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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Said day,

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Speaker 1: I'm here with my good buddy, Corey Miller. I met

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Speaker 1: Corey when he owned Triple X Archery down in Oregon,

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Speaker 1: and then since then he's uh, he's moved to Montana

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Speaker 1: for the for the he ran away from Western Washington

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Speaker 1: and now works for dart and Archery Black eagl Archerie

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Speaker 1: and excited to have him on the show. To Hey, Ben, Corey,

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Speaker 1: you know Glad.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you heard. I guess I was

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Speaker 2: doing my tour through the beautiful state of Oregon and Washington,

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Speaker 2: and I.

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Speaker 1: See I was in Kansas hunt, but I've seen pictures

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Speaker 1: of the beautiful Uh people wanted your bows in the

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Speaker 1: back of your truck more than you did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they broke my windows out and to my bows.

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Speaker 2: But other than that, just reminded me why I wanted

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Speaker 2: to live in Montana and just kind of be left

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Speaker 2: alone out here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You and then the when you came to help get

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Speaker 1: my boat set up. You drove it all the way

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Speaker 1: from Montana to Washington. We got it all set up

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Speaker 1: and I think we had three inches of rain that day. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was that was That was a good reminder of

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Speaker 1: how much easter rain here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it's just barely start a snow here, So

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Speaker 2: I'll take the snow over the rain.

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Speaker 1: So no, we've you know, I I was always just,

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Speaker 1: I would say, a bow hunter. I never knew anything

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Speaker 1: about bow's. I would say, I still can't really set

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Speaker 1: my bow up. But you know, back back in the

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Speaker 1: old days, you would just go to the you know,

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Speaker 1: we had George here and I don't remember, do you

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Speaker 1: remember what his shop was? Originally twelve there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, on Jackson Highway.

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Speaker 1: So I had a local or the archery House, archery

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Speaker 1: house at archery House. So you know, I grew up

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Speaker 1: as a as a right full muzzloader hunter, and so

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Speaker 1: when I got into archery, you know, you buy a

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Speaker 1: bow back then, it was pick a bow off of

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Speaker 1: the front page of the you know, the Cabello's magazine, right,

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Speaker 1: and it was mail order. I didn't know that that

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Speaker 1: wasn't the way you're supposed to do it. They would

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Speaker 1: really prefer if she went and bought a bow off

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Speaker 1: of their off of the rack, and so I had

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Speaker 1: to find somebody set it up. Evidently you can't just

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Speaker 1: you know, put a put a rest on everything on.

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Speaker 1: And so I did that for a couple of years,

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Speaker 1: and you know, through the Internet, the explosion Internet realized

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Speaker 1: that Corey was down there at Triple X Archery, went

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Speaker 1: down there and really started I wouldn't say it became

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Speaker 1: a student, but started to pay more attention like does

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Speaker 1: this matter? Do I need to focus on this? And

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Speaker 1: Corey was the one that kind of you know, he

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Speaker 1: He's got an uncanny way of letting you know, like Jason,

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Speaker 1: spending spending this on that rest isn't going to make

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Speaker 1: you shoot more or you know, or shoot better, or

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Speaker 1: spending this much more money on a site, because in

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Speaker 1: my mind back then, it's like, well, obviously the better

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Speaker 1: this or that is going to make me a better shooter.

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Speaker 1: And and Corey was pretty pretty uh up front, He's like,

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Speaker 1: why don't you spend more time shooting?

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Speaker 3: Or why don't you do this and that?

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Speaker 1: And and so that's really what I want to jump

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Speaker 1: into today a little bit is what matters, you know,

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Speaker 1: four a hunter, what matters for a target archer? What

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Speaker 1: you know when I look at a bow, You've got

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Speaker 1: your bow, then you've got your site, your rest, your stabilizer,

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Speaker 1: you got your release you've got your arrows right, there's

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Speaker 1: just a few things that you could control.

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Speaker 3: And Corey's always did a good job.

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Speaker 1: I've been able to listen to him interact with customers,

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Speaker 1: interact with people that are on his staff that aren't

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Speaker 1: on his staff, and I kind of like the way

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Speaker 1: he approaches it. So I'm excited to have you on

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Speaker 1: here and really just kind of talk through archery and

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Speaker 1: maybe reduce it down to maybe new people in archery

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Speaker 1: or people that have been in it for a long

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Speaker 1: time that maybe aren't the greatest shots or and what

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Speaker 1: really matters and what they should probably focus on more

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Speaker 1: so than than not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's definitely most definitely learning how to

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Speaker 2: shoot a bow is top priority. And at that point,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if you've got the most expensive or

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Speaker 2: the cheapest bow. If you don't know how to shoot it,

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Speaker 2: you can only shoot to your ability. And you know,

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Speaker 2: for the most part, most of the bows today will

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Speaker 2: outshoot most of us archers. So they're that good, they're

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Speaker 2: that consistent. I mean, we've really pushed everything as almost

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Speaker 2: as far as we can push it. You know, cam material,

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Speaker 2: string material, riser material, you know, all that stuff has

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Speaker 2: gotten better and more consistent. So learning how to shoot

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Speaker 2: is priority.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we're gonna I'm gonna bause us

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Speaker 1: just for a second. I'm gonna jump into just like

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Speaker 1: three questions that I get that maybe I'm not skilled,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not the appropriate one to answer. So

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna jump in. This is gonna be your Penalton Whiskey,

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Speaker 1: Q and A sessions. So I'm gonna throw three questions

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Speaker 1: at Kory and kind of see, you know what your opinion,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of gets us, gets us into our conversation.

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Speaker 1: But just some questions that I'm I'm you know, given

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Speaker 1: and maybe not the right one to answer. And number one,

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Speaker 1: you know me and you do you know seminars clinics,

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Speaker 1: you know, we both we the last couple of times

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Speaker 1: we've did it, we've been at our our buddy, you know,

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Speaker 1: Ryan Lampers, you know, his Hunt summit, and and Joel

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Speaker 1: Turner's there and he gets into this like mental side

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Speaker 1: of shooting, which I try to completely block out because

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get target panic. I'm so competitive

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Speaker 1: that I don't want to try to hit a perfect

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Speaker 1: circle all the time. So I've always kind of blocked

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Speaker 1: out everything Joel. I like Joel, but I've blocked out

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Speaker 1: everything he tries to teach because I don't want to

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Speaker 1: get inside my own head. But in your opinion, and

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Speaker 1: not as a target archer, I believe that ninety nine

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Speaker 1: percent of the people that listen to this podcast ninety

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Speaker 1: nine percent of people that pick up their bow or

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Speaker 1: it's just strictly bowhunters. But what should you be thinking

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Speaker 1: of as you're shooting? Should you come up with a routine,

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Speaker 1: should you just be thinking about aiming your bow and

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Speaker 1: you know, squeeze your trigger like in your opinion, what

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Speaker 1: should that process be or look like for most guys?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think there is kind of

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Speaker 2: a bridge of target archery to hunting, you know, as

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Speaker 2: far as nerves of kind of getting used to shooting

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Speaker 2: amped up and a little nervous.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Used to go through definitely a shot process, and my

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Speaker 2: main thing was for me is I just kept simple

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Speaker 2: look through the peep because so many times I'll watch

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Speaker 2: guys just draw back and anchor eyes wide open. They

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Speaker 2: forget to even look through the peep and you know,

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Speaker 2: they see the site housing start to fill up with

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Speaker 2: hair and they're just anking the trigger, you know, so

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Speaker 2: trying to keep keep a shot process, keep your mind occupied,

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Speaker 2: I think a little bit better. So I do believe

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Speaker 2: in both sides of you know, kind of a lot

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Speaker 2: of the stuff that Joel's talking about and also keeping

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Speaker 2: it simple. But ever since I've moved to Montana, me personally,

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Speaker 2: like I used to shoot tournament wise, I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: very competitively and very well. When it would come to hunting,

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Speaker 2: it was a different a whole different deal for me

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Speaker 2: because of the heartbeat, and so I never felt like

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Speaker 2: I executed shots like I do on rubber animals or

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Speaker 2: paper targets, so beings. And I'm in Montana and I

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Speaker 2: get to shoot a lot of white tails, I think

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent, I've gotten so much better. I've gotten

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Speaker 2: so much more comfortable of putting a pin on an

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Speaker 2: animal and then going through my shot process. So unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: a lot of us only get an opportunity once a

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Speaker 2: year or maybe once there a couple of years to

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Speaker 2: put the pin on the on the animals. So going

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Speaker 2: through a shot process is going to help as much

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Speaker 2: as it can. But experience, really, but there's just cold

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Speaker 2: boot killers, you know that can't really hit paper. But

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Speaker 2: they break the hunting thing down really simple, like like

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Speaker 2: you're more of that, Like you point to where I

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Speaker 2: need to put an arrow to kill it, and that's it,

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Speaker 2: and you don't overthink that. You just pretty much drawback

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Speaker 2: and it's got to be there and touch it off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's for me, uh, you know, and why

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Speaker 1: I try to like block out the mental game. But

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get into hunting versus target accuracy and what's required.

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Speaker 1: But for me, I didn't want you know, I shoot

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Speaker 1: a matrix target and it's got a six inch hecks

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Speaker 1: in the middle, right, and I I as long as

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Speaker 1: I'm in that. And maybe I should put more pressure

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Speaker 1: on myself to be a better archer, but and.

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 1: Okay, right, I'm not the world's best archer, but I

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Speaker 1: shoot pretty good for the most part. But I've never

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Speaker 1: put enough pressure on myself to always hit dead center

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Speaker 1: of the white, you know, like a target archer would

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Speaker 1: need to have to do it twenty yards over and

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Speaker 1: over and over. Like if I'm an inch and a

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Speaker 1: half off, hey, it's okay, Like let's we'll clean that

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Speaker 1: up up next time, or we'll we'll hold a little tighter,

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Speaker 1: or you know, maybe it was the thirtieth shot of

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Speaker 1: the practice session and I'm getting a little bit tired.

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Speaker 1: And so I've really not over complicated the mental side,

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Speaker 1: because I've seen people get target panic. I don't truly

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Speaker 1: understand it, but my understanding is that if I try

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Speaker 1: to overfocus on being perfect, is going to create that

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Speaker 1: because I'm going to try to force a shot and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to try to do these things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I've seen so many new archers come in,

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Speaker 2: get a both set up and shoot really really actually

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Speaker 2: really well. I mean i mean not like professional well,

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Speaker 2: but I mean really well, and then a month later

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Speaker 2: they come in and they've got target panic. And it

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Speaker 2: seems like the majority of that is because they try

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Speaker 2: too hard. They start overthinking and like, Okay, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to get this one right in the middle, and so

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Speaker 2: they really overthink the shot process and next thing, you know,

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Speaker 2: they've got the old panic. And Yeah, so sometimes just

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Speaker 2: being dumb as best.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be. I'm I'm built for this archery thing.

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Speaker 1: But uh yeah, as far as like what I think

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Speaker 1: about as shooting, I'm similar to you. I've made it

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Speaker 1: very you know, a rigid structured thought process. So I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna draw my bow back, and I even think as

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Speaker 1: soon as I start to put tension on my release,

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Speaker 1: like draw smood like because as a hunter, I don't

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Speaker 1: want an arrow to balance off the rest or. I

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Speaker 1: don't want like a hard into the valley. So I'm

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Speaker 1: already thinking like draws mood, don't let this animal see

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Speaker 1: you do this, you know, and if you took it

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Speaker 1: a step back farther like, it doesn't even have anything

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Speaker 1: do with a bow hunter. But I'm already thinking like

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Speaker 1: when can I draw and then making it smooth? So

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Speaker 1: like can I get away with drawing?

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Speaker 3: Now? Can I make it smooth?

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Speaker 1: And then similar to you, I used to have a

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Speaker 1: bad I would look through my peep. I've never not

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Speaker 1: looked through my peep, but I would maybe not center

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Speaker 1: the peep on the you know, I shoot a Montana

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Speaker 1: black gold. So now I make sure to to halo

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Speaker 1: my peep with my center housing. So that's a consistency thing.

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Speaker 1: I've always got my my pins completely centered in just

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Speaker 1: they just barely fit inside the peep size that I select.

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Speaker 1: And then I glance down at my bubble and sometimes

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Speaker 1: me and my bubble this is where you know, things

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Speaker 1: can go a little sideways, because if you know, in

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Speaker 1: a hunting situation, if I'm on a thirty degree side hill,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't believe you and being able to

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Speaker 1: shoot enough with you during three D like, I'll sometimes

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Speaker 1: split it like all right, I'm way out, but I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go about halfway and then shoot what I

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Speaker 1: feel is comfortable, because shooting all the way back to

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Speaker 1: the level is completely uncomfortable. And so for me, for

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Speaker 1: my confidence and just shooting enough, I usually like do

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Speaker 1: a half bubble where I feel like it's comfortable, and

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Speaker 1: then I go into my aiming process, so I've got

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Speaker 1: everything aligned, I've got my bubble where I think it

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Speaker 1: should be, and then you know, go through my my

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Speaker 1: you know, ranging process, and a lot of times I

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Speaker 1: may not have ranged exactly where the animal is. So

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Speaker 1: now I'm back to thinking why I'm in my peep,

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Speaker 1: like is that at the same spot you've ranged, do

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Speaker 1: I need to add or take you away? And then

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Speaker 1: slowly start to squeeze my trigger. And when I say slowly,

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Speaker 1: I also which is probably frowned upon. I've also got

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Speaker 1: the ability to force my shot, which some people can

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Speaker 1: say is good or bad. But as a hunter, you know,

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Speaker 1: and talking with you Corey, like, sometimes you need to

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Speaker 1: make the bow go off. If you're doing everything else right,

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Speaker 1: it's still gonna be okay. And I have practiced that way.

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Speaker 1: But I'll also force a shot a little bit if needed.

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Speaker 1: And so that's my process, whether it's right or wrong.

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Speaker 1: But it's very mechanic, and you know, for all situations,

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Speaker 1: I do the same thing over and over and over.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the biggest you know, like a

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Speaker 2: lot a lot of people think, you know, just punching

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Speaker 2: the trigger is bad. It's not sometimes the most consistent

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Speaker 2: thing for some folks. There are definitely some of the

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Speaker 2: top shooters in the world are punchers. They command shoot.

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Speaker 2: You know. One of the best quotes that one of

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Speaker 2: those guys ever gave me was, I just got to

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Speaker 2: get the pin there. You're trying to keep it there

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Speaker 2: and which which made sense, you know, to me. But

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Speaker 2: my brain doesn't work that way. If I start commanding

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Speaker 2: the trigger, my aiming goes away, and so it's not

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Speaker 2: so much about me just punching the trigger, but then

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Speaker 2: I can't get the pin anywhere near the target that

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Speaker 2: I want to shoot because then I've lost all the

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Speaker 2: control on the function of the release. And so for me,

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Speaker 2: I have to go through a shot process on activating

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Speaker 2: the release, which which helps me with my aim, and

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Speaker 2: the aim is the most important thing. So if I'm

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Speaker 2: not putting a pin anywhere near there, and I'm locking low,

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Speaker 2: and that's where the dangerous side of target panic is

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Speaker 2: is when the guy can't put the pin anywhere near

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Speaker 2: the dot, whether or not he gets it there, and

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Speaker 2: he instantly swipes it away and gets down below it

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Speaker 2: and sits there and then does the drive by shooting,

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Speaker 2: And that's when they they're they're yarding up and trying

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Speaker 2: to punch the trigger at the same time. That's when

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Speaker 2: command commanding the trigger is is at its worst. But

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Speaker 2: if your if your pin is there and you help

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Speaker 2: it not the end of the world.

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Speaker 1: So while we're here, I was I have this question

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Speaker 1: for our discussion later, but I feel like it's a

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Speaker 1: good time to add it in because I've always been interested,

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Speaker 1: like if you took like a body turner or like

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Speaker 1: your if I could somehow equip a red light, a

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Speaker 1: laser light that we could all see, like how much

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Speaker 1: movement should a shooter because That's the thing I struggle with,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm sitting here at full draw, like trying to

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Speaker 1: pull through, and I've always I've found that the you know,

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Speaker 1: if I'm if I'm actively pulling, I'm not like a

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Speaker 1: passive shooter. But if I'm actively engaged, my pin is

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Speaker 1: dancing right from a from a five to a ten,

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Speaker 1: and it swings to the ten, and then we might

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Speaker 1: be low left and it might be I'm over correct

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Speaker 1: and then we're going top right and you're just kind

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Speaker 1: of hovering like I've always just assumed guys like Matt

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Speaker 1: Schmidtz or Body or guys that are good shooters, like,

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Speaker 1: is that damn pin just like sitting over the taneg

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Speaker 1: the entire time and not moving or yes, those guys

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Speaker 1: are fighting with the same demons that I do. Like,

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Speaker 1: is this thing's bouncing everywhere?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing is we can never see what

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Speaker 2: goes inside the brain while they're aiming. So whether or

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Speaker 2: not a Bodie Turner or Site pictures is the same

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Speaker 2: as yours, No, it's not. I mean, those guys aim

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Speaker 2: extremely well, but when you look, if you were to

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Speaker 2: look through their eyes, they're still seeing movement even though

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Speaker 2: when we stand back and we watch them, we're like, man,

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Speaker 2: the guy's rock solid. He's still seeing movement. The difference

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Speaker 2: is he's okay with that movement. He's learned to trust that,

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Speaker 2: where a lot of us feel like we need to

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Speaker 2: hold perfectly still and you don't, you know, because the

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Speaker 2: pin if you're staring at what you're trying to hit,

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Speaker 2: you're always trying to work your way back to that box.

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Speaker 2: So it's okay if it moves. You just don't want

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Speaker 2: these big dips, big violent moves. But if it's humming

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Speaker 2: out there and it's just kind of dancing around, you'd

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Speaker 2: be amazed on how much if you just keep trusting

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Speaker 2: that process and shoot that shot, it's it's going to

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Speaker 2: get there.

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Speaker 1: It surprised me a little bit, and I always hated

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Speaker 1: the idea that if you're just constantly adding, you know,

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Speaker 1: more back tension, you're slowly squeezing through your release. But

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what if this thinge accidentally goes off on

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Speaker 1: that like low left, you know when you're going away,

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Speaker 1: but it surprisingly does come back. But I'm more confident

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Speaker 1: in the way that I think that if I can

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Speaker 1: somehow force that to go off as we're coming back

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Speaker 1: to the center, and it's somewhat controlled. I've always got

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know whether it's sixty seventy percent

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Speaker 1: of the pressure I need to get my release to

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Speaker 1: go off. So I'm always it's not like a huge

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Speaker 1: jerk within the shot or a huge change, it's just

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Speaker 1: a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: Well. The one thing one thing with aiming though, too

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Speaker 2: is it's not only is it the setup of the

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Speaker 2: of the equipment, but it's also the setup in your

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Speaker 2: shot process. Going back to learning how to shoot a

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Speaker 2: bow is so important. Learning how to shoot a bow

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Speaker 2: is also learning how to aim a bow. And so

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00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 2: you will find as you start to push towards the

343
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Speaker 2: target and pull into the stops that pin can the

344
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Speaker 2: movement will will minimize, it'll it'll start to reduce traumatically,

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Speaker 2: you know. So if I'm pushing at you, it's like

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Speaker 2: less likely that the pen can go some other direction.

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Speaker 2: If I'm going I'm pushing it forward toward the target,

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Speaker 2: And same thing with pulling. So that's that initial setting

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Speaker 2: up into the shot and how much do I build

350
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Speaker 2: into the back wall to get the pin to minimize

351
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Speaker 2: its movement. And then now you're activating the release during

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Speaker 2: that time. But yeah, we all move don't overthink that

353
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Speaker 2: side of it.

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Speaker 1: So, uh, you know, as a hunter yourself in your opinion,

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Speaker 1: like what should you know a shooting session look like?

356
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Speaker 1: Like is there an ideal one or is it different

357
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,359
Speaker 1: for everybody? Or like, guy go out and shoot twenty

358
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Speaker 1: random arrows. You know a lot of my sessions look like,

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Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna shoot five from twenty five, from

360
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Speaker 1: thirty five, from forty five from fifty and call a night.

361
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Speaker 1: Like is there is there a number that like builds

362
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 1: better muscle memory or is there just no standard?

363
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Speaker 2: You know? I I part of me like the functionality

364
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,679
Speaker 2: of a bow is like riding a bike to me,

365
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Speaker 2: I mean, I haven't rode a bike in three years.

366
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Speaker 2: If I got on, I'm not gonna crash. I'm not

367
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Speaker 2: gonna fall over. It's not that hard. It's the mental

368
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Speaker 2: side of it, like the repetitive like looking through the site,

369
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Speaker 2: seeing movement, trusting movement, how much movement, and activating the release.

370
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Speaker 2: So depends on what you're trying to work on, you know,

371
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Speaker 2: if you're just and I think that's where a lot

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Speaker 2: of people make mistakes, is they they call practice the

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Speaker 2: amount of arrows they shoot. And if you're not practicing something.

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Speaker 2: It's just like any other sport. If you're a wrestler,

375
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Speaker 2: you're working on certain moves. If you're a baseball player,

376
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 2: you're working on footwork, throwing, dance, you know, movement, You're

377
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Speaker 2: you're breaking everything down. And it's the same thing with archerie.

378
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,119
Speaker 2: If you really want to get good at it, you

379
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 2: break down certain things and you practice those things for

380
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 2: those days. So depending on what you're trying to accomplish,

381
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Speaker 2: But just shooting arrows does not make you a better archer.

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Speaker 1: I just noticed, like especially when I pick up a

383
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Speaker 1: bow or like right now, since I'm so far away

384
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 1: from big game season, you know, even my white tail hunt,

385
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,520
Speaker 1: Like I stop shooting my bow for that two months, right,

386
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 1: and then you get to the white tail rut and

387
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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, pins moving more. My you know, I'm

388
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 1: not as trained. You know, I'm fatigue faster. And that's

389
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Speaker 1: what I I'm just out there trying to you know,

390
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Speaker 1: cause I hesitate to say this, But for me, I

391
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Speaker 1: shoot the same whether I pick up my boat for

392
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Speaker 1: the first time of the year, whether it's the day

393
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: before archialk season, like I don't become that much more accurate, like.

394
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,640
Speaker 2: No, and typically like I start out more accurate than

395
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,119
Speaker 2: I am because I start overthinking stuff no longer I

396
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 2: start shooting, you know, you know, especially like we're transitioning

397
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Speaker 2: into target world right now, and so usually the first

398
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,880
Speaker 2: week or so, it's like, man, my expectations aren't there.

399
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 2: So I actually shoot fairly well, and then all of

400
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,879
Speaker 2: a sudden, I start thinking, Okay, I'm gonna try a

401
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: little bit harder, and then and then the wheels fall off.

402
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 3: Fall off. Yeah.

403
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's and my sessions will be you know, as

404
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,480
Speaker 1: an archery hunter, i might go out and only shoot

405
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: three arrows, but I'm gonna try to set my stop

406
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 1: watch and hold the boat for a minute and a

407
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: half and still execute like a good shot. You know,

408
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 1: like you said, maybe working on Maybe that's not teaching anything,

409
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: but it's just letting me know, like, all right, you're okay,

410
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 1: you're on early.

411
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 2: But what what that does can teach is also fatigue,

412
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 2: which is gonna which is going to also help see

413
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 2: a little bit more movement and then you can trust

414
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,959
Speaker 2: more movement in that shot process. You know. So for me,

415
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,880
Speaker 2: like if you're gonna there's certain things of just even

416
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,679
Speaker 2: practicing aiming, and if you have a three D target,

417
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 2: the best thing to do is just to walk around

418
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 2: and say, okay, where do I need to point on

419
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 2: this animal to kill it? You know? Is it tucked

420
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 2: up front? Is it coming back from the third rib back?

421
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 2: You know? Not necessarily we're looking at scoring rings, but

422
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: looking at angles of how would I address that, and

423
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 2: then working on just drawing back and pointing the pin

424
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 2: on it. If it's working on execution of shop process.

425
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 2: I like shooting up close or shooting at big dots.

426
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: I want my brain to say it's okay to put

427
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: the pin in the dots, Okay to see the movement,

428
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 2: It's okay to activate the release as I see movements.

429
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 2: So that's all reinforcing positive stuff. By shooting up close

430
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 2: and shooting at bigger dots, A lot of people think,

431
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 2: you know, shooting at smaller dots. For some people maybe

432
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 2: that does help, but for me it's it's the trust

433
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 2: factor and not getting anxiety any about trying to hold somewhere.

434
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 2: So I like shooting big dots, yep, up close.

435
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: We'll get we'll get into that on my side a

436
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 1: little bit on hunting versus target and what accuracy is

437
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 1: really required to go out there on shooting the big

438
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 1: dots or pipe plates. For me, last question is a

439
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: new hunter, what distance should I prepare for? Like, you know,

440
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 1: you got these guys making one hundred yard shots everyone

441
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: on social media like three hundred yard shots now or

442
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: four hundred yard shots. It's like, realistically, where should you

443
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: set your site tape up to? How much time should

444
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 1: you spend shooting there? And then realistically we can both

445
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: answer like the majority of your shots should be well

446
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: under that unless you're out in open country letting them fly.

447
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 2: That's kind of a bad question, you know, I mean

448
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: because honestly, like like with social media right now, I

449
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 2: see so much fighting in arguments, and at the end

450
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 2: of the day, a lot of this stuff is morals

451
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 2: up to you. Your equipment that you want to use,

452
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: your distance that you want to shoot, the animal size

453
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 2: that you want to kill. All that stuff is up

454
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 2: to you, And I don't care what anybody else's opinion

455
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: is my personal opinion. I haven't shot an elk over

456
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,360
Speaker 2: forty yards in probably fifteen years. Far. Thet shot I've

457
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: taken in those last fifteen was an antelope at fifty

458
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 2: two yards this year, everybody's going to be different, and

459
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 2: whatever those decisions that you make, you have to live

460
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 2: and die by those. So we've all lost animals, I'm

461
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 2: pretty sure you know, and it sucks, and none of

462
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 2: them make it any better. But I know, for me personally,

463
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 2: if the little voice in my head is questioning whether

464
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 2: or not I should try to attempt this distance or

465
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: this shot and I lose an animal, it burns more

466
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: because I knew better. Yeah, it's a hard question for

467
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 2: me to even say.

468
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And it's all moral and I thinks. But

469
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: as far as like the prac the side of you know, preparing,

470
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: like shooting at eighty yards doesn't make you any better

471
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: of an archer than shooting at for as long as

472
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: your groups are half the size, right, you know, there

473
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 1: are more environmental.

474
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: In a way. I mean, you know, sometimes, like I

475
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: like shooting practice and stuff, I tend to shoot better

476
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 2: at longer distances sometimes than I do, say it, you know,

477
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 2: forty or thirty yards, because my expectations go up so

478
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 2: much more. So I I have less expectation at these

479
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 2: longer distances, and it seems like the site sits better

480
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: and shots break better. But shooting long distance does amplify

481
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: the mistakes. But you also have to be smart enough

482
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 2: to understand what those mistakes are. And then you also

483
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: have to be honest in those mistakes of why am

484
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 2: I missing? Is it because my movement is so bad?

485
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 2: Or is it because my tune is bad? Or is

486
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: it because I'm punching the release? You know, So there's

487
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: it will definitely show you some stuff, but you also

488
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 2: got to be smart enough to understand what it's showing

489
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 2: you to fix it, gotcha, But definitely, you know, the

490
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 2: longer you shoot the further distances. Everybody will say the

491
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: closer shots seem easier. I don't know. Yeah, they all

492
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 2: can mean something. So the more it means something, the

493
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: harder the shot is.

494
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yep, no, no, that was a tough question.

495
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: And and you know it gets into the moral and

496
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: ethics of it, which, as you said, only the hunter

497
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: or the archer can can you answer that what's good

498
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: for them and what they should prepare for the day.

499
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: It's all on them the shot they decided to take

500
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:40,479
Speaker 1: on a live animal.

501
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so sometimes you know, sometimes the negative side

502
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 2: of that is shooting target wise at long distances can

503
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 2: give some guys some false hope, and there again it

504
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: kind of goes back into that moral thing of that

505
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: guy's decisions. But we all know, we all can agree

506
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: that the further the distance, more things can happen. That

507
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 2: animal can turn, that animal can take a step, the

508
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 2: wind can blow. There's just there's a lot of things

509
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 2: that can happen at longer shots.

510
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 3: Yep.

511
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, thanks for jumping in as and answering those

512
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 1: Penalton questions and answers. Once again, if you guys have

513
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: questions for myself, for our guests, feel free to email

514
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: them to us at CTD at Phelps Gamecalls dot com,

515
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: or send us a message on social media. We'll do

516
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: our best to get them get them in here. So

517
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: now we're gonna jump into the conversation I wanted to have.

518
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: You know, and if you sit around a bow shop

519
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: long enough for if you cruise the internet for long enough,

520
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: it seems like everybody is trying to and buy their

521
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 1: way to be in a better shot, or buying their

522
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: way into more x's, I guess you could say on

523
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: the target. So I'm going to open this up. Is

524
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: there a way to spend money to become better or

525
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: is it truly in the mechanics of you know, your

526
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: shot or your practice or your mental you know side

527
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: of the game.

528
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 2: Best money spent is probably coaching, which of us never do. Equipment.

529
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: There's certain equipment I do definitely think that you can

530
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: purchase that can help releasing one of them.

531
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: Because can we dive into coach not to interrupt you,

532
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: let's dive into coaching a little bit. So like for

533
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: me as a guy that plays football, basketball, baseball, Like

534
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: in my mind, there's all this stuff I can coach

535
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,959
Speaker 1: you on you There's so many different aspects like an

536
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: archery coach, like are they gonna you know, just is

537
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: it literally them watching you shoot and making corrections or

538
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: are they going to give you like are there are

539
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: there certain things you should be doing, like you had

540
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, when you practice, you should be practicing, you know,

541
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: on improving certain things. So like what does an archery

542
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: coach look like?

543
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's gonna be different levels of that of

544
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: what your expectations are as an archer. So if it's

545
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 2: like I am a brand new archer and I need

546
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 2: a coach to start me from the basics from my foot,

547
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 2: my stance to how I grip a bow, my posture,

548
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: my head alignment, my release alignment. There's that type of coach.

549
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 2: It's more of a form coach, and then there's more

550
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: of a coach for the mental side. After you've kind

551
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 2: of gotten that side down, then it kind of goes

552
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 2: into the mental side of things. So it depends on

553
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: what your expectation of being an archer is and what

554
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: were you are as an archer, So learning the good

555
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: fundamentals of proper draw lengths. The unfortunate thing is that

556
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: everybody on the internet is a coach, and every one

557
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: of them will tell you what you're doing wrong. And

558
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of these people like to

559
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: tell you what you're doing wrong, so that makes them

560
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: sound like they're educated and know what they're talking about.

561
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 2: If I can point out everything you're doing wrong. I've

562
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: never seen anybody really ever get on there and point

563
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 2: out all the good things someone's doing. And I think

564
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: a lot of it is because they really don't know.

565
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: And so it's always the same thing. Your drawings too long,

566
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: you're gripping the bow and you're punching the release. It's

567
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 2: the same always, over and over and over and over

568
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: So I think the other problem is there also is

569
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: a lot of archers that want to help other archers,

570
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: and so there's you can get overwhelmed with a lot

571
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: of information and sometimes it's good. But if I had

572
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: any advice to anybody is either find a coach, and

573
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: if you can't find a coach in your area, try

574
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: to go to some league nights and find a good

575
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: archer who has time and who is willing to maybe

576
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: help you. And stick with one person, one person, and

577
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: because you'll will get bombarded by ten other people telling

578
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: you something different at the end of the day, listen

579
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: to one person and then you're going to be so

580
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: much better off.

581
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: Gotcha, Okay, all right, I'll let you. I'll let you

582
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: keep rolling back to the equipment now, So the end.

583
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: Of the equipment side, I definitely think you know a

584
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: release on how a release functions goes back into that

585
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 2: mental side of shot execution too, So having having a

586
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: release that you are comfortable with. So a lot of

587
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: cheaper releases run on springs, so there there's a lot

588
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 2: more travel into the triggers. So if you are a

589
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: guy trying to learn how to do back tension and

590
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: pull through a shot you're feeling. You're feeling that trigger

591
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: starting to move, move, move, and every time that thing

592
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 2: is starting to move, that anxiety of the shot happening

593
00:30:54,800 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: starts doing increase where you get into a high quality released,

594
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: whether or not be an index released. Carter like Mike's

595
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 2: have sears that you actually engage a seer, which gives

596
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: you a trigger with no travel, and that's where most

597
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: of your thumb releases buttons are that way. They have

598
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: a seer that you engage, you cock it. You're setting

599
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: the hammer the seers, and then you can you can

600
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: set that tension to what feels good for your brain.

601
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: Some guys like a real heavy trigger, some guys like

602
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: a lighter trigger. You know, for me, it's kind of

603
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: that medium. I want to be not scared of touching

604
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 2: the barrel, but I want to know that I actually

605
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: have to pull on that or push on that barrel

606
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: to get it to fire. So a release definitely can

607
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: you can buy some of that in that. The next

608
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: thing would probably be an air arrest, because they are

609
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: arrest is something that's probably moving. I think where you

610
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 2: overspend definitely one hundred percent is on a site. I'll

611
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: get hate for this one. Probably I can't see spending

612
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 2: the dollars on a lot of the sites. I think

613
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: target wise, yes I can. I can justify some of

614
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 2: this stuff, but hunting wise, there's a lot of that

615
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: stuff is overrated for hunters. You know. For me personally,

616
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: I don't shoot past forty yards. I don't need a

617
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 2: lot of that stuff. It gives me something to point

618
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: with as long as it's sturdy, that's all I care about.

619
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, some of these sites are eight hundred dollars.

620
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: They don't even range find for you. And then you

621
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: get the ones that do range find for you. I

622
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: don't even know where those are at anymore. But it's like, man,

623
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: it's just you know, crazy expensive. And you know, I

624
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: was humbled because I've got a movable site.

625
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: Right.

626
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: So, our buddy Matt Schmidt shows up to my house

627
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: he wants to learn how to elk call one day,

628
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: and evidently he's going to teach me how to shoot.

629
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was signed up for that, but like,

630
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: the guy shoots what was it seven or eight fixed pins?

631
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: He you know, he had a seven and then added

632
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: some other pins to it or something, and like, so

633
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: I'm out here trying to dial to the exact range,

634
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: and he's just out there, and I'm like, all right,

635
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: evidently this slider doesn't matter. You know, he's just and

636
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: and so it's kind of enlightening. And if you think

637
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: about it, we talked about it, as long as your

638
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: pin's not haloed, and there's not, you know, it's bright

639
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: and it's got enough fiber optic hanging out of it,

640
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: like it's literally just a fixed reference diameter. It's a

641
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: fixed diameter of a glow, like it's got some bright

642
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: light at a point zero one nine, or it's got

643
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: a bright light at point zero zero nine. As long

644
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: as that thing solid and doesn't I think you might

645
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: you might be willing to spend more on a site

646
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: as a hunter that you know, like, all right, it's

647
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: fairly durable, right, I.

648
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: Want to aluminum housing. I don't want plastics other than that.

649
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: Like for the last until someone stole my site, I

650
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 2: didn't have third access leveling on it. I didn't want it.

651
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: I didn't need it. I shoot two pins twenty forty

652
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: and it's also it's that gap for me twenty forty

653
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: on an ELK. Is that actually a range finder? It's

654
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: it's the back to the belly of an elk at

655
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: fifty yards. So if I'm at full draw and something

656
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 2: boogers and and I'm still panning over on that elk,

657
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: I can look at that gap of the pins and

658
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: I know if he's inside the shooting range or not,

659
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 2: and then by that I know where my hold is

660
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: with that forty yard pin. So I like to keep

661
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 2: it simple on that, you know, with Matt, with having

662
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: all those pins, but Matt's, you know, a world champion

663
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 2: pin shooter. It's where he really cut his teeth on

664
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: learning how to stack pins gap pins, and you know

665
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: he can. He can shoot all those pins. To me,

666
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 2: it's much too much in my sightline stuff, too confusing

667
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: to me.

668
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: So so you know, then you've got like what I

669
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: would consider you know, your your site and your rest

670
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: seem to be like your two big accessories, and then

671
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: you've got like the minor accessories. You've got your stabilizers,

672
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: You've got these other like are those in my mind?

673
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: They're just a distance with a sentiment of weight, right,

674
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: And not to discredit any of these companies out here

675
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: making great stabilizers, but it's like, all right, I've got

676
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: a ten inch rod with four ounces of weight, or

677
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: I've got an eight inch odd with twelve you know,

678
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: whatever it is, or a sidebar or this or that,

679
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: like those are really just to set the shooter up

680
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: to minimalize movement and kind of balance that bow out correct.

681
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 2: Yep, there's a lot of people that buy them because

682
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 2: they look cool. Back in the day, I mean, a

683
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: stabilizer kind of went to a dampening system. You know,

684
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 2: there were a lot of rubber, they weren't really much carbon,

685
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 2: They didn't really have much weight adjustability, and it was

686
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: more of it. It took vibration out of a bow,

687
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 2: and so people, you know, really took to having a

688
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: stabilizer and then they've transitioned over to more of just

689
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: a carbon rod and then the ability to add or

690
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 2: take off weight to the tip of it, and the

691
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: bows have gotten so dead in the hand that you know,

692
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: it's really not a damper and it and it shouldn't

693
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 2: be a dampner. It should be something to balance a

694
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: bow to slow the aim down. But at the end

695
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 2: of the day, they're they're most of your hunting bars

696
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: are kind of all the same. I mean, there's there's

697
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: not a lot of physical weight that we're putting on it.

698
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: So we're not really putting a lot of force on

699
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 2: that bar as far as if it's a soft carbon

700
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 2: or or a super stiff carbon. So there there's not

701
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 2: a whole lot of difference.

702
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: So you think you can, you know you can. You

703
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: know your money can be well spent on a good

704
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: on a good rest and maybe you know not needed,

705
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, as far as you know types of stabilizers,

706
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: maybe even types of site. So let's get into the

707
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: bow itself, like, is there is there a point where

708
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: there are bows that will help you shoot better? Or

709
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: is that really individualized and customized? It's like, you know,

710
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: brand x y Z may help me shoot better, Brand

711
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: x y Z might not help you shoot better? Or

712
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: are we to a point where technology and advancements are

713
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 1: all these these bows are all going to shoot from

714
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: the four hundred dollars entry level bow up to the

715
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: you know, two thousand dollars Carbon Deluxe.

716
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I mean there there is and there isn't

717
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 2: you know that to me?

718
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 3: Like some of.

719
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: Grips, grip angles, grip position in a bow is important

720
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: to me, CAM draw cycles is important to me. CAM

721
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: backwall is important to me, those those are those are

722
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 2: the big keys for me. Some of the bows are

723
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: definitely lighter or different material carbon you know, night I

724
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: just kind of chuckle when people say, you know, carbon

725
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: is is warmer to the touch? It is?

726
00:37:59,120 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 3: Does it matter?

727
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 2: Buy a lot of hand warmers. So, you know, I

728
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 2: don't know on that. Uh, I don't feel like you do. Well.

729
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 2: I mean there are some bows that that will skimp

730
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 2: to safe cost where they start running a little bit

731
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 2: more polymer stuff into it, such as you know, maybe

732
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: a polymer limp pocket or you know, a polymer mods

733
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: and even that, you know, if I had a choice,

734
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: I would I would take aluminum over polymer. But I mean,

735
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 2: we build guns and stuff out of polymer, so I

736
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 2: think polymer. There's different grades of plastics, so some of

737
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: it's not terrible. But at the end of the day,

738
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: is a is a two thousand dollars bow gonna put

739
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: a bigger elk in front of you than a five

740
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 2: hundred dollars bow.

741
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 3: No, yep.

742
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: So so I'm gonna boil this down to like an

743
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: extreme example. So if I took you know, the very

744
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: first time I had you set up a it was

745
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 1: an old Martin omen too, right.

746
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 2: No, haven't been an omen that's a It was aza

747
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 2: on yeah yeah.

748
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was a three letter word, four letter

749
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 1: word sorry with a So. I brought a Martin ONZA

750
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: two down to Cory. So if I shot horrible with

751
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: a Martin on the two, is me?

752
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: You know?

753
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: Fast forwarding twenty years in technology picking up you know,

754
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: Darton's newest bow or Matthew's newest bow or Prime's newest bow.

755
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: Am I gonna instantly shoot better?

756
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 3: Going?

757
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: Is technology moved that much within the bows or is it?

758
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 3: Is it like no?

759
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 1: And I know your answer to this is like you

760
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: should probably just practice with either one of them more.

761
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, we we killed animals with all that

762
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: old stuff. Is it easier today? Yes? The bows are

763
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 2: easier to tune. We have more options to tune, We

764
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: have more arrows to tune with. We have better broad

765
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 2: edge to tune with. Everything has gotten better. String material

766
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: has gotten better. String material is not constantly moving on

767
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: those older bows. I mean, man, you were constantly chasing,

768
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: you know, the tune of that bow because it was

769
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 2: going in and out with timing. The cam systems were

770
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 2: pretty much you know, a two cam or a solo

771
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: cam problem with a solo cam when that string moved

772
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: the whole knocking point everything shifted. On a two cambo,

773
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 2: you know, the timing went out, so you had the

774
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: cams weren't in sync with each other, so you had

775
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: you know, bad aeroflight because of that. Today, with string

776
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 2: material has gotten much better, bows have gotten much easier,

777
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: more letoff, better holding the walls or firmer. So yes,

778
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 2: you would shoot better from a new bow today from

779
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 2: an old boat. But do you need to spend two

780
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: thousand dollars versus six seven hundred dollars? I hunted with

781
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: our mid price pointed bow. I love that bowt It's

782
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: a fun bow to shoot. Has our same cam. It

783
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 2: doesn't have all the tuning features, but I'm an experienced

784
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 2: archer of knowing how to tear a bow apart and

785
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: put it back together and make a bow, you know,

786
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: tune out to me, So that part wasn't an issue

787
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: for me. If I didn't know as much or have

788
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 2: access to a good pro shop. You know, a bow

789
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: that has some tunability features such as a lot of

790
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: the new bows today, then that's that that's probably good

791
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: money spent, gotcha?

792
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: And then the external component that you know your arrow

793
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: you talked to hit on a little bit, you know

794
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: your arrows is you know there's people make seven five

795
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: three one like, are you know spending twice as much

796
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: on an one arrow versus an five? Or is does

797
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: that matter? Or ninety nine percent of us out there

798
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: not going to be able to see the difference between

799
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: where a five and a one hits.

800
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 2: Well. I mean a human hair is four thousands, so

801
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: when we talk in an arrow, that's an O three

802
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 2: to and oh one, that's half of the human hair

803
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 2: thickness of straightness differences. I don't think that we honestly

804
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: can shoot that. It is a feel good thing. It is.

805
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: It's one of those things where I think if you

806
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 2: have money and it's not financially hurting you, and it's

807
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 2: not financially taken away from tags and and other things

808
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 2: in your life, then you know, definitely buy some O ones.

809
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: I just went out and shut four white tails with

810
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 2: an O five straight arrow. Didn't They didn't die any

811
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 2: better or anything less. I don't I don't think. I

812
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: don't think the majority of us can out shoot it.

813
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: It is a feel good thing and a lot of

814
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 2: times now if you take your time. When you're building

815
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: an arrow, you know, you might you might end up

816
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 2: cutting both ends. You you don't get that choice, you know.

817
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 2: And with being a long draw, you're only maybe cutting

818
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 2: a half an inch or an inch off of an

819
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 2: arrow shaft. So for you, it probably makes a little

820
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: bit more sense to get a straighter arrow, because the

821
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: longer that arrow, the more that does come into play.

822
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: You can agree or disagree.

823
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: Like we've got our buddy Bill vander Hayden from ironwill

824
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: On and and you know, he's an engineer like me,

825
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: but maybe even takes it even more so. He always said, well,

826
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: straightness is straightness, but once that arrow spins, the arrow

827
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: doesn't know what's straight anymore. So soon as it leaves

828
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: the bow and gets stabilized like this.

829
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: Well that's that's yeah, that's I'm glad that he says that,

830
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 2: because that's the thing we want. When we put an

831
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 2: arrow on a spinner, you're putting an object on an object.

832
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 2: When an arrow is in the air, it is not

833
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 2: touching anything. So when it's spinning, you're it's not it's

834
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 2: not like it is when it's on a roller and

835
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 2: you're watching movement. So the most important thing if if

836
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 2: I had to pick anything on an aerow consistency or

837
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 2: a factor would be spine consistency.

838
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's all going to be affected at the lawn.

839
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 2: Then then I would go then I would probably go straightness,

840
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: and then I would go grains accuracy on grains. Yeah,

841
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 2: I mean when we're talking, these guys talking worrying about

842
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: you know, one or two grains, and that's usually one

843
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: or two grains of dust. It doesn't take much for

844
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: a grain and you're sprinkling that over a twenty eight

845
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 2: to or a thirty inch piece of carbon, and even

846
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 2: if you put two or three grains in the nose

847
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 2: of it, you're probably not even going to notice that.

848
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that was his point, is that.

849
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, the straightness, the spine consistency, some of that matters

850
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 1: on you know, take off. Once an arrow gets stabilized,

851
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: you're you know, at any given point in time, the

852
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: unstraight or the crooked side or you know, is it

853
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: a different point around the area, and it's it's balance,

854
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: it's self balancing, it's you know, it's like even though

855
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: it's straight. So his point, you know, and hopefully I'm

856
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: not getting it wrong.

857
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: Well that's why That's why the the initial launch and

858
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 2: that's dictated off of the spine consistency, because that's going

859
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 2: to determine how much or how little and narrow initially

860
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: flexes when it launches from that bow. And so the

861
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 2: more consistent that is, the more consistent the starting point,

862
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 2: the more consistency end result is.

863
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 3: Gotcha?

864
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: Okay, so we touched on arrows. You know, we touched

865
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: on you know, third axis on your sites. Maybe not necessarily,

866
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: you know, I don't need to be shooting from the

867
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: top of my roof down to a target that's you know,

868
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: twenty yards out straight below me, like some of that.

869
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: You know, if you're in steep mountainous stuff, would you know,

870
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: if you're in cliffy, you know, if we were back

871
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: on my goat hunt, would you would third access matter

872
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: there or not?

873
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 3: Or are you still well?

874
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're shooting a machined aluminum riser and

875
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 2: a machine aluminum sit rod, it can't be that far

876
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 2: off and it's not going to move the impact of

877
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 2: the arrow by inches. It's maybe an inch depending on

878
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: the distance, but it's not it's not huge. So and

879
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 2: even though you do have a bow that is perfectly.

880
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 2: Third access level does not mean you shoot the bow

881
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 2: level yep. So a level is giving you a guidance,

882
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: just like a pen is giving you something to point with.

883
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 2: You're giving you something to somewhat get your bow level.

884
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: And if you can't the bow, it will move the

885
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: the arrow, impacting you know, an inch or so and so.

886
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 2: But that's extreme amounts. So even even having wind or

887
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 2: extreme side hill downhill stuff, you may have to overbubble

888
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: into that thing because the arrow is going to go

889
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: to that downhill side regardless. So so sometimes that level

890
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 2: is just a gauge on on where am I starting

891
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 2: and how much am I going to push into that

892
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 2: hill or pushed into the way. Yep.

893
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know talking with you, you know Matt Alwine,

894
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: you know Matt Schmidt. Guys that I've shot at these

895
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: hunting challenges with that are you know, way above average shooters.

896
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: You know, like you can set that on a jig,

897
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: but like you have to shoot that in, like that's

898
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: it gets you close, but then you're gonna have to

899
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: shoot it in the only reason that became a big

900
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: issue for me is because mine was messed with so

901
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: much that it wasn't close to even being accurate. And

902
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: then I was missing by seven or eight inches downhill

903
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: the opposite direction uphill on these step long distance shots,

904
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: and then realized that somebody had messed with it and

905
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: just got me way out of That's.

906
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: The thing with with third axis means that you can adjust.

907
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: Which actually screwed me up, versus if it didn't have

908
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: the adjustability out of be right down the middle.

909
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 2: If they would have just if they just would have

910
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 2: machined that thing ninety degrees over, it probably wasn't going

911
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 2: to be a huge deal. You know, unless you've got

912
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 2: such a turky grip and a turkey bow at full

913
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 2: draw that the boat, you know, really torqued in sideways

914
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: in your hand. Is the third axis going to be off?

915
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: Yep, we won't talk about that with me.

916
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 2: Well, we got kind of like bare poles of hands.

917
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: Let's get into accuracy and what's required. And we talked

918
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: about this a little bit before we even fired the

919
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: podcast up. Is that hunting first target accuracy. I think

920
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: when we talk about accuracy, it all ends up going

921
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: back to what target archers would want, right. Everybody wants

922
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 1: hit the center of the circle or the blue face target,

923
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: or you know the.

924
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 3: Ten X and then.

925
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: What is really required for hunting accuracy? And when you

926
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: look at it through that lens, if you were to

927
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: re ask the question like can you spend money to

928
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: really make it matter?

929
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 3: Yes or no?

930
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: Like I'm just curious, like where should a guy that's

931
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 1: only a guy or gal only concerned with hunting, Like

932
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: how do they find the accuracy that's needed? Or I'm

933
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: going to make the comment almost all modern equipment, we'll.

934
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 3: Get him there.

935
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: And then you can you can either agree with or

936
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: go your own own direction on that answer.

937
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the accuracy. Ye, I mean there's the

938
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 2: it's a pretty big kill zone now and there again

939
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: kind of a a bad topic is is you know,

940
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,479
Speaker 2: shooting one in the guts, it's still the kill zone.

941
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 2: It's it's going to kill him. It's just that's not

942
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,919
Speaker 2: where we want to be because it's it doesn't gives

943
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: us a better chance of finding the animal with blood

944
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 2: trails and and stuff like that.

945
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 3: It's not as quick for the animal which we're now.

946
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the problem is is that it is death.

947
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 2: It is it is you know, it is the kill zone.

948
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 2: It's going to kill that animal. So so realistically, the

949
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: kill zone is big. But yeah, it's not. It's not

950
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 2: like target archery. I mean, especially when you look at

951
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 2: Vegas and stuff, like what body turner does. I mean

952
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 2: he's shooting having to hit you know, a dime every time,

953
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 2: you know, and if he just barely misses that dime,

954
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 2: he can go home. Uh, that there's so many good

955
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,720
Speaker 2: archers in the competition is so tight, you know, where

956
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 2: on an animal it's it's not that it's not that tight.

957
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: But we have other factors that come into play too.

958
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 2: I mean, our target moves, you know, our heart rate

959
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 2: can change differently, our physical you know, derman can change,

960
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 2: you know, whether or not we're exhausted, mentally tired from

961
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,879
Speaker 2: hiking up hills and not getting any sleep for four

962
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: days in the wilderness. You know that different things can

963
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,720
Speaker 2: come in to play to whether or not we're extremely active.

964
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's that's where I've always you know, maybe

965
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 1: it's just easier to do it, but you know, it

966
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: used to be a white paper play, you know, the

967
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: old school. They were maybe eight inches and and I

968
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: kind of as if you're in there, especially when I

969
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: started to stretch out distances, like all right, you know,

970
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: eighty one hundred, you know, just I would shoot those,

971
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: not necessarily hunt those, but like, all right, we're keeping

972
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: good enough accuracy, you know, if we needed a follow

973
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 1: up shot you know there, But and then I tightened

974
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: it up to that six inch and it just it's

975
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: the heck's on my target. But I've always just been

976
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: comfortable if I can hit that, like I'm doing well enough,

977
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: like I could realistically take a shot from from that distance,

978
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: and it's just one It's helped me from stand away

979
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: from target panic being too competitive, like overthinking all of this,

980
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: but in reality, something I would like to take hunting accuracy,

981
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 1: which are not directly related but maybe maybe more connected

982
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: than we'd like to believe. And you mentioned this earlier

983
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 1: is my ability to like know where the new ten

984
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: x is on the animal based on the angle, the

985
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: elevation difference, how I'm what vitals I'm going to hit

986
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: if the erro goes in there and comes out a

987
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 1: different spot is even more important than maybe the accuracy

988
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: at times like I don't care if you can hit

989
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: a one in circle at forty yards, if you don't

990
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: know where to put the arrow at this angle, I'll

991
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: take my skill set over your archery skill set any day, which,

992
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: like I said, they're not directly related, but accuracy, you

993
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: know what the bow versus like me almost not having

994
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: to think about it at times where this angle or

995
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: this arrow in the angle needs to go in is

996
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 1: maybe more important for for a hunting you know archer.

997
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean you're you're right. I mean

998
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 2: on shot placement, in understanding the anatomy of the animal

999
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 2: that you're shooting, you know, and and all those different

1000
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 2: angles they're and you know there again, there's there's so

1001
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: many factors that come in to play that you know,

1002
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 2: and none of it is guaranteed. I mean, you know,

1003
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 2: it's like arrows will take different different directions. Some there

1004
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 2: are some things that can help minimize, you know, the

1005
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: exit side of an arrow I think is FOC. I

1006
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 2: think FOC does help pull an arrow into a target

1007
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 2: inshouad of getting shoved into the target. Yeah, And so

1008
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 2: I think that exit side can get better with more

1009
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 2: FOC penetrations. A whole other thing, I I that is

1010
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 2: one I guess going back into equipment, that was one

1011
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 2: thing we didn't touch on. I wouldn't I wouldn't skimp

1012
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: on broadheads. And when I need skimp on broad heads

1013
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: means buying something off of Amazon or you know, if

1014
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 2: you're paying you know, fifteen nineteen dollars or something for

1015
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 2: three or six broad heads.

1016
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just that's not I mean just knowing what

1017
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: we know, you know for manufacturing, Like, there's no way

1018
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: those are heat treated, right, There's no way they were

1019
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: sharpened right, because you just can't do it for that price.

1020
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: Wait, consistency, straight, consistency, blade consistent, and see all those

1021
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 2: different things that make every one of them, you know good.

1022
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: So yeah, not to not to diverge, we're getting ready

1023
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: to close it up, but on the broadhead, like in

1024
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: your opinion, you know, whitetail hunting like is there in

1025
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: all answers as well, So I'm not putting you on

1026
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: an island like you get a lot of the solid

1027
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: non mechanicals versus mechanicals. Oh mechanicals showmb used no white

1028
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: tail elk you should stay. You know, caught in contact

1029
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: is better for penetration or keeping the air on the

1030
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 1: anglet wants to go versus an expandable could deflect. Like

1031
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: in your opinion, from what you've seen, you know you've

1032
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: shot a lot of elk shot a lot of deer.

1033
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,399
Speaker 1: Is there any truth any of that or is it?

1034
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: Are you just of the nature? Just shoot what you

1035
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: shoot best, like in a high quality.

1036
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got to be accurate that it's got to

1037
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 2: be consistent number number one thing, uh sharp, Then you

1038
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 2: kind of go into the failure rates, I guess of

1039
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: of things. But you also look at wound channels. So

1040
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 2: and you've killed enough animals too, and you've seen it.

1041
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 2: Sometimes they bleed, sometimes they don't, and it's not a

1042
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 2: broadhead issue. I don't believe it's a broadhead issue when

1043
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 2: an animal doesn't bleed very good. I don't. I don't

1044
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 2: blame abroad. It's just it is what it is. You

1045
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 2: shoot enough of them and you'll see I've shot some

1046
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 2: really bad shots and it's just like blood's everywhere, and

1047
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: I've shot them with the same type of broadhead in

1048
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 2: the better spot and they didn't bleed very good. So

1049
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: I don't judge anything off that. And I'm I like expandables,

1050
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 2: but I don't like expandables, you know. So so if

1051
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 2: I was shooting white tails one hundred percent, no matter what,

1052
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 2: I'd probably shoot it. I'd shoot expandable just it's the

1053
00:55:56,080 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 2: biggest womb channel. And I think there's somebody that was

1054
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 2: did a study that you know, lost animals off of

1055
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 2: fixed heads versus expandables, and MCA or standard fixed heads

1056
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 2: lost more animals than expandables. So I think marginal shots,

1057
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 2: marginal shots can can be improved with a bigger cut,

1058
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: you know.

1059
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I've always thought that overanalyzed. Like you know,

1060
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,879
Speaker 1: I'm shooting iron wheels, which has you know, a cut

1061
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: on contact main blade and then small bleeder blades. But

1062
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: like I overanalyzed, like at times, just if that arrow

1063
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 1: at this certain instance was turned ninety degrees at that

1064
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 1: point versus exactly that could be the difference on clipping

1065
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 1: a heart or missing or what I'm even more concerned

1066
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: about is on like a quartering animal. Well, I love

1067
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: caught on contact, but if my blade is perfectly aligned

1068
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: with like a rib bone, like big blades, versus if

1069
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: it was turned ninety degrees and was going to like

1070
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 1: point through them and get get you know, get going,

1071
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:58,399
Speaker 1: like some of.

1072
00:56:58,360 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 3: That's what concerns me.

1073
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 1: And I haven't had an issue yet, but the engineer

1074
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 1: in me is over analyzing that stuff versus well, maybe

1075
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: like an old muzzy tip would already be going in

1076
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: a direction.

1077
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 2: The beautiful thing with a fixed head is if you

1078
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 2: don't go through, you're still cutting, ripping, tearing, and causing

1079
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 2: trauma inside that animal with maybe even more of expandable broadheads.

1080
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,479
Speaker 2: When they stop moving forward, the blades close back up.

1081
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: If they don't go all the way through, and now

1082
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 2: you're you're you're really not causing any more damage. You've

1083
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 2: cut what you cut. And you can say the same

1084
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 2: thing with shooting through an animal. You've cut what you cut.

1085
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 2: If that person just did miss the artery, I mean

1086
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: that you've cut what you cut. So every one of

1087
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 2: them is different. I mean there's there's not a perfect situation.

1088
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 2: But for me, if I'm shooting an lope, white tails,

1089
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 2: mule deer, yeah I'd shoot an expandable heartbeat for me

1090
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 2: because I'm like you, I call elk. A lot of

1091
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 2: my elk or coming toward me and so they're either

1092
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 2: a hard hard at me or I'm shooting them right

1093
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 2: up through the front. But like I say, that's typically

1094
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen twenty yard shot type of thing, and

1095
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 2: I don't want a big cut trying to get through neck,

1096
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 2: hide and hair I want to cut on contact head

1097
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 2: that penetrates.

1098
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, No, I'm in agreement on all of that. Well,

1099
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 3: give us a quick rundown, you know.

1100
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: I you came out before my white tail hunt brought

1101
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: me that new dart and sequel thirty five st squared?

1102
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 3: Did I get that all right?

1103
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 2: Yep?

1104
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 3: Which was? Which was? Which I like?

1105
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: And the few features we've alluded to it a little

1106
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: bit like I've tried to become a student of the game,

1107
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: but still don't wrench on my own bow. There were

1108
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: some things that happened, you know, on this boat. Corey

1109
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: can speak to him better than me. But we have

1110
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: some tunable limp pockets, and for timing, we had the

1111
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: ability to twist cables without going into the boat press,

1112
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: which you know. We we got everything set up with

1113
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: with field points found out.

1114
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 3: My broad if you remember, was my broad head was

1115
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 3: hitting to the left? Correct?

1116
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: Yes, I think, yeah, So we had broadheads were dialed

1117
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 1: or no field points were dialed. Broadheads were shooting two

1118
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: or three inches to the left. After we got everything

1119
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: set up, and rather than put it back in the

1120
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: press or make an adjust to the site or do

1121
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: anything else, we were literally got an Alan wrench out.

1122
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: I think it was one twist on on you know,

1123
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: the adjustable limp pocket, and we brought the arrows together

1124
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 1: and we're done. Which for me not having to run

1125
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 1: back to a bow shop or not have to like

1126
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 1: make little micro adjust to my rest and hope that

1127
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 1: I don't screw this up completely. It was awesome getting

1128
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 1: ready for a hunt, you know, to be able to

1129
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 1: do that. And that was the problem I used to

1130
00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: run run into all the time before you know, I

1131
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: run down Corey. It something my bow up. And then

1132
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: like everybody is screwed the broadheads on ten days before season,

1133
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: You're like, uh no, like you have to redo all

1134
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: of this. And so I'll let Corey speak to some

1135
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 1: of this technology and and uh you know some of

1136
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: the things that dart and are doing. And then kind

1137
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: of you know, some of these advance advancements that maybe

1138
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 1: aren't all going into efficiency but you know, the efficiency

1139
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: of the bow, but and the fuel of the bow,

1140
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: but really going into the tunability of the bow seems

1141
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: to be the biggest advancements you know coming out.

1142
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the tunability on the new bow and stuff.

1143
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 2: You know, when we tune a bow or you tune

1144
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 2: a bow at the shop. Definitely, shooting through paper is

1145
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 2: a snapshot of it, but it's not the telltale sign.

1146
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 2: Especially when we start putting veins in the front with

1147
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 2: a broadhead, so things can show up a little bit

1148
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 2: more with with that. And so having the ability to

1149
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 2: tweak some stuff at the range instead of having to

1150
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 2: drive back to a shop and put a bow in

1151
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 2: a press and or moving the rest like you say, uh,

1152
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 2: it's it's nice features. So we came out with a

1153
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 2: new tiny system that is in our yokes and it's

1154
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 2: a it's a turn buckle, so it just it just turns.

1155
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: It just puts or takes out twist of the cable

1156
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 2: so it doesn't doesn't get any longer or shorter. So

1157
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 2: it's not on a thread system, so we're not pulling

1158
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 2: something different. We're actually just putting the twist and we

1159
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 2: can micro do that on the timing. So that's really cool.

1160
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 2: And and so then when we go into the what

1161
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 2: everybody's calling the limb pocket, it's not necessarily like tuning

1162
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 2: the limb pocket on on what we're doing. Other companies

1163
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 2: will actually move a pocket. What we're doing is keeping

1164
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 2: the pocket square and in this position, but we're actually

1165
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:49,919
Speaker 2: changing deflection numbers of a of a limb. So we've

1166
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 2: got a little plug that we can put in the

1167
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 2: left or the right limb and basically add right around

1168
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 2: anywhere from you know, a half a pound to to

1169
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 2: two and a half pounds to that limb, which makes

1170
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 2: that limb stronger the other limb slightly weaker, and we

1171
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 2: can flip flop that. So the cool thing on that

1172
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 2: is that it keeps the limb pocket square and then

1173
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 2: on the cam side of it, we're actually not moving

1174
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 2: the cam left and right, because if you move the

1175
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 2: cam left and right, then you're technically not shoving the

1176
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 2: back of the arrow from the back of the arrow again,

1177
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 2: so we keep everything square into the bow and just

1178
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 2: do it off of limb deflections, which is pretty pretty slick.

1179
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was slick.

1180
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: And then I don't know, I was shooting here and

1181
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: showed up in Kansas, so I give Corey a quick

1182
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: call and once again over the phone, you know, just

1183
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: making sure it's going in the right direction. I could

1184
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: have just twisted and checked, but you know, I was

1185
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: able to make in another adjustment. Why we were in

1186
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: Kansas and kind of you know, quote unquote retune the

1187
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: bow versus if I couldn't have, you know, had the

1188
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: tools or the ability to fix some of this stuff

1189
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 1: on the fly, I wouldn't have been very confident as

1190
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,439
Speaker 1: I was sitting in a tree, but you know, made

1191
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: a few adjustments, shot back out to forty yards and

1192
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: everything was flying perfect. So you know, once again, just

1193
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: a testament to to making stuff easy.

1194
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 3: For a dummy like me that wouldn't have been able

1195
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 3: to fix that on my own.

1196
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 2: So how big a deer did you shoot?

1197
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 3: I haven't scored it yet. He's a Uh.

1198
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: When I'm in Kansas, we call him ten pointers around here.

1199
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: I think they'd be called like a five by five

1200
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: or four point with I guards. So I killed a

1201
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 1: good ten pointer, probably that mid fifties five ish. Yes, Yeah,

1202
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 1: it's uh, we're we're spoiled back there, but uh, you know,

1203
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 1: killed killed him on the very first sit an hour

1204
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 1: into it, and then uh went on dough patrol after that,

1205
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: and then decided I was tired of cutting up dose.

1206
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 1: So then I don't if Randy listen this, he's gonna

1207
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: be mad. But I was like trying to shoo him

1208
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 1: away later on in the week, like just no, not really.

1209
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 1: You know, there's lots of chores to do on a

1210
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: on a big form like that, so we tried to

1211
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 1: help around in Montana.

1212
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 2: We also have hunter Hunters for the hungry. So yeah,

1213
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 2: but yeah, I shot four dos and like you say,

1214
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 2: it's a lot of work after it's fun and all

1215
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 2: of a sudden you're like, oh, man, I got a

1216
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of work ahead of me.

1217
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it was it was good. Any other thing,

1218
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: anything else you new from Black You anything else you

1219
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: want to talk about or yeah.

1220
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 2: So we should be I don't know when this is

1221
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 2: going to launch, but I think right around December tenth,

1222
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 2: actually probably tomorrow. We should be getting in our all

1223
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 2: our new graphics. We've got new veins that we're putting

1224
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 2: on the arrows for freck Factory fletch. That will be

1225
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 2: a two point five fusion X vein to have a

1226
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 2: two inch vein, and we're spine indexing all the arrows,

1227
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 2: the shafts all we'll have a laser index for the

1228
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 2: stiff side of the arrow. New graphics, and then just

1229
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 2: the course. You know, the one thing that Black Eagles

1230
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 2: is known for is the super sortied where our spine

1231
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 2: consistency is so consistent across the board on the arrows.

1232
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, other than that, it's pretty much the same,

1233
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 2: same good stuff, and it's going to be.

1234
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 3: A good year. No, I really appreciate you know.

1235
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 1: It's always good to catch up, even though now I

1236
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 1: get to see it for half a day while we're

1237
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: rushing to set a bow up, But always good to

1238
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 1: catch up with you. And I just always liked your

1239
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: perspective on you know, on on shooting and becoming better

1240
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 1: and maybe you know, what the internet tells us we

1241
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 1: should be doing versus what the reality. You know, we

1242
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: should just be practicing more or working on certain things

1243
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: and not just buying the newest and latest and greatest,

1244
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 1: and it's not going to make you become a better shoot.

1245
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, practice with a purpose, you know, figure out what

1246
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 2: you're going to practice today. Why that's your grip angle,

1247
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 2: your anchor point? Is it my aiming? Do practice aiming drills? Do?

1248
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 2: You know? The biggest key? I think The other thing

1249
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 2: that I get frustrated with is watching people who are

1250
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 2: struggling with target panic and everybody tells them to buy

1251
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 2: a back tension release. Back tension is a form of

1252
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 2: a shot. It doesn't matter if you do it with

1253
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 2: your bogger finger or you turn your hand upside down,

1254
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 2: but you're still using your back to keep strong into

1255
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 2: the shot and activate the trigger, whether not be an

1256
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 2: index trigger like I say, or a button. But these

1257
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 2: guys will go out and buy an expensive button and

1258
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 2: then not learn how to properly shoot it, and their

1259
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 2: their problems of punching the trigger is still there. They

1260
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 2: just turned their hand upside down and they're three hundred

1261
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 2: dollars more in debt. Yeap, So if you're gonna buy

1262
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 2: a good release, find somebody to help you learn how

1263
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 2: to shoot that release properly.

1264
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 3: I like it. I like it.

1265
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: Well we'll end on that. Thanks for coming along, Corey.

1266
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 1: Enjoy your your snowy winter in uh Montana, and I'll

1267
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 1: enjoy our wet winter here in Washington.

1268
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 2: Hey, id you saw that big buck that walked by

1269
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 2: a way I did.

1270
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 3: That's not That's not a bad site. I've got a couple.

1271
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: Hey, I got a couple of those in my yard

1272
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: eating under the apple trees. So it's almost the same.

1273
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, almost.

1274
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 3: All right, take care of buddy. Wet's see you think?

1275
01:06:54,040 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 3: But can fo