1 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch 2 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: I am the host, and couch Talks is the bonus 4 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: episode of You Need Therapy where I answer questions that 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: you guys send and you guys can send those to 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Katherine at You Need Therapy at podcast dot com. If 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: you ever have a question, always keep them anonymous so 8 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about me spilling your name 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: or email address or any. 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 2: Of that unless you asked me to. 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: And with that, I always want to give the extra 12 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: reminder that this podcast, although it's called You Need Therapy 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: and today you have actually two therapists again on here talking, 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: this does not serve as a replacement or substitute for 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: any actual mental health services. 16 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 2: However, we always hope that. 17 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: It can help you in some way wherever you are 18 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: with whatever you're going through. Now, like I said, we 19 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: have two therapists here myself and then we have I 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: feel like you're just like a friend of the podcast. 21 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: At this point, I know we. 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: Have Julia back who works at three Quarts Therapy. I 23 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: asked you to answer this with me because the first 24 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: episode you ever did on here was talking about some 25 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: basically spiritual abuse, spiritual trauma, deconstruction, all that kind of stuff, 26 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: and there's a little bit of that in this question. 27 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: So I thought you'd be a good person to give 28 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: extra insight. 29 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 3: It's such a good question too. 30 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I just reread I'm obviously going to read 31 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: it for y'all, but I just reread it before we 32 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: hit record, and like the last sentence, me and Julia 33 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: both go. 34 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 3: Ooh A very like sit with that. 35 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, we literally and then it was like silent for 36 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: like sixty seconds as we both like processed it ourselves. 37 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: So I really appreciate this person sending this in because 38 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: it's a vulnerable question, and I also know that this 39 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: is something that you're not alone in and there's not 40 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: an easy answer to and that's hard to ask for 41 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: feedback when you know the response isn't going to be 42 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: as clean as you hope it to be. So I'm 43 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: going to read it and then we will chat about it. 44 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: Here it is, Hey, kat, my mother is a die 45 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: hard Christian. I have spent the last tenish years deconstructing 46 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: my faith, and a couple years ago I became more 47 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: vocal about my decision to no longer identify as a Christian. 48 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: Long story short, my mom and I now disagree on 49 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: almost every single thing. I do not live with them, 50 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: but I do work with my parents three to four 51 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: days a week. My mom believes that the absolutely most 52 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: deepest loving thing she can do is make sure that 53 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: my soul is saved and that I am going to heaven, 54 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: which consists of me confessing with my lips and believing 55 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: that in my heart Jesus is Lord, which I am 56 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: not doing. This makes me feel like I am a 57 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: project for my mom. I cannot just be a human being, 58 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: a daughter, a friend. I'm a soul to be saved. 59 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: I have communicated with her that one, while I am 60 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: willing to hear about her experience with her faith, it 61 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: will not be a topic of connection between us, and two, 62 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: her need to save my soul does not make me 63 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: feel loved, and she does not understand these things. She's 64 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: very all or nothing. She says things like, okay, fine, 65 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: I won't ever say the words Jesus or church or 66 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: faith or what exactly am I doing? That is not loving? 67 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: So I can apologize and we can move on. It 68 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: seems like she wants a twelve step plan on how 69 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: to just make everything right, which obviously things just don't 70 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: happen like that. So all that to say, Mom believes 71 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: she's loving me in the best and deepest way possible, 72 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: and I do not feel loved by her. 73 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: So what do I do? 74 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: And then she wrote in quotations, I'm in therapy and 75 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: I've talked about this quite a bit already. I just 76 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts and questions. And here's the kicker. 77 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: Is love about the person giving the love? Or is 78 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: it about the person receiving the love? 79 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: Send help? 80 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: I picked up a couple new thoughts as I was 81 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: reading that that I didn't think of the first couple 82 00:03:59,040 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: of times I read that. 83 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: So this is I'm going to start off saying. 84 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: I really love the fact that this is something we 85 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: were talking about today, because even if you are not 86 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: connecting with the deconstruction of Christianity and this kind of stuff, 87 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: we've mostly all had an experience where the way our 88 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: love languages kind of bump up with each other or 89 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: even like our lifestyles, And what do we do with that? 90 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,119 Speaker 1: Is it my responsibility to just like, well, they mean well, 91 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: or is it that person's responsibility to get to know 92 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: me better and show up for me the way I 93 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: want them to show up. We've all had that kind 94 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: of stuff happen in our lives, and there's no easy answer. 95 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: So I'm going to stop now and I just want 96 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts and then I'll share mine. So 97 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,559 Speaker 1: when you read this and when you just heard it again, 98 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: what's coming. 99 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: Up for you. 100 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 3: I'm thinking about love as the idea of safety and 101 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 3: connection between two people, and if you guys aren't both 102 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 3: committed to maintaining and creating that between each other, then 103 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 3: it's going to be really hard. So this listener has 104 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 3: opened the invitation to still hear about the experience of 105 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 3: faith and try and connect in that way, but it's 106 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 3: not going to be something that we share, and so 107 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 3: trying to create safety and connection still in the conversation topic. 108 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 3: But it sounds like that's not the answer that the 109 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 3: mom wants to hear, which creates a really difficult problem. 110 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: The mom wants to connect through conversations about faith. I 111 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: think there's probably a lot of fear happening for the mom, 112 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: which might create this muffled sense of what you're The 113 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: person that wrote this is asking because she's hearing alarm bells, 114 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: and there's fear like if I don't say my daughter, 115 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: she's going to hell kind of thing. Yeah, so she 116 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: has a hard time actually hearing what you're saying because 117 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: she's being almost sidetracked by this has to be my mission. 118 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: So I think part of that sounds really frustrating. You've 119 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: told her these things multiple times and then she responds 120 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: in these very like all or nothing, chaotic to you 121 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: sounding responses that kind of leave you being like, what, 122 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: I didn't say that. But it's I wonder partly because 123 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: she does not have the capacity to sit with that 124 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 1: discomfort and fear that she feels when she's hearing the differences. 125 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 3: Which feels like yeah, what you just said about not 126 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 3: sitting with a discomfort. Then comes all those responses like okay, fine, fine, fine, 127 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 3: Like whatever, how can I just apologize we can brush 128 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 3: through this, rather than like, Okay, you're uncomfortable, I'm uncomfortable. 129 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 3: Let's find your way back to connection in this. 130 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think what you said something that's if 131 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: there's not this like joint decision to create the trust 132 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: in connection, it sounds like you guys are on different wavelengths. 133 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 1: It sounds like your mom'sm is different than yours, and 134 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: for her to engage with you in the relationship that 135 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: it sounds like you want, she would have to do 136 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: a lot of work around what she needs. 137 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 2: To cope with this idea. 138 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 1: That there are people that are not going to agree 139 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: with something that feels so true to her, which I 140 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: will say is hard, like yeah, and it doesn't have 141 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: to be something as big as faith. 142 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: Like last night, I was watching Full Swing. Have you 143 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 2: watched that? Is it about golf? 144 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 3: Yes? Oh my god, actually I really no, it's a 145 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 3: it's actually what actually made me want to go play golf, Mark. 146 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: Because I'm like, I know, like that's even my point, No, listen, 147 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: But we were watching it and there is this controversy 148 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: on it, and I felt very passionate about something that 149 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: happened where I even like made it like an Instagram 150 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: story today of you probably had no. 151 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: Idea what I was talking about. 152 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: Idea, Yeah, where I feel so strongly that this guy 153 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: got jipped and ripped off and it was not fair 154 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: and it was not right and Patrick would not agree 155 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: with me, and so I found myself getting a little 156 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: bit heated and being like, what do you mean, how 157 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: can you not see this, And it's because I felt 158 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: that to be so factual, Like my opinion felt like 159 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: a fact, and it didn't feel like that to him. 160 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: So that I use that examples. It doesn't just happen 161 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: with stuff regarding faith. It happens all the time, but 162 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: when it's about like the afterlife, like there wasn't much Like, Okay, 163 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: if Patrick doesn't agree with me, it's hard for me 164 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: because like, how can you think that? But I'm not 165 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: afraid of what's going to happen to him when he dies. Yeah, 166 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: that's high stakes, right, Yeah, so I get that, like 167 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: this is even bigger than that, and so there's going 168 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: to have to be some willingness to do some coping 169 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: around or work around. What do I do when when 170 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: somebody doesn't agree and believe what I believe? That's hard, 171 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: especially somebody who maybe used to think that and her 172 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: job as a parent is to protect you. Yeah. Can 173 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: we go back to when you were talking about the 174 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: mom wants to connect in this way and you've told 175 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: her that that's not the way you want to connect. 176 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: So you've given her these options, she's not really hearing them. 177 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: What questions might you offer this listener? To kind of 178 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: sit on or what feedback might you give somebody who 179 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: wants a relationship with somebody who is causing this kind 180 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: of I don't know, discomfort for them. 181 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: I would think about looking at what needs are not 182 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 3: being met, what needs for you are not being met, 183 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 3: and think about needs of the child, like the need 184 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 3: to speak your truth, which your truth is different than 185 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 3: your mom's now, and your mom is witnessing you in 186 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 3: a transition where you used to have the same truth 187 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 3: and now you don't, So the need to speak your truth, 188 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 3: and they need to have separateness and boundaries so you're 189 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 3: allowed to evolve from the faith you had as a 190 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 3: kid or the faith that your parents have. And part 191 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 3: of your responsibility is to own your needs and understand 192 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 3: them so that you can advocate for yourself in them. 193 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 3: And that doesn't mean that the person on the receiving 194 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 3: end of that is going to give us what we need, 195 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 3: but we're you're at least doing our work to acknowledge 196 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 3: and advocate for it. And then if your mom doesn't, 197 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 3: she's not able to respond to it, or she just 198 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 3: can't stay with the discomfort of this. That feels like 199 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 3: a really good ground for a boundary then, like you 200 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 3: were saying. 201 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was saying before we even started recording 202 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: that this is really tough because there are some relationships 203 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: that we are in when this stuff kind of happens 204 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: and we're like, that's not really worth it, Like this 205 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: person is not like this is not worth it, But 206 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: this relationship sounds like one that it does feel worth 207 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: it to mend and to work through. And how do 208 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: I how do I maintain a relationship with somebody with 209 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: this situation that keeps coming up? 210 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: And when we want to set boundaries. 211 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: A lot of times, I feel like lately I've just 212 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: been seeing so many people just it's like, well, if 213 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: they can't do X, Y and Z, cut them off. 214 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 2: It's not always realistic. 215 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: Sometimes it is, and sometimes it needs to be done, 216 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: and it's with somebody like your mom, and it's really hard. 217 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: That doesn't always need to be what you do. 218 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: We can actually create internal boundaries that are very much 219 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: our responsibility to work through what it's like for us 220 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: when we hear things from people, to not make it 221 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: about us. So when you're does come at you with 222 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: these things, how do you create some kind of internal 223 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: boundary within yourself that almost creates that message of which 224 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: this sounds like very counterintuitive therapy speak, but I'm gonna 225 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: say anyway that like I'm rubber your glue. Whatever you 226 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: say bounce stuff me and sticks to you. Like let 227 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: them have their stuff and don't make it about you. Now, 228 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: that doesn't always fit. We can't always do that. Sometimes 229 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: that causes way too much harm. And there are also 230 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: places where we can say, like, oh, that's their stuff. 231 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: That's not about me, and that's their stuff, and we 232 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: can work on some stuff within ourselves versus taking on 233 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: that messaging and making it my job to either make 234 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: my mom happy. Maybe it's I want my mom to 235 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, talking about the needs of the child. I 236 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: want my mom to respect me. I want my mom 237 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: to understand me. So there might be some work you 238 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: need to do around that. Therefore, you can show up 239 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: and with that internal boundary. But I think boundaries is 240 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: a huge one here. There's very much a lot of 241 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 1: drama triangle going on in this and if any of 242 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: you guys aren't familiar with that, it's dysfunctional, chaotic ways 243 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: that we can communicate and have relationships. I have a 244 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: whole episode on it that I think is worth a 245 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: listen for anybody, because we all find ourselves on that. 246 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: But there's very much we want people to be in 247 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: these roles that they aren't to end, and we put 248 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: them there and then we always end up becoming a victim. 249 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: And you guys are almost both doing that. You're like 250 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: fighting for this victim spot versus how do I lower 251 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: expectations for this other person, create some boundaries, and then 252 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: do some self care because that stuff is really freaking hard. 253 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: And then I want to circle back to the thing 254 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: that you said the end. Is love about the person 255 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: giving the love or is it about the person receiving 256 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: the love? I don't think there's a one answer to that. 257 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: I think it is both and sometimes it's different. 258 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 3: This is a stumper. I just think that if love 259 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 3: is one sided, that doesn't feel like love because that 260 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 3: doesn't feel like connection to me. 261 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that I agree with that. I guess what when 262 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: I think of like it's both is when like we 263 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: talk about certain love languages of people, like, for example, 264 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: my mom is an amazing gift giver and acts of 265 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: service person. I mentioned that I made a meal in 266 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 1: my friend's crockpot and she sent one to my house. 267 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: I didn't ask for one. I didn't say I wanted one. 268 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: I just was like, I made a really good crockpot 269 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: meal and then she sent me one like she listens, 270 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: and that's amazing. 271 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 2: Right. That might not always be what I want. 272 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: Right, I might need somebody to affirm something in me, 273 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: or I really want some quality time or whatever it is, 274 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: and my mom and I might not be able to 275 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: give that perfectly to me all the time. But it's 276 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: also really important for me to recognize when she is 277 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: showing up in that way. 278 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: Now. 279 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: I think it's a little different here because the love 280 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: is hurting you. That's what it feels. Very different where 281 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: it's like it feels kind of icky to be like, well, 282 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: your mom's trying to love you, to just receive it. 283 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: If my mom was sending me poison, I don't think 284 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: i'd be Well, she just loves giving out poison. 285 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: Like you know what I mean. 286 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: But she's sending me crock pots, which I can and appreciate. 287 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: So that's where I say, not everybody's gonna be able 288 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: to show up perfectly to give us what we need. 289 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: It's our responsibility to ask for that, and when somebody 290 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: cannot give that to us, how do we get that 291 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,599 Speaker 1: and do that ourselves. We'll find that in other spaces, 292 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: but sometimes it is about, hey, this is what I 293 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: need right now, and it's very loving for you to 294 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: be able to hear that. We can't always do that 295 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: perfectly in every relationship, and that's why we need more 296 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: than one relationship in our lives, because not everybody's going 297 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: to fill every one of those gaps. All that to say, 298 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: I don't think there's zero hope for this relationship or 299 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: any relationship like this. I think sometimes there is, Like 300 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: if there's like a hard stop, there's no willingness, is 301 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: creating a lot of chaos within you. You are not 302 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: feeling respected in any way. Things are getting worse every 303 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: time you try to make them like. I think there 304 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: are times where it's like and that's where you kind 305 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: of create that boundary and maybe you don't spend as 306 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: much time with them as you want to, and in 307 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: some cases you do do the no contact thing. And 308 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: it sounds like even if your mom refuses to do 309 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: her own work, there could be still some work you 310 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: can do in order to be able to show up 311 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: more boundaried with your mom. I think what I really 312 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: want to say kind of to close this out, is 313 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: there's so much we don't know about this situation, so 314 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: we cannot and you're not even asking, You're just hearing 315 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: our thoughts and things that might come up. 316 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: And so I think, what I really am wanting. 317 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: To say and I am going to say so I 318 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: don't keep doing that, is this question is love about 319 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: the person giving the love or about the person receiving 320 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: the love. I really do think that that the answer 321 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: to that question is it's about both, and sometimes one 322 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: trumps the other with caveats, which is like the best 323 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: way I can say to like not answer that question 324 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: at all, because I think there's so many details I 325 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: would have to be talked about in every person's specific 326 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: situation in order for that to make sense. We can't 327 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: just blankt that out there, which is I think what 328 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the world wants in general, and has 329 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: made more difficult by the way sometimes even I put 330 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: things out on like social media and stuff like that. 331 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: So I'm really glad you have a therapist and that 332 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: you're able to work on this and talk about this 333 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: with us them, because I'm sitting here being. 334 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 2: Like I wish you were here so we could ask 335 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 2: you questions. 336 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: Like Y go more into this, but I really do 337 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: like you bringing in the needs of the child and 338 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: yeah this is hard. Okay, Well, thank you guys, and 339 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: thank you for this question and hopefully that was helpful 340 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: in some way. If you guys have feedback, comments, questions, 341 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: maybe you've gone through something similar and you want to 342 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: talk about or share something with this listener that was 343 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: helpful for you, you can send that to Catherine at 344 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: You Need Therapy podcast dot com. You can follow us 345 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: at you Need Therapy Podcast. You can follow me at 346 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: cat dot Defada, and you can follow Julia at the 347 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: Self Compassion Counselor on Instagram. I will be back with 348 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: you on Monday, and until then, I hope you have 349 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: the day you need to have.