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Speaker 1: You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and

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Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast

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Speaker 1: are solely those of the individuals participating in the show

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Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.

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Speaker 1: This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable

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Speaker 1: for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Rasha Paccuerero

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Speaker 2: and I'm Eyvet Gentilay. And today we're really diving into

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Speaker 2: a landmark murder case that surprisingly few people have heard about.

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Speaker 2: It's the case of Vincent Chin. Yeah, that's right, Evett.

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Speaker 2: Just a couple of years ago, you may recall that

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Speaker 2: there was a surge of anti Asian violence, including the

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Speaker 2: murder of multiple people at three different Atlanta, Georgia spas

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Speaker 2: that sparked outrage, of course, and a revive of an

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Speaker 2: Asian civil rights movement. But the roots of that movement

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Speaker 2: were laid with this very case, the case of Vincent Chin,

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Speaker 2: all the way back in nineteen eighty two. And on

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Speaker 2: today's show, we'll have a guest who will talk with

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Speaker 2: us about what made this case so groundbreaking. But first,

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Speaker 2: our producer Trevor is going to take us through today's case.

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Speaker 2: The twenty seven year old was beaten to death with

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Speaker 2: a baseball bat by two men who were fined three

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars and received no jail time.

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Speaker 3: These two killers had received probation for killing a Chinese man.

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Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe that this had happened.

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Speaker 3: After his terribly tragic murder, What ended up happening was

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Speaker 3: people felt like we need to become more politically important

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Speaker 3: and powerful, and that has occurred. And I think that

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Speaker 3: that's a beautiful legacy of a very tragic event.

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Speaker 1: Vincent Chin was a twenty seven year old Chinese American

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Speaker 1: man who was killed in a racially motivated attack in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. In June of that year, Vincent was

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Speaker 1: planning to get married. On the night of June nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: Vincent Chin and his friends were out celebrating for Vincent's

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Speaker 1: bachelor party in Detroit, Michigan. While at a local strip club,

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Speaker 1: they had an altercation with a man named Ronald Ebens.

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Speaker 1: Ebens was a forty two year old white man who

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Speaker 1: had worked at Chrysler Automotive for years. At the time, Ford,

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Speaker 1: GM and Chrysler all had headquarters in Detroit and were

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Speaker 1: in rapid decline. This was due to competition from carmakers

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Speaker 1: in Japan, Korea, and Germany, and during this time, scores

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Speaker 1: of Detroit autoworkers were being laid off, including Evans's nephew,

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Speaker 1: Michael Knits, and like many they blamed their layoffs on

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Speaker 1: competition from Asian countries. Ebans and Knits happened to be

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Speaker 1: at the same nightclub as Vincent Chinn that night. They

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Speaker 1: reportedly shouted expletives at him and persistently insulted him on

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Speaker 1: the basis of his heritage. The argument escalated and Vincent

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Speaker 1: and his friends eventually left the club, but Ebens followed

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Speaker 1: him to a McDonald's, where he and Knits attacked and

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Speaker 1: beat him to death. Ronald Ebens and Michael Knits were

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Speaker 1: charged with second degree murder and Evans was fired the

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Speaker 1: following year, and then, in a devastating blow to the

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Speaker 1: Asian American community, the Detroit ACLU and National Lawyer's Guild

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Speaker 1: came out saying that the killing of Vincent Chen did

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Speaker 1: not violate his civil rights, and disappointingly, government officials and

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Speaker 1: politicians agreed and in March of the next year, Knits

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Speaker 1: and Ebens successfully entered a plea bargain that brought charges

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Speaker 1: against them down to manslaughter. They received no jail time

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Speaker 1: and only three years probation, a three thousand dollars fine,

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Speaker 1: and seven hundred and eighty dollars in court fees. This

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Speaker 1: event sparked the formation of a new civil rights group.

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Speaker 1: They were called American Citizens for Justice or ACJ, and

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Speaker 1: they held a protest in May of that year, claiming

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Speaker 1: that Judge Charles Kaufman's decision was tantamount to giving out

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Speaker 1: quote a license to kill for three thousand dollars, provided

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Speaker 1: you have a steady job or are a student, and

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Speaker 1: the victim is Chinese end quote. Michael Nitz was acquitted

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Speaker 1: on both charges, but Ronald Ebens was found guilty of

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Speaker 1: one count and sentenced to twenty five years in prison,

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Speaker 1: but ebens conviction was overturned. Instead, Ronald Ebens was ordered

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Speaker 1: to pay Chin's family one point five million dollars at

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Speaker 1: a rate of two hundred dollars a month for two years,

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Speaker 1: but he never did and the family of Vincent Chen

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Speaker 1: has to this day never seen a dime. And so

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Speaker 1: who was Vincent Chen? And how does this story reflect

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Speaker 1: the ever present issue of anti Asian racism and violence

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Speaker 1: in America.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back. Vincent Chin is just one example of the

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Speaker 2: many Asian Americans who have faced racism and violence in

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Speaker 2: this country. The issue of anti Asian hate is one

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Speaker 2: that goes back hundreds of years and sadly still persists today.

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Speaker 2: Our guest today is one of the leading scholars and

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Speaker 2: voices speaking out against anti Asian hate and bias. Doctor

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Speaker 2: Locke Sue joins us. She's a cultural anthropologist and professor

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Speaker 2: of Ethnic studies at UC Berkeley. Doctor Sue, welcome to

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Speaker 2: Facing Evil.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here

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Speaker 4: and talk a little bit more about the issues of

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Speaker 4: anti Asian hate and violence.

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Speaker 5: Yes, thank you. We're so happy you're here because it's

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Speaker 5: a very very important topic and we want to get

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Speaker 5: right into it.

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Speaker 2: So, doctor Sue, can you tell us about the history

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Speaker 2: of this issue. When and how did anti Asian hate

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Speaker 2: first start to rear its head in America and how

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Speaker 2: severe has it been historically?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, in the history of Asian Americans in

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Speaker 4: the US, anti Asian hate has been such a persistent

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Speaker 4: aspect of life, and I think you know, you see

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Speaker 4: these episodes emerging as early as the eighteen seventies. As

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Speaker 4: soon as the first Chinese immigrants arrived to the United States,

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Speaker 4: there were mass riots, over one hundred and fifty of

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Speaker 4: them across the country. And you're talking about you know,

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Speaker 4: communities whose homes were burnt down, who were forced to

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Speaker 4: leave their sites, and some had to go underground and

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Speaker 4: created these underground tunnels where they couldn't walk outside into

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Speaker 4: streets but actually had to you know, go underground quite

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Speaker 4: literally to move from place to place. And so, you know,

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Speaker 4: even at that moment in the eighteen seventies, you see

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Speaker 4: this extreme sort of violence against the Chinese workers that

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Speaker 4: was also followed, you know, by other attacks against South

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Speaker 4: Asian American immigrants. There were you know, Filipino workers that

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Speaker 4: were being attacked, you know, in the nineteen thirties, and

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Speaker 4: you know, of course, you have the moment of the

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Speaker 4: nineteen forties with the massive incarceration of Japanese Americans. That

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Speaker 4: didn't end, you know, in mid century, but we saw spikes,

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Speaker 4: you know, with the Vincent Chinn incident in the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 4: and of course again he is one of the many

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Speaker 4: Asian Americans that were attacked and violently attacked in his case.

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Speaker 4: You know, it was such a egregious situation that the

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Speaker 4: community really mobilized against it. But we see this emerging again,

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Speaker 4: you know, with anti Muslim, anti Arab American profiling, you

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Speaker 4: know during nine to eleven and the attacks against you know,

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Speaker 4: women wearing hey jobs because of their culturally signifier, you

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Speaker 4: know that they bear and you know, again this is

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Speaker 4: this is just ongoing even to at present. You have

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Speaker 4: the uptick you know of anti Asian violence because of

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Speaker 4: the COVID event and the sparking of anti Asian racism,

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Speaker 4: you know during this moment, you know, by many members

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Speaker 4: in our society. And so you see over ten thousand

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Speaker 4: attacks have been recorded, and this is an underestimate in fact,

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Speaker 4: you know that these are self recording documentation of people's

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Speaker 4: experiences alongside the racial profiling of Chinese American Asian American scientists,

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Speaker 4: you know, who are targeted by the FBI and you

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Speaker 4: know whose lives are turned upside down with false accusations.

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Speaker 4: So these are the many different events across time, and

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Speaker 4: then the various sorts of activities that have been targeting

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Speaker 4: Asian Americans, you know, really kind of arising from the

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Speaker 4: anti Asian hate and anti Asian racism that is in

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Speaker 4: our country.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Sue, can you tell us what brought you to

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Speaker 2: the topic of anti Asian hate.

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Speaker 4: I think most recently just seeing on media and hearing

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Speaker 4: all the stories of the attacks, especially against the elderly

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Speaker 4: in our population, the women of our population. I myself

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Speaker 4: have a mother who is eighty two years old, and

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Speaker 4: I fear for her life. She lives in San Francisco,

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Speaker 4: and San Francisco and Oakland are two in New York

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Speaker 4: are three cities that have the highest rates of attacks.

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Speaker 4: And I have two children of my own, I have sisters,

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Speaker 4: and I am scared of their safety, for their safety

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Speaker 4: and you know they're walking around trying to go get

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Speaker 4: groceries right taking the bus. That's a real concern. And those,

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Speaker 4: I think, those particular stories that I hear on the

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Speaker 4: news really struck home and really made me think about

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Speaker 4: my own family myself, and you know, the kinds of

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Speaker 4: dangers that they experience on an everyday basis, walking around

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Speaker 4: minding their own business, doing their own things, And that

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Speaker 4: is what was most heartbreaking for me, and it made

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Speaker 4: me think about the state of our country. You know,

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Speaker 4: certain people are not able to walk around feeling a

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Speaker 4: basic sense of safety. That they're always looking over their

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Speaker 4: shoulders and you know, thinking about am I next? You know,

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Speaker 4: is there someone behind me? And that's frightening. And I

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Speaker 4: think that has caused tremendous anxiety, you know, within our community,

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Speaker 4: and tremendous stress mental health issues are emerging.

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Speaker 5: Can you tell us how capitalism and different types of

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Speaker 5: economic factors lend themselves to racism and violence. I mean,

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Speaker 5: it really feels like in many ways, Vincent's case is

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Speaker 5: wrapped up in the failings of capitalism.

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Speaker 4: I think is absolutely connected. We see many of these

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Speaker 4: spikes and violence created by assumptions of jobs taking away

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Speaker 4: from people. Economies are down usually and where there is

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Speaker 4: a lot of antagonism between countries and nations. In the

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Speaker 4: case of Vincent Chen, he is Chinese American. But in

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Speaker 4: the period of the nineteen eighties, it was really around

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Speaker 4: the car industry, particularly of Japan's rise in the car

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Speaker 4: manufacturing industry, that in many ways created a situation where

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Speaker 4: there were such strong sentiments around faulting the Japanese as

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Speaker 4: being the culprit of taking away jobs from Americans. And actually,

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Speaker 4: you know, he is an American citizen. You know, Chinese,

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Speaker 4: he is Chinese American and is a citizen of the

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Speaker 4: United States. And this is where I think the racial

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Speaker 4: component really plays a role here that you know, just

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Speaker 4: because he is Chinese or Asian appearing presenting, he is

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Speaker 4: assumed to be a foreigner. And I think that there

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Speaker 4: is this idea of Asian Americans as foreigners that are

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Speaker 4: so steeped in our society that we don't consider them

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Speaker 4: as full citizens, as first class citizens in the United States,

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Speaker 4: but we immediately associate them with a foreign country. And therefore,

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Speaker 4: whenever there are political conflict or tensions going on, that

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Speaker 4: Asians are immediately associated with those countries, even though they

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Speaker 4: are often American born, American citizens, et cetera. And that

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Speaker 4: is really what we see happening here. That the economy

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Speaker 4: has a tremendous effect and because of the racialization of

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Speaker 4: Chinese and Asian Americans as foreigners, that it becomes a

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Speaker 4: real issue. I think it's important to note that our

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Speaker 4: immigration policies have always been set up to encourage a

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Speaker 4: certain kind of migration from certain places for certain reasons,

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Speaker 4: and this is absolutely true for Asian Americans. And this

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Speaker 4: is where the racial capitalism comes in when you think

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Speaker 4: of immigration expanding in order to increase a certain kind

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Speaker 4: of workforce. And so if you track this over time,

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Speaker 4: we see this happening, you know, with the railroad workers

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Speaker 4: that came to work as labor. And then you have

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Speaker 4: you know, even today you have the HB one visas,

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Speaker 4: and you know, the critical point was in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 4: five when they stopped the quota system and really changed

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Speaker 4: the immigration criteria that attracted people with education and skilled labor.

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Speaker 4: So you had this opening where then a group of

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Speaker 4: immigrants coming from everywhere, but especially Asia, who are highly

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Speaker 4: educated and who have skills to offer to the US.

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Speaker 4: And so you know, these are the ways in which

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Speaker 4: the immigration policies really kind of help to funnel certain

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Speaker 4: kinds of workers into the United States. And it's it's

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Speaker 4: very clear that at certain moments, you know why Asian

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Speaker 4: immigrants were recruited, you know, were allowed in through immigration,

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Speaker 4: such as the farm workers you know of the past,

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Speaker 4: and the railroad workers, the farm workers of the past,

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Speaker 4: and then now the tech workers you know of the present.

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Speaker 4: And this is how you see the convergence, you know,

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Speaker 4: of the economic imperatives of the country really kind of

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Speaker 4: moving forward with the support of immigration, and that's how

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Speaker 4: you structure sort of the racial capitalism actually is constructed

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Speaker 4: in a US, and that's how it's still unfolding.

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Speaker 2: I want to jump forward a little bit, doctor Seue,

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Speaker 2: So in the twenty first century, like you know, many

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Speaker 2: Americans today maybe think that, you know, anti Asian hate

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Speaker 2: or racism against Asian Americans is a thing of the past.

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Speaker 2: But as we all know, you know, it's reared its

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Speaker 2: ugly head lately, and especially in the last few years

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Speaker 2: when we saw the horrific SPA shootings that happened in Atlanta, Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that was a wake up call for

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Speaker 2: our country to start recognizing that racism is alive for

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Speaker 2: anti Asian Americans, Like, it's so heartbreaking.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think for a while, and I think it's

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Speaker 4: still persistent today in American minds American psyches, that the

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Speaker 4: notion of Asian Americans as having achieved, you know, success,

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Speaker 4: the model minority stereotype is really at the forefront. It's

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Speaker 4: reinforced you know, in popular media, in news articles and

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Speaker 4: et cetera. But I think that that perception, it really

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Speaker 4: is a very strong stereotype and it doesn't represent the

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Speaker 4: realities of the diverse population of Asian Americans. You're talking

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Speaker 4: about twenty three million Asian Americans, and as a group,

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Speaker 4: they are the group with the widest income disparity of

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Speaker 4: any racial group in the United States, which means that, yes,

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Speaker 4: there are people doing really well economically among this group,

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Speaker 4: but there are people who are doing incredibly poorly, you know.

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Speaker 4: And you see this in education achievements, believe it or not,

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Speaker 4: but income levels, health equity. So this is where I

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Speaker 4: think the stereotype hides, you know, this large spectrum and

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Speaker 4: these realities you know, of people living sometimes you know,

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Speaker 4: barely above means, you know, on welfare, in housing projects,

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Speaker 4: and we don't see that, and once we get that

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Speaker 4: in our head, we seem to project it, you know,

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Speaker 4: onto all Asian Americans, and that is just not true.

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Speaker 4: And I think that with that, you know, being at

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Speaker 4: the forefront of people's minds, they don't think of Asian

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Speaker 4: Americans as experiencing any kind of structural racism, you know,

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Speaker 4: or cultural racism. And you know, there's so many studies

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Speaker 4: out there that show that Asian Americans hit a glass

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Speaker 4: ceiling or a bamboo ceiling, even in the professional life

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Speaker 4: that in fact, you know, there are many people who

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Speaker 4: are stuck, you know, in lower management that are not

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Speaker 4: able to rise on top. So across the whole spectrum,

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Speaker 4: you know, of the poor and even of the professional class,

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of discrimination that needs to be addressed.

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Speaker 4: It hasn't been because we haven't had that conversation. We

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Speaker 4: haven't had the opportunity to really check in and say,

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Speaker 4: you know, these things are really happening. Here are the

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Speaker 4: information to data that we've collected, and here are the experiences.

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Speaker 5: Wow, absolusolutely absolutely, doctor. So do you do you believe that,

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Speaker 5: you know, anti asient hate can be dissolved in America?

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Speaker 5: I mean, you just spoke on capitalism and how it's

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Speaker 5: dominating the core structure you know of this country. But

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Speaker 5: I guess what I want to say is is there

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Speaker 5: any way that you know, we can break this toxic cycle?

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Speaker 5: What can we do? What can we all do as

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Speaker 5: a society?

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Speaker 4: I certainly hope. So, you know, I see a lot

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Speaker 4: of issues that we need to address in the country.

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Speaker 4: On the education level, our students are not taught this history,

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Speaker 4: along with many other groups' histories, indigenous peoples, African Americans,

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Speaker 4: LATINX populations. That's a key beginning in terms of transforming

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Speaker 4: that knowledge base of who belongs in the United States,

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Speaker 4: who are Americans, you know, broadly speaking, and you know,

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Speaker 4: what have they contributed, you know, to our country to

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Speaker 4: make it the you know, better and much more livable

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Speaker 4: and in fact much more just because of their being here.

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Speaker 4: There is on the level of cultural representations, you know,

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Speaker 4: how we are represented, whether we are represented you know,

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Speaker 4: in media, the kinds of skewed images that we might

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Speaker 4: have of certain populations that produce and continue and sustain

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Speaker 4: the discrimination against them, the racism against them. Those are

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Speaker 4: the things that we can correct, you know. And representation

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Speaker 4: in the workspace, you know, I think that that's a

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Speaker 4: key area where we do need leadership to represent the

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Speaker 4: people of this country. The leadership to represent you know,

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Speaker 4: who we are as a group as a country. You know,

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Speaker 4: I think that's that's critical to be in the boardroom

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Speaker 4: to make decisions that matter to our communities. Those aspects

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Speaker 4: are really really critical to achieving a more equitable, socially

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Speaker 4: just society and representative you know, of who we are

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Speaker 4: as a society. There are so many, so many arenas,

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Speaker 4: you know, I think we need to make sure that

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Speaker 4: the laws align with our goals and ideals, and I

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Speaker 4: think sort of we're chipping away slowly, you know. I

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Speaker 4: think that we need to just work at small fronts,

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Speaker 4: you know, in our daily lives as well as these

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Speaker 4: larger societal changes, and only through that can we hope

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Speaker 4: for true transformation in our country.

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Speaker 2: That's absolutely beautiful, doctor Sue, like you're speaking to our

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Speaker 2: hearts right now, because representation truly matters. And just like

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Speaker 2: you have said, like small ways and big ways, right,

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Speaker 2: thank you for that. I think we all can help

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Speaker 2: to break that cycle. I would like to ask as well,

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Speaker 2: you know, kind of piggybacking on Vet's last question. Everything

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Speaker 2: you so eloquently answered. So, I know you've told us

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Speaker 2: the small ways of how to break the toxic cycle.

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Speaker 2: But in reference to Vincent Chin right, his killers sadly

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Speaker 2: never saw any jail time. There was no justice for

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Speaker 2: Vincent's family. I mean they were supposed to. The killers

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Speaker 2: were supposed to pay a substantial amount of money to

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Speaker 2: Vincent's family, and no one was held accountable. They didn't

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Speaker 2: pay them a dime. How do we change that? How

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Speaker 2: do we make people more accountable? Especially in a case

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 4: I think that particular case involves us to rethink the

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Speaker 4: justice system. I think the law on anti hate laws

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Speaker 4: are really critical, but I think that's a starting point.

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Speaker 4: We need to enforce it, we need to recognize it.

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Speaker 4: I think that is the second point that we need

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Speaker 4: to absolutely work on as a social justice system. That

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Speaker 4: requires a certain knowledge around anti racism and around how

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Speaker 4: it is actually practiced, you know, how it is actually displayed,

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Speaker 4: and to have stricter laws around that and have a

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Speaker 4: social system that recognize that this is an anti hate

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Speaker 4: crime and be able to enforce it. It was murder, yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 4: I think that there is no way around it. There's

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Speaker 4: so many cases you know that is clear cut, and

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Speaker 4: yet we're not able to find justice, you know in

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Speaker 4: those occasions, Vincent Chin, I mean it was it was

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Speaker 4: so clear that it was racially motivated, that it was

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Speaker 4: a violent, unjustified attack that put him in a coma

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Speaker 4: and then killed him four days later. And you know,

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Speaker 4: with two people, one holding him down and the other

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Speaker 4: beating him with a baseball bat to a point where

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Speaker 4: he can never wake up. That is a serious, serious

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Speaker 4: crime and a racially motivated crime. Absolutely, and you know,

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Speaker 4: it accompanied racial slurs, It accompanied with comments around him

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Speaker 4: being Japanese, right again, a mis reckon and even that,

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Speaker 4: you know, I think that there's so much going on there.

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Speaker 4: Our system failed us, and we need to make sure

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Speaker 4: that that does not happen again for Asian Americans, for

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Speaker 4: anyone in this country, you know, for all populations, and

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Speaker 4: that is a crucial point that we need to get

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Speaker 4: across as a society.

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Speaker 5: For our listeners. You know, we know that there are

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Speaker 5: small ways to improve the issue, you know, of Asian hate.

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Speaker 5: There are maybe changes that we can unintentionally perpetuate Asian stereotypes,

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Speaker 5: right that need to be eliminated. What can we do,

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Speaker 5: in your opinion, in big and small ways to change this?

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Speaker 4: I think that's a great question for your listeners. I

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Speaker 4: think as individuals we can do a lot in terms

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Speaker 4: of our own self education. There are so many books

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Speaker 4: out there that we can pick up. And it is

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Speaker 4: absolutely true we don't have enough dialogue with one another.

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Speaker 4: We don't have enough understanding of our histories, of our

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Speaker 4: current experiences. And we can do that beginning with conversations

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Speaker 4: reaching out, you know, to others. If you see someone

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Speaker 4: you know, go ahead and have a conversation, break the ice,

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Speaker 4: and from there you build on smaller to larger conversations

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Speaker 4: to bigger item questions. But also you know, take time

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Speaker 4: to learn on our own right about our different histories,

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Speaker 4: because that is crucial, you know, I think to build empathy,

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Speaker 4: as you mentioned, we need to understand how we come together,

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Speaker 4: you know, as a fabric of woven together in this society,

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Speaker 4: as a mosaic, you know, and we are you know,

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Speaker 4: we are mosaic, you know, with many different strands of

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Speaker 4: history coming into this country, and we need to understand

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Speaker 4: how we have been in some ways not speaking to

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Speaker 4: each other, not learning this acknowledging that is the first

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Speaker 4: step and then beginning the process you know, of re

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Speaker 4: education and reaching out, you know, across to one another

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Speaker 4: to make those human connections. And I think you'd be

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Speaker 4: surprised at making those human connections, whether it is you know,

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Speaker 4: at the school, you know, when you pick up your children,

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Speaker 4: or at the workplace, or when you interact with someone

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Speaker 4: at a restaurant or a cafe. You will be amazed

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Speaker 4: at the kinds of you know, response and rapport and

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Speaker 4: and it's through those small intimate moments that grow into

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Speaker 4: bigger social relations, you know, with one another, and I

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Speaker 4: think that is it's that is itself really crucial. If

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Speaker 4: people don't feel like they have time to you know,

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Speaker 4: that's all right, right. There are lots of also websites

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Speaker 4: that are available to look up you know, little pithy

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Speaker 4: historical narratives, and you know, everyone learns incrementally. It's not

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Speaker 4: like we can sit down and like absorb every all

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Speaker 4: histories of the world, you know, and through one book.

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Speaker 4: That's not possible. But I think we do the small acts,

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Speaker 4: and the small acts build up, and that's crucial.

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Speaker 2: I love that, I mean.

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Speaker 5: So beautifully said. Your words are just so powerful, and

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Speaker 5: we are so grateful to have you on the show,

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Speaker 5: to have your insight, to have your expertise, to have

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Speaker 5: your warmth and your kindness which radiates through the screen here.

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Speaker 5: So we have to do everything in our power to

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Speaker 5: speak out, share our voices, share our stories.

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Speaker 2: Amplify Asian voices and all marginalized people's voices.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, And you know, I think there are opportunities

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Speaker 4: for people to engage, you know, on there's a there's

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Speaker 4: a great organization that started chaperoning elders, you know, in Chinatown,

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Speaker 4: so they would walk them to their doctor's appointments, walk

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Speaker 4: them to the groceries at the grocery markets, you know,

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Speaker 4: and really kind of make sure that they're not alone.

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Speaker 4: And the simple act you know of just walking someone

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Speaker 4: has an amazing, amazing effect. And you know, those are

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Speaker 4: the again, the small acts that people can take up,

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Speaker 4: you know, to support Asian American community during this moment.

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Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, Well, thank you so much. You know,

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Speaker 5: doctor lock Su, you are just a gem, a gem,

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Speaker 5: and we appreciate you. We are going to say mahalo

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Speaker 5: nui loa from the bottom of our heart for having

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Speaker 5: this incredible conversation that all of our listeners need to

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Speaker 5: listen to. So again we thank you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you both so much much. This is such an

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Speaker 4: important topic and I so appreciate your commitment and dedication

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Speaker 4: to these issues.

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Speaker 2: So thank you, Thank you so much, doctor Seu. The

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Speaker 2: modern movement for Asian American civil rights began with very

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Speaker 2: little support. That was during a time when anti Asian

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Speaker 2: American sentiment was particularly harsh, and legal experts weren't confident

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Speaker 2: that civil rights law could apply to a case involving

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Speaker 2: the beating death of an Asian American.

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Speaker 5: But two people did speak up, and their names were

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Speaker 5: Helen Zia and Liza Chan. Zia was a writer and

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Speaker 5: activist who helped to form American Citizens for Justice, and

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Speaker 5: Chan was the lawyer who took on the criminal case

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Speaker 5: pro bono, getting evidence and testimonies.

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Speaker 2: When these women started, there was no national civil rights

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Speaker 2: group or even a movement for Asian Americans. Not only

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Speaker 2: did their work advanced the fight for justice for Vincent Chin,

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Speaker 2: it laid the groundwork for a larger movement that continues

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Speaker 2: to grow today.

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Speaker 5: That's right, and they started with nothing and ended up

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Speaker 5: with a movement that has touched millions.

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Speaker 2: And now we would like to take a moment to

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Speaker 2: honor work like this that sheds light and an incredibly

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Speaker 2: dark time when things seem impossible, and goes on to

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Speaker 2: make a meaningful difference onward and upward.

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Speaker 5: Emoa emua.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's our show for today. We'd love to hear

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Speaker 2: what you thought about today's discussion and if there's a

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Speaker 2: case you'd like us to.

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Speaker 5: Cover, find us on social media or email us at

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Speaker 5: Facingevil Pod at Tenderfoot dot tv.

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Speaker 2: And one small request, if you haven't already, please find

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Speaker 2: us on iTunes and give us a good rating and review.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we do, your support is always cherished.

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Speaker 2: Nill next time.

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Speaker 6: Aloha.

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Speaker 1: Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and tenderfoot TV.

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Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Russia Pacuerero and Avet Gentile.

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00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf

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00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald

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00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of

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Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Carolyn Talmadge.

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00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on

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00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: social media or email us at Facing Evil pod at

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00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: tenderfoot dot tv. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV,

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Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.