Speaker 1: Welcome to It could Happen Here a podcast about things
Speaker 1: falling apart and occasionally also about what you can do
Speaker 1: about it. And today we're doing We're We're going, We're
Speaker 1: we're going completely full into it what you can do
Speaker 1: about an episode and specifically we're gonna be talking about unions,
Speaker 1: union organizing, the basics of what they are and also
Speaker 1: some of the history of it and to to talk
Speaker 1: with us about this. I have brought. I brought my
Speaker 1: good friend John Horonomus, who is a nurse steward with
Speaker 1: National Nurses United in Chicago. Hi, John, how are you?
Speaker 1: How are you doing? I'm doing good. Yesterday was my
Speaker 1: first full day back at work after being out on
Speaker 1: light duty from having covid UH for this last year.
Speaker 1: And so I got home yesterday and was pretty tired
Speaker 1: because I haven't walked that much in a day. It's fine,
Speaker 1: but I mean it was a good day. I got
Speaker 1: lots of plugs from my coworkers. I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: forget anyone's name, which I was terrified of um, and
Speaker 1: didn't suck anything up um. And then when I got
Speaker 1: when I got home, I hopped on after I got
Speaker 1: my kids from school, I hopped on a union organizing
Speaker 1: call with twenty nurses from a hospital in the South.
Speaker 1: We're very excited about so um I was it was
Speaker 1: it was a big day that that rules. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess that should also do a do a very
Speaker 1: very brief long COVID check in, because this is an
Speaker 1: everything that I think people are talking about that is
Speaker 1: also like a huge labor issue, which is that Yeah,
Speaker 1: like long COVID fucking sucks and like I like I know,
Speaker 1: like like like one of my cousins had it, and
Speaker 1: you know, they they've been in bad shape for a
Speaker 1: long time, like they still can't taste properly, and like
Speaker 1: they I think you got from from what I remember,
Speaker 1: like pretty bad, like in terms of yeah, sorry if
Speaker 1: you don't, we don't want to, but oh I don't care.
Speaker 1: I mean I think people should like know that this
Speaker 1: is still going on, like the pandemic is still happening. Um,
Speaker 1: people are still getting sick and some are still dying,
Speaker 1: which really sucks. And the long COVID thing is real.
Speaker 1: Um they I didn't get sick in the sense of
Speaker 1: showing up having to be in like a hospital or
Speaker 1: I see you or anything like that. Mine book. I
Speaker 1: got sick, and um, the recovery, like the the year
Speaker 1: or the month or so after I got sick was
Speaker 1: when things actually got bad because something happened with my
Speaker 1: um my nerves and my neuro I had a neuromuscular
Speaker 1: variant of like the long COVID symptoms, and that led
Speaker 1: me to having all its kinds of issues with basically
Speaker 1: just being exhausted from basic things. Anything more than just
Speaker 1: getting up and walking around. I would have to like
Speaker 1: lay in bed afterwards. And it would add multiple episodes
Speaker 1: of the past year where I would cross some invisible
Speaker 1: line in terms of like endurance and then be stuck
Speaker 1: in bed for a week. And so it's been a
Speaker 1: long thing. But I've been slowly getting better, And people
Speaker 1: who fall into that neuromuscular thing do slowly get better.
Speaker 1: I think that's the upshot. People with heart problems, those
Speaker 1: tend to be permanent and aren't getting better, which sucks, um,
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's just like I think that
Speaker 1: a lot of people. It's a very weird, surreal thing
Speaker 1: to watch what is effectively like a like a a
Speaker 1: global public health catastrophe get politicized the way it has
Speaker 1: and treated the way it has been by everybody involved.
Speaker 1: So Um, anyway, I just I'm doing better with that,
Speaker 1: and it's shaped me over the last year, and it's
Speaker 1: shaped union organizing. And UM, I'm glad that I would
Speaker 1: say this to people who are thinking about unions. I'm
Speaker 1: glad that I had the union kind of backing me up, um,
Speaker 1: even when I had to pull them a little bit
Speaker 1: in the direct the right direction. Uh, it's much better
Speaker 1: to have that kind of collective power behind you when
Speaker 1: you're dealing with those kind of problems. So that's actually
Speaker 1: a good way into looking at just sort of in
Speaker 1: general what a union is, because I think there's there's
Speaker 1: there's two things here. There is what a union is
Speaker 1: legally and what a union actually is in terms of
Speaker 1: just the people in it and the sort of power
Speaker 1: behind it. And so I was wondering if you could, well, one,
Speaker 1: I mean, just on an incredibly basic level, explain what
Speaker 1: a union is like legally, like what is legally defined
Speaker 1: as doing, because I feel like that's also something that
Speaker 1: is not as well understood as it should be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. So in the United States, there's a series
Speaker 1: of is it kind of regulate um, you know, the
Speaker 1: kind of collective UM bargaining UM and collective organization of
Speaker 1: workers at work UM. An important thing to understand is
Speaker 1: that UM, those laws are mostly designed to constrain workers
Speaker 1: power to affect their their you know, working conditions. UM.
Speaker 1: And so when you look at what a union legally
Speaker 1: is UM, unions are, for the most part, UM, they're
Speaker 1: legal organizations that kind of like operate on a dues basis.
Speaker 1: So if you're in a union, you're paying dues out
Speaker 1: of your paycheck. UM. If you work at a unionized workplace,
Speaker 1: those dudes will get subtracted out regardless of your membership
Speaker 1: or activity within the union. UM. One thing that people
Speaker 1: don't understand is that you can if you don't want
Speaker 1: your dues to go to anything besides supporting organizing your
Speaker 1: particular workplace, you can request unions are legally required to
Speaker 1: offer you that as an option UM. And then those
Speaker 1: dudes get taken out of your paycheck and they get
Speaker 1: used to do things like rent a union hall, UM,
Speaker 1: pay staffers to help you with your organizing. UM. They
Speaker 1: get taken to do lobbying, various types of political activity.
Speaker 1: And so for a lot of people, unions will feel
Speaker 1: like a professional association that lobbies on their behalf rather
Speaker 1: than a collective expression of the will of workers in
Speaker 1: a particular workplace. But UM, or it'll feel like patronage
Speaker 1: machine for you know, Democratic party, that sort of stuff. UM.
Speaker 1: But that being said, UM, unions all have by laws,
Speaker 1: they all have mechanisms by which there you know, theoretically
Speaker 1: democratically accountable to the membership UM. And there are oftentimes
Speaker 1: UM campaigns by workers to change how unions operate and UM.
Speaker 1: And then also you know, when you're setting up a union,
Speaker 1: if you're in a new if you're in a place
Speaker 1: that doesn't have a union and you're looking to get
Speaker 1: a union because you're fed up with not having any
Speaker 1: kind of power over your workplace, or you feel like
Speaker 1: people are getting discriminity against or bullied, UM, you feel
Speaker 1: like you haven't gotten a raise, UM, those sorts of things.
Speaker 1: You can pick the union that you decide if you
Speaker 1: want to get up a collective bargaining agreement, which is
Speaker 1: a legal contract kind of like dictating how your workplace
Speaker 1: operates in a uniform way. You can pick the union
Speaker 1: that you want to organize with in their union that
Speaker 1: are better to organize with, that are more democratic and
Speaker 1: more collectively accountable. There are unions that are more organized
Speaker 1: or more focused on actually building the union power and
Speaker 1: organizing new workplaces. And then there are unions that are
Speaker 1: kind of like there, you know, and I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: that kind of blur. In the US, there's like a
Speaker 1: blurry line between rank and file unions and business unions
Speaker 1: because even rank and file unions are kind of constrained
Speaker 1: by the same pressures that business unions operate under. And
Speaker 1: I'll explain the difference. I'll sell any difference in a second,
Speaker 1: but I just want to say that, like when you're
Speaker 1: when you're getting a new union, it's really important for
Speaker 1: you to critically look at what your options are and
Speaker 1: you're set and who you're organizing with, because unions have
Speaker 1: different cultures and different amounts of um, different kinds of politics,
Speaker 1: and you should be aware of that before you and
Speaker 1: your coworkers decide to commit to work with one union
Speaker 1: while you're getting an or a union organized um. And
Speaker 1: then I can explain that next part if you want
Speaker 1: me to. All right, so yeah, so, and you know,
Speaker 1: if you get deep into union history and deep into
Speaker 1: organizing and figuring out like what unions are and what
Speaker 1: they do and how they've worked kind of in the past.
Speaker 1: You'll find that there's different types of unions. So American
Speaker 1: unions started as like kind of like craft guilds, where
Speaker 1: basically you would have a factory that might have like
Speaker 1: twenty different unions of each individual group of people UM
Speaker 1: in each individual skill set would be underneath the union,
Speaker 1: and it was used as a way to kind of
Speaker 1: control UM who was able to do the work and
Speaker 1: who was getting hired in to do the work. And
Speaker 1: a lot of times that would end up in the
Speaker 1: United States UM being segregated UM and there would be
Speaker 1: these called union scabbing where you would go in and
Speaker 1: do work against people who are striking because your union
Speaker 1: was fine and you were cool with your boss and
Speaker 1: these other people whatever their problem is, you're just going
Speaker 1: to keep doing. The boss will offer you more money
Speaker 1: and you'll do the work right. So, and a lot
Speaker 1: of that has kind of carried into we called trade
Speaker 1: unions in the US a specific and trade unionism is
Speaker 1: particularly UM prominent in UH in construction. So you'll have
Speaker 1: carpenters and you'll have you know, Mason's, and you'll have
Speaker 1: you know, pipe fitters and iron workers and all these
Speaker 1: different guys and they all kind of come together and
Speaker 1: work as a crew for like a construction company, and
Speaker 1: oftentimes their union operates more like a contractor than like
Speaker 1: a collective like expression of the power of those workers.
Speaker 1: So um, then there are more there are unions that
Speaker 1: are would be considered like industrial unions, So industrial unions.
Speaker 1: Industrial unionism was invented by a union a hundred years
Speaker 1: ago called the Industrial Workers of the World, and they
Speaker 1: were like, what if we got took all of the
Speaker 1: workers in an industry and got them into one big union, right,
Speaker 1: and then what if all those workers in those different
Speaker 1: industries were talking to each other and building their their power.
Speaker 1: And the goal would be that you would become so
Speaker 1: powerful that you could basically take over industries as workers
Speaker 1: and run them on a democratic basis so that you
Speaker 1: wouldn't have you kind of liquidate capital and want to
Speaker 1: I want to say that this briefly awesome, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: so the bosses did not like this. I mean the MW,
Speaker 1: Like the MW was so feared that like like there's
Speaker 1: only the Everett massacre where it's like it got to
Speaker 1: a point in the early en hundreds, where just a
Speaker 1: group of IWW people showing up to a place was
Speaker 1: enough to get like the the the the entire like
Speaker 1: the entire city police force and like rounding up literally
Speaker 1: every right winger they could do and deputizing them and
Speaker 1: then just opening fire like into the crowd because like
Speaker 1: the IWW had showed up on a boat like this
Speaker 1: was these people were tired, like people were terrified of them.
Speaker 1: And I think that the other thing I think is
Speaker 1: really interesting about the early AWWS history is that is
Speaker 1: the so you know, part of the response to them
Speaker 1: is like they are just massive, and this is what
Speaker 1: the first red scare was, basically it was an anti
Speaker 1: IWW thing. And also you know, they shot people, they
Speaker 1: arrested people, they like they deported people. And but they
Speaker 1: also you know a lot of the things that I
Speaker 1: think we we have this tendency to look at as
Speaker 1: like a socialist reform where for example, like putting workers
Speaker 1: on corporate boards, right, or like like in internal democratic
Speaker 1: self management, but that's like, you know, that's still still
Speaker 1: sort of boss controlled, right, It's like, wow, okay, you
Speaker 1: have like a council of people who can make recommendations
Speaker 1: or like even even down to you know, we're going
Speaker 1: to have our own internal like corporate unions, like set
Speaker 1: up by the company. But you know that the corporate
Speaker 1: union gives you a workers council, and the council can
Speaker 1: sort of control production, but you know, it's it's still
Speaker 1: it's still run by the bosses. Like all of these
Speaker 1: things were stuff that like the Rockefellers set up or
Speaker 1: like even even the earlier levels would set the stuff
Speaker 1: up because they were they were so scared of people,
Speaker 1: Like they were so scared if people just taking over
Speaker 1: stuff democratically, just running it just literally through the union
Speaker 1: that they were like, we will we will literally give
Speaker 1: you democracy in the workplace. We will give you like
Speaker 1: we will give you like workers on corporate boards literally
Speaker 1: just so long as you don't like take everything over. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that it's it's hard for people to imagine
Speaker 1: how intense like the struggle for getting any kind of
Speaker 1: rights in the workplace. I've been in the United States
Speaker 1: in particular. I think a lot of people think that,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, maybe not so much anymore, But when
Speaker 1: I was younger, you know, twenty years ago, people would
Speaker 1: be like, oh, you know, we're in America. We've got
Speaker 1: you know, like we've got all these things, like we've got,
Speaker 1: you know, an eight hour work day, and we've got
Speaker 1: like a weekend and all. And the thing is is
Speaker 1: that literally people were murdered to win those things, right,
Speaker 1: like if you like. The reason why we have an
Speaker 1: eight hour work day is because there was in Chicago
Speaker 1: a famous, uh, a famous strike that um ended up
Speaker 1: with a massacre of UM. It was like a police riot,
Speaker 1: and then they rounded up a bunch of union organizers,
Speaker 1: socialists and anarchists who were like involved in the labor
Speaker 1: movement at that time, and then the state of Illinois
Speaker 1: hung them. UM. And so the wife of one of them,
Speaker 1: of one of those people who was murdered at the
Speaker 1: Haymarket or they called them the Haymarket murders, h Albert
Speaker 1: Parsons was one of them. Her or his wife, Lucy Parsons,
Speaker 1: who was I had a very veritable kind of like
Speaker 1: not quite sure what her background was, but we do
Speaker 1: know that she was probably a former slave. Uh. Albert
Speaker 1: Parsons was a former Confederate. They got married in the South,
Speaker 1: became Southern Republicans, trying to like participate in radical reconstruction,
Speaker 1: and then they basically had to flee because they were
Speaker 1: um with their lives to the north. And uh. But
Speaker 1: after that whole trial and all that shook out, Lucy
Speaker 1: Parsons became a labor agitator across the United States fighting
Speaker 1: for the eight hour day and uh. And they memorialized
Speaker 1: the Haymarket Martyrs and something that I think some of
Speaker 1: your listeners will know about. Maybe they won't, but you know,
Speaker 1: made a made a a lot of people is like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's Russian or some foreign sort of thing. Now, that
Speaker 1: is an American labor addition that like started here, and
Speaker 1: it was because of a specific like the the labor
Speaker 1: movement in the movement for the eight hour day in
Speaker 1: the United States. So um, and that's kind of like
Speaker 1: once you go from the IWW and industrial unions as
Speaker 1: an idea, it got crushed in the twenties because it
Speaker 1: was so terrifying. There's a really good, uh, a really
Speaker 1: good essay on all that called The stop Watch and
Speaker 1: the Wooden Shoe by a guy named Mike Davis, who
Speaker 1: kind of explains how it is that IWW as the
Speaker 1: first union too not only um try and build workers organization,
Speaker 1: but to challenge workplace organization and to make those push
Speaker 1: back on how production was happening and fight something called
Speaker 1: the speed up where I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: who have worked have experienced this time where a boss
Speaker 1: will come in and say we're going to do things differently,
Speaker 1: and they'll either get rid of a worker and put
Speaker 1: all the extra work onto people who remain, or they'll
Speaker 1: change things so you're doing more with the same amount
Speaker 1: of time. Um, they got you know, they provoked a backlash. Um.
Speaker 1: There were like spectacular like general strikes. The first general
Speaker 1: strike in America in Seattle. There were i w W
Speaker 1: members who are key members of the Seattle Labor Council,
Speaker 1: which took craft unions and got their radicals together and
Speaker 1: coordinated a general strike, which is where there's a lot
Speaker 1: of tweets about general strikes, but general strikes require a
Speaker 1: lot of organization and coordination. We can talk about that
Speaker 1: later if we want to, but key thing is the
Speaker 1: i w W was always pushing for the organization necessary
Speaker 1: to pull off a general strike, and they did it.
Speaker 1: And so amongst those different things and their mind wars
Speaker 1: in Colorado, mine wars in Virginia, West Virginia. UM, they
Speaker 1: were the first union that was explicitly anti racist. Um.
Speaker 1: They they weren't perfect, but they were. But they organized
Speaker 1: multi racial unions in UM Philadelphia, the Docks, and various
Speaker 1: other places. They were one of the few unions that
Speaker 1: really took the first steps into organizing in the South
Speaker 1: in the way that um a lot of unions have
Speaker 1: kind of failed too since. And because they were so
Speaker 1: effective and so frightening, they got crushed. Yeah. I mean, also,
Speaker 1: what every thing I want I want to say about
Speaker 1: them is that like, like the WW fought in the
Speaker 1: Mexican Revolution because you know a lot of the WW
Speaker 1: members in California particular were like a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of indigenous people, a lot of sort of voted
Speaker 1: Mexican immigrants. So yeah, they had these huge gives and
Speaker 1: like the they like they I think, I think to
Speaker 1: this day this is still true outside of Puerto Rico,
Speaker 1: Like they are the only leftist movement that has ever
Speaker 1: like taking control of an American city, like they took
Speaker 1: to Lexico and Mexicality and like a bunch of the
Speaker 1: sort of the border area. Yeah. That that's that, that's
Speaker 1: you know, part of why it just escalates to everyone
Speaker 1: starts shooting them because well and and they were truly
Speaker 1: an international union because they were they focused on like
Speaker 1: longshoremen and organizing and docks, that sort of thing. There
Speaker 1: were members of the i w W organizing basically everywhere
Speaker 1: in the world, and they were considered part of like
Speaker 1: what was like a global movement. And we call them syndicalists,
Speaker 1: which is kind of like a an Italian term or
Speaker 1: French term um, which is this the you know, like
Speaker 1: like the Latin version of union of syndicate and um.
Speaker 1: There were similar unions across the world up through the
Speaker 1: early twentieth century until right about the time when the Russians,
Speaker 1: the Russian Revolution happened, and then there were subsequent crackdowns.
Speaker 1: And because these people were who oh I mean, the
Speaker 1: IWW was a mix of native native born Americans and immigrants,
Speaker 1: and they were painted as this foreign sort of force.
Speaker 1: They were un American. That was like the whole nexus
Speaker 1: of un Americanism as like an idea, and the US
Speaker 1: state was able to mobilize after World War One to
Speaker 1: really put that down and so so there's a lot
Speaker 1: of history there in that, but the idea of the
Speaker 1: industrial union didn't go away, right The union, the IWW
Speaker 1: was effectively dismembered and scattered. But a lot of people
Speaker 1: who had experienced as IWW members who had been in
Speaker 1: those strikes, UM didn't like just disappear. They didn't all
Speaker 1: get deported or sent away. UM. A lot of them
Speaker 1: kind of tucked their heads down and went back to work,
Speaker 1: you know. And in the nineteirties we saw the rise
Speaker 1: of another industrial the next step towards industrial unionism. So
Speaker 1: it's called the c i O, which is the Congress
Speaker 1: of Industrial Organizations. Now there were multiple at that point.
Speaker 1: There was the Communist part of USA, the Socialist Party
Speaker 1: of America, and UM, former members of the i w
Speaker 1: W and various like anarchists who were participants in kind
Speaker 1: of the organization of the c i O. And the
Speaker 1: thing about c i O was was that when they
Speaker 1: came together, UM, it was in the Great Depression had
Speaker 1: really kind of kicked off, and they were able to
Speaker 1: organize like really explosively across all these new industries. So
Speaker 1: they like the u a W United Auto Workers was
Speaker 1: like part of the c i OH, and they would
Speaker 1: they pioneered forms of strikes called sit down strike, which
Speaker 1: was basically a factory seizure. All the workers would just say,
Speaker 1: we're not going to walk out, We're going to lock
Speaker 1: ourselves in and we're going to sit down, and it's
Speaker 1: our factory now, and now you're going to have to
Speaker 1: negotiate with And it became this thing where it was
Speaker 1: like millions of people were in Like the I w
Speaker 1: W at any one time was like hundreds of thousands
Speaker 1: of people, and the c I O became a thing
Speaker 1: where it was millions of people and UM and at
Speaker 1: least at the beginning when they had there, when they
Speaker 1: had we're at the peak of their like power and militancy. UM,
Speaker 1: they were able to mobilize workers to take over factories,
Speaker 1: take over factories from some of the most powerful corporations
Speaker 1: on the earth on Earth. And you know, at the
Speaker 1: same time, UM, while they're doing this, the police and
Speaker 1: UH company, UM company security and vigilantes which had never
Speaker 1: gone away from like the IWW we're doing the same
Speaker 1: sorts of things. So they would regularly beat strikers. They
Speaker 1: would regularly there would be you know, regular labor massacres,
Speaker 1: um disappearances of various um of labor organizers or labor
Speaker 1: leaders or even just random workers that they thought were like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're a unionist. Um, you know, get in the back
Speaker 1: of this h get in the back of this truck.
Speaker 1: And then they were never seen again. Um. And then
Speaker 1: laws started to be enacted, I believe, out of fear
Speaker 1: that if this, if this movement didn't get somehow put
Speaker 1: under brought in under control, that there would be a
Speaker 1: revolution and so h. So that's when we started to
Speaker 1: see the enactment of laws like the National Labor Relations Act,
Speaker 1: which made having a union like that was the first
Speaker 1: time when being any union was considered legal at the
Speaker 1: federal level. And that Uh, the FDR and the New
Speaker 1: Deal Democrats basically attempted to broker something called labor Piece
Speaker 1: where they would say, we're no longer going to mobilize
Speaker 1: the state against workers in the way that we have previously.
Speaker 1: Now local police would still side with bosses, that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. But uh, and those sorts of massacres and
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff didn't really go away until like
Speaker 1: the forties. Um. But um, that was the beginning of
Speaker 1: because what you do see is unions get channeled into
Speaker 1: Once you have like a million people in the union,
Speaker 1: you have just enormous amounts of resources, all these dues
Speaker 1: coming in, you have the beginning of the labor bureaucracy,
Speaker 1: whereas before it would be you know, there would be
Speaker 1: hired you know, paid labor organizers, but they were always
Speaker 1: shifting around, and they were they were brought up as
Speaker 1: communists or socialists, and they had ideological commitments to building
Speaker 1: the power of the union and the power of workers
Speaker 1: that you know, if you are just you know, and
Speaker 1: someone with some ambition and decided you want to become
Speaker 1: like anyone at this point, you know, who wants to
Speaker 1: become a paid union staffer if you're like you know,
Speaker 1: if you care to and a lot of people, um,
Speaker 1: then being a union staffer was a different thing than
Speaker 1: is now. It was. I think I'm trying to remember
Speaker 1: the name of the president. I think it's John Lewis.
Speaker 1: John Lewis, who was a Republican back in the day said,
Speaker 1: you know, I think famously said at one point it's like,
Speaker 1: if you want to build a union, or if you
Speaker 1: want to build the house, you call a carpenter. If
Speaker 1: you want to build a union, you call communists and
Speaker 1: so uh and so they would literally would go to
Speaker 1: like the the you know, the Communist Party and say
Speaker 1: we need organizers, and the Communist Party did a lot
Speaker 1: of work to training people to be organizers, and they
Speaker 1: were militant, they were ready to throw down because to them,
Speaker 1: they were looking at this as part of a you know,
Speaker 1: class struggle against you know bosses and you know, a
Speaker 1: way of overthrown capital. Um. That kind of went through
Speaker 1: until World War two. And uh, when World War two hit,
Speaker 1: that's when the Soviet Union, which in many ways controlled
Speaker 1: what was happening with Communists with cp us A, basically
Speaker 1: said we need a labor piece because we need to
Speaker 1: support the war effort. And so that's when union started
Speaker 1: signing contracts with no strike clauses, and they started um
Speaker 1: agreeing that they would no longer strike um and and
Speaker 1: they started agreeing to things like speed ups. There used
Speaker 1: to be a time when uh, these mass industrial unions,
Speaker 1: the stewards would walk around with a whistle on their neck.
Speaker 1: They have a whistle on a lanyard. And any time
Speaker 1: that workers decided that this is like an example of
Speaker 1: how powerful these unions were. Not just like as like
Speaker 1: an organization, but every day at your workplace, if you
Speaker 1: thought that something was not right, or you were not
Speaker 1: being treated fairly, or somehow the contract was in breach.
Speaker 1: You would go to your steward, and your steward would
Speaker 1: pull out this whistle and would blow the whistle. It's
Speaker 1: called a whistle stop strike. And everyone would set down
Speaker 1: their tools until management would come out and they would
Speaker 1: either agree to pay more or stop what was happening
Speaker 1: and fix it. And so um, there was a time
Speaker 1: when strikes would be you would have intermittent work stoppages.
Speaker 1: So you wouldn't go out like indefinitely. You would go
Speaker 1: out on strike for like three months. Though that happened,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't just and it wouldn't just be your factory.
Speaker 1: It would be Hey, we're getting on the phone and
Speaker 1: we're calling our friends down the street at the next
Speaker 1: at your supplier. It's called a secondary strike. So if
Speaker 1: you're working at like a steel mill, and your steel
Speaker 1: mills dependent on coke from the next factory over, you're
Speaker 1: calling up your friends in the same union down the way,
Speaker 1: say stop sending coke, stop sending materials where these things
Speaker 1: to us. We're on strike, you guys, you all set
Speaker 1: your tools down, you go on strike, and it would
Speaker 1: and these strikes would like massively expand, so you would
Speaker 1: see things instead of seeing you know, we just went
Speaker 1: through Striketober, right, yeah, and we just and so we
Speaker 1: saw like what we call a strike wave, but in
Speaker 1: and in some ways it was a strike wave. But
Speaker 1: I think that we still don't I think it's so
Speaker 1: far away from living memory of what a real strike
Speaker 1: wave is, where people would go on strike in one
Speaker 1: factory and then the next factory, in the next factory,
Speaker 1: the next very it literally would be a wave of people,
Speaker 1: um going on strike. And this was all the result
Speaker 1: of all the organization that people had, in the militant
Speaker 1: attitude that people had about like how they were going
Speaker 1: to be treated at work. It's worth mentioning that one
Speaker 1: of the so the National Labor Relations Act, which because
Speaker 1: passed nine turty five, which is like that, you know,
Speaker 1: this is the beginning of labor piece like you know,
Speaker 1: it's okay, we'll give you the right to re union,
Speaker 1: but you cannot do secondary strikes like that, like this
Speaker 1: is this is explicitly banned in this if I'm remembering
Speaker 1: this right, is that there's a specific thing that says
Speaker 1: you can't do secondary strikes anymore. And you know, and
Speaker 1: this was this was you know, the the basis of
Speaker 1: this piece was that like yeah, as you sort of
Speaker 1: said before, it was like, well, okay, so the state
Speaker 1: will put their guns down, but the workers also essentially
Speaker 1: have to put their guns down. And yeah, and this
Speaker 1: this starts this whole process of you know, once once,
Speaker 1: once you lose like that kind of consciousness, and once
Speaker 1: you lose the practical experience of doing this stuff, it
Speaker 1: kind of it fades and and over time, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: the atrophies and and the unions get weaker and weaker
Speaker 1: because you know, like with without, like you know, on
Speaker 1: once you once you've set aside, right and you've decided
Speaker 1: that you're gonna essentially you know, okay, we're gonna we're
Speaker 1: gonna follow the laws. We're gonna sit down, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do this, We're gonna like negotiate in good faith, We're
Speaker 1: going to have all of this sort of um, you know,
Speaker 1: we're we're gonna go through the national relations board. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: at that point, people like people, people's willingness to pick
Speaker 1: the weapons back up that they put down just sort
Speaker 1: of continues to diminish. Well, I think, what is I mean?
Speaker 1: And so there was like a ten year period. So
Speaker 1: first there was like the first five you know, five
Speaker 1: ten years of c i oh was when we receive
Speaker 1: like this really like intense militancy within these unions. And
Speaker 1: halfway through like you know, the passage of that first
Speaker 1: long in the nineteen thirties, UM, that's when we started
Speaker 1: to see the erosion. And we constantly see I think,
Speaker 1: I think that people don't understand that our bosses are
Speaker 1: always trying to assert their control over work. And we'll
Speaker 1: see that like, UM, bosses will do all kinds of
Speaker 1: contortions as long as they get to stay in charge
Speaker 1: and that they're unquestioned. And I don't think we understand
Speaker 1: quite how long the long game is for UM, for management,
Speaker 1: for our bosses and for capital. And so you know,
Speaker 1: it starts with the National Labor Relations Act and then
Speaker 1: it goes through uh, UM, it goes through World War
Speaker 1: two and our World War two. That's when the c
Speaker 1: i O goes from you know, you know, millions of
Speaker 1: people to like tens of millions, and it becomes like
Speaker 1: a thing where like that's when you know, like Americans
Speaker 1: are in a union, right, UM, because I mean to
Speaker 1: the extent that that to the extent that UM, there
Speaker 1: were those compromises happened It didn't just compromise. It wasn't
Speaker 1: just like a failure of like oh, like we're just
Speaker 1: going to start capitulating. It's like there were interests inside
Speaker 1: the union. They're looking at like, well, this is a
Speaker 1: lot of resources and power that we have now, but
Speaker 1: wait until like it's you know of Americans paying union dudes,
Speaker 1: And there were people inside the Democratic Party who were
Speaker 1: willing to trade UM that labor piece for that. You
Speaker 1: would start to see, you know, that's when politicians would
Speaker 1: show up to UM two union halls to talk and
Speaker 1: try and get you know, and that's when you know,
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party it would be it wouldn't be unusual
Speaker 1: to hear Democratic polity titian UM say things about like
Speaker 1: labor that you would like that no politician would say today.
Speaker 1: And now that doesn't mean that they were like on
Speaker 1: the side of the workers, but you know, you would
Speaker 1: have literally, um President Eisenhower telling the president of US
Speaker 1: Steel to get fucked over like a general, like you're
Speaker 1: you're trying to shut down, like you know, this is
Speaker 1: like the the steel industry is the lifeblood of backbone
Speaker 1: of the American economy, um, you know, and you're trying
Speaker 1: to shut this down trying to kill the golden goose,
Speaker 1: like get back to work, let the pay these people
Speaker 1: what they're asking. Um. But you know, so you would
Speaker 1: see the people who kind of floated to the top
Speaker 1: of those UH unions trading there, trading away their workers
Speaker 1: power and their workers well being for more and more months.
Speaker 1: First off, there would be more money, so you would
Speaker 1: you like, they would start getting raises that were really substantial,
Speaker 1: and it would boost up a a union steel worker
Speaker 1: or union auto worker into what we consider like the
Speaker 1: comfortable middle class where people could like buy a like
Speaker 1: a fishing cabin or something up on a lake, send
Speaker 1: their kids to college, all these sorts of things that
Speaker 1: were just kind of like unobtainable sorts of things if
Speaker 1: you were the same in the same industry twenty years earlier,
Speaker 1: and um, and that felt like wins, you know, two people.
Speaker 1: And also in the nineteen forties, after World War Two,
Speaker 1: they passed the taff Hartley Act, which basically meant that
Speaker 1: they forced unions. Well they did, okay, they wrote into
Speaker 1: law that it was illegal to be a communist or
Speaker 1: an anarchist in UH in a union, and so they're
Speaker 1: literally still unions that still have language in their in
Speaker 1: their membership parts, or they're like I declare, I'm I've
Speaker 1: never been a member of the Communist Party. I'm not
Speaker 1: an you know, an anarchist. Uh, I mean like I've
Speaker 1: I have friends who have pulled that out. Now it
Speaker 1: doesn't have any effect now, but that was they basically
Speaker 1: took all the people, you know, the people that uh
Speaker 1: that were you know, the people that you would have
Speaker 1: called to build the union twenty years later or before,
Speaker 1: we're getting thrown out of unions. And that didn't happen
Speaker 1: in every like there were attempts to do that in
Speaker 1: all kinds of countries. They tried to do it in
Speaker 1: the UK, and the unions in the UK told basically
Speaker 1: told the government to go fund themselves, and they you know,
Speaker 1: it's like but because the leadership of the of the
Speaker 1: c I O Industrial unions began to see themselves more
Speaker 1: in alignment with are ruling class and are you know,
Speaker 1: like the Democratic Party, they decided that they were big
Speaker 1: enough that they didn't have to have militants involved anymore.
Speaker 1: And that's when you know, uh, people were literally would
Speaker 1: get fired out of they either either militants in staff
Speaker 1: would get fired or uh they would get fired out
Speaker 1: of factories if you're like a ranking file worker. So
Speaker 1: UM and that's when we begin to see the rise
Speaker 1: of what we call business unionism. And that's where we
Speaker 1: would have union bureaucrats would and UM would you know,
Speaker 1: would basically start making concessionary contracts. And this started, you know,
Speaker 1: back in you know, a lot of people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, back in the fifties, unions are really powerful,
Speaker 1: and they were powerful to get you know, like raises,
Speaker 1: but those races came at the expense of control over
Speaker 1: the work process. It came at the expense of the
Speaker 1: speed up UM and as unions like because the rank
Speaker 1: and file workers, like you're saying, you know, rank and
Speaker 1: file workers, and they see their things there, these tools
Speaker 1: getting put down, and they were more reluctant to pick
Speaker 1: them up, first off, is because of the amount of
Speaker 1: money that they're getting paid. And but they did push back.
Speaker 1: They were like this is I mean, like, there's a
Speaker 1: really great book called The Next Shift, UM by Give
Speaker 1: Your Win, and it's all about the shift from steel,
Speaker 1: the steel industry as like the center of the U.
Speaker 1: S economy to health care UM and how unions basically
Speaker 1: started to erode away there like throw it, like hand
Speaker 1: over their power in exchange for money. And then when
Speaker 1: they were told like there was UM and attempts to
Speaker 1: get socialized medicine and the under the Truman administration, and
Speaker 1: when they were basically uh, they they hit a speed
Speaker 1: bump in there and it got shot down. They decided
Speaker 1: that instead of trying to win those uh, those broad
Speaker 1: social reforms for everybody, they're like, well, we can use
Speaker 1: our our power to strike to get basically construct a
Speaker 1: private welfare state for our workers. And so that's when
Speaker 1: you begin to see UM things like uh. The they
Speaker 1: called them like the gold plate insurance plans for certain
Speaker 1: types of unionized workers, and those would kind of UM
Speaker 1: and those are kind of used as like a private
Speaker 1: welfare state for all those workers. And it was built
Speaker 1: with the assumption you're gonna have low cost workers basically
Speaker 1: doing all this care work UM, and oftentimes it would
Speaker 1: be women of color and UM. And through that you
Speaker 1: start to see this real sharp client from the sixties
Speaker 1: in like uh in union um, militancy UM. And that's
Speaker 1: when factory, when capital starts moving factories out of city
Speaker 1: centers where it's very easy to organize a factory when
Speaker 1: everyone lives within walking distance the factory, and when they're
Speaker 1: done with their shift at the factory, they're all at
Speaker 1: the bar outside the outside the factory gates, and you
Speaker 1: can just like if you want to have a union meeting,
Speaker 1: if you want organized even a wildcat strike, all you
Speaker 1: have to do is show up at the right bar,
Speaker 1: and that's where everyone is after they're done with their shift. UM,
Speaker 1: they started moving and dispersing the industrial capacity of the
Speaker 1: United of you know, the the US urban core out
Speaker 1: into suburbs. So that's now where you'll drive through rural
Speaker 1: Indiana and you'll pass like five factories and they're surrounded
Speaker 1: by nothing but corn fields. It's because it's a lot
Speaker 1: harder to organize auto workers when they all live thirty
Speaker 1: minute drive from each other and none of them hang
Speaker 1: out at the same bar anymore. Uh. And then you
Speaker 1: start to see UM. And all through that time, the
Speaker 1: commitments to anti racism are eroded, So you'll see UM
Speaker 1: jobs get start to get segregated out inside it's like
Speaker 1: steel mills and things like that. But then you know
Speaker 1: there's also the rise of rank and file movements to
Speaker 1: push back. So UM, all the while we're talking about this.
Speaker 1: There's always as workers who remember what these things were
Speaker 1: like and why and the power that they used to have,
Speaker 1: and they would do the best that they could to
Speaker 1: get organized and so UM there's a really good UM
Speaker 1: documentary you can find a YouTube called Finally Got the News.
Speaker 1: It's about the Dodge Revolutionary Union movement in Detroit, which
Speaker 1: was a rank and file reform movement organized by UM
Speaker 1: by black auto workers. They got like a fair amount
Speaker 1: of support from white auto workers because they're basically there's
Speaker 1: you know, interviews with U a W bureaucrats and they're
Speaker 1: just like, you know, we're getting people these raises. Why
Speaker 1: are they upset that they're like getting named in the
Speaker 1: factory right, or why are they getting upset that, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, black workers are constantly getting put into the
Speaker 1: shittiest jobs or the first to get laid off, that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. And that's a it's a really I
Speaker 1: suggest anyone has time. And that came out of like
Speaker 1: the I think that was immediately after the was getting organized,
Speaker 1: after the assassination Martin Luther King and all the riots
Speaker 1: that were happening in the h in the sixties, had
Speaker 1: like that late sixties period Um. In the seventies there
Speaker 1: was a teamster, the teamster rank and file rebellion. My
Speaker 1: grandpa was a teacher trucker. My grandma was a teamster.
Speaker 1: She was like a punch card operator. But yeah, sorry, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah no, I mean like teams, these unions got so
Speaker 1: big and they have that's how you end up with
Speaker 1: like there's u a W teaching assistance now, right, Um,
Speaker 1: Like how do you end up with these huge like
Speaker 1: uh unions? And during teams are rebellion And my grandpa
Speaker 1: would tell these stories like we're going on there would
Speaker 1: be a wildcat strike and they call it out over
Speaker 1: the CB radios. And the way they would enforce the
Speaker 1: picket line wasn't just like oh, we're gonna like standing
Speaker 1: in the road or something. They would hang coke bottles
Speaker 1: full of rocks over the overpasses, just high enough up
Speaker 1: to like that cars that pass underneath them. But if
Speaker 1: you hit one and you're in a truck, it funk
Speaker 1: up your day. Um. And that was like a really
Speaker 1: um like a really kind of like powerful pushback by
Speaker 1: rank and file workers against what they saw was the
Speaker 1: erosion of their power. Because I think that I think
Speaker 1: there's this sometimes amongst people who consider themselves to be
Speaker 1: left or whatever. There's like this kind of doom and
Speaker 1: gloom like, oh, it's only like we're only losing, right.
Speaker 1: But and there's been a lot of as the seventies happened,
Speaker 1: and capital is kind of reconfiguring itself in the middle
Speaker 1: of all the economic upheaval inflation. Um, Basically, they got
Speaker 1: to the point where we can't maintain labor peace and
Speaker 1: maintain profits, right, so they could maintain labor peace and
Speaker 1: have something more like a socialist system, or they can
Speaker 1: maintain control over the work process and just do everything
Speaker 1: in their power to destroy the power of workers. And
Speaker 1: they decided to do that. UM. So I think we
Speaker 1: were coming out of this kind of era where you know,
Speaker 1: if you were in a union and working at a factory, Um,
Speaker 1: there was a real threat that they're like, well, we're
Speaker 1: just gonna shut this factory down, and you know, not
Speaker 1: to get signed. Well, first it was the pet Go
Speaker 1: strike with Reagan. Reagan gets elected and air air traffic
Speaker 1: controllers decided they're going to go on strike and um,
Speaker 1: and they and Reagan decided he was going to break
Speaker 1: it and they brought in they Basically there was this
Speaker 1: bigger session. It was like this huge mess where people
Speaker 1: were really desperate for work, and um, you know, they said,
Speaker 1: we're going to hire anyone to be an air traffic
Speaker 1: controller and we're gonna break the strike. And that was
Speaker 1: the first real the first like that the beginning of
Speaker 1: the end of that final like that big moment era
Speaker 1: of industrial unionism in the United States. And we went
Speaker 1: from a place where you know, U a W had millions,
Speaker 1: the United Auto Work had millions and millions of workers
Speaker 1: and if you drove a car or a truck in
Speaker 1: its main America was made by union worker to this
Speaker 1: point where now the AW is around fifty people. I
Speaker 1: was shocked when I heard that, literally like two weeks ago. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, we just had the big U a W
Speaker 1: striker John Deer um. And there's been and you know,
Speaker 1: all through this while this is going on, Um, there's
Speaker 1: various union corruption scandals. And that's again the cause of
Speaker 1: like when you kick out all the people who have
Speaker 1: an ideological commitment to improving the lives of working people
Speaker 1: and building the power of working people out of this
Speaker 1: organization that's only existence is to like build the power
Speaker 1: of working people. Um, then you then you end up
Speaker 1: with people who are basically criminals, like you end up
Speaker 1: like there would be uh, I think Reagan scat like
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan was h was a union member, but he
Speaker 1: was like the union member for like a corrupt like
Speaker 1: there was like there was like a battle between like
Speaker 1: the c i O controlled union in like Hollywood and
Speaker 1: like the corrupt like Moss mobbed up union and the
Speaker 1: mobbed up union, like that was the side if I'm
Speaker 1: that that was a side that Ragant picked and uh
Speaker 1: and yeah, so it's like you could kind of and
Speaker 1: there was a lot of like media where they would
Speaker 1: be like you know, the Waterfront in various like movies
Speaker 1: and things talking about union corruption. And I think that
Speaker 1: union corruption is real and it's a it's when it happens,
Speaker 1: it's a huge problem. It shouldn't like it's in other
Speaker 1: countries like in like in Germany, if they found out
Speaker 1: like a union union official like misappropriated like two thousand euros,
Speaker 1: it would be a nationwide scandal like um also in
Speaker 1: uh in like European countries, like you pay union dues
Speaker 1: on a voluntary basis right in the US legally since
Speaker 1: we're a close shop system, like once you're at a
Speaker 1: union uh union workplace, your dues get taken, whether you
Speaker 1: know whether you're happy with the union or not. Now
Speaker 1: there are people will say that's really important because unions
Speaker 1: need every penny they can to fight where they have.
Speaker 1: But when unions have to fight for membership and make
Speaker 1: sure that their membership knows that they're getting like what
Speaker 1: they're paying for, you get a little bit more responsiveness.
Speaker 1: So I think that's another thing that especially people are
Speaker 1: thinking about unions and thinking about joining a union are
Speaker 1: creating getting any of the workplace. Just understand what a
Speaker 1: union is and how they work and where your money
Speaker 1: is going to, and that if you're unhappy with that,
Speaker 1: the best thing to do is to get involved with
Speaker 1: your union, to try and like get connected with your
Speaker 1: coworkers who have similar complaints and change the union. Because
Speaker 1: there's a saying it's like any union is better than
Speaker 1: no union. That's not always true, but it generally is.
Speaker 1: They're there. There's like a very small chance that like
Speaker 1: you're like living in nine nine China and like your
Speaker 1: union is like is controlled by like a commodation of
Speaker 1: the K and T and like literally the Chinese heroine trade.
Speaker 1: But you know that that Like, yeah, that like doesn't
Speaker 1: there there there are things where you'll have like they're
Speaker 1: my dad worked at a factory and there was it
Speaker 1: was a teamster organized factory, and like some of the
Speaker 1: stewards were bullies and literally like there were some people
Speaker 1: who were dealing drugs out of it. And they gave
Speaker 1: the the workers like try to bring in another union,
Speaker 1: and the and the management decided to offer to also
Speaker 1: try and desertify decertify the union at the same time,
Speaker 1: and the workers vote it to desert. And the thing
Speaker 1: is is that now that factory shut down and gone. Um,
Speaker 1: and I guess like the thing is is that you
Speaker 1: have to It's far better for workers to assert their
Speaker 1: rights within their union where they have some modicum of
Speaker 1: democratic control over what's going on than it is to
Speaker 1: just throw up your hands and like there's and do nothing,
Speaker 1: because if you do nothing, the boss is always doing something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like that's the thing is, like management is always organizing.
Speaker 1: They're always coming up with ways to like to undermine
Speaker 1: the control of workers at work, to pick people against
Speaker 1: each other. Um, we can get into it later, but like, uh,
Speaker 1: they want they'll use racism and those sorts of things
Speaker 1: to dole out favors or curry favoritism and like you know,
Speaker 1: put people against each other. So I think that it's
Speaker 1: important to just say that, like the union is going
Speaker 1: to be your only effective way to push back, well
Speaker 1: the union or collect did action, because I guess I
Speaker 1: also want to say that there are times when organizing
Speaker 1: union isn't the best solution to solving your problem at work. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: this is all about how do you solve problems at work? Right?
Speaker 1: And they're sometimes when you can do collective action that
Speaker 1: is protected as you know as labor organizing, but it's
Speaker 1: not done within a union and so and because America
Speaker 1: is the really best of place and you have right
Speaker 1: to work states and places where like being in a
Speaker 1: union is like literally illegal. Um sometimes putting the time
Speaker 1: you're like you can't get into a union and therefore
Speaker 1: you have to come up with other solutions. Or sometimes
Speaker 1: because the nature of a workplace, like getting a union
Speaker 1: is like it's very hard or like basically impossible, that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you can't organize. And I think that
Speaker 1: that's the thing that everyone needs to understand. I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like boosterism of unions amongst younger workers,
Speaker 1: because people just don't understand how they work or they
Speaker 1: haven't experienced in themselves. And I think it the main
Speaker 1: thing is is that you've got to be very careful
Speaker 1: with your time and understanding. Like building a union can
Speaker 1: take like ten years from the beginning of we're upset
Speaker 1: to now we have a collective bargaining agreement, or now
Speaker 1: we have a collective bargaining agreement. It could be another
Speaker 1: five or ten years before you actually get to the
Speaker 1: point where you're organized enough to go on strike. And
Speaker 1: people oftentimes think that that's like they look back at
Speaker 1: the history of things and they're like, oh, it's so easy.
Speaker 1: But back then people were taking all they mean they
Speaker 1: it took them years to build the the US labor
Speaker 1: movement into what it was at its peak. It took decades, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that we are kind of used to
Speaker 1: this instant gratification kind of stuff, and we have to
Speaker 1: understand that It's like, if you're going to be in
Speaker 1: a workplace where you're there for enough time to build
Speaker 1: the trust and relationships and understanding of how the work
Speaker 1: workplace works and keep your job and be someone that
Speaker 1: keep don't look at as like a shirt or whatever.
Speaker 1: Not that I don't think that people should you know,
Speaker 1: people should work as hard as they can and not
Speaker 1: any more harder than that. But whatever. Um. But I
Speaker 1: think that you know, I'm anti work, but you know
Speaker 1: that's the whole other thing. Unions are the best way
Speaker 1: to limit the amount of work that you have to do. Um,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna if you're going to uh, you know,
Speaker 1: work as a wage labor um. But I will just
Speaker 1: say that it's like I think that people don't. It's
Speaker 1: difficult sometimes to understand how much work goes into getting
Speaker 1: to the point of getting a union, but it's always
Speaker 1: worth putting the time in to get there. And you
Speaker 1: may not win the first try, but if you are
Speaker 1: if if the conditions are right and things like, you know,
Speaker 1: we make our history, but not in conditions of our choosing.
Speaker 1: Sometimes things don't work out, but not doing it is
Speaker 1: I think a it's detrimental to you and your co workers.
Speaker 1: And even times like I've talked with people who have
Speaker 1: been involved in campaigns where they got fired but then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden conditions improved afterwards, and they look
Speaker 1: at that as like, oh, ship, we didn't get our union.
Speaker 1: But everyone got raises and they change some things at work,
Speaker 1: and that's actually a victory. So you know, I think
Speaker 1: that I think of each other as like collective building
Speaker 1: collective power, and the amount of time it takes to
Speaker 1: do that is daunting, but I think it's the sort
Speaker 1: of thing that we need to do if we're serious
Speaker 1: about changing how we can actually like how our lives
Speaker 1: work and how much power we have outside of work,
Speaker 1: because unions are also places where we do things that
Speaker 1: affect outside of our work as well. It could happen
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Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could happen here, updated
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Speaker 1: for listening.