1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty and relationships. It's The Velvet's 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson. 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 2: Jodi White is back on the podcast. You've fee with 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 2: us twice now, right, this is the third time, I. 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 3: Think so, yeah, a couple of I've lost tracks as 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 3: several years. 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 2: Yes, and then I've done your podcast. We've worked together, 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: We've had a lot of conversation, so but I do 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: think this is the third time. And if you guys 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 2: have missed that podcast. Jody is a psychotherapist, coach and 11 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: podcaster that specializes in relational trauma, love, addiction, and codependency. 12 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 2: So we've talked a lot about those things. I've also 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: worked with you in that capacity and it's been so 14 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: helpful for me all the work that we did. But 15 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: I messaged you. I guess this is a couple of 16 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: weeks ago. Now, I was just driving in the car 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: and I had been watching that show that Jerry Seinfeld 18 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: does called Comedians and Cars Getting Coffee, which is hilarious 19 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: if you guys haven't watched it, but it was the 20 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: episode he did with Tina Fay, And there's sitting at 21 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: a cafe just having this conversation like about social media, 22 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 2: and Tina Fay says, isn't it interesting that we need 23 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 2: an audience for everything now? Like we're sitting here posting 24 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: about our food that we're eating, and we need some 25 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: sort of validation or response to that, Like we're no 26 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: longer really living our lives. 27 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 4: We just need an audience. 28 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: So I'm driving in my car and I was like, wait, 29 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: is this the same as love addiction? Like, and if 30 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: we're looking at social media in the same way we 31 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: look at a relationship, are we out there all the 32 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 2: time just chasing validation? So I brought you in and 33 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 2: I wanted to have this conversation and I was saying 34 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 2: to you before the podcast, like I really want this 35 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: just to be a conversation of two people who are 36 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: just thinking about these questions. I don't know that we 37 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: have some big solution, but it's an interesting thought and 38 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: I just wanted to share that with the listeners. 39 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 4: So here we are, Yeah, here we are. 40 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: Well. And when you emailed me about this, of course, 41 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 3: my first but, as with most things, is oh well, 42 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 3: let's look at it through the lens of PM melodies. 43 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 3: Model Melody wrote Facing Codependents and Facing love addiction, and 44 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: she has a treatment model. But then I also thought, well, 45 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 3: let's look at it through specifically those symptoms of love addiction. 46 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 3: And then of course I also started thinking about all 47 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: kinds of things you know, that I'm dealing with as 48 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 3: far as social media, and this year in particular, I 49 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 3: have really stepped back from social media and that struggle 50 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 3: with what does that mean? What does that say about me? 51 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: Is my business going to go under because I'm not 52 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 3: posting as much? It's like survival almost sure, And that's 53 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 3: pretty messed up, yeah about it? 54 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that we would feel forced to do that even 55 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: if it's not truly what we want to be doing. 56 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: There is this panic, which is a similar panic I 57 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: think you feel in a toxic relationship, where it's like 58 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: the abandonment whatever it is. But I go through the 59 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 2: same thing where I'm like, if I don't post, do 60 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: I lose my business? 61 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 3: Like? 62 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: Do those things equate to each other? And so I'm 63 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: abandoning myself often to follow this model that we've created. 64 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: And isn't that the recipe for like all of these 65 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: toxic behaviors that we've talked about in the past. 66 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and you just said this model that we've created, 67 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 3: I mean we've played a part in building this, but 68 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 3: really it was built and we stepped into it. 69 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 4: You're right, that is true because. 70 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 3: I was thinking about just a few years ago, and 71 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 3: I can't remember who said this, but it was a 72 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 3: therapist who is not on social media. I heard her 73 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: talking on a podcast. I think the interviewer was asking, 74 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 3: aren't you afraid that you'll be irrelevant or you won't 75 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 3: stay relevant if you're not on social media? And that 76 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 3: therapist said, actually, in order to stay relevant, I have 77 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: to be away from social media. And it clicked with 78 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 3: me because as a therapist, my priority is working with 79 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 3: my clients, and anything else that takes away my energy, 80 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 3: you know, or my ability to really be focused and 81 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 3: be regulated when I work with my clients, that has 82 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 3: to be set aside. And so what I heard this 83 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 3: therapist on this podcast saying was in order for me 84 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 3: to be relevant and do the work I really want 85 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,839 Speaker 3: to do, I need to remove something, you know that's 86 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 3: take away from my ability to do that. 87 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: That makes total sense to me. It does become almost 88 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: like a distraction or an energetic suck. Let's go back though, 89 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 2: because we mentioned the PM melody model, can you talk 90 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: through what that is and the different characteristics, because I 91 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: think that'll give the listeners maybe a little bit of 92 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 2: a foundation of how we're making this comparison. 93 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so love addiction, right, Love addiction is rooted in codependence. 94 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: The codependence comes first, and PIA also refers to codependence 95 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 3: as developmental immaturity due to developmental trauma. And so those 96 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 3: five core symptoms of codependence or developmental immaturity would be 97 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 3: issues with self esteem. The second is issues with boundaries, 98 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 3: The third is issues with reality. 99 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: Okay, we're starting to laugh because it's like, uh, hello, okay, the. 100 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 3: Issues with dependence. And then the last one is issues 101 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 3: with moderation. And so if we look at our social 102 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 3: media habits, behaviors usage through that lens, Let's say I'm 103 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 3: talking to someone who says, every time I get on Instagram, 104 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 3: and I refer to Instagram a lot because it's really 105 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 3: the one I use the most, and it's one I 106 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 3: think a lot of us use the most. It could 107 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 3: be Facebook, it could be TikTok, any of them. If 108 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 3: someone says, you know, every time I get on there, 109 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 3: I just feel so disregulated, you know, I start to 110 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 3: feel really crappy about myself. And so if we look 111 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: at that particular case, it's like, all right, if you 112 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 3: could check in with yourself and say, okay, where's where's 113 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 3: your self esteem? Even if we could create a pause 114 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 3: before we get on the app. Am I feeling one 115 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 3: down right now? Or am I feeling one up? And 116 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: often that's going to be the sign not to get 117 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 3: on there we're feeling insecure in any way, or we're 118 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 3: even if we're feeling one up, you know we're feeling 119 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 3: better then, and so to watch that. But then boundaries, 120 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 3: you know, we look at what are my boundaries with 121 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 3: social media? Am I in line with my boundaries right now? 122 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 3: Do I have functional boundaries here? And because social media 123 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,679 Speaker 3: does not come with built in boundaries, I mean, yes, 124 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: there are community guidelines and rules and regulations, but I 125 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 3: mean as far as boundaries to keep you safe, really 126 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 3: that's your responsibility right right. But then reality, to me 127 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 3: is the big one is to look at being able 128 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: to own our reality because so often we get on 129 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 3: social media it's not reality a lot of times. You know, 130 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: if we're using it for personal reasons and we're following 131 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 3: a lot of personal accounts or let's call them influencers, 132 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 3: I'm not even sure if we use that term anymore. 133 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 3: But we're seeing stuff that is not the full story, right, 134 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 3: And so we back up to self esteem and we 135 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 3: look get you're already feeling insecure or one down and 136 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 3: you go in and you see something like that. How 137 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: is that going to affect yourself esteem? 138 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 4: Oh? I mean it can rock you. 139 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 3: And then there's dependence. You know, we can become very 140 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 3: dependent on social media. I mean for business or for 141 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 3: personal use. You can feel dependent on it like a 142 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 3: way to stay connected or how you get your social connection, which. 143 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 4: Is how you get your news, news, a lot of things. 144 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And then moderation. I mean we can just 145 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 3: look at that which is a joke, right, I mean, 146 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: and we have to have the boundaries in order to 147 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 3: be moderately using Instagram or social media in the first place. 148 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 3: But looking at it through that lens of her model 149 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 3: can give you a lot of information about how you're 150 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 3: using social media. But if you really look at let's 151 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: pull out the issue with reality, because I think that's 152 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 3: something that's most important. So Pia has four parts of reality, 153 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 3: and one is your physical reality. So it's what do 154 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 3: I feel in my body right now? What's my reality, 155 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 3: Am I regulated? Rounded? So if we could do that 156 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 3: before getting on an app of any sort, like a 157 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 3: social media or even a dating app, if we're going 158 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: to go there, But you know, am I in my body? 159 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: Am I regulated right now? But then it's also once 160 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 3: we get on there to notice am I feeling just regulated? Okay? 161 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 3: What's the story in my head? That's the second part. 162 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 3: It's our thinking reality. What am I thinking about this? 163 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 3: What's the story in my head? A lot of times 164 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 3: it might be I'm getting caught up in comparison, So 165 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: I'm feeling like I need to be doing more. I 166 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 3: need to be using that product, I need to be 167 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 3: doing that Gasha, which I'm a huge fan of. 168 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 2: But I just posted a video about Glasha. That's what 169 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: she's saying that. 170 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 3: And I love it. I'm so into facial cupping right 171 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 3: now that my feet is full of it right, yes, 172 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: And it's constantly me thinking I'm not doing it enough. 173 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 3: I need to do right right. That's a random example. 174 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 3: But you know, so what's the thinking reality, like what's 175 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 3: going on in your head? And then that's going to 176 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 3: influence your emotion. You know what emotional reality you're experiencing 177 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 3: when you're on the social media apps, like there could 178 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 3: be fear, worry, grief, So to be able to really 179 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 3: look at what is my reality because I think so 180 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 3: often we get on there and we check out. 181 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 2: Well, that's what I was just thinking as you're saying 182 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: that that would take such a moment of getting into 183 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 2: consciousness with yourself. And I think a lot of times, 184 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: I know what I'm doing with social media is completely unconscious. 185 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: And you mentioned disregulated. I had a somatic therapist once 186 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: tell me that motion of just like I'm doing what 187 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: you do when you scroll Instagram or Twitter, whatever, TikTok, 188 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: and that finger motion is a way that we have 189 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: learned to regulate our nervous system, Like it's like a 190 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 2: coping mechanism now, and that even that motion, And so 191 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 2: I started to pay attention when I was just doing that, 192 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: like the scrolling through. And one of the things that's 193 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: been helpful to me is go, wait, what's going on 194 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 2: with you? Like where are you right now? That you're 195 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 2: needing to self soothe in some weird way? But how 196 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: often are we not asking ourselves those questions? I mean 197 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 2: that's like on the regular it's just this unconscious thing 198 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: where I pick up my phone, I open the app, 199 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: I'm on it and I don't even know why. 200 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 3: And social media is such an easy target to do that. 201 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 3: I removed the Instagram app this summer, and I caught 202 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 3: myself opening up my email all the time. So if 203 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 3: it's not one thing, it's another. So I had to 204 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 3: take my email off my phone and make that it's 205 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 3: just something that my brain needed to do to be busy, 206 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 3: to busy myself. 207 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: And so it's and actually looking for with that, like 208 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: what why does our brain do that? 209 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 4: Do you think? 210 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 3: So if I look at for myself, you know, when 211 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 3: it comes to my email, which is different I'm sure 212 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: than social media, but email, it's like overworking, overfunctioning, okay, 213 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: And so that is that has have to do with 214 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 3: proving my value, making sure I get back to people 215 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 3: right away, and you know, to then build in some 216 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 3: boundaries which I've gotten much better with. Can feel really 217 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 3: uncomfortable not to get back to someone on the weekend, 218 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 3: let's say, right or after five pm. Because we've gotten 219 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 3: to this point where the way we work it's so 220 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 3: different than the way we used to work. You know, 221 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 3: there's no real schedule we work, especially if we work 222 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: for ourselves. We work all the time. Yeah, so to 223 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 3: build those boundaries in and know that that is self care, 224 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 3: but it can be really uncomfortable. 225 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: I'm seeing now why this was pinged to me, because 226 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 2: it really is the same thing. And I think when 227 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 2: I started working on my own codependency, and I hate 228 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 2: the word love addiction. You know, I say this to 229 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: you every time because that isn't really what it is 230 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 2: to me. If for me it was always a disconnection 231 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 2: from self, and all of those symptoms could be a 232 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 2: part of that, like undervaluing myself, a lack of relationship 233 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: with myself, no boundaries, poor boundaries, all of this, and 234 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 2: it all is rooted from you trying to maintain some 235 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,599 Speaker 2: sense of security and all of that. And so I 236 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 2: think the word love addiction throws people a lot of 237 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 2: times because it sounds insane, like it just sounds and 238 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 2: really it's actually when I started to learn about it, 239 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: I'm like, it makes so much sense why my body 240 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 2: and brain is doing this. So anyway, all of that 241 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 2: is to say, as I'm listening to you talk about 242 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 2: all of those things, and it really is exactly how 243 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 2: we live our lives on such a bigger scale than 244 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: just in relationship, and I think social media is like 245 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 2: a very big example of that. And even you mentioned 246 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: to me when I first initially reached out to you 247 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 2: the dopamine connection here, And I think that a lot 248 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: of times in life we are kind of operating without 249 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: being having any sort of awareness of these hits that 250 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: we need chemically or get chemically. And when I'd started 251 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: doing my work on codependency, there was all of these 252 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 2: new ways I had to retrain my brain to get 253 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 2: those same I don't want to call them highs, those 254 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: same connections with dopamine, like going on a walk outside 255 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: or you know, you have to like really be conscious 256 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: about that versus texting someone all the time, or being 257 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: in a dysfunctional relationship and overfunctioning and making it all 258 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 2: work and all of that stuff. And so I'm wondering, 259 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 2: is there a way here where we need to start 260 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 2: looking at the dopamine connection, what's happening to our brain, 261 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 2: and then how to actually take these models from relationship 262 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: work that we've done and incorporated into the other parts 263 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 2: of our lives. 264 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 3: So I read something interesting about dopamine because I always 265 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 3: equated dopamine with pleasure, right, Yeah, So this is what 266 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 3: I read. Dopamine is related to the desire to repeat 267 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 3: a behavior or situation that was previously pleasurable. So it's 268 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 3: the desire to repeat that behavior that was previously pleasurable. 269 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 3: So with love addiction, for example, I always say it's 270 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 3: about the trying. Yeah, it's about the process, the process, 271 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 3: because if you got what you thought you wanted, you know, 272 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 3: it's you no longer want it. Like PM Melody will say, 273 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 3: we find people who are walking away from us very 274 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 3: attractive because it's too as they're Yeah, as soon as 275 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 3: they're available, it's too uncomfortable. You know. It's not because 276 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 3: we decide, oh no, I'm no longer interested, I'd rather 277 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 3: chase you. It's because our attachment system, our developmental trauma 278 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 3: says intimacy is too much. I can't tolerate it. So 279 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 3: if you turn around and look at me, I can't 280 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 3: tolerate that, right, right, And so if we look at 281 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 3: the process, right and so if being on Instagram and 282 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 3: scrolling is a process, what pleasure do we get out 283 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 3: of that? Though, Like you were just saying, it's really 284 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 3: is it really just about the actual swiping that that's 285 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 3: gonna be? 286 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: It likes, maybe like I mean if you get if 287 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 2: you you know on Instagram specifically, it's like you post 288 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 2: one picture and you get a ton of likes, well 289 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: then the next one if you don't get it, I 290 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: mean watching my body react to that, and how I 291 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 2: would personalize it, Like I've actually done a a lot 292 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 2: of work around this to not be this way, but 293 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: like the way that it would impact my self esteem 294 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: when there's so many other layers to these algorithms. Now, 295 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: like we have no idea how any of that is working. 296 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: And I do think it's actually set up to do 297 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: exactly what I'm describing, so you keep coming back, which 298 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 2: is the definition of addiction, I guess, literally making us 299 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: all addicted and we're not talking about it and it's crazy. 300 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it is set up like that. I 301 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 3: can be gone on Instagram for a couple of months, 302 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 3: I come back, I post once and I call it traveling. 303 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 3: It must travel well because it's all the eyes get 304 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 3: on it and there's yeah engagement, and then I can 305 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 3: post the very next day and it is a fraction 306 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 3: like that. And so it's set up to this is 307 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 3: how I say, it's set up to mess with your head. Yes, participants, well. 308 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, but think about what you just said about dopamine. 309 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 2: It is literally set up to really play into that 310 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: chemical need of ours. 311 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 4: So what would some solutions be to that boundaries? 312 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 3: First of all, but it's really how we get in 313 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 3: touch with our values. For example, one of my core 314 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 3: values is integrity. And so let's back up for a 315 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 3: second because with social media, you know, we have our 316 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 3: behaviors on there, and one of our behaviors could be 317 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 3: the scrolling, to be the commenting, it could be the messaging, 318 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 3: the posting, right, and then there's purpose, like what's your purpose? 319 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 3: Is it business or is it your personal account? And 320 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 3: you're engaging with people? And so I guess in that regard, 321 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 3: we could look at what's my why for getting on 322 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 3: here right now? 323 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 4: What is my why? 324 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 3: But also is this in line with my values? So 325 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 3: you have to look at then is this if it's personal, 326 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 3: you look at values there you're personal. And also we 327 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 3: have different values for our business. Sometimes too, when I'm 328 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 3: posting for my business, I have to look at am 329 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 3: I an integrity right now? You know? Am I posting 330 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 3: just to post something because I feel like I need 331 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 3: to because I haven't been on there in a while. 332 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 3: Or you know, am I posting because this is actually 333 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 3: genuinely helpful? Right? And then if it's personal, it's also like, 334 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 3: why am I getting on here right now? Is this 335 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 3: in line with my values? Is what I'm commenting? In 336 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 3: line with my values? But it's really to me if 337 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 3: we could pause before we get on there, which is 338 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 3: really hard to do. And even if you catch yourself 339 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 3: on there, you can pause then too, right, and just 340 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 3: to check in with yourself. And that pause is where 341 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 3: we check in with our body first. You know, do 342 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 3: I feel regulated? Do I feel disregulated? Right now? 343 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 2: What does it feel to feel not regulated? For anyone 344 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: listening that might be like, well, how do I know? 345 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 3: So? Anxiety? Anxious? Right? Your heart's beating really fast. Maybe 346 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 3: you're not even in your body, you're not even aware 347 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 3: of your body. So that's why the pause can be 348 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 3: really hard because if you're you know, we're really conditioned 349 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 3: to live outside of our body. 350 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, everything is asking us to do that. In our world. 351 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 4: It's crazy, Okay, go ahead, and. 352 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 3: From the time that we're young too, right, I mean 353 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 3: really yeah, and it's all about living outside of ourselves 354 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 3: and that social media just fits right into that. And 355 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 3: so I really believe the awareness would have to start 356 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 3: as a plan of action moving forward. Like if someone's 357 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 3: listening right now and they say, I know I need 358 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 3: to address my behavior with social media. Okay, so let 359 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 3: me get writing out a plan, like a promise to yourself, 360 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 3: even like I'm not going to get on social media 361 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 3: without taking a pause first and just to make it 362 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 3: sort of a conscious Like that's starting small, Like every 363 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 3: time I pick up the phone, I'm picking up the phone. 364 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 3: I'm saying the phone. Pick up the phone and pause 365 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 3: and check in with yourself. What am I feeling in 366 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 3: my body? Am I in my body? Am I feeling 367 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 3: just regulated? This might not be the best time to 368 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 3: get on here right now, it's a good start, and 369 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 3: I think that's what we have to start with, though, 370 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 3: Like if we come up with some grand plan. 371 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 4: It's just not going far. 372 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, But it's like little pieces, step by step. That's 373 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 3: how I would work with clients too. It's like, don't 374 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 3: worry about step. 375 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 4: Two, just worthy step one. 376 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 3: Focus on step one right now. 377 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: It is so fascinating because as you're saying that again, 378 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about even the way my mood will be 379 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 2: if I have a slow morning, for instance, like at work, 380 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: I don't have to start right away. I'll notice myself 381 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: in a funk by eleven or something. I'm like, what 382 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 2: is going on with me today? Why am I in 383 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: a bad mood? Most of the time, what I'm noticing 384 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 2: is that I've been scrolling unconsciously way more than I 385 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 2: do on a busy day, and there is some impact 386 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: to my mood that happens. And I don't know whether 387 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 2: that is because it just takes me outside of my 388 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,959 Speaker 2: connection with myself, or if it's the comparison, or if 389 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 2: it's all of it, like if it just makes me 390 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 2: start to feel like, oh, well, these people seem like 391 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,479 Speaker 2: they have it all together and I'm and hear on 392 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 2: my couch right now or whatever. But we all do 393 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 2: that because i'ven't been told a million times people look 394 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 2: at my life and go, well, you just seem like 395 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 2: you always have it going. 396 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 4: On, and I'm like, oh, no at all. But that's 397 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 4: what we do. 398 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 2: And so it's just so interesting to me to really 399 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: start to look at this isn't just oh, let's talk 400 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: about this in this way of you know, social media 401 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 2: may not be the best thing for us, and blah blah, 402 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 2: blah blah blah, like maybe try to. 403 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 4: Be more conscious. 404 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 2: It is, genuinely, I think, very much impacting the chemical 405 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: balances in our body, our moods, the way we feel 406 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 2: about ourselves, all of those things which are really big 407 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: players in your day to day life when you think 408 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 2: about it. 409 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. So when I was growing up in the seventies 410 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 3: and eighties, magazines were everything. Yeah, I mean they were 411 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 3: my whole life. My aunt was an artist and she 412 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 3: had stacks of vogues and glamours and travel magazines, and 413 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 3: I would just lose myself in these magazines. I thought 414 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 3: it was so and it totally fed my fantasy life too, right. 415 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: But the thing is about magazines, there was always an endpoint. 416 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 3: There was a last page of the matter. 417 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 4: It's over, it's over. 418 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 3: And I think about this with Instagram, for example, there's 419 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 3: no endpoint. It just goes on and on and on, 420 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 3: and so you get on there. It's not only what 421 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 3: you're following, it suggested content, suggested ads, and it's so 422 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 3: much information coming at us. I'd always envision this glass 423 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 3: of water that is just totally full and it's just overflowing. 424 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 3: We can't retain all that information. I don't think our 425 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 3: nervous systems were built to have so much coming at 426 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 3: us all the time. But I loved magazines so much. 427 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 3: I ended up working in the magazine industry the first 428 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 3: sixteen years of my life, and I saw the manipulation 429 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 3: that goes into you, especially the women's magazines, and the 430 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 3: publishers want you to feel bad about yourselves. 431 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 4: Well yeah, because then you'll buy the products are trying 432 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 4: to sell, right. 433 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 3: The advertisers will be more successful, the magazines will sell 434 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 3: And it all felt so gross to me, and so 435 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 3: I left that industry. But I think about that a 436 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 3: lot with Instagram and how we are willingly just by 437 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 3: picking up our phone and getting on the app, we're 438 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 3: walking through a door into this whole other world, and 439 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 3: we don't know what's going to hit us in the 440 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 3: face as soon as we get in there. 441 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 2: And it's crazy because even I mean, I've been through 442 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 2: certain situations, I'm watching some of my clients go through 443 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 2: certain things. Even the news I'm doing air quotes for 444 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 2: the you guys who can't see me. The news that 445 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 2: we're getting is so just about clicks now, like there 446 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: is a lot of times no truth to the things 447 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 2: that even like a People magazine is posting, yet we 448 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 2: are scrolling through so fast we digest one sentence of it, 449 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, we have a new 450 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 2: belief about a person that is actually like nowhere near 451 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 2: the truth. And it's just wild to me because again 452 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 2: it's unconscious that we're taking this in, but it's either 453 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: making us feel bad about ourselves, making us feel bad 454 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 2: about other people. And I just don't know that our brains, 455 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 2: like you said, have enough space to be processing through 456 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 2: all of this information all the time. And that's not 457 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: even the only place because then it's like you're getting 458 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 2: alerts from all these news you know, our cell phones 459 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: in general are just full of oversaturation. So that is 460 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: an interesting piece of it. But like, what about work, 461 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 2: because I think you and I both struggle with this, 462 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 2: and I think if I didn't have a business that 463 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 2: I felt relied on having a social media presence, I 464 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: think I might quit it at this point because it 465 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 2: doesn't seem to serve a positive purpose in my life 466 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 2: other than that. But like you said, that therapist is 467 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 2: not doing a page and I envy her for that, 468 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: you know. And then at the same time, it's like 469 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 2: social media has also brought me a lot of exposure 470 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 2: that I wouldn't have had otherwise, and so it's grown 471 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 2: parts of my business. So how are you finding the 472 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 2: balance with your life with that? 473 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 3: I mean, I agree, I think about it sometimes and 474 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 3: you know, leaving versus staying on. And this year I 475 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 3: stepped way back. I had some health stuff come up 476 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 3: at the end of last year and I just thought, 477 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 3: what's important to me? This is not that important to me. 478 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 3: So I really practiced moderation early in the year with 479 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 3: Instagram and then I just stepped a way back and 480 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 3: nothing terrible happened. You know, I didn't lose my business. 481 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 3: I still have all the people. Clients are still coming 482 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 3: if you believe it, and I also know that it 483 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 3: can help my business. Right. But really, going back to 484 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 3: what you said talking about love, addiction, codependence, and recovery, 485 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 3: you know, all this comes down to the relationship you 486 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 3: have with yourself. I mean, that's really what it's about. 487 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 3: Because we really were not taught to nurture that relationship 488 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 3: or get to know ourselves separate from what others want 489 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,719 Speaker 3: us to be or want us to value. And so 490 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 3: if you can look look at social media through that lens, too, 491 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 3: like get focused on you, like what is important to 492 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 3: me and going back to what is that? Why why 493 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 3: am I on social media? And then continue through that 494 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 3: lens you know of your purpose of your why have 495 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 3: a plan. I use plannily okay, which is the third 496 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 3: party app that allows you to upload all your posts 497 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 3: and you can do your captions and that way, I'm 498 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 3: spending less time on Instagram. 499 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 4: But automatically post them for you. 500 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 3: Yeah okay, it'll send you reminders. There's different ways that 501 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 3: it works, but it's just easier on my nervous system 502 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 3: to get in and have this the way it's laid out, 503 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: and you can plan ahead and I have tons of stuff. 504 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 3: I've been really mindfully putting stuff in there over the 505 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 3: last couple of months, and one day soon I'll get 506 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 3: back on and I'll start posting, probably by the time 507 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: this podcast is ready. But it's just something that you know, 508 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 3: as far as if we could instead of live outside 509 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 3: of ourselves and what we think others want from us 510 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 3: or how they're viewing us, or you know, there's this 511 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 3: idea of the audience and what they're expecting, Like people 512 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 3: are waiting for us to post something. 513 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 2: It's not true but it's pay attention. Everyone is living 514 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 2: their own life. 515 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, but it feels very real. 516 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 2: Of course, yeah it feels So it's the same though 517 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 2: as when you're in a relationship and you don't want 518 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 2: to lose the relationship, Like it's the panic to me 519 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: feels similar. So I'm going to overfunction and do things 520 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 2: that are outside of alignment with what I'm truly feeling 521 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 2: to make sure you stay around. Like that is what 522 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 2: it feels like to me, And I know how that 523 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 2: has negatively impacted my life, like on a personal level, 524 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 2: So when I'm looking at my behavior, I'm like, wait, 525 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 2: this is the same thing, though, the pressure that I'm 526 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 2: putting on myself, the way I even talk to myself 527 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 2: when I don't do it, like oh, you're really lazy, 528 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 2: or why didn't you get that done? Like the shame 529 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: spirals I can go into because I'm like, you're self 530 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 2: sabotaging your business by doing that, you know, Like I 531 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 2: can create all of these narratives that aren't necessarily true. 532 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 2: But I'm so worried about losing the business that I've 533 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 2: built and work so hard for that I over compensate, 534 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 2: maybe sometimes or force myself into things that aren't exactly 535 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 2: in alignment with where I am that day. 536 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, as you're talking, I'm thinking about that issue with dependence, 537 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 3: which is why I'm great, right, And so it feels 538 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 3: like I will not survive without this thing when it's 539 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 3: it's not true, but it feels very real. And so 540 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 3: when we are dependent on something, we just stay hooked 541 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 3: in it, we stay keep feeding it because there's this 542 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 3: belief that I won't be able to survive without that. 543 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 2: Well, that was something that happened to me during COVID, 544 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 2: and I think that's maybe why I haven't enjoyed social 545 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 2: media as much since then. But I had so much 546 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 2: worth And this is just the truth, and this is 547 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: embarrassing to admit, but I had so much worth tied 548 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 2: into the following that I had built that when COVID 549 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 2: happened and work stopped and things changed, I literally found 550 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 2: myself saying who am I like? 551 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 4: Who am I. 552 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: Without all of this stuff and the fact that I 553 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 2: couldn't answer the question, because that's how broken my relationship 554 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 2: with myself was without someone else on social media telling me, 555 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: oh you look beautiful, or oh thank you for saying that, 556 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 2: or oh love your work or something. The fact that 557 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 2: I couldn't give that to myself was a massive red 558 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: flag for me in this whole dynamic, you know, And 559 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 2: I think that's where now I'm like, is this a 560 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 2: healthy thing for me to be doing? Because, like you said, 561 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 2: like why am I doing it? And so I'd love 562 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 2: that asking yourself the questions of like why and being 563 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 2: conscious of that versus just really tying. 564 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 4: Who we are into what we're doing. Yeah. 565 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 3: Well, and one thing, and this is something I'll tell 566 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 3: clients and I tell myself too, is that if something 567 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 3: feels bad to you, if it feels just regulating, if 568 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 3: it feels unsafe, that's it, period, Meaning you don't need 569 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 3: to fully understand why all the time, like in this 570 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 3: case with social media, to note this doesn't feel good 571 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 3: to me, It's like why isn't that enough? Why isn't 572 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 3: that information for us? 573 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 2: Why isn't it That is a great question, because that 574 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 2: is all that matters, right is are we being true 575 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 2: to ourselves in that time? Are we connecting to ourselves? 576 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: Are we listening to our bodies? And a lot of 577 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 2: times I'm not, I'm not even aware of my body 578 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 2: in those moments. Right, It's like a duty I feel 579 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: to post or something, you know, over. 580 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 3: These months of not being on Instagram much, not posting, 581 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 3: and not really getting on the app that much. But 582 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 3: when I do what I patch myself, it's almost like 583 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 3: I'm allowing myself permission to check out for a few minutes, 584 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 3: and then pretty quickly I'll start to feel just regulated. 585 00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 3: I'd look at it and go, wow, I have to 586 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 3: get off of here right now. It happens so fast. 587 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 3: Now when I consciously check in before I get on 588 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 3: there and say, I'm allowing myself in a few minutes 589 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 3: just to scroll, but it happens so fast because I 590 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 3: can see someone else doing something that I now think 591 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 3: I should be doing, or an advertisement for something that 592 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 3: now I have to go find those pants, you know. 593 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 3: I mean, it's just I will go off into a 594 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 3: million different directions. I can't stay present, and that's me. 595 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 3: I have a friend who she is so indifferent with 596 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 3: social media. She posts, She's like, Eh, what's the big deal? 597 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 3: You post? You don't post whatever? So not everyone has 598 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 3: this issue. So another thing, I'm a highly sensitive person. 599 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 4: Same so for us. 600 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 3: For anyone who's highly sensitive, you're going to be over 601 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 3: stimulated much more quickly. Than someone who is not a 602 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 3: highly sensitive posh. 603 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, you read one bad article, you absorb it. You 604 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: read something that someone's like, I'm absorbing everything from everyone 605 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: all the time, unless I'm very aware of what I'm 606 00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 2: taking in. 607 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. I actually had a Threads account for a minute. 608 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I. 609 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 3: Got so so quickly addicted to Threads. I was so 610 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 3: into all of these articles and certain topics and it 611 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 3: was so interesting. But I also found that, oh, this 612 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 3: is similar to how I can get caught up in 613 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 3: the comments. It's just so many opinions and so many 614 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 3: quote unquote experts, you know. And that's another thing about 615 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 3: social media is that there are quote unquote experts throwing 616 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 3: information at you. And we need to really use discernment 617 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 3: when we're on there, and I think that goes out 618 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 3: the window as soon as we feel just regulated. We're 619 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 3: not being discerning. 620 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 2: No, you can't even see straight, so how could you 621 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 2: be discerning? 622 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 4: Right? 623 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 3: Right? Right? But going back to the love addiction piece, 624 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 3: because you were talking about is it that we're looking 625 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 3: for that validation? And so let's first look love addiction 626 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 3: because I also, even though I specialize in this and 627 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 3: I truly believe in p a melodies work. I don't 628 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 3: like the term love addiction either, because it does describe 629 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 3: what we're talking about, right, because the love is not 630 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 3: romantic love. We're talking about childhood unconditional love, that love 631 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 3: that means you're safe, you're valuable no matter what you do, 632 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 3: and I'm here for you. I mean, it's that love 633 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 3: that that unconditional positive regard, as PA calls it, that 634 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 3: we should have gotten in childhood. We don't get it, 635 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 3: and we don't get it consistently. We go after it 636 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 3: from partners in adulthood. Right, Okay, so that's the love part. 637 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 3: It's not that necessarily we are going after romantic love, 638 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 3: even though that is kind of part of it gets 639 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 3: built in there. 640 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 2: Because of how it manifest and I think it's also 641 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 2: especially that can go into the big cultural thing too, 642 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 2: of like we're taught that that is the thing that 643 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 2: will make us feel better. Right, So that's how it 644 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 2: can manifest, is how I right. 645 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 3: Well, and we're also taught that culturally speaking, that we 646 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 3: are taught as women, if we're not partnered out, there's 647 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 3: something wrong with us exactly right. And there's a lot 648 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 3: of cultural messages, but that's one of them. So we 649 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 3: must be in a relationship, we must be wanted, we 650 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 3: must be desired in order to be valuable. And also 651 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 3: throw in this childhood stuff. I mean that creates the 652 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 3: recipe for love addiction. The addiction piece is more like 653 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 3: we're talking about that process of going after something that 654 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 3: felt good initially, because the thing about the addictive relationships 655 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 3: is initially they feel good. We wouldn't be in them 656 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 3: if they didn't feel good initially, and then things blow 657 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 3: up pretty quickly. 658 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, at some point it stops feeling good, And the 659 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 2: right point of this conversation about love addiction is that 660 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 2: that should be the indicator of like, Okay, maybe this 661 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 2: isn't the right relationship. Yeah, but if you are in 662 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 2: a place of operating from the love addiction or anxious 663 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 2: attachment or whatever you want to call it, you don't leave. 664 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 2: That becomes a sign to try to work harder, to 665 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 2: make the good come back, or whatever it is. 666 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 3: To try to get back. And that's what so much 667 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 3: of the love addictive relationships are about, is trying to 668 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 3: get back what you had that first little time. Then 669 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 3: when things were really not necessarily functional, you were. 670 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 4: A high in fantasy. 671 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, and usually it's a meshed. Initially, both people 672 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 3: are very a mesh. 673 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 674 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 3: So then one person starts to move and the other 675 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 3: person starts to move after them. Yeah, and so, and 676 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 3: that can go on for years. So looking at the 677 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,959 Speaker 3: three symptoms of love addiction Pia's symptoms, you know, which 678 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 3: is looking for that unconditional positive regard we should have 679 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 3: gotten in childhood, right because adult love, healthy adult love 680 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 3: comes with boundaries, right, Okay, it's not that childhood love 681 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 3: that no matter what you do to me, I'm going 682 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 3: to stick around. Right. So that's this first symptom. The 683 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 3: second one is assigning too much value to the other person, 684 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 3: and then the third is neglecting ourselves well in the relationship. 685 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 3: So if the first symptom is really about validation, seeking 686 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 3: that validation that I'm safe, I'm lovable, I'm worthy through 687 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 3: the lens of an unconditional love that we're trying to get. 688 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 3: But look at that with social. 689 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 4: Media, it's the same thing. 690 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,919 Speaker 3: We're seeking validation, which is lined up with value, which 691 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 3: goes with that issue of self esteem. 692 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 2: Which often too on social media, you're seeking that unconditional 693 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 2: love or whatever feeling from people who do not even 694 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 2: know you, right, so how could you could never get 695 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: that because they don't actually know you. 696 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 3: Right, they don't know you and you don't know them, 697 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 3: and you know that's right and important anyway, But that's 698 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 3: the assigning too much value. Yeah, so seeking validation from 699 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 3: the audience who we've assigned this value to, right, which 700 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:36,720 Speaker 3: made ourselves less valuable. 701 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 2: Right, because you're like not even necessarily wanting to post 702 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 2: except for I feel like I should. So here's this. 703 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: I don't listen to my body. Yeah, yeah, this is 704 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 2: I mean, this is why this came to me driving 705 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: it is like it really does feel like a similar 706 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 2: dynamic if you're not paying attention to it. Because obviously 707 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 2: we've mentioned this before, but like, there's so much work 708 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 2: around codeenancy, love, addiction. 709 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 4: You don't have to stay like that. 710 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 2: If that was how you found yourself in relationships, there 711 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 2: is work that you can do to heal those things. 712 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,919 Speaker 2: And I think that's probably the same with social media. 713 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 2: It's just that we are operating from such an unconscious 714 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 2: place that we wouldn't even know there is something to 715 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 2: work on or change or fix unless you start to 716 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 2: really look at how is this making me feel? And 717 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 2: like it's having some sort of negative impact on your life. 718 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 3: Right, and look how new social media is really in 719 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 3: rightline of things. Yeah, how dependent we already are on that. 720 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 3: I look at technology over the last hundred years, you 721 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 3: know how things slowly, things would be introduced, and since 722 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 3: the Internet came, it's just constantly social media, new apps, 723 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 3: new all the time. And so again it's you know, 724 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 3: this huge learning curve. And also you brought up the pandemic, 725 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 3: and I think about working with clients who and even 726 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 3: myself things changed, and I think a lot of us, 727 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 3: maybe it's just start culture and society. They were like, Okay, 728 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 3: it's done, let's move on. It's in the past now. 729 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 3: But a lot of us are still feeling stuff. And 730 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 3: what's interesting is that so all of us, all of 731 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 3: us experienced this, and collectively we're not really talking about this. Yeah, 732 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 3: so that's another thing to look at if you're addressing 733 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 3: this right now. How do you connect with people outside 734 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,919 Speaker 3: of the phone and technology. Do you connect in real 735 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 3: life with people? Do you get out in nature? Do 736 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 3: you move your body? Do you get out and like 737 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 3: you said, go for a walk, do you go to 738 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 3: the gym, do you do yoga? Like? What are you 739 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 3: looking for? Through social media, but also how are you 740 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 3: taking care of yourself outside of that? 741 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 742 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 2: The interesting thing is that as we might look at 743 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,439 Speaker 2: it as we're the most connected that we've ever been, 744 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 2: but we're actually the most disconnected, in my opinion, yeah, 745 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 2: that we've ever been, because we find false connection in 746 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 2: things like social media or even listening to podcasts. You know, 747 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 2: I think people can feel like, oh, well, I'm connecting 748 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 2: with someone, but you're not, Like that isn't an actual, 749 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 2: real connection. And so all of these things are helpful 750 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 2: and they can be great tools to utilize. It's just 751 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 2: I think a really important question to ask yourself how 752 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 2: are you connecting to others? And then how are you 753 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 2: connecting to yourself? Right, Because that's where this all stems from. 754 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 2: For me, is like it all starts with how I'm 755 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 2: connected to myself. And if I'm in a place where 756 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 2: I'm disconnected, I'll go I'll start looking for it everywhere, 757 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 2: like everywhere outside of myself. That is just the quickest 758 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 2: route for me typically, And when I notice myself doing that, 759 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 2: like needing the external something, I'm like, ooh, something is 760 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 2: off here then, because that means I'm not connected to myself. 761 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, you asked, what does it feel like when you're disregulated? 762 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 3: I always use the word wobbly. I feel wobbly. That's 763 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,240 Speaker 3: a good I mean my foundation is not in place. 764 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 3: I'm not in my body, and so, yeah, what you're 765 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 3: saying exactly. So going back to what can we do 766 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 3: about this, it's like if we can create that pause 767 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 3: before getting on the app, or even once you get 768 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:11,879 Speaker 3: on the app and you realize, oh my gosh, here 769 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 3: I am again on Instagram and didn't realize, cause I 770 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 3: can do that suddenly beyond there, how did I even 771 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 3: get on here? 772 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 4: I prom did something I'm not aware. 773 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 3: Of you, and you can still pause. It's not too late. 774 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 3: You can still pause and go, Okay, how am I 775 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 3: what's going on in my body right now? Because we 776 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 3: just don't ask ourselves that. 777 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 2: No, well, i'd said podcasts are not real connection. But 778 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 2: I did find a lot of help in your podcast. 779 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 2: I do mean these are great resources. I just don't 780 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 2: I think you also need real human connection. Yes, that 781 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 2: was the whole point of that. But Jody also has 782 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,359 Speaker 2: a podcast called Journals of a Love Addict. I've been 783 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 2: a guest on the podcast. It's so great. It's such 784 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 2: a great resource. Can you tell us a little bit 785 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 2: about what's going on with the podcast now. 786 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's another thing. I slowed down a little bit 787 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 3: this year on that I'm about to pick up again 788 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 3: for the last half of the year. So the podcast 789 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 3: started four years ago, maybe even during the pandemic. I'm 790 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 3: not even sure. Now my timeline is really blurry. 791 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 2: But that's another thing. I feel like I've lost years, 792 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 2: but that that whole time. 793 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 3: I have no timeline. Yeah, but it really started. That 794 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 3: was four years into my recovery. And here I am 795 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 3: four years later and realizing, oh, I always knew it 796 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 3: was p Melody's workouts like that, her work is just 797 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 3: so important. And then Kelly McDaniel's work came along, Ready 798 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 3: to Heal and Mother Hunger, And I'm in this place 799 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 3: now where I'm just devouring everything I can about culture 800 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 3: and how cultural messaging shapes us, especially as women, and 801 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 3: shapes us in relationships and then feeds those symptoms of love, addiction, 802 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 3: and codependence. So it's you know, we started out looking 803 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 3: at it as it's the developmental trauma. Yes, true, family 804 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 3: aboard and work is really important. It's the cultural messaging too, though. 805 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 3: We really have to look at that because that plays 806 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 3: such a role in how we see ourselves in relationships, 807 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 3: how we operate in relationships, you know, how we partner, 808 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 3: how we don't partner. So that is really what my 809 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 3: area of study is right now. 810 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 2: That is going to be interesting. When can we expect 811 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,240 Speaker 2: to hear some of those podcasts? 812 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 3: Probably starting later in October or early November. 813 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, if you guys want to keep up with Jody, 814 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 2: I know on Instagram you have journals of a Love Addict. 815 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 2: And then also what is your personal page? 816 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 3: It's at Jody White Underscore. 817 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 2: So after we talked about getting off social media, here 818 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 2: we are let's tell you guys were to find our 819 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 2: own social media. Do it in balance though, you know, 820 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 2: do it when it. 821 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 4: Works for you. 822 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely. 823 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 2: And obviously, if you guys listened and you are identifying 824 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,919 Speaker 2: with any of this stuff and you want to work 825 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 2: with someone, Jody is also really great to work with 826 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 2: in these kind of topics, you can always reach out 827 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 2: to me as well. I'll put all of our info 828 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 2: in the description of the podcast. Jody, thank you for 829 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 2: doing this with me. I really appreciate it. 830 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 3: Thank you, Kelly. It's great to talk to you you too. 831 00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 4: Thank you guys for listening. 832 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, 833 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet and a 834 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty 835 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.