1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: Slably. My mother told me she would shoot me if 2 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: I ever started a podcast, and I instead took that risk. 3 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: I left home and I started a podcast. She didn't 4 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: know where I was. It was the scariest thing I've 5 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: ever done. But to be scared is to be hungry. 6 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: To be hungry is to be alife. To be alive 7 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: is to be sexual. To be sexual is to be dead. 8 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: To be dead is to podcast. To podcast is to 9 00:00:54,240 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: have inside of you two energies of cock and the vagina. 10 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: With my money from podcasting, I bought a house up state. 11 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: Kill your mother, take her organs, use them to soundproof 12 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: your home studio. I want you to stomp on the microphone. 13 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: Buy one and stomp on it, because what is money 14 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: and what is voice? Right from my website patreon dot 15 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: com slaps you see the pub who's that knocking at 16 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: the door. It's all your friends, your filthy horse. Your 17 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: husband's gone, and you've got books and a bottle of 18 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: wine to kill. It's books, it's gossip. I'm shook. It's 19 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: memoirs Martini. Celebri book Club can read it while it's hot. 20 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: Celebripook Club. Tell your secrets. We won't talk celebrity books, 21 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: No Boys Are Allowed, celebrit Book, Say It Loud and Poud, 22 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: Celebripook Club buzz Man. I brought the Queer Foe he 23 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: friend to see you. Welcome to New York, my favorite 24 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: serbian friend. Yeah, it's been a long time. I've been 25 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: in the serbian hub of New Orleans for the first week. No, 26 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: it's crazy. It's like you've been in New Orleans for 27 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: not only just five days, but it feels like you've 28 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: been on forever. It was six days and it did 29 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: feel like a year, and it did move there as 30 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: attended to you. When I go to a city and 31 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: it was iconic and you have to go, you're gonna 32 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: love it. I feel like when people here, because we're 33 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: like ridiculous love drinking and like bars and like pridiculous 34 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: old men, people are like, what, you've never been to 35 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: New Orleans. Yeah, they kind of are shook that we 36 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: haven't experienced it because it's so up our alley and same. 37 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 1: I was just like, Wow, I can't believe I've never 38 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: been in this scronky, hazzy hub of crazy people and 39 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: drunks and gay and an old queen's Yeah, and it 40 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: was it really was all that, and I can't wait 41 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: to tell you about it in the v I can't 42 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: wait to hear about in the VIP lounge. I mean 43 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: it really is, like you know, bars are open twenty 44 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: four hours a day there, I've heard of that rumor 45 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: actually was like I knew they were opened like really late, 46 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: but like twenty four hours. Like get this, Okay, this 47 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: is like a crazy like piece of lore. But like 48 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: there are bars that didn't have to get locks until 49 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: the pandemic because it was the first time they'd ever 50 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: closed their doors. That's insane, isn't that crazy? What? Yeah, 51 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: wrap your hat around Okay, And that's so you because 52 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: you hate locks. I do hate locks. You're always like 53 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: being so like down honed Georgia girl, and you're just 54 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: me and like mad neck of the woods. We don't 55 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: lock our doors and Ridge No, I mean I do 56 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: hate locking my door. I'm antiett. I'm I'm a little 57 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: nervous to say that on my publish So that's it. 58 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: Against even lives in Ridgewood and he doesn't lock his door. 59 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: He has a joy Bird couch. He has a sixty 60 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: three inch TV. First of all, it's fifty five second 61 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: of all, there's no resil value in the joybird, so 62 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: just step away. I love the idea of someone robbing 63 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: my fall couch. I know it just edits being so 64 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: friends and they're having trouble, like taking it down. Speaking 65 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: of joybirds, I feel like this is a good transition 66 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: because it deals with bodily fluids and like rawness and feminism. 67 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: I bled on my joybird. Va Oh my god, the 68 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: period that somehow I still get because every month for me, 69 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: I am always just like damn, what fuck? I'm like 70 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: still shook. Anyway, Yeah, I bled on my Joybird. I dabbed, 71 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: and it's still there's still a little bit of listening. 72 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: But that piece is an iconic testament though the power 73 00:04:54,560 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: of woman and the man and the reproductive journey in horses, 74 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: and that piece the couch is called childless, and it 75 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: is an installation piece about your refusal to reproduce. Yes, 76 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: my refusal to reproduce, my refusal to like admit I 77 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: get a period. So it's about like gender and just 78 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: you know, and your mother always wanted it to have 79 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: baby and you said, no, I will never have a baby. 80 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: Because I feel like some female friends of mine have 81 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,479 Speaker 1: been like why don't you go on like yeahs or 82 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: get an iud because, like anyone good a period. But 83 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: I feel like that's like and you were like you 84 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm like, god, I'm I'm not gonna go 85 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: on fucking birth control. Why are you getting an eye? 86 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: Imagine if I was like, uh, you guys, I have 87 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: to go get my IUD in because all the cock 88 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: up there. Speaking of someone who loves cock, yeah, speaking 89 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: of one of the most iconic cock hungry queens in history. 90 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: We read you read what can only be described as 91 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: a traditional performance piece of a book. The performance is 92 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: still going on, the performance star did with probably us 93 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: like always knowing we had to do this book. Yeah, 94 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: and every time we brought up going it's too long, 95 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: it's too intense, it's too much of and then we 96 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: read it slash list and then that was adrational performance. 97 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: And now we're talking about it and I'm still listening 98 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: and I'll never stop listening to it. Of course, we're 99 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: talking about none other than none other than the famous 100 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: Yugoslavian performance artists may like Milosovich, some might call her 101 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: the most famous performance artists of all time. Some people 102 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: have said she, of course is most famous, well sorry, 103 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: her book title, excuse me, it's called walk Through Walls. 104 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: Walk Through Walls, which is a reference to her incredibly 105 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: harsh sort of communist upbringing in the form of Yugoslavia 106 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: in Belgrade which is now Serbia, and walking through Walls 107 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: was like kind of represents the stoicism and the intensity 108 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: and the refusal to feel pain that you must endure 109 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: growing up in this harsh communist society, and that was 110 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: how she was raised. I would also say it references, 111 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: I mean, which was a byproduct of one of her 112 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: great works that she does, which was walking the Great 113 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: Wall of China. Sure, and then there was also that 114 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: thing where her and Ule like ran into columns where 115 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: they were like literally trying to walk through walls. And 116 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: of course it references the commitment to her work, to 117 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: performance and the strength specifically to durational performance, and the 118 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: strength of being able to sit in a chair for 119 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: eight hours a day for three months, which she famously 120 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: did at Mama. I mean, as someone who literally went 121 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: to art school, took it performance art class in high school. 122 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: I literally I feel like did only her her when 123 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: she did her famous moment piece the artist is present 124 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: where she sat in a chair and anyone got to 125 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: go and sit across from her and make eye contact. 126 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: And she sat there. Yeah, no adult diaper. Well, but 127 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: she had a trapdoor. There was a little trap door 128 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: right below her ps and she could pess in it. 129 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: I watched the documentary last night. The artist is present, 130 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: same name, yes, and she's like so excited about her 131 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: little hole and she's showing Klaus, and Klaus is just like, well, 132 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: you can't use it. He's been like, don't use the hole. Okay, 133 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: we will get into the cloud stuff, because by the 134 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: end of the book I was freaking shook by the 135 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: clouds drama. Klaus piece and Park of course head and 136 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: curator of Mama One. Yeah, Klaus is such a creepy 137 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: vampire and his face is so weird and inflated and 138 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: like almost like a Lance passway. But maybe I'm reaching 139 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: for a connection to me. Actually, Klaus is like the 140 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: art version of Andy Cohen's, the version of Andy Cohen 141 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,599 Speaker 1: I always think of, like Klaus is more sort of 142 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: vampiric than absolutely specifically, because Klaus is just like where 143 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: out of the youth, like let me surround myself now, 144 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: He's not slavic now but whatever it's like. But like 145 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: you know, he's always like, oh, let me get all 146 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: the like teens to like populate PS one so that 147 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: I can feel young and let me slack their blood. No, 148 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: absolutely no, And I feel like he's much more evil 149 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: because he's like art and just like is like kind 150 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: of a Zoolander version of like what a gallery should be. 151 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: But blah blah blah. We're not talking about a man here. 152 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: We're talking about the one and only Marina Abramvich. Okay, 153 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: her childhood was freaking insane. This book it blows my mind. 154 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: I mean, we were texting each other, but I was like, 155 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: this is, as you said, it's an snl skit about 156 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: like growing up in Eastern Block. Yeah, every single page 157 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: is just like my mother beat me. Then she forced 158 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: me to eat the live chicken. Then then the live 159 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: chicken had the baby the sides of me, and then 160 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: I was forced to give birth to the hands and 161 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: they made me sit out in a barn just like 162 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: every My mother looked at the photo of me, she 163 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: cried because she hated having daughters. And then my brother 164 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: got all the attention for his epilepsy, so I tried 165 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: to also have a disease, but no one believed them, 166 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 1: and so I was beaten. I totally forgot about is 167 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: looking at my notes, She's like, I learned my grandfather 168 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: died from eating raw diamonds. You're just like, no, no. 169 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: That is actually one of the most insane parts where 170 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: she's like, my father was friends with the patriarch of 171 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: like whatever, like the oligarch of like the Russian Orthodox Church. 172 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: And then the king of Hugosavia invites like her dad 173 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: and like this whatever head of the church over and 174 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: because they haven't agreed to like combine the Orthodox and 175 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: the whatever churches, he decides to poison them with pulverized diamonds. 176 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: And then she was like, my grandfather died a horrible 177 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: slow death of internal bleeding over the next three months 178 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: diamond diamonds, literally death by diamond the usual kind of 179 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: like oh, grandparents like they like, oh, I walked in 180 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: like wool socks or whatever to school, and she's just 181 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: like a king forced my grandfather to eat. She goes, 182 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: I didn't play with dolls. I played with a shadow. Okay, 183 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: that part I really lost it where you're like really 184 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: like this is a spinal tap of a performance arts. 185 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: Her parents were like communist heroes, but they hated each 186 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: other and they both slept with a pistol literally to 187 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: fight each other. So they were constantly like beating each other. 188 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: And you know, the parents had this insane romantic love 189 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: story where he had been dying in the battlefield and 190 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: she was like a wartime nurse. They're fighting the Nazis 191 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: and she like dragged him off the battlefield and like 192 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: saved him from typhoid or no, he saved her from typhoid. 193 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: And then she found him later in the batfield because 194 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: she was a nurse, right, and she was like carrying 195 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: him and he's dying, and there's a moment where she 196 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: goes her dad is something. He's like cheating, classic classic 197 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: Yugoslavian communist war hero, and the mother pours hot soup 198 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: on him. She's like, you want soup and he's like, yes, 199 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: I want soup, and the mom pours hot soup on him, 200 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: and then they both get their pistols and like fully 201 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: play like Russian roulette, and she's like, damn, y'all. And 202 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: she was. Marina was always getting beaten in the middle 203 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: of the night if her mother thought she was sleeping messily. 204 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: She would come in and be like Marino, wake up, 205 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: you have messed up the sheets, and then beat her also, 206 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: which is so her childhood. They were always like beating her, 207 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: but she was like, of course allowed like culture, and 208 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: they were. She was like, any opera I wanted to see, 209 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: I got to see it. Any piece of sheet music 210 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: I wanted I got it. Any book I got it. 211 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: So they gave her all that, which of course led 212 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: her her desire for art. No, she did kind of 213 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: have this Upper West sidey kind of up bringing. Yeah, 214 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: so she was like we were intellectual. She was like 215 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: allowed to go to Carnegie Hall, and of course, like 216 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: this was part of you know, the beauty and the 217 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: tragedy of like you know so many of these commune 218 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: estates where it's just like a lot of the money, 219 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: and it's like, yes, it's also corrupted, but they're putting 220 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: all this money into architecture, into art, into public performance, 221 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: into they're finding the arts. And that's the thing about 222 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: a dictatorship, as they do they do find the arts, 223 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: and it's like that's sometimes the arts is so like 224 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: state propaganda or whatever, but it's also like fascinating and 225 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: full of rich culture. History and storytelling. The part where 226 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: she loses her baby and then she's like, I didn't 227 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: stop bleeding for three months. I had to sleep sitting up. 228 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: And then she's like finally they take her to the hospital. 229 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: She goes, I was in the hospital for a year. 230 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: It was the happiest year of my life. They literally 231 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: think she has cancer and she goes to hospital and 232 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: she doesn't know cancer. They been like beating her so 233 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: much that she was like malnourished and fucked up. So, yeah, 234 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: mommy and daddy issues. I'll say that when she and 235 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: her friend play Russian roulette literally literally God's pistol, and 236 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: she loads the chamber, shoots herself in the head, obviously 237 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: doesn't die. Then the friend does the same thing. Then 238 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: they're like, let's try it again. They shoot it and 239 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: it like fires off and goes right into Dostoyevsky's The 240 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: Idiot on the show. I know. I'm like, what can 241 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: you can you stop like shooting like fine pieces of 242 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: writing and just mean like, yeah, I'm ten years old. 243 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: We played Russian Roulette. I was like, wait, and then 244 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: did you notice that she still did the Of course, 245 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: the thing that every single celebrity has to do when 246 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: she goes, I was so thin and dull, I had 247 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: to seat at the back of the class, which means 248 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't see the chuckboard, and then I got the 249 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: bad grades, and then I got the beat. Then okay, 250 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: it's like her version of beat. I was so gangly 251 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: and tall and we are my boobs were so big 252 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: but so small, and I was so thin was I 253 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: had to sit in the back of the glass and 254 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: therefore couldn't see the chalkboard. And then of course she 255 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: like describes her outfits as being like she's so embarrassed, 256 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: but like they actually sound so fashion and chic, and 257 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: she's just like, oh, my mother got me these like 258 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: a yellow clog pattern leather shoes that I had to 259 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: wear and I had to like they had to be 260 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: platforms because like I was on even in my walking, 261 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: and I wore like a tailored wool skirt. And you're like, okay, 262 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: kichore anyone. Yeah, she's being I mean, as we know, 263 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: she has this lifelong especially in fashion that she really 264 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: discovers after her in earlier work up, and she has 265 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: her whole steale I got her groove back like era. Yeah, 266 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: when she discovers Yogi Yamamota in Paris, and we'll got there. 267 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: Let's get into the performance. Her work. The work, I 268 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: was a little like just kind of shocked. I mean, 269 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: maybe this is because like the arts were so supportive 270 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: by communism and there were you know, of course the 271 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: seventies performance arts. Vito Country, Chris Burden, who were lighting 272 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: things on fire and you know, shitting in Wall famously 273 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: stapled himself to a Volkswagen. But you're kind of like, yeah, 274 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: the confidence to just six straight up be like, yeah, okay, 275 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna start doing performance art. Let's freaking go. 276 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: She came to it very organically, which I thought was 277 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: sort of a reaction against traditional artforms, against painting. She'd 278 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: been like she because she had been doing painting. She 279 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: went to art school, she went to paint school. She 280 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: was like interested in whatever and do chomped and mcgreen 281 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: and she's like, yeah, she knows what conceptual art is. 282 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: She's like that's cool, but I'm like learning to be 283 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: a painter. But like as she's trying to do this, 284 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: she's kind of getting like bored by it. And then 285 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: she's been like, well, what if I like put texts 286 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: in like a work. And then she's like, well what 287 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: if I like, I don't even try to do a painting, 288 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, And I feel like you're taught that art 289 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: is painting and drawing, and like, yeah, you know, obviously 290 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: now things are much better, but you're like, oh, to 291 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: be a good artist, you have to draw well, and 292 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: like you have to paint well, and you have to 293 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: like paint this apple. And I was like, okay, well, 294 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: I know, I feel like I do want to do art, 295 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: but like I just know I cannot. I cannot paint 296 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: the apple the way it looks right. I Mean it's 297 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: funny because so much of like I think, what we 298 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: think about, what we think about modern therapy, we think 299 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: about undoing like all the trauma of your childhood and 300 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: basically how to stop repeating bad on from your childhood. 301 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: And she's like just constantly like I am going to 302 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: reenact things for my child but but do them as 303 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: performance pieces. And I'm going to use the like trauma 304 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: and the harshness of my childhood to like inform and 305 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: then make my work so much more powerful. Yeah. This 306 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: quote of hers, I mean, this is just so early 307 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: performance are where I think this is when she's literally 308 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: a teen and she goes, I want to record the 309 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: sound of a bridge breaking near a bridge. Yes, And 310 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: so then she's like, let me play the audio of 311 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: this like bridge collapsing like near a bridge, and then 312 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: like the local Communist party is like, oh wait a minute, 313 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: Actually we won't fund this because it's like too scary 314 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: and people are going to freak out. And so you 315 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: see this like you know, this anti authority element coming 316 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: through in her work and she's always wanting to kind 317 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: of like fuck with both the powers that be but 318 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: also fuck with the audience. Is this thing where I 319 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: feel like we've become kind of like naive now when 320 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: you're like listening to her performances and you're like, okay, 321 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: this is like again being so like snl s get 322 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: like you're like breaking right hens and just like walking 323 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: on stilts like where she's she drives a van in 324 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: a circle for sixteen hours yelling numbers and you're like 325 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: you say that, and you're just like, okay, hey, that's 326 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: a joke about performance car. Then you're like, well, one 327 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: who is doing that too? A lot of the time, 328 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: there's a concept that I'm kind of like, okay, that's 329 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: a concept like she has an idea there, like when 330 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: her and Ulea have that piece where like he's walking 331 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: along the wall and then over the course of the day, 332 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: the shadow of the wall is like, you know, getting 333 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: longer and longer, and she's walking along the edge of 334 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: the shadow and they're just walking back and forth along wall, 335 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: along shadow. And it's about procarity, and it's about violence 336 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: and fear, and it's about the sort of like both 337 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: the imagined version and the real version and testing the 338 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: body right. And then all these original pieces are always 339 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: just like yeah, it's also impressive because she's lead just 340 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: doing it for twenty hours and I'm like, Okay, go off, 341 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: and then you know, I mean, this is I feel 342 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: like a very just like the artist quote that she 343 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: says that she's just like, if you are not failing, 344 00:19:54,920 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: then you're not doing anything original. Yeah, she's very and 345 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: she's like and if you're successful, she's successful, then you're 346 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: probably just repeating yourself. I know. I thought was Andy warhah. 347 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: I feel like Andy's not in this book at all, 348 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: and I kind of feel like maybe she thinks he's 349 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: a little bit of a like I think she like 350 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: kind of like sticks, she's like a social climbing faggot, 351 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: which she is. Yeah, And I feel like this book 352 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: is much more like seventies and beyond. So like when 353 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: she does kind of get in more of course to 354 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: like her crew, it's like, of course you think of it, 355 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: it's b York, a honey Laurie Anderson like she's always 356 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: like boys, it's the fucking cool, like post psychedelic. Yeah, 357 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: it's a little more like post punk New York and 358 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: her vacations when she does get more successful, and she's 359 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: always like, oh, would she go to the Maldy. Laurie 360 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: Anderson and Loui Reid went to a small island of 361 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: the Maldives. Lou Read was doing tai chi for seventeen hours, 362 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: and I walked around the island collecting shells, but there 363 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: were no shells because of tourism. So I took a 364 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: small ball to another island and I bought shells, and 365 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: then I scattered the shells on our island, And you're like, what, Also, 366 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: like she's like defines like scary girl at art school 367 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: who's like saying she's not into fashion, and then it's like, well, fine, 368 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: I guess invited me to this fashion shows. I guess 369 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: I have to go. And then it's like in the 370 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: most fab outfit, You're like, okay, but I feel like 371 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: high school when she was like in Belgrade, like having 372 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: her like intellectual coffee group with her like six men 373 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: where they would like play chests and talk about ideas. 374 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: You know, she was being so that girl who's like, 375 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: I'm not interested in shopping in tea parties. Can we 376 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: say she's kind of a pigmy girl, like a guy's girl. Yeah, 377 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: because she's like, I'm not like other girls. I'm not 378 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: yet I drink coffee and talk about ideas and like 379 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: like I'll do a fucked up performance piece where we 380 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: like slam our naked bodies into each other, like yeah, 381 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 1: I don't care about makeup. And then she's always been like, yeah, 382 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: I have a really big nose, Like I'm so crazy 383 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: and fat and ugly and weird and different than sexual 384 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: and I just want to life sex all day. Well, 385 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,239 Speaker 1: also biggest I'm not like other girls. You know. At 386 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: the height of her success with artists is president and 387 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: she's like, someone from this show called Sex in the 388 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: City asked for me to be in the show, and 389 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: so she says no, because She's like, I'm not going 390 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: to be in this television show. I've never heard of it. 391 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: But then she agrees that they can like use her 392 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: name and like have an actor play her. And then 393 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: like she's had like some shop or something like that 394 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: and gets like recognized by like a shop girl, and 395 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: then of course she's obsessed with it, and it's like 396 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: I actually realized that they knew who I was because 397 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: of this show sucks in the city, So that was 398 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: actually pretty cool. So yeah, yeah, she's definitely not opposed 399 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: to fame. She's like, decide the fact what they like. 400 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: We should talk about. Her relationship with Ule absolutely one 401 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: of the most important relationships in the history of art, 402 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: of partnerships, of love, of romance. I mean their stories. 403 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: It's amazing, just it is one of the love stories. 404 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: When I say the love stars, I say Elizabeth Taylor, 405 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: Richard Burton, Yes, Romeo and Juliet, Mark Anthony and Cleopatra, 406 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: Mark Anthony and Jack has and Marina, and they are 407 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: two performance artists. They have a passionate work and love relationship. 408 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: And what I thought was so cool because sometimes I 409 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: think Saxon art like are so together, but I actually 410 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: find them people keep it very separate or so I'm 411 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: fiercely private. She is very like, we need to like 412 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: talk about our sex life because then like that always 413 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: reflects on the art you're making, even if it's not 414 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: a yeah, absolutely, and I totally agree with and I 415 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: love that She's like, if you're not a passionate person 416 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: and like having sex bad and I'm kind of like, yes, 417 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: Creet Man coming for this sex negative generation, and of 418 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: course I'm just like So she basically stopped making performances 419 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: on her own and they only collab. So they meet 420 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: in Amsterdam in like nineteen seventy five, and she's actually 421 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: already married to another man, oh, one of the guys 422 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: from her intellectual group like in Belgrade, and like she 423 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: kind of just fully cheats on him, like she's just 424 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: like I'm going to amster them for eight months to 425 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: like work for the Museum of Ghent and doing installation, 426 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: and then she's just fully fucking Uli and it's like, honey, 427 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: it's before and no one knows, so like no one's 428 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: really keeping tabs on you, and it is so easy 429 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: to have an affair. I know. All the relationships in 430 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: this book are like yeah, everyone's like cheating, but she's 431 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: also psychic about cheating. She's always like I was walking 432 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: down Grand Street and I collapsed. The next day, La 433 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: confessed that he was like with a woman from Syrianum. 434 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: All the psychicory in this book is really like Caputo. 435 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: She's being so spirit as present. Well that part when 436 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: the like the monks come and they like give them 437 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,239 Speaker 1: that ceremony to like bless them with long life. And 438 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: then like six of the other people who are like 439 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: organizing this performance with the monks that they've just done 440 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: in Amsterdam, like don't show up for various reasons, like 441 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: one with sick, one for good, I was like the 442 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: gay one, like one slept in. Then she's like two 443 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: days later, like Uli and I are in Italy, like 444 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: at one of our vacations, we were so poor, but 445 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: we were on the night, which I guess it's like 446 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: European stuff. She's always like, we're broke, but like seems 447 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: like but they have like friends who have houses. And 448 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: then he gets it's this phone call and they hear 449 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,959 Speaker 1: that every single person who didn't come to the like 450 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: monk blessing brunch died in a plane crash. Oh wait, 451 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: and then it gets so creepy and it's literally final 452 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: destination and then they get a no say sorry for 453 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: your loss, but it's postmaxed before the decay, before the 454 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: plane crash from the monks. So I'm like, I'm sorry 455 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: that was not a blessing. It was a curse brunch. Yeah, 456 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: I was like, it was a murder. The monks literally 457 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: had this murder branch. Yeah, murder brunch. And then she's 458 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: just like new chapter. Ula and I were doing performance 459 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: in blah blah blah because by the way, this book 460 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: no detail is spare every day of her life, isn't 461 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: this book so her? Though? I mean I was so 462 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: iral Ula, like he could not be more like an 463 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: annoying art school bro. I mean the polaroids. He literally 464 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: invented being a polaroid girl. Yeah, but like as a 465 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: Polaroi girl myself, like in high school and college, as 466 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: like the most cheesy, basic girl who like thinks she's 467 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: in I did a piece in high school. I remember. 468 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: It was polaroids of my outfits, Yes, and then I 469 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: wrote the total price of the outfit and sharpie on 470 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: the polaroid and then I hung them from a mobile 471 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: not a mobile. It was this kind of reference to childhood. No, 472 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: it's about your this baby, and you don't even know 473 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: you'll be consumed by ribery Street and capitalism and Zara 474 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: and Aldo and Steve Madden and all of a sudden 475 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: that's all you think about. I mean, honestly, that's actually 476 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: genius putting the price right because the infantilism of capitalism. 477 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: I feel like our I mean not just our generation. 478 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: Everyone wants to have money, but you want to be 479 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: poor at the same time. True, and yeah, it's always 480 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: like right now and you're being like, can you believe 481 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: like this costs my life savings? This is Zarah Bell. Yeah, 482 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: I think I may have burned ion. I've burned the 483 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: polaroids a little bit too, Like Okay, that's that's striking 484 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: a memory here, like little burned edges and it's like 485 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: money is burning. Okay, some embarrassing art I made. Let's 486 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: talk about my vinyl purse that I made, where I 487 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: melted two records together and then like nail them and 488 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: then put a chain and I would literally like walk 489 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: around Harvard Square my vinyl person. I thought it was 490 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: the coolest thing did ever happen? That was really cool? 491 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,239 Speaker 1: I mean, that is ultimately just being an Etsy girl, right, 492 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: and before Etsy existed, right, it was more performance art 493 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: in this way of like you were performing the role 494 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: of that secret right before wearing rolling walking around saying 495 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: this is at sea, and I would go between that 496 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: or using my home alone retro home alone lunch bots 497 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: also as a bag. Yeah, that was my vie. Oh god, 498 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: I mean I wanted to talk about a little this 499 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: thing about art for a second because I've always kind 500 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: of thought that there was two kind of ways of 501 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: making art. One way of being the like art is 502 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: raw self expression and it's like it just has to 503 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: come out of you, and it's like you're just such 504 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: an artist that you can help but make it need 505 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: to create. And then the other is this more sort 506 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: of calculated like conceptual art, where it's like in the 507 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: raw category, I put like Nan Golden for example, where 508 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: I'm just like she's just like these are my friends, 509 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: the drug addicts. I'm taking photos of them like this 510 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: is my life, like I'm crazy. And then the other 511 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: is like Cindy Sherman, it's more like calculated conceptual where 512 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: she's like, here's my idea, Like I'm very conscious of 513 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: the market. I'm like trying to like say all these 514 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: things about the market, and like not that Nan Golden 515 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: doesn't have ideas about the market, and not that Cindy 516 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: Sherman doesn't have like friends, raw things she wants to 517 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: express or whatever. Like she totally has friends and she's cool. Yes, 518 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: but it's like the Cindy Sherman, it's process. It's also 519 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: all about the process, yes, and it's much more thoughtful 520 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: and like I definitely think Marina is more obviously on 521 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: the secondary, like calculated side, Like she has this thing 522 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: where she's like she's like some people have the ability 523 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: to make art, but not the energy to put it 524 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: in the right place at the right time. Yes, And 525 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: she kind of acknowledges that she is this like more 526 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: calculated careerist who understands like that everything needs to have 527 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: this architecture around it and the structure around it to 528 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: like make it cool or edgy or interesting or salable 529 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: or pretentious or the things that it needs to be 530 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: to be in the art world. But I will say though, 531 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: she also is a little bit still as a naturalist 532 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 1: where it's just like I feel like she has to 533 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: be walking the Great Wall of China. She like has 534 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: to be. I mean, I think she's also like a workaholic. 535 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: Like when her second husband, Paolo before Artist is present 536 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: and she does some peace and he's like, Okay, can 537 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: you like stop now, like aren't we good? Can we 538 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: go on vacation? And she's like no, Like what would 539 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: I do? Like I have to work. She can't just 540 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: stop and be like great, let's, you know, buy antiques. 541 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: And I think that she kind of has collapsed that previously. 542 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: How believe if I had where I do think she 543 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: is kind of in the middle in this way because 544 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: for that very same reason that you're describing, which is 545 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: like when she's in it, she suddenly is so committed 546 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: and she's feeling it. So it's like the idea is 547 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: coming from this calculated place, but then the performance of 548 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: it is coming from this very raw place. Like when 549 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: her and Ull do after they live with the Aborigines 550 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: for six months, which changed her life and like taught 551 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: her about stillness. They do this piece where they like 552 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: stare at each other across the table, which is very 553 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: similar Artists as present, and like they have to do 554 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: it for eight hours a day and they're doing it 555 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: like whatever. All over Australia, and then the world and 556 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: like he starts to get in a lot of pain 557 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: because yes, he as a man, doesn't have the same 558 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: sort of cushioning in his lower half that she does. 559 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought this up. This is what 560 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: I was talking about about, like men being whiny. It 561 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: is that thing where like when days have a cult sis, 562 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: men have a cold, like it's a very And this 563 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: is not an attack on you, but I'm saying, like, 564 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: you know, they go not at all to retreat back 565 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: to this. You know, I need Mommy to take care 566 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: of me, like I feel like I'm dying. Right, And 567 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: so Ule he gets in all this painness of this, 568 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: right man, But let's just say this, Ule is really thin. Yes, 569 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: Ule is really thin. And and so when we as 570 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: in thin man, when we sit down for hours and 571 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: hours and hours, yes, it does put pressure on our spleen. 572 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: And she's like, I wasn't having such a problem because 573 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: I have a bigger ass than Ule. And this is 574 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: why you can do marathon podcasting and I have to 575 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: take and then like Stephen, let's do another VIP lounge 576 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: because my fat ass can take it. As you're free 577 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: bleading in the iHeart studio in the red room and 578 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: you're just like, no, I need a break, I need 579 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: to walk, and you just stretchle well and he and 580 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: so this is part of the like seed of the 581 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 1: end of the relationship. He's like kind of just like, 582 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: why didn't you end the piece when I got up 583 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: because I was in so much pain? And she was like, 584 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: I would never go I would never end the piece. 585 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: I would never end the piece. The piece is the piece, 586 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: and the work is the work, and you must do 587 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: the work. She is so like committed. Obviously it's Maria 588 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:23,719 Speaker 1: Bovich to like the durational that like Klaus ends the 589 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: artisan is present eight minutes earlier than she wanted to, 590 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: and she was like fucking pissed. Like he congratulates her 591 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: after the three months or whatever and everyone standing on 592 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: the very last yeah, yeah, And I think she wanted 593 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: to do it like the last person to sit in 594 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: the booth and she wanted to do it to the moment. 595 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: And she's like, I am a performance. I had to 596 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: like go with the flow. I had to like yes, 597 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: end it, but like, yeah, I was pissed. But so 598 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: back to like he like gets so sick for a 599 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: year and she's like, we stopped having sex. I had 600 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: to become his nurse. I mean whenever I've like that 601 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: dynamic and you can never come back from that. And 602 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: so she leaves to go teach. They're like, great, we 603 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: need space. She has an affair, comes back, admits it, 604 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: he forgives her. She's like, oh, I thought he was 605 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: the best man in the entire world. Like, I felt 606 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: so guilty, thank you for you know, forgiving me. And 607 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 1: then she sees her friend for coffee and she's like, oh, yeah, 608 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: well he's been living with this like girl since the 609 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: moment you left. And she's like what literally, and she 610 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: felt so bad for like cheating on him. One shaty 611 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: didn't even tell about the fact that he was living 612 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: with this check for six months. He's such a shitty dog. 613 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. I'm like, bitch, your relationship started 614 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: as an affair. Yeah, you were having when you were married, 615 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 1: So what did you expect. What starts in chaos ends 616 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: in kame I was obsessed. So basically, when her and 617 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: Ule break up, after she finds out they literally as 618 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: like a breakup performance. I mean it had been in 619 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: process as they started opposite ends of a Great Wall 620 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: of China and walk towards each other and they're going 621 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: to meet in the middle. And they had this idea 622 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 1: like when they were more in love, that they would 623 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: do this and called the lovers and get married in 624 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,919 Speaker 1: the middle. And then it like over so many years 625 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: of like okay, negotiations with the Chinese government to like 626 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: let them walk on the Great Wall of China, and 627 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: the Chinese are being very duplicitous and like raising the 628 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: price and changing the terms, and it was very like 629 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, when you wanted to this big, huge, like 630 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 1: look at me performance piece and like a communist whatever 631 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: socialist Soviet country like guests, Yeah they're gonna dick you 632 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: or okay, they're not just going to be like oh awesome, No, 633 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: it costs nothing. How insane is it? Though? When they 634 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: get to the middle of the Great Wall, and then 635 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: it is revealed that Ule has impregnated his Chinese translator 636 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: along his portion of the wall in sat literally beat 637 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: more of adults. Also again like no phones, you can 638 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: just be fucking this chick like in random villages in China, 639 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: like along this long ass wall on the wall. And meanwhile, 640 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: of course, like Marina's just like arguing with this guy 641 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: about like Tibetan amnesty for days and days on end 642 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: and like staying in villages, and he's just shocked up. 643 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: And then has a daughter, and then of course, like 644 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: throughout you know, their post relationship, she's always like so 645 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: I did in the vite u, his wife and his 646 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,359 Speaker 1: she's always been like his beautiful Chinese daughter. And then 647 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: a beautiful Chinese girl entered the frame and I thought, wow, 648 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: she is his beautiful Chinese daughter who I hate. Yeah, 649 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: the women that like have taken men from her or 650 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: her family, like she always is like my father's incredibly sexy, 651 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: sexy blonde's second wife who was a judge. She became 652 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: the youngest judge in all of Montenegro. Who would she 653 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: sees them kissing on the street, and she was like, 654 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: then my father saw me. He was so ashamed. He 655 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: never looked at me again for ten years. Yeah, okay, 656 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: but also labying a dog when he screws a gallery 657 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: assistant during one of their openings, and then this was 658 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: so dog. But I mean also like the most like 659 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: artist behind the music, like insane things. So he comes 660 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: to the artists as present and he sits across from 661 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: her and she they both start crying. Yeah, and she 662 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: never touches anyone, but she has to break it and 663 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: they touch each other's hands and it's like this beautiful 664 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: kind of adment of like, we've gone through so much, 665 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: We've done so much work. But then of course, like 666 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: months later, he does like sue her for the twenty 667 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: percent of past works, and you're like, bitch, yeah, shut up. 668 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: So also it's a little less and pappens in the 669 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: movie because they actually were friends at that point. Like 670 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: I thought that was the first time they'd seen early 671 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: fifteen years, but they were actually already on good terms then, 672 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: And like the documentary shows them like hanging out at 673 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: this like really insane huge apartment in Soho that she's 674 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,919 Speaker 1: like renting, and you can kind of see him walk 675 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: in and be a little bit like, damn, this place 676 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: is huge, And I feel like that's when he's been 677 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,280 Speaker 1: a little bit like wait a minute, bit like where's 678 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: my money, because he at one point makes her like 679 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 1: buy him out, but he's so shady. When they get divorced, 680 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: he leaves her with six grand and he like controlled 681 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 1: the money and this being so like and I'm sure 682 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,839 Speaker 1: he left with like a hundred grand, yeah, and she's 683 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: just been like, well, I didn't on anything about the money. 684 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,479 Speaker 1: He controlled it, and I did all the women work 685 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: of sewing our sweaters and making and he controlled the money. 686 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: So I believe that six thousand is what they had. 687 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: And so then like he needs money for like his 688 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: new family, and she like doesn't even have the money 689 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: to like buy out his half or whatever, and so 690 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,919 Speaker 1: like she gets a collector, gets a commission like does 691 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: some peace, so he already has the money from that, 692 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: and then like is suing her for past a twenty 693 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: percent of performances. But I also feel like she's like, look, 694 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: things getting messy and in the end, like whatever, Like 695 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: she did win because she's Marina, and like, I mean 696 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 1: she definitely won, But I think she was always going 697 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: to be someone who cared more about her career where 698 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,399 Speaker 1: it's like she needs to get this out. She's so 699 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: committed to the work, but she's also committed to like 700 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,240 Speaker 1: being really successful in fab and wearing yosi. Yeah, that's 701 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: the thing. It's like she is so heartbroken and she's 702 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: like when she gets like dumped by these men and 703 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: they cheat on her and she's broken for a year 704 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: it's like the career is number one for her. And 705 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: like obviously the Italian artist Paolo who left her for 706 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 1: the sax Anthropologist, like he loved that he was with Marina, 707 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, I don't think 708 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: he could totally take how successful she was. And she 709 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 1: probably could have committed more to the like housewife role 710 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 1: with Ule like earlier in the relationship. But all these moments, 711 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: she was always like wanting to make the work bigger 712 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: and better and like commit more to the work and 713 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: keep going, like the moment in the Great Wall of 714 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: China also where he's tops earlier than she wants because 715 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, the photo will be better, and she's 716 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: like and she was so pissed because she was like, 717 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: you ruin the integrity of the entire piece. I was, yeah, 718 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,919 Speaker 1: I was just like, you're literally walking the Great Wall 719 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 1: of China. The whole point is to walk towards each 720 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: other and be like see each other walking and be like, 721 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: oh my god, it's you. We're walking. But he was 722 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:21,919 Speaker 1: just kind of waiting for her at this scene because 723 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: he was like, oh, this is good, and it's like, well, yeah, 724 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: if you want to go on vacation and take a picture. 725 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: You should have done that, but now you've ruined literally 726 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: years years. Yeah, I kind of was shook by that. Wait, 727 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: I just want to talk quickly about Arrhythm zero, that 728 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: first piece she does, because I think, like what's really 729 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,839 Speaker 1: cool about her early work is how violent it is 730 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: and the threat of violence that's there, which obviously is 731 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:47,919 Speaker 1: inspired by like her growing up in this war zone. 732 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: But like it's this very famous piece where she's at 733 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: this gallery and she has this table full of all 734 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: these objects in front of her, like Caesar's feather knife, 735 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: spring marker, pen, paper, and then like including bullet. Peaceful 736 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: and like the audience can just come in and do 737 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: whatever they want to her for like six hours, and 738 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: then like towards the end of the night, like these 739 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: Italians are getting drunk. And it's in Naples, which y'all 740 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: know is the craziest city if you've seen it, Yeah, 741 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: Naples is famously crazy. It's scrunky. So now I hear 742 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,959 Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's getting it's groove back. And some guy, 743 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,720 Speaker 1: like some creepy little man like does load the pistol 744 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: with the bullet and like is tracing her face like 745 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: with the gun and then like somebody like pulls him 746 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: away and they like get an Italian kerfluffle and they 747 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,879 Speaker 1: like remove him from the gallery. But it's just like 748 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 1: there's this this danger that she gets herself in. And 749 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: the piece with Ule where he's holding the bow, the 750 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 1: arrow of the bow and aiming it at her heart 751 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: and it's like if his fingers slipped, the arrow would fly, 752 00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,439 Speaker 1: she'd be dead. She'd be dead with striker in the heart. 753 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: Coming away from this book, I was like, damn, I'm 754 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: ready to do some fucked up performance art. I was like, 755 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,320 Speaker 1: I'm committed. I want to stand in the middle of 756 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: the street. My favorite thing that she does. I mean, 757 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: this is just so like classic teacher, but I was like, 758 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: I love that when she has her students and first 759 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 1: she makes them like fast for like three months, and 760 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: you're like, go off. And then she has them write 761 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,919 Speaker 1: down a bunch of performance ideas and she says, throw 762 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: out the ones you hate, and then she makes them 763 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: only do the ones that they put in the trash. 764 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: End of like two months, he takes their trash when 765 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: she's like, because these are the ideas that you're afraid 766 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: to do, that's why you threw them out. Because the fear. 767 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,399 Speaker 1: Oh you're so right, embrace your fear. But just one 768 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: more thing about the animals and then we will get 769 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: to signments. Is just part where she's like in a 770 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: tie like chicken. Well, I was about to say that 771 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: chicken when she was like, I came up on street cart. 772 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: This woman was making me so much chicken, chicken wings, 773 00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 1: chicken broth. Everything was chicken. Then I looked down. There's 774 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: chickens running around and like this mother hand with her chicks, 775 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 1: and she's like, the chicks are so happy. And then 776 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: she goes, even if we have a tiny moment of happiness, 777 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: soon we will be in the pot and that's life. 778 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: That's soon we will be in the pot. Soon, we're 779 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: gonna be in the pot, and you're gonna be stew honey. Okay, 780 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 1: pluck pluck, cluck cluck. The Belgrade Institute presents the segments 781 00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: present a present. What does she eat? Does she leave? Okay? 782 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: What does she eat? She like is so like actually 783 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,399 Speaker 1: kind of like vacation mama, and it is so like, oh, 784 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: I'm on a vespa. Is that porch schetta? It's a 785 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: slow rusted pork. Let's just try a little bit she's 786 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: very communal, like my huge reclaimed wood table, so I 787 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: do want to make a salad and the biggest wooden 788 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 1: bowl that I got in Thailand with the largest like 789 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: it in salad tongs that I got in Australia. Yes, 790 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,320 Speaker 1: and everything, of course was like oh and this plate 791 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: of course is from just like a Romanian villager and 792 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,040 Speaker 1: she taught me this recipe. And then she has the 793 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: tie chicken recipe. And she's open to all cuisines, like 794 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 1: she is living with the Aborigines. She's experienced base it's 795 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:24,720 Speaker 1: like scorpions. It's scorpions. It's like she's having blood soup, 796 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: but she's, oh, yeah, where there was like we didn't 797 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,439 Speaker 1: have any bread, so we had the blood. My mother 798 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: would cut her arm and to make blood the soup. 799 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: And then she's also just like being an art bitch 800 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 1: and is like we want every single day. Oh wait 801 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: that part of the book where she goes to Finelli's 802 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,840 Speaker 1: every day, I was like, oh, and tells her Galerus 803 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 1: that she's meeting with like Burmese refugees, but she's actually 804 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,680 Speaker 1: just having this affair with this guy at an Italian guy, 805 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 1: and she's like, yeah, be good a Finelli's every day 806 00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 1: and get coffee and a garden. This is why she 807 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: is a pick me girl, because she's just like and 808 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 1: this is a of course in her like more like 809 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: I live in Soho, Bi York. Vanelli is like downtown 810 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: guy's girl. Era. Okay, what does she wear? Joji? She's 811 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 1: obsessed with. Oh, it's not the givon she show O wait, Cyber, 812 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 1: this is not what does she wear. But when Lady 813 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: Gaga like visits her house and like Hudson, and she 814 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: makes Lady Gaga do the whole fast. Of course it's 815 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 1: like four days because it's for Gaga. But she says Gaga. 816 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: She showed up on the appointed day at precisely six am, 817 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,759 Speaker 1: all business, no makeup, no wig. She went right to 818 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: her room, put her phone in computer away, put on 819 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 1: her overalls, came downstairs and said, let's start. As the 820 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:46,479 Speaker 1: photographer Terry Richardson's two person crew began filming, I told 821 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,640 Speaker 1: Gaga the ground rules for the next four days. There 822 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 1: was to be no food and no talking. She could 823 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: drink water only, and she would do the exercisers. I 824 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,719 Speaker 1: gave her to be the best of her ability. And 825 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 1: then there's like a photo of Galga and Marina not 826 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,280 Speaker 1: facing each other on stools in front of like a pond, 827 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 1: and Gaga learned and Gaga took that knowledge and she 828 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: incorporated it into her which shakes me in how does 829 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:16,200 Speaker 1: she lives? So, yeah, definitely when she's like now presently 830 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 1: like rich and has her house in Hudson and has 831 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:23,919 Speaker 1: her like fabulous laugh. Yes, the Hudson homeowner is right. Yeah, 832 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 1: it's like okay, blankets again, like it's big wooden bowls 833 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: from her travels, and like the couch is like it 834 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 1: can't be that comfortable. Yeah, I mean that's the thing 835 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,759 Speaker 1: is because her work is like literally about not being comfortable. 836 00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,319 Speaker 1: So she has good posture at the end of the day. 837 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: She's not being so like Kendall Jenner cloud couch. But 838 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 1: I do think that like some designer is just putting 839 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: in like kind of an expensive right from France and 840 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: soun like eleven thousand dollars deep couch. That's like maybe 841 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: a little bit harder than some others are used to, 842 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,279 Speaker 1: but it is like a jewel tone. And then like 843 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,439 Speaker 1: I don't think she's so Nancy Myers and everything's cream. 844 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: I think it's like absolutely not. I was imagining actually 845 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,879 Speaker 1: either this like she probably wouldn't do leather, but kind 846 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: of like some really fancy linen dark and like maybe 847 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: actually the couch could just be normal comfortable, but like 848 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,319 Speaker 1: she's so resistant to comfort that she's like this is 849 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: the only place where I allow myself to sit. Yes, well, okay, 850 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,640 Speaker 1: the part when they're reading her Amsterdam House and she's like, 851 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,840 Speaker 1: I had the room just for drinking water because like 852 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,160 Speaker 1: like there's definitely rooms that are completely empty, yeah, and 853 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: there's one cube in them. And then like the main 854 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,279 Speaker 1: hall where she's like having all of these like young 855 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 1: artists that she's grooming, like they are sitting around this 856 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,280 Speaker 1: huge reclaimed wood table and having the big like Burmese 857 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: salad tongs discussions around the big table that's a big bench. 858 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, there is the deep couch, and there's a 859 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,360 Speaker 1: fireplace and there's like again one set of fireplace pokers 860 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: that are from like uh desiccated like Montenegrin palace. But 861 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,240 Speaker 1: you know what, Also there's like not are in the walls. 862 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,279 Speaker 1: Oh you don't think there's because she's like I'm an 863 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: artist and so I'm not putting like I don't know. 864 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,200 Speaker 1: I also think there's just like randomly in a hallway 865 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: a huge photos that Laurie Anderson took. Okay, yes, okay, 866 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 1: there is a huge Laurie Anderson in the hallway. But 867 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: I don't think she's having like a new like she's no, 868 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: I don't think she's like heavily collecting, but like, no, 869 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,160 Speaker 1: there are pieces and of course it's like all pieces, 870 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,840 Speaker 1: like people are like dying to give to her. Yeah. 871 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 1: And then honestly, I think it's just like ASoP in 872 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: the bathroom for sure. I mean she's so Hudson. And 873 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,960 Speaker 1: then she's like lathering the like extra hand cream of 874 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,239 Speaker 1: ASoP and she's like, have you actually tried acep? My 875 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,160 Speaker 1: new friend in Hudson turned me onto it? I mean 876 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,320 Speaker 1: because the thing it's like she basically is like veering 877 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 1: towards like opening an Airbnb. That's like the Marina experience 878 00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,000 Speaker 1: where you go for four days and you fast and 879 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,640 Speaker 1: you like she makes you a solid. It's not so scam. 880 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,920 Speaker 1: At the end where she was like raising so much money, 881 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 1: I was like, wait, do you own Basilica? I was 882 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,400 Speaker 1: getting confused, and then she was like, oh wait, I 883 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,520 Speaker 1: actually don't need to convert this massive building and has obsesses, 884 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,360 Speaker 1: like I can just be hired and go to places 885 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: because I'm literally Marina and like teach people to fast 886 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,600 Speaker 1: and like throw out their ideas. Yeah, like, which is 887 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 1: the artist's way. It's just getting hired and trouble insane hotel. 888 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:35,319 Speaker 1: Who are you? Okay? I got nervous that I was 889 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,720 Speaker 1: like the father in law who was clutching a pillow 890 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,399 Speaker 1: for hours and dying and being so like, I'm only 891 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,080 Speaker 1: comfortable holding the pillow like this. But then I also 892 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,359 Speaker 1: was like really feeling that because you have like a 893 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: cough right now. Yeah, But then I was like, am 894 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,080 Speaker 1: I uli who? Also? Because I did throw out my 895 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,759 Speaker 1: back recently when he was reaching for something. I'm responding 896 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,359 Speaker 1: to the health crises in this absolute way, I think 897 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:02,319 Speaker 1: because of what I'm experiencing right now. But maybe I'm 898 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,040 Speaker 1: wait the gay guy who has the stuffed animal that 899 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 1: she's creeped out by he brings with him everywhere, and 900 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,719 Speaker 1: she was like he was creepy, Okay, that's you? So 901 00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,960 Speaker 1: who am I in the book? I mean, like, I 902 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,959 Speaker 1: don't think I'm Paolo her like second Italian husband who's 903 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,560 Speaker 1: so motorcycle and like making art out of rubber. I'm like, 904 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,080 Speaker 1: am I Marina, because like I'm pushing myself and like 905 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,799 Speaker 1: eating coffee grounds like for the performance of it all. Yeah, 906 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,080 Speaker 1: I mean I think in some ways you are really 907 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,000 Speaker 1: really committed to the work. Like when I think of 908 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,799 Speaker 1: like some of the people who have committed, I think 909 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,240 Speaker 1: you Marina and Chris Farley, I think those are my idol. 910 00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,680 Speaker 1: I you know, I strive too. I came away with us. 911 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,120 Speaker 1: I was like, I need, you know, to be more Marina, 912 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:53,279 Speaker 1: because when you fall in the performances, when you stopped committing. No, absolutely, 913 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 1: And I think in her whole philosophy is like when 914 00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,680 Speaker 1: you start to feel the pain, and for her it's 915 00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,239 Speaker 1: often physical pain and before moments, but like that is 916 00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:03,560 Speaker 1: when the work starts to get really interesting. That's what 917 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,160 Speaker 1: she kind of learned with the averaging is is like 918 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,920 Speaker 1: you suddenly start to let go and be truly present, 919 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,520 Speaker 1: because that's when you let go of all of your 920 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 1: pretensions and fears and everything else and you become just 921 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,520 Speaker 1: this body in this space and this time when you're 922 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:19,240 Speaker 1: just like reacting and responding to what's around you. Oh, which, 923 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,359 Speaker 1: honestly I give this book even though it took so long. 924 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm honestly giving it a nine loaded pistols out of ten. Yeah, 925 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:35,680 Speaker 1: I absolutely and giving this nine objects, including pen fatter blood, 926 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,640 Speaker 1: the commitment. I'm not giving it a ten honestly because 927 00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,040 Speaker 1: of the last ten pages a book kickstarter. And also 928 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 1: I was just like fucking done with this book. Yeah, 929 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,000 Speaker 1: I think she could have edited, but I also appreciated 930 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,720 Speaker 1: the fact that the book itself became this piece the performance, 931 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,200 Speaker 1: and she left nothing out, like we were there till 932 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,399 Speaker 1: the minute she stopped typing set to the printer. Even 933 00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,840 Speaker 1: in the format, she took me out of my usual 934 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,239 Speaker 1: like sense where it's like I'm usually listening to an 935 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:04,759 Speaker 1: audiobook and I look at it and I can see 936 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,759 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I'm already fifty percent through. Great, and 937 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,919 Speaker 1: I start to feel this sense of accomplishment. I start 938 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,399 Speaker 1: thinking about what I'm gonna do next, and like this 939 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,120 Speaker 1: book refuses to let you do that. You've been sitting 940 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,160 Speaker 1: there and you're still just in Belgrade, and you're like 941 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,800 Speaker 1: seven percent of the way through, and you're just meeting 942 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,840 Speaker 1: every single like horrible like death that's happened in Belgrade 943 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:26,640 Speaker 1: or ever, and it's only in the nineteen sixty one, 944 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,560 Speaker 1: and you're like, Oh, I'm never gonna be done with it, 945 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,799 Speaker 1: and like I just appreciate because I think I, you know, 946 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,879 Speaker 1: have this immage of her. Is this just like kind 947 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,520 Speaker 1: of just serious performance ars what she obviously is, but 948 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,600 Speaker 1: like I don't know her ability to spill tea not 949 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,359 Speaker 1: in a gossipy way, but just like in a way 950 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:45,040 Speaker 1: that she's like I'm just saying what happened, and like, yeah, 951 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,520 Speaker 1: there's such a non judgmentalness to it that I think 952 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,759 Speaker 1: is so beautiful and like she's just describing things that 953 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:56,560 Speaker 1: are happening in and that's beautiful stuff that happens. So woh, yeah, 954 00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,080 Speaker 1: we're at the end of it, club kids, what's next. 955 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go stand on train tracks and just see 956 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:06,879 Speaker 1: what happens. I Am going to walk around the associated 957 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:13,640 Speaker 1: supermarket naked, bashing into people and ask everyone for giner. Yeah, 958 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,120 Speaker 1: it's a real joy. I do incorporate some of her 959 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:22,799 Speaker 1: teaching into your life and fast. We're basically inspired. We 960 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:33,960 Speaker 1: love art so literally bad Best Bust, Best Celebrity book 961 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,520 Speaker 1: Club was Stephen and Lily is a performance piece originally 962 00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:43,840 Speaker 1: performed in nineteen seventy six, and this is a reperformance 963 00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,360 Speaker 1: of that performance. And it was produced and edited like 964 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:53,040 Speaker 1: Darby Masters. We did a performance together once in nineteen 965 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,520 Speaker 1: eighty four. I thought she had died, but she came 966 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,520 Speaker 1: to life. I guess again. A booze Far was the 967 00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:05,280 Speaker 1: super rising producer editor. We were married and I left 968 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:10,759 Speaker 1: him for his brother. Christina Everett is the executive producer. 969 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:15,160 Speaker 1: She is actually my mother. We haven't spoken in eleven years. 970 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:21,279 Speaker 1: This theme song was produced and performed by this Russian artist, 971 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,600 Speaker 1: Stephen Phillips Horst. He usually only works with xylophone, so 972 00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,680 Speaker 1: this is the only song he has actually sung and 973 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,439 Speaker 1: we have the rights to it. The artwork was done 974 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:35,560 Speaker 1: by Teddy Blanks. We studied together in nineteen to seventy four. 975 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,640 Speaker 1: We did work with goats. Anyway, he made the art. 976 00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:40,680 Speaker 1: You must check him up. I think he has a 977 00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,480 Speaker 1: show in Canada right now. This podcast was got created 978 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:49,040 Speaker 1: with product projects. We were also married and still married 979 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 1: to multiple men there. Anyway, we have a new thing 980 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,279 Speaker 1: call day Patreon. It's where you give money and it 981 00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,839 Speaker 1: will give money to our performance institute. So Patreon dot com, 982 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:05,040 Speaker 1: slash CBC the pod, please donate and we can perform 983 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,400 Speaker 1: anywhere from Serbia to California.