1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: From UFOs to ghosts and government cover ups. History is 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. My name is Matt and i'm Ben, 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: and today I think we should get started with a 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: little anecdote that Ben as sure, all right, So, once 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: upon a tide there was a man named Kinji Fujimoto. 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: Kiji was a chef. Kinji was a sushi chef to 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: be specific, and he was quite good at his job. 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: But he was also a member of the Union of 11 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: Sushi Chefs, and when he was young, adventurous man, they 12 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: made him a candidate for a mysterious job overseas. Now, 13 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: the rules of the union said that Kenji had to 14 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: accept this job before he knew exactly what the assignment was. 15 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: And that is how Kimji Fujimoto became the sushi chef 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: for Kim Jong Il, the leader at the time of 17 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: North Korea. Whoa oh, but wait, Kinji confirms so many 18 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: of the stories that we are going to talk about today, 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: especially regarding Kim Jong Il. Now, we don't want to 20 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: spoil the surprise, but we will say that he had 21 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: a seven hundred thousand dollar a year, Kanyak habit w 22 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: How do you consume that much? Kak? I you know what, 23 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. I assume it wasn't all him for everybody, 24 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: but he's around. Yeah. This it's like ordering cheese dip 25 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: for the table, you know, at all times, Konyak. And 26 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: let that serve as an introduction, ladies and gentlemen, you're 27 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: in the right place, we hope. Here you are again 28 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: with Matt Ben super producer, Noel the Madman Brown and 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Today, Matt, 30 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: Finally we're exploring North Korea. That's right, we're getting deep 31 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: into the DPRK. I'm excited about this one, Ben. This 32 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: is fascinating from so many angles to me, at least personally, 33 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: and we certainly hope that you find it interesting as well. Uh, 34 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: let's get started with looking at some of the history 35 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: in how North Korea was first formed, because it's a 36 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: fairly recently formed country, right, Oh yeah, you only have 37 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: to go back to nineteen at the close or just 38 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: right at the close of World War Two, when Korea 39 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: the I guess the if you look at it as 40 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: a large state together of the peninsula. It was divided 41 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: up at the parallel by the United States and the 42 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: Soviet Union, two forces that were embattled UH in the 43 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: on the Korean Peninsula. And it's called, I said, the DPRK. 44 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: You might not know this, you might already know this, 45 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: but North Korea is officially called the Democratic People's Republic 46 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: of Korea, and it was officially established on the ninth 47 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: of September nineteen And as students of history know, during 48 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: World War Two, the ally parties were definitely not the 49 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: friendly parties. It was more of an enemy of my 50 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: enemy kind of deal. So there was already this tense 51 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: situation between UH, the United States and the USS are 52 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: about which competing ideology would would rule the world. UH, 53 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: unless if if you are familiar with one of one 54 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: of your favorite things met the Highgelian dialect, right then 55 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: then maybe that's a little bit of a false dichotomy. 56 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: But that's a different show. Here's the point. The point 57 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: is that tensions were high on the peninsula, and people 58 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: knew on both sides that this would be a flashpoint, 59 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: and it eventually escalated. It did just a few years later, 60 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: from forty to nineteen fifty. It escalated into the Korean War, 61 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: which lasted from nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty three. What 62 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: kind of war was this? Well, I guess it was 63 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: somewhat of a civil war between the two Korea's because 64 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: really there they would be one unified Korea, marginous population. 65 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: But we think, and I think history has shown that 66 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: it was much more of what we would call a 67 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: proxy war between these two opposing sides. Now we we 68 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: have a video on this, but for people who haven't 69 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: seen the video, what is a product to war? It's 70 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: when to let's say, superpowers have competing interests in one area, 71 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: and rather than sending their army at least as a 72 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: whole or their military as a whole to go fight there, 73 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: they will use let's say the indigenous people of that 74 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: area or groups that are closely related that you might 75 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: be able to exert some control over and have them 76 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: fight that battle, and then maybe you can sprinkle in 77 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: a little bit of a little bit of your military 78 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: height as well, so I can help them out. Similar 79 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: to what's going what's happened in Afghanistan in the nineteen eighties, right, 80 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: very similar, which you can you can see more about 81 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: or you see it alluded to in that show The Americans, 82 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: which if you enjoy espionage, we recommend. In fact, the 83 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: Korean War was the first armed conflict of the Cold War. Yeah, 84 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: scary stuff. But what happened when the fighting ended? Because 85 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: this is this is something that a lot of people 86 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: don't know. There's a very important point here. Well. One 87 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: of the biggest important points are the number of people killed. 88 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: Over a million bowl were killed during this conflict, not 89 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: just soldiers, civilians as well. This was so many civilians. 90 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: And one of the biggest facts that will lead into 91 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: reasoning behind a lot of the stuff we're gonna talk 92 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: about is that almost every single large, especially important building 93 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: in North Korea was completely destroyed, specifically by the U. S. Army, 94 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: right the U. S. Air Force. Uh, well, completely different, 95 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: Like the Army wasn't there, It's true. But yeah, so 96 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: at the close of this war, after this this massive 97 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: toll in terms of property and human life. Uh, the 98 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: sides of the conflict created an armistice. And this armistice 99 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,679 Speaker 1: included a lot of things, but it was missing perhaps 100 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: the most important. So, so what kind of stuff did 101 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: this include? You're looking at a ceasefire, you're looking at 102 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: POWs prisoners of warror going back to their side um repatriation. 103 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: You're looking at the demilitarized zone the d m Z. 104 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that a little later. You're also looking 105 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: at basically when the fighting ended. There was no official 106 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: final treaty that was signed, No no formal peace agreement 107 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: was ever agreed upon. Yes, and that is the most 108 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: important thing that was missing, Ladies and gentlemen. There is, 109 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: technically speaking, UH, the equivalent of a ceasefire for more 110 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: than fifty years between North Korea and South Korea, between 111 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: the DPRK and the r O k UH. The the 112 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: strange thing about this is that so much of what 113 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: would be a formal peace agreement depends upon the idea 114 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: of reunification of the peninsula, which is something else we 115 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: can talk about. But it's important to remember when you 116 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: when you read this bellicoast or warlike propaganda online. And 117 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,119 Speaker 1: I do recommend you visit North Korea's official news site 118 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: if you're a fan of this sort of thing the 119 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: way that I am. Um, what you have to remember 120 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: is that this is the same level of wartime propaganda 121 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: that you would see in the United States in World 122 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: War Two. You know, what I mean by war bonds 123 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: or the Nazis will get you kind of stuff. Um, 124 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: So it's not it's not as crazy as it might 125 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: sound from the outside. And for the interim for a 126 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: little while after the formation here, uh, there were tough times. 127 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: But DPRK at times was more successful in some ways 128 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: than South Korea, the Republic of Korea, and it was 129 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: all under its leader who built a cult of personality. Yes, 130 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: a cult of personality is very important in this story 131 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: as well. Um, should we go into a little bit 132 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: about just the the view top down view of North 133 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: Korea again looking at maybe population sure North Korea today, 134 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: So the population is estimated at twenty four million, nine million, Yeah, 135 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: a little under twenty five million. You'll see estimates fluctuate. Yeah, 136 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: and it's that's you know, a lot of people, especially 137 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: if you think that the entire area is listed as 138 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: forty six thousand, five d and twenty eight square miles, 139 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: which is about the size of Pennsylvania. Right. Yeah, And 140 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: just for comparison, South Korea is has a population of 141 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: around forty eight million. I want to say so, Uh, 142 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: North Korea is the less populous of the two. Um, 143 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: but of the let's go ahead and say of the 144 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: twenty four to million people living in North Korea. Uh, there, 145 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: there's a certain population that we actually want to talk 146 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: about in highlight in today's show, and that is the 147 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: that is the group of an estimated two hundred thousand 148 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: people as as we record this, that are in labor camps. Yes, 149 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: quanly so is what this system of camps is called? 150 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: Could you tell us a little more about it? Well, 151 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 1: it's it's really interesting stuff you get into. You get 152 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: placed in one of these and a couple of different ways. 153 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: Usually has to do with whether or not you are 154 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: seen as loyal to the party. Um, but maybe not 155 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: just you. It might be that your grandfather wasn't loyal 156 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: to the party, or maybe even your grand daughter or 157 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: grandson isn't loyal to the party, and you might find 158 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: yourself in one of these labor camps. So you've got 159 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: it's this really interesting thing that you're you go over 160 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: really well in the video that's that came out this 161 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,599 Speaker 1: week about five things they don't want you to or 162 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: five things you might not know about North Korea. If 163 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, check it out. Um. The reasons 164 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: is so interesting to me is that I've never heard 165 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: of this before. I've never heard of this happening. And 166 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: you had mentioned to me earlier that their Confucianism might 167 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: play a part in the reasoning behind this process. Yes, Uh, 168 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: Confucianism does play a part to some degree. What what 169 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about here is the idea of intergenerational punishment. 170 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 1: So this could mean that you are in a labor 171 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: camp not only for a crime that you yourself did 172 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: not commit, but maybe a crime that you are not 173 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: aware of one of your relatives committing. And a crime 174 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: here is not necessarily you know, crime like beauty is 175 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: in the eye of the beholder, right, or in the 176 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 1: eye of the judicial system. Right. So what we find 177 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: here is that there are three generations of punishment. Collective 178 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: pun Wishman is practiced unto three generations, which sounds almost biblical. 179 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: Yet Uh, so you're to take um to dovetail off 180 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: your early example, Matt. This means that maybe your grandfather 181 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: UM committed a crime or was against party ideology, and 182 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: you came from good family. Family is very very important 183 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: in this society. This means that Um, your parents and 184 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: you are going to feel the consequences of that. This 185 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: can be something where you're just in a slightly lower 186 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: class for a while. Or this could be something where 187 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: you are born in a labor camp with no idea, 188 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: not even of the world outside of North Korea, but 189 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: no idea of the world outside the labor camp or 190 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: understanding of why you are there in the beginning. Uh, 191 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: it is just a tortuous, horrible Um, it's it's an atrocity. Yeah, 192 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: and exactly. And from what I've gathered, you will live 193 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: your entire life there and possibly even have to have children, 194 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: and then they live their entire lives there, and and 195 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: that's it. Then then you're done. Now it's important to 196 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: say that to give a picture of these labor camps, 197 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: A lot of this is very hard manual labor, of course. Um. 198 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: Children to write, children to Punishments are harsh. Food is 199 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: very scarce. And when I say harsh punishments, I mean 200 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: up to and including arbitrary torture. Um. This this is 201 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: a family show, so we won't go too much into this, 202 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: but there are instances you know, of beating to death, 203 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: of forced abortions, exposure to the elements, um, being forced 204 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: to eat feces, and uh, the list goes on. So 205 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: what what we're saying here is that there is a 206 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 1: segment of this population that, due to collective punishment, exists 207 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: under under these terrible circumstances. Uh. And it makes you wonder, 208 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: which is a question we'll get at later towards the 209 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: end of this. It makes you wonder how much of 210 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: this is propaganda from defectors, because again, it's hard to 211 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: learn about a lot of this stuff, and a lot 212 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: of it comes as anecdotal evidence from people who perhaps escaped, right, 213 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: and we see satellite imagery, but it's not as if, 214 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: you know, Advice did a documentary on North Korea, but 215 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: it's not as if they made it to a labor 216 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: camp that was, although they did make it to that 217 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: place in Russia. So before we get sidelined too much here, 218 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: one of the questions would be, well, why is this 219 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: government being supported? Right? Sure, because historic it was supported. 220 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: It's primary benefactor was the U. S. S R. But 221 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: that no longer exists. That's a problem, and relationships with 222 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: Russia have have cooled a lot. So who is the 223 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: main benefactor of North Korea now? Well, currently it's China, 224 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: but it's not exactly an ideal partnership. So like their 225 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: Facebook status would be its complications. That's exactly right. Another 226 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: thing to note here is that the DPRK does have 227 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: some sort of nuclear weaponry. Uh. They've got I think 228 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: an estimated to warheads maybe, um, but there's really no 229 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: reliable delivery system like intercontinental ballistic missiles that are just 230 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,239 Speaker 1: ready to go, and especially if you've only got two warheads. 231 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it would be a short lived big bang 232 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: attack kind of. But there. Yeah, but there. It is 233 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: still dangerous, right, and they're working on, um, having this 234 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: ballistic capability and actively working toward nuclear weaponry as opposed 235 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:15,359 Speaker 1: to a country like Iran, which according to numerous intelligence 236 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: agencies recently isn't exactly but coming out of Africa? What 237 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: where did it come out of South Africa? Yeah? It 238 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: came out of these Uh ladies, gentlemen, Matt and I 239 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: are talking about some recent leaks before we went to 240 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: air this week from the South African intelligence agencies that 241 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: revealed so much stuff. Let's just talk about it real quick. 242 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: Let's just launch your list of stuff. Well, okay, UM, 243 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: A lot of it that I read specifically had to 244 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: do with Iran. Um and just the lines that we've 245 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: been getting from certain countries, including our own, just that 246 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: are complete, Yes, right, especially the Prime Minister of Israel, 247 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: Benjamin net and Yahoo uh saying that, you know, it's 248 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: something we've talked about before. Iran is always in some 249 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: weird according to its opponents, Iran is always in some 250 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: weird alice in wonderland state. You know, UH bombs yesterday, 251 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: bombs tomorrow, but never ever bombs today, and they're always 252 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: a year away or ten, like five years away or whatever. 253 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: And it turns out that the that Massad, the Israeli 254 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: equivalent of the c I A I guess, said that, Uh, 255 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: Iran's definitely is not doing it. And yeah, it just 256 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 1: has down. We're not worried and this, I mean, it's 257 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: kind of messed up, but I would definitely trust the 258 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: Massad's word, uh if it's if it is in this 259 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: context in something that is being leaked. Yeah. We also 260 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: found some other stuff there. Let's see UH Korean stuff 261 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: specifically like South Korea targeting the president of green Peace 262 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: piece officials for monitoring and am I sick, which is 263 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: UH the UK Intelligence agency attempting to UH create to 264 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: get a spy in North Korea. I thought that was great. Yeah, 265 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: that's that's a tough order, man, it's a tall order. 266 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: And that's because, um, we can recap some of our 267 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: earlier stuff here. That's because North Korea is very much 268 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: a closed society. It's a homogeneous, largely homogeneous society. Um. 269 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: Because North Korea has a class system, which we'll talk 270 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: about in a little bit more detail. But if we're 271 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: talking about this, let's go ahead and start at the 272 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: very top of the social hierarchy of the DPRK and 273 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: that is the Kim dynasty. That's right. You gotta start 274 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: with the o G Kim Il sun uh, the father 275 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: of Kim Jong il, and then in turn the grandfather 276 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: of Kim Jong own, the current leader. Yes, Kim Il 277 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: sung is the is a godlike tiger. Uh. Kim Il 278 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: sung is the internal leader of North Korea, which means 279 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: that technically speaking, he is considered still the leader of 280 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: North Korea despite his death. There's your three generational rule there. Ah. Yes, 281 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: and it's interesting that you say that. Well, we'll see 282 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: how that shakes out later. Yes, Kim Il sung is 283 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: referred to as the Great Leader, the country's eternal president. 284 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: His birthday as a holiday, it's called the Day of 285 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: the Sun. Uh. He ruled North Korea for forty six 286 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: years from until he passed away in nineteen ninety four. UM. 287 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: During the time leading up to his passing away, his 288 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,719 Speaker 1: son Kim Jong Il, who most of us will probably 289 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: remember better, uh, he took leadership and it was during 290 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: his rule that the country encountered some of those very 291 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: tense diff cold times, including the famine known as the 292 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: Arduous March, and nuclear standoffs. But we have a new 293 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: leader now, and that is one of his sons, right yeah, 294 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: Kim John n. He was selected by Kim John Hill 295 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: over his other two brothers. Y's I mean, hey, props man, 296 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: right yeah. He he is interesting because he has a UM. 297 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,479 Speaker 1: He has a European schooling, so he is someone who 298 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: has been raised outside of the country and I believe 299 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: he went to school in Switzerland. Now, he is not 300 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: necessarily the he he is not necessarily the air apparent 301 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: in the way you would think these things would normally go. 302 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: He's not the eldest son. No, there there were issues, 303 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: let's say, with two of the other candidates that would 304 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: have been for him, right, yeah, So there are two 305 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: other candidates. There was Kim Jong Nam and Kim Jong chul. Uh, 306 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: and I'm mispronouncing. I apologize. I don't speak Korean very well. 307 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: But the the brothers were the brothers who didn't make it. Um, 308 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: we're passed over because one of them was caught trying 309 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: to go to uh Tokyo Disneyland in two thousand one, 310 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: and there was a huge embarrassment. One of the others 311 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: was seen as effeminate by their father. Uh. So here 312 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: we are with Kim Jong un as the leader of 313 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: the DPRK, or at least the face of it. And 314 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: and that's that's the important thing, right, despite the appearance 315 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: of an absolute monarchy, right, Uh, the private version seems 316 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: a little bit different. There are a lot of high 317 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: ranking senior officials that um date back or did date 318 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: back all the way to the days of Kimmel song 319 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: and seniority being so important in this society. Their words 320 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: carry weight. Oh yeah, And it's I feel like the 321 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: system is kind of similar to the high advisors that 322 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: let's say the president listens to on a daily basis 323 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: to make high level decisions, even if they're repeatedly wrong. 324 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but it's you know, you have you kind 325 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: of have to go with a person that probably knows best, right, Yeah. Uh. 326 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: And another another weird thing here. Uh. So, the stated 327 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: aim of North Korea is reunification. It's something that both 328 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: Koreas want in principle, right, and uh, the problem there 329 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: is that the the problem there is that the there's 330 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: just a battle of population that occurs because both both 331 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: want the peninsula reunified in some manner or way, because 332 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: there were families that were split apart by the division, 333 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: this thirty parallel division. Um. But you know, both countries 334 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: want to be in the driver's seat, right. And then 335 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: when you look at the population, you you mentioned that 336 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: the Republic of Korea has almost twice as many almost 337 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: twice as many people. Um. So it would seem as 338 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: though if you were just looking from that aspect alone, 339 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: they would kind of absorb North Korea, or at least 340 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: that's the way it seems. And I'm pretty certain North 341 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: Korea wouldn't want that, right. Uh. We we are gonna 342 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: look at some of the questions about that too towards 343 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: towards the ends here. Now that you watched the interview, 344 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: right I did. Yeah, I watched the interview too. It 345 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't my favorite thing. I felt like, you know, 346 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,239 Speaker 1: what's what's the point where, uh, satire just becomes kind 347 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: of racism. Yeah, but I'm a big fan of Seth 348 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: Rogan and James Franco. I think they're funny guys. Um, 349 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: the guy who played Kim jongun is a really funny dude. Uh. 350 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: But you know, you have to wonder how much of 351 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: that is again like propaganda. But there was a great 352 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: point in interview where they say that there is a 353 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: false impression that this nation strives to give visitors and 354 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: the outside world. Oh yeah that I'm thinking of the 355 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: scene in particular where James Franco's character goes and finds 356 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: that little food store and it's just all fake food. Um, 357 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: it's all props, essentially set ups for him and other 358 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: outsiders to think that there's plentiful food in the area. Yeah. 359 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: There's a great reddit a m a from a North 360 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: from a photographer who was traveling to North Korea pretty 361 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 1: often until he started being refused entry for taking photos 362 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: you shouldn't take. And he said that there are a 363 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: few there's like two supermarkets and killing young. There's some them, 364 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: but the only people who can really shop at those 365 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: are the elite. Um. We know that there is propaganda 366 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: at work in North Korea, and you know it's it's 367 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: its own industry as well, So it's difficult to understand 368 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: how much of what the government says is true, how 369 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: to parse the truth between the statements. But there's another point. 370 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: This makes us think of, well, yeah, it's not just 371 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: propaganda coming out of North Korea about how great it is. 372 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: There's also a ton of propaganda aimed at you about 373 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: how bad North Korea is and all these terrible things 374 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: and how everyone there is starving. Although there is some 375 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: truth to it, a lot of this stuff are just 376 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: exaggerations to kind of shape your view of the country 377 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: as a whole. Right, there's a lot of an echo 378 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: chamber going on. Uh. And nowhere was this more apparent 379 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: than uh in the recent interview related news story froth Korea. Right, yeah, 380 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: it was. It was absolutely North Korea doing these cyber 381 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: attacks against Sony. We're not saying it wasn't, but we 382 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 1: are saying, uh, that's a heck of a leap to make. 383 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 1: And there were credible, very credible people saying that it 384 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: absolutely wasn't North Korea. So you know, you just I 385 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: just have to open open your third high. Maybe I 386 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: don't know. I can't. I don't know how you figure 387 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: out what's true or not these days. So we do 388 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: know that with that being said, with that wheelbarrow salt 389 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: poured onto the idea of all these stories you hear 390 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: from North Korea and about North Korea, we do know 391 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: that some of the crazier stories are true because, as 392 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: we said at the top, we have our friend Kenji 393 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: Fujimoto who was able to confirm some and then we 394 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: have some some good firsthand reports here. So what's what's 395 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: one crazy story? All right? Well, you are going to 396 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: have to elaborate on this one for me. But I 397 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: remember hearing a story about a rabbit breeding program that 398 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: didn't go very well, or they're very it's a very 399 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: large species of rabbit that I guess North Korea wanted 400 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: to have a small population of them in order to 401 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: breed them. Yes, yeah, it's true. So in In I 402 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: guess two thousand seven or so, twelve giant rabbits were 403 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: delivered to North Korea. Uh. The breeder who sent them 404 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: UH found he thought they were going to be used 405 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,239 Speaker 1: to make a rabbit farm. Uh, but he suspected that 406 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: they were eaten by the top officials UM. Berlin's North 407 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: Korean embassy denied the allegations, but you can read some 408 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: more about this in spiegel Um, the online the German 409 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: uh journalism. This is an article by David Crossland and 410 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: these rabbits guys are so big, their biggest dogs to 411 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: make about eight kilos of of me. Absolutely, yeah, that's huge. 412 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: But it may have been. I was thinking about this. 413 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: It may have been despite the food shortage that they 414 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 1: tried the rabbits, because you should try before you like 415 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: do this whole thing. You don't want to start a 416 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: rabbit industry if nobody wants them. Nobody wants them. But 417 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: maybe they ate them and they didn't taste good. That's 418 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 1: that's another I could see that. I could see that, um. 419 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: But there are other crazy stories as well. Another story 420 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: is that there is a difference in size between North 421 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: and South Korean nationals, and it's thought to be due 422 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: to to maulnutrition that North Koreans were subjected to. Yeah, 423 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: you hear this a lot from especially from Americans. So 424 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: former presidential candidate John McCain talked about it in a 425 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight debate. Christopher Hitchens talked about it 426 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: in an article and slate. Uh, but some actual research 427 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: instead of just read came from guy named Professor Daniel 428 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: Schweckendik from a university and soul. He said that on average, 429 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: North Korean men are about one and a half to 430 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: three inches shorter than men in South Korea. And the 431 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: interesting thing is that due to the homogeneous nature of 432 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: the population, like genetically right, we know that this doesn't 433 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: come from a large variation or diversity in the gene pool. 434 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: It comes from environmental factors like nutrition. But that brings 435 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: us to something else, all right, Matt, this is one 436 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: of the craziest stories. Uh. Starvation, yes, been. Starvation and 437 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: food insecurity in general is a huge issue in North Korea. Um, 438 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: it's a life threatening issue that I mean, this is 439 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: one of the big worries in your life if you're 440 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: a North Korean. And like, we can look at one 441 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: of these things like during the famine of nine nineties, 442 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: that's the thing you mentioned earlier, the arduous march somewhere, 443 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: and there's a huge, huge variance and number here, but 444 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: somewhere between two hundred and forty thousand and three point 445 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: five million North Koreans died of starvation or some form 446 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: of hunger related issue. Right, Yeah, so maybe not just 447 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: starvation directly, but something exacerbated by starvation. Uh. This Yeah, 448 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: this number is uh, it's a huge number. It's a 449 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: huge variance. As we said. But first, in a country 450 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: that does keep adequate records or does allow people in 451 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: more easily the you still have a variance. You still 452 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: have a variance because it's difficult to say the exact 453 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: cause of death, right. But then in countries, but in 454 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: the case of North Korea, this is even more difficult 455 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: because there are very few official numbers kept in that's 456 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: been the case for fifty years. This leads us to 457 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: something darker though, Yep, cannibalism. So there is confirmation of 458 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: let's say, isolated cases of why and you know, there 459 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: are also a lot of rumors about cannibalism, right, So 460 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: some of these isolated cases would be stuff like a 461 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: grandfather digging up his children's graves after they passed away 462 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: and eating them, yeah, because he had to the idea. 463 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: But there are also these rumors of large scale cannibalism 464 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: that took place during certain times in North Korea. Um, 465 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: but really, we we don't know we can't prove it, right, 466 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: because these statements come down often through defectors, right through 467 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: the eye of defectors, and uh, I'd like to take 468 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: just a moment to trace the path the defector goes to. 469 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: So if you if you make it to South Korea 470 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: from North Korea, then you are going to be accepted 471 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: into South Korean society. They have subsidies set up, they 472 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: have some orientation UH programs, right, and that's very important 473 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of things that are going 474 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: to be so unfamiliar. But to get to South Korea 475 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: is the difficult part. It's sort of like how um 476 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: in the United States. If you are from Cuba and 477 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: you manage to make it to the mainlands, right, then 478 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: you are allowed to stay. But uh, you have to 479 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: make it through that ninety miles of water first and 480 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: if you get caught before then you're fair game and 481 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: people will turn you back. So if you leave North Korea, 482 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: you UM. And typically what we see are often with 483 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: the assistance of Christian groups or bribing guards, people go 484 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: over to China, they go over to the border and 485 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: cross the river. The the entrance straight into South Korea 486 00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: via the d m Z is just not going to 487 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: have up and it's it's um, it's far too armed 488 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: to the teeth on both sides. But if you go 489 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: to China and China finds you, you will be deported 490 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: back to North Korea where you will almost certainly be 491 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: sent to a labor camp m. And if you leave 492 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: and it's proven that you have left, then it could 493 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: also potentially punish three generations of your family. So of 494 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: the people who travel, many travel you know, directly to 495 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: China and UH. Of the women who travel there are 496 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: traffic UH or enforced marriages, and the people who do 497 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: make it. China considers these people economic migrants, not refugees. 498 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: The legal distinction sounds um, you know, it sounds like 499 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: semantics to us, but it's a lot people's lives hinge 500 00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: on this, and the mission is to make it to 501 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: an embassy where they're safe. You can go onto YouTube 502 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: right now, UH and just search for North Korean refugees, 503 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: China and embassy, and you will see heartbreaking footage of 504 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: groups of people making it. Chinese guards outside, not getting 505 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: all of them, but stopping some, and that's where it ends. 506 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: The embassy cannot do anything for you if you are 507 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: right outside the door. So when these when these people, um, 508 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: when these the factors passed through if they make it 509 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: via you know, like Thailand, China, Mongolia, and in China again, 510 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the assistants and Christian groups if they 511 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 1: make it there, they often talk about their experiences in UH, 512 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: North Korea. And we have to have some deal of 513 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 1: skepticism because it's true that a lot of people are 514 00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: saying the same thing. But UH, what is the evidence 515 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: other than that hearsay? Is it possible that um, you know, 516 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: factions of the South Korean government or even the US 517 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: government are encouraging this kind of like encouraging a rhetoric 518 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 1: of some sort. Or is this just the truth of 519 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:26,360 Speaker 1: these people participating in starvation cannibalism. Ah, that is a 520 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: heavy one, Ben, Yeah, sorry, that was a monologue. It's 521 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: all good, Okay. I have a question that maybe our 522 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: listeners would like to ask you. How how did you 523 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: learn so much about this subject? Oh? I don't I 524 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 1: don't know. I appreciate the flattery, but uh, I don't 525 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: know very much about North Koreo all compared to a 526 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: lot of people. This is just something that UH has 527 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: has fascinated me for a long time. You know, my 528 00:35:54,400 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: background is in international affairs, and always seemed any I 529 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: can full of questions to me, imply, questions, why aren't 530 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: world powers doing more or to to help if this, 531 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: if this is such an important thing, and um, how 532 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: did this unique government begin? You know? Oh yeah, sure, 533 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: well it seems like you're absolutely right. It seems like 534 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: one of those things that once you learn about it, 535 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: that why if anybody knows about it, why isn't there 536 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: more being done to change the situation? Now? What what 537 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: about the what about the next thing here? This is 538 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: a weird sort What about the crime? Oh little crime, 539 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: little crime action. I don't know if any of you 540 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: are watching better call Saul, but you probably should be. 541 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: If you are not. Uh, North Korea turns out is 542 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 1: pretty good at making meth, at least certain factions, certain 543 00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: groups are really good at it. Um they yeah, yeah, 544 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: they officially deny it. However, during the nineties of government 545 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: had this unit called Office thirty nine, and it was 546 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: tasks to raise hard currency for Kim Jong ill and 547 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: they produced not just meth but also opium, that thing 548 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: that we've talked about pretty extensively on this show. And again, 549 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: these are two things that seem to be able to 550 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: if you were able to produce them, generate a large 551 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: flow of cash. And what's what's also interesting here is, 552 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: despite these official denials, in two thousand ten, I believe uh, 553 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: South Korea's Donga Ilbo claimed that Chinese police had seized 554 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 1: sixty million dollars worth of drugs made by the DPRK. 555 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: She's so, maybe this idea of not making meth is 556 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 1: a myth which brings us to myths about North Korea. Uh, 557 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: you've got you've got a big one for us, right, Matt. Well, 558 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 1: the first thing that you might not know is that 559 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: the citizen re as a whole, or least large chunks 560 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: of the citizen re in the DPRK are not as 561 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: uninformed as some people would want you to think. Uh, 562 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: there are there's a whole black market of phones and 563 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: other telecommunic telecommunication devices, internet connections, um, all kinds of 564 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: smuggled media gets in South Korean soap operas are pretty popular. 565 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: Well that's good. Well, the the interesting thing here is, 566 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: you know, people are so often taught, or were historically 567 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: taught in North Korea that they were living in the 568 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: best possible situation in the world. And that people in 569 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: South Korea didn't have food or shoes or places to sleep. 570 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,280 Speaker 1: And now this is this has become apparent. That's not true. 571 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: Another myth um, Well, I think it is a myth, 572 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: and I know some people might not agree here. Another 573 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 1: myth is that North Korea itself is a communist country, 574 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: that the DPRK is a communist country. Well, I think 575 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: I thought it was. Well so did I'm at for 576 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: for a long time. This brings us to a book, 577 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,800 Speaker 1: quite a good book, a controversial book called The Cleanest 578 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,720 Speaker 1: Race or How North Korean See Themselves and Why It Matters. 579 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: It's by an author named Brian Reynold Myers, and in 580 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: this book, Myers contends that far from being a communist 581 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: state the way that the West would understand it or 582 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: the way that a communist would understand it UH, the 583 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: North Korean UH society is much more nationalistic and based 584 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: on this idea of racial purity, the concept being that 585 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: the people of this country are so pure and virtuous 586 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: that they must be protected from the barbaric outside world 587 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 1: by this this carrying omnipotent benefact Or is it bad 588 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: that I'm seeing parallels there between being protected by protected 589 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: from terrorism and American exceptionalism. I don't know, that's a 590 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: very interesting parallel to draw. Maybe listeners, let us know 591 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: what you think with that parallel there, because I'm sorry, 592 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: this is the most Hey, this is the most interesting 593 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: parallel in this show. Now it beats the parallels. But 594 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,720 Speaker 1: so we talked a little bit about, Um, you know this, Okay, 595 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: If this communism stuff is a myth, right, if in 596 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: practice there aren't wild inequalities in North Korean society, Uh, 597 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: then why what what system in place does this? It's 598 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: the song system and I may be pronouncing that incorrectly, 599 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,879 Speaker 1: but it's the caste system that exists in North Korea, yep. 600 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 1: And they're they're like three grades, right, yeah, three tiers. 601 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: You've got the loyal, which is also called core or 602 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: I think it's called core, but loyal, the loyal Core. 603 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: Then you've also got wavering, which are people that are 604 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: kind of your ifs, your maybe's, you're these people are 605 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: on a list, but they're not necessarily danger yet. Then 606 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: you've got your hostiles. Ah, yes, this is this system 607 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:25,879 Speaker 1: is based upon the position of one's family pre liberation 608 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: of the peninsula. So the hostile and wavering class makes 609 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,400 Speaker 1: up about seventy two percent of the population, and there 610 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: are gradients. Uh this, um, I think more than thirty 611 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: kind of gradients. One thing we should point out here 612 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: is that this most definitely affects your chances at everything 613 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,359 Speaker 1: the town in which you are assigned to live, right, 614 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: the job you are allowed to have, how far you 615 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: are allowed to advance at school. Because if you are 616 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: UM in the wrong class, no matter how well, if 617 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: you're the hostile class, you probably don't get to go 618 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: to school. You're in a labor camp somewhere. But if 619 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,360 Speaker 1: you were in a wavering class, no matter how you study, 620 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 1: you will not get the academic accolades that the that 621 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: the top tier classes get. Another myth about North Korea 622 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: that it is a failed state. It is not. Actually 623 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: things are better, at least a lot better than they 624 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,319 Speaker 1: were in the nineties for sure. That's when you had 625 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: the starvation. Um just it wasn't looking good around that time. 626 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 1: So things are improving, and there are a lot of 627 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: things that are improving, right. Uh, yeah, there are. In 628 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: terms of access to food, things are improving. There was 629 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: a huge reevaluation of the Okay, this is this kind 630 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,800 Speaker 1: of complex, but there was this huge reevaluation, reevaluation of 631 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: the currency when the black market became too successful and 632 00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:02,240 Speaker 1: people relying less on the Him dynasty. Uh So people 633 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: lost their savings totally and have been recovering from that. 634 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: But the the black or gray market has to be 635 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,280 Speaker 1: permitted to a certain amount to a certain amount. So 636 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: that might be one reason why people say it's a 637 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 1: failed state. But a failed state is something like Somalia 638 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: when when the president that the U n recognizes barely 639 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,879 Speaker 1: controls part of the capital, you know what I mean. 640 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: So the government in North Korea definitely still is in 641 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,879 Speaker 1: control of the country, and that might be That might 642 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 1: be a good thing. As we'll see, it's also not 643 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: as isolated as you might believe. We've got a great 644 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: quote here from the Atlantic that will just read a 645 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: little part of the United States may have very little 646 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: to do with the North North Korea, but that does 647 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: not apply to the rest of the world. Did you 648 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: know that North Korea sends hundreds of students overseas for 649 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: educational and business training. Thousands of North Korean's work in China, 650 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,800 Speaker 1: in Mongolia, where they produce goods for popular British clothing brands. 651 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: In Kuwait where they work on construction projects, and in 652 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: Russia where they labor in logging camps. He also says 653 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,960 Speaker 1: that there's a North Korean construction company that's working completing 654 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: a museum near Cambodia's famed Ankoor temples, which is a 655 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,840 Speaker 1: whole another awesome place. Yeah, there's also a I T 656 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,919 Speaker 1: sector that is becoming an outsourcing destination. Uh, they've got 657 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 1: pretty advanced animation industry. So this this is all to 658 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 1: say that this is not really a This is not 659 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: someplace that is completely cut off from the world, which 660 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: is something that people are often taught in the United States. 661 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: And this, all these myths is just the tip of 662 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: the iceberg. So Matt, let's get to the good stuff. 663 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,839 Speaker 1: Are there any conspiracies about North Korea? Oh? Yes, Ben, 664 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,279 Speaker 1: there are a lot of conspiracies that deal with the 665 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 1: dprk UH. One of the big ones is that inside 666 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: the country in North Korea, Americans are blamed for everything. 667 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: Oh so, like a power failure, Oh yeah, power failure. 668 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: You spilled your t Americans, It was the Americans. Obama. 669 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 1: I think it would be really funny if there were 670 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: just the whole families in North Korea that just scream 671 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:30,399 Speaker 1: Obama the way certain people in South too when anything happens, Well, 672 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: certain people across the world. Okay, sure, saying that out 673 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,720 Speaker 1: of personal experience. Okay, I'm but I'm sure there are 674 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,240 Speaker 1: German officials who say Obama. I know there's at least 675 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,400 Speaker 1: one guy in Russia who's probably saying that a lot. Sure, yeah, 676 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 1: I think we know who. But the um, but where 677 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 1: does this where does this idea come from? This idea that, uh, 678 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 1: the US forces are continually oppressing uh, North Korea. Well, 679 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 1: we do know that a lot of it is based 680 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 1: on the factual events of the Korean War. Um, when 681 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,839 Speaker 1: the Americans were doing a lot of uh, I mean, 682 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: it was total warfare, so a lot of civilian soldiers 683 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 1: died and the country was raised, the buildings were knocked down. 684 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 1: And not only that, the sanctions that are placed on 685 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: North Korea. Yeah, but those sanctions primarily just affect the elite. 686 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,840 Speaker 1: It's not as if UM, people in rural farming or 687 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: mining towns are saying, oh man, we can't get cigars anymore. 688 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: Then the elite are people too, and and there you 689 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,879 Speaker 1: know cigars. You're right, I am being I'm I'm being 690 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,319 Speaker 1: rude to the elite. Uh So there's this other there's 691 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: this other theory here um that if you believe in 692 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,759 Speaker 1: New World order theories, you may also believe in this 693 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 1: that like Libya and Iran, North Korea is on the 694 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 1: global um let's call it the stuff list because it 695 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,919 Speaker 1: refuses to play games with the It refuses to play 696 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 1: ball rather with the global financial regime. I M F. 697 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 1: Wild Bank, Goldman Sachs. I don't know, man, This this 698 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: one feels very real to me. That's so called nonaligned countries. 699 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,600 Speaker 1: There's another, there's another one that comes from a guy 700 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,640 Speaker 1: you might remember from earlier episodes we had, Yeah, Benjamin Fulford. 701 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 1: We we mentioned him, I think when we were what 702 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 1: was that we were doing the Dragon Family episode. We 703 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: looked at his research a lot. Uh. He believes that 704 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:36,840 Speaker 1: DPRK and Japan are working closely together, and he's basing 705 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: this on Kim John UN's Japanese mother. That's you know, 706 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,959 Speaker 1: that's kind of a big deal. And also the large 707 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:50,880 Speaker 1: population in North Korean descendants who reside in Japan. Yeah, 708 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 1: Benjamin Fulford, you can you can check out his some 709 00:47:54,920 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 1: of his work online if you like. I would say that, uh, 710 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,879 Speaker 1: I would say that while the stories are interesting, they 711 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:07,080 Speaker 1: are allegations. Yes, they are not proven facts, which is 712 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: somethings check out. But the Dragon Family episode that we 713 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:15,800 Speaker 1: did is just fascinating. Um. That's the one about the 714 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: huge amounts of it wasn't money, it was bonds, yeah, 715 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: certificates yeah, and uh and there's some interesting there. They're 716 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,359 Speaker 1: interesting is a word that I'm overusing this podcast. So 717 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:35,360 Speaker 1: I would say that there's some um tantalizing stuff to 718 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: go along with that. Around the same time of two 719 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,920 Speaker 1: Japanese nationals caught uh smuggling a large amount of bills 720 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: and a train supposed hidden treasure or recover treasure in 721 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,480 Speaker 1: the Philippines. Uh. Dating back to World Wars. The Dragon 722 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:57,680 Speaker 1: Family is this sort of um asiatic ruling force similar 723 00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,480 Speaker 1: to the Western concept of the illuminati. And this is 724 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:05,640 Speaker 1: about his thing is about these two groups in conflict. Um. 725 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,400 Speaker 1: But do check it out if you get a chance. 726 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 1: Another big conspiracy. North Korea as a world ending threat, Uh, 727 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: not as much as a way in the way that 728 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: you think. Now. North Korea is most dangerous to South 729 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 1: Korea because it is so close to the capital city 730 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,600 Speaker 1: Soul also has a million strong army. It would be 731 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:27,720 Speaker 1: able to do some devastating, horrible damage to South Korea, 732 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,640 Speaker 1: but it would by no means when the war. It 733 00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,920 Speaker 1: doesn't have the firepower to UM. It is not a 734 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:40,520 Speaker 1: world threat other than the idea that destabilization UM or 735 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,960 Speaker 1: an attack on the Greek could set off a domino 736 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,160 Speaker 1: effect of some sort. And we said earlier that there 737 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,279 Speaker 1: are an estimated to nuclear warheads inside the country in 738 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,200 Speaker 1: North Korea, So I guess they are considered a nuclear 739 00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,480 Speaker 1: power because they have these two. It's the threat is 740 00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: much smaller than a lot of places, though you can't 741 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,399 Speaker 1: underestimate a nuke no matter what the size. It also 742 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,000 Speaker 1: doesn't have a lot of missiles. You you were telling 743 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,799 Speaker 1: me about the newest missile. I don't know how to 744 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: say that, uh to yeah you n h ah. This 745 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: technically is not a missile. It's a space launch vehicle. 746 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,359 Speaker 1: I hope you guys can my air quotes around that. Uh. 747 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: And it did put a satellite in orbit. Uh. Currently, 748 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 1: the US sources estimate that North Korea has deployed around 749 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:34,279 Speaker 1: six hundred SCUDG missile variants, two hundred Rodong missiles of 750 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:39,919 Speaker 1: shewer than fifty Musadan or Taipo dong Um, but South 751 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:44,239 Speaker 1: Korean sources estimate even fewers, so this varies. So here's 752 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,520 Speaker 1: the big question that we have today, what is the 753 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,840 Speaker 1: future of North Korea? Can we can we see anything 754 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: like what is the outcome? Here? Well to answer that, 755 00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,440 Speaker 1: we'd also be answering this another question, which Well will 756 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:06,279 Speaker 1: answer in full in an upcoming episode two. Uh. The 757 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:11,400 Speaker 1: future of North Korea is difficult to determine because it 758 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:16,720 Speaker 1: is caught between global powers the United States, China, Japan, Russia. 759 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:21,280 Speaker 1: To a lesser degree, a lot of misinformation and disinformation 760 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,200 Speaker 1: is spread about the country, and its inner politics are 761 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:29,920 Speaker 1: incredibly secretive. But those human rights abuses are real to 762 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,200 Speaker 1: some degree. Oh absolutely. And if you know, if we're 763 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,840 Speaker 1: still going to know about freedom and human rights in America, 764 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,319 Speaker 1: then why the heck haven't we done anything about this? 765 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:46,600 Speaker 1: We are the largest superpower and military might in the world. Furthermore, 766 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:51,400 Speaker 1: if China has such influence over DPRK, then why hasn't 767 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:56,560 Speaker 1: it done more to improve the the economic situation, if 768 00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,320 Speaker 1: not the human rights situation. Well, there's a simple answer. 769 00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,279 Speaker 1: There's not a compelling reason to change the status quo 770 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:09,239 Speaker 1: right now in that region. Absolutely imagine if imagine, if 771 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:14,000 Speaker 1: you can, the situation when the wall fell in between 772 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,960 Speaker 1: East Germany and West Germany. This would be that in 773 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,600 Speaker 1: a much larger circumstance, a massive flood of refugees would 774 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,800 Speaker 1: uh would move into South Korea and China immediately in 775 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,080 Speaker 1: excess of twenty million people. UH. And and who knows 776 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,799 Speaker 1: which way the power shifts if that wall comes down. 777 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,240 Speaker 1: Is it the Republic of Korea or the Democratic Republic 778 00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:40,239 Speaker 1: of Korea who gains control? Right? Yeah, so does the 779 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,800 Speaker 1: does the current create collapse or does it become something 780 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,640 Speaker 1: that gives the United States more influence or is it 781 00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,360 Speaker 1: something that gives China an edge? And you have to 782 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,719 Speaker 1: think that some kind of sudden military intervention would would 783 00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,920 Speaker 1: pretty much it would certainly result in the deaths of 784 00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:03,280 Speaker 1: million on the r OK side, just because the DPRK 785 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,680 Speaker 1: is so ready to attack. They've been planning for some 786 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,680 Speaker 1: kind of invasion or aggression for years, decades, and listeners, 787 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,680 Speaker 1: the cynics among us would say that uh in invasion 788 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:22,080 Speaker 1: or liberation has not occurred yet because the DPRK doesn't 789 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:26,160 Speaker 1: have a valuable resource like oil or something. That's why 790 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,680 Speaker 1: it's not officially a Protectorate of China yet, but it 791 00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:34,600 Speaker 1: does have mineral resources metal resources. We'll see how that goes. 792 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:39,200 Speaker 1: We also know that a CIA style people's revolution or 793 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:44,120 Speaker 1: regime change at China's doorstep would be an act of 794 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,840 Speaker 1: clear war, and that's probably one of the reasons it 795 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,920 Speaker 1: hasn't happened yet. Uh, they're spies from China active in 796 00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,920 Speaker 1: North Korea, and their North Korean spies in China and 797 00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,120 Speaker 1: South Korea. But for now, there's not a compelling reason 798 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:03,839 Speaker 1: for the countries involved to change the status quo immediately, 799 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,279 Speaker 1: maybe slowly over time, but not immediately. So what do 800 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,880 Speaker 1: you guys think about all this stuff? What's your opinion? 801 00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 1: We I don't know. This is one of those subjects 802 00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,160 Speaker 1: that racks my brain because it's very tough to digest 803 00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,520 Speaker 1: all of these things, like the human rights abuses that 804 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,040 Speaker 1: we talked about, and also the rock and hard place 805 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:26,399 Speaker 1: between changing something and then not making things worse from 806 00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,600 Speaker 1: a global perspective. We'd love to hear what you think, 807 00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: so right to us. Go to Twitter, We're at conspiracy 808 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,560 Speaker 1: Stuff there. Find us on Facebook We're conspiracy Stuff there. 809 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 1: You can also go to our YouTube page comment on 810 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,239 Speaker 1: our videos and sorry to interrupt, nice T shirt. What 811 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,520 Speaker 1: are you talking about? That's wearing one of the stuff 812 00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,560 Speaker 1: they'll want you to know t shirts, which you can 813 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,480 Speaker 1: also find online. Check us out. We've got some new 814 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,960 Speaker 1: T shirt styles coming out, and if you want to 815 00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,560 Speaker 1: give us a suggestion for another episode, we would love 816 00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,080 Speaker 1: to hear or from. If you don't want to do 817 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,759 Speaker 1: the social media thing, listen, I get it. That's why 818 00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:07,840 Speaker 1: we have an email address you can nail us directly. 819 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:15,719 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com. From 820 00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,919 Speaker 1: more on this topic, another unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot 821 00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,359 Speaker 1: com slash conspiracy Stuff. You can also get in touch 822 00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,280 Speaker 1: on Twitter at the handle at conspiracy stuff