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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: A few weeks ago, when the leaves had just started

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Speaker 2: to turn up here in Hudson, one of our revisionist

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Speaker 2: history producers, Ben the daph Haffrey, came by the offices

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Speaker 2: of Pushkin North in the grand tradition of revisionist history.

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Speaker 2: He'd recently been flying around the country working on a

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Speaker 2: story when an unexpected encounter got him thinking about something

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Speaker 2: entirely different.

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Speaker 3: I had a really unlucky day of travel a couple

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Speaker 3: of weeks ago. I was in San Francisco and I

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Speaker 3: was trying to get to Los Angeles. But I had

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Speaker 3: to rebook my flight because of an urgent work meeting

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Speaker 3: that got moved. And when I got to the airport,

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Speaker 3: I realized i'd rebooked it two weeks after I was

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Speaker 3: trying to fly and I was trying to save money.

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Speaker 3: I got the cheapest ticket possible, so I could not

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Speaker 3: change the fight, and so I just had to rebook

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Speaker 3: on the cheap flight I could find, which was a

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Speaker 3: Southwest flight from San Francisco to Los Angeles via Las Vegas,

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Speaker 3: which makes no sense, absolutely no sense. So then I

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Speaker 3: got on the air train going the wrong way. I

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Speaker 3: wound up in this like median strip of the highway

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Speaker 3: that was coming from a wedding, and my suit bag broke,

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Speaker 3: my suit was flying all over the place, and just

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Speaker 3: a bad luck day. But you know, I made the flight,

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Speaker 3: wound up in Vegas and they had all these slot

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Speaker 3: machines in the airport, just a dreadful airport. As you've

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Speaker 3: recently pointed out, This was my first time in Vegas,

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Speaker 3: and I had exactly one dollar in my pocket, and

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Speaker 3: I thought, you know, my luck has been so bad,

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Speaker 3: surely it's time for it to change. And so, having

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Speaker 3: never played a slot machine before, I put the dollar

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Speaker 3: in this like kung fu slot machine and just promptly

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Speaker 3: lost it. Just lost my dollar entirely, so defeed it.

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Speaker 3: I got on my flight on Southwest where they let

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Speaker 3: you choose your seat, so I was just walking resignably

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Speaker 3: down the aisle and then I see an open seat

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Speaker 3: next to an off duty pilot, which suddenly made me

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Speaker 3: think that my luck was changing, because I was like,

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Speaker 3: here is a chance for me to finally ask a

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Speaker 3: question that I have for a very long time been

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Speaker 3: obsessed with answering. Yeah, why do all pilots have the

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Speaker 3: same voice?

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Revision's history, my show about things Overlooked and Misunderstood.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode is a conversation with Ben Adaf Haffrey, digging

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Speaker 2: into whether and why all pilots sound the same and

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Speaker 2: what that might tell us about aviation and human nature.

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Speaker 3: All Right, so I'm on this unnecessary flight from Vegas,

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Speaker 3: Los Angeles, saying next to an off duty pilot who

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Speaker 3: I had later learned was named Rob.

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Speaker 1: Wait, how do you How do you know he's a pilot?

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Speaker 3: So you know he's a pilot because he's got like

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Speaker 3: the apolets on his shoulder, the stripes, short sleep button

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Speaker 3: and shirt, and also a lanyard that said like Pilots

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Speaker 3: Association or something like that. Yeah, you could, you could

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Speaker 3: tell immediately. So I see my golden opportunity. And I

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Speaker 3: asked Rob about pilot voice.

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Speaker 4: Do you have a sense that all people think pilots

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Speaker 4: have the same voice.

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Speaker 5: I definitely have a sense that there's a idea that

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Speaker 5: we kind of make certain noises on the intercome Jack,

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Speaker 5: But it's this, I guess. My My first question to

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Speaker 5: you is do you do you share this sense? If

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Speaker 5: I were to ask you, what does a pilot sound like?

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Speaker 5: Is there a voice in your mind?

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's the it's the the analogy is to

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Speaker 2: you know, in medicine, it's bedside manner, and what is

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Speaker 2: bedside manner? A lot of bedside manner is just the

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Speaker 2: the way in which the doctor addresses you.

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Speaker 3: But there's not I don't feel like there is a

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Speaker 3: doctor's voice in the same way as there is a

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Speaker 3: pilot's voice. No, no, Like I think there's a cultural

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Speaker 3: understanding of what a pilot sounds like that doesn't exist

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Speaker 3: for hardly any other social role. I mean, so I

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Speaker 3: was thinking about this. You have all these pilots in

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Speaker 3: the media, like Quagmire on Family Guy.

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Speaker 5: Good afternoon, ladies, and gentlemen.

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Speaker 6: This is your captain, Glenn Quagmire.

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Speaker 5: We're looking about a four and a half hour flight

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Speaker 5: time today.

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Speaker 3: Giggity Man Damon on thirty Rock, Well back.

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Speaker 7: It looks like it's gonna be about another half hour

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Speaker 7: and then we'll.

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Speaker 8: Be on our way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the U sound is a universal component of pilot voice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, universal. And I mean this is the thing I

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Speaker 3: talked about with Rob like he does OZ all the time. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so where does that come from? I think there's some

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Speaker 3: truth to it.

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Speaker 5: I mean, obviously it sucks, completely true. But yeah, we're

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Speaker 5: up there, we're multitasking, and we get get a little busy,

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Speaker 5: and we're trying to make an announcement, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 5: sometimes you don't really think about completely what you're gonna say.

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Speaker 5: You know, the basics, but your brain's still putting it together,

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Speaker 5: you know, so just human nature.

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Speaker 3: You know, your brain's taking a pause. And in fact,

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Speaker 3: he even copped to the fact that sometimes he does

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Speaker 3: an extra long uh like he will actually draw out not.

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Speaker 5: All right, I have a couple of times, not often,

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Speaker 5: but I have kind of drawn that out on purpose

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Speaker 5: whatever you would call that sound, just for fun, you know.

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Speaker 5: But like you said earlier, I have no idea if

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Speaker 5: anybody in the in the back laughed or even picked

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Speaker 5: up what I was throwing down.

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Speaker 3: You've like actually done an extra long uh ridiculously long.

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Speaker 4: It's just enough to what's like an average line.

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Speaker 5: Maybe, but you have to do it a little bit

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Speaker 5: of a lower tone than that, though, you know, well,

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Speaker 5: I just want like it's gotta have that lower lower tone.

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Speaker 1: Oh God, rob Is, God said Rob Is. I.

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Speaker 3: It had such a bad day. And then I sat

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Speaker 3: next to Rob and I was like, I am I

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Speaker 3: am being blessed right now. And I got off the

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Speaker 3: plane and I swear to God. When I was at

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Speaker 3: the baggage claim, I walked by these two people who

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Speaker 3: were talking in LA and one of them was saying

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Speaker 3: to the other person like, well, you know the ancient

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Speaker 3: notion of the wheel at fortune right, And the guy

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Speaker 3: was like, no, what's that. He's like, well, it's like

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Speaker 3: Fortune's a wheel, so you have like your bad luck,

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Speaker 3: and then it comes around to good lock. I swear

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Speaker 3: to God. I just I was like, what is good

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Speaker 3: you like die in Las Vegas? And then like this

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Speaker 3: is just purgatory is bouncing between these two airports. But

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Speaker 3: then when I landed in Los Angeles, I was like,

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Speaker 3: I should actually figure out if it's just me having

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Speaker 3: watched too many movies and not flown in enough planes,

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Speaker 3: and talk to some people and see what they say.

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Speaker 3: What does a pilot sound like?

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Speaker 4: What does a pilot sound like? Yeah? Like is there

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Speaker 4: a pilot's voice? Yes, it's going and robotic. It's used

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Speaker 4: for impersonation. Oh you're gonna do it.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry ladies and gemen, please fasten your seatbelts. Apologize

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Speaker 3: for the rough air, but we should be through it

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Speaker 3: here in about ten minutes or so.

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Speaker 8: And then you got to drag them out, like, aw,

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Speaker 8: we should be riding about ten minutes or so.

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Speaker 4: All the time is seven o'clock. All this consistent when

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Speaker 4: you're when you're a sense of the pilot's worse. She'd right,

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Speaker 4: it's like robotic.

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Speaker 9: Typically they sound the same.

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Speaker 6: I don't know how or why.

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Speaker 10: Is it just they've heard other pilots do it and

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Speaker 10: they feel this is how I've got to talk.

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Speaker 4: What I'm wondering is like, do all pilots sound the same? Yes?

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Speaker 4: They do? They do?

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Speaker 1: They always say folks, folks.

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Speaker 10: Yes, I think in general, yes, they have like the

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Speaker 10: same type of tone, and they're all like pretty polished

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Speaker 10: like whenever they come on like on like on the planet,

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Speaker 10: like Banacom or whatever, they all sound the same.

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Speaker 4: What does a pilot sound like.

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Speaker 10: Like a robot?

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Speaker 4: Do you think all pilots sound the.

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Speaker 10: Same, Yes, except for the black ones.

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Speaker 4: Except the ones? Interesting? What did they sound like? Lat

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Speaker 4: and the rest sound.

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Speaker 11: Like yo people?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Wait a minute, you know about what Tom Wolfe says

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Speaker 2: about this and the right stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's Jaeger. It's all Chuck Yeger.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, racking the.

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Speaker 9: Sound barrier, and the X one marked another milestone in

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Speaker 9: av ah in history Good Time October fourteenth, nineteen forty seven,

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Speaker 9: No Pilots Captain and.

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Speaker 3: Chuck Jeger Chuck Yeger, the famous test pilot from West

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Speaker 3: Virginia who in nineteen forty seven breaks the sound barrier.

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Speaker 3: The X one was mine because I was trained in

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Speaker 3: maintenance and I understood systems, and obviously he could fly

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Speaker 3: an airplane. So Yeah, Tom Wolf writes The Right Stuff

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy nine. Later it becomes a big movie, and

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Speaker 3: he identifies this phenomenon that all pilots sound the same

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Speaker 3: and specifically attributes it to the sounding like Chuck Yeger.

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Speaker 2: And in The Right Stuff, there's that moment where Yeah,

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Speaker 2: played by Sam Shefferd says when he's dismissing astronauts, they're

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Speaker 2: spam in a can.

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Speaker 1: And it's pilot voice.

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Speaker 2: Tell you what else.

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Speaker 7: Anybody goes up and the damn thing is gonna be

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Speaker 7: spam in a can.

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Speaker 3: Actually brought the passage from the Right Stuff if you

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Speaker 3: want to read.

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Speaker 2: It, Okay, here goes Anyone who travels very much on

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Speaker 2: airlines in the United States soon gets to know the

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Speaker 2: voice of the airline pilot coming over the intercom with

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Speaker 2: a particular drawl, a particular folksiness, a particular down home

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Speaker 2: calmness that is so exaggerated it begins to parody itself.

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Speaker 2: The voice that tells you, as the airliner is caught

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Speaker 2: in thunderheads and goes bolting up and down a thousand

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Speaker 2: feet at a single gulp, to check your seatbelts because

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Speaker 2: it might get a little choppy. Who doesn't know that voice,

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Speaker 2: and who can forget it even after he has proved

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Speaker 2: right and the emergency is over. That particular voice may

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Speaker 2: sound vaguely Southern or Southwestern, but it is specifically Appellationian

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Speaker 2: in origin. It originated in the mountains of West Virginia,

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Speaker 2: in the coal country in Lincoln County, so far up

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Speaker 2: in the hollows that as the saying went, they had

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Speaker 2: to pipe in daylight. In the late nineteen forties and

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Speaker 2: early nineteen fifties, this up hollow voice drifted down from

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Speaker 2: on high, from over the high desert of California, down down, down,

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Speaker 2: from the upper reaches of their brotherhood into all phases

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Speaker 2: of American aviation. It was amazing. It was pygmalion in reverse.

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Speaker 2: Military pilots and then soon airline pilots, pilots from Maine

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Speaker 2: and Massachusetts and the Dakotas in Oregon and everywhere else,

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Speaker 2: began to talk in that poker hollow West Virginia drawl,

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Speaker 2: or as close to it as it could bend their

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Speaker 2: native accents. It was the drawl of the most righteous

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Speaker 2: of all the possessors of the right stuff.

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Speaker 1: Chuck ying the Tomolf is so.

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Speaker 3: Just amazing, so good.

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Speaker 1: He's just it's just like it's Tumolf is just the best.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I like that. He's just you know, he

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Speaker 3: was not in airports asking everybody if they agreed that

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Speaker 3: all pilots sounded this way. He was just like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I got it. But I don't actually think that's a

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Speaker 3: sufficient explanation for what pilot voice is, partially because like,

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Speaker 3: when was the last time you you listened to Chuck Yeger.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I ever have.

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Speaker 3: I know, Sam Shepard, it's not the pilot voice. I

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Speaker 3: believe there's some essential Jaeger nests that is preserved in

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Speaker 3: the pilot's voice, but it's not like a note for

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Speaker 3: note replication of that thing.

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Speaker 2: You I'm as interested in a word choice. So folks

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Speaker 2: is clearly.

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Speaker 3: Huge there's a Someone at LAX also pointed this out specifically.

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Speaker 2: What are other vocabulary choices that are central to pilot voice?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the euphemisms are huge. So the near

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Speaker 3: miss Bumpierre, Choppier.

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Speaker 2: Diminutives a little bit of turbulent, It got a little

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Speaker 2: bit of Ye, it's not lackadaisical, but it is. They

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Speaker 2: want to they do want to signal that these problems

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Speaker 2: are so trivial that they can barely muster, you know,

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Speaker 2: normal levels of enthusiasm to It's just everything's just kind

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Speaker 2: of I've seen it all before, kind of Yeah, there's

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Speaker 2: a Can I do a little thing about the evolutionary

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Speaker 2: basis for a pilot voice? So stress, one of the

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Speaker 2: things that stress does is raise your voice. Right, So

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Speaker 2: one of the signatures of someone who is under a

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Speaker 2: great deal of stress, for experiencing a high anxiety moment,

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Speaker 2: is their voice rises in is it pitch?

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Speaker 3: It's also probably like I bet your vocal cords titan,

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Speaker 3: and then you become less resonant.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I would suspect there's and so we're conditioned

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Speaker 2: evolutionarily to interpret somebody with a kind of a high

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Speaker 2: fast speech cadence as being terrified. So the pilot necessarily

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Speaker 2: has to be the person who speaks slowly and low

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Speaker 2: if he's trying to communicate calm.

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Speaker 3: You think you think people are you're you think people

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Speaker 3: are making hires based in part on whether or not

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Speaker 3: you have the right pilot voice.

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Speaker 2: We already know that in every other job some aspect

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Speaker 2: of physical presentation matters hugely and who gets who gets

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Speaker 2: hired or not right, So when it comes to hiring pilots,

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Speaker 2: you would be if you're the hiring person even unconsciously

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Speaker 2: powerfully disposed to hire someone who who conformed to pilot stereotype.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look at the way that there was a

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Speaker 2: whole separate set of things for years that governed what

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Speaker 2: a stewardess.

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Speaker 1: Was supposed to be.

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Speaker 2: A flight atten was supposed to be right, it was

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Speaker 2: right down. They would like measure there. They would do

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Speaker 2: body measurements of women who are trying to be flood

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Speaker 2: attens in the You had to look a certain way,

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Speaker 2: have a certain shape, you know, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. We

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Speaker 2: don't think that applies to pilots, the one actually flying

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Speaker 2: the plane.

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Speaker 3: Well, like a lot of the pilot voice thing, the

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Speaker 3: first thing people say is is just the speakers. And

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Speaker 3: the second thing people say is is because they're all

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Speaker 3: white guys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the most hierarchical institutions in our society are still

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Speaker 2: all dominated by white guys, particularly tall, tall, middle aged

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Speaker 2: white guys. That's what CEOs are, That's what pilots are,

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Speaker 2: that's what neurosurgeons are, that's what you know presidents are.

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Speaker 1: That's what I make it go on.

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Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, the same stereotyping and bias is applied

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Speaker 3: in piloting, and it is statistically true, like about ninety

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Speaker 3: five percent of pilots are white and about ninety five

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Speaker 3: percent of pilots are male, at least as of twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two numbers. That is changing, but historically it has

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Speaker 3: always been a very white male profession and it continues

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Speaker 3: to be so. But like, not every white guy sounds

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Speaker 3: the same. And similarly, a lot of pilots were in

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Speaker 3: the Air Force, but not every veteran sounds the same.

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Speaker 3: So this has some explanatory force, but not total explanatory force.

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Speaker 3: There's still some weird extra kind of convergence happening even

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Speaker 3: within this group. So this is where I think this

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Speaker 3: all leaves us. There is an idea at least that

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Speaker 3: there is a pilot voice. Tom Wolfe says it's Jeger,

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Speaker 3: But I really don't think it's enough to say that

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Speaker 3: all pilots are imitating Chuck Yeger. I mean, it is

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Speaker 3: clear to me that there's an attitude of Jaeger that

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Speaker 3: has been preserved, but it's not really his voice. And

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Speaker 3: I mean Rob had not even heard Chuck Yeger.

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Speaker 5: I certainly don't know what his voice sounded like. I can't,

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Speaker 5: I can't think of it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I.

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Speaker 5: Don't think it was anything that I consciously was doing.

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Speaker 5: But I think you've got me thinking maybe I dropped

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Speaker 5: my voice down a pitch. I think I do they

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Speaker 5: even realize?

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Speaker 3: So something's up. It's not just Chuck Yeger. What I'm

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Speaker 3: interested in is what does that voice represent and how

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Speaker 3: did it happen that they all sound alike.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back. Can do another analogy here, believe.

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Speaker 2: So I was thinking about this as you're talking, which

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Speaker 2: is there's a whole literature on contrition in the cases

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Speaker 2: of accused criminals. So you're in court, you're making your statement,

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Speaker 2: or you're talking and jury's listening. One of the things

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Speaker 2: that jury's way that heaviest is whether or not they

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Speaker 2: feel like the accused is displaying contrition. Right, they have

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Speaker 2: an expectator, there's an expectation about a certain mode of

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Speaker 2: self presentation. Now, no one really knows what contrition looks like.

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Speaker 2: Is there actually isn't you know? We know what happiness

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Speaker 2: looks like, we know what anxiety looks like, we know

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Speaker 2: what anger looks like. We don't really know what contrition

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Speaker 2: looks like. All we know is that contrition is really, really,

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Speaker 2: really important, and in its absence, juries deliver much harsher penalties,

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Speaker 2: much more likely to call you guilty, or the judge

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Speaker 2: is much more like col to give you a long sentence.

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Speaker 2: So there's a kind of this is there's a feedback

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Speaker 2: loop between the party that's giving a presentation and the

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Speaker 2: part is listening, And I wonder what the pilot is

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Speaker 2: expected to communicate? Is competence and reassurance? Right now? Do

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Speaker 2: we have a formal definition of what those things are?

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Speaker 2: Not really known, not not any more than we do

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Speaker 2: for contrition. But that doesn't mean that we don't spend

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Speaker 2: a huge amount of time communicating it. And we kind

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Speaker 2: of know it when we you know, this is a

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Speaker 2: vague thing that we know of when we see it.

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Speaker 2: People certainly can say he did not you hear all

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Speaker 2: the time Jerry's saying it.

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Speaker 1: Did not seem right? Contrite right?

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Speaker 2: Anyway, This is all like a long way of saying,

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Speaker 2: is there is this? Like I would just I agree

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Speaker 2: with everything I say, I would just say I would

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Speaker 2: add this that it's a loop with the audience expectation.

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Speaker 3: Well, so there are these clear ingredients in the pilot

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Speaker 3: voice as it's used by pilots and expected by passengers.

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Speaker 3: You got the drawn out oz, the slow pace, maybe

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Speaker 3: a bit of southern drawl. But I want to get

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Speaker 3: into the mechanisms by which a whole profession could converge

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Speaker 3: on a specific voice. So I talked to this speech psychologist,

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Speaker 3: Jennifer S. Pardo, who's the director of the Speech Communication

347
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Speaker 3: Laboratory at Montclair State University, you know, called her up,

348
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Speaker 3: said I want to talk to you about pilot voice.

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Speaker 3: Ever hear of it?

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Speaker 8: I actually asked my husband about it yesterday. He used

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Speaker 8: to actually do flight training for a while, just you know,

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Speaker 8: as a hobby, and he said, oh, yeah, there's definitely

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Speaker 8: definitely pilot voice. Well, what did he and he's like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 8: it's totally from Chuck Yeager. Yeah, he definitely felt like

355
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Speaker 8: there was I wouldn't say pressure, but he definitely felt

356
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Speaker 8: the need to get into this mode of speaking when

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Speaker 8: he was in flight training, to you know, to show

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Speaker 8: that he was.

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Speaker 11: Part of the group here. I was like, really, why

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Speaker 11: did you never.

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Speaker 1: Tell me this?

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Speaker 3: So Jen specifically works on something called phonetic convergence and

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Speaker 3: also communication accommodation theory, which is basically it's this, it's

364
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Speaker 3: a theoretical frame for a thing that most of us experienced.

365
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Speaker 3: Like you go to London as an American, You're there

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Speaker 3: for two weeks, and by the end of the two weeks,

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Speaker 3: you start maybe there's some British mannerisms work their way

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Speaker 3: out your speech. Communication accommodation is the study of the

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Speaker 3: way what the mechanism of that is, how you sort

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Speaker 3: of modify your way of speaking to belong to an

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Speaker 3: in group or to distinguish yourself from an out group.

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Speaker 3: And for pilots, it's something that could be happening basically

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Speaker 3: unwinningly because of how much else they're doing in the cockpit.

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Speaker 8: So research and pinetic convergence is trying to really pinpoint

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Speaker 8: some of these internal cognitive mechanisms and how they play

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Speaker 8: around with each other, and this idea of cognitive load

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Speaker 8: and multitasking. Right, if it's an automatic process, it's something

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Speaker 8: that would be harder to suppress when you're multitasking.

379
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Speaker 3: Jen studies this. So she actually looked at like roommates

380
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Speaker 3: who live together in college and their does the way

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Speaker 3: they speak converge over the course of a semester, which

382
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Speaker 3: often it does, But she said an interesting thing, which

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Speaker 3: is we tend to think of communication as a one

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Speaker 3: way thing, like broadcasting functionally, but it is it is

385
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Speaker 3: a two way thing. So half of it is how

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Speaker 3: you're communicating. Half of it is how you're being perceived.

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Speaker 8: Like if you really were to look at it, like

388
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Speaker 8: really really look at it, like take you know, take

389
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Speaker 8: a recording, compare the recording right to other recordings, put

390
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Speaker 8: it in a scientific setting, in a scientific experiment, you'd

391
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Speaker 8: probably find more differences than similarities, but the similarities matter

392
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Speaker 8: maybe more. Right, So there is this other thing going

393
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Speaker 8: on where socially or psychologically, because we believe it to

394
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Speaker 8: be true, we look for evidence that it's true every

395
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Speaker 8: time we hear it. And if we don't get the

396
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Speaker 8: evidence from one aspect of the way the person is talking,

397
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Speaker 8: we might see it in another aspect of the way

398
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Speaker 8: that the person is talking right. If it's not there

399
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Speaker 8: in the vocabulary, it might be there in something about

400
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Speaker 8: the sentence structure. Or it might just be that they

401
00:22:01,996 --> 00:22:05,916
Speaker 8: all went up right. It could just be one little

402
00:22:05,916 --> 00:22:07,796
Speaker 8: thing that they're all doing and we're like, Okay, they

403
00:22:07,796 --> 00:22:09,076
Speaker 8: did it right, they did the thing.

404
00:22:10,356 --> 00:22:13,316
Speaker 3: I do think that is a crucial element to the

405
00:22:13,356 --> 00:22:16,516
Speaker 3: pilot voice thing. Of course, it's not true that all

406
00:22:16,516 --> 00:22:19,436
Speaker 3: pilots have exactly the same voice, But insofar as the

407
00:22:19,436 --> 00:22:22,516
Speaker 3: majority of people I've spoken to, most people you come

408
00:22:22,556 --> 00:22:24,196
Speaker 3: across on the street, if you ask them this question,

409
00:22:24,236 --> 00:22:26,436
Speaker 3: what does a pilot sound like? Have the same voice

410
00:22:26,436 --> 00:22:29,876
Speaker 3: in their mind? Some of that is just projection. And

411
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Speaker 3: I think it's projection from a place of needing security.

412
00:22:34,116 --> 00:22:36,036
Speaker 3: Having the question in the back of your mind of

413
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Speaker 3: your pilot, that Tom Wolf question, do they have the

414
00:22:38,476 --> 00:22:42,116
Speaker 3: right stuff? Yeah? And so there is that kind of

415
00:22:42,556 --> 00:22:45,236
Speaker 3: that's that's part of this projection thing you're referring to

416
00:22:45,316 --> 00:22:48,956
Speaker 3: as well, like the expectation thing. But it's interesting because

417
00:22:49,156 --> 00:22:54,876
Speaker 3: you see and interact with flight attendants, but you typically

418
00:22:54,916 --> 00:22:58,636
Speaker 3: do not see the pilot until the plane has safely landed,

419
00:22:59,196 --> 00:23:01,676
Speaker 3: so the only point of contact you have with your

420
00:23:01,676 --> 00:23:04,556
Speaker 3: pilot until then is the voice. Yeah, which they're also

421
00:23:04,636 --> 00:23:07,396
Speaker 3: aware of. And also it's this, it's this crazy situation

422
00:23:07,676 --> 00:23:10,356
Speaker 3: of they are speaking the several hundred people, all of

423
00:23:10,436 --> 00:23:13,716
Speaker 3: whom have some kind of background anxiety about flying, which is,

424
00:23:13,756 --> 00:23:16,116
Speaker 3: you know, in my opinion, just a completely unnatural thing

425
00:23:16,156 --> 00:23:18,516
Speaker 3: to do, Like we were not given wings for a reason,

426
00:23:18,916 --> 00:23:21,756
Speaker 3: so you're rocketing through the air in this metal tube

427
00:23:21,836 --> 00:23:25,636
Speaker 3: and human error is the number one cause of plane accidents.

428
00:23:26,196 --> 00:23:30,156
Speaker 3: So you only have the pilot's voice as a way

429
00:23:30,156 --> 00:23:32,916
Speaker 3: of judging how competent this person is at their actual job,

430
00:23:33,156 --> 00:23:36,396
Speaker 3: which is something they also are aware of. I actually

431
00:23:36,476 --> 00:23:38,916
Speaker 3: talked to a captain who named Karen, who's been flying

432
00:23:38,916 --> 00:23:41,796
Speaker 3: for a few decades, and she was perfect for this because,

433
00:23:41,836 --> 00:23:44,356
Speaker 3: in addition to being a captain, she teaches that something

434
00:23:44,436 --> 00:23:48,676
Speaker 3: called the Fear of Flying Clinic, which is ironic because.

435
00:23:48,876 --> 00:23:51,796
Speaker 11: My last name is not a great pilot thing, so.

436
00:23:53,796 --> 00:23:56,596
Speaker 12: You want to my last name is Stall and even

437
00:23:56,636 --> 00:23:59,316
Speaker 12: though there's an age in it, it sounds the exact same,

438
00:23:59,476 --> 00:24:01,236
Speaker 12: so people will hear.

439
00:24:01,636 --> 00:24:03,996
Speaker 11: So I never say this is Captain Stall.

440
00:24:04,236 --> 00:24:07,356
Speaker 9: I always say this is the captain speaking, but I

441
00:24:07,396 --> 00:24:09,996
Speaker 9: always break that up just so that if there is

442
00:24:10,036 --> 00:24:13,756
Speaker 9: someone back there who's feeling the you know, nervous about flying,

443
00:24:13,796 --> 00:24:15,436
Speaker 9: that can be like, Okay, that's a sign I gotta

444
00:24:15,436 --> 00:24:15,876
Speaker 9: get out.

445
00:24:15,716 --> 00:24:19,476
Speaker 3: Of here, Captain Stall. Yeah, that's that's really unfortunate.

446
00:24:20,796 --> 00:24:22,156
Speaker 1: I met. It's hilarious.

447
00:24:22,796 --> 00:24:26,716
Speaker 3: Captain Stall airline pilot, also an expert on why people

448
00:24:26,756 --> 00:24:30,036
Speaker 3: are terrified of flying, something she can empathize with because

449
00:24:30,116 --> 00:24:33,836
Speaker 3: she herself really dislikes public speaking. Can I ask when

450
00:24:33,836 --> 00:24:37,036
Speaker 3: you were starting, did you feel when you made your

451
00:24:37,076 --> 00:24:40,276
Speaker 3: first PA's okay, I know what a pilot's supposed to

452
00:24:40,356 --> 00:24:42,716
Speaker 3: sound like, and how do I do my version of

453
00:24:42,756 --> 00:24:45,276
Speaker 3: the voice or how conscious were you of this thing?

454
00:24:46,076 --> 00:24:46,236
Speaker 9: Oh?

455
00:24:46,236 --> 00:24:51,076
Speaker 12: I was terrified because I would imagine everybody's listening tuned

456
00:24:51,076 --> 00:24:55,036
Speaker 12: in and going, oh my gosh, who is that? And

457
00:24:55,476 --> 00:24:58,916
Speaker 12: her voice doesn't sound like what I'm expecting up there?

458
00:24:58,996 --> 00:25:03,636
Speaker 12: And also not even just that, I just wasn't comfortable

459
00:25:03,636 --> 00:25:07,516
Speaker 12: with a microphone in my hand. So I guarantee you

460
00:25:07,556 --> 00:25:09,876
Speaker 12: my voice was not reassuring when I was making my

461
00:25:09,916 --> 00:25:12,676
Speaker 12: first feel because I was too nervous. I was very

462
00:25:12,676 --> 00:25:15,236
Speaker 12: comfortable with the flying part, but not with them making.

463
00:25:15,796 --> 00:25:17,876
Speaker 12: I would also say it's always the male that you

464
00:25:17,956 --> 00:25:20,476
Speaker 12: hear as a pilot voice when when somebody's talking about

465
00:25:20,476 --> 00:25:23,676
Speaker 12: the pilot voice. So that's one thing about, you know,

466
00:25:23,756 --> 00:25:28,676
Speaker 12: being a woman in this job is trying to get

467
00:25:28,716 --> 00:25:32,236
Speaker 12: that voice out there for the girls and for them,

468
00:25:32,316 --> 00:25:34,676
Speaker 12: for the boys, for just people in general, to know

469
00:25:35,156 --> 00:25:38,956
Speaker 12: it's not all just guy's flying point.

470
00:25:39,436 --> 00:25:43,676
Speaker 2: You know, she has a great voice, doesn't she.

471
00:25:43,676 --> 00:25:44,916
Speaker 3: She does have a great voice.

472
00:25:45,356 --> 00:25:46,636
Speaker 1: She's funny too, though.

473
00:25:46,716 --> 00:25:50,676
Speaker 2: I wonder what I wonder is what, like, do we

474
00:25:50,796 --> 00:25:52,796
Speaker 2: like the fact that she seems to have a little

475
00:25:52,796 --> 00:25:53,676
Speaker 2: bit of a sense of humor.

476
00:25:54,556 --> 00:25:55,196
Speaker 1: I think we do.

477
00:25:55,516 --> 00:25:57,476
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like there is a certain kind of

478
00:25:57,556 --> 00:26:00,236
Speaker 3: humor that's not trying to make you laugh, but it

479
00:26:00,316 --> 00:26:04,236
Speaker 3: shows that the person finds the situation amusing. It's like

480
00:26:04,276 --> 00:26:06,156
Speaker 3: more a reflection of the fact that they're kind of

481
00:26:06,236 --> 00:26:08,636
Speaker 3: amused by everything than that they're you know, trying to

482
00:26:08,676 --> 00:26:11,716
Speaker 3: be a median or something. You just you want somebody.

483
00:26:11,876 --> 00:26:13,956
Speaker 3: You want somebody who's got like a pretty upbeat view

484
00:26:13,996 --> 00:26:15,596
Speaker 3: of the world and is unharried.

485
00:26:15,796 --> 00:26:19,596
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Yeah, she has that. That is that

486
00:26:19,716 --> 00:26:24,636
Speaker 2: kind of one eyebrows slightly raised.

487
00:26:25,116 --> 00:26:27,596
Speaker 3: Yeah, like she gets what's funny about her name, for instance.

488
00:26:27,876 --> 00:26:29,996
Speaker 3: But where it leads to me is it does seem

489
00:26:30,076 --> 00:26:32,436
Speaker 3: like there's an awareness in pilots that you have to

490
00:26:32,476 --> 00:26:36,276
Speaker 3: communicate competence sound like a pilot, because you're answerable to

491
00:26:36,316 --> 00:26:38,356
Speaker 3: the people on the back who don't have any other

492
00:26:38,396 --> 00:26:40,356
Speaker 3: way of telling if you're doing a good job, like

493
00:26:40,436 --> 00:26:43,556
Speaker 3: they don't know at all what it means to fly

494
00:26:43,716 --> 00:26:45,076
Speaker 3: the plane, right, yeah.

495
00:26:45,276 --> 00:26:46,276
Speaker 1: Yeah.

496
00:26:46,316 --> 00:26:50,156
Speaker 11: And then in terms of conveying to people, one thing

497
00:26:50,156 --> 00:26:52,876
Speaker 11: that I've found it's very helpful for people to hear

498
00:26:52,916 --> 00:26:56,316
Speaker 11: your voice when there is triberlains because people just want

499
00:26:56,316 --> 00:27:00,876
Speaker 11: to hear your voice and then they can go like,

500
00:27:00,956 --> 00:27:05,556
Speaker 11: oh o good. So for me, it's just trying to be.

501
00:27:06,916 --> 00:27:11,436
Speaker 12: Natural and comfortable and making pas that are reassuring to people.

502
00:27:11,916 --> 00:27:12,476
Speaker 3: That's the goal.

503
00:27:12,516 --> 00:27:13,036
Speaker 1: It's going to be.

504
00:27:13,076 --> 00:27:16,196
Speaker 7: More what the message is and the tone of voice

505
00:27:16,196 --> 00:27:19,396
Speaker 7: so that it's not something that's going to make somebody fearful,

506
00:27:19,476 --> 00:27:22,516
Speaker 7: just in the fact that if my voice sounded fear

507
00:27:22,516 --> 00:27:23,476
Speaker 7: inducing in some way.

508
00:27:24,756 --> 00:27:27,316
Speaker 3: But then the question I had after Gen Pardo and

509
00:27:27,356 --> 00:27:30,196
Speaker 3: Captain Stall is how are all these pilots arriving at

510
00:27:30,316 --> 00:27:33,116
Speaker 3: essentially the same answer for how to convey these basic

511
00:27:33,156 --> 00:27:36,316
Speaker 3: assurances with their voice. And I talked to a pilot

512
00:27:36,356 --> 00:27:39,476
Speaker 3: who said that everything in flying is either technique or procedure,

513
00:27:39,836 --> 00:27:44,196
Speaker 3: and that most of flying is procedure, including you know,

514
00:27:44,356 --> 00:27:49,116
Speaker 3: when you're descending you call out the altitude at certain points,

515
00:27:49,196 --> 00:27:51,076
Speaker 3: or when you put the gear down you say gear down.

516
00:27:51,436 --> 00:27:53,956
Speaker 3: It's like you say a specific thing at a certain moment.

517
00:27:54,076 --> 00:27:57,556
Speaker 3: That's procedure. Technique is things like we have to lose altitude.

518
00:27:57,596 --> 00:27:59,276
Speaker 3: There's a number of ways a pilot could do that.

519
00:27:59,676 --> 00:28:03,236
Speaker 3: But also it's communicating with your passengers. There is no

520
00:28:03,996 --> 00:28:06,716
Speaker 3: script or set of things that you have to do

521
00:28:07,036 --> 00:28:09,956
Speaker 3: when communicating with the passengers for something that they are

522
00:28:10,036 --> 00:28:12,396
Speaker 3: guidelines or samples of what you might say, but it's

523
00:28:12,436 --> 00:28:15,556
Speaker 3: not so strictly prescribed as other parts of flying are.

524
00:28:16,476 --> 00:28:18,636
Speaker 3: So part of what I think is going on here

525
00:28:19,116 --> 00:28:23,236
Speaker 3: is these are intensely rule bound people who are used

526
00:28:23,276 --> 00:28:28,036
Speaker 3: to following standard operating procedure and nearly everything that they do.

527
00:28:28,356 --> 00:28:30,396
Speaker 3: They know it's a really high stakes job. They know

528
00:28:30,436 --> 00:28:33,036
Speaker 3: that communicating with the passengers is a really high stakes thing,

529
00:28:33,476 --> 00:28:35,756
Speaker 3: and so when they speak to the passengers, it's like

530
00:28:36,436 --> 00:28:40,996
Speaker 3: it's procedure masquerading as technique, and they're actually in their

531
00:28:41,036 --> 00:28:43,836
Speaker 3: minds like reaching for what does a pilot sound like?

532
00:28:43,836 --> 00:28:46,156
Speaker 3: What does a pilot say? This sort of thing that's

533
00:28:46,196 --> 00:28:49,596
Speaker 3: totally unnecessary, but it is a kind of competence theater.

534
00:28:50,116 --> 00:28:52,956
Speaker 2: So why is Tom Cruise allowed to break all the

535
00:28:52,996 --> 00:28:55,436
Speaker 2: pilot rules?

536
00:28:55,436 --> 00:28:56,996
Speaker 3: Why is Maverick allowed to?

537
00:28:57,196 --> 00:28:57,676
Speaker 1: In general?

538
00:28:57,676 --> 00:29:01,516
Speaker 2: Though Tom Cruise even a mission impossible? You know, he

539
00:29:01,676 --> 00:29:06,116
Speaker 2: instead of playing the kind of cool, calm, unflappable, he's

540
00:29:06,156 --> 00:29:09,596
Speaker 2: always sprinting madly from one thing to the next, and like,

541
00:29:10,796 --> 00:29:14,596
Speaker 2: but it's a persona that he brings to one movie

542
00:29:14,636 --> 00:29:18,276
Speaker 2: after another, including his pilot roles, where he gets to

543
00:29:18,316 --> 00:29:22,156
Speaker 2: deviate from what we normally he's a hero who gets

544
00:29:22,156 --> 00:29:24,956
Speaker 2: to he's essentially a jackass in these movies.

545
00:29:24,956 --> 00:29:28,396
Speaker 3: Well, Tom Cruise plays Tom Cruise. I mean, like that's

546
00:29:28,476 --> 00:29:30,436
Speaker 3: the part of it is, like you just know it's

547
00:29:30,596 --> 00:29:33,076
Speaker 3: him in every role, and there is this kind of

548
00:29:33,476 --> 00:29:36,516
Speaker 3: I remember there's there's one I forget what movie they

549
00:29:36,556 --> 00:29:38,076
Speaker 3: were reviewing. I think it was a New York Times

550
00:29:38,076 --> 00:29:41,076
Speaker 3: review of a Tom Cruise movie. It's like, this has

551
00:29:41,076 --> 00:29:43,636
Speaker 3: nothing to do with the pilot thing, but so much

552
00:29:43,636 --> 00:29:46,636
Speaker 3: of the cultural narrative around him right now is he's

553
00:29:46,636 --> 00:29:50,076
Speaker 3: the last movie star. Like he cares so much about movies.

554
00:29:50,196 --> 00:29:52,356
Speaker 3: He's going to do all his own stunts and get

555
00:29:52,436 --> 00:29:55,116
Speaker 3: us to come back to the theater just by his charisma

556
00:29:55,636 --> 00:29:58,396
Speaker 3: because he has that thing that we've lost from our

557
00:29:58,436 --> 00:30:01,636
Speaker 3: culture in all of this, you know, Marvel movie mayhem.

558
00:30:02,116 --> 00:30:05,676
Speaker 3: But the fact is Tom Cruise used to be really charming,

559
00:30:06,076 --> 00:30:07,996
Speaker 3: like it used to be in the eighties. I feel

560
00:30:08,036 --> 00:30:11,076
Speaker 3: like eighties and nineties Cruise was really charming on screen.

561
00:30:11,556 --> 00:30:15,156
Speaker 3: And now he is functionally just a Marvel movie but

562
00:30:15,356 --> 00:30:18,036
Speaker 3: in human form, like he does the Marvel thing, but

563
00:30:18,156 --> 00:30:20,396
Speaker 3: just with his own body as opposed to with VFX.

564
00:30:20,836 --> 00:30:24,236
Speaker 3: He just is kind of an impressive athlete.

565
00:30:24,596 --> 00:30:26,996
Speaker 2: Well he's but this this does tell you what we're

566
00:30:26,996 --> 00:30:30,476
Speaker 2: talking about because his part of a key part of

567
00:30:30,476 --> 00:30:34,916
Speaker 2: his persona is visible effort, yes, right, whereas what we

568
00:30:34,996 --> 00:30:37,356
Speaker 2: want pilot voice is about invisible effort.

569
00:30:37,476 --> 00:30:37,636
Speaker 3: No.

570
00:30:37,756 --> 00:30:40,916
Speaker 1: Yes, the pilot never lets on that he is.

571
00:30:41,196 --> 00:30:44,076
Speaker 2: He never says, folks, you know we got a we

572
00:30:44,156 --> 00:30:46,636
Speaker 2: got an intense next ten minutes. I'm not going to

573
00:30:46,676 --> 00:30:48,276
Speaker 2: talk to you because I'm gonna be so overwhelmed with

574
00:30:48,276 --> 00:30:51,196
Speaker 2: what I'm doing but we're gonna we're gonna try really hard,

575
00:30:51,516 --> 00:30:53,996
Speaker 2: and I'm sick. We're gonna pull this out like gotta go.

576
00:30:54,316 --> 00:30:58,756
Speaker 2: Like Tom Cruise essentially is saying, can't talk now, gotta go,

577
00:30:58,756 --> 00:31:02,076
Speaker 2: got to solve this problem, like all right, I'm talking

578
00:31:02,116 --> 00:31:05,676
Speaker 2: about it, you know, Whereas like that's the antithesis. It's

579
00:31:05,716 --> 00:31:08,116
Speaker 2: only he's allowed to do that. Everyone else has got

580
00:31:08,116 --> 00:31:08,716
Speaker 2: to do pilot.

581
00:31:08,916 --> 00:31:11,196
Speaker 3: I think that's true. And also I think this is

582
00:31:11,436 --> 00:31:15,316
Speaker 3: part of what's going on with the UH. Yeah, the UH.

583
00:31:15,396 --> 00:31:18,676
Speaker 3: One explanation for it is they get all the information

584
00:31:18,996 --> 00:31:22,036
Speaker 3: that they're reading out to the passengers, all the unnecessary

585
00:31:22,036 --> 00:31:25,676
Speaker 3: information nobody cares about, like, oh, that's like too many knots.

586
00:31:25,676 --> 00:31:27,716
Speaker 3: I wish there were fewer knots. And when the New

587
00:31:27,796 --> 00:31:31,076
Speaker 3: York City like it, they are translating it in some

588
00:31:31,116 --> 00:31:34,516
Speaker 3: cases from whatever code it's in, and they're thinking, and

589
00:31:34,556 --> 00:31:35,956
Speaker 3: they don't want to let they don't want to let

590
00:31:36,036 --> 00:31:39,036
Speaker 3: dead air happen, so they just stretch out the UH.

591
00:31:39,076 --> 00:31:41,796
Speaker 3: So the UH is when some sort of mental effort

592
00:31:41,876 --> 00:31:44,156
Speaker 3: is taking place, but it's not being disclosed.

593
00:31:44,396 --> 00:31:47,836
Speaker 2: Why you assume the AH was just a deliberate affectation

594
00:31:48,276 --> 00:31:50,276
Speaker 2: to suggest that they are in a hurry.

595
00:31:50,516 --> 00:31:52,876
Speaker 3: I think that's what it is. But it also fills

596
00:31:52,916 --> 00:31:56,276
Speaker 3: space when they are doing something else. Yeah, so it's

597
00:31:56,356 --> 00:32:00,036
Speaker 3: it's yeah, yeah, so I think there is. There's a

598
00:32:00,036 --> 00:32:01,676
Speaker 3: few things going on to the UH. I think a

599
00:32:01,676 --> 00:32:04,636
Speaker 3: lot of it is this communication accommodation theory thing. It's

600
00:32:04,716 --> 00:32:07,356
Speaker 3: like that is you're doing with your voice. I am

601
00:32:07,396 --> 00:32:09,076
Speaker 3: part of an in group, and you notice, I mean

602
00:32:10,196 --> 00:32:12,236
Speaker 3: a lot of people I asked about the pilot voice thing,

603
00:32:12,516 --> 00:32:14,876
Speaker 3: They're like, well, it's just the speakers. It's the it's

604
00:32:14,916 --> 00:32:18,316
Speaker 3: the phones and headsets and the speakers. I don't think

605
00:32:18,516 --> 00:32:21,836
Speaker 3: it is true that that thins out the voice. But

606
00:32:22,076 --> 00:32:24,716
Speaker 3: everyone you hear on a plane is speaking through the

607
00:32:24,756 --> 00:32:27,596
Speaker 3: same speaker, the same technology, and they don't all sound

608
00:32:27,596 --> 00:32:29,556
Speaker 3: the same. So I think there's a kind of like

609
00:32:29,716 --> 00:32:33,876
Speaker 3: the pilot also, only with their voice. It's like vocal apulettes,

610
00:32:33,956 --> 00:32:35,716
Speaker 3: like they've got to show with their voice that they

611
00:32:35,716 --> 00:32:39,236
Speaker 3: are not other crew members. And then it's us also,

612
00:32:40,436 --> 00:32:43,116
Speaker 3: you know, orally auditioning them of like can you can

613
00:32:43,156 --> 00:32:43,876
Speaker 3: you fly this thing?

614
00:32:46,916 --> 00:32:49,356
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a few more questions, but let's take

615
00:32:49,356 --> 00:32:51,356
Speaker 2: a short break then and then we'll be right back.

616
00:33:01,676 --> 00:33:02,796
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back.

617
00:33:03,196 --> 00:33:05,836
Speaker 3: I do. There's there's one other thing that that's interesting

618
00:33:05,836 --> 00:33:09,436
Speaker 3: to me. Are you familiar with the sterile Cockpit Rule gone.

619
00:33:10,956 --> 00:33:13,916
Speaker 3: This is a regulation that came about after a famous

620
00:33:13,956 --> 00:33:17,516
Speaker 3: crash in nineteen seventy four. This is actually this is

621
00:33:17,556 --> 00:33:20,796
Speaker 3: the plane that Stephen Colbert's father and two of his

622
00:33:20,876 --> 00:33:22,556
Speaker 3: brothers were on when it crashed.

623
00:33:22,796 --> 00:33:23,156
Speaker 1: Wow.

624
00:33:23,196 --> 00:33:27,876
Speaker 3: And when the regulators reviewed the fight records, listened to

625
00:33:27,956 --> 00:33:30,636
Speaker 3: the block box. One of the things they concluded is

626
00:33:30,636 --> 00:33:35,876
Speaker 3: that they were the crew was distracted by conversation and

627
00:33:35,916 --> 00:33:38,916
Speaker 3: specifically by small talk. I think the line is something

628
00:33:38,956 --> 00:33:42,596
Speaker 3: like on everything from used cars to politics. And this

629
00:33:42,756 --> 00:33:45,356
Speaker 3: was one of a series of accidents that had happened

630
00:33:45,356 --> 00:33:49,476
Speaker 3: in this way, and so in response to this, the

631
00:33:49,676 --> 00:33:53,036
Speaker 3: FAA created a rule or a set of rules called

632
00:33:53,076 --> 00:33:56,276
Speaker 3: that are colloquially known as the sterial Cockpit Rule, which

633
00:33:56,316 --> 00:33:58,836
Speaker 3: is just about what it takes to create a distraction

634
00:33:58,956 --> 00:34:01,596
Speaker 3: free environment in the cockpit during crucial moments of flight.

635
00:34:01,916 --> 00:34:04,596
Speaker 3: To this day, most of the violations of the sterile

636
00:34:04,636 --> 00:34:08,796
Speaker 3: Cockpit Rule are conversation. So there's like like this, this

637
00:34:08,836 --> 00:34:11,916
Speaker 3: is why citation this very senior captain was about to

638
00:34:11,996 --> 00:34:14,756
Speaker 3: leave on a scuba diving trip and talked NonStop to

639
00:34:14,796 --> 00:34:17,516
Speaker 3: his female jump seat rid upon discovering she was also

640
00:34:17,556 --> 00:34:20,636
Speaker 3: a diver. This altitude deviation could have been prevented entirely

641
00:34:20,676 --> 00:34:22,996
Speaker 3: if this particular captain had paid attention to his job

642
00:34:23,036 --> 00:34:26,236
Speaker 3: and observed some approximation of the stial cockpit below ten

643
00:34:26,276 --> 00:34:29,276
Speaker 3: thousand feet. This, I think feeds into the technique versus

644
00:34:29,356 --> 00:34:32,356
Speaker 3: precedure thing of if you are a pilot, you are

645
00:34:32,396 --> 00:34:35,076
Speaker 3: aware that even though what you say to the passengers

646
00:34:35,116 --> 00:34:38,916
Speaker 3: is not scripted and rule bound, your communication is an

647
00:34:38,956 --> 00:34:42,916
Speaker 3: incredibly high stakes thing, which I think is another factor

648
00:34:42,956 --> 00:34:45,996
Speaker 3: in why you might sort of subconsciously reach for a

649
00:34:45,996 --> 00:34:48,276
Speaker 3: cultural script about how you should sound and what you

650
00:34:48,276 --> 00:34:50,796
Speaker 3: should say. And it's partially because you know this is

651
00:34:50,796 --> 00:34:53,476
Speaker 3: your captain speaking, so much of the voice is about

652
00:34:53,516 --> 00:34:56,596
Speaker 3: projecting authority over this mini society in the air.

653
00:34:56,876 --> 00:34:59,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, and made even more pronounced by the fact that

654
00:35:00,596 --> 00:35:03,916
Speaker 2: post nine to eleven now the pilot's not allowed to

655
00:35:03,996 --> 00:35:09,036
Speaker 2: leave the cockpit. So pre nine elevee you saw the pilot.

656
00:35:09,596 --> 00:35:12,316
Speaker 2: He was often standing by the door when you came in,

657
00:35:12,556 --> 00:35:14,996
Speaker 2: and he was most definitely there when you left, and

658
00:35:15,036 --> 00:35:17,556
Speaker 2: sometimes one of them would come back. I remember they

659
00:35:17,556 --> 00:35:22,316
Speaker 2: would come back mid flight say hello, you know around

660
00:35:22,356 --> 00:35:26,116
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean so he was, but he was

661
00:35:26,156 --> 00:35:29,396
Speaker 2: still he was very much he's in he's he's also

662
00:35:29,516 --> 00:35:30,436
Speaker 2: in character.

663
00:35:30,116 --> 00:35:30,916
Speaker 1: In those moments.

664
00:35:31,476 --> 00:35:35,796
Speaker 2: You know, he's in that uniform, the and he's he's

665
00:35:35,836 --> 00:35:39,796
Speaker 2: dispensing the same kind of aw shuck's reassurance and wisdom.

666
00:35:40,316 --> 00:35:43,756
Speaker 2: But the disabodied voice is a really modern it's the

667
00:35:43,796 --> 00:35:44,596
Speaker 2: last twenty years.

668
00:35:44,836 --> 00:35:46,916
Speaker 3: That's really interesting that. I mean, that would suggest that

669
00:35:46,956 --> 00:35:49,956
Speaker 3: there's more pressure. Theoretically there would be an increase in

670
00:35:50,036 --> 00:35:52,836
Speaker 3: pilot voice. Yeah, that you in the last twenty years.

671
00:35:52,676 --> 00:35:56,236
Speaker 2: Or at least you would explain persistence of pilot voice.

672
00:35:56,116 --> 00:35:59,636
Speaker 3: Right, even as it becomes a more diverse profession, Right.

673
00:36:00,156 --> 00:36:02,876
Speaker 1: It's it persists because that's all it got, right.

674
00:36:03,556 --> 00:36:05,996
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I wonder if I mean it's it's

675
00:36:06,316 --> 00:36:09,756
Speaker 3: it's a crazy time to be flying right now, though

676
00:36:09,796 --> 00:36:11,836
Speaker 3: like the past summer was one of like a historically

677
00:36:11,916 --> 00:36:14,876
Speaker 3: bad time to fly. There's all this nutty weather, there's

678
00:36:14,876 --> 00:36:18,236
Speaker 3: all these delays. There was the New York Times investigation

679
00:36:18,316 --> 00:36:20,796
Speaker 3: that showed near misses are happening way more often than

680
00:36:20,836 --> 00:36:23,996
Speaker 3: anyone thinks, and then a Washington Post investigation like a

681
00:36:23,996 --> 00:36:28,196
Speaker 3: week later that said, thousands of pilots are claiming disabilities

682
00:36:28,196 --> 00:36:31,236
Speaker 3: to the VA that if they were disclosed to the FAA,

683
00:36:31,316 --> 00:36:34,836
Speaker 3: would make them unfit to fly. So it feels very

684
00:36:34,916 --> 00:36:39,716
Speaker 3: much like like flying is a is a house of cards.

685
00:36:39,996 --> 00:36:42,876
Speaker 3: Right now, it's it's a it's it's it's not dangerous.

686
00:36:42,916 --> 00:36:45,436
Speaker 3: It is not actually dangerous to fly. It's statistically quite

687
00:36:45,476 --> 00:36:50,076
Speaker 3: safe to fly, but it is a highly pressurized moment

688
00:36:50,116 --> 00:36:52,356
Speaker 3: in flight, which is why I think it's kind of

689
00:36:52,356 --> 00:36:54,556
Speaker 3: an interesting time to think about the pilot's voice thing,

690
00:36:54,996 --> 00:36:57,196
Speaker 3: Like there's a lot of pressure on that voice right now.

691
00:36:57,236 --> 00:37:00,276
Speaker 3: There's also a really big pilot shortage, and then there's

692
00:37:00,276 --> 00:37:04,556
Speaker 3: also the rise of AI. Simultaneously, there are companies that

693
00:37:04,596 --> 00:37:07,996
Speaker 3: are basically trying to replace pilots. And I was reading

694
00:37:07,996 --> 00:37:12,116
Speaker 3: this NASA presentation that was like that raised the question

695
00:37:12,196 --> 00:37:14,996
Speaker 3: of whether we should go automate pilots because human error

696
00:37:15,076 --> 00:37:17,836
Speaker 3: is once again the number one cause of flight accidents.

697
00:37:18,196 --> 00:37:22,796
Speaker 3: And what he concluded was pilots may cause problems, but

698
00:37:22,916 --> 00:37:26,156
Speaker 3: they also, through their human ingenuity and their ability to

699
00:37:26,236 --> 00:37:30,556
Speaker 3: basically have the right stuff, can fix problems too. And

700
00:37:30,676 --> 00:37:33,756
Speaker 3: like a lot of flying is already on autopilot So

701
00:37:34,356 --> 00:37:37,876
Speaker 3: when you really need a pilot is when something unexpected happens,

702
00:37:37,916 --> 00:37:43,476
Speaker 3: when your luck changes and something goes totally wrong, which

703
00:37:43,916 --> 00:37:46,236
Speaker 3: you know, brings me to the last thing I want

704
00:37:46,276 --> 00:37:48,956
Speaker 3: to play you today, which is have you ever listened

705
00:37:48,996 --> 00:37:51,036
Speaker 3: to the flight deck audio of the Miracle on the

706
00:37:51,116 --> 00:37:53,516
Speaker 3: Hudson of Sully communicating?

707
00:37:53,836 --> 00:37:55,076
Speaker 1: No, no, I never have.

708
00:37:55,596 --> 00:37:58,116
Speaker 3: It's not him communicating to his passengers, but it is

709
00:37:58,196 --> 00:38:01,396
Speaker 3: him communicating from the flight deck. This was the famous

710
00:38:01,436 --> 00:38:04,716
Speaker 3: emergency landing in two thousand and nine when Captain Sully

711
00:38:04,756 --> 00:38:08,476
Speaker 3: Sellenberger landed his Airbus A three twenty in the Hudson

712
00:38:08,596 --> 00:38:11,516
Speaker 3: River after some birds got caught in the engines. And

713
00:38:11,556 --> 00:38:13,796
Speaker 3: to me, it illustrates the ideal that I think the

714
00:38:13,836 --> 00:38:17,396
Speaker 3: pilot voice isn't its essence conveying not a Chuck Yeager

715
00:38:17,436 --> 00:38:21,436
Speaker 3: impression or some classic male stereotype, but a human ideal

716
00:38:21,596 --> 00:38:24,316
Speaker 3: about our ability to solve even the hardest problems under

717
00:38:24,316 --> 00:38:25,516
Speaker 3: the greatest stress.

718
00:38:27,636 --> 00:38:31,356
Speaker 6: This is a cactus fifteen thirty nine, hit first through frost.

719
00:38:31,116 --> 00:38:33,516
Speaker 2: Through us and both returning back towards Laguaria.

720
00:38:34,196 --> 00:38:36,556
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, you need to return a logbody turn left,

721
00:38:36,556 --> 00:38:41,796
Speaker 6: heading up a two to zero two to zero stopping

722
00:38:41,836 --> 00:38:45,716
Speaker 6: to Parker's got emergency returning It was a fifteen point

723
00:38:45,756 --> 00:38:48,796
Speaker 6: nine the bird strike. He lost all engines. He lost

724
00:38:48,796 --> 00:38:51,476
Speaker 6: to thrust in the engines. He's returning immediately Actus fifteen

725
00:38:51,476 --> 00:38:54,716
Speaker 6: to twenty nine Witch engines. He lost thrusts in both engines.

726
00:38:54,756 --> 00:38:59,156
Speaker 6: He said, got it back is fifteen twenty nine if

727
00:38:59,236 --> 00:39:00,716
Speaker 6: we can get it. See do you want to try

728
00:39:00,716 --> 00:39:01,956
Speaker 6: to land one on one's break?

729
00:39:02,716 --> 00:39:03,076
Speaker 7: Really?

730
00:39:03,156 --> 00:39:07,476
Speaker 6: Well, we landed the nuts I kat fifteen point nine.

731
00:39:07,436 --> 00:39:11,756
Speaker 6: It can be left traffic runway three one.

732
00:39:11,676 --> 00:39:14,956
Speaker 3: That the unable fantastic is that is like that is

733
00:39:15,076 --> 00:39:17,676
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Dave, I can't do that is the robot voice.

734
00:39:17,716 --> 00:39:19,836
Speaker 3: That's one hundred two thousand and one of the space

735
00:39:19,836 --> 00:39:21,636
Speaker 3: out to see unable.

736
00:39:22,916 --> 00:39:23,036
Speaker 7: Way.

737
00:39:23,316 --> 00:39:25,196
Speaker 3: What's the word to write anything in New Jersey?

738
00:39:25,236 --> 00:39:26,036
Speaker 4: Maybe teeter borow?

739
00:39:26,636 --> 00:39:29,796
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, off your right side. It's Peterborough Airport. Do

740
00:39:29,836 --> 00:39:35,076
Speaker 6: you want to try to go to Teeterborough? Yes, Peterborough pampire.

741
00:39:35,476 --> 00:39:38,276
Speaker 6: Actually look why the parks guy emergency and then hey, guys,

742
00:39:38,436 --> 00:39:40,756
Speaker 6: kack is fifteen twenty nine? Or did George watching Bridge

743
00:39:40,756 --> 00:39:42,076
Speaker 6: wants to go to the airport right now?

744
00:39:42,236 --> 00:39:43,356
Speaker 4: Won't show hour for checks?

745
00:39:43,356 --> 00:39:44,236
Speaker 3: If you need assistance.

746
00:39:44,716 --> 00:39:46,716
Speaker 6: Yes, sEH, it was a birch. Can I get him

747
00:39:46,716 --> 00:39:48,476
Speaker 6: in for runway one? One way one?

748
00:39:48,476 --> 00:39:49,476
Speaker 4: That's good, Kack is.

749
00:39:49,436 --> 00:39:51,276
Speaker 6: Fifteen twenty nine, turn right two way too, I.

750
00:39:51,196 --> 00:39:51,716
Speaker 3: Can land run.

751
00:39:51,916 --> 00:39:52,756
Speaker 6: I wanted Peterborough.

752
00:39:53,236 --> 00:39:53,916
Speaker 4: We can't do it.

753
00:39:54,516 --> 00:40:01,596
Speaker 6: Okay, which one way would you like at Teterborough? I'm sorry,

754
00:40:01,636 --> 00:40:02,436
Speaker 6: say again, Kats.

755
00:40:03,556 --> 00:40:04,836
Speaker 3: We're gonna be in the Hudson.

756
00:40:05,996 --> 00:40:06,596
Speaker 1: So awesome.

757
00:40:06,636 --> 00:40:09,476
Speaker 3: It is incredible, unable.

758
00:40:10,036 --> 00:40:12,916
Speaker 1: The unable. The unable is my favorite unable.

759
00:40:13,196 --> 00:40:16,756
Speaker 3: And just in case any listeners aren't familiar, the end

760
00:40:16,756 --> 00:40:19,156
Speaker 3: of all this is that Sully Lance's plane in the

761
00:40:19,236 --> 00:40:23,116
Speaker 3: Hudson with no fatalities. So it's an incredible artifact, and

762
00:40:23,636 --> 00:40:26,156
Speaker 3: I think it takes us back to where we started today.

763
00:40:27,236 --> 00:40:30,756
Speaker 3: You might get unlucky, misbook your flight, rip your suit bag,

764
00:40:30,876 --> 00:40:32,996
Speaker 3: lose your money in Vegas, get a bird in your

765
00:40:32,996 --> 00:40:37,116
Speaker 3: plane engines, But if all else fails in this crazy

766
00:40:37,396 --> 00:40:40,756
Speaker 3: over attack system we're stuck with right now, you could

767
00:40:40,796 --> 00:40:43,396
Speaker 3: still get lucky with the right person flying the plane,

768
00:40:43,876 --> 00:40:45,356
Speaker 3: no matter what their voice sounds like.

769
00:40:46,916 --> 00:40:49,276
Speaker 2: The one thing I couldn't stop thinking about Ben throughout

770
00:40:49,276 --> 00:40:52,676
Speaker 2: this whole episode is whether you have a good pilot's voice.

771
00:40:53,076 --> 00:40:56,596
Speaker 3: Well, yeah. Someone in the airport said she thought that

772
00:40:56,876 --> 00:40:58,396
Speaker 3: as ther was a pilot's out like she was like,

773
00:40:58,516 --> 00:41:02,956
Speaker 3: you sound like a pilot, and I really don't think

774
00:41:02,996 --> 00:41:04,996
Speaker 3: that I do. But do you think you have a

775
00:41:04,996 --> 00:41:05,996
Speaker 3: good pilots for us?

776
00:41:06,636 --> 00:41:12,996
Speaker 2: Do I think I do? I do too much, too

777
00:41:12,996 --> 00:41:16,876
Speaker 2: many volume shifts. Yeah, so it's not I need my

778
00:41:16,956 --> 00:41:19,356
Speaker 2: hands as well to communicate properly. There's all kinds of

779
00:41:19,396 --> 00:41:23,236
Speaker 2: reasons I think I would fail as a pilot, those

780
00:41:23,316 --> 00:41:24,316
Speaker 2: being a principle with.

781
00:41:24,836 --> 00:41:29,196
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I would chiefly fail at flying a plane.

782
00:41:29,436 --> 00:41:32,796
Speaker 2: By one, I flew a plane only once, and my

783
00:41:33,636 --> 00:41:35,836
Speaker 2: you know, in the presence of an experienced co pilot,

784
00:41:36,156 --> 00:41:40,156
Speaker 2: and my co pilot was a was a rabbi flies

785
00:41:40,156 --> 00:41:43,516
Speaker 2: on the side. And I have to say, the only

786
00:41:43,556 --> 00:41:47,636
Speaker 2: thing more reassuring than a kind of chuck yeger person

787
00:41:47,716 --> 00:41:50,316
Speaker 2: next to you is a rabbi because he comes from

788
00:41:50,316 --> 00:41:52,956
Speaker 2: a tradition of intellectual rigor, and you feel like if

789
00:41:52,956 --> 00:41:55,876
Speaker 2: there is something to something obscure that he would need

790
00:41:55,916 --> 00:41:57,396
Speaker 2: to know about the plane, you feel like he would

791
00:41:57,476 --> 00:41:58,676
Speaker 2: know that this.

792
00:41:58,756 --> 00:42:02,516
Speaker 3: Is like the Talmudic theory of flying. It's it's it's

793
00:42:02,716 --> 00:42:04,596
Speaker 3: you know, the technique, procedure thing again.

794
00:42:05,196 --> 00:42:08,756
Speaker 2: Rashi said this about you know, flying in bad conditions.

795
00:42:08,836 --> 00:42:10,996
Speaker 1: He knows that that's amazing.

796
00:42:11,756 --> 00:42:15,556
Speaker 3: All right, well, thanks for this welcome all right, Ben, oh,

797
00:42:15,676 --> 00:42:18,556
Speaker 3: I have one last bit of rob to play a

798
00:42:18,636 --> 00:42:22,316
Speaker 3: sound any any any pilot voices sign offs?

799
00:42:23,076 --> 00:42:27,436
Speaker 5: Oh well, folks, I'd like to thank you for flying

800
00:42:28,596 --> 00:42:35,476
Speaker 5: with what was it? Authentic history? Revision is History. I

801
00:42:35,476 --> 00:42:38,636
Speaker 5: will see you next Sam, Yes.

802
00:42:39,556 --> 00:42:47,196
Speaker 4: Thanks so much, folks.

803
00:42:47,236 --> 00:42:51,396
Speaker 13: This episode for Vision's History was produced by Ben and

804
00:42:51,436 --> 00:42:56,036
Speaker 13: d Af Haffrey, Jacob Smith and Taliamma, editing by Sarah Nix,

805
00:42:56,516 --> 00:43:01,516
Speaker 13: original scoring by Luis Garra, mastering by Jake Krsky, and

806
00:43:01,636 --> 00:43:05,156
Speaker 13: engineering by our very own Neil Lawrence.

807
00:43:05,796 --> 00:43:07,476
Speaker 1: Special thanks to.

808
00:43:07,516 --> 00:43:14,236
Speaker 13: Richard does Patrick expise, folks, I'm your captain, Malcolm Gravel.

809
00:43:16,076 --> 00:43:21,276
Speaker 4: M mm hmmmm