Speaker 1: Episode three eleven, Keeping Financial Secrets from your Spouse with
Speaker 1: Caroline Bensel.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity and life. Here your hosts Jen
Speaker 2: and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast.
Speaker 3: My name is Jill and my.
Speaker 4: Name is Alison aka Jen.
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, kind of Jen.
Speaker 1: We've got Alison again as a stand in co host
Speaker 1: as Jen is still out on parental leave caring for
Speaker 1: the beautiful babe she birthed. But she'll be back soon.
Speaker 1: You'll be hearing from Jen again in the June episodes
Speaker 1: and beyond. But Alison from Inspired Budget, who was all
Speaker 1: over the Internet Instagram a podcast by the same name,
Speaker 1: is here and she's not just a fellow person in
Speaker 1: the personal finance space, but a friend. And yes, so
Speaker 1: we're so excited and this has gone so well. Both
Speaker 1: this time and the last time Jen gave birth. You
Speaker 1: were a standing co host, so just the ride er Die,
Speaker 1: the tried and true.
Speaker 3: Thanks for being here.
Speaker 4: I'm here for any massive life changes.
Speaker 1: Yes, and we're going to bring in another friend, Caroline,
Speaker 1: who will give a bit of an intro to but
Speaker 1: we are going to be talking about keeping financial secrets
Speaker 1: from spouse's how that can go awry what Caroline story is.
Speaker 1: But first, this episode is brought to you by Secrets,
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Speaker 1: If this conversation about money with partners is something that
Speaker 1: you really want to dig into a little bit more. Certainly,
Speaker 1: stay with us because this is a really good conversation.
Speaker 1: But also que up episode two thirty one being frugal
Speaker 1: with a non frugal partner. I know a lot of
Speaker 1: us feel the pain there. We're on board with getting
Speaker 1: our finances in order, but we might have a partner
Speaker 1: who's not. So listen into that one. Got some great
Speaker 1: tips for you, and episode one twenty six, Healthy Financial
Speaker 1: Boundaries with Family and Friends takes a little bit different
Speaker 1: of a perspective on how can we set in place
Speaker 1: some of these important boundary lines that are going to
Speaker 1: be protective for us when it comes to our personal finances.
Speaker 1: But again, stay here with us because Caroline is really amazing.
Speaker 3: We have had her on the show before.
Speaker 1: She is a money saving expert, especially when it comes
Speaker 1: to her family of six living on one income after
Speaker 1: becoming a teen mom. She is a master of living
Speaker 1: on a tight budget and still having and living a
Speaker 1: full life. So now as a six figure entrepreneur, she
Speaker 1: works from home and teaches other women how to make
Speaker 1: their money work for them and to take charge of
Speaker 1: their own financial lives.
Speaker 3: She is going to.
Speaker 1: Dig deeper with us about some of the decisions she
Speaker 1: made with her husband early on in marriage, how she
Speaker 1: kept some financial secrets, what that meant for them in
Speaker 1: their financial life, and kind of what she might do
Speaker 1: differently now looking back. But I don't want to give
Speaker 1: away too much about it. Just it's a good conversation.
Speaker 1: So let's dig in. Caroline, welcome. We are so excited
Speaker 1: to have you back again.
Speaker 3: We can't get enough.
Speaker 5: Oh, I'm so glad to be back. Thank you for
Speaker 5: having me.
Speaker 1: We are talking about something quite salacious, even in Jen's absence,
Speaker 1: So we're really going out on a limb here, like
Speaker 1: I know, the cats or the cats away, the mice
Speaker 1: and mice tagging into some hot takes and you're here
Speaker 1: for it. I got some too amazing females here chatting
Speaker 1: about this stuff. So talking about finances with our spouse,
Speaker 1: some of the things that we've done that maybe aren't
Speaker 1: so good but maybe still work, some of the things
Speaker 1: that maybe we would do differently. But first, can we
Speaker 1: just start with your story. We're talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: your personal experience of hiding money from your spouse, What happened,
Speaker 1: what led to that, just you know, we've got our coffee.
Speaker 4: I know, let's just digrade the tea. I actually Caroline
Speaker 4: has the tea. We have the coffee perfect.
Speaker 5: I love that.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 5: So hi everybody, I'm Caroline, And my story basically starts
Speaker 5: when I was a freshman in college, like two years
Speaker 5: or two months into my freshman year, I met my
Speaker 5: now husband, and so I'm eighteen. I had just graduated
Speaker 5: high school like six months before we met and had
Speaker 5: an absolute world wind romance and got engaged like this
Speaker 5: is my person and then promptly got pregnant, and so
Speaker 5: we were kind of forced into this situation where we
Speaker 5: probably wouldn't have had to talk about finances or like
Speaker 5: what it means to be kind of like financial partners
Speaker 5: in a relationship for probably at least a year or so,
Speaker 5: but nope, we were just thrown right into it. And
Speaker 5: it turns out that we were pretty different in our
Speaker 5: finances and in the way that we thought about money
Speaker 5: and in the way that we were brought up. We
Speaker 5: viewed our gender roles are like personality types, what we
Speaker 5: were entitled to do and have with our finances, and so,
Speaker 5: wouldn't you know it, that wound up leading to a
Speaker 5: lot of friction for us. We wound up butting heads
Speaker 5: constantly when it comes to finances, and it wasn't really
Speaker 5: until probably like after our son was born. About like
Speaker 5: six months after our son was born, I started getting
Speaker 5: hit with overdraft fees in my bank because I wasn't
Speaker 5: paying attention to it because I was at home with
Speaker 5: the child. I wasn't spending money, and so turns out
Speaker 5: my savings account had been completely depleted because my husband
Speaker 5: was just swiping that card constantly. And he's a great guy.
Speaker 5: Let me be clear, I love my husband. We were
Speaker 5: in a much much better place now. We've been together
Speaker 5: since twenty or two twenty ten, I guess, I don't
Speaker 5: know two thousand and nine. It was a long time ago.
Speaker 3: But we can't even count that fire.
Speaker 5: I know he started throwing around like we're gonna be
Speaker 5: the other like fifteen years, and like you got a backup.
Speaker 5: I'm too young for that. But we had these kinds
Speaker 5: of like conversations really kind of forcefully, and it was
Speaker 5: it was kind of this moment of like, what did
Speaker 5: you husband do to my finances? There's no more money?
Speaker 5: And his come up was, I work, so I should
Speaker 5: be able to spend my money how I want. And
Speaker 5: that makes total sense when you're you know, twenty five
Speaker 5: and single, when you're in a relationship, when you're in
Speaker 5: a partnership, and when you have a family, that does
Speaker 5: tend to change financial dynamics and just kind of relational
Speaker 5: dynamics as well, And so that was really difficult for
Speaker 5: him to overcome mentally. So it was still very much
Speaker 5: a this is my money, I work for it, I
Speaker 5: should be able to spend it. And here I come
Speaker 5: be in the voice of reason, like we need to
Speaker 5: buy diapers for this baby.
Speaker 3: We had a body trained yet he's only three, yes.
Speaker 5: And when he is body's trained, he's gonna want food,
Speaker 5: he's gonna get out, he needs clothes. And so this
Speaker 5: was a lot for my husband at the time to
Speaker 5: process and we really really fought for a long time.
Speaker 5: And something for him that was really difficult to get
Speaker 5: past was the idea of not just like, you know,
Speaker 5: it's my money, but there wasn't really a future that
Speaker 5: was possible in his mind. It was like, I'm just
Speaker 5: gonna spend because I make eleven dollars an hour, Like
Speaker 5: what's the point of even trying to save anything that
Speaker 5: I would save would be like a dollar, So what's
Speaker 5: the point, I'll just spend it. And that's not my
Speaker 5: come up. I'm the saver, he's the spender. And so,
Speaker 5: needless to say, we wound up with a lot of
Speaker 5: a lot of butting heads, a lot of threats of divorce,
Speaker 5: of leaving, and ultimately wound up in a lot of
Speaker 5: therapy that helped a lot, and now we are in
Speaker 5: a lot better place financially in our marriage and our
Speaker 5: relationship together. But it did start pretty rocky. Not gonna lie, Oh, I.
Speaker 4: Have a question. Actually, actually it's not a question. It's
Speaker 4: more of an observation. You said, Caroline that your husband
Speaker 4: was thinking, I make this money, I deserve to spend
Speaker 4: it how I want. I feel like that's not like
Speaker 4: I feel like a lot of people feel that way,
Speaker 4: whether they're single or married, And it's kind of like this,
Speaker 4: we put in the work and the effort, and now
Speaker 4: I should be able to spend the money how I
Speaker 4: want and I don't want anyone else to tell me
Speaker 4: how to do it. And I want to be able
Speaker 4: to buy what I want to buy. And I say
Speaker 4: that all from experience as well, Like I felt that way.
Speaker 4: I think that's definitely normal. So oh yeah, And I'm guessing,
Speaker 4: like because I know whenever y'all were doing this back then,
Speaker 4: this is not whenever I feel like therapy was popular.
Speaker 4: I know you guys didn't go to therapy back then.
Speaker 4: You probably didn't honestly have the budget for it. So
Speaker 4: you're in a better place, You're in a different place.
Speaker 4: He sees things differently. How did you get there? How
Speaker 4: did you get him there? Over to the bright side
Speaker 4: to leave the dark side.
Speaker 3: If you will.
Speaker 5: So this is kind of where it gets a little salacious,
Speaker 5: as you'll put it so very well and actually put
Speaker 5: it earlier. I started after we had this huge knockdown,
Speaker 5: drag out fight about like there is no future, why
Speaker 5: would I bother saving? And I had kind of hit
Speaker 5: this moment of I am not going to be living
Speaker 5: paycheck to paycheck for the rest of my life. I
Speaker 5: was like twenty one at the time, by the way,
Speaker 5: like I was like twenty or twenty one at this point.
Speaker 5: I'm like, I cannot fathom that I will live until
Speaker 5: I'm in my nineties, because all my grandparents are in
Speaker 5: their nineties. God blessom, Like, I'm not going to live
Speaker 5: paycheck to paycheck until I die, It's not going to happen.
Speaker 5: And so that was the moment when I realized, I'm like,
Speaker 5: either you're going to do this with me, or I'm
Speaker 5: going to do this and you're going to come along
Speaker 5: for the ride. Now let me before we get anywhere.
Speaker 5: I am not advocating financial abuse in any way, shape
Speaker 5: or form, like this is just happened to work in
Speaker 5: my situation. But we'll talk about that in a second.
Speaker 4: You're advocating boundaries there were, whether it's boundaries and a
Speaker 4: marriage or boundaries that you put on yourself inside of marriage.
Speaker 5: Yes's and it's kind of a it was a forceful
Speaker 5: help in the right pla direction. That is how I
Speaker 5: try to view it. But ultimately, what I started doing
Speaker 5: was I started giving my husband's debit card a limit,
Speaker 5: a daily limit.
Speaker 3: He couldn't exceed.
Speaker 5: Twenty dollars a day, and it had a twenty dollars
Speaker 5: from our primary checking account limit. Each week, it would
Speaker 5: he would transfer twenty dollars onto his debit card and
Speaker 5: that was all the money that he had for the week.
Speaker 5: Now did he know about this, Yes, he did.
Speaker 3: He had to be nowhere.
Speaker 5: It was it was a rough first few weeks where
Speaker 5: he would blow through all of that money on Monday
Speaker 5: and then be like, well, I don't have any money
Speaker 5: for work for the rest of the week for lunch.
Speaker 5: I'm like, you have food at home? We just spent
Speaker 5: all this money on groceries.
Speaker 3: Like that's no fun, I know, but yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, where did you come up with a twenty dollars limit?
Speaker 5: That was what we felt that he could afford and
Speaker 5: that was reasonable. And again, this was, you know, back
Speaker 5: in twenty eleven or something, So call it fifteen dollars,
Speaker 5: or call it twenty five dollars, call it forty dollars,
Speaker 5: whatever makes sense to you. That's what worked for us.
Speaker 5: And that was again we were making eleven twelve dollars
Speaker 5: an hour at the time. And I know that nobody
Speaker 5: does that anymore. I totally know that. But for us,
Speaker 5: that was all that we could reasonably afford. That in
Speaker 5: my head, was enough for him to buy the food
Speaker 5: that he wanted for the week. Still feel like he
Speaker 5: could splurge, Like if you wanted to go to Burger
Speaker 5: King or whatever was around the corner from work, you can.
Speaker 5: You have that kind of freedom, but you can't do
Speaker 5: it every single day for lunch and then after work
Speaker 5: or then before work or whatever it was. So it
Speaker 5: was enough to feel like he was able to do
Speaker 5: what he wanted without going over.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you set the limit, he begrudgingly obliged.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and what else? So that was when I started
Speaker 5: moving money from our checking account into a savings account
Speaker 5: that was separate from our checking account, so there was
Speaker 5: no possible way that there was like an overdraft and
Speaker 5: it would just take that money out. This was a
Speaker 5: completely separate account, and each week on payday, I had
Speaker 5: an automatic withdrawal and deposit set up from checking to savings.
Speaker 5: So let's say it was one thousand dollars paycheck for
Speaker 5: that week, two hundred dollars would directly go into savings immediately,
Speaker 5: so it only looked like there was eight hundred dollars left.
Speaker 5: And so once all the bills were paid in everything
Speaker 5: and the card spids and it got declined because there
Speaker 5: was no money, he's like, oh, I guess there's no money.
Speaker 5: I'll just stop.
Speaker 4: But he didn't know.
Speaker 5: He did not know that that money was moving.
Speaker 4: So you were setting aside about twenty percent of his
Speaker 4: net pay, and he had no idea. So here he
Speaker 4: is going along thinking, oh, we're in the exact same position.
Speaker 4: We are making the exact same amount of we have enough,
Speaker 4: We're in the exact same position, we have the exact
Speaker 4: same amount of spending money. But then you have Caroline
Speaker 4: over there and stand in a dark corner squirrelings exactly saying, ah,
Speaker 4: I'm going to take us on a family vacation or
Speaker 4: something like. And you don't even know about it?
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 4: Is that what it was? Okay, how long did you
Speaker 4: do this for?
Speaker 5: It was? It was for I don't even remember how
Speaker 5: long it was because it was twenty percent right off
Speaker 5: the top, and if you worked any overtime at all,
Speaker 5: right in there immediately, Like so if he worked extra
Speaker 5: time and a half right into the savings account. He's like, ma'am,
Speaker 5: we're going through money pretty quick.
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, it's all that burger king you're getting
Speaker 4: before work and afterwork. So I'm I'm curious because I'm
Speaker 4: I'm not like against separate finances. I'm not even against
Speaker 4: separate accounts in terms of you know, my husband has
Speaker 4: a separate checking account that is his spending money. I
Speaker 4: pay him as a contractor. He gets to spend that money.
Speaker 4: However it is I don't have access to it. Did
Speaker 4: he have access to this savings account? Or was it
Speaker 4: just Caroline Vensel's name only and that that's it.
Speaker 3: I'm just curious. So this is the.
Speaker 5: Fun part, which is if he actually logged in, Oh
Speaker 5: my goodness, right there. I the amount of times I
Speaker 5: have given this man, and I love this man, the
Speaker 5: amount of times I have given him. I'm like, this
Speaker 5: is your account log it's on your phone. You can
Speaker 5: look at it. He's never done it once, never done it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he could have done if he wanted to.
Speaker 1: You weren't doing acrobatics to count this information from him.
Speaker 1: But even if you were, and I hear you saying,
Speaker 1: I don't recommend you know this form of secrecy. But
Speaker 1: it's more of a surprise than it is this kind
Speaker 1: of abusive financial situation. It's, you know, kind of some
Speaker 1: of the things that we might do in relationships to
Speaker 1: give a nice gift to somebody. Again, this does speak
Speaker 1: to other issues and we're not using yeah as a
Speaker 1: Oh here's a hot tip on how you like start
Speaker 1: your savings account if your spouse isn't on board. This
Speaker 1: is one of those like sell them what they want,
Speaker 1: give them what they need.
Speaker 3: Situation.
Speaker 1: Yes, So with that, what is there something different that
Speaker 1: you would have done looking back and looking at maybe
Speaker 1: the realities or someone else is in a similar situation
Speaker 1: where there's just not buy in for the financial pieces
Speaker 1: that need to come together.
Speaker 3: What to do is like is.
Speaker 5: It like I don't know?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess just like squirrel it away and don't
Speaker 1: tell your partner or or is there something looking back
Speaker 1: you could say I could have done this differently?
Speaker 5: Yeah. I am a huge advocate of therapy, and finding
Speaker 5: a therapist that is covered by your insurance plan helps
Speaker 5: to mitigate some of that cost. We learned that when
Speaker 5: we started looking into therapists, we thought it was going
Speaker 5: to be like two hundred dollars an hour. It was
Speaker 5: twenty with our Copey So that changed a lot. I
Speaker 5: know right, what I know are.
Speaker 1: A lot who will operate on a slaving sliding scale fee.
Speaker 3: Yea, So it's yeah, And.
Speaker 5: That was my big thing. If I could go back,
Speaker 5: I would find a therapist who was capable of helping
Speaker 5: with not like helping with finances, but really our therapist
Speaker 5: when we lived in Pennsylvania. I love our therapist. He
Speaker 5: was the only person who was ever able to get
Speaker 5: through in asher for my husband. It was a lot
Speaker 5: of people who were kind of just like, you know,
Speaker 5: the man is supposed to understand finances. I'm like, but
Speaker 5: this one doesn't. This model does not like I need,
Speaker 5: I need more than just like this is supposed to
Speaker 5: be something that they know it's like, but it's not.
Speaker 5: It's not. And he was never taught it. And so
Speaker 5: I went in assuming that he would know finances. And
Speaker 5: I was like blown away that I was so wrong.
Speaker 5: But I don't recommend like hiding things from your spouse.
Speaker 5: I believe leave that marriage and any kind of a relationship,
Speaker 5: it should be a partnership. You should have these kinds
Speaker 5: of conversations. But I also had heard this, and this
Speaker 5: is when I started saving the money and scurolling it
Speaker 5: away was clean up your side of the street first
Speaker 5: and then wait to see how people react to it.
Speaker 5: And so I was like, I'm going to do this
Speaker 5: for me. I'm going to do this for myself, for
Speaker 5: our son, for our future. And so I started saving
Speaker 5: and it was when it got to one thousand dollars
Speaker 5: in the savings account, like we didn't really feel a
Speaker 5: great deal of a pinch. And that was when I
Speaker 5: told him about it. And it wasn't until we had
Speaker 5: hit that and it was it was probably like six months. Again,
Speaker 5: we were like not making a lot of money at
Speaker 5: all at the time.
Speaker 4: But still, that's that's incredible.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And so when I told him about it, I again,
Speaker 5: he's not a violent person at all, but he was upset.
Speaker 5: He was like, why were you hiding money from me?
Speaker 5: It was like, because you would have spent it all.
Speaker 5: And once he really like stopped and was like, oh
Speaker 5: my gosh, So wait, you're telling me that in six
Speaker 5: months we were able to save one thousand dollars and
Speaker 5: I didn't really even notice it. I'm like, yes, now
Speaker 5: you get it. Now you understand that with a little
Speaker 5: bit of intentionality, we can actually plan for a future.
Speaker 5: We can save, we can go on these vacations that
Speaker 5: we want to and we don't have to live paycheck
Speaker 5: to paycheck and that's just what we have to accept.
Speaker 5: But that's kind of like I do a huge advocate
Speaker 5: for going to therapy if you feel like you're struggling
Speaker 5: and you want to make your relationship work and neither
Speaker 5: one of you are seeing eye to eye, and even
Speaker 5: if you feel like you're in the right one hundred percent,
Speaker 5: seek third party help, have somebody who can be a
Speaker 5: what is it called, like a mediator mediator to be
Speaker 5: in that middle place, to be like, okay, so you're
Speaker 5: both kind of a little bit right, let's find some
Speaker 5: middle ground.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I love that tip too, because so often,
Speaker 1: and it's not just about the money. I think we
Speaker 1: can assume, oh no, we just have to figure out
Speaker 1: how to crunch these numbers better.
Speaker 3: We don't have to go pay somebody.
Speaker 1: To let us talk to them. We can figure this
Speaker 1: out on our own. But the reality is is often
Speaker 1: it's deeper than that. It will touch on other relational
Speaker 1: dynamics cycles, patterns of relating issues within the marriage that
Speaker 1: may or may not even be connected to finances, But
Speaker 1: by addressing those, you're going to experience some breakthroughs when
Speaker 1: it comes to finances. So absolutely, I can't can't it
Speaker 1: enough and I will Also, this is my little side
Speaker 1: tangent say that to go to therapy and couple's therapy
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're locked in for forever. You're going weekly
Speaker 1: and with no end in sight, and you're just hemorrhaging
Speaker 1: cash to this person that you're sitting on a couch with,
Speaker 1: quite the opposite, and you could state goals from the
Speaker 1: start about what is it that we want to talk
Speaker 1: about and resolve and set a target end date together.
Speaker 1: It could be that you're able to talk through the
Speaker 1: issue in three months, and it might not even mean
Speaker 1: that you're going weekly. It could be twice a month,
Speaker 1: once a month. So there really is a way to
Speaker 1: make it financially feasible if this is something that's being faced,
Speaker 1: and I think I want to highlight too. While this
Speaker 1: isn't your story of the financial secret being something that
Speaker 1: puts you into financial ruin, quite the.
Speaker 3: Opposite, which is the best version.
Speaker 1: All the secret is surprise, we've got money saved. But
Speaker 1: you know, for many there's financial secrets where it's it's
Speaker 1: the other end of the spectrum of we're going into debt,
Speaker 1: they're spending you don't know about. There's these things that
Speaker 1: I'm keeping hidden on purpose, and there might be a
Speaker 1: little bit of yeah, maybe not intentional maliciousness to it,
Speaker 1: but there's harm happening. And so either end of the spectrum,
Speaker 1: either whether you're in a situation where you feel like
Speaker 1: I have to save and I have to keep it
Speaker 1: from my spouse because they're just not on board. Or
Speaker 1: I'm spending or I'm going into debt and I feel
Speaker 1: so ashamed and I don't want to talk to my
Speaker 1: spouse about it either. One we can, there can be
Speaker 1: room for hope and conversation, and yes, a therapist can
Speaker 1: help there.
Speaker 3: So I'm a well plug.
Speaker 4: And I will also say I love your story, particularly
Speaker 4: because I feel like it's this underdog story of your
Speaker 4: husband was the one that you would assume would never
Speaker 4: get on board and appreciate saving because he loves spending.
Speaker 4: And once he saw what was possible, there was this
Speaker 4: total mindset shift, this light bulb, if you will. Maybe
Speaker 4: the clouds parted in the heavens shone down on him,
Speaker 4: I don't know. But he saw what was possible and
Speaker 4: he was able to make that change in his thinking,
Speaker 4: which I think all of us are capable of doing.
Speaker 4: But you don't always believe in ourselves enough. Yeah, sometimes
Speaker 4: we need our handheld a little bit to do that,
Speaker 4: and that's what you were there to do. So Caroline,
Speaker 4: thank you. I love I love your story. I think
Speaker 4: it's wonderful. I think that it's a great lesson for
Speaker 4: other people in what they what is hope for their
Speaker 4: possible partnership. And then also just an idea of like, Okay,
Speaker 4: Caroline did it this way, she handled it this way.
Speaker 4: It worked out in the end, but maybe my husband
Speaker 4: or my spouse partner wouldn't like that, So let me
Speaker 4: pivot to do something a little bit different but hopefully
Speaker 4: have the same outcome.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it is possible. We are people that are
Speaker 5: capable of change. Everybody is capable of change, and sometimes
Speaker 5: it does just take that little bit of a mindset tweak.
Speaker 5: And I did kind of force my husband's hand. Oh
Speaker 5: my goodness, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3: There's a kiddie.
Speaker 5: I did force my husband's hand in this in our
Speaker 5: kind of relationship dynamic. But it did wind up being
Speaker 5: something for the better and it did wind up teaching
Speaker 5: him a lot. And I just said this the other day.
Speaker 5: I said this before we started recording to jenn and Allison.
Speaker 5: I'm like, he said something the other day about like, oh,
Speaker 5: and we can save more money if we do this,
Speaker 5: and I was like, oh, swoon, wait stop, did you
Speaker 5: just say that you could save money? You're like planning
Speaker 5: on ways to save Yes, tell me more like cook
Speaker 5: me dinner while I just look at you and you
Speaker 5: can talk about saving money.
Speaker 1: Like we can move towards collaboration, we can get better
Speaker 1: in our partnership, which is beautiful, and yes, that is
Speaker 1: that is some hot marriage.
Speaker 3: Stuff, righty, right.
Speaker 1: One of the things to go back and dig into
Speaker 1: your story a little bit, because I'm just curious over
Speaker 1: here there's a I think unique part of what you're
Speaker 1: saying and others might experience this too, where you're talking about, Okay,
Speaker 1: you got to clean up your side of the street first,
Speaker 1: which I one hundred percent agree with. I think where
Speaker 1: the rub can come and I'd be curious your perspective
Speaker 1: and what you might recommend to other people in this
Speaker 1: situation where that mindset of well, I'm the bread winner,
Speaker 1: Like if you're in a one income household and one
Speaker 1: of the spouses is making the money, and let's say
Speaker 1: it's that spouse who doesn't have their kind of saving
Speaker 1: cap on, and it's the spouse who's taking care of
Speaker 1: the household, who might not be working for money at
Speaker 1: the time, being the one trying to drive some important
Speaker 1: financial decisions, what do you recommend for that specific rub
Speaker 1: what does cleaning up my side of the street if
Speaker 1: I'm not the one earning the money.
Speaker 3: So to speak.
Speaker 5: So I'm a little bit petty. I'm a little bit petty,
Speaker 5: And so I googled the salary of a stay at
Speaker 5: home mom. Nice. It was like, so, just so we're clear,
Speaker 5: you go to work for eight hours, not diminishing that
Speaker 5: in the least. He worked in a steel fabrication shut stop.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 5: I know, like, please, don't like, I appreciate it, but
Speaker 5: you do this. I'm on call from eyes open to
Speaker 5: eyes closed, and in the middle of the night, if
Speaker 5: somebody gets sick, They're not waking you up, They're waking
Speaker 5: me up. And so I did what I thought was reasonable.
Speaker 5: I'm like, I'm at home all day making food, cleaning, cooking,
Speaker 5: taking care of kids, picking up dog poop, all of
Speaker 5: those things that you would have had to hire someone
Speaker 5: to do if it weren't me. And that helped also
Speaker 5: for him to see a lot of the invisible work
Speaker 5: that does go on. I have heard of people. No,
Speaker 5: I did not do this because I I wouldn't because
Speaker 5: I'm a little bit of a perfectionist. But I've heard
Speaker 5: people going on like a cleaning strike or like a
Speaker 5: doing oh my gosh, your spouse strike to prove the
Speaker 5: value of being that stay at home partner. I did
Speaker 5: not do that because I know that nothing would get
Speaker 5: done and that would stress me out.
Speaker 3: You'd be probably fine with it.
Speaker 5: They bother you more, I know, right, So that was
Speaker 5: not something that I did. But what I did do
Speaker 5: was show him the how much a stay at home
Speaker 5: mom makes. And I think salary dot count has that,
Speaker 5: so you all, I know, right, And it was something screwy,
Speaker 5: like one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year or something.
Speaker 5: I can't remember what it was, but that was a
Speaker 5: big thing for him to be able to see, like
Speaker 5: all of this stuff, and sometimes it doesn't exactly get through.
Speaker 5: Sometimes people are a little bit dense and that's okay,
Speaker 5: and sometimes that's just not how they communicate. And sometimes
Speaker 5: you're fighting an uphill battle against their work environment too.
Speaker 5: My husband worked a blue collar job. He's around guys
Speaker 5: who are in blue collar jobs, and typically that machismo
Speaker 5: of like I make the rules, I'm the man of
Speaker 5: the house is something that we had to fight against
Speaker 5: because everybody, if everybody's doing it, it's like if everybody's
Speaker 5: going out to lunch and nobody else's wife says, here's
Speaker 5: your twenty dollars bill for the whole week. It does
Speaker 5: seem kind of not unfair, but also kind of unfair.
Speaker 3: Ye.
Speaker 5: And so for him that was something that he had
Speaker 5: to go to therapy individually for to kind of be
Speaker 5: able to see outside of that mold. We don't have
Speaker 5: a typical relationship in a lot of different situations, Like
Speaker 5: I manage all of the finances, and god bless him,
Speaker 5: he doesn't. I'm like, this is how much money we have,
Speaker 5: and all the bills are paid. He's like, thumbs up,
Speaker 5: that's good. Rights. That's the extent of his role, and
Speaker 5: he knows it. And so I do still like, I
Speaker 5: keep coming back to therapy. I keep coming back to
Speaker 5: having somebody in your corner being able to help you,
Speaker 5: being able to help your partner, being able to help
Speaker 5: your spouse, being able to help your family, whatever you
Speaker 5: want to look at it as, Yeah, being able to
Speaker 5: bring some kind of like a voice of reason to
Speaker 5: that conversation, because sometimes it does take a little bit
Speaker 5: of work. Sometimes it does take somebody who has also
Speaker 5: been in that situation. I can't be saying you need
Speaker 5: to work at this. It needs to be somebody that
Speaker 5: they know and trust who's like, dude, this is a problem.
Speaker 5: Listen to your wife and he's like, I see what
Speaker 5: you mean. Like that was what our therapist did. And
Speaker 5: I'm like, it took probably seven years into our marriage
Speaker 5: before a therapist was like, dude, you are you are
Speaker 5: actually being problematic? Do you see that? He's like, I
Speaker 5: see your point, Like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you get a lot of it's a lot of ego.
Speaker 4: It's a lot of dealing with your own ego and
Speaker 4: facing it. Yeah, it sounds like and that's hard work.
Speaker 4: And it sounds like he did the hard work, which
Speaker 4: is great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that the secret is what brought
Speaker 1: to light. Okay, this actually needs to be looked at.
Speaker 1: I do think that there are some times, while maybe
Speaker 1: not a tip to replicate, but there are some times
Speaker 1: where something drastic needs to happen to shake the thing up.
Speaker 1: You know, while we all don't want crisis events in
Speaker 1: our lives, so often, the pivot point that we all
Speaker 1: point back to are those very events. You know, when
Speaker 1: I lost my job or I had to move, the
Speaker 1: housing market crash and it's these things were really awful.
Speaker 1: We don't want to replicate them, we don't wish them
Speaker 1: on anybody else. But if there's any silver lining in it,
Speaker 1: it highlights this thing, and I think too, to remove
Speaker 1: some of the mystery out of this thing that we
Speaker 1: keep coming back to of. If you keep coming to
Speaker 1: a dead end, seek out therapy, seek out a mediator.
Speaker 1: What that's going to do is find the inroads of negotiation,
Speaker 1: help somebody see, help each partner see where the other
Speaker 1: one is coming from that you may not be able
Speaker 1: to get to on your own, and create those spaces
Speaker 1: for each other to exist in ways that are kind
Speaker 1: to both parties that sometimes we can't do on our own.
Speaker 5: So yes, yeah, yes, yeah, And not even just that,
Speaker 5: but like because of the the concept of like I
Speaker 5: didn't want to give him any money when we were
Speaker 5: initially starting. I'm like, no, you just don't go to
Speaker 5: like what's wrong with you? Like, no money, don't go
Speaker 5: to Burger King. He's like, no, that's not see that
Speaker 5: would I see it? Face this spire is like that's
Speaker 5: not happening.
Speaker 3: You can't deprive him.
Speaker 4: And if someone did that to me, I would be like, Okay,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna spend all the money. Then you tell me
Speaker 4: I can't spend anything, I'm a spend it at all.
Speaker 4: That's what I would be like. And that's I mean,
Speaker 4: you know, I had an allowance as well. It was
Speaker 4: a self imposed allowance, but it was a self imposed
Speaker 4: allowance I gave myself after being told, you know, telling
Speaker 4: myself you're not gonna spend anything, and it's just not.
Speaker 5: Realistic, it's not And that was kind of part of that.
Speaker 5: That kind of like a dynamic. It is an ebb
Speaker 5: and flow. It is finding in roads, it is finding compromise.
Speaker 5: It's saying you can have twenty dollars instead of zero.
Speaker 5: These are the two ours that we can go with
Speaker 5: and finding that middle ground and being able to accommodate,
Speaker 5: like you do want to feel like I make the money,
Speaker 5: I should be able to spend it how I want. Yeah,
Speaker 5: that's giving him that ability without completely stripping it away
Speaker 5: and emasculating him and making him go without something that
Speaker 5: he really enjoyed once a week. It just makes it
Speaker 5: more important because instead of it being every day, it
Speaker 5: is just once in a while, But you still have
Speaker 5: that choice. That's the big thing.
Speaker 1: Speaking of doing what I want and something that we
Speaker 1: love to get once or twice a week, usually twice
Speaker 1: a week.
Speaker 5: Oh, where are we going here? Where are we going here?
Speaker 2: That's right for the best minute of your entire week.
Speaker 4: Maybe a baby was.
Speaker 2: Born and his name is Williams. Maybe you've paid off
Speaker 2: your mortgage, maybe your car died, and you're happy to
Speaker 2: not have to pay that bill anymore. That bills, Buffalo bills,
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the week.
Speaker 3: We'reting good at that.
Speaker 1: That was adorable, all right, Caroline, You know the drill
Speaker 1: every week.
Speaker 3: Multiple times a week.
Speaker 1: God our yass or our listeners to share their bill
Speaker 1: of the week. And because this time you're a guest
Speaker 1: and not just a listener, the honor is yours.
Speaker 3: What's your bill?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 5: My bill is actually my father in law of Bill,
Speaker 5: who has a YouTube channel that I think now has
Speaker 5: one hundred and twenty five thousand subscribers. Nice, I know,
Speaker 5: and it's so cute he has on their mantle. He
Speaker 5: has his plaque from YouTube. But wait, it's kind of
Speaker 5: like off to the side and behind a plant. It's
Speaker 5: like a humble brag right.
Speaker 1: Yah.
Speaker 5: I love to still see it, but kind of an
Speaker 5: ambient guitar channel. You should check it out.
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, what's it called?
Speaker 5: Chords of Orion Hords chord cords ambient guitar Orion Orion
Speaker 5: Chords of Orion like a guitar, Chord of Orion like
Speaker 5: a constellation.
Speaker 1: Wow, we're gonna shoot up that subscriber ship. He used
Speaker 1: to have a plaque behind a plant.
Speaker 4: That's I know, have another go that's right now that
Speaker 4: one gets to be in front of the plant.
Speaker 1: Oh, Carol Aara, you are just feeding me what I
Speaker 1: want bills that are real bills, and especially when they're
Speaker 1: father in law's with a following and a.
Speaker 3: Unique niche setting on YouTube tube. Oh this is beautiful.
Speaker 5: He's awesome words of oryon if you're monetizing it. Of
Speaker 5: course he is a hi. Good for him and he
Speaker 5: gets he gets like alhar pedal.
Speaker 3: Let's have a gre business meeting for Bill.
Speaker 1: I know, right?
Speaker 4: Can we talk about his five year plan?
Speaker 3: How does he want to grow it? What does he
Speaker 3: see for the future?
Speaker 6: Wow?
Speaker 1: Well, if you're listening and you happen to have a
Speaker 1: father in law named Bill with a huge following on YouTube,
Speaker 1: or you just happen to pay off a bill, or
Speaker 1: you like carrying wads of bills in your pocket. Hopefully
Speaker 1: it's dollar bills and not like a bunch of actual
Speaker 1: people named Bill in your pocket. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know what you do, though, we're here for it.
Speaker 1: Submit it to us. We love listening. Visit Frugal Friends
Speaker 1: podcast dot com slash bill. Leave us your bill. Were
Speaker 1: ready for it, and now it's time for the lighting around.
Speaker 4: Oh my favorite part of the show.
Speaker 3: That you've come to enjoy it, Alison, I have. I've
Speaker 3: come to enjoy it.
Speaker 4: Really, she can't. Don't listen to her.
Speaker 1: She knows something about my loud noise, my loud aggressive noises.
Speaker 3: But where else am I going to get it out?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: She's got to just accept you for you, you know, And
Speaker 4: that's what I do. I accept you for everything that
Speaker 4: you are. Jen, if you're listening, just love her for it,
Speaker 4: not in spite of it.
Speaker 1: I live in Florida now, but there's still a little
Speaker 1: filly there.
Speaker 5: There you go, There you go. We are loud, aren't we?
Speaker 1: So this lightning round as this is the part Jen like,
Speaker 1: she wants to make it vulnerable.
Speaker 3: So hats off to you, Jen.
Speaker 1: We're still honoring you in your absence, What something you
Speaker 1: do now to communicate effectively with your spouse about finances?
Speaker 1: Caveat here, none of us are saying that we've arrived,
Speaker 1: that we all haven't figured out communicating finances with our spouse.
Speaker 1: But what for you all all answer to is working
Speaker 1: when it comes to some of these more difficult financial conversations.
Speaker 3: Okay, Carol, first, Okay, I'll make a first.
Speaker 4: I was like, I already know what I'm going to say,
Speaker 4: filled out. No, if you're ready the Google doc spill it. Okay.
Speaker 4: So what has worked with my husband and I is
Speaker 4: being direct but without judgment. So one thing that I
Speaker 4: sometimes maybe every now and then, okay all the time
Speaker 4: do is I make assumptions that he knows what I'm
Speaker 4: thinking or feeling, especially what I'm thinking, because if I'm
Speaker 4: thinking it, it only makes sense that he's thinking it too,
Speaker 4: because I'm always right right. Well, Unfortunately, he can't read
Speaker 4: my mind, and so there's a lot of times when
Speaker 4: it comes to our money or even other areas of
Speaker 4: our life where we have to be very direct in saying,
Speaker 4: here's what I want this money to go to, or
Speaker 4: here's the goal I want to work on or here's
Speaker 4: what I want to change. And we are very direct
Speaker 4: so that way there's no guessing. There's no question on oh,
Speaker 4: did you really mean this instead but you said that. No,
Speaker 4: there's none of that. But we do it in a
Speaker 4: way that is very judgment free. So there have been
Speaker 4: times when I have been overspending and he has come
Speaker 4: to me and he has said, hey, I have noticed
Speaker 4: that you are overspending on the credit card. What's going on?
Speaker 4: And I'm like, darn, I wish you wouldn't have noticed that. Well,
Speaker 4: here's what's going on. And it's a very direct conversation,
Speaker 4: but through grace and no judgment and no name calling
Speaker 4: and just open and honesty and just to where we
Speaker 4: can come to each other and really as a team
Speaker 4: work together as a team.
Speaker 1: I got to imagine that's taken a lot of practice
Speaker 1: to actually be able to highlight something that you see
Speaker 1: and then not become offended and shut down the conversation.
Speaker 1: I imagine it's taken work to get there.
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean we've been married for almost twelve years,
Speaker 4: so it definitely has taken work. And guess what therapy
Speaker 4: therapy The new sponsor of the city, as I know
Speaker 4: apparently apparently just.
Speaker 3: Believe in it exactly.
Speaker 4: So I would definitely say that we that has not
Speaker 4: always been a possibility for us, but it is now
Speaker 4: and it's not perfect every time, but we're able to
Speaker 4: go through and have those conversations and say like, oh,
Speaker 4: well the way you know that's hurting my feelings or
Speaker 4: anything like that.
Speaker 1: So it's been I love that question of I've noticed
Speaker 1: and what's going on? Because I mean, you didn't say this,
Speaker 1: but I'm imagining that it probably does highlight something else.
Speaker 1: It's not just you're so awful for overspending. It probably
Speaker 1: is you might be really stressed and what's going on
Speaker 1: in your life that this might be the outlet that
Speaker 1: you're coping with this. Yeah, so the question, the way
Speaker 1: that you all have framed it together, sounds like there's
Speaker 1: an opening to talk about life and personhood and not
Speaker 1: just the number in front of you exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because money is math, but money is also emotional,
Speaker 4: so it leaves room to address the math but deal
Speaker 4: with the emotions.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: True, So like that for you guys, Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: What about you, Caroline.
Speaker 5: It's finding we really like to kind of find the
Speaker 5: middle ground for both of us where he knows that
Speaker 5: I'm a saver. And so when I hear about him
Speaker 5: saving money or finding ways to save money or recommending
Speaker 5: something that doesn't cost money, it speaks my love language in.
Speaker 3: Such a way.
Speaker 5: Like if he's like, I went to the supermarket and
Speaker 5: got steaks and we're going to cook them at dinner
Speaker 5: and we're going to have a nice dinner after the
Speaker 5: kids go to bed, and that's going to be our
Speaker 5: date night. Like say, less, we don't have to spend
Speaker 5: you know, one hundred and fifty dollars getting a steak
Speaker 5: dinner and find a sitter and make sure that everything
Speaker 5: works out and everything like that, Like it's a low
Speaker 5: key thing, and that speaks my love language.
Speaker 3: You had to say stay at home.
Speaker 5: I know. I'm happy to stay home, eat a steak
Speaker 5: and play video you had me at steak. That's it.
Speaker 5: That's all I need. And then for him, when I
Speaker 5: say things like yeah, you can go out and buy
Speaker 5: blankety blank whatever it is, it's usually something for like
Speaker 5: his motorcycle or something. He's like, can I get this
Speaker 5: for my motorcycle? I'm like, good news. We've been saving
Speaker 5: money for this exact event. You can get whatever you
Speaker 5: want for your motorcycle, as long as the money's in
Speaker 5: the account, and he just like his eyes laid up.
Speaker 5: He's like really like, yes, of course you can. And
Speaker 5: it doesn't throw off our budget or anything like that,
Speaker 5: because it's always been put away for him and so
Speaker 5: for him when I can kind of accept that he
Speaker 5: wants to spend money without giving him like a lot
Speaker 5: of pushback, and obviously like that motorcycle things are expensive
Speaker 5: and we've been saving for that, so this was a
Speaker 5: planned thing, but like it's still to him, is me
Speaker 5: kind of speaking that love language for him, of understanding
Speaker 5: that spending is something that he likes to do and
Speaker 5: it's inherent for him. And so again still kind of
Speaker 5: going back to like the therapy of if you ever
Speaker 5: feel like you can't have a conversation about something, that
Speaker 5: should be a red flag, Like if you feel like
Speaker 5: you can't talk to your partner, whether it's your spouse
Speaker 5: or just like a long term partner, if you feel
Speaker 5: like you can't talk to them about something, then maybe
Speaker 5: there's like a point where you would want to go
Speaker 5: to therapy without having seen like maybe you're overspending or
Speaker 5: maybe you're hiding finances but if you feel like you
Speaker 5: can't talk to them, that would be that situation. But
Speaker 5: for us being able to kind of meet each other
Speaker 5: halfway in our spending and or savingness personality, it's been
Speaker 5: really helpful.
Speaker 1: It sounds like paying attention to noticing, highlighting and appreciating,
Speaker 1: valuing what is not in the.
Speaker 3: Nature of the other person.
Speaker 1: For you pointing out and verbalizing, oh, gosh, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for having your sights on saving I know
Speaker 1: that's not like obviously you've worked on that. And for
Speaker 1: him to appreciate you and saying spent absolutely freedom for
Speaker 1: that and to not that the permission is yours to give,
Speaker 1: but for him to know that you support him in
Speaker 1: that and you're not going to hold this grudge over
Speaker 1: him for having spent is beautiful.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love that too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, Jill, I want to hear yours.
Speaker 1: Yes. So, speaking of keeping my side of the street clean,
Speaker 1: Oh so this pairs with self understanding. I have learned,
Speaker 1: not just in finances but other aspects of life that
Speaker 1: if I feel as though a message is important and
Speaker 1: I have a tendency to overdramatize or inflate the situation,
Speaker 1: I feel as though I need to make it larger
Speaker 1: than it is in order for you to actually grasp
Speaker 1: the reality of what it is, like, it needs to
Speaker 1: be overinflated, because that's how I think you'll actually then
Speaker 1: measure it rightly. It's like telling someone who's always late
Speaker 1: to something that it starts super early.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's basically, how can I make this matter to
Speaker 4: you as well? Yeah, so let me make it a
Speaker 4: bigger deal, because otherwise I'm afraid it won't matter to
Speaker 4: you like it matters to me.
Speaker 1: And I think I put everyone in that box like
Speaker 1: everyone's going to be late, so I need to tell
Speaker 1: everybody that it's happening. It's not necessarily based on the person.
Speaker 1: It's more so me that I think I need to
Speaker 1: overinflate important messages. So my husband, we've been married eleven
Speaker 1: years now, he knows this about me, and it works
Speaker 1: the opposite as a result, because he knows that I
Speaker 1: over inflate things, he then will like minimize it so
Speaker 1: much like it won't. So I have learned that I
Speaker 1: need to be very specific and factual about what it
Speaker 1: actually is and not not become even heightened or elevated
Speaker 1: in the way that I'm portraying it, because then it
Speaker 1: could sound very doom and gloom. So, for instance, this
Speaker 1: is quite vulnerable. I'll try and make it quick. We
Speaker 1: recently had a tax bill that was unexpected, which felt
Speaker 1: a little bit shameful for me being in the personal
Speaker 1: finance space, like how did I not see this coming? Anyhow,
Speaker 1: I'm over it now to the point where I'm able
Speaker 1: to share it to the masses that yes, here I
Speaker 1: am co host of a personal finance podcast for five
Speaker 1: years and unexpected tax bill, but it did cause us,
Speaker 1: my husband and I need to tighten the belt buckles
Speaker 1: for over the past couple of months to reply some
Speaker 1: of our coffers, and I did my best in that
Speaker 1: situation to be like, here's the reality. Here's how much
Speaker 1: it took out of this savings bucket. Here's where I
Speaker 1: want to get it back up to based on our
Speaker 1: surplus each month. Here's how long I think it's gonna
Speaker 1: take us, and what we're going to need to do
Speaker 1: in order to see that. And I think for him
Speaker 1: seeing the actual numbers, me not over inflating and just
Speaker 1: using these words with no tethering of it's really bad.
Speaker 3: We can never go out. Aha, We're gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 3: lock you in your room.
Speaker 6: And don't even look at anything on the computer that
Speaker 6: you might be able to buy, and give me all
Speaker 6: your credit cards, but actually help like inviting him into
Speaker 6: the because I'm the one who handles our personal finances,
Speaker 6: but actually showing him the numbers and giving him the
Speaker 6: real data on how we're gonna get there.
Speaker 1: That has helped us tremendously, and it has allowed us
Speaker 1: to have a very life conversation about where we're not
Speaker 1: becoming emotionally heightened.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh my gosh, that's I love that. I picture
Speaker 4: you putting together like a PowerPoint presentation and presenting it
Speaker 4: on the TV. You'd be like, Okay, here's the truth
Speaker 4: of where we are. Our tax bill was this much.
Speaker 4: This is how much we took out a saving he
Speaker 4: should cover the tax bill. Now we're going to take
Speaker 4: that number of times six, Well, it's going to take
Speaker 4: I can totally picture you and clicker, clicker.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, I'm like muzzling the lion inside of me that
Speaker 1: wants to be like, we have to stop, because because
Speaker 1: it's still there, I have to temper it inside myself
Speaker 1: so that he can actually receive the message. The way
Speaker 1: that it makes sense to him, and oh.
Speaker 4: You know what you could do is you could put
Speaker 4: in the PowerPoint presentation on the inside this is how
Speaker 4: I feel, and the bottom corner pasa like roaring out
Speaker 4: along the city, and you'd be like, however, this is
Speaker 4: what I'm going to this is how this conversation. Yes,
Speaker 4: And it could be like yeah, it could be like
Speaker 4: hakuna matata, like we're gonna get along and it's gonna
Speaker 4: be a wonderful conversation. Let's move into the facts and
Speaker 4: the numbers here.
Speaker 3: They need to be our therapist and I can do this.
Speaker 4: And I actually I'll just be your partner. Can I
Speaker 4: just be your partner in it? We'll just kick him out, please,
Speaker 4: you think Eric out, He's out of here.
Speaker 5: I'm in.
Speaker 4: Allison's in. I'm gonna have so much fun making financial
Speaker 4: presentations with you about our money.
Speaker 3: Show me the money that's all I need.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna show it to you in a PowerPoint beautiful.
Speaker 1: Well, I hope that for our listeners there's some sort
Speaker 1: of you find yourself in one of us, Caroline, Allison
Speaker 1: or myself, and you got some sort of tip about
Speaker 1: how to have these hard conversations without keeping secrets and Caroline,
Speaker 1: You've got such a great story and so many stories
Speaker 1: that relate to personal finances, and you're helping people in
Speaker 1: so many ways.
Speaker 3: Where can people get more from you?
Speaker 5: You can go to you my website, it's Carolyne Mensel
Speaker 5: dot com and there's a bunch of I have so
Speaker 5: many freebies. I have so many blog posts about frugality
Speaker 5: and saving and not all of them, I swear not
Speaker 5: all of them are just based off of like a
Speaker 5: spend or a saver mindset, like they're actually for people
Speaker 5: who can do anything with their money. But it's a yeah,
Speaker 5: Carolynvensel dot com, go sand a bunch of freebies.
Speaker 1: Do it?
Speaker 3: Do it right? Thank you?
Speaker 1: Bye ooh Allison, that felt so good.
Speaker 3: It truly.
Speaker 1: I know we get a lot of people saying, oh,
Speaker 1: it feels like a conversation amongst friends, and that's because
Speaker 1: it is a conversation and it is friends. But I
Speaker 1: forgot for a good couple of times that we were
Speaker 1: on a podcast recording, it just felt like, share your
Speaker 1: story with.
Speaker 3: Me and what worked and what didn't.
Speaker 1: And I think just I especially the three of us,
Speaker 1: being able to talk about our experiences with sharing finances
Speaker 1: with another person and running a household and the pitfalls
Speaker 1: in that, but then some of the things that have
Speaker 1: gone really well. I feel like there's so much I
Speaker 1: am going to continue to chew on in this episode.
Speaker 3: I do too.
Speaker 4: I love also how Caroline was willing to say, look,
Speaker 4: this is what I did. It might not be what
Speaker 4: I would do now, because we all make decisions with
Speaker 4: our money and our spouses that that, in hindsight, looking back,
Speaker 4: maybe they weren't the best. And I love that she's
Speaker 4: able to do that but then still be vulnerable enough
Speaker 4: to share her message and say like, hey, this is
Speaker 4: what I did. It did have a happy ending, it
Speaker 4: ended up working, but if I were to go back
Speaker 4: and navigate it differently, this is what I would do instead.
Speaker 4: So I love that vulnerability piece of it, because she
Speaker 4: very well could just be like, this is what I
Speaker 4: did and everyone should do it, and of course it worked,
Speaker 4: but she knows that that's not how it's going to
Speaker 4: work for everyone.
Speaker 1: So I love that or the opposite of keeping it
Speaker 1: hidden because it doesn't sound so great. I kept a
Speaker 1: secret from my husband and it worked out for me.
Speaker 1: But I think that you know, there any time we're
Speaker 1: vulnerable and we share some of these personal stories, especially
Speaker 1: where we might have done things differently, there can be
Speaker 1: a lot of backlash and opinions on that. I think
Speaker 1: she did a great job describing what worked what didn't.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think I just I commend anybody who's
Speaker 1: going to because it pulls the curtain back and it
Speaker 1: gives permission for others who find themselves in these situations
Speaker 1: where they might have done something or be doing something
Speaker 1: out of desperation and trying to find the solution to
Speaker 1: this problem that seems insurmountable and I can't really find
Speaker 1: my way through it to recognize, Okay, well there's someone
Speaker 1: who's been here before, and what would they recommend to me?
Speaker 1: And so, yes, thank you Caroline, Yes, thank you all
Speaker 1: who are listening for listening. Your listen means so much
Speaker 1: to us. And we also want to let you all
Speaker 1: know that we have a membership for you listeners that
Speaker 1: it is chalk full of other frugal friends who are
Speaker 1: paying off debt, where we do monthly money challenges, which
Speaker 1: is a really fun way to gamify our finances, help
Speaker 1: us get at our savings spending goals even and it
Speaker 1: offers accountability groups which is amazing for that community value
Speaker 1: that we know is so important in achieving some of
Speaker 1: those financial goals, whether it's paying off debt or saving
Speaker 1: you name it, and we want to congratulate one of
Speaker 1: our members for a big win. This comes from Emmer's
Speaker 1: n It's titled I paid off my stuff.
Speaker 5: Finally, Finally. I love that.
Speaker 4: Finally.
Speaker 1: I recently got approved for helock. Is that how you
Speaker 1: pronounce it?
Speaker 4: That is how you pronounce it? HI Equity line of credit.
Speaker 1: Thank you, so I could pay off my high interest
Speaker 1: cards and look into getting a two car garage potential
Speaker 1: is still working on that last one. Without even using
Speaker 1: any money from the heelock. I managed to pay all
Speaker 1: of my cards. I know I will have some purchases
Speaker 1: to pay off like groceries, et cetera. But I finally
Speaker 1: have enough of my checking to take care of it
Speaker 1: and still have plenty left over. I'm hoping to start
Speaker 1: saving and also continue to pay down some other debt
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 3: Oh my gratulation.
Speaker 4: Congratulation Emmers. That is amazing, especially those cards like oh
Speaker 4: that credit card interest rate. I always say this, it
Speaker 4: is soul sucking, and you were like, Nope, no more,
Speaker 4: You're not taking my money, You're not taking my happiness.
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously, credit cards can never like no one
Speaker 4: else can ever take your happiness. You have control over
Speaker 4: that yourself, talk about it with your therapist. But all
Speaker 4: of that to say, congratulations, I'm so excited for you.
Speaker 4: I know that it's just like a weight lifted off
Speaker 4: of your shoulders.
Speaker 1: Thanks again everyone for being here with us. If you
Speaker 1: want to check out our membership and get to hang
Speaker 1: out with cool people like emmers and who's paying paying
Speaker 1: off these credit cards and where we have all these
Speaker 1: courses and interviews and challenges and so much more. It's fun,
Speaker 1: because it's not Frugal Friends. If it's not fun, head
Speaker 1: to Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash club.
Speaker 3: Check it out. See if it's right for you.
Speaker 4: Yes, and we'll see you next time. I mean I
Speaker 4: won't be back next time. But is Jen coming back
Speaker 4: next time?
Speaker 1: Uh No, this episode is not. We didn't record an order.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, well, bye bye.
Speaker 5: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, well, it says five nineteen and then it
Speaker 4: says five me you're also oh is five sixteen, so
Speaker 4: you are on future episodes. I am Oh, okay, I thought,
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: If you're.
Speaker 4: Oh, this is episode I'm sorry, you're right, this is
Speaker 4: the last episode you're on. So she comes back after this.
Speaker 1: And then we have another stand in co host. Oh really,
Speaker 1: she comes back?
Speaker 3: I know. Okay, So who those are already recorded? Chloe, Okay,
Speaker 3: here's your secret.
Speaker 1: I'm the first one revealing salacious secrets to our listeners
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 4: Oh wait, they're here.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're gonna this is the after after show
Speaker 1: for the true die fans who stay tuned after the music.
Speaker 3: You think it's all over, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not.
Speaker 4: Okay, So I'm first, and then Chloe, and then.
Speaker 1: J Jin comes back to be with us.
Speaker 4: She's gonna love it.
Speaker 3: She's gonna be listed so much. I know.
Speaker 1: I did text her the other day. I needed something
Speaker 1: from her. I'm I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4: Hold on, she just had a baby's caring for a toddler,
Speaker 4: and you're like, can you do something for me please?
Speaker 4: I know you're a little busy, you're kind of like
Speaker 4: being a cow right now to a whole human being,
Speaker 4: But if you could just like bake me a dozen
Speaker 4: cookies because I need that, that would be helpful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's exactly what it was. I
Speaker 3: was asking her labor.
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: She gave me full permission, and I can't I can't
Speaker 1: reveal all of the reasons, but rest assured it was
Speaker 1: a very reasonable reason, okay, and she wanted me to
Speaker 1: contact her when this reasonable reason came up. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I still said, I I am sorry to
Speaker 1: bother you, but I need you to.
Speaker 3: Look at X y Z.
Speaker 1: And her response was where I thought it was gonna
Speaker 1: be what you were describing. Instead, she says, this is
Speaker 1: so amazing. I haven't been needed by anyone over the
Speaker 1: age of four in six weeks.
Speaker 4: Good, good, good, it is. It is there's something different
Speaker 4: about like, I mean shout out to stay at home moms,
Speaker 4: like I love it. I actually wanted to do it,
Speaker 4: but couldn't financially afford it. But it's there's something about
Speaker 4: being needed by an adult and not even needed as
Speaker 4: an adult. But I almost like collaborating on a like
Speaker 4: as a team with someone other than your partner or
Speaker 4: your spouse. It's just fun.
Speaker 3: It's just allows it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's and it's just a different type of
Speaker 4: purposeful And because especially because being a mom can be
Speaker 4: so draining. When you have a purpose, you know something else,
Speaker 4: it's like, oh okay, Like it gives you your brain
Speaker 4: a moment to turn off from that other part.
Speaker 3: Yes, I get it.
Speaker 1: Different avenues, different outlets for life and expression of self.
Speaker 1: And if it's only expression of self with little ones,
Speaker 1: then yeah, there can feel like an aspect of you missing.
Speaker 4: That's why it's always good for people to have hobbies.
Speaker 4: What is a hobby of yours?
Speaker 3: Do you have a hobby? Work?
Speaker 6: Hobby?
Speaker 3: Gardening?
Speaker 1: I think I would put under that category. I really
Speaker 1: enjoy being outdoors, digging in the dirt.
Speaker 3: What about you.
Speaker 4: I have gotten into embroidery like a grandma.
Speaker 1: Yes, are you hanging it on your walls?
Speaker 3: So I am?
Speaker 4: You want to see one? Yes, please, I am hanging
Speaker 4: it on my walls somewhat, but I'm giving it.
Speaker 3: That's adorable, isn't it.
Speaker 4: So I don't have enough space in my home to
Speaker 4: hang all of these, so I've started giving them away. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so I do this. It keeps me off of my phone.
Speaker 4: I have ADHD, so it gives my hands something to
Speaker 4: do in the evening. My hat, my husband and I
Speaker 4: we put our kiss of bed and we watch one
Speaker 4: show together, or watch like one hour of TV together.
Speaker 4: And instead of me scrolling on my phone because my
Speaker 4: hands the movement, I'm embroidering. And then I'm my goal.
Speaker 4: I was actually talking with Jen and Caroline and I said,
Speaker 4: what do I do with all this stuff? They said,
Speaker 4: will take one? Like you should make them for friends.
Speaker 4: So I'm going to start sending them out to friends
Speaker 4: and family. So I gave son to my grandma. I
Speaker 4: gave one to my mom, and I just said, do
Speaker 4: you want me to make you one?
Speaker 1: I would not turn that down. That's adorable, lesson. I
Speaker 1: can still make it in the podcast. It's like an
Speaker 1: embroidered plant mac or may thing. It's beautiful.
Speaker 4: It's really cute and bases kind of like it's like
Speaker 4: a light pink, very light pink. So anyway, this is
Speaker 4: my favorite one I've done. I'm almost just like, let
Speaker 4: me just get a whole bunch of these because people
Speaker 4: like this one, and I'll just send them out to people.
Speaker 4: But then I am also nervous because I don't want
Speaker 4: to be like, here's how to decorate your home.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: This belongs Hang this up you have to do it
Speaker 4: because your home is ugly. I need to make it cuter.
Speaker 4: Like I'm like, where's the balance, Like I don't I
Speaker 4: just have something. I just have something I think you'd
Speaker 4: like and I don't have a space for it. But
Speaker 4: I put love and hard work into it.
Speaker 3: I love but get a hobby. Okay, bye, you like it?
Speaker 3: It's pretty, huh.
Speaker 4: I love it.