WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Christina Pipkin Part 1 0:00:08.285 --> 0:00:13.885 School of Humans. On May fourth, nineteen ninety one, nine 0:00:13.965 --> 0:00:17.205 year old Christina Pipkin had lunch with her mother Frida, 0:00:17.525 --> 0:00:21.205 at her home in Hickory Ridge, Arkansas. Christina was just 0:00:21.245 --> 0:00:25.125 a month away from her tenth birthday. Hickory Ridge is 0:00:25.165 --> 0:00:29.205 a small farming community in East Arkansas down Highway forty nine, 0:00:29.325 --> 0:00:33.485 about eighty miles west of Memphis, Tennessee. Back then, it 0:00:33.565 --> 0:00:37.445 had a population of just over four hundred people. Today 0:00:37.565 --> 0:00:40.045 it's between two and three hundred people. But you get 0:00:40.085 --> 0:00:43.325 the idea this is not a major metropolis. You have 0:00:43.405 --> 0:00:45.685 to remember this was a time when kids would roam 0:00:45.725 --> 0:00:48.405 around after school. That was a lot more common than 0:00:48.445 --> 0:00:51.245 it is today. They would ride bikes and play in 0:00:51.285 --> 0:00:53.485 the woods, and of course this was also a time 0:00:53.565 --> 0:00:58.165 before cell phones. Christina Pipkin had a mission that day. 0:00:58.805 --> 0:01:01.445 She wanted to walk door to door to sell costume 0:01:01.565 --> 0:01:05.125 jewelry for her school fundraiser. She had her leaflet with 0:01:05.125 --> 0:01:07.805 the jewel listings on it and was carrying a pencil 0:01:07.965 --> 0:01:10.165 so that people could mark down what they wanted to order. 0:01:11.125 --> 0:01:14.245 Christina asked her dad James, if she could go around 0:01:14.245 --> 0:01:18.165 to neighbors houses, and at first he said no, but 0:01:18.285 --> 0:01:22.885 Christina asked again and he relented, but her father gave 0:01:22.965 --> 0:01:26.765 her strict instructions stay on your side of the railroad 0:01:26.765 --> 0:01:31.645 tracks and be home by dark. But Christina didn't make 0:01:31.685 --> 0:01:36.285 it back home before dark. On May fourth, nineteen ninety one, 0:01:36.845 --> 0:01:40.725 sunset and Hickory Ridge, Arkansas, happened at around seven fifty 0:01:40.805 --> 0:01:46.725 six pm. Christina's parents, James and Frieda, reported her missing 0:01:46.805 --> 0:01:49.845 to the Cross County Sheriff's department at eight fifty three pm. 0:01:50.805 --> 0:01:54.805 Soon everyone was looking for her. Over two hundred volunteers 0:01:54.845 --> 0:01:59.285 were searching the entire area. They covered a fifteen mile radius. 0:01:59.765 --> 0:02:02.765 They were calling friends and knocking on doors going to 0:02:02.805 --> 0:02:06.325 nearby houses, but there was no sign of Christina anywhere. 0:02:07.125 --> 0:02:12.205 Christina's description went out Christina Pipkin, age nine, four foot nine, 0:02:12.485 --> 0:02:16.085 weight eighty pounds. She was wearing a white desert storm 0:02:16.165 --> 0:02:19.645 T shirt with kuwait on the front and closed toe 0:02:19.725 --> 0:02:27.045 white sandals. Three days later, on May seventh, nineteen ninety one, 0:02:27.085 --> 0:02:29.565 a father and son who lived a few miles away, 0:02:29.925 --> 0:02:33.245 right across the Jackson County line, were walking through their 0:02:33.325 --> 0:02:36.405 rice fields. There had been some flooding recently, so they 0:02:36.405 --> 0:02:39.165 were looking around on their property to check the water levels. 0:02:39.765 --> 0:02:44.205 They lived near a large canal called Cowlake Ditch. After 0:02:44.245 --> 0:02:47.525 the flooding, the water levels were much higher than normal. 0:02:47.965 --> 0:02:50.725 Police later said the levels were up to around nine 0:02:50.765 --> 0:02:54.005 feet that day, and as they were walking over the 0:02:54.045 --> 0:02:57.765 bridge that crossed Highway forty two, the seven year old 0:02:57.845 --> 0:03:02.325 son saw something in the water. He said, Dad, isn't 0:03:02.325 --> 0:03:06.805 that the girl that's missing. They had found the body 0:03:06.885 --> 0:03:12.325 of Christina Pipkin. I'm Catherine Townsend. If you have a 0:03:12.325 --> 0:03:14.605 case you'd like me and my team to look into, 0:03:15.205 --> 0:03:17.245 you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone 0:03:17.285 --> 0:03:21.085 Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six 0:03:21.245 --> 0:04:11.645 one four five. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. A 0:04:11.645 --> 0:04:14.845 few weeks ago, a woman named Amy Tubbs reached out 0:04:14.885 --> 0:04:19.045 to me. She had been investigating the Christina Pipkin case 0:04:19.045 --> 0:04:22.165 for years, ever since she learned that her father in law, 0:04:22.445 --> 0:04:25.765 Robbie Tubbs, had been a suspect in that case. 0:04:26.245 --> 0:04:32.085 So I married Robbie Tubbs Senior, his son who shares 0:04:32.125 --> 0:04:35.845 the same name, except there's a junior behind it. So 0:04:35.925 --> 0:04:40.005 we started dating in twenty fourteen, and on one of 0:04:40.045 --> 0:04:44.365 our first dates, my mom called me really freaked out 0:04:44.685 --> 0:04:48.925 and she said, oh my gosh, are you with him? 0:04:49.125 --> 0:04:51.925 You need to get your stuff and leave right now. 0:04:53.165 --> 0:04:57.205 And what are you talking about? And her and my 0:04:57.325 --> 0:05:03.485 aunt had googled his name obviously and found the various 0:05:03.725 --> 0:05:08.605 articles linking him to Christina and not I guess thought 0:05:09.165 --> 0:05:11.845 about the dates and how you know he was the 0:05:11.925 --> 0:05:15.125 child himself would not happen, and so he was like, well, 0:05:15.405 --> 0:05:18.725 this is not how I wanted to tell you about that, 0:05:18.965 --> 0:05:20.045 but here we go. 0:05:21.045 --> 0:05:24.045 Amy said that she's always had an interest in true crime. 0:05:24.685 --> 0:05:26.965 She wanted to know the truth about what happened, so 0:05:27.405 --> 0:05:29.725 she did a deep dive into the case, and the 0:05:29.765 --> 0:05:32.285 more she learned, the more questions she had. 0:05:32.685 --> 0:05:36.085 So when I started looking into the case and just 0:05:36.205 --> 0:05:39.405 kind of googling it, I couldn't believe that there was 0:05:40.205 --> 0:05:45.165 so little evidence that they used against him, and that 0:05:45.245 --> 0:05:46.925 they were seeking the death penalty. 0:05:49.645 --> 0:05:53.445 Christina's body was found in cow Lake Ditch. She was 0:05:53.485 --> 0:05:56.245 face down and her head was caught in a tree branch, 0:05:56.845 --> 0:05:59.125 so even though the current was really strong and the 0:05:59.165 --> 0:06:02.965 water levels were high, Christina was wedged in there, trapped. 0:06:03.965 --> 0:06:07.365 The police recovered the body and senate for testing. They 0:06:07.485 --> 0:06:10.965 later revealed that Christina's body had no sign of injuries 0:06:11.005 --> 0:06:15.645 on it, and that she was fully clothed. Christina's family 0:06:15.685 --> 0:06:20.045 members said early on that she couldn't swim. But even 0:06:20.085 --> 0:06:23.085 though the police said they found no obvious signs of 0:06:23.125 --> 0:06:27.765 molestation on Christina's body, Dale Arnold, the state police investigator, 0:06:27.805 --> 0:06:32.165 said very early on police suspected foul play. They did 0:06:32.205 --> 0:06:35.365 not believe that Christina had gotten to cow Lake Ditch 0:06:35.405 --> 0:06:39.965 on her own. Cross County Sheriff Ronnie Hughey said, quote, 0:06:40.285 --> 0:06:43.845 there were no marks on her, no scratches, no trauma, nothing. 0:06:44.405 --> 0:06:47.805 But I think it's foul play. Somebody caused that child 0:06:47.805 --> 0:06:52.285 to be in that ditchway out there end quote. But 0:06:52.485 --> 0:06:56.085 if there was no obvious, visible sign of assault, why 0:06:56.085 --> 0:06:58.405 are they so certain that this involved foul play. 0:06:59.405 --> 0:07:04.205 Nobody in that town will talk to me. I don't 0:07:04.205 --> 0:07:07.925 know if it's because my name's Tod. I mean there's 0:07:07.925 --> 0:07:11.325 a strong chance, but about that state police had everything 0:07:11.365 --> 0:07:15.525 locked down and started acting real fishy when I started 0:07:15.565 --> 0:07:19.005 asking questions. I guess the reason why they suspect foul 0:07:19.085 --> 0:07:25.525 play was two things. One, it was about three miles 0:07:25.525 --> 0:07:28.325 from her house and they don't feel like she would 0:07:28.325 --> 0:07:32.645 have gone that far, And she had on white closed 0:07:32.685 --> 0:07:36.405 toed sandals the last time anyone saw and they never 0:07:36.485 --> 0:07:37.565 fail those sandals. 0:07:42.885 --> 0:07:45.405 Amy has done a lot of work over the years. 0:07:45.805 --> 0:07:49.685 She submitted multiple Floyer requests, She's contacted people and mapped 0:07:49.685 --> 0:07:53.845 out locations, and as she mentioned, she said that Christina's 0:07:53.885 --> 0:07:56.725 body was found around three miles away from her home, 0:07:57.765 --> 0:08:01.365 but some newspaper reports say the distance between where Christina 0:08:01.445 --> 0:08:03.605 was last seen and the ditch where she was eventually 0:08:03.645 --> 0:08:07.765 found was around four miles. Others estimate the distances closer 0:08:07.805 --> 0:08:11.845 to five miles. And it's confusing because when I looked 0:08:11.885 --> 0:08:15.005 on Google Maps and tried to map this location myself, 0:08:15.605 --> 0:08:19.445 it showed a walking distance of nine miles, which would 0:08:19.485 --> 0:08:23.565 have taken Christina about three hours to get to. This 0:08:23.605 --> 0:08:26.645 does not seem plausible, but I know this is a 0:08:26.685 --> 0:08:31.685 rural area and appearances can be deceiving. Sometimes distances are 0:08:31.805 --> 0:08:34.285 not an accurate depiction of what's actually going on on 0:08:34.325 --> 0:08:39.125 the ground. Sometimes there are shortcuts that we can't see online. 0:08:39.365 --> 0:08:41.805 So I feel like this is one of those questions 0:08:42.085 --> 0:08:44.245 that I'm going to have to go to Arkansas to answer. 0:08:47.405 --> 0:08:50.885 After Christina went missing, detectives went around the neighborhood and 0:08:50.925 --> 0:08:54.525 interviewed the people who had last seen her. While canvassing, 0:08:54.605 --> 0:08:58.445 they talked to a woman named Elsie Lyles. Elsie Lyles 0:08:58.565 --> 0:09:03.045 lived on Doty Street, right down from Christina's house. Elsie 0:09:03.085 --> 0:09:06.525 said that Christina had stopped by her house at four pm. 0:09:07.165 --> 0:09:10.165 Elsie said she gave Christina a pickle as a snack. 0:09:10.965 --> 0:09:15.045 After eating that pickle, Christina left Elsie's house and walked home. 0:09:16.365 --> 0:09:18.445 That's when she asked her dad if she could walk 0:09:18.485 --> 0:09:22.645 around to do her door to door jewelry sales. Christina 0:09:22.765 --> 0:09:26.685 had two school friends with her. They told police that 0:09:26.725 --> 0:09:29.725 for the next hour or so, they went around selling 0:09:29.765 --> 0:09:33.605 their jewelry door to door. According to the information Amy has, 0:09:33.965 --> 0:09:37.685 the girls told law enforcement they left Christina at about 0:09:37.725 --> 0:09:41.285 six thirty pm at East Ash Street. This was just 0:09:41.325 --> 0:09:44.845 a couple of blocks from Christina's home. Now. I haven't 0:09:44.885 --> 0:09:48.325 seen any of the official reports pertaining to Christina's case. 0:09:48.965 --> 0:09:51.645 Technically it's still an open case file. I have made 0:09:51.725 --> 0:09:54.085 a foyer request and I will let you know if 0:09:54.165 --> 0:09:58.525 I hear back from police. But I just want to 0:09:58.525 --> 0:10:00.325 put it out there. I would love to talk to 0:10:00.365 --> 0:10:02.925 those girls if they are out there and if they're 0:10:02.965 --> 0:10:06.045 listening to this, because I believe they could have crucial 0:10:06.085 --> 0:10:09.845 information about Christina's activities that afternoon, and they might not 0:10:09.925 --> 0:10:17.165 even realize how important it is. Detectives later found remnants 0:10:17.165 --> 0:10:22.565 of the pickle in Christina's stomach, partially undigested, which means 0:10:22.605 --> 0:10:25.525 that police believe she died on the same day she 0:10:25.605 --> 0:10:29.845 went missing. So we go back to that day, May fourth, 0:10:30.045 --> 0:10:33.525 nineteen ninety one. It's late afternoon, getting to early evening. 0:10:34.725 --> 0:10:39.445 Christina's friends parted ways with her at around six thirty pm. Now, 0:10:39.685 --> 0:10:43.405 Christina's dad specifically told her to be home before dark. 0:10:44.045 --> 0:10:47.885 So whether it was three or four miles or nine miles, 0:10:48.365 --> 0:10:51.725 what would make a little girl suddenly decide to walk 0:10:51.805 --> 0:10:55.685 on her own to a ditch right before dark when 0:10:55.685 --> 0:10:59.685 she couldn't swim. There are a few other odd facts 0:10:59.725 --> 0:11:02.405 about the case that could seem to point toward foul play. 0:11:02.885 --> 0:11:06.445 They're mainly circumstantial, like the fact that the detectives never 0:11:06.525 --> 0:11:09.285 found the items that Christina was carrying when she left 0:11:09.285 --> 0:11:12.765 her house. They didn't find her jewelry, leaflets, or the 0:11:12.805 --> 0:11:17.085 pencil she was carrying around with her to write down orders. Also, 0:11:17.485 --> 0:11:21.165 Christina's body was fully clothed. As we said before, she 0:11:21.205 --> 0:11:22.965 was wearing the same things she had been wearing the 0:11:23.045 --> 0:11:27.445 afternoon she disappeared, but her shoes were missing, and no 0:11:27.485 --> 0:11:32.525 one ever found her clothes toe white sandals. So what 0:11:32.685 --> 0:11:35.605 happened to the shoes? Did she take them off herself? 0:11:35.925 --> 0:11:38.725 Could someone have been chasing her through those dense, watery 0:11:38.845 --> 0:11:41.645 rice fields and her shoes peeled off her feet, that 0:11:41.765 --> 0:11:45.485 is possible, Or was she hanging out at someone's house 0:11:45.685 --> 0:11:48.925 or in their car and took them off herself. If 0:11:48.925 --> 0:11:51.885 she was killed, did the killer take the shoes, did 0:11:51.925 --> 0:11:53.965 they throw them away or did they still have them 0:11:54.005 --> 0:11:58.045 stashed somewhere. These are all the types of dark possibilities 0:11:58.085 --> 0:12:04.445 that have occurred to me with this case. As we 0:12:04.485 --> 0:12:07.325 said before, the sherif of Cross County, where Christina and 0:12:07.365 --> 0:12:11.045 her family lived, Ronnie Hughey, actually said at the time 0:12:11.445 --> 0:12:14.685 the detectives believed Christina was picked up and driven to 0:12:14.725 --> 0:12:18.085 the site where her body was found, and he's given 0:12:18.125 --> 0:12:20.925 a couple of reasons over the years to media about 0:12:20.925 --> 0:12:24.085 why he thinks this. First of all, he said, if 0:12:24.125 --> 0:12:27.085 she walked to that area would have taken a pretty 0:12:27.125 --> 0:12:29.725 long time, and he believes someone would have seen her 0:12:29.765 --> 0:12:34.405 out walking. Number two, kind of along the same lines, 0:12:34.445 --> 0:12:37.085 as I was thinking, just the fact that it was 0:12:37.205 --> 0:12:39.765 near dark. Christina was a couple of blocks from home, 0:12:39.845 --> 0:12:42.485 and she was supposed to be home before dark. Why 0:12:42.485 --> 0:12:45.685 would she randomly turn around and walk in the other 0:12:45.765 --> 0:12:50.445 direction hours away to a flooded ditch when she couldn't swim. 0:12:50.885 --> 0:12:54.405 Detectives did a lot of interviews, but they didn't make 0:12:54.405 --> 0:12:57.885 any arrests, and over the years, a lot of people 0:12:57.885 --> 0:13:00.605 in the county wondered why the case seemed to go cold, 0:13:02.205 --> 0:13:06.365 and Christina's body was not the last child body found 0:13:06.365 --> 0:13:10.925 in East Darkansas over the next few years. On October thirteenth, 0:13:11.005 --> 0:13:14.125 nineteen ninety one, a few months after Christina's body was found, 0:13:14.685 --> 0:13:19.125 sixteen year old Guardinia Jones Cross disappeared. Guardina was a 0:13:19.165 --> 0:13:22.005 tenth grader at high school in When, a nearby town. 0:13:22.605 --> 0:13:26.445 She lived with her grandmother, Hattie Cross. Guardinia was also 0:13:26.565 --> 0:13:29.645 a young mother herself. She was raising a one year 0:13:29.645 --> 0:13:35.565 old daughter. Guardinia's grandmother, Hattie, reported her missing, but Guardina 0:13:35.645 --> 0:13:38.045 was not missing for long because the next day, on 0:13:38.085 --> 0:13:41.725 October fourteenth, a man was walking along the side of 0:13:41.725 --> 0:13:44.885 a road called Moore Road outside of when he was 0:13:44.925 --> 0:13:49.325 collecting cans and he saw a body naked except for 0:13:49.365 --> 0:13:55.765 a bra. It was Guardinia Cross. Guardena had a puncture 0:13:55.805 --> 0:13:59.605 wound in her head, which investigators theorized was made with 0:13:59.725 --> 0:14:04.565 something like a tool, maybe a screwdriver, and unlike in 0:14:04.645 --> 0:14:08.725 Christina's case, this time there was no ambiguity. This had 0:14:08.765 --> 0:14:13.645 been a brutal murder. Forensic testing revealed something else. When 0:14:13.645 --> 0:14:18.485 she died, Guardina Cross was around five months pregnant. No 0:14:18.525 --> 0:14:24.965 one was arrested or charged with that murder. In May 0:14:25.005 --> 0:14:28.645 of nineteen ninety two, another young girl, a thirteen year 0:14:28.685 --> 0:14:33.085 old named Geneva Smith, was reported missing. On June first, 0:14:33.645 --> 0:14:37.165 a body was found in the Saint Francis River. Remember 0:14:37.285 --> 0:14:41.005 this was back in the nineties, before DNA testing was widespread, 0:14:41.565 --> 0:14:44.245 and police had nothing to go on. They didn't even 0:14:44.325 --> 0:14:48.205 have dental records to compare with Geneva. But investigators said 0:14:48.205 --> 0:14:50.725 at the time they were ninety nine percent sure that 0:14:50.765 --> 0:14:53.605 the body was her based on the clothing that she 0:14:53.725 --> 0:14:57.005 was wearing. The shoes and shirt matched the description that 0:14:57.045 --> 0:14:59.485 Geneva's family had given of what she'd been wearing the 0:14:59.565 --> 0:15:03.885 day she went missing. This was a tragedy. They did 0:15:03.925 --> 0:15:07.925 eventually determine that the was Geneva Smith. The body was 0:15:07.965 --> 0:15:12.365 so decomposed they weren't able to determine the exact cause 0:15:12.365 --> 0:15:15.525 of death. And not only that, all they could determine 0:15:15.565 --> 0:15:19.245 at first was that the victim was black. They couldn't 0:15:19.245 --> 0:15:22.045 even figure out what gender the body was. It was 0:15:22.085 --> 0:15:27.965 that badly decomposed and brutalized. I cannot imagine how horrifying 0:15:28.085 --> 0:15:32.285 that must have been for that young woman's family. So 0:15:32.405 --> 0:15:36.565 what happened in that case? Eventually police did make an arrest. 0:15:36.605 --> 0:15:41.245 They charged two suspects with that killing, but those two 0:15:41.285 --> 0:15:45.605 men were released, So Geneva Smith's killer or killers are 0:15:45.685 --> 0:15:54.405 also still out there. Then, in May of nineteen ninety three, 0:15:54.445 --> 0:15:57.085 there was, of course, the three eight year old boys, 0:15:57.525 --> 0:16:01.165 Michael Moore, Steve Branch and Christopher Byers, the boys who 0:16:01.245 --> 0:16:04.525 had become known as the West Memphis Three. The three 0:16:04.565 --> 0:16:07.485 friends went out for after school bike ride and they 0:16:07.525 --> 0:16:11.365 never came home. Their mutilated bodies were found in a 0:16:11.405 --> 0:16:16.285 nearby swamp. Now, eventually this case became a national sensation, 0:16:16.885 --> 0:16:18.925 and most of my listeners will be familiar with what 0:16:19.005 --> 0:16:22.045 happened next in the West Memphis three case, sixteen year 0:16:22.045 --> 0:16:25.445 old Jesse mus Kelly, seventeen year old James Baldwin and 0:16:25.525 --> 0:16:29.925 eighteen year old Damien Eccles were arrested, prosecuted, and eventually convicted. 0:16:30.725 --> 0:16:34.365 Jesse and James got life sentences, Damien was sentenced to death. 0:16:35.565 --> 0:16:38.605 All of them sat in jail for many years before 0:16:38.845 --> 0:16:42.005 numerous documentaries and books came out about this case and 0:16:42.045 --> 0:16:45.685 they documented the many injustices that had happened, the fact 0:16:45.685 --> 0:16:48.485 that there was no DNA evidence that matched any of them, 0:16:48.965 --> 0:16:52.125 no physical evidence, and there were a lot of problems 0:16:52.165 --> 0:16:55.005 with Jesse mc kelly's confession in particular, which had gone 0:16:55.005 --> 0:16:59.205 on for over twelve hours. Basically, Damien, James, and Jesse 0:16:59.325 --> 0:17:03.165 were convicted in an atmosphere of fear in West Memphis, 0:17:03.205 --> 0:17:06.925 and this followed the satanic hannicck hysteria that happened during 0:17:06.925 --> 0:17:10.365 the nineteen eighties. Because Damian was this kind of weird 0:17:10.445 --> 0:17:13.005 local guy who listened to heavy metal and wore black 0:17:13.045 --> 0:17:16.645 and was reportedly into witchcraft, the police just a laser 0:17:16.685 --> 0:17:20.405 focused on him and they refused to change course. Over 0:17:20.445 --> 0:17:23.725 the years, all three of them maintained their innocence and 0:17:23.845 --> 0:17:26.285 new DNA testing was done. In two thousand and seven, 0:17:26.565 --> 0:17:28.685 it was announced that the DNA found at the crime 0:17:28.725 --> 0:17:31.405 scene did not match any of them. It didn't match Damien, 0:17:31.565 --> 0:17:36.925 Jesse or James. Furthermore, there was DNA at that crime scene, 0:17:37.045 --> 0:17:42.005 the DNA of an unknown man. In twenty ten, the 0:17:42.045 --> 0:17:46.245 Supreme Court ruled that the defendants could present new evidence 0:17:46.245 --> 0:17:51.125 to establish their innocence. So the three of them had 0:17:51.165 --> 0:17:53.365 been sitting in jail for over twenty years and they 0:17:53.365 --> 0:17:55.805 were getting ready for a new trial, which, as we 0:17:55.845 --> 0:17:58.565 all know, could have taken years. That's when one of 0:17:58.605 --> 0:18:01.645 the defense attorneys suggested the men take something called an 0:18:01.645 --> 0:18:05.445 Alfred plea. Now, an Alfred plea is kind of unique. 0:18:05.605 --> 0:18:07.845 What it means is that they could still claim they 0:18:07.885 --> 0:18:12.725 were innocent while not changing their guilty plea. It's kind 0:18:12.765 --> 0:18:15.605 of a way of having it both ways. The state 0:18:15.685 --> 0:18:17.685 gets to save face. They don't have to have a 0:18:17.725 --> 0:18:21.725 new trial, they still have their guilty plea, and Damien, 0:18:22.005 --> 0:18:24.685 Jesse and James don't have to waste more years of 0:18:24.725 --> 0:18:26.645 their lives waiting for a new trial. They get to 0:18:26.645 --> 0:18:29.125 get out of jail and start their lives. So in 0:18:29.165 --> 0:18:33.405 twenty eleven, that's what happened. The three defendants were released 0:18:33.445 --> 0:18:35.605 without having to go through a new trial and having 0:18:35.645 --> 0:18:39.885 the verdict overturn. It's an ambiguous result. The case is 0:18:39.925 --> 0:18:43.045 still open. Damien and his attorneys are still fighting to 0:18:43.045 --> 0:18:46.405 get DNA from the crime scene. An Arkansas judge has 0:18:46.405 --> 0:18:49.925 denied that request. The judge said that he was denying 0:18:49.965 --> 0:18:54.005 the request because Damien's out of prison now. Damien and 0:18:54.045 --> 0:18:56.565 his lawyers have appealed this decision to the Arkansas Supreme 0:18:56.605 --> 0:18:58.805 Court and they are still waiting to find out if 0:18:58.805 --> 0:19:02.125 that DNA testing can happen. Remember, this saga has been 0:19:02.165 --> 0:19:04.525 going on for over thirty years at this point, and 0:19:04.565 --> 0:19:08.565 there's still no final answer. I bring this case up 0:19:08.605 --> 0:19:12.445 because I absolutely believe that if it hadn't been for 0:19:12.525 --> 0:19:15.885 the fact that all of these injustices were documented by 0:19:15.965 --> 0:19:19.885 journalists and books and documentaries, the problems with this case 0:19:19.925 --> 0:19:23.045 would never have been revealed. All three of those guys, 0:19:23.165 --> 0:19:25.685 Dami and Jesse and James would still be sitting in 0:19:25.725 --> 0:19:29.205 prison right now. I really believe that. And this was 0:19:29.245 --> 0:19:32.645 all going on in the early nineties. Especially during this time, 0:19:32.685 --> 0:19:35.485 there were some very real abuses going on in Arkansas, 0:19:35.645 --> 0:19:38.525 both in law enforcement and in the crime lab, and 0:19:38.565 --> 0:19:41.645 the repercussions of those mistakes are still going on to 0:19:41.725 --> 0:19:47.245 this day. Also, if those three guys weren't the killers. 0:19:47.765 --> 0:19:50.805 That means that the actual killer of the West Memphis three, 0:19:50.885 --> 0:19:54.565 the person or persons who mutilated those three little boys 0:19:54.965 --> 0:19:57.045 and dumped them in the swamp, is still out there, 0:19:57.645 --> 0:20:00.045 and a lot of people worry they may never be charged. 0:20:01.285 --> 0:20:04.925 Who knows how many predatory child killers are still out 0:20:04.965 --> 0:20:11.845 there any Darkansas. Now, despite the fact that all of 0:20:11.845 --> 0:20:16.365 these deaths happened in the same general area, investigators have 0:20:16.485 --> 0:20:19.125 never found a connection between any of them. Between the 0:20:19.125 --> 0:20:23.205 West Memphis three, Guardina Cross Jones, Geneva Smith, and Christina Pipkin, 0:20:23.765 --> 0:20:25.965 there were a lot of differences. The dead children were 0:20:25.965 --> 0:20:30.285 different ages. Guardina, like the West Memphis three, had a 0:20:30.285 --> 0:20:33.485 lot of damage to her body, while, for example, Christina 0:20:33.565 --> 0:20:36.765 did not have any obvious marks on her. Apparently Geneva 0:20:36.805 --> 0:20:41.405 Smith's body was too decomposed and no for sure. Cross 0:20:41.445 --> 0:20:45.885 County Sheriff Ronnie Hughey expressed his frustration back then. He said, quote, 0:20:46.125 --> 0:20:49.685 you keep scratching and clawing and digging. These kinds of 0:20:49.725 --> 0:20:53.405 cases are different because these are kids. We've been backwards 0:20:53.445 --> 0:20:59.565 and forwards. It's been very frustrating. End quote. Now let's 0:20:59.605 --> 0:21:02.765 come back to the Christina Pipkin case. Let's talk about 0:21:02.765 --> 0:21:06.925 what happened after police finally made an arrest. Police were 0:21:07.005 --> 0:21:09.885 questioning everyone in the neighborhood. They were checking out potential 0:21:09.885 --> 0:21:13.445 people of interest, including, from what my source says, some 0:21:13.485 --> 0:21:16.925 local sex offenders, including one guy from Florida who was 0:21:16.965 --> 0:21:21.085 living nearby. Then they began to focus on someone they 0:21:21.165 --> 0:21:23.885 considered a Bible suspect, and this is where Amy's father 0:21:23.965 --> 0:21:27.885 in law, Robbie Tubbs, enters the story. Amy admits that 0:21:27.925 --> 0:21:31.045 her father in law was, in her words, not a 0:21:31.085 --> 0:21:36.045 particularly good man. Back in the early nineties, Robbie was 0:21:36.125 --> 0:21:38.885 married and he and his wife, Sandra had five kids. 0:21:39.725 --> 0:21:43.365 According to Amy, Robbie was physically abusive with his wife 0:21:43.365 --> 0:21:47.005 Sandra at times. Robbie didn't have a regular nine to 0:21:47.045 --> 0:21:50.005 five job. He always did kind of side jobs. He 0:21:50.045 --> 0:21:52.885 would go out turtle hunting and fishing and selling things 0:21:52.885 --> 0:21:58.405 that he caught. Sandra Tubbs talked to the police in 0:21:58.445 --> 0:22:02.525 October of nineteen ninety one, a few months after Christina's 0:22:02.525 --> 0:22:05.485 body was found. When she came in to see them, 0:22:05.685 --> 0:22:08.445 she told them that back when Christina first went missing, 0:22:09.245 --> 0:22:11.565 Robbie had made a comment to her that she said 0:22:11.605 --> 0:22:14.645 disturbed her and it led her to believe that he had, 0:22:14.685 --> 0:22:19.165 in a way potentially confessed to Christina's murder. Sandra said 0:22:19.405 --> 0:22:22.285 Robbie told her, right after hearing that Christina was missing, 0:22:22.925 --> 0:22:25.445 that he knew Christina would turn up dead in a 0:22:25.525 --> 0:22:30.245 rice ditch in Jackson County. She told police that Robbie said, quote, 0:22:30.845 --> 0:22:33.685 there are too many rice ditches for somebody to drown in. 0:22:34.125 --> 0:22:38.525 She's dead end quote. Sandra said she confronted her husband 0:22:38.565 --> 0:22:40.645 and started asking him what he meant by that comment. 0:22:41.245 --> 0:22:44.885 When she did, the fight seemed to escalate. Sandra said 0:22:44.925 --> 0:22:48.165 she threatened to call the police, and that's when she 0:22:48.285 --> 0:22:51.445 said Robbie tied her up and gagged her to stop 0:22:51.485 --> 0:22:55.605 her from calling law enforcement. Sandra told a friend of hers, 0:22:55.725 --> 0:22:59.445 a woman named Susan, this same story at the time. Later, 0:22:59.605 --> 0:23:02.085 police called Sandra's friend and took a statement from her, 0:23:02.525 --> 0:23:05.325 and that friend confirmed that yes, Sandra had told her 0:23:05.325 --> 0:23:07.885 that story at around the time when Christina went missing. 0:23:08.805 --> 0:23:12.005 So the police went to talk to Robbie Tubbs. Arkansas 0:23:12.085 --> 0:23:16.485 State Police investigator Dale Arnold did the interview. According to 0:23:16.525 --> 0:23:20.085 police documents, the first time that Dale Arnold talked to Robbie, 0:23:20.645 --> 0:23:23.725 Robbie claimed he was not in the area of Hickory 0:23:23.805 --> 0:23:27.325 Ridge at all on May fourth, nineteen ninety one, so 0:23:27.405 --> 0:23:29.965 he said he was nowhere near the area where Christina 0:23:30.005 --> 0:23:34.165 went missing from, but later he apparently changed his story. 0:23:34.525 --> 0:23:36.445 He said he may have been around there on the 0:23:36.525 --> 0:23:41.645 day Christina disappeared. Police were finding issues with Robbie's alibi. 0:23:42.365 --> 0:23:45.405 Robbie claimed he had been staying in a motel and DeWitt, Arkansas, 0:23:45.845 --> 0:23:49.525 but police checked the motel registration they couldn't find any 0:23:49.565 --> 0:23:54.325 record of Robbie staying there, probably because police believed Christina 0:23:54.365 --> 0:23:57.445 had been driven to that location. Obviously, they were checking 0:23:57.525 --> 0:24:01.165 out every person of interest car. At some point police 0:24:01.165 --> 0:24:04.285 figured out that Robbie had a car, a nineteen eighty 0:24:04.325 --> 0:24:07.645 one amce EA that he had sold sometime in the 0:24:07.645 --> 0:24:10.805 spring of nineteen ninety one, so this is December of 0:24:10.885 --> 0:24:15.245 nineteen ninety one. After Sandra came to see them, police 0:24:15.285 --> 0:24:17.485 found the woman who Robbie had sold the car to. 0:24:18.325 --> 0:24:21.165 It wasn't running, just sitting out in her yard where 0:24:21.165 --> 0:24:24.485 it had been sitting for months. But police went out 0:24:24.485 --> 0:24:27.165 and found the vehicle and did forensic testing on that car. 0:24:27.965 --> 0:24:32.045 They got a hair sample which they bagged as evidence. Now, 0:24:32.165 --> 0:24:36.445 Robbie's private life was complicated. He was married to Sandra, 0:24:37.005 --> 0:24:40.565 but he had been seeing another woman named Janetta. Police 0:24:40.605 --> 0:24:43.885 asked Robbie during their questioning if Christina could have ever 0:24:44.005 --> 0:24:47.645 been inside his car, and apparently at one point he 0:24:47.685 --> 0:24:50.885 said that Christina and another child may have sat in 0:24:50.925 --> 0:24:55.245 his car with Janetta. Apparently her child went to the 0:24:55.285 --> 0:24:59.245 same school as Christina. Anyway, he said that he and 0:24:59.285 --> 0:25:02.805 these kids, one of whom may have been Christina, sat 0:25:02.845 --> 0:25:05.885 in his car in a nearby park with Janetta. But 0:25:05.965 --> 0:25:09.285 then police talked to Janetta. She said that wasn't true. 0:25:09.365 --> 0:25:12.405 She said Christina was never in that car and that 0:25:12.445 --> 0:25:16.725 they had never been in that park. So now Robbie's 0:25:16.765 --> 0:25:20.165 alibi seemed to be kind of falling apart. I want 0:25:20.165 --> 0:25:22.925 to point out, though, that without access to the case file, 0:25:23.165 --> 0:25:26.805 without recordings of what happened, we don't know what happened 0:25:26.845 --> 0:25:29.445 before Robbie made those statements. We don't know what the 0:25:29.485 --> 0:25:32.085 police told Robbie, how long they had him in custody. 0:25:33.005 --> 0:25:36.245 Were these statements coerced in any way. I'm not saying 0:25:36.245 --> 0:25:38.845 that they were. I'm just saying that, given what was 0:25:38.885 --> 0:25:41.685 going on in Arkansas at that time, we need to 0:25:41.805 --> 0:25:46.125 know for sure how that questioning went down. Growing up, 0:25:46.165 --> 0:25:48.445 I used to always think that if you hadn't done 0:25:48.485 --> 0:25:50.645 anything wrong, that there was no way that you would 0:25:50.725 --> 0:25:53.845 lie in a police interrogation room. But after what I've 0:25:53.925 --> 0:25:56.285