 289 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: I'm like very like reserved, and so for everyone to 290 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: hear the good, the bad, the sad like it was, 291 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: it was fucking nerve racking. I will say I was 292 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: surprised by a lot of it, because you know, I've 293 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: heard you share, you know, in the program that we 294 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: we program of recovery that we work in or that 295 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: we live in. We share our stories and I've heard 296 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: you share hundreds of times probably, and I thought that 297 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: all those details were in there, but there was things 298 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: from this that you know, we don't talk about in recovery, 299 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: we don't talk about as even friends, things that were 300 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: like hiding in the shadows that probably never would have 301 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: crept their way out, Like what the vulnerability from the 302 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: dating stuff off? You know, I see you as a 303 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: person that you know, I've seen you swipe and I 304 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: and I've been a part of that, that moment of 305 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: being there with a match, like the titting or whatever 306 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: it is, Like I I feel like now I can 307 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: see you know, I now I know where that smile 308 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: comes from, you know, because it's like you had mentioned 309 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: like it was a feeling like no other, you know, 310 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: the attention that you got from a match or waiting 311 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: for the one text to come, and it was like 312 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: I never I didn't have that much attachment to that 313 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. And I feel like it really got 314 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: I really got to see like where Emmy became Emmy 315 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 1: an episode one Love Hurts. I'm in this really unhealthy 316 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: relationship with someone who I dated in a very early 317 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: sobriety right, someone who I guess is considered a newcomer. 318 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: What is thirteen stepping to you? Well? I didn't consider 319 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: that thirteen stepping. Um, what you let us see I 320 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: think in that episode was someone who for the first 321 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: time was getting attention back, um, from the attention that 322 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: they were giving. And this person just happened to be 323 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: in treatment, you know, and you talked about like I 324 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: remember you had said, like and then we came home 325 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: together and had dinner, you know, and it was like 326 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: the it was there was a sense of pride in 327 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: your voice from that, Like it was like you brought 328 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: him home and you got to like have a normal 329 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: dinner with somebody, you know. And so um, I saw 330 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: it as like it was the beginning. You know, what's 331 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: the big deal about dating in the first year of recovery? 332 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: It's a no note? Why? Um, Well, for me, I 333 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: know that I had a tendency to go back to 334 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: the same kinds of relationships and repeat the same behaviors 335 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: over and over again. And um, my sponsor made me 336 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: wait year so that I could I actually I didn't 337 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: know why, but it's it's so that we can work 338 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: on ourselves, and we can do this work that allows 339 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,239 Speaker 1: us to see maybe some patterns that we had in 340 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: our sex lives that maybe we could do differently healthier 341 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: ways of living. So I guess technically it's not called 342 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: thirteen stepping what I did. Some people call it that 343 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: thirteen stepping is has more of a predatory people at 344 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: meeting specifically looking for newcomers who are vulnerable. That wasn't 345 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: the case with me. No, And I remember the way 346 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: that you painted the picture when he walked into the room. 347 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: It was someone that you noticed, you know, not having 348 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: any idea that he happened to also live at that 349 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: treatment center. But I do see what you're saying, and 350 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: I mean that must be hard to come out with now, 351 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: given the fact that we are told don't date someone 352 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: that's you know, I mean, I wouldn't do it today. 353 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: With fourteen years of sobriety, I've learned so much from 354 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: from and grown so much since then. You know, I 355 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: was only a year and a half sober when I'm 356 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: at Jason, and a lot of stuff changes in thirteen years. 357 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: If you're doing the work, you change, you grow. I mean, 358 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: I guess I'm used to you being hard on yourself. 359 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you're hard on yourself with everything. You're a perfectionist, 360 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: you know, And um, I think that some of the 361 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: ways that you described yourself was actually the way that 362 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: you thought that other people viewed you, which was a 363 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: little skewed. And especially when it came to dating, I 364 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: feel like the fear in there was bigger than the 365 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: actual reality because it took a hell of a strong 366 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: person to walk through all that ship. You know, I, 367 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: I guess I am a little hard on myself. A 368 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: lot of us are. I mean, you're a little hard 369 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: on yourself sometimes too. I have like the privilege of 370 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: seeing you in action. You know, you're a badass nurse. 371 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: What do they call you, Dana is a badass bitch 372 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: nurse or something like that. One of your clients called 373 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: you that, and I and I get to see you 374 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: in action, and you have this work ethic that's like, 375 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: you know, goals. You're so dedicated and I admire you 376 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: so much. And I guess because I've had like a 377 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: front row seat to like your growth, like somebody who 378 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: came from skid row, went to jail, harrow addict, came 379 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: straight out of jail to a tough step meeting, got 380 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: our nursing license, and just you're a freaking miracle. And 381 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: so I admire you so much, and I feel the 382 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: same way about you. And that's where I think sometimes 383 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: that you don't see yourself the way that I see you. 384 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: I mean, that person that I saw when I first 385 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: came into the rooms um has only quadrupled today, you know. 386 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: And I wonder why you are so hard on yourself, 387 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: because it seems to me that it stemmed from like 388 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: years of your childhood and people you had tough consequences. 389 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: You know, you're alone a lot, and when you weren't, 390 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: it seems like there were people putting restrictions, maybe on 391 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: the way you danced and things like that, and so 392 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: I don't know why you're so hard on yourself. A 393 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that I learned about image came 394 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: from my grandmother. She was just so elegant, always had 395 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: her hair do and make up, dress beautifully. She was 396 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: my hero, and so I always felt like I had 397 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: this responsibility to take care of my family after she passed. 398 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: And every time when she hits the fan, when I 399 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: feel like my world is falling apart, I think to myself, 400 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: what would my grandma do in this situation? And I 401 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: get my strength from that. And I knew she was 402 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: hard on herself and she was hard on my mom 403 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: and and I think it's just something that I learned 404 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: along the way to be hard on myself. I know 405 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: today that perfection does not exist, but it's sometimes so 406 00:25:52,840 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: hard to undo all those years of of what's it 407 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: called conditioning, conditioning? Thank you. I feel like you want 408 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: everything to be elevated. And I think that that's something 409 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: that I have always admired because I can see how 410 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: you look at things and you can see how they're 411 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: all going to be like right before your eyes before 412 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: they've even happened, you know, like when it comes to 413 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: the conference and the visual of how the banquet room 414 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: will look or whatever. And I think that that's something 415 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: that um, at least for me. When I heard the podcast, 416 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she gets up from her grandma. Absolutely. 417 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: My grandma taught me what a good fabric was. She 418 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: taught me what good stitching was. She taught me, you know, 419 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: what high quality fabric was. She taught me about shoes 420 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 1: and what good quality shoes were. Those are things that 421 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: she taught me. She taught me about sense, about hair, 422 00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: about product. So yeah, I get it from my grandmother. Alright, 423 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: so you know a thing or two about this. What 424 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: is it like to date in recovery horrible. Why what 425 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: makes it horrible? Oh, it's weird because now I have 426 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: a different view on on it. But um, it's horrible 427 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 1: because a you know, when you're going out with somebody 428 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: that either drinks or doesn't drink, you either have to 429 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,239 Speaker 1: have the conversation, which you know, I've had someone like 430 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: try to convince me to have a drink that it 431 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: would be fine, you know that sort of thing, or 432 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: you don't tell them and then there's this elephant in 433 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: the room and you're just waiting for them to change 434 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: their mind once they realize that you don't drink. That 435 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: was the hardest stuff for me. So you know, obviously 436 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 1: in all of my relationships in these episodes, I'm already sober. 437 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: Not everybody ideated was sober, but some of them were. 438 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: What do you member, Baldylan, I remember you were in 439 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: love and I think as far as like as long 440 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: as I had known you, I hadn't seen that before, 441 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: and I was so I was so happy, you know. 442 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: I remember the first time that you brought him along 443 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: and and introduced him to all of us, and I 444 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: just like you were glowing. What was it about him? 445 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: Because remember, like I have an idea of things, but you, 446 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: as an outsider, may have seen something completely different. What 447 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: I saw was someone that worshiped the ground that you 448 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: walked on. And I think, you know, what I remember 449 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: feeling was, Wow, this is someone that Emmy has been 450 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: her true authentic self too and with and he's accepted 451 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: her for every single, every single footstep along the way. 452 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: He was right there with you, you know. And I 453 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: think it was the first time, at least in our 454 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: friendship that your covers were just pulled, you know, with 455 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: the partner, and that partner stuck around. You know. It's 456 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: funny that you see that, because my mom said the 457 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: same thing when we had this conversation. She said, he 458 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: adored you. I thought so too. Not only that, but 459 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: you were the same self that you are with me. 460 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,239 Speaker 1: I mean, they're joking around the voices, the everything that 461 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: you guys did together, and you shared the same lifestyle. 462 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: We have our secret love language that you would make 463 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,959 Speaker 1: fun of, you know, like super little baby voices like 464 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: I love you, like little things like that. And you're right, like, 465 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: I really was my authentic self with him. Had you 466 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: felt that way before in a relationship? No, I hadn't. 467 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: I could see that. You know. The interesting thing is 468 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: I wasn't looking for a relationship when I met him. 469 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: I remember, I mean, you were around me so much 470 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: at that time. Like I remember we went to a 471 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: meeting and he texted me and asked to be exclusive 472 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: and that you were next to me, and I was like, 473 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: oh my god, this guy wants to be exclusive. I 474 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: think I had to talk you into it, and I'm like, 475 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, Like Dylan, really I fell in love 476 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: with Dylan because he was so authentic, so pure to me, 477 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: he had a heart of gold, and even like areas 478 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: that he what's the word I'm looking for, even things 479 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: that he lacked. I think that's exactly what it was. 480 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: I think that he was inexperienced in a lot of ways, 481 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: and especially in the ways of you being trans, Like 482 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: I don't think he had ever dated a trans person before, 483 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: a trans woman before, and I think that that was it. 484 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: You know, Like, if I had to really like define 485 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: what it was that made you fall in love with him, 486 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: it was that he like purely went into it with 487 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: everything that he had in the beginning, accepting everything, and 488 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't about your gender. It was about Emmy, who 489 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: Emmy is inside. That's what he fell in love with, 490 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: That's what we all fall in love with. Did you 491 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: like to him, Yeah, yeah, I mean as much as 492 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: you probably like Chris. I mean, he was your partner, 493 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: and of course that we would welcome him with open arms. 494 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: And I think that you guys shared a lot of 495 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: the same like I said before, like lifestyle stuff. However, um, 496 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: I wouldn't hang out with him on my own like 497 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't consider him like a friend that 498 00:31:54,720 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: I would chill with. Right. Were there any guys on 499 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: the podcast that you didn't really like Max? Max? I 500 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: always thought that Max had left like the door open 501 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: for like future things, like a possibility for something in 502 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: the future. And that's why I think I hated him, 503 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: because I felt like he was stringing you along. And 504 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: I remember thinking while I was listening that how much 505 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: time has gone by? Here a month, six weeks, eight weeks, 506 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: and you're still in Um there's still no closure to 507 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: the situation, as if you're even going to have a 508 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: second date. And I remember thinking, like, what has come back? 509 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: I went looking through social media while we were recording 510 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: the podcasts, and I remember seeing him he posted something 511 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: in Thailand, a picture of him, like I guess, on 512 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: a bike or on some sort of something, and the 513 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: caption said just out here looking for lady boys, obviously 514 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: as a transphobic joke. Oh my god. That made me 515 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: feel so angry. And his friends were all just like 516 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: laughing and you know, commenting with jokes, and I thought, 517 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: that is so cruel. I couldn't believe it. Somebody who 518 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: was encouraging me to be open and to be my 519 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: authentic self and then goes and does something so stupid 520 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: and shitty. I thought, Wow, what an asshole betrayal? Do 521 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? It was just like I 522 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: couldn't believe what I was reading, And I guess I 523 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: felt like that the effort that you put into and 524 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: I know you. I know how much effort you put 525 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: into the wording of an email, a text message, the 526 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: way they lay out on your Instagram, or our our 527 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: job we work at the same place. Instagram is going 528 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: to look there's so much attention to detail. So I 529 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: know the effort that went into even deciding to make 530 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: that phone call. He was the one that he was 531 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: the one that you called on his six years sobriety. Yeah, 532 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: and and I remember thinking, wow, it took so much 533 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: courage for you to work up the will power to 534 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: make that call. And then as soon as you hung 535 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: up the phone, You're like, wow, why did I do that? 536 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: Oh my god, did I do the wrong thing. I 537 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 1: made a mistake. I should never have done that. And 538 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: I'm like you were. You were wishing him a happy 539 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:43,280 Speaker 1: six years, you know, And you know I'll never I'll 540 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: never forget because I was in Nashville, you know, and 541 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: I saw the date June tenth, it's his birthday. I 542 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: went outside of my comfort zone to do something, you know, 543 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: because I kept thinking in love and in war, everything's fair, right, 544 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: And I took a leap of faith to do something 545 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: that I normally would not do because I'm so reserved. 546 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: I think that's like one of the areas where your 547 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: heart on yourself, you know, because the like I said, 548 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: the amount of energy that you put into working up 549 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: the courage to send a text or to make a call, 550 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,959 Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, I don't know what drives that. Well, 551 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: you know what it is. This is what it is. 552 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to come across as crazy. We talked 553 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: about this with it with um Zach's episode, because of 554 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: how we've been conditioned. So I don't want to send 555 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: an impulsive text message. An impulsive email creates something impulsive 556 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: that I might later regret. Has anyone ever told you 557 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: that you're crazy? Jason? So maybe that's where the fear 558 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: comes from. You know, you want to just keep it cool, 559 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 1: and we try to mold ourselves into something because we 560 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: don't want to be rejected. We're seen as crazy. I 561 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: know I fltered myself a lot, but even then it 562 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 1: took him a whole day to respond, right am, I 563 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: correct a whole day to respond, and then he ghosted 564 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: you over a mention of a woman. Yeah, to this day, 565 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: who knows what the funk that was about? What does 566 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: that make you feel like you can't say what's on 567 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: your mind now, especially in getting to know someone. I 568 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: think I've gotten a lot better at that. I mean, 569 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: what do you think? I think so too. I definitely 570 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: think that I don't know what private conversations you have 571 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: in the beginnings of meeting people, but I do think 572 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: that maybe sometimes you're afraid you'll say the wrong thing. 573 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: I know I am that way. I'm you're always afraid 574 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: of I've gone to a point where I'm just like, 575 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: funk it. This is who I am, to take it 576 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: or leave it today, this is who Emmy is. And 577 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it. And if something's bothering me, I'm 578 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: going to bring it up. I'm not going to live 579 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,439 Speaker 1: just in fear of like what he's going to think 580 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: of me if I ask him this, what's the point 581 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: of that? So I think I've come a long way 582 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 1: in the last few years, you know, after my relationship 583 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: with Dylan ended, you know, like we're cordial, I guess, 584 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: but there's always like that question in my mind, does 585 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: he have any fucking regret because the years and I've 586 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: never even gone an apology from him. I remember you 587 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: talking about that in your podcast in the episode, and 588 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: You're like, I have no idea if any of the 589 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: things that I want to happen will happen, And I 590 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,959 Speaker 1: remember wondering, I wonder what it is that she wants 591 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: to happen. At this time, when I finished recording the podcast, 592 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: Dylan stuff was still at my apartment, and so the 593 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: way we left off when he went into treatment was 594 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: that he was going to come back in three months, 595 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: that didn't happen, right, He came back a year and 596 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 1: a half later and he didn't even send you a message. Okay, 597 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to be here a while longer than I thought. 598 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: The way I look at him today, it's different. Do 599 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: I still think he has a heart of gold and 600 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: is innocent? You know, I still think he's a good person. Yes? 601 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: Is he innocent? No, obviously not. Is he an asshole 602 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: for never making an amends? Absolutely, but that's on him. 603 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,439 Speaker 1: Do you think that your relationship with Dylan had any 604 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: effect on the type of love that you're looking for today? 605 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: Do my really show with Dylan but I thought was 606 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: picture perfect and then like he fucking blindsided me? Has 607 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: made me feel like I can't trust anyone. It really 608 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: has because if someone like him, who was so innocent, 609 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: so pure, so authentic, so in love, who called me 610 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: his queen, who did anything for me, did what he did, 611 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: anybody else could do that. It's scary. I know I 612 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: can't live like that always. But you know, he's moved on, 613 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 1: like he's online dating, and I'm just thinking to myself, like, 614 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,280 Speaker 1: what an asshole? Like, how can he potentially start looking 615 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: for something when he never even like finished what he 616 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: started exactly, but that goes to show the kind of 617 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: program that he's working. Maybe he's ashamed, ashamed of what 618 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: leaving you in the arkness. I remember thinking that, and 619 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,240 Speaker 1: I think that it's what your friends what happened is. Okay, 620 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: he might be ashamed. I don't know, But I just 621 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 1: don't understand how people can carry on and live freely 622 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: without any fox, not giving any fox of like what 623 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: you did to somebody, the harm that you caused in 624 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,879 Speaker 1: someone's life, because it was not just you know, emotional, 625 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: it was financial, it was you know, everything. My world 626 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: kind of fell apart. You know. At the time when 627 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: I when that happened with Dylan, I was making pretty 628 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: good money, right and I was able to continue paying 629 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 1: everything on my own because I didn't get off till 630 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:57,720 Speaker 1: the end of the year. But I resented it. Yes, 631 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: he left me, fucking he left the big hole and 632 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: seeing all his things there for that fucking year and 633 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: a half was so difficult. It wasn't what you signed 634 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: up for. It was not what I signed up for. 635 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:26,919 Speaker 1: I guess we're swaying a lot of time on Dylan 636 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: because you were so present for that. I remember thinking 637 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: that he was such a fucking asshole, and I couldn't 638 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: believe that he would do that to you. Some of 639 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,319 Speaker 1: them I loved so much. But knowing what I know 640 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 1: about the program and people that relapse, as we are 641 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: not ourselves in that moment, you know. And so I 642 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: think the bigger thing is how has he not been 643 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: able to make any kind of amends to you by 644 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: now now in sobriety, because I feel like when we relapsed, 645 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: everything is unpredictable. Whatever is going to happen next, who knows, 646 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: But now there's no excuse. Yeah, no, I agree, and 647 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: I feel the same way. And you know, maybe I'm 648 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: a little resentful now. Maybe I went from being hurt 649 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: to like a little resentful because the least you can 650 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: do is own up to it, especially since that's what 651 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: the twelve steps tell us to do. You think, you know, 652 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,399 Speaker 1: if he can sleep well at night, then is there 653 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: any anything anyone could do to sweep you after your feet? Today? Man? 654 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: I just want to admire. Oh, I don't know, Dana. 655 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,800 Speaker 1: A lot of people think that I'm hard to please. 656 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: I mean, you've said it, my mom has said it. 657 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: But is there any anything anyone can do to break 658 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: down that armor and make you feel vulnerable enough to 659 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: share a relationship. Okay, I don't know how to answer 660 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 1: this because I have an idea in my mind of 661 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 1: like what would sweep me off my feet? Tell us, well, 662 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,360 Speaker 1: it's bullshit. It really is, like I just want to 663 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: admire someone. I want somebody to get excited about me. 664 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: I want to get excited about them. I want someone 665 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: to be proud of, like what I do. I want 666 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: to be proud of what they do. You know, it 667 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,240 Speaker 1: doesn't sound like bullshit. This is a thing with Dylan. 668 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,879 Speaker 1: I was so like I was like his cheerleader. There 669 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,839 Speaker 1: were certain areas where he wasn't my cheerleader, Like when 670 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,359 Speaker 1: I finished writing my book, he didn't want to read it, 671 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 1: and that should have been like a red flag for me. 672 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 1: I just want to be excited about somebody who's equally 673 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: excited about me, and the sound corny, maybe a little 674 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: bit o. I don't want to have to censor myself 675 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: around someone and vice versa. I want someone to let 676 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: me be either traditional Mexican housewife. I remember the last 677 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,360 Speaker 1: time that I talked to Dylan in person, he said 678 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 1: something about no when I told him like I cooked, 679 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:29,080 Speaker 1: I cleaned, I washed your clothes, and he replied, I 680 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:34,360 Speaker 1: fucking hated that. That was so hurtful. Yeah, fun that. 681 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: So I want somebody to let me play the role 682 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,759 Speaker 1: that I want to play, all right. That's my way 683 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 1: of being me. I enjoy doing those things for someone. 684 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: If someone sweeps you off your feet after this, I 685 00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: get the credit that was me and Dana, and that 686 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: was Crumbs. Thanks for listening and being part of my journey. 687 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: Crumbs is the production of I Heeart Radios, Michael Dura 688 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:22,120 Speaker 1: podcast Network, and in association with Trojan Horse. It's produced 689 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 1: by Margaret Catcher and and edited by Jazzmine Rometo and 690 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:31,920 Speaker 1: Alex Fumeto. Original music by Daniel Peter Schmidt and engineering 691 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: by Manuel Executive produced by Giants and Conno Burn for 692 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:46,279 Speaker 1: I Heeart, Alex Bumeto for Trojan Horse, Joshua Weinstein, Jazzmindrometro 693 00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: and me Emio LEA special thanks to Monissa Hendrix, fernand 694 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: Estrava and Sara Mota. Listen to Crumbs on the I 695 00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whereever you get your podcasts. 696 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: M