WEBVTT - TechStuff Takes Manhattan (Project) 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.520 Get in touch with technology with the text stop from host. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.279 Welcome to text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland and joining me 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.200 once again to conclude our two part series on the 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.720 Manhattan Project has been the books back then. Hey, thanks 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.960 for happy me back a forward. I'm glad that this 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.920 ended up being a two parter because there was there's 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.879 so much stuff that we we kind of have to 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.840 establish before we even really get into the nitty gritty 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:41.440 of the Manhattan Project. So so I'd like to say 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:45.559 all listeners, if you have not heard part one of 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.960 this product, of this podcast or this series, then I 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.000 implore you. Maybe maybe that's too strong a word. I 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:54.800 don't know. No, I think implore is a good word, 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.080 because otherwise there's gonna be a lot of player It's 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:04.200 gonna be like watching season four Lost. It'll be like 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.800 it'll be like if you if you've heard, hey, that 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:08.959 Game of Thrones show is supposed to be really good, 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:11.520 let me just watch this one episode. You won't know 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:13.920 who any of the people are or why they're doing 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:17.760 what they're doing. Uh So, here's a quick previously on 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.800 tech stuff. We ended up covering the physics that led 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:26.000 up to the discovery of fission. We also covered the 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:30.240 political landscape, the fact that World War two was well, 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.119 first it was building, you know, the world was building 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.040 up to World War two, and then World War two 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:40.160 breaks out, and how that ended up creating a fast 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:45.800 track in the United States for research into fission, specifically 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:51.160 in the weaponization of fission, using using atomic science to 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.200 create a weapon, because there was the very real threat 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:58.920 that the Nazis we're working on their own program for 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.160 such a thing, and even before the United States was 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:06.120 pulled into the war, UH, there was this this need. 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:12.120 Einstein himself had expressed concern. And we also talked about 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.040 sort of the the players that we're all doing various 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:19.880 lines of research into the separate separation of of ions 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:22.320 of uranium, because, as it turns out, you two thirty 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.680 five is really what you want if you're trying to 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:30.000 achieve nuclear fission, especially a sustainable chain reaction, but you 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.880 two thirty eight is overwhelmingly the more abundant version of 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.520 uranium that's found in nature, and separating the two is 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.160 not an easy task. So we have multiple areas of 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.520 research looking into ways to do that and also a 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:48.080 need to find a way to weaponize it. We concluded 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.800 Part one. This is just to set us up apart 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:56.320 to we concluded part one talking about how there was 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.000 the Army Corps of Engineers have become involved, and there 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.160 is a fellow named James C. Marshall who was initially 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:08.120 in charge. James C. Marshall's headquarters were located in Manhattan 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.480 and specifically was the Manhattan Energy District. Was the code 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:18.040 name for it, and the secret project, super secret project 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:22.680 to develop atomic weapons became known as the Manhattan Project, 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.440 even after those headquarters were no longer in Manhattan. Yeah, 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.400 you know, if you find a name that works, you stick, 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.280 you stick with the name. And it's one of those 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.679 it's one of those common misconceptions because as as we've 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:39.480 mentioned on the previous episode, this uh Manhattan Project did 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.520 not occur, not only did not occur in just Manhattan 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:47.440 or just in Mexico, but it occurred in areas across 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.880 the across the US. There's some really cool stuff that's 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:55.040 going to happen. There are towns that only exist because 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.760 of the Manhattan Project. They would not have otherwise grown 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.800 up where they are. And to really get into this, 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.240 at this stage, the very early days of the Manhattan 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:11.200 Project as an official thing. There were some tensions that 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:14.840 were already building up between the scientific community, the various 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:18.760 research centers that were looking into this, and the army 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.400 that was more or less kind of facilitating it, you know, 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.719 sort of in charge. But also mainly their purpose was 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:27.840 to make sure that the scientists were going to have 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.280 the facilities and resources that they would need in order 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.200 to do what they needed to do, and also the 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.920 ones to crack the whip on the timeline. Yeah. Well, 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.760 as it turns out, the army moves a certain pace 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:45.240 that the scientists didn't find particularly helpful. That you know, 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:49.560 the essentially bureaucracy got in the way things. Things slowed down, 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.320 and the scientists were not entirely happy with the way 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:57.080 Marshall was running things. So in September nineteen forty two, 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:04.520 the Army decides to replace Mark Shoal with Colonel Leslie R. Groves, who, after, 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:06.919 you know, six days after becoming the head of the 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:11.760 Manhattan Project, was promoted to brigadier general. So calling him 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:15.680 colonel Groves is misleading since he was almost immediately a 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:19.640 brigadier general. Gross was instrumental in bringing the Pentagon or 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.440 building the Pentagon. He was he was one of the 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.120 people very much in charge of that project. And he 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.360 also had a background as an engineer, so he understood 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.360 the needs of building facilities, you know what, what actually 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:36.359 is required to do this, and he knew how to 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:41.520 work on this in a very uh aggressive timeline. I 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:42.960 guess it is the best way to put it. So 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.880 Groves moves in. And then there were all these different 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:52.840 sites that the scientists had identified as being potentially ideal 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.320 for the Manhattan Project, and Marshall had been very slowly 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.440 investigating them. Groves, on the other hand, said all right, 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.160 let's do it to get them, let's get her done. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.920 Uh So Groves relok at the headquarters from Manhattan to 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:07.960 d C. But of course it was already known as 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:09.880 the Manhattan Project. It was not going to be called 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.200 the d C Project. It got stuck that way, and 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:18.600 he made Colonel Kenneth D. Nichols, who was James Marshall's deputy, 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.640 into his chief aid on the project. Marshall himself became 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:27.080 a district engineer within the program, and that's where he 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.120 really excelled within the Manhattan Project because his his talents 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:35.159 were considerable. It's just they were better suited for a different, 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:40.640 h different job than overseeing the entire project. I see 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:42.680 what you're saying. Yeah, because, as it turns out, you know, 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.400 you want someone who's aggressive so that things can get started, 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:50.080 but you also want people who observe the need for 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:55.680 caution when you're handling nuclear materials. It's important. Marshall was 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.520 not fired. No, he was just simply reassigned. It was 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.400 one of those things where the need for this project 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.560 was clear, but how to organize it was something that 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.840 was kind of up in the air for a little bit. 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.320 Is the first time anybody was doing something like this 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:19.280 as far as exactly, you know, the ancient Egyptians. No. Uh, 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.200 so at the same time that this is going on, 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.320 Vanavar Bush. If you don't know who that is, you 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.280 need to listen to our last episode. Yeah, I think 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.800 that's just gonna get more difficult from this point forward. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.480 Uh set up the Military Policy Committee, which would be 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.680 made up of a representative from the Army, a representative 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.240 from the Navy, and one from the Office of Scientific 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:42.440 Research and Development. If you recall, Bush himself was the 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.800 head of the Office of Scientific Research and Development, but 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.280 was constantly moving up because his considerable talents in also 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.760 getting things done. Bush I think was probably one of 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:58.720 the best at figuring out who would be ideal to 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.600 run certain parts of this project. Like he was really 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.080 good at matching the people with the parts of the 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:10.920 project that needed them. Um very visionary kind of guy. 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:15.560 Also very very effective at being a liaison between the 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:21.040 big the big machine and then these brilliant scientists. Uh yeah. 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.160 He seemed to know how to handle people no matter 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.560 what background they came from, and those folks are invaluable. 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.000 I mean, you can find people who are really smart 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:30.760 and really talented, but if they don't know how to 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.200 how to interact with other people, they don't go very far. Bush, however, 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.120 was not one of those guys. Um and Groves himself 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.120 made it clear that the pursuit of multiple lines of 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:45.640 research for that isotopes separation, that was something that could 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.520 not go on forever. That really what needed to happen 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:54.560 was the project needed to settle on the you know, one, 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.400 one line or maybe two lines of inquiry to really 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.959 concentrate their effort. Even if it turned out those were 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.600 not the most uh efficient, it would mean that they 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:09.640 could at least concentrate their their you know, their workforce 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.880 because at the time these scientists have their pet projects, 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:18.280 which some of them have, even if they some of 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.360 them already kind of indicate that this will be enormously 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:26.560 expensive unless there's some breakthrough. And and you had groups 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:32.000 that had very different views on the efficacy of various methodologies. 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.280 For example, the British loved the idea of gaseous diffusion 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:40.240 for isotope separation. Meanwhile, you have Oppenheimer who was demonstrating 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:46.240 that the electromagnetic version of isotope separation could be incredibly effective. 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.720 It's just that he was working on a smaller scale, right, 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.000 but the scale that he was working on, if he 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.960 could scale up, he was pretty sure this methodology would 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:01.160 be incredibly fruitful. So he was arguing quite strongly for that. 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.080 So you had all these different camps coming in, and 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.760 then you had other versions as well. There were just 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.800 two of them, and that's what Grows was saying, Okay, guys, really, 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:10.679 by the end of this year, by the end of 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.080 let's really settle on a specific one so that we 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.959 can actually make a weapon that will make a difference 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.760 in this war. Because at the rate we're going, by 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.760 the time we create a weapon, peace will have broken 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.839 out and then we'll just feel like jackasses, or it 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.760 would be a situation where if we don't get there, 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.240 someone is going to because the paranoid at that time 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.200 was so very high. Right Even first of all, there 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.040 was not really any There was no way of knowing 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.440 what was going on in the Nazi camps, so it 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.880 could very well be that Nazi scientists were much closer there. 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.239 That was legitimate fear. But beyond that, there were already 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.280 tensions between the United States and other nations, specifically the 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.600 Soviet Union, and so there was also a real fear 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.480 that Soviet Union could be investigating this as well. And 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.080 so even if the weapon weren't used in World War Two, 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:08.680 it would be really important for the United States interests 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.080 for there to be such a weapon period. In fact, 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:13.319 that's going to play apart when we get to the 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:20.320 point of actually deploying said weapon. But anyway, November uh 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:24.200 there was one of the methods of isotope separation that 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.559 just did not pan out, and that was using centricus centrifuges. 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:34.040 And it's because the centrifuge machines were not dependable. They 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.840 would break down too frequently, so it wasn't that the 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.840 methodology was bad, it was that the machinery itself was 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:44.520 not dependable. Yeah. So um, I mean if you remember 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.000 the stucks Net story, you know those were centrifuges that 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.200 were set to spend at the wrong speed which ended 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:58.200 up causing uh, some pretty big issues. Yeah. So you know, 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.000 it's it's something that we've known about for since the 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.920 nineteen forties, is that if you don't get the machinery 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.720 to work correctly, then you're not going to be producing 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:12.400 the you two thirty five that you need. So electromagnetic 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.040 separation was the big winner so far with you to 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.360 thirty five. Guess diffusion was promising enough to still be 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.840 in the running for consideration, and the Brits. The Brits 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:26.439 were still very much behind that. Plutonium, which was a 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.640 completely separate line of inquiry. Remember most of this was 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:34.400 focused on uranium. Plutonium was ended up getting a big 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.520 boost as well. The Metallurgical Laboratory in Chicago, which had 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:42.240 just recently brought Enrico Fermi on. He had been working 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.920 at Columbia and he had moved over to the Metallurgical 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:50.360 Laboratory in Chicago. They produced a small amount of pure plutonium. 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:55.080 They had uranium piles and plutonium was a byproduct of 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.800 the process they were using, and so they were saying, well, 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:04.120 plutonium is a better Uh. It's it's more apt to 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.640 undergo fission than you is. The problem is making enough 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:13.200 plutonium for that to be effective. So it was promising. 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.640 But when we're talking small amount of pure plutonium, it's microscopic, 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.920 that's how small. So not useful for any sort of 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.760 practical Yeah. Nothing, nothing at all except for the fact 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.800 that saying we've proven that it works, so so if 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:29.960 we can, if we can scale this up, then it 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.400 could be a promising means of generating plutonium. And it 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.880 was Glenn Seaboards team. If you don't know who Seaboard is, 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.600 you need to listen to the last episode. Uh. Figured 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.720 out how to separate the plutonium from a radiated uranium. Uh. 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.160 And then you had the theoretical physicists. So these are 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.559 the guys who you know, You had the the experimental 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:52.800 ones who are actually making theory, you know, putting theory 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.320 too to the test. But the theoretical physicists, who are 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.960 led by Oppenheimer, we're refining their calculations to figure out 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.560 exactly how much fission norble material would be needed to 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.520 create a working bomb. Now, the Brits had come forward 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:13.280 and said probably between five to ten um After there 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.640 after they work with Oppenheimer and the other theorists, they said, yeah, 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:21.280 we think that might be an underestimation. Yeah, you might 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.880 need twice as much. By the way, they would change 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.680 this again later on, and each time the goalposts will 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.160 moved further outlet we need to we need we're going 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.720 to need more material based on our calculations to make 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:40.240 a truly UH reactive system where there is a sustainable 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:45.920 chain reaction. So Oppenheimer was recommending research into a fusion bomb, 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.880 not just fission. UH. Fusion bomb would actually be triggered 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.840 by initially a fission reaction, So you'd have to have 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:58.440 fissionable material first, and then you would the energy from 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:03.200 that That interact sin would provide the necessary energy to 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.800 facilitate a fusion reaction, which could be much more powerful. 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.640 This would be the super bomb. Hydrogen bomb was one 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:12.720 of those things that was bandied about quite a bit 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.560 in these early days. But frankly, everyone's like, let's let's 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.840 crack fission first. Finish your breakfast. Yeah, exactly, but but 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:26.040 s one, the Office of Science and Research authorize some 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:30.040 research into light materials, deuterium being the main one to 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.880 look into the possibility of a fusion bomb, so they 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.920 didn't want to discount it or dismiss it. But they 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.720 also didn't want to put all the eggs in the 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.640 fusion basket. Right. Well, it's you know, if you consider 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.280 just from what what you outlined earlier, it's at it's 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:51.480 complicating a process that we have yet to successfully do, 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:57.960 you know, or complete. Right, And so then Groves decides, Okay, 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.400 since peaches out, that's not gonna work. It's it's it 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.960 will take us too long to refine the process for 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:08.200 it to be practical. Let's focus right now on the 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:13.280 pile research that's what generates plutonium, the electromagnetic research, and 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:17.480 the gases diffusion research, and we're gonna skip the pilot 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:21.440 plant stage go straight to full scale production. In other words, 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.680 normally you would create a slightly larger pilot plant to 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.880 make certain that the things you had tested in the 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:33.480 laboratory still work at the plant stage. But if they 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.400 don't work, then you can tweak things. Because the pilot 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:40.360 plant isn't so large or so the infrastructure is not 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.080 so rigid that you can't shift things around. So the 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.200 idea being that you find the ideal operating conditions at 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:51.400 the pilot plant stage, then you scale up to full scale. 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.120 They're skipping pilot plant and saying we don't have time 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:59.240 for it, which is a dangerous Yeah, literally and figuratively right, 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:04.080 because figuratively you could say, well, we built this facility 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.919 based upon our best estimation and it turns out that 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.000 was off, and now we're stuck with it and we 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.280 have to use an unideal situation to do whatever it 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.480 is we need to do. Literally, you're dealing with radioactive 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.160 material and if it gets out of control, that would 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:27.040 be devastating. December second, nineteen forty two, Enrico Fermi and 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.800 his team demonstrate in front of a group of dignitaries 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.119 a nuclear chain reaction which lasted for twenty eight minutes 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:38.280 until firm me shut it down. So that was this 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.160 is where we get one of the most famous exchanges 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:45.440 from the Manhattan Project, and it was when Compton who 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:51.800 called Conant. Those names will be familiar, Yeah, So Compton 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.320 called Conan and they had the following exchange, up, who 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:56.359 do you want to be Do you want to be 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.399 Compton or Conan? I will you know what, I'll be 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:06.119 comfort cool? I go ahead, m ring ring, Hello, the 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.000 Italian navigator has landed in the New World. How were 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:14.399 the natives very friendly? And that was that was the 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:19.080 way of describing Not only was the the experiment of success, 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.600 but it it impressed the dignitaries who were there to 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.920 see it. So that was that was there coded some 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:31.080 semi coded, like improvised way of of saying what had 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:35.280 happened without you know, squeezing or or or or or 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:40.040 dropping information that might be you know, pretty sensitive over 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.880 a telephone line. No, you did. You did a bang 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.560 up job with these with these notes and UH when 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.439 I saw when I first saw this, it made me 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.840 want to go into a rabbit hole of finding all 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:56.200 of the recorded UH code word conversations of this time 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.760 because it must sound so bizarre because people are saying 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.240 it with gravity, but they're saying stuff like um, they're 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:07.199 saying stuff like the rabbit has left the hutch. The 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.240 rabbit has left the hutch. And then the person on 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:13.639 the other line is like green and someone goes and 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.640 hangs up, you know right, and you're like, does there 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.840 any record of what this actually meant. I mean, the 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:25.000 probably the most famous quote out of all of the 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.160 Manhattan Project, I would argue, comes from Oppenheimer absolutely and 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:35.240 spawned so many, um, so many things ranging from uh 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:41.000 out and out conspiracy theories to uh just fascinating biographies 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.399 to to spoil it because I mean, I'll forget about 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:46.119 time we get around for the part where the bomb 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.000 is being tested. Oppenheimer's famous quote, and you've probably heard 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:53.480 it before as I am become deaf, the destroyer of worlds. Yeah, 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.479 and he um. He has a quotation where he explains 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.760 that because that's some ominous stuff, that's like a nick 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.159 even the bad Seed songs. Sure it, sure is. It 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.680 were there with red right hand, if I were, if 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.280 I were just hanging out, if you and I were 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.879 hanging out when when the bomb dropped and someone said 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.800 that they would immediately become a dangerous person, I would 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.560 seriously wonder like, should we have you around? Yeah, for 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.040 a moment I thought you were going to say, Like 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:20.439 if we were out and I just turned to you 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.879 and said, hey, Jonathan, I am become death of the 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:26.359 straight of worlds, I would take that as something to 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.639 really mull over and possibly start to look for the 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.280 nearest exit, especially if we were if we were just 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.880 going down the street to a food truck or something. Right, Yeah, 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.600 we're just heading out to the one over in the 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:41.800 parking lot. Yeah, talking about tuoting your own horn. But 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:43.960 there is a context of this, so yeah, and we 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.160 can shut that. We'll get there a little bit later. 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:52.320 In December two, the US government allocated half a billion dollars, 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.639 which would eventually grow to more than two billion dollars 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:01.600 dollars to fund further development. By the way, those costs, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.600 that's just the official numbers. There could be tons and 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:09.000 tons that are tied into it in one way or another. Uh. 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.720 And and not to mention funds that didn't come directly 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.240 from the United States government, right, right, And that's that's 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.880 a huge part of this. The truth of the matter 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.879 is that we probably will never know for sure, but 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.480 we do know that two billion, although it may be 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.920 the sticker price was not, was not the the entirety 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:31.000 of it. Yeah. And in fact, when we say we 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:35.280 may never know, no one may might know. Right. It's 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:39.760 it's it's such a huge undertaking that it's very unlikely 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:44.360 there's a document anywhere that has the full tally. It's 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.520 just it's it's just too big. It's too big. Yeah, 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.000 So it's not it's not like a conspiracy as much 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:55.320 as it is a tremendously difficult calculation. Exactly, I've got 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.920 the I've got the inflation number too. There, what's that? 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:03.560 And so we said two billion in nineteen Okay, so 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:07.280 let's let just just do some math here. Let me 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:13.560 get my advocates out two billion. Oh, you have to 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:18.760 use smaller values. I was on a calculator. You have 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:20.879 to smaller values. So just a lot of money will 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:25.400 leave it. Okay, yes, a significant amount of cash. So 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.960 the money went on to establish full scale gaseous diffusion plants, 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:36.280 full scale plutonium plants, and smaller electro magnetic plants, power plants, 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:40.800 you know, like the manufacturing facilities, not not like biological plants. 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:44.359 That doesn't come along until much later. Yes, uh, and 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:47.160 vanavar Bush said the earliest a bomb could be expected 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:50.040 would be early nineteen forty five, and he was actually 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:53.119 trying to be a little conservative because the earlier reports 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:56.919 had suggested that if things worked out, there might be 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:00.840 a weapon ready as early as nineteen forty four. But 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:03.919 Bush was thinking, you know, I'm gonna pad that out 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:05.560 a little bit. And as it turns out, even that 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:12.359 was optimistic. Early optimistic. Plutonium was looking promising, but people 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:17.080 were worried that the the radioactive pile approach, which is 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.400 what for ME was using, wasn't going to be scalable. 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:22.760 That they'd be able to produce plutonium, but it would 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:24.600 be at such small amounts that it would take way 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:26.719 too long to have enough for it to be a weapon, 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:29.520 especially considering that they want to build more than one 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:33.040 because they have to test it and they're still not 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:37.959 absolutely sure how much they need per weapon. Right, and Uh, 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:42.400 the demonstrations for ME had shown revealed that there could 0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:45.240 be a chain reaction, but the reaction was at too 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:48.080 slow a rate for it to be used potentially as 0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:50.440 a weapon. Uh. The idea being that, yeah, you could 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:52.879 do this to to generate energy, like it could be 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:56.280 a nuclear power plant. The chain reaction would allow you 0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:59.679 to to harness in that respect, but it wouldn't be 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:05.480 so fast to create an explosive event, so it would 0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:09.520 not be useful as a weapon. Um. However, more research 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:13.400 would go into that. Also forms approach was at such 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:17.200 a slow rate of of energy release that they did 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:21.720 not need any sort of cooling system. So, um, there 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:25.639 was no need for the very advanced cooling systems that 0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:28.520 you will find in nuclear power plants these days, which 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:30.920 was kind of interesting to me. And there were three 0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:35.199 different competing designs for nuclear piles. One was water a 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:37.760 water cooled model which was developed by Gail Young and 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:42.119 Eugene Wigner. One was a liquid metal cooled approach headed 0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:45.479 by our good friend Leo listened to the last, and 0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:48.640 the last was a helium cooled pile, which was headed 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:52.879 by Thomas V. Moore who was an engineer. Yeah, I 0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:56.000 had a great nickname. It is called may West, um 0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.720 presumably because the design included spherical segments in the outer 0:24:59.760 --> 0:25:02.520