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Speaker 1: This episode of Wrongful Conviction includes discussion of sexual assault

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Speaker 1: and suicide. Please listen with caution and care. On November eighteenth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, a Georgia woman found a burglar

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Speaker 1: in her home who blindfolded and tied her down. He

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Speaker 1: bizarrely claimed to be an Islamic militant before completing the

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Speaker 1: burglary and a sexual assault. The victim described her attacker

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Speaker 1: as black, and she eventually chose a man named Sterling

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Speaker 1: Flint from a photo lineup. Separately, a man named Sonny

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Speaker 1: Baradia reported Sterling Flint for stealing a Chevy Tahoe and

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Speaker 1: a motorcycle, and while investigating that, the police found the

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Speaker 1: sexual assault victim's property in Sterling's house. But Sterling's girlfriend

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Speaker 1: was a former sheriff's deputy and they both said that

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Speaker 1: Sonny Baradia had asked him to hold the stolen items.

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Speaker 1: Even though Sonny wasn't black, the police chose to believe

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Speaker 1: that he was an Islamic militant. This is wrongful conviction.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this

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Speaker 1: and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early

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Speaker 1: and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction this story today.

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Speaker 1: First of all, it's going to make you want to

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Speaker 1: jump through your headset whatever you're listening to this on,

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Speaker 1: and strangle somebody, because well, I've been wanting to do

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Speaker 1: something like that ever since I first heard about it

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Speaker 1: years ago, and I'm so glad that Suddy Barati is

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Speaker 1: here with us today to tell it. But before I

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Speaker 1: introduced Studdy, I want to introduce my co host, Ben Bolan.

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Speaker 1: Many of you will know, he's one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: podcasters and probably one of yours as well, and we're

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Speaker 1: so thrilled to have him on this season of Rawful Conviction.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: This is and anger that we all share, like you

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Speaker 3: were saying, wanting to jump through the headset. We're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about some gross miscarriages of justice, but I

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Speaker 3: don't know, Jason, what better way to begin than to

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Speaker 3: speak with the man.

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Speaker 2: Himself, Sonny, Thanks so much for being here, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: And to help tell this story. We're also joined by

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Speaker 1: Sonny's pro bono attorney, Olivia Vigiletti.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, Thank you so much, and this story begins in

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Speaker 3: the metro Atlanta area.

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Speaker 4: Yes, suburbs. I grow up of Stone Mountain. I mean

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Speaker 4: growing up out a pretty good childhood. I mean I

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Speaker 4: had parents now're married, you know, red with things like holidays,

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Speaker 4: go camping, Daisy World, did all that growing up. I mean,

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Speaker 4: play sports, eleague, baseball, stuff like that, hanging out my

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Speaker 4: friends and stuff.

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Speaker 2: I mean that was it.

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Speaker 1: And by the time this happened in September two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one, Sonny was in his mid twenties.

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Speaker 4: The fall this happened, I was working. I was going

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Speaker 4: to school and go to gym Rediley. I was doing

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Speaker 4: that sheet metal work. I mean does a good job

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Speaker 4: because like at that time probably like seventy five dollars

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Speaker 4: now doing it. And he gave me opportunities to move

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Speaker 4: up in a job. And so for me at the

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Speaker 4: time that was good and was something stable.

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Speaker 1: Yeahs an hour, it was good money. Yes, this is

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Speaker 1: how you were able to afford a tahoe and some

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Speaker 1: other nice things. Right, So you're doing all right.

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Speaker 3: And you also had a side interest.

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Speaker 2: In cars vehicles.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yes, my little side thing was I like

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Speaker 4: to buy cars and fix the myself.

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Speaker 1: And Sunny was very generous with his talents, especially with

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Speaker 1: his close friends Ray Sewan and Keisha Pitts. While it

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Speaker 1: seems some acquaintances took advantage of Sonny's generosity, one of

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Speaker 1: them was a guy named Sterling Flint. But before Sterling

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Speaker 1: enters the story, a different friend who stayed in Beuford,

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Speaker 1: South Carolina, had asked to borrow Sonny's shabby tahoe.

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Speaker 4: I let a friend of mine use my car because

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Speaker 4: his car was in the shop. I'm like sure, just

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Speaker 4: like two three days a camp, and it ended up

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Speaker 4: being a breach of trust. Like when Friday came, it's

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Speaker 4: like a cell phone was cut off so he won't respond.

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Speaker 4: And I knew it was his mother's house in South Carolina,

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Speaker 4: so I got all his ex wife, got his mother's address,

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Speaker 4: and I called to Cab County Police explain what happened

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Speaker 4: to my vehicle. And I remember clearly being a Saturday,

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Speaker 4: November seventeenth, two thousand and one, I met a friend

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Speaker 4: of mine named Rayshawn's house exactly from Brooklyn, and so

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Speaker 4: I just to go check on his wife when he's

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Speaker 4: out of town in New York working and take his

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Speaker 4: wife's kids.

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Speaker 3: Out that night Sunny, his girlfriend Alitia Colbert and Rayshawn's wife, Kesha.

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Speaker 3: They all went out together with their kids for the

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Speaker 3: opening weekend of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, which

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Speaker 3: they watched to drive it now. They got home very

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Speaker 3: late around midnight.

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Speaker 4: So the next day being Sunday, which was a day

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Speaker 4: a crime. November eighteenth, two thousand and one. I'm at

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Speaker 4: my girlfriend's house. About ten o'clock, my cell phone rings

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Speaker 4: and it's a detective from Beauford County, South Carolina, and

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Speaker 4: he told me he has my vehicle in his impound

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Speaker 4: and I can pick it up Monday through Friday. So

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Speaker 4: that day I dropped my girlfriend's daughter to Mova's house.

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Speaker 4: I took my girlfriend, took her to Wendy's. I went

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Speaker 4: through the drive through day on cameras. I got her

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Speaker 4: something to and I dropped across street to a job

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Speaker 4: and then a comma from ray Sean, and I asked

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Speaker 4: him I'll pick up a socket set from his house

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Speaker 4: because I was working on his car out bought from

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Speaker 4: auction a while back. So I get the soaka set

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Speaker 4: a little left, like twelve o'clock and I go to

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Speaker 4: a friend of mine's house. I had a car park

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Speaker 4: there which I was working on and around four thirty

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Speaker 4: five o'clock I stopped by Ray Shawn's dropped a soakka

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Speaker 4: set off.

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Speaker 1: So Sonny's whereabouts were accounted for in the Metro Atlanta area,

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Speaker 1: over two hundred and fifty miles away from the scene

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Speaker 1: of the crime, which was in a Savannah suburb called Thunderbolt, Georgia. Now,

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Speaker 1: remember this happened not even ten weeks after nine to eleven,

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Speaker 1: when average Americans were just learning the names of militant

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Speaker 1: groups like Al Qaeda, and this fear of terrorist cells

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Speaker 1: operating in the US was at a fever pitch. So

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Speaker 1: with that backdrop, it's believed that an acquaintance of Sonny's

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Speaker 1: named Sterling Flint, committed a burglary in the early afternoon

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Speaker 1: of November eighteenth, two thousand and one.

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Speaker 5: Basically, this was a daytime burglary gone wrong. Sterling Flint

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Speaker 5: breaks into the house and he's stealing electronics and the

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Speaker 5: victim comes home, so he very quickly blindfolds her and

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Speaker 5: he tells her this very scary story about how he's

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Speaker 5: part of al Qaeda and he was sent here for her,

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Speaker 5: and she says in her original police statement that he

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Speaker 5: was pretending to be on the phone with someone else

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Speaker 5: who's maybe like instructing him what to do next, but

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Speaker 5: she knew that there was no one actually on the phone.

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Speaker 5: She could hear the dial tone, and he tells her

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Speaker 5: he needs to commit what he calls a fake rape

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Speaker 5: to make this other person happy, so that she's scared quiet,

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Speaker 5: and he's holding her at knife point and does some

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Speaker 5: assault of things to her.

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Speaker 2: Be aware.

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Speaker 3: The following language is graphic and maybe disturbing. This is

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Speaker 3: from the victim's statement. The victim says, this man tied

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Speaker 3: her up to the bed, performed oral sex on her, masturbated, ejaculated,

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Speaker 3: cleaned up after himself had then left with a number

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Speaker 3: of electronic items and a suitcase. When the victim freed

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Speaker 3: herself and removed the blindfold, she noticed it was two forty.

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Speaker 5: Pm, fortunately for some Before she gets blindfolded, she sees

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Speaker 5: he's wearing blue and white bat and gloves, and she

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Speaker 5: tells the police that but the GBI the Georgia labs

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Speaker 5: at the time were only testing fluids. The labs weren't

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Speaker 5: doing touch DNA testing, so they scan all the evidence

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Speaker 5: that they have. They don't find any fluids. They say

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Speaker 5: there's nothing to test, and that's really important.

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Speaker 1: We're going to hold onto that detail for later, But

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Speaker 1: at that time all they had to go on was

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Speaker 1: her description. Now, remember the attacker was partially masked, she

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Speaker 1: had only seen his eyes shortly before she was blindfolded,

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Speaker 1: and the victim was white, which made this a cross

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Speaker 1: racial identification situation, whether with the actual attacker as described

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Speaker 1: by the victim or with Sonny.

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Speaker 4: The victim's description of the guy was a black mail

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Speaker 4: bushy bras bushy musta's darskin ruskin face five six, one fifty.

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Speaker 4: I was like one eighty five. I just go to

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Speaker 4: gym like four days a week at a time. So

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Speaker 4: you're not saying one hundred fifty pounds. You're not said

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Speaker 4: I was a black mail.

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Speaker 3: After all, Sonny's ethnicity is Indian, which I guess if

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Speaker 3: you're a racist and you're all suit not good at

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Speaker 3: being racist, then that makes Sunny a member of al

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Speaker 3: Qaeda somehow. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. At this point,

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Speaker 3: they had made a composite sketch of a black man. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: Sunny was headed just a short distance north of Savannah, Georgia,

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Speaker 3: to Beauford County, South Carolina to get his car back. However,

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Speaker 3: the only friend he could scramble to come with him

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Speaker 3: to drive one of the vehicles back home she had

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Speaker 3: a problem with her license.

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Speaker 4: We finally get a Buford like five pm on November nineteenth,

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Speaker 4: and I picked my vehicle up and just randomly startling.

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Speaker 4: Flint called me at that time, and I've only seen

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Speaker 4: this coup once or twice. So he's like, where am

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Speaker 4: I at? I said him in Bufford and he's like,

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Speaker 4: were you like thirty minutes from me. It's like light

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Speaker 4: bulb goes off in a head. I was like, hey, man,

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Speaker 4: is any way you go on Atlanta soon? Because I

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Speaker 4: got a scirrel me took me to get my car,

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Speaker 4: but she has some type of issue of license.

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Speaker 2: I think she had a DUI or something.

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Speaker 4: So I didn't want to getting pulled over going back

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Speaker 4: to Atlanta driving behind me, you know, So I asked

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Speaker 4: me to drive my vehicle back and he's like sure.

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Speaker 4: So we met him and his girlfriend at a restaurant.

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Speaker 4: We ate dinner, and he left on his motorcycle and

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Speaker 4: I follow his girlfriend to his house. So when we

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Speaker 4: get to his house, she introduced me her roommate with

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Speaker 4: he was a Chatham County share steputy, and she tells

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Speaker 4: me she used to be a Chatham County shaf's deputy.

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Speaker 1: Now it appears that Sterling's girlfriend, Ashley Dold's affiliation to

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Speaker 1: law enforcement may have played a role in this case.

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Speaker 1: But at this point in the story, Sterling Flint parked

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Speaker 1: his motorcycle at home. He got into Chabby Tahoe and

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Speaker 1: was supposed to follow Sonny back to his friend's house

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Speaker 1: at Atlanta.

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Speaker 4: When we entered one of the interstates in Atlanta, my

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Speaker 4: vehicle disappeared. I don't see him on the highway no more.

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Speaker 4: But finally when I get to my friend's house, I'll

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Speaker 4: keep calling. His phone is not answering. Probably about three

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Speaker 4: o'clock in the morning, he calls. He says that he

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Speaker 4: stopped for gas and he ran into a friend of

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Speaker 4: his aid and seen in some yours and he'll beat in.

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Speaker 2: A few So she left the doornlock.

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Speaker 4: So I don't wake up, probably about seven o'clock, and

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Speaker 4: it's like, you know, you have that feeling like you

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Speaker 4: just know something's not right.

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Speaker 2: And so by eleven o'clock in the morning, he calls.

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Speaker 4: He says he stopped at his mom's house and he'll

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Speaker 4: beat in a few and I clearly looked at a.

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Speaker 2: Phone number on the call ide I wrote the number down. Well,

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Speaker 2: well I'm waiting. I'm waiting. He never comes.

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Speaker 4: So going into the next morning, I caught his mother's

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Speaker 4: house and I'm like asking if he's there, and she's

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Speaker 4: like no, and I said, my name's Sonny. I said,

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Speaker 4: your son has my vehicle. Can you ask him bring

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Speaker 4: it back by twelve o'clock noon. If he doesn't, I'm

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Speaker 4: report of stolen. So right before noon, I hear my

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Speaker 4: friend on the phone arguing with somebody and yelling and stuff.

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Speaker 4: So I asked what's going on. She's like, that's Sterling

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Speaker 4: and she's saying his threatening to kill her. So I

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Speaker 4: grabbed the phone. He said, it's going to kill my

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Speaker 4: family because he's got my home address, because I've got

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Speaker 4: mail in my car and is in kill mcgarthin and

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Speaker 4: kill me.

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Speaker 2: So I called a police.

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Speaker 3: Suddy made a police report that Sterling Flint had stolen

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Speaker 3: his Chevy Tahoe and made terroristic threats. Now, at some point,

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Speaker 3: the burglary and sexual assault victim viewed a photo lineup

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Speaker 3: and identified Sterling Flint as her attacker. So now Sterling

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Speaker 3: is wanted by Thunderbolt PD in Chatham County for terroristic

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Speaker 3: threats into Cab County, as well as in Clayton County

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Speaker 3: where he first made off with the Chevy Tahoe.

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Speaker 4: So this whole time, I'm calling Sterring. Finally answers, he says,

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Speaker 4: gonna run my truck off a cliff, gonna kill my family.

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Speaker 4: And I said, man, I work for everything I have,

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Speaker 4: and you got a motorcycle, it's like if that bike

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Speaker 4: is hot, and you mentioned the stolen And a couple

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Speaker 4: of days later there was a messed with my parents'

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Speaker 4: voicemail for me to call this Detective Underwood in Cobb

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Speaker 4: County and he asked for Sterling Flint and I'm like, yes,

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Speaker 4: that's the guy still my vehicles. And he's like, the

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Speaker 4: reason I came looking for your vehicles involved in a

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Speaker 4: burger in Cobb County and the residents came home, Sterling

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Speaker 4: Flint was in the house. He assaulted the guy fled

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Speaker 4: in a tahoe, which was my vehicle, so to report

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Speaker 4: the tag number. When he ran the tag, it showed

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Speaker 4: up in my name, but it also showed up it

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Speaker 4: was stolen. A week prior and goes, well, your vehicle

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Speaker 4: was in a high speed chase with Atlanta Pede last night.

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Speaker 4: Black Mail jumped out of the vehicle, fled on foot,

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Speaker 4: and my vehicle went down a hill hit the telephone pole.

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Speaker 4: He's like, they're looking for him now, so he asked

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Speaker 4: me to get in touch with him, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 4: is this girlfriend's phone number if that'll help.

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Speaker 1: So Detective Underwood called Chatham County shared Ashley Dole's phone number,

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Speaker 1: but they already knew her and they went looking for

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Speaker 1: the stolen motorcycle.

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Speaker 5: When the police show up to Sterling Flint's house, the

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Speaker 5: victims stolen items are inside of his house and we

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Speaker 5: know that they're her items because he stole some luggage

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Speaker 5: and I had her name on it, so we know

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Speaker 5: they're her items. And the batting gloves she describes to

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Speaker 5: the police are with the stolen items.

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Speaker 4: When he found his stuff at her house, she called

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Speaker 4: him on the phone and he tells her say, I

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Speaker 4: brought the stuff there.

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Speaker 5: Sterling Flint says, I am holding these items for Sonny Bradia.

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Speaker 4: I'merstaying his girlfriend was ex Chaman County. Shaf Stepani roommates

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Speaker 4: a Chatham County. Shaf Steppye telling a Thunderbolt police officer,

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Speaker 4: which is a Chatham County that I brought this stuff there.

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Speaker 4: Now the whole storyline changed from a blackmail to.

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Speaker 5: Me, it's kind of brilliant, right because he's like, Hey,

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Speaker 5: let me get out of this crap that I did,

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Speaker 5: and let me implicate this guy that's giving me trouble

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Speaker 5: for stealing his car. The police should have said, well,

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Speaker 5: that's absurd. That doesn't make sense. Sonny is the one

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Speaker 5: who sent us over here. Why would Sonny tell the police, hey,

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Speaker 5: go check out this guy when he's holding stolen items

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Speaker 5: for Sunny. It doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 3: Lost.

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Speaker 1: The victim had already identified sterling Flint from a photo array,

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Speaker 1: so this case literally came with instructions.

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Speaker 5: But when we're thinking about how to secure a conviction,

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Speaker 5: they only had the victims who was blindfolded for most

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Speaker 5: of it. They only had her identification. Well, if Sterling

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Speaker 5: Flint is willing to testify against Sonny, then now they

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Speaker 5: have two witnesses that would speak against Sonny, where there's

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Speaker 5: only maybe one witness that would speak against Sterling Flint.

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Speaker 3: But then the lead detective on the burglary and sexual

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Speaker 3: assault and thunderbolt. Detective Henry Trey Connors brought the victim

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Speaker 3: in to view a second photo lineup. This time Sterling

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Speaker 3: Flint wasn't even in it.

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Speaker 4: Every photo on a lineup was blurred and they will blackmails.

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Speaker 4: One guy had one eye and I was the only

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Speaker 4: clear photo on a lineup. She has circled photo number four,

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Speaker 4: which was me. Another lineup she circled Sterling Flint and

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Speaker 4: somebody else and so she identified three different people, but

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Speaker 4: one person did crime.

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Speaker 5: Which is a traumatized person who didn't get a good

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Speaker 5: look at the perpetrator. We're talking about crossracial identification. There's

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Speaker 5: a lot of research that showed is that all humans

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Speaker 5: of all races are worse at identifying strangers of other

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Speaker 5: races than they are strangers of their own race.

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Speaker 1: I think it one step further, Olivia, which is that

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Speaker 1: multiple studies have shown that, particularly in instances where someone

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Speaker 1: has either been a victim or a witness to a

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Speaker 1: violent crime, cross racial identification has been proven to be

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Speaker 1: less accurate than guessing, which means, as crazy as it sounds,

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Speaker 1: a person who wasn't even there, just by virtue of guessing,

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Speaker 1: would have a better chance of identifying the actual perpetrator

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Speaker 1: than somebody who was.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's understandable that she made that mistake, it's not

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Speaker 5: understandable that the police rolled with it.

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Speaker 4: So the next day, which was Friday, November thirty, if

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Speaker 4: I got arrest in this served me a warrant from bravery,

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Speaker 4: sexual assault actively to sodom and kidnapping. I'm laughing, thinking

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Speaker 4: as candid camera, like this some kind of sordid joke,

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Speaker 4: you know, But when they pulled the guns out on

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Speaker 4: knew this was serious and sex goes, you know why

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Speaker 4: I arrested you, and I'm like why he goes Ashley.

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Speaker 2: Which is Sterling Flint's girlfriend.

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Speaker 4: Next chers deputy, I arrest you because of what she said,

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Speaker 4: not because of what the victim said. I didn't know

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Speaker 4: what to think. They placed me under the wrist. He

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Speaker 4: said a crime happened in Thunderbolt. I've never heard this

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Speaker 4: time in my life. Had these boots on one and

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Speaker 4: as like it's going to be a long time.

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Speaker 2: Before season boots agin. I never forget that.

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Speaker 3: Sunny couldn't bond out and spent about a year and

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Speaker 3: a half in pre trialed attention while Sterling Flint, the

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Speaker 3: man whose whereabouts were unknown during the crime, The man

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Speaker 3: who was fending off several other burglary charges as well

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Speaker 3: as a charge for Sonny stolen vehicle and a motorcycle.

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Speaker 3: The guy who was originally identified by the victim and

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Speaker 3: had her belongings. He was able to shift the blame

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Speaker 3: onto Sonny, and he appeared to have everyone's help in

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Speaker 3: doing so.

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Speaker 5: Sterling Flint took a plea to receiving stolen property right

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Speaker 5: because that's his story that he received these things from Sonny.

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Speaker 5: As far as I know, that's the deal he got

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Speaker 5: to testify against Sonny. Of course, there's these other separate

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Speaker 5: crimes in a separate county, and so he was working

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Speaker 5: on that. He is, actually, if you can believe it,

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Speaker 5: a jailhouse informant in another Georgia Innocence Project case where

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Speaker 5: he cut a deal to completely fabricate a story against

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Speaker 5: another man.

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Speaker 1: And that man's name is Eric Hurd. Now, over twenty

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Speaker 1: percent of the first two hundred and fifty DNA exonerations

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Speaker 1: in history involved the use of jail house informants, which

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Speaker 1: isn't hard to believe considering how much these jailhouse snitches

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Speaker 1: or informants have to gain from there, and said device testimony.

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Speaker 1: But it appears that the lead detective had a motivation

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Speaker 1: to ignore this more compelling suspect, instead choosing to pursue

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Speaker 1: what was an impossible narrative.

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Speaker 4: We go to my plumbing hearing and the detectives. His

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Speaker 4: old events were when I came to Savannah to pick

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Speaker 4: my vehicle up from the impound. He said, I did

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Speaker 4: all that Sunday record, show all my vehicles an impound Sunday.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even have my vehicle that Sunday. I came

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Speaker 2: to Savannah that.

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Speaker 4: Monday, and then we did a video audio statement in

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Speaker 4: front of an attorney and he's saying my account for

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Speaker 4: that day, and I'm like, look, these are my witnesses.

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Speaker 4: I said, I went through Wedndays that morning to have cameras.

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Speaker 4: I went through this quick trip gas station to have cameras.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna be substantiate. These are my witnesses. He didn't

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Speaker 4: care about none of that. In his mind. I'm a Muslim,

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Speaker 4: I come did this and he goes that. He called

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Speaker 4: home ob security said this guy's terrorists. You need to

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Speaker 4: check on him. This is literally what the guy said.

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Speaker 3: So it seems that this detective, Henry Trey Carter's, well,

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Speaker 3: he thought that Sonny's complexion made him a better fit

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Speaker 3: for Al Qaeda than Sterling and Flint. This still wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have been acceptable if Sunny was Muslim or Arab, But

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Speaker 3: to make matters even more absurd, Sunny is an Indian

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Speaker 3: American Evangelical Christian, not a black man, as the victim

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Speaker 3: had described to this detective.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the lead detective got arrest before my trial on

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Speaker 4: something else he had going on. The original police statement disappeared,

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Speaker 4: which before my name was put into it, the victim

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Speaker 4: description of the guy was a blackmail The photo lineups disappeared.

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Speaker 5: Trial council's whole strategy was to show the two photo

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Speaker 5: arrays where the victim identifies Sterling, Flint and one other

383
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Speaker 5: black man. She does a second photo array where Sterling

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Speaker 5: Flint is not a part of it, and she identifies Sonny.

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Speaker 5: He's going to show how ridiculously dissimilar these people look

386
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Speaker 5: and that she identified everyone, and it destroys the case.

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Speaker 5: And that's his whole plan. Well, he doesn't get the

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Speaker 5: photo arrays before trial. He expects the prosecution to show

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Speaker 5: up with the photo arrays at trial and they don't.

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Speaker 4: He's seen them, but DA doesn't have a copy of

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Speaker 4: When I was testifying the trial attorney, he stated, like

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Speaker 4: on his little ad lib starts on out of lineups,

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Speaker 4: how I was only clear a photo, that every photo

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Speaker 4: on a lineup was blurred, and they will blackmails.

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Speaker 2: He said.

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Speaker 4: He talked to the chief police at that time and

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Speaker 4: he goes chief police said that he laughed about it.

398
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Speaker 4: He's like, this case is nonsensical. Just the things didn't

399
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:09,880
Speaker 4: add up.

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Speaker 5: Trial Council's whole strategy is gone. So he, with no preparation,

401
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,679
Speaker 5: calls alibi witnesses to the stand, who were just thinking

402
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 5: they're going to court to sit in the gallery and

403
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 5: support Sonny. So he's calling Sonny's girlfriend, Sonny's friend to

404
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,359
Speaker 5: the stand, and they're trying to remember dates and things

405
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 5: off the top of their heads. They're not prepared.

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00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 3: If you remember, Sonny and his alibi witnesses had seen

407
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Speaker 3: Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Stone on November seventeenth, the

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Speaker 3: second day of its release in the US.

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Speaker 5: They get the date wrong of when they go to

410
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Speaker 5: the movies, Sunny's girlfriend says, we took the kids to

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Speaker 5: see the Harry Potter movie on this date. It wasn't

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Speaker 5: this other date. Well, the movie wasn't even out yet.

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Speaker 1: Misremembering this event as from a prior weekend appears to

414
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Speaker 1: have damaged the rest of Sonny's alibi as far as

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Speaker 1: when he picked up and dropped off the socket wrenches

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Speaker 1: with Keisha Pitts, so we know.

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Speaker 5: Oh, it's just a mix up. A's because as they

418
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Speaker 5: weren't prepared, because he wasn't prepared, and I think that

419
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 5: this case is so ridiculous. He kind of thought it

420
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 5: would resolve itself, but that's not an attorney strategy. You

421
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 5: have to be over prepared. He didn't investigate the alibi

422
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 5: any more than the police did.

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Speaker 3: Sunny's cell phone records would have placed him in Atlanta.

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Speaker 3: The Wendy's security cam at eleven am would have left

425
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Speaker 3: Sonny with insufficient time to make the four hour one

426
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Speaker 3: way trip to Thunderbolt in order to commit the crime

427
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 3: before two forty pm. And it would have been helpful

428
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Speaker 3: if the batting gloves had been tested for touch DNA,

429
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,160
Speaker 3: but at that time testing of this nature wasn't even

430
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Speaker 3: being done by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. And then

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Speaker 3: Sterling Flint took the stand.

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Speaker 5: So Sterling Flint at this time had been convicted of

433
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 5: committing two other burglaries in Sunny's Tahoe, daytime burglaries, very

434
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 5: similar crimes. He does not come prepared with the police reports,

435
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 5: and he thinks at the time that their open charges

436
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 5: against Sterling Flint. He doesn't realize he took a pleat

437
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 5: he's already been convicted of those. So he asked sterling

438
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 5: Flint on the stand, well, isn't it true that you

439
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 5: have these pending charges of burglaries? And sterling Flint says, no,

440
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 5: that's not true. They've been disposed of. Well, that's a

441
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 5: tricky way to say it, but yeah, he is right.

442
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 5: It's not true that he had pending charges. He had

443
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 5: convictions for similar crimes, and the attorney didn't come in

444
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 5: prepared to say, look, this guy was stealing things out

445
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 5: of people's homes in Sonny's.

446
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: Tahoe, and without all of this crucial preparation, Sonny didn't

447
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: have a chance in hell. When the victim took the stand.

448
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 4: When she got an oath, she goes a friend emailer

449
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 4: article by the crime, Yeah, color photo me in the paper.

450
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 4: She satisfied, and she's been looking at that photo every day.

451
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 4: She goes those were the eyes. I got brown eyes.

452
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 4: He has brown eyes. I just couldn't believe it, Like

453
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 4: my heart dropped because I was adamant, like she's going

454
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 4: to see me say hey to Saint the guy.

455
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 3: Add the district attorney leaned into the racism of the

456
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 3: time to further seal Sonny's fate.

457
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 4: I remember clearly being a trial to DH she goes,

458
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 4: am I a Muslim? And I said no, I said,

459
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 4: I just go to this church here. If you choose

460
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 4: be a Muslim, that's fine. I respect that by faith.

461
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 2: I'm Christian. It's like, no, you're a Muslim. And I'm like,

462
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 2: I'm not a Muslim. And it's on my child transcript.

463
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: She's telling me I'm a Muslim.

464
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 4: And you know how the jury looked at the post

465
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 4: ninet eleven, I get convicted and the judge said life

466
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 4: file parole.

467
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 2: That's the first of my life. My knees ever shook.

468
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 4: It's like you're trying to process this like this is

469
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 4: a nightmare that just want to stop here. I'm in

470
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 4: prison for something I did not do and they want

471
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 4: me to die. How are you supposed to process that.

472
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 4: You know, prison is a violence. I mean it's like

473
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 4: a fight of flight mode in a jungle when you

474
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 4: have to survive and you as like you have shape

475
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 4: you put in a jungle full alliance, I mean, what

476
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 4: are you supposed to do? I was a hate state prism,

477
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 4: Like two thousand five through fourteen. The captain of the

478
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: prison was putting hits on inmateson officers, so you understand,

479
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 4: like this is general. Not everybody knew this. Like he'd

480
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 4: bring like the contraband in give it to this gang.

481
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 4: This gang would take him off. He'd goes have this

482
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 4: officerc confiscated to give to another gang. And like it

483
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: was so wild. And my officer was saying they were

484
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 4: scared to come into dormitories because the inmates rano prison.

485
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 4: They would literally they might kidnap somebody from one building,

486
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 4: have them in another building, calling their family, threaten to

487
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 4: kill them if they don't send him money. So this

488
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 4: is the environment you're in and you gotta survive. It's

489
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 4: not only inmates. You have to look officers too. And

490
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 4: like twenty eighteen, I went in a dormitory also open

491
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 4: the doors. Two officers right there and a guy comes

492
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 4: to me on a knife about a foot long. The

493
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 4: oss is looking at and they got tastes on them.

494
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 4: They're just looking like with a mousa jar. I'm like

495
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 4: forty something years old. This guy's like half my age.

496
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 4: I can't run and so I'm trying to fight this guy,

497
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 4: and finally, by fluke, I pushed him and he fell

498
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 4: and I got on top of him. The office came,

499
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 4: throw me against the wall, handcuffed me, and that's when

500
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 4: I saw a blood all of me.

501
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: I got stabbed twelve times.

502
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 4: Jesus, I didn't even know i'd got stab but this

503
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 4: is Georgia prisons, like a life is not valued, and

504
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 4: I just I'm okay. I made it through that. It

505
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 4: was a nightmare through it all. I lost my father,

506
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 4: I lost people deed to me, and you see yours,

507
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 4: your life go by, You see your youth go by,

508
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 4: to prim you life go by.

509
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: Winning his freedom was an urgent matter that took just

510
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: short of twenty three long years.

511
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 5: In Georgia. The first step after your conviction is called

512
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 5: a motion for a new trial, and so it's basically

513
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 5: an appeal that goes back to that same court, that

514
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 5: same judge. So that was filed right after Sunny's conviction,

515
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 5: and it was amended by Sonny's appellata attorney to add

516
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 5: just a mountain of claims for him, and.

517
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 3: Many of these claims stem from the ineffectiveness of his

518
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 3: trial counsel. This is when the batting gloves come into play.

519
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 3: Let's remember Georgia Bureau of Investigation only DNA tested biological fluids.

520
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: These gloves needed touch DNA testing, meaning they needed to

521
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 3: lift skin cells from inside the gloves, and Sonny's appelleat

522
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 3: attorney got this testing approved.

523
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: In two thousand and four.

524
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 4: My attorney goes, hey, are you sure you want to

525
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 4: get DNA tested in these gloves because if he comes

526
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 4: back showing a shoot, that's a found nail in the coffin.

527
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 4: And I wrote him a letter in big words, I

528
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 4: am innocent, and I'm mailed it to him.

529
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,479
Speaker 5: And so when Sonny's a Pellet attorney gets this super

530
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 5: cutting edge test and he has to send it to

531
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 5: a lab in California because he can't find anyone locally

532
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 5: that's doing it, Sonny's a Pellet attorney believes in him

533
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 5: so wholeheartedly he offers to forego his own pay in

534
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 5: the case to pay for the DNA testing, and the

535
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 5: court takes him up on it. He gets the DNA results.

536
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 5: They exclude sonny.

537
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 4: But also on the outside of gloves because the victim goes,

538
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 4: I covered the mouthfoot of gloves. He said, there's a

539
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 4: female DNA and outside of gloves. They got a coke

540
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 4: can from the victim's house. He tested in the same

541
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 4: female denis and coke can is on the outside of gloves.

542
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 4: So he recommends that for a profile the victims DNA

543
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 4: get taken as well as sterling flints.

544
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 2: The State of checks to it.

545
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: So he moves forward with the only new evidence that

546
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: he's got.

547
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 5: However, the way he raised the new evidence was that

548
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 5: the trial attorney should have gotten this test done. Well,

549
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 5: that's not really true. The trial attorney can't be expected

550
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 5: to get a test done that the Georgia lab won't

551
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 5: even do. He does at the end throw in like

552
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 5: or maybe this is new evidence. But when you raise

553
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 5: a new evidence claim, you have to make a really

554
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 5: specific showing. And he doesn't make that showing. And he

555
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 5: gets a hearing on this motion for a new trial,

556
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 5: so he gets to put some evidence on the record.

557
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 5: And so even though this evidence that Sonny was not

558
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 5: part of this crime. This DNA evidence has existed since

559
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 5: like two thousand and three. The way that it was

560
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 5: raised procedurally posed a problem. It's not the right claim

561
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 5: because he actually went so far above and beyond what

562
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 5: an attorney can be expected to do to get this

563
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 5: test done. So we can't say the trial council was

564
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 5: deficient for not doing the same thing.

565
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 3: The courts concluded that the attorney was not at fault,

566
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 3: so even though the new evidence proved Sonny's innocence, this

567
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: claim failed.

568
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 5: The next thing that what happens is the Appella attorney

569
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,479
Speaker 5: starts partnering with the Georgia Innosonce Project around twenty eleven

570
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 5: to file what in Georgia is called an extraordinary motion

571
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 5: for new trial the post conviction litigation avenue in the

572
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 5: state of Georgia, where you have new evidence that was

573
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 5: not available to you before. And one of the bases

574
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 5: for this new evidence is that in twenty twelve they

575
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 5: were able to get a codis hit for sterling flint

576
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 5: on the gloves. But Matt goes up to the Supreme

577
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 5: Court of Georgia and they say trial council should have

578
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 5: gotten this test done. If you got it done a

579
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 5: year later, trial council should have done it without really

580
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 5: appreciating what he went through to get the test done.

581
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 4: So you hold to be accountable in two thousand and

582
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 4: three for a test that the crime lab didn't even

583
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 4: use twenty eleven.

584
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: It also kind of sounds like the reverse course on

585
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 1: the earlier ruling that trial council was not ineffective. Now

586
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: they're saying that trial council could have done this, but

587
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter since it's procedurally barred. So after this defeat,

588
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: Sunny's attorneys needed to regroup. In the interim, at Old

589
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: did an interview.

590
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 4: She did an interview called Shadow of Doubt we Living

591
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 4: the Life on YouTube and originally the Stolen Goods. She

592
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 4: goes that when my boyfriend picked up from work, he

593
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 4: had a UHUL trailer and he had a burgeran Cobb

594
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 4: County involvement, an U haul trailer, and they parked the

595
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 4: U all trailer at her sister's house and her sister

596
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 4: stay a stone's throw from a victim's house. Recalls a

597
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 4: couple days later, says, hey, can you go to your

598
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 4: sister's house, go get the stuff out of you haul

599
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 4: and put it your house, and that's the victim stolen goods.

600
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 2: She covered up for a boyfriend.

601
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 4: And she went on TV years ago said when it

602
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 4: found the stuff, he told Race I brought stuff there.

603
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 4: So she believing what he said, told a police that.

604
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 4: Then the whole storyline changes. So does one police officer

605
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 4: telling another police officer, Hey, who's wordy?

606
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 3: Gonna take just one officer to another. And she said

607
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 3: the stolen goods came from Sonny. And then the victim

608
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 3: viewed another photo lineup. This one did not contain Sterling

609
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 3: Flint and only had one clear photo Sonnings. But it

610
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 3: doesn't even have to be that devious for cross racial

611
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 3: misidentification to occur. Consider the case of Ronald Cotton and

612
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: Jennifer Thompson.

613
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 4: I came across a book in twenty sixteen picking Cotton,

614
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 4: and it was about a guy named Ronald Cotton. Said

615
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 4: he was convicted of crime, he was innocent of the victim.

616
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 4: Jennifer Thompson said she was sure that it was him

617
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 4: the eyes and this, and that I could empatize with

618
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 4: that because of my case.

619
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: That's exactly what happened.

620
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: Recovered the case on the podcast and Jennifer Thompson was

621
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: called the perfect witness. She was sober, she was awake,

622
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: a black man broke into her home and brutally assaulted

623
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: her for twenty five minutes, and her whole being was

624
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: wrapped up. As she describes it, in studying every feature because,

625
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: as she says, I get the chills thinking about it.

626
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: If I survived, I was going to make sure that

627
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: I could identify this man so no one would ever

628
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: have to suffer the way I was. And sure enough,

629
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: they picked up mister Cotton not too long after this

630
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: horrible crime occurred, and she identified him with absolute certainty.

631
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: Of course, he was convicted, and eleven years later there

632
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: was another guy in the prison that people were talking about.

633
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: He's the one who actually committed the crime. It turned

634
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: out he looked very much like mister Cotton, and DNA

635
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: ultimately proved that he in fact was the perpetrator, and

636
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: he had gone on to commit many other horrible crimes

637
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: by the time he was arrested, and.

638
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 5: Just a small plug to defense attorneys and prosecutors. She

639
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 5: founded an organization called Healing Justice. And if you're in

640
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 5: a situation like this where you need to approach a

641
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 5: victim and you're trying not to do more harm, You're

642
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 5: trying not to impose more trauma. Her organization will help

643
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 5: you figure out how to do that the best way.

644
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 5: So I've used that many times, and it's so important

645
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 5: because this problem is not an individual's problem. It's a

646
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 5: systemic problem.

647
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: It's a great organization. And I'm a proud donor. And

648
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: Jennifer as one of my heroes, as is Ronald Cotton.

649
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: And important to note they became very close friends. As

650
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: they wrote picking Cotton, which is such an incredible name.

651
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: They've done sixty minutes together, They've been on wrongful conviction together.

652
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: They've toured the country giving presentations to lost students and

653
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: prosecutors and anyone that will listen to them about the

654
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: unreliability of eyewitness identification. And Sonny, if memory serves me,

655
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: she brought your case to my attention.

656
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 4: And yes, So I got in touch with her on

657
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 4: Facebook and she's like, I'm on team Sonny.

658
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: So she was my life readily for me. She's one

659
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: of my mentors. She really is. I try to hang

660
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: myself years ago. I did, I actually did.

661
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 4: I didn't succeed, just went through some things, but It's

662
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 4: like Jennifer was like one of people i'd always go

663
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 4: to kind of give me reality check. She was always

664
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 4: blunt with me and honest with me. She's like, I'm

665
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 4: gonna beat it the gates when you get out, and

666
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 4: it's like these things manifested, they really did.

667
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: She kept a word.

668
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: She's kind of like an angel. She has a very

669
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: angelus quality.

670
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: Jennifer.

671
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: If you're listening and you're blushing, you should be because

672
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 1: we have so much respect for you here. So okay,

673
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: So then along comes through other angel, Olivia.

674
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 4: Right.

675
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 5: I was working for the Georgia Innocence Project. Sonny was

676
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 5: my first client. So even after I left the Georgia

677
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 5: Ennosonce project. It's always hard to leave a job, leave

678
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 5: your case, but I couldn't leave Sonny. So I have

679
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 5: stayed with him as pro bono council for the past

680
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 5: three years. And so when we filed an amended habeas

681
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 5: petition in twenty twenty two, all of our claims they

682
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 5: were all based on ineffective assistance of appellate Council for

683
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 5: the way he raised the claims. And I want to

684
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 5: just be really clear, ineffective assistance of council doesn't mean

685
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 5: bad attorney. This appellate Council did an amazing job getting

686
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 5: the DNA, very vigorous advocate, and still it was constitutionally defective.

687
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 5: So we were granted an evidentiary hearing in the middle

688
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 5: of twenty twenty three where we put all this evidence

689
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 5: on the record that finally clarified what these procedural mistakes were.

690
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 5: And Sunny's appellat attorney was very helpful at the hearing.

691
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 5: He explained that he just made a lot of mistakes.

692
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: In addition, many witnesses testified in support of Sonny's innocence claim,

693
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: including Ashley Dold.

694
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: She testified that I wasn't there.

695
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 4: My ex girlfriend test fied the one who got confused

696
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 4: at trial, and one of my witnesses died over the.

697
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 3: Years, that was Kisha Pitts. But her husband Ray Shawan

698
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 3: took the stand in hestead.

699
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 4: He said he remembers I called him that morning asked

700
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 4: I pick of soakkasent from his house, and Kesha called

701
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 4: him and he's like, Sonny came picked it up, and

702
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 4: then when I came back that evening she called to

703
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 4: Sonny dropped the stuff off.

704
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: And this established a timeframe which made it impossible for

705
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: an eight hour round trip to Thunderbolt, Georgia, a timeframe

706
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: that your trial counsel didn't prepare enough to even do

707
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: a rudimentary job of laying it out.

708
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 5: And I will say that trial attorney did testify and

709
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 5: he wept on the stand. He told us he thinks

710
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 5: about Sonny all the time. This case keeps him up

711
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 5: at night. He always believed in Sonny. He just was

712
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 5: so overconfident because the case was so ridiculous and had

713
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 5: a lot of regret. But of course we can't not

714
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 5: prepare just because the case is ridiculous. And in twenty

715
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 5: twenty four, Judge Tate out of Gwinnett County granted Sonny's

716
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 5: habeas petition, which was not appealed by the Attorney General,

717
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 5: so that overturned his conviction.

718
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 3: Sonny was transferred to jail prior to his release, but

719
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 3: the date of his actual release still remained unclear.

720
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 5: That morning, I was like, look, the paperwork's not done.

721
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 5: I don't know when you're getting out. We didn't think

722
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 5: he was getting out.

723
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 2: That day I was in a county jail.

724
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 4: But remember I go up to intake and she told

725
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 4: officer like gave my property and stuff. So I had

726
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 4: certain books like Long Walked, Freedom of my Bible, some

727
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 4: letters I kept over the years, and these things meant

728
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 4: something to me. So they're like in a little clear

729
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 4: trash bag. So she tells us to dress me out.

730
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 4: So I'm still like the reality is not sitting in,

731
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 4: like something's gonna happen, Like they're gonna say, hey, we're

732
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 4: making a mistake of something. She told me like, hey,

733
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 4: you got to go out this door. So when I

734
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,479
Speaker 4: pressed the button, the door open, it's a parking lot.

735
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 4: So it's me, this trash bag of books and a

736
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 4: parking lot.

737
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: So I run.

738
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 4: I forrest gumped at that guy was running out the

739
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 4: drunning down his driveway. That's how I was running. I

740
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 4: didn't know where I was going. I was just running.

741
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 4: I said, I got to get on the phone, somebody

742
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 4: to call Olivia. So I ran one way and it's

743
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 4: like a concrete plant. I'm like, what this is the

744
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 4: wrong way. Then I'm running along a tree line, so

745
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 4: I'm like looking back, saying, hey, they might realize we

746
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 4: made a mistake.

747
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: Lay this guy out. So I keep looking back every second. Paranol.

748
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 4: My bag of books is like coming apart, like holes

749
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 4: in it, and I'm trying to hold these books together.

750
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 4: And finally I get to this little place and I'm

751
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 4: like yelling, cause somebody help me. And a guy's like,

752
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 4: how can I help you. I said, Hey, my name

753
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 4: is Sonny Barata. You can google me.

754
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: They just let me out of jail. I was innocent.

755
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 4: I've been in prison twenty something years. I just need

756
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 4: to call him, my attorney, so to come get me in.

757
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 4: He's like, what's the phone number? Sort of laughing, he cold.

758
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 5: And then I get this random number call and I

759
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 5: know it's Sonny, and I pick up the phone and

760
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 5: he said, they let me out. They let me out,

761
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 5: They let me out. I don't know where I am.

762
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 5: And then a man gets on the phone, gives me

763
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 5: the address and hangs up on me. And that's it.

764
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 5: That's all the information I get. I passed the information

765
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 5: along to someone closer and she said, why is he

766
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 5: at this address? And I was like, I don't know.

767
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 4: And by the time I got home, Oliviy was at

768
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 4: my mother's house. Came from Detroit, and Jennifer Thompson came

769
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 4: from Chapel Hill. She was at my mom's house. Amazing

770
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 4: so I was like, it's such a highlight, just like

771
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 4: a mount top experience. The last couple of months, I mean,

772
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 4: just trying to find my place right now, it's still

773
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 4: hard to process at all. I don't understand a purpose

774
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 4: why I went through it, but it's like at the

775
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 4: same time, I like to help people. Me and Jennifer

776
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 4: Thompson talked about it, and she was like, maybe I

777
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 4: could start some time Healing Justice thing in Georgia. So

778
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 4: that's maybe one thing I'm looking at. But I had

779
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 4: not imporous of having a voice because so many years

780
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 4: I didn't have a voice, and I have a voice now,

781
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 4: so I want to use my voice to help people

782
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 4: that don't have a voice.

783
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: If anyone would like to talk to Sunny about public speaking,

784
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: and I really hope you will, then we're going to

785
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: link his instagram in the episode description so you can

786
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: reach out. And Sunday's Instagram is at sun B nineteen

787
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: forty four. I'm gonna spell it out. That's so and

788
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: letter B like Sunny Varietia So son B nineteen forty four.

789
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: We're also going to link to Healing Justice and the

790
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: episode that Jennifer Thompson and Ronald Cotton did together.

791
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 3: And since the recording of this interview, on May sixteenth,

792
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, Sunny's charges were officially dismissed.

793
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 4: The feeling itself was exhilarating. I mean, I've never had

794
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 4: a feeling like that. It's like, I'll wait off you

795
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 4: and Jennifer Thompson of Healing Justice was there, my attorney

796
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 4: Olivia Vigiletti, Christina Cribs, Noah Pines, and the George Andoson's project,

797
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 4: and my mom and it was just amazing because I

798
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 4: couldn't have made it in this journey about these people.

799
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 4: After my dismissal, they had like a little pot luck

800
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 4: type party and my Girlfriendjoe down to Florida, so I've

801
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 4: been at Panama City Beach since Sunday and needed this

802
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 4: much needed.

803
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 3: We were all so happy for you, while of course

804
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 3: wishing that this never happened in the first place.

805
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: And with that, we're going to go to closing arguments

806
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: where first I think we thank both of you for

807
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: joining us, and then I'm just gonna turn my microphone

808
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: off with my headphones on and just kicked back in

809
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: my chair and listen for you to share anything you

810
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: feel is left to be said, We're going to start

811
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: with Olivia and then Sonny, you take us off into

812
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: the sunset.

813
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 5: Wow, that is fun, and I feel very put on

814
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 5: the spot. I would like to tell a story of Sonny,

815
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 5: because it's of course never a requirement that your client

816
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 5: be exceptional and incredible. But Sonny has been lead counsel

817
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 5: on this case his entire life, and the whole time

818
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 5: he's been fighting this and has taught me a lot

819
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 5: of things at every turn. And we were talking one time,

820
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 5: kind of dreaming about the day Sonny might get out

821
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 5: of prison, and I asked him how he was preparing

822
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 5: to transition back into the world, and he told me

823
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 5: something that I thought was really random at first, but

824
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 5: connected it back. He said, do you remember in the

825
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 5: nineties when they would always show the oil spills on

826
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 5: TV and you'd always see like oil covered pictures of

827
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 5: ducks and stuff. But then they show that like you

828
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 5: just wipe them down with some dawn and then they're

829
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 5: okay after you clean them up. But if the oil

830
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 5: gets into the animal's body, things get really bad and

831
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 5: you die instantly. And he was like, that's been my

832
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 5: task here in prison the entire time. I am in

833
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 5: this environment, but it is not inside of me. And

834
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 5: so from here until I'm out, I just have to

835
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 5: keep myself fortified and know that although it is all

836
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 5: around me, I can clean this off and it's gonna

837
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 5: be okay. It's not inside of me, so I'm not

838
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 5: gonna die.

839
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 4: All I can say is that I'm grateful and humbled

840
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 4: because when you're in prison, lifeile, parole, and it's like

841
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 4: you're fighting with hope and it's hard, and you see

842
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 4: people with serious crimes that are guilty, that don't have

843
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 4: no remorse getting out doing less time than.

844
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 2: You and have a sentence to dine in prison.

845
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 4: And I just didn't think the day would come. I

846
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 4: lost my twenties, my thirties, my forties, I'm fifty years old.

847
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 4: But I have great people in my life and the

848
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 4: last six months and like being like a roller coaster

849
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 4: to me. And I was speaking to one of my

850
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 4: old attorneys, the one that got the DNA test, Mapple attorneys, like, Sonny,

851
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 4: you know what what kept you going all these years

852
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 4: in prison? Because it's two thousand and three years, like

853
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 4: my attorney, it's like, hope, Sonny, I used to talk

854
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 4: to you all the time, hope kept you and I said,

855
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 4: you know what, right, And so no matter how dark

856
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 4: things get in life, you gotta have hope. And that's

857
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 4: what pulled me through. Those are tools I'm using in

858
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 4: my life that are helping me and propelling me to

859
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:09,720
Speaker 4: my future.

860
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm gonna do. And I'm just content

861
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 2: and I'm.

862
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 4: Just thankful and grateful that chapter my life is over with.

863
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 4: And next chapter, next half the story book of my life,

864
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 4: it's a different story. I can rewrite the ending and

865
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 4: that's what I'm doing now.

866
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen

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Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one

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00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for

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Speaker 1: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our

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Speaker 1: production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as

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Speaker 1: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliber.

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Speaker 1: The music in this production was supplied by three time

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Speaker 1: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us

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Speaker 1: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and

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Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram

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00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: at it's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production Lava

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Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One.

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Speaker 2: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported

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Speaker 2: in this show are accurate.

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Speaker 4: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in

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Speaker 4: this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect

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Speaker 4: those of Lava for Good