WEBVTT - Texas Tough Law & Broadway Casting Decisions 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:14.960 The Biden administration says that Texas's sweeping immigration law, known 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:20.320 as SB four, is unconstitutional because it violates the federal 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:25.360 government's sole authority to set immigration policy. The law authorizes 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.480 state officials to arrest, detain, and deport non citizens who 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.879 enter the country illegally, but it's only gone into effect 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.240 for a grand total of nine hours. That's because it's 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.559 been meandering through the federal courts, including a trip to 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.479 the Supreme Court, and in the law's second appearance at 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.960 the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, the Texas Elicitor General 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:50.280 Lloyd Nielsen made a remarkable admission, maybe the law goes 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:51.000 too far. 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.480 What Texas has done here is they have looked at 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.760 the Supreme Court's president and they have tried to develop 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:00.360 a statute that goes up to the line of court 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:04.080 precedent but allows Texas to protect the border. Now, to 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.840 be fair, maybe Texas went too far, and that's the 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.119 question the Sport's going to have to decide. But that's 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.319 the context of which we are here. Texas has looked 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.840 at the Supreme Court precedent and the laws that Congress 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.039 has enacted and has tried to develop a law that 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.120 goes up to the edge, but no further. 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.760 It was before the same panel that on March twenty six, 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.080 by a two to one vote, blocked the law temporarily 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.800 in an opinion by Chief Judge Priscilla Richmond, who wrote 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:36.080 that the law likely interferes with federal immigration policy, but 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:40.080 at oral arguments, the Solicitor General now claimed that Texas 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:44.360 doesn't deport anybody. He said police would take migrants to 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.120 a port of entry controlled by the federal government, leaving 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.360 Chief Judge Richmond to question the point of the law. 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:53.960 You can take let's say, one hundred and fifty people 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:55.240 at a time back to Eagle. 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:59.240 Pass, Yes, or some other port of entry, Yes. 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.440 Your honor, and then the federal government's going to process him. 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.280 Is that how you yes, your honor, And that's it's 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:06.520 going to. 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.280 Say, here's your notice or whatever you can stay in. 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.440 And so then Texas, what's the status? 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:15.240 What has the statute accomplished? 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.239 I'm just curious. Yes, joining me is immigration law expert 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.040 Leon Fresco, a partner at Holland and Knight and a 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:25.279 former Justice Department official. Leon Tell us about the litigation 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:26.600 over this law. 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.240 This case has gone through quite the long and winding road. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.120 To use the Beatles reference, where it starts in the 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.600 District Court, and the District Court enjoins the law very 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.320 simply as being in contravention to the Supreme Court's twenty 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:47.680 twelve decision in Arizona. Then the Fifth Circuit actually lifts 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:52.560 the same momentarily and says that the law can go 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.359 into effect, and then that goes to the Supreme Court, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.760 who then says, hey, wait a second, there actually wasn't 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:06.640 a real ruling here with regard to the merits of 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.839 whether the state should be lifted or not, so we're 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.600 not going to get involved in reviewing what is a 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.560 de facto decision that just says, go to the Supreme 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.080 Court and figure that out. So when they kicked it 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.000 back to the Fifth Circuit, the Fifth Circuit, paneled two 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:25.760 to one, actually put in a temporary stay. And then 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:30.000 what happened is while the law is temporarily saved, there 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.520 is now an oral argument that occurred on whether that 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.240 state should be extended. But at the moment, the law 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.160 is not in effect and it stayed pursuing to a 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.160 temporary state, and what. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.720 Would the law allow Texas to do. 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:49.040 The law would allow Texas to basically create the facto 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:55.560 deportation events, essentially, because while Texas cannot actually deport people 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.280 to Mexico, what they would do is if they apprehended 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.280 people who were unlawfully in Texas, they would then take 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.720 those people, transport them to the Mexico Texas border and 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:12.640 say you have two choices. Either go into Mexico or 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.359 if we catch you again, you will be arrested and 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.320 you will actually be charged with a felony of remaining 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.320 in the United States or re entering the United States, 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.400 depending on what you do after you've already been charged 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.040 with the misdemeanor. And so that was placed under great 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:34.320 scrutiny in this oral argument because Texas tried to recast 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:38.600 that as no, we're not actually creating these self deportations, 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:40.800 we're just going to give them to the federal government 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.080 and we're cooperating with them so that they can do it, 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.960 to which the court said, well, guess what the federal 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.840 government's doing you and they're saying they don't want this cooperation, 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.800 So how can you say that's what you're doing. And 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.000 this is where there was some complications in the oral argument. 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:01.560 Yeah, it was kind of surprising that the Czexas Solicitor 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:06.760 General said that the law was crafted in a way 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.480 that goes up to the line of Supreme Court President, 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.480 and he admitted that maybe across. 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.720 The line, right, he was basically trying to get what's 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.560 known as a severance doctrine, where the illegal parts of 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.840 the law could be severed away while still keeping the 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.599 legal parts of the law. But the problem is, it's 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.600 not really clear what's legal under the Arizona case. The 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:33.560 only thing that Arizona permits is for state officials to 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.440 check on someone's status and report them die. So, yes, 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:39.800 they can do that, and they've been doing that, and 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.640 they can continue to do that. But with regard to 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.320 actually arresting people and charging them for a crime, the 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:50.599 Arizona Supreme Court decision actually already says that is illegal. 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.240 And then when you add this second component of actually 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:58.840 taking human beings back to the Mexico US border line 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.680 and telling them and you have two options to port 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:06.680 yourself or face four criminal charges, that would be completely 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.800 in contravention of the Arizona Supreme Court case. 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.159 Let's say Texas does this will Mexico take those people back? 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.159 Well, this is where Mexico has said that it's not 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.960 going to cooperate with any state or local deportation efforts. 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.719 It will only cooperate with the federal government. Now what's 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.719 not clear is what does that mean. So Mexico could 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.680 say if the individuals are crossing the ports of entry, 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.000 they could say, we're not going to let you cross 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:39.760 the ports of entry. But if Texas basically scares people 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:44.320 into recrossing the river back into Mexico, not clear what 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:46.640 Mexico would do there. Are they going to try to 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.520 grab them and push people back into the US. That 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.920 can create a horrible you know, human ping pong essentially 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.080 where you have forces taking people and pushing them back 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:01.040 and forth. So it's not clear what would happen realistically 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.840 in that Todario. But in any case, Texas what it's 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.520 really trying to do is use fear to deter people 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.920 a from not even coming into Texas in the first place, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:18.440 instead going into California or Arizona. But also if they 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.560 do go into Texas, then to go away and either 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.040 leave Texas or go into Bangsico. 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.680 Did they even discuss in the oral arguments Texas's claim 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.920 that their law mayrors federal law and the federal government 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:38.240 divide administration isn't enforcing federal law, so they get to. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.400 Well, correct, that's the claim of Texas. They're basically making 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.400 two claims. One is that their law mirror's federal law, 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.440 like you said, and the federal government isn't enforcing it, 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.440 so they should get the opportunity to enforce it. And 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:53.480 one of the judges who used to be the former 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.520 Texas solicitor General is now in the Fifth Circuit who 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.480 was appointed by President Trump. He had a lot of 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.200 sympathy for that and certainly pushing the federal government on 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.720 this lack of enforcement issue. But at the end of 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:09.520 the day, the point is it's very difficult to say 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.840 you're cooperating with the federal effort when the federal government, 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:18.200 who gets different in these proceedings, says, and I think 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:22.360 successfully and persuasively to the other two judges, that this 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.920 isn't contravention of what the federal government is trying to do. 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.760 They don't want this assistant. They view this assistant as illegal. 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.040 It puts the judges in a very difficult position as 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.240 to whether it will allow this to continue. 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:40.120 So you had the Trump appointee asking tough questions of 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.440 the federal government's attorney, and then you had one judge 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:48.040 who had ruled against Texas in this matter before didn't 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.680 say much, but then the Chief Judge had a lot 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:52.120 to say, right. 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.360 And the Chief Judge is actually appointed by George Bush, 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.720 and she's the Chief Judge of the Court, and was 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:02.000 actually in the past considered a conservative who might potentially 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.360 be on the Supreme Court. And she was very out 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:07.760 of it about how difficult it was to square the 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.640 circle with regard to the claims that the State of 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.079 Texas was making and how it was going to actually 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.800 implement this law if it was getting all of this 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:21.679 resistance from both Mexico and from the federal government. Because 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:23.280 at the end of the day, if the states were 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.960 going to take the matters into their own hands, how 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.719 would that actually work as a functional matter when this 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:32.320 has so much of a foreign policy nexus into what's 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.200 being negotiated between the United States and Mexico. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.480 After this Fifth Circuit rules, what happens next in. 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.800 The case, Well, then it can be appealed again to 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.200 the Supreme Court, where the Supreme Court would decide whether 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:49.200 to uphold the Texas law or whether to continue to 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:53.200 say that the Texas law is unconstitutional. It's likely the 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.280 Fifth Circuit that here is actually likely to say that 0:09:56.400 --> 0:10:00.160 the Texas law is unconstitutional. Perhaps Texas will try to 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.200 get a momentary victory by going on bank in the 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.800 Fifth Circuit for the full panel, which is a more 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:10.920 conservative court, but regardless, even if they get the temporary victory, 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.000 he will ultimately go to the Supreme Court. And even 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.040 though there are three justices that are unaccounted for, you 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.719 have Kavanaugh, you have Cony Barrett, and you have Gorsas 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:25.320 who are unaccounted for and could vote to overturn the 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:29.880 Arizona law, along with Justices Thomas and Alito who voted 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.840 during Arizona on the side of Arizona. So perhaps the 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:38.200 Flights could vote to overturn the Arizona decision, but it 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.720 seems unlikely that that would happen because again of these 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:47.240 ramifications of how a state then ends up interacting with 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:52.559 the Mexican government with regard to this act of basically 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:57.320 self supporting people back into Mexico who oftentimes will not 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:01.120 even be Mexican, will be from Venezuela or Cuba or 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.040 some other place where Mexico has no reason to take 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:05.400 people back into Mexico. 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.400 Yeah, and the Chief Judge did mention that Arizona case, 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.400 saying the laws on the books. So we'll see when 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.400 that ruling comes out. Stay with me. Leon. Coming up next, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:19.240 I'll continue this conversation with Leon Fresco of Holland and Knight. 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.800 The Texas governor journeys to New York City, but not 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:28.679 by bus. It wasn't by bus, but Texas Governor Greg 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.680 Abbott did make the trip to New York City to 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:35.880 headline the New York Republican Party's annual gala last Thursday, 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.839 and Abbot said he had no plans to let up 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:43.160 on busing migrants to the sanctuary city, continuing his war 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.520 of words with the Mayor Eric Adams. 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:51.920 The complaining by Mayor Adams, there's nothing short than stunning. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.720 What he has is a tiny fraction of what Texas 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:58.320 gets every single day. 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.280 The governor did not take the mayor up on his 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.960 offer to spend a night in one of the city's 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.760 migrant shelters. I've been talking to immigration law expert Leon 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.760 Fresco of Holland and Knight Leon. Immigration is going to 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.600 be one of the top issues in the presidential campaign. 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:21.439 And we've talked before about hints from the Biden administration 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.199 that there might be an executive action by the president. 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.000 Is there any more talk or thought by the Biden 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:33.360 administration of taking some kind of executive action in light 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.320 of the fact that they couldn't get the immigration bill 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:37.760 passed well. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:42.280 The Biden administration is certainly continuing this process. They are 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.720 really engaging in a lot of debate whether it's better 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:50.079 to place a policy in effect that they know will 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.640 be enjoyed by the court simply so that they can 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.880 say they tried, or whether they should try to engage 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.959 in a policy that might not be as effective dominant 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.720 if you looked at it on its face, but could 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:07.920 actually survive judicial scrutiny. But the interesting news is that 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:12.560 when March ended, March was actually as a hair lower 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.960 than people were expecting with regards to border crossings. And 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:20.400 that's because Mexico has agreed along with the Biden administration 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.040 to help the Bide administration, especially with regards to Venezuelan. 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.600 So they are detaining Venezuelans, they are preventing Venezuelan from 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:33.040 entering the United States, and they're actually removing Venezuelans back 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:37.760 into Venezuela. And so this is having some nominal but 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:42.280 yet somewhat appreciable effect on the border with regards to 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.720 numbers crossing. And so only if those numbers were to 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:50.200 get back to the rates that were worried about, I 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.880 think is when you'd see these policies potentially being promulgated. 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.719 Leam. We've talked before about many migrants who are arrested 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.880 and then released. But in the case of eight Venezuelan 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:08.040 migrants who were illegally squatting illegally squatting in a home 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.320 in New York and they were arrested and found with 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:14.680 drugs and guns, they were released, but I seem to 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:19.040 have gotten involved. Then Ice then arrested or re arrested 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:23.480 three of them and lodged detainer requests for four others 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.160 being held in local custody. 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.640 Yes, so depending on where the Venezuelans cases, and some 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.760 of the Venezuelans who were apprehended in New York actually 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.800 already had final deportation orders and the problem was Venezuela 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.160 won't take those individuals back and so the US government 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.400 needs to decide what it's going to do with those 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.440 But some of those individuals actually hadn't even had their 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.440 process finished, because what happened was they were in the 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:53.880 middle of the deportation process and the individuals absconded and 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.960 didn't show up at their hearings. And so in those situations, 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.360 I have said, look what the City of New York 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:05.520 is done with. Whatever criminal penalties are going to be 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.080 provided to those individuals, then we want them so that 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.880 we can try to place them in deportation proceeding. Now, 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.680 the ultimate problem with all of these Venezuelans is going 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.880 to be what happens next. If Venezuela will not accept 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.240 those individuals, what is the federal government willing to do. 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.760 Is it willing to sanction Venezuela in some way that 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.760 will actually be meaningful to Venezuela so that it will 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:33.560 start accepting individuals. Will it actually try to do something 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.760 different in terms of parrots to make it more attractive 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:41.480 for Venezuela to accept people but that's the larger issue. 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.040 Or will it try to find some country who will 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:49.040 accept Venezuelans in exchange for some favor that the US 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.560 government is willing to do, perhaps with regard to foreign 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.160 aid or trade or something else. But those are the 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.360 options that are available to the federal government. But this 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.480 Venezuelan issue is going to continue, ne you to be 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.760 complicated so long as Venezuela is not accepting people that 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:06.840 the United States is trying to remove there. 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:11.920 So is that why Venezuelans are in the spotlight because 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.960 the country's not accepting people back or are there other 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:15.760 reasons why? 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.800 Well, there's a lot of issues going on at one time. One, 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:23.120 obviously there's a mass exodus of Venezuelans into the United States. Second, 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.680 there are now appearing to be some efforts with regard 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.560 to Venezuela with sort of emptying out some of the 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.120 undesirables from Venezuela in a way similar to what Fidel 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.600 Castro did in Cuba in the nineteen eighties to make 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.760 Venezuelan to sort of alleviate the social pressures on Venezuela. 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.760 But those pressures now get transferred to the United States 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:50.160 as some of those individuals arrived who are not necessarily 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.480 as safe as some others. And so I think that's 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.080 what you're seeing, is you're seeing the confluence of a 0:16:56.120 --> 0:17:00.240 different group of Venezuelans entering into the United States, addition 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.920 to the fact that those individuals then can't be removed 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.960 back into Venezuela. And so this is something, like I said, 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.320 the last time you saw this was in the nineteen eighties, 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.600 and when this happened then it was destabilizing the quite 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.200 some number of places until those communities could figure out 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:18.000 what they were going to do. 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:22.320 Let's say Ice has some Venezuela's in custody, what are 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:23.320 its options. 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.400 So what happens is there's an opinion from the Supreme 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.440 Court that actually was post this nineteen eighties issue, which 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:35.239 was called Zavidas. And in that opinion, what they said was, 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.879 if you can't deport someone and you know you can't 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.200 support someone, you've tried for six months while you've had 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.080 them in detention and you can't support them, you have 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.119 to release them back into society under an order of 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:53.240 supervision where they have to report and check in, unless 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.760 you can show that there's such a danger to society 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.960 that you can indefinitely detain them. And so the federal 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:05.080 government has been very concerned about trying to stretch out 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:10.680 the constitutionality of whether it can indefinitely detain people, but basically, 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:14.359 anytime someone breaks their conditions, you can place them back 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.520 in detention for six months at a time, but that's 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.560 very difficult, and so if you're going to be tracking 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.480 people and they're going to be committing crimes in between 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.720 the time they're in immigration detention, that's the sort of 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.440 thing that the public doesn't like to year about when 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.440 the federal government's doing that. They don't understand what's going on. 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.600 But the problem is there is the Supreme Court decision, 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.200 which you know, understandably, you don't want to have someone 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:42.760 in detention for fifty years because their government won't accept them. 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.639 And all they might have done is commit something like 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.399 a shoplifting offense, and now they're suddenly in prison for 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.320 fifty years. So you have to be careful. There obviously 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.919 is a balance, but here the balance has led to 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.040 a situation where there's a little bit of a lack 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.959 of safety and stability some places because there are all 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.560 these Venezuelans who are being caught doing things in New 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:09.880 York City and they can't be detained because there's a 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.679 cap to how long they can be detained. Due to 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.800 the fact that they can't actually be removed back to Venezuela. 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.159 It is so complicated because you're right, you read the 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.560 stories and you go, well, why are they still here? 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.000 They've been in and out of jail and continue committing crimes. 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:27.840 You know, why isn't something being done? I mean, it's 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.880 just so complicated and confused. 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.480 I mean, you could, you could conceivably And this is 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.000 the thing nobody's ever tried to do, is have an 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.360 aggressive action against some country like Venezuela and say, look, 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:40.280 we are by force. And this is the kind of 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.160 thing Trump has talked about, we are by force bringing 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.240 people here, and go ahead, shoot out us. You know, 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.240 try whatever you're gonna try, but we're gonna We're gonna 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.600 still deport these people. We don't care. But obviously something 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.840 like that hasn't yet been dried in American history, so 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.119 it's not clear. Maybe President Trump would try that, or 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.520 maybe with scare a country to accepting people under the 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.320 threat that he's going to try these forced deportations, but 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.800 it would be considered an act of aggression because you're 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:13.960 invading a country's territorial boundaries without their permissions. 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.960 And the numbers in March were better, but still incredibly high. 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:22.280 Right, It's still very high compared to past years, that 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.960 past decades, but compared to this recent last twelve months. 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.080 March was a bit of a break from what people 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.119 expected was going to happen in March, and that's because 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.320 all of the Venezuelas people thought were coming were not 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:41.000 coming because Mexico was stopping them. And Venezuela has agreed 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:45.280 to allow deportations from Mexico, even if it hasn't agreed 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:47.600 to allow deportations from the United States. 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.960 The majority of migrants, what country are they from? 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.240 Well, people are still coming from all over the world, 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.520 and Mexico actually still is the highest number in terms 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:03.120 of just your number. But they're coming from Cuba, they're 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:07.480 coming from Haiti, They're coming from Venezuela. They're coming from Nicaragua, 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.840 They're coming from Central America, savad or Juatemala, there is 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:15.119 they're coming from Ecuador. They're coming now from parts of 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:19.760 Africa and from China, and so it's everywhere, but Venezuela 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:22.800 has sort of been the choke point in terms of 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.879 just the numbers get really high when the surges of 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:28.199 Venezuelan come in. 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:30.600 And this is why immigration is going to be one 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:35.280 of the top issues this presidential election season. Thanks so much, 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.960 Leon for once again helping us to understand how complicated 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:43.520 immigration issues are. That's Leon Fresco of Holland and Knight. 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.320 In other legal news today, Donald Trump asked a New 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:51.040 York appeals court to move his hush money criminal trial 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:55.000 out of Manhattan and reverse his gag order in an 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.320 eleventh hour bid for delay just a week before the 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:02.119 trial is scheduled to start. At an emergency hearing today, 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:06.400 the former president's lawyers asked an appellate judge to postpone 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:09.760 the April fifteenth trial while they fight for a change 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:13.639 of venue. Trump's lawyer argued that he faces quote real 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:19.560 potential prejudice as a defendant in heavily democratic Manhattan. Citing 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:23.399 defense surveys and a review of media coverage. Trump Is 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.600 suggested on social media that the trial should be moved 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.840 to Staten Island, the only New York City borough he 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.880 won in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty. The appella chief 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.240 for the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, Stephen Woo, said the 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.480 question in this case is not whether a random poll 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:44.480 of New Yorkers from whatever neighborhood are able to be impartial. 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.760 It's about whether a trial court is able to select 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:52.280 a jury of twelve impartial jurors. He also blamed Trump 0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:56.760 for stoking pre trial publicity with countless media appearances talking 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.239 about the facts of the case, the witnesses, and so on. 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:04.760 Justice Elizabeth Gonzalez noted at today's hearing that it didn't 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:08.280 involve an appeal per se, but the defense's desire for 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:11.920 an emergency stay, an order that would prevent the trial 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.440 from starting on time. She said she would review related 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:19.000 court filings and issue a decision quote at some point. 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.439 Coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show, the First 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:27.920 Amendment shields a Broadway producer's casting decision from discrimination claims. 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:44.160 I'm June Grosse and you're listening to Bloomberg. He hadies 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.400 down is the Tony Award winning musical about the myth 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:51.720 of Orpheus and Euryticy, and it's now the latest example 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:55.480 of how the First Amendment can shield casting decisions from 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:59.800 claims of discrimination. Joining Me's employment law expert Anthony Ansee, 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:03.720 a partner at Pross Gower Rose Tony, tell us about 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:06.560 the facts here because it seemed like the producers of 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:08.800 this show were sort of between a rock and a 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:13.400