1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Never told your production of I Heart Radio Today. Listeners 3 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: were so excited to once again be joined by our 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: friend Bridget Todd. Hello, Bridget, Hello, I'm so excited to 5 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: be back here with y'all. Yeah, we're so excited to 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: have you. Um for the series that you have about 7 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: women on the Internet, where I suggested it be called Winternet, 8 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: but no one replied. I think, you know, I like that. 9 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: I think it's very positive. Women are winning the Internet. 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: We're winning it every day. I like it. Ok, alright 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: that to me, I was like, someone has to explain 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: to me why you said this again, because I'm confused 13 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: because it is in winter? Is it because we're approaching winter? 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: No women on the Internet? Winternet? And you know, I 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: was eating after I sent that anxiously for positive feedback 16 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: of my genius. The hours sticked by no response. Anyway, 17 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: I thought I'd bring that up just to comfort myself. Perfect. 18 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: We are very glad to have you. And before we 19 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: started recording, we were just chatting about the election and 20 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: some of our thoughts around that, and I did want 21 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: to ask Bridget, since you're in d C. How has 22 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: that been, Well, it's been a can I swear show? 23 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: It's been a bit of a show. Um. What's wild 24 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: is that as we were just sort of talking about 25 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: it's not over, you know here in d C our 26 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: city before the election, our city was sort of hunkering down, 27 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: as I'm sure George Atlanta was, to putting you know, 28 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: boards on the windows and that kind of thing. This 29 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: weekend there's going to be a Proud Boy march in 30 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: d C. So we're all sort of preparing for that. 31 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: So it was very much like, even though the election happened, 32 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: we're still sort of dealing with the impacts. But I 33 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: do know, even though I was not in d C 34 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: on election Day, um, all my friends and you know, 35 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: neighbors and community were and it was a party on 36 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: the streets. Like I cannot tell you, I knew people 37 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: who were going to be happy when Trump was voted 38 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: out of office. I didn't know it was going to 39 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: be Sabray Champagne with strangers in the streets happy. I 40 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: didn't know it was going to be people hanging out 41 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: of like windows, screaming into blation happy. And I can 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: tell you I have never the only thing I have 43 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: seen that came even close. I happened to be in 44 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: Paris when France won the World Cup. That's the only 45 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: thing that came close to like the vibe on the 46 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: streets in d C. Yeah, I heard that it was 47 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: Champagne sells in d C. We're higher than the past 48 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: two New Years combined. Yes, I think we're just you know, 49 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: as as a city. I've lived in DC for most 50 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: of my life. I think that people from d C 51 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: like like d C long haulers. We really have a 52 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: lot of like city pride. And so I think when 53 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, I lived here during the tail end of 54 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: the Bush years, I lived here for all of the 55 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: Obama years and then the Trump years, and I think 56 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: the Trump years just were so sad and dark for 57 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: people who lived in d C. And they were like, oh, 58 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: this guy's in my town, in my community. I once 59 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: saw Ivanka Trump outside of our soul cycle in d C. 60 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: You know, it's like you would see these people, And 61 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: so I think the vibe is just so jubiliant that 62 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: we are rid of them, that we don't like column January, 63 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: they will leave and we might have to see them again. 64 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: That is very exciting thought. You know what. I immediately 65 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: felt like brain space. It was amazing, get freed up. 66 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: It's like taking off your bra really really was. I 67 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: felt like I think I just said, felt like I 68 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: just finished running. And I was at that point, I'm 69 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: just sitting exhausted, but at least one last thing was 70 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: on us and on me, and I was like yea, yeah, okay, 71 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: and now I'm gonna pass out because now I can 72 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: rest exactly, but we can't. No, no, And I do 73 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: want to say I've getten. I've gotten a act of 74 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: saying the date, which is always a risky proposition. But 75 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: today is Friday, so I do know it, Um, of March, 76 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: just because as we record this, of March, I was 77 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: so proud of the party. You were so close. There 78 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: was a Friday the thirteenth in March. Yeah, there was correct, 79 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: but it's not see I'm I'm very well. Yes it's November. 80 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: I okay, thank you for that correction. Very important. But 81 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: just because as we record this, Trump still hasn't uh conceded, 82 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: So you never know, things change really fast these days. Um. 83 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: But the last time you're here, Bridget, you were talking 84 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: a lot about misinformation and disinformation and all of that, 85 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: especially ramping up to the election and the intersectionality of 86 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: it when um we talked about gender or race, and 87 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: now that the election has happened, Uh, that's something that 88 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: you wanted to revisit. Yes, exactly. You know, I have 89 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: been studying and working on disinformation for a while and 90 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: I kind of erroneously thought like, oh, well, when the 91 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: election happens, we will be able to close the door 92 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: on this Pandora's box of false information, online harassment, moss 93 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: leading stories and the like. How wrong we were. You know, Luckily, 94 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: election officials really were predicting that from the time the 95 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: election happened, so from November three to the time that 96 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: we had an uncontested you know winner that everybody agreed on, 97 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: that would really be a hotbed of disinformation. And that 98 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: really was exactly what we saw. So I'm happy that 99 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: some people were at least prepared for it, and like 100 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: we're taking the actions and the steps necessary to like 101 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: get us all on the same page about what we 102 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: would be seeing, because that's exactly what happened. You know. 103 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: On election Day, even as the votes were still being counted, 104 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: Trump tweeted that he had won. He declared himself the winner, 105 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: So that's like just a fabrication, is based based in nothing. Um. 106 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, we really saw fall stories, disinformation and like 107 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: outright lies being spread about our our election and our 108 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: democratic process from election day itself. Yeah, and and ongoing. 109 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: Like it's one of those things that I'm almost surprised. 110 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: It can still surprise me that so many people eagerly 111 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: are buying into these things. Um just you know, the 112 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: accounts of dead people voting, like millions of dead people voting, 113 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: or sharpies all of the things. Yeah, yeah, and um 114 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: jeppy Gate and seeing like Trump's twitter line and like 115 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: twitter line, twitter feed and every tweet was being flagged 116 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: for all this passing of false information. Um. And I 117 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: know we're going to talk about like how has social 118 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: media been Have they been doing anything about this? So 119 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: I I'm sure that I'm sure the last time I 120 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: was here, I was crapping on social media platforms, and 121 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: they deserve to be crapped on, by the way, I'm not. 122 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: I am not conceding that, but I will have I 123 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: have to give them this. I do think they are trying. 124 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: They have spent a long time kind of dragging their feed, 125 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: and so part of me wonders if it's like a 126 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: little bit like too too little, too late. But I 127 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: want to give credit where credit is due. I do 128 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: think some of these platforms I just saw that, like 129 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: certain things just can't be left up. And so as Annie, 130 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: as you just said, Twitter was taking down or at 131 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: least putting disclaimers on Trump's misleading tweets about the election 132 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: on election day and the day after. His Twitter feed 133 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: looks like one of those redacted memos or things are 134 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: like blacked out because he was tweeting so many false 135 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: or misleading lies. I'm at the election, and so I 136 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: was happy to see that. You know, Facebook has announced 137 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: a couple of changes that that they're making, including um 138 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: turning off their group recommendation features so that like, you know, 139 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: if you are in a group, that might typically how 140 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: how people get radicalized only from like Facebook, You're you'll 141 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: be in one group, and then Facebook's algorithm might be like, oh, well, 142 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: you enjoy your Second Amendment rights, Maybe you want to 143 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: be part of this group that advocates for exercise I 144 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: think those Second Amendment rights at a polling station, right, Like, 145 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: you know, these these groups inch up more and more 146 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: aggressive and more and more extreme and so they turned 147 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,119 Speaker 1: off that feature and it's not clear when that feature 148 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: will be turned back on. Actually, right before coming to 149 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: chat with you, ladies, I was in a call with 150 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: Facebook senior leadership and they are not it's not clear 151 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: when they are going to be turning this feature back on, 152 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: but like, we think it should be at least until 153 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: after inauguration, just so that you know, we can close 154 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: this chapter and move on to the next chapter. UM, 155 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: I'll say, like, you know, as much as I crap 156 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 1: on the leaders of these social media platforms, it is 157 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:50,599 Speaker 1: better for them to do something than nothing. So I 158 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: definitely want to give a credit or credit is due 159 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: in terms of them taking actual steps to you know, 160 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: address this. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I I was shocked 161 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: and I saw that they were gonna until inauguration day. 162 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: I was very happy, but I was surprised. Um, and uh, 163 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: Cheryl Sandberg specifically has kind of been a part of 164 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: this conversation, right. Oh, yes, So what's interesting about Cheryl Sandberg? 165 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: And I should say full disclosure, Like I bought her 166 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: a book Lean In. There was a time in my 167 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: life where her brand of feminism I was like down 168 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: to give it a shot. You know, I wanted to 169 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: see what she had to say. I think it's been 170 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: interesting how she has really been able to largely avoid 171 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: a lot of the heat. Like when you think about 172 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: tech platforms behaving badly, I feel like Mark Zuckerberg really 173 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: takes up a lot of the air in the room, 174 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: and we kind of let Cheryl Sandberg, at least in 175 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: my view, kind of skirt by. You know, I think 176 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 1: for a while, I think there was a vibe that, 177 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: you know, Zuckerberg and these tech bros at Facebook are 178 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: just running wild and Cheryl Sandberg is doing the best 179 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: she can to like rain them in. Now, I think 180 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: that that that that reputation was completely unearned. I think 181 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: that these days she is definitely taking some heat. Kara 182 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: Swisher earlier tweeted, Cheryl Sandberg and the rest of Facebook 183 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: executive team, you're presiding over a toxic and dangerous stew 184 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: of misinformation and purposeful propaganda, and it is a clear 185 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: abdication of the job that you are charged with for 186 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: those of us who know you personally, for shame, and 187 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: that's a pretty I imagine that these two women are 188 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: probably friends in the tech space, and I think, you know, 189 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: gone are the days where you can just sort of 190 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: be like, oh, well, I work here, but like, you know, 191 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm doing the best I can. I think that people 192 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: are fed up enough that I think that even people 193 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: who have been able to avoid this kind of um 194 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: that's kind of scrutiny are getting pulled into it, right, 195 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: And yeah, I actually just saw another tweet about the 196 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: fact that you are now a part of the problem, 197 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: even if you weren't the one, or you aren't the 198 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: one propagating these things, if you work for them and 199 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: understand this is what's happening, you are complicit to their 200 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: neglect and or are feeding into this disinformation and this 201 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: use of abuse or for another brand or another conversation 202 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,479 Speaker 1: or the bigger conversation of the abuse at the Presidency 203 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: has done in the past four years and or their followers. Absolutely, 204 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: that's such a good point. You know what's so interesting 205 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: to me about this is, you know, there was a 206 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: time in my life where a job at Facebook would 207 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: have been the most exciting thing in the world for me. 208 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: But those days are gone because I would never work 209 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: in Facebook. But you know, I've often wondered, like, when 210 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: are we going to see Facebook and some of these 211 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: platforms that allow for our democracy to be attacked in 212 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: these ways. When are sort of individual rank and file 213 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: tech employees going to When are we going to make 214 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: it like an uncool place to work? Right? Like, I 215 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: feel like there's so many industries where you know, if 216 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: you choose to go into this industry, people might look 217 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: at you a little bit funny. And I think we're 218 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: seeing those conversations happen now. But what I also think 219 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: it's very interesting is that at a lot of these companies, 220 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: oftentimes it's just the rank and file staff who want 221 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,719 Speaker 1: to be part of the solution. They want they don't 222 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: want to be making tools that like wreck our democracy 223 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: and like wreck our elections. They want to be they 224 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: they got into tech because they want to make change. 225 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: And I think what we really see now is like 226 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: rank and file staffers trying to agitate from within, but 227 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: the leadership, the people who actually have the power within 228 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: the organization to do something not listening to them, which 229 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: happened so often exactly, they're just looking at numbers and 230 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: in the story and not listening to what's the actual 231 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: real world ramifications of what's happening. Um. I was actually 232 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: using Facebook as my point of giant to see where 233 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: we were on the election night, like, Okay, this state 234 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: has been called, and this state has been called, and 235 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: this state has been called. And it was really interesting 236 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: to watch the different people react on Facebook as well. 237 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: And it's really really disheartening because it's not just the 238 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: president and his little minions, it is the Republican Party 239 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: who are backing him, and that is so so dangerous 240 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: for them to sit there and be like, this is 241 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,599 Speaker 1: all false. This is all uh not legal votes or 242 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: illegal votes, which is a whole other rhetoric in itself 243 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: and so disgusting. But then it starts you started questioning, well, 244 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: you you just gotta reelected. Do we need to look 245 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: at your numbers as well? I mean with this conversation 246 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: and why are they disciphing it in such a way 247 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: that people believe parts and bits of lies but not 248 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 1: the whole actuality. That's such a good point. It's what's 249 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: so funny is if you look at the different claims 250 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: that are being made, all these claims are baseless. But 251 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: if you look at the different claims that are being 252 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: made that like, oh there was a voting irregularity here, 253 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: this voter front, there so many of them are that 254 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: they couldn't all be true, right, Some of them are contradictory, 255 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: some of them like are opposite where you're like, oh, 256 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: so they were throwing poles in the river and also 257 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: the sharpie thing and this water marketing, like if it 258 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: would it would be. It's not possible for them all 259 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: to be true. It's just like such a such a 260 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: like mixed bag of wild ass conspiracies, and no one 261 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: has stopped. Like we're just like picking and people are 262 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: just picking and choosing the wares that suit them. Like 263 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: in some states they're saying stop the count. In other 264 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: states are saying no, continue the Count's like, well, which 265 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: one is? It can't be both? Yeah, I have a 266 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: firm believer people do all kinds of mental gymnastics to 267 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: believe what they want to believe. Um, So, I guess 268 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: looking at these claims that we saw during the election, 269 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: um could you I know you've talked about it a 270 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: little bit, but how did we see them play out? 271 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: What should we continue to look for and what ultimately 272 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: is like the main purpose of these It's a great question, 273 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: you know. Definitely Trump was the one I feel leading 274 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: the charge into this idea that the election was rigged 275 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: in some way, or you know that something fishy happened 276 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: to be like ab slutely crystal clear, there has been 277 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: no documented evidence of voting irregularity of any kind in 278 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: this election. It's just not it's just not there. There 279 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: is no it's just by end of sentence period, point blank. 280 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: And so we see these continued, this continued narrative that 281 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: the election was stolen or rigged, all the things that 282 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: y'all mentioned, this whole Sharpiegate thing, this idea that poll 283 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: workers were ripping up Trump votes or like that a 284 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: Biden Harris van like something like something I'd have Scooby 285 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: Doo or something like I'm Biden Harrissan van. They weren't. 286 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: They're smart enough to try to wriggle election. They're not 287 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: smart enough to not have Biden Harriss on the side 288 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: of the van. They pull up ensure completense. You know, 289 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: these stories of like a van playing up and like 290 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: bags of ballots being like smuggled out and then the 291 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: speeds away. This is stuff from movies, y'all. This is 292 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: not reality. So all of these like baseless claims, And 293 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: I think the point is one when you have so 294 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: many different claims of voting irregularity. I think one of 295 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: the points is just to overwhelm. It overwhelms both like 296 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: fact checkers and poll workers, people whose job it is 297 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: to look into this kind of thing. And I think 298 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: it has overwhelms your average person when you hear over 299 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: and over and over and over again all of these 300 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: stories amplified about voting regularities and the election of being 301 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: arranged on all of that. Eventually, when you hear things enough, 302 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter if there's evidence or not. It 303 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: doesn't really matter if it's true or not. That's how 304 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: disinformation works. It creates this sort of false reality and 305 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: it kind of doesn't even matter if there's evidence or 306 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: if it's true. And so, unfortunately, the point of all 307 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: of this is to drive home this idea that our 308 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: elections are rigged, that that the election was stolen, that 309 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: our democracy does not work. And I have to say, unfortunately, 310 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: I think in some ways Trump has been a little 311 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: bit effective at doing this. I think despite the fact 312 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: that there have been no, uh no documented cases of 313 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: voting a regularity in this election, we've already seen like 314 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: republic Can leadership using the phrase illegal votes, right, and 315 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: so that even that phrase itself is a misnomer, and 316 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: I'm so disappointed to see that that phrase is making 317 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: its way into our our vocabulary, because you can't have 318 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: a legal votes if there's no documented widespread voter or 319 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: regularities or fraud. So it's like it's like a fiction, 320 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: and it's disappointing to see the way that this fiction 321 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: has already been sort of like made real in the 322 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: minds of some people. And I, you know, I just 323 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: think obviously, no no elected official should be getting up, 324 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: should be using their platform to lie. But I think 325 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: when you lie to people about the efficacy of our 326 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: of our democracy, that is something that is something that's 327 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: like truly beyond the pale, Like just like really sit 328 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: with that we have the leader of our country purposely 329 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: trying to make people lose faith in our democratic system. 330 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: Like there are plenty of people who have in the 331 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 1: White House, who've been elected officials and I didn't agree 332 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: with and I didn't like, but they wouldn't do that, 333 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: Like that is a very different thing, right, I mean, 334 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: he kind of Trump was the basis of having his 335 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: personal account being constant during his term. No one else 336 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: did that. No one else had the to this level, 337 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: especially with the followers. And I didn't want to ask 338 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: uh specifically to the language, how being obviously it's a 339 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: big key, But it seems like Trump and himself has 340 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: figured out that if he makes specific phrases that are 341 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: grammatically able to be catchy enough and it spreads like wildfire, 342 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 1: how dangerous? And how often has that been used? Especially 343 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: for this election? I know that random as question, but no, no, 344 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about that. It's a it's a 345 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: great question. You are exactly right, And what's so annoying 346 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: about Trump? Like? I hate, I hate to give him 347 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: like your your listeners who like don't feel the way 348 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: that I do about Trump are probably like, we get it, 349 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: you hate Trump. But the thing that it gets me 350 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: about him is that he's so effective at certain things. 351 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: And one of those things is just what you said right, 352 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: speaking in in sound bites and quotables, And I think 353 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, like even that phrase itself illegal votes, if 354 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: you didn't know any better, it sounds it sounds so reasonable, 355 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: like like Avanka Trump tweeted, I think the day ace 356 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: of the election, we should count every legal vote and 357 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: don't and not count illegal votes. This shouldn't be controversial 358 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,719 Speaker 1: and on its face you're like, oh, who would disagree 359 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: with that? But when you actually take it apart, when 360 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: when you have to like bring in a little bit 361 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: of nuance or like thoughtful in this's around it, you think, 362 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: quit a minute, there aren't there aren't illegal votes, So 363 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: like why even have that be in the conversation. It 364 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: really creates this like false equivalency. But I think you 365 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: are subot on and that Trump has this ability to 366 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: speak in sound bites or tweets that can really catch on. 367 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: Like think about these like wacky nicknames that he's given 368 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: people like sleepy Joe and you know all like little 369 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: more go Like he, I mean, I have to give 370 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: it to him. He I know what catch sprays when 371 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: I hear one, and like he really you can just 372 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: really tell Yeah, we have a lot more to get 373 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: into in this conversation, but first we have a quick 374 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: break for a work from responsor. I am back, thank you. Sponsored. 375 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: One thing I've noticed, and I do attribute this to 376 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: this spread of misinformation and disinformation and Trump being really 377 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: effective at this is my sense of reality is really 378 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: warped now, Like I feel like I can't trust things 379 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: that should I should be like, yes, that is the truth. 380 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: I don't have that anymore. Like I remember when people 381 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: were texting me about that four seasons total landscaping. It 382 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 1: was like, I don't this can't be true. And I 383 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: was like looking at it like just I don't know reality. Oh, 384 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: I mean it was hilarious. I'm glad it was true. Um, 385 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: but that's just something I feel like this whole election 386 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: we're going to have to reckon with and all of 387 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: this misinformation and disinformation. And when we were chatting before, 388 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: we were talking about being in Georgia, which right before 389 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: we came on was sort of officially projected to be 390 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: a Blues state, and we have these looming senate races, 391 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: two senate races in our state. Um, so I know 392 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: that this isn't going to go away anytime soon. But 393 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: even for people outside of Georgia, now that this presidential 394 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: election has come and gone, why is it important that 395 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: we keep having these conversations about disinformation and misinformation. I'm 396 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: so glad you asked that. Well, one thing, I do 397 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: want to go back to something that you said about, 398 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, this feeling of living in a a false reality. 399 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: I definitely identify with that. Like the total landscape. I 400 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: think was a good example. When the story first broke 401 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: that Trump had COVID, I remember thinking, like, does he 402 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: really have it? Like as he just said, like, And 403 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: it really revealed to me the depths to which I 404 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: felt like I had been sort of gaslighted by this administration, 405 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 1: where it's like I couldn't I felt like I couldn't 406 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: trust my own perception of reality. And during the day 407 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: before the election, um, my father, who is you know six, 408 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: he had a health incident and so he went to 409 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: the hospital and let me tell and so the issue 410 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: that he had was like cognited. He was having trouble 411 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: with his memory and and having trouble kind of like 412 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: understanding what was going on. He's much better now, but 413 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: that was a situation on election day, And let me 414 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: tell you, when we were trying to watch election results, 415 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: he would he would be like asleep and then wake 416 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: up and they would be showing like a little clip 417 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: of a speech where Trump appears to be, you know, 418 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: claiming himself the victor, and my dad would be like, wait, 419 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: did Trump win? And it was so difficult for me 420 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: to be like, I know that you're I know that 421 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: you've been in and out. I can't explain to you 422 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: why this is not Like, I know, you're seeing Trump 423 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: say that he won on television. All I can tell 424 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: you is it's not true. I know it seems like 425 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: it happened, but trust me that it didn't. And I 426 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, this is a wild ask thing to 427 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: have to be explaining to somebody that like, like, why 428 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: am I watching Trump on TV say that he won 429 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: the election when the election does not seem to be over. 430 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: I was like, I know, Dad, it's wild. What can 431 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: I tell you? But to your question, you know, in 432 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: terms of what we should be looking out for now, 433 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: you know this is not over and and we will 434 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: have to continue to be vigilant about disinformation and misinformation, 435 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: like more so I think than that we were before. 436 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: You know, the entire control of our Senate is going 437 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: to come down to Georgia. We've already seen disinformation on 438 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: social media, specifically as it pertains to poll workers and 439 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: vote counters. Right. We've had stories of people who had 440 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: to go into hiding because of rumors spread on social 441 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: media about the vote counts sess. And we know that 442 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: when we could get to these Georgia runoffs, that's just 443 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: gonna be worse. And I have to say, the majority 444 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: of poll workers in this country are women and black women, 445 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: and so we know that black women and women are 446 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: disproportionate recipients of attacks when it comes to disinformation on 447 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: social media, and so it's only going to get worse. 448 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: And that's why it's so important that these platforms and 449 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: these companies figure out what their commitment is to protecting 450 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: our democracy now right like it is it is, we 451 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: know what's going to happen. It is not enough to 452 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: just wait and let poll workers be attacked and let 453 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: Facebook be used to you know, organize people who want 454 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: to show up in real life with with weapons for 455 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: like extremist meetings, you know, in in in real life, 456 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: we don't. We know that these things are threats. We 457 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: know that these things are going to happen. So what 458 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: we want is for people to be the people with 459 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: power to be proactive at building a plan for what 460 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: they're going to do when these things happen, and to 461 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: stop them before they start. But you know, even though 462 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: we have a winn her uh, a new president, it 463 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: is not over. And it's just gonna be that much 464 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: more important. Also with the fact that Kamala Harris is 465 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: going to be in the White House. We know that 466 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: when Obama was elected, it's not like eartherism and racist 467 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 1: attacks on him stopped. In fact, they got worse. And 468 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: so I think with a black woman in the White House, 469 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: we're going to just continue to see these real horrible 470 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: attacks rooted in her her identity continue to flourish. Right 471 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: And in speaking of you did mention about that the 472 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: most of the bollworkers being women as well as Kamala Harris, 473 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: the things that she goes through. How is this information 474 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: and misinformation a gender justice issue? How is that pertaining 475 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: to women specifically in so many different ways? You know, 476 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: even just look at COVID, the majority of essential workers 477 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: are women. The majority of people in the healthcare field 478 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: are women. However, when we have like one of the 479 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: big topics where disinformation misinformation formish is is COVID and 480 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: and how you stay safe with COVID, And so if 481 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: you have platforms that are allowing for misinformation and false 482 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: stories pertaining to COVID just flourish, You're hurting the women 483 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: who are essential workers, who have who are who are 484 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: the majority of the people who are at the front 485 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: lines of the of the pandemic right now health care workers, 486 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: the majority of which are women being impacted. And so really, 487 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: when you start pulling these things apart and seeing who 488 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: is being hurt, which communities are are having to shoulder 489 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: a disproportionate level of harm, it's always women and it's 490 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: always us. And so you know, thinking about these things 491 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: from a perspective of like, oh, well, it just harms 492 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 1: everybody equally, that would be that would be great if 493 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: it was true. But we know that's not true. We 494 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: know it it's women who end up shouldering a disproportionate 495 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 1: amount of the impact. That's a great point, um. I 496 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: was researching some numbers around, like the predictions of COVID 497 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: cases in this winter that's been called a dark winter, 498 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: and I was so like, I was getting anxious looking 499 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: at these things. And it's just so frustrating that you 500 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: have a safety measure that shouldn't have been politicized, but 501 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: it was, and now people are getting sick and dying 502 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: because of it. And it is a part of that 503 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: of getting these messages from the very top that you know, 504 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: don't wear a mask. I don't see the point. It's fine, um, 505 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: And seeing these stories and I mean to me, they 506 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: sound ridiculous of claims like well that you breathe the 507 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: COVID back in and it's worse if you wear a 508 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: mask and things like that, but it's working, like people 509 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: are buying into it. Um. Yeah, So you can really 510 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: see like the effectiveness of this and right now specifically 511 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: the deadly deadliness of it. Absolutely. I really I'm so 512 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: glad that you brought that up. I really think if 513 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 1: we ever are able to get COVID under control, I 514 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: think we need to have a real serious conversation as 515 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: a nation about the way that we allowed sexism and 516 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,479 Speaker 1: stop attitudes around gender to hurt people. And a lot 517 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: of those people were women, right, Like, even on top 518 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: of what the point that you just made about how 519 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: masks were really feminized, it's women. When you look at 520 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: who the majority of the people who have like lost 521 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: wages and lost jobs and checked out of the workforce altogether, 522 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: it's women. Right. I've seen story after a story about 523 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: how women have just had to like absorb the blowback 524 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: of this pandemic, and so on top of that, like 525 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: like we're the ones who are being disproportionately harmed and displaced, 526 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: and you know, marginalized by the pandemic, and on top 527 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: of that, like people are still equating just like the 528 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 1: basic common sense protocols of how we can like stay 529 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: safe with like women there therefore bad, you know, talking 530 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: about how like wearing a mask makes you like some 531 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: kind of like I don't know, feminized soy boy or something. 532 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: It really is so harmful. And if there's ever been 533 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: something that showed us how dangerous and corrosive and toxic 534 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: like these ideas of gender can be, it should be 535 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: the pandemic, right, I mean we saw it in just 536 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: environmental issues that was so gendered and they're like, wait, 537 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: we're trying to save the world, and you want to 538 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: say you can't do that because it makes you look feminine. 539 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: What in the hell is wrong with you? But it 540 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: seems like when it comes to carrying an empathy, it's 541 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: automatically assumed that that is going to be feminine and 542 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: that it shows weakness. To show that you care shows weakness, 543 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: so therefore don't do it. And it's such an absurdity 544 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: because we talked about this the last time, how Donald 545 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: Trump's campaign all rode into that that masculine is the 546 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: only way to be and if we really want this 547 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: country to be great again is to go back to 548 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: the norm of heteronormative ideas of the nineteen twenties. Essentially, 549 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: it is such an absurdity in itself that we would 550 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: rather look strong and I say that in a very 551 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: like loose manner than to care for others. Yeah, you know, 552 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: it's such a so absurd and you know, and in 553 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: seeing that also the same thing with the misinformation and 554 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: disinformation in the politics. I've seen the misinformation that's happening 555 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: already in our Senate race where they're taking things out 556 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: of context and sending it out where they're allowing for 557 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: uh Trump tactics. I don't know if there's gonna be 558 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: a like an actual term for that soon. Um, where 559 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: our our Republican senators and comfants are using that and 560 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: fell fully into that. The point that we have a 561 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: Q and on person going into the House that's representing 562 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: us because they are allowing for this as the norm, 563 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: and the fact of the matter is it's still working 564 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: enough that we have a runoff instead of a win 565 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: like that. Yes, a thousand times, yes, I could not 566 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: be like snapping my fingers and nodding my head in agreement, 567 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: and I just really think about that, the fact that 568 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: caring about others empathy, that's being framed as something that's bad, 569 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: something that you don't want from your your leaders, right 570 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: that is that doesn't like any sense, it's good to 571 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: care about others. Caring about others is not a bad thing. 572 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: I think. When Biden did his town hall, and just 573 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: to be clear, like I'm happy that he's going to 574 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: be our next president, but like he's not the end 575 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: all be all of like progressivism or by any means. 576 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: But when he did his town hall, I don't remember 577 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: who it was, but some Republican was like, oh, it 578 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: was almost like watching Mr. An episode of Mr. Rogers, 579 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's just like like we get it, you care. 580 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: And I was like, why is it a bad thing? 581 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: Like like where are we what? Like what world are 582 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: we living in? Where you know, all caps tweets are good, 583 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: like all all caps tweets about how like you have 584 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: been cheated that's good, and like empathy that's bad, like 585 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: like up as down, black as white. Yeah, Mr. We 586 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: do have some more for you listeners, but first we're 587 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: gonna pause for a quick break for a word from 588 00:31:53,000 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: our sponsor. And we're back, thank you. I think the 589 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: difference between the left and the right right now, the 590 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: extreme right, I will say, and the extreme left we 591 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: don't see these people's I say we the left does 592 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: not see people as gods. This is not our choice. 593 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: This is not someone that like God blessed them into 594 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,479 Speaker 1: the situation, or whoever you worship, made this person for us. 595 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: It's gonna fix everything. No, we're just trying to find 596 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: out what normal is. And we just really want to 597 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: get back to the point that we don't have to 598 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: fight with people every day about again the lies about 599 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: the masks, and the lies about whether or not we 600 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: should shut down CDC or whether we should care, or 601 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: whether we should fight with a ten year old girl 602 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: who cares about her environment, Like, we just want to 603 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: get to the point where that's not a thing. But 604 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: we see that the right, like I have seen so 605 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: many freaking memes about Jesus touching Donald Trump, Like I 606 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: have never in my life been like, what is with this, 607 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: with this kind of level of worship for a man 608 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: who does, honestly in the end, other than wanting to 609 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: win absolutely. I mean, that's what I always tell people 610 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: as someone who has been in politics and activism and 611 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: organizing on the left for a very long time. No 612 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: elected official is like your best friend, right. You are 613 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: electing someone that you think you can move, that you 614 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: think you can push, that you are that you are 615 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: down to be holding accountable for four years. And I'm 616 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: no huge fan of Biden Harris. I'm I voted for them. 617 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: I'm happy they're in the White House, but I'm more 618 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,239 Speaker 1: happy to spend the next four years pushing them and 619 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: holding them accountable and you know, making hard asks, right, Like, 620 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: I think that when you are picking an elected official, 621 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: you want to pick somebody that you can't see yourself 622 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: holding accountable and not picking like this is an American idol. 623 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: You're not picking your like you know, your best friend 624 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: for life, or like someone who you think is going 625 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: to be, you know, the best. Ever, it just doesn't 626 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: work that way. Like every I feel every politician eventually 627 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: will break your heart. And so we really just got 628 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: to be thinking strategic about who you pick and who 629 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: you vote for. But it's certainly you know, yeah, like 630 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: this idea that Trump has been blessed by God or something. 631 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: I mean, like, I guess I have a lot of 632 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: questions about people who feel who can feel that way. 633 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: I guess again, so do I because I'm very very confused. 634 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 1: You know, there's another thought, and this maybe a whole 635 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: episode in itself. We're gonna think we probably will. But 636 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: the idea, like when I'm talking about religion, when we're 637 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: talking about God in general, that that does play on 638 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: this very heteronormative idea of what is chosen and what 639 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: is good and what isn't what is not good, because 640 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, we can talk about the fact that a 641 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: majority of people who are voting in the right are 642 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: doing it based on abortion and ty abortion and their 643 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: quote unquote pro life stance, and that term should be 644 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: done away with anyway, um, and it does. It seems 645 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: like it hones in on women in itself, like especially 646 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 1: those who have grown up in religious basis. And I 647 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: wonder also because that's what I see and play a 648 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: lot of the time to get at people, uh for 649 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: that stance, Like the commercials and stuff. One of the 650 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: big conversations, one of the big points they say is 651 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: we are here to support police, We are here to 652 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: keep the way of life, the American way of life. 653 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 1: And it's such a weird rhetoric, but it seems to 654 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: work for those who are steeped in tradition um as. 655 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: In fact that Judge Alito just has kind of stepped 656 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: into some controversy because he just finally said what he 657 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: felt and that he wanted to bring traditional American households 658 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: back to what it was and this is like, this 659 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: is love and this is morality. And it's kind of 660 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: interesting that we can look at some of that misinformation 661 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: and making sure they use that as a prompt to 662 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: get those voters and to keep those voters in It 663 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: majority worked with older white women. Yes, it really is. 664 00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: It's so effective. You know, I've seen um disinformation around abortion, 665 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,959 Speaker 1: Like I've seen memes on Facebook, especially where they're trying 666 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: to they they'll say like, oh, you're a woman can 667 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: terminate a pregnancy at you know, up until the moment 668 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: that she gives birth. And it's like, no, if someone 669 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: if someone is termed, if someone is doing an abortion 670 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: that late in the game, it's something else is going on, right, 671 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: Like like we I've seen so many, so many instances 672 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: where it's just outright lies about abortion because dis informers 673 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: know that these topics that require a little bit of 674 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: nuance or that are emotionally charged, like those are the 675 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: ones that really work. And you know, I think I 676 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: think that you're right about it being something that really 677 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: does move voters. And I have to say, a growing 678 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: demographic of Latin of the Latin X community voted for 679 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: Trump and abortion was an issue that they self reported 680 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: as something that that moved them. That they are not there, 681 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: that they're not okay with the fact that the Biden 682 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: Harris administration is pro choice, and so I do think 683 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 1: there is so much more work to be done around 684 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: how we message voters on these topics that require a 685 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: little bit of sensitivity and a little bit of nuance 686 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: to discuss. I think that we have so much work 687 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: to be done, and I think on the left, I'm 688 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: excited to see us starting to have some conversations around like, well, 689 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 1: how can we how can we provide off ramps for 690 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: people who have been misled by very savvy disinformers. To 691 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: be clear, I don't know what that looks like, that is, like, 692 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 1: I'm happy to have those conversations, but I do think, 693 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: you know, we have a country where a good chunk 694 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: of people have been really cruelly misled by very effective 695 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: disinformers around things like Q and on around things like 696 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: reproductive care. And I do want to build off ramps 697 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: for those people to be like, listen, things got wild 698 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: there and you got you got, you got taken by 699 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: somebody who did not have your best interests at heart. 700 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: Here's how we get you back to where you need 701 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: to be. You know, I want to be part of 702 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: those conversations, right, I mean that is a big question 703 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: because I definitely have you know, we've talked about it 704 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: before with my family and itself and trying to have 705 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: his conversation and just literally fights and crying, like that's 706 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: what ends up happening. But how do you approach this 707 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: in a way that you can have a constructive conversation 708 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: without being angry with one another because you know, of 709 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: course they have their ideas, and I've heard my parents ideas, 710 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: and I grew up under their parents, my parents ideas, 711 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: but I came from that to this to see the 712 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: practical like, uh, this is where the lies were and 713 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: this is why this is incorrect. And I've been with 714 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: friends who have had to have as what they would 715 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: call late term abortion, and not by the way I've 716 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 1: heard it. I've heard them recently say after birth abortions, 717 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: and I'm still trying to figure that out. So I'm like, 718 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: are you talking about Kelly babies? It's happening. So I 719 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: think that in itself has been a new platform too. 720 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: I was like, y'all are going real real into this, 721 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: but talking to them about their tragedy and having to 722 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: be there and the fact that this is like going 723 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: through these painful things and then being accused of doing 724 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,959 Speaker 1: something so horrible as in like you killed your child, 725 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: you do this on purpose? And I just to watch 726 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: that conversation and trying to sit down, and I'm like, 727 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: you understand what you're doing, right, You are vilifying the 728 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: very people who are with you and want these children 729 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 1: and love these you know, love these unborn babies as 730 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: you want to you know, whatever you want to call 731 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: and term them. Is the fact that they intended to 732 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 1: have this child but they couldn't, and that is tragedy 733 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: in itself. But how do you have these conversations of 734 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: like we need to break down and being able to 735 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: communicate with each other, and also I need to be 736 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,439 Speaker 1: able to tell you, hey, that video you just posted, yeah, 737 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,359 Speaker 1: it's bullshit and it is ridiculous. How do we how 738 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: do you have these conversations? So I have a lot 739 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: to say about this one. I think on the abortion 740 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,919 Speaker 1: part of this specifically, I think it really comes down 741 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: to abortion storytelling. There have been so many amazing groups 742 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: like we Testify UM shout out to abortion, who have 743 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: been doing such amazing work in this space, really helping 744 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: people tell their stories about their abortion experience in a 745 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: way that can counter some of this misinformation and disinformation. Right. 746 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: I also think, you know, for heterosexual folks out there, 747 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: or folks who have like male identified folks out there, 748 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: I don't like the fact that oftentimes talking about abortion 749 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 1: and talking about reproductive care is just seen as like 750 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: a woman's job or a woman's role, when we know 751 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,280 Speaker 1: that so many men out there have benefited from an abortion. 752 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: And I don't like the fact that it's just like 753 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,720 Speaker 1: on us as women to to be bearing our souls 754 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: on something that is very sensitive and like difficult to 755 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: talk about. Sometimes it's just up to us. And so 756 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: I think more men should be stepping up to the 757 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: plate and be like, yeah, abortion impacted my life in 758 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: these ways, and here's what it looks like for us, 759 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: or here's what it looks like for me, right, it 760 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: shouldn't just be on us to to shoulder this burden. 761 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,240 Speaker 1: And terms of how we talk to our families about 762 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 1: some of the disinformation that they can get wrapped up in. 763 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: Pan America Foundation has a wonderful guide if you just 764 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 1: google Pan America and and misinformation on how you talk 765 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: to your family you know about disinformation, and some of 766 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: the things they recommend are do it in private, Like 767 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 1: you don't want to be doing it on a public 768 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: Facebook post one, because you might be just like pushing 769 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: that wild post into more people's feeds. And then also 770 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,720 Speaker 1: it's like, it's just it's weird when you get called 771 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: out in public people. It just people can be already 772 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 1: on the defensive. So if you do it in private, 773 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: if you send them a private message or call them 774 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:36,720 Speaker 1: on the phone, it might be a little bit better 775 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: so that it's not they're not coming from a place 776 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: of like, well, all my followers are watching this interaction 777 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: and I have to react in a certain way. So 778 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: doing it in private. And also just something else that 779 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: you said, Sam, like keeping empathy at the front of 780 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,240 Speaker 1: your mind, right, So like remember trying to put yourself 781 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,919 Speaker 1: in this person's shoes. I have found that nine times 782 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: out of ten, people who are getting caught up in 783 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: lies and distortions on social media especially, they are scared, 784 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: they are fearful. They are looking for answers, They're looking 785 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: for explanations. They're looking for anything that makes how they 786 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: feel or what they think or their worldview. They're looking 787 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: for anything to make that feel okay. And these disinformers 788 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: know that, and they are sure, you know, right as rain, 789 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 1: they will be there to fill that gap. And so, 790 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 1: knowing kind of a little bit about the emotional situation 791 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: that somebody who is getting taken by disinformation, knowing a 792 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: little bit about where they might be, and being a 793 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: little bit willing to like have a conversation, that that 794 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: acknowledges that. UM. One of the reasons why I got 795 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: involved in disinformation in the first place is that I 796 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: there's not really another way to say it. I feel 797 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: like I lost a good friend to conspiracy theories and disinformation, 798 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: and I feel like I waited too late to do 799 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: the things that I'm suggesting that people do now. Like 800 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time getting into like heated 801 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: back and forth on Facebook where we would be arguing 802 00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: in the comments and then people would be like texting 803 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,359 Speaker 1: me about it and it would be like a big 804 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: tense thing. I later realized that I was just pushing 805 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,479 Speaker 1: him further and further into this kind of thinking, and 806 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: you know, we are we are not friends now, And 807 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: I look back and I think, gee, you know, what 808 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 1: would it have been like if I had took the 809 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: time to talk to my friend have a real conversation 810 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: about where he was at and why he was being 811 00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: drawn to some of these wilder conspiracy theories on the 812 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: net right, Like, you know, I would have probably found 813 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: out that he had just moved to a new city 814 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,399 Speaker 1: and was really lonely. I would have probably found out 815 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: that you know, conspiracy theory groups online all for a 816 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,760 Speaker 1: kind of like seven online community that he was probably crazing. 817 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 1: I would have found out all of this stuff. But 818 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: I never took the time. I did everything wrong, And 819 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: I just I want people to know that if someone 820 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: that you love, if someone who you have been in 821 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,759 Speaker 1: community with, you see them, you see yourself losing them, 822 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: you have options that you can take. You don't have 823 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 1: to do what I did. We just to do everything 824 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: wrong and then like you know a bit about it 825 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,840 Speaker 1: on Facebook and then like be salty in the comments 826 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 1: you can, you have what you have resources that can 827 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 1: help you figure out how to have this conversation. But 828 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,240 Speaker 1: I do think we need to be having these conversations, 829 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: you know. I think that people that get wrapped up 830 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: in this, they need to know there are off ramps. 831 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:17,880 Speaker 1: They need to know that, like they will not be 832 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 1: shunned if they if they come out of it. I 833 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: think that's very important. M Ah, that's great advice. UM, 834 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 1: and you've mentioned some some groups already, but if you 835 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,280 Speaker 1: could go over um some ways that they're these groups 836 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: are fighting disinformation and misinformation and for folks who are 837 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: interested how they can get involved. Yeah, well, Pan America 838 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: is a great resource. They have a great guide as 839 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 1: they mentioned before. UM, I would be remiss if I 840 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: do not mention my own organization, Ultra Violet. We are 841 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: a gender justice organization that tries to build political and 842 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: social power for women and non binary folks, and we 843 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: actually put out an ad calling out Cheryl Sandberg about 844 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 1: this information on Facebook. So definitely check that out and 845 00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 1: if you want to get involved, you can go to 846 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 1: act that we are ultra violet dot org and check 847 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,360 Speaker 1: out our campaign calling Facebook to be more accountable for 848 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 1: their platforms. I love it. Yeah, I love it. Um, 849 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: is there anything else you want to say before we 850 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 1: wrap up? Um? And then obviously you can shut out 851 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: where listeners can find you. I would just say I 852 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: know things you know earlier today and you called our 853 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 1: upcoming winter our dark winter, and boy do I feel that. Um, 854 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,919 Speaker 1: But I would just say, you know, stuff is hard 855 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,000 Speaker 1: right now, stuff is dark right now. But we have 856 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 1: each other. We got this, Like I don't I don't know. 857 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,319 Speaker 1: I guess I feel like so much of my day 858 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,240 Speaker 1: is full of doom and gloom and preparing for the worst. 859 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,440 Speaker 1: But you know, I think we have each other. We 860 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: have spaces like stuff. I've never told you to build 861 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,800 Speaker 1: community and have conversations, and so when times are scarier, 862 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: hard or cold and dark, just come back to that. 863 00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,759 Speaker 1: Just's remember that we have community, we have each other. 864 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: We have We're not powerless, We're powerful in each other. 865 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm gonna take that a little bit and 866 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: I'll put it on my phone up. Yeah. I love that, 867 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,360 Speaker 1: because right before we were talking, I said, how I 868 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,839 Speaker 1: found this article that said how are you as become 869 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,320 Speaker 1: a triggering question? So I like I like this positive 870 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 1: note and I definitely have have been feeling it um, 871 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 1: which was nice. It's it's almost like something was coming 872 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: back to life at me that I hadn't realized had 873 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,960 Speaker 1: just sort of died off for a little bit. Um. 874 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, that's great. Um. And thank you as 875 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 1: always for coming by Bridget and having these conversations with us. 876 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,000 Speaker 1: We love it. They're so valuable. Where can the listeners 877 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,840 Speaker 1: find you? You can find me on Twitter at Bridget Marie. 878 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: Can find me on Instagram at Bridget Marie and DC. 879 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 1: And if you want to have more conversations about how 880 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: women are showing up on the Internet, check out my 881 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: podcast on Heart Radio this very network called there Are 882 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,359 Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet. Yes, definitely do that. I'm 883 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: still I'm so prepared Bridget for the fan fiction episode. 884 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: There you gotta do it. I honestly, we got we 885 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,919 Speaker 1: have to do it. It's happening, it's happening. You gotta 886 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:23,840 Speaker 1: do this one. She's ready many terms. Yestly, you should 887 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 1: probably just like mute and just like, I don't know, 888 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: do something else and kind of pretend you're listening to 889 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,000 Speaker 1: me and let me get it out of my system. 890 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be offended at all. I love it. I 891 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:42,319 Speaker 1: love it well. I look forward to that and we 892 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,400 Speaker 1: look forward to having you back UM for the next 893 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: next entry in what I'm sticking with the winternet, but 894 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 1: if listeners have another another better name, I will. I'm open. 895 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 1: I'm open, I like I like winternet. I think it's 896 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,319 Speaker 1: got a nice ring to it. Yeah, thank you, thank you. 897 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 1: I I constant validation on my title name validation and 898 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:13,280 Speaker 1: good information. But also also that also that UM the listeners. 899 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:14,960 Speaker 1: If you want to reach out, you can email us 900 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,080 Speaker 1: at stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. 901 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast 902 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,960 Speaker 1: or on Instagram and Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks. 903 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,959 Speaker 1: It's always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thank you 904 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told 905 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,719 Speaker 1: you the protection of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from 906 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 1: I Heeart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio Act Apple 907 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,720 Speaker 1: podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows