WEBVTT - AI for Lawyers, Second Hand September, Alzheimer’s Blood Test 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:06.840 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:12.520 This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.280 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:20.280 global business, finance and tech news as it happens. Bloomberg 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:25.440 Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim Steneviek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:28.400 All right, everybody, you are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:30.760 I'm Carol Master, along as Stephen Carroll in for Tim 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:34.720 Stenovik this week Stephen of Porus, host of Bloomberg day 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.600 Break Europe. But really nice to have you here in 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:40.200 New York. And I'm just curious do you talk about 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:41.080 AI as much as we do? 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:41.360 Oh? 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:43.559 Yeah, it's everywhere it is, right, And I mean, look, 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:45.599 it's also the question of every person that has a 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.360 new idea or a new use for it makes you 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.520 start to think, then, well, what part of our lives 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:50.800 are not going to be touched by AI? 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:52.760 Well, I love it when people say that AI is 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:54.840 going to be a long time before like we really 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.120 get impacted in terms of society, because I just I'm 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:01.760 waiting for the AI anchors broadcast. It's going to happen. 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.480 It's going to happen. But it's also it sounds like 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:05.640 coming for lawyers. 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:07.480 Yeah if well, look for many it's already arrived. The 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:10.480 legal industry is one that can see multiple consequences from 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.200 the arrival of AI. So in one way, first of all, 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.840 it's an extremely legally complex field. So the arrival of 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:17.080 AI and to a lot of industry is going to 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.040 create a lot of work for lawyers. But there are 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.520 other huge opportunities to revolutionize the way in which a 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.520 sector which you know sometimes has been thought about being 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.240 a bit old fashioned, could change, and could change pretty dramatically. 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.560 So talk about this. We've got Eleanor Lightbody with us. 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.600 She's CEO at Luminance, which has developed a legal large 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.360 language model and recently raised forty million dollars as it 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:40.680 expands into the Dallas market. Alan, are great to have 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.920 you with us on the program today. Can you, first 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.760 of all, just explain to us how does your technology work? 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:47.920 Is this lawyer GPT? 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.400 Not quite so. Look as I'm sitting here in New 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:55.680 York at the moment, and I'm looking outside a window, 0:01:55.840 --> 0:02:00.240 and there are people in every building, pretty much in 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.240 every corner of this world who are receiving contracts, they're 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.720 reviewing them, they're processing them, and they're deciding what to 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.400 do with them. As that stands, it's very time consuming, 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:13.000 it's very manual, it's very expensive, and it can introduce 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.160 a lot of risk. And so what Luminance is doing 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.520 is that we're automating a lot of those low level 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.720 tasks that pretty much every business is faced with on 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:25.440 a daily basis. But it's much border than it's much 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.520 more specific than just a chat GBT rapper. I think 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.360 that's really really important. We've built a proprietary, purpose built 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.240 large language model that was only trained on legal contracts, 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.560 and that's really really key because if you were using 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:43.480 something like chat GPT to dress problems in legal I 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.040 suppose because it's been trained across the whole Internet. I mean, 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.840 it's amazing, isn't it like creating a contract or writing 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.920 a poem for you? But fundamentally, it's been trained to 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.200 give you an answer at all costs. And when you're 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.799 working in the legal environment, you need an AI that 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.800 knows when to hand back the answer to the human 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.359 and knows when it doesn't know the answer. And that's 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:05.520 really what sets us apart. 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.440 I'm curious hasn't been put to work yet. 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.239 Yes, absolutely, tell us how it's. 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.320 Working out and any snags or problems, and how you 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.720 continue to tweak it. Yeah. 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:18.280 Absolutely so. 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.239 Look, we have over seven hundred customers now around the 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.400 world and in the US alone. In the last eighteen months, 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.520 our US customers have increased by two hundred and twenty 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.040 five percent, with the likes of AMD all the way 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.480 through to Panda Express and Hitachi all using US. And 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.160 I think fundamentally, how are business using US and why 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.839 business is using AI for legal Well, they're all faced 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.520 with the same problem. They're all faced with exploding in 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.240 boxes they're trying to get through, they're all faced with 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.440 increasing regulations, they're all faced with having to answer business 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.080 questions on a second by second basis. So they're looking 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.920 at AI to help them automate and augment that pretty 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.000 much end to end. And what does that look like 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:01.840 in practice, Well, that's I suppose being used for the 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.840 creation of contracts. AI being used to help accelerate the 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:10.200 process in negotiating contracts. So instantaneously, if someone receives a 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.520 contract with our AI, they can press a button and 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.960 the AI will tell them what clauses they can agree 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.760 to which ones they can't, what the risk is, and 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.480 what language they should use instead, and then AI being 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.680 able to answer any business questions of all of their contracts, 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.920 which a great example would be Yokogawa used to spend 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.280 about seven days answering business questions. That's now reduced down 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.760 to fifteen minutes at a maximum. So really, that end 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.240 in nature is how businesses of all different sizes are 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:40.599 really using the AI. You asked, what are some of 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.640 the limitations? Will look at the moment, the way that 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.520 the AI is being built, it's really to automate those 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.800 low value, repetitive tasks. It's not to do the complex reasoning, 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.680 and it's not to do the complex advice. But fundamentally, 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:56.760 if you can free up people's time so that they've 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:01.239 got more space to focus on that, then that's absolutely amazing. 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.919 I'm wondering, are there areas of law which lend themselves 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.919 to using your technology with the clients that you're working with, 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.080 you find there's specific sectors where this really works well, 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.640 or perhaps others where there's still development to be done 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.800 before it can be before it can be applied. 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.240 I think this is like it's a universal, it's kind 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.760 of reaching companies universally in the sense that most companies 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.279 in the world are having to review very similar contracts. 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.440 Let's think about your NDAs, your sales agreements, your DPAs, 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.320 and fundamentally all of those, all those companies want to 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.240 accelerate the work that they're doing with those contracts. They 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.360 want to get through them faster so they can really 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.520 focus on other things. And so that's really where AI 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.880 can help businesses. That and the fact that it can 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.640 really highlight key business obligations of what you've agreed to 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:58.520 in the past, identify key information instantaneously. That's really what 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.960 I think is super powerful. If you're using AI to 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.440 help you negotiate your multimillion pound deal, you might use 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.000 it to help you summarize the key information in that contract, 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.680 but you're probably going to want to spend more time 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:12.520 on it than just you know, relying on it to 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:13.479 do all of the work. 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.520 I'm curious, your company started in a Cambridge dorm room 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.880 back in twenty fifteen, so that's almost ten years ago. 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.760 So you guys were doing this sort of thing way 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.200 before we all started talking about large language models, right 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.960 and generator of AI. So help us understand kind of 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.200 what you were doing. How the last year and a 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.039 half in terms of a whole different level of AI 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.040 has maybe changed the game, if at all, or impacted you. 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:46.320 Yeah, so it's I mean, it's been unbelievably exciting over 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.000 the last two years. You know, our Aarsgreen five X, 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.200 and I think let's cast our minds back to twenty 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.159 fifteen when Adam and Graham had the founder started the business. 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.560 They started it in the Innovation Park at the University 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.960 of Cambridge, and they started it because they had noticed 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:03.880 that a lot of their friends were lawyers and they 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.720 were commenting on the hours that were being put in 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.440 and sunk into very similar work, and Adam and Graham 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.480 were like, look, AIS getting change the way in which 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.160 humans interact with data and with content. I think we 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:20.720 should build something for this. And really they sold first 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.080 to law firms because they wanted to get data, because 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.520 they knew that any AI company that was addressing this problem, 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:31.000 data was absolutely key. And so they spent years working 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:32.840 with the law firms and then they kind of moved 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.360 into the in house legal teams because fundamentally they realized 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:41.200 that the AI worked across all different industries, so it hasn't. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.400 I suppose we've been doing AI before it was cool 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:51.000 and the changes and the developments in the models is 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:52.960 great because you can combine them with some of the 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.000 other forms of working and selling down a contract. And 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.360 so the combination of what we call an analytics AI 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.160 and then genitive AI really allows us to set ourselves 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:04.240 apart in this market. 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.000 I wonder how what your view is on how lawyers 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.320 need to be trained differently to be able to take 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.600 advantage of having your tools as well. People invest a 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:13.680 lot of money and going to law school, especially in 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.640 this country, and I wonder does it need to be 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.120 overhauled to fit into an AI world. 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:21.760 Well, I think most people spent a lot of money 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:23.560 or spend a lot of money going into law school 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.640 not to review and not to review very similar contracts 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.560 to the junior lawyers right exactly. They've probably quite pleased 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:33.480 that the AI can help them with that and get 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.360 that off of their desk. I think, look, what we're 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:40.720 seeing is AI is being used really to help them 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.360 accelerate their training. So a lot of our companies will 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:47.040 use it so that their paralegals or their first year's 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.839 associates can get access and insights into how other people 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.679 within the organization have negotiated different contracts. It's fantastic at 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.920 retaining institutional knowledge. So I think that that's what we're 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.760 going to start to see more of. Is that, whether 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.600 that's you know, in the classroom or whether that's in 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.000 real life, people will start adopting AI to help accelerate, 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.960 whether it's their work or whether it's their knowledge, because 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.920 really that's key to the success of their profession. 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.240 Makes me wonder too if it cuts in on those 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.880 hourly you know costs that lawyers charge because it's like, hey, 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.400 I just you know, through it in the ai'm are more. 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:22.079 High value work. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:23.640 I think is the part of it as well. Be 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:25.320 interesting as well, and are great to talk to you. 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.760 Thanks for joining us and their lightbody there CEO at 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.599 Luminance joining us as discussing legal large language models. 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.920 Not lawyer GPT. No, that's what we learned that yet. 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.920 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.240 Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:43.319 We'll continue our coverage of Climate Week in New York. 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.720 We've got that and the un Chaneral Assembly happening as well. 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:47.520 But we're thinking about some of the businesses that are 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.840 using new technology in ways which help the planet. This 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:52.640 ahead of our big broadcasts we have tomorrow as well, 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.679 their Chat Innovation Price Summit happening in the Plaza Hotel 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:57.920 here in New York, and we'll be there thinking about 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.120 some of those innovation and solutions that can help in 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.040 the climate world too. So we want to talk about 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.960 one company operating in this space. Archive uses its tech 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.440 tech to help big fashion brands launch their own resale sites. 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:11.640 They're working with the lights of Doctor Martin's North Face 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.079 and Oscar Dela Reenta. Emily Gittins is with us. She's 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.400 co founder and CEO of Archive, and she joins us 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:18.679 from Berkeley in California. Emily, great to have you with 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:23.240 us on the program. Why do brands want to be 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.720 associated with second hand versions of their clothes? This is 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:28.240 something that I've been trying to get my head around 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.120 when trying to understand. I know it's a big thing. 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:33.080 I know people use websites to resell clothes all the time, 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.400 but getting the brands involved is a really interesting development. 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.320 Absolutely, yeah, thanks thanks for having me on the show. 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.280 So you know, this is a huge market already, the 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.920 global secondhand market is a two hundred and thirty billion 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.440 dollar market today and for gen Z, forty percent of 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:52.880 their clothing is secondhand. And so brands are realizing that 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.440 there is this huge market for their product that is 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.400 happening today mostly on third party marketplaces, and they're really 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.640 interested in owning not only that customer experience, but also 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.960 that revenue stream and helping shift to a more sustainable 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:06.839 business model as well. 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:08.640 And so there's some of the reasons that brands are 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:09.360 getting involved. 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:14.360 So explain that relationship working with them and what is 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:17.480 kind of the business model, the profitability for you guys, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:19.360 also what they get out of it. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.640 Absolutely, Yeah, So how this works is we build software 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.400 and tools that allow brands to launch a resale business 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.280 and then grow it to be you know, a significant 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:30.640 portion of their overall business. 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:32.720 So that means you could go on to the north 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:33.320 face dot. 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.559 Com north Faces e commerce site and actually buy secondhand 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.640 products through the brand facilitated through our software. 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:40.760 You know. 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.600 For brands, originally this was really for a sustainability reasons 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.640 that they were getting into this, trying to reduce their 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.559 overall footprint by encouraging more secondhand shopping and less new production. 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:53.560 What they've learned is that actually this is just a 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.920 totally new revenue stream for them, and the margin on 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.360 that that revenue stream can be quite high, sometimes even 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.960 higher than on full price business. And so really they're 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:04.760 thinking about it as a business case and a new 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.080 growth part of their business that is very fast, fast 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:08.160 growing and profitable. 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.040 So you guys are business to business correct. 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:12.000 That's right. 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.880 Yeah, we're the behind the scenes software provider that is 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.240 facilitating the software for brands to launch their own reselle 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.240 business and brands can brand that however they want. So 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.120 we have you know, New Balance, Reconsidered or north Face Renewed, 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.160 Dot Marketings REWAAR just some examples of the brands we're 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:28.880 working with today. 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.160 I wonder is it how the conversation goes with some 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.640 of the brands though, because if we're thinking about, you know, 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.360 the Oscar dell Aronas of this world is the prestige brand? 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.240 Is that a very different conversation you're having at them 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.079 when you're saying, look, I know that everything you make 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.960 is unique and amazing and brilliant, but there's also a 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:46.480 market for it to be resold. 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:48.559 That's right. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:48.800 Yeah. 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.080 I think with the luxury sector, this is much more 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:55.040 about highlighting the history, the heritage, the vintage pieces of 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.800 their brand and owning that customer experience that customers are 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:02.280 too often today having in maybe thrift shot stores or 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.439 vintage stores, but not directly through the brand. It's a 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.319 little bit of a different conversation for the more mass brands, 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:09.240 that's part of it. 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:09.480 You know. 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.920 Sometimes we'll auction off really interesting North Faced products from 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.679 collections from long ago, but it's also a new acquisition 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:19.640 channel for them, right. You know, for a lot of 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.280 these brands, people are priced out of full price product 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.080 and maybe buying lower quality items from a different brand. 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.840 Being able to give them this discounted product in a 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.680 way that you know, still represents the quality and the 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.320 excitement around the brand is a really powerful reason for 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:34.200 them to do it as well. 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.600 Emily, I'm wondering if the brands that you guys are 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.880 working with, as you mentioned Oscar, Jala, Renta, Dak, Martin's 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.440 North Face, are they realizing too that the resale customer 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.720 is different from the customer who buys things that are 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:46.200 brand new. 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:48.800 That's exactly right. 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.440 Yeah, So over fifty percent of the customers who are 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.280 shopping resale through our brands brand partners are completely new 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:57.000 to the brand. 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.360 And have never shopped with them before. 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.800 So it's really reaching that person that is priced out 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.240 of full price product and bring them into the brand, 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.120 you know, having them fall in love with the product 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.640 and then over time stay within that ecosystem for the 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.520 brand and even for the customers that are already brand customers, 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.520 they generally see a higher lifetime value for that cohort. 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:17.200 So people are. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.800 More excited about the brand when they have this resell option. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.560 They know they can resell full price product if it 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.400 doesn't work out, and so they're shopping across new and 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.680 used with higher lifetime value as well. 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.760 Is it a generational story as well? You know, is 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.080 it gen Z being influenced by thrifting brands on TikTok 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.480 that's you know, got them into the idea of owning, 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:38.360 you know, secondhand clothes. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:44.040 Absolutely yeah, I mean gen Z are obsessed with thrifting. 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.920 They're obsessed with secondhand and not buying stuff new. It's 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.240 like I said, it's forty percent of their closet. So 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.560 a really big part of how they're shopping today is 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.640 already secondhand. And brands want to have a piece of that, 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.320 but interestingly, we have actually seen it across all generations 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.720 where for some of our brands, the customers getting involved 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:02.280 with this are a. 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.480 Lot older, but the fact that they can do this 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.760 through the brand, they can go back and maybe resell 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.680 and buy pre loved items through a brand that they 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.720 know and trust versus a marketplace, is compelling them to. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.400 Start for the first time, which is exciting to see too. 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.440 It made me wonder about something like the Real Real 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.960 or something like that, what does this kind of cut 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.600 into their business? I mean it has to, I guess ultimately, 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.720 right or I don't know. What are you hearing? 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.400 Yeah, I mean it's this is a very fast growing market. 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.120 It's going to secondhand is going to grow by one 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:32.640 hundred billion in the next four years. 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:34.320 So there's a lot of opportunity out there. 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.640 And I think the way I think about it is 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.360 when I'm buying new products, sometimes I like to go 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.840 to a retailer and buy across a lot of brands. 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.000 Sometimes I like to go direct to a brand and 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.000 just buy directly through them. And so we see the 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.920 secondhand market evolving in a similar way where there's always 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.720 going to be a place for cross brand marketplaces like 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.560 the Real Real or vined, but also brands. 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.400 Will want to own that direct piece of the business. 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:00.680 I love vintage. 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.000 I'm curious, do you have vinded very od I've really 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.920 started recently actually, so this is something that is a 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.200 new world to me. And you know, in London I 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.120 have a great range of charity shops that I shop from, 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.080 but I feel like that this is this is elevated 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.240 to a different level. But Emily, I had a question 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.360 around the idea of is this also a quality control 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.120 issue for the brands that they can make sure that 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.840 the versions of their products that are out there are 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:24.960 of a certain quality because they've at least had a 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:26.880 touch with the process of resale. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:29.080 Absolutely. 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.400 Yeah, Authentication, especially in the luxury sector is a huge 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.400 risk for brands and they're seeing knockoffs on other marketplaces, 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.800 and so one of the reasons to take this in 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.080 house is to control that whole process. And we can 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.080 put in place a lot more authentication measures because we're 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.600 partnering directly with the brand than what's possible otherwise. So yeah, 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.280 it's a really good point. I'm glad to hear that 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:50.680 you're buying one secondhand as well. 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:53.480 Yeah, exactly. I think we all are right. I kind 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.320 of love it, I have to say I also like 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.280 the idea. I do think about the environment, environmental impact, right, 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.320 because we talked about the fashion industry so often and 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.639 the impact it has, you know, whether it's making a 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.320 pair of genes, but even much more broadly about kind 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.200 of disposable fashion, right fast fashion, and the impact it 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.919 has on the environment. So I do think it's a 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.320 smart thing for people to be doing. Talk to us 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.280 at bit we are Bloomberg. Talk to us attleit more 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.480 about your growth numbers, because they sound pretty dramatic, but 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.400 give us an idea. You've been doing this for a bit, 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.240 are you profitable? What's the growth plans here? 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.280 Yeah, we're seeing a huge amount of growth. We've been 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.080 around for three or four years, where you know. 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:39.240 Still a startup, but now working with fifty global brands, 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.680 including the likes of you know, New Balance, the north Face, Martin's, 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.520 these brands that really want this to be a large 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.480 proportion of their business. And so with that, we're seeing 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.280 our business grow really significantly year on year and a 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:52.160 lot more appetite. 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.679 I think what's been exciting. 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.760 Is, you know, maybe three years ago we were going 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:58.879 out and talking to brands about why they should do this, 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:00.840 and now they're coming to our knowing that this is 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:02.320 going to be such a big part of their growth 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:02.919 going forward. 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.679 Where do you see the growth path coming from? Is 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.320 it going to be those higher end brands who are 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:09.560 you getting the most interest from? 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:11.440 Yeah? 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.320 I would say it's everything from kind of the massive 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.840 the market up to the luxury brands across honestly a 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.040 range of different categories. We have a lot of success 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:24.439 with kids brands with accessories like handbags, you know, outdoor brands, 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:28.000 women's where men's wear, and even starting to have conversations 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.280 outside of fashion too, which is a really interesting thing 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.240 as we think about the other categories out there too. 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.760 Yeah, I think what the kids' marketplace, it's kind of interesting. 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.920 I'll say at Bloomberg there's like almost an internal marketplace, 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:39.639 like somebody, oh. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.600 Well, I feel like that's everywhere. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.280 Especially because when they're little, right, because you barely use 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.000 something and then someone's like, okay, here, you've got to 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.159 take this like it's brand new, please like keep make 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:48.639 use of it. 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:50.960