1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: People were on a street. 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 2: Suddenly I can see this really high water and I 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 2: just like, what is that. 4 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: The two thousand and four Indian Ocean tsunami was like 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: no other. It was equivalent to. 6 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 2: Twenty three thousand Hiroshima type A town a bunch. I 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: remember the feeling of the wave passing on my face. 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 3: It's like immense force. And then once I resurfaced, rescued 9 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 3: out for mom and dad and just heard nothing. 10 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 2: Everybody lost. Somebody, this elderly couple were hanging on to 11 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: a railing. I tried to reach them, and they just disappeared. 12 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 3: Nearly a quarter a million people left this planet in 13 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 3: one day, but I saw hundreds of backs of heroism. 14 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: I forgot about my fear. I couldnot say no to 15 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: everyone calling for help. 16 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: You're a good girl, You're a strong girl. 17 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 3: When things are at their darkest time and somebody is 18 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 3: in trouble, people want to help. That is the wonderful 19 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 3: power of the human spirit. 20 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, on December twenty six, 21 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: two thousand and four, seven fifty nine am Local time, 22 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: an undersea earthquake with a magnitude of nine point one 23 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: struck off the coast of the Indonesian island of Sumatra. 24 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: Over the next seven hours, the tsunami was triggered by 25 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: the quake and reached across the Indian Ocean, devastating coastal 26 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: areas all across Southeast Asia and as far away as 27 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: East Africa. Some coastal towns reported ocean waves that had 28 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: reached a height of thirty feet or more when they 29 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: hit the shoreline. This December marks the twentieth anniversary of 30 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: the tsunami disaster that took the lives of two hundred 31 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: and twenty five thousand people. National Geographic Channel is airing 32 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: a new documentary entitled Tsunami Race Against Time, which is 33 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: now streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu. Here to talk 34 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: about the film, I am really pleased to welcome my guest, 35 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: Daniel Bogado, who was the executive producer and director. Daniel, 36 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining me on News World. 37 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me. 38 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: First, I have to ask you, where were you when 39 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: we started seeing video images of the tsunami on the 40 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: news in two thousand and four. It was the day 41 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: after Christmas, so I think many of us were with 42 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: our families. 43 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: I was with my family as well, and I remember 44 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: waking up and like so many people, seeing on the 45 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: news huge earthquake of Indonesia. Thousands feared dead. And then 46 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: as the news followed, it just kept getting worse and 47 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: worse and worse that the number of dead just kept 48 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And two thousand and 49 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: five was the first year I started working on television 50 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,119 Speaker 2: making documentaries. I was just getting started. So I could 51 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: see a lot of people, people who were producers, directors, 52 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: going out to Asia bringing back extraordinary stories, and so 53 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: twenty years later, I thought we could make a very 54 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: very powerful documentary series about it. 55 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: For the people who aren't familiar with the event, Can 56 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: you sort of give a brief interview of what the 57 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: two thousand and four Indian Ocean tsunami was like and 58 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: why it became one of the deadliest natural disasters in history. 59 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: Yes, the main thing it was highly unexpected. It happened 60 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: in the Indian Ocean, some miles off the coast of Indonesia. 61 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: There was an underwater quake and he was huge. I mean, 62 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: it's one of the biggest that has ever been registered, 63 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: coming up to a nine point two in the end, 64 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: and that generated a huge wall of water that spread 65 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: in both sides. Fourteen countries were affected. The ones that 66 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 2: were most affected were the closest ones to the quake, 67 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: which were Indonesia and Thailand, Sri Lanka, India, and he 68 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 2: was the coastal populations which were particularly badly affected. There 69 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: is a tsunami warning center. There was one in the 70 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 2: Pacific because most tsunamis had been in the Pacific Ocean, 71 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 2: so that's where they expected they would come. So they 72 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: saw the readings. This is a story that's followed in 73 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: the documentary. So the scientists there realized this was a 74 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 2: big earthquake and realized there was probably a huge tsunami 75 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: affecting all those countries, but they had nowhere they could call. 76 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: There were no warning systems in place, no warning centers 77 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 2: in place, so it was like seeing an unfolding horror film, 78 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: and there was nothing they could do about it. 79 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: So was the center of the underlying earthquake to the 80 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: west of Samatra, So they drove into the Indian Ocean, 81 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: because there's been to the east of Sumatra, it would 82 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: have hit Singapore and it would have gone into the Pacific. 83 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's exactly was incredibly close to Sumatra and at 84 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 2: the time it had a conflict. They had a conflict 85 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: that had been going on for a long time, secessionist 86 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 2: rebellion movement. So that meant that it was kind of 87 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: closed off, particularly from foreigners. It was very difficult to 88 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 2: get in. Herowed out. We actually tracked down one of 89 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: the few foreigners who was allowed to be there, who 90 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,679 Speaker 2: was a surfer called David Lynes, and we profiled his story. 91 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: So what that meant didn't effect is if you go 92 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: to some of the other countries like Thailand or Sri Lanka, 93 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: there were a lot of westerners. There were a lot 94 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 2: of tourists there and they filmed quite a lot of 95 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: what they saw and many of the images that came 96 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 2: afterwards came from the tourists. But Bandacci itself didn't have 97 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 2: any tourists, and so the people who recorded the tsunami 98 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: were the journalists whose normal job was to cover the conflict. 99 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: They would film the conflict and they would send images 100 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: to reuters and people like that, and when they saw 101 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: the tsunami, they just took the cameras and filmed that. 102 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 2: But a lot of that material never left Indonesia, and 103 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: so we traveled there and we met them. We went 104 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 2: to the TV stations and we tracked on hundreds of 105 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 2: hours of video that had never been shown before, which 106 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: you can see on the documentary. 107 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: You mentioned that there were waves that actually reached down 108 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: they could have been thirty feet home more, but also 109 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: that at its peak in the ocean, it may have 110 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: been one hundred foot high wave. 111 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: So one of the things that happened. It spread on 112 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: both directions, once towards Thailand, another one towards Sri Lanka. 113 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: But the wave that spread towards Tiler was much much slower. Well, 114 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: the wave that spread towards Sri Lanka was very very 115 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: quick because it was going through open ocean essentially, so 116 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: they arrived even though it had to cross much much 117 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: greater distance to get to Sri Lanka on the other 118 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: side of the Indian Ocean. They are right more or 119 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: less at the same time in both locations. And then 120 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 2: the second aspect that people don't quite realize is that 121 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: it's not just one wave, it's several waves. And so 122 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: people in Puquet, for instance, so the first wave come, 123 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 2: they didn't understand what happened, and then the water goes 124 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: back and then everybody thinks oh, it's over, and everybody 125 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: goes into the beach and they're looking around, but another 126 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: wave is coming, often a bigger wave than the first one, 127 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: and then it happened again and again. On the second episode, 128 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: we explore these kind of multiple wave phenomenon. So I 129 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: think often people have the wrong idea of what a 130 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: tsunami will look like, because often it's not the giant wave. 131 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: Sometimes it is, but often it's a wall of water 132 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: that just push us in, push us in, and push 133 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: us in, and it can be deceptive. A lot of 134 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: people were looking at that wall of water and they 135 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: didn't know what it was. Many lost their lives that way. 136 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: I mean, if you've never seen one, it's not obvious 137 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: that you'd have this kind of an impact. 138 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely if you haven't seen one. And also this was 139 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 2: an area where they're usually were in tsunamis You had 140 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 2: to go back a long long time for the last tsunami. 141 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: It's actually interesting. There was one group of people that 142 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: we interviewed who did know. They didn't make it to 143 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 2: the series. If there was a woman and they were 144 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 2: in Kosurin Island and they were indigenous people. They're called 145 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: the sea nomads. They're kind of indigenous people. They travel 146 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: from island to island, They live and work on boats, 147 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 2: and their own ancestors remembered through their myths. There was 148 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: a myth that said, if you see the water go back, 149 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: you need to find high Land, because that's they called it. 150 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: The sea monster is coming. So when they saw the 151 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: water go back, they immediately knew basically through tradition, and 152 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 2: they all found high Land. I think only one of 153 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: them died because it goes back that further that that 154 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: long amount of time before there was a tsunami. 155 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: So in a sense, the first wave comes in recedes 156 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: and then a potentially even bigger second wave comes in. 157 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: Are there a routine number of waves involved in a tsunami, No. 158 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: It varies a lot. It varies from location to location. 159 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 2: And so even in Thailand where a lot of people 160 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: who are a lot of Westerners, you could go to 161 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: one beach and people would have one type of experience 162 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 2: and then thirty minutes later it could be much more devastating. 163 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: And that's because the tsunami in the open ocean, you 164 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 2: don't see this giant wave because most of the tsunami 165 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: is underwater. So if you have a boat that's several 166 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: miles into the ocean. You'll probably be fine. The problem 167 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: is when it approaches the coastline and then it starts 168 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: getting bigger and bigger and bigger because of the seaflow 169 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 2: starts rising, and that's where it's a problem. Is so 170 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: areas which are very built and have a lot of 171 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 2: material they will slow down the wave, and areas which 172 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: are quite open and don't have a lot of things blocking. 173 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 2: For instance, one of the places that was the most 174 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 2: devastated in Thailand was a place called kaw Lak that 175 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: people went there because of its natural beauty and they 176 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: were by the beach, and we have images in the 177 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 2: it's absolutely devastating. When the wave comes, it's absolutely huge 178 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: and just takes everybody with it. 179 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: How did you go about finding survivors who were willing 180 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: to talk about their experience, I mean talk about PTSD. 181 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: There must have had some deep psychological damage done by 182 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: surviving this. 183 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, particularly in places like Bandachi, which were very, 184 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: very badly hit. And one of our contributors lost fifty 185 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: members of his family and that wasn't unusual. I mean 186 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: almost half of the people who died died just there. 187 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: Finding survivors. Well, basically before this, I worked on a 188 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 2: series about nine eleven called nine to eleven One Day 189 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 2: in America, also for National Geographic and the idea of 190 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: that series was we will tell the story of the 191 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: day only using video archive. So we did this very 192 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: very extensive, detailed research period of just tracking down every tape, 193 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 2: every image that had been captured of the day. And 194 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 2: once we did that, we started searching for the people 195 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: we could see in the video archive so they could 196 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: tell their story. And that was a very effective approach 197 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: because it placed the audience in the middle of the day. 198 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 2: We went minute by minute, and also the people who 199 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: tell their stories they tell it to you minute by minute, 200 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 2: and so you're feeling the experience as they felt it, 201 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: and it was a very effective way of telling the story. 202 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 2: We didn't bring much other details other than the experiences 203 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 2: of people. So we decided to do the same with 204 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: this series. And obviously it was a bigger enterprise because 205 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 2: we had to go to Indonesia, We had to go 206 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: to Thailand, Sri Lanka and find people there. Often all 207 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: we had was the image of them in the archive, 208 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 2: and so finding them was detective work, very difficult detective work, 209 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: but we had wonderful teams of researchers and producers working 210 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: in each country. Many of them were themselves survivors of 211 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 2: the tsunami, many of themselves or had family members they 212 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 2: had lost. So they were incredibly passionate about the project 213 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 2: because we said, this is about history, this is about 214 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 2: showing what happened that day for future generations, and it's 215 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: also a memorial for the lives that were lost, and 216 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: when you explain that to the contributors. And also because 217 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 2: a lot of people, somebody who's twenty years old today 218 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: will have no memory of the tsunami, right, and so 219 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 2: something that would serve as educational as well. Once you 220 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: watch the series, you get a very good idea of 221 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 2: what a tsunami is, what the warning signs are. Hopefully 222 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 2: it can save some lives. 223 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: You're finding local people to help actually make the film 224 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: in a series. How many of the fourteen countries did 225 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: you go into. 226 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: Well, we focused on three of them, and then we 227 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 2: explore briefly some of them because basically it was very 228 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: difficult in one episode to jump from too many countries. 229 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 2: So the first one is Indonesia, and that most of 230 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 2: the episode is set there because that was the hardest 231 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 2: hit place. And then the next one is Thailand, and 232 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: then we went to Sri Lanka where we found extraordinary 233 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 2: images that had never been shown before in hospitals. It 234 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 2: was the biggest train accident of a station that has 235 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: ever happened. Happened there on the day of the tsunami. 236 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 2: So we covered all those stories. The key thing was 237 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: finding the people in the archive to tell their stories. 238 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 2: And there's so many times that you see somebody in 239 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: the video and you think, oh my god, how did 240 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 2: they survive? And then you start hearing their voice and 241 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 2: they start telling you their story. It's something really really powerful. 242 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: You're also using twenty year old video. Yeah, that was 243 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: most of the digital hour. Was it film still or 244 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: what kind of things did you have? 245 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 2: Well, So it's interesting how when you work on a 246 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: certain project at a certain time, it tells you a 247 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: lot about the technology. So, for instance, the ninet eleven 248 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 2: series that we worked and we're talking about two thousand 249 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: and one, a lot of things were just shot on cameras, 250 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: on MiniDV tapes and a lot of it survived very 251 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: very well. So you'd think something that happens three years 252 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 2: later in two thousand and four it would be the same, 253 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: but actually it was a bit different because, first of all, 254 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: the locations are different from New York. They're very humid, 255 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: very wet places. So sometimes people kept the tape, but 256 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: by the time we found it it was completely destroyed 257 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: by the weather. Basically, other times people would digitize the 258 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: tape onto a hard drive, but sometimes the hard drive 259 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 2: was unrescuable. Other times it was rescued but highly compressed. 260 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: So often it was a huge, huge challenge, involved a 261 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: lot of detective work tracking copies down. Something that was 262 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: a lot of help was going to broadcasters, to channels 263 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 2: and go into their libraries, and they had saved a 264 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: lot of material. But what it makes you realize is 265 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 2: that we think that because we have all this technology, 266 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: all this digital technology, all these cameras, when something happens, 267 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 2: we have kept the history, and that's not true. Even 268 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: on ninet eleven, we had to do a huge amount 269 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: of detective work to track down tapes, to track down images. 270 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 2: They were just not very well organized or very difficult 271 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: to find. Sometimes, and in this case it was the 272 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 2: same thing. There were a lot of tapes that we thought, 273 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 2: oh wow, this is extraordinary, and then we found the 274 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: file was corrupted or the tape was destroyed. It was 275 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: often quite frustrating, and so that's very important for us 276 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: to keep our history, but sometimes it's a challenge. We 277 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 2: have this assumption because something is digital, it will be saved, 278 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: but that's just not the case. 279 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: I'm curious, because you have been at the documentary filmmaker 280 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: for a good while, how did you choose what to 281 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: look at. 282 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 2: There's something, a bit of intuition that comes, especially for 283 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 2: big projects like this, which take about two years actually, 284 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: and so it happened with ninet eleven, and it happened 285 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: with Tsunami. And often once you've worked for many years 286 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: making documentaries, you developed an intuition or an instinct of 287 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: what is an interesting new approach to an old story. 288 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: And so with nine eleven, when it was presented to me, 289 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 2: told this would be the biggest series ever done on 290 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: ninet eleven, we're going to bring all the archive together 291 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: and we're going to interview it with the most powerful stories, 292 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 2: both known and unknown, on a six part series. And 293 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: I just immediately immediately knew that would be extraordinary because 294 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 2: I had read a lot about nine eleven. I had 295 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 2: seen some of the archive, and I just understood the 296 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: potential for that project. So we worked on it for 297 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: two years and I developed the approach. I said, we're 298 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: not going to do anything else other than video archive 299 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: and the voices of survivors. There's not going to be 300 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: a narrator, there's not going to be graphics. It's just 301 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: going to be those two things. And you know, for 302 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: National Geographic it was the first time they were trying 303 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: this new approach. Usually they bring a lot of other things. 304 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 2: But it was a huge success, won many awards. He 305 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 2: won an Emmy. It was very well received by the audience. 306 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 2: And even at the time, I thought, there's not that 307 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: many other big events where you could use this approach 308 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 2: because the approach works only if you can bring in 309 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 2: video from a lot of different sources. So it has 310 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: to be a big event where a lot of people 311 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 2: got out video cameras to film. I thought the timing 312 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 2: was essential. So both of them are twenty anniversary twenty 313 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 2: year anniversary projects, so it means twenty years is a 314 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 2: period of time where the survivors will have had time 315 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: to process it will be something in their past, but 316 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 2: not so much time that say, if you were to 317 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 2: do something about World War two today, you would struggle 318 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: to find people who are still alive to tell those stories. 319 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 2: So twenty years is a very good period of time. 320 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 2: And then bringing together the video archive and then the 321 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 2: team of people that I bring. I bring the best editors, 322 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 2: best in thematographers, best composers, and all of them understand, 323 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 2: you know what we're trying to do with this project. 324 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 2: And so it's actually quite an exciting proposition for me 325 00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 2: and incredibly rewarding work. 326 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: Well, when you work with somebody like not Geo, I 327 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: think of them as a quality channel that they're going 328 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: to support you and invest in you and try to 329 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: really bring something special. 330 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think the thing with National Geographic 331 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: as well, because the team I work with on the 332 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 2: tsunami are the same team that we work together on 333 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 2: ninet eleven. So there's a lot of trust, right Because 334 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 2: if you're going to commit two years of your life 335 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 2: to doing a project, and you're making promises to the people, 336 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 2: the contributors, you're saying, this is a serious project, it 337 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 2: will not be sensationalist. We're going to trick you and 338 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: your story with respect, and we're going to be very 339 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 2: journalistically rigorous, to be accurate at every stage of the moment, 340 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: and we're doing this as a memorial to the lives 341 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 2: that we're lost, and we're doing this as well to 342 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: educate a next generation. So that's the pitch which a 343 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: lot of contributors listen and they say, Okay, I will 344 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 2: sit down and I will tell you about the worst 345 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 2: day of my life. It will involve a lot of 346 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 2: emotion and a lot of tears. It's not something easy. 347 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 2: It requires courage to do that. So you need to 348 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 2: know that the people that you're working for you're on 349 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 2: the same wavelength that they will also have this commitment 350 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: to treating the story with respect, treating the people with respect, 351 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 2: and doing what's best for the series. And one other 352 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 2: thing that this requires. It requires an investment. It requires 353 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 2: an investment in time, It requires an investment in resources. 354 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 2: So we spend a lot of time just searching for 355 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 2: archives before we start filming anything. Then we spend another 356 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 2: time searching for the contributors, and then even once we 357 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: filmed with them and done everything, we spend very long 358 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 2: edits because it takes a long time to get the 359 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 2: film just right. So these are long projects and you 360 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 2: need a partner that's completely committed to the VIII of 361 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 2: the project and to quality and to honesty and national 362 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 2: geographic I think, well, they have a tremendous track record. 363 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 2: They were very happy with nine eleven. I think they're 364 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 2: very happy with this series. So we work very well together. 365 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: Did you find at an emotional level much difference between 366 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: the survivors of nine to eleven and the survivors of 367 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: the tsunami. 368 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 2: I think there are differences. I'm not sure at an 369 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: emotional level. Obviously, you're often talking to mothers who lost 370 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: their children, people who lost their brothers. So that's a 371 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 2: loss so devastating. It's a universal type of pain, I think, 372 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 2: and so obviously in both cases there were very very 373 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 2: emotional interviews. But I think there are some differences in 374 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 2: that with ninety eleven, the cost of this, the reason 375 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: it happened, it was just because of other humans, because 376 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 2: of evil. That's why it happened. Was in with the tsunami. 377 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 2: It happens because of a natural disaster. It isn't a 378 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 2: human agency that's behind it. And so you see different 379 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 2: responses from different people. So, for instance, in Bandacci, which 380 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: is a very religious country, Islamic most times, when you 381 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 2: start asking people why do you think this happened? Or 382 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 2: there's a very answer that this was God's will and 383 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 2: there's not much more exploring after. The places are very religious, 384 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 2: particularly Islam, You're not supposed to question God's will, and 385 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 2: so it is an answer was if you go to 386 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 2: the Twin Towers, people will have probably more detailed answers 387 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 2: about why God might be part of the equation as well, 388 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 2: but it's just a different type of response. I think 389 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 2: also with nine eleven in tsunami. With nine eleven, when 390 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 2: we were looking at other documentaries, there were thousands, other books, 391 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: there were thousands. Even when I told people I'm working 392 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 2: in a series of nine eleven, they would sort of 393 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 2: roll their eyes because they would think, well, what else 394 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 2: can be said? And with the tsunami, I would speak 395 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 2: to people and I would say, did you know that 396 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 2: nearly a quarter of a million people died that day? 397 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 2: And people were surprised, so even people who lived through it. 398 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 2: So I think with ninet eleven, because he had such 399 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 2: a big political impact, geopolitical impact in the world, we 400 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 2: lived in a post nine eleven world after that, so 401 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 2: it was very difficult to forget all the ramifications that 402 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 2: came from that was with the tsunami. Perhaps it was 403 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 2: a bit like the Spanish influence of nineteen eighteen. It 404 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 2: was a horrible, horrible tragedy. It was in the news 405 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 2: for six months. I think people after that wanted to 406 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 2: move on, So you have a new generation that just 407 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 2: really doesn't know much about it. 408 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: It's interesting you're positive references about working with NA GEO. 409 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: Klis and I are just right now in the middle 410 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: of working with PBS. We've done a film called Journey 411 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: to America, which is a series of people who came 412 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: to the United States legally and how much they've improved 413 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: and contributed to the American experience. And we've found that 414 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: working with the team at PBS must be a little 415 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: bit like nat GEO, and that it's These are world 416 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: class institutions. They have very high standards to make sure 417 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: that at every stage you're doing it the right way. 418 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: So I really appreciate that. I have to confess I've 419 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: been a big fan of that GEO, but mostly for 420 00:22:59,160 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: the animals. 421 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 2: I'm working on a documentary about a baby elephant for 422 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 2: the VBC, so I love animals as well. That will 423 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 2: be out next year. 424 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: Tell me about this baby elephant. 425 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 2: So it's basically in Kenya and there's this huge reservation 426 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 2: for elephants, a wildlife reservation, so they live freely. But 427 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: what happens when a mother dies for whatever reason, might 428 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,239 Speaker 2: be poachers, there's a baby elephant without a mother, that 429 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 2: baby elephant usually will die. They need their mother. They 430 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 2: completely depend on their mother. So what this reservation does 431 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 2: is they rescue the baby elephant, but then somebody needs 432 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 2: to be the mother, and that's somebody is a man 433 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 2: in this case, is called Joseph, an African man, a 434 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: Kenyan man, and so he's going to be the elephant's 435 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: mother for the next three years. I mean two years 436 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 2: have already passed, and he has to be with the 437 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 2: baby twenty four hours. They feed him, teach him how 438 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 2: to be an elephant. So compared to some of these 439 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: other such stories, is incredibly moving and uplifting, an inspirational, 440 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 2: and the elephant is total absolutely beautiful and adorable and 441 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 2: he's doing very well now. So I think that will 442 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 2: be out next year. 443 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: That's great, What a wonderful experience to be able to 444 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: do something like that. 445 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 2: What I try to do is I try to mix 446 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 2: stories which are very very sad with stories which are 447 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,479 Speaker 2: very uplifting and hopeful. And the world is big, and 448 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: both kinds of stories are happening all the time. There's 449 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 2: tremendous good happening in this world as well as tremendous bad. 450 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: But I've worked with PBS as well. I did a 451 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 2: film on Bokoharam many years ago, around the time the 452 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 2: girls were kidnapped, and so we made a film exposing 453 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 2: both Bokoharam and the trocities they were committing and the 454 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 2: Nigerian army in retaliatory violence. And you won an Emmy 455 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: and they were extraordinary to work with. You like to 456 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: work with people like that who are very, very very 457 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 2: thorough about making sure all your facts are correct. And 458 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 2: that's a relief, because that's what you want. 459 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: Did you feel it all endangered trying to do a 460 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: film about Bokohoram. 461 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 2: I work with these journalist called Evan Williams, and he 462 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 2: had gathered a bunch of videos, often in places where 463 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 2: the many human rights abuses, videos are gathered all of 464 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 2: those abuses that are making the rounds, and so we said, well, 465 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 2: let's make a film about this, and so we traveled there, 466 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 2: but we couldn't go all the way to Maiduguri. It 467 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: was just way too dangerous, so we went all the 468 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 2: way north and then we sent a fixer who would 469 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,719 Speaker 2: find the people in the videos and would bring him 470 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: to us and then we would do the interview, so 471 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 2: we ourselves didn't put ourselves in too much danger. It 472 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 2: was more for the people who were agreeing to tell 473 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: the story of the abuses they had suffered. Often obviously 474 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 2: we disguise their identity. So yeah, it was a very 475 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 2: challenging project in a way. What it shows it shows 476 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: the violence of Pokohoram, but then the violence that the 477 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: army was committing against innocent civilians in their efforts to 478 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 2: do something about what was happening. So it was a 479 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 2: very sad story. 480 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: Well, and it's still going on. 481 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, the violence in Nigeria gets very little attention, 482 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 2: but it's absolutely horrific. 483 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 1: You've managed to work your way into a fascinating career 484 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: where you get to learn and do things that are 485 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: very different. You're not locked in a room somewhere just 486 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: working on your computer. You're out doing real things and 487 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: I think that's terrific. I want to thank you for 488 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: joining me. I want to let our listeners know they 489 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: can watch your terrific new documentary, Sunami Raced Against Time, 490 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: which is streaming now on Disney Plus and Hulu. Daniel, 491 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 1: it has been a real joy to have a chance 492 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: to talk with somebody who is as passionate, as committed 493 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,959 Speaker 1: and as dedicated as you are. So thank you for 494 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: taking this time to be with us. 495 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it. 496 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Daniel Bogato. You can learn 497 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: more about his new documentary, Sunami Race Against Time on 498 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: our show page at newtsworld dot com. News World is 499 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: produced by Gangers three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer 500 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork 501 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks 502 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: to the team at Gaglish. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, 503 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate 504 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 505 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners 506 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: of Newsworld can sign up for my three freeweekly columns 507 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: at Gingrishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm new Gingrich. 508 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: This is newsworld