1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: You're listening to Ruthie's table for in collaboration with me 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: and em intelligent style for busy women. On the very 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: first page of Vice President Carmela Harris's dramatic and compelling 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: book A hundred and Seven Days, she mentions food four times. 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: I often say that I look at life and art 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: through the lens of food, and I think this is 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: one of the many things she and I share. 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: We met at a wedding last summer. Drinking our pre 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 2: dinner cocktails. She turned to me and said, Ruthie, you 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: know what I'd really like to do. I'd like to 11 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 2: meet the chefs. Walking in with her to the kitchen 12 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: with something I will always remember, every one put down 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: their knives, their pots, their pants, Amazed at seeing her there. 14 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 2: She spoke seriously about cooking, praising them for delicious food, 15 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 2: asking them genuine and respectful questions. I'm often asked, who 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: would be my dream guest on Ruthie's table. Well, she's 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 2: sitting right next to me here in the River Cafe. 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, thank you. 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: We would you like to tell everybody what you had 20 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: for breakfast when you came to the River Cafe this morning? 21 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 3: I have the most exquisite breakfast, a beautiful slice of 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 3: home baked bread that was toasted just to perfection with Brada, 23 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 3: just a nice slice that was melting and just kind 24 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 3: of just being. And then the most exquisite slices of 25 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 3: cured anchovy with slices on the side of heirloom tomato. 26 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 3: I was in heaven. I was in heaven. 27 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: You're here in London and you're here for my book tour. 28 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: First of all, thank you for writing this book. Think 29 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: that the the way that you did this, with the diary, 30 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: with the ups and the downs and the inns and 31 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 2: the outs and the excitement and the it takes you 32 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: really urge everyone to read this because it's it's a 33 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: it's knowledge, it's you know, and as you say, for 34 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: young people who want to, you know, go into this 35 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: world and understand more. I think it's, uh, it's a 36 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: textbook as well. 37 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 3: I wrote the book in a way that I was 38 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 3: very honest and forthright and handed. Yeah, and I am 39 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 3: not in the interest of shocking anyone, but just being factual. 40 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 3: I think there's so much about all these processes, but 41 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 3: in particular running for president, where it's it's very opaque 42 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 3: and unless you're in the inside as a part of it, 43 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 3: you can't really see or understand all the nuance and 44 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: variables that are at play. So I decided to write 45 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 3: the book to really give people a behind the scenes look. 46 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 3: In fact, like the tour of your kitchen Just now, 47 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 3: I say. 48 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: People always want to know, how does you know the 49 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 2: sea bass come out at the same time as the lamb? 50 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:15,839 Speaker 2: How does how does it all work? And you see 51 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 2: the process, but we don't. I don't know how a 52 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 2: campaign works. I don't know how you produce a television show. 53 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: I don't know how the taxi driver knows how to 54 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: get from it. You know, it's a process we all 55 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: want to know. 56 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: And that's what I and the choreography, which is and 57 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 3: and the other reason I wrote the book is it 58 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 3: is those one hundred and seven days are a part 59 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 3: of American's history, and it was very important to me 60 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: that my voice is present in the way that history 61 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 3: tells the story of those days. Think about it. It 62 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 3: was unprecedented, Ruthie. We had sitting president of the United 63 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 3: States running for reelection. He decides to drop out three 64 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 3: and a half months before the election. The sitting vice 65 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 3: president takes up the mantle against a former president who 66 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 3: had been running for ten years, with one hundred and 67 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 3: seven days to go, And so I wrote the books 68 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 3: stylistically like a journal. Most of the one hundred and 69 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 3: seven days our chapters, each of them a chapter based 70 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 3: on the extraordinary experience that I had meeting people around 71 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 3: the country who expect and want to be seen and heard, 72 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 3: whose stories must be known and told. And then all 73 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 3: of the palace intrigue that is a part of politics 74 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 3: and all of that. Part of what I've been doing 75 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 3: in the tour is people write me from all over 76 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 3: the world, and I've been pulling out letters from the 77 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 3: various cities where we're in the book tour of people 78 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 3: who live in that place and inviting them to on 79 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 3: my friends and family list. And it's been really great 80 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: because these are people with no expectation of I mean, 81 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 3: half the time, I'm sure you're never going to read this, 82 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 3: but I do. And one of those individuals, a young man, 83 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 3: what he said to me about the book, which was 84 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 3: very helpful to me. He said, you know, he followed 85 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 3: the election very closely those one hundred and seven days, 86 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,799 Speaker 3: and he said he needed closure, and the book going 87 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 3: through it. The intensity of each day helped him process 88 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,239 Speaker 3: it in a way that gives him and I hope 89 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 3: that this is part of my attention, gives anyone who 90 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 3: reads it an ability to be reminded of the light 91 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: that everyone has and that no election can take away 92 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 3: that sense of optimism and dare I say joy that 93 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: we each have and we can't forget it even though 94 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: we are seeing so much that is I mean, you know, 95 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 3: the words can go on and on about how awful 96 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 3: it is, but in the midst of this darkness, of 97 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 3: this moment, I hope that reading the book also reminds 98 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 3: people of the light that they carry that cannot be 99 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 3: dampened or diminished by any one person or election. 100 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: I was going to ask you how being on a 101 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 2: book tour does is feels different to you from being 102 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: on a campaign when you stop off in a city 103 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: as you did in this book, and describe what it 104 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: was like to arrive in a town and do a 105 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: you know, a an event of speech, a raw you know, rallies, 106 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: and the difference between going to the festival hall or 107 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: to Birmingham, Alabama and talking about now, when you're not campaigning, 108 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: what is that like? 109 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 3: Well, part of what I'm enjoying about this moment is 110 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 3: I'm not because I'm also pulling. I'm out doing meetings 111 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 3: with groups of people in the cities where I'm doing 112 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 3: the book tour, and what I'm enjoying about it is 113 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: I am there not to talk, but to listen. That's 114 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: why I'm convening these groups, a lot of them are 115 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: under the age of forty. Because I also think that 116 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 3: if we're thinking about how we are going to understand 117 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: and articulate the stakes of this moment, we have to 118 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: be intentional about seeing it through the eyes of people 119 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 3: who are going to be living with this for decades 120 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: to come. And so what I'm enjoying about it is that, 121 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: unlike the campaign, I also have the luxury of being 122 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 3: able to sit down with people. I think they know 123 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 3: that if they're invited to come, it's going to be 124 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 3: a real conversation and a safe place, and people are 125 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 3: talking about their fears and their hopes and their frustrations, 126 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 3: their anger, their joy and that I mean, Ruthie. That's 127 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 3: been so helpful to me because I just feel right 128 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 3: now we're all carrying an incredible amount of distrust and 129 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 3: we have to work on the relationships of trust and 130 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 3: also understand that the nature of the relationship of trust 131 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 3: is that it's reciprocal. You give and you receive trust. 132 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 3: And I think that's some of the deep and important 133 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: work that we all have to do. 134 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 2: We were talking about Denmark, Yeah, we were talking about 135 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: the happiness factor, and in the study, it was actually 136 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 2: a conversation about a woman who left her a Danish 137 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: woman who came to New York and left her baby 138 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 2: outside the cafe and she could see the pram and 139 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 2: she was arrested because you want to protect a baby 140 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: being left outside. But from her town in Denmark, she 141 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: described that that's kind of what you do. You trust 142 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 2: somebody not to take your baby, but you also trust 143 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: education to provide good school lunches. You trusted coming to 144 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: your country to be how's you have a health care system? 145 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: And do you think that trust has in our country 146 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: in the United States? Do finding that people not only 147 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: not trust their neighbor not to have a gun or 148 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: to be there for them if they have an accident, 149 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: but to trust government to take care of them. 150 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, but yes, but I think that it's not a 151 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: new phenomena for populations of people and I'll speak for 152 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 3: the American people to have a healthy level of skepticism 153 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 3: about whether the government is working in a way that 154 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 3: works for them. The people to be frustrated with the 155 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 3: bureaucracy of government, with the politics. That's not new, but 156 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 3: I do think that in particular, since the pandemic, we've 157 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: seen it increase at a pretty significant level. I actually 158 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 3: think that part of the challenge we have is we 159 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 3: are not talking enough about the trauma that so many 160 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 3: people experienced because of the pandemic. People lost family members 161 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 3: to COVID, They lost their livelihood, they lost some people 162 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 3: lost their home, small business owners lost their businesses. Our 163 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 3: children lost significant phases of not only their education but socialization. 164 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 3: And it was as though the rug got pulled out 165 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 3: from under people. And whereas you thought that there were 166 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 3: some basic things about the system, however you define it, 167 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 3: that would always exist, the pandemic upended it all and 168 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 3: I think left people with a greater level of skepticism, 169 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 3: and skepticism I think is a symptom of distrust. And 170 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 3: so some people then say, well, how is it that 171 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 3: more people aren't taking to the streets about what we're 172 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 3: saying happen in the last nine months. I mean, I 173 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 3: think that there are many people who are feeling like, yeah, 174 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: we know that the system does dollars work for us, 175 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: So why is anybody surprised now? And so if we're 176 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 3: going to deal with the reality of where we are 177 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 3: beyond that one election, I think this is this is 178 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 3: part of the work we have to do, which is 179 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 3: to encourage these difficult conversations about issues like trust and 180 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 3: to address issues like trauma, to address, of course issues 181 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 3: that are about whether government is actually working for the people, 182 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: and do we need to re examine, especially in the 183 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,599 Speaker 3: aftermath that there will be of this current administration. And 184 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 3: while then we are looking at a big pile of debris, 185 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 3: maybe it's not about rebuilding. Maybe it's transformative, and it's 186 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: not because I actually I write about this in the book, 187 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 3: I think that when that day comes, we cannot afford 188 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 3: and let us make sure we do not think about 189 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 3: what to do in a way that is burdened by 190 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 3: some nostalgia to recreate a system that was flawed, and instead, 191 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 3: let's have some honest conversations about what was not working 192 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 3: and then see the opportunity we might have to actually 193 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 3: and sadly start from scratch with some stuff. 194 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 2: You grew up in a family of trust, you know, 195 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: reading about your family and father, your grandmother's incredible people. 196 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 3: I mean, you know which, I feel very blessed in 197 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 3: terms of how I grew up and in particular my childhood, 198 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 3: because every signal, every message that was sent and that 199 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 3: I received, was you are important, you are loved. You know. 200 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 3: I grew up in an environment where people told us 201 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 3: we were special. We weren't particularly special, what we believed them. 202 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 2: Special, doll. 203 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 3: Like we we can and should do more of that 204 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 3: as a society in terms of the signals we send 205 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 3: to the children. Right. I grew up and this is 206 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 3: what I talked about at the convention, where I had 207 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 3: a family by blood and I had a family by love, 208 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 3: where my mother created a family that included people who 209 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 3: were not blood relatives but they were our family. I mean, 210 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 3: walking through your kitchen, I was reminding my uncle Freddie, 211 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 3: who was not my uncle by blood, but he was 212 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 3: my uncle in every way. He had a basement apartment 213 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 3: in Harlem. He used to work with the Studio Museum 214 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 3: in Harlem, and we'd go visit Uncle Freddy in his 215 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 3: basement apartment in Harlem, and Uncle Freddie loved to cook. 216 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 3: But his kitchen was maybe the size of this table. 217 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 3: And and so Uncle Freddy would wash everything as soon 218 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 3: as he used it. If he used his books, it 219 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 3: could washed it literally because there was. 220 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 2: It's great, but you're about to go and tell the chefs. 221 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 3: But you know I love to cook, send family dinner. 222 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 3: It's like non negotiables. And the kids have now coined 223 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 3: the term after dinner. Let's Uncle Freddy's kitchen, right. But 224 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 3: people like my uncle Freddy, people like my uncle Sherman 225 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 3: who taught us. 226 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 2: Was Uncle Sherman an uncle or. 227 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 3: He was not an uncle by blood, but he has 228 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 3: an uncle. And Uncle Sherman sat us down, my sister 229 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 3: Maya and me when we were like, I don't know, 230 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 3: six seven, and he said, you guys are going to 231 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 3: learn how to play chess because the chess board is 232 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 3: like life, and they're going to be many different pieces 233 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 3: on the board that moved differently and they're all on 234 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 3: the same board. And part of learning how to play 235 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 3: chess is you will learn that you have to think 236 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 3: about any step you take, the ramifications of it. 237 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: Three steps out. 238 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 3: This is the family that. 239 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: You know. 240 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 3: Both of them passed away. It's I actually write about 241 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 3: that in the book too. It's so many of them 242 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 3: died far too young, far too young. 243 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, you also have kind of multi cultural cooking family. 244 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 3: So you have a mother, my mother from Indian India 245 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 3: and southern and South Indiana. 246 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: There's a difference between your absolutely right India northern huf 247 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 2: food and culture in India. Yeah, you had Jamaica and 248 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: you had your well later on, your. 249 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 3: Husband, my husband who is Jewish, and also my second 250 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 3: mother who was from Louisiana. Yea, and part of that 251 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 3: whole migration of black folks from the South who went west. 252 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: And and that's a regional I always say in our country, 253 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,239 Speaker 2: the regional food is from the South. I mean, if 254 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: you're in Vermont, you might have maple syrup, which you 255 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 2: might not find in Idaho. But basically it is kind 256 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 2: of the same. But Southern cooking has such a regionality too. 257 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 3: But see here's here's one of the things I learned 258 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 3: early on about the universality of it all through food. 259 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 3: Miss Shelton, who was our second mother, the neighbor. The 260 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 3: neighbor and my mother both loved to cook okra okra. 261 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: My mother would cook it with mustard seeds and turmeric. 262 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 3: Southern Indian Miss Shelton would cook it with dried shrimp 263 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 3: and hot sausages and bell peppers and tomatoes. And I 264 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 3: have all those recipes. 265 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 2: And did you prefer one to the other? 266 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 3: I love them both. 267 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 2: You love them both? Did you make your own? How 268 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 2: do you make up? You know what? 269 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 3: I Here's the thing I have to deal with is 270 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 3: that my husband does not like what he calls slimy food. 271 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 3: It doesn't like zucchini, he doesn't like he doesn't like 272 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 3: egg plant. Although I've been starting to sneak it into asaka. 273 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 2: You didn't know that Musaka. 274 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 3: Had well trick. You have to cook it the right way, 275 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 3: otherwise it will be rubbery. 276 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 2: You know, when I came to this country, I went 277 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: into a green grocer and I asked for egg plan. 278 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: They brought me a dozen eggs. So, if everybody listening, 279 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 2: we're talking. So you had people who were passionate about 280 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 2: food and food identity and and and. 281 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 3: And like my mother was, she was a scientist. She 282 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: loved to cook. She loved the chemistry food. So for example, 283 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 3: and she was, you know, unlike this guy in the 284 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 3: White House, she understood that scientific research is obviously a 285 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 3: passion that is about improving the human condition. That scientific 286 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 3: research in its best is going to be pure reviewed. 287 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 3: It will be a collaborative effort among nations. So my mother, 288 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 3: for example, had colleagues from all over the world. And 289 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 3: I remember, in particular the Brescianis from Italy and Franco 290 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 3: Breciani and his kids, Marco and Paolo and Megan, and 291 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 3: we used to go and visit with the Brescianis, and 292 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 3: no we go to the they lived in Toronto, and 293 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 3: my mother would take my sister and me and we'd 294 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 3: go visit with them, and they and Tira, the mother, 295 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 3: the wife, this long table where we would sit for 296 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 3: hours and just course after course after course, and conversation 297 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 3: and passionate conversation and good arguments, and people would get 298 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 3: up and walk away and come back for hours. So 299 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 3: my mother, actually she would cook with Tira, and my 300 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 3: mother was a great Italian cook in addition to South 301 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 3: Indian food. She got on this kick for quite some 302 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 3: time about us making Chinese food, like we would sit 303 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 3: on the floor and make bows and then we would 304 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 3: do wan tons and we would So she loved cooking 305 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 3: in the kitchen. It was the center of all activity. 306 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 2: Was it big? 307 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 3: It was? 308 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 2: It was? 309 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 3: It was, it was. It felt big to me. 310 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't in there. 311 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 3: We would eat in there and and and my mother 312 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 3: said to me when I was young, and you can 313 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 3: tell the kids that like to eat good food, right, 314 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 3: And my mother said to me, I'll never forget. She said, 315 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 3: you like to eat good food, you better learn how 316 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: to cook. 317 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: I agree, because I can't ask me why why do 318 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 2: I start cooking? There's a point either. If you don't 319 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 2: have the money to go out to a restaurant every 320 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 2: night and you want to eat, well, well, then you 321 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 2: learned to you know, you learn to cook. 322 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 3: I have apron I got it from a friend, and 323 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 3: it says I like to cook the food people like 324 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 3: to eat. 325 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 2: So when did you start cooking when I was from 326 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 2: the beginning? 327 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 3: Well, I remember one of the first things that I 328 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 3: would make where we would wake up early, mommy's sleeping, 329 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 3: and I would make scrambled eggs and I'd make it 330 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 3: into a circle on a plate, and then I would 331 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 3: cut monterey jack or cheddar cheese to make a smiley 332 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 3: face melted on top of this. 333 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 2: What age are we talking about? 334 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 3: Six. And here's the thing about that. My mother did 335 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 3: not like eating breakfast. I was like, don't talk about it. 336 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 3: Of course you had a cup of coffee, right, But. 337 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 2: Tell me about a day in your house. Would you 338 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 2: all have breakfast? How many were you in the house. 339 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 3: It was the three of us, my mother and my 340 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 3: sister and me because my parents divorced when I was five, 341 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 3: And it was usually my mother would start cooking, like 342 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 3: Saturday morning they make for the week, and I'd wake 343 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 3: up kind of just smelling the food and just kind 344 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 3: of just half asleep going into the kitchen. And and 345 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 3: you know that's the thing about cooking, right, it really 346 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 3: is all the senses. It's literally all the senses. It 347 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 3: includes the sense of sound, sound, and of course smell 348 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 3: and sight and flavor and taste. It's all of those things. 349 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 2: Would she repeat, did you know that Monday was lasagna 350 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 2: on Tuesday? 351 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 3: Would she not? She would? Sometimes she would because she 352 00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 3: worked long day. She always fresh bake cookies, cake in 353 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 3: the house. She was phenomenal and and she loved she 354 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 3: loved to cook. And sometimes she would look at us 355 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 3: and she'd say, okay, girls, tonight we are having smogashboard. 356 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 3: We get so damn excited about smogast board. Do you 357 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 3: know what smogt board was? 358 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 2: That's a Danish well open sandwiches or some of what 359 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 2: it was. What it was. 360 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 3: Is that she would take cookie cutters and cut the 361 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 3: bread into heart and flower shapes. She'd get those those 362 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 3: toothpicks with the little colors on them, and she'd put 363 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 3: little mayonnaise in a thing, mustard in a thing, and 364 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 3: pull out all the leftovers. 365 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: And we were having smallest. 366 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 3: All the leftovers. But it was fun. 367 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 2: It was fun, sounds amazing. She was a scientist. 368 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 3: She was a breast cancer research and she actually was 369 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 3: responsible for breakthroughs and breast cancers. 370 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 2: So would you come home from school and would the 371 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 2: cookies be there? 372 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 3: The cookies would be there. Why we're so called latch 373 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 3: kid kids. But then Miss Shelton two doors and so 374 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 3: if mommy was working late, we would go and have 375 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 3: dinner and Miss Shelton's and she cooked oh everything from 376 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,959 Speaker 3: okra to oh my god. She made the most incredible gumbo. 377 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 3: That was on special occasions. She used to do a 378 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 3: cabbage in like a Dutch of a heavy bottomed pot 379 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 3: and she would just cook it, cook it down and it. 380 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: Was just so good. 381 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 2: It's that thing of vegetables being cooked for that's very Italian. Yeah, yes, 382 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 2: we always say that Italians, right, No, right, we never 383 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 2: you sort of cook it and then as olive oil. 384 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 3: And that's exactly what happened with the cabbage. And it 385 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 3: was so delicious. It's just full of flavor. I mean 386 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 3: she cooked with and I still retain I have. I 387 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 3: love my spices, but there are certain things that I 388 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 3: just still hold on to and you can't take it 389 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 3: away from me. One of them Lowry's seasoning salt. 390 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 2: Oh Lowry as. 391 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 3: In the Yes, yeah, I only pull it out for 392 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 3: some stuff, but it's it's that. 393 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 2: But if you you grew up in this where you had, 394 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: you know, your mother cooking and being you know, telling 395 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 2: you how much you would loved and having dinners and 396 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 2: having Miss Shelton and having Freddy, And what was it 397 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 2: like to leave this? I mean when you suddenly became 398 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 2: seventeen or eighteen and went to university and you you 399 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 2: went to Howard? Did I went to Howard? 400 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 3: And what was that? 401 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 2: Was that? 402 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 3: Ed? 403 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 2: It prepared you. 404 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 3: All of my friends, in particular my girlfriends in college, 405 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 3: they also like to cook My first roommate was Cape 406 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 3: Verdian and there was there was a whole dish, you know, 407 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 3: and there's a. 408 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 2: Was Kate Virgianot, who's. 409 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 3: There's you know, the whole population of Cape Verdian's outside 410 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 3: of Massachusetts. I didn't know that, Yes, and that's where 411 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 3: she was from. And so she would make this dish 412 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 3: and I don't remember the name of it, but with 413 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,959 Speaker 3: like lima beans and all that, and it was very 414 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 3: it was delicious. Where did you have a fun We 415 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 3: we had a little kitchen in the dorm in our yes, 416 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 3: in our dorm. And then another of my girlfriends, Gwen, 417 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 3: who was from Detroit, she had a different version of 418 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 3: making collar greens than I did. 419 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very American colored greens. You know, colored greens 420 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 2: are Southern. 421 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 3: It's a big leaf green and it's very sturdy, and 422 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 3: then you have to cook it down. In fact, someone 423 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 3: recently told the story. When I was campaigning in Iowa 424 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen, our family we decided we needed to 425 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 3: stay in Iowa for Thanksgiving to campaign. But I was 426 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 3: in South Carolina the day before and I always make greens, 427 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 3: collared greens for Thanksgiving. There was no call of greens 428 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 3: to be found in Iowa. So I like a good 429 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 3: country woman, but bags of fresh call of greens in 430 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 3: South Carolina and walk through the airport. I did not 431 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 3: care who saw me. And when I got on the plane, 432 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 3: some of the people on the plane who were from 433 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 3: South Carolina. 434 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 2: Two boats in South Carolina. So you could call a greens. 435 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: You're in college, you major own meals? 436 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 3: You well, sometimes I was on the meal plan. 437 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 2: We haven't talked about restaurants. 438 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,719 Speaker 3: Did you for to eat out in restaurants in school? 439 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 3: I mean we did growing up. We would go from 440 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 3: special occasions and it was always an adventure in terms 441 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 3: of where we would go, right and what kind of 442 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 3: you know, what we would choose. 443 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 2: And so working, what was that like when you were 444 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 2: suddenly working. 445 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 3: Well you know then I mean in my twenties, going 446 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 3: out it was you know, socialism, So it was you know, 447 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 3: fun meeting with friends in San Francisco, which it has 448 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 3: an incredible foods It was the Bayry altogether, so open 449 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 3: in San Francisco, so the nineties nineties and incredible food 450 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 3: scene and again eclectic by some people's standards, right, and 451 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 3: I mean everything from you know, the best barbecue you 452 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 3: can imagine to incredible sushi. We would go like Sundays 453 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 3: or Saturdays for dim sum, all of those. 454 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the farm to table and. 455 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 3: We had the fact and Alice ad her cookbook was 456 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 3: probably early on the artisty started. Yeah, I have so 457 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 3: my bowlin aisy, my world famous bolan is, according to me, 458 00:28:54,160 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 3: is hybrid of Alice and Marcella. Yeah, so I do 459 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 3: for example, I do the panchetta. 460 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 2: Okay, this could be your recipe read yeah, all right, 461 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 2: we're gonna now hear a recipe. 462 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 3: For okay's title Tla Harrison's world Famous bowlin. 463 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 2: Okay, I like the I like the low key why not? Okay, 464 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 2: so tell us how to make this? 465 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 3: Okay, So I start with my Dutch oven little crusette, 466 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: just nice and I have had it forever. 467 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 2: Color is orange. 468 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 3: I have two actually because when I was back and forth, 469 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 3: one is white and one is blue. But the oval right, panchetta. 470 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 3: So then I do my mare past. So I do 471 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 3: very small chopping of onion, of celery, of carrot there. 472 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 3: Then I do garlic after, you know, because I don't 473 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 3: want it to burn. Then I do a combination of 474 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 3: beef and pork. Then I do you know, there's a 475 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 3: theory about whether you should do the wine first or 476 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 3: the milk first. I am of the school that you 477 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 3: should do the milk first. Okay, So I do the 478 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 3: milk then. And also I sage and time. And I 479 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 3: have a beautiful oh I do. I have an herb garden, 480 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 3: and my bay leaf tree is just it's just the 481 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 3: most beautiful thing you have ever seen. I bring bay 482 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 3: leaf to people as gifts. I just put a nice 483 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 3: fancy ribbon on it, and then I let it reduce 484 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 3: around the milk. And then I do pretty much a 485 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 3: whole bottle of wine white. 486 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 2: I describe the wine. 487 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 3: I do a white, and I usually do I mean, 488 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 3: you know, not super expensive. I know you're supposed to 489 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 3: do whatever you drink, but I you know, and. 490 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 2: This would be for how many people? 491 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,239 Speaker 3: I do often three times the recipe so I can 492 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 3: freeze some, okay. Then I do a combination of a 493 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 3: little bit of tomato paste and Saint Marzano tomatoes, and 494 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 3: then I cook it for hours and hours. 495 00:30:58,680 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 2: How many hours? 496 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 3: I usually about five? 497 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 2: Okay, are you stirring it every half an hour or so? 498 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: Very low heat? 499 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's very low heat. It just did very 500 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 3: light summer rental. The oil starts to write and then 501 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 3: it's just it's fantastic, and then I will freeze like 502 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 3: two thirds of it because it's such a production, and 503 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 3: I usually do I usually do like a linguine era. 504 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 3: I don't do spaghetti. I'd like a flat pond. 505 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 2: Yea, I like it. You know. 506 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 3: I do painting a lot too. 507 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's nice too. 508 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, this is the thing so I actually talk 509 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 3: about in the book. So, having been the first woman 510 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 3: Vice president of the United States, part of what I 511 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 3: never talked about publicly but do kind of reveal in 512 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 3: the book is forty eight vice president of the United 513 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 3: States were men. We lived in the Vice President's residence, 514 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 3: and we're supported by naval enlisted AIDS. And if I 515 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 3: was on a trip to come, I came to the 516 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 3: UK to talk about the future safety of AI. I 517 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 3: went to the Indo Pacific many times, so on and 518 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 3: so on. If I was out of the house, they 519 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 3: all left to travel with me and nobody would cook 520 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 3: for Doug. So as Vice President of the United States, 521 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 3: I made a few times a big pot of bowlin 522 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 3: aisy to freeze containers so that my husband could eat. 523 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 3: When I was doing the business of the United States 524 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 3: of America. 525 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 2: Okay, we can preserve that, so you can channel that. 526 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 3: So that was that was That was one of the 527 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 3: occasions in which I would freeze out. 528 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 2: Only one more story than that is that when we 529 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 2: talked to Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell too. We had 530 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 2: two podcasts. One with Alistair, they described that if you 531 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: were Downing Street and you wanted lunch, somebody had to 532 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 2: get down to Predamache and bring back the sandwiches. 533 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 3: You know that that you know, and I just think 534 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 3: you see behind the. 535 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 2: Cross. I just keeps holding France up as a as. 536 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 3: The best, one of the best dinners ever. 537 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 2: Going to ask you, was. 538 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 3: There the cheese, of course, Oh the cheese. It was 539 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 3: so just yeah, everything everything was just exquisite, just the 540 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 3: detail and the beauty of it. 541 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 2: No, it's true. Mark Carney told me the other day 542 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 2: that they were on a train. If you go to Ukraine, 543 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 2: you absolutely have to take the train on a trip. 544 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 2: And Canadians had a car, the British had a car, 545 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 2: the French had a car. And he said that, you know, 546 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 2: the Canadians just brought some stuff in Poland and put 547 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 2: on the train. The British had nothing, and then they 548 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 2: went into the French car and they had cheese and wine, 549 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 2: and there was a incredible fox gras and he said, 550 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 2: it's just each each train carriage was so specifically clear 551 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 2: about the country's attitude to culture and food. 552 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 3: Culture. 553 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 2: Yes, and state dinners. Because I was going to ask 554 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 2: you about when you were actually vice president. The schedule. 555 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 2: I can only imagine. Would you stop flunch? Would you 556 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 2: have working lunches? Did it very I. 557 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 3: Almost always ate lunch at my desk. 558 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 2: What would that be? 559 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 3: It would be a combination of maybe like fish and 560 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 3: vegetables or a salad, or. 561 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 2: Was it like the West Wing. Did you do dinner 562 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 2: formal dinners? 563 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,919 Speaker 3: We did diners, which I unless it was family. Yeah, yeah, 564 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 3: we did. We did a lot of formal dinners. I 565 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,720 Speaker 3: would go down to the kitchen, to the industrial kitchen 566 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 3: and cook with them and also share with them technique. 567 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 2: Really uh huh. 568 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 3: The first person and I actually talked about in the 569 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 3: book that I hosted for a meal was then Chancellor 570 00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 3: Angle and Merkel. 571 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 2: Would you do the menus? Would you say this is 572 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 2: what we. 573 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 3: Would I would work with my yeah, social secretary and 574 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 3: plan the menus every one of them, though pretty much 575 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 3: I participated in planning State dinners were just magnificent and beautiful. 576 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 3: And you know, this was a beautiful aspect of the 577 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 3: power of diplomacy, which we call soft power. And sadly, 578 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 3: the current occupant of the White House, I think does 579 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 3: not appreciate the significance of that power. 580 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 2: We goes back to a childhood they getting together over food, 581 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 2: meeting over food. This morning, media to the house. And 582 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 2: that's something on your plate. And you said, the act 583 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 2: of actually putting something on somebody else's plate. Try this beautiful. 584 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 3: It is an act of love, it truly is. It 585 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 3: is a gesture of of kindness. It is a gesture 586 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 3: of caring. You know, there's nothing like and I told you, 587 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,760 Speaker 3: like just there is nothing like sitting at a table 588 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 3: and someone prepares a plate for you and puts it 589 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 3: in front of you from the kitchen that you can see. 590 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 3: There is nothing like that. 591 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 2: We have to do more of that. Yes, we are going, yes, yea. 592 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 2: My last question always on these conversations is is there 593 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 2: a food that you would go for when you need comfort? 594 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 3: Pasta pasta all day long, pasta all day long. And 595 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 3: I have in my garden a lot of beautiful basil. 596 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 3: And sometimes I just make a big, big batch of pesto, 597 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 3: and but I freeze it without the cheese. And I 598 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,720 Speaker 3: have this thing almost like an ice tray. Each slot 599 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 3: is a cup worth of liquid. And so I make 600 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 3: a big batch of pesto one cup, and then I 601 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 3: freeze these bricks and then you just defrosted, and then I. 602 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 2: Do, and then you have the cheese. You are such 603 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,280 Speaker 2: a good cook. Well, you really are a good cook. 604 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 3: I am in awe. You're getting you are? You know? 605 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 2: The little it's you know, you know people who are 606 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 2: good cooks because they love food. But your detail, you know, 607 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 2: it's like the way you are in this book. It's 608 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 2: the way you run a campaign. It's the way you 609 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 2: talk to my granddaughter. It's a way you come on 610 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 2: this podcast. There's a rigor, there's a passion, but there 611 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 2: is knowledge and generosity. So you are great cooks and 612 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 2: we're going to cook together. 613 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 3: I'm so looking forward to that. Are you kidding me? 614 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 2: Let's go do it with you. Thank you. Ruthie's Table 615 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 2: for is proud to support Leukemia UK. Their Cartwill for 616 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 2: a Cure campaign raises funds for vital research and more 617 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 2: effective and kinder treatments for a cube my Lloyd leukemia. 618 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: Please donate and to Doucello search cartwheel. 619 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 2: For pure. 620 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four was produced by Alex Bell and zad 621 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,760 Speaker 1: Rogers with Susanna Hilock, Andrew Sang and Bella Sellini. 622 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 3: This has been an atomized production for iHeartMedia. 623 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four in collaboration with Me and M Intelligence 624 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: Style for Busy Women