WEBVTT - Haven’t Had COVID Yet? Maybe Genetics Could Be the Key

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<v Speaker 1>It's Tuesday, August two. I'm oscar A Mirrors from the

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<v Speaker 1>Daily Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>As the group of people who have not had COVID

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<v Speaker 1>continues to shrink, many ideas begin to squirrel about how

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<v Speaker 1>they've avoided it for so long. For some, it could

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<v Speaker 1>be a healthy immune system masking or just luck, but

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<v Speaker 1>could genetics also be at play. Katherine Wu, staff writer

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<v Speaker 1>at The Atlantic, joins us for how scientists are looking

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<v Speaker 1>into whether some are just naturally resistant to the virus.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us, Katherine, Thanks so much for having me. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we've seen the omicron sub variant b A five take

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<v Speaker 1>hold of the country. A lot of people are getting

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<v Speaker 1>infected for the first time, a lot of people are

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<v Speaker 1>getting reinfected, and we're looking at this incredibly shrinking number

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<v Speaker 1>of people that have never gotten COVID this whole time

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<v Speaker 1>that we've been going through the pandemic, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of questions what could be at play there.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people, it could be a mix of luck, just

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<v Speaker 1>really taking care of themselves, avoiding people and situation where

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<v Speaker 1>they could catch the virus. But others and scientists are

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<v Speaker 1>really looking to see if there could be any genetic

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<v Speaker 1>factors behind this. You know, we've known for a long

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<v Speaker 1>time that even when we're dealing with other viruses like HIV,

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<v Speaker 1>that some people are genetically resistant to some of that stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>So they're looking to see hoping to see if they

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<v Speaker 1>can find something related to coronavirus in that same sense.

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<v Speaker 1>So Captain tell us a little bit about that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you've summed up really well. You know, this

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<v Speaker 1>is an incredibly tantalizing idea. With the virus that is

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<v Speaker 1>so transmissible and have seemingly infected just about everyone in

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<v Speaker 1>the past couple of years, it is worth wondering, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what is going on with the people who haven't gotten it. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>so many factors contribute to whether or not a person

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<v Speaker 1>gets infected, and we do have to acknowledge here that

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people who think they haven't been infected

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<v Speaker 1>probably have. It's certainly not There may be people who

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<v Speaker 1>never get this, not just because they haven't had the

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity to because they can't get it. You know, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of pressent for this, and if science

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<v Speaker 1>just are able to find these people, it's not just

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<v Speaker 1>a gus kind of things. It could really lead to

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<v Speaker 1>new treatments, maybe even new vaccines, innovative ways to combat

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<v Speaker 1>the virus. And you know, scientists they're certainly hopeful because

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<v Speaker 1>they've already identified factors that can make infections that people

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<v Speaker 1>do get less severe. So genetics really can play a

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<v Speaker 1>huge role in what happens when pathogens try to infect us. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't know how readibly available something like this would be,

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<v Speaker 1>how easy it would be to track it down. You

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<v Speaker 1>had a note in your article of the fourteen hundred

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<v Speaker 1>or so viruses, bacteria, parasites, and fungi that can cause

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<v Speaker 1>diseases and humans, there's really only three that can be

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<v Speaker 1>shut out by some genetic tweaks. So we're looking at HIV,

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<v Speaker 1>neuro virus, and malaria parasite. But that still doesn't close

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<v Speaker 1>out the possibility that we can find something that could

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<v Speaker 1>hold off coronaviruses. And even in that, it doesn't have

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<v Speaker 1>to be a complete shut off. You know, even if

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<v Speaker 1>we can find some partial protection would be really good

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<v Speaker 1>when we're looking at future treatments and vaccines and all

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<v Speaker 1>that stuff. You know, it doesn't have to be the

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<v Speaker 1>full cell, And I think that's really important to think

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<v Speaker 1>about because it hits this middle ground that I think

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<v Speaker 1>is quite important to think about it this way. If

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<v Speaker 1>there is a wall that the virus needs to clear

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<v Speaker 1>to infect you, the wall doesn't need to be infinitely high,

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<v Speaker 1>just higher than the virus can jump in most circumstances,

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<v Speaker 1>and as long as you are not getting exposed to say,

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<v Speaker 1>enormous doses, that might be enough to protect you in

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of situations. And it's actually really hard to

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<v Speaker 1>tell the difference between some sort of genetic factor that

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<v Speaker 1>makes you difficult to infect it impossible to infect. But

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<v Speaker 1>that also means that you know, those circus factors are

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<v Speaker 1>going to be more common things that lower your risk

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<v Speaker 1>of infecting rather than completely eliminating it. But that's important

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<v Speaker 1>to keep in mind because no one should be walking

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<v Speaker 1>around right now assuming that they're impervious. If this sort

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<v Speaker 1>of genetic resistance exists, it's probably really rare. It could

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<v Speaker 1>come with other health cops, and it may not exist

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<v Speaker 1>at all, and so people should really rely on what's

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<v Speaker 1>more important, which is acquired in unity, like they can

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<v Speaker 1>get through vaccines that can protect people just as well

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<v Speaker 1>that can also build a wall that makes it really

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<v Speaker 1>hard for the virus to jump over. But the hope

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<v Speaker 1>is that, you know, maybe we could find something. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, when we talk about examples like HIV, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>we just had a story of another person overcoming the

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<v Speaker 1>HIV virus. Now this was done through stem cell transplants,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was done in coordination with genes from you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a person that was resistant to it. So if we

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<v Speaker 1>can find that magic thing, then hopefully we can learn

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<v Speaker 1>from that and really put that forward on COVID and

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<v Speaker 1>other coronaviruses. I think it's absolutely worthwhile to look into

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<v Speaker 1>this and even if we don't find, you know, something

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<v Speaker 1>equivalent to the story with HIV, even understanding what makes

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<v Speaker 1>disease worse to help us make it better through interventions.

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<v Speaker 1>So this kind of research, the importance that it really

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<v Speaker 1>can't be discounted. And there is some studies I guess

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<v Speaker 1>going on right now. I know there's teams of scientists

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<v Speaker 1>that are coordinating with people that have not gotten COVID

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<v Speaker 1>so far and they're really looking into them. What kind

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<v Speaker 1>of work is being done on that front. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think one of the big takeaways here it's just

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<v Speaker 1>how hard this is. You know, you cited that statistics

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<v Speaker 1>before about how you know, a lot of scientists are

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<v Speaker 1>really only sure about three microbes that can be shut

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<v Speaker 1>out by genetical registans out of the fourteen hundred plots

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<v Speaker 1>that are known to be capable of infecting us in

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<v Speaker 1>causing disease. That's not necessarily because it is only three,

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<v Speaker 1>but just because this is so difficult to prove. There

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<v Speaker 1>are other candidates out there, but it's really hard to say, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a slam dunk. We definitely have some sort

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<v Speaker 1>of genetic existance here. I think about how difficult it

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<v Speaker 1>is to even figure out that someone has been infected

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<v Speaker 1>by this coronavirus. You have to catch that infection in time,

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<v Speaker 1>because i'mlike HIV, this is not typically a chronic infection.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, people do develop antibodies, even can try to

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<v Speaker 1>look for those months later, but antibodies also fade, and

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<v Speaker 1>you can't always look for the same types of antibodies

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<v Speaker 1>and everyone because some antibodies can be elicited by both

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<v Speaker 1>infections and vaccines, and researchers may try to look for

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<v Speaker 1>things that stick around longer, like T cells another type

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<v Speaker 1>of immune response, but those they're much harder to study.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not just a test that you can do on

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<v Speaker 1>a stick at the drug store. And if people aren't

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<v Speaker 1>paying super close attention to this and they don't have

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<v Speaker 1>documentation that they probably weren't infected at the time, it's

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<v Speaker 1>really difficult and scientists basically have to rule out were

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<v Speaker 1>you in circumstances that led you to be heavily exposed

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<v Speaker 1>but not get infected. Otherwise it would be everyone who

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<v Speaker 1>has been you know, masking vigilantly, and that would create

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of noise in this data. It's just a

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<v Speaker 1>really difficult connection to nail. Yeah, just for now, just

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<v Speaker 1>an interesting look to see how genetics could play a

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<v Speaker 1>factor in this. I was part of that no COVID

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<v Speaker 1>clever quite some time and got me a few months ago,

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<v Speaker 1>So so I'm out. You know, you can't count me

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<v Speaker 1>in then anymore. But always looking to see what's developing

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<v Speaker 1>their Katherine wu staff writer at The Atlantic, Thank you

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<v Speaker 1>very much for joining us. Thanks very much for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Oscar Ramors and this has been reopening America. Don't

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<v Speaker 1>forget effort today's big news stories. You can check me

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<v Speaker 1>out on the Daily Dive podcast every money through Friday,

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