WEBVTT - #526 Ben Bowlin with Sonny Bharadia 

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<v Speaker 1>This episode of Wrongful Conviction includes discussion of sexual assault

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<v Speaker 1>and suicide. Please listen with caution and care. On November eighteenth,

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and one, a Georgia woman found a burglar

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<v Speaker 1>in her home who blindfolded and tied her down. He

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<v Speaker 1>bizarrely claimed to be an Islamic militant before completing the

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<v Speaker 1>burglary and a sexual assault. The victim described her attacker

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<v Speaker 1>as black, and she eventually chose a man named Sterling

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<v Speaker 1>Flint from a photo lineup. Separately, a man named Sonny

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<v Speaker 1>Baradia reported Sterling Flint for stealing a Chevy Tahoe and

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<v Speaker 1>a motorcycle, and while investigating that, the police found the

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<v Speaker 1>sexual assault victim's property in Sterling's house. But Sterling's girlfriend

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<v Speaker 1>was a former sheriff's deputy and they both said that

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<v Speaker 1>Sonny Baradia had asked him to hold the stolen items.

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<v Speaker 1>Even though Sonny wasn't black, the police chose to believe

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<v Speaker 1>that he was an Islamic militant. This is wrongful conviction.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this

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<v Speaker 1>and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early

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<v Speaker 1>and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus

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<v Speaker 1>on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction this story today.

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<v Speaker 1>First of all, it's going to make you want to

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<v Speaker 1>jump through your headset whatever you're listening to this on,

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<v Speaker 1>and strangle somebody, because well, I've been wanting to do

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<v Speaker 1>something like that ever since I first heard about it

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<v Speaker 1>years ago, and I'm so glad that Suddy Barati is

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<v Speaker 1>here with us today to tell it. But before I

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<v Speaker 1>introduced Studdy, I want to introduce my co host, Ben Bolan.

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<v Speaker 1>Many of you will know, he's one of my favorite

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<v Speaker 1>podcasters and probably one of yours as well, and we're

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<v Speaker 1>so thrilled to have him on this season of Rawful Conviction.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 3>This is and anger that we all share, like you

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<v Speaker 3>were saying, wanting to jump through the headset. We're going

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<v Speaker 3>to talk about some gross miscarriages of justice, but I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know, Jason, what better way to begin than to

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<v Speaker 3>speak with the man.

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<v Speaker 2>Himself, Sonny, Thanks so much for being here, Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>And to help tell this story. We're also joined by

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<v Speaker 1>Sonny's pro bono attorney, Olivia Vigiletti.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome, Thank you so much, and this story begins in

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<v Speaker 3>the metro Atlanta area.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, suburbs. I grow up of Stone Mountain. I mean

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<v Speaker 4>growing up out a pretty good childhood. I mean I

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<v Speaker 4>had parents now're married, you know, red with things like holidays,

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<v Speaker 4>go camping, Daisy World, did all that growing up. I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>play sports, eleague, baseball, stuff like that, hanging out my

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<v Speaker 4>friends and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that was it.

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<v Speaker 1>And by the time this happened in September two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and one, Sonny was in his mid twenties.

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<v Speaker 4>The fall this happened, I was working. I was going

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<v Speaker 4>to school and go to gym Rediley. I was doing

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<v Speaker 4>that sheet metal work. I mean does a good job

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<v Speaker 4>because like at that time probably like seventy five dollars

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<v Speaker 4>now doing it. And he gave me opportunities to move

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<v Speaker 4>up in a job. And so for me at the

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<v Speaker 4>time that was good and was something stable.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeahs an hour, it was good money. Yes, this is

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<v Speaker 1>how you were able to afford a tahoe and some

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<v Speaker 1>other nice things. Right, So you're doing all right.

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<v Speaker 3>And you also had a side interest.

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<v Speaker 2>In cars vehicles.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, yes, my little side thing was I like

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<v Speaker 4>to buy cars and fix the myself.

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<v Speaker 1>And Sunny was very generous with his talents, especially with

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<v Speaker 1>his close friends Ray Sewan and Keisha Pitts. While it

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<v Speaker 1>seems some acquaintances took advantage of Sonny's generosity, one of

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<v Speaker 1>them was a guy named Sterling Flint. But before Sterling

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<v Speaker 1>enters the story, a different friend who stayed in Beuford,

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<v Speaker 1>South Carolina, had asked to borrow Sonny's shabby tahoe.

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<v Speaker 4>I let a friend of mine use my car because

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<v Speaker 4>his car was in the shop. I'm like sure, just

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<v Speaker 4>like two three days a camp, and it ended up

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<v Speaker 4>being a breach of trust. Like when Friday came, it's

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<v Speaker 4>like a cell phone was cut off so he won't respond.

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<v Speaker 4>And I knew it was his mother's house in South Carolina,

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<v Speaker 4>so I got all his ex wife, got his mother's address,

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<v Speaker 4>and I called to Cab County Police explain what happened

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<v Speaker 4>to my vehicle. And I remember clearly being a Saturday,

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<v Speaker 4>November seventeenth, two thousand and one, I met a friend

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<v Speaker 4>of mine named Rayshawn's house exactly from Brooklyn, and so

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<v Speaker 4>I just to go check on his wife when he's

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<v Speaker 4>out of town in New York working and take his

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<v Speaker 4>wife's kids.

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<v Speaker 3>Out that night Sunny, his girlfriend Alitia Colbert and Rayshawn's wife, Kesha.

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<v Speaker 3>They all went out together with their kids for the

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<v Speaker 3>opening weekend of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, which

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<v Speaker 3>they watched to drive it now. They got home very

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<v Speaker 3>late around midnight.

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<v Speaker 4>So the next day being Sunday, which was a day

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<v Speaker 4>a crime. November eighteenth, two thousand and one. I'm at

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<v Speaker 4>my girlfriend's house. About ten o'clock, my cell phone rings

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<v Speaker 4>and it's a detective from Beauford County, South Carolina, and

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<v Speaker 4>he told me he has my vehicle in his impound

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<v Speaker 4>and I can pick it up Monday through Friday. So

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<v Speaker 4>that day I dropped my girlfriend's daughter to Mova's house.

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<v Speaker 4>I took my girlfriend, took her to Wendy's. I went

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<v Speaker 4>through the drive through day on cameras. I got her

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<v Speaker 4>something to and I dropped across street to a job

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<v Speaker 4>and then a comma from ray Sean, and I asked

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<v Speaker 4>him I'll pick up a socket set from his house

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<v Speaker 4>because I was working on his car out bought from

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<v Speaker 4>auction a while back. So I get the soaka set

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<v Speaker 4>a little left, like twelve o'clock and I go to

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<v Speaker 4>a friend of mine's house. I had a car park

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<v Speaker 4>there which I was working on and around four thirty

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<v Speaker 4>five o'clock I stopped by Ray Shawn's dropped a soakka

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<v Speaker 4>set off.

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<v Speaker 1>So Sonny's whereabouts were accounted for in the Metro Atlanta area,

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<v Speaker 1>over two hundred and fifty miles away from the scene

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<v Speaker 1>of the crime, which was in a Savannah suburb called Thunderbolt, Georgia. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>remember this happened not even ten weeks after nine to eleven,

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<v Speaker 1>when average Americans were just learning the names of militant

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<v Speaker 1>groups like Al Qaeda, and this fear of terrorist cells

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<v Speaker 1>operating in the US was at a fever pitch. So

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<v Speaker 1>with that backdrop, it's believed that an acquaintance of Sonny's

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<v Speaker 1>named Sterling Flint, committed a burglary in the early afternoon

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<v Speaker 1>of November eighteenth, two thousand and one.

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<v Speaker 5>Basically, this was a daytime burglary gone wrong. Sterling Flint

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<v Speaker 5>breaks into the house and he's stealing electronics and the

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<v Speaker 5>victim comes home, so he very quickly blindfolds her and

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<v Speaker 5>he tells her this very scary story about how he's

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<v Speaker 5>part of al Qaeda and he was sent here for her,

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<v Speaker 5>and she says in her original police statement that he

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<v Speaker 5>was pretending to be on the phone with someone else

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<v Speaker 5>who's maybe like instructing him what to do next, but

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<v Speaker 5>she knew that there was no one actually on the phone.

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<v Speaker 5>She could hear the dial tone, and he tells her

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<v Speaker 5>he needs to commit what he calls a fake rape

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<v Speaker 5>to make this other person happy, so that she's scared quiet,

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<v Speaker 5>and he's holding her at knife point and does some

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<v Speaker 5>assault of things to her.

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<v Speaker 2>Be aware.

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<v Speaker 3>The following language is graphic and maybe disturbing. This is

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<v Speaker 3>from the victim's statement. The victim says, this man tied

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<v Speaker 3>her up to the bed, performed oral sex on her, masturbated, ejaculated,

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<v Speaker 3>cleaned up after himself had then left with a number

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<v Speaker 3>of electronic items and a suitcase. When the victim freed

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<v Speaker 3>herself and removed the blindfold, she noticed it was two forty.

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<v Speaker 5>Pm, fortunately for some Before she gets blindfolded, she sees

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<v Speaker 5>he's wearing blue and white bat and gloves, and she

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<v Speaker 5>tells the police that but the GBI the Georgia labs

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<v Speaker 5>at the time were only testing fluids. The labs weren't

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<v Speaker 5>doing touch DNA testing, so they scan all the evidence

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<v Speaker 5>that they have. They don't find any fluids. They say

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<v Speaker 5>there's nothing to test, and that's really important.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to hold onto that detail for later, But

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<v Speaker 1>at that time all they had to go on was

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<v Speaker 1>her description. Now, remember the attacker was partially masked, she

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<v Speaker 1>had only seen his eyes shortly before she was blindfolded,

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<v Speaker 1>and the victim was white, which made this a cross

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<v Speaker 1>racial identification situation, whether with the actual attacker as described

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<v Speaker 1>by the victim or with Sonny.

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<v Speaker 4>The victim's description of the guy was a black mail

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<v Speaker 4>bushy bras bushy musta's darskin ruskin face five six, one fifty.

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<v Speaker 4>I was like one eighty five. I just go to

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<v Speaker 4>gym like four days a week at a time. So

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<v Speaker 4>you're not saying one hundred fifty pounds. You're not said

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<v Speaker 4>I was a black mail.

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<v Speaker 3>After all, Sonny's ethnicity is Indian, which I guess if

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<v Speaker 3>you're a racist and you're all suit not good at

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<v Speaker 3>being racist, then that makes Sunny a member of al

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<v Speaker 3>Qaeda somehow. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. At this point,

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<v Speaker 3>they had made a composite sketch of a black man. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 3>Sunny was headed just a short distance north of Savannah, Georgia,

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<v Speaker 3>to Beauford County, South Carolina to get his car back. However,

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<v Speaker 3>the only friend he could scramble to come with him

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<v Speaker 3>to drive one of the vehicles back home she had

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<v Speaker 3>a problem with her license.

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<v Speaker 4>We finally get a Buford like five pm on November nineteenth,

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<v Speaker 4>and I picked my vehicle up and just randomly startling.

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<v Speaker 4>Flint called me at that time, and I've only seen

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<v Speaker 4>this coup once or twice. So he's like, where am

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<v Speaker 4>I at? I said him in Bufford and he's like,

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<v Speaker 4>were you like thirty minutes from me. It's like light

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<v Speaker 4>bulb goes off in a head. I was like, hey, man,

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<v Speaker 4>is any way you go on Atlanta soon? Because I

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<v Speaker 4>got a scirrel me took me to get my car,

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<v Speaker 4>but she has some type of issue of license.

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<v Speaker 2>I think she had a DUI or something.

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<v Speaker 4>So I didn't want to getting pulled over going back

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<v Speaker 4>to Atlanta driving behind me, you know, So I asked

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<v Speaker 4>me to drive my vehicle back and he's like sure.

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<v Speaker 4>So we met him and his girlfriend at a restaurant.

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<v Speaker 4>We ate dinner, and he left on his motorcycle and

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<v Speaker 4>I follow his girlfriend to his house. So when we

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<v Speaker 4>get to his house, she introduced me her roommate with

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<v Speaker 4>he was a Chatham County share steputy, and she tells

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<v Speaker 4>me she used to be a Chatham County shaf's deputy.

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<v Speaker 1>Now it appears that Sterling's girlfriend, Ashley Dold's affiliation to

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<v Speaker 1>law enforcement may have played a role in this case.

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<v Speaker 1>But at this point in the story, Sterling Flint parked

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<v Speaker 1>his motorcycle at home. He got into Chabby Tahoe and

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<v Speaker 1>was supposed to follow Sonny back to his friend's house

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<v Speaker 1>at Atlanta.

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<v Speaker 4>When we entered one of the interstates in Atlanta, my

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<v Speaker 4>vehicle disappeared. I don't see him on the highway no more.

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<v Speaker 4>But finally when I get to my friend's house, I'll

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<v Speaker 4>keep calling. His phone is not answering. Probably about three

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<v Speaker 4>o'clock in the morning, he calls. He says that he

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<v Speaker 4>stopped for gas and he ran into a friend of

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<v Speaker 4>his aid and seen in some yours and he'll beat in.

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<v Speaker 2>A few So she left the doornlock.

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<v Speaker 4>So I don't wake up, probably about seven o'clock, and

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<v Speaker 4>it's like, you know, you have that feeling like you

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<v Speaker 4>just know something's not right.

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<v Speaker 2>And so by eleven o'clock in the morning, he calls.

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<v Speaker 4>He says he stopped at his mom's house and he'll

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<v Speaker 4>beat in a few and I clearly looked at a.

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<v Speaker 2>Phone number on the call ide I wrote the number down. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>well I'm waiting. I'm waiting. He never comes.

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<v Speaker 4>So going into the next morning, I caught his mother's

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<v Speaker 4>house and I'm like asking if he's there, and she's

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<v Speaker 4>like no, and I said, my name's Sonny. I said,

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<v Speaker 4>your son has my vehicle. Can you ask him bring

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<v Speaker 4>it back by twelve o'clock noon. If he doesn't, I'm

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<v Speaker 4>report of stolen. So right before noon, I hear my

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<v Speaker 4>friend on the phone arguing with somebody and yelling and stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>So I asked what's going on. She's like, that's Sterling

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<v Speaker 4>and she's saying his threatening to kill her. So I

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<v Speaker 4>grabbed the phone. He said, it's going to kill my

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<v Speaker 4>family because he's got my home address, because I've got

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<v Speaker 4>mail in my car and is in kill mcgarthin and

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<v Speaker 4>kill me.

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<v Speaker 2>So I called a police.

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<v Speaker 3>Suddy made a police report that Sterling Flint had stolen

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<v Speaker 3>his Chevy Tahoe and made terroristic threats. Now, at some point,

0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.960
<v Speaker 3>the burglary and sexual assault victim viewed a photo lineup

0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:48.640
<v Speaker 3>and identified Sterling Flint as her attacker. So now Sterling

0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.880
<v Speaker 3>is wanted by Thunderbolt PD in Chatham County for terroristic

0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:56.400
<v Speaker 3>threats into Cab County, as well as in Clayton County

0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.040
<v Speaker 3>where he first made off with the Chevy Tahoe.

0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.840
<v Speaker 4>So this whole time, I'm calling Sterring. Finally answers, he says,

0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.600
<v Speaker 4>gonna run my truck off a cliff, gonna kill my family.

0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.160
<v Speaker 4>And I said, man, I work for everything I have,

0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.400
<v Speaker 4>and you got a motorcycle, it's like if that bike

0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.200
<v Speaker 4>is hot, and you mentioned the stolen And a couple

0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.439
<v Speaker 4>of days later there was a messed with my parents'

0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.800
<v Speaker 4>voicemail for me to call this Detective Underwood in Cobb

0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.280
<v Speaker 4>County and he asked for Sterling Flint and I'm like, yes,

0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:24.200
<v Speaker 4>that's the guy still my vehicles. And he's like, the

0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.360
<v Speaker 4>reason I came looking for your vehicles involved in a

0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.400
<v Speaker 4>burger in Cobb County and the residents came home, Sterling

0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.960
<v Speaker 4>Flint was in the house. He assaulted the guy fled

0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.000
<v Speaker 4>in a tahoe, which was my vehicle, so to report

0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.080
<v Speaker 4>the tag number. When he ran the tag, it showed

0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:37.680
<v Speaker 4>up in my name, but it also showed up it

0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:39.840
<v Speaker 4>was stolen. A week prior and goes, well, your vehicle

0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.160
<v Speaker 4>was in a high speed chase with Atlanta Pede last night.

0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.679
<v Speaker 4>Black Mail jumped out of the vehicle, fled on foot,

0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.160
<v Speaker 4>and my vehicle went down a hill hit the telephone pole.

0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.720
<v Speaker 4>He's like, they're looking for him now, so he asked

0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.400
<v Speaker 4>me to get in touch with him, and I'm like, well,

0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:53.120
<v Speaker 4>is this girlfriend's phone number if that'll help.

0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.600
<v Speaker 1>So Detective Underwood called Chatham County shared Ashley Dole's phone number,

0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.160
<v Speaker 1>but they already knew her and they went looking for

0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:01.400
<v Speaker 1>the stolen motorcycle.

0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.520
<v Speaker 5>When the police show up to Sterling Flint's house, the

0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.520
<v Speaker 5>victims stolen items are inside of his house and we

0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:09.959
<v Speaker 5>know that they're her items because he stole some luggage

0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:11.440
<v Speaker 5>and I had her name on it, so we know

0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.560
<v Speaker 5>they're her items. And the batting gloves she describes to

0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:16.720
<v Speaker 5>the police are with the stolen items.

0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.480
<v Speaker 4>When he found his stuff at her house, she called

0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.040
<v Speaker 4>him on the phone and he tells her say, I

0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:22.920
<v Speaker 4>brought the stuff there.

0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:27.760
<v Speaker 5>Sterling Flint says, I am holding these items for Sonny Bradia.

0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.560
<v Speaker 4>I'merstaying his girlfriend was ex Chaman County. Shaf Stepani roommates

0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.680
<v Speaker 4>a Chatham County. Shaf Steppye telling a Thunderbolt police officer,

0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.240
<v Speaker 4>which is a Chatham County that I brought this stuff there.

0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 4>Now the whole storyline changed from a blackmail to.

0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.280
<v Speaker 5>Me, it's kind of brilliant, right because he's like, Hey,

0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.320
<v Speaker 5>let me get out of this crap that I did,

0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.800
<v Speaker 5>and let me implicate this guy that's giving me trouble

0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.360
<v Speaker 5>for stealing his car. The police should have said, well,

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.560
<v Speaker 5>that's absurd. That doesn't make sense. Sonny is the one

0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.600
<v Speaker 5>who sent us over here. Why would Sonny tell the police, hey,

0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.920
<v Speaker 5>go check out this guy when he's holding stolen items

0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:58.439
<v Speaker 5>for Sunny. It doesn't make any sense.

0:12:58.720 --> 0:12:59.000
<v Speaker 3>Lost.

0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.720
<v Speaker 1>The victim had already identified sterling Flint from a photo array,

0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.000
<v Speaker 1>so this case literally came with instructions.

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.320
<v Speaker 5>But when we're thinking about how to secure a conviction,

0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.439
<v Speaker 5>they only had the victims who was blindfolded for most

0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.240
<v Speaker 5>of it. They only had her identification. Well, if Sterling

0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.000
<v Speaker 5>Flint is willing to testify against Sonny, then now they

0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.480
<v Speaker 5>have two witnesses that would speak against Sonny, where there's

0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 5>only maybe one witness that would speak against Sterling Flint.

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.680
<v Speaker 3>But then the lead detective on the burglary and sexual

0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:30.640
<v Speaker 3>assault and thunderbolt. Detective Henry Trey Connors brought the victim

0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.160
<v Speaker 3>in to view a second photo lineup. This time Sterling

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:35.800
<v Speaker 3>Flint wasn't even in it.

0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 4>Every photo on a lineup was blurred and they will blackmails.

0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.640
<v Speaker 4>One guy had one eye and I was the only

0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.720
<v Speaker 4>clear photo on a lineup. She has circled photo number four,

0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.640
<v Speaker 4>which was me. Another lineup she circled Sterling Flint and

0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.040
<v Speaker 4>somebody else and so she identified three different people, but

0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:52.400
<v Speaker 4>one person did crime.

0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 5>Which is a traumatized person who didn't get a good

0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:58.160
<v Speaker 5>look at the perpetrator. We're talking about crossracial identification. There's

0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.600
<v Speaker 5>a lot of research that showed is that all humans

0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.960
<v Speaker 5>of all races are worse at identifying strangers of other

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.840
<v Speaker 5>races than they are strangers of their own race.

0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.840
<v Speaker 1>I think it one step further, Olivia, which is that

0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:15.600
<v Speaker 1>multiple studies have shown that, particularly in instances where someone

0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.240
<v Speaker 1>has either been a victim or a witness to a

0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 1>violent crime, cross racial identification has been proven to be

0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 1>less accurate than guessing, which means, as crazy as it sounds,

0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.720
<v Speaker 1>a person who wasn't even there, just by virtue of guessing,

0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.800
<v Speaker 1>would have a better chance of identifying the actual perpetrator

0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:33.320
<v Speaker 1>than somebody who was.

0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.280
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's understandable that she made that mistake, it's not

0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 5>understandable that the police rolled with it.

0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.360
<v Speaker 4>So the next day, which was Friday, November thirty, if

0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 4>I got arrest in this served me a warrant from bravery,

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.920
<v Speaker 4>sexual assault actively to sodom and kidnapping. I'm laughing, thinking

0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.480
<v Speaker 4>as candid camera, like this some kind of sordid joke,

0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.200
<v Speaker 4>you know, But when they pulled the guns out on

0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.000
<v Speaker 4>knew this was serious and sex goes, you know why

0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:00.200
<v Speaker 4>I arrested you, and I'm like why he goes Ashley.

0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Which is Sterling Flint's girlfriend.

0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 4>Next chers deputy, I arrest you because of what she said,

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.600
<v Speaker 4>not because of what the victim said. I didn't know

0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:23.000
<v Speaker 4>what to think. They placed me under the wrist. He

0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.360
<v Speaker 4>said a crime happened in Thunderbolt. I've never heard this

0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:29.040
<v Speaker 4>time in my life. Had these boots on one and

0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.480
<v Speaker 4>as like it's going to be a long time.

0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Before season boots agin. I never forget that.

0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 3>Sunny couldn't bond out and spent about a year and

0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.760
<v Speaker 3>a half in pre trialed attention while Sterling Flint, the

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.040
<v Speaker 3>man whose whereabouts were unknown during the crime, The man

0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.760
<v Speaker 3>who was fending off several other burglary charges as well

0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:54.560
<v Speaker 3>as a charge for Sonny stolen vehicle and a motorcycle.

0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 3>The guy who was originally identified by the victim and

0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.040
<v Speaker 3>had her belongings. He was able to shift the blame

0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.520
<v Speaker 3>onto Sonny, and he appeared to have everyone's help in

0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:07.800
<v Speaker 3>doing so.

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.480
<v Speaker 5>Sterling Flint took a plea to receiving stolen property right

0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.960
<v Speaker 5>because that's his story that he received these things from Sonny.

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.240
<v Speaker 5>As far as I know, that's the deal he got

0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.400
<v Speaker 5>to testify against Sonny. Of course, there's these other separate

0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.240
<v Speaker 5>crimes in a separate county, and so he was working

0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.880
<v Speaker 5>on that. He is, actually, if you can believe it,

0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.960
<v Speaker 5>a jailhouse informant in another Georgia Innocence Project case where

0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.920
<v Speaker 5>he cut a deal to completely fabricate a story against

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:33.760
<v Speaker 5>another man.

0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.080
<v Speaker 1>And that man's name is Eric Hurd. Now, over twenty

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.640
<v Speaker 1>percent of the first two hundred and fifty DNA exonerations

0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 1>in history involved the use of jail house informants, which

0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:47.280
<v Speaker 1>isn't hard to believe considering how much these jailhouse snitches

0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.960
<v Speaker 1>or informants have to gain from there, and said device testimony.

0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.840
<v Speaker 1>But it appears that the lead detective had a motivation

0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.720
<v Speaker 1>to ignore this more compelling suspect, instead choosing to pursue

0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 1>what was an impossible narrative.

0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.000
<v Speaker 4>We go to my plumbing hearing and the detectives. His

0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.120
<v Speaker 4>old events were when I came to Savannah to pick

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.239
<v Speaker 4>my vehicle up from the impound. He said, I did

0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.320
<v Speaker 4>all that Sunday record, show all my vehicles an impound Sunday.

0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.160
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even have my vehicle that Sunday. I came

0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:14.960
<v Speaker 2>to Savannah that.

0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.760
<v Speaker 4>Monday, and then we did a video audio statement in

0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.320
<v Speaker 4>front of an attorney and he's saying my account for

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.919
<v Speaker 4>that day, and I'm like, look, these are my witnesses.

0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.880
<v Speaker 4>I said, I went through Wedndays that morning to have cameras.

0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.160
<v Speaker 4>I went through this quick trip gas station to have cameras.

0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.920
<v Speaker 4>It's gonna be substantiate. These are my witnesses. He didn't

0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.280
<v Speaker 4>care about none of that. In his mind. I'm a Muslim,

0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 4>I come did this and he goes that. He called

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.240
<v Speaker 4>home ob security said this guy's terrorists. You need to

0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.359
<v Speaker 4>check on him. This is literally what the guy said.

0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.640
<v Speaker 3>So it seems that this detective, Henry Trey Carter's, well,

0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.119
<v Speaker 3>he thought that Sonny's complexion made him a better fit

0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:52.600
<v Speaker 3>for Al Qaeda than Sterling and Flint. This still wouldn't

0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.560
<v Speaker 3>have been acceptable if Sunny was Muslim or Arab, But

0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.800
<v Speaker 3>to make matters even more absurd, Sunny is an Indian

0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:05.199
<v Speaker 3>American Evangelical Christian, not a black man, as the victim

0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.040
<v Speaker 3>had described to this detective.

0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the lead detective got arrest before my trial on

0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.080
<v Speaker 4>something else he had going on. The original police statement disappeared,

0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.560
<v Speaker 4>which before my name was put into it, the victim

0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.280
<v Speaker 4>description of the guy was a blackmail The photo lineups disappeared.

0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:24.159
<v Speaker 5>Trial council's whole strategy was to show the two photo

0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.720
<v Speaker 5>arrays where the victim identifies Sterling, Flint and one other

0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.640
<v Speaker 5>black man. She does a second photo array where Sterling

0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:32.639
<v Speaker 5>Flint is not a part of it, and she identifies Sonny.

0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.400
<v Speaker 5>He's going to show how ridiculously dissimilar these people look

0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.240
<v Speaker 5>and that she identified everyone, and it destroys the case.

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.560
<v Speaker 5>And that's his whole plan. Well, he doesn't get the

0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 5>photo arrays before trial. He expects the prosecution to show

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.359
<v Speaker 5>up with the photo arrays at trial and they don't.

0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:49.720
<v Speaker 4>He's seen them, but DA doesn't have a copy of

0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.280
<v Speaker 4>When I was testifying the trial attorney, he stated, like

0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.800
<v Speaker 4>on his little ad lib starts on out of lineups,

0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.560
<v Speaker 4>how I was only clear a photo, that every photo

0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.240
<v Speaker 4>on a lineup was blurred, and they will blackmails.

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:01.920
<v Speaker 2>He said.

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.919
<v Speaker 4>He talked to the chief police at that time and

0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.399
<v Speaker 4>he goes chief police said that he laughed about it.

0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.440
<v Speaker 4>He's like, this case is nonsensical. Just the things didn't

0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:09.880
<v Speaker 4>add up.

0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:14.720
<v Speaker 5>Trial Council's whole strategy is gone. So he, with no preparation,

0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:18.679
<v Speaker 5>calls alibi witnesses to the stand, who were just thinking

0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.000
<v Speaker 5>they're going to court to sit in the gallery and

0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.960
<v Speaker 5>support Sonny. So he's calling Sonny's girlfriend, Sonny's friend to

0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.359
<v Speaker 5>the stand, and they're trying to remember dates and things

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:29.040
<v Speaker 5>off the top of their heads. They're not prepared.

0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:33.080
<v Speaker 3>If you remember, Sonny and his alibi witnesses had seen

0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:37.359
<v Speaker 3>Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Stone on November seventeenth, the

0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.399
<v Speaker 3>second day of its release in the US.

0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:41.439
<v Speaker 5>They get the date wrong of when they go to

0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:44.280
<v Speaker 5>the movies, Sunny's girlfriend says, we took the kids to

0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.960
<v Speaker 5>see the Harry Potter movie on this date. It wasn't

0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.280
<v Speaker 5>this other date. Well, the movie wasn't even out yet.

0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.800
<v Speaker 1>Misremembering this event as from a prior weekend appears to

0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.600
<v Speaker 1>have damaged the rest of Sonny's alibi as far as

0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.240
<v Speaker 1>when he picked up and dropped off the socket wrenches

0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 1>with Keisha Pitts, so we know.

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:01.520
<v Speaker 5>Oh, it's just a mix up. A's because as they

0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:04.200
<v Speaker 5>weren't prepared, because he wasn't prepared, and I think that

0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.639
<v Speaker 5>this case is so ridiculous. He kind of thought it

0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.840
<v Speaker 5>would resolve itself, but that's not an attorney strategy. You

0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 5>have to be over prepared. He didn't investigate the alibi

0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:14.200
<v Speaker 5>any more than the police did.

0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.040
<v Speaker 3>Sunny's cell phone records would have placed him in Atlanta.

0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.480
<v Speaker 3>The Wendy's security cam at eleven am would have left

0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.600
<v Speaker 3>Sonny with insufficient time to make the four hour one

0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.800
<v Speaker 3>way trip to Thunderbolt in order to commit the crime

0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.160
<v Speaker 3>before two forty pm. And it would have been helpful

0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.160
<v Speaker 3>if the batting gloves had been tested for touch DNA,

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:38.160
<v Speaker 3>but at that time testing of this nature wasn't even

0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.680
<v Speaker 3>being done by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. And then

0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:43.600
<v Speaker 3>Sterling Flint took the stand.

0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.800
<v Speaker 5>So Sterling Flint at this time had been convicted of

0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:52.600
<v Speaker 5>committing two other burglaries in Sunny's Tahoe, daytime burglaries, very

0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.359
<v Speaker 5>similar crimes. He does not come prepared with the police reports,

0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.760
<v Speaker 5>and he thinks at the time that their open charges

0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.560
<v Speaker 5>against Sterling Flint. He doesn't realize he took a pleat

0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.160
<v Speaker 5>he's already been convicted of those. So he asked sterling

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.720
<v Speaker 5>Flint on the stand, well, isn't it true that you

0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.600
<v Speaker 5>have these pending charges of burglaries? And sterling Flint says, no,

0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.760
<v Speaker 5>that's not true. They've been disposed of. Well, that's a

0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:15.600
<v Speaker 5>tricky way to say it, but yeah, he is right.

0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:17.560
<v Speaker 5>It's not true that he had pending charges. He had

0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.600
<v Speaker 5>convictions for similar crimes, and the attorney didn't come in

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.639
<v Speaker 5>prepared to say, look, this guy was stealing things out

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:25.480
<v Speaker 5>of people's homes in Sonny's.

0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:29.240
<v Speaker 1>Tahoe, and without all of this crucial preparation, Sonny didn't

0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.320
<v Speaker 1>have a chance in hell. When the victim took the stand.

0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:35.000
<v Speaker 4>When she got an oath, she goes a friend emailer

0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:37.760
<v Speaker 4>article by the crime, Yeah, color photo me in the paper.

0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.000
<v Speaker 4>She satisfied, and she's been looking at that photo every day.

0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:42.560
<v Speaker 4>She goes those were the eyes. I got brown eyes.

0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:44.840
<v Speaker 4>He has brown eyes. I just couldn't believe it, Like

0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.000
<v Speaker 4>my heart dropped because I was adamant, like she's going

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:48.520
<v Speaker 4>to see me say hey to Saint the guy.

0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:52.480
<v Speaker 3>Add the district attorney leaned into the racism of the

0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:54.920
<v Speaker 3>time to further seal Sonny's fate.

0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.359
<v Speaker 4>I remember clearly being a trial to DH she goes,

0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.000
<v Speaker 4>am I a Muslim? And I said no, I said,

0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:03.080
<v Speaker 4>I just go to this church here. If you choose

0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.359
<v Speaker 4>be a Muslim, that's fine. I respect that by faith.

0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm Christian. It's like, no, you're a Muslim. And I'm like,

0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a Muslim. And it's on my child transcript.

0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:12.960
<v Speaker 2>She's telling me I'm a Muslim.

0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:15.000
<v Speaker 4>And you know how the jury looked at the post

0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:18.440
<v Speaker 4>ninet eleven, I get convicted and the judge said life

0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:19.200
<v Speaker 4>file parole.

0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:21.879
<v Speaker 2>That's the first of my life. My knees ever shook.

0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:36.600
<v Speaker 4>It's like you're trying to process this like this is

0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:39.240
<v Speaker 4>a nightmare that just want to stop here. I'm in

0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:42.040
<v Speaker 4>prison for something I did not do and they want

0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:45.520
<v Speaker 4>me to die. How are you supposed to process that.

0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:49.399
<v Speaker 4>You know, prison is a violence. I mean it's like

0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:51.040
<v Speaker 4>a fight of flight mode in a jungle when you

0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:53.720
<v Speaker 4>have to survive and you as like you have shape

0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:55.240
<v Speaker 4>you put in a jungle full alliance, I mean, what

0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:59.119
<v Speaker 4>are you supposed to do? I was a hate state prism,

0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:03.600
<v Speaker 4>Like two thousand five through fourteen. The captain of the

0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:07.320
<v Speaker 4>prison was putting hits on inmateson officers, so you understand,

0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:10.800
<v Speaker 4>like this is general. Not everybody knew this. Like he'd

0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:13.080
<v Speaker 4>bring like the contraband in give it to this gang.

0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:15.320
<v Speaker 4>This gang would take him off. He'd goes have this

0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:18.399
<v Speaker 4>officerc confiscated to give to another gang. And like it

0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.600
<v Speaker 4>was so wild. And my officer was saying they were

0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:24.320
<v Speaker 4>scared to come into dormitories because the inmates rano prison.

0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:27.520
<v Speaker 4>They would literally they might kidnap somebody from one building,

0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:30.840
<v Speaker 4>have them in another building, calling their family, threaten to

0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:33.480
<v Speaker 4>kill them if they don't send him money. So this

0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 4>is the environment you're in and you gotta survive. It's

0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:39.119
<v Speaker 4>not only inmates. You have to look officers too. And

0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:42.800
<v Speaker 4>like twenty eighteen, I went in a dormitory also open

0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:45.040
<v Speaker 4>the doors. Two officers right there and a guy comes

0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 4>to me on a knife about a foot long. The

0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:48.760
<v Speaker 4>oss is looking at and they got tastes on them.

0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:51.240
<v Speaker 4>They're just looking like with a mousa jar. I'm like

0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:53.760
<v Speaker 4>forty something years old. This guy's like half my age.

0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:55.960
<v Speaker 4>I can't run and so I'm trying to fight this guy,

0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:58.560
<v Speaker 4>and finally, by fluke, I pushed him and he fell

0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:00.240
<v Speaker 4>and I got on top of him. The office came,

0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:02.520
<v Speaker 4>throw me against the wall, handcuffed me, and that's when

0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:03.600
<v Speaker 4>I saw a blood all of me.

0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:05.600
<v Speaker 2>I got stabbed twelve times.

0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:08.240
<v Speaker 4>Jesus, I didn't even know i'd got stab but this

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 4>is Georgia prisons, like a life is not valued, and

0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:13.800
<v Speaker 4>I just I'm okay. I made it through that. It

0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:15.760
<v Speaker 4>was a nightmare through it all. I lost my father,

0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:17.960
<v Speaker 4>I lost people deed to me, and you see yours,

0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:19.800
<v Speaker 4>your life go by, You see your youth go by,

0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:21.000
<v Speaker 4>to prim you life go by.

0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Winning his freedom was an urgent matter that took just

0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:27.480
<v Speaker 1>short of twenty three long years.

0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:31.560
<v Speaker 5>In Georgia. The first step after your conviction is called

0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:33.960
<v Speaker 5>a motion for a new trial, and so it's basically

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:36.080
<v Speaker 5>an appeal that goes back to that same court, that

0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:39.240
<v Speaker 5>same judge. So that was filed right after Sunny's conviction,

0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:44.080
<v Speaker 5>and it was amended by Sonny's appellata attorney to add

0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:46.560
<v Speaker 5>just a mountain of claims for him, and.

0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:50.080
<v Speaker 3>Many of these claims stem from the ineffectiveness of his

0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:53.680
<v Speaker 3>trial counsel. This is when the batting gloves come into play.

0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:59.680
<v Speaker 3>Let's remember Georgia Bureau of Investigation only DNA tested biological fluids.

0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:03.760
<v Speaker 3>These gloves needed touch DNA testing, meaning they needed to

0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:08.000
<v Speaker 3>lift skin cells from inside the gloves, and Sonny's appelleat

0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:10.360
<v Speaker 3>attorney got this testing approved.

0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:10.840
<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and four.

0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:13.040
<v Speaker 4>My attorney goes, hey, are you sure you want to

0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:15.120
<v Speaker 4>get DNA tested in these gloves because if he comes

0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:17.199
<v Speaker 4>back showing a shoot, that's a found nail in the coffin.

0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:19.440
<v Speaker 4>And I wrote him a letter in big words, I

0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:21.280
<v Speaker 4>am innocent, and I'm mailed it to him.

0:25:21.440 --> 0:25:24.479
<v Speaker 5>And so when Sonny's a Pellet attorney gets this super

0:25:24.520 --> 0:25:26.119
<v Speaker 5>cutting edge test and he has to send it to

0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.399
<v Speaker 5>a lab in California because he can't find anyone locally

0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:31.080
<v Speaker 5>that's doing it, Sonny's a Pellet attorney believes in him

0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:35.240
<v Speaker 5>so wholeheartedly he offers to forego his own pay in

0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:37.639
<v Speaker 5>the case to pay for the DNA testing, and the

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:40.000
<v Speaker 5>court takes him up on it. He gets the DNA results.

0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:41.520
<v Speaker 5>They exclude sonny.

0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 4>But also on the outside of gloves because the victim goes,

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:46.280
<v Speaker 4>I covered the mouthfoot of gloves. He said, there's a

0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:49.200
<v Speaker 4>female DNA and outside of gloves. They got a coke

0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:51.960
<v Speaker 4>can from the victim's house. He tested in the same

0:25:52.200 --> 0:25:55.120
<v Speaker 4>female denis and coke can is on the outside of gloves.

0:25:55.240 --> 0:25:58.080
<v Speaker 4>So he recommends that for a profile the victims DNA

0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:00.000
<v Speaker 4>get taken as well as sterling flints.

0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:01.159
<v Speaker 2>The State of checks to it.

0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:03.760
<v Speaker 1>So he moves forward with the only new evidence that

0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:04.320
<v Speaker 1>he's got.

0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:08.680
<v Speaker 5>However, the way he raised the new evidence was that

0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:11.480
<v Speaker 5>the trial attorney should have gotten this test done. Well,

0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:14.200
<v Speaker 5>that's not really true. The trial attorney can't be expected

0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:16.240
<v Speaker 5>to get a test done that the Georgia lab won't

0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:18.560
<v Speaker 5>even do. He does at the end throw in like

0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:21.280
<v Speaker 5>or maybe this is new evidence. But when you raise

0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:22.680
<v Speaker 5>a new evidence claim, you have to make a really

0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:25.000
<v Speaker 5>specific showing. And he doesn't make that showing. And he

0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:27.120
<v Speaker 5>gets a hearing on this motion for a new trial,

0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:28.679
<v Speaker 5>so he gets to put some evidence on the record.

0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:31.280
<v Speaker 5>And so even though this evidence that Sonny was not

0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:34.120
<v Speaker 5>part of this crime. This DNA evidence has existed since

0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:36.240
<v Speaker 5>like two thousand and three. The way that it was

0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:40.119
<v Speaker 5>raised procedurally posed a problem. It's not the right claim

0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:42.560
<v Speaker 5>because he actually went so far above and beyond what

0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:44.439
<v Speaker 5>an attorney can be expected to do to get this

0:26:44.480 --> 0:26:47.159
<v Speaker 5>test done. So we can't say the trial council was

0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:48.880
<v Speaker 5>deficient for not doing the same thing.

0:26:49.200 --> 0:26:52.240
<v Speaker 3>The courts concluded that the attorney was not at fault,

0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:57.000
<v Speaker 3>so even though the new evidence proved Sonny's innocence, this

0:26:57.080 --> 0:26:57.840
<v Speaker 3>claim failed.

0:26:58.119 --> 0:27:01.840
<v Speaker 5>The next thing that what happens is the Appella attorney

0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:05.479
<v Speaker 5>starts partnering with the Georgia Innosonce Project around twenty eleven

0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:08.920
<v Speaker 5>to file what in Georgia is called an extraordinary motion

0:27:09.040 --> 0:27:12.480
<v Speaker 5>for new trial the post conviction litigation avenue in the

0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:16.320
<v Speaker 5>state of Georgia, where you have new evidence that was

0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:19.480
<v Speaker 5>not available to you before. And one of the bases

0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:22.880
<v Speaker 5>for this new evidence is that in twenty twelve they

0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:25.399
<v Speaker 5>were able to get a codis hit for sterling flint

0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:27.480
<v Speaker 5>on the gloves. But Matt goes up to the Supreme

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:29.720
<v Speaker 5>Court of Georgia and they say trial council should have

0:27:29.760 --> 0:27:31.560
<v Speaker 5>gotten this test done. If you got it done a

0:27:31.640 --> 0:27:34.040
<v Speaker 5>year later, trial council should have done it without really

0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:36.280
<v Speaker 5>appreciating what he went through to get the test done.

0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:38.320
<v Speaker 4>So you hold to be accountable in two thousand and

0:27:38.359 --> 0:27:40.800
<v Speaker 4>three for a test that the crime lab didn't even

0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:41.840
<v Speaker 4>use twenty eleven.

0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:44.520
<v Speaker 1>It also kind of sounds like the reverse course on

0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:49.159
<v Speaker 1>the earlier ruling that trial council was not ineffective. Now

0:27:49.200 --> 0:27:52.000
<v Speaker 1>they're saying that trial council could have done this, but

0:27:52.080 --> 0:27:56.400
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't matter since it's procedurally barred. So after this defeat,

0:27:56.440 --> 0:28:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Sunny's attorneys needed to regroup. In the interim, at Old

0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:01.560
<v Speaker 1>did an interview.

0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:03.920
<v Speaker 4>She did an interview called Shadow of Doubt we Living

0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:06.639
<v Speaker 4>the Life on YouTube and originally the Stolen Goods. She

0:28:06.680 --> 0:28:09.000
<v Speaker 4>goes that when my boyfriend picked up from work, he

0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:11.480
<v Speaker 4>had a UHUL trailer and he had a burgeran Cobb

0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:13.560
<v Speaker 4>County involvement, an U haul trailer, and they parked the

0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:16.160
<v Speaker 4>U all trailer at her sister's house and her sister

0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:19.240
<v Speaker 4>stay a stone's throw from a victim's house. Recalls a

0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:21.679
<v Speaker 4>couple days later, says, hey, can you go to your

0:28:21.680 --> 0:28:23.280
<v Speaker 4>sister's house, go get the stuff out of you haul

0:28:23.320 --> 0:28:25.879
<v Speaker 4>and put it your house, and that's the victim stolen goods.

0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:28.240
<v Speaker 2>She covered up for a boyfriend.

0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:30.560
<v Speaker 4>And she went on TV years ago said when it

0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:33.280
<v Speaker 4>found the stuff, he told Race I brought stuff there.

0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:35.639
<v Speaker 4>So she believing what he said, told a police that.

0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:38.320
<v Speaker 4>Then the whole storyline changes. So does one police officer

0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:40.280
<v Speaker 4>telling another police officer, Hey, who's wordy?

0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:44.200
<v Speaker 3>Gonna take just one officer to another. And she said

0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:47.640
<v Speaker 3>the stolen goods came from Sonny. And then the victim

0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:51.520
<v Speaker 3>viewed another photo lineup. This one did not contain Sterling

0:28:51.600 --> 0:28:55.479
<v Speaker 3>Flint and only had one clear photo Sonnings. But it

0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:58.959
<v Speaker 3>doesn't even have to be that devious for cross racial

0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:03.360
<v Speaker 3>misidentification to occur. Consider the case of Ronald Cotton and

0:29:03.440 --> 0:29:04.320
<v Speaker 3>Jennifer Thompson.

0:29:04.760 --> 0:29:07.719
<v Speaker 4>I came across a book in twenty sixteen picking Cotton,

0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:09.840
<v Speaker 4>and it was about a guy named Ronald Cotton. Said

0:29:09.880 --> 0:29:12.880
<v Speaker 4>he was convicted of crime, he was innocent of the victim.

0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:15.400
<v Speaker 4>Jennifer Thompson said she was sure that it was him

0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:17.440
<v Speaker 4>the eyes and this, and that I could empatize with

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:18.200
<v Speaker 4>that because of my case.

0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:19.360
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what happened.

0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Recovered the case on the podcast and Jennifer Thompson was

0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:27.040
<v Speaker 1>called the perfect witness. She was sober, she was awake,

0:29:27.440 --> 0:29:30.680
<v Speaker 1>a black man broke into her home and brutally assaulted

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:34.360
<v Speaker 1>her for twenty five minutes, and her whole being was

0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:38.720
<v Speaker 1>wrapped up. As she describes it, in studying every feature because,

0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:40.800
<v Speaker 1>as she says, I get the chills thinking about it.

0:29:40.840 --> 0:29:43.160
<v Speaker 1>If I survived, I was going to make sure that

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:46.120
<v Speaker 1>I could identify this man so no one would ever

0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:49.560
<v Speaker 1>have to suffer the way I was. And sure enough,

0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:52.200
<v Speaker 1>they picked up mister Cotton not too long after this

0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:57.360
<v Speaker 1>horrible crime occurred, and she identified him with absolute certainty.

0:29:57.560 --> 0:30:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Of course, he was convicted, and eleven years later there

0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:03.160
<v Speaker 1>was another guy in the prison that people were talking about.

0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 1>He's the one who actually committed the crime. It turned

0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:08.040
<v Speaker 1>out he looked very much like mister Cotton, and DNA

0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:11.200
<v Speaker 1>ultimately proved that he in fact was the perpetrator, and

0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:14.840
<v Speaker 1>he had gone on to commit many other horrible crimes

0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 1>by the time he was arrested, and.

0:30:16.600 --> 0:30:20.960
<v Speaker 5>Just a small plug to defense attorneys and prosecutors. She

0:30:21.200 --> 0:30:24.480
<v Speaker 5>founded an organization called Healing Justice. And if you're in

0:30:24.520 --> 0:30:28.400
<v Speaker 5>a situation like this where you need to approach a

0:30:28.480 --> 0:30:31.040
<v Speaker 5>victim and you're trying not to do more harm, You're

0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:35.040
<v Speaker 5>trying not to impose more trauma. Her organization will help

0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:36.840
<v Speaker 5>you figure out how to do that the best way.

0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:39.240
<v Speaker 5>So I've used that many times, and it's so important

0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:42.080
<v Speaker 5>because this problem is not an individual's problem. It's a

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:43.040
<v Speaker 5>systemic problem.

0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:45.680
<v Speaker 1>It's a great organization. And I'm a proud donor. And

0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:48.040
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer as one of my heroes, as is Ronald Cotton.

0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:51.000
<v Speaker 1>And important to note they became very close friends. As

0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:53.680
<v Speaker 1>they wrote picking Cotton, which is such an incredible name.

0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:56.920
<v Speaker 1>They've done sixty minutes together, They've been on wrongful conviction together.

0:30:57.080 --> 0:31:01.640
<v Speaker 1>They've toured the country giving presentations to lost students and

0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:05.200
<v Speaker 1>prosecutors and anyone that will listen to them about the

0:31:05.280 --> 0:31:10.000
<v Speaker 1>unreliability of eyewitness identification. And Sonny, if memory serves me,

0:31:10.120 --> 0:31:13.000
<v Speaker 1>she brought your case to my attention.

0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:15.920
<v Speaker 4>And yes, So I got in touch with her on

0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:18.600
<v Speaker 4>Facebook and she's like, I'm on team Sonny.

0:31:18.760 --> 0:31:21.080
<v Speaker 2>So she was my life readily for me. She's one

0:31:21.120 --> 0:31:23.320
<v Speaker 2>of my mentors. She really is. I try to hang

0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:24.840
<v Speaker 2>myself years ago. I did, I actually did.

0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:27.040
<v Speaker 4>I didn't succeed, just went through some things, but It's

0:31:27.080 --> 0:31:29.080
<v Speaker 4>like Jennifer was like one of people i'd always go

0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:31.080
<v Speaker 4>to kind of give me reality check. She was always

0:31:31.120 --> 0:31:32.800
<v Speaker 4>blunt with me and honest with me. She's like, I'm

0:31:32.800 --> 0:31:34.640
<v Speaker 4>gonna beat it the gates when you get out, and

0:31:34.680 --> 0:31:36.800
<v Speaker 4>it's like these things manifested, they really did.

0:31:37.040 --> 0:31:38.080
<v Speaker 2>She kept a word.

0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:39.760
<v Speaker 1>She's kind of like an angel. She has a very

0:31:39.760 --> 0:31:40.640
<v Speaker 1>angelus quality.

0:31:41.280 --> 0:31:41.680
<v Speaker 2>Jennifer.

0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:44.320
<v Speaker 1>If you're listening and you're blushing, you should be because

0:31:44.360 --> 0:31:46.959
<v Speaker 1>we have so much respect for you here. So okay,

0:31:47.000 --> 0:31:50.120
<v Speaker 1>So then along comes through other angel, Olivia.

0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:50.640
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:54.320
<v Speaker 5>I was working for the Georgia Innocence Project. Sonny was

0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:56.880
<v Speaker 5>my first client. So even after I left the Georgia

0:31:56.960 --> 0:31:59.600
<v Speaker 5>Ennosonce project. It's always hard to leave a job, leave

0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:01.760
<v Speaker 5>your case, but I couldn't leave Sonny. So I have

0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:04.280
<v Speaker 5>stayed with him as pro bono council for the past

0:32:04.360 --> 0:32:07.680
<v Speaker 5>three years. And so when we filed an amended habeas

0:32:07.680 --> 0:32:10.360
<v Speaker 5>petition in twenty twenty two, all of our claims they

0:32:10.360 --> 0:32:13.760
<v Speaker 5>were all based on ineffective assistance of appellate Council for

0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:16.400
<v Speaker 5>the way he raised the claims. And I want to

0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:20.040
<v Speaker 5>just be really clear, ineffective assistance of council doesn't mean

0:32:20.120 --> 0:32:24.480
<v Speaker 5>bad attorney. This appellate Council did an amazing job getting

0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:29.320
<v Speaker 5>the DNA, very vigorous advocate, and still it was constitutionally defective.

0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:32.600
<v Speaker 5>So we were granted an evidentiary hearing in the middle

0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:35.240
<v Speaker 5>of twenty twenty three where we put all this evidence

0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:39.040
<v Speaker 5>on the record that finally clarified what these procedural mistakes were.

0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:42.200
<v Speaker 5>And Sunny's appellat attorney was very helpful at the hearing.

0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:44.960
<v Speaker 5>He explained that he just made a lot of mistakes.

0:32:45.280 --> 0:32:49.480
<v Speaker 1>In addition, many witnesses testified in support of Sonny's innocence claim,

0:32:49.720 --> 0:32:51.520
<v Speaker 1>including Ashley Dold.

0:32:51.920 --> 0:32:53.880
<v Speaker 2>She testified that I wasn't there.

0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:56.479
<v Speaker 4>My ex girlfriend test fied the one who got confused

0:32:56.520 --> 0:32:58.800
<v Speaker 4>at trial, and one of my witnesses died over the.

0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:02.520
<v Speaker 3>Years, that was Kisha Pitts. But her husband Ray Shawan

0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:04.000
<v Speaker 3>took the stand in hestead.

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:06.520
<v Speaker 4>He said he remembers I called him that morning asked

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.160
<v Speaker 4>I pick of soakkasent from his house, and Kesha called

0:33:09.200 --> 0:33:11.080
<v Speaker 4>him and he's like, Sonny came picked it up, and

0:33:11.120 --> 0:33:13.480
<v Speaker 4>then when I came back that evening she called to

0:33:13.560 --> 0:33:14.680
<v Speaker 4>Sonny dropped the stuff off.

0:33:14.920 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 1>And this established a timeframe which made it impossible for

0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:21.120
<v Speaker 1>an eight hour round trip to Thunderbolt, Georgia, a timeframe

0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:24.720
<v Speaker 1>that your trial counsel didn't prepare enough to even do

0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:27.440
<v Speaker 1>a rudimentary job of laying it out.

0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:30.440
<v Speaker 5>And I will say that trial attorney did testify and

0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:33.840
<v Speaker 5>he wept on the stand. He told us he thinks

0:33:33.840 --> 0:33:35.840
<v Speaker 5>about Sonny all the time. This case keeps him up

0:33:35.840 --> 0:33:38.680
<v Speaker 5>at night. He always believed in Sonny. He just was

0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:43.240
<v Speaker 5>so overconfident because the case was so ridiculous and had

0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:45.840
<v Speaker 5>a lot of regret. But of course we can't not

0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:49.000
<v Speaker 5>prepare just because the case is ridiculous. And in twenty

0:33:49.040 --> 0:33:53.240
<v Speaker 5>twenty four, Judge Tate out of Gwinnett County granted Sonny's

0:33:53.560 --> 0:33:56.560
<v Speaker 5>habeas petition, which was not appealed by the Attorney General,

0:33:56.720 --> 0:33:58.000
<v Speaker 5>so that overturned his conviction.

0:33:58.480 --> 0:34:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Sonny was transferred to jail prior to his release, but

0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:06.480
<v Speaker 3>the date of his actual release still remained unclear.

0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:09.319
<v Speaker 5>That morning, I was like, look, the paperwork's not done.

0:34:09.400 --> 0:34:11.319
<v Speaker 5>I don't know when you're getting out. We didn't think

0:34:11.320 --> 0:34:12.120
<v Speaker 5>he was getting out.

0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:13.319
<v Speaker 2>That day I was in a county jail.

0:34:13.320 --> 0:34:16.640
<v Speaker 4>But remember I go up to intake and she told

0:34:16.760 --> 0:34:19.279
<v Speaker 4>officer like gave my property and stuff. So I had

0:34:19.360 --> 0:34:22.400
<v Speaker 4>certain books like Long Walked, Freedom of my Bible, some

0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:25.279
<v Speaker 4>letters I kept over the years, and these things meant

0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:26.839
<v Speaker 4>something to me. So they're like in a little clear

0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:30.279
<v Speaker 4>trash bag. So she tells us to dress me out.

0:34:30.400 --> 0:34:32.400
<v Speaker 4>So I'm still like the reality is not sitting in,

0:34:32.520 --> 0:34:34.640
<v Speaker 4>like something's gonna happen, Like they're gonna say, hey, we're

0:34:34.640 --> 0:34:36.759
<v Speaker 4>making a mistake of something. She told me like, hey,

0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:38.160
<v Speaker 4>you got to go out this door. So when I

0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:40.479
<v Speaker 4>pressed the button, the door open, it's a parking lot.

0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:43.400
<v Speaker 4>So it's me, this trash bag of books and a

0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:44.240
<v Speaker 4>parking lot.

0:34:44.680 --> 0:34:45.680
<v Speaker 2>So I run.

0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:48.360
<v Speaker 4>I forrest gumped at that guy was running out the

0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:51.120
<v Speaker 4>drunning down his driveway. That's how I was running. I

0:34:51.120 --> 0:34:53.360
<v Speaker 4>didn't know where I was going. I was just running.

0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:55.440
<v Speaker 4>I said, I got to get on the phone, somebody

0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:58.520
<v Speaker 4>to call Olivia. So I ran one way and it's

0:34:58.560 --> 0:35:00.320
<v Speaker 4>like a concrete plant. I'm like, what this is the

0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:02.759
<v Speaker 4>wrong way. Then I'm running along a tree line, so

0:35:02.920 --> 0:35:05.320
<v Speaker 4>I'm like looking back, saying, hey, they might realize we

0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:05.920
<v Speaker 4>made a mistake.

0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Lay this guy out. So I keep looking back every second. Paranol.

0:35:09.160 --> 0:35:12.200
<v Speaker 4>My bag of books is like coming apart, like holes

0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:13.920
<v Speaker 4>in it, and I'm trying to hold these books together.

0:35:14.360 --> 0:35:17.040
<v Speaker 4>And finally I get to this little place and I'm

0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:18.960
<v Speaker 4>like yelling, cause somebody help me. And a guy's like,

0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:20.279
<v Speaker 4>how can I help you. I said, Hey, my name

0:35:20.320 --> 0:35:21.719
<v Speaker 4>is Sonny Barata. You can google me.

0:35:22.160 --> 0:35:23.920
<v Speaker 2>They just let me out of jail. I was innocent.

0:35:23.960 --> 0:35:26.520
<v Speaker 4>I've been in prison twenty something years. I just need

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:28.719
<v Speaker 4>to call him, my attorney, so to come get me in.

0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:31.720
<v Speaker 4>He's like, what's the phone number? Sort of laughing, he cold.

0:35:31.560 --> 0:35:33.600
<v Speaker 5>And then I get this random number call and I

0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:35.440
<v Speaker 5>know it's Sonny, and I pick up the phone and

0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:37.160
<v Speaker 5>he said, they let me out. They let me out,

0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:38.560
<v Speaker 5>They let me out. I don't know where I am.

0:35:39.239 --> 0:35:42.120
<v Speaker 5>And then a man gets on the phone, gives me

0:35:42.200 --> 0:35:44.239
<v Speaker 5>the address and hangs up on me. And that's it.

0:35:44.239 --> 0:35:46.840
<v Speaker 5>That's all the information I get. I passed the information

0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:48.960
<v Speaker 5>along to someone closer and she said, why is he

0:35:49.000 --> 0:35:50.520
<v Speaker 5>at this address? And I was like, I don't know.

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:53.319
<v Speaker 4>And by the time I got home, Oliviy was at

0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:56.440
<v Speaker 4>my mother's house. Came from Detroit, and Jennifer Thompson came

0:35:56.480 --> 0:35:59.440
<v Speaker 4>from Chapel Hill. She was at my mom's house. Amazing

0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:00.880
<v Speaker 4>so I was like, it's such a highlight, just like

0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:03.719
<v Speaker 4>a mount top experience. The last couple of months, I mean,

0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 4>just trying to find my place right now, it's still

0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:08.280
<v Speaker 4>hard to process at all. I don't understand a purpose

0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:10.000
<v Speaker 4>why I went through it, but it's like at the

0:36:10.080 --> 0:36:12.800
<v Speaker 4>same time, I like to help people. Me and Jennifer

0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:14.719
<v Speaker 4>Thompson talked about it, and she was like, maybe I

0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:16.920
<v Speaker 4>could start some time Healing Justice thing in Georgia. So

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:19.799
<v Speaker 4>that's maybe one thing I'm looking at. But I had

0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:22.239
<v Speaker 4>not imporous of having a voice because so many years

0:36:22.239 --> 0:36:24.560
<v Speaker 4>I didn't have a voice, and I have a voice now,

0:36:24.640 --> 0:36:26.319
<v Speaker 4>so I want to use my voice to help people

0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:27.200
<v Speaker 4>that don't have a voice.

0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:30.160
<v Speaker 1>If anyone would like to talk to Sunny about public speaking,

0:36:30.200 --> 0:36:32.640
<v Speaker 1>and I really hope you will, then we're going to

0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:35.440
<v Speaker 1>link his instagram in the episode description so you can

0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:39.400
<v Speaker 1>reach out. And Sunday's Instagram is at sun B nineteen

0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:42.080
<v Speaker 1>forty four. I'm gonna spell it out. That's so and

0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:47.239
<v Speaker 1>letter B like Sunny Varietia So son B nineteen forty four.

0:36:47.440 --> 0:36:49.480
<v Speaker 1>We're also going to link to Healing Justice and the

0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:52.560
<v Speaker 1>episode that Jennifer Thompson and Ronald Cotton did together.

0:36:52.840 --> 0:36:57.160
<v Speaker 3>And since the recording of this interview, on May sixteenth,

0:36:57.320 --> 0:37:01.719
<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty five, Sunny's charges were officially dismissed.

0:37:02.280 --> 0:37:05.680
<v Speaker 4>The feeling itself was exhilarating. I mean, I've never had

0:37:05.719 --> 0:37:09.040
<v Speaker 4>a feeling like that. It's like, I'll wait off you

0:37:09.840 --> 0:37:13.880
<v Speaker 4>and Jennifer Thompson of Healing Justice was there, my attorney

0:37:14.160 --> 0:37:19.600
<v Speaker 4>Olivia Vigiletti, Christina Cribs, Noah Pines, and the George Andoson's project,

0:37:19.800 --> 0:37:22.920
<v Speaker 4>and my mom and it was just amazing because I

0:37:22.920 --> 0:37:25.240
<v Speaker 4>couldn't have made it in this journey about these people.

0:37:25.760 --> 0:37:28.440
<v Speaker 4>After my dismissal, they had like a little pot luck

0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:31.399
<v Speaker 4>type party and my Girlfriendjoe down to Florida, so I've

0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:34.200
<v Speaker 4>been at Panama City Beach since Sunday and needed this

0:37:34.560 --> 0:37:35.480
<v Speaker 4>much needed.

0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:38.800
<v Speaker 3>We were all so happy for you, while of course

0:37:38.880 --> 0:37:42.000
<v Speaker 3>wishing that this never happened in the first place.

0:37:42.640 --> 0:37:44.560
<v Speaker 1>And with that, we're going to go to closing arguments

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:48.400
<v Speaker 1>where first I think we thank both of you for

0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 1>joining us, and then I'm just gonna turn my microphone

0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:56.080
<v Speaker 1>off with my headphones on and just kicked back in

0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:58.880
<v Speaker 1>my chair and listen for you to share anything you

0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:01.840
<v Speaker 1>feel is left to be said, We're going to start

0:38:01.880 --> 0:38:04.839
<v Speaker 1>with Olivia and then Sonny, you take us off into

0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:05.400
<v Speaker 1>the sunset.

0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:09.200
<v Speaker 5>Wow, that is fun, and I feel very put on

0:38:09.239 --> 0:38:12.240
<v Speaker 5>the spot. I would like to tell a story of Sonny,

0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:15.760
<v Speaker 5>because it's of course never a requirement that your client

0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:20.800
<v Speaker 5>be exceptional and incredible. But Sonny has been lead counsel

0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:23.839
<v Speaker 5>on this case his entire life, and the whole time

0:38:23.880 --> 0:38:26.200
<v Speaker 5>he's been fighting this and has taught me a lot

0:38:26.200 --> 0:38:29.040
<v Speaker 5>of things at every turn. And we were talking one time,

0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:31.879
<v Speaker 5>kind of dreaming about the day Sonny might get out

0:38:31.920 --> 0:38:35.000
<v Speaker 5>of prison, and I asked him how he was preparing

0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:38.360
<v Speaker 5>to transition back into the world, and he told me

0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:41.319
<v Speaker 5>something that I thought was really random at first, but

0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:43.480
<v Speaker 5>connected it back. He said, do you remember in the

0:38:43.560 --> 0:38:45.920
<v Speaker 5>nineties when they would always show the oil spills on

0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:48.719
<v Speaker 5>TV and you'd always see like oil covered pictures of

0:38:48.800 --> 0:38:50.520
<v Speaker 5>ducks and stuff. But then they show that like you

0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:52.480
<v Speaker 5>just wipe them down with some dawn and then they're

0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:54.800
<v Speaker 5>okay after you clean them up. But if the oil

0:38:54.880 --> 0:38:57.880
<v Speaker 5>gets into the animal's body, things get really bad and

0:38:57.920 --> 0:39:00.120
<v Speaker 5>you die instantly. And he was like, that's been my

0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:02.920
<v Speaker 5>task here in prison the entire time. I am in

0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:05.839
<v Speaker 5>this environment, but it is not inside of me. And

0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:08.560
<v Speaker 5>so from here until I'm out, I just have to

0:39:08.680 --> 0:39:11.920
<v Speaker 5>keep myself fortified and know that although it is all

0:39:11.960 --> 0:39:14.160
<v Speaker 5>around me, I can clean this off and it's gonna

0:39:14.200 --> 0:39:16.120
<v Speaker 5>be okay. It's not inside of me, so I'm not

0:39:16.160 --> 0:39:16.760
<v Speaker 5>gonna die.

0:39:17.719 --> 0:39:19.920
<v Speaker 4>All I can say is that I'm grateful and humbled

0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:22.400
<v Speaker 4>because when you're in prison, lifeile, parole, and it's like

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:25.560
<v Speaker 4>you're fighting with hope and it's hard, and you see

0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:28.680
<v Speaker 4>people with serious crimes that are guilty, that don't have

0:39:28.719 --> 0:39:31.319
<v Speaker 4>no remorse getting out doing less time than.

0:39:31.239 --> 0:39:33.400
<v Speaker 2>You and have a sentence to dine in prison.

0:39:33.560 --> 0:39:36.000
<v Speaker 4>And I just didn't think the day would come. I

0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:38.759
<v Speaker 4>lost my twenties, my thirties, my forties, I'm fifty years old.

0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:41.560
<v Speaker 4>But I have great people in my life and the

0:39:41.640 --> 0:39:43.920
<v Speaker 4>last six months and like being like a roller coaster

0:39:43.960 --> 0:39:46.480
<v Speaker 4>to me. And I was speaking to one of my

0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:49.960
<v Speaker 4>old attorneys, the one that got the DNA test, Mapple attorneys, like, Sonny,

0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:52.600
<v Speaker 4>you know what what kept you going all these years

0:39:52.640 --> 0:39:54.880
<v Speaker 4>in prison? Because it's two thousand and three years, like

0:39:54.880 --> 0:39:57.359
<v Speaker 4>my attorney, it's like, hope, Sonny, I used to talk

0:39:57.360 --> 0:39:59.399
<v Speaker 4>to you all the time, hope kept you and I said,

0:39:59.440 --> 0:40:01.680
<v Speaker 4>you know what, right, And so no matter how dark

0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:05.000
<v Speaker 4>things get in life, you gotta have hope. And that's

0:40:05.000 --> 0:40:07.360
<v Speaker 4>what pulled me through. Those are tools I'm using in

0:40:07.400 --> 0:40:09.279
<v Speaker 4>my life that are helping me and propelling me to

0:40:09.280 --> 0:40:09.720
<v Speaker 4>my future.

0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:11.640
<v Speaker 2>And that's what I'm gonna do. And I'm just content

0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:12.160
<v Speaker 2>and I'm.

0:40:12.040 --> 0:40:15.239
<v Speaker 4>Just thankful and grateful that chapter my life is over with.

0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:19.040
<v Speaker 4>And next chapter, next half the story book of my life,

0:40:19.440 --> 0:40:21.440
<v Speaker 4>it's a different story. I can rewrite the ending and

0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:22.359
<v Speaker 4>that's what I'm doing now.

0:40:27.760 --> 0:40:30.360
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen

0:40:30.400 --> 0:40:32.799
<v Speaker 1>to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one

0:40:32.800 --> 0:40:35.799
<v Speaker 1>week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for

0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our

0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:41.839
<v Speaker 1>production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as

0:40:41.840 --> 0:40:45.680
<v Speaker 1>my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliber.

0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:47.879
<v Speaker 1>The music in this production was supplied by three time

0:40:47.920 --> 0:40:51.000
<v Speaker 1>OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us

0:40:51.040 --> 0:40:53.920
<v Speaker 1>across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and

0:40:54.160 --> 0:40:57.120
<v Speaker 1>at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram

0:40:57.160 --> 0:41:00.359
<v Speaker 1>at it's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production Lava

0:41:00.400 --> 0:41:03.719
<v Speaker 1>for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One.

0:41:03.840 --> 0:41:06.280
<v Speaker 2>We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported

0:41:06.280 --> 0:41:07.600
<v Speaker 2>in this show are accurate.

0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:10.400
<v Speaker 4>The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in

0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:13.120
<v Speaker 4>this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect

0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:14.359
<v Speaker 4>those of Lava for Good