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Speaker 1: Hey, hey, hey, oh my boys, we're back. Oh kind of,

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Speaker 1: but we're still black.

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Speaker 2: We're brown.

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Speaker 1: Ambition and ambition and ambition. This is I know, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was singing when I was walking up here. I

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Speaker 1: was thinking, goodbye, farewell, happy to say up.

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Speaker 2: To up to see.

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Speaker 3: I was going with the boys to men all the

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Speaker 3: But then I was like, when I was trying to

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Speaker 3: pick the music for your farewell series, I'm trying to like,

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Speaker 3: you know, have a theme for social and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with Fiance's end of Time, okay, because

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Speaker 3: it's like, oh me, your friend. There's a lot of

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Speaker 3: sexy stuff. But I was just like trying to just

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Speaker 3: focus on the lyrics that were.

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Speaker 1: Like yes, well but yeah, you guys have not already guessed.

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Speaker 1: This is Mandy's and I officially our last episode to

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Speaker 1: get there as Bran and Bision.

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Speaker 2: It's not the last episode of Brown and Vision.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly not the last time I'm going to be on,

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Speaker 1: but like the official like.

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Speaker 2: Like last episode of US as like.

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Speaker 3: I don't know the words I thought I was going

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Speaker 3: to have them, Well that's kind of what we're here

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Speaker 3: to do, ye, Like this was this the origin of

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Speaker 3: this episode so that we're doing a special series for Tiffany,

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Speaker 3: because I wanted to just make her as uncomfortable as possible. No,

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Speaker 3: but I just thought it you deserve It's been nine years,

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Speaker 3: you know, and I wanted to go out really acknowledging

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Speaker 3: the journey and the growth not just of us for

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Speaker 3: each other, you the podcast in general, and ever since

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Speaker 3: you know, how many months has it been since you

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Speaker 3: told me that you were not going to be three months?

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Speaker 3: Three believe in three or four months? Yeah, And I

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Speaker 3: had I mean, the feelings were so big in the beginning,

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Speaker 3: and I think one of the things and then you

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Speaker 3: had the month of November that was off, and there

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Speaker 3: were just some moments where I was unsure of like

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Speaker 3: for the first time, and because we've been so comfortable

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Speaker 3: with one another and our friendship is so like strong,

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Speaker 3: but for the first time, I was like, should I

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Speaker 3: call her? Should I ask her about this? Does she

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Speaker 3: want to hear about the pot? Does she does she

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Speaker 3: want to hear from me? Like there was this there

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Speaker 3: was this like hesitation and then I brought it up

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Speaker 3: in therapy and my therapist was like, what did you

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Speaker 3: like ask her if she has a problem I was like,

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Speaker 3: what you mean, talk to her about it? Okay? And

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Speaker 3: then I immediately just started thinking about doctor Joy and

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Speaker 3: what if because this felt like a really honest reflection

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Speaker 3: of what it feels like in a moment where you are,

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Speaker 3: you know, going into this new chapter as friends and

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Speaker 3: doctor Joy. You wrote the book on Sisterhood. I had

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Speaker 3: her ring here, literally.

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Speaker 2: What's in a grab mine?

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Speaker 3: I have once a library book. I don't know where

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Speaker 3: my actual cop but anyway, it's a library book and

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Speaker 3: it's way overdue. Don't come for me Westchester Library System.

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Speaker 3: But Sisterhood heals the transformative power of healing and community.

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Speaker 3: And so I was like, what if doctor Joy came

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Speaker 3: back and just sort of had a convo with us

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Speaker 3: about this sisterhood and how we can because you, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's just that's where the idea came from. And thank goodness,

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Speaker 3: everybody was into it. And so doctor Joy is here

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Speaker 3: with us. Welcome, doctor Joy, Thank you on Therapy for

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Speaker 3: Black Girls.

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Speaker 4: Thank I'm very excited to chat with you.

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Speaker 1: Bill.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if you remember our last time,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Joy. When you came, it kind of sparked where

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Speaker 1: we are now. So it's funny that's full circle. Well

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Speaker 1: not funny how I have, but funny awkward.

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Speaker 3: It's your fault. It's actually your fault. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: What happened, well, this is actually an intervention for.

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Speaker 1: Me, because yeah, we have. What happened was I had

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Speaker 1: just come back, maybe not just but I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't remember how long after my husband passing away, I'd

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Speaker 1: come back and you were coming to talk about your

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Speaker 1: book and such. But I said something that you made

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Speaker 1: Mandy pause to listen to. I said something to the

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Speaker 1: effect of, like, well, honestly, the only reason why I

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Speaker 1: came back to Brown and Bish and Mandy is because

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Speaker 1: of you, you know, because of you, your friendship, your love,

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Speaker 1: your care. Like Mandy was such an amazing friend during

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Speaker 1: my well, I mean, I'm never gonna stop grieving, but

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Speaker 1: during like the peak, I always to talk all the time,

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Speaker 1: for hours and hours and hours. She sent me books

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Speaker 1: that I read, and I just said, if there was

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Speaker 1: you know, if you weren't here, I wouldn't have come

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Speaker 1: back because not I mean, I love our Brown and

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Speaker 1: Bitch and listeners, but it was Mandy. Because I think

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Speaker 1: Mandy had told herself that in order for me to

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Speaker 1: be here, she had to perform. Oh, I've got to

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Speaker 1: do like if I don't do the production, if I

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Speaker 1: don't do this, Tiffany's only here for like what I

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Speaker 1: bring to the table as far as output. And I

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Speaker 1: was just like she had not realized that, like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm here because I like I tell my people I

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Speaker 1: love you because I love you like and I don't.

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Speaker 1: She had not really, I didn't know that she didn't know,

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Speaker 1: and Mandy did not know how I felt. And I

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Speaker 1: was expressing it casually, but you made me stop and

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Speaker 1: you said, Mandy, did you.

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Speaker 2: Hear what she said?

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Speaker 1: Did you hear what she said?

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Speaker 2: And it was like wait what?

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Speaker 1: And that was the first time like where I really

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Speaker 1: started to think, like, wait, I'm here for Mandy. So

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Speaker 1: do I think that I won't be friends with Mandy

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Speaker 1: if I'm not here? So then it started to kind

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Speaker 1: of like unravel for me, like, well, why am I here?

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Speaker 1: Why am I doing Brown Ambition? Can I still have

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Speaker 1: my friendship with Mandy without Brown Ambition? If that's the

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Speaker 1: thing that brought me back, is that what I'm afraid of?

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Speaker 1: Like maybe Mandy has her own fears, but maybe my

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Speaker 1: fear was that if I don't do Brown ambition I

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Speaker 1: won't have my friend. So it opened up kind of

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Speaker 1: like just this different way of thinking. And so now

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Speaker 1: here we are full circle because I really started to

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Speaker 1: dive deep into that and I realized that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I did stay for Mandy, but now I'm leaving for me,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that's okay.

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Speaker 3: It's fine, whatever, it's fine.

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Speaker 1: So dog, if we would love for you to walk

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Speaker 1: us through, like what is it like? So we're not

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Speaker 1: breaking up as sisters, as friends, but this is a

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Speaker 1: breakup of sorts, and so not just for us, but

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Speaker 1: for those listening. You know, well, one, what is the

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Speaker 1: I don't want to say the best way, but I

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Speaker 1: guess the best way to navigate those things, those feelings

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Speaker 1: like Mayday and I had to have like a legal

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Speaker 1: conversation the other day and it was so awkward. And

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Speaker 1: then also too what to expect on the back end,

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Speaker 1: like and how to how to manage whatever those feelings

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Speaker 1: and thoughts and things that come up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so we want to jump We will jump into

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Speaker 4: all of that, but first I want to do some

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Speaker 4: grounding here because I had not gone back and listened

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Speaker 4: to our first conversation, but I did listen to the

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Speaker 4: conversation you all had when you announced to the audience

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Speaker 4: that Tiffany was leaving. I mean, so one, I think

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Speaker 4: that y'all have just beautifully modeled like what this looks

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Speaker 4: like to have this very difficult public kind of separation

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Speaker 4: in some ways, like you all have talked about it,

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Speaker 4: and so just kudos to y'all for doing that and

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Speaker 4: like having these really really hard conversations. And I took

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Speaker 4: some notes and listening to that episode, and I love

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Speaker 4: that you have brought this idea up again, Tiffany, like

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Speaker 4: I stayed because of you, but I'm leaving because of me, right,

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Speaker 4: And so I think that that was such a powerful statement,

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Speaker 4: and I think it really taps into like what stories

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Speaker 4: are we telling ourselves about the people we are in

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Speaker 4: relationship with? Right, So this idea of like, oh, Mandy

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Speaker 4: is doing all these things so that Tiffany can show

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Speaker 4: up and then Tiffany and sounds like your story was

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Speaker 4: you know, I have to do this thing because this

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Speaker 4: is how I maintain my friendship with Mandy, which I

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Speaker 4: think you both have realized was not the truth. And

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Speaker 4: that doesn't mean that the story doesn't play out in

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Speaker 4: our heads. And so I'm really glad that y'all are

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Speaker 4: continuing to have these conversations because it is really difficult,

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Speaker 4: and I think the lead time I think is also important. Right,

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Speaker 4: So it wasn't like y'all just came on December first

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Speaker 4: and said, Hey, by the way, this is Tiffany's last,

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Speaker 4: you know, couple of episodes, like you have given each

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Speaker 4: other and your audience three months to kind of process

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Speaker 4: what it looks like to say goodbye. And Mandy, because

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Speaker 4: we talked before on our previous session, I knew that

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Speaker 4: you didn't love like the touchy feeling, like let's go

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Speaker 4: deep into our feelings, but you have sat with it, right,

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Speaker 4: And so even on that conversation that you all shared,

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Speaker 4: like you were like, okay, I guess we got to

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Speaker 4: get into it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I did not want to do that. That's quickly.

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Speaker 3: It felt quick.

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Speaker 2: Like it really didn't, but you did it, and it clearly.

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Speaker 4: Felt very uncomfortable for you. I mean, I definitely saw

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Speaker 4: you kind of wanting to distance, like, Okay, I don't

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Speaker 4: really want to feel all of this, but there have

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Speaker 4: been big feelings because your business partnership also grew into

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Speaker 4: a very very intimate friendship and some very difficult times

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Speaker 4: in both of your lives, and so I think it

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Speaker 4: is not lightly that you are doing this separation now,

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Speaker 4: but I think doing it with such care and I

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Speaker 4: think that that will make all the difference in terms

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Speaker 4: of how you all are able to transition and kind

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Speaker 4: of navigate this transition together.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't told Mandy at the beginning I

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Speaker 1: think we should share, and I know Mandy was like, hudu,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I understood that. But my fear was

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Speaker 1: that if we didn't say then people would create a

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Speaker 1: story about us that wasn't true. And not that I

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Speaker 1: cared where people said, but I just valued our friendship

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Speaker 1: so much. I didn't want anyone to think, like, MANI

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Speaker 1: it tif you don't care about each other, or there's animosity.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, this is such a beautiful friendship and

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Speaker 1: we've been modeling for nine years and I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to now not do that and then leave people to say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I heard that, like you know, really many Aatiffy,

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Speaker 1: you don't really It's like, no, you get to watch us.

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Speaker 1: We were just out the other day at this event

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Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, and it was just it's good for people

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Speaker 1: to see that it's possible to uncouple if you will,

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that something happened like many didn't

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Speaker 1: do anything, you know, like I didn't. You know, people

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Speaker 1: keep asking like, ooh, is there because there's some opportunity

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Speaker 1: there isn't. You know. It just feels like it's time

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, I know it sounds so because easy

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Speaker 1: to but because I'm moving to Zimbabwe and this this

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Speaker 1: is why it's like, no, I'm still here. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: new on my play other than the regular stuff that

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Speaker 1: I do as janis to it just feels like it

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Speaker 1: was kind of time and I was kind of holding

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Speaker 1: on for reasons that had nothing to do with the

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Speaker 1: podcast or really me even so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't think, you know, I'm kind of

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Speaker 3: it scares me what it would have been like if

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Speaker 3: we had if you had made this decision even a

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Speaker 3: year ago, because I went through such a pivotal year

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Speaker 3: in my mental health journey, doctor Joy, You're the first

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Speaker 3: one to introduce the concept of group therapy to me,

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Speaker 3: and I started a group therapy practice earlier this year

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Speaker 3: for with DBT skills, and I changed my therapist. I

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Speaker 3: really did some difficult like I understand drug and alcohol addiction. Now, like,

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Speaker 3: these feelings suck and when you really sit in them,

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Speaker 3: and I wasn't turning to those types of vices to

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Speaker 3: deal with difficult feelings in my life. But I wasn't

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Speaker 3: dealing with them, and like I wasn't really like sitting

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Speaker 3: with them and sitting and the discomfort in the way

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Speaker 3: that I've practiced and it really is a practice. And

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Speaker 3: so I'm really grateful that the timing worked out the

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Speaker 3: way it did, Tiffany, because like, I know so much

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Speaker 3: more about the way that I respond to things and

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Speaker 3: with my insecure attachment style, which really, you know, it

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Speaker 3: really came up for me the year before when I

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Speaker 3: had that big friendship breakup and I had had to

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Speaker 3: come on the other side of that. So, tiff when

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Speaker 3: you came to me, there was a story I would

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Speaker 3: have told myself, which would have been, this is just

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Speaker 3: another friend who decided I'm not enough and I'm alone

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Speaker 3: and all this. But I didn't because I understood that

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Speaker 3: that narrative even though that maybe I felt it or

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to say that I didn't cross my mind,

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Speaker 3: but I was able to like talk back to it

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Speaker 3: in a way that was so helpful in me, like

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Speaker 3: learning how to cope. And I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: the discomfort I had with like telling the BA fam

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Speaker 3: it really stems from like, are they going to think

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Speaker 3: that I'm not good at enough? Like our is BA

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Speaker 3: fan gonna think that? It's like, you know, Tiffany and

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Speaker 3: I don't know, like just not interested in doing the podcast,

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Speaker 3: like doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Really believe in it.

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Speaker 3: And those were some just like uncomfortable feelings that I had.

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Speaker 3: Even after we had that episode, I would wonder, I'd

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Speaker 3: find myself wondering like does she have another podcast? Is

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Speaker 3: it like someone else? Like is it another woman that

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Speaker 3: kind of thing? And is she just not telling me?

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Speaker 3: And I would have these like and that's not a

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Speaker 3: kind thought to have about Tiffany, and that's not your

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Speaker 3: character at all. But they were there, you know.

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Speaker 1: Too, I just and I think that's what I was

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Speaker 1: afraid that you were gonna think. But then that's why

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Speaker 1: I tried to share with you in general, I've been

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Speaker 1: struggling with budgetie. Then remember I was just telling you

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Speaker 1: it was in Brooklyn, like, ugh, I took this yeah

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Speaker 1: November oft and candidly I didn't want to go back.

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Speaker 1: There's something happening that there's just a larger transition that

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Speaker 1: but Branni Bishin is a part of It's not Brannibishion

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Speaker 1: just I am. For so long, I've been to the Budgetisa first,

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Speaker 1: Tiffany second, and like Jirell passing away, broke something inside

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Speaker 1: me that said, I actually don't want life to go

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Speaker 1: that way, that I want to put Tiffany first. And

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Speaker 1: I'm struggling. I felt like a toddler, like knocking things over,

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Speaker 1: struggling to figure out what does that look like, you know,

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Speaker 1: because I've always just said, well, I got to put

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Speaker 1: the business because we've got to pay bills. So I

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Speaker 1: am struggling. You know, Bananni Bishion is like honestly a

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Speaker 1: small part of it. So there's a larger hole. I've

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Speaker 1: changed my you know, I mean, I brought out my

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Speaker 1: business partner.

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Speaker 2: That was huge. Jabron and I started the Literature Academy together.

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Speaker 1: It's no longer now we're even transition transitioning the Academy

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Speaker 1: out to something else. There's all these transitionings happening, but

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Speaker 1: ultimately the goal of the transition is to find Tiffany

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Speaker 1: and to live from that space. And so that's if

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Speaker 1: there is any thing that's I don't want to say

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Speaker 1: that's left being unset, but that's what I'm struggling to do.

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Speaker 1: And Barana Bishion is part of that, but not really.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, well, who are the other Tiffany?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, and I'm the other woman? Yes? Who is Tiffany?

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Speaker 2: What do I like? What are my you know? What

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Speaker 2: do I enjoy?

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Speaker 1: And that's why I took November off. I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: noticed myself and when you said, Mandy, I really related

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Speaker 1: when you said I can understand why people drink and

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Speaker 1: do drugs, like for the first time I understood in November,

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Speaker 1: you know, everything like everything was so quiet since I

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Speaker 1: took off.

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Speaker 2: It's the month that Drell passed away.

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Speaker 1: And doctor Green told I struggled last year, and she

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Speaker 1: was like, well, let's plan for the next year. This

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Speaker 1: year that don't work because you know, you know you're

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Speaker 1: gonna struggle, and I did, and I turned off from

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Speaker 1: social media and I turned off no work, no emails,

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Speaker 1: no nothing, and I couldn't manage the silence. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I must have been listening to a podcast morning, noon

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Speaker 1: and night in the shower, going to bed, waking up,

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Speaker 1: and I was asking doctor Green, I can't turn the

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Speaker 1: noise off, and she's like, well, what are you afraid

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Speaker 1: of in the silence?

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Speaker 2: And that is what.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to get to because I still have not

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Speaker 1: turned the noise off totally. So I am turning off

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Speaker 1: the noise and areas of my life to get to, Like, Tiffany,

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Speaker 1: what is it that who do you want to be?

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Speaker 1: You can't do it with all the stuff that you

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Speaker 1: put on your plate. It's brand ambition as much it

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Speaker 1: needs to assisted. It's like that's those are fillers for

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Speaker 1: not living life, you know, because you're struggling, and so

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 2: It's not that I want to leave.

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Speaker 1: I just I just want to be okay, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not okay what that looks like? You know, Like I

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Speaker 1: knew my life before. It's like a Merritith is amazing, man,

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Speaker 1: I've got this great business. I felt like I was

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Speaker 1: so clear and now I'm just like I'm just I

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Speaker 1: feel like I fall into this black hole and there's

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Speaker 1: no end to it. I'm just flailing, you know, And

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Speaker 1: so I'm trying to figure out how do I how

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Speaker 1: do I figure how do.

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Speaker 2: I find it?

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't even know what I'm looking for

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Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just having a hard time. So I

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Speaker 1: just thank you for the grace that you've given me

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Speaker 1: with brand ambition, you know, because I know that like

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Speaker 1: how important it is, and that's why I hung out

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Speaker 1: for so long because I haven't been okay. But I

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Speaker 1: just was like, oh, man, I can't leave Mandy, you know,

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Speaker 1: like that's what I just kept thinking. I can't leave Mandy.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just like but then I just reached a

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Speaker 1: point where I was like, I can't anymore. You know,

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Speaker 1: I can't anymore. So I'm still trying to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, therapy helps a lot, obviously, but I understand

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Speaker 1: now because to me, the noise was like, oh, if

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Speaker 1: I was a drinker, I'd be drinking if I did alcohol,

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Speaker 1: Like if I did drugs, I'd be doing drugs, you know,

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Speaker 1: Like because I was constantly with the noise, and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is your this is your coping mechanism to not

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Speaker 1: have to sit in silence because I don't know what's

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Speaker 1: going to come up.

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Speaker 2: And I still have it because I'm.

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Speaker 1: Still really afraid about what's going to come up, but

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Speaker 1: I know I have to create that silence you know,

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Speaker 1: by creating space, and so I'm forcing myself to do

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Speaker 1: so by my making these hard choices.

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Speaker 4: I thank you, then, Tiffany, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Joy, you know for me, it's so much. Oh,

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Speaker 3: go ahead, go ahead. No, I was just gonna I

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Speaker 3: was going to ask about what if you have any

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Speaker 3: advice for someone who's like Tiffany and I have been

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Speaker 3: like that multiple times, where you are afraid to sit

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Speaker 3: down and think the thoughts are like, get them out.

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Speaker 3: I have journaled and that has helped. But what for you?

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Speaker 3: Have you seen help?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I think both of those things, right, And I think

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Speaker 4: you know, when you're thinking about like a grief experience

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Speaker 4: like you've experienced, Tiffany, Right, I don't think anybody would

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Speaker 4: be surprised or blame you if you just completely fell

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Speaker 4: off the face of the earth to take care of

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Speaker 4: yourself right now, right like, and your support system will

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Speaker 4: still be there to take care of you. And so

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Speaker 4: I think so many of us, especially as black women,

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Speaker 4: as women of color, like work is the thing we

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Speaker 4: throw ourselves into because it is socially acceptable, right, Like,

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Speaker 4: you don't get penalized for being a workaholic in the

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Speaker 4: same ways that you might you know somebody who was

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Speaker 4: using substances, and so for many of us it is

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Speaker 4: a very healthy in presence, in presentation vice to throw

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Speaker 4: ourselves into. But you can see that internally you are

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Speaker 4: falling apart. And so even though it is you know,

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Speaker 4: on the outside it looks okay, it is not okay inside, right,

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Speaker 4: And so I think being clear with ourselves and having

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Speaker 4: the support of a mental health professional, like both of

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Speaker 4: you have talked about, and being okay to kind of

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Speaker 4: be in silence with them and allowing them to kind

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Speaker 4: of guide you through the silence, and to know that

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Speaker 4: you're not alone, right, Like, I think that is what

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Speaker 4: makes the difference, is knowing that whatever this scary thing

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Speaker 4: is that you are so afraid of, somebody will be

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Speaker 4: there with you to kind of help you pick up

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Speaker 4: the pieces and you don't have to face this thing alone.

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Speaker 4: And so journaling helps, talking to a therapist helps, I

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Speaker 4: think really just getting more comfortable with silence, right, So

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Speaker 4: eventually turning off one of the podcasts, right, so maybe

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Speaker 4: they're still a morning and an evening podcast, but maybe

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Speaker 4: at lunchtime you get a little bit more comfortable with silence, right.

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Speaker 4: I think all of those things are really helpful when

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Speaker 4: we think about, Okay, what is this thing I'm avoiding?

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Speaker 3: And we have been taught to avoid our feelings, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: feelings aren't.

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Speaker 4: Typically productive, and you know, if they are very big feelings,

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Speaker 4: it makes it so that you might not be able

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Speaker 4: to go to work or you can't be super present

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Speaker 4: with your family, and so it is normal, I think,

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Speaker 4: to kind of push that away, but it isn't really

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Speaker 4: healthy for us, because feelings are meant to be expressed

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Speaker 4: and to be filled.

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Speaker 3: What are some questions that you think are good to

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Speaker 3: ask yourself to get because I don't know, tiff Like,

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Speaker 3: for me, sometimes it's like what's the matter, But then

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Speaker 3: I'll sit down and just start asking myself questions. But

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Speaker 3: doctor Joy, there are any specific ones that you think can

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Speaker 3: help if you're just someone who's feeling like something's not

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Speaker 3: right but I'm not sure what. So one thing I

420
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Speaker 3: think can help is to have a more regular journaling practice,

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Speaker 3: because then journaling really helps you to track patterns. So

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Speaker 3: one of the questions I would ask is like, when

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Speaker 3: have I found myself feeling this way before?

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Speaker 4: Right? And so, like Tiffany mentioned like she knows November

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Speaker 4: is going to be difficult for her, Like typically it's

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Speaker 4: a difficult time, and so in November, what kinds of

427
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Speaker 4: things do you need to do to take extra good

428
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Speaker 4: care of yourself? Is there something that has happened? And

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Speaker 4: sometimes there isn't, But sometimes there is some feeling right,

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Speaker 4: like maybe some exchange at work or a difficult family

431
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Speaker 4: situation we're dealing with. Like if we can clear all

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Speaker 4: of the noise and like get down to it, sometimes

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Speaker 4: we can pinpoint it. The other thing is that sometimes

434
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 4: there isn't right, And I think that that's difficult for

435
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 4: people because the uncertainty and the ambiguity, because if you

436
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:07,640
Speaker 4: know what it is, then you can kind of fix it.

437
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,919
Speaker 3: And say the A word. I can't stand on the ambiguity.

438
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,919
Speaker 3: My god, my therapist keeps throwing around. I'm like, doctor,

439
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 3: stop it. I hate that word.

440
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 4: But so much of life is ambiguous, right, Like I

441
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 4: think me like the very black and white, and we

442
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,199
Speaker 4: don't do well with the grave, but so much of

443
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 4: life is actually in the grade. And so I think again,

444
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 4: you know, kind of being okay that you may not

445
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 4: have all the answers, but you maybe do have the

446
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 4: resources to deal with whatever comes up. You have the

447
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 4: support you know, you have things to help you to

448
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 4: figure out what this grey area looks like?

449
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 1: Okay, and then how can we lean into it? Like

450
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: I struggle with you know when you're the person ever

451
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 1: goes to to like you got it? You know, can

452
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 1: you help me? And so I'm better at I used

453
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,120
Speaker 1: to be, but like leaning in and asking for help

454
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 1: from your people, like how what does that look like?

455
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,239
Speaker 1: How can we be better at doing that? Well?

456
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,400
Speaker 4: I think that that is what you did here right

457
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 4: by saying, you know what, I just don't have it

458
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 4: anymore right now. I love you and I still want

459
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 4: to have our friendship, but I just don't think I

460
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 4: can show up in this way anymore. But I also

461
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 4: think it is about your circle kind of knowing who

462
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 4: you are and knowing to just step in, right. So

463
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,679
Speaker 4: it sounds like Mandy was very obvious. It was obvious

464
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 4: that she needed to kind of just swoop in, you know,

465
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,439
Speaker 4: right after Jarrell's passing and kind of be there with you,

466
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 4: offering you support, offering you resources. So I think also

467
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 4: being intentional about paying attention to our friends to know

468
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 4: if there's somebody who's not likely to ask for help.

469
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 4: But I also think you practicing right, like in small

470
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 4: ways like hey, can you, you know, pick up a

471
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 4: dinner for me? Or can you bring me to the mechanic?

472
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 4: I need to bring my car to the shop. Whatever

473
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 4: the small things are. So that you get more comfortable

474
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,919
Speaker 4: with the asking, that then opens up opportunities for you

475
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 4: to make the bigger ask.

476
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 3: Could you just come I'm just going to come over

477
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 3: and just sit on the couch. Just come sit with

478
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 3: That's what I love. Just come watch me full laundry.

479
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 3: You know that's my love language. T if there was

480
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 3: something that you said that you think and that when

481
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 3: you told me the news, and something that I've really

482
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 3: been thinking about since then because I felt the opposite

483
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,439
Speaker 3: and I know how damaging and difficult that can be.

484
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 3: But when you told me that you wanted to leave,

485
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 3: you said that. My response was like, what's really helpful

486
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 3: to you? Because I said, you know, I'm feeling this

487
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 3: is very challenging for me, but I just want you

488
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 3: to know I love you. It's fine, you know we're

489
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 3: going to be fine. Something to that effect.

490
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 1: No, you said something, it was just it was the

491
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: perfect response. I was scared to tell Mandy because one

492
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, I don't want her to think

493
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: I'm leaving because she did something I didn't want to

494
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: damage this relationship that I valued so much. And also

495
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 1: to telling her meant that the thing that was inside

496
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: is outside. Now you know you said I'd been avoiding you.

497
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 1: We were supposed to talk about something, and Mandy is

498
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: so perceptive. I had been avoiding her. We were talking

499
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 1: about something other, something.

500
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 3: That can we talk about brand Ambish tomorrow?

501
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: Yeah? And I was like yeah, and Mandy was like, wait, okay,

502
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: and then you wrote like, cause it was at night,

503
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: you text like, as I said, can we talk.

504
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 2: About brand and Bission tomorrow? You said sure? And you

505
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: said what is it about?

506
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 1: And I didn't reply because I was like and she said,

507
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: are you breaking up with me? And I was like,

508
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: I didn't reply and then she said, oh, that's just

509
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: my anxious, my insecure attachment. Let me stop. I know

510
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: you're not breaking up with me. So there was so

511
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: much happening. My heart was bumping because I didn't know

512
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: what It was ten o'clock and now I'm like.

513
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: Maybe she thinks she'll think I was asleep, so.

514
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: I didn't say anything, which I'm sure was the worst.

515
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: And then the next day I chickened out. So Mandy

516
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 1: called me and I don't think I picked up, and then.

517
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 3: I can't stand that ambiguity, I know.

518
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 2: Then I called her back.

519
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 1: I was like, so you know how you said I

520
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: was breaking up kinda Meanwhile, I did not know that

521
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: Mandy was at her neighbor's house helping her with helping

522
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: them with the birthday party.

523
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: So she's like blowing up balloons and I was like,

524
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 2: we can talk about it later, and you were.

525
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: Like wait, wait what until I told you then like

526
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: this is gonna be my last year. You know, obviously

527
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: we could talk about it more deeply later, but I

528
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: just wanted you to know because I didn't want to

529
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: like drag it out. And then I heard Rio, her son, say, Mommy,

530
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: what's wrong. I was like god, because obviously he picked

531
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: up on the fact that she was upset, and I

532
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 1: just was like, oh my god. So then we hung up,

533
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 1: and but you text me back right away and said Tiffany,

534
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: I love you and what was best for you. I'm

535
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: not okay, but that's okay, and I thought.

536
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 3: I found the text. I said, I'm okay, I want

537
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 3: to talk more, but of course love you and want

538
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 3: you to be happy. I'm just so sad It's okay.

539
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 2: Yes, And so it was perfect.

540
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: It was a perfect balance between the support I needed,

541
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: of which is I love you because I love you,

542
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: you know, but also acknowledging that like this is a

543
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: lot and I'm sad, but that's okay too, Like these

544
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: things can exist in concert together.

545
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 2: So it was just that's the key.

546
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 3: So that's what I've learned from that interaction, because I

547
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 3: have people who are close to me who don't give

548
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 3: me that space to have to make to like share

549
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 3: my feelings. Like when I I'm uncomfortable with something and

550
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 3: I bring that to someone's attention, it really sucks when

551
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: they spiral and it becomes about how they feel about

552
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 3: your feelings, and like there are situations, doctor Joy where

553
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 3: it's like I wish there was more lessons and more

554
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 3: coaching around tolerating people's uncomfortable choices, decisions, feelings and not

555
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 3: immediately making it about how they impact you and then

556
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 3: like bringing the conversation there or like focusing because sometimes

557
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 3: people just want to share their feelings. Because one of

558
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 3: the things that especially in my circle, is there doesn't

559
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 3: seem to be a lot of space or tolerance for

560
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 3: feelings that make other people uncomfortable, you know, Like and

561
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 3: I have stopped hiding a lot of my feelings this

562
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 3: past year and just saying the thing out loud, and

563
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 3: the reaction has been very like, well, we can't tolerate that.

564
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 3: So Bite and I have had to be like on

565
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 3: the other end, being like, okay, let's try this again.

566
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 3: I don't want to be dishonest about the way that

567
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 3: I'm feeling, but I just I'm so proud that I

568
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 3: think with Tiffany and I like we have a space

569
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 3: where you can I can tell you that I was

570
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 3: jealous you had another podcast on the back burner, and

571
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: like you're not gonna be like, why would you think that?

572
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: It's more like, okay, I can you can. You can

573
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 3: tolerate that I had that uncomfortable thought, and like, just

574
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 3: recognize it was just a thought on my end, you know,

575
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 3: And that to me is really really powerful and so rare.

576
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 3: Do you agree? What do you think talking to me?

577
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 4: As Yeah, you are spot on right, Like these difficult

578
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 4: conversations in friendship and I think again we get a

579
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 4: little bit more comfortable having them in romantic situations, but

580
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 4: because we don't place the same like credence on friendships.

581
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 4: We don't think we need to do all this mushy,

582
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 4: touchy feely like awkward conversation, but it absolutely needs to happen.

583
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 4: And I think the way that both of you approach

584
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 4: the situation this conversation also is an indication of like

585
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 4: how much work you've also done in therapy, you know,

586
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 4: because Mandy, you talk about like this insecure attachment, and

587
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 4: you know, I could see a less maybe healed, therapized

588
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 4: version of you that would have made this all about you,

589
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 4: right that like you would have taken it so personally

590
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 4: that she was leaving and would have but outwardly would

591
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 4: have made it okay, right, like, oh it's okay, I

592
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 4: understand you know, but what you did was acknowledge Tiffany's feelings.

593
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 4: Woul also acknowledge that this was difficult for you too, write,

594
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 4: And so I think that that is how we want

595
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 4: to approach it, not that your feelings are more important

596
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 4: than mine, but that our feelings can coexist. And this

597
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 4: is a messy, hard situation for both of us, and

598
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 4: like it's okay for us to feel like to navigate

599
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 4: and feel it out together, which is what I think

600
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 4: y'all have done.

601
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 2: And it's funny because I think I thought about that.

602
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, look at therapy because like the

603
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: less therapized version of Mandy, Yes, probably would have taken

604
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: it more personally, but the less therapized version of me

605
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: would not have said it because my issue is, yeah,

606
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: I don't I don't set boundaries like I don't like

607
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: I worked so hard to crack that cold because Manny knows,

608
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: I'll just I'll just eat it, you know, until like

609
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: I explode. I think Doctor Green was like, is it

610
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: like the dragon, but you know there's like the three triangles,

611
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 1: like I will, I will, I will keep things in

612
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: until they're unkeep interval. And then twenty years later, I'm like,

613
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: I burned it all.

614
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 4: Down, yes, you know, because I didn't have something.

615
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I didn't know how so that I thought

616
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,479
Speaker 1: to myself, Wow, that this is an example of like,

617
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: because you're right a therapy because I could set the

618
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: boundary where I said, this is a safe space to

619
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: tell this person that you hear so much about you

620
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: can tell you know, because honestly, many it didn't. When

621
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: I was proud about myself, it didn't. I wasn't holding

622
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: it for years and years and years. When I told

623
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: you it probably was maybe like like a week when

624
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: I really was like, wait a minute, this is really strong,

625
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, before I reached out to you and told you,

626
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: so I didn't hold it in. So I thought, Wow,

627
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: we couldn't have had this conversation you and I a

628
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: year or two ago with you know, without all the whatever,

629
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: without all all.

630
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: This harm, you know, because of the work that had

631
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: to be done externally.

632
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: Talk to Joy. What about people who are approaching a

633
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 3: difficult similar conversation with a friend or with the partner,

634
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: but they're not as healed as tiff and I have

635
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: worked so hard to be mm hm.

636
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 4: So I think that this is where grace comes in, right,

637
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 4: So I would I would still encourage you to have

638
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 4: the tough conversation, and I think we talk about it

639
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 4: as one conversation, but clearly this has been multiple conversations

640
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 4: for y'all. Right, So there was the one the first

641
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 4: time that Tiffany shared, but y'all have had multiple conversationsys then.

642
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 4: And I think that that is important for people to

643
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 4: know that there may be one conversation that has to

644
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 4: start a larger dialogue, but don't think about like having

645
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 4: to get it all right in that first conversation, right,

646
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 4: So there may be it may be very short, yes,

647
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 4: like you said, right, like, Okay, we can kind of

648
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 4: quickly talk about this, but I have more feelings I

649
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 4: need to sit with for myself before we talk again, right,

650
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 4: And so allowing yourself the time for both of you

651
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 4: to kind of process what's been said, what needs to happen,

652
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 4: and to note that you're not going to handle it

653
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 4: perfectly because emotions and feelings in humans are not robots,

654
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 4: and so we're not gonna do it perfectly, right, but

655
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 4: you can't do it together. And I think to think

656
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: about the fact that you two are kind of figuring

657
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 4: out the issue. It is not you two against each other,

658
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 4: which I think can sometimes happen in couples but also

659
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 4: in business relationships and friendships. Is that you turn against

660
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 4: each other as opposed to turning against the problem that

661
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 4: needs to be fixed and figured out. And so I

662
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 4: think remembering that y'all are on the same side and

663
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 4: that the relationship can continue even after like something like

664
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 4: this happens, but this does need to be handled with care,

665
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 4: which I think again y'all have modeled so beautifully.

666
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I always say, like me and you,

667
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 3: that's the endgame, like that's the core, that's the goal,

668
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 3: so everything kind of flows through that. So yeah, I mean,

669
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 3: I think had my reaction been more emotional and like

670
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: big and I had said like things terrible things that

671
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 3: can happen, yeah.

672
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: It would have been okay too.

673
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 4: Like it could have been y'all ended up in this

674
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 4: place right now, but you could have come back a

675
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 4: couple of weeks months later and said, you know what,

676
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 4: I feel like. I reacted very big, like can we

677
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 4: talk about this, and there still could have been time

678
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 4: for Like it.

679
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 3: Takes a very healed person to give that grace and say,

680
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 3: you know, I'm going through literally the same situation, not

681
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 3: with Tiffany, but someone has said something really hurtful to me,

682
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 3: and I was like, girl, your money true, I'll talk

683
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 3: to you next week. And I just had to acknowledge.

684
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 3: On my end, I could take the words and make

685
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: them feel I.

686
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 4: Could be like, well they said this, and da da

687
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 4: da da, But.

688
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 3: I'm so proud because in my healed version, I'm like,

689
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 3: I see why they said that, and I'm gonna let

690
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 3: them come back in a week and we'll talk about

691
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 3: that and I'm not even gonna mention it, like it's

692
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: because it's not true. That's that doesn't come so easily.

693
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,239
Speaker 3: And I think if you're someone who's like, who is

694
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 3: even the person who had that tough reaction, like sometimes

695
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 3: you think, well I said it, now, I gotta like

696
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 3: double down.

697
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm mm hm, yeah, because I'm afraid to go

698
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 4: back right, Like I say this thing that is unco

699
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 4: back and bull right, like I can't come back from this,

700
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 4: but most.

701
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: Times we can.

702
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 4: Right, Like it's okay to kind of give each other

703
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 4: multiple chances to kind of get it right, especially when

704
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 4: you have invested in somebody and it is somebody that

705
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 4: you care about. It's okay to kind of come back

706
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 4: from a mistake. That's possible.

707
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think Mandy, between the two of us,

708
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: just just created it over these years, a safe space

709
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: to show up honestly but imperfectly. Yeah, because I know

710
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: at first I was like, oh, you know me, I'm

711
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: an external processor.

712
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: I was like, I think we should share.

713
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: I think we should tell the audience ahead of time,

714
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: and Mandy was like, oh, I don't want to, and

715
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: I was like okay, then I thought, well, this is

716
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: really hard for Mandy.

717
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 2: So remember I.

718
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: Told you, I said, we'll just follow your lead because

719
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: I thought, yeah, brown a bishing is going to be

720
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: yours alone, and so I don't want to push what

721
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: I think how it should go. That's only gonna last

722
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: a few weeks or a month, you know what I mean,

723
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: Like oh, because of course I was like, well, I

724
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: want this and I want this, and I said yea, but.

725
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: At the end, this is going to be Mandy's babies.

726
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: Tiffany, you have to take a step back and follow

727
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: what's going to make her feel comfortable, like rolling out.

728
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: Certainly you can share, but if you decided not to

729
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: do this kind of you know what we've done, then

730
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: I would have been like, okay, okay, this is.

731
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to follow your lead.

732
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: So I'm glad that you know, you came to come

733
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: to this space like more of more than a happy

734
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: medium of like okay, let's share. But if you didn't,

735
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: that would have been okay too, because you're allowed, you know,

736
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: because you know, at first I was like no, but

737
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: this is what I'm like, Tiffany, have cute for you

738
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: because you get you know, you've been processing Mandy's just now,

739
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: like these feelings, whether you've known it, have been bubbling inside,

740
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: so you've had all this time to navigate. Mandy has

741
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: a short, short, short window, so you can't come to

742
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: the table like well now that I've done all my

743
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: research and studies, you know, and so I just wanted

744
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: to give you this space and grace to do this

745
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: in a way that felt good to you, but also

746
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: in a way that you could make the transition, you know,

747
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: into like your own version of Brown Ambition, unencumbered by

748
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: like this is what Tiffany wants because in the end,

749
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: it's you.

750
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: Now.

751
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: I just yeah, but I just because you really taught

752
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: me how to create safe space to be because I

753
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: remember what you told me when I was away and

754
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: you were like, if you don't come back to Brown Ambition,

755
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: like it's okay. You don't understand how much I needed

756
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: to hear that. That's why I came back, because I

757
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: was so scared to like, because I didn't even know

758
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: if I was going to come back to Budgetista.

759
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: Remember I told you. I was like, I think I'm

760
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: gonna quit it. I think I'm gonna quit everything.

761
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: And you were just like, if you don't come back

762
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: to Brown ambition, It's okay, and it gave me such true.

763
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 3: I just thought I would just end it. You know,

764
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 3: the idea of continuing was weird. I had just emphasize

765
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 3: about it, you know, I hadn't. Yeah, And even when

766
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 3: you told me, I was like, I don't, I hand,

767
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 3: I don't even know what that would look. I just

768
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: never really pictured it. Probably should have.

769
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,479
Speaker 2: No, no, because then when you said I but.

770
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: It gave me such a sense of relief. And it's

771
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: the reason why I came back, because I didn't feel

772
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: like I had to, and I knew how much that

773
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: meant to you. I was like, Wow, Mandy is saying

774
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: man like, she's such an amazing what a safe space

775
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: this is. She's saying, Tiffany, you actually get to choose

776
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: and be a human being. You get to be Tiffany

777
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: don't have to show up professionally. And it just it

778
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: was exactly what I needed. Even when I told you,

779
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I think I told you, like, yeah,

780
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna get Progenisa.

781
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: You said, what did you say? You said, Oh, I

782
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 2: forget what.

783
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 3: The words that you should push you?

784
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: No, you said, you have so much more life to

785
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: live or something like that, because what I really was

786
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: saying was and I guess you recognize that I'm just

787
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: about to give up on everything. And it wasn't about

788
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: the business. It was just like you heard me just

789
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: saying all the things that I care about I'm not

790
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: going to do anymore, and you were just like, no, Tiffany,

791
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: there's more like take a break if you need. But

792
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: I think you have so much more more to be.

793
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: I think you said you have so much more to

794
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: get done and to do, and I remember I was like, no,

795
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: I think I'm just gonna sit down in my rocker

796
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: and wait this thing out. That's how I felt. So

797
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: I just thank you for the safe space that you created,

798
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: and it just gave me like what I needed to

799
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: come back. I don't I'm glad I came back. I

800
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: wanted to come back. I didn't feel forced to come back.

801
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to come back, and I'm glad that I did.

802
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: Now I'm leading to a place of I don't feel

803
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: that sense of like I have to burn everything down.

804
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: I'm leaving because I'm just like, Okay, Tiffany, what is

805
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: the next? I don't know what's next for you, but

806
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: I know you need to clear your plate in order

807
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: to see like what's next, you know, And so I'm

808
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: not running from I'm heading toward.

809
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 2: If that makes sense. It's a different energy.

810
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 4: And I'm really glad that y'all chose to say goodbye

811
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 4: the way that you did. I mean, because yes, it

812
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: is the two of you, but it is also this

813
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 4: incredible community that y'all have created, right, And so I

814
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 4: think giving them a long lead time of saying goodbye

815
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 4: is also something that goes a long way in creating

816
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 4: trust and containing making sure that your audience trusts you, right,

817
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 4: because if you just had a week and y'all were like, oh,

818
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 4: this is our last episode kind of thing, then your

819
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 4: your audience is like, wait a minute, what's happening?

820
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 2: Was going on?

821
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 4: And so the saying goodbye was as much about like

822
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 4: honoring Tiffany and like honoring what this has been as

823
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 4: it was about like letting the audience know that they

824
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 4: have truly been a part of this. And so practicing

825
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 4: how to say goodbye, which we don't do well with

826
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 4: as a society, I think is something that y'all again

827
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 4: have modeled here and kind of giving people time to

828
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 4: adjust to the idea that Tiffany's not going to be here,

829
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 4: that they are in a loan for the ride for

830
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 4: what this new iteration of Brown Ambition will look like.

831
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 4: So I'm really glad that y'all both got to a

832
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 4: place where this felt like something you wanted to do.

833
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that timing was everything I was gonna ask for.

834
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 3: Joy Like, Okay, so the next chapter of our friendship

835
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: is like, I'm over here during my podcast and Tiffany's

836
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: doing her thing, and I think, Tiffany, what I've what

837
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 3: I've been wondering is like, especially now that you're opening up.

838
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 3: I know this month was November, was you know, your

839
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 3: time off and a really like emotionally like charge period

840
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 3: for you, And I think, as your friend, I'm just wondering,

841
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 3: like what you need at this time if so much

842
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 3: of my world is going to be like Brown Ambition,

843
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 3: Like whether it's like I don't want to talk about

844
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 3: none of that stuff. I don't want to know about

845
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: the guest you're booking or the plan you have. What

846
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 3: I really just need is such and such, Like what

847
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 3: would you say that is so that I can just

848
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: kind of move forward knowing No.

849
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear about it, because when we talked

850
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: the other day, was telling you about one of my mentees.

851
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: You're like mentor me.

852
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 2: I'm like Mandy. We talk all the time.

853
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: I don't about business mentis and I'm just like no,

854
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: I'm excited just like Mandy money makers, just like when

855
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: you left corporate. Second only to like my interest in

856
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: personal finance is business. I love to hear about like,

857
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's something I just find it so fascinating,

858
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, like how people navigate business, the choices that

859
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: they make. You know, I've had success and multiple businesses,

860
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: and for me, one of the things I believe in

861
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: every blessing there's excess, and so in my excess, I

862
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: like to give them that overflow. And so no, I

863
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: would love to hear. When you were telling me the

864
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 1: plant around a vision, I got so excited. They were

865
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: so unique and different. That's not what I thought. I

866
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: didn't know what I thought you were to do. But

867
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: I'm like only Mandy, you have like such an amazing

868
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: brain for business, and so no, I would love to hear.

869
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 2: I don't feel any kind of way.

870
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: You know, you can share as much or as little

871
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: the choice as yours, but know that you can't do

872
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: too much because I my sister Tracy with her published

873
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: publicist business, you know, like I love to hear about that,

874
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, my sister Carol with her her contracting business.

875
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: Like so I just just so you know that, like, no,

876
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: I am here to hear about it, and you can

877
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: share as much. I don't feel, you know, any kind

878
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: of way about hearing about brand and bish like oh

879
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: the baby I left behind Now, I think that I'm

880
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: excited to see what you do with it and excited

881
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: to see the shift and for it to grow and

882
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: to be reimagined.

883
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, No, as far as for me, like what

884
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: do I need personally.

885
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: For Tiffany, I don't know, just to make sure that

886
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: we maintain and which I think we have been, you know,

887
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: maintain our our friendship, that we still talk and not

888
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: just talk about business, you know, but like you know,

889
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: just like what are you doing?

890
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, you want to come here?

891
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: You want to do you know, like like how we've

892
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 1: been that like beyond business this, you know, just talking

893
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 1: as to girlfriends like we've done so that and.

894
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 3: I think I could use more of that. I think,

895
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 3: ask what I want, Ask what I want?

896
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna ask you this. I was just thinking, like,

897
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: I think that's really it.

898
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, keep.

899
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 3: Me in the look to get to know the boys,

900
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 3: and I want you to like be more a part

901
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 3: of my.

902
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: Punt Remy was so freaking cute when you finally met

903
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: the baby, I know, he.

904
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: Was just a dog.

905
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, Mandy, this boy is kidnappable.

906
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: He was just like, hey, y'all take me with it's kidnappable.

907
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 3: Don't try to go for rio, but the baby he

908
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 3: will come because they say can you hold.

909
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: Him while I go to the restroom. I was like,

910
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: is he gonna allow that? He was like, I don't

911
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 1: know that, lady anyway, Hey now, Mom, I'm like, wait, comfortable, okay, yeah, okay,

912
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 1: getting to know the boys better.

913
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 2: What else do you want for me?

914
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: Just like just you know, I don't know. I'm kind

915
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 3: of looking forward to just like catching up about like

916
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 3: stuff that's not business y, you know, and just like

917
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 3: chatting about the personal stuff. Yeah. I just think more

918
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 3: of those I love when we used to, like you'd

919
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 3: be going on your morning walks and we just kind

920
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 3: of like catch up. So much of it was like

921
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 3: business related, But now I'm kind of like, oh, we

922
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: can just chat about like your boy friend life and

923
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 3: suburb and on just like whatever family drama stuff like that.

924
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 4: And I think my interesting period. I think of you

925
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 4: all getting to know each other in different ways again,

926
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 4: which I think.

927
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 2: Is really cool.

928
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 3: What are some like pitfalls people can make after a

929
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: partnership ending like this, Doctor Joy.

930
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 4: I think not regularly checking in with one another, or

931
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 4: making assumptions like like you just did, Mandy, like asking like.

932
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: Hey, do you want to hear about the business?

933
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 4: Are you not so checking in with one another about

934
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 4: like what the new boundaries feel like, and making that

935
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 4: an ongoing process because what she feels right now may

936
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 4: not be what is okay in a year, So like

937
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 4: knowing that you'll kind of constantly renegotiate the boundaries around

938
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 4: certain things. Although I don't see this ever being like

939
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 4: oh I never want to hear about brand Brown ambition again,

940
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 4: Like it very much feels like you know, you can

941
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 4: share how much you want or however little you want.

942
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 4: So I think that that is one of the pitfalls.

943
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 4: And I think the other thing is just like not

944
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 4: being intentional about keeping the relationship tight, right because you

945
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 4: were naturally coming together to record the podcast, to do

946
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 4: business stuff, and so it could be really easy now

947
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 4: to kind of fall off the calendar. But maybe you

948
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 4: have the same time where you would have been recording. Now,

949
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 4: y'all schedule that as like a walk or like a

950
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 4: time to catch up with one another or time to

951
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 4: go do something. Don't let it like just fall off

952
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 4: the calendar because it's not work anymore.

953
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 3: Monday at one.

954
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: See, I think the morning works are good.

955
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: Actually, like I just have it because it's so cold,

956
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: So you haven't.

957
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: Really missed it because it's just I haven't been walking.

958
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 4: I was curious to hear how the legal conversation, So

959
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 4: that was something that y'all mentioned, and you don't want

960
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 4: to share too many details, but it did sound like, oh,

961
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 4: is this going to be attention kind of thing, like

962
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 4: how are they going to navigate that conversation?

963
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: Well, honestly, I so it was. I called a friend

964
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: of mine who also her and her best friend had

965
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 1: a podcast and they are still friends.

966
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 2: But she was like, oh, I can't do the podcast.

967
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: Anymore, but I still want to be your friend, and

968
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: so I asked her, what, you know, how did that go?

969
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 1: She said it was tricky and you know, they had

970
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: some it was some contention, but I asked her about

971
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: the legal aspect and she said, well, you know, like

972
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: if it's not contentious, you know, you know, it might

973
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: be wise to get an attorney to represent Brown Ambition,

974
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: not us individually, and so just to draw up something simple.

975
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: And she said, but decide ahead of time what you're

976
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: wanting or don't not wanting, And so I did. I

977
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: was like, you know, this is not I don't need

978
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: to be bought out. I just want to give my

979
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: ownership to run Ambition to Mandy. The trademark, you know,

980
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: to Mandy. So she said, well, those things will make

981
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: it easier. And so the attorney. The contract is really short,

982
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: it's like what is like three pages. But what I

983
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: liked is that it was so vague. She was like, no, you'

984
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: all have to fill in like what you know, we're

985
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: not badling so many and ours. Yeah, because it was

986
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: just kind of like because then you start going down

987
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole for something for example of like how

988
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: long will old episodes with me beyond it still be

989
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: a part of brand Ambition. So we came up with

990
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: a scenario like, well, what if two years from now, Mandy,

991
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: somebody comes and says, I want to buy a brown

992
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 1: ambition for you for ten million dollars.

993
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: Ye're like, that's my baby, but she for sale? Then

994
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 2: what happens?

995
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: So we had to talk through like you know, like

996
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: so you know, would I you know, certainly not fifty

997
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: to fifty, but what would there be something there for me?

998
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: And also too, like one of my concern my number

999
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: one concern maybe maybe Mandy, you could share yours that

1000
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: the contract helped us to unearth is that I don't

1001
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: want anyone to own my name, use in likeness and

1002
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: voice like that. I trust Mandy not to have me

1003
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: selling cold forty five, you know. But I said, but Mandy,

1004
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: what if you're not here? So if you were to

1005
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: sell it or something happened to you and you're physically

1006
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 1: just not here, then what I want to make sure

1007
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: that I have an easy way to revoke.

1008
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: My name use in likeness and voice, you know.

1009
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: And so that was my number one thing that it was, like, Mandy,

1010
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: just have it, have it, I will finde it over

1011
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: to you. But if you're not here, what happens to

1012
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: like those episodes, because people will put ads on them,

1013
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: they'll say you know something that I might not agree with,

1014
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: and so that's what we kind of worked out.

1015
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: And Mandy, what was your number one? I remember you

1016
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: told me your number one? Like kind of legal what

1017
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 2: was it?

1018
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 3: I don't really have I mean, that's the thing. I

1019
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 3: mean with the legal stuff, it's just ugh, I just

1020
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,479
Speaker 3: it's a lot of trying to think of the worst

1021
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: case scenario and then protect us against that and like

1022
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 3: thinking about you dying or me dying and what happens.

1023
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 3: That has been really uncomfortable for me. So I've been

1024
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 3: feeling kind of like, oh, just just give it to

1025
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 3: the attorney and let them like come up with stuff.

1026
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 3: I've I've been struggling with like that because I think

1027
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 3: the big stuff is who owns the IP and who

1028
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: owns the back catalog, and I think we have answers

1029
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 3: to that, and then the rest of it is like, Okay,

1030
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 3: I don't think I'll ever want to sue you, so

1031
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 3: like I.

1032
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 1: Don't know, Yeah, it's just more so yes, like it's

1033
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 1: really like if something happens to either one of us,

1034
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: because Mandy and I always have all from the beginning

1035
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: of around ambision, have always navigated well, what do you think,

1036
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,280
Speaker 1: what do you think and come up with a solution.

1037
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: But what if I'm not navigating with Mandy and what

1038
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: if she's not navigating with me?

1039
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: So that is what you know.

1040
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: I remember my an attorney friend of mine told me

1041
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: like the best piece of advice when it comes to

1042
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: a contract. He said, this is why you should have contracts,

1043
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: even with friends. He said, you can do whatever you want.

1044
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: The contract is there for when you can't agree, then

1045
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: you do what the contract says. So let's just say

1046
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: you say every day on Tuesday, you guys are gonna

1047
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: wear purple, and we decide, girl, we don't like purple anymore,

1048
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 1: we're going red. And then for whatever reason, ten years

1049
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 1: down the line, I want red, I want blue. Well,

1050
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: the contract says purple. So we go back to what

1051
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: the contract says. And so that's what we're trying to

1052
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: hedge against. That, Like, as long as me and Mandy

1053
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 1: are here, we navigate, like, yeah you can use my face,

1054
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 1: Yeah you could post me in best of you, girl,

1055
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: I don't care. But then if Mandy's not here and

1056
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: she sold it to whomever, wait wait, wait, what you

1057
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: know that person can't do whatever they want with mine?

1058
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 1: And then you said likeness. So that's the part, and

1059
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: so we have one last conversation with you. We worked

1060
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: out most of the stuff because, like Maady said, it's

1061
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: pretty easy. I'm just signing over. But there's some like

1062
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: legally stuff that about name us and likeness that we

1063
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: want to tighten up that we don't know the words for.

1064
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: So we're going to have like a joint conversation with

1065
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: the attorneys so she can now that she can hear

1066
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: from both of us, finish up, and then it'll be

1067
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 1: signed by before the end of the year.

1068
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, the legal stuff.

1069
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: It went pretty smoothly, I'd say, especially after our conversations.

1070
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: After a while we just started swirling down.

1071
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: But what if there was a rabbit on Tuesday, We're like, oh,

1072
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 2: let's get off the phone.

1073
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 3: Man, were like process out loud, and I'm just like.

1074
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 2: Yes, we were making up scenarios.

1075
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: That was like, you know what, I think we've gone

1076
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: too far. So but I'm glad for I'm glad that,

1077
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: you know, because it is important that if you are

1078
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: in a professional relationship that you have to have a

1079
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: contract in place.

1080
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: Sister, brother, cousin homever.

1081
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: So I think that I'm glad that that's we had,

1082
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: We had our contract. This is an amendment to our

1083
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: Brain Ambition contract. So yeah, but I'm I'm glad that

1084
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: it's going to be put in place, so one less thing,

1085
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:02,959
Speaker 1: you know, I have to think about a worry about.

1086
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 3: The big thing for me was making because Tiff, you

1087
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 3: weren't even gonna like you were just like, yeah, you

1088
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 3: can have everything, And I was like, wait, don't you

1089
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 3: you should get a royalty or like a residual from

1090
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 3: future from future revenue for a certain period of time,

1091
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 3: just because like it felt really wrong to me, or

1092
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: it felt a little bit too generous to me that

1093
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 3: then you wouldn't you know, leave with some sort of

1094
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 3: like cut of the revenue moving forward, because it is

1095
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 3: nine years a body of work, you know, and we

1096
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,959
Speaker 3: do make money on the back catalog, so that part

1097
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 3: is a bit more ambiguous. It takes more than just

1098
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 3: us to figure out, like on the math side, how

1099
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 3: that would happen. But that was something that you weren't

1100
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 3: originally going to ask for.

1101
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: No, because I think at first I felt like that's

1102
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: my punishment for not staying.

1103
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: That's what I was kind of telling myself, like I

1104
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 2: don't just leave every punishment and.

1105
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: Then you said that that was like true but no,

1106
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: But to me, I'm like, no, let mean the trademark,

1107
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: the business itself, signing it over. I'm fine, but I

1108
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,399
Speaker 1: didn't want to ask for that because I just kind

1109
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: of felt like, well, you're the one leaving. It's like,

1110
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, you're breaking up with your partner, and you're like, well,

1111
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave my couch because I'm the one leaving,

1112
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: So you're not deserving if you will up taking anything

1113
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: with you. And so I'm glad that you said that

1114
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: because you're right, not even for the money, but just

1115
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: for the you know, like, Okay, this is the right

1116
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: thing to do, and so you know, so that was something. Yeah,

1117
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: that came up legally too. We haven't figured out what

1118
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: that number is, but to Mandy's point, like this is

1119
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 1: what attorneys are for and certainly, you know, leading into

1120
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: the help of your like podcasting partner, like how do

1121
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: you calculate whatever?

1122
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 3: That looks like?

1123
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, but yeah, the legal part certainly was not

1124
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: as hard as the emotional part.

1125
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 2: So I'll just say.

1126
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 3: That there's probably flipped for a lot of people, yeah,

1127
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 3: because they probably go straight to the legal. But again,

1128
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 3: it just comes back to I almost want to put

1129
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 3: something in the contract that just says, if such and

1130
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 3: such happens, we agree to have a one hour phone

1131
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 3: call about it and talk about it. I like that,

1132
00:49:55,719 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 3: in good faith line, in good faith, we'll talk about it, like,

1133
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 3: because I think that's just that you and I are

1134
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 3: just two reasonable people who care about each other at

1135
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 3: the end of the day. Right, yeah, So is there

1136
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 3: anything that you all feel is left unseated? And do

1137
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 3: you feel like you want to say to one another?

1138
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: You know what? I like that we do now, Mandy.

1139
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: We never used to do this before, but we hang

1140
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: up the phone and we tell each other that we

1141
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: love each other.

1142
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 3: Mm hm.

1143
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 1: And so it's not left unsaid. But it's good for

1144
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: the audience to hear. I think too that, like, I

1145
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: really love you, Mandy, for real. I love you because

1146
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: I love you.

1147
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 3: I love you too.

1148
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: I'm gonna start crying again because it's girl.

1149
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to miss you and I Doctor Joy,

1150
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 3: thank you for being here to like sort of witness

1151
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 3: this final convo. I mean as podcast co hosts, but

1152
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 3: I'm just really proud of us, and I hope that

1153
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 3: if you are listening, I just keep thinking about ba Fam,

1154
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I know that a lot of people

1155
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 3: don't have a relationship like this with someone that they

1156
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 3: want to have it with, Like maybe you do have

1157
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 3: a Tiffany, but it's not your sister or your it's

1158
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 3: someone that you really would like to have a healthier

1159
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 3: relationship with. And I hope that we left you guys

1160
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 3: with at least some things to think about even how

1161
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 3: to change the way that you're feeling about those relationships,

1162
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 3: and that there's hope even if they are fraught now

1163
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 3: that you can get to a place where you can

1164
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 3: give each other more grace. And yeah, I'm definitely applying

1165
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 3: some of the principles of our communication strategy with people

1166
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 3: in my life to varying levels of success. Yeah, I

1167
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 3: love you, Tiff And thank you for Yeah, thank you

1168
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 3: for going on this ride with me.

1169
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you be a fam. I love you

1170
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 2: too as much as I can from bar the way.

1171
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: And thank you so much, doctor Joy.

1172
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: Thank you for like planning the seed of like it's

1173
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 1: okay for you to be okay and choose yourself and

1174
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: then helping us close this chapter.

1175
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 2: So we really appreciate you.

1176
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 4: What and Nanna to be here with you all, thank

1177
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 4: you all so much.

1178
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 3: Thank you not be a fan, you know, go get

1179
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 3: this book, sister, could you say, Doctor Joy Hardenburg Radford,

1180
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,439
Speaker 3: The Transformative Power of in Community And yeah, you've really

1181
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 3: changed my life doctor Joydan just from the couple of

1182
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 3: times we talked. So yeah, the thing what you're doing

1183
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 3: with the t the TBG mm hm yeah TBG community

1184
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 3: is just incredible. So it's an honor to always have

1185
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 3: you on the show. Hope you'll come back again.

1186
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, where can they find you, doctor Joy?

1187
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: Time?

1188
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 4: You can find me at Hello doctor Joy, all across

1189
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 4: social media, and my website is hellodoctor Joy dot com.

1190
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 4: And you can find all of the Therapy for Black

1191
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 4: Girl's information at Therapy for Black Girls dot com.