WEBVTT - Mike Shinoda 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:06.280 I Heart Radio Presents Inside the Studio. I'm your host 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:12.560 Joe Leaving. My guest today is Mike Shinoda, the rapper, producer, 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.760 songwriter of Lincoln Park. Although he's here to talk about 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:19.800 what's essentially his first solo album, it's called Post Traumatic, 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.279 and although Mike has released music under the name Fort 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.320 Minor before, this is the first album he's released under 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:35.519 his own name now. Last year, on Lincoln Park released 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.919 their seventh studio album, One More Light. It became their 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.159 fifth album to debut at number one on the Billboard 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.519 Album Chart, and in fact, all the two of their 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.920 albums have debuted at number one, which is a pretty 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:52.200 remarkable run over an eighteen year stretch. But what should 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.200 have been a moment of celebration was marked by tragedy. 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.560 On May eighth, the day before the release of One 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.600 More Light It, Chris Cornell of Sound Garden took his 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.800 own life. Cornell and Lincoln Park's Chester Bennington were close, 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.920 and at a memorial service in Los Angeles ten days later, 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.640 Bennington saying Hallelujah, accompanied by bandmate Brad Delson on guitar. 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.200 Here's how Bennington paid tribute to Cornell on Twitter. Your 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:24.280 voice was joy and pain, anger and forgiveness, love and 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.440 heartache all wrapped up into one. I suppose that's what 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:36.720 we all are. You helped me understand that thing week. Indeed, 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:38.920 Bennington had a lot of pain and heartache of his own, 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:43.600 more than a share who cares it for more like 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:50.120 goes out in the sky of fa millions, and two 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.400 months later, on July, he took his own life, as 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.360 some people immediately noted that day was Chris Cornell's birthday. 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:00.520 Kind of thing that can make you think you understand 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:05.040 an action that at its core resists easy explanations or understanding. 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:10.040 As Mike Shinoda explains, he himself grew up a visual 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.000 artist and a musician, and he's always used his art 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.280 as a way of processing his experience of making sense 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.119 of things. But immediately after Chester's death, he really wasn't 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:29.280 sure what to do. It was weird because when I 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.400 look back at it, I don't think there's ever been 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.600 a time when I've not been able to go write, 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.360 Like when I felt like weird about writing a song. 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.400 It's always like, if I have something going on, that's 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.480 like the best time to go write a song. You 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.600 know you're dealing with stuff. I use my visual art 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.919 and my music as therapy, so it's always like a thing. 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.040 If I'm going through something difficult, oftentimes I'll go straight 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:58.040 to the songwriting stuff. But with this, there was a 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.160 time where I was really like scared to be in 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.360 the studio a little bit. Let'm like scared, but just 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:07.760 like anxious. What was going on? Well, yeah, so after 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.680 Chester passed, it was hard for me to go in 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.720 the studio for a while. And then at a certain point, 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:19.120 I remember speaking to Dave Phoenix from the band and um, 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:23.040 actually all of us got together at Dave's house and 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:24.639 he had said, oh, have you guys listened to any 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.880 of our music yet? And everyone was like, no way, 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.360 but he had, and he was like, you know, it 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.680 was hard. It seemed scarier than it was, you know, 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:35.360 And now that I've listened to it, I know I 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.560 can listen to it. Well. The same thing happened to 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:39.400 me with getting in the studio. It's like, at first 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:41.680 it seemed like, oh man, it's gonna feel really weird 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:45.360 to go in and write about anything. And I did 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.960 a few I just kind of, you know, bit the 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:49.920 bullet and went in and did some stuff and some 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.360 of it was really just screwing around and just playing whatever, 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.360 like play guitar for a couple of hours, or just 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.240 doodle around on the piano, or make some sounds, make 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.800 a little like beat. Eventually I was making songs every day. 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:08.600 It seemed like all the ones that were about stuff 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.800 that was actually going on, songs that were actually serious songs, 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:15.640 most of those just kind of turned in this record, 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:27.320 I Don't have a Leg to Stand, spinning like a 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.280 whirl and in the Land. The solo music Shinoda began 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.400 to release starting in January, talked about loss in ways 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.880 that we're both deeply personal and universal. In a song 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.919 called Place to Start, he sang about feeling like he 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.119 was in a whirlwind, sometimes scared that everything he'd built 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.919 might fall apart, sometimes feeling like he was so focused 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.039 on endings that he'd run out of the will to 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:52.880 find a beginning. But it felt less like a song 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.240 and more like a page out of his journal. And 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.720 that feeling was reinforced by a video he put out 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.160 of him simply singing this ang into his phone, which 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.200 was more like a skype call than a video from 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.480 a musician who's been selling out arenas for almost two decades, 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.360 and that immediacy was the whole point. Shonota was figuring 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.360 out things as he went and sharing the process. And 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.440 when I say figuring out things as he went, I 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:20.200 mean it very literally. The first verse of over Again 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:24.719 was written and recorded on October, the day Lincoln Park 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.640 played a memorial concert at the Hollywood Bowl, with friends 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.520 from Blink, No Doubt, Korn, and many others stepping in 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:35.640 to help honor Chester Bennington. Shinodah is describing the feelings 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.240 he had beforehand, right down to wanting to puke his 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:45.039 guts out rather than get on stage. But at the 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.200 same time, anyone who's experienced the death of a friend 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.320 or a loved one is wrestled with what's expressed in 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.880 the chorus of this song. That's saying goodbye isn't confined 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.880 to a single moment or even a series of moments. 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:03.840 It happens over and over and over again. And anyone 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.360 who's experience loss also knows the moment when someone comes 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.880 up to you and expresses his or her condolences, and 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.000 it is more to do with them than it does 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.479 with you. Shinodah talks about this and hold it together, 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:29.039 they say that they sympathize. I'm grateful they take the 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.120 time for bringing it up. But to six year old, 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:33.919 what I really wanted to do with a lot of 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.960 those things, and it happens in the show too, is 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:40.080 to take you and put you in my shoes, you like, 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.040 and make sure that when you're hearing it, it's like, 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:48.440 oh shit, like I haven't thought of what it must 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.000 be like, right. And there were a few moments like 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.960 like that on the record where you know, somebody's asking 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.840 about you know, oh, it must be so hard, are 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.240 you okay? And whatever, and it's like, you know what, motherfucker, 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.640 I was doing really good until you started bringing it up, 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.520 Like I haven't even thought about that all day. Now 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.360 I'm thinking about it and we're at a birthday party. 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.920 Maybe you could have stopped yourself like thirty seconds ago 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:17.600 and said, wait, it's now the appropriate time to ask 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:19.520 this or to say this, like maybe we wait till 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:27.920 later to understand the magnitude of the loss that charges 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.320 post traumatic and you have to understand how Chester Bennington 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.960 in My Shinoda each served as the engine of one 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:38.400 another's dreams. When Lincoln Park first released their debut album, 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.480 hybrid theory. In two thousand, they were lumped in with 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.240 a lot of other bands that had grown up on 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.400 both heavy guitars and hip hop, and some of them 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.600 shared a pensiont for the gratuitous use of the letter 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.360 K when spelling their names. I'm thinking here of Corn 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.800 and Limp Biscuit. But Lincoln Park were bigger and have 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:59.400 lasted longer in part because they did more, not just 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.960 made me USI with a broader range, more open to 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.960 other sounds and feelings than pure rage. It's also as 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.760 they were coming up, they cared about nothing but playing 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:14.000 shows and meeting fans afterwards. We're shooting for the title 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.559 of hardest working band in America. Bennington boasted to Rolling 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.520 Stone in two thousand and one, and that is the 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.600 year that they did three hundred and twenty four live performances, 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.120 which is not exactly one a day for a full year. 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.360 It's one every one point one seven days. I did 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.480 the math. They also had something that other bands with 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:37.280 the K didn't too, vocalists Mike Shinodah and Chester Bennington. 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.360 Shinodah was the rapper, Bennington was the singer and also 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:45.760 the screamer and also everything in between. On breakthrough songs 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.840 like In the End, Bennington could sound delicate like the 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:53.080 piano and raw like the guitars. It was like a 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:57.439 whole band in one throat. It starts with I don't 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.280 know why it doesn't need no matter how hard to 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.040 keep that in mind, I protect to was playing to 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:26.160 do one thing. I don't know why it doesn't need to. 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:28.959 It took more than a year for Hybrid Theory to 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.160 climb to number two on the album chart. Don't let 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:36.160 that number to fool you. It was a dominator. Hybrid 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.560 Theory would become the best selling album of two thousand 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:43.000 and one, beating out records from jay Z and Sinc. 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.800 And Britney Spears, and it stayed on the Billboard chart 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.760 for two hundred and nine weeks. A little more than 0:09:48.880 --> 0:10:14.200 four years gets sold better than ten million copies. Lincoln 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.400 Park went added hard when they were on stage and 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.440 hard when they weren't, but not the way most bands did. 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.880 We'd rather go to somebody's house and write a song 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.360 than go to a party, Shinoda told Rolling Stone in 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.760 two thousand and three. At parties, you knew what was 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:30.920 going to happen, you knew who was going to get drunk. 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.560 But when we got together to write songs, we never 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.720 knew what was going to happen. It was much more exciting. 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:40.560 Lincoln Park became the biggest new rock band of the 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.040 two thousand's for years. They had their own touring festival 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.640 project Revolution that in two thousand and four featured both 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.959 Corn and Snoop Dogg. Thank You, Thank You, Thank you 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.280 kind And that's the same year they get a special friend, 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:59.240 TV jay Z that became the Collision Core CP, the 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.960 rare man ship project that works for more than a 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.520 few minutes at the time. It's amazing how well Numb 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.080 and Encore go together and how much each side gets 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.439 from the other. Lincoln Park is a whole new kind 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.200 of swagger. Jay Z has a new kind of thunder. 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:19.360 It shouldn't work, but it totally does, you know. After that, 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:21.920 it was natural that Lincoln Park hook up with producer 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.079 Rick Rubin, who had masterminded some of the first fusions 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.200 of rock, guitar and hip hop with Run DMC and 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:31.240 The Beastie Boys. They recorded three albums with Ruben, who 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.640 pushed them to write songs rather than make tracks, and 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.240 on songs like Shadow of the Day from two thousand 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.400 and sevens Minutes to Midnight, they sounded more like a 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:43.839 band than ever. In fact, they sounded like they were 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:48.000 ready to be the next you Tube. At the beginning 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.400 for Lincoln Park, everybody played two roles, one in the band, 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:56.200 one behind the scenes. Shinoda and keyboardist turntablist John handled 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:00.599 the visuals, with Han directing the videos. Guitarist Delson and 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:04.520 drummer Rob Borden handled some marketing and finance duties. Bassist 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.960 Dave Farrell was the tour correspondent, doing updates for their website, 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.600 but Bennington's job was more like being the heart of 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.760 the band. He and Shinoda wrote the lyrics, and in 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.840 interviews he embodied the pain, the angst, and the positivity 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.719 expressed in the songs. He talked about his past, his 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.960 struggles with addiction and childhood abuse, and he talked about 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.839 being a regular guy, about working hard, and about life 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:33.720 being good. The band had existed before Chester Bennington joined. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.600 They'd written songs, they'd played together, they had recorded, but 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.200 it only really came together once he was there to 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.560 add a voice and a face and a heart to 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.920 the music. It's no surprise that you notice says, now, 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.760 the future of the band is an open question. It's 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.439 tempting to hear all of post Traumatic as a reaction 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:56.280 to Bennington's death. Some songs aren't so sometimes even those 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.839 have a way of coming back to the subject. But 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.640 there's a post in post Traumatic for a reason. Mike 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.400 Shinoda is struggling to find the way to move forward, 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.839 and in one of his first in depth sit downs 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.760 since Chester Bennington's death, we talked about whether or not 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.400 there's a future for Lincoln Park, what it's going to 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:18.880 be like to go on tour playing his own music 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.360 and some Lincoln Park songs by himself on stage in 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:27.600 massive festivals, and how much Chester Bennington meant him. Let's 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.520 hear what Mike Shinoda has to say. So, how are you. 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:38.720 I'm good, Yeah, I'm good. Yeah. Tell me about putting 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.560 this record together. First, Let's start at the beginning. Now, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.280 the songs that we heard on the post Traumatic EP 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:50.720 seemed to very directly address Chester's death and your feelings afterwards. 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.480 But are you saying that there were other songs you 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:57.160 were making during that period that we're about something else 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.679 or or didn't fit into this project but had a 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.480 different direction. It was mostly that I was writing about 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.360 whatever was on my mind, so usually that would fit 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.400 under the umbrella of this album. I did a couple 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.839 of things that were a little more like stylistically like 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.079 way different, Like I've joked around. It was like the 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.400 sounded like like a bad Smashing Pumpkin song or like 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.680 a Nine Inch Nails song or something. Yeah, those just 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:24.920 didn't pan out like I did them for fun, just 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.320 to do it. But the vast majority of the stuff 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.320 I made became post traumatic. And there's sixteen songs on 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.320 the record, which is the longest album I've ever done 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.440 or been involved with. I should say, you know, it's autobiographical. 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.160 It had this live journal feel to it. I mean 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.600 it's journalistic in some sense, particularly once those videos started 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.120 coming out. Tell me about the process of putting together 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.680 those videos. There's place to start over again. I had 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:53.800 done the first few songs. I didn't know where it 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.200 was going to go, but I knew I had some songs, 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:58.720 and the first ones it seemed to me that it 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.640 should be in some chronological order or something that resembled that. 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.080 So the first few songs I had were the ones 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.840 you just named, and I decided At one point I 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.640 was listening back to them in my studio on the sofa, 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.080 and I pulled out my phone and I I had 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.160 this idea of what a video for that song could 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:16.600 look like, and I just pulled out my phone and 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:21.560 did a selfie video of it. I just saw the 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:23.200 look of the thing, and I thought that would actually 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:24.920 make a kind of cool video, so I just shot it, 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.320 and then later, having done that, I did another one, 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.360 and I did some more little shots and it became 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.720 stylistically that again, like autobiographical kind of depiction of what 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:40.120 I was doing felt like the right way to visually 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.400 represent the songs. What it did is it removed any 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.840 kind of like intermediary in the conversation. It was just 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.680 me talking to you right as opposed to like it's 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.680 being shot by a director. Here's Mike talking about this 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.800 really personal stuff, and we storyboarded out this really cool narrative. 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.360 All of that was removed, the feelings happening in time 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.160 and the songs being documented that way. Yes, And once 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.760 I did them, it became part of the visual aesthetic 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.440 of the whole thing. Part of the idea was from 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.640 the paintings that I was doing at the time, those 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.760 became the packaging, they became the merchandise. The videos and 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.360 the autobiographical nature. Just like the communication style is there 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.720 on the record, it's there in the visuals. In one sense, 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.440 it just blurs the line between real time social media 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.480 and videos and things that you don't usually think of 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:35.400 as a real time Like the most recent when I 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.960 did was for a song about you, which we just 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.640 put out a couple of weeks ago. Decided to put 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.720 it out. The week that we were putting it out, 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.400 I decided to shoot the video while I was out 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.600 promoting the record, and I flew to China. I was 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:51.400 already going to be out there to do some record 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.400 promo and shoot some stuff for tour announcements in Asia, 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.640 And while I was there, we shot the video and 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.800 then a few days later it was on the internet. 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.800 Like everything is in real time. And just to be 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.440 clear for people who haven't heard it, about you, like 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.119 a lot of songs on this record is addressing loss, 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.680 so about you. The idea of the song is even 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.040 when I don't think the song is about this, even 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:17.760 when I don't think the moment is about this, it 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.960 comes back to this, right or there's two versions of it. 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.920 Sometimes when I'm writing about something, it does come back 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:31.280 to the context of having lost Chester or the uncertainty 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.280 of the band's current situation. The other thing is, though, 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.160 that even when I actually don't write a song having 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.800 anything to do with those things, people see it through 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:42.920 that lens. So, in other words, just to put it 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.040 into somebody else's context entirely, so that you can see 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.480 where I'm coming from. Joe, if you have a public 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.800 breakup with a woman, let's say you get both super 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.080 celebrities and you're dating, this is going to be really imaginary. 0:17:55.160 --> 0:18:00.760 But okay, Scarlett Johansson, right, good for me. And then 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:04.760 you broke up and everyone's like, oh man, they broke up. 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:06.440 It's on the front page of all the things and 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:08.280 all that, and people are talking about it. And then 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:12.119 you go and you get coffee in your sweats and 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.080 they take pictures of you and it's like, oh see, 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.520 he's super depressed, Like didn't put on jeans in the 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:19.720 shirt today today it was sweats, Like he must be 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.080 super depressed. It's all about her. And then you get 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.080 a slice of pizza. You see he got the like 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.040 five different toppings could have been. Yeah, he's really hurting 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.920 right now. They see everything through this lens of like 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.960 what they think you're going through, and even if you're 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.160 like no, I literally just felt comfortable in my pj's 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.200 and I went and got a slice of pizza because 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.600 I like pizza. Guys, Like, that's all there is to it. 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.640 There's no reason to read further into it. But that's 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.840 just how our world works. They're gonna start seeing things 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.520 through that lens. In fact, just this weekend I had 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.240 my first show. Two shows. Actually, I did a double 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.440 header and did a radio show in the afternoon and 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.280 did a longer headline set in the evening. It was 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:01.240 in front of City Hall in l A. It was 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.320 part of an Asian festival. Really special way to like 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.280 kick things off. Perfect for me. I just loved it. 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.000 A couple of the journalists who came and wrote about 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.639 the events called it a tribute show. So I asked 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.399 online just today, I tweeted, did you guys think that 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.000 these were tribute shows? And if so, like, do you 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.400 feel like that means it was sad? Did it feel 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:28.480 like sad overall? Not that it didn't feel bitter sweet 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.080 at certain moments. There was definitely a tribute moment I 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.440 played in the end and we sang it together, just 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.639 piano and me and the crowd. You mentioned that you 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:40.200 were working these tracks chronologically, and I'm curious to know 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.920 is the album sequenced that way. For the most part, 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:47.520 it's not exact chronology. It doesn't follow exactly in the 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.840 order in which they were written or have happened, because 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.919 I did, as a listener have this sensation of getting 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:58.080 too not exactly the more upbeat songs, but definitely the 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.399 sense of as the tracks go on, I'm getting this 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:07.520 feeling of you're going on, You're moving on right, And 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.520 I think that one thing that's different about this album 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:15.080 than most albums I've put out, from all the Lincoln 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.119 Park albums to the fourth Minor album. Usually, when you 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.120 put out an album, it's hey, I finished a thing, 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.080 check out the thing I made. It's finished. And this 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.280 is almost like I started a thing, like this is 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.119 an album that captures a moment in time for the 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:33.600 last six to nine months, and it is what it is, 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.320 and now I'm going to continue to evolve and move 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.960 on from here. Because we get deeper into the album, 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:43.359 we come to these tracks like make it Up As 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:49.840 I go World's on Fire. These are songs that seemed 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.600 to me we're addressing the same sorts of problems or feelings. 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:55.159 Make it up as I go? How do I go? On? 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.800 Worlds on fire? This is a bad time. But they 0:20:57.840 --> 0:20:59.840 were also had another side to them. They had this 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.400 side of like, here's how I get past this? Yeah, 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.960 so like make it up as I go. Actually started 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.800 the hook of that we wrote towards the end of 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.240 One More Light. It was Brad and I and k Flay. 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:18.760 That song is more about in its inception of having 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.159 that feeling of like not knowing what the next steps are, 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.520 but you just kind of power through it and figure 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:26.480 it out as you go. And I thought, you know, 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.320 I came back to that song because I just always 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.720 loved it, And then I wrote the verses more recently. 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:34.960 I think that one relates a little more closely this 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.480 stuff of this last year. But the other one you 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:41.560 mentioned the World's on fire. When I wrote that one, 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:45.640 the course of that is basically the World's on fire, 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:47.360 But all I need is you. It's the first time 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:49.240 I've really written that kind of like it's like almost 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.159 like just a love song. I was specifically thinking of 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:56.320 my family It occurred to me because it was one 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:59.399 of those days when I was like really like up 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:02.280 to my eyeballs in my social media feed and it 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:04.800 seems like everything was just a mess. You know, you're 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:08.200 reading it's like the political tweets are firing and everybody's 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:12.280 like freaked out about the state of the country, in 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.080 the state of the world, and then environmental tweets and 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:18.440 like net neutrality tweets, and then on top of it, 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.639 like there's like five wildfires going on in Los Angeles 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:25.520 at the same time, so all of this is happening 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:29.080 at once, and all of that without the crap that 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.040 I had been through in the six months proceeding, that 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:35.120 would have been enough as it was, but all put 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:39.200 together was just like everything is just falling apart of 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.440 the seems what a mess. And then I can go 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:44.159 like sit down and play with my kids, and it 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.240 all kind of evaporates. And what's so interesting is receiving 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:53.199 it now. I connected to some comments you've made about 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:56.360 lost being like a wildfire. You know, things are destroyed 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:58.920 in a clear space for something new. But also there's 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:02.159 that image. The image of the wildfire is actually in 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.120 the Nothing makes Sense video. Keep in mind. I grew 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:06.720 up thinking I was going to be a painter. I 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:10.040 grew up in art. I went to school for illustration. 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:14.000 I've had three gallery shows now. The only reason I 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.960 haven't had more is because I'm busy with the playing music. 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:22.879 You know, there's that minor distraction in the world. Doing that, 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:25.240 I would do what I really want to do in 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.440 all seriousness. I grew up painting, And one of the 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:31.280