WEBVTT - Chicago 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.720 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:07.880 Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runt Dog, 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.240 but enough about me. My guests today are three founding 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.560 members of one of the most successful American bands in history. 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.920 Their plaudits are practically endless and well deserved. They've sold 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.560 over forty million albums in the U s alone, not 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:26.239 twenty gold records, eight teen platinum, and eight multi platinum. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.840 They've had five consecutive number one albums and twenty top 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.280 ten singles on the Billboard Hot One early hits like 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.760 twenty five or six to four? Does anybody really Know 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.320 what time it is? And Beginnings Solve Them Somewhat simplistically 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.320 labeled the rock and roll band with horns, this really 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.320 under sells the event of arrangements and delicate melodies of 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.040 songs like Color My World or If You Leave Me Now. 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.280 They've had many different eras and many different members, but 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.680 these three guys have been there since the very start 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:57.560 in nineteen. Now they're helming a brand new album called 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:00.800 Born for This Moment, which is out now complete. His 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.160 can rest easy because this their thirty eighth album, also 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:08.000 bears the label Chicago thirty eight in their trademark Roman numerals. 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.560 I'm so thrilled the welcome Robert Lamb, James Panco, and 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:19.200 Lee Locknane of Chicago. I mean, it's congratulations. I mean 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.759 there's just so many new moments that I discover every 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:23.319 time I listened to it. Listened to it a number 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.560 of times. How did this project begin for you? Was 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:30.520 this a quarantine lockdown project? Pretty much? I mean I 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:35.959 think we had all gone home after after it was 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:43.119 our touring was interrupted. Um So speaking personally, I just 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:45.720 went home and after a couple of days, you know, 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:49.680 I got I was drawn to the piano in my 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:54.040 studio and I just started, you know, working on not 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.880 even working on music, just sort of rediscovering older pieces 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.240 of music that hadn't been made into songs yet. So 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.680 I just started a very long process process of doing that, 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.959 and it was I found it refreshing to not be 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:15.359 under a time constraint I had all day every day. 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:19.360 My wife was very indulgent if I if I, I 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:23.800 spent most of the day at piano, and as a result, uh, 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.760 some songs started to make themselves done, and I just 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.239 you know, just began, you know, on my my little 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:38.639 laptop studio kind of composing what essentially were demos. Now, 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:40.679 how much of this was done through file sharing? Because 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.359 those those horn parts sounds so tight. I mean, you 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.000 know one set of lungs that had to be together. 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.520 Was that? Was that done through file sharing? We we 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.919 made records in the studio as a band for fifty years, 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.880 and yeah, it was. It was a little bit different, 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.840 a little challenging, uh to a degree of to compose 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:08.840 um a little uh little snippets of pieces of songs 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:16.520 remotely and then um, you know, get them to Joe Thomas, 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:22.360 our producer who kind of uh so things together. We 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:29.880 did the Brass live at Lee Lot Main studio in Sedona, Arizona. 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.280 I was in the process of building the studio in 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:37.040 Sedona before the pandemic started, and then this was just 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:41.360 uh continuation of that when all of a sudden we 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.640 weren't working. I was at the studio all the time, 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:48.560 and we had by the time Jimmy had charts together 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:54.000 to be able to record. We had myself, Jimmy and 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.160 Ray Herman. We all gathered at my studio. We recorded 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.320 eleven tracks. So that's how it's got on the record. 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.960 I don't think that we intended to record an album 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:10.320 right away. I think everybody was sort of working individually 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:18.960 and it wasn't until uh, you know, maybe maybe six 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.360 months into the pandemic that the idea that hey, this 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:29.840 could be this could be an album, and uh, Joe 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:34.480 Thomas approached us and asked if we were interested. So 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.680 I called these guys and said, you know, are we 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:42.279 are we interested in doing an album? Or what you 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.920 mentioned the charts earlier. I mean, something that I've loved 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.520 about your arrangements throughout your career is just the interplay 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.000 between the voice and the brass. The brasses is a 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.000 full on co lead. It's like the singers doing a 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.320 duet with the brass. That has to be a challenge 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.479 to make those pieces fit together. Is there a key? 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.520 What's the process like of of arranging the brass parts 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:06.839 for this? When I, uh, when I approached this unique 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:16.040 brass situation, I just inherited the chair because I had 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:21.200 been arranging as I was in college and even before. 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:29.960 And it's a lead vocal. Basically, it's a main book 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:34.719 character in the song, and along with the lead vocal, 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:43.240 it completes the melodic journey from beginning to where the 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:49.960 lead vocal leaves off, the brass picks up, and where 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.640 the brass leaves off, it leads into the vocal and 0:05:54.800 --> 0:06:00.600 remains thematic to the vocal melody. So it's it's one 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:05.839 smooth process, you know, vocals, horns, vocals, ones. And then 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:11.000 basically when I when I arranged this Breath, I picked 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:15.080 up my trombone and I played a solo along with 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:19.800 the rough mixes with the vocals, and that solo became 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:26.680 an ensemble and voiced we're appropriate, and that underneath the vocals. 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:34.400 Two at substance, uh, I wrote pads to a largely 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:43.520 agree two strengthened the quartal based under the vocal. Wow, 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.560 that's so interesting. I mean, how elaborate and intricate it is. 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:48.640 I mean, there's so many great moments on this album, 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:50.560 and one that I keep going track two is for 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:52.520 the Love I mean, those strings that lead into the 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.320 horn solo. It's just it's so amazing. And Robert, I 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:57.320 know you've said for the Love of a standout for you. 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.640 What is it about that song that really resonates with yeah? 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:09.120 Uh uh. This song actually was born from a recording 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:14.320 of the acoustic guitars a friend of mine who actually 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:19.960 who guitarists who has played h H on Chicago albums, 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:27.120 and someone who's also from Chicago. Um uh sent me. 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.240 You know, we were I wanted. I just wanted to 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.040 write with people I hadn't really written with for a while. 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:39.119 And ah, he sent me. He sent me basically, he said, 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.000 you know, I haven't been i haven't been playing lately, 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.600 and I'm having a bit of a problem, but I'll 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.640 send you. I'll send you the last stuff that I 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.400 laid down just this as a as a start. So 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:58.520 I I took his recording and I I manipulated sections 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:03.720 of it and sort of you know, made meets H 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:11.160 an interesting grid on which I grew huh singing melody 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:16.360 and and as the as the melody and the section 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:21.920 sections began to emerge, Ah, I was hearing I was 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:30.240 hearing a song that was maybe maybe from the Dred 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.600 I was I was hearing I was here. I was 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:40.320 kind of feeling like the singer was talking or singing 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:46.120 with his friends, telling telling them about how much the 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:50.760 world had changed, and and the one thing that was 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:56.280 a constant was was the love. So uh, you know, 0:08:56.720 --> 0:09:00.800 it was sort of a brick by brick building of 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:09.520 a sum um. And as it happens, the first violent 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:16.680 piece that was put in to the song was played 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:20.520 by I'm blanking on the name, played by a young 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:27.360 virtuoso violinist who happens to live in Italy, and she 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.960 she played her solo and sent it to me and 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:35.559 it was like perfect and so so the whole thing 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:40.079 was coming together as sort of a non electronic, non 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:45.320 rock piece, just a beautiful love song, if you will, 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:53.120 with lyrics that talked about how the world was changing. 0:09:53.960 --> 0:10:00.560 And in the end all will have is That's an 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.520 incredible track. Really, one of my my favorites on the album. 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:07.720 That's my wife, there you go. That's as the highest 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.640 praise you need. She turned to me, she said, you 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:16.920 are that's I get highest praise. There's nothing else I 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.920 can say. That's all you need. Wow, I mean, good lord, 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:22.720 beautiful track. There's so many amazing songs on this album, 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.480 and I'm so fascinated by the many different ways that 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.480 people can have these flashes of creativity. I mean, you 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.120 mentioned other ways that you manipulated this wholy other song 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.280 to create this. I'm curious. I mean I think of 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.280 a track like make a Man out of Me, a 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.440 song that's so steeped in in paternal love for a child. 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.400 Do you have a feeling and go sit down and 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.840 sort of play it out of you? Or does the 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.199 does the tune come first, and does that give you 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.400 a certain feeling and then you kind of right to that. Well, 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.480 making that out of me is a love song to 0:10:52.559 --> 0:11:00.120 me my new one soon. And we're all fathers. You 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:06.120 might be a father yourself, are you? Are you a dad? Okay? Well, 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:12.800 I don't think that there's any more powerful bond than 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:17.720 apparent to their child. When when when I looked down 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:25.480 at my son in the crib, I was overtaken by 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:32.200 the love I had for this new human being, a 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:36.920 product of my wife and myself, and I looked down 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:44.480 and it's that idea just hit me between the eyes. 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:50.640 You know, this is a responsibility. It's my duty, is 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:58.400 your father, to give you the tools two have a 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.680 good life, to succeed to know the meaning of life. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:12.199 And it inspired the words um. You know, as songwriters 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:17.640 we have we have the joy of experiencing these intimate 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:26.040 moments of expressing ourselves and our feelings about various things 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:32.920 that affect us as people. And I was overtaken at 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:39.680 that point in this instance, with this discovery of how 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:46.400 deeply I love this little person more than just about 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.199 any other writing experience I had had. And then they 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:56.599 have the blessing of being able to UH compose a 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:01.360 song about that feeling, and then all of a sudden 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:12.200 it goes on a record and eventually becomes a story 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:19.480 shared by lots of lots of people. And I would 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:25.439 venture to say that it's a commonality of it. Anybody 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:30.000 who's had a child will immediately relate to that feeling. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.520 In fact, when we were in the studio listening back 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:42.280 to UH songs with UM the record Company, one of 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:48.560 the UM, one of the higher ups with the record 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:54.320 company seated next to me, leaned over and saying, Jimmy, 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.400 you know that song resonates with me unbelievably because I 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:03.199 have a son, and when I listened to this song, 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:10.800 I was standing over his crib just like you, and 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:16.160 I immediately understood the power of what you were feeling. 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:22.520 So hopefully a lot of people will experience that. I mean, 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.440 there are so many of your songs that have that. 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:26.200 I mean, I was I'm sure you heard us all 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:27.920 the time. I was a wedding DJ for a number 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.480 of years, and the recessional that we would play so 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.800 often at so many of these ceremonies and receptions was Beginnings. 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.280 I mean, it's just something that just is so powerful, 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:37.960 and you'd see you look out there and you'd see 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.720 people crying when that song was was on because it 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.160 was such a beautiful. You know, it's my favorite song. 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.960 I tell Robert every night on stage and he looks 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:52.200 at me like, Okay, I've heard enough of that, I know, 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.600 and I don't blame me. I love that you included 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:58.720 that as a as a little nod in um in 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:00.520 our New York time. I thought was just such a 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.520 cool little call back. What let you do include that? 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:08.000 That was a producer call you know, Uh, producers can 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.240 be can be creative in that way. You know. They here, 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.000 you know, they hear a song that is fairly complete, 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.280 and the track may be done, and everything might be done, 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:25.080 but a good producer will well, uh, well, sometimes add 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.080 a color of flavor, maybe even a few words here 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:34.600 and there two to make to make a particular song 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:49.600 stand out. It's definitely not a record that's that's steeped 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.720 in nostalgia, but there were a few of these touching 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.120 little moments, like the opening of that This is Goodbye 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.680 to really hit me. Just a bunch of crazy kids, 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:58.520 look at all the things we did wake up playing 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.840 in the high school band. Make it to the Promised Land. 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:02.760 I mean to me as a fan, it's hard not 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.160 to read that as as autobiographical in some way. Well, 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:12.040 you know this record, you know, as a listener, not 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.200 as a composer or a member of the bandit as 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:20.720 a listener. Uh. I found, uh, this collection of songs 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:28.720 to be Um really pretty fascinating because you know, we 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:34.280 delve into all kinds of stuff. Okay, it's not just 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:42.320 love songs or or pointless rock and roll. It's it's 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:51.080 very cerebral, but yet it has the pull of great musicality, 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:57.640 and the grooves go from A to Z. I mean, 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:03.240 this is clad Seek Chicago with a new face. You know, 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:08.000 I can try of m express it in terms of 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.680 you know, I I played some of the rough mixes 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:16.160 for my kids, you know, my younger listeners, and they 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:21.919 were wow. You know you guys, you guys have have 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:26.200 a freshness, yeah, that you haven't had in a while. 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:33.440 And maybe it was the desperation of being completely idle 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.399 during the pandemic. That made us stretch a little further, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.920 you know, or made us aware of more things that 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.880 we were always too busy to realize. And I think 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:52.639 that might have inspired, uh, the courage two push the 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:57.160 envelope and go a little further, you know. Maybe. Well 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.560 when you asked about the the Right of Goodbye, which 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.200 by the way, is the first single coming out off 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:10.560 the album, Uh, it was written by our producer, and 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:15.840 I think he was probably incorporating when he started as 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.200 a band, and I think he had a co writer 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:21.160 and they were both doing a similar thing where they 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.320 back to their roots, back to when they started and 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.800 went into high school and started further in their career. 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.080 And it could be construed as it being only about us, 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:37.160 but I think it's about any band that gets together. 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.359 Let's be friends, let's you know, how far can we 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:45.440 go with this and uh see what happens? You mentioned. 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.640 The record was produced by Joe Thomas, who has worked 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.200 with some of my all time favorite artists, mean, Brian Wilson, 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.000 Stevie Nicks, Tom Petty and now you what was it 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:54.439 like working with him? When all did he did he 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.200 bring to the table? It seems like he was very 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.880 actively involved. The biggest problem is we didn't see each other. 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:04.479 Oh yeah, so we were very rarely in the in 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:09.520 the same room together. We were trying to put it, 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.000 get it to a point where everybody would be able 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.320 to come to my studio and we'd be able to 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.399 do background vocals, which we did a little bit of. 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.040 We did most of the brass, all of the brass 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.800 at my studio, but getting everybody in the room together 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:30.040 was a difficult process during the pandemic. You know, I 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:35.560 had a lot of conversations with him on the phone. Um, 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.720 and I agree with you. You know, I had never 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.800 laid eyes on the guide. Uh. We know we had 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:46.760 done some some video projects at one of the studios 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:56.200 in Chicago that that is a venue for for videos. Um, 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.880 but I had I didn't have any sense of him 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.720 as a as a producer or as a writer or 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:08.000 he actually plays plays a really good keyboards. So so 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.200 all of that was really interesting. I have to say, 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.480 I have to have to say that in the beginning. 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:18.680 Uh once once we had sort of commuted to let's 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.560 see if we can you know, make this an album. 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:29.120 Um uh, I I think uh, not being a tech guy, 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.000 completely opposite from Lee. I'm not a tech guy whatsoever. 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:37.320 I thought, well, everybody has a laptop and we all 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.280 can do our our demos on the laptop. Will send 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.400 him to Joe, and Joe will just you know, make 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:47.879 a do his magic and magically, uh make a finished record. 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.439 Well he kind of thought. He kind of thought the 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.520 same thing at first, but then as he was getting uh, 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.200 as he was getting a file files said to him, Uh, 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.199 he discovered everybody's working on a different platform. So it 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:11.320 was like, un, I'll never do that again. But uh, 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.080 and being the tech guy, I was trying to talk 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.800 everyone out of doing it and sending you know, a 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.919 certain file type so we can have consistency going on. 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.480 It was a difficult process. Yeah, it was really it 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.919 was really you know, it was really a long, longer 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:33.640 process and it really needed to be um. But having 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.000 said that, he was very patient. He was he was 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:42.480 very open. I found to be very open two ideas 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.480 and you know, he he put his nose to the 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.119 grindstone and got this stuff done. Yeah. It was no 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.760 easy test, I'm sure for for him because you know, 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:59.359 he received, yeah, he received files from writers and he 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:07.320 would plug in Chicago, Uh, performances into the personal demos. 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:13.879 You know, if I submitted a song all of a sudden, Uh, 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:18.399 you know, a demo's a demo vocal. Uh, you know, 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.639 we get a studio sausage or saying or that we 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.240 knew to say, a lead vocal, and then we do 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:29.880 some backgrounds and I do a trombone kind of a 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:34.000 thing where the horns section would be. And then it 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:37.960 was not only was Joe getting files from from band 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:43.280 members and then plugging in um Chicago players band members 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:49.440 to do to redo the performance. But yeah, he would 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:56.760 then take that upgraded track with you know, Wally Rays 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:00.439 playing the drums instead of a you know, a a 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.800 drum machine or whatever. We have you know, Wally playing 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:08.639 real drugs. We have a real bass player, we have 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:13.040 you know, real musicians. And then he'd take that file 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:16.880 and send it to me, and then I would arrange 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:21.479 the brass to that track which had the real music 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:25.680 on it. So uh, I could create a horn arrangement, 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.679 because I cannot create a horn of horn arrangement to 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:33.359 an unfinished demo because there's uh, there's it's got to 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:37.400 be the real thing. I can only arrange to what 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:43.400 the final representation of the song will be. So he 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:47.280 was receiving files, he was putting musicians on those files. 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.040 He does send the file to me, I would put 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:55.200 real brass on paper. We take that brass to Arizona 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:59.200 to Lee's we record that real brass. It would then 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:03.040 go back to Joe and Joe would put background love 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:07.160 of those on the track again where the real horns were. 0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:12.880 So it became a sceneless result. So it was back 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:15.679 and forth and back and forth. I was doing vocals 0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:20.960 in California. I didn't the track for my song on 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:24.840 stage with the with the live band if This Isn't Love? 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:29.000 And I think I did a couple of songs like that, 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:31.080 and if This Isn't Love was the one that made 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:34.080 it on the album. But I think that was one 0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:38.720 of the few songs on this record that was done 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:42.159 by our band and band on stage as a band. Wow. 0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:45.159 And then we recorded the Breast at the studio in 0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:49.919 Sedona and and by the way, well during the pandemic, 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:55.080 I had enough time two build the studio. My UH 0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:59.880 engineer Tim Jessop and I were working on a Cardigi 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:04.240 all projects which we we did six days in nineteen 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:11.480 seventy one and uh we were uh mixing and mastering 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:14.639 all six all eight shows that we did within that 0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:18.960 six states. So we were immersed in the in uh 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:23.040 deep in a project while this record was going on. 0:25:23.520 --> 0:25:26.119 So um, there was a lot going on in the 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:44.959 pandemic amazing productive time. Yes, I loved that Carnegie Hall 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:46.560 box set when it came out last year. And one 0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:47.919 one of the things that I really enjoyed about it 0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:49.919 was I feel like there were so many moments of 0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:52.119 improv in there, which is a side. I feel like, 0:25:52.320 --> 0:25:54.399 we don't see a lot from you so often. So 0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:56.920 I really enjoyed it so much. I really love there 0:25:56.960 --> 0:25:59.200 was a lot from night to night we we just said, 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:02.959 we were uh like this, like good bye, that's crazy 0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:07.200 kids just coming up and playing uh, you know, from 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:10.880 the hip and just doing what what came. We had 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:16.200 the the the songs put together, but we played them loosely, 0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:24.840 you know. Frankly. I revisited that Cardegie all uh Little 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:31.159 Lee sent us uh the records. I listened, you know. 0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:34.560 Of course it was uh you know, it improved, I 0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:41.800 mean amazingly so at I started realizing, holy crap, how 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:43.679 did we do that? We I mean, we were a 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:47.800 bunch of kids, and I listened to some of those performances, 0:26:47.840 --> 0:26:52.480 and you know, we had no fear. We had no fear. Uh. 0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:56.399 And Terry, you know, I mean his his genius and 0:26:56.480 --> 0:27:02.480 his his strength within the band. Yeah, I think it 0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:08.399 actually motivated me to say, screw it, man, I'm not 0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:12.280 gonna worry about rules, you know, with this album, you know, 0:27:12.400 --> 0:27:18.119 and I started just taking chances because I listen to Candy, 0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:22.000 I'm all right, man, if we could, if we could 0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:28.359 accomplish that when we didn't know anything, can we accomplished 0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:30.639 when we do know all that? But we had the 0:27:30.680 --> 0:27:33.720 same experience when we a couple of years ago we 0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:39.639 did Chicago to live on on our tour, and in 0:27:39.760 --> 0:27:45.520 rehearsing to play that, played that repertoire. It was like 0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:48.800 we did a lot of that, looking at each other saying, 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:53.880 what the hell will we think we're writing these? And 0:27:53.960 --> 0:27:59.000 you know, obviously not only the Chicago two situation, but 0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:04.240 you know, the Carnegie Hall. Uh, you know, that was 0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:07.520 still very early in our career. I mean, I think 0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:13.160 probably the most the most recent song might have been 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:20.400 Savory in the Park. That was this was only three albums, 0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:23.879 so you know it was. It was a different world, 0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:30.879 certainly a different climate in in rock music. It was 0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:34.160 funny before speaking to you, I was rewatching that amazing 0:28:34.240 --> 0:28:37.040 documentary now more than ever. And there's a great moment 0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:38.720 when you were talking about the start of your career 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:41.880 when you played an original song at a club and 0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:45.560 you were fired for not playing the top forty, which 0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:47.360 is I mean, it's just insane to me to think 0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:50.000 of a time like that. What what what was that 0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:51.680 like back then for you? What compelled you to make 0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:55.040 the jump from from playing these songs to playing originals. 0:28:55.240 --> 0:28:59.320 We actually played a Frank Zappa song of uh, how 0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:04.880 could I be walls? Rock and roll walls? And that's 0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:11.680 where we're go from there quote a Zappa cover. The 0:29:11.760 --> 0:29:16.600 music business changed, it changed, it changed. By the end 0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:20.000 of the seventies, it was really all about, you know, 0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:22.600 if you had to hit with one song, the record 0:29:22.600 --> 0:29:27.320 company wanted another song just like it, only different if possible. 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:35.560 And and I just think that the uh, the thinking, 0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:40.120 the thinking about trying to write a hit song really 0:29:40.200 --> 0:29:45.520 kind of really kind of defeated lots of artists as 0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:52.080 as the music industry demanded that that procedure. Here was 0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:55.440 a strange question that I'm just thinking now and I'm 0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:57.160 trying to make phrase it right. I feel like there's 0:29:57.160 --> 0:29:59.800