1 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to It could Happen Here a podcast about things 2 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: falling apart and occasionally also about what you can do 3 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: about it. And today we're doing We're We're going, We're 4 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: we're going completely full into it what you can do 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: about an episode and specifically we're gonna be talking about unions, 6 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: union organizing, the basics of what they are and also 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: some of the history of it and to to talk 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: with us about this. I have brought. I brought my 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: good friend John Horonomus, who is a nurse steward with 10 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: National Nurses United in Chicago. Hi, John, how are you? 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: How are you doing? I'm doing good. Yesterday was my 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: first full day back at work after being out on 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: light duty from having covid UH for this last year. 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: And so I got home yesterday and was pretty tired 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: because I haven't walked that much in a day. It's fine, 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: but I mean it was a good day. I got 17 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: lots of plugs from my coworkers. I didn't I didn't 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: forget anyone's name, which I was terrified of um, and 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: didn't suck anything up um. And then when I got 20 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: when I got home, I hopped on after I got 21 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: my kids from school, I hopped on a union organizing 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: call with twenty nurses from a hospital in the South. 23 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: We're very excited about so um I was it was 24 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: it was a big day that that rules. Oh yeah, yeah, 25 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: I guess that should also do a do a very 26 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: very brief long COVID check in, because this is an 27 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: everything that I think people are talking about that is 28 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: also like a huge labor issue, which is that Yeah, 29 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: like long COVID fucking sucks and like I like I know, 30 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: like like like one of my cousins had it, and 31 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, they they've been in bad shape for a 32 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: long time, like they still can't taste properly, and like 33 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: they I think you got from from what I remember, 34 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: like pretty bad, like in terms of yeah, sorry if 35 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: you don't, we don't want to, but oh I don't care. 36 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: I mean I think people should like know that this 37 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: is still going on, like the pandemic is still happening. Um, 38 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: people are still getting sick and some are still dying, 39 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: which really sucks. And the long COVID thing is real. 40 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: Um they I didn't get sick in the sense of 41 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: showing up having to be in like a hospital or 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: I see you or anything like that. Mine book. I 43 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: got sick, and um, the recovery, like the the year 44 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: or the month or so after I got sick was 45 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: when things actually got bad because something happened with my 46 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: um my nerves and my neuro I had a neuromuscular 47 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: variant of like the long COVID symptoms, and that led 48 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: me to having all its kinds of issues with basically 49 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: just being exhausted from basic things. Anything more than just 50 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: getting up and walking around. I would have to like 51 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: lay in bed afterwards. And it would add multiple episodes 52 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,399 Speaker 1: of the past year where I would cross some invisible 53 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: line in terms of like endurance and then be stuck 54 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: in bed for a week. And so it's been a 55 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: long thing. But I've been slowly getting better, And people 56 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: who fall into that neuromuscular thing do slowly get better. 57 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: I think that's the upshot. People with heart problems, those 58 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: tend to be permanent and aren't getting better, which sucks, um, 59 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's just like I think that 60 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people. It's a very weird, surreal thing 61 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: to watch what is effectively like a like a a 62 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: global public health catastrophe get politicized the way it has 63 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: and treated the way it has been by everybody involved. 64 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: So Um, anyway, I just I'm doing better with that, 65 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: and it's shaped me over the last year, and it's 66 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: shaped union organizing. And UM, I'm glad that I would 67 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: say this to people who are thinking about unions. I'm 68 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: glad that I had the union kind of backing me up, um, 69 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: even when I had to pull them a little bit 70 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: in the direct the right direction. Uh, it's much better 71 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: to have that kind of collective power behind you when 72 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: you're dealing with those kind of problems. So that's actually 73 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: a good way into looking at just sort of in 74 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: general what a union is, because I think there's there's 75 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: there's two things here. There is what a union is 76 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: legally and what a union actually is in terms of 77 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: just the people in it and the sort of power 78 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: behind it. And so I was wondering if you could, well, one, 79 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: I mean, just on an incredibly basic level, explain what 80 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: a union is like legally, like what is legally defined 81 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: as doing, because I feel like that's also something that 82 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: is not as well understood as it should be. Yeah, 83 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: for sure. So in the United States, there's a series 84 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: of is it kind of regulate um, you know, the 85 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: kind of collective UM bargaining UM and collective organization of 86 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: workers at work UM. An important thing to understand is 87 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: that UM, those laws are mostly designed to constrain workers 88 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: power to affect their their you know, working conditions. UM. 89 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: And so when you look at what a union legally 90 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: is UM, unions are, for the most part, UM, they're 91 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: legal organizations that kind of like operate on a dues basis. 92 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: So if you're in a union, you're paying dues out 93 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: of your paycheck. UM. If you work at a unionized workplace, 94 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: those dudes will get subtracted out regardless of your membership 95 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: or activity within the union. UM. One thing that people 96 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: don't understand is that you can if you don't want 97 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: your dues to go to anything besides supporting organizing your 98 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: particular workplace, you can request unions are legally required to 99 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: offer you that as an option UM. And then those 100 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: dudes get taken out of your paycheck and they get 101 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: used to do things like rent a union hall, UM, 102 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: pay staffers to help you with your organizing. UM. They 103 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: get taken to do lobbying, various types of political activity. 104 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:42,239 Speaker 1: And so for a lot of people, unions will feel 105 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: like a professional association that lobbies on their behalf rather 106 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: than a collective expression of the will of workers in 107 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: a particular workplace. But UM, or it'll feel like patronage 108 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: machine for you know, Democratic party, that sort of stuff. UM. 109 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: But that being said, UM, unions all have by laws, 110 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: they all have mechanisms by which there you know, theoretically 111 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: democratically accountable to the membership UM. And there are oftentimes 112 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: UM campaigns by workers to change how unions operate and UM. 113 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: And then also you know, when you're setting up a union, 114 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: if you're in a new if you're in a place 115 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: that doesn't have a union and you're looking to get 116 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: a union because you're fed up with not having any 117 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: kind of power over your workplace, or you feel like 118 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: people are getting discriminity against or bullied, UM, you feel 119 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: like you haven't gotten a raise, UM, those sorts of things. 120 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: You can pick the union that you decide if you 121 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: want to get up a collective bargaining agreement, which is 122 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: a legal contract kind of like dictating how your workplace 123 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: operates in a uniform way. You can pick the union 124 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: that you want to organize with in their union that 125 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: are better to organize with, that are more democratic and 126 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: more collectively accountable. There are unions that are more organized 127 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: or more focused on actually building the union power and 128 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: organizing new workplaces. And then there are unions that are 129 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: kind of like there, you know, and I'm gonna say 130 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: that kind of blur. In the US, there's like a 131 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: blurry line between rank and file unions and business unions 132 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: because even rank and file unions are kind of constrained 133 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: by the same pressures that business unions operate under. And 134 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: I'll explain the difference. I'll sell any difference in a second, 135 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: but I just want to say that, like when you're 136 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: when you're getting a new union, it's really important for 137 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: you to critically look at what your options are and 138 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: you're set and who you're organizing with, because unions have 139 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: different cultures and different amounts of um, different kinds of politics, 140 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: and you should be aware of that before you and 141 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: your coworkers decide to commit to work with one union 142 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: while you're getting an or a union organized um. And 143 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: then I can explain that next part if you want 144 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: me to. All right, so yeah, so, and you know, 145 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: if you get deep into union history and deep into 146 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: organizing and figuring out like what unions are and what 147 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: they do and how they've worked kind of in the past. 148 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: You'll find that there's different types of unions. So American 149 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: unions started as like kind of like craft guilds, where 150 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: basically you would have a factory that might have like 151 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: twenty different unions of each individual group of people UM 152 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: in each individual skill set would be underneath the union, 153 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: and it was used as a way to kind of 154 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: control UM who was able to do the work and 155 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: who was getting hired in to do the work. And 156 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: a lot of times that would end up in the 157 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: United States UM being segregated UM and there would be 158 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: these called union scabbing where you would go in and 159 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: do work against people who are striking because your union 160 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: was fine and you were cool with your boss and 161 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: these other people whatever their problem is, you're just going 162 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: to keep doing. The boss will offer you more money 163 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: and you'll do the work right. So, and a lot 164 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: of that has kind of carried into we called trade 165 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: unions in the US a specific and trade unionism is 166 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 1: particularly UM prominent in UH in construction. So you'll have 167 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: carpenters and you'll have you know, Mason's, and you'll have 168 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: you know, pipe fitters and iron workers and all these 169 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: different guys and they all kind of come together and 170 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: work as a crew for like a construction company, and 171 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: oftentimes their union operates more like a contractor than like 172 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: a collective like expression of the power of those workers. 173 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: So um, then there are more there are unions that 174 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: are would be considered like industrial unions, So industrial unions. 175 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: Industrial unionism was invented by a union a hundred years 176 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: ago called the Industrial Workers of the World, and they 177 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: were like, what if we got took all of the 178 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: workers in an industry and got them into one big union, right, 179 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: and then what if all those workers in those different 180 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: industries were talking to each other and building their their power. 181 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: And the goal would be that you would become so 182 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: powerful that you could basically take over industries as workers 183 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: and run them on a democratic basis so that you 184 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't have you kind of liquidate capital and want to 185 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: I want to say that this briefly awesome, Like yeah, 186 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: so the bosses did not like this. I mean the MW, 187 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 1: Like the MW was so feared that like like there's 188 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: only the Everett massacre where it's like it got to 189 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: a point in the early en hundreds, where just a 190 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: group of IWW people showing up to a place was 191 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: enough to get like the the the the entire like 192 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: the entire city police force and like rounding up literally 193 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: every right winger they could do and deputizing them and 194 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: then just opening fire like into the crowd because like 195 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: the IWW had showed up on a boat like this 196 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: was these people were tired, like people were terrified of them. 197 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: And I think that the other thing I think is 198 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: really interesting about the early AWWS history is that is 199 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: the so you know, part of the response to them 200 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: is like they are just massive, and this is what 201 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: the first red scare was, basically it was an anti 202 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: IWW thing. And also you know, they shot people, they 203 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: arrested people, they like they deported people. And but they 204 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: also you know a lot of the things that I 205 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: think we we have this tendency to look at as 206 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: like a socialist reform where for example, like putting workers 207 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: on corporate boards, right, or like like in internal democratic 208 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: self management, but that's like, you know, that's still still 209 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: sort of boss controlled, right, It's like, wow, okay, you 210 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: have like a council of people who can make recommendations 211 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: or like even even down to you know, we're going 212 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: to have our own internal like corporate unions, like set 213 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: up by the company. But you know that the corporate 214 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: union gives you a workers council, and the council can 215 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: sort of control production, but you know, it's it's still 216 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: it's still run by the bosses. Like all of these 217 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: things were stuff that like the Rockefellers set up or 218 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: like even even the earlier levels would set the stuff 219 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: up because they were they were so scared of people, 220 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: Like they were so scared if people just taking over 221 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: stuff democratically, just running it just literally through the union 222 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: that they were like, we will we will literally give 223 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: you democracy in the workplace. We will give you like 224 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: we will give you like workers on corporate boards literally 225 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: just so long as you don't like take everything over. Yeah, 226 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: I think that it's it's hard for people to imagine 227 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: how intense like the struggle for getting any kind of 228 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: rights in the workplace. I've been in the United States 229 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: in particular. I think a lot of people think that, 230 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: you know, uh, maybe not so much anymore, But when 231 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: I was younger, you know, twenty years ago, people would 232 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: be like, oh, you know, we're in America. We've got 233 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: you know, like we've got all these things, like we've got, 234 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, an eight hour work day, and we've got 235 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: like a weekend and all. And the thing is is 236 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: that literally people were murdered to win those things, right, 237 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: like if you like. The reason why we have an 238 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: eight hour work day is because there was in Chicago 239 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: a famous, uh, a famous strike that um ended up 240 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: with a massacre of UM. It was like a police riot, 241 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: and then they rounded up a bunch of union organizers, 242 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: socialists and anarchists who were like involved in the labor 243 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: movement at that time, and then the state of Illinois 244 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: hung them. UM. And so the wife of one of them, 245 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: of one of those people who was murdered at the 246 00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: Haymarket or they called them the Haymarket murders, h Albert 247 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: Parsons was one of them. Her or his wife, Lucy Parsons, 248 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: who was I had a very veritable kind of like 249 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: not quite sure what her background was, but we do 250 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: know that she was probably a former slave. Uh. Albert 251 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: Parsons was a former Confederate. They got married in the South, 252 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: became Southern Republicans, trying to like participate in radical reconstruction, 253 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: and then they basically had to flee because they were 254 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: um with their lives to the north. And uh. But 255 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: after that whole trial and all that shook out, Lucy 256 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: Parsons became a labor agitator across the United States fighting 257 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: for the eight hour day and uh. And they memorialized 258 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: the Haymarket Martyrs and something that I think some of 259 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: your listeners will know about. Maybe they won't, but you know, 260 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: made a made a a lot of people is like, oh, 261 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: that's Russian or some foreign sort of thing. Now, that 262 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: is an American labor addition that like started here, and 263 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: it was because of a specific like the the labor 264 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: movement in the movement for the eight hour day in 265 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: the United States. So um, and that's kind of like 266 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: once you go from the IWW and industrial unions as 267 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: an idea, it got crushed in the twenties because it 268 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: was so terrifying. There's a really good, uh, a really 269 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: good essay on all that called The stop Watch and 270 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: the Wooden Shoe by a guy named Mike Davis, who 271 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: kind of explains how it is that IWW as the 272 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: first union too not only um try and build workers organization, 273 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: but to challenge workplace organization and to make those push 274 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: back on how production was happening and fight something called 275 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: the speed up where I think a lot of people 276 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: who have worked have experienced this time where a boss 277 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: will come in and say we're going to do things differently, 278 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: and they'll either get rid of a worker and put 279 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: all the extra work onto people who remain, or they'll 280 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: change things so you're doing more with the same amount 281 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: of time. Um, they got you know, they provoked a backlash. Um. 282 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: There were like spectacular like general strikes. The first general 283 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: strike in America in Seattle. There were i w W 284 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: members who are key members of the Seattle Labor Council, 285 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: which took craft unions and got their radicals together and 286 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: coordinated a general strike, which is where there's a lot 287 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: of tweets about general strikes, but general strikes require a 288 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: lot of organization and coordination. We can talk about that 289 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: later if we want to, but key thing is the 290 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: i w W was always pushing for the organization necessary 291 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: to pull off a general strike, and they did it. 292 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: And so amongst those different things and their mind wars 293 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: in Colorado, mine wars in Virginia, West Virginia. UM, they 294 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: were the first union that was explicitly anti racist. Um. 295 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: They they weren't perfect, but they were. But they organized 296 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: multi racial unions in UM Philadelphia, the Docks, and various 297 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: other places. They were one of the few unions that 298 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: really took the first steps into organizing in the South 299 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: in the way that um a lot of unions have 300 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: kind of failed too since. And because they were so 301 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: effective and so frightening, they got crushed. Yeah. I mean, also, 302 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 1: what every thing I want I want to say about 303 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: them is that like, like the WW fought in the 304 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: Mexican Revolution because you know a lot of the WW 305 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: members in California particular were like a lot of a 306 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: lot of indigenous people, a lot of sort of voted 307 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: Mexican immigrants. So yeah, they had these huge gives and 308 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: like the they like they I think, I think to 309 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: this day this is still true outside of Puerto Rico, 310 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,239 Speaker 1: Like they are the only leftist movement that has ever 311 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: like taking control of an American city, like they took 312 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: to Lexico and Mexicality and like a bunch of the 313 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: sort of the border area. Yeah. That that's that, that's 314 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: you know, part of why it just escalates to everyone 315 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: starts shooting them because well and and they were truly 316 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: an international union because they were they focused on like 317 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: longshoremen and organizing and docks, that sort of thing. There 318 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: were members of the i w W organizing basically everywhere 319 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: in the world, and they were considered part of like 320 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: what was like a global movement. And we call them syndicalists, 321 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: which is kind of like a an Italian term or 322 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: French term um, which is this the you know, like 323 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: like the Latin version of union of syndicate and um. 324 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: There were similar unions across the world up through the 325 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: early twentieth century until right about the time when the Russians, 326 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: the Russian Revolution happened, and then there were subsequent crackdowns. 327 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: And because these people were who oh I mean, the 328 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: IWW was a mix of native native born Americans and immigrants, 329 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: and they were painted as this foreign sort of force. 330 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: They were un American. That was like the whole nexus 331 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: of un Americanism as like an idea, and the US 332 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: state was able to mobilize after World War One to 333 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: really put that down and so so there's a lot 334 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 1: of history there in that, but the idea of the 335 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: industrial union didn't go away, right The union, the IWW 336 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: was effectively dismembered and scattered. But a lot of people 337 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: who had experienced as IWW members who had been in 338 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,719 Speaker 1: those strikes, UM didn't like just disappear. They didn't all 339 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: get deported or sent away. UM. A lot of them 340 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: kind of tucked their heads down and went back to work, 341 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: you know. And in the nineteirties we saw the rise 342 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: of another industrial the next step towards industrial unionism. So 343 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: it's called the c i O, which is the Congress 344 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: of Industrial Organizations. Now there were multiple at that point. 345 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: There was the Communist part of USA, the Socialist Party 346 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: of America, and UM, former members of the i w 347 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: W and various like anarchists who were participants in kind 348 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: of the organization of the c i O. And the 349 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: thing about c i O was was that when they 350 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: came together, UM, it was in the Great Depression had 351 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: really kind of kicked off, and they were able to 352 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: organize like really explosively across all these new industries. So 353 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: they like the u a W United Auto Workers was 354 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: like part of the c i OH, and they would 355 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: they pioneered forms of strikes called sit down strike, which 356 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: was basically a factory seizure. All the workers would just say, 357 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: we're not going to walk out, We're going to lock 358 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: ourselves in and we're going to sit down, and it's 359 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: our factory now, and now you're going to have to 360 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: negotiate with And it became this thing where it was 361 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: like millions of people were in Like the I w 362 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: W at any one time was like hundreds of thousands 363 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 1: of people, and the c I O became a thing 364 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: where it was millions of people and UM and at 365 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: least at the beginning when they had there, when they 366 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: had we're at the peak of their like power and militancy. UM, 367 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: they were able to mobilize workers to take over factories, 368 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: take over factories from some of the most powerful corporations 369 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: on the earth on Earth. And you know, at the 370 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: same time, UM, while they're doing this, the police and 371 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 1: UH company, UM company security and vigilantes which had never 372 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: gone away from like the IWW we're doing the same 373 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: sorts of things. So they would regularly beat strikers. They 374 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: would regularly there would be you know, regular labor massacres, 375 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: um disappearances of various um of labor organizers or labor 376 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: leaders or even just random workers that they thought were like, oh, 377 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: you're a unionist. Um, you know, get in the back 378 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: of this h get in the back of this truck. 379 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: And then they were never seen again. Um. And then 380 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: laws started to be enacted, I believe, out of fear 381 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: that if this, if this movement didn't get somehow put 382 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: under brought in under control, that there would be a 383 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: revolution and so h. So that's when we started to 384 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: see the enactment of laws like the National Labor Relations Act, 385 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: which made having a union like that was the first 386 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: time when being any union was considered legal at the 387 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: federal level. And that Uh, the FDR and the New 388 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: Deal Democrats basically attempted to broker something called labor Piece 389 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: where they would say, we're no longer going to mobilize 390 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: the state against workers in the way that we have previously. 391 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: Now local police would still side with bosses, that sort 392 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: of thing. But uh, and those sorts of massacres and 393 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff didn't really go away until like 394 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: the forties. Um. But um, that was the beginning of 395 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: because what you do see is unions get channeled into 396 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: Once you have like a million people in the union, 397 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 1: you have just enormous amounts of resources, all these dues 398 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: coming in, you have the beginning of the labor bureaucracy, 399 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: whereas before it would be you know, there would be 400 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: hired you know, paid labor organizers, but they were always 401 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: shifting around, and they were they were brought up as 402 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: communists or socialists, and they had ideological commitments to building 403 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: the power of the union and the power of workers 404 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: that you know, if you are just you know, and 405 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: someone with some ambition and decided you want to become 406 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: like anyone at this point, you know, who wants to 407 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: become a paid union staffer if you're like you know, 408 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: if you care to and a lot of people, um, 409 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: then being a union staffer was a different thing than 410 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: is now. It was. I think I'm trying to remember 411 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: the name of the president. I think it's John Lewis. 412 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: John Lewis, who was a Republican back in the day said, 413 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, I think famously said at one point it's like, 414 00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: if you want to build a union, or if you 415 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: want to build the house, you call a carpenter. If 416 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: you want to build a union, you call communists and 417 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: so uh and so they would literally would go to 418 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: like the the you know, the Communist Party and say 419 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: we need organizers, and the Communist Party did a lot 420 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: of work to training people to be organizers, and they 421 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: were militant, they were ready to throw down because to them, 422 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: they were looking at this as part of a you know, 423 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: class struggle against you know bosses and you know, a 424 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: way of overthrown capital. Um. That kind of went through 425 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: until World War two. And uh, when World War two hit, 426 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: that's when the Soviet Union, which in many ways controlled 427 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: what was happening with Communists with cp us A, basically 428 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: said we need a labor piece because we need to 429 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: support the war effort. And so that's when union started 430 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: signing contracts with no strike clauses, and they started um 431 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: agreeing that they would no longer strike um and and 432 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: they started agreeing to things like speed ups. There used 433 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: to be a time when uh, these mass industrial unions, 434 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: the stewards would walk around with a whistle on their neck. 435 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: They have a whistle on a lanyard. And any time 436 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: that workers decided that this is like an example of 437 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: how powerful these unions were. Not just like as like 438 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: an organization, but every day at your workplace, if you 439 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: thought that something was not right, or you were not 440 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: being treated fairly, or somehow the contract was in breach. 441 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: You would go to your steward, and your steward would 442 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: pull out this whistle and would blow the whistle. It's 443 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: called a whistle stop strike. And everyone would set down 444 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: their tools until management would come out and they would 445 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: either agree to pay more or stop what was happening 446 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: and fix it. And so um, there was a time 447 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: when strikes would be you would have intermittent work stoppages. 448 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: So you wouldn't go out like indefinitely. You would go 449 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: out on strike for like three months. Though that happened, 450 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: you wouldn't just and it wouldn't just be your factory. 451 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: It would be Hey, we're getting on the phone and 452 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: we're calling our friends down the street at the next 453 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: at your supplier. It's called a secondary strike. So if 454 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: you're working at like a steel mill, and your steel 455 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: mills dependent on coke from the next factory over, you're 456 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 1: calling up your friends in the same union down the way, 457 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: say stop sending coke, stop sending materials where these things 458 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: to us. We're on strike, you guys, you all set 459 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: your tools down, you go on strike, and it would 460 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: and these strikes would like massively expand, so you would 461 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: see things instead of seeing you know, we just went 462 00:28:54,840 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: through Striketober, right, yeah, and we just and so we 463 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: saw like what we call a strike wave, but in 464 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: and in some ways it was a strike wave. But 465 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: I think that we still don't I think it's so 466 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: far away from living memory of what a real strike 467 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: wave is, where people would go on strike in one 468 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: factory and then the next factory, in the next factory, 469 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: the next very it literally would be a wave of people, 470 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: um going on strike. And this was all the result 471 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: of all the organization that people had, in the militant 472 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: attitude that people had about like how they were going 473 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: to be treated at work. It's worth mentioning that one 474 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: of the so the National Labor Relations Act, which because 475 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: passed nine turty five, which is like that, you know, 476 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: this is the beginning of labor piece like you know, 477 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: it's okay, we'll give you the right to re union, 478 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: but you cannot do secondary strikes like that, like this 479 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: is this is explicitly banned in this if I'm remembering 480 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: this right, is that there's a specific thing that says 481 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: you can't do secondary strikes anymore. And you know, and 482 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: this was this was you know, the the basis of 483 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: this piece was that like yeah, as you sort of 484 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: said before, it was like, well, okay, so the state 485 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: will put their guns down, but the workers also essentially 486 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: have to put their guns down. And yeah, and this 487 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: this starts this whole process of you know, once once, 488 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: once you lose like that kind of consciousness, and once 489 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: you lose the practical experience of doing this stuff, it 490 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: kind of it fades and and over time, you know, yeah, 491 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: the atrophies and and the unions get weaker and weaker 492 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: because you know, like with without, like you know, on 493 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: once you once you've set aside, right and you've decided 494 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: that you're gonna essentially you know, okay, we're gonna we're 495 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: gonna follow the laws. We're gonna sit down, we're gonna 496 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: do this, We're gonna like negotiate in good faith, We're 497 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: going to have all of this sort of um, you know, 498 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: we're we're gonna go through the national relations board. It's like, well, 499 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: at that point, people like people, people's willingness to pick 500 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: the weapons back up that they put down just sort 501 00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,959 Speaker 1: of continues to diminish. Well, I think, what is I mean? 502 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: And so there was like a ten year period. So 503 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: first there was like the first five you know, five 504 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: ten years of c i oh was when we receive 505 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: like this really like intense militancy within these unions. And 506 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: halfway through like you know, the passage of that first 507 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: long in the nineteen thirties, UM, that's when we started 508 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: to see the erosion. And we constantly see I think, 509 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: I think that people don't understand that our bosses are 510 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: always trying to assert their control over work. And we'll 511 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: see that like, UM, bosses will do all kinds of 512 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: contortions as long as they get to stay in charge 513 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: and that they're unquestioned. And I don't think we understand 514 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: quite how long the long game is for UM, for management, 515 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: for our bosses and for capital. And so you know, 516 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: it starts with the National Labor Relations Act and then 517 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: it goes through uh, UM, it goes through World War 518 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: two and our World War two. That's when the c 519 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: i O goes from you know, you know, millions of 520 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: people to like tens of millions, and it becomes like 521 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: a thing where like that's when you know, like Americans 522 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: are in a union, right, UM, because I mean to 523 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: the extent that that to the extent that UM, there 524 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: were those compromises happened It didn't just compromise. It wasn't 525 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: just like a failure of like oh, like we're just 526 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: going to start capitulating. It's like there were interests inside 527 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: the union. They're looking at like, well, this is a 528 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: lot of resources and power that we have now, but 529 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: wait until like it's you know of Americans paying union dudes, 530 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: And there were people inside the Democratic Party who were 531 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: willing to trade UM that labor piece for that. You 532 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: would start to see, you know, that's when politicians would 533 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: show up to UM two union halls to talk and 534 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: try and get you know, and that's when you know, 535 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party it would be it wouldn't be unusual 536 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: to hear Democratic polity titian UM say things about like 537 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: labor that you would like that no politician would say today. 538 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: And now that doesn't mean that they were like on 539 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: the side of the workers, but you know, you would 540 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: have literally, um President Eisenhower telling the president of US 541 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: Steel to get fucked over like a general, like you're 542 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: you're trying to shut down, like you know, this is 543 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: like the the steel industry is the lifeblood of backbone 544 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: of the American economy, um, you know, and you're trying 545 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: to shut this down trying to kill the golden goose, 546 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: like get back to work, let the pay these people 547 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: what they're asking. Um. But you know, so you would 548 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: see the people who kind of floated to the top 549 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: of those UH unions trading there, trading away their workers 550 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: power and their workers well being for more and more months. 551 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: First off, there would be more money, so you would 552 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: you like, they would start getting raises that were really substantial, 553 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: and it would boost up a a union steel worker 554 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: or union auto worker into what we consider like the 555 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: comfortable middle class where people could like buy a like 556 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,839 Speaker 1: a fishing cabin or something up on a lake, send 557 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: their kids to college, all these sorts of things that 558 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 1: were just kind of like unobtainable sorts of things if 559 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: you were the same in the same industry twenty years earlier, 560 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: and um, and that felt like wins, you know, two people. 561 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: And also in the nineteen forties, after World War Two, 562 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: they passed the taff Hartley Act, which basically meant that 563 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 1: they forced unions. Well they did, okay, they wrote into 564 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: law that it was illegal to be a communist or 565 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: an anarchist in UH in a union, and so they're 566 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: literally still unions that still have language in their in 567 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: their membership parts, or they're like I declare, I'm I've 568 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: never been a member of the Communist Party. I'm not 569 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: an you know, an anarchist. Uh, I mean like I've 570 00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: I have friends who have pulled that out. Now it 571 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: doesn't have any effect now, but that was they basically 572 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: took all the people, you know, the people that uh 573 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: that were you know, the people that you would have 574 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,720 Speaker 1: called to build the union twenty years later or before, 575 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: we're getting thrown out of unions. And that didn't happen 576 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: in every like there were attempts to do that in 577 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: all kinds of countries. They tried to do it in 578 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: the UK, and the unions in the UK told basically 579 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: told the government to go fund themselves, and they you know, 580 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 1: it's like but because the leadership of the of the 581 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: c I O Industrial unions began to see themselves more 582 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 1: in alignment with are ruling class and are you know, 583 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: like the Democratic Party, they decided that they were big 584 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 1: enough that they didn't have to have militants involved anymore. 585 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: And that's when you know, uh, people were literally would 586 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 1: get fired out of they either either militants in staff 587 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: would get fired or uh they would get fired out 588 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: of factories if you're like a ranking file worker. So 589 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 1: UM and that's when we begin to see the rise 590 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: of what we call business unionism. And that's where we 591 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: would have union bureaucrats would and UM would you know, 592 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: would basically start making concessionary contracts. And this started, you know, 593 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: back in you know, a lot of people are like, oh, 594 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, back in the fifties, unions are really powerful, 595 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: and they were powerful to get you know, like raises, 596 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: but those races came at the expense of control over 597 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: the work process. It came at the expense of the 598 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: speed up UM and as unions like because the rank 599 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: and file workers, like you're saying, you know, rank and 600 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: file workers, and they see their things there, these tools 601 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: getting put down, and they were more reluctant to pick 602 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: them up, first off, is because of the amount of 603 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: money that they're getting paid. And but they did push back. 604 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: They were like this is I mean, like, there's a 605 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: really great book called The Next Shift, UM by Give 606 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: Your Win, and it's all about the shift from steel, 607 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: the steel industry as like the center of the U. 608 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: S economy to health care UM and how unions basically 609 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,439 Speaker 1: started to erode away there like throw it, like hand 610 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: over their power in exchange for money. And then when 611 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: they were told like there was UM and attempts to 612 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: get socialized medicine and the under the Truman administration, and 613 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: when they were basically uh, they they hit a speed 614 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,760 Speaker 1: bump in there and it got shot down. They decided 615 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: that instead of trying to win those uh, those broad 616 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: social reforms for everybody, they're like, well, we can use 617 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: our our power to strike to get basically construct a 618 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,879 Speaker 1: private welfare state for our workers. And so that's when 619 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: you begin to see UM things like uh. The they 620 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 1: called them like the gold plate insurance plans for certain 621 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: types of unionized workers, and those would kind of UM 622 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: and those are kind of used as like a private 623 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 1: welfare state for all those workers. And it was built 624 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: with the assumption you're gonna have low cost workers basically 625 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: doing all this care work UM, and oftentimes it would 626 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: be women of color and UM. And through that you 627 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: start to see this real sharp client from the sixties 628 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: in like uh in union um, militancy UM. And that's 629 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: when factory, when capital starts moving factories out of city 630 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: centers where it's very easy to organize a factory when 631 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: everyone lives within walking distance the factory, and when they're 632 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: done with their shift at the factory, they're all at 633 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: the bar outside the outside the factory gates, and you 634 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: can just like if you want to have a union meeting, 635 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: if you want organized even a wildcat strike, all you 636 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: have to do is show up at the right bar, 637 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: and that's where everyone is after they're done with their shift. UM, 638 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: they started moving and dispersing the industrial capacity of the 639 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 1: United of you know, the the US urban core out 640 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: into suburbs. So that's now where you'll drive through rural 641 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,760 Speaker 1: Indiana and you'll pass like five factories and they're surrounded 642 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: by nothing but corn fields. It's because it's a lot 643 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: harder to organize auto workers when they all live thirty 644 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: minute drive from each other and none of them hang 645 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: out at the same bar anymore. Uh. And then you 646 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: start to see UM. And all through that time, the 647 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: commitments to anti racism are eroded, So you'll see UM 648 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: jobs get start to get segregated out inside it's like 649 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: steel mills and things like that. But then you know 650 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: there's also the rise of rank and file movements to 651 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: push back. So UM, all the while we're talking about this. 652 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: There's always as workers who remember what these things were 653 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: like and why and the power that they used to have, 654 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: and they would do the best that they could to 655 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: get organized and so UM there's a really good UM 656 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: documentary you can find a YouTube called Finally Got the News. 657 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,879 Speaker 1: It's about the Dodge Revolutionary Union movement in Detroit, which 658 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: was a rank and file reform movement organized by UM 659 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: by black auto workers. They got like a fair amount 660 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: of support from white auto workers because they're basically there's 661 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 1: you know, interviews with U a W bureaucrats and they're 662 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: just like, you know, we're getting people these raises. Why 663 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: are they upset that they're like getting named in the 664 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: factory right, or why are they getting upset that, you know, 665 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, black workers are constantly getting put into the 666 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: shittiest jobs or the first to get laid off, that 667 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And that's a it's a really I 668 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: suggest anyone has time. And that came out of like 669 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: the I think that was immediately after the was getting organized, 670 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: after the assassination Martin Luther King and all the riots 671 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: that were happening in the h in the sixties, had 672 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: like that late sixties period Um. In the seventies there 673 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: was a teamster, the teamster rank and file rebellion. My 674 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:21,280 Speaker 1: grandpa was a teacher trucker. My grandma was a teamster. 675 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: She was like a punch card operator. But yeah, sorry, yeah, 676 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: yeah no, I mean like teams, these unions got so 677 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: big and they have that's how you end up with 678 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: like there's u a W teaching assistance now, right, Um, 679 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: Like how do you end up with these huge like 680 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: uh unions? And during teams are rebellion And my grandpa 681 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,479 Speaker 1: would tell these stories like we're going on there would 682 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: be a wildcat strike and they call it out over 683 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: the CB radios. And the way they would enforce the 684 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: picket line wasn't just like oh, we're gonna like standing 685 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: in the road or something. They would hang coke bottles 686 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: full of rocks over the overpasses, just high enough up 687 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: to like that cars that pass underneath them. But if 688 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: you hit one and you're in a truck, it funk 689 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,359 Speaker 1: up your day. Um. And that was like a really 690 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: um like a really kind of like powerful pushback by 691 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: rank and file workers against what they saw was the 692 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: erosion of their power. Because I think that I think 693 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,239 Speaker 1: there's this sometimes amongst people who consider themselves to be 694 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: left or whatever. There's like this kind of doom and 695 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: gloom like, oh, it's only like we're only losing, right. 696 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,800 Speaker 1: But and there's been a lot of as the seventies happened, 697 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 1: and capital is kind of reconfiguring itself in the middle 698 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: of all the economic upheaval inflation. Um, Basically, they got 699 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: to the point where we can't maintain labor peace and 700 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 1: maintain profits, right, so they could maintain labor peace and 701 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: have something more like a socialist system, or they can 702 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,280 Speaker 1: maintain control over the work process and just do everything 703 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: in their power to destroy the power of workers. And 704 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: they decided to do that. UM. So I think we 705 00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 1: were coming out of this kind of era where you know, 706 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: if you were in a union and working at a factory, Um, 707 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: there was a real threat that they're like, well, we're 708 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,320 Speaker 1: just gonna shut this factory down, and you know, not 709 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 1: to get signed. Well, first it was the pet Go 710 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:19,280 Speaker 1: strike with Reagan. Reagan gets elected and air air traffic 711 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: controllers decided they're going to go on strike and um, 712 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,239 Speaker 1: and they and Reagan decided he was going to break 713 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: it and they brought in they Basically there was this 714 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: bigger session. It was like this huge mess where people 715 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 1: were really desperate for work, and um, you know, they said, 716 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 1: we're going to hire anyone to be an air traffic 717 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: controller and we're gonna break the strike. And that was 718 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: the first real the first like that the beginning of 719 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: the end of that final like that big moment era 720 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: of industrial unionism in the United States. And we went 721 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,760 Speaker 1: from a place where you know, U a W had millions, 722 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 1: the United Auto Work had millions and millions of workers 723 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: and if you drove a car or a truck in 724 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: its main America was made by union worker to this 725 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: point where now the AW is around fifty people. I 726 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: was shocked when I heard that, literally like two weeks ago. Um, 727 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: you know, we just had the big U a W 728 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,279 Speaker 1: striker John Deer um. And there's been and you know, 729 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 1: all through this while this is going on, Um, there's 730 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: various union corruption scandals. And that's again the cause of 731 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,719 Speaker 1: like when you kick out all the people who have 732 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: an ideological commitment to improving the lives of working people 733 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: and building the power of working people out of this 734 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,399 Speaker 1: organization that's only existence is to like build the power 735 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: of working people. Um, then you then you end up 736 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,360 Speaker 1: with people who are basically criminals, like you end up 737 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 1: like there would be uh, I think Reagan scat like 738 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan was h was a union member, but he 739 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,400 Speaker 1: was like the union member for like a corrupt like 740 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: there was like there was like a battle between like 741 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,840 Speaker 1: the c i O controlled union in like Hollywood and 742 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,480 Speaker 1: like the corrupt like Moss mobbed up union and the 743 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: mobbed up union, like that was the side if I'm 744 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: that that was a side that Ragant picked and uh 745 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: and yeah, so it's like you could kind of and 746 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,239 Speaker 1: there was a lot of like media where they would 747 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 1: be like you know, the Waterfront in various like movies 748 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,360 Speaker 1: and things talking about union corruption. And I think that 749 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,280 Speaker 1: union corruption is real and it's a it's when it happens, 750 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: it's a huge problem. It shouldn't like it's in other 751 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,920 Speaker 1: countries like in like in Germany, if they found out 752 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 1: like a union union official like misappropriated like two thousand euros, 753 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: it would be a nationwide scandal like um also in 754 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,799 Speaker 1: uh in like European countries, like you pay union dues 755 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:58,359 Speaker 1: on a voluntary basis right in the US legally since 756 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 1: we're a close shop system, like once you're at a 757 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:07,400 Speaker 1: union uh union workplace, your dues get taken, whether you 758 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 1: know whether you're happy with the union or not. Now 759 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,840 Speaker 1: there are people will say that's really important because unions 760 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,880 Speaker 1: need every penny they can to fight where they have. 761 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,759 Speaker 1: But when unions have to fight for membership and make 762 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 1: sure that their membership knows that they're getting like what 763 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,799 Speaker 1: they're paying for, you get a little bit more responsiveness. 764 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,239 Speaker 1: So I think that's another thing that especially people are 765 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: thinking about unions and thinking about joining a union are 766 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,560 Speaker 1: creating getting any of the workplace. Just understand what a 767 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: union is and how they work and where your money 768 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: is going to, and that if you're unhappy with that, 769 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,360 Speaker 1: the best thing to do is to get involved with 770 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,759 Speaker 1: your union, to try and like get connected with your 771 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: coworkers who have similar complaints and change the union. Because 772 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 1: there's a saying it's like any union is better than 773 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,880 Speaker 1: no union. That's not always true, but it generally is. 774 00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,080 Speaker 1: They're there. There's like a very small chance that like 775 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: you're like living in nine nine China and like your 776 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 1: union is like is controlled by like a commodation of 777 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,240 Speaker 1: the K and T and like literally the Chinese heroine trade. 778 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:27,040 Speaker 1: But you know that that Like, yeah, that like doesn't 779 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,919 Speaker 1: there there there are things where you'll have like they're 780 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,840 Speaker 1: my dad worked at a factory and there was it 781 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,080 Speaker 1: was a teamster organized factory, and like some of the 782 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,640 Speaker 1: stewards were bullies and literally like there were some people 783 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,280 Speaker 1: who were dealing drugs out of it. And they gave 784 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:50,240 Speaker 1: the the workers like try to bring in another union, 785 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 1: and the and the management decided to offer to also 786 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,719 Speaker 1: try and desertify decertify the union at the same time, 787 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 1: and the workers vote it to desert. And the thing 788 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,560 Speaker 1: is is that now that factory shut down and gone. Um, 789 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,080 Speaker 1: and I guess like the thing is is that you 790 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 1: have to It's far better for workers to assert their 791 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 1: rights within their union where they have some modicum of 792 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,920 Speaker 1: democratic control over what's going on than it is to 793 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 1: just throw up your hands and like there's and do nothing, 794 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,759 Speaker 1: because if you do nothing, the boss is always doing something. Yeah, 795 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,000 Speaker 1: Like that's the thing is, like management is always organizing. 796 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,880 Speaker 1: They're always coming up with ways to like to undermine 797 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,400 Speaker 1: the control of workers at work, to pick people against 798 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 1: each other. Um, we can get into it later, but like, uh, 799 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: they want they'll use racism and those sorts of things 800 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,200 Speaker 1: to dole out favors or curry favoritism and like you know, 801 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,359 Speaker 1: put people against each other. So I think that it's 802 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 1: important to just say that, like the union is going 803 00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,640 Speaker 1: to be your only effective way to push back, well 804 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,239 Speaker 1: the union or collect did action, because I guess I 805 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,400 Speaker 1: also want to say that there are times when organizing 806 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,520 Speaker 1: union isn't the best solution to solving your problem at work. Ultimately, 807 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,080 Speaker 1: this is all about how do you solve problems at work? Right? 808 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,759 Speaker 1: And they're sometimes when you can do collective action that 809 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:17,600 Speaker 1: is protected as you know as labor organizing, but it's 810 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,440 Speaker 1: not done within a union and so and because America 811 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,560 Speaker 1: is the really best of place and you have right 812 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: to work states and places where like being in a 813 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,879 Speaker 1: union is like literally illegal. Um sometimes putting the time 814 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,680 Speaker 1: you're like you can't get into a union and therefore 815 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,520 Speaker 1: you have to come up with other solutions. Or sometimes 816 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: because the nature of a workplace, like getting a union 817 00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 1: is like it's very hard or like basically impossible, that 818 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you can't organize. And I think that 819 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,960 Speaker 1: that's the thing that everyone needs to understand. I think 820 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,920 Speaker 1: there's a lot of like boosterism of unions amongst younger workers, 821 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,839 Speaker 1: because people just don't understand how they work or they 822 00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: haven't experienced in themselves. And I think it the main 823 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,800 Speaker 1: thing is is that you've got to be very careful 824 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 1: with your time and understanding. Like building a union can 825 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,360 Speaker 1: take like ten years from the beginning of we're upset 826 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: to now we have a collective bargaining agreement, or now 827 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,600 Speaker 1: we have a collective bargaining agreement. It could be another 828 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:20,160 Speaker 1: five or ten years before you actually get to the 829 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,400 Speaker 1: point where you're organized enough to go on strike. And 830 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 1: people oftentimes think that that's like they look back at 831 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,040 Speaker 1: the history of things and they're like, oh, it's so easy. 832 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,719 Speaker 1: But back then people were taking all they mean they 833 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,160 Speaker 1: it took them years to build the the US labor 834 00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,080 Speaker 1: movement into what it was at its peak. It took decades, right, 835 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,759 Speaker 1: And I think that we are kind of used to 836 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,040 Speaker 1: this instant gratification kind of stuff, and we have to 837 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,800 Speaker 1: understand that It's like, if you're going to be in 838 00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,959 Speaker 1: a workplace where you're there for enough time to build 839 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,439 Speaker 1: the trust and relationships and understanding of how the work 840 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 1: workplace works and keep your job and be someone that 841 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,080 Speaker 1: keep don't look at as like a shirt or whatever. 842 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:04,759 Speaker 1: Not that I don't think that people should you know, 843 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,719 Speaker 1: people should work as hard as they can and not 844 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:13,320 Speaker 1: any more harder than that. But whatever. Um. But I 845 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 1: think that you know, I'm anti work, but you know 846 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,759 Speaker 1: that's the whole other thing. Unions are the best way 847 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,480 Speaker 1: to limit the amount of work that you have to do. Um, 848 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,759 Speaker 1: if you're gonna if you're going to uh, you know, 849 00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,759 Speaker 1: work as a wage labor um. But I will just 850 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,480 Speaker 1: say that it's like I think that people don't. It's 851 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,680 Speaker 1: difficult sometimes to understand how much work goes into getting 852 00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,240 Speaker 1: to the point of getting a union, but it's always 853 00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: worth putting the time in to get there. And you 854 00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,799 Speaker 1: may not win the first try, but if you are 855 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,680 Speaker 1: if if the conditions are right and things like, you know, 856 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 1: we make our history, but not in conditions of our choosing. 857 00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:55,239 Speaker 1: Sometimes things don't work out, but not doing it is 858 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,320 Speaker 1: I think a it's detrimental to you and your co workers. 859 00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:01,680 Speaker 1: And even times like I've talked with people who have 860 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:06,080 Speaker 1: been involved in campaigns where they got fired but then 861 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,440 Speaker 1: all of a sudden conditions improved afterwards, and they look 862 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,319 Speaker 1: at that as like, oh, ship, we didn't get our union. 863 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,799 Speaker 1: But everyone got raises and they change some things at work, 864 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,000 Speaker 1: and that's actually a victory. So you know, I think 865 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,480 Speaker 1: that I think of each other as like collective building 866 00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 1: collective power, and the amount of time it takes to 867 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,080 Speaker 1: do that is daunting, but I think it's the sort 868 00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:29,640 Speaker 1: of thing that we need to do if we're serious 869 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:35,440 Speaker 1: about changing how we can actually like how our lives 870 00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,239 Speaker 1: work and how much power we have outside of work, 871 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,120 Speaker 1: because unions are also places where we do things that 872 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:48,959 Speaker 1: affect outside of our work as well. It could happen 873 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,319 Speaker 1: here as a production of pool Zone Media. The more 874 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,160 Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone 875 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,000 Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I 876 00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,360 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 877 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,080 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could happen here, updated 878 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,600 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks 879 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:06,160 Speaker 1: for listening.