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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers. Since government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events, you can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt, my name

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Speaker 1: is all they call me Ben, and you are you

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Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: As always, we're joined with our super producer Alex w

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Speaker 1: on the ones and twos? Are you Gonna Wave? Is

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Speaker 1: it all? Has he always been there? Is it like

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Speaker 1: the Shining? Is it like that scene? That scene the Shining?

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Speaker 1: I guess it's like it's happily ever after from now on.

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Speaker 1: It does get to a place where the things that

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Speaker 1: are in your life at the moment get to a

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Speaker 1: point where they feel like they've just always been like that,

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Speaker 1: even if it's only been a week. For one thing.

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Speaker 1: That's very normal to people who live in the US.

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Speaker 1: It's just the sheer size of this country, the sheer

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Speaker 1: enormity of it. Those purple mountains, majesty, It's yeah, it's huge.

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Speaker 1: And we have large swaths of land that are largely

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Speaker 1: unpopulated by human beings, and a lot of these lands

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Speaker 1: are allocated by the government as a place where you

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Speaker 1: can go right, And every year millions of people visit

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Speaker 1: public parks, go on day hikes, go on more um

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Speaker 1: more involved treks, you know, long term camping. There is

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Speaker 1: a darker side to some of these explorations, and the

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Speaker 1: fact of the matter is that not all of the

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Speaker 1: people who go into the wild return, many, in fact

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Speaker 1: go missing. And for years now, folks, you have been

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Speaker 1: writing to Matt Nolan I asking us to take a

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Speaker 1: closer look at this phenomenon of people who just go missing,

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Speaker 1: and not just in in um wilderness in the US,

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Speaker 1: as we'll find, but in places in other places around

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Speaker 1: the world. And the question is what happens? How do

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Speaker 1: we track this? And in our exploration of this topic,

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Speaker 1: we went directly to the source, to the most well

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Speaker 1: known expert on disappearances in national parks. Ladies and gentlemen. Today,

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Speaker 1: in this episode we are joined by David Politis, the

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Speaker 1: prolific author of numerous works, the mastermind behind the Missing

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Speaker 1: four one one series, and the creator of the new

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Speaker 1: Missing four one one documentary. Welcome to the show, David, Hey,

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Speaker 1: thanks a million, guys. I appreciate being here. So I

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Speaker 1: guess the first things first, if we want to file

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Speaker 1: it under that category. For everybody listening out there, could

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Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit more about the missing

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Speaker 1: four one one phenomenon, which began as a book series.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? Correct? Uh? I'm a former police officers

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Speaker 1: spent twenty years in California and municipal department there, and

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Speaker 1: after I left, I started to do do some research in

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Speaker 1: a national park and some two National park rangers knew

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Speaker 1: me from other books I had written. They were following

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Speaker 1: me around. Later on, I left the park went back

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Speaker 1: to my room independently. They each came back and went

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Speaker 1: to the room, knocked on the door and said that

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Speaker 1: they had something to tell me, and they knew who

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Speaker 1: I was. They knew I had investigative work I've done

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Speaker 1: in the past, and they said, we have a story

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Speaker 1: for you. And what they had said was is that

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Speaker 1: they had worked at other parks, and they had worked

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Speaker 1: other missing persons cases in those national parks. They eventually

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Speaker 1: got together. They talked about compared notes at the park

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Speaker 1: that they were at, and they thought there were some

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Speaker 1: peculiarities there that needed to be looked into, namely, during

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Speaker 1: a search during that first seven to ten days that

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Speaker 1: someone goes missing, there's a lot of publicity, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of press, there's a lot of people looking for

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Speaker 1: the missing person. At the end of that, in the the

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Speaker 1: ten days, there's nothing. Everything stops, there's no follow up,

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Speaker 1: there's no investigation. There's essentially nothing more that happens. And

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Speaker 1: when they looked into it, they thought that the locations

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Speaker 1: that these people went missing were odd. Many of them

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Speaker 1: went missing in places that weren't deep in the woods,

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Speaker 1: but might have been fairly close to the center of

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Speaker 1: the park, or a populated area, or a location where

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Speaker 1: a lot of people should have seen what happened. And

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Speaker 1: they the more they looked into it, and the more

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Speaker 1: they tried to find out information, they were stymied themselves.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't get some reports, and they thought the whole

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Speaker 1: thing was just strange. So I said I'd look into it.

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Speaker 1: I left the park the next day, called a couple

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Speaker 1: of law enforcement friends. I said, this is what I heard.

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Speaker 1: See if there's any validity to it. You know, later

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Speaker 1: on they called me back and said, wow, there's something here.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of disappearances and there's not a

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Speaker 1: lot of follow up, and there's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: information available. So the National Parks are US has a

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Speaker 1: contingent of National Park Police officers and they're all trained

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Speaker 1: at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. They get outstanding training.

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Speaker 1: It's the big department. And we knew that if we

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Speaker 1: filed a series of Freedom of Information Act requests against

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Speaker 1: the National Park Police, this could be a jump off

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Speaker 1: point for our investigation into these missing people. So the

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Speaker 1: first thing I did was filed against them for a

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Speaker 1: list of missing people, and within six weeks I get

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Speaker 1: a notice back from him. An attorney calls me from

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Speaker 1: the Park Service and says, why do you want the information?

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Speaker 1: And I know from reading the Freedom of Information Act

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Speaker 1: they can't use the rationale behind why you make a

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Speaker 1: request for determining if they're going to give you the

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Speaker 1: information or not. And I told him that and he said, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get the information. We just want to know

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Speaker 1: why you're using it. And I said, just doing some research.

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Speaker 1: And the person then came back and said, well, we

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Speaker 1: don't have any lists of missing people. I said, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, you guys have a huge law enforcement group.

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Speaker 1: I could go to any small to medium sized law

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Speaker 1: enforcement agency in the United States, walk into their chief's office,

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Speaker 1: and within an hour he would have a list of

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Speaker 1: all the missing people in his jurisdiction. Now you're telling me,

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Speaker 1: in your large jurisdiction, you don't have any lifts missing people.

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Speaker 1: He said, no, Well, if you go on to the

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Speaker 1: website of the National Park Service and you kind of

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Speaker 1: look around there, they have a lot of lists. One

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Speaker 1: of the more interesting ones is a list of all

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Speaker 1: the movies made on National Park Service property. So they

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Speaker 1: know the importance of keeping lists and the importance of

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Speaker 1: keeping lists of missing people, and they chose not to

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Speaker 1: give it to us. So I was a published author

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Speaker 1: at the time, and I used an exemption, and I said,

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Speaker 1: I want to use my exemption, and I would like

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Speaker 1: to get the information from your agency, and if you

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Speaker 1: don't have it like you claim, I want you to

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Speaker 1: put the list together for me. So they get back

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Speaker 1: to me later and they said, well, we did a

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Speaker 1: little search and your books aren't in enough libraries to

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Speaker 1: qualify for the exemption. Well, folks, there is no such qualifier.

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Speaker 1: It says if you are a published author, this qualifies period.

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Speaker 1: And I reminded him of that and they said, well,

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Speaker 1: this is just an internal policy we have. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: let's just pretend that I want to pay for the information.

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Speaker 1: How much are you going to charge me for a

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Speaker 1: list of missing people from Yosemite National Park and then

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Speaker 1: a list from your entire jurisdiction? He goes, we'll get

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Speaker 1: back to you. They get back to me, and they said, well,

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Speaker 1: for a list from Yosemite National Park, it's gonna cost

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Speaker 1: you thirty four thousand dollars, and if you want to

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Speaker 1: list from the entire National Park Service, it's going to

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Speaker 1: cost you one point four million dollars. Wow. What what

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Speaker 1: kind of justification did they have for that number? None.

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Speaker 1: They said that they would use an analyst at six

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Speaker 1: an hour, and they figured it would take them that

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Speaker 1: long to put it together. Now, since then, I've learned

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Speaker 1: a lot. We shouldn't just have these lists just available

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Speaker 1: like in a database, Like can they just send you

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Speaker 1: a spreadsheet? Like? What is it? What does it take

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Speaker 1: such meticulous mining and paying some specialists. It seems like

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Speaker 1: that's the whole point of keeping these kinds of records

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Speaker 1: right exactly. And I know that there's I'm not the

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Speaker 1: sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to some things.

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Speaker 1: So I reached out to some investigative journalists I know,

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Speaker 1: and I threw this by him and I said, do

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Speaker 1: you believe they don't have a list? I could not

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Speaker 1: find one journalist that said there's there's no possibility in

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Speaker 1: this world that the National Park Service Police doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a list of missing people in their jurisdiction. Everyone says

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Speaker 1: that they do. They just don't want to give it up.

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Speaker 1: But the rationale behind this, and since then, this was

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Speaker 1: six seven years ago now is I've had several people

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Speaker 1: like yourself step up and say, hey, we will buy

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Speaker 1: the National Park Service a laptop and put Excel on it.

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Speaker 1: And every month there's called a month. There's a monthly

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Speaker 1: report that comes in from every National Park Service property

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Speaker 1: from their superintendent of the highlights of what happens in

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Speaker 1: that park. Somebody goes missing, somebody gets killed, whatever. Well,

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Speaker 1: they could have an intern which costs nothing, screen those

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Speaker 1: monthly documents and put every person's name on an Excel

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Speaker 1: spreadsheet on that laptop. It would essentially cost them nothing.

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Speaker 1: They chose not to publicize this. Now, Interestingly, just within

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Speaker 1: the last month, they've started to put one or two

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Speaker 1: people on their website from each park that's gone missing.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to understand the rationale why they're putting those

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Speaker 1: people up as missing but not the vast numbers that

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Speaker 1: are missing in the park. Namely, the people that they're

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Speaker 1: putting missing are people I've already written about or talked about.

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Speaker 1: But they're not putting up all of them, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know why. And it's frustrating because it's such a

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Speaker 1: roadblock to future work. The amount of time and energy

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Speaker 1: we have to expand to find a case that's thirty

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Speaker 1: or forty years old where somebody's never been found, That

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Speaker 1: energy is huge, but they're forcing us to do it

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Speaker 1: because they won't help at all. And this, uh, this

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Speaker 1: investigation just just for everyone in the audience. When when

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Speaker 1: we're talking about investigating a specific case, a specific case

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Speaker 1: of a missing person, this doesn't just involve, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: reading newspapers of the time. This also involves heavy research

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Speaker 1: into the staff of the part at the time, the

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Speaker 1: rangers that would be there, any local law enforcement. This

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Speaker 1: can include family interviews. This is a exhaustive process. Not

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Speaker 1: to mention any kind of search and rescue efforts that

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Speaker 1: you know are deployed, as as depicted in your film.

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Speaker 1: Um would I'd like to to go into maybe a

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Speaker 1: couple of the cases that are in the film, when

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Speaker 1: in particular the case of a young boy who turned

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Speaker 1: up missing UM and was surrounded mainly by family and

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Speaker 1: I think a family friend and his grandfather, and it's

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Speaker 1: as you described, you know, a very quick disappearance where

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Speaker 1: the child was following his parents to like a fishing

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Speaker 1: creek and then they turned around and he was gone.

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Speaker 1: And they stayed at the campground for three days with

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Speaker 1: police and you know, local uh citizens um volunteering to

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Speaker 1: do a kind of search party, and nothing came of

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Speaker 1: this ultimately, and it ultimately the case was dropped. But

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Speaker 1: how how does this why was this case such an

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Speaker 1: interesting one that you chose to kind of feature it

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Speaker 1: as sort of like a bookend in your film? Um?

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Speaker 1: How is this kind of like an interesting case study

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Speaker 1: of these types of situations? So if you, if you

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Speaker 1: by chance read five missing persons cases, you're you're probably

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Speaker 1: going to find five sets of circumstances that are totally

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Speaker 1: different without a lot of commonality. Now you read five

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Speaker 1: thousand missing person's cases, and soon you're going to see

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Speaker 1: that specific points start to jump out at you, and

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Speaker 1: certain commonalities keep replicating themselves time after time. If you

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Speaker 1: look at just one case, like the Coon's case, your

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Speaker 1: your intuition may go to, oh, you know, it was

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Speaker 1: a human interaction. It was some type of crime committed

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Speaker 1: against the child by someone maybe at the campsite or

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Speaker 1: someone nearby. I know who did this, blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at hundreds of missing persons cases,

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Speaker 1: you see that law enforcement caused peepe calls people at

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Speaker 1: the scene suspects many times when they get frustrated that

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Speaker 1: they can't solve it. In the Coon's case, the child

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Speaker 1: has never been found, and it just so happened that

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Speaker 1: we had a crew up there as this was evolving

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Speaker 1: and occurring. Now, initially you're gonna you're gonna think, well,

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Speaker 1: this isn't so interesting, except there's so many side lights

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Speaker 1: to a missing person's case that people don't understand and

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Speaker 1: how law enforcement goes about investigating those cases. And as

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Speaker 1: for me, I was involved in a case in northern

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Speaker 1: California where a girl disappeared. Well, the FBI was involved,

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Speaker 1: just like they weren't the Coon's case, and they named

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Speaker 1: the father as a suspect in this case. I was.

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Speaker 1: I was there on and it wasn't for weeks until

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Speaker 1: they finally said, you know what, the the father is

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Speaker 1: in a suspect, and then weeks later they end up

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Speaker 1: arresting a suspect charging with murder and he's convicted. So

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Speaker 1: people that are named suspects aren't necessarily the ones who

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Speaker 1: did it, and if they were, they would have filed charges.

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Speaker 1: In the coon's case, there's not one piece of heart

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Speaker 1: evidence to point to anyone committing any of this crime.

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Speaker 1: Yet if you look at that case and you compare

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Speaker 1: it to the profile points that we've established in six

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Speaker 1: years of seven years of research, you'll notice that it's

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Speaker 1: a dead on match. Happens at a remote campsite. The

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Speaker 1: parents state, they turn around, the child's gone. They bring

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Speaker 1: in canines. The canines can't pick up a scent. They

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Speaker 1: bring in cadaver dogs that smell the trucks and the

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Speaker 1: vehicles that were at the scene in case they transported

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Speaker 1: dead body. They can't pick up a scent. All of

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Speaker 1: these things start to lead that Wow, you know what,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the profile points that are established in

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Speaker 1: the Missing four on one books after reading thousands of cases.

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Speaker 1: The handlers bring a dog to the scene the dog

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Speaker 1: turns around, sits down, doesn't want to can't find a scent.

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Speaker 1: They bring in cadaver dogs, cadaver dogters look around, they

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Speaker 1: can't find a scent. The parents say, you know, the

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Speaker 1: child was right here, we turned around, it was gone. Well,

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Speaker 1: it sounds stupid when you first hear that, but the

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Speaker 1: reality of it is it's happened hundreds and hundreds of

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Speaker 1: times if you read the books, and law enforcement when

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Speaker 1: they get frustrated, they'll say, well, the only thing we

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Speaker 1: can think of is that the parents or the relatives

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Speaker 1: or somebody in the area must have taken the kid.

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Speaker 1: But there's no evidence. And like I keep saying, if

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Speaker 1: you're going to accuse somebody, why don't you arrest them,

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Speaker 1: Because there's nobody that's been found. There's nobody that's been arrested.

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Speaker 1: It's a big who done it? And I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: say that nobody at the theme did do it. I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying right now, I'm I'm somebody who lives in

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Speaker 1: the world of facts, and there's no hard facts to

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Speaker 1: suspect anybody there of doing anything other than law enforcement

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Speaker 1: calling them a suspect. And they do say, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: they failed the polygraph. Well, I've heard that hundreds of

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Speaker 1: times in other cases where they called other people's suspects

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Speaker 1: and they were later cleared a lot of reasons for

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Speaker 1: failing in polygraph and that's a that's one of the

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Speaker 1: main reasons why polygraphs aren't allowed in criminal court. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's uh. I'm really glad that you mentioned that part, David,

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Speaker 1: because more and more, Um, I think more and more

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Speaker 1: people are aware that polygraphs are I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say pseudo science, but there's in exact science perhaps, and

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Speaker 1: in exact science there is very there's way more compelling

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Speaker 1: arguments against polygraph being used because people get nervous, right, Uh.

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Speaker 1: There are also various ways to trigger polygraph in the

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Speaker 1: worst case scenario. This may be an interesting insight, ladies

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Speaker 1: and gentlemen, the idea that law enforcement might name innocent

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Speaker 1: bystanders as suspects, perhaps out of frustration and with some

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Speaker 1: of these commonalities that you're describing here, David, that the

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Speaker 1: cadaver dogs catch no scent, the child disappeared promptly. Um.

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Speaker 1: We've we've found some other commonalities that you have listed

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Speaker 1: in the missing four one one series, and we'd like

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Speaker 1: to explore those in depth after a word from our

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Speaker 1: sponsor and we've returned. Before the break, we talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the additional commonalities that can be found

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Speaker 1: or profile points here and in Missing America four one

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Speaker 1: one North America and beyond. Uh, David, we have a

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Speaker 1: we have a couple of commonalities here that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to spend some time asking you about. But one thing

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Speaker 1: that really really stuck out, both in our interview today

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Speaker 1: and when we had spoken a little bit earlier, was

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Speaker 1: that when when children, specifically when when children have disappeared

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Speaker 1: in various cases, they are they are found in these

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Speaker 1: incredible places or their their bodies are recovered in places

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Speaker 1: that are extremely anomalous. Could you tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about this factor this phenomenon. Sure? If one of

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Speaker 1: the first of all, one of the things that I

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Speaker 1: think the audience needs to understand is that the vetting

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Speaker 1: factor that we use before we'll even include a case

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Speaker 1: in any of the books or in any of the studies.

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Speaker 1: One of the first things is is that if there's

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Speaker 1: any evidence of human intervention and abduction, any criminal activity,

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Speaker 1: we won't use it. If there for adult or child,

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Speaker 1: if it's a voluntary disappearance, meaning mental health is at stake,

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Speaker 1: we won't use it. If there's any evidence of animal predation,

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Speaker 1: you know, animal attack, killing, dragging away, anything like that,

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Speaker 1: we won't use the case. So what we're left with

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Speaker 1: is a series of who done it, and in of

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Speaker 1: the cases or more maybe there's never even a suspect

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Speaker 1: named in the case. The coon's case was one of

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Speaker 1: those weird cases where we happened to be there while

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Speaker 1: it was happening and we filmed it. Now, there's another

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Speaker 1: case in the film where a two year old child

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Speaker 1: walking along a mountain trail, supposedly being watched by some

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Speaker 1: friends of the family, he gets out of their sight,

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Speaker 1: he disappears. Four years later. The remains are found fifty

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Speaker 1: ft above the trail. Now, myself and a film crew

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Speaker 1: went up there and essentially had to do it on

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Speaker 1: our hands and knees. We probably should have had ropes.

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Speaker 1: It was so steep to get to the location where

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Speaker 1: those remains were found. Now, when I give up speech

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Speaker 1: in front of a conference, I asked people in the audience,

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Speaker 1: I say, so, how many of your parents? And I

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Speaker 1: asked him if your child, at two years old was

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Speaker 1: left in the woods and you walked away. What do

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Speaker 1: you think that child would do? And some of the

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Speaker 1: parents say, well, at years old, that child would have

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Speaker 1: played in the dirt and probably gone to sleep right there.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe they would have walked downhill fifty yards, found

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Speaker 1: something interesting, sat down, played, and gone to sleep. Then

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Speaker 1: I asked him, well, how many would have walked up hill?

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Speaker 1: You know hard anybody ever raises their hand, they think

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Speaker 1: on my child, and there's no way would walk uphill

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Speaker 1: and exert energy. And then I put a table up

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Speaker 1: that's in one of my books that shows many, many

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Speaker 1: cases where small children are found at phenomenal heights from

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Speaker 1: where they were last seen. And when those children are found,

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Speaker 1: there's no evidence of any animal attack, any human attack.

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Speaker 1: They're just found there deceased. Many times at autopsy they

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Speaker 1: can't even determine the case the cause of death, which

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Speaker 1: is unusual. There's also a table I show phenomenal distances

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Speaker 1: that small children take. And also in the movie, there's

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Speaker 1: a case where a two year old disappears in this

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Speaker 1: rural area and nineteen hours later they're found twelve miles

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Speaker 1: away over two mountain ranges, barely alive, and the person

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Speaker 1: when interviewed as a small age. Of course, they don't

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Speaker 1: remember anything. Now, the reason these are important is it's

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Speaker 1: easy for us as adults to understand that small children

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Speaker 1: covering phenomenal distances is highly unusual. Small children going up

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Speaker 1: in phenomenal heights is highly unusual and probably not not

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Speaker 1: it probably can't occur. So how do they get there? Well,

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Speaker 1: these incidents occur in areas where there aren't other people.

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Speaker 1: It's not like somebody could have taken the kid and

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Speaker 1: done this, or carry them or forcibly abducted them. These

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Speaker 1: are in areas that are really remote when these things

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Speaker 1: occur and there's no evidence. Remember there's no dogs that

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Speaker 1: contractice because that's the most common profile point. Canines can't

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Speaker 1: track the victim or professional trackers that are brought in

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Speaker 1: find no tracks leaving that scene. So how does the

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Speaker 1: victim get from point to point? That's the commonality that

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Speaker 1: nobody can understand, and that's probably one of the most

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Speaker 1: concerning points that I get from readers is how does

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Speaker 1: this happen? And where does this information come from? It

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Speaker 1: comes from search and rescue reports, law enforcement reports, missing

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Speaker 1: person reports, interviews with families, interviews with law enforcement people,

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Speaker 1: or search and rescue people, and that's where most of

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Speaker 1: the information gets gleaned from Dave. In one of the

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Speaker 1: cases that you had just mentioned where the child was

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Speaker 1: carried up to a height that you guys had to

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Speaker 1: travel use ropes to travel to. In in the film,

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Speaker 1: it mentions that at least the law enforcement that was interviewed,

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Speaker 1: they seem to mention that they believed it was an

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Speaker 1: animal attack. When you're when you're going through and researching

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Speaker 1: these cases, because you guys don't, you don't look at

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Speaker 1: cases that are definitely animal attacks. So it sounds like

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Speaker 1: law enforcement is trying to make pieces fit um to

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Speaker 1: solve a case. Great point, guys, great point. So initially,

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Speaker 1: when we looked at this case, exactly correct the press reports,

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Speaker 1: the interviews the sheriff gave said oh yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a mountain lion attack. So initially we kind of stepped

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Speaker 1: back and look at that, and then we started to

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Speaker 1: dig deeper. Well, the victims dad wasn't at the scene

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Speaker 1: and always thought that this was unusual. Well, at the

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Speaker 1: press conference on this event, search and rescue people that

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Speaker 1: had gone up there and recovered the remains had told

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Speaker 1: the father that they found the pants of the child

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Speaker 1: turned inside out at the scene, Yet at the press conference,

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Speaker 1: the sheriff told them, hey, put the pants right side

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Speaker 1: out and let's show him. And when the dad asked

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Speaker 1: the sheriff why he did that, he walked away from

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Speaker 1: the father. So the dad takes all the evidence and

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Speaker 1: all the reports and presents it to multiple mountain lion

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Speaker 1: experts and said, hey, what's your opinion about what happened

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Speaker 1: to my son? And each of them said, well, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't an animal predation case, and I don't know why

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Speaker 1: the sheriff said it. And on all of the clothing

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Speaker 1: that was found, there was no blood on any of

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Speaker 1: the clothing. So the sheriff made a statement to call

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Speaker 1: the community to make it appear as though they had

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Speaker 1: the answers, and in reality, there were no answers. And

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Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta lean on the experts and maybe

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Speaker 1: not one. And the father understood this. That's why he

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Speaker 1: went to multiple and independently they all said the same thing.

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Speaker 1: So it you know, that case is is a huge

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Speaker 1: Who done it? What happened to this child? How did

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Speaker 1: they get five fifty ft up the side of this cliff? Essentially,

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Speaker 1: why wasn't there blood on the clothing. Why were the

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Speaker 1: pants turned inside out? It goes on and on. Was

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Speaker 1: that the case where they also found like a single tooth.

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Speaker 1: They found a single tooth on top of a log

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Speaker 1: in at about nine feet in elevation. Horrendous winters, blazing gales,

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Speaker 1: snow up to ten feet in that area. How did

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Speaker 1: the too skin on top of the log and was

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Speaker 1: sitting there. It's also like there's a crime scene photo

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Speaker 1: in the film and it literally is just sitting there.

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Speaker 1: There's no blood, It looks completely clean. Like that's just

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Speaker 1: very unsettled. It was it was four years later, right,

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Speaker 1: or something to that effect, when the body was recovered.

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Speaker 1: Just just to be Devil's advocate, I'm assuming there was

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Speaker 1: there were other animals who came along and took care

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00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: of the body. Unfortunately. One interesting factor that's explored in

430
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: in the books as well is the concept of geographical

431
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 1: clusters and an unusual number of disappearances happening over time

432
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: in UH specific regions or areas. Could you could you

433
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about this concept and how

434
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: you and your team discovered it. Sure, When when I

435
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: was in law enforcement, I worked a couple of big

436
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: teams that would work serial rapists, robbers burglars, and one

437
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: of the things we used was a map, a pin map,

438
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 1: and every time a crime occurred, we'd put a pin

439
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: on the map, and we usually knew that the first

440
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: crime that somebody did was usually the closest to their home,

441
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: and they would start to work outwards. And as I

442
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: started reading through hundreds of reports, a few locations just

443
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: stuck out in my mind. Hey, I read about this before.

444
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: So after a couple of years, I started to have

445
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 1: piles of reports in my living room of different location

446
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: since and as time went on, certain piles got larger,

447
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: and eventually I got more piles. Now, I don't like

448
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: to say this as a concept, because I don't deal

449
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: in concept and theories. Two things you want to find

450
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: in any of my books is any theories about what's

451
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 1: happening or any possible suspects as to what did this.

452
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: I lay out a series of facts, and facts are

453
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: the most important thing you're going to read about, and

454
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: in a lot of books you're gonna hear a lot

455
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: of wild theories and conjecture. I don't lay that out.

456
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: I'd let you come to whatever decision you want to

457
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: come to. Even though the facts that you read are

458
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: highly strange. There are factually fifty nine geographical clusters of

459
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: missing people in North America to fit the profile points

460
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: that we laid out, And the biggest cluster of missing

461
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: people in the world is your Semite National Park. Now,

462
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: some people may say, well, yeah, but you know I

463
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: probably has the most visitors. Well yeah, but if you

464
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: look at the circumstances that we've laid after these missing people,

465
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: I don't care if it's downtown Paris or downtown New York.

466
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: That's strange that a lot of these people have never

467
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: been found, even though they disappeared in an area where

468
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: they should have been found. Canines should have been able

469
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: to track. There should have been an evidence track or

470
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: professional trackers to be able to follow these people. Um,

471
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: these warn't voluntary disappearances. There were no mental health issues.

472
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: Where are these people now? One of the predominant points

473
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about yet, but boulders, boulder fields, and

474
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: granite are somehow involved in this, meaning bodies are found

475
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: in boulder fields. People disappear in boulder fields or around granite.

476
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: And that's another one of those points that came out

477
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: after reading hundreds and hundreds. Well, where's probably the biggest

478
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: boulder field and granite location in the world other than Yosemite.

479
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: And I know that's strange, But when you look at

480
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: the surrounding area and how many people have disappeared in

481
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: and around Yosemite, coupled with other locations in the world

482
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: that also have these boulder fields or granted, it starts

483
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: to look odd. Now, if we go back to the

484
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: Count's case, two feet from where do you or disappeared

485
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: is a giant boulder field, and we show it in

486
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: the film and it's one of those subtle notes that

487
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: if you follow the books, you're gonna say, oh, yeah,

488
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: that's right. There is that giant boulderfield that no one

489
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: wants to discuss right above where he disappeared. Now, he

490
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: hasn't been found, and I don't know the relationship that

491
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: could be could exist there, but it's there. You mentioned

492
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: in the film another commonality that we haven't discussed yet

493
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: that many of these um folks who disappeared had some

494
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: sort of physical disability. Um, can you go into that

495
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: a little bit. A lot of times it's not something

496
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: that's evident. You know, the person isn't limping down the trail,

497
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: But a lot of times the victim may have autism

498
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: or dementia, and again it's not something obvious and you

499
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: would say, well, yeah, you know, maybe somebody with autism

500
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: or dementia that that seems a reasonable way to disappear.

501
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: They didn't have all their mental capabilities and they vanished. Again,

502
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: sticking with those profile points, why can't we track those

503
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: people down to where they are located? Where did they go?

504
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: How come they're not found? It doesn't make sense. Now,

505
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: on the opposite set side of that intellectual spectrum, I've

506
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: also written about people with phenomenal intellectual capabilities that have vanished.

507
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: One of those sub types is physicists. There's a series

508
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: of physicists that have disappeared under strange, strange circumstances and

509
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: never been found. When I'm disappeared in the mountains above

510
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, was taking a hike with some people on

511
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: the trail. He didn't feel too well. He stopped, and

512
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: the person at the back of the line stopped as

513
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: well with him, and he didn't feel good. So these

514
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: two guys sat there and the guide at the back

515
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: of the line said, well, I'm gonna wait a couple

516
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 1: of seconds you can go ahead. And this physicist was

517
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: visiting from Germany, and he took off down the trail,

518
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: and eventually the guy got back to the lodge and

519
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: the physicist wasn't at the watch huge search of the

520
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: entire area for weeks. The German physicist was never found.

521
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: And this is another of the subgroups. Is Germans or

522
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: people with German heritage seemed to disappear at a higher

523
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: percentage than the norm. But German physicists disappeared in a

524
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: much higher percentage than anyone else in the US. It's

525
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: a very very unusual subgroup. I would say unusual for sure.

526
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: Um oh gosh, I see my mind just reels, and

527
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: I want to start asking you about reasons like why

528
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: why would a bunch of physicists go missing? I so

529
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: badly want to get into some of the allegations and

530
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: concepts have been floated to us over the years about

531
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: these kind of things. Well, I'll tell you that. So

532
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: there's been six missing four one one books aboutes written.

533
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: And I probably I've said this many times in interviews,

534
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: but if you listen to every interview I've ever done,

535
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: you're probably gonna glean maybe three to five pc of

536
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: what's in the books. And we have a lot of tables,

537
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: a lot of graphs, a lot of data. We have

538
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: lists that I encourage people to look at in the

539
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: back of the books and try to make some sense

540
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: out of it. And the truth is is that of

541
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: the people who have read the six books, and there's

542
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: been hundreds, if not thousands, tens of thousands, nobody has

543
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: ever read the six books and come back to me

544
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 1: and said, I have the formula, I understand what happened.

545
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: Here's what it is. Everyone. I could say, probably I've

546
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: had five hundred people or a thousand people right to

547
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: me in the last three years and say, I've watched

548
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: all your videos. I know exactly what it is, and

549
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: you know, off the top of my head, I can

550
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: answer them quickly and said, yeah, but what about this, this, this,

551
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: and this, Oh, I didn't know about that, or what

552
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: about this, this, this, and this, Oh, I didn't even

553
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: know about that. And the truth is is that the

554
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: people that have read the six books will come back

555
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: and say, you know, I initially thought that it might

556
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: have been a but then this, this, and this happened,

557
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: and so it can't be a. And yet all the

558
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: profile points are consistent, so we know that they have

559
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: to be interrelated. The only thing I will say is

560
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: that I'm sitting in my room right now looking at

561
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: the cluster map, is that approximately of all of the

562
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: clusters are within a hundred and fifty miles of a

563
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: huge body of water. Namely, the clusters run from north

564
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: to south through the Cascades and down through the Sierras

565
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: on the west coast, and then from north to south

566
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: along the East coast through the Appalachian Appalachian Trail, and

567
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: then there's clusters all the way around the Great Lake.

568
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: Now there's one strand of clusters that kind of goes

569
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: around the top of Idaho, Montana and then down through

570
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: the Rockies, but it's pretty scattered, and they don't have

571
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: the bulk of the numbers that the east and the

572
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: West coast and the Great Lakes have. The water is

573
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: an important feature, and I don't minimize that at all,

574
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: and I think about that all the time. Why are

575
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: the clusters in close proximity to water, and what's the

576
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 1: relationship to that, and why is that so? And then

577
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: once you look at the cluster map, you'll notice that

578
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: right in the middle of the US north Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas,

579
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: that swath north to south through the middle or the

580
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 1: furthest points from the ocean have almost no missing people

581
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: that fit our criteria. It's a very strange sight. So

582
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: when you start to think about all this, uh, you know,

583
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,479
Speaker 1: I've had twenty people that have sent the thesis length

584
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: documents saying this is what I think it is. But again,

585
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: it's somebody who's ever read the books, and easily after

586
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: the first couple of pages, I can say, well, yeah,

587
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: but it's not this because of this, this, this, and this,

588
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: and I don't minimize the people writing in but you

589
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: have to understand that unless you read the six books,

590
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: you're never going to glean all of the options and

591
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: all of the elements that come into play that do

592
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: match the criteria. So I mean, you you say that

593
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: it's not your purpose to kind of conjecture of what

594
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: the what actually is happening here. You're just kind of

595
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: like laying out some facts and letting the reader make

596
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: their own assumptions or make their own connections. And in

597
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: order to do that, you know, you you kind of

598
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: need to really dig into the totality of these cases.

599
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: But I mean, you must have some ideas. I mean,

600
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: I think, you know, our listeners would be very interested

601
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: to talk about that and to kind of get a

602
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: sense of what are some of the options here in

603
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 1: what realm are we talking of. So if I had

604
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: a good option, I tell you, and if I heard

605
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: one out there, I tell you. And every time I

606
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: hear somebody say, well, tell me what you think, well,

607
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: I'm interested you tell me what you think. Because just

608
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: because I'm a good accumulator of data doesn't mean that

609
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: I know what all those options are and what what

610
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: all those options mean. And what I mean by that

611
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: is that I may be really good at collecting data

612
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: on missing people, siphoning the data, getting it down to

613
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: a subgroup that all has commonalities. But you guys know

614
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: that there's probably fifty things in the world that are strange,

615
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: unusual and are looked at as predatorial. But each one

616
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: of those groups has an expert. I'm not the expert

617
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: on all those fifty areas. I'm focusing in on one thing. Yeah,

618
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: will send me information in and all of a sudden

619
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: a light bulb goes off to me and says, this

620
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: is it. Well, I'm for sure I'm going to say something.

621
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: But I'm not going to say something stupid and make

622
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 1: myself and my team look like a bung of idiots

623
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: just to appease somebody who wants to know my opinion

624
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: or unsupported look at something. There's the way that's going

625
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: to happen. That's how people in research lose their credibility.

626
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,479
Speaker 1: And when I'm dealing with families of missing people, I'm

627
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: not going to let them go online and look at

628
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: me saying something stupid and unsupported and then lose my

629
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: credibility in that world that's going to happen. I'm gonna

630
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: lay I'm going to continue to lay up the facts.

631
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,479
Speaker 1: If I find a fact that matches what I'm doing,

632
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be the first one that's going to step

633
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: up and scream to the world what's happening. But until

634
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: that point happens, I'm still doing research, especially considering the

635
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: way that the National Parks, you know, we're so hesitant

636
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: to give out this kind of information and almost seems

637
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: like it unsettles people in law enforcement capacity or in

638
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: you know, government capacity, like to even consider that there

639
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 1: might be some kind of connection in these cases. I

640
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: just wonder why, you know, if you've got such little

641
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: help from the National Parks. Folks, do you get a

642
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: sense that law enforcement are also holding something back or

643
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: not giving you all of the information that they have

644
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 1: access to. That's a good question. Um. I think if

645
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: you watch the movie, you're going to see that there's

646
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: several different law for some people in it. And part

647
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: of my job is to keep credibility in that world,

648
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 1: because once I lose my credibility, they won't cooperate anymore. Now,

649
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: just because the National Park Services and cooperating doesn't mean

650
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: general law enforcement won't. And there is a group of

651
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: people out there that are willing to look at the

652
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: data and essentially look at facts. And once you delve

653
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: into it and you realize that Dave politis never said

654
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: of what is alleged on YouTube and other various sites.

655
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: He sticks just to the facts and all these other

656
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: allegations about he said this or he thinks that, but

657
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: he's never said it. So law enforcement watches these things,

658
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: and if some of them believe I said some of

659
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: these wild things that people allege, they won't want to

660
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: talk to me and they won't give me credibility. And

661
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: it hurts with the victims families that need help. Now

662
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 1: there is a group out there that knows exactly what

663
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,479
Speaker 1: I'm about, and they've read the books, and I've given

664
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: a talk in front of the largest search and rescue

665
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: organization in the world about this. And at the end

666
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: of my talk there were there two Alaska st trooper

667
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 1: sitting at the back of the audience and what I'm

668
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: stood up and said, you know, Dave, you're saying exactly

669
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: what we already know, and we've worked so many of

670
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 1: these type of cases and we have no idea what's

671
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: going on, but you're saying what everyone doesn't want to

672
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: talk about. And the guy said, thanks you, thanks for

673
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 1: talking about and he sits down. Now, since that, I've

674
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: had many search and rescue people contact me and said,

675
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: you know, that's exactly the truth. This, this is what

676
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: happened to us on this search. And in fact, in

677
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: the movie we interview some search and rescue people that

678
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: talked about a super strange case. And it's just an

679
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: example that once you understand what we're all about, and

680
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: you understand that, hey, we're about the facts, that there's

681
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: a lot more of this going on than we all

682
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 1: want to talk about, and the local news probably isn't

683
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: going to talk about it because it's uncomfortable, but it happens.

684
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: So it sounds as if one thing that maybe occurring

685
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: is that individual government employees, like individual rangers or state

686
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: troopers are and are approaching you and your team with

687
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: their own experiences, but there's a larger system at play

688
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: which is much less cooperative. Would you would you say

689
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: that's that's a fair assessment. I think you hit the

690
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: nail on the head um a few times. I've talked

691
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: about this, but a friend of mine and I were

692
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: in a national park and we're at a substation and

693
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: there's a group of older men sitting around this table

694
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: talking and you can tell that there are a couple

695
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: of current park rangers and a couple of apparently retired ones,

696
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: and this one guy was talking at length, and I

697
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: told my friends, said, we're gonnait until this guy leaves

698
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: the room. I want to talk to him. And after

699
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: about forty five minutes he gets up and in the

700
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: parking lot, I approached him and I said, I'm retired

701
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: law enforcement and I heard you in there, and I

702
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: want to talk to He goes, yeah, sure. He explained

703
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 1: to me that in the Park Service, the detectives for

704
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: the National Park Police are called special agents, and there's

705
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: usually about one special agent for every two or three

706
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: national parks. Yosemite has a couple of special agents assigned

707
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: just to Yosemite, but normally it's one or two per

708
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: every national park. And they're like the detectives, and they

709
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: follow up on cases. And I explained with the National

710
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: Park System had done to me in abstracting us getting

711
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: data and information, and and I asked him, I said,

712
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 1: can you give me any insight as to why this

713
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: is going on? And the guy looked at me dead

714
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: in the eye and he goes, well, Dave, I'm a

715
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: retired special agent, spent thirty years with the Park Service,

716
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: and now I know exactly what's going on. It's called

717
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: the lack of integrity, and certain people in the National

718
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: Park Service police and in their administration have a complete

719
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: lack of integrity and they won't do the right thing.

720
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,280
Speaker 1: And he says, it's been that way for many years,

721
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: and I'll probably be that way from anymore. And this

722
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: is not an indictment of the National Park rangers that

723
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: the public sees every day. You know, they're they're great people.

724
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: They're doing God's work out there. This is a selected

725
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: group at the higher echelon. They're making these decisions and

726
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: making these policies. And when I talked to this retired

727
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: special agent, we've talked for a long time, and it

728
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 1: was enlightening because it was his perspective, being that insider,

729
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: that this is really what's going on. And then he

730
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: pointed us to a web a couple of websites that

731
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: were maintained by other park rangers that talked about the

732
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: discrimination that was going on to them, their inability to

733
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: get reports when they filed Freedom of Information Act reports,

734
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: and it was it was sort of a relief, knowing, Wow,

735
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: this isn't just happening to me, this is happening to

736
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: people inside their organization. And if you go to our

737
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: website can AM like Canadian American can am missing dot com,

738
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: there's links to all these things and you can see

739
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 1: for yourself that this really is happening. And the Park

740
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: Service has done a phenomenal job kind of portraying themselves

741
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: as a holier than that organization that Yogi the bears

742
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: the best friend. But when you look at the underlining

743
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: of it, it's not anything like the publicity says it

744
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: is it's totally different. And with this in mind, we're

745
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 1: going to going to explore a little bit about various allegations,

746
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: and we're going to explore the future of missing for

747
00:44:45,719 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: one one after a word from our sponsors, and we

748
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: have returned. So, David, one thing that you said that

749
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: I think really made our ears perk up collectively is

750
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: you mentioned that in the online sphere, I guess, uh

751
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: that there have been people who are spreading what we

752
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 1: would call it, uh, misinformation or perhaps misrepresenting what this

753
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: endeavor is actually about. Um, could you could you tell

754
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: us a little bit about that misinformation because we want

755
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 1: to make sure our audience has has it clear. I

756
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: think we've I think we've outlined pretty well, Um, some

757
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: of the process for which cases to explore the commonalities,

758
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,879
Speaker 1: right discovered the fact that this is aggregation of facts. Right,

759
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: So what what are these what are these people saying

760
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: that is misinformation? Remember one thing is that I have

761
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: never and I would never name anything as a suspect

762
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 1: or come up with any theory about what's happening unless

763
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: I could support it, and I never have. And there's

764
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people that say, oh, he he said this,

765
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: or he meant that if I say something or I

766
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 1: meant something, I just come out and say it. And

767
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people and a lot of

768
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: organizations out there that represent this, the fringe gentleman of

769
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: cryptozoology or whatever, want to align themselves with credible research,

770
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: and so they want to align themselves with what we're

771
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: doing in the hopes that it will give them additional credibility.

772
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 1: And the truth of the matter is, if you read

773
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: the books, you'll know I've never done any of that.

774
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: And whether it's a lot of people say well must

775
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: maybe it's a group of National Parks and Boys or

776
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: US for Service employees that want to discredit me so

777
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: that the mainstream of society won't read what we've put together.

778
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: You know, Oh, it's just some cook he's saying some

779
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: things that can't be supported. I've yet to find anybody

780
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: that has ever read the data in that those books

781
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: that has attacked us, because they read for themselves, and

782
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: they're all listed where we got the sources, where the

783
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: information came from, and you can go there and read

784
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 1: it for yourself. So I mean, it's thousands and thousands

785
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: of hours of research and the gleaning of data that

786
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: has and that has taken us to where we are today.

787
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: Now why the attacks occur, Well, I mean I've had

788
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: other investigative journalists tell me, Dave, it just comes with

789
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,919
Speaker 1: the territory. When you come out with information that makes

790
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: the Department of the Interior look like fools or makes

791
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: a park service look in apt, you're going to get

792
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: attacks and it just comes. It comes with the territory.

793
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: I understand that. Now. I didn't at the beginning, but

794
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: I get it now. One thing that we always like

795
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: to investigator, that we feel as part of our due

796
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: diligence on the show is to look at the allegations like,

797
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: as you said, the misinformation, because it's something it's like

798
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: out to me. You know, I would see criticism of

799
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: something on online regarding missing for one one, and then

800
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: I would go back and check out the books I

801
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 1: had read. And you know, honestly, I had looked through

802
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: the books trying to see if there were conclusions, and

803
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: I can I can assure you, ladies and gentlemen, that

804
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: there there aren't. This is a this compilations of you know,

805
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: case research on the skeptical side for the more skeptical

806
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: in our audience. One thing that interested me immensely was

807
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: that I would read these investigations or presentations by you know,

808
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: people who would consider themselves the word we keep using

809
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: a skeptical more on the skeptic side. And one thing

810
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: that I thought was pretty fascinating was that most of

811
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: these people said in in their presentations, you know, they said, uh,

812
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: we looked at this and these are all genuine disappearances

813
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: and the facts are all correct, and sometimes quote unquote

814
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 1: Internet skeptics do a very poor job of applying critical thinking.

815
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: So I was I was impressed with that, and it

816
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: seems like the only real the only real bone of

817
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: contention I found from their side was that they were

818
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: saying they thought there were mundane explanations for these disappearances,

819
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: but they didn't say what those explanations might be. And

820
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: so then I started looking at, according to the data

821
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 1: we have, what are the most some of the most

822
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: common disappearance causes for people who are camping and stuff

823
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: like that. As you head, a lot of these things

824
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: don't seem to don't seem to fit into those easy explanations.

825
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: Are are you aware of this stuff? And how would

826
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: you respond to uh, the to those folks who maybe

827
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: in our audience or maybe just somewhere out there in

828
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: the ether, who would say that there are explicable causes

829
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: for this. Well, it's hard to respond to something like

830
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: that on such a general format. If you want to

831
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: talk about specifics, I'll go toe to toe with anybody

832
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: on any case in any book. But that's a that's

833
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: a common trait when someone tries to discredit anything. Well,

834
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: I think this, okay, how do you respond to that? Well, yeah,

835
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,760
Speaker 1: if we've gone through the vetting process of those points,

836
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 1: and Search and Rescue believes that none of those issues

837
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: are there, then why do you think something different? And

838
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: I would probably guess that the people saying these things,

839
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: I've never read one book they've you know, there's there's

840
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 1: something called plausible the liability, and a lot of these

841
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: people are uncomfortable with where the books may take them

842
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: because it takes you out of that comfort zone and

843
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: puts an aura on the wild environment that you know,

844
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: maybe this isn't Disneyland when you walk into a national park,

845
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: and maybe you're not as safe as you tend to

846
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: think you want to be. And if it's not a

847
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: mountain lion and it's not a bear attack, and it's

848
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: not a human attack, and it's not a voluntary disappearance.

849
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: What does that leave what what took the person? And

850
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: how did the person get from this point to this point?

851
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: And there was an animal predation and there's no injuries

852
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: to the body, and blah blah blah blah blah. Why

853
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: can't they figure out the cause of death in this case?

854
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: And you start to think these things, and it starts

855
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: to become a comfortable And I think a lot of

856
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: people's mentality is they need to go to the wilderness

857
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: to clean their mind. And if I take that away

858
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: from them, that cleansing and that freedom, and that that

859
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: great feeling they have when they go there, I've taken

860
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: something valuable from people. And I've heard this before. Now.

861
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 1: One of the things I tell everybody is that even

862
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: though I know what I've written, I still go to

863
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 1: the wilderness all the time, and I go, but I

864
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: go cautiously. I never go anywhere alone most of the time,

865
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: the vast, vast vast majority of time. If I do

866
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: go somewhere someplace alone, I always carry a personal locator beacon.

867
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: And the people in my books that I write about

868
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: would probably still be alive today if they had one. Namely,

869
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: it costs between a hundred and three hundred dollars. You

870
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: get lost, you pull the button. It sends a transmission

871
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: up to a satellite satellite SANSAS transmiss in the National

872
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, and they call the local search

873
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: and rescue where you're at because they have your GPS

874
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: corgans now, and they send a search party out to

875
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 1: find you. In the cases I've written about, I only

876
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,359
Speaker 1: have one case where somebody activated to transponder and wasn't

877
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 1: found alive. Only one that was just outside of Yosemite,

878
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: and he was found into really weird circumstances. I have

879
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: never had a case where somebody was carrying a firearm

880
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: and activated a transponder and was found de ceased. I've

881
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: never had one of those ever. So I mean, I

882
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: have a law enforcement background, so I carry a gun

883
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 1: all the time anyhow, But I carry a gun, a transponder,

884
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 1: a compass, a map. I always tell somebody where I'm going,

885
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: and I always checked the weather before I leave. I

886
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: think if people followed those easy to follow instructions, we

887
00:53:55,040 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: could eliminate disappearances by probably. I think that's really really,

888
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: you're really smart. Just just learn what you need to

889
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,399
Speaker 1: do when you're gonna go into the wilderness, even if

890
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: you're with another person, just make sure if you get separated,

891
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: you're gonna be okay. It gets a little dicey though,

892
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: when you're dealing with like a two year old, you know,

893
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: or a five year old. How do you teach your

894
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 1: two year old how to use a transponder? You know?

895
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: Keep the kid with you? Oh yeah, I will, obviously,

896
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 1: but it doesn't always happen. That's that's true. And this

897
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: this is a really important point. Whether you consider yourself

898
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: that an outdoor has been a survivalist, you know, or

899
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: whether you think occasionally, one day in the future you

900
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: might go camping. Um, these points are are crucial because

901
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: I think people forget easily. Um how that it's called

902
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: wilderness for a reason. Wild things can occur, and you

903
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: always practice the buddy system, always have and as as

904
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: David said, like always have somebody who is not out

905
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: in the woods with you, who knows where you're going

906
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 1: roughly and what time you're expected to be back. So,

907
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: speaking of survivalism, survivor Man makes an appearance in this movie.

908
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: So is Less Stroud. Somebody you have worked with before

909
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: in the past. How did that come about? Less read

910
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: the books and he got ahold of me and he said, Dave,

911
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 1: those books were phenomenal, and he goes, you're really onto something.

912
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 1: He goes, it's something I've thought about for a long time,

913
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 1: and he goes, if I can help you with anything

914
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: to promote this safety strategy and the reality of what

915
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: you've written about, let me know, I'll help you. Well,

916
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,280
Speaker 1: we got to time to film and we sat around

917
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: and had a discussion about how we could utilize his services,

918
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: and we said, well, how about if we utilize you

919
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 1: to try to replicate uh a path that a two

920
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 1: year old took through the night to get a certain

921
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: to get to a certain location. He goes, I'm on,

922
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 1: I'll do it. So we met him and true went

923
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: out with him overnight, and that he proved to me

924
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: that there's no way this two year old could have

925
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: done this. And I don't think that there's anyone in

926
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: the world more credible or more attuned to the environment

927
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: than Less Stroud. So I have never heard anybody who's

928
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: seen the film and watched that segment that said, oh,

929
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: you know that was saked, or you know everyone says, Wow,

930
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: if less couldn't do it, this two year old, sure

931
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: as that couldn't have done it. Oh Man, that is

932
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: a great point. So that particular case that he helped

933
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: out with occurred in the nineteen fifties. One of the

934
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: other clusterings that we saw are clusterings in time, like

935
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,800
Speaker 1: specific years where there were a lot of missing persons.

936
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: Can you go over some of some of those clusters

937
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: and when they occurred? So all the geographical clusters are

938
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: there now. Inside some of those clusters are are time clusters.

939
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: And there's certain periods of time in certain areas where

940
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: a clustering happened where there were multiple people over a

941
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,800
Speaker 1: short period of time that vanished. There's some in Michigan,

942
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: there's some on the West coast, and unless we laid

943
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 1: it out in a list format, it probably wouldn't be evident.

944
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: And there's also certain disappearance And somebody found this out

945
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: and sent it to us, and I can't take credit

946
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: for it. I think it was a guy in Finland

947
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: sent it to me and he said, Dave, do you

948
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: realize that three of the disappearances you've documented occurred when

949
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: ships and planes disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle. They disappeared

950
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: on the same day. I said, oh, that's weird, and

951
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: I looked and they verified what the guy said and

952
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: I said, it's sure, it's true. So you know, again,

953
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: there could be a lot more to these disappearances than coincidence.

954
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: And when you look at the numbers and you understand

955
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: that it's just not the U. S And Canada, but

956
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: there's nine other countries where this exact same thing is happening.

957
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: And the top countries besides the US and Canada are

958
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: Australia and the United Kingdom are the next two. So

959
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: it's very strange. Definitely strange. Yeah, So, David, I think

960
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: we're nearing the end here, But is there anything that

961
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about that kind of strikes you as

962
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: something important for listeners to understand about what what what

963
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: drove you to do this project and to continue kind

964
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: of pursuing these cases and what's the future? Yeah, and

965
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: what's next? Well, I think that once you meet these

966
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: families and you interact with them, and you realize that

967
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: they've been robust by almost every government agency in existence,

968
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: and that after that seven to ten days cycle, everyone

969
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: wants to forget about the disappearance. These people feel abandoned.

970
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 1: And I'm not just talking about the National Parks Service.

971
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Department of the Interior, of the U. S.

972
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: Force Service. It's just not one agency. It seems as

973
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: though nobody wants to even address the topic. And if

974
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: someone is a victim of a homicide or somebody dies

975
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: from an auto accident, there's finality to it. These people

976
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 1: have nothing. They don't know where their loved one died,

977
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: they don't have the remains they can go and visit.

978
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: They They're left with this open ended wound that nobody

979
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: wants to help them close. And you give them a

980
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: little attention, if you kind of give them a path

981
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: to get more details, if you let them know that

982
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: they're not alone. But there's hundreds and hundreds of other

983
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 1: families just like there's that also are being victimized the

984
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: same way. It helps them. And I've seen this happen

985
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: many times, and being friends with these families is super

986
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: important to me. And they're all great, great people who

987
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: are living a life of almost torture. And once you

988
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: understand that, it hurts. It hurts that our government doesn't

989
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: do more than help them. Now what's next is our

990
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 1: research is continuing and we're learning more things from victims, victims, families,

991
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: people who have read the books. I always at the

992
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: back of each book is my email. I tell people

993
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:29,439
Speaker 1: to write. I read every email everything I get, and

994
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: I encourage people to give me their thoughts after they

995
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 1: read the books. One of the things that we're doing

996
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: is in October of this year in Denver, we're having

997
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: what's called the Mile High Mystery Conference, and there's gonna

998
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 1: be a lot of people. They're speaking, and one of

999
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: the people that is speaking at the conference is Alan Attadero,

1000
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: who lost his son, and Alan someone who has tremendous insight.

1001
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: He's a high school teacher. He's very, very smart, and

1002
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: he speaks from the victim's perspective, and I think that individuals,

1003
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: once they hear him present, we'll say, Wow, there is

1004
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: really really something here. If you don't want to believe

1005
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 1: it from me, here it from Allen. I'll be presenting

1006
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: there as well some other researchers, but I think it's

1007
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: going to be one of the first times that the

1008
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 1: public is going to hear directly from a family member

1009
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: the truth and how they've been misdirected, misguided, and essentially

1010
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 1: lived years without any assistance. David, thank you so much

1011
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: for coming on the show today and giving us a

1012
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 1: in depth look at a phenomenon that many people, well

1013
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: more and more people are aware of, but many people

1014
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: may not have been aware of until they heard this interview.

1015
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: In the book series is missing for one one and

1016
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: the documentary is out as we record this episode today.

1017
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: You can get it right now on Amazon Video to stream,

1018
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: or you can buy the thing and have it forever.

1019
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: So David, thank you one more time for coming on

1020
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 1: the show and sharing your research with us. UM. We

1021
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: really appreciate it, guys. I appreciate the opportunity to speak

1022
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: for the families and from our research, and glad to

1023
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 1: come back anytime. Awesome, Thank you so much, Thank you

1024
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 1: so much. And here we are broadcasting from the future

1025
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: to reflect on this interview that you have just heard,

1026
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: and you know we've actually all just heard as well

1027
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: listening back to it. UM, I don't know what did

1028
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: you guys think? I thought the Mr Pliz that's some

1029
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: really interesting points about maybe not necessarily answers, but at

1030
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: least these patterns that he sees and organizes, which is

1031
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: no small task. You know. He mentioned that he was

1032
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: sitting in a room while he's talking to us, and

1033
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: it has in that room there's a map that has

1034
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: all the clusters of disappearances throughout North America. And I

1035
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: just imagine David existing that world for so long. Um,

1036
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: he sees a whole different picture than I can see

1037
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: as an outsider just reading a bit and watching a documentary. Yeah.

1038
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting that his response when when

1039
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: I had asked him, you know, what would you say

1040
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: to people who believe that these are not you know,

1041
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 1: that these are not related, right, And he did say, um,

1042
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: exactly what you're reiterating that he felt those were on

1043
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 1: Those were remarks on a general level, and so it

1044
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 1: was interesting that he welcomed anybody listening, including you out

1045
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 1: there folks, to write to him or contact him about

1046
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: a specific case. But it's something that we see happen

1047
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 1: often in multiple investigations. It kind of reminded me of

1048
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 1: do you guys remember the smiley face killer theory? And

1049
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: so one of the this is, um, there there's some

1050
01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 1: retired law enforcement professionals who are convinced that there is

1051
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: a serial killer group of killers drowning young college aged

1052
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: men across the United States, and the big debate that

1053
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: they keep having is whether there really is a discernible

1054
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: pattern with commonalities or whether these things are just being

1055
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 1: grouped together. You know, it just feels to me like

1056
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: the commonality in these cases largely were the fact that

1057
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 1: these things happened on national park grounds. And as we've

1058
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: discussed in our previous episode about you know, national parks

1059
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 1: and disappearances, they're massive and there's a lot of nefarious reasons.

1060
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: People can target these areas for their own own purposes,

1061
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, organized crime trying to uh kind

1062
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 1: of mask something they've done, hide to body or what

1063
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 1: have you, or whether their predators may be seeking out

1064
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: people in remote areas to target for you know, their

1065
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 1: own And I think that's one of the issues here.

1066
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 1: We're grouping together so many different instances that you're right,

1067
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: could have so many different causes. But when you look

1068
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: at them together like that, it's that idea of maybe

1069
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: maybe I can see something different by looking at them

1070
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 1: together rather than on a case to case basis. That's

1071
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: what it feels like to me. David has been doing

1072
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 1: over all these years of research and there's a there

1073
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: are those specific um commonalities as he sees them that

1074
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: they listed right, children, um berries was one right, extraordinary travel,

1075
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: you know of the of the like the point of

1076
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 1: disappearance to the point of discovery of remains. So um.

1077
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a debate that continues on in multiple,

1078
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 1: multiple venues, you know, multiple avenues of expression. And I

1079
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: don't I don't know because he you know, he doesn't

1080
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 1: talk about what might be causes. He he mentioned a

1081
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: little bit what other people had written to him and said,

1082
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 1: but you know, he is just aggregating the data. I

1083
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 1: respect that desire to maintain that kind of credibility that

1084
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: clearly is at the core of what he's doing and

1085
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 1: all this work that he's put in. But it it

1086
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 1: there is a part of that attitude that leaves you

1087
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: a little cold, where it's like you're putting this much

1088
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: work into what you know, you might call an investigation,

1089
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 1: but there's no result. There's no even speculation, there's no

1090
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: even hint of like what this might be. And I

1091
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: don't know that That left me wanting, well, I'm gonna

1092
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 1: go out and say it. There's no one, there's no five,

1093
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: there's no ten causes for all of these disappearances. Because

1094
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 1: you're talking about so many, each of them is going

1095
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: to have a slightly in my opinion, each one is

1096
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 1: going to have a slightly different explanation for why it

1097
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: happened and how it happens. So that's your take. It

1098
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 1: just got an idea. It struck me, bolt of lightning

1099
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: out of the blue. Right. Uh, we want to know

1100
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: what you think, listeners, So what do you think would

1101
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: be a probable cause? What do you think would be

1102
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: a plausible cause? What do you think would be an

1103
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 1: improbable cause or a or a um not impossible thing?

1104
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 1: Because you know, I know, I think you brought up

1105
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: a great point when you talk about organized crime. We

1106
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: do know, for instance, um an alternative lifestyles to subcultures.

1107
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 1: So we know, for instance, UM, there are various people

1108
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 1: living off the grid under the surface of American culture.

1109
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 1: We know that numerous communities team and thrive, and numerous

1110
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: unseen events occur. Yeah, there's something for everybody. You know,

1111
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: we've been living in this, uh, this crazy culture that

1112
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: we have where there are so many different types of

1113
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: personalities and dare I say perversions and you know, reasons

1114
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 1: to lots of reasons to go disappear into the woods.

1115
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 1: I guess that's what I'm getting at, whether it's for

1116
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 1: some kind of ritual or some kind of you know,

1117
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 1: like I said, targeted attack, I just I just kind

1118
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 1: of felt like, by the very nature of combining all

1119
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 1: of these cases, Mr Polites was implying without saying so,

1120
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 1: that there was something unusual or or related, something some

1121
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 1: connection that he keeps hinting at, by the very nature

1122
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:24,759
Speaker 1: of the fact that these are all you know, grouped

1123
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 1: together to see like, look, he's he's presenting them in

1124
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 1: that way. How can you not you know, I feel

1125
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 1: like there is an implied something's going on here, and

1126
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:36,879
Speaker 1: that's in the film. There's an air of like mystery.

1127
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 1: It's like we we found a single tooth, or like,

1128
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, like all of this stuff, it's presented in

1129
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: a way that to me comes off as like, what

1130
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 1: the hell is going on here? You know, I don't know,

1131
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 1: that's just me. I see what you're saying, and that's

1132
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 1: I think that's why. Um, we're also interested in hearing.

1133
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for everybody, I'm personally very

1134
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:00,639
Speaker 1: interested in hearing what the listeners have to say about

1135
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 1: for sure. And uh, I just have to mention because

1136
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 1: we're talking about national parks. I know this doesn't have

1137
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 1: anything to do with anything, but I've been reading more

1138
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 1: about it and I'm excited. You know, you guys know

1139
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 1: how I go through the obsessive phases. So Rainbow gatherings, Yeah, man,

1140
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:23,679
Speaker 1: yeah that okay, are we going? I do you want to? Okay, Well,

1141
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 1: we'll put a go pro on you and Nolan I

1142
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,640
Speaker 1: will be like the We'll be like the guys at

1143
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 1: the desk, like the hacking will hack for you. I

1144
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: think what we do is we put together some type

1145
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: of artisanal foods and then we just go and we

1146
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 1: started catching. We'll give you an earpiece and we'll feed

1147
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: you hippie lingo. All right, Yeah, you know Ramsey coworker

1148
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: here is really good at pickling things. I think that's

1149
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 1: our taken in. Okay, we'll need to build a different

1150
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 1: identity for you because Matt Frederick is too well known.

1151
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,720
Speaker 1: From the moment we drop you off, like a few

1152
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 1: miles outside of the gathering. What do you think about

1153
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: being the pickleman? Yeah, that's pretty good, or the man

1154
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 1: with pickles. I don't know either way. I'll go with it,

1155
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 1: or we could just give you a new identity where

1156
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 1: your last name is Pickleman. Oh, yes, Stephen Pickleman. Peter

1157
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 1: Pickleman's a little too out of those. Yes, I don't know.

1158
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 1: Not in a rainbow gathering. That's true. That's true if

1159
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 1: you if you are wondering what this bizarre they were

1160
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 1: talking about is and you're thinking, um, guys, you keep

1161
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: talking about this thing, but you're not telling us what

1162
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 1: is actually happening. Yeah, we understand. A rainbow gathering is

1163
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 1: a it's about what it sounds like. Yeah, it's an alternative. Uh,

1164
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 1: it's an annual I think it's annual alternative gathering in

1165
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:45,599
Speaker 1: national parks in the United States where a bunch of

1166
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 1: people live in a intentional community temporarily where they don't

1167
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 1: have money and they have As you said, I think

1168
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:57,799
Speaker 1: it is the age word. There's like a hippie vibe,

1169
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 1: and it seems like what I've been reading ab out

1170
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 1: has more to do with sort of the dark side

1171
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: of this, because if you want to if the FBI

1172
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: is looking for you or something, you want to disappear

1173
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 1: in a place and you don't have money, something like

1174
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: this could work as long as you're not, you know,

1175
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 1: a violent monster. And then I also started wondering about

1176
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:23,599
Speaker 1: cults and uh, other you know, intersections with other other

1177
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 1: cultures off the grid in the US UM, and what

1178
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 1: kind of background checks are involved when you join up.

1179
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think there's many. I don't know, dude.

1180
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 1: I just found this article in the Mirror, the UK

1181
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:38,680
Speaker 1: Mirror Mirror dot co dot UK. Photographer documents life at

1182
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 1: Rainbow Gatherings festival where people get naked to be one

1183
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:45,479
Speaker 1: with nature. And not only are these gorgeous photographs like

1184
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 1: these are wonderfully composed photographs. There's one in particular where

1185
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 1: it's like this lagoon and everyone's naked and it looks

1186
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 1: like the Garden of Eden or something like. It's wild.

1187
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 1: Uh So check it out if you get a chance.

1188
01:11:56,240 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 1: But it's it's n SFW for sure. It will give

1189
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 1: you a sense of what that Rainbow life is like. Yeah,

1190
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 1: and the okay, so I've seen like two documentaries about

1191
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 1: it UM just in the course of this new obsession,

1192
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 1: this new phase and uh and honestly, I don't think

1193
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: there are requirements to join. Apparently the way a lot

1194
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 1: of people are greeted if we just showed up, they

1195
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: would say welcome home. That's what they say. It slo Yeah,

1196
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 1: but I got walls, man, I got pace. I'm not.

1197
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm if I'm about that life.

1198
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 1: Just to jump back into four one one really fast

1199
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:38,280
Speaker 1: before yeside the point of the show. Yeah. One thing

1200
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,840
Speaker 1: I do want to mention here is that in the

1201
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:44,480
Speaker 1: course of our research over the years on David Politis

1202
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: and Missing four one one and Canadam Missing and all

1203
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: of the various projects that he's been involved with, we

1204
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 1: are aware that one of the websites David maintains is

1205
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:00,880
Speaker 1: the North America Bigfoot Search or nab US. And if

1206
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 1: you go on the IMDb page for the new Missing

1207
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:05,919
Speaker 1: four one one documentary that we watched for this interview,

1208
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 1: it is listed under there as the production company. It's

1209
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 1: listed in a B S. And it does seem like

1210
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 1: David has distanced himself from this and he may not

1211
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 1: actually be involved in the day to day operations of

1212
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 1: the site, but it is certainly a thing he has

1213
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,800
Speaker 1: been involved in the past. And with that, please send

1214
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 1: us your comments, your ideas, everything we talked about earlier.

1215
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 1: Send them to us on Twitter or on Facebook. Where

1216
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:34,679
Speaker 1: we're Conspiracy Stuff or you can find us on Instagram

1217
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 1: where we're Conspiracy Stuff Show. And if you don't like

1218
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 1: using social media, please contact us via that good old

1219
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: fashioned email. We are conspiracy at how stuff works dot

1220
01:13:45,400 --> 01:14:07,040
Speaker 1: com