1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Well well, well, 2 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: looks like it's time for another con job. Welcome to 3 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History. I'm Ben. He's in a long conn or 4 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: a short con. It's a big con. It's a you know. 5 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I didn't bring this up 6 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: with you guys yet, but I have a question for you, 7 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: super producer, Casey Pegrum. I'm listening. Do you guys think 8 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: that we do stories about con artists often enough that 9 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: we should get a sound cue for like a con job? 10 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: And if so, what would it be? Well, there's the 11 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: there's the class sick done done done, which seems like 12 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: a dastardly kind of sound effect, you know, like a 13 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: snidely whiplash type figure. There's a money sound to, like 14 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: a change register or something, you know, a stack these 15 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: sound effects. Baby, sure, uh yeah. Cons Today's episodes about 16 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: particularly uh dastardly um and effective con artist who went 17 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: by the nickname Big Bertha. You know, it comes to 18 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: my mind when I think of Big Bertha. I don't 19 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: know circuses, well, circuses, but I don't know case if 20 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: you remember this, but arcades of my youth, there was 21 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: a machine called Big Bertha, or you throw like a 22 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: ball into this like puppety large woman's mouth, kind of 23 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: a cob and very bizarre. And I never played it 24 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: because it just didn't seem like much fun. Yeah, it's 25 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: all coming back to me. It was always in the 26 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: back of the arcade, actually the ski ball machines, because 27 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: it was one of those big, you know, robotic type machines. 28 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: You guys have messed up childhood. Well that's accurate, but yeah, 29 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: that's what I think of. And I was not aware 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: of the legacy of Bertha Hayman. Yes, So nowadays the 31 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: term big Bertha is used to describe an example of 32 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: a piece of equipment. Right. In World War One, there 33 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: was this huge cannon that the German forces used, Uh, 34 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: this would destroy otherwise invincible forts, and it was called 35 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: big Bertha. And now there are some other things named 36 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: big Bertha. Right, the world's largest earth moving machine is 37 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: called big Bertha, like a back ho uh times a million, yeah, 38 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: a mega dozer. And in the eighteen hundreds, big Bertha 39 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: specifically described this woman who is known as the Confidence 40 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: Queen or Bertha Hayman. She was born Bertha Schlessinger in 41 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: Prussia and She came to the US in eighteen seventy eight. 42 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 1: We're getting a lot of the US from a interesting 43 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 1: book by a guy named Thomas Byrne, Professional Criminals of America. 44 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: She married twice, once in New York and then again 45 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, and her name Hayman comes from her second husband, 46 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: John Hayman. According to all the reports of the time, 47 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: she was not you know, your stereotypical beauty queen or supermodel, 48 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: but she was incredibly intensely charismatic. Yeah, it's true, ben Um. 49 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: She played on people's uh baser, you know, qualities like 50 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: hubris and greed and just general awfulness kinda. So it's 51 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: interesting she almost becomes something of like a folk hero 52 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: in my mind anyway, where she kind of gives people 53 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: their come upance, because if you're exhibiting those behaviors and 54 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: maybe you deserve to have your your pocket lightened a 55 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, there's this, there's this very American romanticization 56 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: of con artists, you know what I mean. We like 57 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: the mav Rick. We like the idea of somebody living 58 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: by their wits, and then especially we liked the idea 59 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: of people getting their come up. It's for following their 60 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: baser instincts. Right, being greedy gets somebody built, or you know, 61 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: being covetous gets someone swindled. So there's this, there's this 62 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: interesting victim blaming thing. We're like, wow, yeah, and I 63 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: lost a hundred bucks. But they deserved it, you know, 64 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: Uh so shame on them. Bertha Hayman was no exception 65 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: because people did romanticize her a little bit. And her 66 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: story is very interesting. We're not gonna spoil it yet, 67 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: but we want you to know this takes a weird 68 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: turn towards the end. So she first got the attention 69 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: of NYPD in the eighteen seventies. Newspapers instantly recognized that 70 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: she would be She would make for good headlines, right, 71 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: she would move some copies, and the newspapers began calling 72 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: her Big Bertha, and they had some unkind descriptions of her. 73 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: It is not age well, the paper was quoted and 74 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: describing her as forty years of age, decidedly ugly and 75 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: weighing two hundred and fifty pounds uh and and was 76 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: constantly taking cheap pot shots at her her weight, describing 77 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: her at times as elephantine, which I think is a 78 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: cute word. It makes me think of a small elephant, 79 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: you know, an elephantine, like a teeny elephant. But no, 80 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: that is not what that means. It means large, like 81 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: an elephant. Or um. They would compare her to a battleship, 82 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: and I really love this description from Alice Obscia. They 83 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: say that she was built like a tank. But what 84 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: she lacked in society approved feminine wiles, she more than 85 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: made up within charisma, and she had an m o 86 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: an emo that she was quite proud of. She would 87 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: claim to be a fabulously wealthy woman who was just 88 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: for one reason or another, having trouble getting to her 89 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: funds in the held up in court, held up in 90 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: a bank, et cetera. And all she would need is 91 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: a kind male stranger to lend her a little bit 92 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: of money, and she would use that to access her 93 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: state and then pay them back handsomely. It's kind of 94 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: like a Nigerian prince scheme or a predecessor thereof that's right. 95 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: There's one account on criminals Revised dot blog that's pretty great. Um. 96 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: In one situation, she was on the way from New 97 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: York Chicago and she struck up a conversation with the 98 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: train conductor and you know, sticking to this that this 99 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: ruse her go to Ruse. She convinced him that she 100 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: had lots of assets that needed management. This is kind 101 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: of a little bit of a variation on on the 102 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: basic con um but that she had assets that were 103 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: in need of management, and she literally convinced him to 104 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: quit his job and take over managing her estate. But first, 105 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: before you know, she could give him this amazing opportunity, 106 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: she was in need of a little bit of cash 107 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: to float her to settle some legal matters. So it's 108 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: the bait and switch, right, I mean, it's literally like, hey, 109 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: look over here, here's this great thing. And then while 110 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: you're looking over here and thinking about all the great 111 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: things that can happen to you, you're not thinking about 112 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: the fact that it's odd that this supposedly rich person 113 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: is asking you for a thousand dollar loane in cash 114 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: to settle some matters. I'm doing hard quote fingers right now. Yeah. 115 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: And furthermore, for her, this wasn't just a job. We 116 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: get the sense that conning people was a craft to her, 117 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: a work of art. She told a police chief in 118 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: Jersey City in eight three that she preferred to target 119 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: men who should know better. The moment I discover a 120 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: man's a fool, I let him drop, she said. But 121 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: I delight in getting into the confidence and pockets of 122 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: men who think they can't be skinned. It ministers to 123 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: my intellectual pride. We should also know she got arrested 124 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: tons of times, and and that's that that train conductor 125 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: story just just to wrap that up, and it gets 126 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: us to where we're going. The guy's name was Mr 127 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: parrin and he totally did the thing, gave her the money, 128 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: and then when they got to New York, she just 129 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: camped out in all these like luxury hotels and spent 130 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: all the money running up the bills, and then hired 131 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: a lawyer to to you know, to take her case 132 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: because she knew what was coming. But even the lawyer 133 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: like she, she didn't pay him either. So her own 134 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: lawyer ended up like teaming up essentially with Mr parrin 135 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: Um who was the conductor, and they took legal action 136 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: against her to recover the money that she had borrowed 137 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: and also for the unpaid uh legal fees. This arrest 138 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: um is what led her husband, John Hayman to fly 139 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: the coop because he was he'd had enough and what 140 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: year was that? That was eight? Yeah, perfect, because we're 141 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: building this timeline of a master criminals career because um, 142 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: this this occurred while she had been drifting around New York, right, 143 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: she was stealing watches, she was forging checks. Uh, and 144 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: then she was in and out of the penitentiary in 145 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty one, she was leaving court because she had 146 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: been acquitted on a charge of theft when she was 147 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: arrested by New York detectives and charged with scamming New 148 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: York businessman. And then she went to prison for two years. 149 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: So she almost got away, almost got acquitted of one crime, 150 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: but was locked away for two years due to an 151 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: unrelated con And even when she was in jail, she 152 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: was conning people. In the early eighteen eighties, while she 153 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: was locked up on black Wells Island, Bertha befriended and 154 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: conned the guy out of his life savings about nine 155 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: hundred dollars worth. That's that's the equivalent of over twenty 156 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: thou dollars today. And then when she got out of jail, 157 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: she did not turn over new leaf, She did not 158 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: learn anything. She just went back to conning people and 159 00:09:55,160 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: she expands her her sphere of operations, maybe the too 160 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: much heat in New York. Our next Bertha escapade takes 161 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: place in San Francisco, so she basically was like on 162 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: the lamb, she had to flee the scene, she was 163 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: persona non gratto, any other numbers of hyperbolic things that 164 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: I could call her right now, but it's sure she 165 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: did turn up in San Francisco in um. And in 166 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: this particular story she actually cons a man of God, 167 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: which is, you know, I don't know, maybe he maybe 168 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: he did something bad, maybe he deserved this come up, 169 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: And I don't know. I think it's possible that that 170 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: is less important than it is to her, just to 171 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: you know, get paid. So when she gets to San 172 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: Francisco in eight she finds this rabbi of the Beth 173 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: Israel Congregation and introduces herself as Bertha Stanley and says 174 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: that she, you know, he starts with the same kind 175 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: of gimmick. I'm a widow of wealth and uh as 176 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: looking for a nice Jewish husband. Um. The rabbi's name, 177 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: by the way, was Dr aj Messing, and he and 178 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: Bertha had been acquainted from from Prussia from back in 179 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: the Old Country during her childhood Yeah, so she is 180 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: buttering up this guy, and she tells this rabbi that 181 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: she's inherited three grand, which is around six million dollars 182 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: more in today's cash. Uh. And she got this from 183 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: her husband, and her husband was Christian. But she told 184 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: the rabbi she wanted her next marriage to be with 185 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: someone of the Jewish faith. So she decided she was 186 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: going to offer one thousand dollars to anyone who could 187 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: help her find an acceptable Jewish husband. And so the 188 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: rabbi steps in and he introduces her to a fellow 189 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: named Abraham Grun And you know, again back to the charisma, 190 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: which she had copious amounts. I was just using with 191 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: charisma despite her Uh is what we say homely is 192 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: that is that unkind? It's better than elephantine. Oh and 193 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: Elephantina wanted to add Elephantine is not just being large, 194 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: it's also being awkward and clumsy. Someone a klutz, Yeah, 195 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: a big clutz. Well, she clearly wasn't a klutz at 196 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: least in terms of the way she orchestrated these uh, 197 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: balletic feats of swindle ry swindle real word it is 198 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: now um So yeah, this guy grew gruin grunman. What's 199 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: his name? Grun grunt just adding syllables to everything today. Uh, 200 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: falls madly in love with Bertha. She works her magic 201 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: on him and he is eating out of her hand, 202 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: in the palm of her hand wrapped around her finger 203 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: and such. Yeah. So he proposes marriage shortly after, very quickly, 204 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: very quickly, like Vegas style, quickly red flag. And he 205 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: also says, I'm gonna adopt this young man accompanying you, 206 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: your stepson, Willie Stanley. Wait, who she had another guy 207 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: with her? The news is a new character, is a 208 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: new audition. Yeah, will tell me about Willie. Willie Stanley 209 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: was not in fact her stepside. Okay, just put that 210 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: out there. Grind grind is you know he's head over heels, 211 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: he's over the moon. Have you mentioned that he's he's 212 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: pretty wealthy in his own right, and he's he's loaded. 213 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: He's a you know, even back then San Francisco. You 214 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: may remember in Deadwood that's where all the fancy men 215 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: lived within the San Francisco and Woo called them San 216 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: Francisco sea word. Uh, you check it out yourself. It's 217 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: it's a it's a delightful show. San Francisco characters characters exactly. 218 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, so he had quite a bit 219 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: of wealth himself. And she, of course I knew this, 220 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: I I I imagine how do you think she worked it? 221 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: You know, because she couldn't determine who the rabbi would 222 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: set her up with. Well, this is this is interesting 223 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: because she can have more influence than maybe the rabbi 224 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: would perceive. You know, there's always some valid reason, And 225 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: if you're manipulating people's emotions, then you can always set 226 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: up these emotional boundaries where no, I'm not okay with 227 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: this guy because of a tragedy that happened, and it 228 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: would be ungentlemanly and unseemly for you to ask me 229 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: anymore about it. Not only that, I mean, you know, 230 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: if you're asking a rabbi who you know from Childhoo 231 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: to set you up with a um, a gentleman suitor, 232 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: you know he the understanding would be would be someone 233 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: who could take care of you, someone who could provide 234 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: you know, who would be a candidate for marriage. Right. Also, 235 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: Abraham Grunn, I don't know if we mentioned this part, 236 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: was the brother in law of the rabbi. He was 237 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: the brother in law of a j. Messing. Oh, the 238 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: plot thickens, so as you say, man, as we've said, 239 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: Bertha has absolutely charmed the pants off of Sam Francisco 240 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: society through her her boy Grunt, and finds herself at 241 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: the very top of the heap there in the Beth 242 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: Israel congregation and she does something that he's key in 243 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: a lot of confidence scams. She gives some money to 244 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: the congregation as a gift, and I'm a I'm a dummy. 245 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: She was posing as a very wealthy woman, so of 246 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: course she would be set up with a very wealthy man, 247 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: one of one of her station, right. And then so 248 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: she gives him a check for one dollars and she 249 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: says there's much much more to come. So people love 250 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: this new mysterious widow Stanley, right. She also this this 251 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: is where he gets interesting. She also tells her fiance Grun, 252 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: you know, my stepson Willie is just kind of against 253 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: this marriage. Um, could you do something? Could you talk 254 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: to him? And so Grunt gives Willie five bucks, essentially 255 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: pays them off, and then Willie says, okay, also, Mr Grun, 256 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: let me see all those jewels that you have that 257 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: you're going to give to my mom. I'd like to 258 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: reset them in a way that she would appreciate. It 259 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: will be a surprise from you and I and so. 260 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: Abraham Grunn says, Okay, yeah, sounds good. It sounds nice. 261 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: You know, it sounds like she's thoughtful thinking of others. 262 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: You know, it sounds like Willie and Grunn have buried 263 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: the hatchet. You're you're making a surprise for mom, exactly exactly. 264 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: She's really presenting that like doting wife kind of image 265 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: very successfully. Then, of course, William Bertha take off, they 266 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: fly the coope. Do we know much more about Willie? 267 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: It was she She was just like her new partner, 268 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: kind of in crime. But yeah, young enough to to 269 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: appear to be her nephew. It's interesting because we don't 270 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: know a ton about the guy called Willie Stanley. We 271 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: do know that he may have been the same person 272 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 1: as Dr je Combs. You may have assumed differ and 273 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: identities depending on the con you know what I mean. 274 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: So maybe they had a working relationship, maybe they were related. Yeah, 275 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: the record isn't entirely clear on that, but we do 276 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: know that he was himself a confidence man. I guess 277 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: they leaked up. Yeah, absolutely, and they absolutely leaked up 278 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: together when they flew the coup from San Francisco to 279 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, only after lightning Mr Grunn's load of precious jewels. 280 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 1: And then, of course that check bounced right As reported 281 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: by the San Francisco Examiner, Abraham Grun becomes suspicious when 282 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: that check, that one dollar Checkbirtha wrote to the congregation bounces. 283 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: He visits Isaiah Le's Isaiah Lees at the time in 284 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: San Francisco's Captain of Detectives Le's Here's grunt out listens 285 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: to the story, notes important details, and something about this 286 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: con seems familiar to him. So he reaches for a book, 287 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: and in this book he turns to photograph number one 288 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: two and he shows it to Abraham Grun. Is this 289 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: the woman you're describing, he asked. Grunt is dumbfounded. He 290 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: is in shock, and he slowly nods something to the 291 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: tune of yes, that's that's my fiance. The book you 292 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: see was Professional Criminals of America, the book we mentioned 293 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: earlier by Thomas F. Burns, who was, by the way, 294 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: the chief of detectives in New York City. The description 295 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: that Grun found read Bertha Hayman, alias Big Bertha confidence queen. 296 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: And can you imagine you're about to get married to 297 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: this person, right, You've you've adopted their step son, and 298 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: now you're learning that she has a rap sheet longer 299 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: than the Mississippi, that she has been in and out 300 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: of jail, and that you have been completely played. Yeah, 301 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: that's not a good day. Now, what would why would 302 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: what would you do? Ben? How would you feel? Would 303 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: you have? Like? What what do you think would be 304 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: going through your head in that situation? What revenge? Oh? 305 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: If I'm one of those people, gosh, you know, I 306 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: guess you'd have to be It's embarrassing. Sure, it's humiliating, right, 307 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: but you would have to be happy that you did 308 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: not actually lose your entire four just lost bucks and 309 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: some jewels and some jewels. Yeah, no, it's true. And 310 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: the embarrassing part is is key, I think because uh, 311 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: not only this was a con that his whole friend 312 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: group and upper echelon of the community that he was 313 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: a member of would have been aware of. Probably not 314 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: a good look. Everyone's gonna think he's a sucker now, 315 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: right right. Yeah, it's a shame. And of course, uh 316 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: grunt follows up with the police and the San Francisco 317 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: police issue a warrant for Bertha's arrest. The heat gets 318 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: to her and Willie. They leave l A, but they 319 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: get captured in Texas. Right, that's right? And she uh this. 320 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: This San Francisco Examiner piece describes her reaction as being outraged, innocence, 321 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: righteous indignation is of what I like to say, um, 322 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: And she really became kind of a darling in the 323 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: public eye because of you know, kind of like Bonnie 324 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: and Clyde. You know again that that whole idea of 325 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: that victim blaming they were talking about where people worship 326 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: batties because they they looked at as like Robin Hood 327 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: esque figures, even though they're really kind of just center 328 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: from themselves. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So this is where we 329 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: see a very interesting twist. Bertha becomes a celebrity of 330 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: sorts when they are arrested in Texas. Bertha is acquitted 331 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: and Willie is found guilty in a trial that is 332 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: surrounded by the paparazzi and lookye lose and so on. 333 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: The judge apparently had a tough time forcing his way 334 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: through the crowd to reach the bench. Willie goes up 335 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: to San Quentin for a bit, and Bertha's story spreads 336 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: across Sam Francisco, which leads a men named Ned Foster 337 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: to make an introduction. You see, Ned Foster saw an 338 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: opportunity in Bertha's strange celebrity or strange moment they would 339 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: call it in the pr bizs and he said, Hey, 340 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: you're great at you know, uh Connery or whatever, but 341 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: why not check out show biz? And so Bertha ends 342 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: up doing this is a true story, a one woman 343 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: show for this with this guy. He bailed her out 344 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: of jail in Texas. Yeah, he's basically like a promoter 345 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 1: of sorts, like a showman. Um. And they launched a 346 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: booking at the Woodwards Garden and eighteen thousand people came 347 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: to see her her story um where she kind of 348 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: presented herself as the victim. And uh, it's kind of 349 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: like an epic poem I guess called the Confidence Queen. 350 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: Would you like to would you bless us with a 351 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: reading man? Oh? Shell? We okay. So when vain grasping 352 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: men pants for glittering gold and find their bonanza in me, 353 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: is it wicked to show up how badly they're sold? 354 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: And the rogues that men can sometimes be. I think 355 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: they lost a little bit of the meter at the end. 356 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: But you see what they're doing. It's kind of romanticizing. 357 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: They're they're doing exactly what we described at the very 358 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: top of the show. Uh is selling that image even further, 359 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: which I think is almost another act of con artistry 360 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: in itself. Yes, a Creed agreed, and she gets booked 361 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: at the Bellow Union. So now instead of getting booked 362 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: by police, she's getting booked by promoters. And this is 363 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: a big deal because at the time that Bellow Union 364 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: is the most popular venue for music in San Francisco. 365 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: There's a great way that the San Francisco Examiner puts this. 366 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: She discovered her lack of talent was no barrier to popularity. 367 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: We can relate to that a little too, a little 368 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: too easily. She was paired with the of course, the 369 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: world famous UFF personal favorite. Yeah, I'm sure we're all 370 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: familiar with UFT. But just in case someone's been living 371 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: under a rock all these years, No, who could you 372 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about Utah? He was like, uh, 373 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: what Barbary Coast, which would be like a pirate situation, right, yeah? Uh? 374 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: And he his his stick was that he was a 375 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: human punching bag. Um, and they would do these boxing 376 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: matches that were staged and Um, she would knock him out, 377 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: you know, Mike Tyson punch out style. And then decided 378 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: to take it a step further and add a little humor. 379 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: Um and Foster thought it'd be really cute to cast 380 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: them in a in a version of Romeo and Juliet. Oh, 381 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,239 Speaker 1: I should amend this real quick. The Barbary Coast that 382 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: they're referring to is a red light district in San Francisco. 383 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: Oh snap, Okay, so they they're pirates of a sort. 384 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: But the main thing we need to know about this 385 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 1: guy is that sexy pirates. Uh, you know, it depends 386 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: on what you're into. There's something out there for everyone. 387 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: In San Francisco is a big town. I mean, it's 388 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: all on the table in San Francisco. That's in the 389 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: red light district. That's what they say. What they say. 390 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: It's But the most important thing to know about this 391 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: this guy, this Barbary Coast character Ufti Goofti, is that 392 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: he literally made a living by letting people beat the 393 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: snot out of him for money. That's a weird. That's 394 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: a weird gig to meet you know what? That feels like. 395 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: That feels like an occupation someone would have in a 396 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,719 Speaker 1: French arthouse film. Sure does. Yeah you've seen that film, Casey. 397 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: You know, I can't think of any French art house 398 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: films off the top of my head. However, there's an 399 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: unrealized harmony Korean project called Fight harm where he went 400 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: out on the street with like a hidden camera and 401 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: just try to go people into beating the crap out 402 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: of him. Wow. Yeah, okay, and he filmed like two 403 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: or three fights. I think he ended up in jail 404 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: one time and and then decided the film was like 405 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: impossible to complete because he was gonna be dead by 406 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: the time he finished it. Casey on the Case Always Today, 407 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: I learned something. Yeah, So it turns out this show 408 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: is a hit, and soon Bertha is going on tour 409 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: across the West coast, and she also has an open 410 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: invitation to any men in the audience to try to 411 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: wrestle her, and she generally knocks them out. Yeah. I 412 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: mean she's the heavy no pun intended, and the heel. 413 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: The heel. The heel is a bad guy in wrestling. Yeah, 414 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: that makes sense. She's you know, she's the big ticket, 415 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: so she's a little beyond. She's in a very Nietzschean way. 416 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: She is beyond the good and evil of wrestling. Oh, 417 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: you had to stop with these nietzsche references. Anyhow, There's 418 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: one more twist. It's not even really a twist, is it, 419 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: because it's what we kind of expected her to do. 420 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: She tells her manager that her suitcase has a false bottom, 421 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: so it's got a hidden compartment. And that compartment, she says, 422 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: contains ten thousand dollars worth of Canadian bonds and thousands 423 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: of dollars in jewelry. She says, will you handle the 424 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: sale for me? And they negotiate over the next few 425 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 1: days how to move these bonds in this jewelry. And 426 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: while they're doing that, Bertha is repeatedly borrowing just small 427 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: sums of money from her manager. From Foster. Yeah, so, 428 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,959 Speaker 1: the guy that gave her a new lease on life, 429 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: the ability to kind of go straight, she ultimately totally 430 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: betrayed him. Yeah yeah, uh con sound cue time. So uh. 431 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: He agrees that he'll pay her six dollars US for 432 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,719 Speaker 1: the trunk, but before doing so, he sneaks into her 433 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: room and their Foster discovers that the false bottom was 434 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: itself false. It was a fake, fake bottom. So she 435 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: burned that bridge. Looks like she burned a lot of bridges. 436 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: But to her, she said that she didn't care about 437 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: the money she made from the con jobs. She said 438 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: she gave it away to needy people. But the record 439 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: show that was also a lie. Like many card artists, 440 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: she just robbed everyone she could and she kept as 441 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: much as she could. And uh, you know, all through 442 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: this research, I was like, gosh, I want to see 443 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: this as a movie, and it's uh, it could well 444 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: be a possibility. One of my favorite comedians and from 445 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: one of the only podcasts that I listened to, how 446 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: did this get made? Paul sheer Um has been seriously 447 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: considering turning this into a film. Um He refers to 448 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: her as a badass Khan woman who was not conventionally attractive, 449 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: and then he sites The New York Times referring to 450 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: her as Bertha is a stout, gross looking woman and 451 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: it's difficult to imagine how she succeeded in ensnaring so 452 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: many victims by appear us to their confidence. Um, I 453 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: for a one would love to see Paul sheer tackle 454 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: tackle this film, agreed, and I know that we are 455 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: all collectively on the edge of our seats here wondering 456 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: if we can hear more about OOFTI goof who I 457 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: would like to see played by Willem Dafoe in this 458 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: in this film. Uh. He was born in Berlin. His 459 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: name was bord Art. Yeah, born in Berlin as Leonard 460 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: or leon boord Charts, that's right, and really became a 461 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: part of the San Francisco vaudeville scene, starting a four 462 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: where he did a freak show where he played a 463 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: kind of a stock character that you'd see in a 464 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: lot of dime museums on market streets, some of which 465 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: are still I think there actually is a coin music 466 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: a coin operated arcade machine museum in San Francisco. You 467 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: can go seet So. I don't know I'm geting the 468 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: name right, but he played this wild man of borneo character, 469 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: which is kind of like racist kind of Yeah, it's 470 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: a yeah, it's a great doably. Uh. They they painted 471 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: him in glue, covered him in horse hair, and then 472 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: he would grunt. After three weeks though he had to 473 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: be hospitalized to get the fur and the glue off. 474 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: That in this process, probably took some skin with it. 475 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: That's how he got the name Oofti Goofty. He would 476 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: regularly appear in local papers for his various antics. He 477 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: drank six bottles of beer in six minutes with a 478 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: teaspoon that he shipped himself to Sacramento in a box. Uh. 479 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: He was in a bunch of weird contests and then 480 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, eventually he let people beat him blind for money, 481 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: and then by nine he settled in Houston, where he disappears. 482 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: It's true, um, but you know he left us with 483 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: a with a pretty fantastic story. Um, as was the 484 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: story of of Big Bertha. Yep, and this concludes our episode. 485 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: But not real? Is this? Are you serious? We kind 486 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: of asked for it, but no, but this happened in 487 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: the last episode. Whatever, it's time, gentlemen, whoa, whoa, whoa? 488 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: No fair? I did I did say that. Jonathan Strickland 489 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: a k a. The Quister two episodes in a row, 490 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: Lightning dust trick twice. How dare you welcome to ridiculous quisterry? Yes, 491 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: I'm taking it all over. Every episode will have a 492 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: quiz this segment. I can't back that up. I have 493 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: to go out of town, but I thought perhaps I 494 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: could at least join you for this subsequent episode since 495 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: you were so very very confident at the end of 496 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: our last meeting. Well you know, I mean, it was 497 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: nice to have a little wine. And also it turns 498 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: out the tally isn't that far off at this point. 499 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: Two down to down fntin eleven, quister, and we know 500 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: that thanks to you, Matthew. Now in a few Matthew, 501 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: with one that happened, Casey found that for us. So 502 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: we wanted to give you a specific shout out there, Matthew, 503 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: thank you for tallying the score. We'll try to keep 504 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: track of it, but we could only get to that 505 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: point with your help. Speaking of uh, the opposite of help, 506 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland a k the quister, Are we doing the 507 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: thing again? We are? We are. I'm going to present 508 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: to you a historical scenario, whereupon at the end you 509 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: will have three minutes to decide whether I am giving 510 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: a real moment in history or if I made it up. 511 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: Seats and you will be able to ask me questions 512 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: to clarify things, following a rule of our betray nature, 513 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: which I will reveal to you after I do the scenario. 514 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: Now we talked, I have a lawful in my throat. 515 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: By the ways, it was really good for lawful, but 516 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: it's a little dry. It's a good look for you. Yeah. Anyway, 517 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: so you were talking about something of a scam artist, 518 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: a con artist. So I thought I would follow that 519 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: trend with a scenario about a pretender. Ready, I am uh, 520 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: let me hang on. I was sitting on the whole seat. 521 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: It's like, I'll just sit on the edge. Okay, I'm ready. 522 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: Wallachia is best known to us as the principality that 523 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: Vlad the Impaler, the inspiration for Dracula, ruled over in 524 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: the mid fifteenth century, but it also has the distinction 525 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: of being a region with the shortest rule on record. 526 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: Petru the Third has that distinction of ruling Wallachia for 527 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: only twelve minutes, leading Minute to say that he never 528 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: really was the ruler of Wallachia at all, making him 529 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: a pretender. At the time, Wallachia was in a state 530 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: of civil war as numerous families vied for leadership, plus 531 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: it was fending off attacks from the Ottoman Empire, and 532 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: poor Petru the Third, who was both great grandson and you, 533 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: great great nephew to Vlad the Impala inherited the position 534 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: from his father Manea the Third, who was too ill 535 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: to lead, But under tremendous pressure from numerous forces, Petrow 536 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: the Third abdicated the position as soon as he could 537 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: sign the document to do so. Later, loyalists would support 538 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: Petrow the Third as rightful ruler, even though Petrow showed 539 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: no signs of interest in ruling and was in fact 540 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: locked safely away in another powerful family's prison. Now, your 541 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: arbitrary rule is that if you wish to ask me 542 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: a question, you must preface it with blood. Begin the timer. 543 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, hey on, let me get a running start, 544 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: all right, I forgot it's in the other room. You 545 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: guys really need to get back into the other studio. 546 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: And I'm not sure what happened, so alright, go go. 547 00:33:54,880 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: Uh yes, Mr Berlin, but excuse me, what what time 548 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: period this would be seven when this happened fifteen twenties seven? 549 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: So I wonder this is just uh, this is to 550 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 1: you guys. And also, Casey, I noticed that you never 551 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: back us up there in this segment. This is uh, 552 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: I mean to be fair, we we don't pull him in. Yeah, 553 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: we don't want to make him suffer the ignomy of defeat. 554 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,280 Speaker 1: We also discovered last episode that he's semi in league 555 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: with Jonathan. That's his alter ego, plays both sides. So 556 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: the thing that's interesting here is fifteen twenty seven. Makes 557 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: me wonder how they could have as precise and estimate 558 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: is twelve minutes. You know what I mean? Jonathan made 559 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: a face, just amazed that you've never heard of things 560 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: like an hour glass. It's called an hour glass on 561 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: a minute glass. Bro fair enough, you know. I I'm 562 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: just I'm just posing that as an interesting thing. Perhaps 563 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: will learn about horology and the out of time on 564 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: the way here. But what do you what do you think? 565 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: I I kind of I don't know, man, I've been 566 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: going through this optimistic face. It was such a dull one. 567 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: I've kind of forgotten what it was about. Honestly, at 568 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: this point, it's about the It was about the pretender 569 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 1: to the throne, who was thought to have been technically 570 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: the ruler of Vallachia for twelve minutes, signed the checker 571 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: the twelve minutes before he signed the paper and said 572 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 1: he didn't want to be uh, he abdicated, but he 573 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: had a mob of people who still wanted him to 574 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: be the ruler. Jonathan by this this this is an 575 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: audio podcast. I want you all to know the the 576 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: just the level, the offensive level of glee on this 577 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: guy's face as he looks back and forth from us. 578 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: I know, uh it sounds m Do you want to 579 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,760 Speaker 1: just say true? It's probably wrong? I don't know. Probably 580 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,879 Speaker 1: you know what we should just do. Let's just rock 581 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 1: paper scissor and just go with you know who's true 582 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: and who's false. I'll be true again, it doesn't matter, 583 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: all right, one to three shooting, alright, we're going false. 584 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: Then this takes all the fun out of it. When 585 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,439 Speaker 1: you're literally leaving it up to chats. I mean, why 586 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: am I even coming in here? All right? No, no, no, 587 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: give us what's what's the Well, you're technically correct, which correct. 588 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: That's why you're mad because it's twelve and you're not 589 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: even using your freaking faculties. So Ben, you gotta get 590 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: better at rock paper scissors, because you're always wrong, Jonathan, 591 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: to be fair, unless we knew this story specifically, what 592 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: are we mean? It is up to I don't know, 593 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: like how you have to use you have to use 594 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: you we did. No, no, no, you're too good at this, sir, 595 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: flip a coin. All right, well, let me let me 596 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: give you. Let me give you some some real history, 597 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: because I like to. So there is no Petro the third. 598 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: There was a Petru the second, but there was no 599 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 1: Petro the third. There was no Mania the third. There 600 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: was a Mania the second, but there was no Mania 601 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: the third. None of that was real. However, there is 602 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: the story of a dauphin in France who technically was 603 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: the regent of France for all of twenty minutes before 604 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,240 Speaker 1: he abdicated the throne. So that was what I based 605 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: it off of. He has uh the record of the 606 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: shortest reign, and that's only assuming that you count it 607 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: as being a legitimate reign, and a lot of people don't, 608 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 1: because he essentially abdicated shortly after his father had also 609 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: abdicated the throne. So it was the Revolution of eighteen thirty, 610 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: as I recall. But that was that was the basis 611 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: from which I drew inspiration. And yes, who, So why 612 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: did you add the vampire bidden? Because that was I 613 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: was trying to think of a kingdom that you probably 614 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: wouldn't know anything about. Oh well, so I went with Wallachia, 615 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 1: which and then said the one thing that anybody knows 616 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: about exactly because you know it's a real place and 617 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: you know it's a real person, so that that anchors 618 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: it in reality. Yeah, and you know, there were an 619 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: awful If you look at the list of people who 620 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: ruled that principality, it goes back and forth fifty times 621 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: in a twenty years span among two or three different families, 622 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,720 Speaker 1: most of whom are related to one another through blood 623 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: or marriage at least once or twice. So yeah, that 624 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: was why bloodlines, uh, which is weird because even during 625 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: these periods of just robust and ferocious incests, people knew 626 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: without being geneticist, people knew that there were disadvantages to that. Right. 627 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: It certainly manifested itself quite clearly in a few very 628 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 1: notable historic cases, the Habsburgs in particular. Yeah, the last 629 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: of the Habsburgs was Wow, what a jaw? I what 630 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: was it? He's like, I am the king and I 631 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,720 Speaker 1: want putting or something like that. Uh. So that there 632 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: was a character on A thirty Rock that was based 633 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: off of that, yes, played by Paul Rubens a k Ape, 634 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: the little kind of weedy guy was based off of 635 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: the actual historical Habsburgs, although that was obviously centuries earlier. 636 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: You're no fun, We're We're a lot of yeah, one 637 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: one down. Also, it occurs to me that in setting 638 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: out this this strange what you call the most cringe 639 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: worthy segment and podcasting uh and setting on the strange endeavor, 640 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,879 Speaker 1: we never had a milestone to play toward. It's just 641 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: this game that will continue, not entirely consensually, because I like, 642 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: this is the first time you showed up in consecutive episodes. 643 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: I do love the idea of being able to vanquish 644 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: you by exceeding your number by one, and then perhaps 645 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: you'll just vanish in a puff of smoke, perhaps or 646 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: come back with a new segment. First, I refuse to 647 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: be vanquished by people who are effectively drunken, blindfolded and 648 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,479 Speaker 1: firing arrows blindly and just happening to hit the target. Okay, look, 649 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: it's just like your opinion, man, Maybe maybe we didn't. Okay, 650 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: I'll be honest. Maybe I don't seem as a hundred 651 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: percent committed to the idea of competition. I might be 652 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 1: phoning it in a little with the rock paper scissors, 653 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: with that, but that's just because you know, the competition 654 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: is just an excuse to hang out and learn more history. 655 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: In my opinion, to be fair, Rock Paper Sister has 656 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: been part of the equation since the beginning. So no, 657 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: I remember once in a while you too both agree 658 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: on something, which is much more fun for me because 659 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 1: either it means that you you you arrived at the 660 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: right answer, which case oh I lose boo, or you 661 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: more amusingly choose the wrong answer and then I get 662 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: to do my little dance. Yeah I know, man, I've 663 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: seen your blog. I know about the dance. Yeah, I've 664 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: got this whole gift thing on Facebook now called the 665 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 1: Orange Injustice. Well, thank you so much for coming on 666 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: the show again. Jonathan Strickland a k a. The quiz Jerch, 667 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: see you next week. Come on, man, I mean I'm 668 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 1: gonna be on a boat. You guys are safe. Oh yeah, 669 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: but are you well that that really isn't up to me, 670 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: is it. No? I'll tell you something, man, You need 671 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: to be careful with La Bush. Like the hand that 672 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 1: one hand heels and the other harms. This guy is 673 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: no joke. Is he a pirate on the side? We 674 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: don't really know. And the other hook hurts really well. 675 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: Our friendship with Casey pegramyk La Bush is based primarily 676 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,800 Speaker 1: on us not asking questions about his double or trebled lives. 677 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,760 Speaker 1: But thanks to Casey, thanks to you, Thanks to Gabe Louzier, 678 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,879 Speaker 1: research assistant, Thanks to Alex Williams, who composed our theme. 679 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: Thanks to Christopher Hasciotas here in Spirit, thanks to Eve's 680 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,600 Speaker 1: Jeff Code, and uh all of the ridiculous historians out 681 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: there in podcast land, and it most importantly Ben, thanks 682 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: to you, Bud. Thanks to you Pal. Also thanks to 683 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: people who have the last name Hayman. I think it's 684 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: just such a cool last name. Hey Man. Agreed, See 685 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: you next time. Books Blessed For more podcasts for my 686 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 687 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.