WEBVTT - What is Section 230? 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to text Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.880 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.200 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:23.000 and I love all things tech And what if websites 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:27.160 were held responsible for the content that other people post 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:31.200 to those websites. What if after a customer left a 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:35.440 bad review for a product online, the company that makes 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:40.960 that product would sue Amazon for hosting the review. What 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.319 if that company that makes the thing, what if they 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.720 won that lawsuit. What if Facebook were liable for the 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:52.800 posts made by its two billion users worldwide. If sites 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.440 were held accountable for the content that users and third 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.320 parties posted to them, we would not have the ornet 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:07.840 we have today. In fact, companies and organizations like Wikipedia, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.479 even Google wouldn't exist, or at least they wouldn't exist 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.720 in the forms they do today if that were the case. Now, 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.000 if you live in the United States, you might have 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:21.000 heard a bit about a section to thirty. Even if 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.480 you're outside the United States, you might have heard some 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.840 references to it. Now, if you're only casually following the 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.240 news or you just here section to thirty in passing, 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:34.120 it's probably pretty confusing. It clearly has something to do 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:39.440 with technology and liability and communication. President Donald Trump called 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:43.280 upon Congress to revoke it several times now, even threatening 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:47.360 to veto the funding of the National Defense Authorization Act 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:52.520 unless Congress repealed Section to thirty. But Trump is not 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:56.880 the only politician to call out this legislation. Representatives from 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.640 both the Republican and Democrat parties have proposed those changes 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.400 or even the outright elimination of Section to thirty over 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.240 the years. Heck, President elect Joe Biden has also called 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.120 upon the need to revoke to thirty. And if you 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.240 live in America, you might be surprised to hear that 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.880 Trump and Biden have agreed on something, though I guess 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.760 it's fair to point out they agree on the end result, 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:24.720 but for very different motivations. So in today's episode, I 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.320 want to talk about what Section to thirty is, where 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.880 it came from, what its purpose was and is, and 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.040 why there's so much discussion about the need to change 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.560 or get rid of it from various viewpoints across the 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.800 political spectrum. And I'll do my best to avoid any 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.680 political commentary, but I do want to say that the 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:50.080 motivations behind these various calls for change. They very a 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.079 great deal. I think a lot of folks in politics 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.720 agree that section to thy needs some attention, but they 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.600 don't all agree as to the reasons why or how 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.880 it should be done. So we're gonna get into all 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.240 of that. And before we jump in, I want to 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:08.800 recommend an amazing resource. It's a book by Jeff Kossa 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:13.000 titled The Twenty six Words That Created the Internet, and 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.760 it's all about section to thirty, from the genesis of 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.920 the idea to the implementation of Section two thirty in 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.919 court cases. And it's also a really good read, which 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.800 is a weird thing to say about a book centering 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.200 on a subsection of a huge telecommunications bill. I should 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:34.480 also add as a trigger warning that book discusses some 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:39.600 cases that deal with some really heavy, dark stuff. To 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:45.240 thirty has been tested in some really emotionally charged cases 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:50.680 that include truly awful things that have happened to people, 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.880 So fair warning if you do want to check that 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.240 book out and give it a read. Now. At the 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.960 heart of all of this are concepts like free speed, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:05.520 each which has very wide protection in America, and liability 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:10.880 that is being held accountable legally accountable for something. Because 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.280 while there are broad protections for freedom of speech, it 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.320 is not absolute. There are some forms of speech and 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:21.640 expression that are not protected under the First Amendment. And 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:26.240 that's because free speech sometimes bumps up against other important 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:30.120 things like security or privacy, that kind of thing. So 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.760 it's one of those things where it's not pure black 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:37.719 and white. There's some shades of gray. Now, let's find 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.120 out what section to thirty is. And it's called Section 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.360 two thirty, so that suggests it's part of something bigger. Right, 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.520 it's a section of something. Well that it's a section 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.160 of a larger piece of legislation, and that piece was 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:55.000 the Communications Decency Act. So let's turn back the hands 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.440 of the clock a bit. Heck, maybe i'll maybe I'll 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.400 dust off the old text of time Machine for this one. 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:06.000 I don't think we've actually used it in years. Fortunately, 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.760 I did bring it home with me when our office 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.480 went into lockdown, so it's really just taking up space 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.800 in the corner. Hang on, hang on a second. I'm 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:16.320 just gonna get it out. I gotta move a couple 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:29.360 of things. Be right back. Alright, alright, so I've got it. Now, 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.200 let me set the dial back to uh, let's see 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.960 nineteen all right, Okay, here we go, everybody in, come on, 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.200 let's all get into the time machine. All right, Ready, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:57.440 push the button, Frank, and here we are. It's The 0:05:57.560 --> 0:05:59.760 number one hit single of the year is hold On 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.080 by Wilson Phillips, a song I'm not ashamed to say 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.520 I absolutely loved at the time, shows like Cheers, A 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.680 Different World and Murphy Brown, or on television that the 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.960 box office, the film Ghost comes out on top, with 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.479 Home Alone not far behind. But we're not here to 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:20.120 see the awkward transition of the nineteen eighties transform into 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.480 the nineteen nineties. Now, we're here to learn about how 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.360 US law would view the role of online platforms now 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.920 back in where we are now, the Internet isn't really 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.599 a thing as far as the mainstream public is concerned. 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.680 It exists, but hardly anyone knows very much about it 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:43.760 Outside of research facilities and government offices. There's no such 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.920 thing as the Worldwide Web. Yet, However, there are a 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:52.240 few big online service providers or OSPs. Now these are 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.479 sort of the predecessors to Internet Service providers or I 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.200 s p s, and OSP is kind of like its 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:03.039 own micro internet, though really, we would just kind of 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:04.719 call it a network. So think of it as a 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:09.039 self contained collection of servers that hosts stuff like forums 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.040 and newsletters and articles and files, and you're on the 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.440 right track, and they don't necessarily talk to each other, 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.080 so they're kind of self contained. Well, one of those 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.000 big OSPs is compu Serve, and it's going to get 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.760 taken to court. At the heart of the matter is 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:29.800 an accusation of libel that is, uh, a misinformation with 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:34.200 the intent to cause harm that's in print. The plaintiffs, 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:38.440 Robert Blanchard and a company called Cubby Incorporated, have developed 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:43.160 a news and rumors service called scuttle Butt, which focuses 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:47.600 on the radio and TV industries. Now, according to the plaintiffs, 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.880 a newsletter that is also that's called Rumorville USA, which 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.880 also covers rumors in the TV and radio spaces, has 0:07:55.960 --> 0:08:00.680 published untrue and harmful things about scuttle Butt, and Rumorville 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:05.160 is available on compu Serve. So the plaintiffs targeted not 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.720 just Rumorville, but compu Serve in their lawsuits. So they 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:13.480 say compu Serve is responsible because it allows the distribution 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.920 of Rumorville, which in turn has published libelous content about 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:22.560 scuttle butt. So the lawyers representing Company Serve argue that 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:26.120 the service has no connection to Rumorville other than as 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.160 serving as a way for people to get the newsletter. 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:32.199 In other words, compu Service saying, hey, we don't write that. 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.680 We just have it on our service, but we don't 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:40.400 write it. There's no there's no employment here to generate 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:44.760 that newsletter. Compu Serve isn't involved editorially in the newsletter 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.439 at all. It just comes from another company. That company 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:52.400 is Don Fitzpatrick Associates of San Francisco, and it's referred 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.560 to in the court documents as d f A. Compu 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.560 Serve did not employ this company or pay for this 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.000 news letter. And moreover, according to the agreement between compy 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.960 Serve and d f A, d f A accepts full 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.800 responsibility for the contents of its newsletter. So compy serves 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.559 lawyers go and make a motion for a summary judgment, 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:17.280 which in this case was to dismiss the the the charges, 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.200 just for the court to make a decision on behalf 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.640 of one party against another party without the need to 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.640 go to a full trial. And the judge grants this 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:30.559 to Compy Serve. And the judge agrees that compu Serve 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.000 did not bear responsibility for the contents of this newsletter. 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:36.760 The judge says that compu Serve is kind of like 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:41.080 a bookstore, and you wouldn't hold a bookstore responsible for 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.760 the contents of a book that was published by a 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.000 third party just because it happens to be in that bookstore. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.440 The bookstore is just that's where customers can buy books. 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.560 The store did not put the actual content into the books, 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.120 and this becomes a precedent that would serve as a 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:02.599 foundational building block for section to thirty later. All right, everyone, um, 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.080 we're done here. Let's all jump back in the time machine. 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:06.920 Come out, no stragglers. I don't want to have to 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.520 come back to lived through it. Once we're done. We 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:12.440 got a hop forward a couple of years. Okay, ready 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:29.160 push the button. All right, now we're in. So now 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.640 the number one song in America would be Ace of 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.840 Bases the Sign which I don't know about you, but 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.520 it opened up my eyes. I'm happy now. Seinfeld is 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.840 dominating TV ratings and the big movies at the box 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.319 office are The Lion King and Forest Gumps. So what 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.280 are we doing here? And now, well, this time we've 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.760 got another lawsuit, but this is one that's against a 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:57.920 different osp called Prodigy. Now. Like compu Serve, Prodigy hosts 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:02.280 stuff like forums and articles and their services on one forum, 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:07.040 and anonymous user alleged that a securities firm named Stratton 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:12.920 Oakmont was committing fraud in a stock offering and Stratton 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:17.959 Stratton Oakmont would sue Prodigy for liabel. Now, Prodigies lawyers 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:22.120 said that we shouldn't be held responsible for the content 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.199 that's posted by a third party by a Prodigy user, 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.720 and they cited the CompuServe ruling that came back a 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:32.920 few years earlier. But the judge in this case disagrees 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:38.599 with Prodigies lawyers. They rule against the service, and the 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:43.080 judge says that Prodigy exercised editorial control over the forums. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:47.600 The service could and did remove material that was objectionable. 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.560 Unlike CompuServe, which had taken largely a hands off approach 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.480 to the stuff that was published on CompuServe, Prodigy got 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:59.400 more involved and would remove things that were in violation 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:04.400 of you know, community standards, and therefore that made Prodigy 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.440 not like a bookstore and made them more like a 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.560 publication like a newspaper, and the editorial control means that 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.800 Prodigy would have to assume responsibility for stuff that appeared 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.280 on the service. After all, if Prodigy intervenes in some cases, 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.160 it means it could and should have intervened in other cases, 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:27.280 like with Strattonoqumont. So we have that nine one decision 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.160 that says a platform is not responsible for third party 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:34.719 content published on that platform. But then we have a 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:39.960 nineteen five decision that seems to contradict that if the 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:45.000 platform exercised any sort of content management, that means that 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.520 they can be held liable. And I know we traveled 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.640 to nine respectively, but court cases can take a really 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.600 long time. So the decisions were actually handed down a 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.840 year after the initial lawsuits started. I'm sorry that we 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.360 all had to wait around so long for that. Well, 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:06.600 this created a precarious situation for online companies because the 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.080 message seemed to be that if you provided a space 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.440 for users and third parties to post stuff, it would 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.080 best suit you if you just never ever interfered with that, 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:19.440 regardless of what gets posted to the platform, because intervening 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.200 would be a slippery slope if you start removing content, 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:27.520 even stuff that clearly should not be there, like videos 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:32.640 of violence, or pornography, or death threats, or or personal 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.680 information of other users, whatever it might be. If you 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:40.040 remove it, no matter how obviously awful it is, you 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.720 create a precedent in which you are acting in an 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.000 editorial capacity. And if you can do that, then are 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.280 you really free of liability when someone posts something that's 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:54.120 libelous or otherwise illegal. And remember this is the mid nineties. 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:58.000 The online world hadn't even really started to take off yet, 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.080 so there was a real concern that we would see 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.680 a big negative impact, a chilling effect on the founding 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.959 and evolution of online businesses. Considering that people had generally 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.200 come to the belief that the internet was going to 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.720 be the future of business, or at least an important 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.600 component of business, this was a bad thing. Now, if 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.480 you guys pay attention out there, you probably know that 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:27.840 politicians typically lag behind big issues and technology. Technology changes 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.400 much faster than policies do. And a lot of politicians 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.680 in this country are in the United States, Um, how 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:39.120 do I put this delicately? They're old, Like a lot 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.760 of them are really old. The average age, the average 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:48.240 age of a congress person is twenty years older than 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:53.080 the average American in the average age of a representative 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:58.000 is fifty seven. For senators it's sixty one. And generally speaking, 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.320 older generations are a little a slower to pick up 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:05.160 on technological advances than younger ones. Now there are exceptions 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.040 to this, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:11.520 be agist here, but as a general rule, older people 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:15.120 are less up to speed on emerging technologies. I think 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.000 that rule applies double when it comes to politicians from 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:23.240 my own anecdotal experience, which I get isn't really evidence. 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.600 So while this was a growing concern within the tech world, 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.640 only a couple of politicians really picked up on how 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.440 these court decisions could create an issue and impede the 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.880 growth of online services in those early days. Now, that 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:42.359 pair included a Democrat named Ron Wyden and a Republican 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:46.920 named Chris Cox, who wanted to create legislation full stop. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.880 They both wanted to make their mark, they wanted to 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.720 pass some laws, but at this particular time in American 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.880 history where it was really hard to do that because 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:02.360 partisan politics were any vicious at the time. I think 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.480 they were gentle as a kitten compared to today's politics, 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.600 but at the time it was considered pretty brutal, and 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.280 that meant there was very little chance to get agreement 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.160 across the aisle. Republicans at the time controlled both the 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.680 House and the Senate. In Congress in the United States 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.000 are our Congress is divided up into two branches, the 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:27.680 House of Representatives and the Senate. And a Democrat was president, 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:32.120 so president and a Republican Congress, and they figured. These 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.520 two people figured that their best chance at making an 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.000 impact was to find a topic that was so new, 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.840 so cutting edge that neither party had actually formed an 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.920 opinion about it. Yet the Internet was a perfect target. 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.520 And this, my friends, drives me bonkers because it points 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.480 out that the writing of section to thirty didn't begin 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.200 with politicians identifying an issue and then finding a way 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.320 to solve it. Instead, it was a case of a 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:04.400 couple of politicians trying to figure out what sort of problem, 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.600 any problem, could they find where they could potentially tackle 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.280 it and get their names on some legislation. Uh. It's 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.199 probably being a little unfair, but it is sort of 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.080 the reality of politics, and from a practical standpoint, I 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.480 get it. But it's also kind of disillusioning to me. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.280 The pair determined that they would have a decent chance 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.120 at proposing legislation that would protect online services from being 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.199 sued for the content that other people were posting to 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:33.359 those services, plus give the services the freedom to moderate 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.679 content without fear of being sued for that. Either. The 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.919 Internet was so new and the potential was so huge 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:42.960 that they felt that this was a pretty good bet, 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.399 so they drafted out a proposed piece of legislation that 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:50.920 they called the Internet Freedom and Family Empowerment Act. It 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:55.400 would ultimately have as its core principle the following quote. 0:17:56.160 --> 0:18:00.120 No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.639 be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:08.960 provided by another information content provider. End quote. Now. In addition, 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.480 the piece has what has been called the good faith section, 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.240 which states that platforms will not be held liable for 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:20.400 quote any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:24.600 access to or availability of material that the provider or 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:31.679 user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:36.879 or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected. 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.040 End quote. Now when we come back, we'll learn more 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.960 about what this actually means from a practical sense. But 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:54.120 first let's take a quick break. So on the face 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:58.400 of it, Section two thirty is fairly simple. You cannot 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.040 hold someone or thing, in the case of a platform, 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:06.120 as the person responsible for what someone else or something 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:11.000 else says on that platform. So that applies to the 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.960 services and the users. If I'm on a forum and 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.480 I'm making an argument for a certain point of view 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.000 and someone else joins them with libelious accusations about a 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.760 third person, it would be unreasonable to hold me accountable 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.639 for that other person's words. Right, I didn't say the 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:30.000 libelous thing, why would I be responsible for it. I 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.040 might have started the discussion thread, I might have initiated 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.359 the conversation, But if I didn't actually say anything libelous, 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:40.000 then I shouldn't be held responsible. Right. Well, that same protection, 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:45.200 according to this legislation, would apply to online platforms. In addition, 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.719 the platforms would be able to make their own moderation 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:52.480 policies and not be held liable if the platform removed 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:56.920 something that would otherwise be constitutionally protected. So, in other words, 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:01.760 if Facebook removed a post because it violated a Facebook standard, 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.920 even if that post would otherwise be protected constitutionally, Facebook 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.560 would not be held liable as long as that removal 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.760 was done in good faith. Now, in at the time 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.480 that Cox and Widen were putting together their proposal in 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:19.320 the House of Representatives, there was another piece of legislation 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.280 under consideration that aimed at the issue of pornography online. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.400 But that was taking place over in the US Senate, 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.639 and this piece tried to treat online content in a 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.080 way similar to how the US government regulates content on 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:37.200 TV and on radio broadcasts. There was a growing concern 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:42.160 about the availability the accessibility of pornographic and obscene material. 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.879 Obscenity in this case would fall under a pretty conservative definition, 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.840 like you know, kind of like beauty, obscenity is in 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:51.960 the eye of the beholder. It's one of those things 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:53.919 that you know it when you see it. That's kind 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.960 of the famous quote in US history. But the proposed 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:02.000 legislation would criminalize the act of exposing those under eighteen 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.639 to obscene or pornographic materials online. Now, I should say 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:08.760 it covered instances in which the age of the recipient 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:13.199 or at least they're under eighteen status would have to 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:15.640 be known to the person or entity sending the material 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.560 for this to be relevant. The proposed legislation went a 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:22.959 bit further than that too, with sections related to speech 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:27.720 that is indecent but not obscene. Again, really weird gray 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:31.480 area territory here, but the language raised some concerns among 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.600 civil liberties organizations, so people made some pretty strong arguments 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:40.359 against this Senate version of the idea. For example, in 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.359 the medical industry, there's terminology that some people might define 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:49.399 as indecent that's absolutely critical for legitimate medical communication in 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:53.679 clear terms, So sites that provide useful information for sensitive 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:58.800 topics like educating people about sexually transmitted diseases or resources 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:00.920 for people who are in the g b t Q 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:05.080 plus communities, all that could be at risk if you 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:09.680 allowed this kind of legislation to go forward. So Ron 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:12.480 Wyden and Chris Cox were positioning their proposal in the 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.320 House of Representatives as kind of an alternative to the 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.760 approach that was being talked about in the Senate. They 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.440 suggested that online platforms have the ability to moderate content 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:25.080 on their sites without the risk of being held liable 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.760 for the stuff that people and other parties were posting 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.840 to those sites, And according to Kasaf, their idea met 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:37.040 with no resistance. In fact, barely anyone even noticed. In 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:41.280 the United States, the way Congress creates new laws requires 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:44.840 both the House of Representatives and the Senate to vote 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.840 on the legislation and approve it before sending that piece 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:51.720 on to the President to be signed into law or 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:55.159 potentially vetoed. In a case where both the House and 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:58.719 the Senate are working on something similar but distinct as 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:01.959 far as legislation goes, those two versions have to be 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:05.080 hashed out in committee to create a more unified approach. 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:09.120 Both the Communications Decency Act out of the Senate and 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:11.600 what would become Section to thirty in the House of 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:15.879 Representatives would ultimately be lumped in with the overall discussions 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:20.879 of what would become the Telecommunications Act of NIX. Most 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:24.600 of Congress was really focused on the other elements of 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:28.520 the Telecommunications Act. The stuff that related to telephone companies 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:33.120 and telephone infrastructure and cable companies and the Internet portions 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:35.520 were more of an afterthought. It was so new that 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:37.400 a lot of people weren't really thinking about that. They 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:39.600 were thinking, no, the futures and long distance phone calls, 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:42.560 Gosh darn't it. And so both the c d A 0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:45.199 which had support due to it being positioned as a 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:49.560 piece of legislation that was advocating for family values, which, boy, 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.400 was that a big, big point of discussion in the nineties. 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:55.400 And then Section to thirty, which was positioned as protecting 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:59.840 new and a vulnerable industry. Both of them made it through. 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:03.399 So in the end, the language that would become Section 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:06.800 to thirty and the alternative proposal which would become the 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:10.680 online portions of the Communications Decency Act would be bound 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:13.679 together to form kind of a vultron like construction of 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:18.920 online policy. Now, the Telecommunications Act is enormous. It's a 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:22.879 beast of a law, covering stuff like telephone lines, cable television, 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:25.800 and more. Section to thirty is just a tiny part 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:30.280 of that beast. Interestingly, the anti obscenity measures in the 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:34.080 Communications Decency Act would not stand the test of time. 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:37.560 Judges would strike down large portions of it, citing issues 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:43.360 such as vague terminology like indecent and offensive without firm definitions. 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:46.840 That legislation was open to far too much subjective interpretation 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:49.639 to be useful. But while a lot of the c 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:54.040 d A would go by by Section to thirty remained intact, 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:58.320 so all that obscenity and decency stuff was gone, but 0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:01.359 that section to thirty I idea from Widen and Cox 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:03.840 was still there. It wasn't brought into question in the 0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:05.800 courts the way the parts of the c d A 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:09.800 that specifically dealt with indecency online did. But Section to 0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:13.919 thirty went untouched and it was a doozy. So with 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:19.080 Section to thirty, online services received immunization from liability regarding 0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:22.639 what their users and third parties published. Section to thirty 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:28.439 means that these entities things like Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Google, 0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:33.880 they cannot be held legally responsible for user generated content, 0:25:35.040 --> 0:25:39.480 with only the most minute exceptions, and those most of 0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:42.680 those would come much much later. It's sort of a 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:45.200 get out of jail free card. Especially in the early 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:49.199 days when drafting the language, Widen and Cox were careful 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:52.760 to avoid being too broad. Uh. The idea was that 0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:56.800