1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of Papa's Perspective, brought to you 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: by Bob's Discount Furniture, the official furniture store, and a 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Mattress partner all the New York Giants. Well, the countdown 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: to one hundred has been released, and you know, I 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: put together this blue ribbon panel of voters, and one 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: of them is Joe Horrigan, who has been with the 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame since nineteen seventy seven. You've 8 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: been around Hall of Fame voting, You've been around all 9 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: this and Joe was nice enough to dedicate his time 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: in helping us identify the top one hundred players. What 11 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: was the biggest challenge for you, Joe in this process? 12 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: Well, you know, always when we're talking about team specific 13 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: you know, I have to keep remembering that, you know, 14 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 2: when you start looking and you're saying, gosh, you only 15 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: made two Pro Bowls or all Pro teams, But that's 16 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 2: only a given team in a given position that may 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: have been locked down by somebody, you know, for you know, 18 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: outside of the outside of the team for a number 19 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: of years. Like you know, I'm sure there are a 20 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: lot of linebackers in the NFL that hated the annual 21 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: All Pro picks when Lawrence Taylor was playing, because that 22 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: was a slot gone, you know, so you always got 23 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: to remember that, and that's always a difficult thing when 24 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 2: you're trying to apply apples to apples. There were a 25 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 2: lot of you know, we see it all the time 26 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 2: at the Pro Football and you see guys that you 27 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: would say, oh, he must have been an All Pro, 28 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: you know, his entire career and maybe twice because there 29 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 2: was a guy nam Joe Montana playing quarterback instead of 30 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 2: you know, you know, bouncing someone like a John Elway 31 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: out of the year when clearly he was a great, 32 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: great quarterback. So that's the thing that I had to 33 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: keep in mind all the time is got to remember 34 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: apples to apples and who else was playing that position 35 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: over the years, not just on that team, but outside 36 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: that team to measure against. 37 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's something what Carl Banks only made 38 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: it to one Pro Bowl. He's got Lawrence Taylor by 39 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: and Robert Stamp, Harry Carson had gone to what ten 40 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: straight and I'm sure people had Giants fatigue, And of 41 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: course the Saints had some great linebackers at the time. 42 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: But the Pro Football Hall of Fame recognized him as 43 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: part of the All Decade Team of the eighties as 44 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: the second team, so kinda kind of softens it. 45 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta get to wonder what does it take. 46 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: You know, he was perhaps better at his position, you 47 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 2: know that than many others at other positions that were 48 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: slammed dunks. Yeah, logic, so. 49 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: Joe obviously comparing errors was another interesting component of this. 50 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: But I want to focus in on some of the 51 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: guys that are on this list that are in the 52 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame, because look, we don't need 53 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,839 Speaker 1: to discuss on this show. Lawrence Taylor. We know where 54 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: he stands in the lexicon. But you know, Roosevelt Brown 55 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: finished number two in the voting. And I try to 56 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: explain to fans that have questioned me via social media, 57 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: how could Roosevelt Brown be number two? And I say, 58 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: think of Jonathan Ogden, who is probably of this era 59 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: one of the premier left tackles. Well, Roosevelt Brown was 60 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: that as the first of his kind. 61 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: Right right, And that's and that's kind of to my point. 62 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 2: In the era that that Roosevelt played, Rosie as I 63 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: know him, uh what the era that he played, he was, 64 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: he was the man you know, and you can't not 65 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: acknowledge that. I mean, when you're looking at an all 66 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: time you know, team one hundred list and certainly has 67 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,679 Speaker 2: got to be on it. But it doesn't surprise me 68 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: at all that he was the number two vote vote 69 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: getter because he was that good when he played. And 70 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: that's that's the concept, and that's a that's a challenge 71 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 2: for chapter for for selectors who I never saw a 72 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: bulk of his work. I saw it in film. I 73 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: saw it and through the eyes of others. But I 74 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: can tell you that through those eyes of others, he 75 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: was every bit as good as anybody that ever played 76 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 2: the game. So you know, it didn't surprise me at all. 77 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: And not their name. Who's an American hero and I 78 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: know is near and dear to your heart because he's 79 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: the first African American player to be inducted into the 80 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame And still he's the Giants 81 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: in interceptions, Emlyn Tanell is bigger than just the New 82 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: York Giants when you look at his significance. 83 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, no question about it. And you alluded to his 84 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: military career. He literally was a guy that tried to enlisting. 85 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: They kept turning him down. So he got into the 86 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: Coast Guard and then distinguished as a war hero literally. 87 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: But it was one of those guys, you know, he was. 88 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: He was a pioneer in so many different ways as 89 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: an African American playing pro football. That alone, you know, 90 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 2: put him on a pedestal in my eyes, because of 91 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: the barriers that he had to break every week. And 92 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: it wasn't just you know, I always got to get 93 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: a Chuck Cloud somebody. They say, you know, Maria Motley, 94 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: Bill Willis wood, he Strode, and Kenny Washington broke the 95 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: color barrier. Well, they broke the color barrier, but man, 96 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: oh man, it existed for many years after that. They 97 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: just opened the door. And there were the guys that 98 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: played nineteen forty seven, forty eight, forty nine, fifty that 99 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: went through exactly the same things that those four pioneers 100 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 2: went through, but not with as much historical recognition. So 101 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: you look at Emily and he falls right into that 102 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: category of being an outstanding player in a game where 103 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,559 Speaker 2: I'm sure there were a lot of headhunters out there, 104 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: you know, looking for him. 105 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, you make a great point, too, Joe. Once the 106 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: barrier is broken, it's not as if everyone goes, Okay, 107 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: this is great, the barrier has been broken. It went on. 108 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: I mean what they endured and we learned about it 109 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: in the Jackie Robinson movie about the Enduring, but all 110 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: these NFL players had to endure it for years. 111 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you think about preparing for a game. You know, 112 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 2: he had to prepare for a game in many different ways. 113 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 2: He had to prepare for that unfair treatment that he 114 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: was going to get from opposing players. It was accepted. 115 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: You know, it was his teammates that would come to 116 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 2: his rescue more often than not. But you had to 117 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: look at the game officials. Even Mary and Motley actually 118 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: remembered the name of the official, the first official to 119 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: ever throw a penalty flag for unsportsmanlike conduct when a 120 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 2: player was trying to purposely hurt him. You know that 121 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: meant that much to him. You know that he had 122 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: had his hit on a swivel on every play that 123 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: he remembered the game official's name, Tommy Hewett. I remember it, 124 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: Mary told me. But you know that that is such 125 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: a statement in and of itself. 126 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about Ray Flaherty because he's 127 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: been in the news lately as the Giants unretired his 128 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: number for Molik neighbors. This guy was a great player. Again, 129 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: it comes in a different era and the first player 130 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: in the history of professional football to ever have his 131 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: number retired. 132 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's kind of a funny thing, you know, 133 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 2: And maybe he started something we wished he'd never done 134 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: because it comes such a an issue with the unretiring numbers, 135 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 2: as some other teams have faced before too. But yeah, 136 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: Ray was one of those guys. Was not only a 137 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 2: great player, but he goes so far back again that 138 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 2: none of us could say we ever saw him play. 139 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: We had to rely on, you know, the words in 140 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: the eyes of others. But he was also a good coach, 141 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: you know, that was the you know, the other part 142 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: of his story. We had more complete packages back in 143 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 2: the day when they were playing two ways and then 144 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 2: went on to coach. You know, you just transition right 145 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: out of the playing off the playing field into coaching. 146 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: And some of them were actually player coaches. So there's 147 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: this package of work that they have that you wouldn't 148 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 2: be discussing today in any way of shape. Yeah. 149 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: Another guy that kind of fits in that early stages 150 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: of the NFL is Ken Strong, right, you know, Ken Strong, 151 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: mel Heine ironman. 152 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: You know, Melhinm was that, you know forever, you know, 153 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: if they talked about an all time center, right up 154 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: into the seventies and eighties, he was still the guy, 155 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: you know, you know, it's like he was that and 156 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: made that much of an impression on though that did 157 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: see him play, and I got to know Mel a 158 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: little bit, and he was a monster of a man. 159 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: But you could just tell he was just one football. 160 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: He stayed in it in an administrative ear. He was 161 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: the director of officiating in American football for a while 162 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 2: as a matter of fact. But Mel was a perfect 163 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: example of the double curse of a player who played 164 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: both ways. But he played center. He played you know, 165 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: alignment that they don't get a lot of recognition today, 166 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: but in the day one he was playing center, and 167 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 2: you know, being playing his alignment. It was a running game. Really, 168 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: let's let's remember that. So it was I don't want 169 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 2: to say it was more important than it was in 170 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: the passing game as it evolved, but he got more 171 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: recognition for it. You know, you followed the guys like 172 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 2: him a little bit close more closely, and he dominated 173 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: so much that he capitalized on that fame and made 174 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: every All League on it. I think you could have 175 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: his alignment. You know. 176 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: It's interesting because I'm probably too young to remember that, 177 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: but I don't remember in the early seventies people still 178 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: using mel Hine as the standard bearer, you know, I 179 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: just you know, I was too young at the time 180 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: to understand it. But when you think about it's fifty 181 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: years removed from when he played, and he was still 182 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: considered the standard bearer for center play in the league. 183 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's funny because the guy that kind of 184 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: started to replace replace him was another The last of 185 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 2: the two way players was Chuck Banerrick, you know, as 186 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 2: a center linebacker, and Chuck had more notoriety, if you 187 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: can believe it, than Melt because Melt played in an 188 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: earlier era when the game was still growing. But there 189 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: there were few, if indy, that ever challenged mel for 190 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: you know, the premier role that he played. 191 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about because this was one 192 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: of the names that I insisted be put on the list. 193 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: And we all know about Jim Lee Howell's staff with 194 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: the Giants. His offensive coordinator was Vince Lombardi. His defense 195 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: it'sive coordinator was Tom Landry and Tom Landry and the 196 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: hat and the Dallas Cowboys and the excellence that he 197 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: did there as a coach. But his credentials as a player, 198 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: when you look at his credentials as a player as 199 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: a New York Giant, I think he's still fourth all 200 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: time in interceptions or whatever for the franchise. But he 201 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: really was a player that who's playing career got overshadowed 202 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: by his greatness as a coach. 203 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're talking. 204 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: Landry, right, Tom Landry. 205 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well Landry was a coach when he was 206 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: a player. That was the other thing. You know, he 207 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: was a player coach, So he was a guy that 208 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: was just so akin to the game. The umbrella defense 209 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: that they developed that you know, that he was a 210 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: part of. I think, you know, I actually was interviewed 211 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago with somebody from the AP 212 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: talking about players transitioning into coaching, and I was saying, how, 213 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: you know, oftentimes some of the greatest coaches were not 214 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 2: as good of players as as you know, as they 215 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 2: you know, as they were coach and Landy Landry came 216 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 2: close to being both because he was a real meticulous player. 217 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 2: He was a student of the game, and that's what 218 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 2: made him a great coach. There was also what made 219 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 2: him a leader on the field, so I'd say that, 220 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 2: you know, his player playing credential was just as strong 221 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: as anybody at that position at the time. 222 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: You know, I look at this list, the Benny Friedman's 223 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: of the world, the Red bag Grows of the world, 224 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: the Ray Flaherty's of the world. These are all guys 225 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: that not only the important Giants history, but important in 226 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: NFL history because these are part of the bedrock of 227 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: what has made the National Football League what it is today. 228 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: Arnie Weinmeister is another. 229 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: Benny Friedman's a perfect example of the pioneer. I mean, 230 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: he was throwing the ball when the game was you know, 231 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 2: they had rules to discourage you from throwing the ball, 232 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: you know, the incomplete passing, the end zone, you turned 233 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 2: the ball over, rules like that. But he was a 234 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 2: pure first. I want to call him peer passerve, but 235 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 2: he was. He was the first to really capitalize on 236 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: throwing the ball and he had the confidence to do it. 237 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 2: It was a great player and others then after him. 238 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: Sammy Ball really became the next guy that really distinguished 239 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:20,239 Speaker 2: himself as a passer. So Benny was was an absolute pioneer. 240 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,599 Speaker 2: And I also think that his recognition in terms of 241 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame and and just in general was 242 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 2: he was Jewish, and there was a there was a 243 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: bias there's and I talked to him on a number 244 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: of occasions where he felt very strongly about uh and 245 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: you know, I can't, I can't argue against that. So 246 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 2: I hope that that didn't have a lot to do 247 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 2: with his his not getting into the Hall until he did, 248 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 2: because I feel that a lot of players like that 249 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 2: he'd fall through the cracks again because the selectors never 250 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: saw him play. You know, his career was over long 251 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: before he was the Hall of Fame was open. But 252 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 2: Ben he was absolutely a pioneer. Red Bread grow the 253 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 2: same way. You know, he was an end which we 254 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: think of in terms of catching the ball. Well, that 255 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 2: was part of his job and he excelled at that 256 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 2: at an early stage because he had guys with the 257 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: giants would throw the ball. But he was also a 258 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: great blocker on offense and a defense evev. So you 259 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 2: know when people look at Red and they say, see, 260 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 2: you know, I never even heard of the guy, Well, 261 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 2: it was kind of the evolution of the position that 262 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 2: was happening at the same time, but he was excelling 263 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: at the earlier way it was played. 264 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: Joe, I want to thank you for taking a couple 265 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: of minutes here to spend time with us and talk 266 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: about these pioneers really building blocks of the NFL, and 267 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: not just that, but the Pro Football Hall of Fame. 268 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: When the Giants had their Night of Legends at Madison 269 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: Square Garden, all the Hall of Fame busts were shipped 270 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: to New York City to Madison Square Garden, which made 271 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: it special for all the fans there that night. A 272 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: really cool move by the Hall of Fame. 273 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 2: Oh, I appreciate that, and we loved doing it. You know, 274 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: it's one of the legacy franchises. I'll take another time. 275 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: We'll get on with you and talk about that. Nineteen 276 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: twenty five Red Grange Gaming in New York and how 277 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 2: important that was. 278 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about it right now. We got a 279 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: few more minutes. Let's talk about it. Well, we don't 280 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: want to leave him hanging when we're talking one hundred years. 281 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: All right, Well, that to me, for those that aren't 282 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 2: familiar with it, Red Grange was the biggest name in 283 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: college football in nineteen twenty five playing at Illinois, and 284 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: he turned pro right after the end of his playing season, 285 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: which was unheard of. I mean, the amateur coaches were 286 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: up in arms that he turned pro in the first place, 287 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: but they're saying he was still in school and they 288 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: were saying, well, eligibility was up, why can't he go anyway, 289 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 2: Long story short, He signs with the Chicago Bears to 290 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: finish the nineteen twenty five NFL season, starting with a 291 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: Thanksgiving Day game in Chicago where the Bears played the 292 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: Cardinals Chicago Cardinals to a sellout crowd which was almost 293 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: unheard of in the NFL at the time thirty six thousand, 294 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: but the big game was now. They went on a 295 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: barnstorming tour at the end of that regular season. Red 296 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: Grange had a manager named C. C. Pile Cash and 297 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: Carry Pile. He was really first player agent. He joined 298 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 2: up with Hallis and Hallison's partner, Dutch Tournament, to go 299 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 2: on a barnstorming tour with the Chicago Bears. Played against 300 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: these teams across the country. These mostly pick up teams 301 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: all across the country, and Pyle literally paid the Bears 302 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 2: as his to be his team to be playing in 303 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: these games, and had grained into a personal services contract, 304 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 2: and that when the Bears during the regular season were 305 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 2: playing finishing out their season, they played a game in 306 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: New York against the Giants and the Polo Grounds. And 307 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 2: it was at a time when Wellington, or Tim Brrow rather, 308 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: was on the cusp of packing it in, didn't see 309 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: the future of the game and was buried in red Ink. 310 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: Well when roughly seventy thousand people showed up to see 311 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 2: Red Grange and a monstrous media turnout, international media coverage 312 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: on the game, he realized we've got something here and 313 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: stayed the course, and of course they became the signature 314 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 2: franchise in the NFL there after. But that that game, 315 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 2: which the Bears are, which the Giants lost, was the 316 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: best thing that ever happened to the Giants. It proved 317 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: that pro football was here to stay. They had a 318 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: big name star. It opened the gates to other stars 319 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 2: to follow. But it went on to that barnstormy tour, 320 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: exposing fans across the country. They went down the East 321 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: Coast and up the West Coast, playing in cities that 322 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: had never seen pro football. So it opened up the 323 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 2: game of pro football. And the only revenue in those 324 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 2: days was the gate. So when Red Grange is selling 325 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 2: out stadiums, that showed that if you get enough star power, 326 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: you get enough promotion, you have a quality team and 327 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: quality play, fans will come. And to me, that was 328 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 2: the most important game, that New York Giants game because 329 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: it was so heavily covered by the media. 330 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: So instead of the being one and done, they're on 331 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: the season one hundred. Perfect way to end it. Joe, 332 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: thank you so much for all of your hard work 333 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: and being part of this Blue Ribbon panel. We appreciate 334 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: it so much as always, and thanks for joining us 335 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: on this edition of Papa's Perspective. 336 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: My Pleasure, Joe. 337 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: Horgan at the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Papa's Perspective 338 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: brought to you by Bob's Discount Furniture, the official furniture 339 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: store and a Mattress partner of the New York Giants 340 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: countdown to one hundred seasons, and one of the thirteen 341 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: members of the voting panel that was so generous to 342 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: dedicate his time to the cause as a super fan 343 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,479 Speaker 1: is the longtime pr man for the Mets and now 344 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: the vice president of alumni Relations. He's got his own podcast, 345 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: Amazing Conversations, Jay Horace, Jay, thank you so much for joining. 346 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 3: Us, Honor Bob, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Jay. 347 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: When you think about the one hundred seasons and then 348 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: being asked to be part of this Blue Ribbon panel, 349 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: what were some of the things that went through your 350 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: mind as you started to reflect on your time as 351 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: a Giants fan. 352 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 3: I've had seized the tickets in nineteen fifty eight. My 353 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 3: first game was in fifty six when we beat the 354 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 3: Beers forty seven to seven. I was I had seized it. 355 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 3: The Yankee state behind the pole. I can remember all 356 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 3: of the horse and beat you running right towards me 357 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 3: in the overtime game. But I was a big pan 358 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 3: of high school. I wrote a poem. First verse of 359 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 3: my poem this is but look come ago. The quarterback 360 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: was tittled by ya by name used this passage to 361 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 3: gather in fame. What are you think of that? 362 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: Pretty good? Nice? 363 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 3: I can't believe it these days. I remember it. 364 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: And certain things you never forget. 365 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 3: I remember Tittle seven touchdown passes, bit to all the 366 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 3: Super Bowls. I remember Eric Barnes at one play, I 367 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 3: think he caught a pass for fifty yards in the game. 368 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 3: I was an equipment manager special so I broke my 369 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 3: hand at the hermndwards game. I broke my hand, my 370 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 3: radio and my binoculars. 371 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: I what play that's a little different than a sack 372 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: force fumble in a return for a touchdown. 373 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 3: Said said, but say a lot of good memories, A 374 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 3: lot of good memories. Jay. 375 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: As we went about this process with you guys as 376 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: the voters, the thirteen members, you know, I decided to 377 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: break it down into groups of twenty five. So we 378 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: did the top twenty five, and every position that the 379 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: player came in got a point value. At the end 380 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: of the day, we did not subjectively then talk about 381 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: where people fell in. We let the vote fall where 382 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: the vote was, just like you would do in Hall 383 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: of Fame voting. How difficult was it for you to 384 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:47,479 Speaker 1: sort of differentiate between the different generations and the different 385 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: eras when you were casting your votes? 386 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 3: It really, you know, I got the first twenty five 387 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 3: forty were pretty much giving it the orders, you know, 388 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 3: just the punch. But I try to take care of 389 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 3: my childhood heroes. I got Tid mid fifties, you know, 390 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 3: Homer Jones, Jimmy Patten, Dick Lynch, you know, Rosie Grier 391 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 3: kept cabbage, Harland is far. I try not to forget 392 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 3: the people I was identified who was a youth, and 393 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 3: you know when I try to work him and I could, 394 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 3: you know, like I see the first I think my 395 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 3: first twenty thirty were well, I don't think it probably 396 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 3: wasn't much differential. But it got to the in the 397 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,719 Speaker 3: mid fifties, that's where it started to, you know, to 398 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 3: get hard. I didn't want to forget about Greg Gloss 399 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 3: and Bookie Bow and Daryl Desk, the guys our member 400 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 3: as a kid. It was just hard, and really I 401 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 3: probably could have gone to one hundred and fifty, you know. 402 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 3: And then we added stuff in the middle, Like I 403 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 3: guess some stuff was wasn't on. We had some guys 404 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 3: that I forgot about, but just so many guys, you know, 405 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 3: I just hoped and I remembered everybody I should have 406 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 3: take care of. The guys should be taken care of. 407 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 3: I think it was a pretty good list, though, Bob. 408 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I thought it came out great. I 409 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: thought that the voters did a really good job of 410 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: paying homage to players that played not only in the 411 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: sixties in the fifties, right, but when you think about 412 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: some of those players that played in the twenties and 413 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: thirties and forties. You know, if you're in one of 414 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: the original Hall of Fame classes or you know you're 415 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer, obviously that means something. And I 416 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: thought the voters like you did a really nice job 417 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: of sort of paying attention to those details and not 418 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: getting age biased. You know, as someone that understands the 419 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: history of the Mets, as you do with all the 420 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: years that you work for the Mets and now as 421 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: the vice president of Alumni Relations, you know how important 422 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: it is for the fans, right that connection to the past. 423 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: When you think about your giant fandom. What are some 424 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: of the things that really stand out that are tenants 425 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: for you that are so important. 426 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 3: Well, you know, guys like Frank Giffert coming back to 427 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 3: play after retired, he had tried to cry at his age. 428 00:21:59,160 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 3: Do what he did? 429 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 2: Uh? 430 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 3: You know, guys like Del Schaffer and uh, you know 431 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 3: what they did. And I remember I was in Pasadena 432 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 3: with SIMPS War twenty two or twenty five. I remember 433 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 3: I wasit the in Tampa when they lined up with 434 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 3: Norwood lined up for the kick. We went with a 435 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 3: friend of mine. I said, no matter what happens, if 436 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 3: he met, if he missed a kick, we had a 437 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 3: great season. I couldn't see it where I was sitting. 438 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 3: I remember going to Dennys after the game and you know, 439 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 3: having a good time, but just being there for the 440 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 3: you know, the friendships I you know, I didn't know. 441 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 3: I don't know a whole lot of Giants. I got 442 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 3: to know Shoreland Dead are pretty well. Bill Parcels used 443 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 3: to come to our spring trade in Florida. Gigantic you know, 444 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 3: uh baseball fan. He knew that he could recite the 445 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 3: fifty four Giants baseball team by hard to some of 446 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 3: the memories I was able to gather and and in 447 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 3: my friends with Pat Hammond is a gigantic you know, 448 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 3: Mets fan, and I'm a gigantic Giant fan. So we 449 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 3: kind of bond in and on the seasons. 450 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's funny that you mentioned that, because you know, 451 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: a lot of people associate the Giants, the Yankees, the Knicks, 452 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: the Rangers, right the four oldest teams in New York. 453 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: But the amount of met fans that are Giants fans 454 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: is very tangible. Talk a little bit about that. 455 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 3: My father was a diehard Giant fan. He went to 456 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 3: the polo grounds and I started going, you know, right 457 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 3: for the fifties on. And you know again, even when 458 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 3: I worked with him, A very few Giant fans in 459 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 3: my in this building city field, mostly Jet fans. But 460 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 3: I stuck to my guns. And you know, it's just 461 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 3: been a lot of great memories, you know, you know, 462 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 3: through the years. My dad, he saw Tuffy Liman's play 463 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 3: and who went to George ken Storm went to George 464 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 3: watching high school when my mother went to So just 465 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 3: like said, he just kept our family together. My mom 466 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 3: was a big fan. I remember going to the sixty 467 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: three game. I think we were sixteen to seven and 468 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 3: Jim Kallier we blocked a punt and he scored a 469 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 3: touchdown in the end zone. And I remember those years 470 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 3: they I think we lost their attackers. The next year. 471 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 3: I remember why Kittle's Bloody's face and the daily news 472 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 3: we lost fourteen to ten. So you know, I, you know, 473 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 3: I kind of get short in my old day, Bob. 474 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 3: I don't go crazy like I used to haven't broken anything. 475 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 3: But I'm still a die hard fan. Being way, I've 476 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 3: gotten older, so I got a kind of you know, 477 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 3: cool down to you know the historyonics, but he's still 478 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 3: really hard. 479 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: I could tell you that, Jay, I want to let's 480 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: go back to nineteen eighty six, because nineteen eighty six, 481 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: you know, the Mets win their first World Series since 482 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine. Uh, You've got Dwight Gooden, You've got 483 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: Darryl Strawberry, Keith Hernandez, Gary Carter, Keith Mitchell, you know 484 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: Ray Knight. It's an unbelievable team, Dykesterra and Backman. Uh 485 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: and then the pitching staff with Darling and Gooden, and 486 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: you know the energy that the Mets brought to this city. 487 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: And currently your favorite football team is doing the same thing, 488 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: like that famous Monday night game against Washington is the 489 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: Mets are winning the World Series and the Giants are 490 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: winning a pivotal game. 491 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 3: What was it? I alwayst got fired because I'll tell 492 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 3: what happened. This was Game six, right, I forget it was. 493 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 3: Game six was postpone one time and I had to 494 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 3: redskin giant game on and my jam at the time 495 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 3: late for I catched walks by said, hey, which TV 496 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 3: worked for? It shut the damn football game up, put 497 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 3: the baseball game on. So I did a podcast with 498 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 3: Phil Simpson. They said, remember during the game, all the 499 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 3: crowd burst into cheers and nobody knew what happened. I 500 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 3: guess they put it on the score round. Just forget 501 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 3: whether it was game six or game seven. It had 502 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 3: to be. It had to be Monday night. It had 503 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 3: to be game six seven, right, I think it's when 504 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 3: we would Yeah. 505 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: I think because of the rain delay, right, yeah, yeah, 506 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: because yeah, because it wasn't the wasn't the the Mookie 507 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: Wilson game. The the Saturday night and then Sunday got 508 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: out and. 509 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 3: The next day was Russia shown And that's another long stormy. 510 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 3: Robbie got mad because I worked that day. But yeah, 511 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 3: there was postphone and I was watching the Giant game 512 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 3: in the middle of Game six, you know, or Game seven, 513 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 3: and was I got to keep my logy straight? I said, well, 514 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 3: if I can, I rooted for the Giants, logan I 515 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 3: rooted for Mets. I think I'm titled to have the 516 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 3: game on. It was too happy with me, though. 517 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was you know, if you think about 518 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,479 Speaker 1: some of the biggest stars right in New York at 519 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: that time, sports stars. You had the players on your team, 520 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: and then you had Lawrence Taylor and that Giant defense. 521 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: It was a pretty special time in New York, wasn't it. 522 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 2: It was? 523 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 3: You know, when I did a podcast, Harry Carson was 524 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 3: nice to do podcasts with me and he had a 525 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 3: Mets Jersey ar. We really chilled me to the bone, 526 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 3: you know. Was it was an exciting time. I mean, 527 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 3: we you know, I guess a lot of the guys 528 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 3: were friendly. I remember Donald tell me he did a 529 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 3: lot of car shows with lt Andy to actually do 530 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 3: it to something with Laurence Hill this week, So there's 531 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 3: a lot of bonding. And you know, was that we 532 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 3: just had a really you know, exciting group of guys 533 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 3: on the team. And when I came to work, and 534 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,719 Speaker 3: I mean it happened on the back pages, it kept 535 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 3: me busy. I'll tell you that when we Giants and 536 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 3: Mention was a pretty exciting time in New York. 537 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: When the Giants wound up going on to win the 538 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: World Series, they hadn't won a championship. They had a 539 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: bunch of near misses in the fifties and early sixties, 540 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: but they hadn't won a championship since nineteen fifty six. 541 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,479 Speaker 1: And you know, there was a long time for Giants 542 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: fans me included as a kid, where you felt like 543 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: super Bowls were for other teams, Like we were in 544 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: a separate league. What was it like as that team 545 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: won a Super Bowl? Did you ever think you'd see 546 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: what happen? 547 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 3: I went through the Goodbye Ali stuff, the plays flight overhead, 548 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,959 Speaker 3: you know, George Young coming on, and I could tell 549 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 3: you a bossy bomp. I've never ever booted a game, 550 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 3: never once booed. I used to root and I you know, 551 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 3: I go back to Glenn Griffrey and Raf Guyami. I 552 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 3: got to the time in the seventies, even parcels web 553 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 3: first year, three and twelve. I just never saw that 554 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 3: the team was so was that the fourteen and two year, 555 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 3: the first year, yeah, Eddy sixth, they were so good 556 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 3: that year. But you know, you go into one game 557 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 3: playoffs like the playoffs now anything can happen, you know, 558 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 3: But there were so many good players that Sims was 559 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 3: so good and Joe Mars was so good, and I 560 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 3: honestly I would have ruined the matter. What But Honestly, 561 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 3: I didn't. I just didn't think it would come. And 562 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 3: uh but Phil was so great and uh, you know, Pasadena, 563 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 3: you know something I'll never remember it still remember twenty two, 564 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 3: twenty five to this day. 565 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: Obviously you moved to the conflin here and they built 566 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: their own special run starting with ELI coming in two 567 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: thousand and four, playoffs in five and six, and then 568 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: that amazing Super Bowl run. And you know, a lot 569 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: of people will say the eight team was the best 570 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: team of the mall, although they didn't win the Super Bowl. 571 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: But what was it like sort of re energizing yourself 572 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: as a fan as this new era of Giants came 573 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: into four and started becoming regulars in the playoffs, and 574 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: obviously ELI went into two Super Bowls. 575 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, probably one of the great trades in any sports history. 576 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 3: ELI manning for Philip Rivers. Just you know, Kyle, I 577 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 3: love to wait. Cogland coach is a tough guy. But 578 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 3: you know, I guess you made some injuctions later on. 579 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 3: But just seeing all the good players is straight hands 580 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 3: and adjustin tucks and you know, you know, I remember 581 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 3: I was in Phoenix when Burroughs crossed the pass right 582 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 3: in front of me and the other end zone. And 583 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 3: then the next time man and him quit the ball 584 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 3: along the sidelines. You know, when everybody talks about you know, 585 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 3: you know, uh, it's David Tyree's catch. But I still 586 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 3: to this day how you know Eli escaped that tackle 587 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 3: and was able to get the ball around you know, 588 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 3: I mean it was I actually remember seeing the place. 589 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 3: I don't remember maybe when I had for breakfast yesterday, 590 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 3: but I remember what happened forty years ago with the place. 591 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 3: But it was just, you know, it's back to my parents. 592 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 3: You know, James became mistable of my life. It was 593 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 3: more than just a game, you know, it was just 594 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 3: you know, can't wait for Sundays used to you know, 595 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 3: Chris sheenko Aldi Regarddess the whole bid. I've been hooked 596 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 3: since a long time ago, and hopefully this will be 597 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 3: a different kind of year for us. 598 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: Jay just kind of wrapping up as you look at 599 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: this list. You know, over five thousand men have worn 600 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: a Giant's uniform since nineteen twenty five, a whole bunch 601 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: of Hall of famers, all time great Giants players. When 602 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: you look at the totality of this one hundred, what's 603 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: the first thought that comes to. 604 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 3: Your mind, pros they didn't play the game the right way. 605 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 3: They you know they they they were clutch players, played 606 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 3: the game the right way. And you know they didn't 607 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 3: take time off. They didn't you know, miss time because injuries. 608 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 3: I remember different I was getting killed on the field. 609 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 3: Just the way to approach the game. But professionalism with 610 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 3: the coaches, with Coach Cogland and coach for ourselves, just 611 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 3: the way they play the game. And even with times 612 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 3: were dark as it came up and won, like the 613 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 3: Freeze Bowl in Green Bay, you know, the David the 614 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 3: Lawrence times kicks. They always came up with the big plays. 615 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 3: That's why I mean, I bet every guy in I 616 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 3: was had one big play during his career. You know, 617 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 3: I think that really encapsulates what those hundred guys were there. 618 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: Jay, we appreciate you spend a little time with us. 619 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: I want to thank you again for being part of 620 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: that Blue Ribbon panel and uh, you know, enjoy this 621 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: one hundred season. 622 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 3: It's pleasure to be above Bob. It helps us see 623 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 3: it to state sometime soon. 624 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: We will That's Jay Horowitz, one of the voters, one 625 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: of the thirteen Blue Ribbon Panel voters, longtime pr men 626 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: with the New York Mets, now the VP of Alumni Relations, 627 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: joining us on this edition of Pop Perspective, brought to 628 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: you by Bob's Discount Furniture, the official furniture store and 629 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: a mattress partner of the New York Giants.