WEBVTT - #061 Jason Flom with De'Marchoe Carpenter and Malcolm Scott

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<v Speaker 1>I've never been in trouble in my life. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even have a parking ticket, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>I was brought up with cops are the good guys.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know what was going to happen, but I

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<v Speaker 1>do know that everything was stacked against me. Everything like everything.

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<v Speaker 3>This isn't supposed to happen this way. I'm innocent. I

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<v Speaker 3>know I'm innocent. I know I had nothing to do

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<v Speaker 3>with this. How is this possible?

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<v Speaker 4>I grew up trusting the systems. I've grew up believing

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<v Speaker 4>that every human being should do the right thing. And

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<v Speaker 4>that's why, even though I knew I was dealing with

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<v Speaker 4>corerough people, I wasn't going to break anyone to get

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<v Speaker 4>me out of prison because I wouldn't live with the

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<v Speaker 4>fact that I break my way out of my wife's death.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not innocent, too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I

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<v Speaker 1>prove my innocence. And that's absolutely what happened to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Our system. Since I've been out ten years, it has

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<v Speaker 1>come a little ways, but it's still broken.

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<v Speaker 4>I totally lost trusting humanity after what's happened to me.

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<v Speaker 2>This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction with

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<v Speaker 2>Jason flamm That's me, and today we're going to do

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<v Speaker 2>something we've never done before and I'm really excited about it.

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<v Speaker 2>We have two guests today, DeMarco Carpenter and Malcolm Scott,

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<v Speaker 2>who were co defendants and now are co exanarees, both

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<v Speaker 2>wrongfully convicted of a murder and both exonerated twenty two

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<v Speaker 2>years later. They were ultimately exonerated in an incredible twist

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<v Speaker 2>of fate when the actual killer, Michael Wilson, as he

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<v Speaker 2>was about to be executed, came clean and admitted, which

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<v Speaker 2>he had done previously, but he said it again that

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<v Speaker 2>he was the killer and that these men were not involved.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to hear this story to believe it. Guys,

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<v Speaker 2>I always say this, I'm sorry you're here, but I'm

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<v Speaker 2>happy you're here. So DeMarco Malcolm, welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for inviting us to the show.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, thank you. Jason. I really appreciate this opportunity

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<v Speaker 3>to even be here in the big city of New York.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a beautiful thing, and to be on your show

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<v Speaker 3>talking about something that I think is very very important

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<v Speaker 3>that the people need to hear.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's hot here in New York, just like Oklahoma.

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<v Speaker 2>So you guys probably feeling that at home, even though

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<v Speaker 2>it's got to be a little bit of culture shock too,

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<v Speaker 2>but it really was. So this is a Tulsa case,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's interesting because, well, DeMarco, your case has been

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<v Speaker 2>featured on The Buried, a live podcast which is based

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<v Speaker 2>on writings that you did in prison. And I've been

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<v Speaker 2>listening to that podcast, which I recommend everyone, and I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like I got a history lesson, you know, along

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<v Speaker 2>the way, which is really great. But you know, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a real significance to Oklahoma that I think is important

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<v Speaker 2>for people to know about. It is the incarceration capital

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<v Speaker 2>of the United States. Now it's now past Louisiana as

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<v Speaker 2>the place where there's more people locked up per capita

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<v Speaker 2>than anywhere else in the United States. And of course

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<v Speaker 2>the United States is the is the incarceration nation, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So you're dealing with the worst state in the worst

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<v Speaker 2>country in the world in that sense, and you guys

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<v Speaker 2>were caught up in that. So let's go back, because

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<v Speaker 2>this takes us back to the nineties, right, actually early nineties.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, you guys grew up, did you know each

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<v Speaker 2>other growing up?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, we actually did. We were friends before we

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<v Speaker 3>even got incarceros.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's Malcolm talking. You'll get used to the voices

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<v Speaker 2>on the air. But so you were friends growing up,

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<v Speaker 2>and you grew up in a rough neighborhood by anybody's definitily, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>definitely and so and I know I heard you talking

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<v Speaker 2>about it. Listen to the other podcast, the Birdy Live

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<v Speaker 2>podcast about how you were pretty much surrounded by people

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<v Speaker 2>who were in gangs. And because as I know, when

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<v Speaker 2>people read the description, they say these guys were suspected

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<v Speaker 2>gang members and stuff like that, and I think for

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people they say, WHOA, well, this guy

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't sell it, such a good guy. But in fact

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<v Speaker 2>that's a very nuanced situation, right, because you really didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have it. I thought you described as very eloquently. You

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<v Speaker 2>really don't have much of an option in that situation, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean you were never formally a gang member, but

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<v Speaker 2>you were friends with somebody.

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<v Speaker 1>Again, yes, all my friends. Everyone who I grew up

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<v Speaker 1>with was my friends, and some of them was in gang.

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<v Speaker 2>So right, so then the authorities try to paint that

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<v Speaker 2>picture and say this guy's gang affiliate or whatever it is, Right,

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<v Speaker 2>realizing that you have literally no options, like you can't

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<v Speaker 2>be an island in your own neighborhood, right, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>consequences that come with that as well. And was it

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<v Speaker 2>that the same situation for you, Malcolm, Oh.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, basically, I mean I grew up around gangs. I

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<v Speaker 3>mean a lot of older you know, people in my family,

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<v Speaker 3>friends that I had knew, actually went to school with.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, back then, it was much easier because

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<v Speaker 3>you didn't look at these people as game members. You

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<v Speaker 3>looked at them more these are just my friends. Before

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<v Speaker 3>they even get involved in the gangs or anything. We

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<v Speaker 3>were already friends and some of them were already my family.

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<v Speaker 3>So I didn't all of a sudden say, okay, we're

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<v Speaker 3>you're a game member. Now you're no longer my family,

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<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean. So when you hang out

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<v Speaker 3>with these people, you're just looking at them as everyday

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<v Speaker 3>family and friends, so you don't see it as how

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<v Speaker 3>the rest of the world may have seen them. So

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<v Speaker 3>when the situation occurs where you get seen with them

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<v Speaker 3>or something like that, they automatically think, oh, well, you

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<v Speaker 3>must be a game member also because you're with these people,

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<v Speaker 3>But they don't realize, hey.

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<v Speaker 2>This is my family, and that's where you live.

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<v Speaker 3>You know what I mean. This is where I live.

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<v Speaker 3>This is the people that grow around. We hang out sometimes.

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<v Speaker 3>That doesn't mean that I go do things that they

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<v Speaker 3>may do, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's geography, I mean, it's a big part of it.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's one thing I do want to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>before we get into the crazy details of your case

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<v Speaker 2>and the twenty two years that you guys spent in

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<v Speaker 2>prison for something that should have been clear from the

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<v Speaker 2>very beginning that you didn't do, and the very dramatic

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<v Speaker 2>way in which it came to light as a guy

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<v Speaker 2>who was about to be executed reiterated what he had

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<v Speaker 2>said all along, which was that you guys weren't the

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<v Speaker 2>guys that he was. And he was executed, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>for a separate crime that he committed, which he should

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<v Speaker 2>have been in prison in the first place for this crime,

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<v Speaker 2>and that person wouldn't have been killed, and that was

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<v Speaker 2>a terrible, brutal, beating crime, beating murder of a clerk

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<v Speaker 2>in an inconvenience store. But Tulsa has a particular significance

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<v Speaker 2>because of the fact that going back well one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>years now, right Tulsa was the sort of the epicenter

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<v Speaker 2>of black culture in the United States. It was called

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<v Speaker 2>the Black.

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<v Speaker 1>Wall Street, yes, nineteen twenty one, and.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think a lot of people are really as

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with that history as they should be. But it

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<v Speaker 2>was the place where you had a higher percentage of

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<v Speaker 2>African Americans who were doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, professional scholars. It

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<v Speaker 2>was the place to be, really and then that terrible

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<v Speaker 2>day happened. They call it the race riots, but in fact,

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't a race rise. It was a massacre and

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<v Speaker 2>a mass lynching. Yeah, and it's really one of the

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<v Speaker 2>most shameful days in the history of America when you

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<v Speaker 2>think about it. Can you explain what happened in that

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<v Speaker 2>situation because you're you obviously know the histors very well.

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<v Speaker 1>From what I understand, a white woman got in an

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<v Speaker 1>elevator along with a black man, and yeah, it was

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<v Speaker 1>a black man named Dick Rowland. And that's partially why

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<v Speaker 1>the whole incident of the nineteen twenty one race massacre happened.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, after they get in an elevator, no one

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<v Speaker 1>really knows what happened because only those two were in there.

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<v Speaker 1>And when the elevator came, it opened, she came running out,

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<v Speaker 1>crying and yelling and welling, and you know, no one

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<v Speaker 1>really knows what happened while they was innovator in the elevator.

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<v Speaker 1>But after that, you know, that's where it just it

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<v Speaker 1>went crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>Well what happened. What happened was he was arrested based

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<v Speaker 2>on her complaint to the authorities. Now, it is an

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<v Speaker 2>elevator ride. There's a limit to how much can happen

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<v Speaker 2>in an elevator ride. It wasn't even a skyscraper, right,

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about nineteen twenty one. But then he was

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<v Speaker 2>arrested and a lynch mob formed, and the sheriff wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>allow the mob to take this guy out of jail,

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<v Speaker 2>this rolling guy, and kill him. And because of that,

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<v Speaker 2>the anger grew and welled over into this riot that

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<v Speaker 2>involved burning down over a thousand homes, killing over three

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<v Speaker 2>hundred African American people, destroying basically every black owned business

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<v Speaker 2>in town, and turned what was this sort of oasis

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<v Speaker 2>of culture and community into literally a wasteland. You had

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<v Speaker 2>families that were missing fathers and mothers, You had you know,

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<v Speaker 2>hundreds of dead bodies, and basically all the businesses destroyed,

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<v Speaker 2>and so it's important to reflect on that as we

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<v Speaker 2>fast forward to the time that you guys grew up

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<v Speaker 2>in in the eighties and nineties, where Tulsa had become

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<v Speaker 2>a very violent or that area of Tulsa that you

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<v Speaker 2>lived in had become a violent ghetto, you know, And

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<v Speaker 2>there's at least a case to be made that gangs

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<v Speaker 2>may have originated as a means of community members trying

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<v Speaker 2>to protect themselves from this sort of a massacre. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>not forget there were machine guns involved right back then.

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<v Speaker 2>There were people spraying like government people with.

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<v Speaker 1>The flag issues.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, so, I mean, it's really impossible to overstate

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<v Speaker 2>the horror of what happened. But you know, and no

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<v Speaker 2>one's trying to justify gang behavior and what it's becoming

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<v Speaker 2>the modern day. But when you look at the history,

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<v Speaker 2>it's sort of it does put a certain, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>context in it that's important for everyone to be aware of.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's fast forward to September tenth, nineteen ninety four,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a day that a nineteen year old woman

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<v Speaker 2>named Karen Summers was fatally shot in the back and

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<v Speaker 2>two young men, sixteen year old men boys were injured

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<v Speaker 2>both of them shot Alonzo Johnson and Kenneth Price, and

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<v Speaker 2>it seemed like originally they found the right guy, but

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<v Speaker 2>they how did it get so screwed up? Where they

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<v Speaker 2>had that? And this always makes me crazy and I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't even go through it. But they originally targeted Michael Wilson,

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<v Speaker 2>who was the actual perpetrator, but somehow or other has

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<v Speaker 2>shifted to you guys what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>And Marco Wilson he also got caught with the murder

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<v Speaker 1>weapon and the car used in this drive by. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's where it gets crazy when it shift shifts to us,

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<v Speaker 1>you know.

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<v Speaker 2>So wait, so this crime, this really came with instructions, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you're right out of the police academy. This

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<v Speaker 2>one's like a gift here, right, I got the whole

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<v Speaker 2>thing for you on a silver plotter. Yes, So why

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<v Speaker 2>would they go off that they got the guy? Did

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<v Speaker 2>they particularly want you guys? For some reason?

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<v Speaker 1>I believe that Michael Wilson was informant and once he

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<v Speaker 1>got caught, you know, they didn't want to let him

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<v Speaker 1>go away. They want to still use him. But once

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<v Speaker 1>he caught that other case two months later, that's when

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<v Speaker 1>you know they couldn't deny, Okay, we can't save him now.

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<v Speaker 2>They were willing to turn a blind eye to the

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<v Speaker 2>murder of Karen Summers as well as the shooting of

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<v Speaker 2>these two other young men who hopefully recovered, and they

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<v Speaker 2>were willing to allow this guy who they knew was

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<v Speaker 2>a killer, to stay on the streets just to protect

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<v Speaker 2>their own Well, it's for their convenience, right that they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to continue to use him as an informant.

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<v Speaker 1>And on top of that, those was black kids. They

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<v Speaker 1>didn't care that, you know, the crime was committed against

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<v Speaker 1>black So it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Black and black and he was black, that the kids

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<v Speaker 2>were black that was shot. You guys were black. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of like everybody's kind of disposable, including you

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<v Speaker 2>two guys who are going to go to prison for

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of your life. Yes, So was it Wilson

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<v Speaker 2>that decided, Hey, I'm gonna save myself and just give

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<v Speaker 2>up a couple of names of guys I know from

0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>the area, or how did that? Do you understand how

0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:39.160
<v Speaker 2>that happened?

0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.920
<v Speaker 3>I think me myself, I believe that they had made

0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:47.240
<v Speaker 3>some mistakes with Wilson, Like I think they had went

0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.640
<v Speaker 3>into his house illegally, got the gun. You know, they

0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.440
<v Speaker 3>had made a lot of formal mistakes. I believe that

0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:59.240
<v Speaker 3>hadn't they not allowed him to cooperate with them, they

0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:03.240
<v Speaker 3>would have all been basically destroyed the case because I

0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.760
<v Speaker 3>think like if they had not been able to go

0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.280
<v Speaker 3>in there, into his house and get that murder weapon,

0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:10.480
<v Speaker 3>they wouldn't have been able to go into his car,

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.599
<v Speaker 3>they wouldn't have any of that evidence. I think that

0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 3>they didn't been able to use but once they did

0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.840
<v Speaker 3>it without any type of search and seizure, because there

0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.280
<v Speaker 3>was never any search and seizure, warrant or anything to

0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 3>go in his house and get that murder weapon, you see.

0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.480
<v Speaker 3>So I truly believe like the police had made a

0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.760
<v Speaker 3>lot of mistakes within the case that they wanted to

0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.520
<v Speaker 3>cover up and they would have lost the case had

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.520
<v Speaker 3>they not allowed Michael Wilson to cooperate and help them

0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 3>bring someone else into the case, you know. And I

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.160
<v Speaker 3>think because we seen them that night, that was a

0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.800
<v Speaker 3>perfect opportunity for them to use us.

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:53.200
<v Speaker 2>And the bullet recovered from the body of the victim, well,

0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.160
<v Speaker 2>there are three victims, but the woman who was murdered,

0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Karen Sovers, that was traced or matched with the gun

0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:03.800
<v Speaker 2>that was used in the shooting. Right, So again another bullseye,

0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.280
<v Speaker 2>so to speak of evidence. And then they found around

0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.679
<v Speaker 2>a way around that, right by saying that he has

0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:12.439
<v Speaker 2>lend you the bullets.

0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Or I mean gave me three bullets. And I don't understand,

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.880
<v Speaker 1>like three bullets. Three victims and three bullets, but he

0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.680
<v Speaker 1>had gave me the bullets. And you know, it still

0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:21.440
<v Speaker 1>doesn't make sense.

0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Is that like a common thing for someone to just

0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:27.960
<v Speaker 2>give somebody some bullets like here like under the Christmas tree, or.

0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't even understand that, Like here's three bullets, and

0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.200
<v Speaker 1>that's what he said, three bullets. He gave me three.

0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Bullets, and you just had three lucky shots.

0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Three lucky shots.

0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 2>There was only three you needed.

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 1>That's all I needed.

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Were you like an expert marksman at seventeen years old?

0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Had you been in the military?

0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Never? Never? Right, I know that that's just ludicrous.

0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:47.040
<v Speaker 2>The whole thing is. I mean, it would be funny

0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.960
<v Speaker 2>if not for the of the consequences not only to you,

0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.200
<v Speaker 2>but to the other victim, which is again and I

0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.040
<v Speaker 2>talk about this all the time on the show, and

0:14:54.120 --> 0:15:00.280
<v Speaker 2>roful conviction, the idea that Wilson was free after period

0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:04.080
<v Speaker 2>of time and went off and committed this this gruesome

0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.920
<v Speaker 2>murder where he beats literally beats somebody.

0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:10.680
<v Speaker 1>Literally beat somebody to death with a bat.

0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.880
<v Speaker 2>And and it was just a clerk in a convenience store.

0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.320
<v Speaker 2>This was like, I mean, nobody deserves that favor. This

0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:18.080
<v Speaker 2>is an innocent person who is he and his family

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.640
<v Speaker 2>and and his friends, everybody are victims in this, in

0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:28.000
<v Speaker 2>this in this sort of uh, this conspiracy to frame

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.960
<v Speaker 2>you guys. I mean, there's not It's not only you

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.520
<v Speaker 2>and your families that are victimized society, right because that

0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:36.360
<v Speaker 2>that guy working in the store, who knows what he

0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.440
<v Speaker 2>was going to go do with his life, right and be.

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.680
<v Speaker 3>Left behind the wife and two children.

0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, that's really just to think about that. Yeah, well,

0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's it's sort of I don't doesn't listen.

0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of things in the world I don't understand,

0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 2>especially these days, but that's one of them. I don't

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 2>understand how people can sleep at night when they go

0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.080
<v Speaker 2>around and I'm speaking specifically in this case about the

0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 2>the police and the prosecutors. And I always say on

0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 2>this show, there's a lot of good police and a

0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.280
<v Speaker 2>lot of good prosecutors out there, but the bad ones

0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.120
<v Speaker 2>do a tremendous amount of damage, and the ripple effect

0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.560
<v Speaker 2>of that damage can be felt throughout the community, and

0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:16.880
<v Speaker 2>it puts everybody at risk when when this is allowed

0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.840
<v Speaker 2>to this stuff is allowed to continue it and it does.

0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.680
<v Speaker 2>It's it's horrible. So you guys, now you find yourselves

0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.760
<v Speaker 2>arrested and charged with this murder? Did you have alibis?

0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.360
<v Speaker 2>Did you have I mean, I'm assuming you had public

0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:30.720
<v Speaker 2>defenders in the case.

0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.680
<v Speaker 1>Right, Oh, yeah, definitely public defenders and I did have

0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.360
<v Speaker 1>an alibi. We both had alabaia.

0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:39.400
<v Speaker 3>I'm actually pretty good alabasa. I mean people who are citizens,

0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 3>never being convicted of any crimes or anything. And my

0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 3>attorney never even called them up there to testify for us.

0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:48.520
<v Speaker 3>He told us, who, Well, you probably won't even really

0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.600
<v Speaker 3>need them, you know, they don't really have nothing on you.

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Guys, won't really need the witnesses who could make sure

0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:56.240
<v Speaker 2>that you don't go to person for the rest of

0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.320
<v Speaker 2>your life. Not I would be like, why you don't.

0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.280
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like a lot of extra time. Guy probably

0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:01.960
<v Speaker 2>had places to.

0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.400
<v Speaker 3>Be, you know what I mean, And I don't understand it, But.

0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and you're you're living through this as I mean,

0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.360
<v Speaker 2>still you're you know, you're you're closer to a I mean,

0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.399
<v Speaker 2>you're you're halfway between a child and a man at

0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.480
<v Speaker 2>that point, right, because we know that that the brain,

0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.120
<v Speaker 2>adolescent brain doesn't fully fom until twenty five years old,

0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.760
<v Speaker 2>so you're eight years away from that, and this whole

0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.719
<v Speaker 2>thing is spinning around you. And you got this lawyer

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.879
<v Speaker 2>telling you, I mean, did you let me ask you

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.840
<v Speaker 2>this public defender? Yeah? Was he represented? We represent?

0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? We had two different ones, but they was both trash.

0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:37.280
<v Speaker 2>And you were. You were tried together. Yes, so you

0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:41.120
<v Speaker 2>had two public defenders who were useless. I don't really

0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:42.720
<v Speaker 2>understand how.

0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:47.119
<v Speaker 1>Who in which my public defender, Steven Sewell, after I

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.760
<v Speaker 1>got found guilty, he went over and worked for the

0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>district attorney.

0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:56.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, there does raise a couple of interesting Oh yeah, yeah,

0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:57.320
<v Speaker 2>those questions, right.

0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.320
<v Speaker 3>I truly believe there was a lot of, you know.

0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:01.960
<v Speaker 2>A little shady dealing.

0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.360
<v Speaker 3>Things going on up under the table, behind the scenes.

0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:06.919
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I mean that just as much as I

0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.280
<v Speaker 3>was saying earlier about a lot of mistakes that the

0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.680
<v Speaker 3>police had made and were covering up. I mean, once

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.400
<v Speaker 3>you made a mistake like that, and then this guy

0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.399
<v Speaker 3>that you let out goes and you know, murders a

0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.440
<v Speaker 3>guy in cold blood beats him to death. You have

0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.800
<v Speaker 3>to continue to charade. You cannot admit, now, well we

0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.040
<v Speaker 3>made a mistake on these other guys and let him

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.560
<v Speaker 3>out to do this, right, you can't admit that to

0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 3>the public.

0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Was the guy who was killed? Was the guy's name

0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:33.760
<v Speaker 2>was killed in the store?

0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:34.879
<v Speaker 3>Richard Yost?

0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Richard Yost? Was he white or black?

0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:37.080
<v Speaker 3>He was white?

0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Right? Even worse for them then, right, because now they're

0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.960
<v Speaker 2>responsible for the death of a white citizen. Right. Yeah,

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.000
<v Speaker 2>And it's back to the Tulsa thing, which is such

0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.199
<v Speaker 2>a strange place when you look at it at the history.

0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.000
<v Speaker 2>So oh yeah, So at that point you were really

0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, here, isn't that ironic too, because here you

0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:57.720
<v Speaker 2>got this guy who two months and it sort of

0:18:57.720 --> 0:18:59.159
<v Speaker 2>reminds me of the Central Park five ks in a

0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:03.240
<v Speaker 2>certain way. But two months after you guys are wrongly arrested,

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.480
<v Speaker 2>and they ignore the fact that they knew because they knew,

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:06.600
<v Speaker 2>they knew Wilson was the guy.

0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh, they definitely knew.

0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.280
<v Speaker 2>They definitely knew this. Like I said, this one was

0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:13.120
<v Speaker 2>obvious as obvious as could be, and not just in hindsight,

0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:17.879
<v Speaker 2>but right at the time. So you would think in

0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:23.160
<v Speaker 2>an objective way that once this once you guys found

0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.720
<v Speaker 2>out that he had gone on and killed this guy Yost,

0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.840
<v Speaker 2>you would go, well, okay, that proves that this guy

0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:31.800
<v Speaker 2>was the guy and we should be going home now.

0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.800
<v Speaker 2>But in fact it actually had the opposite effect, because

0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.600
<v Speaker 2>it caused them to dig in deeper, dig their heels

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:42.320
<v Speaker 2>in deeper into this false narrative that they were promoting.

0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.920
<v Speaker 2>And so it actually was even worse than the fact

0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that this guy had gone and committed this other horrible crime.

0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.320
<v Speaker 1>And on top of that, ten months prior to that,

0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.000
<v Speaker 1>this whole incident with Karen Sum and Michael Wilson, I

0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:59.760
<v Speaker 1>was shot. I got shot ten months prior to that.

0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:01.159
<v Speaker 2>How that happens.

0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.280
<v Speaker 1>I was at the Old It was a club called

0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.359
<v Speaker 1>the Wagon Wheel, and it was a lot of older

0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:11.280
<v Speaker 1>people and an old man, some youngsters. Some young guys

0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.040
<v Speaker 1>robbed this old man, and the old man came back

0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.399
<v Speaker 1>and shot the club up. That's at least one of

0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.720
<v Speaker 1>the stories I heard. I've heard many stories of who

0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 1>shot that club up that night.

0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.520
<v Speaker 2>So I just came in guns blazing into a dark club.

0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:25.520
<v Speaker 1>It was a drive by, and to this day, I

0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 1>don't know what happened or who who did it, But

0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, I had a colostomy bag. You know, I

0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:34.639
<v Speaker 1>wore a colostomy bag for three years, and you know

0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.200
<v Speaker 1>I had a brace on this arm over here, and

0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.720
<v Speaker 1>they took muscles out my leg to put in my

0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 1>stomach and a trachiostomy and all that. So fast forward

0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.240
<v Speaker 1>into the time of the crime. When they arrest me,

0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:50.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm in no physical condition to you know, do get

0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:52.679
<v Speaker 1>around and do nothing barely, you know, I can. I

0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.280
<v Speaker 1>have a brace on my arm. I'm sixty three, one

0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.320
<v Speaker 1>hundred and sixty three pounds, soaking wet, you know, and

0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm healthy, you know, I'm barely walking. I had to

0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:04.560
<v Speaker 1>learn how to walk. I was in the hospital for

0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.479
<v Speaker 1>three months, and you can check the records, but I

0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.480
<v Speaker 1>was in the hospital three months, you know. And two

0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:12.919
<v Speaker 1>months after being released from the hospital, they took the

0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:14.720
<v Speaker 1>pins out of my arm because I had pins on

0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.879
<v Speaker 1>my arm and I had a brace. When I was arrested,

0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:19.800
<v Speaker 1>I had a brace on my arm and they told

0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.600
<v Speaker 1>me I couldn't wear his brace in the county jail.

0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.919
<v Speaker 1>So you know my arm is you know, they actually

0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:27.840
<v Speaker 1>wanted to cut my arm off. My mama told him, no,

0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.800
<v Speaker 1>don't cut my baby's arm off. So, you know, and

0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:32.560
<v Speaker 1>that's on top of everything else.

0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna cut your arm off, cut my arm off, yes,

0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:37.800
<v Speaker 2>because it's inconvenient to have you in there with the

0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:38.360
<v Speaker 2>brace hunt.

0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes. And it just so happened Malcolm this night that

0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.000
<v Speaker 1>when I was shot, Malcolm was there and his cousin,

0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Big Marlon Williams, and they saved my life.

0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:48.000
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:49.560
<v Speaker 1>They picked me up, put me in the back of

0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:53.919
<v Speaker 1>Marlin's car, was headed to the hospital. Saw ambulamps flagged

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.639
<v Speaker 1>him down and you know, and that saved my life.

0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:59.600
<v Speaker 2>So you were shot in the stomach, in the arm, yes,

0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.600
<v Speaker 2>and he's you guys. You can't see it on the

0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:04.840
<v Speaker 2>on the radio obviously, but he just showed me the

0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.160
<v Speaker 2>scars in there. That's no joke. I mean, it wasn't

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.919
<v Speaker 2>a grazing wound. It was like this is I mean,

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:12.920
<v Speaker 2>you were really shot.

0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure. I've heard five. I heard seven, two

0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.359
<v Speaker 1>different caliber gun so I'm not sure.

0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:21.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, you don't even don't have that many times?

0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Shot twice? Yeah, so this guy came like spreading both.

0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:28.720
<v Speaker 1>Yes, it was definitely it was a real drive by.

0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:32.479
<v Speaker 3>Whoever opened that door he was gonna shoot him. And

0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.439
<v Speaker 3>because like when the door opened, because I think you

0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:38.439
<v Speaker 3>were in front of me and I was behind him,

0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:41.439
<v Speaker 3>and it was like a it was an older, older

0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.880
<v Speaker 3>guy coming out too, and as we're all going out,

0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.880
<v Speaker 3>as soon as the door opened, we heard the shots.

0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.280
<v Speaker 3>It was immediate then, you know so and he was

0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:54.800
<v Speaker 3>shot right there in the door because he was the

0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:57.399
<v Speaker 3>first one out the door. And I remember standing behind

0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.560
<v Speaker 3>him because I had got shot in the leg or

0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:01.920
<v Speaker 3>you got shot too, Yeah, yeah, I didn't get none

0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.120
<v Speaker 3>of what he got. I just got basically it went

0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:09.680
<v Speaker 3>in and out the leg. He got shot with basically

0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:12.240
<v Speaker 3>most of everything. And then there was another older guy

0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:15.159
<v Speaker 3>that was coming out with us he got shot also.

0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:18.639
<v Speaker 1>It was like three, like three or four. Eleven people

0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:21.440
<v Speaker 1>got shot. Eleven people got shot.

0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:23.760
<v Speaker 3>Because he didn't. It wasn't so much as a drive by.

0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:28.200
<v Speaker 3>He actually stopped the car like when that door came open.

0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.080
<v Speaker 3>Because when he the Marco got shot, he fell into

0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:33.359
<v Speaker 3>the door. He didn't realize that. He didn't know. I

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:36.399
<v Speaker 3>can probably tell you a story better because he was unconscious,

0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:38.720
<v Speaker 3>like he fell right there in the door once he

0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:42.439
<v Speaker 3>got hit, so the door his body kept the door open.

0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:47.080
<v Speaker 3>So once the dude continued to shoot whoever was out there,

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.120
<v Speaker 3>because it's a small little dance floor that's like right

0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.760
<v Speaker 3>there in front of this little, you know, little juke joint,

0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:55.000
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean. And uh so everybody who

0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:56.720
<v Speaker 3>was out there kind of basically on that dance was

0:23:56.760 --> 0:23:59.280
<v Speaker 3>probably some of those eleven people that got shot because

0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:01.280
<v Speaker 3>the dude was still shooting into the door. Once he

0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:03.800
<v Speaker 3>fell into the door well with the door and held

0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:07.040
<v Speaker 3>the door open with his body, the guy was still shooting.

0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:10.840
<v Speaker 2>Man, you had some some couple of months there, Jesus Christ,

0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:26.679
<v Speaker 2>both of you guys, you go to trial and your

0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:30.520
<v Speaker 2>attorney's are dumb and dumber basically, right, basically, Well, and

0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:33.359
<v Speaker 2>that's being kind because we don't know that one of

0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:36.440
<v Speaker 2>them wasn't at least one of them wasn't actually making

0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:36.960
<v Speaker 2>a deal.

0:24:36.920 --> 0:24:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Because he worked in the attorney's office after I got convicted, right, I.

0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:48.600
<v Speaker 3>Think originally we had Steve Sewell together, we had the

0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:52.000
<v Speaker 3>same attorney together originally, I guess, and then once he

0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:55.240
<v Speaker 3>went on for other they separated it and they brought

0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:58.840
<v Speaker 3>on Michael Harris, who was my attorney, and he took

0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:01.920
<v Speaker 3>over my part of my our case. I think Steve

0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:04.320
<v Speaker 3>Sewell did his part. And they were supposed to work together.

0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:07.040
<v Speaker 3>We still want to try out together. You know, they

0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:09.159
<v Speaker 3>were having issues where they weren't even really wanted to

0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:12.800
<v Speaker 3>work together. Like I said, it was really you know,

0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:17.400
<v Speaker 3>kind of let's push these guys under the rug. Let's

0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:19.400
<v Speaker 3>get them out of the way. You know, we don't

0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:23.359
<v Speaker 3>we don't need this type of you know, bad publicity

0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:28.240
<v Speaker 3>upon this, especially this serious death penalty case, which was

0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:31.280
<v Speaker 3>Michael Wilson. You know, that kind of took over as

0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:33.920
<v Speaker 3>a more serious case because you know, of course it

0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:38.119
<v Speaker 3>was a death penalty situation, and you know it, here

0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:40.920
<v Speaker 3>was this guy who was a clerk at a you know,

0:25:41.000 --> 0:25:44.200
<v Speaker 3>convenience story to lose his life for wife and children,

0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:47.600
<v Speaker 3>small children left behind. So it was more of a

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 3>story book for people to want to look at and

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:56.960
<v Speaker 3>for them to admit, hey, we let this guy out

0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:00.199
<v Speaker 3>to do this. You know. I think that that that

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:03.840
<v Speaker 3>in itself was very, very I think important and key

0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:08.440
<v Speaker 3>in the in their pursuit to make sure that they

0:26:08.520 --> 0:26:09.480
<v Speaker 3>convicted us.

0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:12.000
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I can't let this go without talking

0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:15.199
<v Speaker 2>about the fact that in America, the I don't have

0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:18.320
<v Speaker 2>the exact statistics in front of me, but the odds

0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:23.080
<v Speaker 2>of a of the death penalty being of a sentence

0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:26.600
<v Speaker 2>being given of death when it's a black perpetrator and

0:26:26.640 --> 0:26:30.760
<v Speaker 2>a white victim are exponentially higher than if it's the

0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:32.600
<v Speaker 2>other way around, or even if it's black on black

0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:35.239
<v Speaker 2>or even white on white crime. And that's something that

0:26:35.320 --> 0:26:39.360
<v Speaker 2>persists from you know, uh, from from back in the day,

0:26:39.440 --> 0:26:42.280
<v Speaker 2>and it's it's uh, I mean, look, we should have

0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:46.720
<v Speaker 2>a death penalty anyway, in my opinion, but but certainly

0:26:46.760 --> 0:26:51.119
<v Speaker 2>it's not. It's not meeted out in a manner that

0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:54.640
<v Speaker 2>is fair. If there could even be such a thing.

0:26:54.840 --> 0:26:57.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, it has a it has a clear racial bias,

0:26:58.520 --> 0:27:03.000
<v Speaker 2>and it's not it's not something that anybody of good

0:27:03.040 --> 0:27:05.119
<v Speaker 2>conscience should be okay with. And I always say that

0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:07.000
<v Speaker 2>people when I talk to somebody who's in favor of

0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:10.040
<v Speaker 2>the death penalty, my thing is, well, what percentage of

0:27:10.040 --> 0:27:13.080
<v Speaker 2>innocent people are you okay with executing? Oh no, no, I'm

0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:15.920
<v Speaker 2>executing people I don't know well. But but you now

0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:19.000
<v Speaker 2>say to somebody who had this conversation with somebody recently, Well,

0:27:19.200 --> 0:27:21.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, the system doesn't work. Oh yeah, yeah, but

0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:24.800
<v Speaker 2>the system doesn't work that good. There's a lot of corruption. Okay,

0:27:24.840 --> 0:27:26.600
<v Speaker 2>So then I'll go back to the same question. What

0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:29.239
<v Speaker 2>percentage of innocent people are you okay with? Is it

0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:31.960
<v Speaker 2>ten percent? Is it one percent? Which people? How do

0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:35.199
<v Speaker 2>you like? Because you can't you can't look at it

0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:37.320
<v Speaker 2>any other way the system and somebody say, oh, we've

0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:40.720
<v Speaker 2>got to fix the system, wouldn't Yeah, okay, it's what

0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:44.280
<v Speaker 2>are you talking about. It's so broken and it never

0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:48.160
<v Speaker 2>could be it could be fixed, you know. It's it's

0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:51.760
<v Speaker 2>impossible to have a perfect system, even if everybody is

0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:53.959
<v Speaker 2>doing their job the way they're supposed to. Even if

0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:56.640
<v Speaker 2>you had in your case, you hit the jackpot, right,

0:27:56.640 --> 0:27:59.520
<v Speaker 2>the reverse jackpot, because you had you had cops and

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:02.960
<v Speaker 2>prosecuts who were willing to lie and cover up and

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:07.560
<v Speaker 2>uh and do whatever they had to do, and you

0:28:07.600 --> 0:28:10.479
<v Speaker 2>had incompetent defense attorneys. If all those things didn't line up,

0:28:10.520 --> 0:28:12.760
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe that you guys would have been convicted.

0:28:12.840 --> 0:28:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, no, because I mean even if you had,

0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:17.399
<v Speaker 2>and when were these the witnesses who were prepared to

0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:19.919
<v Speaker 2>testify as to your both your alibis. Were they in

0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the court.

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:23.000
<v Speaker 1>In the courtroom, they were right there, yeah, right there.

0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it would have been as difficult as uh,

0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:28.600
<v Speaker 2>I would like to call the witness your honor. Okay,

0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:30.399
<v Speaker 2>that would have been it, and the next thing, you know,

0:28:30.400 --> 0:28:31.879
<v Speaker 2>they would have been on the stand going no, no, no,

0:28:31.920 --> 0:28:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Malcolm was over at my spot or whatever the hell

0:28:34.080 --> 0:28:37.399
<v Speaker 2>it was, right, But there was too much trouble for

0:28:37.440 --> 0:28:40.040
<v Speaker 2>the defense attorney. I mean, were you when this was

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:43.760
<v Speaker 2>going on? Were you there like elbowing your guy going

0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:44.560
<v Speaker 2>hey hey Carl.

0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:47.760
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, yeah, I mean I gave them, I gave

0:28:47.800 --> 0:28:50.680
<v Speaker 3>him the full names of everyone.

0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:52.479
<v Speaker 2>No what I mean when you're in the courtroom, right

0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:56.120
<v Speaker 2>you're you're you're experiencing this, this horror show unfolding in

0:28:56.160 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 2>real time. You know the rest of your life is

0:28:57.560 --> 0:29:01.280
<v Speaker 2>at stake. You're seventeen years old and you know the

0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:04.840
<v Speaker 2>witnesses are sitting right behind you. Are you able to

0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:06.880
<v Speaker 2>actually tell your attorney, hey, I want you to.

0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:10.560
<v Speaker 1>Call Yes, yes, I told Suid, hey, hey, call this

0:29:10.640 --> 0:29:14.560
<v Speaker 1>person here, call Melissa Shields. She was there. She you know,

0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:18.040
<v Speaker 1>he didn't call none of the people, my brothers, you know,

0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:20.560
<v Speaker 1>all these people who was there at my house, you know,

0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:23.120
<v Speaker 1>LORI omen all these different witnesses who were there in

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:25.680
<v Speaker 1>the courtroom, at least five or six people that they

0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:27.280
<v Speaker 1>could have called. He didn't call any of.

0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:29.600
<v Speaker 2>Them, even though telling them, yeah, call him, and I'm.

0:29:29.440 --> 0:29:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Telling them, hey, right there, you know, he said this here.

0:29:32.040 --> 0:29:35.280
<v Speaker 1>That's not true because I'm writing stuff down at you know,

0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:38.280
<v Speaker 1>or whispering, is ir, that's not true. He said this here,

0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, call this person, this person right here. They

0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:43.920
<v Speaker 1>can you know, they can tell you the truth.

0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Basically, this is like, I mean, I think everybody's had

0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:49.040
<v Speaker 2>that dream in their life at least one of drowning. Right.

0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:52.480
<v Speaker 2>This is literally like you're watching yourself drown in real time.

0:29:53.080 --> 0:29:56.920
<v Speaker 2>And so this, this whole procedure took.

0:29:56.960 --> 0:29:59.040
<v Speaker 3>How long travel was backlow today?

0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:00.160
<v Speaker 1>I want to say three?

0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:04.400
<v Speaker 3>Was it three? The last was they deliberate for nine hours?

0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:06.640
<v Speaker 1>They deliberated nine hours nine hours?

0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Was the jury? What was it make up of the jury?

0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:12.080
<v Speaker 3>It was all white, all white, one black? Was it

0:30:12.760 --> 0:30:15.680
<v Speaker 3>the old lady? Yeah? I remember it was an old lady.

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:19.960
<v Speaker 3>I remember because they asked her some questions and they

0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:23.880
<v Speaker 3>asked her and she said, yeah, I volunteer tier for

0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:27.560
<v Speaker 3>the police. Department. I do some kind of volunteer work

0:30:27.600 --> 0:30:30.960
<v Speaker 3>for the police, and they still allowed her to be

0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:33.600
<v Speaker 3>up there. So, like my lawyer was like, this is

0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:35.480
<v Speaker 3>the best we can get.

0:30:36.000 --> 0:30:38.480
<v Speaker 2>So the one black juror worked for the police department.

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:41.280
<v Speaker 3>She was a volunteer, she said, she did volunteer work

0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:44.120
<v Speaker 3>for the police. This was our one black juror.

0:30:44.880 --> 0:30:45.040
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:47.480
<v Speaker 3>And I'm like, aren't you going to be trying to

0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:49.640
<v Speaker 3>get rid of her. She's saying, she's well, she's the

0:30:49.720 --> 0:30:52.800
<v Speaker 3>only black up there. That's all we got. And I'm like,

0:30:54.160 --> 0:30:56.680
<v Speaker 3>that's not helping us, Like I mean, that's gonna make

0:30:56.720 --> 0:30:57.680
<v Speaker 3>it worse if anything.

0:30:57.800 --> 0:31:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Like wow, it's just really And she did some more

0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:02.080
<v Speaker 2>volunteer work for the police department, like convicting you guys.

0:31:02.200 --> 0:31:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:31:02.480 --> 0:31:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Right, So then this trial, you know it, it's amazing

0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:10.640
<v Speaker 2>when you look at the elapsed time in the different areas. Right,

0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:14.520
<v Speaker 2>So you're in jail for over a year waiting your trial,

0:31:15.000 --> 0:31:19.880
<v Speaker 2>and then the trial takes two days, maybe three days. Nothing,

0:31:20.200 --> 0:31:22.000
<v Speaker 2>It's gone in the blink of an eye. I mean

0:31:22.080 --> 0:31:25.920
<v Speaker 2>civil trials take a lot longer than that. So two

0:31:26.000 --> 0:31:28.600
<v Speaker 2>or three days you're in court. So the jury goes

0:31:28.640 --> 0:31:30.640
<v Speaker 2>out and they're deliberating. Did you think you had a

0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:32.840
<v Speaker 2>chance in hell of been exonerate or were you basically

0:31:32.880 --> 0:31:35.680
<v Speaker 2>at this point like this, we're done me personally.

0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:39.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, I believe that I was innocent, So I

0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:41.480
<v Speaker 1>was like, ain't no way that they can convict us

0:31:41.520 --> 0:31:45.360
<v Speaker 1>even though all this evidence is against us. We were innocent.

0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:47.320
<v Speaker 1>We were innocent.

0:31:48.200 --> 0:31:50.320
<v Speaker 2>What about you, Malcolm? Did you believe in the system

0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:52.760
<v Speaker 2>even before this? And when they went out? I mean,

0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:54.400
<v Speaker 2>were you guys able to talk to each other?

0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:58.320
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, we were, well, we were sitting waiting for

0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:01.040
<v Speaker 3>the jury's deliberation. I think we were up there together.

0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:03.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I felt like, and why they just

0:32:04.120 --> 0:32:05.800
<v Speaker 1>not to cut you off? But why they We was

0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:08.560
<v Speaker 1>waiting on them today deliberate. And they came back and

0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:11.760
<v Speaker 1>told us that, you know, we can cop settle out

0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:15.160
<v Speaker 1>for some time. They offered us a deal. Why are

0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:16.680
<v Speaker 1>we waiting on the jury to deliberate.

0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:17.440
<v Speaker 2>What was the deal?

0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:19.920
<v Speaker 1>I remember they came back with eight years for me

0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:21.280
<v Speaker 1>and you too.

0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:22.680
<v Speaker 3>No, they never came to me.

0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Why they deliberated. They came. They wanted me to test.

0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:28.480
<v Speaker 1>They wanted me to say, Malcolm did it?

0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:29.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Yeah?

0:32:30.080 --> 0:32:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Why they deliberating?

0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:37.400
<v Speaker 3>They kept trying to get him to to take me down.

0:32:37.680 --> 0:32:37.880
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:40.280
<v Speaker 3>I think it was because the evidence was looking funny,

0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:43.760
<v Speaker 3>so they were really pushing for him to you know,

0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 3>kept giving him offers of smaller centiences, but he wouldn't

0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:49.760
<v Speaker 3>take it right.

0:32:49.840 --> 0:32:52.440
<v Speaker 2>And isn't that interesting too, because if they actually thought

0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:54.080
<v Speaker 2>that you were a murderer, there's no way to go

0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:57.800
<v Speaker 2>on for you eight years. So they arrested you for

0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:00.560
<v Speaker 2>a crime and didn't commit, then didn't want to cut

0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:02.880
<v Speaker 2>your arm off, and now they're trying to get you

0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:05.680
<v Speaker 2>to cut your friend off right in a symbolic way

0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:09.400
<v Speaker 2>and still go to prison for right here. It's like, oh,

0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:11.720
<v Speaker 2>and by the way, we have something behind door number three.

0:33:15.320 --> 0:33:18.760
<v Speaker 2>So you didn't take the deal obviously, and the jury

0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:21.560
<v Speaker 2>comes back in, and what was that moment like if

0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:23.920
<v Speaker 2>you can explain for each of you guys, I mean,

0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:28.880
<v Speaker 2>obviously the worst moment of your life and they come

0:33:28.920 --> 0:33:31.760
<v Speaker 2>back in. I'm assuming they didn't look at you, and

0:33:31.760 --> 0:33:35.200
<v Speaker 2>you probably had a sense when they came in, But

0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:37.720
<v Speaker 2>can you paint a picture of the courtroom? Was it hot,

0:33:37.840 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 2>was it cold? Was it noisy? Was it people there?

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:42.000
<v Speaker 2>What was the whole scenario? Put try to put the

0:33:42.040 --> 0:33:44.000
<v Speaker 2>audience in your shoes as best as you can.

0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:51.239
<v Speaker 1>For me, that was the longest few minutes ever, you know,

0:33:51.480 --> 0:33:56.280
<v Speaker 1>waiting for them to give the verdict. And when they

0:33:56.320 --> 0:33:59.280
<v Speaker 1>came back with a guilty verdict, you know, it's like

0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:04.120
<v Speaker 1>everything stopped. I'm moving in slow motion and it just

0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:08.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm watching people. I'm looking around my family that crying,

0:34:08.160 --> 0:34:12.520
<v Speaker 1>and you know, it's it's warm in there. It got warmer,

0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:17.759
<v Speaker 1>and you know, something dropped. I don't know if it was,

0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:21.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, my heart, but I it was. It was

0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:24.920
<v Speaker 1>a terrible moment for me, But I didn't cry, you know,

0:34:25.040 --> 0:34:27.040
<v Speaker 1>I I I felt like I had to stay strong

0:34:27.120 --> 0:34:29.960
<v Speaker 1>for my family that was looking. But you know it

0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:31.759
<v Speaker 1>was it was heartbreaking.

0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:37.200
<v Speaker 3>I mean for me, Like i'm'a be honest, like just

0:34:37.239 --> 0:34:40.200
<v Speaker 3>talking about it right now, my heart is beating fast,

0:34:40.520 --> 0:34:43.919
<v Speaker 3>just bringing back that memory, you know, of a day

0:34:43.960 --> 0:34:49.239
<v Speaker 3>in my life that I I'll never ever forget. I mean,

0:34:50.520 --> 0:34:53.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I felt like every like bowl movements

0:34:53.840 --> 0:34:56.520
<v Speaker 3>and everything were better to just give away. It was

0:34:56.560 --> 0:35:00.839
<v Speaker 3>almost like when that last breath of life goes out

0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:04.520
<v Speaker 3>of a person and they lose all, you know, I mean,

0:35:04.600 --> 0:35:07.839
<v Speaker 3>control of their bodies or something and it's like I

0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:11.720
<v Speaker 3>felt that way. It was like my life had just ended.

0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:16.440
<v Speaker 3>And I was looking at me and seeing it, and

0:35:16.480 --> 0:35:20.680
<v Speaker 3>I was saying, like, why is this happening? This isn't

0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:25.880
<v Speaker 3>supposed to happen this way. I'm innocent. I know I'm innocent.

0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:28.680
<v Speaker 3>I know I had nothing to do with this. How

0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:33.880
<v Speaker 3>is this possible? How is this possible? Is what I

0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:37.799
<v Speaker 3>kept saying to myself and thinking as my heart was

0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:42.680
<v Speaker 3>beating so fast, and I'll never ever forget that moment.

0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:46.880
<v Speaker 2>And then it gets it. Just when you think it

0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:49.799
<v Speaker 2>can't get worse, it gets worse because you guys were

0:35:49.800 --> 0:35:52.479
<v Speaker 2>sentenced to life in prison plus one hundred and seventy years,

0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:55.239
<v Speaker 2>which is you know, I don't know. I mean, I

0:35:55.280 --> 0:35:57.640
<v Speaker 2>don't understand our system. What do you need? Life plus?

0:35:57.960 --> 0:35:59.680
<v Speaker 2>Does that mean in case you come back to life

0:36:00.200 --> 0:36:01.800
<v Speaker 2>back at another one hundred and seventy years? What is

0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:03.919
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and seventy years? How long were you guys

0:36:04.000 --> 0:36:08.680
<v Speaker 2>expected to live? I mean? And so so now off

0:36:08.760 --> 0:36:13.600
<v Speaker 2>you go to prison, maximum security prison obviously right for

0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:16.400
<v Speaker 2>this crime in Oklahoma?

0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

0:36:17.719 --> 0:36:21.279
<v Speaker 2>And is that is? That? Was that as bad as

0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:21.880
<v Speaker 2>it sounds?

0:36:23.000 --> 0:36:26.319
<v Speaker 1>Oh, it was worse. It was worse. When I put

0:36:26.480 --> 0:36:30.799
<v Speaker 1>up at the prison, someone was being executed. It was

0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:34.719
<v Speaker 1>real quiet. And when I saw the prison, it looked

0:36:34.760 --> 0:36:35.160
<v Speaker 1>like death.

0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Look like death.

0:36:39.280 --> 0:36:43.279
<v Speaker 1>So you know, I'm looking at this place, McAllister. You know,

0:36:44.600 --> 0:36:47.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, whoa, you know, this is where I'm first

0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:53.200
<v Speaker 1>to have to be. You know. It was a terrible feeling.

0:36:53.960 --> 0:36:55.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think it was because of the fact that

0:36:56.120 --> 0:37:00.000
<v Speaker 3>we had to automatically go to a maximum security prison.

0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:03.360
<v Speaker 3>So we had to go to basically the worst prison

0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:07.000
<v Speaker 3>in Oklahoma at the time. You know, at eighteen years old,

0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:10.920
<v Speaker 3>we had finally turned eighteen, and so we were basically

0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:14.280
<v Speaker 3>still kids, and we were stepping into the worst prison system,

0:37:14.400 --> 0:37:17.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, Price prison in that uh state. And so

0:37:18.200 --> 0:37:21.680
<v Speaker 3>you know, of course it was definitely fear and you know,

0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:26.880
<v Speaker 3>confusion and concern and worry of you know, what may happen.

0:37:27.280 --> 0:37:31.719
<v Speaker 3>But you know, and it's like now you're going to

0:37:31.840 --> 0:37:35.320
<v Speaker 3>this this mind of Okay, I gotta I gotta survive,

0:37:35.440 --> 0:37:38.400
<v Speaker 3>I gotta I gotta make it through this, you know,

0:37:38.640 --> 0:37:41.600
<v Speaker 3>and and there's no one else that's gonna protect me.

0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:44.839
<v Speaker 3>There's no mama, there's no daddy, there's no no one

0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:49.360
<v Speaker 3>no this you so now you have to at eighteen

0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:56.000
<v Speaker 3>be you know, the the man you know of yourself,

0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:58.480
<v Speaker 3>like you have to be the pure protector of you.

0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:02.759
<v Speaker 3>There is no one else there for you but yourself,

0:38:03.280 --> 0:38:06.560
<v Speaker 3>and you have to step into that and realize, I

0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:09.320
<v Speaker 3>may have to face this for the rest of my life.

0:38:11.000 --> 0:38:17.279
<v Speaker 2>And you know the painted picture the Marco is a

0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:20.799
<v Speaker 2>big man six'. Three but you were in a week

0:38:20.840 --> 0:38:23.600
<v Speaker 2>in state obviously because of your. Injuries haven't been shot

0:38:24.160 --> 0:38:28.480
<v Speaker 2>however many. Times And, malcolm your guy who's in, Shape

0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:32.480
<v Speaker 2>but you're not a particularly physically imposing, guy not like a,

0:38:32.640 --> 0:38:35.600
<v Speaker 2>large large. Guy and even if you, were it doesn't

0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:37.719
<v Speaker 2>even matter from WHAT i, understand, RIGHT i, mean you're

0:38:37.719 --> 0:38:43.319
<v Speaker 2>gonna Be you're gonna be faced with terrible situations and there.

0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:46.640
<v Speaker 3>Regardless, yeah the size is in so much. WORK i,

0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:49.279
<v Speaker 3>mean keep in, mind THOUGH i was eighteen, Then i'm

0:38:49.320 --> 0:38:52.359
<v Speaker 3>forty one years old Now i've grown and a lot

0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:54.719
<v Speaker 3>of WHAT i put on right, now the MUSCLE i

0:38:54.840 --> 0:38:57.960
<v Speaker 3>put on has come from years and years of you,

0:38:57.960 --> 0:39:02.440
<v Speaker 3>know exercising and and. Building but at that, TIME i

0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:05.520
<v Speaker 3>was a kid coming straight from the, streets basically sitting

0:39:05.520 --> 0:39:07.719
<v Speaker 3>in a count of jail land on a. Bump so

0:39:07.760 --> 0:39:12.160
<v Speaker 3>there was no none of the physical physique or anything like,

0:39:12.200 --> 0:39:15.200
<v Speaker 3>That so you have to basically go, on you, know

0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:18.799
<v Speaker 3>just coming in with your heart and even in there

0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:21.239
<v Speaker 3>like a guy with, shage that only even means they're

0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:24.160
<v Speaker 3>gonna bring three or four of them instead of just

0:39:24.200 --> 0:39:28.160
<v Speaker 3>one when they come for. You and you, know size

0:39:28.160 --> 0:39:30.239
<v Speaker 3>and things like that don't really come into play when

0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:33.280
<v Speaker 3>you got these guys with shives and knives and stuff

0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:37.640
<v Speaker 3>coming at. You, SO i, mean in the, system you,

0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:41.160
<v Speaker 3>know size of your, PHYSIQUE i don't think it's more

0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:45.920
<v Speaker 3>important than really your heart and using your mind and

0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:52.920
<v Speaker 3>being able to overcome the fear of you, know anyone out,

0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:57.000
<v Speaker 3>there and being ready to protect yourself in whatever situation may.

0:39:57.040 --> 0:40:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Occur, well first of, all it's incredible you guys survived

0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:07.480
<v Speaker 2>this ordeal twenty two years in places like, That but

0:40:08.680 --> 0:40:16.000
<v Speaker 2>it also is a very unusual AND i think important

0:40:16.040 --> 0:40:21.200
<v Speaker 2>story for people to hear of how the legal process

0:40:21.520 --> 0:40:26.399
<v Speaker 2>unfolded that resulted in you being here right when when

0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:28.360
<v Speaker 2>if it was up to the, authorities you would have

0:40:28.400 --> 0:40:34.000
<v Speaker 2>died in prison sooner or. Later and it involves a

0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:39.840
<v Speaker 2>number of things that are, remarkable, right including the witnesses

0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:44.400
<v Speaker 2>recanting right and you, know we know that that's not

0:40:44.440 --> 0:40:47.080
<v Speaker 2>as uncommon as people. Think but you, know and of

0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:49.879
<v Speaker 2>course it's worth talking about the fact that in over

0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:53.000
<v Speaker 2>half of all the, wrongful all the, exonerations that thousands

0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:56.080
<v Speaker 2>of exonerations that have happened in this, country now over

0:40:56.120 --> 0:40:58.520
<v Speaker 2>half of them AT, bop police and prosecutorial. Misconducts so

0:40:58.520 --> 0:41:00.760
<v Speaker 2>we probably shouldn't be shocked by. That we have scandals

0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:02.920
<v Speaker 2>going on right In New York state right. Now so

0:41:03.440 --> 0:41:06.000
<v Speaker 2>because you had your you had your convictions upheld on

0:41:06.040 --> 0:41:09.520
<v Speaker 2>appeal two years after you went to, prison and by

0:41:09.600 --> 0:41:13.759
<v Speaker 2>Now wilson had been sentenced for the other, beating, right

0:41:13.800 --> 0:41:15.600
<v Speaker 2>he had sentenced to. Death was he in the same

0:41:15.640 --> 0:41:17.440
<v Speaker 2>prisoners you, Guys.

0:41:17.160 --> 0:41:21.279
<v Speaker 1>Well he, was but you know it's, underground. Mcallus they

0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:22.920
<v Speaker 1>have a death. Row it's, underground.

0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Underground, yes, yeah he.

0:41:24.400 --> 0:41:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Was. Separate separate has their own.

0:41:27.680 --> 0:41:29.640
<v Speaker 3>Unit they keep.

0:41:29.520 --> 0:41:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Up it's like literally a, dungeon, yes. Literally so you

0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:38.279
<v Speaker 2>get your conviction, upheld did you guys think you had

0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:40.840
<v Speaker 2>a chance of beating the wrap the second time? Around,

0:41:41.239 --> 0:41:41.640
<v Speaker 2>well for.

0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:44.600
<v Speaker 1>ME i know at the, time you, know WHEN i

0:41:44.640 --> 0:41:48.160
<v Speaker 1>went in, THERE i wasn't aware of the appeals, process

0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:50.279
<v Speaker 1>and it was to the next, day you, know when

0:41:50.440 --> 0:41:52.600
<v Speaker 1>some of the older guys in the county jail told me.

0:41:52.640 --> 0:41:54.719
<v Speaker 1>That so While i'm in the county, JAIL i, mean

0:41:54.719 --> 0:41:58.040
<v Speaker 1>While i'm in in, McAllister you, Know i'm going to

0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:02.080
<v Speaker 1>the law. Library i'm writing lawyers and letters to whoever

0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:04.560
<v Speaker 1>and WHOEVER i could think, of WHOEVER i think that

0:42:04.640 --> 0:42:08.399
<v Speaker 1>could help. Me i'm writing. Letters so you know when

0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:10.640
<v Speaker 1>they when they came back and they said that the

0:42:10.680 --> 0:42:15.200
<v Speaker 1>since was, upheld you, know it was. Discouraging but at

0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:17.000
<v Speaker 1>the same, time you, KNOW i don't want to die in,

0:42:17.040 --> 0:42:20.840
<v Speaker 1>prison SO i had to continue, with you, know striving for.

0:42:20.960 --> 0:42:24.399
<v Speaker 1>Freedom so that's me writing, letters me going to the law,

0:42:24.440 --> 0:42:27.319
<v Speaker 1>library you, know me working. Out you, know you want

0:42:27.400 --> 0:42:30.239
<v Speaker 1>to keep your you, know your, body you know is your,

0:42:30.280 --> 0:42:32.520
<v Speaker 1>temple so you want to stay as healthy as. Possible

0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:36.600
<v Speaker 1>so you, know it was a lot of things that. Contributed,

0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:40.080
<v Speaker 1>faith you, know it was my faith BECAUSE i felt,

0:42:40.120 --> 0:42:43.440
<v Speaker 1>that you, know a higher being didn't allow me to

0:42:43.520 --> 0:42:46.640
<v Speaker 1>live through getting shot all those, times just to come to,

0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:49.440
<v Speaker 1>prison you, know with a life in one hundred and

0:42:49.480 --> 0:42:51.880
<v Speaker 1>seventy years to die in. There so it was it

0:42:51.920 --> 0:42:52.719
<v Speaker 1>was faith.

0:43:06.880 --> 0:43:09.200
<v Speaker 2>AND i want to get To williams In price that

0:43:09.320 --> 0:43:11.960
<v Speaker 2>two guys who falsely testified against, you and how they

0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:16.080
<v Speaker 2>recanted another thirteen years later in twenty. Ten but before

0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:20.359
<v Speaker 2>we do, that, malcome how did You i'm always in

0:43:20.520 --> 0:43:25.400
<v Speaker 2>awe of the you, know the strength of the human

0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:28.840
<v Speaker 2>spirit that's personified by every single person that sat in

0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:33.239
<v Speaker 2>those shares that you guys are sitting in. Now but

0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:35.960
<v Speaker 2>how did you manage to maintain hope in? It in

0:43:36.000 --> 0:43:38.960
<v Speaker 2>a truly hopeless? SITUATION i, mean there really was no

0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:41.440
<v Speaker 2>real a rational, person it seems like would just be

0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:44.239
<v Speaker 2>like fuck, IT i can't you know WHAT i. Mean,

0:43:44.280 --> 0:43:47.680
<v Speaker 2>like you know a lot of people do give up in, there, Right.

0:43:47.840 --> 0:43:50.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah they. DO i, mean AND i think that was

0:43:51.760 --> 0:43:53.520
<v Speaker 3>one of you, know it's good that you said, that

0:43:53.600 --> 0:43:55.960
<v Speaker 3>BECAUSE i think that's one of the things that you,

0:43:56.000 --> 0:43:59.880
<v Speaker 3>know kind of gave, me you, know that that willpower is,

0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:02.239
<v Speaker 3>well that was one of the THINGS i think contributed

0:44:02.800 --> 0:44:07.560
<v Speaker 3>seeing the results of the guys who gave. Up you,

0:44:07.560 --> 0:44:13.080
<v Speaker 3>Know i've Seen i've watched a, man old, man after

0:44:13.120 --> 0:44:16.800
<v Speaker 3>being in prison for you, know thirty forty, years giving

0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:18.880
<v Speaker 3>up and he finally died in, there and just watching,

0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:22.880
<v Speaker 3>him you, know wheel him out on A, gurney AND

0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:25.960
<v Speaker 3>i think just seeing a lot of things like that was,

0:44:26.000 --> 0:44:30.680
<v Speaker 3>LIKE i can't go out like. THAT i refuse to

0:44:30.719 --> 0:44:34.640
<v Speaker 3>allow us to. Happen and another THING i think that

0:44:34.719 --> 0:44:39.440
<v Speaker 3>was very important for me was my. Family LIKE i

0:44:39.480 --> 0:44:45.040
<v Speaker 3>have A i got twelve brothers and, sisters ad and you,

0:44:45.080 --> 0:44:47.160
<v Speaker 3>know growing up with my, family you, know we didn't

0:44:47.200 --> 0:44:49.920
<v Speaker 3>have a, lot but we had each. Other AND i

0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:52.719
<v Speaker 3>think that's what made us closer because we didn't have a,

0:44:52.760 --> 0:44:55.400
<v Speaker 3>lot so we had to make our own fun and,

0:44:55.480 --> 0:44:58.120
<v Speaker 3>games you know WHAT i. Mean so it made us.

0:44:58.160 --> 0:45:01.600
<v Speaker 3>Closer AND i think even me going, inside you, KNOW

0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:03.680
<v Speaker 3>i had to look back out there at my family

0:45:04.520 --> 0:45:07.400
<v Speaker 3>and the support that they had given to. Me you,

0:45:07.400 --> 0:45:09.640
<v Speaker 3>know they never you, know like my, mother you, know,

0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:13.760
<v Speaker 3>uh like she was my biggest, Champion like she's my biggest.

0:45:13.920 --> 0:45:17.759
<v Speaker 3>Fan like she never once awaved eye and SAID i

0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:21.239
<v Speaker 3>don't believe you or you are you sure you didn't have?

0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:23.719
<v Speaker 3>Something you, know it was no question. There it was

0:45:23.800 --> 0:45:26.880
<v Speaker 3>like WHEN i told, her WHEN i sit down and

0:45:26.960 --> 0:45:28.799
<v Speaker 3>told her in the county, JAIL i, Said, MOM i

0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:30.840
<v Speaker 3>didn't do, It LIKE i didn't have anything to do with.

0:45:31.000 --> 0:45:34.320
<v Speaker 3>It and it's like she would always, knew Like mom

0:45:34.400 --> 0:45:38.200
<v Speaker 3>knew you're. Lying i'm gonna get your, butt you know

0:45:38.280 --> 0:45:41.319
<v Speaker 3>WHAT i. Mean SO i was just, Like i'm just

0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:45.239
<v Speaker 3>gonna tell her the. Truth but she never once, said you,

0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:48.920
<v Speaker 3>know are you sure OR i think you. Might you,

0:45:48.960 --> 0:45:52.080
<v Speaker 3>know it was, Okay, Son i'm gonna be here for.

0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:57.480
<v Speaker 3>You and it was Never she never changed from, that you,

0:45:57.520 --> 0:46:00.880
<v Speaker 3>know even times THAT i would be, Like, MAMA i

0:46:00.880 --> 0:46:03.799
<v Speaker 3>don't know IF i can do this, Anymore, she's, well

0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:08.000
<v Speaker 3>you gotta keep. Fighting you gotta keep, fighting you gotta keep,

0:46:08.000 --> 0:46:11.239
<v Speaker 3>believing she said to. Me she, Said god helps those

0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:15.239
<v Speaker 3>who help, themselves and if you want some change for,

0:46:15.320 --> 0:46:17.520
<v Speaker 3>yourself you got to start doing the things that you

0:46:17.560 --> 0:46:20.120
<v Speaker 3>need to do to help. Yourself reach out to the right,

0:46:20.160 --> 0:46:23.359
<v Speaker 3>people connect to the many people as you possibly. Can

0:46:23.760 --> 0:46:26.960
<v Speaker 3>don't never be afraid to humble yourself and ask for,

0:46:27.000 --> 0:46:30.320
<v Speaker 3>help you. Know and she stood behind me that whole,

0:46:30.360 --> 0:46:35.360
<v Speaker 3>time and her encouragement helped me to write people like

0:46:35.400 --> 0:46:38.279
<v Speaker 3>The Innocence project and all these different. PEOPLE i got

0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:41.560
<v Speaker 3>turned down a, lot you, know but we never we

0:46:41.719 --> 0:46:44.440
<v Speaker 3>never gave. Up we never gave, up you. Know AND

0:46:44.480 --> 0:46:47.759
<v Speaker 3>i think my faith and my family are like two

0:46:47.760 --> 0:46:51.160
<v Speaker 3>of the strongest pillars for me to help me get

0:46:51.160 --> 0:46:51.520
<v Speaker 3>through that.

0:46:51.560 --> 0:46:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Situation so fast forwarding to twenty and, fourteen you guys

0:46:59.280 --> 0:47:04.960
<v Speaker 2>file the petition seeking a new trial with the recantations

0:47:05.000 --> 0:47:08.440
<v Speaker 2>of the state's key. Witnesses those names Were williams And.

0:47:08.520 --> 0:47:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Price they had originally testified that they saw you guys

0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:16.759
<v Speaker 2>in the, car which the authorities knew wasn't your, car

0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:21.160
<v Speaker 2>it belonged to the, Killer. Wilson so they had recanted

0:47:21.200 --> 0:47:24.680
<v Speaker 2>in twenty ten and said that and this will surprise

0:47:24.760 --> 0:47:27.680
<v Speaker 2>no one who's a listener of the, show that they

0:47:27.719 --> 0:47:30.799
<v Speaker 2>had the police had threatened to convict them on other

0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:34.000
<v Speaker 2>charges unless they falsely identified you guys in the first,

0:47:34.000 --> 0:47:38.640
<v Speaker 2>Place so they had finally. Recanted so twenty fourteen is

0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:42.040
<v Speaker 2>a crazy. Year you, know you Have Michael wilson finally, executed,

0:47:42.680 --> 0:47:45.200
<v Speaker 2>Right and as much As i'm opposed to the death,

0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:47.480
<v Speaker 2>fella it doesn't sound like society's going to miss him very.

0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:49.560
<v Speaker 2>Much BUT i am opposed to the death, penalty AND

0:47:49.560 --> 0:47:53.120
<v Speaker 2>i make that very. CLEAR i don't think that killing justifies,

0:47:53.239 --> 0:47:55.400
<v Speaker 2>killing AND i don't think the state should be in

0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:59.640
<v Speaker 2>the business of. Killing so but he's, executed and this

0:47:59.680 --> 0:48:03.240
<v Speaker 2>is where it's almost like A hollywood, script, right because

0:48:03.880 --> 0:48:08.000
<v Speaker 2>he has now confessed to the crime in, detail has

0:48:08.040 --> 0:48:11.399
<v Speaker 2>said over and over again that you guys didn't do, it, right,

0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:17.759
<v Speaker 2>yes and the other witnesses have. Recanted he gets executed

0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:21.279
<v Speaker 2>and goes to his death and his last words are you,

0:48:21.320 --> 0:48:23.840
<v Speaker 2>know he's repeated what he's been saying all, along you

0:48:23.880 --> 0:48:27.000
<v Speaker 2>guys didn't do. It now he has very little motivation

0:48:27.080 --> 0:48:30.680
<v Speaker 2>at this, point, like what's the. Difference he's going, out

0:48:31.960 --> 0:48:35.000
<v Speaker 2>but you're still sitting in. Prison, yes must be confusing

0:48:35.040 --> 0:48:37.640
<v Speaker 2>as hell when you're sitting there and a whole case

0:48:37.680 --> 0:48:40.400
<v Speaker 2>against you has completely, unraveled and now you actually had

0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:42.000
<v Speaker 2>proper representation on top of.

0:48:42.000 --> 0:48:42.120
<v Speaker 1>That.

0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:44.799
<v Speaker 2>Right so Besides Eric, culin who was an investigator who

0:48:44.880 --> 0:48:45.840
<v Speaker 2>is representing you guys.

0:48:45.760 --> 0:48:49.759
<v Speaker 1>Now Oklahoma Innocence project who got involved in twenty eleven

0:48:49.840 --> 0:48:53.080
<v Speaker 1>When alcoholma got an innocence, project our case was the

0:48:53.120 --> 0:48:53.920
<v Speaker 1>first case that they.

0:48:53.960 --> 0:48:54.720
<v Speaker 2>Took, wow.

0:48:54.920 --> 0:48:59.160
<v Speaker 3>Amazing at the, TIME i had a lawyer, hired AND

0:48:59.239 --> 0:49:01.080
<v Speaker 3>i didn't know, how you, know a lot of legal things.

0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:02.560
<v Speaker 3>WORK i don't know if it's gonna be a conflict

0:49:02.560 --> 0:49:06.520
<v Speaker 3>of interest or. Anything SO i contacted my attorney first

0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:09.360
<v Speaker 3>and was telling him about the, letter and he was

0:49:09.400 --> 0:49:12.319
<v Speaker 3>immediately on, board, like, yes you need to get with these.

0:49:12.360 --> 0:49:14.840
<v Speaker 3>People these people have a lot of, influence they, have

0:49:15.120 --> 0:49:17.960
<v Speaker 3>you know a lot of. Connections you should you, know you,

0:49:17.960 --> 0:49:21.440
<v Speaker 3>know allow them to come on board as, well because

0:49:21.440 --> 0:49:24.360
<v Speaker 3>they can reach places THAT i. Can't he was a local,

0:49:24.400 --> 0:49:26.719
<v Speaker 3>attorney you, know you, KNOW i didn't pay a lot

0:49:26.760 --> 0:49:28.560
<v Speaker 3>of money for him, whatever but he was trying to

0:49:28.560 --> 0:49:31.200
<v Speaker 3>help me as much as he. Could and he was,

0:49:31.200 --> 0:49:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Like i'll even go and you, know speak to him

0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:34.800
<v Speaker 3>on your, behalf show him a lot of the evidence

0:49:34.840 --> 0:49:37.120
<v Speaker 3>THAT i. Had he had the you, know the, witness

0:49:37.200 --> 0:49:42.719
<v Speaker 3>the testimonies from the recantations Of Rashaun williams and And

0:49:42.800 --> 0:49:45.600
<v Speaker 3>Ken price or. Whatever and so he went and you,

0:49:45.600 --> 0:49:48.920
<v Speaker 3>know talked to The Innocence project on my behalf and

0:49:49.360 --> 0:49:51.480
<v Speaker 3>presented a lot of the evidence that, he you, know

0:49:51.600 --> 0:49:54.279
<v Speaker 3>he had been gathering. Hisself and you, know they came

0:49:54.320 --> 0:49:56.680
<v Speaker 3>back and was, Like, hey we're gonna help you. Guys

0:49:56.680 --> 0:49:59.480
<v Speaker 3>we're gonna you, know jump on board and try to

0:49:59.480 --> 0:50:01.359
<v Speaker 3>see what we ca can do to help you guys as.

0:50:01.400 --> 0:50:04.200
<v Speaker 3>Well and from that point there they kind of just you,

0:50:04.200 --> 0:50:04.799
<v Speaker 3>know kind of took.

0:50:04.800 --> 0:50:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Control what an amazing turn of events that is.

0:50:08.040 --> 0:50:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah and When Michael, wilson he Said Malcolm scott And

0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:12.520
<v Speaker 1>DeMarco carpenter.

0:50:12.160 --> 0:50:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Innocent and he said it on video on.

0:50:15.320 --> 0:50:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Video then he said it when he was, executed and

0:50:18.040 --> 0:50:19.960
<v Speaker 1>then it took two years after.

0:50:19.719 --> 0:50:24.680
<v Speaker 2>That which is really. Crazy and he explained the whole.

0:50:24.680 --> 0:50:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Thing he said the shooting was in retaliation for an

0:50:26.719 --> 0:50:29.359
<v Speaker 2>earlier incident when he had been. Shot he explained who

0:50:29.400 --> 0:50:30.719
<v Speaker 2>else was in the car with. Him it was the

0:50:30.760 --> 0:50:36.640
<v Speaker 2>Guy alberson And. Harjoe and finally we get To may

0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:40.880
<v Speaker 2>twenty and, Sixteen so this has now been almost twenty two.

0:50:41.000 --> 0:50:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Years you guys have been in prison because nineteen ninety

0:50:44.239 --> 0:50:49.279
<v Speaker 2>forty twenty, sixteen the math is not, tricky and you

0:50:49.520 --> 0:50:52.000
<v Speaker 2>end up back in. Court this is the flip, side,

0:50:52.040 --> 0:50:55.399
<v Speaker 2>Right this is THE i mean the. PROVERBIAL i call

0:50:55.400 --> 0:50:57.760
<v Speaker 2>it a happy ending because we know how many challenges

0:50:57.760 --> 0:51:01.040
<v Speaker 2>there still are in front of you. Guys what was that?

0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Like so you come back to, court it's It's May

0:51:06.760 --> 0:51:08.960
<v Speaker 2>may of two thousand and, Sixteen may. NINTH i think

0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:13.880
<v Speaker 2>it was Whatever and did you did you know you

0:51:13.960 --> 0:51:15.920
<v Speaker 2>were going to be released or was there still an

0:51:15.960 --> 0:51:20.080
<v Speaker 2>element of suspense in this? Situation now when we didn't know.

0:51:20.200 --> 0:51:22.719
<v Speaker 1>IT i believed, it but we didn't know, it you.

0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:26.160
<v Speaker 3>Know, yeah the suspense was definitely still. There, yeah still,

0:51:26.160 --> 0:51:29.719
<v Speaker 3>THERE i, mean BECAUSE i, mean we we're looking at you,

0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:32.040
<v Speaker 3>know if they could do it this, time you, know

0:51:32.120 --> 0:51:34.920
<v Speaker 3>we're always going to be in till the. JUDGE i

0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:38.279
<v Speaker 3>had already, SAID i, mean until the judge actually, says you,

0:51:38.320 --> 0:51:42.920
<v Speaker 3>know you're innocent and free to. GO i was gonna be, like, please, please,

0:51:43.000 --> 0:51:46.080
<v Speaker 3>please please please let this go right this. Time, so,

0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:48.800
<v Speaker 3>yeah the suspense was definitely still there for. ME i

0:51:48.960 --> 0:51:52.000
<v Speaker 3>was still have my concerns because you got to, REMEMBER i,

0:51:52.080 --> 0:51:56.120
<v Speaker 3>mean if it was so preposterous that this could even

0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:59.120
<v Speaker 3>happen to us after, them after all this evidence and

0:51:59.160 --> 0:52:01.520
<v Speaker 3>stuff that they had on this other, person and they

0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:04.680
<v Speaker 3>still took us. Down so in my, mind it's, like

0:52:06.040 --> 0:52:08.120
<v Speaker 3>there's nothing THAT i could put past these, People LIKE

0:52:09.040 --> 0:52:10.960
<v Speaker 3>i can't say for sure that that this is going to,

0:52:11.040 --> 0:52:11.880
<v Speaker 3>happen you know WHAT i.

0:52:12.000 --> 0:52:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Mean, so so explain that moment, Now because we talked

0:52:16.160 --> 0:52:20.600
<v Speaker 2>about the moment of absolute shock and horror and the

0:52:20.680 --> 0:52:22.480
<v Speaker 2>worst moment in your. Life i'm assuming this was the

0:52:22.560 --> 0:52:24.960
<v Speaker 2>best moment of your life or both of your. LIVES

0:52:25.560 --> 0:52:27.759
<v Speaker 2>i see you both. Nodding, YEAH i couldn't imagine anything

0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:31.160
<v Speaker 2>could be. Better so and you were there together in. Court,

0:52:31.400 --> 0:52:34.120
<v Speaker 2>yes so just like back twenty two years, ago except the.

0:52:34.120 --> 0:52:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Opposite so what was that? Moment like family's back in

0:52:37.520 --> 0:52:39.480
<v Speaker 2>the court. Room it's almost like a mirror image of

0:52:39.560 --> 0:52:41.920
<v Speaker 2>the other one different judge though this.

0:52:42.040 --> 0:52:44.640
<v Speaker 3>One, HERE i got to, SAY i THINK i was

0:52:44.840 --> 0:52:46.600
<v Speaker 3>sharing this with somebody. ELSE i don't know if you

0:52:46.680 --> 0:52:51.719
<v Speaker 3>guys remember whether the show where the old code case

0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:54.960
<v Speaker 3>where the old cases always come back and they'll kind

0:52:54.960 --> 0:52:57.680
<v Speaker 3>of run through it where they'll show the guy when

0:52:57.719 --> 0:53:01.360
<v Speaker 3>he was young and then showing when he's. Old it

0:53:01.560 --> 0:53:04.240
<v Speaker 3>kind of felt like that for me in that scene

0:53:04.560 --> 0:53:07.799
<v Speaker 3>because you could see like when my lawyer got up,

0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:11.160
<v Speaker 3>there he had looked a lot. Older When Kim price

0:53:11.239 --> 0:53:13.400
<v Speaker 3>got up, there he looks a lot, older like everybody.

0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:15.920
<v Speaker 3>Looks you can tell these are the same, people but

0:53:16.040 --> 0:53:19.200
<v Speaker 3>they're a lot. Older i've aged and you've, aged And

0:53:19.239 --> 0:53:21.200
<v Speaker 3>i'm looking around the, scene you know WHAT i. Mean

0:53:21.360 --> 0:53:24.759
<v Speaker 3>and so when it finally gets to that point where the,

0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:27.520
<v Speaker 3>judge you, know because she read off a lot of

0:53:27.640 --> 0:53:30.919
<v Speaker 3>different things where she was, like, NO i Ain't i'm

0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:33.120
<v Speaker 3>not giving you. This i'm not giving you. That AND

0:53:33.239 --> 0:53:35.080
<v Speaker 3>i was, like wait a, minute this isn't sounding.

0:53:35.160 --> 0:53:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Good this is.

0:53:35.920 --> 0:53:39.680
<v Speaker 3>Good its sounding good at. All she's denying a lot

0:53:39.760 --> 0:53:42.920
<v Speaker 3>of our, Stuff like, okay hold, up you know WHAT i.

0:53:43.000 --> 0:53:46.040
<v Speaker 3>Mean but then when she finally got to the to

0:53:46.120 --> 0:53:49.200
<v Speaker 3>the biggest one of the new evidence and things like,

0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:51.719
<v Speaker 3>that and she she kind of stopped there and went

0:53:51.800 --> 0:53:56.200
<v Speaker 3>on a longer speech about that last. One and so

0:53:56.480 --> 0:53:59.239
<v Speaker 3>as she started to speak about that, ONE i kind

0:53:59.280 --> 0:54:03.640
<v Speaker 3>of felt, Like, okay we might we still got this.

0:54:03.840 --> 0:54:07.040
<v Speaker 3>Chance and when so when she finally, said you, know

0:54:07.560 --> 0:54:11.080
<v Speaker 3>at this, MOMENT i want to find these these, men

0:54:11.320 --> 0:54:17.279
<v Speaker 3>you know he's actually, innocent and LIKE i just looked

0:54:17.280 --> 0:54:18.080
<v Speaker 3>at my mom.

0:54:22.719 --> 0:54:24.360
<v Speaker 2>And it was just like, man.

0:54:26.400 --> 0:54:27.160
<v Speaker 1>And she looked at, me.

0:54:29.000 --> 0:54:31.719
<v Speaker 3>And it was like we both it was like a

0:54:31.800 --> 0:54:35.279
<v Speaker 3>tear dropped at the same time for us. Both it

0:54:35.400 --> 0:54:39.560
<v Speaker 3>was like finally she was, like, yes you're coming. Home

0:54:40.800 --> 0:54:45.880
<v Speaker 3>and it was like she had never once SAID i

0:54:45.960 --> 0:54:47.600
<v Speaker 3>don't think you're going to make it out of, there

0:54:48.760 --> 0:54:50.680
<v Speaker 3>no matter how SAD i would, get no matter how,

0:54:50.800 --> 0:54:54.600
<v Speaker 3>upset she would be, like you're coming. Home you're coming.

0:54:54.680 --> 0:55:00.879
<v Speaker 3>Home and at that moment when she said finally you're,

0:55:00.960 --> 0:55:04.920
<v Speaker 3>coming AND i just like it was like the biggest

0:55:06.920 --> 0:55:10.359
<v Speaker 3>RELEASE i think for, me like it was a big,

0:55:10.480 --> 0:55:16.000
<v Speaker 3>release LIKE i could finally breathe again and SAY i

0:55:16.120 --> 0:55:21.440
<v Speaker 3>have life, AGAIN i have life back in. Me it

0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:24.680
<v Speaker 3>was an amazing, moment you know That i'll never ever

0:55:24.800 --> 0:55:25.400
<v Speaker 3>forget in my.

0:55:25.560 --> 0:55:30.840
<v Speaker 1>Life and THEN i was glowing. INSIDE i was, glowing you.

0:55:30.880 --> 0:55:33.440
<v Speaker 1>KNOW i don't know what nobody else, seen BUT i felt.

0:55:33.480 --> 0:55:37.480
<v Speaker 1>It said. Wow and then WHEN i finally got outside

0:55:37.520 --> 0:55:39.399
<v Speaker 1>AND i was able to look up at the sun

0:55:39.640 --> 0:55:45.080
<v Speaker 1>and just the, sky it was. Beautiful, yeah what did you?

0:55:45.200 --> 0:55:47.879
<v Speaker 2>Do? What what was the first thing when you got?

0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:49.759
<v Speaker 2>Out we gonna get something to? Eat did you go

0:55:49.800 --> 0:55:52.000
<v Speaker 2>along a tree like the.

0:55:52.120 --> 0:55:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Lawyers we went with the lawyers and we went to

0:55:54.360 --> 0:55:58.080
<v Speaker 1>some restaurant with all our. Family AND i didn't even,

0:55:58.160 --> 0:56:00.719
<v Speaker 1>eat you, KNOW i was TOO i didn't even eat.

0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:00.920
<v Speaker 4>THAT i.

0:56:01.000 --> 0:56:02.879
<v Speaker 3>THINK i took me a lap around the parking. LOT

0:56:03.560 --> 0:56:05.800
<v Speaker 3>i took a lap around the parking. LOT i was

0:56:05.920 --> 0:56:09.040
<v Speaker 3>just LIKE i can do, this you know WHAT i,

0:56:09.120 --> 0:56:11.440
<v Speaker 3>Mean Like i'm, free, Man LIKE i can do this,

0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:14.600
<v Speaker 3>Now LIKE i can just lap around PARK i can do.

0:56:14.719 --> 0:56:18.360
<v Speaker 1>With, limitations no. Boundaries you can just, walk you, know

0:56:19.239 --> 0:56:19.560
<v Speaker 1>that was.

0:56:19.680 --> 0:56:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Gone, yeah AND i want to you, know as we

0:56:23.360 --> 0:56:29.200
<v Speaker 2>come towards the conclusion. Here you, Know i've been in

0:56:29.400 --> 0:56:33.359
<v Speaker 2>this doing this work for twenty five years. Now one

0:56:33.360 --> 0:56:35.520
<v Speaker 2>of the two questions that people ask me the, most

0:56:35.719 --> 0:56:38.880
<v Speaker 2>there's two questions people always ask. Me one is what

0:56:39.040 --> 0:56:42.320
<v Speaker 2>happens to the Prosecutors and the answer is, nothing, right, unfortunately.

0:56:42.440 --> 0:56:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Nothing there's no prosecutoral accountability and whatsoever in this. Country

0:56:45.560 --> 0:56:47.160
<v Speaker 2>it's in saints one of the only professions where you

0:56:47.200 --> 0:56:49.279
<v Speaker 2>basically have total immunity for no matter what you. Do

0:56:51.200 --> 0:56:55.160
<v Speaker 2>and there's some crazy cases going on right now where

0:56:56.000 --> 0:56:59.360
<v Speaker 2>whatever so In, massachusetts In New, york not just in The.

0:56:59.440 --> 0:57:02.440
<v Speaker 2>South but the other one that everybody always asks me

0:57:02.560 --> 0:57:04.879
<v Speaker 2>is about. Compensation people want to. Know they hear these

0:57:04.880 --> 0:57:06.719
<v Speaker 2>stories and they freak out and they're, like tell me

0:57:06.800 --> 0:57:08.680
<v Speaker 2>the guy got money or the woman got, Money tell

0:57:08.719 --> 0:57:09.960
<v Speaker 2>me they got. Money and we know a lot of

0:57:10.000 --> 0:57:15.719
<v Speaker 2>cases people don't get. Anything there's a really terrible number of.

0:57:15.800 --> 0:57:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Cases there's still eighteen states that have no compensation statutes.

0:57:18.600 --> 0:57:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Whatsoever that's. Terrible but In, oklahoma you guys didn't exactly

0:57:24.880 --> 0:57:27.080
<v Speaker 2>get rich off of this. EITHER i, mean AND i

0:57:27.160 --> 0:57:29.080
<v Speaker 2>know you've talked about that, before.

0:57:28.920 --> 0:57:31.760
<v Speaker 1>But can You oklahoma has a cap on it where

0:57:31.880 --> 0:57:35.560
<v Speaker 1>they give xuneries one hundred and seventy FIVE, k which

0:57:35.960 --> 0:57:39.320
<v Speaker 1>neither one of us. Received. That we did receive, something

0:57:39.760 --> 0:57:41.600
<v Speaker 1>but due to you, know we get out you, know

0:57:41.880 --> 0:57:46.880
<v Speaker 1>loans and you, know with, cars and so once we

0:57:47.000 --> 0:57:49.880
<v Speaker 1>did get the, money you, KNOW i got one hundred

0:57:49.880 --> 0:57:53.280
<v Speaker 1>and seven, thousand and it should have been a one

0:57:53.360 --> 0:57:55.320
<v Speaker 1>hundred and seventy, five BUT i had to pay the loans,

0:57:55.400 --> 0:57:57.000
<v Speaker 1>back you. Know but THEN i get one hundred and

0:57:57.080 --> 0:58:02.040
<v Speaker 1>seventy and HERE i am with one hundred and seven thousand.

0:58:02.080 --> 0:58:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Dollars you, KNOW i have no management, skills you, know,

0:58:05.240 --> 0:58:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Nothing so you, KNOW i paid off some, cars bought new.

0:58:08.520 --> 0:58:13.200
<v Speaker 1>Furniture but, basically you, know it's eight months later AND

0:58:13.240 --> 0:58:15.360
<v Speaker 1>i don't have a, dime you, know BECAUSE i pretty

0:58:15.400 --> 0:58:18.640
<v Speaker 1>much you, know squandered, it you, know and it was

0:58:18.680 --> 0:58:20.960
<v Speaker 1>a learning. EXPERIENCE i didn't let it get me down or,

0:58:21.040 --> 0:58:23.320
<v Speaker 1>nothing you, KNOW i just KNOW i got to work

0:58:23.400 --> 0:58:27.520
<v Speaker 1>harder and make better decisions in the. Future so you

0:58:27.640 --> 0:58:27.960
<v Speaker 1>can't be.

0:58:28.160 --> 0:58:30.040
<v Speaker 2>Killed and you, also there's nothing that can get you.

0:58:30.160 --> 0:58:32.800
<v Speaker 2>DOWN i, mean amazing.

0:58:32.960 --> 0:58:35.840
<v Speaker 1>Character, no life is really beautiful out. Here it really.

0:58:36.000 --> 0:58:39.600
<v Speaker 1>Is so you, know it was a learning experience for.

0:58:39.680 --> 0:58:40.560
<v Speaker 1>Me that's HOW i take.

0:58:40.640 --> 0:58:41.439
<v Speaker 2>It what about?

0:58:41.480 --> 0:58:43.240
<v Speaker 3>YOU i, MEAN i, agree it was definitely a learning

0:58:43.360 --> 0:58:46.720
<v Speaker 3>experience for. Me, yeah, SO i MEAN i learned from

0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:51.040
<v Speaker 3>from that situation as. WELL i MEAN i still, have you,

0:58:51.120 --> 0:58:54.320
<v Speaker 3>know a significant amount of money That i'm trying to

0:58:54.360 --> 0:58:59.320
<v Speaker 3>invest in things like. That i've stayed with. Employment i've

0:58:59.360 --> 0:59:03.520
<v Speaker 3>been working, consistently you, know Since i've been, free and

0:59:03.680 --> 0:59:08.600
<v Speaker 3>trying to maintain that WHILE i go through my process

0:59:08.760 --> 0:59:14.280
<v Speaker 3>of earning my certification for personal, Training like that's my true,

0:59:14.360 --> 0:59:15.840
<v Speaker 3>goal you, know in my.

0:59:15.960 --> 0:59:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Career and if people people are, listening some people that

0:59:18.800 --> 0:59:21.520
<v Speaker 2>are listening are in The tulsa. Area you're still In, tulsa.

0:59:21.280 --> 0:59:23.760
<v Speaker 3>Right i'm In, Houston texas, Now oh You're.

0:59:23.800 --> 0:59:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Houston. Okay so if people are In, houston they're, going,

0:59:26.000 --> 0:59:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Hey i'm looking for a. Trainer how do they contact?

0:59:27.840 --> 0:59:33.320
<v Speaker 3>You they can contact me On, Facebook, Instagram i'm On

0:59:33.440 --> 0:59:36.280
<v Speaker 3>snapchat on what's what's your hand? On oh it's Mister

0:59:36.320 --> 0:59:39.680
<v Speaker 3>swagger seven six, four mister M I S T E

0:59:39.880 --> 0:59:43.560
<v Speaker 3>r M r s W a g G A h

0:59:43.880 --> 0:59:44.560
<v Speaker 3>seven sixty.

0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Four, okay that's M r S W a G G

0:59:47.880 --> 0:59:52.400
<v Speaker 2>A h seven sixty. Four Contact malcolm and get in.

0:59:52.480 --> 0:59:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Shape yes he's in, shape trust.

0:59:54.520 --> 0:59:56.360
<v Speaker 3>Me or they can give me On. Facebook it's just

0:59:56.440 --> 0:59:59.680
<v Speaker 3>my regular, Name Malcolm. Scott, Okay so you know they

0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:01.360
<v Speaker 3>don't have to go through all the numbers and things

1:00:01.400 --> 1:00:02.000
<v Speaker 3>if they don't want.

1:00:02.040 --> 1:00:06.840
<v Speaker 2>To and And, DeMarco you're up to some really interesting stuff.

1:00:06.880 --> 1:00:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Now so you've got a.

1:00:07.680 --> 1:00:10.200
<v Speaker 1>BOOK i have a book WHICH i. Brought you, KNOW

1:00:10.320 --> 1:00:12.320
<v Speaker 1>i want you to see, it you, know in, person

1:00:12.440 --> 1:00:15.760
<v Speaker 1>the manuscript that's typed. Up and you KNOW i Have

1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:19.640
<v Speaker 1>i'm a call host Of Actual, innocence a podcast With Brooke,

1:00:19.680 --> 1:00:23.959
<v Speaker 1>gettings AND i have a podcast documentary Called Buried.

1:00:24.000 --> 1:00:27.080
<v Speaker 2>Alive And i've been listening To Buried alive And Actual

1:00:27.160 --> 1:00:30.160
<v Speaker 2>innocence AND i recommend both of them highly to anyone

1:00:30.240 --> 1:00:34.000
<v Speaker 2>who's a fan of this of this, genre anyone who's

1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:38.000
<v Speaker 2>interested in learning about these situations in these. Cases those

1:00:38.000 --> 1:00:39.760
<v Speaker 2>are two of the best podcasts that are out. There

1:00:39.840 --> 1:00:43.840
<v Speaker 2>So Buried alive is one of, them an actual instance

1:00:43.960 --> 1:00:46.360
<v Speaker 2>is the, other both With Brook, gettings who does an incredible,

1:00:46.440 --> 1:00:51.000
<v Speaker 2>job considers she's own and so so the book is

1:00:51.280 --> 1:00:53.240
<v Speaker 2>you have a name for the book buried, alive buried a.

1:00:53.280 --> 1:00:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Lot is there a way do you want people to contact?

1:00:55.960 --> 1:00:58.720
<v Speaker 2>You do you do public? Speaking you have an interest

1:00:58.760 --> 1:01:00.720
<v Speaker 2>from maybe is there somebody's out there a book agent

1:01:00.840 --> 1:01:03.080
<v Speaker 2>or might be somebody that could help you with that.

1:01:03.320 --> 1:01:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Pursuit so how do people reach out to?

1:01:05.000 --> 1:01:07.080
<v Speaker 1>You and the goal of mine IS i really want

1:01:07.120 --> 1:01:10.200
<v Speaker 1>to team up With malcolm and travel around BECAUSE i

1:01:10.920 --> 1:01:14.120
<v Speaker 1>am a motivational. SPEAKER i go to schools And i'm

1:01:14.200 --> 1:01:18.640
<v Speaker 1>On Instagram Buried life twenty, Two i'm On Facebook Tomarco,

1:01:18.760 --> 1:01:22.320
<v Speaker 1>carpenter And i'm ALSO i have a. Goal i've always

1:01:22.360 --> 1:01:24.560
<v Speaker 1>had this. Goal you. KNOW i was always a hoop

1:01:24.600 --> 1:01:27.880
<v Speaker 1>star going back to high, school middle, school BUT i

1:01:27.920 --> 1:01:31.200
<v Speaker 1>always wanted to play in a celebrity THE Nba All Star,

1:01:31.320 --> 1:01:33.760
<v Speaker 1>game you, know because it's obvious THAT i can't go

1:01:33.880 --> 1:01:36.240
<v Speaker 1>to THE nba, now but The Celebrity Off Star, GAME

1:01:37.080 --> 1:01:39.320
<v Speaker 1>i plan on playing. IT i actually got a video on.

1:01:39.480 --> 1:01:42.640
<v Speaker 1>YouTube it's called twenty Two DeMarco and my name is

1:01:42.640 --> 1:01:44.760
<v Speaker 1>spelled D e M a r c h O e

1:01:44.880 --> 1:01:47.560
<v Speaker 1>twenty Two DeMarco and you can go watch this. Video

1:01:47.920 --> 1:01:49.920
<v Speaker 1>AND i also want to do some, acting so if

1:01:49.960 --> 1:01:52.280
<v Speaker 1>anybody can help me get into the acting. Business you,

1:01:52.320 --> 1:01:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Know i'm definitely up for some.

1:01:53.920 --> 1:01:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Acting, okay so we Got Buried alive twenty two is The.

1:01:58.080 --> 1:01:59.720
<v Speaker 2>INSTAGRAM i know that BECAUSE i follow you And i'm

1:01:59.720 --> 1:02:03.120
<v Speaker 2>a you have to today. Too Let's Buried alive twenty,

1:02:03.200 --> 1:02:07.920
<v Speaker 2>two number twenty. Two and Then DeMarco carpenter On, facebook

1:02:08.120 --> 1:02:11.680
<v Speaker 2>which IS D. E M A. R. C hoe and Then.

1:02:11.720 --> 1:02:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Carpenter we all know how to Spell, carpenter so everybody

1:02:14.080 --> 1:02:17.480
<v Speaker 2>listens to show us how to Spell. Carpenter so so

1:02:17.960 --> 1:02:21.400
<v Speaker 2>as we wrap, up we have a tradition on wrongful,

1:02:21.440 --> 1:02:24.240
<v Speaker 2>conviction which is That, well first of, ALL i want

1:02:24.280 --> 1:02:27.000
<v Speaker 2>to remind everybody someday you may find yourself on a.

1:02:27.120 --> 1:02:30.280
<v Speaker 2>Jury remember what you're hearing. Today remember that what you're

1:02:30.320 --> 1:02:33.200
<v Speaker 2>being told may not be the, truth and that the

1:02:33.320 --> 1:02:35.600
<v Speaker 2>people who are who you trust to tell you the

1:02:35.720 --> 1:02:39.640
<v Speaker 2>truth may not be acting in the in your best

1:02:39.680 --> 1:02:41.640
<v Speaker 2>interest or society's best. Interests and you have to be.

1:02:42.280 --> 1:02:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Woke so stay woke and pay.

1:02:44.600 --> 1:02:48.640
<v Speaker 1>ATTENTION i have another question or just really a, statement

1:02:48.800 --> 1:02:51.840
<v Speaker 1>and this is this is real. Bizarre malcolm has a

1:02:51.880 --> 1:02:54.320
<v Speaker 1>brother that's in prison that's been there twenty seven years

1:02:54.680 --> 1:02:56.680
<v Speaker 1>for a. Murder he didn't Commit he's in the county

1:02:56.800 --> 1:03:00.160
<v Speaker 1>right now fighting for you, know hopefully he'll be released In.

1:03:00.240 --> 1:03:04.120
<v Speaker 1>September but you, know what is the odds of having

1:03:04.160 --> 1:03:08.600
<v Speaker 1>two brothers in prison for something they didn't? Do coreyachis

1:03:08.640 --> 1:03:10.960
<v Speaker 1>and all evidence is pointing at other. People but you,

1:03:11.040 --> 1:03:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Know coloring is Also Eric cullen is also working on

1:03:13.720 --> 1:03:14.320
<v Speaker 1>that case as.

1:03:14.320 --> 1:03:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Well i'll thought To eric about it and we'll see

1:03:17.040 --> 1:03:21.880
<v Speaker 2>what we can. Do so now comes the, time which

1:03:21.920 --> 1:03:23.880
<v Speaker 2>IS i think probably everybody's favorite part of the, show

1:03:23.920 --> 1:03:27.400
<v Speaker 2>WHEN i stopped talking AND i just turned the microphone

1:03:27.400 --> 1:03:29.760
<v Speaker 2>over to each of you, guys just for any final

1:03:29.840 --> 1:03:32.800
<v Speaker 2>thoughts that you want to, share anything at all that's

1:03:32.880 --> 1:03:34.560
<v Speaker 2>on your mind that you want to share with the,

1:03:34.640 --> 1:03:36.880
<v Speaker 2>audience because we have a big audience out, there AND

1:03:36.960 --> 1:03:38.160
<v Speaker 2>i know they're going to want to hear what you

1:03:38.280 --> 1:03:39.160
<v Speaker 2>have to. Say who wants to go?

1:03:39.280 --> 1:03:42.120
<v Speaker 1>First, yeah, sure, SURE i like to go. FIRST i

1:03:42.240 --> 1:03:44.360
<v Speaker 1>just want, to like my message is to the. Youth you,

1:03:44.440 --> 1:03:48.000
<v Speaker 1>KNOW i would like to you, KNOW i like to

1:03:48.040 --> 1:03:49.600
<v Speaker 1>see THAT i want the kids to see THAT i

1:03:49.680 --> 1:03:52.520
<v Speaker 1>come from this here AND i stay. Strong you, KNOW

1:03:52.600 --> 1:03:54.920
<v Speaker 1>i kept the faith AND i just want y'all to

1:03:55.000 --> 1:03:57.200
<v Speaker 1>know IF i can do, it then y'all don't have

1:03:57.320 --> 1:03:59.560
<v Speaker 1>to go through everything THAT i went, through the accomplished.

1:03:59.600 --> 1:04:01.960
<v Speaker 1>Goals you, know y'all can do. It you, know just

1:04:02.200 --> 1:04:05.200
<v Speaker 1>stay stay strong and believe that's.

1:04:05.240 --> 1:04:05.280
<v Speaker 2>It.

1:04:05.760 --> 1:04:08.800
<v Speaker 3>Welcome first of, ALL i just want to say thank

1:04:08.880 --> 1:04:14.200
<v Speaker 3>You jason for allowing you to come in and talk

1:04:14.360 --> 1:04:18.560
<v Speaker 3>and tell our, story AND i really appreciate what you.

1:04:18.760 --> 1:04:23.320
<v Speaker 3>Do AND i also want to say just THAT i

1:04:23.480 --> 1:04:27.480
<v Speaker 3>hope that us sharing what we're sharing with you today

1:04:28.320 --> 1:04:35.120
<v Speaker 3>inspires gives encouragement and inspiration to many people out, there

1:04:35.520 --> 1:04:39.800
<v Speaker 3>not simply those who are incarcerated for crimes they didn't commit,

1:04:39.880 --> 1:04:43.320
<v Speaker 3>it but those who may be going through, anything any

1:04:43.400 --> 1:04:47.600
<v Speaker 3>hardships in life that they feel like there's no WAY

1:04:47.680 --> 1:04:51.959
<v Speaker 3>i can get through, this because you. Can the human

1:04:52.040 --> 1:04:55.560
<v Speaker 3>spirit is very. Resilient it's very very, strong a lot

1:04:55.600 --> 1:04:59.720
<v Speaker 3>stronger than we. REALIZE i never thought THAT i was

1:05:00.240 --> 1:05:04.280
<v Speaker 3>my way back through a life plus one hundred and seventy,

1:05:04.360 --> 1:05:09.080
<v Speaker 3>years but with the help of really good people like

1:05:09.160 --> 1:05:13.560
<v Speaker 3>The Innocence, Project Eric, cullen you, know and guys like.

1:05:13.640 --> 1:05:16.720
<v Speaker 3>THAT a lot of these were students who gave of

1:05:16.800 --> 1:05:24.200
<v Speaker 3>themselves without. PAYMENT i appreciate, that AND i won't you

1:05:24.400 --> 1:05:26.600
<v Speaker 3>all out there to know you, know anytime you may

1:05:26.640 --> 1:05:29.800
<v Speaker 3>get on a jury or anything like, that know that

1:05:30.840 --> 1:05:33.960
<v Speaker 3>pay close attention to what's going. On don't just be

1:05:34.120 --> 1:05:38.760
<v Speaker 3>so quick to be ready to convict someone or. Whatever

1:05:38.960 --> 1:05:43.440
<v Speaker 3>and that goes for everyday people in. Society pay, attention be,

1:05:43.560 --> 1:05:46.520
<v Speaker 3>awoke as he, said be aware of what's going, on

1:05:46.800 --> 1:05:49.200
<v Speaker 3>and know that a lot of these things can happen to.

1:05:49.280 --> 1:05:53.480
<v Speaker 3>People innocent people do sometimes get the bad end of the,

1:05:53.560 --> 1:05:56.680
<v Speaker 3>stick AND i need society to really see that and

1:05:56.840 --> 1:05:59.600
<v Speaker 3>know that it may be if more of us are

1:05:59.640 --> 1:06:02.200
<v Speaker 3>aware of it will start to do more about. It

1:06:02.800 --> 1:06:06.320
<v Speaker 3>and that is my, mission is that we start to

1:06:06.440 --> 1:06:09.080
<v Speaker 3>do things about it to make a change for the

1:06:09.200 --> 1:06:12.360
<v Speaker 3>better and give and a lot of these guys that come,

1:06:12.440 --> 1:06:17.600
<v Speaker 3>out help give them a better chance for reintegration back into.

1:06:17.760 --> 1:06:21.960
<v Speaker 3>Society help them because if you want them to, change

1:06:22.000 --> 1:06:24.160
<v Speaker 3>if you want them to do, better you have to

1:06:24.200 --> 1:06:28.280
<v Speaker 3>give them an opportunity to see better things and a

1:06:28.360 --> 1:06:31.880
<v Speaker 3>better way of. Life and that's.

1:06:31.960 --> 1:06:34.360
<v Speaker 1>Mean well Said, malcolm and thanks Thanks Jason.

1:06:34.440 --> 1:06:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Havings, Well i'm just going to say that this has

1:06:38.280 --> 1:06:41.760
<v Speaker 2>been an extraordinary experience for me listening to you guys

1:06:41.800 --> 1:06:46.000
<v Speaker 2>and learning AND i appreciate you being. HERE i appreciate everybody,

1:06:46.120 --> 1:06:52.920
<v Speaker 2>listening and this has been a sort of a historic

1:06:53.040 --> 1:06:56.760
<v Speaker 2>episode Of Wrongful. Conviction so thanks for coming, In malcolm

1:06:56.920 --> 1:07:06.360
<v Speaker 2>And DeMarco and sharing your. Story bron all, right don't

1:07:06.400 --> 1:07:09.120
<v Speaker 2>forget to give us a fantastic. Review wherever you get your,

1:07:09.200 --> 1:07:13.000
<v Speaker 2>podcasts it really. Helps And i'm a proud donor to

1:07:13.040 --> 1:07:15.480
<v Speaker 2>The Innocence project AND i really hope you'll join me

1:07:15.600 --> 1:07:19.120
<v Speaker 2>in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent

1:07:19.280 --> 1:07:23.120
<v Speaker 2>future wrongful. Convictions go To innocenceproject dot org to learn

1:07:23.160 --> 1:07:25.840
<v Speaker 2>how to donate and get. Involved i'd like to thank

1:07:25.920 --> 1:07:29.320
<v Speaker 2>our production, Team Connor hall And Kevin. Wartis the music

1:07:29.360 --> 1:07:32.400
<v Speaker 2>in the show is by three TIME oscar nominated Composer Jay.

1:07:32.560 --> 1:07:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Ralph be sure to follow us On instagram At Wrongful

1:07:35.560 --> 1:07:40.160
<v Speaker 2>conviction and On facebook At Wrongful Conviction. Podcast Wrongful conviction

1:07:40.240 --> 1:07:42.840
<v Speaker 2>With Jason flahm is a production Of lava For Good

1:07:42.880 --> 1:08:00.320
<v Speaker 2>podcasts and association With Signal Company number one h